Line #20 WMG/Irredeemable


1	[[WMG:Survivor is actually the one who is draining his brother's powers]]
2	* It fits with him having a dark secret and his obsession with proving himself as "The Survivor."
3	** Debunked as of issue #31.
4
5	[[WMG:Jailbait's departure was editorially mandated.]]
6	Take note about how she was replaced with a Jailbait who didn't have any attraction to Max Damage and has been seemingly replaced HERSELF by a very adult Alana Patel.
7	* This was debunked in the final issue of Incorruptible, as Max says to Jailbait that he's willing to take her back in a few weeks when she turns 18.
8	* Annie Tanaka/Jailbait II/Headcase not being attracted to Max is debatable. While she claimed to not be into men back when she first worked as Jailbait II, she's later shown flirting with boys before she reaches Max's fateful meeting with the Paradigm so that might have been a lie to discourage him. She did later make him swear to protect her and overall comes off as a {{Yandere}} towards him in a way even Jailbait I/Terri doesn't.
9	** Arguably, this is less about Headcase being attracted to Max as it is her insistence and belief that Annie Tanaka died alongside her family. Annie first declared herself to be Jailbait, coping with her tragic loss through delusion and disassociation. Jailbait was attracted to Max and flirted with boys, ergo so did Headcase. Headcase wasn't Annie, and this just proved it, right? Right? It was the same kind of denial-thinking that led her to assert that the healing of Qubit meant that she never attacked Qubit in the first place.
10	*** Alternatively, Headcase really IS straight, but she was simply lying about being lesbian in order to discourage Max at first. That being said, her newfound Yandere tendencies are still obvious.
11
12	[[WMG:In the Irredeemable Universe, getting superpowers beyond a certain threshold necessarily drives you mad.]]
13	It's happening to Charybdis, and his power only had to double. Might be a quasi-mystical Universal law similar to that of "Evil Always Win" in the Crime Syndicate Earth in Franchise/TheDCU.
14	* On the other hand, Max Damage is a reasonable kind of guy and is attempting to go straight. Although his power can fluctuate, it's mentioned he's generally on the same level of power as Charybdis and The Plutonian.
15	* This can, of course, be explained by WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity.
16	** I think this is a case of the power style. Max is, more or less, an ordinary guy is abso-fucking-lutely indestructible. Which reflects on his personality, which is resolute, determined, and unflinching. Compare to Charybdis and Survivor, who both go absolutely batshit. Why? Because they are gods in the shells of men. Max Damage needs to TRY to kill people. Those two KNOW for a fact that the world can burn at their fingertips. This pushes them towards the edge, knowing that they can get revenge on everyone who doesn't respect them (The Plutonian was rejected as a child, Charybdis has self image issues as a result of people considering him a joke).
17	** Also, Max is regularly BroughtDownToNormal because of the way his power works, so he can still relate to people who feel vulnerable.
18	* I don't think it's a question of power level -- I think it's a question of temperament. Cary didn't go insane with power because of the power itself -- much as Elliot didn't go insane when he gained equal power. He lost control of himself because he'd spent years being unable to assert himself in comparison to his more popular, assertive brother Sy. When Sy died and Cary gained the power to confront the Plutonian on his own terms, he saw it as his chance to prove he was just as good -- or better -- than Sy ''or'' the Plutonian ever were, and when people continued to react to him as Cary instead of Sy (especially Kaiden), he couldn't handle it. When Qubit gained the same level of epic power [[spoiler: by absorbing Modeus's intellect into his own]] he didn't go insane or demand the worship of others. He just used the abilities to keep his word to the Plutonian in his own way.
19
20	[[WMG: ''Irredeemable'' is Creator/MarkWaid's apology for ''ComicBook/KingdomCome''.]]
21	* Why would Mark Waid apologize for ''ComicBook/KingdomCome''? It's a highly acclaimed, landmark comic.
22	** A more accurate statement might be that he's Writing Against Type and shaking off the image fans have of him as someone who can't write anything not based or inspired by the Silver Age. And doing a damn good job of it.
23	*** Creator/GrantMorrison's essay added to the first issue pretty much confirms it.
24	*** Slight problem, though, ComicBook/KingdomCome was more a {{deconstruction}} of MediaNotes/{{the Dark Age\|of Comic Books}}, not really a {{reconstruction}} of MediaNotes/{{the Silver Age\|of Comic Books}}.
25	*** It was both.
26
27	[[WMG: Qubit is in love with the Plutonian.]]
