| 1 | [[index]] |
| 2 | * ''YMMV/AGameOfThrones'' |
| 3 | * ''YMMV/AClashOfKings'' |
| 4 | * ''YMMV/AStormOfSwords'' |
| 5 | * ''YMMV/AFeastForCrows'' |
| 6 | * ''YMMV/ADanceWithDragons'' |
| 7 | * ''YMMV/TalesOfDunkAndEgg'' |
| 8 | * ''YMMV/ArchmaesterGyldaynsHistories'' |
| 9 | * ''YMMV/TheWorldOfIceAndFire'' |
| 10 | * ''YMMV/FireAndBlood'' |
| 11 | [[/index]] |
| 12 | |
| 13 | !!In General |
| 14 | * AdaptationDisplacement: To mainstream audiences, the [[Series/GameOfThrones TV show]] based on the books is far better-known than the books themselves. And the title ''Game of Thrones'' has far more name recognition than ''A Song of Ice and Fire''. That being said, there's an attempt at giving the latter title more recognition (or at least more love) with its use as a prophecy plot point in ''Series/HouseOfTheDragon''. |
| 15 | * AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Due to the complexity of the series' characters, this [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/ASongOfIceAndFire has its own page]]. |
| 16 | * AngstAversion: Many are hesitant to read the novels for the first time, because of the sheer hell the author puts the protagonist Stark family (among others) through. |
| 17 | * AntiClimaxBoss: Several times. Although it should be noted that in most cases, it is intentional on the part of the author. |
| 18 | ** [[spoiler:Viserys seems to be set up as a major villain, but he dies halfway through the first book, before he or any of his supporters set foot in Westeros.]] |
| 19 | ** [[spoiler: Khal Drogo is set up to be a major threat to all of Westeros, but after a wound turns festering because he ignored the advice of the most qualified healer for miles around, a blood mage who has good reason to hate him turns him catatonic, possibly by accident.]] |
| 20 | ** [[spoiler:Renly plans on stealing the throne from Stannis and has put together the largest army in Westeros, but he's assassinated on the night before the battle without putting up a fight. Stannis takes the bulk of his forces into his own campaign against the Lannisters.]] |
| 21 | ** [[spoiler:Balon Greyjoy declares himself King of the Iron Islands and has set up a major campaign to raid the North, but dies off-page before he ever does anything. His brothers, however, take up the cause.]] |
| 22 | ** The benefactor of the Catspaw is the [[{{DrivingQuestion}} mystery that drives a substantial portion of the first book]], yet their identity is never given. Was it one of the usual suspects like Petyr or Varys? The Others? Bran from the future? A character nobody suspected? [[spoiler: It's revealed almost offhandedly it was Joffrey about two books after everyone stopped caring about it. Including, it seems, the characters, since it has absolutely no effect on the plot at all.]] |
| 23 | ** [[spoiler:Tywin, as head of the Lannisters and chief adversary for many of the other characters, but his death has nothing to do with his domination of the continent. His abuse of his son Tyrion finally catches up to him and he dies an ignominious death on a privy.]] |
| 24 | ** [[spoiler: Quentyn Martell is introduced as an important person in the fifth book. He leaves for Meereen with the aim of marrying Daenerys and joining their armies. Daenerys rejects him without hesitation, and Quentyn then decides to steal one of the dragons. It ends with him dead in horrible circumstances.]] |
| 25 | * {{Anvilicious}}: Numerous characters come down hard on romanticized songs and histories, which turn complicated and often downright ugly situations into simple and idealized stories with clear moral lessons of dubious authenticity. Characters who take these stories too seriously end up suffering terribly for it. On top of all that, most of the singers and minstrels who spread these tales are themselves portrayed as sleazy and unsavory. Singers are also on the receiving end of {{Cruel And Unusual Death}}s and in the case of the Blue Bard, ColdBloodedTorture. |
| 26 | * ArcFatigue: |
| 27 | ** Remember how there's supposed to a ZombieApocalypse of some kind with the coming of [[GreaterScopeVillain the Others]]? Five books into a seven book series and so far they haven't even reached the Wall. And given the large gap between books... |
| 28 | ** Daenerys's prolonged arc in Essos. While it teaches her many useful lessons about effective rulership and politics, it has many readers tearing their hair out waiting for the ''dragon battles already!!'' |
| 29 | ** Say, who is Jon's mother, anyway? And what exactly went down at the Tower of Joy? [[SarcasmMode Are those two things perhaps related in some way?]] |
| 30 | * ArchivePanic: Not so much that there are too many books to read, but keeping up with the lore of the series, the history of the Houses, who is related to who and how, etc. can be difficult to keep up with. Thankfully, many answers can be found on the wiki. |
| 31 | * AudienceColoringAdaptation: The popular HBO adaptation has led to some reprints being sold as the ''Game of Thrones series'' and not ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' though Martin has taken some steps to correct and redress that, for instance commissioning a TruerToTheText [[Literature/TheWorldOfIceAndFire illustration]] of the book-version of the Iron Throne to counter the HBO take which is much smaller and simpler. It also became less of an issue once it became widely known that the show after the first four seasons became a CompressedAdaptation and stopped faithfully adapting Books 4 and 5 to barrel through on its own finish. |
| 32 | * BadassDecay: |
| 33 | ** Daenerys spends the first three books building herself into an active conqueror. However, she spends most of ''A Dance With Dragons'' comparatively inactive and out of her depth. Her army is getting whittled away by rebels, her dragons are locked away, she's forced into a sham marriage and she's distracted by lust for Daario. |
| 34 | ** Theon Greyjoy, to the point where it's easy to forget he was ever a badass. It's worth noting that he was a skilled archer, fought beside Robb Stark and [[spoiler:conquered Winterfell with a handful of men. However, this is partially justified, given that he is horrifically mutilated by Ramsay Snow.]] |
| 35 | * BaseBreakingCharacter: |
| 36 | ** Sansa Stark. At the beginning of the series, she was viewed as TheScrappy thanks to her immaturity, being a [[{{BigBrotherBully}} Big Sister Bully]] towards Arya and [[{{HorribleJudgeOfCharacter}} twice siding with Joffrey and Cersei]] over her family. [[note]] First leading to Lady and Mycah's deaths, and secondly contributing to the Stark household's arrest [[/note]] While it's agreed she gets ''a lot'' better, fans are divided on whether she's evolved into a fascinating POV character and SilkHidingSteel political operator, or is still too passive, slow to learn and not as interesting as her siblings. |
| 37 | ** Catelyn Stark. Some fans finds her to be unsympathetic due to several of her rash decisions, such as arresting Tyrion and freeing Jaime. Others find that her MamaBear motivations make her more sympathetic or simply don't see her flaws as an impediment to their enjoyment of her character. |
| 38 | ** Daenerys Targaryen is a polarizing character, especially by ''Dance with Dragons''. While many fans enjoy her chapters and her character, others complain about her PlotArmor and find her teenage infatuation with Daario Naaharis to be a RomanticPlotTumor. |
| 39 | ** Jorah Mormont is a tragic and noble character who deserves redemption for the mistakes he made, or a complete selfish jerk, whose love for Daenerys is very creepy, and who deserves all the misfortunes that happened in his life. |
| 40 | ** Cersei Lannister, because her status as a BigBadWannabe is really divisive among fans—is it a good depiction, or is her utter political incompetence cartoonish? Many fans wish that we'd gotten a look into her mind at an earlier point (as when she gets a SympatheticPOV, she's started JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope), and that she were a bit more competent (or at least allowed a chance to gain legitimate victories); many non-fans wish the same on the competence front, if only because reading about her complete and utter stupidity gets grating after a point and ADWD is the ''only'' book were she doesn't appear prominently (unlike some other divisive characters). There are many perspectives in-between regarding this woman, and few people can agree on the best possible interpretation of her character—and ''that's'' after you've decided whether she should be pitied, hated, admired, etc. |
| 41 | ** Tyrion Lannister becomes this in ''A Dance with Dragons''. That's because Tyrion becomes a much darker character in this book, having crossed the DespairEventHorizon since we last saw him. Among his worst actions in the book, Tyrion rapes a prostitute, constantly thinks about raping and killing his sister, and [[spoiler:does not hesitate to condemn thousands of innocent (and guilty) lives when he convinces Aegon to leave for Westeros without Daenerys.]] Although Tyrion has his PetTheDog moments thanks to his interactions with Penny and Jorah Mormont, he also has his KickTheDog moments with both characters. While some fans consider this great character development, others are not pleased and have started to dislike Tyrion. |
| 42 | ** Darkstar. Though he's [[TheScrappy disliked]] by a lot of the fandom for being an [[WordOfGod admitted attempt]] to recapture the popularity of Oberyn Martell, some readers enjoy the air of mystery surrounding him and his somewhat [[NarmCharm hilarious]] charisma. |
| 43 | ** Quentyn Martell. While some readers find him interesting and his story arc as a great deconstruction of a hero's journey, others find him boring and overly idealistic, and thus find his story arc as ShootTheShaggyDog and a complete waste of time. |
| 44 | ** Littlefinger: is he a genuinely engaging character with an interesting theme about class, ala ''Literature/TheGreatGatsby''? Or are his plans contrived and convoluted, and rely too much on people trusting him when they really shouldn't? Your answer to this will depend on how much you're willing to buy the "people underestimate him because he's lowborn" excuse—which is, of course, not how things worked in real medieval courts. |
