Line #48 WMG/Shrek


1	[[AC:Franchise/{{Shrek}}]]
2
3	[[WMG: Someone who voiced a Disney princess or leading protagonist in a modern animated Disney film will voice someone in Shrek 5]]
4	Harvey Guillen, who played Perrito, played someone in Wish, so its likely the reverse might occur with someone who voiced at Disney would appear in Shrek (Creator/StephanieBeatriz, Creator/MandyMoore, Creator/KristenBell, etc.). They'll likely either be PlayingWithCharacterType where they're voicing another happy jumpy person but is much more deconstructionist than in Disney or PlayingAgainstType (not necessarily a villain but maybe a {{Jerkass}} or just generally a grouchy person).
5
6	[[WMG: Shrek 5 will introduce new fairytale characters that only make recurring background cameos]]
7	Similar to ''WesternAnimation/CloneHigh'', Shrek has always been known for its extensive roster of fairytale characters, from the iconic to the obscure. Shrek 5 might aim to expand this universe even further, introducing fresh faces that pay homage to beloved stories while adding a touch of novelty. The decision to feature new fairytale characters in recurring background cameos serves as a nod to the franchise's rich history. Fans of the series can expect delightful easter eggs, catching glimpses of these characters in various scenes and appreciating the subtle references to classic tales. Introducing new fairytale characters in the background allows for subtle storytelling. Watch closely, and you might notice these characters' minor interactions contributing to the overall narrative without stealing the spotlight.
8
9	[[WMG: Duloc was Beauty and the Beast’s kingdom]]
10	After the Beast was killed or sold to the guards, Farquaad became ruler. The guards could’ve been searching for the Beast’s Enchanted Mirror before finding the Magic Mirror. The Beast may have been sold by the man who obsessively loved Beauty/Belle, whether he was Avenant or Gaston.
11	** The Beast didn't have a magic mirror in the original story; that was a Disney invention. The idea of a rival suitor was also absent from the original tale. Also, The Beast is stated to still be alive and living with Beauty in Far Far Away.
12	[[WMG: Queen Lillian put Fiona’s picture in the Magic Mirror and shipped it to Duloc]]
13	If only Prince Charming could get together with Fiona, how could the Magic Mirror have overlooked that?
14
15	Queen Lillian could have borrowed the Magic Mirror off the Evil Queen, put Fiona’s ad in it and shipped it to Duloc, since she only wanted her daughter saved and had no idea of King Harold’s deal with the Fairy Godmother.
16
17	[[WMG: Duloc was the Snow Queen’s kingdom]]
18	Hence the signature colours being blue and white, both being winter colours.
19
20	Also, after the Snow Queen’s demise, Farquaad became ruler. Heck, his guards may have been looking for the Devil’s Mirror from the original fairytale before they found the Magic Mirror from Snow White.
21
22	Lord Farquaad could have also evicted her from Duloc with the other fairytale characters. The Snow Queen could’ve been sold to his guards by either Kai and Gerda or the grandmother.
23	** The Snow Queen's Kingdom is stated to be far to the north, very cold and isolated; Duloc doesn't fit that. Plus, the Demon Mirror would have been shattered long before and was never known to humans to begin with. Also, Kai, Gerda and the grandmother were not of the kingdom and would have no reason for further enmity with the Snow Queen. Finally, the Snow Queen did not die at the end of her story.
24	[[WMG: The same witch that cursed Fiona also turned Donkey into a Donkey]]
25	If the theory that Donkey was once human is correct, then its likely the same person who cursed Fiona also cursed Donkey. This witch seems to have a thing with turning people into unattractive creatures.
26
27	The reason why the witch made Donkey a donkey fully than Fiona's half curse because she found Donkey more annoying.
28
29	There may be entire groups of once people cursed by that witch.
30
31	[[WMG: It was one of Rumpelstiltskin’s Witches who cursed Fiona]]
32	Rumpel seems to know quite a bit about Fiona’s curse, and HE was the one to point that that “she’s not “all ogre”.”
33
34	[[WMG: Hansel & Gretel will appear in a flashback]]
35	During either a Puss in Boots or Shrek film, Hansel & Gretel will appear in a flashback, possibly similar to Goldie & The Bears as criminals (possibly based on either Bonnie & Clyde or the Kray Twins) who would then have a HeelFaceTurn and decide to run or takeover the honeymoon resort seen in Shrek 2.
36
37
38	[[WMG: This franchise will likely have an [[{{iPhony}} Apple Product Parody]] in their films]]
39	Considering this sequel will be made during the age of the internet, it's likely it have an {{Expy}} of Apple or some other tech company.
40
41	It's likely will based on a pepper based on the "Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers" nursery rhyme since they're both fruits and Peter Piper will be based on some tech ceo.
42
43	* Maybe he’ll have a really strong odor that other characters remark about. You know, a ''Musk''.
44
45
46	[[folder: Shrek 5]]
47	[[WMG: Predictions for the fifth movie]]
48	* It will likely be a sequel rather than a reboot, considering Mike Myers' and Eddie Murphy's involvement in discussing the movie.
49	* Cameron Diaz won't return, and Fiona will be KilledOffForReal prior to the film's events. Her death will be milked for all the tears that it's worth, and the movie will deal with Shrek struggling as a single father.
50	** They would never kill off Fiona, since she's TheHeart of the franchise. But since Diaz is retired, [[TheOtherDarrin they'd have to replace her]] with Creator/HollyFields since she's provided her voice in other media (video games and advertisements) ever since.
51	*** [[https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/cameron-diaz-tonight-show-1234595023/ Diaz has announced she's returning to acting,]] so a recast may no longer be necessary.
52	* The movie will be titled ''Shrek Pleads the Fifth'', to serve the running joke of the pun-based titles.
53	** As the third movie has the word ''Third'' at the end.
54	** And the fourth movie's titled ''[[StealthPun For]]ever After''.
