Line #203 WMG/Haven


1	[[WMG: Audrey 2's amnesia was caused by exactly the same process that removed memories of Lucy]]
2	Not just the same force or agent behind it, rather, in both cases, all memories of Lucy were removed. The town doesn't remember anything surrounding the Colorado Kid, but a man who had mental illness and could understandably have been affected differently was the one who provided the name Lucy. The reporters know, but at least one of them appears to remember much more than he told Audrey. Then Audrey 2 has her entire life erased, but remembers basic things like how to speak, walk, eat, what a police station looks like, etc. She also remembers her boyfriend, who was specifically stated to have met her after the two Audrey's memories diverged. So every memory that would deal specifically with Lucy was taken, just in Audrey 2's case it was nearly everything.
3
4	[[WMG: Vince was engaged or married to Sarah]]
5	Thus his fiercely protective steak towards Audrey and the rings that's shown up a couple times early in season 3
6
7	[[WMG: Dwight is not to be trusted]]
8	He supposedly took the Wendigo girls to a slaughterhouse where they could feed safely sometime torwards the end of s2. Then in the premiere of s3 a woman named Roslyn Toomey is supposedly killed even though Audrey is believes she is talking to her three hours after the estimated time of death. More tellingly a big deal is made of the fact that woman's who's body was found nearly incinerated was killed with a bolt gun like used in a slaughter house and a lot of attention was drawn to this fact as well. I'm thinking Roslyn and Dwight are worling together. A new secret faction to oppose Audrey now that Driscoll has been killed off.
9	* Jossed.
10
11	[[WMG: Audrey ''is'' Lucy.]]
12	Because ''duh''
13	* Pretty much proven, now.
14	** But Audrey may still be Lucy's daughter. :D [[WhamLine That line]] is a great example of why this show is good, despite mediocre special effects, and secondary characters who clearly aren't taking it seriously.
15	** "Business As Usual" introduces us to the actual Lucy, revealing that history is repeating itself and many years ago, the situation with Lucy was similar to the situation with Audrey 2.
16
17	[[WMG: Audrey No1 is Lucy but...]]
18	Doesn't she have memories of her childhood? Maybe, at one point, she lost previous memories and gained Audrey's. Maybe she is her daughter with Accidental Fake Identity Syndrome. Maybe she's immortal. Maybe she's the origin of the Troubles. Maybe she's an alien.:) And we have to wait until summer.
19
20	[[WMG: Audrey No2 is from another dimension]]
21	With the introduction of another version of Audrey's boss, we can assume this is a possible explination.
22	* As of [=S02E02=] it seems much more likely that Audrey2 is actually the real one and Audrey just has her memories. Her Boss is not with the FBI but someone who tried to control her for unknown reasons. He is connected to the old Chief and knows more about the troubles and Lucy then he let on.
23	** The reply is confirmed.
24
25	[[WMG: The Troubled are actually Series/{{Alphas}}]]
26	What? It was obvious!
27	* Related to this...
28
29	[[WMG: ''Haven'' is part of the Syfy-verse.]]
30	The town was built on some kind of [[Series/{{Warehouse 13}} Artifact]] (or it ''is'' an Artifact) that continues to give people abilities and make them Troubled. Some of the Troubled left Haven, had kids and passed shades of their abilities onto their children. Over the course of generations, superpowers became a large enough part of the gene pool that people noticed, and those people are Series/{{Alphas}}. Naturally, this is all moving towards an [[Film/TheAvengers2012 Avengers-esque]] team-up.
31	* Confirmed-ish; the creators have said that the puzzle pieces Vince and Dave were sending "somewhere safe" were destined for Warehouse 13, but they couldn't get permission to say so explicitly.
32
33	[[WMG: History repeats itself and Lucy/Audrey ends the troubles each time]]
34	She is a power nullifier and every time the troubles start she ends them after learning how to control her power. While doing this she loses her memory and someone (perhaps the man who acted as her boss) gives her new ones. In each cycle she comes to Haven, learns about the troubles and her powers anew and stops them for a time. Before Audrey came the first time to Haven (or was born there) the troubles never stopped at all. The people with the tattoo are either trying to help/protect Audrey (possibly they are even the reason she seems to be immortal) or trying to stop her because they want to use the powers of the troubled for their own gain. This is the reason that Lucy seemed to use two very different hair styles - she had different memories at the time.