| 45 | ** You'll either find Sandor a JerkassWoobie and a complex man trying his best to break out of his own self-loathing and do good, or a pathetic self-pitying abuser who blames all his problems on everybody else—there's little middle ground. |
| 46 | * BrokenBase: |
| 47 | ** The fanbase was actually a pretty contented one up until the publication of ''A Feast For Crows''. With ''A Dance With Dragons'' finally out, the new broken base seems to divide between fans who love it and consider it a return to form, and those who hate it and consider it AFFC 2.0. And then there are those who loved AFFC and don't consider the idea of AFFC 2.0 to be a bad thing. The split in the fanbase seems to be a result of the increased focus on world building in AFFC and ADWD. Westeros and Essos are presented in more detail than ever before, but parts of the fanbase consider this to have occurred at the expense of plot. |
| 48 | ** HBO's ''Series/GameOfThrones'' has also caused this with fans of the books, mostly due to its deviations from the source material (especially in later seasons). Some fans consider many of the TV characters and elements to be the definitive versions and use elements from it in their interpretation and visualization of ''ASOIAF'', while others deliberately distance their vision of ''ASOIAF'' from ''Game of Thrones'' and are happy enough to imagine the characters and settings purely as described on the page. |
| 49 | ** The Catspaw Mystery and subsequent resolution has split the fandom in three: the first group who maintain it's a good resolution and fits with the {{Deconstruction}} aspects of the series; a second who maintain that the given solution [[EpilepticTrees isn't actually correct]] and that the ''real'' culprit will be revealed in later books; and a third who think it's just flat-out terrible and relies on a OutOfCharacterMoment and a ContrivedCoincidence to work. |
| 50 | * CantUnhearIt: Thanks to the [[Series/GameOfThrones show]], it's hard to choose a character whose actor's voice is ''not'' the character's. Some of the standouts are Creator/PeterDinklage as Tyrion, Creator/EmiliaClarke as Daenerys, Creator/SeanBean as Ned, Creator/MaisieWilliams as Arya, Creator/CharlesDance as Tywin, and Creator/LenaHeadey as Cersei. Similarly, most people who got into the books through the show visualize the characters as their live-action incarnations, due to the fact that the books give way to many different (official) interpretations of their canon designs (''including'' the TV designs, which are used on the covers and slipcases of later printings), despite the book characters having some described traits that diverge from their TV incarnations. Some depictions of the ''ASOIAF'' canon characters post-2011 use elements of the show's designs, occasionally to the point of InkSuitActor, similar to [[Literature/HarryPotter other]] [[Literature/TheLordOfTheRings book series]] that undergo a NewbieBoom via AdaptationDisplacement. |
| 51 | * CommonKnowledge: It's widely known across the internet and it was joked about in films such as ''Film/LoganLucky'' that Creator/GeorgeRRMartin in general, and ASOIAF in particular takes too long to publish because the author writes too slowly. This is because of the lengthy ScheduleSlip between Books 3-4, Books 4-5, and Books 5-6 (which is still TBD twelve years and counting). |
| 52 | ** As [[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2f59pv/no_spoilers_grrm_is_a_faster_writer_than_jk/ some commentators]] [[http://designtaxi.com/news/368559/Infographic-The-Word-Counts-Of-Harry-Potter-Novels-Other-Famous-Books/faq/ noted]], that in terms of word count, ASOIAF is much bigger than other series, making the challenges of writing it and completing it quite different from other series. For point of comparison, Creator/JKRowling conceived and completed ''Literature/HarryPotter'' in about the same time Martin conceived the series. But the total word count of the complete ''Harry Potter'' series (1990-2007), is around 1,084,170 words, averaging 63,774 words per year. However, by the time GRRM published ''Literature/ADanceWithDragons'' (Book 5 in a projected seven-book series), Martin had hit 1,770,000 words, averaging 88,500 words per year. This is only counting the main series and not including ''Literature/TalesOfDunkAndEgg, Literature/ArchmaesterGyldaynsHistories, Literature/TheWorldOfIceAndFire'', the four episodes of ''Series/GameOfThrones'' whose screenplays he wrote, his other work as editor and contributor to ''Literature/WildCards'' and the many other promotional interviews he has done since the greater demand that came with his greater fame and profile on account of the series (which ''he'' did admit slowed down the progress of the sixth book, which will also likely be a {{Doorstopper}} of the same nature as Book 5). |
| 53 | ** Creator/JohnScalzi also defended Martin by [[https://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/07/17/a-small-observation-regarding-words-and-releases/ pointing this out]]: |
| 54 | ---> '''John Scalzi''': Shorter version: During those years the unsocialized were snarling at Martin for being lazy or procrastinating or indolent or whatever, he wrote about as many words for novels as I had. By this superficial but easy-to-quantify metric, on the novel front he was as productive as I was, and most people seem to agree that I’ve been pretty productive these last six years. I just spread my words around five novels while he poured all of his into one. |
| 55 | ** It's "common knowledge" that every likeable and popular main character dies just as soon as you get attached to them. In fact only one major popular protagonist, ([[spoiler:Eddard "Ned" Stark]]), died in a surprising way, and that was early on as a DecoyProtagonist; of the other main characters who are often brought up, [[spoiler:Catelyn Stark]] is a BaseBreakingCharacter who ultimately CameBackWrong, [[spoiler:Robb Stark]] was a non-POV EnsembleDarkhorse rather than one of the main characters, whose story was told mostly in [[spoiler:Catelyn]]'s POV chapters, and [[spoiler:Jon Snow]] will almost certainly come back (and in the [[Series/GameOfThrones TV adaptation]], [[spoiler:he did return to life]]). The four characters who are usually considered the most important and popular ([[spoiler:Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow and Arya Stark]]) have faced death many times but it never seems to stick. Martin obviously enjoys his reputation for killing characters, but he also rightfully insists it's actually exaggerated. His original outline for the books (though admittedly deviated from several times by now) outright states that [[spoiler:Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon, Arya and Bran]] are the five most central characters and will remain as [=POVs=] from the beginning to the end of the series. |
| 56 | ** Some fans refer to certain characters with bastard surnames even if they don't canonically have them, such as "Gendry Waters" or "Satin Flowers" (Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn even had Gendry's official character tag listed as "Gendry Waters" at one point). Only acknowledged bastards with at least one highborn parent are given a bastard surname. |
| 57 | ** Due to the HBO's adaptation making a very big deal out of the Lannisters' dire financial state, a lot of discussions regarding the Lannisters tend to take it as fact that it applies to the books as well. There is actually no mention of the Lannisters going broke in the books, or that their gold mines are running dry. |
| 58 | ** A lot of people both in-universe and out believe that silent sisters have their tongues removed. They are actually silent because of a religious vow. |
| 59 | * CompleteMonster: Worryingly, this [[Monster/ASongOfIceAndFire has its own page.]] It needs it. |
| 60 | * CrackPairing: Domeric Bolton is sometimes paired with Lyanna Stark, due to a comment from Roose about them riding together. Mind you that Domeric probably was almost [[WritersCannotDoMath a decade younger than Lyanna]]. |
| 61 | * DiagnosedByTheAudience: Melisandre shows some possible symptoms of PTSD in her POV chapter including dissociation and nightmares, quite likely due to her DarkAndTroubledPast as a survivor of enslavement. It's worth noting that religious fundamentalism is often employed as a coping mechanism by survivors of PTSD. |
| 62 | * DracoInLeatherPants: |
| 63 | ** Littlefinger is wildly popular, despite being one of the most scheming and villainous characters in the series, and in many ways the BigBad of the story ([[BigBadEnsemble or one of them, anyway]]). It helps that he's quite witty as well as described as stylish. More than one fan has even expressed a wish to see Littlefinger come out on top in the game of thrones. |
| 64 | ** Sandor Clegane is also extremely popular despite his violent and morally grey behaviour. He's also repeatedly described as hideously deformed. [[LampshadeHanging Even George R.R Martin himself doesn't quite get the appeal]]. |
| 65 | ** Ramsay Snow, the Bastard of Bolton, often gets this treatment from fans, although in his case at least some of it is tongue-in-cheek, partially because he is so over-the-top evil. |
| 66 | ** Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers gets this mostly because he looks like [[Literature/TheElricSaga Elric]] and for possessing both [[JustForFun/XMeetsY Valyrian and First Men]] abilities. Fans usually gloss over the fact that Rivers let thousands die during the Great Spring Sickness while devoting most of his time on a feud with Bittersteel, as well as using magic to convert Westeros into a PoliceState. He can be seen as a WellIntentionedExtremist, as his ruthless methods seem to have been necessary. |
| 67 | ** [[EvilOverlord Euron Greyjoy]] for being [[ObviouslyEvil flamboyantly evil]] even by Ironborn standards and getting himself elected King with a rousing speech to the Ironborn about how he plans to conquer Westeros. This even though he [[spoiler:[[CainAndAbel murdered his brother Balon]] (who was also a [[AssholeVictim massive jerk]])]], is implied to have molested [[BrotherSisterIncest one of his brothers]] and raped (according to him seduced) the wife of another. |
| 68 | * EpilepticTrees: |