28	Compare his devotion, even still, on ''saving'' Tony and not killing him. He halfway-sabotages Bette's attempt to murder him (albeit with good reason), and even after the Singapore disaster, when speaking to the Enchantess, his main concern was "Getting Tony back" rather than killing him. While it could be argued it's because he's the strongest proponant of ThouShaltNotKill in the team, the closeness he expresses for Tony seems to be more than he has for any human.
29
30	** Not quite. Turns out [[spoiler: there's another alien invasion coming in and they might need him to save them all.]]
31
32	[[WMG: Someone will time travel to give Plutonian his perfect family.]]
33	I base this on... absolutely nothing.
34	** [[spoiler: Actually, with the revelations of what his [[RealityWarper people]] [[TimeTravel are]], it's entirely possible.]]
35
36	[[WMG: Someone already did time travel to give Plutonian his perfect family...]]
37	...and created an alternate universe by doing so, where the Plutonian is instead known as Franchise/{{Superman}}.
38	* ... [[spoiler: Almost Jossed. Plutonian's "essence" was spread throughout different realities. It reached ours and led to the inspiration of Superman.]] Good job.
39
40	[[WMG: Qubit is a deconstruction of the [[Series/DoctorWho Doctor's]] moral character.]]
41	Think about it. Aside from a physical resemblance to David Tennant's Tenth Doctor, he possesses many of his characteristics, particularly his "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule. He's the only character who doesn't want to kill the Plutonian, despite everything the guy has done since day one of his reign of terror. Qubit's search for a non-violent means of "saving" the Plutonian have only resulted in even more needless death and destruction. To be fair, this is also [[spoiler: Bette Noir's fault for keeping the one item that could have killed the Plutonian to her chest when they could have needed it. But when she finally got around to firing the damn thing, Qubit intercepted the bullet and manipulated it to kill Orian. Yeah, nice job.]]
42
43	Qubit's action, or rather inaction, has done more harm than good. Likewise, the one scene where he torments Encanta could be Mark Waid's way of criticizing the Doctor's hypocrisy. Killing is bad, but punishments or tortures [[FateWorseThanDeath worse than death]] are alright? This feels more and more like an attack on the Doctor being a TechnicalPacifist.
44	* Characters in the comic also seem more willing to call Qubit out on being an InsufferableGenius.
45	* Orian was planning to invade earth with an army of super soldiers that could EACH take on Paragon. Qubit still has the bullet, as you guys may recall. He is prepared to kill Plutonian, but knows he doesn't have to. Actually, if Plutonian were dead, shit would be going way more south. Plutonian was both the only thing keeping an alien race from invading, and he seems to be the only defense against another possible invasion. Also, he has been the most crucial member of the team when it came to helping rebuild, and he's the ONLY person capable of counterscheming the various forces at play. Also, do you see any other members intimidating an alien race into stopping invasions? Nope. If anything, he's a reconstruction of Reed Richards. Many people forget that he has a lot of Chessmaster traits, with the capacity for Speed Chess. Summary: he firmly believes in "The Devil that You Know," and has ways of dealing with the existing threats. He's like Batman+The Doctor+ Reed Richards.
46
47	[[WMG: The Plutonian's Fate.]]
48
49	Either:
50	** a) Qubit finds a means to [[SealedEvilInACan imprison the Plutonian.]]
51	** b) [[EndofTheWorldasWeKnowIt Destroys the planet and moves on to the stars to wreck his vengeance across the universe.]]
52	** c) He dies at the hands of Charybdis/Survivor.
53	** d) Slain by Kaidan when she unleashes the vengeful souls of all his victims out of a can of holy spiritual whoopass. [[SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome Holy crap, that would be fantastic!]]
54	** e) Modeus destroys him with a DeusExMachina.
55
56	Any thoughts?
57
58	** f) Max Daring beating him halfway past death, anyone?
59	** g) Gets bored and goes to Mars, the hangout spot for all insanely overpowered disillusioned superheroes.
60	** h) Experiences a HeelFaceTurn and somehow atones for all his atrocities. Probably involves Time Travel.
61
62	Another option-
63
64	** i) Is stripped of his powers and put on trial for his crimes, or before that even killed by the mobs of people he's been terrorizing. For added irony, his powers are taken away by one of his former enemies, who become worldwide heroes for their efforts.