55	* There will be some sort of Trump parody. He’s no longer President and even many of his erstwhile supporters have distanced himself from him, making him a “safer” target for satire now (i.e., less likely to cause controversy or boycotts). He’d fit perfectly into the Shrek universe, what with his vulgarity and ego; he’s basically the real-life Lord Farquaad, with small ''hands'' instead. Or other Trump-esque figures (Elon Musk, Kanye West, Andrew Tate) could get the parody treatment too. This could help the Shrek franchise reclaim its DarkerAndEdgier status, only now, instead of being crass for the sake of it, the film could tackle contemporary social issues, in a similar manner to the ''Knives Out'' films.
56
57	[[WMG: [[Franchise/DragonBall Goku]] will appear in the fifth movie]]
58	Shrek became so powerful in the last installment that Goku is the only fairytale character they could use as a villain.
59	* If they still keep Goku a hero, then it will be like Batman vs Superman.
60
61	[[WMG: The fifth movie will be centered on Donkey]]
62	Based on [[WebVideo/GameTheory MatPat's]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JRDi5m2l-U analysis suggesting]] that Donkey was once a human child brought to [[Literature/TheAdventuresOfPinocchio Pleasure Island]] and transformed into his namesake species. Most notably, Shrek 5 will pick up where the theory left off - Donkey puts the trauma of his past behind him and is thrust into the hero role to finally put an end to the atrocities at Pleasure Island. And of course, Pinocchio is also tied into the story in a major way. With a darker storyline, character development and potentially shocking reveals, it definitely sounds like a new way to reintroduce the classic characters of Shrek.
63
64	[[WMG: Shrek's dad will appear in the fifth film]]
65	He's been living a hermit life ever since the death of his wife and has very little respect for Shrek since he is no longer a real ogre.
66	* If it were possible, Creator/BillMurray will voice him. Since he was previously chosen as the voice of Shrek during production on the first movie.
67
68	[[WMG: Possible Titles for Shrek 5]]
69	Since the third film was named Shrek the Third, and the fourth film was named Shrek Forever After, it is possible for there being titles for Shrek 5.
70
71	* Shrek: The Fifth
72	* Shrek V
73	* Shrek Pleads The Fifth
74	* Shrek 5: [Insert Subtitle Here]
75
76	[[WMG: Possible Future Antagonists that could appear in Shrek 5]]
77	With there being possibilities and predictions for Shrek five, it is possible that there will be future antagonists in the film.
78
79	* A Sorcerer
80	* A Genie
81	* An UsefulNotes/OliverCromwell type Puritan who hates magic not because of FantasticRacism like Farquaad but because he or she views it as Satanic or inherently evil.
82	* [[{{Satan}} The Devil]]
83	* Red Riding Hood (It makes sense since the Big Bad Wolf is one of Shrek's allies) though like Rumpelstiltskin & The Three Bears she would be a different version than the one from the one in Shrek 2.
84	* A Fantastical Version Of The Mafia
85	* There will be some sort of Trump parody. He’s no longer President and even many of his erstwhile supporters have distanced himself from him, making him a “safer” target for satire now (i.e., less likely to cause controversy or boycotts). He’d fit perfectly into the Shrek universe, what with his vulgarity and ego; he’s basically the real-life Lord Farquaad, with small ''hands'' instead. Or other Trump-esque figures (Elon Musk, Kanye West, Andrew Tate) could get the parody treatment too. This could help the Shrek franchise reclaim its DarkerAndEdgier status, only now, instead of being crass for the sake of it, the film could tackle contemporary social issues, in a similar manner to the ''Knives Out'' films.
86	* A BigBadEnsemble like in the Second Puss In Boots Film.
87	* A team-up of all of the previous antagonists.
88	* NoAntagonist - This will be the first Shrek film to deal with an internal conflict or a more complex problem.
89	* The Ice Queen
90	[[/folder]]
91	[[WMG: The first movie will be retroactively refereed to as "The First Chapter".]]
92	* Given the fact ''Forever After'' had the alternative/marketing caption "The Final Chapter", it's no doubt.
93
94	[[WMG: The events of the deleted opening Fiona’s Prologue really did happen and Fiona was adopted into the royal family of Far Far Away.]]
95	King Harold asks Lillian “Who on earth are they?” If she was born to them, he would recognise her by her red hair.
96	** Anyone could have red hair and not recognizing your daughter when she's been turned into an ogre is perfectly understandable.
97
98	[[WMG:The Dragon became a unicorn when Donkey drank the 'happily ever after' potion.]]
99	Or a pegasus, i mean come on what else would she become
100	* Confirmed by Word of God
101	[[WMG: Humpty Dumpty wasn't entirely made of gold.]]
102	He would have been as heavy as or even heavier than the other golden eggs otherwise.
103	[[WMG: Fifi was Rumpel's {{Familiar}}.]]
104	[[WMG: [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Fifi was the mastermind]] behind Rumpel.]]
105	[[WMG: Fifi was [[InterspeciesRomance more than a pet]] to Rumpelstiltskin.]]
106	[[WMG:The reason Shrek's father tried to eat him...]]
107	He was a runt. Listen when he goes to the AU, one of the ogres says he's kind of small. He definitely looks much smaller than the others.
108
109	[[WMG: Dragon was a pink Pegasus Pony (magic potion) during the events of Shrek 2]]
110	She was too "ashamed" to leave her cave, which is way she doesn't come to see her husband as soon as the children are born. The little Donkey-Dragons were more than just a few hours old - at least two days. Or three. Or a week.
111	* More or less confirmed: WordOfGod (s) is that she was a Pegasus.
112
113	[[WMG:If FGM's master plan worked, she would have turned into an ogress and started dating Shrek.]]
114	* Because, why not?