| 69 | ** Varys is a merman, due to various remarks and observations from other characters that associate Varys with fish and the water. [[https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/1gvbr7/all_spoilerstheory_the_best_theory_about_varys_i/ This has been expanded]] to numerous characters that are secretly merlings or are being manipulated by them, in order to melt the Wall and flood human civilization so they can take over the world. |
| 70 | ** [[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/30mat2/spoilers_all_ddt_a_neverbeforeseen_theory/ D+D=T]], a theory that Tyrion is the child of Daenerys and Drogo that was sent back in time to be born from Joanna Lannister, and her stillborn child was switched with him. This supplements the (less-ridiculous but probably still false) theory that Tyrion is a secret Targaryen bastard from the Mad King raping Joanna, which is why he looks so different from the other Lannisters and why Tywin loathes him so much. |
| 71 | ** [[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1xe89h/spoilers_all_bolt_on_apply_directly_to_the/ Bolt-On]], which postulates that Roose Bolton is actually an immortal (possibly a child of a human and an Other) that steals the skins of his enemies to take on their form and hide his true identity. |
| 72 | ** Or [[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/10tv6i/spoilers_all_benjen_starks_secret_identity_theory/ Benjen=Daario]], which is just what it sounds like, the theory that Daario Naharis is actually Benjen Stark. This can be expanded to other characters that have had their fates unconfirmed or are mysterious and magical; Benjen=Daario=Euron=Jaqen=Syrio. |
| 73 | ** Because the Three-Eyed Crow is such a powerful warg and possibly approaching omniscience, he could have a hand in potentially ''any'' event throughout the series as long as an animal is tangentially involved for him to warg into; he was the one who sent the direwolf to be killed so the Starks would adopt the pups, he had Summer defend Bran from the Catspaw, he uses Mormont's raven to spy on Jon and had the raven land on Jon's shoulder during the election to influence the verdict, he uses the stray cats in King's Landing to spy on the city, etc., etc. It helps that in-universe there were a lot of conspiracy theories about him during [[spoiler:his tenure as King Aerys I's spymaster when he was known as Brynden Rivers, aka Bloodraven, including suspicions that he warged into animals to spy on the city and used magic to hide his appearance.]] |
| 74 | ** Since the series repeatedly brings attention to characters that physically resemble each other as proof of family lineage, any time a character is mentioned to resemble someone else, cue speculation they could secretly be related. Or, if they don't resemble their supposed family, that's a sign they're not really related (this is how the theory that Tyrion is secretly a Targaryen came about). Related to the former, if a minor character's appearance resembles a major character, there will be theories of them being a secret bastard child of the family. |
| 75 | ** Jon Snow's mother is this ''in-universe.'' [[HonorBeforeReason Eddard Stark]] fathering a bastard without revealing the mother is simply so peculiar to many that even some characters without any connection to Jon have pondered who she was. |
| 76 | ** There's an out-of-universe theory that Aerion Brightflame's descendants were originally going to play a role very similar to that of the Blackfyres, being challenger to Danaerys' claim to the throne. Proponents of this theory believe that the Blackfyres did not exist in George's original outline of the story, as evidenced by them not being mentioned in any work published prior to 1999, with their eventual role instead fulfilled by a dynasty of Aerion's bastards from his exile in Essos. It's for this reason that Aerion was mentioned back in the second book and the first Dunk and Egg novella heavily features him. |
| 77 | * EnsembleDarkHorse: [[EnsembleDarkHorse/ASongOfIceAndFire Has its own page]]. |
| 78 | * EvilIsCool: |
| 79 | ** A good deal of fans love Littlefinger, despite his role in making things worse. |
| 80 | ** Ramsay Snow is one of the most popular villains of the series due to being completely vile yet also proving to be scarily clever and cunning, even while being sadistically impulsive. |
| 81 | ** Euron Greyjoy is as evil as one can be even in [[CrapsackWorld Westeros]]. But he also has a very cool design, a sigil reminiscent of Sauron, is incredibly charismatic and intelligent in contrast to most of his family, and has a lot of magic and mystery surrounding him. |
| 82 | ** Lady Stoneheart is popular among fans, to the point of being one of the most fan-requested characters/arcs for ''Series/GameOfThrones''. Needless to say, many were disappointed that she was ultimately AdaptedOut. |
| 83 | * FandomRivalry: Has somehow occurred ''within the same franchise'', although between different mediums. Ever since ''[[Series/GameOfThrones Game of Thrones']]'' widely panned final seasons, fans of the books have disavowed the TV series (except for a faction that accepts the first four, which follow the books more closely), deriding fans of the later seasons as "kneelers" for still supporting Benioff and Weiss's decisions, such as removing several characters and storylines integral to future books (Lady Stoneheart, Tysha, the Northern rebellion, Doran's plotting, etc.) and making what are perceived as inferior additions, while the TV fans consider the book fans to be high-and-mighty know-it-alls who just dislike the show not following the book in lockstep. |
| 84 | * FanficFuel: Westeros's history has drawn a lot of attention from fanfiction writers, particularly Robert's Rebellion, since there are a lot of fascinating events and people but not much detail. In fact, there are plenty of mysteries that the characters themselves are still puzzling over. Not to mention the accounts from various characters [[UnreliableNarrator contradict each other or are blatantly biased]], so everyone seems to have their own idea about how the everything really happened. |
| 85 | * {{Fanon}}: Currently with his [[Fanon/ASongOfIceAndFire own page]]. |
| 86 | * FanPreferredCouple: Jon/Daenerys is a popular ship and has been speculated for nearly the 25 years during which ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' has been published, due in large part to the common perception that Jon and Daenerys are the two most heroic characters in the story and represent the "Ice" and "Fire" of the title, even though as of the latest book, ''A Dance with Dragons'', they have yet to meet or even be on the same continent. While Jon/Daenerys becomes canon in later seasons of the show counterpart ''Series/GameOfThrones'', the books have not caught up to this point. |
| 87 | * FetishRetardant: The sex scenes tend to be closer to {{Narm}}[=/=]{{Squick}} than {{Fanservice}}. |
| 88 | ** When [[spoiler: Sam and Gilly]] make love on the ''Cinnamon Wind'', his penis is described as a "fat pink mast". |
| 89 | ** Cersei and Taena's lesbian sex scene is utterly killed when Cersei calls Taena's pubic hair a "Myrish swamp". |
| 90 | ** During one of Jon's sexual encounters with Ygritte, he's "as hard as the rocks around them". |
| 91 | ** Cersei and Jaime having [[BrotherSisterIncest incestuous]] sex in a sept [[spoiler: next to their son's dead body]] while she's on her period is a pretty infamous scene. |
| 92 | ** Right after Dany finishes a ritualistic bath in Vaes Dothrak, Drogo has sex with her in front of everyone (the Dothraki don't have a taboo against public nudity or sex, but still). [[SpeedSex "Three quick strokes and it was done."]] Really? |
| 93 | * FriendlyFandoms: Thanks to their similar themes, fans of this franchise as a whole tend to also love ''Franchise/TheWitcher'' franchise as a whole. It helps that the two franchises got popular under similar circumstances: originally starting out as novel series in TheNineties, but receiving massive {{Newbie Boom}}s thanks to [[Series/GameOfThrones respective]] [[VideoGame/TheWitcher adaptations]] in the [[TurnOfTheMillennium late 2000's]] and early [[TheNewTens 2010's]]. |
| 94 | * GeniusBonus: |
| 95 | ** Maesters earn silver chain links for mastering the field of medicine. Silver is known for its antibiotic properties, and it has a history of medical use in various real-world cultures. |
| 96 | ** At one point in ''A Dance With Dragons'', Stannis's army is marching to rescue [[spoiler:the supposed Arya Stark]]. One of the knights asks if all of the trouble is worth it for a woman; this is a reference to ''Literature/TheIliad''. The knight who responds to this comment is nicknamed "Middle Liddle," which is also the nickname of a commonly used lexicon of Ancient Greek. |
| 97 | ** House Martell rules the Moorish Spain analogue of Dorne. In the real world, Charles 'the Hammer' Martel was the Frankish king who fought to keep the Moors from spreading beyond the Iberian peninsula. |
| 98 | ** The Tyrell family [[spoiler:are responsible for Joffrey's death. One of the characters Joffrey is based on is the Prince in the Tower Edward V. Sir James Tyrell was a man who apparently confessed to murdering them.]] |
| 99 | ** Since the series is heavily based on the UsefulNotes/WarsOfTheRoses (with the Stark and Lannister families standing in for the Houses of York and Lancaster), a few small details will seem particularly meaningful if you know the Wars better than most. Case in point: the central conflict in the series is called "The War of the Five Kings" as a subtle nod to the fact that the Wars of the Roses spanned the reigns of five different kings from [[SuccessionCrisis competing dynasties]] ([[UsefulNotes/TheHouseOfPlantagenet Henry VI, Edward IV, Edward V, Richard III]], and [[UsefulNotes/TheHouseOfTudor Henry VII]]). |
| 100 | ** As the series goes on, it gradually becomes clear that the Tyrells are meant to be stand-ins for the RealLife House of Tudor, with their name, their rose emblem, and their [[TheStarscream uneasy alliance]] with an ambitious Queen Regent. If you know your British geography, you might notice that the position of the Tyrells' home realm in Westeros corresponds perfectly to the position of Wales in Britain. The Tudors were originally a Welsh family, with "Tudor" being an anglicized variant of the Welsh given name "Tewdwr". |
| 101 | ** In addition to this, there are all sorts of subtle references and meta-commentary to obscure and famous historical incidents and persons. Deciphering it has proven to be an UnconventionalLearningExperience for readers in Ancient and Medieval European History. |