65
66	Combining f, h and i-
67
68	** j) After finding a way to depower The Plutonian, it is determined only Max Daring's power could stand up to his might to get the injection (or whatnot) in. After an epic fight, Daring manages to get the shot into The Plutonian's stream. The loss of powers also has the side effect of curing the Plutonian's insanity, and he atones for all his crimes.
69	*** Huh. This one sounds pretty plausible.
70
71	Taking A to another level-
72
73	** k) The Plutonian is [[SealedEvilInACan sealed away, and the last issue will be of him being released]] to butt heads with super-heroes in the future (who look strangely like the ComicBook/LegionOfSuperHeroes).
74
75	Going by the most recent revelations...
76
77	** L) The Plutonian will discover the true nature of his powers, that Modeus alluded to, and use them to completely undo all the attrocities he commited...Or [[DownerEnding use them to spread his rage across the multiverse]].
78
79	** M) Alternatively, it occurs to me that the mechanics of Plutonian's powers could serve as a massive KryptoniteFactor. Modeus can selectively alter people's memories, so if he could somehow make the Plutonian forget he had powers or perhaps think he'd been hallucinating or dreaming them, then his strength, flight etc. might simply stop working. The candle could presumably make him vulnerable to the virus that implants the memory-altering nanotech, so the ingredients are all there. I realise that the cooperation necessary to pull this off is unlikely, given the tone of the series, (in fact, Modeus becoming able to so directly manipulate Tony would surely just make things even worse) but...
80	*** Logically, Modeus must be able to read memories to be able to delete them as precisely as he can. So he could already know literally everything that Qubit knows - including the fact that he has the candle. In fact, Modeus [[BehindTheBlack could easily]] have nicked it already, during their trip to the prison planet.
81	* We now know the Plutonian is [[spoiler: a RealityWarper. We also know that super-powered beings and the like only started appearing ''after'' he did. Ergo... Consciously or unconsciously, he used his powers to turn the world into a big comic book where these kinds of things happen. Just like ComicBook/DoctorSolar.]]
82	* And the real answer, which is quite possibly crazier than any of the guesses: [[spoiler: Tony literally becomes Superman; that is, Superman as he exists in reality, the comic-book character.]]
83
84	[[WMG: The Auroran is...]]
85	* Plutonian's father/brother/uncle/cousin/doppleganger from another universe
86	* The only other being in the whole universe who is the same race as the Plutonian
87	* A timelord
88	* A psychic who is just dicking around with Tony for his own purposes.
89	** This actually combines quite well with second suggestion. See [[http://comicbookrealm.com/previews/2665/boom-studios-irredeemable-issue-25 this preview]].
90
91	[[WMG: There will be a comic...]]
92	...about a teenage boy who doesn't know that The Plutonian is now evil. How would he not know this? Well, many years ago, he was saved by him, and thus, the young boy wanted to be like him, or at least his sidekick. He went to a [[HiddenElfVillage a hidden Kung-Fu School]] that was cut off completely from the outside world. Many years later, the young boy was a teenager, and he had graduated the school. But by then, his hero had become evil. When he heard the news, he thought it was a ruse by some evil being because "He can never do wrong!" Thus begins his (tragic) journey to prove that The Plutonian isn't evil and to stop the one doing this ruse. Saying it won't go well is an Understatement.
93	* What would the title be? Denial (referring to the boy's denial that the man who was his hero has turned evil)?
94	** Actually, a more fitting title would be "Inconceivable", which would be what the boy's reaction is to the Plutonian now being evil.
95	** Okay, that title works too.
96
97	[[WMG: The Survivor tried to kill his brother.]]
98	That's the dark secret. Re-read the scene where The Plutonian destroys Inferno's base. Both Scylla and Cary would have been able to put up shields to block it and Cary was flying toward Scylla at the time. It's possible Cary somehow sabotaged Scylla at the last minute and then protected himself. The pair had just been seen arguing about dating Kaidan just moments earlier. Perhaps Cary got sick of sharing the spotlight and his powers and thought it was unfair for his brother to come out ahead, so he seized an opportunity.
99	** That does make sense, given how much Charry resented Scylla in the most recent issue's flashback. Probably killed Scylla to get all the power and Kaidan, but wasn't prepared for the vast power increase or all the responsibility that would be thrust upon him.
100	** Kind off jossed. If anything he was flying towards his brother to save him...
101
102	[[WMG: The Plutoninan is a collective subconscious manifestation of all the heroes]]
103	Let's face it, Plutonian has all the best abilities a super hero has. And his fall from grace represents the symbolical fall of grace of other superheroes. We did see Hornet hiding some grim stuff in his closet, who knows what skeletons Metalman, Citadel or Volt might had.