115
116	[[WMG: Shrek's father is also named Shrek]]
117	One of Shrek and Fiona's kids is named Shrek in ''Shrek the Third'', thus explaining its title. If this is the case, then the big guy himself must be Shrek II / the Second. Thus, Shrek's father, he who bathed his son in barbecue sauce and put him to bed with an apple in his mouth, must have been Shrek the First, and perhaps even the one from the book, whose adventures are totally different from Movie Shrek's.
118	* If so then Movie!Shrek must be [[spoiler:royalty]] without knowing it, since in the end of the book [[spoiler:Book!Shrek meets an even uglier ogre princess (Fiona?)]].
119	** Jossed: ''Shrek Forever After'' officially names the children as Fergus, Farkle, and Felicia. Then again, this doesn't sound out-of-context either: maybe Shrek himself could be Shrek the Third, with his father being Shrek the Second, and his grandfather being Shrek the first.
120	*** I think that one is true, mainly because shrek almost becomes king, maybe the title alludes to shrek being "king shrek the third"
121	*** I like to headcanon the possibility that Shrek's father's actual name is Farley.
122
123	[[WMG:Dragon is a transvestite/transgender or is a hermaphrodite]]
124	Donkey only called Dragon a "girl" was because "she" has a feminine appearance. However, considering how things are in the Shrek universe, it's highly possible that (like the Wolf), Dragon simply has a penchant for "dressing up" (in the matter dragons do) like the opposite gender/sex. An alternate possibility is that Dragon is a hermaphrodite (IE: Having both male and female reproductive organs Note: You cannot see a male reptile's...erm...naughty parts without closer inspection) with a feminine personality/appearance. This would explain why "she" was able to have babies.
125	* The Dragon DID look happy that Donkey called "her" a girl, considering the ONLY clues that were given were the facts that "she" appears to be wearing eye-liner and make-up. But, then again, guys in drag can wear make-up too...So...um...yeah...
126	** Wouldn't the half donkey, half dragon babies Joss this?
127	* Since magic exists in this universe, it might be possible for transgender characters to ''fully'' change their biological sex in a way that is impossible in the real world (thus making them able to have babies, if they transitioned to female). At least if they’re rich enough to hire a sufficiently powerful magician; maybe the Wolf and Ugly Stepsisters haven’t done this because don’t have enough money, or maybe they just don’t want to. Still, there’s no real reason to assume ''Dragon'' used to be male, any more than (say) Fiona or one of the other princesses.
128
129	[[WMG: The Fairy Godmother has a body composed of the tears of her charges, with her true self hidden away somewhere else.]]
130	She finds weepy princess-types, then uses the tears and emotion as physical and magical components for setting up her Water(tear)-golem Lich bodies. Shrek 4 or 5 will involve a deformed, swampwater-based Fairy Godmother seeking vengeance for [[spoiler: Charming's "death" in 3, or as close as doesn't matter]] after someone unknowingly drops her SoulJar into Shrek's swamp. And she would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for letting Fiona become a self-reliant dragon-fighting Martial artist. [[spoiler: although she could have been trying to ''prevent'' that, considering the Queen's skills in 3.]]
131	* So, she's like Pain from Franchise/{{Naruto}}?
132	** Sort of jossed, but that doesn't sound like a bad plot either.
133
134	[[WMG: Shrek 3 was simply a combination of bedtime stories told to the kids]]
135	The kids had gotten a little older and demanded bedtime stories from Fiona, Shrek and Donkey, all in different rooms. The three can -just- hear each other, but the kids can't. They build stories based on each other's wild mass improv. This theory explains the low quality of the third film; it was just a mish-mash created by the characters' improv and the kid's demands of the stories. "And then, and then, and then there was a shipwreck! And the captain was never seen again! And Rapunzel stinks!"
136	* So, Shrek 3 was written by Tropers on the WMG page? ...Makes sense to me!
137
138	[[WMG: Shrek Goes Fourth will be about one of Shrek & Fiona's kids going through the original story]]
139	One of their kids wants to become one of Myth/KingArthur's knights (double-{{Aesop}} points if it's his daughter Felicia) and Shrek is deeply uncomfortable with it, given that knights are usually trying to kill him and/or are Prince Charming.
140	* But Why would Shrek or Fiona be unsupportive of that, they seem to be on pretty good terms with Arthur.
141	** Because A) Knights are always trying to kill Shrek, and B) Arthur might turn out to be a boorish jerk once he gets a taste of kingly power, gets vengeance upon the jocks (including, most likely, [[DefeatMeansFriendship Defeat Means]] [[TheStarscream Subordinance]] by Launcelot) and cheerleaders, and spends a few years drinking mead, feasting on food, and questing for Cool Stuff. Depending on how [[WhatdoYouMeanItsNotForKids not-for-kids]] they want the fourth movie to be, it could even take place after [[LoveTriangle Launcelot takes Guinevere]], and Shrek and Fiona try to distance themselves and the kids from the resulting mess of tyranny and jerkishness.
142
143	[[WMG: Neither Farquaad kissing Fiona at their wedding nor Prince Charming kissing Fiona at the ball would have worked to keep her human.]]
144	Both Fiona's original curse and the "Happily Ever After" potion specify that it has to be TRUE LOVE'S kiss that breaks the spell (curse)/keeps the spell permanent (potion). Fiona and Farquaad were marrying each other out of convenience, not love, so that one's obvious. But I don't think Charming's kiss would have worked either, since if Fiona had taken the potion, she would have been magically induced into falling in love with Charming. That doesn't count as "true" love.
145	* Actually, Fiona believed Farquaad ''was'' Charming (she wasn't aware of the real one we see in ''2'')- so it wasn't marriage out of convenience.
146	** But that wouldn't have made a difference, Fiona didn't love Farquaad and Farquaad didn't love Fiona.
147
148	[[WMG: It was Fairy Godmother who cast the curse on Fiona.]]
149	Fiona says in the first movie that it was a "witch," but how hard do you think it would be for the FG to disguise herself?
