| 1 | [[WMG: Talia knew Susan [[spoiler: was a Latent Telepath.]]]] |
| 2 | Think of all the LesYay between them, with even WordOfGod stating they got to be more than just friends. Now, remember Talia in the first season telling Commander Sinclair about what it's like when [[spoiler: two telepaths make love. If Talia and Susan did sleep together, she would have recognized that moment "when all the walls come down, and all the voices stop.]] |
| 3 | * [[spoiler: WordOfGod, JMS said Susan's defenses were up the whole time they were biblically together, so most likely she didn't know.]] |
| 4 | * But was Susan [[spoiler: a strong enough telepath]] for that? Also, at the rebirth ceremony, Ivanova says [[spoiler: "I think I loved Talia."]] If they'd [[spoiler: shared an experience that intense,]] I don't think she'd say "I think." |
| 5 | * Well, Susan did state that [[spoiler: sometimes, she was the one who reached out and touched her mother's mind, so she'd probably be able to "echo" Talia in an intimate situation.]] Plus, it adds a whole level of FridgeBrilliance and metaphor to the early stages of their relationship: Susan afraid that Talia won't be open and accepting of "someone like her," Talia sounding Susan out and trying to confirm if her suspicions are correct and there's a layer there Susan doesn't want to acknowledge publicly. "Flirting in code," as it were, until Talia has proven herself to Susan, and Susan is ready to "come out of the closet" to Talia. |
| 6 | |
| 7 | [[WMG: The Vorlon biosuits are actually host to AI Vorlons who reproduce by BrainUploading.]] |
| 8 | When they leave their encounter suits they exist as an EnergyBeing... briefly. Then all that energy burns off and they die. In "Falling Toward Apotheosis," the two Vorlons were fighting to occupy the same encounter suit (Kosh 2's suit). The first to burn out would die, and the survivor would return to his own encounter suit before he, too, died. In that episode, however, they both killed each other, so we weren't able to see any of this. Instead we were left with the impression of just another god-like EnergyBeing. |
| 9 | |
| 10 | [[WMG:The Hand from Legend of the Rangers are the same as the Thirdspace Aliens]] |
| 11 | * Think about it: the Ancient Good Race imprisons the Hand in Thirdspace. Much later, the Vorlons, having found out about the powers of the Hand, opens their Gate and fights back the Hand. Much later still, Babylon 5 finds the Gate, opens it, and yet again has to fight back the Hand. Some years after that, the Hand are ready to breach the portal that imprisoned them there in the first place. The cloaked beings seen at the end of Legend are the corrupted Vorlons spoken about in Thirdspace. The enemy ships from Thirdspace bear resemblance to Vorlon craft; this may indicate that they still use the dark Vorlons as their prime servants. |
| 12 | ** The role-playing game says that the Hand used to serve the Harbingers (Thirdspace Aliens). |
| 13 | |
| 14 | [[WMG:Sylar from ''Series/{{Heroes}}'' is the Father of the Shadows and Peter Petrelli is the Father of the Vorlons]] |
| 15 | * At some point Sylar will kill and "examine" either [[Series/StargateSG1 Daniel Jackson's or Jack O'Neil]]'s mind, gain the Ancient knowledge, and [[Main/AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence ascend]]. Sylar decides to force his [[TheSocialDarwinist evolutionary theory]] upon the rest of the universe by becoming the Shadows and 'kicking over the anthills' to force the races to evolve. Peter, who at some point walked past the Stargate character that Sylar didn't kill, also ascends and tries to stop Sylar by becoming the Vorlons. |
| 16 | ** Then what? Time travel? Another reality? |
| 17 | *** Time travel is essential to this theory - the Vorlons and Shadows have derailed many civilizations before humanity, and so both Sylar and Peter have to go back far enough to do that. An alternate reality isn't strictly necessary to the theory, but time travel in ''Series/{{Heroes}}'' often creates such things anyway, and they are going a lot farther back than 400 years. |
| 18 | * ''Or''...It's the other way around. Peter's the one who tries to help people, meddling in their affairs for "their own good" and granting wishes. Sylar's the one more likely to simply say "Here! Have a superpower to start off with!" and then watching to see if they make good use of it to improve themselves the way he did. (And remember, telekinesis was one of his original powers.) |
| 19 | |
| 20 | [[WMG: The future post-humans are the First Ones.]] |
| 21 | * It's already been established that time travel is possible. The humans turn into Vorlon-like energy beings and then travel back in time and make sure it all happens like it's supposed to. The whole Vorlon/Shadows "war" is just an elaborate Main/{{Masquerade}}. Jason Ironheart, the first to transcend physicality, is Lorien. |
| 22 | ** It's explicitly stated that Lorien was one of the first sentinent beings in the Universe, immortal from the beginning. |
| 23 | *** So he comes in before anyone else. Who's going to contradict him? Hey... They just said he was the first to ''appear'', not ''how'' he appeared. He never stated that he evolved naturally in the early universe; that's an [[Main/EpilepticTrees unspoken assumption]] the other characters made. And if this WMG is true, then ''anything'' the First Ones say to the lesser races may be suspect, and "explicitly stated" does not equal "true." It's all part of the greater XanatosGambit to ensure that the younger races follow the timeline [[YouCantFightFate exactly as they're meant to]]. |
| 24 | ** Why do they feel any ''need'' to go back into the past and 'ensure things happen the way they're supposed to'? The show's timeline appears stable -- all loops closed, all prophecies coming true. Does anything suggest it can be changed at all? Of course, this is a circular argument -- if the timeline ''is'' fixed, then if somebody from the future popped up in the past, then that ensures that they eventually ''will'' make the journey. But that's subtly different from "let's go back into the past for the express purpose of not changing a single thing!" |
| 25 | *** You've just explained it yourself-- the superintelligent Future Ones see the results of their manipulation, and they realize they ''have'' to go back and make it happen... because they Can't Fight Fate either. They realize they're the only ones who could have done it. Or they just think they are - it works out the same way in the end. |
| 26 | |
| 27 | [[WMG: Lorien isn't the first sentient. He just says he is.]] |
| 28 | Hell, for the above idea, he didn't have to jump in before anyone else evolved sentience, just before they invented interstellar travel. If the first guy you meet after leaving the planet is Lorien, with his SufficientlyAdvanced spaceship, then you might believe him when he says he's the First One. |
| 29 | * Hell, he might truly believe he is the First, when the reality is all the earlier "First First Ones" got killed by [[Series/TheColbertReport bears]] or diseases or something before they achieved interstellar travel. He might be the oldest surviving one, though. |
| 30 | * This completely ignores the fact that Lorien didn't need to develop anything, he was born into giant floating energy ball status and never had any need of a ship, he just used one for the same reason Vorlons use their suits, keeping a relatively low profile. Lorien also appears pretty aware of events around the galaxy so unless he's lying, he'd be aware if there were anyone else around. |
| 31 | |
| 32 | [[WMG:The three chances for Londo to avoid the fate of Centauri Prime destroyed by the Drakh are:]] |
| 33 | * Save the eye that does not see: This should in fact be the I that cannot see. I for an egotist, cannot see for lack of perspective, mad and stupid. |
| 34 | ** Confirmed [[spoiler:by the canon novels.]] |
| 35 | *** I always thought that "the eye that does not see" referred to Adira, since the amulet he had given to her had the form of an eye. |
| 36 | *** "The eye that does not see" could also refer to G'Kar's right eye or to Londo's keeper. |
