Line #87 WMG/OzTheGreatAndPowerful


1	[[WMG: Finley will later work for the Wicked Witch Of The West]]
2	Finley owes a life debt to Oz because he saves his life but everyone who read or saw The Wizard Of Oz knows the Wizard doesn't have a winged monkey servant. Then it hit me: Oz didn't save Finley. Technically... Theodora did (by urging Oz to do something when he would have done nothing). And if Finley finds that out, he is bound to serve Theodora. Look at the baboon type winged monkeys we see in this [[http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130310185046/disney/images/e/e8/Winged-baboon-disney-s-oz-the-great-and-powerful.jpg film.]] Now look at the monkeys we see in the 1939 film, particularly the single monkey the witch seems to almost always be talking [[http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Uvra78JrqOk/U7n16DUIEaI/AAAAAAAAMTI/b4tEPk5gw5g/s1600/wizard_of_oz_1188_flying_monkey_and_toto.jpg to.]] It looks an awful lot like Finley.
3	[[WMG: Evanora is the witch who possesses [[Series/TinMan Azkadellia]]]]
4
5	Evanora's true form is a hag; the witch's true form in Tin Man is a hag, and they both hold true command over the flying baboons. she also possesses someone of a similar physical type as her disguised form.
6
7	[[WMG: Oz is also [[Theatre/TheMusicMan Proffeser Harold Hill]]]]
8	So in this alternate universe the tornado hits another part of Kansas. This allows Oz to escape in the balloon. From the days experiences he has an epiphany and learns 4 main points
9	1. Get out of circuses, they only lead to trouble.
10	2. If i'mgoing to seduce someone don't use the music box trick
11	3. I still need an assistant but they don't need to be smart
12	4. I need to travel far enough away from Kansas that they don't know my face and my disgrace but still in naive Midwestern areas.
13	So using whatever money he has left in his bag he starts travelling around the mid west as a travelling salesman. (As for why he ages about 20years in 5 or so years lets call it magic).
14
15	[[WMG: Locasta, Mombi, and Langwidere will appear in any sequels]]
16
17	[[WMG: Evanora and [[Franchise/StarWars Emperor Palpatine]] are related]]
18
19	They both shoot lightning out of their hands.
20
21	They're also related to [[Film/HocusPocus Winifred]].
22
23	[[WMG: Ozma is/will be the daughter of Glinda and Oz]]
24
25	Ozma is the daughter of the ruler of Oz. In these films, that was Glinda. Perhaps Ozma will be born to Glinda and Oz.
26	* Alternatively, Ozma is the youngest sister of the four witches who was vanished by Mombi before the events of the movie.
27	* Though the book's canon, (which was later retconned, the books are infamous for inconsistancy) stated that when Oz arrived he overthrew Ozma's Father, sent the baby Ozma to Mombi, and took over Oz for himself. But since Baum seemed to have abandoned that plotline after a while I think it's all open to interpretation of what really went on. Meaning this movie could be a true prequel to the books.
28
29	[[WMG: Glinda is TheChessmaster in this movie too]]
30	She has precognition; seen in her comment that "scarecrows can be important" even before Oz's plan to use them as a decoy army. She even knew his "fake balloon" plan; but is a better actor than even Oz is. She deliberately misinterpreted the prophecy because she knew people expectations would lead to certain events. She needed Oz to keep the wicked witches at bay until Dorothy could arrive.
31
32	[[WMG:Theodora's good side lives on.]]
33	It's doubtful that the Wizard would forgive himself for what he inadvertently did to Theodora. The movie shows that he didn't completely give up on her, so it's rather strange that 14 years later he would send Dorothy to coldly dispose of her. The answer? He does find a way to redeem Theodora before Dorothy arrives.
34
35	The Wicked Witch of the West is not really Theodora, but a soulless shell of her, beyond redemption -- it's only that the Wizard doesn't know it yet. When he does, he will find a way to reincarnate her good soul into an infant girl named... Ozma. (Hey, this way, she's still technically the late King's daughter!) Only to lose her later to Mombi, which leaves both him and Glinda heartbroken -- and distanced from each other, setting the stage for both ''Wonderful Wizard'' and ''Marvelous Land''.
36	* There's a decent fanfic based on this theory: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9089514/1/The-Reborn-Princess-of-Oz.