35	* Confirmed, though not exactly in that manner.
36
37	[[WMG:Lucy/Audrey -starts- the troubles each time]]
38	The troubles start whenever Lucy/Audrey begins to remember or dig into her past. As she learns more, the troubles grow greater until she has to forget everything and start anew.
39	* Either she ''starts'' the troubles, or is responsible for them in some way, but apparently Simon Crocker thought killing Audrey (then Lucy) would accomplish something important - perhaps end the Troubles permanently? Because she apparently doesn't have any children or other family (that we know of, at least), so for a Crocker to kill her wouldn't end a Trouble in her family, so why kill her at all?
40	* Confirmed. [[spoiler:When she's gone, no Troubles. When she comes back, so do the Troubles. The escalation is a natural result of families unlocking the Troubles under trauma and such over time, until Audrey vanishes again and the cycle starts anew.]]
41	** '''Not quite and technically Jossed''' [[spoiler:, The Troubles are still there and exist so Audrey doesn't really start them. [[AntiMagic Audrey's immunity]] is amplified by the Barn, so the Troubles are ''masked''. She is the reason they go away, but not the reason they exist. Eventually, her immunity runs out of energy, as it is run on ThePowerOfLove, so she has to come back to the real world and feel emotions again to power the Barn. Since the Barn ''gradually'' runs out of energy the Troubles come back long before Audrey does. See below.]]
42	* My only problem with this is of all people, Nathan. Nathan said that he hadn't felt anything for a couple of years before Audrey returned to Haven, but Audrey said that the only real memories she had were of the last six months (her time in Haven). So the Troubles actually predate Audrey's existence by ''years.''
43	* Expanded. [[spoiler:Audrey suppresses the Troubles while she's gone, and that effect wears off over time until she has to come back to recharge.]]
44
45	[[WMG: The writers read TV tropes!]]
46	In the audio commentary for "A Tale of Two Audreys", they talk about a few points made her: the darkness, the Velveteen Rabbit, even the averted unfortunate implication of Evi. Heck, they even talk about Fraudrey as Fraudrey.
47
48	[[WMG: Audrey/Lucy is Lucifer]]
49	Related to her being the source of the troubles, the whole point is a sort of gambit to try and get the Devil to be a good guy (or girl in this case).
50
51	[[WMG: Haven is linked to the Dark Tower series]]
52	It's Stephen King after all; a lot of his more recent stuff ties in directly, indirectly, or some how symbolically to Franchise/TheDarkTower universe. And as of Season 2 Episode 11 we [[spoiler: learn that the Crooker family has a strange chest full of odd weapons. These weapons match ones seen in the Dark Tower series.]]
53
54	[[WMG: Audrey's kidnapping is part of a plan to get Nathan to kill Duke or to be killed by him]]
55	Audrey is Tazered instead of shot, so she was taken alive. She falls there, but when Nathan arrives, he finds signs of a struggle ''over by the table'', cupboards apparently ransacked, and Duke's necklace, which just screams frame-up. Since Nathan loves Audrey and doesn't trust Duke, he naturally assumes the worst and confronts Duke at gunpoint. Duke, as anyone would know, is on his boat where he has a number of guns hidden, and when the tattoo Nathan seemingly inherited from Max Hansen suddenly appears on his forearm, Duke has genuine cause to fear for his life. If Nathan kills Duke, he does what one half of Haven wants by removing the most recent Crocker threat to Audrey. If Duke kills Nathan, Audrey will never forgive him and he will be much more vulnerable to being influenced into killing Troubled people. And both sides know that Nathan loves Audrey and is quick to think the worst of Duke and that Duke gets nervous and somewhat trigger-happy when faced with a man with a tattooed forearm, but the anti-Troubled faction generally think Duke would win while the Troubled tend to have more faith in Nathan.