150	* They actually do hint at this in the second film. Since it was FG who turned King Harold [[spoiler: into a human after Lillian fell in love with him as the Frog Prince]], he figured he owed her a favor, so they set up a GambitRoulette so that Fiona and Charming would wed as soon as he got to the tower (but as we all know, Shrek beat him to the punch) - the Roulette is even more played into the theory as Fiona actually had no idea about Harold's plan beyond sending her away to the tower - which she calls school in her girlhood diary.
151	** She also has the dragon to eat potential rescuers and take the fall when Prince Charming does arrive.
152	** All that is certainly in line with [[TheFairFolk traditional fairies]].
153	** An ogre might just be a cross between a human and a [[spoiler: frog]].
154
155	[[WMG: Ogres are part frog, part human.]]
156	Since Fiona's father was a frog despite his human form he still carries frog genes as such Fiona's true form is that of an Ogre her "cure" was actually Fairy Godmother's blessing as it allowed her to have a normal childhood as a human during the day but due to either the Fairy Tale nature of the Fairy Godmother's magic or as an EvilPlan to take control over Far Far Away the "curse" would turn her into the form closest to her true love with their first kiss.
157	* Fiona's 'true form' is not an ogre. She is born a human, but cursed to ''become'' an ogre at night. She takes on the form of an ogre after kissing Shrek, because - well. "Take love's true form", anyone?
158	* Also, dude, punctuation is your friend.
159
160	[[WMG:Prince Charming is Artie's Father]]
161	They both have similar hair styles, and are both royalty. So it is possible that Artie is both Charming's son, and Fiona's cousin (yet still have Charming be able to legally marry Fiona) if Fiona's mother had a sister who married Prince Charming (making Charming not biologically-related to Fiona). This may also mean that Charming's real name is Uther Pendragon (the real King Arthur's father).
162	** Not only that, but check out the characters' movements/facial expressions when Charming starts to cry in the beginning of the movie, and Artie pretends to cry to get Merlin to help. They ''do'' look very eerily similar, almost a frame-for-frame copy.
163	** But wait........[[{{Squick}} FIONA WANTED TO MARRY CHARMING IN THE FIRST MOVIE]]!!!!!
164	*** So? It's not like incest is anything new to royalty. Or maybe Artie is just related to Fiona on his mother's side.
165	*** Well, not exactly incest, but inbreeding did definitely happen in royal families. I recall in middle school science class during a unit on genetics that this may have been a contributing factor to the prominence of hemophilia in the House of Hanover.
166	** Both Artie and Prince Charming also give pretty long speeches to people. I'm thinking of Charming give his speech at the Poison Apple bar and Artie's speeches at his school and at the stage play.
167	** More likely, Charming and Arthur are half-brothers with the same father--they're too close in age to be father and son. This would explain why Charming's a prince in the first place.
168	*** I dunno, Prince always have me a vibe of like "taken-care-of-himself"-30s. And I could see him messing around with girls as a teenager,being saddled with a little secret Mother didn't want to get out, so FGM was the one paying for his schooling.
169	*** Charming may look young but he likely got transformed from his middle aged or elderly self into a young adult. I think he may have had platonic sex w/ Lillian's sister resulting in Arthur being born unless they married & then got divorced. Plus, the term "prince" originally referred to a ruler during the classical era & Medieval Times (when the franchise takes place) till the end of the latte area when their territories were smaller than those of emperors or kings.
170	** Arthur's father is stated to be Lillian's brother, so that pretty much josses this theory, unless Lillian just didn't recognize her own brother.
171
172	[[WMG: The fourth movie will include many swipes at ComicBook/OneMoreDay]]
173	The plot seems to match up too well to not do it. Given that the owner of their main competition also owns Marvel now...
174
175	[[WMG: Sleeping Beauty suffers from narcolepsy.]]
176	The RealLife condition where you keep falling asleep all of a sudden. Obvious, isn't it?
177	* Narcolepsy doesn't work like that.
178
179	[[WMG: The fourth movie will not be the last Shrek movie, though it is being set up as such.]]
180	Just had to put it out there...
181	* It depends if you count WesternAnimation/PussInBoots as a Shrek movie or not...
182	** Technically, it's a prequel centering on Puss' past.
183
184	[[WMG: The fourth movie will be the last Shrek movie, but ''not'' the last Shrek 'Verse movie.]]
185	The fifth movie will be subtitled "A New Book/Story", both breaking the [[NumberedSequels Numbered]] {{Oddly Named Sequel}}s and referencing that it's no longer Shrek's story. It will star either one of Shrek's children (as guessed above), the characters of the alternate FFA fighting against the rise of Rumplestiltskin or another villain, or Shrek's father [[WMG/{{Shrek}} from the book]] (who, in a montage at the end of the film, will have and enjoy having a kid but {{Wangst}} about having to give him up by ogre law, and will act like an AlwaysChaoticEvil ogre so Shrek doesn't feel so bad about being abandoned).
186	** Confirmed, however none of these scenarios are the setting for the next film. It will star Puss in Boots and chronicle his backstory before ''Shrek 2''.
187
188	[[WMG: Shrek's very existence somehow caused the near-genocide of his species.]]
189	In the main version of the story, you never see the dozens of other ogres (who would have no reason to hide, what with Shrek's reputation from the first film, him being one of the smallest full-grown ogres, and a distinct lack of King Rumplestiltskin). The only time they appear outside of the ItsAWonderfulPlot is in the after-film dance party, which is evidenced by Harold's living portrait to be as non-canon as FFA Idol from the second film (if he could be brought back to life after the beginning of the third film, or was still alive in picture form, it wouldn't have been such a big thing when he croaked [and then subsequently died], and Lillian would have to be at least a little batty [[[ThereWasADoor wall-induced]] brain damage, maybe?] to be acting that way toward a BroadStrokes version of her husband).
190
191	[[WMG: Donkey was a jester cursed into being a donkey.]]