| 102 | * HardToAdaptWork: Creator/GeorgeRRMartin reportedly made ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' under the premise that he was creating a story that had no chance to be adapted into a movie or series. ''Series/GameOfThrones'' seemed to take that as a challenge, and being an Creator/{{HBO}} series was able to throw a lot of money to create an acclaimed show. It still required extensive changes to the original story, as well as [[OvertookTheManga surpassing the story of the books]] due to Martin's ScheduleSlip. |
| 103 | * HarsherInHindsight: Robb Stark is killed in the Red Wedding, with his last words being the name of his direwolf. Come a couple of books later, we find out that a warg often sends their mind into their animal upon their death (it had previously happened to Orell, but he was already warging into his bird at the time of his death). So it's possible that Robb Stark was brutally murdered, warged into Grey Wind, and then a few minutes later was brutally killed ''again''. |
| 104 | -->'''Robb:''' ''Mother, Grey Wind...'' |
| 105 | -->'''Catelyn:''' ''Go to him. Now.'' Robb, walk out of here. |
| 106 | * HesJustHiding: |
| 107 | ** Benjen Stark gets this a lot—the manner in which he disappeared partway into AGOT just ''screams'' for this revelation, especially given how much focus was put on it at the time. |
| 108 | ** [[spoiler:Sandor Clegane]], due to the not-so-subtle hints that he's [[spoiler:the big gravedigger on Quiet Isle]]. |
| 109 | ** [[spoiler:Syrio Forel.]] ''Many'' fans refuse to believe that he's dead due to the fact that he dies off page and no character ever actually says that he died. |
| 110 | ** Is there anybody in the fanbase that actually believes [[spoiler:Jon Snow]] died at the end of ADWD? Or [[spoiler:Stannis Baratheon]], for that matter? |
| 111 | * HilariousInHindsight: |
| 112 | ** There's a memorable gag in ''A Storm of Swords'' where Sam notices that someone cast a single vote for [[TheEeyore Dolorous Edd Tollett]] for Lord Commander, and immediately recognizes it as a joke by Pyp (''"Damn Pyp and his stupid japes..."''). When asked to address the Watch, all Edd can say is, [[SelfDeprecation "I just want to say to whoever is voting for me that I would certainly make an awful Lord Commander. But so would all these others."]] [[spoiler: In [[Series/GameOfThrones the TV show]], Edd actually ''does'' end up as Lord Commander, succeeding Jon as acting leader of the Watch after he steps down to become King in the North.]] |
| 113 | ** For ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'': |
| 114 | *** With his [[spoiler:physical and mental degradation after being killed and resurrected many times]], FlamingSword, TwentyFourHourArmor, and {{Determinator}} attitude, Beric Dondarrion sounds quite a lot like a ''Dark Souls'' protagonist. This is doubly hilarious after the announcement of ''VideoGame/EldenRing'', where Martin is working alongside ''Dark Souls'' creative director Creator/HidetakaMiyazaki. |
| 115 | *** Ser Davos Seaworth has the in-universe nickname "Onion Knight", more than a decade before Siegmeyer of Catarina inspired similar fan nicknames with the design of his armor. |
| 116 | * IAmNotShazam: Ever since [[Series/GameOfThrones the show]] came out and generated more interest in the books many people have ventured into libraries and bookstores asking for the "Game of Thrones Books". Of course, newer printings of the older books and all new books have "Game of Thrones, The Hit Original Series From HBO" stamped on them now, anyway. |
| 117 | * IKnewIt: |
| 118 | ** Based on correspondence with GRRM, who refused to confirm that [[spoiler:Rhaegar's son Aegon was killed during the Sack of King's Landing, some fans began to believe that it was a decoy that the Mountain snatched from Elia's hands and smashed against a wall]]. Guess who shows up in Tyrion's chapters? [[spoiler:Although Tyrion himself is skeptical about the decoy story, leaving it ambiguous for now whether Aegon is a pretender or the real Aegon]]. |
| 119 | ** Also, in DVDCommentary for the TV show, GRRM confirmed that [[spoiler:the undergaoler "Rugen" is one of Varys's disguises]]. |
| 120 | ** Fans had speculated for ''decades'' that [[spoiler:Jon Snow is Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's son]]. This is confirmed in the ''Series/GameOfThrones'' season 6 finale. [[spoiler:Since it's public knowledge that the identity of Jon Snow's mother was the piece of information that got series showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss the job adapting the show in the first place,]] this has in turn all but confirmed it for the books as well. |
| 121 | *** The R+L=J hypothesis receives all it's strongest evidence in the first book, and subsequent books introduce more information that makes that hypothesis less likely and the other possibilities more so. Many fans believe that R+L=J seems too obvious and must be a red herring. GRRM asked Benioff and Weiss who Jon Snow's mother was and they say he did not confirm their answer, he just smiled. GRRM may have chosen them because they would reinforce the red herring so readers will be surprised when they find out his parents are Benjen and Lyanna or Eddard and Ashara or one of the other strong contenders. |
| 122 | * ItWasHisSled: |
| 123 | ** In AGOT, the deaths of [[spoiler:Eddard and Robert]], [[spoiler:Robb is proclaimed as King Of The North and effectively seceded against the Iron Throne]], [[spoiler:Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are the children of Queen Cersei and her twin brother]], [[spoiler:[[TyrantTakesTheHelm Joffrey becomes king]]]] and the fact that [[spoiler:Dragons are reborn]]. |
| 124 | ** In ACOK, [[spoiler:Pycelle helped the Lannisters sack the capital. Winterfell being sacked]]. [[spoiler:Lack of Robert's legitimate heir used to justify his 2 brothers' claim to the throne, North and Iron Islands separately seceded and thus the start of CivilWar. Also Huge number of denizens north of The Wall try to cross it.]] [[spoiler: Ramsay Snow isn't really dead.]] |
| 125 | ** In ASOS, we learn that [[spoiler:Jaime killed The Mad King to save the realm]]. There's also [[spoiler:the Red and Purple Weddings]], the deaths of [[spoiler:Oberyn Martell, Tywin Lannister, and Gregor Clegane]], [[spoiler:the Others and wights are real (though this was pretty clear from the first book), are approaching Seven Kingdoms along the long winter and both are the reason the Wildlings try to cross The Wall]], and Catelyn [[spoiler:comes back as the vengeful, zombified Lady Stoneheart]]. |
| 126 | ** AFFC: [[spoiler: The Martells are plotting against the Iron Throne]] and [[spoiler:Tommen becomes king with Cersei as the real power behind him]]. |
| 127 | ** In ADWD, [[spoiler:Rhaegar's son Aegon is very much alive. The Children of the Forest aren't extinct]]. |
| 128 | * LauncherOfAThousandShips: Due to the unwieldy number of characters, there are several ship launchers in this work: |
| 129 | ** Daenerys Targaryen, whose ships include: Dany/Drogo, Dany/Jorah, Dany/Jon, Dany/Aegon, Dany/Handmaidens, Dany/Tyrion, Dany/Viserys, Dany/Daario, Dany/Robb, Dany/Quentyn, Dany/Victarion, Dany/Asha (or Yara, as this is particularly popular with show fans), Dany/[[Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse Loki]], Dany/[[Literature/TheVampireDiaries Damon Salvatore]], etc. |
| 130 | ** Sansa Stark is also a biggie with: Sansa/Sandor, Sansa/Tywin, Sansa/Willas Tyrell, Sansa/Tyrion, Sansa/Aegon, Sansa/Harry the Heir, Sansa/Petyr, Sansa/Jon, Sansa/Jaime, Sansa/Tommen, Sansa/Margaery, Sansa/Pod, etc. |
| 131 | ** Arya Stark with: Arya/Gendry, Arya/Jaqen, Arya/Jon Arya/Edric Dayne, Arya/Aegon, [[{{Squick}} Arya/Robert Baratheon]], Arya/Willas, Arya/Tywin, Arya/Jaime, Arya/Hound, Gendry/Arya/Aegon, etc. |
| 132 | ** Jon Snow with: Jon/Ygritte, Jon/Val, Jon/Dany, Jon/Theon, Jon/Robb, Jon/Aegon, Jon/Sam, Jon/Jaime, Jon/Arya, Jon/Sansa, Jon/Catelyn, Jon/Satin, Jon/Alys, Jon/Jeyne Westerling, Jon/Jeyne Poole etc. |
| 133 | ** Aegon Targaryen with: Aegon/Dany, Aegon/Arya, Aegon/Sansa, Aegon/Jon, Aegon/Margaery, Aegon/Arianne, etc. |
| 134 | ** Ned Stark with: Ned/Catelyn, Ned/Robert, Ned/Lyanna, Ned/Ashara Dayne, Ned/Wylla, Ned/Cersei, Ned/Jaime, and even Ned/Margaery. |
| 135 | ** Robb Stark with: Robb/Dacey, Robb/Roslin Frey, Robb/Jeyne Westerling, Robb/Myrcella, Robb/Margaery, Robb/Jaime, Robb/Roose, Robb/Sansa, Robb/Theon, etc. |
| 136 | ** Theon Greyjoy has been shipped with: Theon/Robb, Theon/Sansa, Theon/Jon, Theon/Tristifer Botley, Theon/Catelyn, Theon/Roose, Theon/Ramsay ([[{{Squick}} Yes, really]]), Theon/Asha, Theon/Myrcella, Theon/Jeyne Poole, Theon/Jeyne Westerling, Theon/Arya, Theon/Stannis, Theon/Barbarey Dustin, Theon/Cersei, etc. |
| 137 | * LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: Although the books have a reputation for AnyoneCanDie, few fans really bought either that [[spoiler:Brienne]] had been hanged (for one thing it would have made her preceding story an infuriating ShootTheShaggyDog), or that [[spoiler:Jon Snow]] had been KilledOffForReal. Though the ''exact'' fate of the latter has yet to be confirmed, his story is too important to the MythArc to be ending just yet. [[spoiler:The show, at least, confirms he gets better.]] |
| 138 | * LoveToHate: |
| 139 | ** Joffrey Baratheon. One of the biggest douches in the series, but so very fun to ''loathe'' with a passion. |
| 140 | ** A more amiable example would be Tywin Lannister, who generates admiration because of his badass aura and his history of being a rather effective battle commander and leader, who can keep a leash on Joffrey. He's of course balanced out for his cold attitude and his unfair treatment of his son Tyrion. |
| 141 | ** Ramsay Snow managed to actually surpass Joffrey in terms of being a vile monster. But he is just as much fun to hate. It helps that he’s managed to prove that he’s actually a genuine threat and is capable of being scarily clever. |