37	** Yes, well... OP here: I first wrote the theory on TV Tropes and then wrote the fanfic based on it. :)
38	* Memory erasure and transformation IS the book solution to "reforming" villains.
39	* I like this theory, but it makes more sense if Theodora's soul was reincarnated in the real world as Dorothy. This explains their similar names, and makes Dorothy's journey to kill the witch in the book all the more awesome: she wasn't sent on a fool's errand by a humbug, but on a necessary journey journey of self-redemption by a wise savior. In other words, in order to find happiness, she must defeat her own evil side. Finally, remember that Dorothy deeply desired to return home in the original book, but in the later books, she permanently moved to Oz: she was actually subconsciously desiring to live in Oz all along, because Oz was her original home when she was Theodora.
40	** (OP) Wow, that's even better than the Ozma theory. Wish I thought of that. Small nitpick, though: in the world of OTGAP (and the books), Oz isn't any less real than Kansas, so the "real world" qualifier is unnecessary. It's not the 1939 movie, where it was AllJustADream.
41	** This theory is FridgeBrilliance fuel regarding events and dialogue in OTGAP and the 1939 film:
42	*** Oscars's parting words to Theodora in OTGAP “Should you ever find the goodness within you, you are welcome to return." in fact are fulfilled, as she ''does'' return in the form of Dorothy.
43	*** Depending on Dorothy's age, several years pass between Theodora's transformation and Dorothy's birth - perhaps creating a period of limbo for Theodora's/Dorothy's soul. Perhaps it takes those few years for someone (Glinda?) to work out how to reincarnate her?
44	*** When Dorothy arrived in Oz, she enacted a karmic resolution by dropping a house on the witch who was responsible for destroying her heart and goodness in her incarnation as Theodora.
45	*** Glinda finally helps and mentors the good side of Theodora, which she is implied to have wanted to do in OTGAP but never got the chance.
46	*** Glinda's opening question, "Are you a good witch or a bad witch?", takes on a deeper meaning (i.e. "Are you ready to face and conquer your 'evil side'?"), and the initial assumption made by Glinda and the Munchkins that Dorothy is a witch is correct (she is the reincarnation of a witch).
47	*** Dorothy's exchanges with the Wicked Witch of the West, and their rivalry for possession of the ruby slippers, become an inner struggle between the conflicting "good" and "evil" parts of herself.
48	*** The Witch's line "And you, my dear, what an unexpected pleasure. It's so kind of you to visit me in my loneliness." was not sarcastic.
49	*** The Witch's dying words are not that ''she'' is being destroyed, but ''her wickedness'' ("Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness.") - and her melting into the ground possibly carries a connotation of re-assimilation as much as that of destruction.
50	*** Dorothy is indirectly responsible for exposing the Wizard as a fraud. Considering what he did to her previous incarnation as Theodora, this could be a form of RestrainedRevenge, as well as the development of a character arc in which the naive Theodora has finally had her eyes opened enough to see through trickery. Moreover, she has several lines that are reminiscent of what a more savvy (unenchanted) Theodora may have said to him: "I don't believe you!" "Oh, you're a very bad man!"
51	*** The wizard abandons her as he abandoned Theodora ("Don't go without me!"), but this time, Glinda is able to intervene on her behalf - something she could not do in OTGAP.
52	*** Dorothy's self-identified lesson ("If I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own backyard because, if it isn't there, I never really lost it to begin with.") is something she learned starting from all the way back when she (as Theodora) was naive enough to invest her worth and her happiness in another (Oz).
53
54	[[WMG:The Wizard later introduced glue to Oz]]
55	in the movie, the China Girl obviously doesn't know what glue is; to her, it is only proof that the Wizard is a real wizard. However, in ''The Wonderful Wizard of Oz'', when Dorothy and company visit the China Country (omitted from the 1939 movie), the milkmaid knows what glue is, and readies to glue back her cow's leg that Dorothy accidentally broke off. Presumably the Wizard taught the Ozians how to make glue, possibly even for this very purpose.
56
57	[[WMG: The Green-Skinned Witch isn't the Wicked Witch of the West.]]
58	...at least, not necessarily.