192	This in no way conflicts with him being the donkey from the Bremen Town musicians. It does explain why he's got such a memory for songs and (although it needs no explanation) why he acts like such a fool (no pun intended). He may, in fact, [[TheFogOfAges have been a jester in the court of the king and queen of Faerie]], [[ContinuationFic after]] [[Theatre/AMidsummerNightsDream Oberon went back to fetch that funny ass Titania had made of the mortal and turned him all the way into a Donkey]].
193	** Donkey isn't intelligent enough to be a jester. Court jesters, contrary to popular belief, were actually brilliant(and careful!) satirists who [[ObfuscatingStupidity acted under the guise of foolishness]] in order to criticize the king without being executed. Now does that sound like Donkey to y-...[[FridgeBrilliance Wait.]]
194
195	[[WMG: Donkey is Bottom, from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream.]]
196	The spell that was placed on Bottom to make his head look like a donkey's slowly started to effect his whole body, so he ended up looking like a donkey.
197
198	[[WMG: AU!Fiona did not free herself from the tower, Rumpels did it]]
199	No matter how twisted the contract is, it is still a contract. And you always get what you were promised in it. In this case, the royals of Far Far Away got the freedom of Fiona from the tower. Rumpelstitskin's intervention probably consisted on getting rid of the lava and the dragon (hence why none of them are there when Shrek and AU!Donkey go there later and why Dragon is Rupelstitskin's captive/property in the final act of the movie), thus making Fiona able to escape the tower. Since she had no way to know about the contract, she came to the conclusion that she liberated herself.
200
201	[[WMG: In the ''Shrek Forever After'' alternate timeline, Charming was killed attempting to rescue Fiona.]]
202	Shrek beat Charming to the dragon-guarded castle by less than a few months, and Fairy Godmother wanted to keep Fiona there at least until her son arrived. Since Charming didn't rescue her, and neither Charming nor his mother appear in ''Forever After'', something went seriously wrong with their plan. The easiest way Rumpel could assure his throne, removing what would have been dangerous competition in the form of the Fairy Godmother (backed by Charming and Fiona), would be to somehow make sure Charming failed. Devastated by the loss of her son, Fairy Godmother would no longer be a threat.
203	* Or Charming simply had no reason to save Fiona once Far Far Away was signed over to Rumple.
204
205	[[WMG: Duloc was the Wicked Queen's kingdom.]]
206	After the Wicked Queen's death, Farquaad becomes ruler. This would explain how they got hold of the Mirror.
207	* The Evil Queen is alive during Shrek the Third. It's more likely that Farquaad just kicked her out along with the other Fairy Tale characters.
208	** She may have been sold to Farquaad by Snow White’s father, the King (the previous ruler of Duloc before Farquaad).
209	* This troper likes to think it was the Evil Queen’s Fairy Godmother who gave them the Magic Mirror, thus making her the GreaterScopeVillain of the Shrek franchise.
210	** Or Duloc could have always been Farquaad's and not just a place he stole from someone else.
211	[[WMG: In Shrek 4, there were at least ''three'' other ways Rumpelstiltskin could've gotten an easy victory if he'd learned more of Shrek's history.]]
212	In the movie, he takes the day Shrek was born because it's the quickest, easiest solution to reach his goal - Fiona isn't rescued in time to prevent Harold and Lilian from taking his deal, and once the day he gave Shrek ends, he'll be erased for good, "locking in" the new timeline. But if he'd been able to think it through, Rumpelstiltskin would've realized there was at least one other day he could have taken away that would have caused plenty of problems - one that Shrek, not realizing the potential danger of doing so, jokingly brought up: the day he met Donkey.
213
214	Think about it - the day Shrek and Donkey met was also the day (or night as the case was) he started his trek to Duloc. So, Shrek wouldn't have been able to start the first movie's quest until after that day, meaning that even if he still manages to become friends with Donkey and the plot still turns out almost exactly as it did in the movie, the damage would be done. Delaying Shrek's quest by even a single day, while still ''technically'' fulfilling his end of the bargain with Harold and Lilian, means Rumplestiltskin still succeeds because it took them until the last second to receive the news of Fiona's rescue in the "normal" timeline.
215
216	As a result, Far Far Away would turn into what we saw in the alternate timeline in 4 anyway, but with differences. The most likely chain of events in this timeline goes like this:
217
218	Shrek and Donkey ''still'' become friends even if ''that'' particular day was "passed over" not only because they'd both still exist, but because Donkey would've been sent to Shrek's swamp regardless - Farquadd would still want to get rid of all the magical creatures in Duloc, after all - and even in the fourth movie's alternate reality, Donkey ''still'' becomes friends with him despite the circumstances the moment Shrek displayed vulnerability. All it would've done is change how and where they met, and considering his good nature, Donkey would've probably ''still'' sensed Shrek was a JerkWithAHeartOfGold and attached himself to the ogre even if he hadn't saved him from Farquadd's soldiers, and still offered to take him to Duloc to meet Farquadd when he asked for directions, meaning they'd ''still'' have gone on the quest, successfully freed Fiona from the tower, and broken her curse with True Love's Kiss.
219
220	However, the key difference here is that with no reason to visit Far Far Away (the only reason they even went there in the first place is because Fiona's parents summoned them there shortly after hearing of her rescue), they'd stay in the swamp living their happily ever after, meaning that so long as Rumpelstiltskin sets things in place to ensure they'd never find out about his takeover of Far Far Away, he could rule unopposed.
221
222	The ''only'' reason he doesn't take this option is that his single-minded focus on getting rid of Shrek permanently ''completely'' blinds him to any knowledge about his actual history, and the one person - or rather, the ''lord''- he should ''actually'' be targeting to create a "perfect" timeline where he'd ''unquestionably'' win.