| 142 | ** Euron Greyjoy has so far only appeared in one book but he quickly became of the most popular villains with his awesome design, his incredible charisma, and how terrifyingly evil he is even by Ironborn standards. This increased exponetially with the release of The Forsaken preview chapter for ''Winds of Winter'', due to hinting at his higher ambitions and plans for achieving them, and being generally regarded by those who have read it as possibly the most NightmareFuel-inducing chapter ever written for the series, entirely due to Euron's presence and actions. This has made him the single most popular candidate for the overall human BigBad of the entire saga. |
| 143 | ** Gregor Clegane aka the Mountain, rivals Ramsay Snow and Euron Greyjoy in pure utter evil. And it only makes one want to see him finally get what he has coming to him. His duel with Oberyn is one of the most memorable in the series, and Gregor has proven that while he’s a psychotic sadist, he’s still a terrifying fighter and a competent battle commander. |
| 144 | ** In yet another, totally different way: Lord Walder Frey. Let's face it: almost all of us are looking forward to when (as well as how) he buys the farm for a lot of very valid reasons. Not least to see the rest of the equally hateable Freys (save for [[WhiteSheep the few sympathetic ones]]) [[EvilPowerVacuum inevitably collapse into a vicious struggle for power]] and bump each other off left, right and centre. |
| 145 | * MagnificentBastard: See [[MagnificentBastard/ASongOfIceAndFire here]]. |
| 146 | * MagnumOpusDissonance: Certainly Martin's most famous work, yet he seems to care more about ''Literature/WildCards''. |
| 147 | * MemeticBadass: |
| 148 | ** Randyll Tarly became the fandom's answer to the Chuck Norris Facts fad. Tarly is a fairly tough customer in the series, but nothing close to the level that fans playfully describe him. |
| 149 | ** Jaime Lannister is known within the world as one of, if not the best, swordsmen around. The 2010 suvudu.com "cage matches" between fictional characters drew a large contingent of supporters for Jaime, who bested [[Literature/HarryPotter Hermione Granger]] and Cthulhu, among others, before facing off against ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'''s CrystalDragonJesus, [[TheChosenOne Rand al'Thor]]. Martin wrote short descriptions of how he thought Jaime would win, which usually relied on Tyrion providing him a game plan. |
| 150 | ** Wyman Manderly has attained this status (with praises that sound almost Chuck Norris-esque, e.g. [[spoiler:"Lord Manderly is a vegetarian. Meaning, he does not eat Freys until first he puts them into vegetative state with his fists."). His earned badassery comes from the fact that everyone underestimated the jolly fat man, and that he had the audacity to feed Frey pies to people like Ramsay and Roose Bolton without them even suspecting, and even having the bard sing "Rat Cook" right to their faces without them realizing anything, and finally ''surviving his throat being cut''.]] |
| 151 | ** Rickon Stark is more of a Memetic FutureBadass. He's by far the most aggressive Stark, despite being the youngest, has the most savage direwolf by his side and [[spoiler: is living on an island of cannibals that '''everyone''' [[TheDreaded is afraid of]] with a wildling spearwife]]. Many fans expect him to grow up to be a fierce warrior who'll wipe out all of House Stark's enemies and might even [[spoiler: become the next King in the North]]. |
| 152 | * MemeticLoser: Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne is regarded this way by a good portion of the fanbase. This stems partially from his rather cheesy name, appearance and persona, with lines like "[[{{Narm}} I am of the night]]" seen as trying too hard to invoke EvilIsCool, crossed with the fact that for all his boasting and buildup as a badass the only thing of note he does is [[spoiler:try to kill Myrcella Baratheon (an unarmed and harmless little girl), a task which he fails at.]] This has led to his nickname "[[FanNickname Dorkstar]]" and general perception as a whiny, pretentious EmoTeen and incompetent poseur with an over-inflated opinion of himself. |
| 153 | * MemeticMutation: |
| 154 | ** "Oh sweet summer child" [[labelnote:Explanation]]A phrase from the books used to lightly mock the naivete of new readers who still haven't figured out how bad things are going to get.[[/labelnote]] |
| 155 | ** The phrase "secret Targaryen warg" is sometimes used to poke fun at the various EpilepticTrees surrounding the series, due to it being a fairly accurate summary of fan theories. |
| 156 | ** [[PokemonSpeak Hodor. Hodor. Hodor? Hodor.]] Hodor's VerbalTic is part of what has turned him into an EnsembleDarkhorse, and tends to make its way into discussions that have nothing to do with him. |
| 157 | ** GET HYPE FOR CLEGANEBOWL, the long-anticipated showdown between [[CainAndAbel Sandor Clegane and Gregor Clegane]], [[spoiler: the latter of whom is speculated to be an undead puppet and the mysterious Kingsguard Robert Strong; taking into account that Sandor is probably a gravedigger of all things lends to a showdown of poetic justice.]] |
| 158 | ** [[DirtyOldMan Inappropriate Uncle Brandon]] became extremely popular on the Website/KinkMeme. |
| 159 | ** Blatantly ridiculous fan theories like "Euron is actually Benjen, who is actually Rhaegar, who is actually Mance" or "Lightbringer isn't actually a sword, it's just what Azor Ahai called his penis." "Benjen=Euron=Daario" in particular is bound to be brought up every time one of the characters is mentioned. |
| 160 | ** "[[AxCrazy Ramsey]] is his own warning." It's a very common tag on Website/ArchiveOfOurOwn. |
| 161 | ** Poking fun at [[TryToFitThatOnABusinessCard the many titles and nicknames]] that many characters have, especially Daenerys Targaryen. |
| 162 | ** Ending long lists with, "And Moonboy for all I know." [[labelnote:Explanation]]After naming two men Cersei has been having sex with behind Jaime's back, Tyrion also throws in Moonboy the fool seemingly just to spite Jaime. The line is often used in other lists for the sheer absurdism that a mere fool is somehow involved no matter how improbable or ridiculous the scenario is.[[/labelnote]] |
| 163 | ** Fan casting Creator/HenryCavill as multiple characters at the same time, especially both Robert Baratheon and Rhaegar Targaryen. |
| 164 | ** "We need a new book" / "What 10 years of no Winds will do to a mf" / "George, please..."[[labelnote:Explanation]]Reactions to a particularly wild theory or essay about minutiae[[/labelnote]] |
| 165 | ** Tyrek was last seen a horse. [[labelnote:Explanation]]During the bread riots in a Clash of Kings, Tyrion noted that Tyrek Lannister was last seen “ahorse,” so fandom likes to claim that he literally turned into a horse.[[/labelnote]] |
| 166 | ** But what was his tax policy? [[labelnote:Explanation]]Martin's rhetorical question "What was [[Literature/TheLordOfTheRings Aragorn's]] tax policy?" has been taken gleefully literally by critics who inquire about the tax policies of King Robert, etc.[[/labelnote]] |
| 167 | ** Howland Reed's shotgun. [[labelnote:Explanation]]Thus far it hasn't been explained how Howland helped defeat the famed swordsman Arthur Dayne. Redditors have decided this means he [[NeverBringAKnifeToAGunFight blasted him with a shotgun]], and provide "evidence" by inserting lines mentioning the shotgun into quotes from canon.[[/labelnote]] |
| 168 | ** Dany shat herself / "Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning...". [[labelnote:Explanation]]Daenerys seemingly catches dysentery during [=ADWD=] and her... ahem, struggle with it is described in exquisite detail.[[/labelnote]] |
| 169 | * {{Moe}}: |
| 170 | ** Tommen Baratheon, a sweet little boy who loves kittens and just wants to [[spoiler: be a good king.]] Many fans are praying he doesn't kick the bucket sometime in the future because he's just so adorable. |
| 171 | ** To a lesser extent, his older sister Myrcella. Still sweet, but a little more grown up. People InUniverse mention that [[WiseBeyondTheirYears she's brighter than many adults]] [[AdorablyPrecociousChild despite her young age]], while lacking any of the cruelty her big brother, mother or grandfather display. |
| 172 | ** Penny, the innocent, naive dwarf girl that [[MoralityPet helps Tyrion keep it together]] in ''A Dance With Dragons''. |
| 173 | ** To her fans, Sansa Stark. |
| 174 | ** Missandei, who's frequently described as tiny, has a TearJerker of a past, and refers to herself as "[[ThirdPersonPerson this one]]" until Dany asks her to stop. |
| 175 | * MoralEventHorizon: A number of characters have crossed the boundary from grey to black morality: |
| 176 | ** When King Joffrey Baratheon orders the [[spoiler:execution of protagonist Eddard "Ned" Stark]], who was meant to be spared. [[ForTheEvulz Not only is it pointlessly bloodthirsty, it sparks war]]. |
| 177 | ** Tywin Lannister crossed this line before the beginning of the series: When his son Tyrion fell in love with a thirteen-year old orphan, he lied to Tyrion that the girl was a paid whore and forced Jaime to lie as well. Tywin then had his entire garrison of soldiers brutally gang-rape the poor girl, [[RapeByProxy forcing Tyrion to watch it all]] ''[[RapeByProxy and then participate]]''. [[spoiler:The minute Tyrion learns the AwfulTruth, he flies into a murderous rage and brutally kills Tywin since this for him was the absolute last straw. The fact that it turns out that Tywin was a lying hypocrite who had sex with Shae (Tyrion's girlfriend) makes his actions even more monstrous]]. |
| 178 | ** Theon Greyjoy has perhaps the most notable one. Starting as something of a {{Jerkass}} with a downtrodden history that made him sympathetic, Theon crosses the line in a shocking way. [[spoiler:His most heinous deed is when he allows Ramsay Bolton in the guise of 'Reek' to kill miller's two young boys, and spiked their tarred heads to his gate to cover up the escape of Bran and Rickon Stark]]. And then ''A Dance with Dragons'', using some of the best writing in the series, [[spoiler:manages to bring him firmly back into the sympathetic category again because of the horrific tortures he receives from his captors]]. |
| 179 | ** Roose Bolton crossed the line years ago by raping a peasant woman when she refused to sleep with him. The result? Ramsay. |
| 180 | ** The Red Wedding caused much of House Frey to cross the line, especially [[spoiler: Walder Frey. He orchestrated the massacre out of spite and laughed while it happened (not to mention that murdering a guest under your roof is considered one of the most despicable and dishonorable things a person can do in Westeros). However, the mastermind behind the Red Wedding was Tywin Lannister, and Roose Bolton was also involved, but both of them had ''already'' crossed the Moral Event Horizon]]. |