59
60	Here's what we know: there are two wicked witches, one of whom has green skin, black hat, and all that, and another that looks old with stringy, grey hair. Those just happen to be the descriptions of the Wicked Witch in the 1939 movie and original book, respectively (more or less; the witch also has an eyepatch in the book). We also know that we never get to see the Wicked Witch of the East in the movie or original book. And despite calling Glinda the "Good Witch of the South", they never assign regions to either wicked witch.
61
62	This means that which witch is which is entirely up to you, whether you choose in order to make it line up better with your preferred canon, or just to make sense of why Oz would say the Green-Skinned Witch is always welcome in the Emerald City and then sending Dorothy to kill her.
63
64	* Except we see all three witches cry, and only one was burned by the water in her own tears. That's pretty strong evidence of who it'll be whom Dorothy melts with her bucket.
65	** Not necessarily. Another explanation could be that her anger turns her tears boiling hot, leaving burns on her face.
66	* The credits in the movie names the character as [[spoiler:Theodora/Wicked Witch of the West]].
67
68	[[WMG: The Scarecrow and Cowardly Lion also had their origins in this film.]]
69	Oscar scares off a lion by hurling red smoke powder in its face. If this traumatized the creature enough, it could have developed a rash of phobias which eventually made it paranoid; unable to live as a normal predator, it had to learn to talk so that it could beg for food it could no longer catch in the wild.
70
71	Likewise, Oscar's followers construct an army of rope-and-pulley puppet scarecrows to decoy the flying baboons away from the Emerald City. Glinda conjures a fog to conceal the poppies into which the scarecrow "army" lures them. Most of the scarecrows are torn apart by the baboons, but if one of them remained intact, it could've soaked up enough ambient magic from the enchanted fog to become animated for real. The newly-living Scarecrow remained unconscious long enough for a local farmer to tug him out of the poppy field by the rope which had worked his moving parts, take him to a cornfield, and stick him on a pole, thinking he was just a normal scarecrow.
72
73	This leaves only the Tin Man with no apparent backstory in the prequel. However, it's possible that one of the Good People of Oz seen in the crowd scenes was actually Nick Chopper, the woodcutter who would later become him.
74	* Keep in mind that the Tinkerers claim to fame is that they can build anything. Maybe even new body parts... tin ones, perhaps?
75	* Glinda does make a comment on how "being able to make a scarecrow is more important than you might think."
76
77	[[WMG:Annie and John Gale become Dorothy's parents.]]
78	* Wasn't this confirmed?
79
80	[[WMG:Following from above, Oscar is really Dorothy's father]]
81	Since we know Oscar and Annie Gale have a relationship it is possible.
82
83	[[WMG: The absence of the China Girl and Finley from the original movie could explain why the wizard sent Dorothy to kill the Wicked Witch of the West]]
84	By the end of the movie's Oscar Diggs/Oz has essentially adopted the kid and he's friends with the flying monkey. And yet there's not one word about them in the classic 1939 movie and he was perfectly all right trying to head back to Kansas with Dorothy at the end in the hot air balloon. So what happened. I think that at some point during the years between Theodora crossed a line and decided to get rid of those closest to the wizard, destroying what sympathy he had left for her. The only reason he was willing to leave the land of Oz at the end was because he's lost most of those closest to him and he could never be with Glinda properly (she's too busy being a witch and protecting the inhabitants to settle down).
85	* This could also be the reason why, despite having become nice and moral by the end of the movie, but has no qualms about sending a young girl to possibly her death to kill the witch. With his moral anchors destroyed, Oz became embittered and vengeful, willing to cross any line to enact his revenge.
86	* Or they lived on, they just weren't shown. Although in the book, Finley could have become the leader of the Flying Monkeys, and China Girl could have become the princess of China Town as a reward.
87
88	[[WMG: The entire film was a fantasy fiction created by the Wizard of the 1939 film]]
89	Suddenly ALL of the witches are gorgeously attractive? Suddenly the Wizard becomes the most important being in all of Oz and looks like James Franco? Suddenly everything in Oz is a massive CGI spectacle? Surely this was the product of a bored old man tired of thinking up phony ways to solve the problems of the people of the Emerald City and desperate for some entertainment.
90	* I mean, part of the story is that the Wicked Witch only becomes Wicked because of a chain of events that started with her having an uncontrollable attraction to him. You can practically hear the dude fapping from behind a curtain.