| 37 | *** When someone commented on Usenet about Londo doing nothing about G'Kar's eye being plucked out, JMS commented "Yeah, it's a real shame Londo didn't save the eye that couldn't see Cartagia's greatness." That could've been a RedHerring, though. |
| 38 | *** I always thought "the eye that cannot see" was The Eye, the artifact which fell into the hands of the Shadows, before being returned to Mollari. |
| 39 | *** Impossible. The prophesy was for upcoming chances so nothing that happened before that episode would count. It may have been one of his missed chances, though. |
| 40 | *** Although the "eye"="I" theory relies on either Morella having been speaking English or those words also being similar in Centauri. |
| 41 | *** Or the LiteraryAgentHypothesis and the MST3KMantra. |
| 42 | * Do not kill the one who is already dead: Mr. Morden was officially dead. He should not have killed him. |
| 43 | ** [[spoiler: Canon novels identify this as Sheridan]] [[{{Jossed}} instead.]] |
| 44 | *** OK, that is weird. After all, he took that option, so why did he then need to use the next one too? No sense the making. |
| 45 | *** Yeah, but the two happened within minutes of each other. Perhaps Londo didn't see letting G'Kar kill him as a chance for redemption, but more like euthanasia. After all, being a Drakh puppet for 17 years can't be fun. |
| 46 | *** Londo didn't NEED to have G'Kar kill him, he CHOSE to have G'Kar kill him. Just because he'd redeemed himself doesn't mean he'd instantly stop doing the right thing; he wanted the Drakh off his world, his people free and safe, and his friends to escape, and his death ensured that would happen. |
| 47 | * Surrender yourself to your greatest fear, knowing it will destroy you: Have G'kar kill him. |
| 48 | ** Confirmed [[spoiler:by the canon novels.]] |
| 49 | ** I always assumed this referred to his Keeper. |
| 50 | *** It couldn't, Londo hadn't been living in fear of the Keeper, in fact he didn't even know about them until right before obtaining his. On the other hand he'd been dreading his foreseen death at G'Kar's hands for decades by the time it comes to pass. |
| 51 | |
| 52 | Why these? These are the events that lead to the Drakh taking vengeance on Mollari and the way out. By killing the emperor, then Mr Morden, he can destroy the shadow vessels. But the Vorlons would have turned back in any case, so it was pointless in the long run: all it did was get the Drakh angry. The mad emperor would have been assassinated eventually (they often are), or he would have done something suicidal while thinking himself a god. By letting G'kar kill him, he gets Vir on the throne; Vir is free of a keeper. |
| 53 | * But what were the two chances he had already missed? |
| 54 | ** Just guessing here (but then, that's what the page is for, right?) but the most obvious 2 points to prevent the burning of Centauri Prime would have been to turn down the ambassadorial post, and not talk to Morden (or just be a bit more careful what he wished for). If he had refused the position on Babylon 5 he wouldn't have been in a position to do everything that he did. The position may have gone to someone with a more level head, who lived in the now rather then in the glory days of the Republic. Someone like Vir, perhaps, who would have kept the position the harmless little diplomatic hole it was meant to be. The second, being careful what he wished for, is pretty self explanatory. If he hadn't made himself such an enticing ally for the Shadows, they wouldn't have looked to set up shop on his planet, thus no need to blow up the Shadow ships, and no angry Drakh looking for vengeance. |
| 55 | ** It seemed almost certain that one of the "lost chances" was when he started the war in "Coming of Shadows." Not only was it the first time that he knowingly made use of the Shadows to attack his enemies, but he did it at a moment when the chances of a real peace between the Narn and Centauri were higher then they had ever been. The other one is harder to guess: both of the possibilities mentioned above seem good guesses. Another one might be his decision to join Refa's conspiracy in "Geometry of Shadows." He knew what Refa was proposing was treason and if he had turned Refa in, perhaps the events of the series don't come to pass. Instead, he went along with the plan, and we know where that ended up. |
| 56 | ** After reviewing the episodes, the two chances would seem to be the aforementioned "The Coming of Shadows" and "The Long, Twilight Struggle", where Londo's Shadow connections caused the Shadows to obliterate the Narn military allowing the Centauri to level Narn with asteroids. Both seem rather highlighted - "TCOS" had Vir rather prominently saying "This is a bad choice!" and in TLTS we see Londo cough as a specific reference to a similar cough from the dream-vision from "TCOS" (along with the superb scene of Londo watching the atrocity). Londo knew his involvement of the Shadows would not only destroy the fleet but facilitate a war-crime by killing innocents, violate treaties, and further involve himself with allies he himself warned against. Hell, even the VORLONS filed a protest of the use of Mass-Drivers. If you've done something which attracts negative attention from the Vorlon government, you've messed up big. |
| 57 | * But the only reasons Londo killed Morden in the first place was because he was angry that Morden had both murdered Adira and played him for a fool using that, and that Morden was a Shadow influence that would have to be eliminated to save Centauri Prime. Killing Morden had no real affect on whether or not the Shadow vessels on Centauri Prime would be destroyed -- that was done before Morden was even officially captured. Regardless of anything, killing Morden had no effect on whether the Drakh would seek revenge or not. |
| 58 | ** If Londo hadn't killed Morden, Morden would probably have sung like a canary to anyone who interrogated him about all the Shadows' secrets, just because he was annoyed that they pissed off and abandoned him to face all their enemies. Hence everyone would have known about the Drakh and their capabilities as soon as the Shadows departed and the Drakh wouldn't have been able to infiltrate Centauri society. |
| 59 | |
| 60 | Alternately, in order to redeem himself, he ''must do all three'' in sequence. And he will have three such opportunities, but each time the three tasks are different. |
| 61 | * The first opportunity was when he tried to distance himself from Morden. The "Eye/I that cannot see" probably refers to the Centauri leadership, symbolized by their "Eye", that cannot see the Shadows for what they are, and he tries to save them by limiting Morden's influence. "Surrendering to his greatest fear" referred to Adira's murder (specifically, accepting it without trying to retaliate), and "the one who is already dead" was Refa, whom he had half-poisoned already. |
| 62 | * The second opportunity was when the Vorlon Planet Killer was threatening Centauri Prime. In this instance the "Eye" is G'kar's eye, the "man who is already dead" is Morden, and his "greatest fear" was the destruction of Centauri Prime (ie he should have "surrendered" to this fear by not trying to eliminate Shadow influence on Centauri Prime and thus provoking the ire of the Drahk, since the Vorlons would have ended up leaving Centauri Prime alone anyways if he had done nothing.) |
| 63 | * The last opportunity is the one he succeeds in. The "I that cannot see" refers to himself (under the Drahk keeper's control he most likely would have been viewed as a mad emperor/danger to interstellar peace, but by defying the Drahk at the end he saves his historical reputation). The "man who is already dead" this time refers to Sheridan, and "his greatest fear" was dying at G'kar's hand. |
| 64 | |
| 65 | [[WMG:Londo never needed his third chance at redemption. He made good on his second.]] |