| 181 | *** The Red Wedding is absolutely this ''in-universe'' for everyone involved. While those implicated were no strangers to abominable actions that might've crossed the line for readers, violating the right of hospitality was plainly too far for many. |
| 182 | ** What Gregor did to Princess Elia and her baby. Even worse is that he laughs about it and was only 17 at the time. Also, he held his little brother's face in a fire because Sandor played with his toys. It's also hinted that Gregor killed his father, his little sister, and his first two wives. He once even killed a man for snoring too loudly! |
| 183 | ** Subtle one: Theon notices whip marks on Jeyne (who's 12/13) who also claimed to be trained to please a man. [[FridgeHorror And once you realize]] [[SexSlave what Littlefinger meant with "I'll take care of her"...]] |
| 184 | ** An in-universe example: several characters consider Jaime Lannister's killing of [[TheCaligula Aerys Targaryen]] to be this. Since Jaime himself thinks it's his SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome (with considerable justification, given that Aerys was planning to burn down the entire city of King's Landing ''with its residents still inside''), this causes friction. An example is [[spoiler: throwing Bran Stark out of a tower window [[LeaveNoWitnesses because the boy saw him]] having sex with his twin sister.]] |
| 185 | ** If Cersei had not long since passed the MEH, her treatment of Falyse Stokeworth would see her leaping across it. [[spoiler:She tells Falyse and her husband to get rid of Bronn, and when the plan fails she condemns Falyse to be tortured to death by Qyburn without a second thought simply because her presence at court would inconvenience Cersei.]] |
| 186 | ** Varys crosses it when he [[spoiler:murders Kevan Lannister to deliberately destabilize the realm. Regardless of his supposed good intentions, he's dooming thousands more to die, even though it's supposedly for the realm's good]]. |
| 187 | ** Years ago, Rorge took in an orphan boy. He proceeded to file the lad's teeth and force him to fight dogs until he went insane. You know that boy as [[ImAHumanitarian Biter]]. |
| 188 | ** Viserys Targaryen threatened to cut his sister Daenerys's fetus out of her belly [[DisproportionateRetribution because her husband took too long to keep a promise]]. |
| 189 | ** One of the most chilling [=MEHs=] of the novels comes when we find out what happened to [[BastardBastard Ramsay]] [[PsychopathicManchild Bolton's]] wife: he forced Lady Hornwood to marry him so he could take her lands, then locked her in a tower with nothing to eat. They found her with no fingers and blood around her mouth. Ramsay may have crossed it before the series began, when he poisoned his legitimate kind-hearted brother Domeric so he could become their father's heir. |
| 190 | ** Aerys II [[TheCaligula "The Mad King"]] seems to have crossed it when he burnt Lord Rickard Stark to death while his oldest son Brandon was ForcedToWatch and strangled to death. Brandon had threatened to kill Aerys's son for kidnapping his sister, but it was still horrific what Aerys did. |
| 191 | ** Randyll Tarly either crossed it by threatening to arrange a HuntingAccident on his own son unless he joins the Night's Watch, or even earlier in the backstory, by [[spoiler:chaining said son to a wall for three days straight for daring to want to become a Maester]]. |
| 192 | ** Euron Greyjoy definitely pulled this in the recent Aeron's chapter that was read at Baticon. [[spoiler: Cutting off a warlock's legs which traumatized him to become Reek-like, [[CainandAbel murdering 3 of his brothers]], [[KickTheMoralityPet abandoning his new salt wife (who believed in him) to her death]], and [[TheReveal the reveal]] that he raped his younger brother has immoveably established his villainy and monstrosity.]] |
| 193 | * {{Narm}}: |
| 194 | ** The way George RR Martin tries to write oenomatopoeia of things like war horns (HAAAAAAAARRROOOOOOOO). |
| 195 | ** Long-winded descriptions of food and clothing. Particularly when it seems like not a single meal can be described without a mention of grease running down chins or into beards. |
| 196 | ** The combination of archaic phrases with more modern language annoys some readers. For example, "break your fast" instead of "have breakfast" and the intermittent use of "four-and-twenty" structure for numbers. |
| 197 | ** George also begins to humorously misuse the adjective "[[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/wroth wroth]]" as noun in later novels when he talks of "God's wroth" or "Ramsay in his wroth". The noun he was looking for is actually "wrath." (Basically, if you can substitute "anger" use "wrath", if "angry" use "wroth.") It seems even excellent authors can fall victim to DelusionsOfEloquence. |
| 198 | ** Viserys's warnings about [[YouWouldntLikeMeWhenImAngry "waking the dragon"]]. Fair enough, it would be frightening from Dany's perspective. From the reader's perspective, he's too obviously a little shit to be frightened by. It doesn't help that he uses the phrase nearly every time he appears, and by the end he sounds more like he's trying to [[ForcedMeme turn it into his catchphrase]] than actually threatening anyone. |
| 199 | ** Similarly, in-universe it makes sense for Daenerys to name one of her dragons after her husband. Many readers, however, find it impossible to take "Drogon the dragon" seriously, even after he starts eating people. |
| 200 | ** Theon names his ship ''Sea Bitch''. |
| 201 | ** In a scene from the fifth book, Dany hears Quaithe talking to her in the stars, telling her "Remember who you are." It can't possibly be taken seriously when the same thing happens, word for word, in ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing1994''. |
| 202 | ** Also, in ASOS, Stannis and Melisandre talk about "waking the great stone dragons" on Dragonstone... just like the Ancestors wanted Mushu to do in ''WesternAnimation/{{Mulan}}''. |
| 203 | ** Darkstar's introduction to Myrcella in ''Literature/AFeastForCrows'' is "Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night." You can't help but giggle at that line because it blatantly came from a certain [[Franchise/{{Batman}} Dark Knight]] who is obviously way out of that loser's league. |
| 204 | ** [[spoiler:Lady Stoneheart]] sounds like the name of an evil stepmother from a fairy tale, or worse yet, a ''Franchise/CareBears'' villain. |
| 205 | ** Maegor's reign lasts exactly [[NumberOfTheBeast six years and sixty-six days.]] Carries all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the teeth. One of his champions in a Trial by Combat is even called Lucifer Massey. Also, [[OffWithHisHead Maegor repeatedly executing Grand Maesters]] happens so many times it borders on BlackComedy by the end, especially when Maester Benifer flees before he can become victim number four. |
| 206 | ** The long, unnecessarily detailed description of [[spoiler: Daenerys suffering from diarrhea as a result of dysentery]] in ''A Dance With Dragons'', which is ''so'' disgusting that it wraps back around and becomes hilarious. It's reached MemeticMutation status with some fans, with the passage describing it becoming something of a copypasta used to mock the series on the internet. |
| 207 | ** There are other moments in the series where Martin's prose leaves much to be desired, especially in regards to the many sex scenes, which can become FanDisservice as a result. Among other things, there's a description of a penis as a "fat pink mast", a character's vagina described as a "Myrish swamp", and a scene where a character's sexual ecstasy is summed up with the line "her [[CountryMatters cunt]] became the world". Outside of sex scenes, there's also a line in the fifth book where a ship caught in a storm is described as groaning "like a constipated fat man straining to shit", which is just a bizarre simile, and ''not'' the sort of thing you want to be picturing at that moment (or ever). |
| 208 | * NauseaFuel: |
| 209 | ** The Dothraki like to get drunk on fermented mare's milk, a custom taken from their [[FantasyCounterpartCulture real-world counterpart culture]] (see [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumis kumis]]). Unlike real-world kumis and other dishes that appear in the books, the reader is given no reason to believe the drink is appetizing in any way, and it's described as being just as sour-smelling, lukewarm, and ''chunky'' as you would think. |
| 210 | ** The dishes at the [[spoiler:Red Wedding]] are either bland or just revolting (''jellied calf's brains?!''). |
| 211 | ** Not that the food in Slaver’s Bay is much better. Try and count how many times they brag about eating unborn puppy. |
| 212 | * NeverLiveItDown: |
| 213 | ** Catelyn Stark, despite being a kind and caring mother who gives her eldest son solid advice and a woman with a strong sense of honor and duty. She is widely disliked because her first actions in the series are against the extremely popular Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister. Against Jon, she is openly disdainful generally. She tells Ned in no uncertain terms that she will not allow Jon to remain in Winterfell because he is his son, not hers, after Ned leaves for the South. This anguishes Ned, who had hoped Jon would stay at Winterfell with Robb as they are so close. Maester Luwin comes and reveals that Jon wishes to join the Night's Watch. And in a moment of mad grief over her comatose seven-year-old son Bran, she tells him "it should have been you" before breaking down in tears. Soon after, upon meeting Tyrion Lannister at an inn, she arrests him for the attacks on Bran, mistakenly believing him to be the one responsible. This arrest serves as one of many catalysts that sets the long simmering tensions in Westeros aflame, erupting into the War of the Five Kings. |