104
105	[[WMG: The Plutonian has already broken through to our universe, and like Superboy Prime on the DC website, he reads this wiki.]]
106	''[[ParanoiaFuel So you better watch what you write about me.]]''
107	* [[spoiler: He did... well, his essence did. We're safe.]]
108
109	[[WMG: The Plutonian began slipping when Alana and her co-workers make him unable to be Dan Hartigan again and be full-time Plutonian]]
110	As it's said in ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'', Superman says that he'd go crazy if he had to be Superman all the time and that ''he's Clark Kent'' above all. Alana and her co-workers destroyed this for Tony (albeit it was his fault for telling it to Alana in the first place.)
111
112	[[WMG: Max Damage could never REALLY take the Plutonian in a fight.]]
113	The comic establishes on multiple occasions that Max Damage was on the same levels as the Plutonian if he'd been awake for a long enough time. Close enough to make it a good fight at least. However, none of those fights destroyed an entire city, and the Plutonian has enough power in just his eye beams to do just that, or [[spoiler: sink Singapore, or carve his symbol into North America in trenches wider than the grand canyon. From space.]] The fact that the Plutonian turns out to be [[spoiler: a reality warper]] makes me think that just seeing Max Damage, due to [[spoiler: their childhood history together]] makes him subconsciously depower himself.
114
115	[[WMG: [[spoiler: Even with The Plutonian gone, Earth is screwed]]]]
116	Sure, all of the major villains operating from Earth have either reformed (Max Damage, [[spoiler: Plutonian in a way]]), died, or were otherwise removed as a threat ([[spoiler: like Modeus getting sealed away into Qubit's mind]]), and the series ended with new heroes (like [[spoiler: Alana Patel with Max Damage's abilities]]) possibly filling the gaps left by the Paradigm's dead members. But there's the issue of the Vespa, who if you remember were deadly enough that Hornet figured it was better to cut a deal with them than fight off an invasion of their armies. Now that the Plutonian not only escaped from a Vespa ran prison, but [[spoiler: has had his essence spread around the multiverse]] the Vespa are in a strong position to invade Earth again, this time [[spoiler:without the Plutonian to get in their way.]] Remember that the deal Hornet cut with the Vespa had them capture Tony and not invade Earth while getting the coordinates of Earthlike planets the Paradigm visited along with Qubit's portal technology. Now that [[spoiler:Tony's gone]] and Qubit destroyed a Vespa ship alongside mutilating their ruler, they can point to all that as warrants to begin another invasion of Earth. Even if Qubit turns off the portals, the Vespa can still reach Earth and overwhelm it from the sheer weight of their empire.
117	* However, surviving superheroes that survived The Plutonian's carnage off-screen might re-surface and join the fight against the Vespa.
118
119	[[WMG: Agent Nine is a BadassNormal super-spy, not a superhero]]
120	He just so happened to work with superheroes often. As a result, he's just well-respected enough among the superhero community enough to have a mention by Qubit.
121
122	[[WMG: Alternatively, Agent Nine is a superhero with a movie super-spy gimmick.]]
123
124	[[WMG: Alternatively, Agent Nine is a super-powered super-spy, but NOT a superhero.]]
125
126	[[WMG: Alternatively, Agent Nine is a superhero and a super-spy.]]
127
128	[[WMG: Alana Patel and Hate Crime are more than friends]]
129	They seem too affectionate toward each other. We don't see Alana hook up with any other man besides Tony. It's possible Alana is bisexual, and Hate Crime is her girlfriend.
130
131	[[WMG: Irredeemable and Nemesis take place in the same universe]]
132	An evil Superman and an evil Batman are causing havoc in that world.
133	* That would mean that Kick-Ass, Kingsman, MPH, and Wanted are also in the same universe, according to the ending of Kick-Ass 3 and WordOfGod.
134
135	[[WMG: Guesses as to other expies that would have appeared had this series continued]]
136	* A Ryu Hoshi Expy.
137	* A Cole [=MacGrath=] Expy.
138	* Expies of the other Doctors.
139	* A Cassie Hack Expy.
140	* A Hellboy Expy.
141	* A James Bond Expy.
142	** Alternatively, Agent Nine IS the James Bond Expy.
143	* A Liu Kang Expy.
144	* A Duke Nukem Expy.
145	* An Alex Mercer Expy.
146	* A Goku Expy.
147	* A Jackie Estacado Expy.