| 66 | The novels may say something different, but that's never stopped a good WMG before. The circumstances of Londo's death clearly suggest fulfilling his second chance, "Not killing [Sheridan] who is already dead." So if he made good on that, why make him do the third part? Moreover, I have a hard time seeing Londo's "greatest fear" as death at G'Kar's hands. He has known that was coming since before he arrived on B5, and it didn't seem to trouble him unduly. Londo seemed to fear the decline and decay of the Centauri far more than he did his own personal death. I don't see him dying after gaining a promise from Sheridan and Delenn, two people he trusts, that they will protect the Centauri (who now have Vir as their un-keeper-infested emperor) as "surrendering to his greatest fear." |
| 67 | * If he did not fulfill the 3rd one [[spoiler:(letting Gkar kill him)]] as well, the good effect of the 2nd one would have been nullified. The Keeper was already starting to awaken while Delenn and Sheridan were with him[[spoiler: and woke sufficiently to force him to fight Gkar. He knew that Gkar had to kill him before Delenn and Sheridan got to the shuttle, or the Keeper would have forced him to raise the alarm, re-capture and execute them.]] This is clear in both the TV show and the canon novels. |
| 68 | |
| 69 | My theory is that if Londo hadn't found a way to save Sheridan, the Drahk would have overwhelmed Centauri Prime and used it as a launching point to go after the other races. In order to stop the Drahk, Londo would have had to destroy Centauri Prime. Dying with his homeworld gone, and perhaps Vir and a handful of other survivors living as refugees with every chance that the Centauri would be wiped out in a generation or two...that strikes me as much closer to Londo's "greatest fear." |
| 70 | |
| 71 | [[WMG: What were Londo's other two chances?]] |
| 72 | Lady Morella specifically states that he had already missed two other chances. My theory is that they were: |
| 73 | * Becoming the custodian of the Great Machine back in ''A Voice in the Wilderness''(since the episode makes it clear that he is considering it). |
| 74 | * Not ordering the attack on the Narn colony that starts the Narn-Centauri War in ''The Coming Of Shadows'' (since without that, Emperor Turhan's mission of peace might have succeeded). |
| 75 | |
| 76 | Another possibility could have been preventing the bombing of Narn. The look on his face as he watches it happen makes it pretty clear that he thinks this has all gone way too far. |
| 77 | |
| 78 | [[WMG:Different species of Telepath have different abilities.]] |
| 79 | A P12 can sense the location of a ship in Hyperspace, but the Psi corps keeps it secret. So what about the other races? Wouldn't they know about it? |
| 80 | * No group of Telepaths apart from the Centauri Emperor's are seen to maintain a mental link over lightyears, and yet this has massive potential benefits. Also, they seem to be the only Precogs in the universe. |
| 81 | ** Centauri have as a "common trait" the ability to see their own deaths (Londo since basically meeting G'Kar knew he'd kill him, then with a bit of a psi-boost he sees himself being strangled). |
| 82 | *** He already knew he'd die by strangulation from G'Kar, he mentioned it to Sinclair in the first episode. |
| 83 | ** The Drakh (who were a servant race of the Shadows, and likely never tampered with by the Vorlons) were also apparently telepathic with each other over long distances, according to the Centauri Trilogy of books. The "Drakh Entire" (all of the Drakh) knew instantly whatever Shiv'kala knew, and they seemed to "discuss" periodically the progress of Shiv'kala's plans with the Centauri. Plus, individual Drakh have a sort of long-distance telepathy with whatever Keeper(s) they may have produced from their flesh (along with the Keeper dying when its "parent" Drakh dies, even over a distance). |
| 84 | * Minbari Telepaths are shown jamming Shadow vessels lying down on beds with their eyes closed, seemingly not needing line of sight. Lyta has to be watching the Shadow vessel. |
| 85 | ** She was working alone; they were working in concert. While she probably has more raw power than any Minbari tp, spreading out the burden always makes it easier. |
| 86 | *** Three of them where attacking ''four'' shadow vessels. They where in a worse position. Plus we are told that Lyta NEEDED line of sight, no matter how many humans there where, line of sight is needed. |
| 87 | *** Unless that's just what she thinks she needs (after all, she's part-Vorlon now, and Kosh contacted Sheridan in his dreams while dying without line of sight). |
| 88 | *** Obviously, the Minbari get a race bonus for invoking the RuleOfThree (which, as a culture, they seem obsessed with. Much as nerds love the number 42. [[{{Metaphorgotten}} Except it'd be really hard to fit 42 telepaths into that little room]] |
| 89 | * WordOfGod confirmed this in his Usenet posts. |
| 90 | |
| 91 | |
| 92 | [[WMG: There is no afterlife.]] |
| 93 | * All of the Gods worshipped in the universe are reflection of the Vorlons. |
| 94 | * Captain Sheridan's savior said that once someone died, there was no life to restore, merely, leftover shit. |
| 95 | * One alien, the one who captured dead men's spirits, said that his quarries were not souls but the last flickering remnants of consciousness. He said that they disappear, very shortly, after death. |
| 96 | ** Though that's just his belief, not necessarily the truth. The Minbari, while not appearing to have a belief in an afterlife, hold a view that is diametrically opposed to the Soul Hunters'. The show was generally very careful to not present any belief system as objectively right or wrong. |
| 97 | * Londo Mollari's dream of his death ended with a fade to black. |
| 98 | * An evil sufficiently advanced race is the most powerful force in the universe. |
| 99 | * Creator/JMichaelStraczynski is a self-admitted atheist. Just because he doesn't think that we will [[OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions Outgrow Superstition]] doesn't mean that he thinks there is such thing as a [[NoSuchThingAsSpaceJesus Space Jesus]] |
| 100 | * There is "afterlife", namely the future of the species. Whether it is evolution to higher beings, as we saw happen to humans, or being a "dying race" like the Narn and the Centauri, all depends on the choices and actions of individual people. Heaven and hell are metaphors that bring this to personal level. |
| 101 | ** Therefore religions aren't actually ''wrong''. Instead of "outgrowing" them, people should see the ''point'' behind all the layers of mythology, supernatural embellishments, rules and commandments. |
| 102 | |
| 103 | [[WMG: The Alien Probe seen in season three was a Vorlon weapon for use against the Shadows by wiping out their potential allies.]] |
| 104 | * The Probe approaches with a series of difficult questions and promises the user advanced technologies if they answer correctly. Seems like just the sort of thing the Shadows would do to find willing minion races and give them a substantial tech boost. The thing is, if you answer the probe correctly (and thus prove susceptible to outside temptation and willing to bust ass for new toys)the Probe explodes and takes a chunk of your planet with it. Not something the Shadows would want, since that wipes out races that they might find make useful allies/patsies. The Vorlons on the other hand, could use the device to locate non-developed races (those who can't answer the questions, or even lack the technology to realize questions are being asked), then they lodge themselves into the cultural mind as angelic beings and begin breeding a new species of telepaths for the next Shadow vs. Vorlon throwdown. |
| 105 | ** This assumes that the Vorlons would think that a certain amount of technological sophistication is required in order to be susceptible to the temptation of power. Furthermore, this assumes that the Vorlons believe that any race that wishes to advance itself will automatically align itself with the Shadows. Neither of these seem particularly plausible... |
| 106 | |
| 107 | [[WMG: The Alien Probe seen in season three was a Drakh weapon for use against anyone who could conceivably oppose them.]] |