| 214 | ** Similarly, Sansa Stark will apparently always be [[RonTheDeathEater vilified for her personality and actions in the first book]], with the BreakTheCutie induced CharacterDevelopment she undergoes in the later books apparently either ignored or said to not be enough to ever excuse an 11-year old girl for her past mistakes. In particular the Trident incident, where she refuses to corroborate Arya's truthful story about Joffrey attacking her and her friend Mycah, which leads to Mycah's and Lady (Sansa's direwolf) execution—is held against her for a ''very'' long time, and is almost always used in anti-Sansa arguments even years after the fact. [[note]] Though the fact that Sansa in-universe also blames Arya for "getting Lady killed" and takes a long time to admit it was actually Cersei and Joffrey's fault doesn't help.[[/note]] |
| 215 | * NoYay: |
| 216 | ** Ramsay Bolton's very... ''fond'' of his Reek. This only makes being Reek even more terrifying, if that's even ''possible.'' |
| 217 | --->"And what do you want, my sweet Reek?" Ramsay murmured, as softly as a lover. His breath smelled of mulled wine and cloves, so sweet. |
| 218 | ** Also, in early books, Littlefinger's stroking Sansa's face, commenting on her attractiveness, saying he understands Joffrey wanting the "sweet prize" of her body, squicked out many fans. [[spoiler: After book three, he's too obvious about his attraction to her for it to count as subtext, but, now that he's her [[CreepyUncle uncle]] and [[ParentalIncest passing her off as his daughter]], it's even creepier.]] |
| 219 | * OlderThanTheyThink: This was not the first work to feature a fantastic version of Britain beset by civil war, patterned somewhat after the Wars of the Roses, caused by an evil/mad king, and involving dragons. The strategy game ''{{VideoGame/Gemfire}}'', with a similar premise — minus the zombies — was released five years to the month previously. |
| 220 | * OneSceneWonder: |
| 221 | ** Old Nan and her story of the Last Hero is one of the most memorable parts of the books. |
| 222 | ** Maester Cressen, who only gets a single [[ADeathInTheLimelight Death in the Limelight]] POV chapter, an attempted TakingYouWithMe to protect Stannis from Melisandre's influence. Gets a lot of love for someone who effectively just [[SenselessSacrifice killed himself without actually achieving anything]]. |
| 223 | ** Ser Cortnay Penrose, castellan of [[MeaningfulName Storm's End]]. |
| 224 | --->"Very well, ''ser''. Bring on your storm. And remember, if you will, the ''name'' of this castle." |
| 225 | ** Archmaester Marwyn, called "The Mage" by the other archmaesters for his interest in the occult and [[JumpedAtTheCall jumping at the call]] to put his knowledge to work. |
| 226 | ** Septon Meribald and the Elder Brother in ''A Feast For Crows'' for being genuinely believable, flawed but good priests, and for the WarIsHell speeches given by both which is considered by many to be some of the best writing in the entire series. |
| 227 | ** Wyman Manderly's granddaughter [[PluckyGirl Wylla]], [[spoiler:who stands up for the Starks and gives Davos her support, despite her family's protests and attempts to silence her. Lord Wyman praises her bravado once he reveals his plan to Davos.]] |
| 228 | ** Lyanna Mormont, who doesn't even get an actual scene. One letter to Stannis from the ten-year-old daughter of Bear Island refusing to bend the knee, and she is everyone's hero. |
| 229 | ** Alys Karstark receives a lot of fan enthusiasm for her take-charge attitude. By fleeing her EvilUncle on horseback, she avoids a [[AndNowYouMustMarryMe forced marriage]], and by entering a bold arrangement with the Magnar of Thenn, she stands to inherit Karhold with a house full of free folk backing her. |
| 230 | * OpeningACanOfClones: The Faceless Men; just look at [[WMG/ASongOfIceAndFire the WMG page]]. This despite the fact that the only use of ActuallyADoombot the series has so far pulled off was actually Melisandre's doing. This also seems to be based on an earlier understanding of Faceless Man powers that was jossed in ''A Dance With Dragons'': [[spoiler: The Faceless Men keep around faces taken off of corpses and use blood magic to put them on their own faces. While this doesn't necessarily rule out impersonation via glamour, chances are that if a Faceless Man impersonates someone, the person they are impersonating is dead]]. |
| 231 | * {{Padding}}: A common criticism of Martin's writing is that, although the level of detail in the imagery and backstory is very impressive, an otherwise fine scene can grind to a halt because of just ''how much detail'' he puts in. There are several scenes in which a character tells another character some story or another, in several paragraphs' worth of dialogue. Some characters are given long, extensive backgrounds despite only appearing once, or even ''not at all''—for a good example, Stannis's fool Patchface. One of dozens of insignificant characters who only appears a few times with little to no effect on the plot, yet readers are given just about his entire life story. |
| 232 | * ReplacementScrappy: Darkstar was an admitted attempt to replace [[spoiler:Oberyn Martell]] with a badass [[PrivateMilitaryContractors mercenary]]. However, his big talk about being dark and awesome combined with his ineffectual attack on Myrcella make him come across more as a SmallNameBigEgo HarmlessVillain. |
| 233 | * RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: |
| 234 | ** As Sansa begins to accept that the world isn't a fairy tale, she starts to get more respect from the fandom. |
| 235 | ** As of ''A Dance With Dragons'', Theon Greyjoy. |
| 236 | ** When he [[SympatheticPOV became a viewpoint character]] and got some CharacterDevelopment, Jaime Lannister abruptly went from "that {{jerkass}} who [[WouldHurtAChild pushed a seven-year-old out a window]] for catching him [[{{Twincest}} banging his (married) twin sister]]" to one of the more popular characters in the series. |
| 237 | * RewatchBonus: The highly elaborate history of Westeros is an epic in itself. You just won't be able to fully appreciate it until you've read the books many times over. |
| 238 | * RomanticPlotTumor: Dany's teenage crush on Daario is one of the most frequently complained about things in ''A Dance With Dragons''. |
| 239 | * RootingForTheEmpire: [[spoiler:Lady Stoneheart (AKA Catelyn Stark)]] is supposed to be a horrific reminder what unchecked vengeance can do to a person. However, many of the audience openly root for [[spoiler:her]] to succeed, not only because [[spoiler:her]] motivation is extremely sympathetic and [[spoiler:she was a major POV character]] for the first three books; [[spoiler:her]] enemies the Boltons, Freys and Lannisters are all such {{Smug Snake}}s and have been escaping their evil deeds against the protagonists until then due to their immense political power. |
| 240 | * TheScrappy: A few examples, with a cast so large. Some are due to characters having intentional flaws, while others are simply disliked as characters. |
| 241 | ** Dany's Meereenese supporting cast in ''A Dance With Dragons'' is very unpopular for a variety of reasons: difficult names, perceived blandness and the idea that the conflict in Meereen is [[TrappedByMountainLions ultimately irrelevant]]. Daario Naharis draws particular ire for his negative effect on Dany's character. |
| 242 | ** [[spoiler:Prince Aegon Targaryen]], primarily to Dany's fans due to his brattiness compared to Dany's maturity (at a younger age, no less), as well as him coming completely out of nowhere and [[spoiler:going to conquer Westeros before Dany can. Plus, he has a much more solid claim to the Targaryen throne than Dany does, which Dany's fans feel ruins the value of her being the last Targaryen]]. To put this into perspective the prevailing fan theory before his appearance was [[spoiler:that he secretly survived despite his alleged murder by Gregor Clegane]]. When he finally did appear, the prevailing theory was that [[spoiler:yes, he did die, and this "Aegon" is a fake]]. |
| 243 | * SeasonalRot: ''A Feast for Crows'' features only half the usual characters and places a lot of emphasis on new characters, giving the reader more of a commoner's perspective of Westeros than before. Many readers rejected the shift in emphasis, preferring the focus stay on the main plot lines and characters. |
| 244 | * ShipMates: When it comes to CrackPairing, Sansa/Domeric and Myrcella/Robb are often shown side-by-side. Either way, Joffrey doesn't get anyone. |
| 245 | * ShipToShipCombat: In-universe example with the Rhaegar/Lyanna/Robert mess. Although Rhaegar running off with Lyanna was seen as a catastrophic situation all around, there are differing opinions over the couples. Robert, Brandon Stark and their supporters were obviously Robert/Lyanna shippers who thought he and Lyanna were in love and that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her, while Rhaegar's supporters were more sympathetic to Rhaegar/Lyanna, saw the Prince as a romantic who developed mutual feelings for Lyanna and perceived them as StarCrossedLovers. Meanwhile the Martells supported the Rhaegar/Elia match and were furious that Rhaegar abandoned his proper wife and got her killed. Notably, Ned—one of the few people who may have got Lyanna's perspective—is aware that Lyanna never loved Robert and that Robert never properly knew Lyanna, and speaks highly of Rhaegar despite everything. |
| 246 | * ShipsThatPassInTheNight: A good number of these: |
| 247 | ** For Sansa: Sansa/Jaime, Sansa/Willas, Sansa/Stannis, etc. |
| 248 | ** Jon Snow and Daenerys might be the biggest one, as many fans feel they fit the "Ice and Fire" motif. For two characters who have never met, they're a remarkably popular pairing. |
| 249 | ** [[spoiler: Aegon/Young Griff]] and about a dozen females he's never met. |
| 250 | * {{Squick}}: The series is known for its grittiness, gore, and creepy sex scenes. Often the squick is played for black humour. |
| 251 | ** A disgusting but completely hilarious scene is when Jaime and Cersei Lannister [[spoiler:have rough sex next to their son Joffrey's tomb. While Cersei bleeds from her period.]] Their incestuous relationship already brings a certain amount of squick to any sex scene. |
| 252 | ** Cersei describes how she got a kick out of eating Robert's semen as a figurative consumption of tens of thousands of his potential children out of spite. Weird. |
| 253 | ** Tywin Lannister in the end of book three is [[spoiler:shot in the gut with a crossbow while sitting naked on the privy, and takes a postmortem dump. Tyrion later suggests that shit was dripping from the wound]]. Later on, [[spoiler:due to dying from a gut wound, his body decomposes faster than normal and is getting rather ripe by the time of his funeral, and the smell nauseates everyone there]]. |