56	* Jossed.
57
58	[[WMG: The Crockers CAUSE the Troubles.]]
59	That's why they have the ability to affect them on such a scale. And remember, this wave of the Troubles (as well as Lucy/Audrey's reappearance) only happened AFTER Duke came back to Haven.
60	* Perhaps the Crockers are the power source of the Troubles so when they're killing Troubled, it's not that the troubles are going away, but getting absorbed into the Crocker family. Audrey - since she's anti-magic - in her various incarnations ends up getting close to a Crocker (proximity if nothing else)... which results in their ability getting negated and the energies releasing until they gather enough re-start the troubles. Audrey for her part may not be anti-magic so much as the reason for normalcy; just as the Crockers cause the troubles, she causes the non-troubled.
61	* Still possible, but [[spoiler:Audrey's disappearance will shut them off]].
62	* Jossed.
63
64	[[WMG: Simon Crocker was the Colorado Kid.]]
65	None of the younger generation have any memory of the day the Kid was murdered (as always, what Garland, Vince and Dave, and the Rev know is a mystery). Duke says that he witnessed his father's death by drowning, despite everyone else's insistence that he was murdered, suggesting that one memory was erased and another one implanted to replace it. Lucy apparently killed Simon, and Simon and Garland expect Audrey to kill Duke. Despite this, Simon's ghost expresses no surprise at the death vision laid out for Duke, which is the same one that was laid out for the Kid.
66	* Jossed. The Colorado Kid is named James Cogan.
67
68	[[WMG: Vince and Dave are immortal.]]
69	I have no actual evidence for this. It just seems obvious.
70	* Jossed.
71
72	[[WMG: Haven's Troubled are the descendants of former mythic beings.]]
73	Figure that Haven was founded by people who were considered monsters, gods, magicians and other mythic beings before TheMagicGoesAway. Now whenever the magic flares up again, their descendants can't control the powers they've inherited and you get the Troubles. Audrey is someone who has the power to moderate the wild magic; she needs the memory switcheroo to maintain her role. Vince and Dave are probably immortal beings of some type who help to keep a lid on things; they've probably been around since the founding of the town.
74	* ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin - Haven's full name is Haven for All God's Children.
75
76	[[WMG: Audrey is that universe's version of George Orr (from Ursula K. Le Guin's "Lathe of Heaven").]]
77	In the novel, George Orr was capable of "effective dreaming". Anything he dreamed became retroactively true, with only him remembering how things were before the dream. What makes matters horrifying, is that, in the original reality, [[spoiler:the world had been destroyed in a nuclear holocaust, and as he lay dying in the ruins, he dreamed it NEVER HAPPENED.]] According to the previews of this season (season 3) as shown after ep 301, there is an implication that it would be BAD if Audrey/Lucy/Sara regained her memories. Or, at least, certain memories. Therefore, perhaps there is a terrible secret which, if she remembers it, will cause her to want to erase Haven from existence. She may also either cause, or end, the Troubles in like manner. Or, perhaps, she "dreamed" Haven into existence in the first place, and no one wants her to remember doing so and revealing it/changing it/destroying it.
78
79	[[WMG: Claire is there to eventually take Audrey away.]]
80	* Jossed.
81
82	[[WMG: 'The Guard' are the ones that send Audrey away]]
83	Given that Chief Wuornos didn't have a Tattoo (confirmed by Jordan) it seems he didn't side with them. He wanted Audrey to stick around. He believed Haven needs Audrey. On the other hand Jordan doesn't seem to trust Audrey, which seems to suggest 'The Guard' probably don't either. Which means they probably work to send Audrey away when the troubles come. Plus one of the people with a Tattoo tried to kill Audrey already. Given that The Hunter Meteor Shower is coming, and that this season seems to be about that and 'The Guard' it would make sense for them to be the ones to do it.
84	* Confirmed, sorta. [[spoiler:When Audrey goes, so do the Troubles, and they want to make sure that happens. They apparently forced Lucy to do the same when she tried to refuse.]] Ultimately, though, she is the one that must choose to go.