223
224	You see, while the person who gives up a day via his contracts temporarily ceases to exist during the traded day, he himself still does. If the elf were smart and realized he could use the delay he'd created by taking the day Shrek and Donkey met to go to Duloc on the "lost" day and offer Farquadd a deal that would make him king of Duloc and remove all the fairytale creatures in his kingdom, conned him into signing his life away the same way he cons Shrek in the "real" timeline by offering to make his problems "disappear", or even simply managed to convince him to send the fairytale creatures he'd rounded up somewhere ''other'' then Shrek's swamp, the damage would be done. After all, the ''only'' reason Shrek went on the quest to save Fiona in the first place is because Farquadd forced a gaggle of fairytale creatures to live in his swamp, ticking the ogre off enough to go directly to him and complain, and Farquadd, wanting to rescue Fiona to become king without risking his own life, took advantage of the situation by offering to move them somewhere else if Shrek saved her for him. Without Farquadd and the fairytale creatures ruining his seclusion, Shrek would've happily stayed in his swamp forever, leaving the elf to rule Far Far Away completely unhindered.
225
226	Luckily, this never happened, because while Rumpelstiltskin ''is'' cunning and extremely clever, he's not ''quite'' as smart as he ''thinks'' he is. By focusing solely on Shrek's rescue of Fiona (and taking the most obvious, seemingly foolproof route to prevent it), he completely neglects to learn anything else about him. Even though he's knowledgeable enough about Fiona to twist Shrek's wording against him to invoke LoopholeAbuse and ExactWords to keep her imprisoned in the movie's alternate timeline (as he points out, Shrek's request was for him to free "all ogres", and since she's still under her shapeshifting curse, she's not "''all'' ogre" and doesn't count), his response to Shrek's joke about taking the day he and Donkey met is a confused "I don't know who that is," even though he should ''already'' be well aware of Donkey and his crucial role in Shrek's story - after all, it's widely-known, public information by the time he makes his move. But when you stop and consider the fact that he's laser-focused on Shrek and Fiona, it makes sense that he wouldn't give attention to anyone else. Rumplel's obsession with Shrek and Fiona ultimately leads to his defeat - because he doesn't know about Donkey or his relationship with Shrek, he unwittingly creates a SpannerInTheWorks (as the only reason AU!Donkey learned how to reveal his contract's hidden exit clauses was because he picked up the trick during his time spent forced to serve Rumpel's own witches). If he'd actually done his homework on Shrek's history, gone after Donkey instead, and taken advantage of reliving the past with future knowledge, he'd've effectively ''won.'' Scary.
227
228
229	* Another problem can arise if the only reason Shrek's memory remains unaltered in the fourth movie is that he's an outsider in the timeline due to Rumpel having taken the day he was born. If Rumpel took the day Donkey met Shrek, it could have made Shrek completely forget his friendship with Donkey, and without knowledge of his and Donkey's friendship, he wouldn't have sought Donkey out. Which, funnily enough, completely changes the events of the fourth movie in Rumple's favor, as Donkey is a key element in saving Shrek at least twice, and maybe three times. So if any of the possible futures mentioned above happened, it would've ended with the events being stuck as an AU, if Donkey hadn't been there to help Shrek. It shows how important Donkey and Shrek's friendship is. And to think ''Shrek'' was the one who suggested that day! Luckily, Rumple was more focused on writing Shrek out of existence and didn't even know who Donkey was. Otherwise, most of the alternate timelines I can think of actually give Rumple a better chance of winning. Granted, it is impossible to say how exactly things would have ended. It just shows you how much of an effect a single day can have.
230	** I don’t think Shrek’s memory would be overwritten. RippleEffectProofMemory exists as a trope for a reason.
231	* Wow. This is awesome. This not only shows just how important a day can be, but also how important one friendship can be for altering history. Excellent theory.
232	* All very good points. This theory really brings a new perspective to Rumpelstiltskin's response to Shrek's joke about erasing the day he and Donkey met.
233
234
235	[[WMG: The new movie about Puss in Boots will not be set anywhere near Far Far Away.]]
236	Look at the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxL43SircA teaser trailer]] and you'll see that the humans look slightly cartoonier than in the previous films. Either we're in a different country in the Shrek universe, or the movie is about another of Puss's nine lives and we might not be in the Shrek universe at all.
237	* They look the same to me. The only difference I see, is that they're much more Hispanic. So I think it takes place in Spain, and that can be seen in the theory below.
238
239	[[WMG: Shrek takes place in England, Scotland, and Ireland, while Puss in Boots takes place in Spain]]
240	It makes sense, since Shrek has a Scottish accent, so he could be in a swamp in Scotland. Far Far Away could be in England, and based off of the architecture in Puss In Boots, PIB probably takes place in Spain.
241	* One of the girls in the second film, when Shrek becomes human, asks if his name is European, so it does make sense if the movies don't take place on the mainland.
242
243	[[WMG: All of the fairy tale folk not seen in later movies were killed by the villains]]
244	That's why we don't see them anymore.
245	Alternatively....
246
247	[[WMG: They are in Snow White's Prince's Kingdom]]
248	When Snow White’s Prince (I call him Prince Maximus) goes to Shrek’s swamp to kiss Snow White awake, he notices the fairytale characters there and invites them to live in his kingdom, and he lets them go back to the swamp for Shrek and Fiona’s wedding. While Shrek’s friends go to live in Far Far Away in the sequels, the rest of them from the first film are still in Prince Maximus’s kingdom.
249
250	[[WMG: If there is a sequel to Puss and Boots it will be based on the original Puss and Boots story]]
251	The spin-off film was just an origin story explaining how he became a hero and got his boots, and why he is Spanish. If their is a sequel it will have him venturing out of San Ricardo with Kitty Softpaws and finding themselves in a Far Far Away type kingdom tormented by an evil shapeshifting ogre.
252	* Jossed. Not only sequel has a different plot, but also takes place ''after'' ''Shrek Forever After''.