| 254 | ** Littlefinger and his creepy obsession with Sansa Stark, which is wrong on so many levels. |
| 255 | * ThemePairing: It has been (pretty convincingly) [[http://the-toast.net/2013/10/25/femslash-friday-sansa-brienne/ argued]] that Brienne and Sansa would be pretty much perfect for each other, as Sansa has not completely given up on the concept of a "true knight", and Brienne is exactly that. [[spoiler:The characters have yet to meet, though.]] |
| 256 | * TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Due to the huge number of characters, as well as its huge number of character deaths, it's likely every fan has at least a few character they wish could get more attention. |
| 257 | ** Jeyne Westerling. As a girl from the Westerlands marrying and falling in love with the young King in the North, she had a lot of potential characterization to be explored, but the book just drops her by the wayside following her introduction and lets [[spoiler:Robb die because of their marriage without developing their relationship]]. Later on, after the Red Wedding, it's explained that [[spoiler:her mother Sybelle Spicer was working with Tywin by using Jeyne as a pawn to instigate the Freys to betray Robb.]] The most we get out of her is her saying "I ''loved'' him" and the books fail to show how much [[spoiler:being used as a destabilizing tool]] affected her. |
| 258 | ** Dontos Hollard. As a child, he is the only survivor of the Defiance of Duskendale because Ser Barristan the Bold begged the Mad King to spare his life but he became a FailureKnight in his adulthood. His backstory alone interesting enough for him to be a major character. Instead, he's nothing but a greedy drunk who [[spoiler:gets killed by Littlefinger as soon as he helps him get Sansa out of King's Landing.]] |
| 259 | ** Ethan Glover somehow ended up as the SoleSurvivor of Brandon Stark's party to confront Rheager 16 years before the main series and immediately joined Ned after being liberated from the Black Cells. He could have been a good northern soldier with some interesting interactions with the Starks in the present, but instead, he died at the Tower of Joy, long before most of the Stark children were even born. |
| 260 | * TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: |
| 261 | ** Arianne's chapters had potential to be a very interesting arc, but it was foiled so quickly that many feel that there was really no point to her story. |
| 262 | ** Those new to the series may expect the concept of seasons lasting years at a time to be the unique selling point of the series, with it being a massively important part of Westerosi history and culture. Unfortunately, it's hardly ever brought up and you'd be forgiven for forgetting about it entirely when reading. Westeros is pretty much just a vague riff on (what is ostensibly) medieval Europe with none of the differences that would logically occur if the seasons were years long. This is not helped by certain places having consistent weather despite the "season", like the Land of Always Winter beyond the wall. It also doesn't help that the book series start in the middle of the longest recorded summer in history and the second Long Night's arrival is still waiting for the ScheduleSlip. |
| 263 | * TooCoolToLive: |
| 264 | ** [[spoiler:Syrio Forel]], ''so much'', which, combined with his [[KilledOffscreen off-screen death]], has predictably led some fans to speculate that HesJustHiding. |
| 265 | ** [[spoiler:Oberyn Martell]] and [[spoiler:Robb Stark]] too. |
| 266 | * ToyShip: [[GenerationXerox Arya/Gendry]], [[PrecociousCrush Bran/Meera]], [[PerfectlyArrangedMarriage Trystane/Myrcella]], [[ShipsThatPassInTheNight Rickon/Shireen]]. |
| 267 | * UnconventionalLearningExperience: Many fans of the books and the series lore have learned an awful lot about The Middle Ages, heraldry and medieval warfare and battle tactics by tracking down all the GeniusBonus and DecompositeCharacter featured in it. |
| 268 | * UnintentionallySympathetic: Littlefinger [[spoiler:pushing Lysa Tully out of the moon door]] is very easy to interpret as RapeAndRevenge once you know how the latter essentially forced herself on the former while he was delirious. However, given that Petyr is [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale a man]], combined with multiple other instances of the author considering what are pretty clearly rape scenes as consensual (Jaime and Cersei in the Sept, Dany and Drogo's entire relationship), it's likely GRRM intended Littlefinger's killing to be seen as a KickTheDog moment, or at least [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness disposing of someone he no longer needs]], rather than justified revenge. |
| 269 | * UnpopularPopularCharacter: |
| 270 | ** The number of fans who like [[ButtMonkey Edmure]] [[NiceGuy Tully]] far outstrips the number of in-universe characters who like Edmure Tully. |
| 271 | ** Stannis Baratheon may not have the love of the realm due to his harsh personality, but you would never believe that by the number of loyalist readers who absolutely can't get enough of him. |
| 272 | ** Though many fans certainly despise him, [[SmugSnake Theon Greyjoy]] has a sizeable fandom. |
| 273 | ** Ser Jaime Lannister is almost universally reviled by the people of Westeros for his BodyguardBetrayal of Aerys II, in addition to a number of other horrible crimes and general {{Jerkass}} behavior. For the first two books, fans also had this attitude. When finally became a [[SympatheticPOV P.O.V. character]] and [[SympatheticMurderer the story behind his killing of Aerys was revealed]] during his journeys with Brienne, this completely reversed. While still despised in-universe by all but a few, [[TheAtoner Jaime's additional desire to begin atoning for his other crimes]] has made him one of the most beloved and sympathetic characters in the story. |
| 274 | * VindicatedByHistory: |
| 275 | ** ''A Feast for Crows'' and ''A Dance with Dragons'' were criticized upon release for having unnecessary storylines and character [=POVs=] which dragged the main plot. When the [[Series/GameOfThrones TV adaptation]] reached Season 5, many of these storylines and characters were cut, streamlined, and altered, leading to the most controversial and divisive seasons of the show. Many realized just how intricate Martin's writing really was, since the "butterfly effect" caused by removing and altering these beats radically altered the show and the characters beyond recognition, while also cheapening the verisimilitude for the sake of RuleOfDrama and EasyLogistics which would require viewers to have WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief. As such, fans realized that the seemingly meandering plots written by Martin were indeed important and essential for the WorldBuilding and overall denouement. The fact that new readers came to the books with all five published, and without the long waits in the interim, has also made the reception to these works fare better over time. |
| 276 | ** This especially came true once the TV series was completed. Many readers complained about the insertion of "Aegon" so far along into the story, but his removal in the show led to a lot of problems. The show-runners elected to continue using established character Cersei Lannister as Dany's opponent in Westeros rather than bring in a new character, but the [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen hated and incompetent tyrant]] was obviously not going to be a decent foil for Daenerys, so the [[ContrivedCoincidence narrative had to bend over backwards]] and all of the main characters suddenly made a lot of stupid mistakes for Cersei to continue being a credible threat. In addition, the show tried to pass off Aegon's threat of being the legitimate Targaryen to Jon Snow, despite that character having no interest in the throne, which had the side effect of making Varys looking pointlessly capricious. |
| 277 | * {{Wangst}}: |
| 278 | ** Jon Snow to the point of in-universe AngstDissonance. |
| 279 | ** Jaime Lannister also indulges in this. |
| 280 | ** Brienne falls into this occasionally while dwelling on her troubled past, though it's understandable given her [[AgeAppropriateAngst age]] and doesn't keep her from being one of the kindest characters in the series. |
| 281 | * TheWoobie: [[Woobie/ASongOfIceAndFire Has its own page.]] |
| 282 | * WoobieFamily: Between deaths while giving birth, to being betrayed and slaughtered by their "allies", to being ForcedToWatch all that, and going from riches to absolute rags, the Starks have seen it all. |
| 283 | * {{Woolseyism}}: |
| 284 | ** The measurement systems used in the original English version are normally adapted to equivalent ones used in ancient times by the target language. |
| 285 | ** Other than that, foreign Western translations avoid changing too many of the terms used in the book (e.g. honorifics) and keep them as they are in the English, because Westeros has a distinctly English flavor to it. |
| 286 | ** One particularly botched and narmy attempt at Woolseyism is one of the Russian translations. Calling Winterfell "Zlozim'ye," Dreadfort "Ostrog Uzhasniy" and Casterly Rock "Bobrovyi Utes" (Beaver Rock) (thinking "Casterly" refers to the Latin word for beaver, not to the House of Casterly who built it), yet keeping the Anglo-Saxon sounding names of the characters caused an unpleasant salad of languages. In the most well-known Russian translation, only those place names are translated which are clearly just plain English words, such as "the Twins" or "King's Landing". |
| 287 | ** The Danish translation is slightly better, though very boring. It translates all the names into Danish, but due to there being less Danish words regarding castles, many of them have similar names. Winterfell and Riverrun become Vinterborg and Flodborg respectively, literally "Wintercastle" and "Rivercastle". The Eyrie becomes "the Eagle's Nest" which works, but just makes the other translations seem stupid in comparison. King's Landing becomes "Kingsport", which seems to have been meant to evoke the Danish capital Copenhagen, whose Danish name literally is "Buyersport". |
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