85
86	[[WMG: Audrey and all her previous iterations are separate constructs.]]
87	The Serial Killer is gathering parts to build the next "Audrey" each iteration only last for so long before wearing out and then a new one is required, actually this even explains the title of the s3 finale "Thanks for all the Memories" the current Audrey is degenerating but her memories are transferred to the next version, instead of some unconnected persons, thus neatly circumventing the disappearance that usually accompanied the Hunter...
88	* Jossed.
89
90	[[WMG: Sarah/Lucy/Audrey's [[spoiler: son]] was fathered by Duke or Nathan.]]
91	There's spoilers that [[spoiler: Duke gets sent back in time to 1955 and Nathan follows to set things right]], so one of them and Sarah have sex while there.
92	* Unlikely. They arrived in August 1955. He was born in August 1956.
93	* Well, [[spoiler: Nathan and Sarah may or may not have had sex, so it's possible it's just an error on the writer's part.]] However, nothing's been confirmed.
94	* And James' birth date could have been faked/changed so Sarah could protect and hide him.
95	* [[spoiler:It's Nathan.]]
96
97	[[WMG: Randall Flagg is going to show up eventually.]]
98	This show is loosely based on Stephen King's writings; he's bound to appear in some form. Unless...''Audrey'' is Flagg...
99	* Pay attention to the credit sequences of each episode. There's a newspaper clip that mentions a "Reverend Flagg". Whether that will ever be a plot point, or just a red-herring meant to throw off King enthusiasts, is yet to be revealed.
100
101	[[WMG: The Bolt Gun Killer is a shapeshifter.]]
102	It would explain how he killed the ATM woman as Grady when Dwight and Jordan found that Grady had been dead for weeks.
103	* It also explains how Audrey spoke with the inn-keeper during her kidnapping when the woman had been dead for hours.
104	* Confirmed, sort of. [[spoiler:It only counts for the ones he skins.]]
105
106	[[WMG: Audrey is going to kill Duke.]]
107	A pattern is emerging: Sarah killed [[spoiler: his grandfather.]] Lucy killed his father. Somehow a Crocker needs to die for the Troubles to be put right. The tattoo symbol has some mystical significance, and will figure into Duke's death, but Audrey will be the one to actually kill him.
108	* Seems Jossed. [[spoiler:Simon wanted Sarah/Lucy dead out of revenge for his grandfather's death, and that was self-defense.]]
109
110	[[WMG: Audrey is the ancestor of everyone in Haven and was the first Troubled.]]
111	She causes the Troubles and Haven is the hotbed of that sort of thing. So perhaps many generations ago, she settled down in Haven for her children to be safe in. They married and multiplied until something (perhaps a Crocker, perhaps other things) started the cycle of disappearances. Also, at some point, she realized that she shouldn't have any more children - whether because the Troubled powers were becoming too dangerous or something else - which is why the Colorado Kid is so significant. He would have been the first child she's had in ages and this would mean he was something special.
112
113	[[WMG: The Bolt Gun Killer was always [[spoiler: Claire]]]]
114	The Bolt Gun Killer has knowledge and memories that imply s/he's been impersonating [[spoiler: Claire]] at least since the Halloween episode. Maybe s/he's not impersonating. Maybe that's his/her original body.
115	* [[spoiler: Jossed: It's Arla Cogan, the wife of the Colorado Kid.]]
116
117	[[WMG: Vince and Dave have shape-shifting abilities of some sort.]]
118	At the very least, Vince can make his [[spoiler:Guard tattoo appear and disappear]] at will. This would also reconcile their apparent aging with the theories that they're really some sort of immortal guardians of Haven.
119	* Jossed.
120
121	[[WMG: The VideoGame/{{Uncharted}} series is Will Brady's lucid dream after willingly going back into a coma.]]
122	Elena is (obviously) based on Audrey. He remembers Moira from her cleaning his hospital room one day, and she shows up in his dream as Chloe. Sully is based on one of his more compassionate doctors, who took the time to talk to him. And he, the slightly-nerdy archaeology professor, gets to live out every boy's fantasy, and be Indiana Jones.