| 108 | * The Probe approaches with a series of difficult questions and promises the user advanced technologies if they answer correctly. The thing is, if you answer the probe correctly (and thus prove a certain level of advancement) it explodes and takes a chunk of your planet with it. The Drakh are shown to use similar looking ship architecture to the probe (and to the Vorlons), and embark on an attempt to conquer the galaxy as soon as the Shadows have left. Furthermore, the Drakh are shown to be on a similar (though slightly higher) level of technology to the Earth Alliance, and other known Galactic powers, and hence could be threatened by them. |
| 109 | |
| 110 | [[WMG: The bioships of the Vorlons are heavily-modified versions of their biological ancestors.]] |
| 111 | Compare the basic shape of the Vorlon ships with that of the EnergyBeing Vorlons- tentacles arranged in a similar layout. Maybe they ''are'' their biological ancestors, after ages of transhumanist(well, transvorlonist) self-modification. |
| 112 | * Or maybe they just like to fly around in their version of HumongousMecha. |
| 113 | * No, their ships are basically uplifted dogs or some loyal pet like that. All of their ships and tech are probably uplifted animal equivalents from their homeworld. |
| 114 | |
| 115 | [[WMG: The events of Babylon 5 are told by an UnreliableNarrator.]] |
| 116 | Namely a human one. It explains why HumansAreSpecial. |
| 117 | ** More likely a Minbari one. A human would have made the Earth-Minbari war a rather better match. |
| 118 | *** The series finale reveals that the whole thing was an [[ShowWithinAShow ISN Special Documentary]], so that leans towards a human viewpoint. There could be any number of reasons why they would want to portray the E-M war as being such a lopsided affair (reasons could of course include it being common knowledge in-universe that it ''was'' such a one-sided affair.) |
| 119 | *** The series finale, "Sleeping in Light," reveals no such thing. There is voice-over narration from various characters, but nothing to indicate that it is any more in-universe than the narration from the opening credits. We do see a number of in-universe records in the season 4 finale, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," but there is nothing whatsoever to indicate that the rest of the show is any less "real" than the framing sequences of the far-future human reviewing those documents. |
| 120 | *** One of the very last lines of that episode (and the show) is an announcer saying "And now, [[KeepCirculatingTheTapes for those of you who have been archiving]] this [[ShowWithinAShow ISN Special Documentary]], [[CreatorCameo the people responsible...]]" [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znNciln7qwY Link.]] Now, The ''actual'' last lines of the show are some fluff about how it was paid for by donations form the An'la'shok Memorial Fund, which might explain any Minbari-favored bits. |
| 121 | *** Depends on how you read the "people responsible" part as being a part of the show proper, or just a way to recognize the crew. And the show being an ISN documentary does not explain "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" which follows events out to a million years in the future, when humans have become like unto the First Ones. |
| 122 | *** JMS mentioned before Sleeping in Light aired (it's on [[http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/110.html this page]]) that it would have a payoff for why narration was always in the past tense. Presumably, the payoff is that the narration is in-universe. There's also no reason the "people responsible" part can't be ''both.'' As for "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," given why it was produced, I think it's safe to say it's one episode that simply isn't part of the documentary. Whether you want to think of it as an enjoyably unique episode that exists outside the documentary or a faux-pas in view of [=SiL's=] meta reveal, it's pretty obvious the ending narration is telling us the show is an in-universe dramatization. |
| 123 | [[WMG: When G'kar was giving Lyta the test to see if she would spy on people for him, he wasn't overlooking the possibility Lyta would scan him and give him an answer he wanted.]] |
| 124 | Remember, G'kar, like Lyta, has been TouchedByVorlons (specifically, Kosh, who inspired him on his road to enlightenment). If Lyta had scanned him, he'd have realized it and dropped the offer immediately. |
| 125 | * Alternatively, Lyta wouldn't even be able to ''initiate'' a scan on G'kar due to his Vorlon influence. This is more likely, since she could also not scan or even ''sense'' Sheridan in the episode when she was arrested. Also, Lyta ''knows'' that she can't do it (which is why she wasn't surprised). |
| 126 | * Alternatively again, G'Kar's brief experience with Dust and/or Kosh unlocked a very small bit of latent telepathy. He's not even as good as Ivanova, but he can tell if he's being scanned. If Lyta had scanned him, he would have known, and she still would have failed the test. |
| 127 | |
| 128 | [[WMG: The part of Earthgov propaganda that accused Sheridan and Delenn of trying to create Human/Minbari hybrids was actually true.]] |
| 129 | Partially true, that is. The details were of course completely made up by Earthgov propaganda to put them in a bad light, but I think that Sheridan and Delenn could indeed have initiated some experiments in this direction (albeit probably not on Babylon 5 but somewhere else). Mainly because that is what I would do if I was either Sheridan or Delenn. It is very obvious that both species have some kind of karmic connection. Humans have Minbari souls, and the Minbari already have some Human DNA in their gene pool from Valen's children. Trying to strengthen the bond between them also on a genetical level seems just logic to me. Of course, Sheridan and Delenn would have used volunteers only and never planned to force change on the human species as a whole: ''that'' part was just made up by Earthgov. Also, with the triluminarys gone, they might have had serious problems with the experiments, which is the reason why we never see any Human/Minbari hybrids except Delenn and Sinclair. |
| 130 | * It goes without saying that Sheridan and Delenn were conducting a great deal of... personal experimentation in this area. |
| 131 | * Minbari-Human soul thing is Minbari a misinterpretation of what the trliumaries do. It's given in canon that the triluminaries detect Sinclair/Valen's DNA. They glow for humans because all humans--including Sinclair--share the vast majority of their DNA. There is no soul transference and therefore no need to balance the soul books by interbreeding the species. |
| 132 | ** Whether Delenn knows this is anyone's guess. |
| 133 | ** Given ''where'' in canon? |
| 134 | *** Season 4 Episode 9, Atonement. Further confirmed by Word of God here: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/075.html |
| 135 | * The only hybridization going on is David Sheridan and whatever descendants he might have fathered. Assuming, of course, that he survives to have kids and decides to have them. |
| 136 | ** And any other Human/Minbari relationships that happen. |
| 137 | *** Although these probably wouldn't result in offspring - Sheridan and Delenn only conceived a child together because she was partly human, and according to Franklin the odds were hugely against even that being possible. |
| 138 | * I couldn't imagine Sheridan condoning that kind of experimentation on others. |
| 139 | ** And I couldn't imagine Sheridan believing in the "shared souls" concept for a second. |
| 140 | *** IIRC, he said as much in one episode, when the concept was explained to him. Considering he only took Minbari courtship rituals seriously to humor Delenn, it makes him believing in the shared souls idea to be even less likely. |
| 141 | |
| 142 | |
| 143 | [[WMG: The plague that extinguished the Markab could ''not'' jump over to other species.]] |