91
92	* This can correspond to how the witches look by the end of the movie. Glinda, his apparent love, is beautiful by any definition. Theodora, while not the conventional ideal of beauty, still maintains significant aesthetic appeal (to some anyway)- she was a brief flame (keep in mind that she doesn't have warts in this one- green skin and a bony nose & chin). Whereas Evanora, the one witch who was always cold to him, becomes a genuinely horrifying hag.
93
94	[[WMG: Frank becomes [[Film/TheWizardOfOz Professor Marvel]]]]
95	Adding a bigger connection between the two characters who look alike in the 1939 movie. He also takes Oscar's wagon to become a traveling fortuneteller.
96
97	[[WMG: When Oz returns to Kansas without Dorothy in ''[=TWoO=]'' he goes back in time, [[NarniaTime as if he never left]].]]
98	Like every other story, ones that ''[=TWoO=]'' has ubiquitously influence, Oz returns to Kansas like he was simply lifted by the tornado and set down safely somewhere else. He lives his life, reconciles with Frank and is a overall a better man. The only problem is he does not know what happened to Dorothy, until he sees her parents and realizes how she might have met him.\
99	For narrative/fate purposes it's the reason he ended up leaving without her, to make a stable time loop.
100
101	[[WMG: China Girl eventually does get her family back.]]
102	Later on, Oz introduced glue to his kingdom, so he simply glues everyone and everything in China Town back together, including her family. So it's a happy ending for her, now she has two families- her original one, and the one made up of Finley, Glinda and The Wizard.
103	* This became possible once Ozma was restablished into her throne.
104	** Interestingly, the movie never mentions Ozma. It's possible she doesn't even exist in this continuity, since Glinda is the heir to the throne, even though she never uses the title "princess" (IIRC).
105
106	[[WMG: Future movies will get a {{Retcon}}]]
107	Such that characters exclusive in this movie will be in the upcoming sequels as well.
108	* Maybe the flying monkey who thanks Dorothy and Co. is Finley.
109	** As a spy/double agent or an unwitting/hypnotized slave.
110
111	[[WMG: Dorothy will be asked to remove the spell on Theodora instead of killing her.]]
112	If the director is allowed to make changes.
113	* Alternatively, Theodora melting to death will free her from her Wickedness.
114
115	[[WMG: Dorothy ''actually did'' remove the spell on Theodora instead of killing her.]]
116	We never actually see Theodora's skin turning green, her nails becoming long and sharp, etc. Rather, she falls to the floor behind a table and a green, taloned hand reaches up to claw its surface. It's just as plausible that Theodora's original body slipped into a magical coma, and a corporeal embodiment of her new DrunkOnTheDarkSide aspect - the Wicked Witch of the West - manifested out of thin air ''above'' her unconscious form. The two evil witches hid her old body somewhere safe and secret, where it remained until Dorothy melted the "Wicked Witch" manifestation, breaking the spell and waking up Theodora's old self in the process.
117	Hence, the [=WWotW=]'s parting line in the 1939 film says nothing whatsoever about her ''dying'', but rather:
118	-->"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness?"
119
120	[[WMG: All China town people are as stubborn and headstrong as the China Girl...]]
121	They refused to pay tribute to the Wicked Witch even though they are obviously extremely vulnerable to destruction.\
122	The China people were too reckless for their own good, and the celebration of the Wizard's coming was just what set the Wicked Witch over the edge.
123
124	[[WMG: Sequel name theories]]
125	* Oz The Great and Good
126	* Oz and the Witches of Oz
127	* Oz the Great and [[FallenHero Terrible]]
128	** Oz is starting to turn evil, so when Dorothy shows up instead of sending her home Glinda sends her to the Wizard in the hopes of reminding him of the woman he loved, and also the China Girl. (Who's probably dead). However, he manipulates her into killing the Wicked Witch, and Glinda has to go along with it lest she angers The Great and Terrible Oz.
129
130	[[WMG: A spinoff movie will be made out of the ''{{Lion of Oz and the Badge of Courage}}'']]
131	A cowardly lion was in this movie.
132
133	[[WMG: Oz is in a coma]]
134	Oz is actually in a coma, and the events transpiring throughout the movie in the land of Oz are actually all taking place in his head. He was most likely struck by debris inside the tornado and the rest of the movie transpires completely in his mind.