253
254	[[WMG: A Puss in Boots sequel will feature a plot inspired by a princess tale like ''WesternAnimation/{{The Little Mermaid\|1989}}'']]
255	The villain will be a female who is a queen or a witch trying to take over the kingdom (possibly Far Far Away).
256	* Jossed, the sequel focuses on the [[WishUponAShootingStar wishing star]].
257
258	[[WMG: The Fairy Godmother is an impostor, and is actually the Wicked Fairy of Sleeping Beauty]]
259	The Fairy Godmother acts nothing like her storybook counterpart should. Now, while this may seem reasonable considering the Fractured Fairytale nature of Shrek, note that most of the characters have distinctive traits of their archetypes. The Fairy Godmother's spells all have some catch to them--Harold became human at the cost of giving his daughter, and with her, the crown to Charming. Many of the trapped princesses are in towers, and Charming believes that Fiona is a sleeping beauty until he figures out she's actually an ogress. The Fairy Godmother's eye color and the eye color of her portraits are different--she has blue eyes, her images have brown eyes. When Shrek takes Happily-Ever-After Potion, his eyes stay the same. This difference in eye color between the Fairy Godmother and her portraits, combined with the Fairy Godmother's magic and personality, may mean that the "fairy godmother" we see in the film is an impostor--the Wicked Fairy, who took the place of the real Fairy Godmother to take control over Far Far Away.
260
261	Alternatively, she could be one of the following 3 in disguise:
262	** The Evil fairy from Beauty and the Beast,
263	** Ursula from the Little Mermaid
264	Or
265	** The witch from the Frog Prince.
266
267	If the Fairy Godmother IS Sleeping Beauty’s Wicked Fairy, then probably.........
268
269	** The Fairy Godmother is not Cinderella's Fairy Godmother, but a completely separate character who is stated to be the evil twin of Cinderella's Fairy Godmother.
270
271	[[WMG: Prince Charming is Caradoc from the Sleeping Beauty ballet]]
272
273	[[WMG: Charming's father died (Possibly like a knight by dragon or monster) or travelled to an alternate dimension.]]
274	The former comes from the fact that he's never seen, unless this is a case of there's always one parent in fairy tales.
275	The latter comes from the fact that Charming is called Junior at times by Godmother. I assume that his father either still died, or traveled to Disney's Cinderella's dimension while Godmother was pregnant and married Cinderella.
276
277	[[WMG: A Puss in Boots sequel would be DarkerAndEdgier than the first film.]]
278	The Puss we saw in Shrek 2 was much more hardened, killing ogres for money. Obviously something big happened to him between the first Puss in Boots film and Shrek 2.
279	* He wasn't really all that hardened. It didn't take a whole lot to convince him that Shrek didn't actually deserve to die. For all we know, the king probably made Puss think that Shrek was a traditional, evil ogre. Puss stopped trying to kill Shrek almost as soon as Shrek showed even slight kindness. Doesn't sound like a hardened criminal to me, more like somebody was mislead to think that somebody else was evil.
280	** Semi-jossed, semi-confirmed. The sequel is indeed DarkerAndEdgier than the first film, but follows a different story than the one posted above.
281
282	[[WMG: Shrek actually does eat people]]
283	All those eyes in the jars you see lying around have to come from ''somewhere''.
284	* Pretty sure those eyes belong to snails.
285
286	[[WMG: Fiona is actually this universe's [[WesternAnimation/BeautyAndTheBeast Belle]]]]
287	They have the same bangs, and there's no other Beauty and the Beast characters present, except for a small cameo by Cogsworth and Lumiere in Shrek 2. In the third movie, Belle is not a part of Fiona's group of princess friends, even though every other princess is there, even an ugly stepsister. This whole story is basically just a retelling of Beauty and the Beast. Except, this time they end up Beast-Beast instead of Beauty-Beauty.
288	** A couple problems: Belle is not a princess on her own so until she married her Beast Fiona would have no reason to know her (Every person at Fiona's baby shower had a reason to know her, even Doris was friendly with Shrek and Puss and was Cinderella's step-sister) and the Beauty and the Best story is set much closer to present day than the others so it likely just hasn't happened yet.
289	** And this troper figured they never included Belle in Fiona's princess friends because she was already a capable, intelligent princess while Snow White, Cinderella, Sleep Beauty, and Rapunzel were meek and spoilt and so contrasted with Fiona and got some CharacterDevelopment.
290	*** This troper started thinking about this and came up with Belle “turning traitor” instead of Rapunzel, with her twist being that she looks down on everyone, but then her double twist would be that she WASN’T evil and was siding with Charming because she related to him due to both being outcasts. And at the end, she could be the one, instead of Artie, to convince the villains to stop being villains and Charming’s love for her would get him to redeem himself too.
291	** Actually, Belle and the Beast DO exist in the Shrek universe. Belle has a glittering palace in Far Far Away, while the Beast has a kennel.
292
293	[[WMG: Between the time of the WesternAnimation/PussInBoots Movie and Shrek 2, Kitty Softpaws was killed by an ogre]]
294	Puss was claimed to be the only one willing to personally go after Ogre bounties in the tavern King Harold goes to, since he has a vendetta towards them after losing her. He was brooding and bad-ass like any other mercenary when first given the job, but soon realized that Shrek isn't like other ogres. That's why he quickly [[DefeatMeansFriendship warms up to him]] and helps him out through the second half of the movie. Maybe even letting go of a grudge towards the ogre race because an evil one killed his love interest.
295	* Jossed, as shown in ''The Last Wish''.
296	[[WMG: If there is a ''Puss In Boots 2'', it may be about Puss finding his family]]
297	In the scene where Puss first meets Shrek and Donkey, he begins to talk about his family. He could easily be lying, but this Troper doesn't think so.
298	* Jossed.
299
300	[[WMG: Shrek shares the same universe as WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon]]
301	Both films are owned by Dreamworks, and both have dragons in them. "Shrek" and "How to Train Your Dragon" also both depict the characters in some sort of Medieval setting.