| 144 | The Pak'ma'ra that died in the same episode most probably died of something completely else. Think of it. ''If'' the disease could jump over to other species, it's just ''highly'' improbable that it kills the whole Markab species in such a short time without jumping over and doing a great deal of damage to other species as well, ''even though'' Franklin had found a cure. Also, the Markab apparently were humanoids while the Pak'ma'ra... are not. So, it can be assumed that the biological differences between Markab and Pak'ma'ra are much greater than between Markab and, let's say, Centauri, or Humans. And I really don't buy the thing about neurological similarities between both species. So, ''if'' the disease could jump over to other species, it would most probably jump to some humanoid species ''first''. |
| 145 | * Two arms, two legs and a head do not human-like biology make, nor does a different body shape preclude it. It is ''entirely'' possible that those species had, by sheer chance, similar physiology in that area while races (like us) who merely ''look'' more like the Markab are in fact too different in biology to be affected. |
| 146 | * Given what Pak'ma'ra eat, it is entirely possible that it could only be transmitted between species by eating infected flesh. |
| 147 | ** You may be right. |
| 148 | * Well few things, one it was clearly stated that the disease only affected a specific type of cell used by a small number of species for neural conduction, so humanoid or not, any species with a similar enough cell could potentially be infected. Now as to why it wouldn't kill all the other species as fast and completely as the Markab, two things; one the Markab all decided to wall them selves off, all together, and so created the perfect environment for an epidemic to eradicate them (large number of hosts, tightly packed, poor to non-existent medical facilities/supplies) while the other species that had people become infected were probably quick to isolate those individuals before they could spread it to the rest. Two it takes quite a bit for a virus to jump species barriers like that, so it's not at all unbelievable that the version that was able to infect Pak'ma'ra wasn't quite as good at it as it was at infecting Markab, and so spread/killed slower, allowing time for the cure Franklin developed to be used for all non-Markab, (and yes the most likely scenario for HOW the virus managed the cross species jump is something the Pak'ma'ra ate.) |
| 149 | ** the Markab also seemed to view it as an "unclean" disease/punishment of god - similar to the way AIDS was viewed in the U.S. due to the portion of the population it first showed up in. This may have affected their research, and put them behind in finding effective treatment and/or a cure The Markab doctor that Dr Franklin consulted with seemed, at the very least, embarrassed/ashamed when talking about the disease. Leaving aside the fact that the disease may (or may not) have been less effective once it crossed species, Dr. Franklin (or other doctors) may have been able to adapt the cure for the Markabs to other species affected. |
| 150 | |
| 151 | [[WMG: The Centauri evolution was influenced by ''both'' Vorlons ''and'' Shadows at some point in their history.]] |
| 152 | Of course, not at the ''same'' point. There ''are'' some hints of past Shadow influence on the Centauri in the series, but that doesn't explain why Centauri do have telepaths. But this ''can'' be explained if they also had some Vorlon influence at some time. The Centauri's precog abilities were probably of Shadow origin, since no other Vorlon-influenced species has them. Also, the Vorlons were probably there ''before'' the Shadows, because it's doubtful they would deal with a species that already had Shadow influence. Remember, this was also the reason why they left the Narn for themselves when the Shadows established a base on Narn. Thinking of it, the Centauri and the Narn ''do'' share some suspicious similarities in their respective histories. Which is probably the main reason why they hate each other that much. |
| 153 | * Both the Vorlon's and Shadows had a bad tendency of trying to influence races that the other side happened to be grooming. It was supposed to be part of the reason that both races where so bitter by the last Shadow War. |
| 154 | * The Vorlons are explicitly said in the show to have influenced Narn evolution before the Shadows established a base there. The Narns had telepaths. The book of G'Quan called them "Mind-walkers" or "Mind-riders," IIRC. When G'Quan led the telepaths against the Shadows, the Shadows exterminated all Narn telepaths and their families, and the dormant genetic conditions for telepathy (according to G'Kar) were never strong enough to reassert themselves in Narn evolution. This is why G'Kar was able to use Dust despite there being no Narn telepaths: it wasn't always the case that there weren't any. Assuming (as we probably should) that they were created or bred by the Vorlons, this makes the Narns another example of a species shaped by both Vorlon and Shadow influences. In both cases Shadow influence probably came later in each species' evolution. While the Vorlons obviously prefer not to deal species that have had significant Shadow influence, we can't say the same about the Shadows. They frequently interfere with species whose development was shaped by the Vorlons. |
| 155 | * Recall that Centauri once had ''two'' sentient races, the major Centauri holiday evolved from decadent feasts held during that time to celebrate the fact that they where not dead yet. The Centauri where more technologically advanced, but the other race was more physically powerful. I think the Centauri where guided by the Vorlons, and the other race by the Shadows. When the Shadows lost their race they then took this rather un-shadow like race (physically not that impressive, hierarchical, autocratic etc.) and meddled with it as a form of payback. Given that the Centauri managed to build an empire their homeworld must be somewhere of reasonable strategic merit, perhaps enough that both the Vorlons and Shadows wanted to control the race that evolved there, and in the end neither really did. |
| 156 | ** The main problem with all of this is that when Londo looked at Kosh, he saw nothing, which indicates the Vorlon never tinkered with the Centauri. There's nothing in the series saying that telepaths are the sole creation of the Vorlon, Centauri telepaths could have developed naturally. One theory could be that the Shadows influenced the Centauri, while the Xon were influenced by the Vorlon. It could be one of the reasons the Shadows like the Centauri; killing another sentient race on their own planet to ensure their survival is exactly the kind of thing the Shadow would like in a species. |
| 157 | *** Maybe he just lied. Going by the RPG, the Great Maker venerated by the Centauri was apparently an alien (not Vorlon-like) that gave help to the stone age Centauri and hunted the Xon as a sport (at least the earliest Centauri-made cave paintings of the Great Maker show him teaching them some basic knowledge, while those made by the Xon show him an an enemy), and the Xon has absolutely ''no reason'' to attack the Centauri (who at the time of the first encounter were completely peaceful) nor the knowledge to build oceangoing ships (still being in their stone age) but did both things. Chance is that Londo saw a winged Centauri that was from a religion displaced by the Great Maker's, and said he saw nothing because he had no idea of what it was, because he saw what appeared to be tangible proof that the Centauri religion was false, or because he realized that they were all being manipulated by the Vorlon and his efforts to bring back glory to the Centauri had all been for nothing. |
| 158 | *** WordOfGod (from the commentary track for that episode) is that Londo saw nothing because he was influenced by the Shadows. The Shadows probably have some tricks to strengthen the minds of their associates against Vorlon influence, as evidenced by Mr. Morden hiding from Kosh in his first appearance. Vorlons are extremely telepathic, Kosh should have sensed the Shadow agent just around the corner. Of course, the Vorlons could detect Shadow Agents, they aren't that useful as Agents. It seems likely the Shadows just undid whatever programming the Vorlons put in everyone else that let them project a mass telepathic illusion relatively easily. Thus, Londo saw nothing. |