135	The facts:
136
137	1. Before going to Oz, he calls his assistant nothing more than a trained monkey. In Oz he meets a trained monkey who has the same voice as his assistant.
138
139	2. Oz feels remorseful about not being able to help the girl in the wheelchair who cannot walk. In Oz he is able to fix the china girl's legs (his mind is correcting the guilt he feels).
140
141	3. Glinda is the good witch and none other than the girl whom Oz is truly in love with in reality.
142	* And the last thing he said to her was "I'll see you in my dreams"... (Or something to that effect)
143	4. Oz comes to a land named after himself, with a prophecy revolving around him as a hero, and where he is adored by all (in particular two very attractive witches).
144
145	5. Oz says that he wishes he could be like Houdini and Edison. By the end of the film he has become just that, with his mix of technology and magician showmanship.
146
147	6. Oz seems to have some sort of supernatural knowledge in the world of Oz (i.e. knowing the flying baboon would chase the dove, or facing and speaking directly to Theodora as she flies away at the end of the movie, despite him having no way of knowing where she would be since he is inside of his contraption.
148	*** We see him using a periscope-like apparatus in the machine, which makes his being able to face Theodora from inside it more plausible.
149
150	* A corollary to this is that he will be kept alive in a hospital somewhere for about twenty years, and will wake up shortly after Dorothy Gale awakens from ''her'' tornado-induced bizarre dream.
151	** So does this mean that Oz and Dorothy are sharing the same coma dream?
152	*** Maybe they're sharing a dream. Maybe it's pure coincidence. Maybe it really is real and sleep takes you there. That answers to the dream issue only raise further questions is entirely appropriate here, thematically speaking.
153	*** Alternatively, Dorothy also is a hallucination -- a manifestation of his desire to go home.
154	*** That one could work, especially since Dorothy just so happens to be the daughter of Oz's love and her husband. Along with going home it could be a manifestation of the life he wishes he would have had.
155	** Maybe Dorothy had been volunteering part-time at the hospital, and the persistently-vegetative Oscar whom she's been caring for talks about his dreams in his sleep.
156
157	[[WMG: Glinda cursed Evanora with the hideous appearance]]
158	During the battle at the end of the movie, Glinda used her magic to curse Evanora to become a hag. Breaking Evanora's necklace only sealed the witch's powers, but her beautiful appearance was her true look. Basically, with Theodora willing to look hideous and Evanora cursed to be hideous, Glinda can be the most beautiful witch in all of Oz.
159	* Unlikely. In ''The Marvelous Land of Oz'', Glinda says:
160	-->"Really," said the Sorceress, "that is beyond my magic. I never deal in transformations, for they are not honest, and no respectable sorceress likes to make things appear to be what they are not. Only unscrupulous witches use the art, and therefore I must ask Mombi to effect your release from her charm, and restore you to your proper form. It will be the last opportunity she will have to practice magic."
161
162	[[WMG: Creator/PeterJackson is going to do a movie based on ''Literature/PeterPan'']]
163	And then he, Raimi, and Creator/TimBurton, are going to collaborate on an adaptation of Creator/AlanMoore's ''Lost Girls''.
164	** Or Webcomic/CheshireCrossing or their own unique blend of the three, because quite frankly its a DreamTeam. Throw in [[Literature/GulliversTravels Lemuel Gulliver]] for a bonus.
165
166	[[WMG: The winged monkeys in the 1939 movie are crossbreeds of the two winged monkey species in OTGAP ]]
167	While I was pleased to see a portrayal of a winged monkey as cute, I was a bit confused when the bat-baboons (which were still awesome) came on the scene. This raised a lot of questions as to how Finley and the baboons tie into the monkeys of the original movie. Crossbreeding explains this perfectly. Compare the 1939 monkeys to the ones in this prequel. They are certainly larger and more aggressive than Finley, yet they have his feather wings, and resemble Finley's species more than baboons. They're actually combinations of both monkeys. This could have done been done either by (a) good old fashioned interspecies mating (consensual I hope) or (b) magical means by the witches, as an attempt to create more intelligent minions.