123
124	[[WMG: Sarah/Lucy/Audrey is Eve.]]
125	After being thrown out of Eden, she and Adam gave birth to humanity. But because of their divine creation, humanity was born with Troubles. It was only her love for her children that prevented it from being bad. But as they got worse, she sacrificed herself to the Barn in order protect humanity. Or perhaps she caused Adam's death which then caused the troubles to begin and so she sacrificed herself to the Barn.
126
127	[[WMG: Sarah/Lucy/Audrey is Pandora.]]
128	The troubles being the evils in the box and the Barn being Pandora's box.
129
130	[[WMG: The skinwalker uses its preferred weapon despite the fact that walking seemingly heals blemishes and such...]]
131	...because 1) troubles are partially belief based so it may simply prefer clean skin and 2) it makes it more difficult to create a full mask if there's a lot of damage. It'd be like re-creating a painting after it's been torn to shreds. Not impossible, but just time consuming.
132
133	[[WMG: Wade Crocker will come after Audrey and she'll kill him, continuing the cycle.]]
134	It seems pretty much certain once Jordan recruited him for her plan.
135	* Jossed. [[spoiler:Duke killed him.]]
136
137	[[WMG: The real Lexie [=DeWitt=] is going to show up.]]
138	And it's going to get ''really'' complicated.
139
140	[[WMG: Jennifer is Nathan and Audrey's daughter]]
141	Maybe future Nathan and Audrey sent her back in time to protect her and it was always her destiny to reunite with them.
142
143	[[WMG: The Local Tattoo Artist is a member of The Guard]]
144	Way back in season one, when the tattoo first showed up, a local tattoo artist claimed to have designed it recently. However that's clearly not the case as it's been seen on numerous people across the country, and on some tombstones; it allegedly dates back to medieval times. The artist claimed to have designed it, so as not to expose the existence of the Guard.
145
146	It may be something as simple as a {{retcon}} or ContinuitySnarl, but the fact that the tattoo's significance was apparent even in season one, would make this a very odd oversight for the writers to make.
147	* Implied to be true by the DVD commentary in which the writers say it was intended to be obvious in hindsight that the tattoo artist had lied to them.
148
149	[[WMG: Jennifer is William's daughter]]
150	A name on the list Jennifer receives is "Bill". And she and William are both connected to the barn somehow.
151
152	[[WMG: William and Audrey's original personality were together]]
153	* Maybe they were a couple long before the Troubles started and way before Audrey was Audrey - the original personality. William followed the original personality into the Barn and was freed when it died.
154	** [[spoiler: looks to be Confirmed]]
155
156	[[WMG: Jennifer is the Barn]]
157	Now before you go saying "But she had a life before 6 months ago!", this is a universe where {{Reality Warper}}s, GeniusLoci, and Shapeshifters are a dime a dozen. It really wouldn't be a big stretch to think that the Barn might have another form.
158
159	[[WMG: Jennifer, and Troubled like her, are how the Barn gives Audrey new lives.]]
160	The reason she was connected to the Barn was because she was to be the next personality Audrey would take. But due to the interference, Audrey ended up elsewhere while Jennifer remained connected.
161
162	[[WMG: Jennifer is Howard's replacement.]]
163	Caretaker of the Barn is not a permanent gig; new Caretakers are selected by the old ones when they reach the end of their service. Howard must have realized his time was almost up and groomed an orphan child for the purpose.
164
165	[[WMG:Howard's not dead.]]