| 159 | |
| 160 | [[WMG: The "Martian" seen in Derek Jarman's movie about the life of Ludwig Wittgenstein was actually a Soul Hunter.]] |
| 161 | At the end of the movie, Wittgenstein is shown on his deathbed with the "Martian" sitting next to him. In his hand, he holds a strange, glowing artifact. |
| 162 | |
| 163 | [[WMG: Epsilon III is, in fact, [[Franchise/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheGalaxy Magrathea]].]] |
| 164 | * Also, Zathras and Slartibartfast are the same species, and the Thirdspace Aliens might be the Krikkits. |
| 165 | |
| 166 | [[WMG: Sheldon from 'Series/TheBigBangTheory'' is a Minbari/human hybrid.]] |
| 167 | See [[WMG/TheBigBangTheory WMG/The Big Bang Theory]]. |
| 168 | |
| 169 | [[WMG: Swedish meatballs are Lorien's favorite food.]] |
| 170 | He subtly manipulated every sentient race in the galaxy into one day creating a dish exactly like it so that he would always be able to eat it anywhere he visited. |
| 171 | |
| 172 | [[WMG: Zathras' native tongue has no pronouns.]] |
| 173 | * Yes it does, it's just all personal and descriptive pronouns are the same word, zathras (lower case z) |
| 174 | ** There are different words for each pronoun, distinguished by subtle differences in pronunciation. For example: "zathras" vs "zathras". |
| 175 | |
| 176 | [[WMG: Lt. Corwin was in love with Captain Lochley]] |
| 177 | Think about it: How could a "love bat" be anything else by a horribly-misguided love gift? |
| 178 | * It wouldn't be the ''first'' time he did something like that. Remember the roses that he [[BlatantLies found outside Commander Ivanova's door]]? |
| 179 | |
| 180 | [[WMG: Londo Mollari is at Time Lord, and the giant portrait of himself is his TARDIS]] |
| 181 | |
| 182 | [[WMG: David Sheridan Junior is [[spoiler:Sinclair/Valen reincarnated]] ]] |
| 183 | * As well as being the name of his granddad, David is also [[spoiler:Sinclair's]] middle name |
| 184 | * According to Zathras' ramblings, [[spoiler:Sinclair]] is the 'beginning' of the story, Delenn and John are the 'middle' and 'end' of the story who go on to create the next story - they 'create' their son David who is the 'beginning' of the next story - the same as [[spoiler:Sinclair]]. Whatever the story is. (Of course Zathras might just be crazy.) |
| 185 | * Souls and reincarnation do seem to exist in the B5 universe - there had to have been something inside the Soul Hunter's glowing balls, and the Minbari have what looks like a scientific method of measuring whether someone has a formerly Minbari soul, using the triluminaries. |
| 186 | ** It's canon that the triluminaries detect Valen's DNA, not souls. |
| 187 | *** Canon where? I've only ever seen this mentioned in fanfiction. |
| 188 | *** Season 4 Episode 9, Atonement. Further confirmed by WordofGod here: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/075.html |
| 189 | ** The truth about the Soul Hunters was explicitly given in the episode -- After Franklin calls it impossible, he goes on to describe *exactly what it is*: "Well, this is nonsense. It's patent superstition, can't be done. With the right technology, maybe you could encode the personality matrix and produce a clone of someone's mind, but the idea of taking someone's soul?" The show does nothing to contradict this, and it fits exactly what happens. Soul Hunters copy people into the Matrix! |
| 190 | |
| 191 | [[WMG: Delenn is an exhibitionist]] |
| 192 | * Shan Fal rituals don't REALLY require observers, Delenn just enjoys being watched during more ahh, intimate moments. |
| 193 | * Which also explains why G'Kar's eye was in such a prominent place in the bridal suite on Delenn and John's wedding night - he didn't try to hide it because it was all her idea in the first place. |
| 194 | * Given how she tended to parade her relationship in front of people who really shouldn't have seen it, there's not much room for doubt that she really is an exhibitionist. You don't go kissing your bf in front of your own crew (on the White Star) or professing your eternal love in a TV interview unless you're into that kind of thing.... |
| 195 | * Then why didn't her political enemies call her a hussy? That sort of thing would have been SeriousBusiness in a culture like the Minbari. She was accused of hubris and of racial impurity but except for the later no one implies that she went against Minbari ideas of sexual [[ProperLady propriety]]. Surely if she gave such a chance her enemies would seize it. They however did not. |
| 196 | ** And why was she so reluctant to wear the lingerie Sheridan bought for her? |
| 197 | *** Well that's just assuming it was lingerie. It could have been anything she considered silly, like bunny ears. |
| 198 | *** The bunny ears thing is hilarious. But considering that Delenn is the equivalent of a Senator, how do we know the Minbari just don't make allowances for eccentricities? It's not like she was caught playing footsie in the airport bathroom or someone complaining about a stain on her blue dress. They probably would have been more upset that it was with Sheridan Starkiller than the fact that she was in a consensual relationship with the local military governor. |
| 199 | ** Maybe exhibitionism just isn't unusual on Minbar. Maybe exhibitionism is one of their [[PlanetOfHats hats]]. |
| 200 | ** Exhibitionism is so blase to them they all wear lots of body-concealing clothes because it's sexually arousing. |
| 201 | ** Maybe having the third party is expected. RuleOfThree and all that. Sometimes they participate, sometimes they just sit in the adjacent room and work on their motorcycle to pass the time while fulfilling their cultural obligations. |
| 202 | |
| 203 | [[WMG: Narn Bodyguards for Telepaths during the Shadow war]] |
| 204 | G'kar insists that all of the telepaths employed to fight the Shadows be paired off with a Narn bodyguard, this was intentional. He was trying to Invoke a BodyguardCrush and breed telepathy back into the Narn, which was one of his personal goals since the show's pilot. |
| 205 | * Alternatively, the bodyguards had the order to steal some DNA from the telepaths. This shouldn't be too hard to do. |
| 206 | ** It wouldn't even have been stealing. If you're a bodyguard, there is a very good chance that at some point, you and the person you are guarding will both survive an attack but suffer wounds. If that happens, you should obviously treat their wounds before your own, which leaves you with a bunch of bandages and gauze soaked in telepath blood. All that you would need is a small medical-storage unit. |
| 207 | |
| 208 | [[WMG: In "In the Beginning", Londo is an unreliable narrator.]] |
| 209 | Londo's account puts most of the major players in his time at Babylon 5 in central roles in the Earth/Minbari war, but some parts of this don't seem supported by evidence from the series. For example, Sheridan, Franklin, and G'kar give no indication at any point that they met before coming to B5. It's also unlikely that the Minbari would have let "Starkiller" go no matter what he said to Delenn. The more logical explanation is that Londo put people he knew (and more importantly, people who were already in the story) into the peace talks section instead of whatever nameless folks were actually there to keep the kids interested. Whether he actually sabotaged the meeting or was just grabbing some extra guilt to wallow in is up for debate. |
| 210 | |
| 211 | [[WMG: Vorlon Planet Killers do reduce their astral body targets to rubble]] |
| 212 | I remember there being some contention on whether or not [=VPKs=] actually blow up the planet or not, since some of the planets had survivors on them. My theory is that they do reduce the target to rubble, just that sometimes the Shadow Base was on the moon. The moon raining down debris is sure apocalyptic, but not something an advanced species can't evacuate with enough ships and significant casualties. |