148	* A Spawn Expy.
149
150	[[WMG: Plutonian was cheating on Alana Patel with [[spoiler: Bette Noir]]]]
151	We don't know the exact time period where [[spoiler: Bette Noir]] had an affair with Tony. One could assume Tony was sleeping with them both around the same time.
152
153	[[WMG: Hornet's daughter is alive, and will either become a super hero or an anti-villain]]
154	We don't see Tony killing Hornet's daughter at the beginning. Witnessing an evil superman vaporizing her family could mess up a kid's head. She will either grow up to be a Batman-like vigilante, or an alien-hating anti-villain. She was last seen in Hornet's "batcave". The car, computers, gadgets, and the cave itself are still intact.
155
156	[[WMG: Someday, Agent Nine may get his own comic book series]]
157	And it would be a prequel series focusing on his spy missions.
158
159	[[WMG: Someday, there will be a prequel series focusing on the other members of the Paradigm.]]
160
161	[[WMG: The movie adaptation will leave out the reality warper powers...]]
162	...but only because the Plutonian's parents took away Plutonian's reality warping abilities but let him keep the Flying Brick powers. In other words, a rare in-universe example of adaptational superpower change.
163
164	[[WMG: [[spoiler: At the end of the comic, the Plutonian's essence was scattered across various worlds. The various fragments would create the numerous different versions of him based on his different aspects.]]]]
165	This would explain the presence of ComicBook/{{Superman}} expies and why most of them deviate from the character in alignment/personality/etc.
166	* [[ComicBook/TheBoys The Homelander]] is a manifestation of his neurosis' aspect, [[spoiler: Black Noir is his psychopathy.]]
167
168	[[WMG: If stories set in this setting are to continue, Qubit and/or Max Daring will become the main heroes/protectors of Earth.]]
169	Either or both of them could even lead the Paradigm in Plutonian's absence.
170
171	[[WMG: The Vespa will be defeated by superheroes who stayed in hiding during Plutonian's rampage.]]
172
173	[[WMG: In the upcoming Irredeemable movie, it will crossover with The Boys TV show.]]
174	* Both series break MANY rules of superhero tropes.
175	* Both attack a certain part of comic book creation (The Boys goes after the sleazy corporate underbelly behind comics, Irredeemable goes after the mythos itself.)
176	* Both have a rag-tag band of heroes/anti-heroes doing everything they can to take down the villains (The Boys Vs. Vought and the false superheroes of their world, and The Paradigm and Max Damage's group Vs. The Plutonian and whatever allies The Plutonian has.)
177	* Both involve radicals who worship major villains, whether they are knowingly doing so or not (The Boys has the fundamentalists at the Believe Expo who unknowingly worships Homelander more than they do their God the claim to worship, and Irredeemable has The Diamond Gang, a Neo-Nazi gang that worships the Plutonian.)
178
179	[[WMG: Hypothetically speaking, had there been sequel comics, Gilgamos' affiliation with Babylonian mythology would have played a more major role.]]
180
181	[[WMG: A spin-off about the Irredeemable-verse AFTER Plutonian's essense was scattered to different universes will eventually happen.]]
182	* And the main protagonists will be superheroes who survived the Plutonian's rampage by going into hiding and fighting crime discretely until it was confirmed that the Plutonian is rendered in a state that means that he can no longer hurt anyone ever again.
183
184	[[WMG: A spin-off will lead to a crossover with the comic book version of The Boys.]]
185	With the intro showing that Plutonian's essense left the Boys universe because EVEN HE was horrified by the villains of that universe.
186
187	[[WMG: Eventually, Mark Waid will make a third comic series set in the Irredeemable Universe....]]
188	....and it will be a prequel series about an adult woman who can turn invisible and create forcefields. Her husband, who has stretchy powers, was a superhero, but he turned evil, and murdered the Human Torch expy and the Ben Grimm expy. Now she has to choose between saving the world or her husband gone mad.
189	* Not sure what the title would be though. Affection? Referring to how the husband still loves his wife even though he turned evil and his wife stayed a hero, and how his wife still loves him despite the horrible things he did?
190
191	[[WMG: Capcom will make an Irredeemable video game adaptation.]]
192	Think Resident Evil, but with supervillains and their minions/flunkies/henchmen instead of zombies and other monsters, with Plutonian as Irredeemable’s version of Albert Wesker.
193
194	[[WMG: We'll get an Irredeemable tabletop RPG.]]
195

Context WMG / Irredeemable