166	Yes, I know that AnyoneCanDie on Haven, but Howard is different. Here's what we know:
167
168	1. He is AmbiguouslyHuman.\
169	2. TheAgeless, like Audrey.\
170	3. A RealityWarper.\
171	4. [[StealthHiBye Can]] [[OffscreenTeleportation Teleport]].\
172	5. [[MajorInjuryUnderreaction Didn't seem to react much just before Nathan shot him]].\
173	6. Regularly left The Barn. (Never once got in a fight before? Really?)\
174	7. [[DisappearsIntoLight Disappeared Into Light]].\
175	8. Audrey, Duke, William (and his henchmen) all survived the Barn's implosion.\
176	9. They NeverFoundTheBody.\
177	10. His presence is still felt in the story.\
178	\
179	This isn't someone that can be taken down with a couple of gunshots.
180
181	[[WMG: Speculations on Haven's origin and Dark Tower connections]]
182	Refugees from another level of the Dark Tower came through the door under the lighthouse into our world (through what is essentially Todash Space). Said refugees found they had supernatural abilities in our world, and centuries of interbreeding between these refugees and humans native to this reality resulted in a hybrid population with a disproportionate number of strange powers. After trying and failing to fit in with mundane human society (points if references to Salem are made), they fled back to the portal from which they came. Under the leadership of Reverend Flagg (aka Byron Howard) and built the village of Haven on top of it, to protect it from outsiders, and made a rule that they would never interfere with the affairs of the outside world again. Mara and William broke that rule out of sheer boredom, messing with ordinary people, giving them random and uncontrollable powers (aka Troubles). Howard couldn't undo what they did, so he did the only thing he could with Mara and the Barn, both punishing them and applying at least a temporary resolution to the Troubles.
183
184	[[WMG: Emily Rose is going to get a [[TheCastShowoff Cast Showoff]] episode in Season 5]]
185	She'll basically have a Gollum/Sméagol style meltdown as [[spoiler: Audrey and Mara (and who knows how many other past lives) jockey for control of her body.]]
186
187	[[WMG: There's a mistake in the research.]]
188	It's been discovered that, to end the Troubles for good, Audrey must sacrifice what she loves most of all, and everyone's been assuming that means she must kill Nathan. But that's not quite right. Lucy tried that with James one cycle before, and it didn't work. It's not Audrey that must sacrifice. It's not any of her past personas that must sacrifice. [[spoiler: It's ''Mara'' who has to. She must kill ''William.'' Nobody's figured this out yet because up until recently nobody even knew William existed.]]
189
190	[[WMG: Simon never told Duke about the family Trouble because he was still trying to choose which child of his to pass the responsibility on to when he died.]]
191	Wade complains that Simon was always pitting him and Duke against each other when they were kids. It's possible that he was testing them (and perhaps the other illegitimate brothers Duke is aware of) to see which one he considered most worthy of taking up the family legacy, or even physically and mentally stressing them out in order to force one of them to activate.
192
193	[[WMG: Duke's Trouble was active in 1983]]
194	He carried Nathan to the hospital after the sledding accident. Not completely impossible for a seven-year-old, but it would certainly be a lot easier for a seven-year-old with temporary super strength.
195	* His Trouble is so situation-dependent that it could easily be something that never came up again during that round of the Troubles, and adults would have no problem attributing a one-time physical feat to adrenaline.
196	* This could also add another layer to the way he's drawn to Nathan, if he subconsciously associates him with his first experience of the high that comes from his Trouble.
197	* The thumbtack incident described in the first season episode "Resurfacing" also happened in 1983. The Crocker Trouble puts a whole new angle on Duke slapping Nathan on the back where Nathan is later found to be dripping with blood.
198
199	[[WMG: Mara isn't the original personality]]
200	Howard mentions that Audrey isn't being punished with the barn. However Mara created the troubles, so it seems like it should be a punishment. But if Mara wasn't her original personality, it would explain. The barn gives Audrey a new personality each time. A door was opened to the other world, and only Audrey's original personality could hold it at bay. After releasing all of her love to hold the other world at bay -- she becomes the personality of Mara. Mara doesn't have an Agent Howard to guide her into the new world, and she eventually meets William, and the two create the troubles together. All of Audrey's previous personalities are only suppressed inside of her -- any of them COULD come out. But Mara's is the most powerful and capable.
201
202	[[WMG: Wade and Jennifer are going to come back as ghosts]]
203	* Duke absorbed Kyle Hopkins' Trouble. He buried Wade and said he was going to bury Jennifer.
204
205	[[WMG: Dwight will be the final season's BigBad]]

Context WMG / Haven