302
303	[[WMG: Shrek, Donkey, and some others may return]]
304	The Shrek franchise was big, so we can just assume that our favourite ogre and his pals may at least make [[TheCameo cameos]] somewhere (like the possible sequel of the Puss in Boots movie, or another Creator/DreamworksAnimation film).
305	* [[spoiler: Confirmed! Not only ''Puss in Boots'' got a [[WesternAnimation/PussInBootsTheLastWish sequel]] but said sequel also featured SequelHook that teases ''Shrek 5''.]]
306
307	[[WMG:Dragon is the LastOfHerKind]]
308	Ever notice that there have been no other dragons in the series thus far? This could explain why she was so welcoming of Donkey and then saddened by his initial rejection. She's [[TheWoobie been alone for so long]] that she wanted someone, ''anyone'', to be her companion/mate, regardless of species.
309
310	[[WMG: [[TrulySingleParent The Fairy Godmother created Charming with magic]].]]
311	It doesn't seem unheard of as she seems to have an extensive amount of magical abilities. Once Lillian gave birth to a daughter, Fairy Godmother used a spell to impregnate herself with a son, or just created a baby out of thin air, to marry Fiona and become king so that she could one day rule as his mother. It explains why we never see his father, he doesn't have one!
312
313	[[WMG: Duloc is the Shrek equivalent of a Third World Dictatorship.]]
314	Its pretty clear that Farquaad is an authoritarian, not to mention his extreme Cleanliness and rules are similar to those of real life Authoritarians. Not to mention his banners and his potential Cult of Personality (All the Farquaad related Merchandise and imagery). The removal of Fairy Tale creatures is similar to Ethnic cleansing. Now, compare all of this to Far Far Away, which doesn't seem as strict, and the leaders are popular, but not nearly as venerated as Farquaad. There also is much more freedom in Far Far Away than in Duloc. So to sum up, Far Far Away is a better place to live overall and could be a great power, while Duloc is a Third World Dictatorship that is trying to get noticed by the other states by becoming a Kingdom, and with Farquaad gone, who knows what will happen.
315
316	[[WMG: A headcanon to where Donkey came from.]]
317	* If you piece these parts from each movie together, Donkey was previously owned by old [=MacDonald=], as implied in ''Forever After'' before the old lady from the first movie. One day, [=MacDonald=] sold Donkey for magic beans, as mentioned in ''Shrek 2''.
318
319	[[WMG: Donkey is Lampwick from Pinocchio]]
320	He just lost all memory of who he was when he was human.
321
322	[[WMG: Mama Bear from the first film Faked her Death]]
323	Why she appears alive and well in "Shrek and the Swamp Karaoke dance party"? she sneaks out of Farquaad's castle and she makes a rug version of herself and added it into Farquaad's room, thinking his men skinned her and gave it to him as a present.
324
325	[[WMG: Faarquad is half dwarf.]]
326	He has externalized his self-consciousness about his dwarven height into a literal FantasticRacism, hence his hatred for fairy tale creatures.
327	* Confirmed (only in the musical's canon, though), where he is the son of Princess Pea (a HUMAN princess) and Grumpy from Disney's Snow White.
328
329	[[WMG:[[AscendedFanon Shrek will eat]] [[{{WebVideo/SuperMarioLogan}} cheesecake]] in the next movie.]]
330
331	[[WMG:Donkey's real name isn't actually "Donkey".]]
332	[[Creator/WilliamSteig His true birth name is]] {{Literature/Sylvester\|AndTheMagicPebble}}.
333
334	[[WMG:Donkey is from near [[Literature/TheBremenTownMusicians Bremen]] ]]
335	[=IE=], he would be the Donkey that would join the Bremen Town Musician animals, but never got a chance in the Shrek-verse (or will go on to be). He's musical, he's on the older side, he's had a rough life, and he's a donkey, the leading animal of the Musicians.
336
337	[[WMG:Shrek was originally human too but wanted to be free of the responsibilities and norms of human society.]]
338	When Shrek transforms into a human form, that's his original form. Having his own private home out in the swamp, he was content with being a legendary Ogre until Fiona became a part of his life. His story of how he decided to leave his humanity behind might be very dramatic.
339	* Everything he says and does would indicate he was born an ogre.
340	* Perhaps he was affected with AlternateIdentityAmnesia and the result was just like above. We may never know proof positive.
341
342	[[WMG: The world of Shrek is some kind of post-apocalyptic world]]
343	Despite the medieval-esque setting of the films, there are constant references to pop and modern culture, including the actual Joan Rivers being around. At some point, a cataclysm wiped out much of the modern world while simultaneously [[TheMagicCameBack bringing various fairytale elements into existence]] and the people tried to rebuild society as best they could, leading a world that's an odd mix of modern and pre-modern culture.
344
345	[[WMG: Far Far Away functions on HeirClubForMen and doesn't allow women to rule alone.]]
346	Part of Charming's motivation for wanting to marry Fiona was to become king. When Harold was dying, he specifically said Fiona ''and'' Shrek were next-in-line rather than just Fiona. Supplementary material reveals Harold became King of Far Far Away by marrying Lillian, yet she didn't continue ruling after he died. Comparatively, Arthur was able to ascend the throne alone.
347
348	[[WMG: The Fairy Godmother wanted to be the power behind the throne]]
349	That's why she was pushing so hard for Charming to marry Fiona; once Harold died, Charming would be king and since he such a huge MommasBoy and not particularly bright, he'd probably do whatever his mother said, allowing the Fairy Godmother to essentially rule Far Far Away.
350	** Confirmed in the Shrek Forever After video game, where Rumpelstiltskin makes a deal with her where she brings Shrek to her, in exchange for being his “Queen For A Week”, which she says is “something she always wanted”.
351

Context WMG / Shrek