| 213 | * The refugees mentioned could also be those who managed to leave the planet before the Vorlons got there. |
| 214 | |
| 215 | [[WMG: Inter Stellar Alliance = Minbari religious caste Empire]] |
| 216 | * They move Capital of ISA from B5, a purpose built United Nations InSpace, to Minbar and nuke B5. Why? |
| 217 | * Season 4, penultimate episode, Delenn does the tanks on the lawn speech and says that the new ISA has an elected President and Council and all members of ISA agree to accept the independent authority of the Rangers. |
| 218 | ** An army trained to think like Minbari swears Allegiance to the One and has absolute authoritah. They don't swear allegiance to the Alliance or even the President of the Alliance. |
| 219 | *** If the Alliance parliament knows what's good for it, it will elect the One as President. If not... |
| 220 | * Delenn seemed to be a good guy when she gave Workers the majority. National Parliaments have no power under Tyranny. |
| 221 | ** The ISA Advisory committee (the closest thing to an ISA parliament) has no real power and isn't, by the established constitution, able to contradict the president's orders. Except on the very rare occasions when the plot requires it. |
| 222 | * If anything, the ISA is '''Delenn's''' personal empire. The army either swears allegiance to her directly or, in later years when she's President, to Sheridan and then Ivanova. Both of them will do absolutely anything Delenn wants if she pushes hard enough. |
| 223 | ** The only time the ISA refused to do Delenn's bidding is when--inexplicably--they refused to help recover her son from the Drakh/Centauri. This lead to her and Sheridan idiotically surrendering themselves to the Drakh (Sheridan's War Without End flashforward is part of this) in the hopes that they'd release David. Stupid, stupid, writing. |
| 224 | |
| 225 | [[WMG: Delenn is the corporeal manifestation of the universe's collective will]] |
| 226 | * In other words, she's god in mortal form. |
| 227 | * The series is dripping with anvilicious hints that she's more than "merely" a special person touched by prophecy. |
| 228 | * Everyone who comes in contact with her eventually falls under the spell of her charisma and accepts that she's right about everything. |
| 229 | * She always knew to put to the right people in the right places to further her interests, months or even decades before anyone could have seen the benefit of her choices. |
| 230 | * As with Valen and Sheridan, Delenn's body was never found. |
| 231 | * The universe tends to neatly dispose of anyone and anything that stands in her way, often without requiring her personal intervention. |
| 232 | * Circumstances always collude to her benefit when disaster lands on others, or even when her own mistakes bring disaster on others. |
| 233 | ** Dukhat's death meant that she had no senior rival to oppose her leadership during the Shadow war. |
| 234 | ** Picking Sheridan as her second for the war effort and concealing Anna meant that Lorien would be found and, as a result, that both the Shadows and Vorlons would leave. |
| 235 | ** Breaking the Grey Council lead to a civil war which ended in a way that made Delenn recognized by all three castes as undisputed savior/spiritual leader of Minbar. |
| 236 | ** Persuading G'Kar to be Londo's bodyguard in S5 meant that G'Kar would be able to save Delenn's life seventeen years in the future. |
| 237 | ** The retreat of the First Ones and Sheridan's shortened lifespan left Delenn as uncontested ruler of the galaxy for as many years. |
| 238 | * That, or the whole series is told in a revisionist fashion by her supporters and/or descendants, or is told by using her diary/journal as a main supporting document. Remember that guy that was trying to reconstruct history in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars"? How do we know that wasn't closer to the truth? |
| 239 | |
| 240 | [[WMG: Delenn and Ivanova became lovers after Sheridan's death]] |
| 241 | * Dogwhistles galore. |
| 242 | * Ivanova was openly bi. |
| 243 | * Delenn's mannerisms around both Mayan and Sleeping In Light's Ivanova were somewhat suggestive that she could become as interested in women as she was in so many men (*cough* Neroon-Delenn UST, Dukhat-Delenn UST, S5 Lennier-Delenn unresolved something-or-other *cough*) that came near her.... |
| 244 | * Ivanova worked with/for Delenn for many years and never married. |
| 245 | * When Delenn first had hair, (and had never showered or washed in the way humans do), she was pretty desperate for Ivanova (specifically) to ''bathe'' her. |
| 246 | * Delenn and Ivanova have lost pretty much everyone they cared deeply about (both of them lost their birth-families and their male lovers) ''except for each other.'' They're not going to let go of each other. |
| 247 | * When Ivanova died, Delenn ordered her servants to build a spectacular monument to Ivanova's memory and decorate it with flowers ''for eternity.'' |
| 248 | |
| 249 | [[WMG: Delenn's reemergence in Deconstruction of Falling Stars was a message for ascended-Sheridan.]] |
| 250 | * She refused to accept Lennier as dead because she never saw a body. Sheridan left no body. ''She's not going to accept Sheridan as dead.'' |
| 251 | * As a high priest and religious zealot, she'd know that Valen's body was never found and may draw some conclusions about what happened to him. |
| 252 | * She was likely aware of Kosh's message to Sheridan telling him to return to Coriana 6 for pick up. |
| 253 | * Defending Sheridan's honor above all else from skeptical historians was an odd choice to make given how much she valued the contributions everyone else made to the Shadow war and ISA. Delenn, being as egalitarian as she is manipulative, would not have ignored all the other people who supported her unless she had an ulterior motive. |
| 254 | ** Odd choice? He was her husband for crying out loud. |
| 255 | * That ulterior motive, probably, was to flatter ascended-Sheridan and tell him that Delenn would dearly like to be taken beyond the rim now she is nearing the end of her life. |
| 256 | ** Highly unlikely, if you remember Delenn's beliefs then she wouldn't want to go beyond the Rim and live forever as that would permenantly diminish future generations of Minbari as her soul would not join the others and be reborn in them. |
| 257 | |
| 258 | [[WMG: David Sheridan (Jr) and his parents are estranged.]] |
| 259 | * He wasn't around when his father died. Duh. No child would do that voluntarily unless he had turned his back on his father. |
| 260 | * If he wasn't estranged before [=SiL=] and parents deliberately kept him away from his father's death, he'll certainly be estranged by the end of [=SiL=]. That is the kind of offense that few people could ever forgive. |
| 261 | ** Unless they hid Sheridan's limited lifespan from their son he would have known this would happen when he started training as a Ranger, so he was very likely to have become estranged before the actual death of his father. |
| 262 | |
| 263 | [[WMG: Delenn intended for Lennier to be a surrogate son to her and Sheridan and had David when that didn't work out.]] |
| 264 | * She clearly loved Lennier by S5 but her feelings seemed to be more like those between family rather than those between romantic lovers. |
| 265 | * This may have been a replication of whatever emotional arrangement she had with Dukhat. |
| 266 | * Defacto adoption may also be normal (or at least common) between high-ranking Minbari and their long-term personal aides. |
| 267 | * Delenn is too much a master of xantos gambits to get herself pregnant by accident. |
| 268 | * Now that is ''not'' a wild guess. That seems like what she was thinking. |
| 269 | |
| 270 | [[WMG:Vorlons were originally bipeds, and deliberately favored bipeds among the lower races]] |
| 271 | * Virtually all the lower species, even the insectoid Gaim and the cuttlefish-esque Pak'ma'ra, are bipeds. Virtually all the lower species have been TouchedByVorlons. This is not a coincidence; the Vorlons deliberately made us in their image (or, alternatively, Lorien's image). They also programmed the lesser races to react very negatively to anything with more than four limbs in order to make it harder for the Shadows to appeal to us; this is why humans have an instinctive aversion to insects and spiders. |