168
169	[[WMG: This movie actually takes place in the same continuity as ''Theatre/{{Wicked}}'': it's all a guilt-fueled hallucination of the Wizard's.]]
170
171	After Elphaba's [[spoiler:apparent death]] and his removal from power, he begins to fantasize about a world where he truly is heroic and "wonderful", he gets the pretty girl, and the Wicked Witch of the West is truly wicked and [[spoiler:not his daughter]]. Unable to come to terms with the real world, his mind eventually breaks and that's when this movie takes place.
172
173	[[WMG: The Good Witch of the North wasn't around to help in the movie because she's having trouble with the Nome King and Mombi.]]
174
175	[[WMG: The former king of Oz was Pastoria.]]
176
177	[[WMG: When Oz comes back at the end of Dorothy's adventure, he gets dropped off a period of time ''before'' Dorothy leaves.]]
178	There's a TimeyWimeyBall TimeTravel involved. This is how he can be there ''before'' Dorothy's adventure starts and is ''still there'' when she gets back. This means Oz knew all about both his and her adventures when she met him the first time - he didn't say anything because he already knew she had at least defeated the Wicked Witch safely and returned. If he told the truth, Dorothy may have evaded the tornado and he may have never gotten back to Kansas!
179	* So, in order:
180	-->1.Oz goes to Oz.
181	-->2.Oz returns from Oz (from #4)
182	-->3.Dorothy goes to Oz
183	-->4.Oz's balloon flies off by mistake, only dropping him off back at #2.
184	-->5.Dorothy returns from Oz
185
186	[[WMG: Tornadoes are the portal to Oz]]
187	People only seem to get sent there when there's a tornado. (Though this troper confesses to only seeing the original film and this one) Coincidence?
188	* In the books, travelers from the outside manage to reach Oz by means other than tornadoes. Oz itself is landlocked and completely surrounded by the Deadly Desert, so the only means of reaching it are by air, teleportation, or some kind of magical transport that would shield its passengers from the Desert. However, the countries surrounding Oz are reachable normally. For example, in ''Ozma of Oz'', Dorothy is shipwrecked in the Land of Ev, another magical land separated from Oz by the Deadly Desert. Ozma then arrives by crossing the Desert on a self-rolling carpet warded against the sands of instant death, and later takes Dorothy to Oz by the same means.
189
190	[[WMG: Glinda rebuilt China Country to be extra safe]]
191
192	In this prequel China Country is just a normal village, which consists of China People. In the book that takes place after, it is concealed within a giant china bowl. Perhaps Glinda after fixing up the inhabitants, created the giant bowl to make it harder for invaders to attack, to avoid another tragedy. Makes perfect sense when you think about it.
193	* Further evidence: in this film, China Town is located in the Land of the West, whereas in the books it's located on the path to Glinda's castle in the South Country. She could have straight-up relocated the city to keep it out of Theodora's territory.
194
195	[[WMG: Theodora doesn't turn evil, the bite of the apple kills her]]
196
197	Evanora mentions that the apple will cause her heart to wither. Even witches (who are just presumably humans with magical powers) would need a heart to survive. Evanora simply killed Theodora and had the vacant body occupied by an evil spirit or made it just a puppet for her control. Since Theodora manages to find out the secret behind the King's murder, it would make sense that Evanora would wish to eliminate her (possibly making up the Oz-betrayed-you story to drive her to suicide) and someone like Evanora wouldn't be above killing her own sister.
198	** Actually, the apple withering her heart is actually somewhat inline with what the original book series said about the wicked witch of the west, that she was so evil, all her blood had dried up ages ago. This movie, legally speaking, is supposed to be a prequel to said book. But still a pretty interesting WMG.
199
200	[[WMG: Dorothy is Oz's biological daughter]]
201
202	Annie and Oscar clearly have had a past together, and she seems to be marrying John in a hurry. Perhaps her parents didn't approve of the conman and she kept seeing him, resulting in a pregnancy and the need for a shotgun wedding to the more appropriate John Gale. While it's Disney, I can see them experimenting with this in a possible sequel.
203
204	[[WMG: The Wizard of Oz is Harry Osborn.]]
205	"You're a wizard Harry!"
206	* Boo!!!!

Context WMG / OzTheGreatAndPowerful