| 272 | ** Well this is more awesome than it being because of the shortage of non-bipedal actors queuing up to play characters in a TV show. ;) |
| 273 | *** WordOfGod is that the Gaim, like other insects, can be bred by the Queen to meet certain criteria (like how ants secrete certain enzymes to create workers or soldiers as needed). The Gaim Ambassador was specifically designed to fit in with other races, hence, zie was made to be bipedal. |
| 274 | |
| 275 | [[WMG: Something was manipulating the Vorlons and Shadows; or They Vorlons and Shadows won afterall]] |
| 276 | |
| 277 | * Either A) the Vorlons have control of time to send Babylon 4 back. Or B) an unknown entity does and the Vorlons that appeared in War without End were just along for the ride. |
| 278 | |
| 279 | * If A) then the Vorlons would have known that Sheridan would tell them to "Get the hell out of our galaxy" |
| 280 | |
| 281 | * If that was the case that was what they wanted all along. If that is true, either the Vorlons defeated the Shadows or they were cooperating with them all along. |
| 282 | In either case Sheridan, Delenn, and Sinclair were each an UnwittingPawn. |
| 283 | |
| 284 | * Alternatively neither Shadows nor Vorlons predicted what happened. |
| 285 | |
| 286 | * If so, something must have set up the machines that enabled the StableTimeLoop. |
| 287 | |
| 288 | * In which case, that Something was manipulating the Vorlons and Shadows the way they in turn were manipulating the Younger Races. |
| 289 | |
| 290 | * Conclusion: Either there is Something Else. Or the Vorlons achieved their real objective. Or both the Vorlons and the Shadows achieved their real objective. |
| 291 | |
| 292 | What was Something Else? Other speculations have been given already. More are welcome. |
| 293 | |
| 294 | * Hmm, Something Else could be the Great Machine, which is sentient. Or run by beings deep in the heart of it that even Draal and the Zathrases (Zathrasi?) didn't know about. There's a lot we never found out about that machine - and it was the source of the tachyon beam that allowed the White Star to travel back in time to grab B4. |
| 295 | |
| 296 | * It's also a bit of a coincidence that B5 was built right on top of the Machine. Possibly another manipulation? |
| 297 | |
| 298 | [[WMG: The Warrior Caste was Suborned by the Shadows]] |
| 299 | |
| 300 | * After a thousand years of stability it is hard to imagine a mere foreign policy failure causing a civil war, unless... |
| 301 | |
| 302 | * There hadn't been a large foreign war in hundreds of years either, in which case... |
| 303 | |
| 304 | * Prosecuting the Earth-Minbari war would also have been an anomaly...furthermore |
| 305 | |
| 306 | * The Earth-Minbari war could have been engineered if the warrior caste had help from the shadows. Furthermore... |
| 307 | |
| 308 | * The Human and the Centauri governments were also largely suborned by the Shadows and tentative feelers were put out to the Narn (namely Mr Morden's visit to G'kar). It would be strange if there had not been a similar visit to Minbari leaders. Londo was not the only Centauri they visited; why should Delenn's rejection be assumed to mean rejection by all Minbari leaders?...furthermore |
| 309 | |
| 310 | * The Warrior caste were suspiciously unwarlike when the Shadows arrived. Yet they were remarkably warlike toward the humans and the other Minbari...to sum |
| 311 | |
| 312 | The Warrior caste behaved in a manner, not much different from how they would have behaved if they ''had'' been suborned by the shadows...under this interpretation... |
| 313 | |
| 314 | * The Minbari civil war could be interpreted as an attempt by the Warrior Caste to create a massive cover-up by taking complete control of the government to prevent their behavior being found out. |
| 315 | |
| 316 | * To conclude: the warrior caste was working for The Shadows all along. |
| 317 | |
| 318 | The Wind Swords in particular probably were at least, even if the others weren't. Their attempt to dispose of Sinclair/Valen (by setting the Vorlons against him no less) would seem to hint at this. Plus, their harboring of Deathwalker (the last of a race that may very well have been Shadow proteges themselves--some things Deathwalker said certainly reflected their "strength through conflict and evolution" philosophy) would be another hint. One wonders if the Dilgar were actual Shadow proteges from the last war 1000 years ago, if in fact they were spacefaring back then (see separate entry on this below). |
| 319 | |
| 320 | [[WMG: Sinclair/Valen recognized that the Vorlons and Shadows were both amorally manipulating the Younger Races, and left hints to it in Minbari culture]] |
| 321 | |
| 322 | * "We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light". Minbari tradition seems to see this as "protecting the light from the darkness", but it equally can be interpreted as "rejecting the 'light'/Vorlons and 'darkness'/Shadows, and chosing a middle way". |
| 323 | |
| 324 | [[WMG: The coin used to decide whether Londo or G'Kar would be evil fell down a drain.]] |
| 325 | Think about it. WordOfGod says that a coin was tossed to see whether Londo or G'Kar would end up being villainous; the choice was never revealed. Over ten years after the show ended we ''still'' can't figure which one was supposed to be the bad guy, because both Londo and G'Kar were just that complex and fleshed-out as characters. If the coin fell down a drain or disappeared in some other way than maybe JMS just decided to give them both some heroic and some villainous traits. |
| 326 | * Was it ever actually said that how the coin '''landed''' would make the decision? Maybe JMS counted how many times it flipped over in the air, and decided that's how many times Londo and G'Kar will go back and forth as the bad guy. |
| 327 | |
| 328 | [[WMG: Clark had a Drakh Keeper]] |
| 329 | Clark's near destruction of the Earth was the first attempt by the Drakh to do so, which they followed up in "Call to Arms". The "SCORCHED EARTH" message was so convoluted and unlikely because it was his human mind sneaking a warning past the Keeper. |
| 330 | * Wow. Now that makes me feel sad for the man. I think he still helped with the assassination of Santiago, otherwise no need for the call with Morden. However soon after that, one was put on him to keep him in line after they learned he wanted to keep the Shadow vessel they found. |
| 331 | ** He either got it after that (if he did), or after the Shadows departed--which no doubt threw the regime into a bit of chaos or uncertainty (which was actually mentioned in passing in an episode), with the Drakh moving to pick up where the Shadows left off (as they did on Centauri Prime). They probably infiltrated both worlds in their plan to find a new base of power to succeed the Shadows after Z'ha'dum blew up--why put all their eggs in one basket? |
| 332 | *** The Shadows may have helped to place Clark, but the idea of killing President Santiago and turning Earth towards totalitarianism belongs to Psi Corps. Telepaths do see and feel the Keepers, when they are "sitting" on a person - that's why Londo dismissed the retinue of telepath ladies, when becoming the Emperor, and the only human with a Keeper shown in the series was a member of Martian resistance, known for its hatred of telepaths. The Keeper is a living and sentient being, it would've been found on Clark's corpse, and when the Keeper and its bearer are threatened, it slugs it out, not shoots itself. No, unfortunately Clark is flesh and blood human villain - just an ordinary man, who ascended. |
| 333 | |
| 334 | [[WMG:Sheridan's interpretation of his dream was wrong and Lorien was "the man in between"]] |
| 335 | "the man in between is looking for you": in between life and death, in between the Vorlons and Shadows, looking for a member of the Younger Races who was ready to stand up to the Vorlons and Shadows and end their manipulation. |
| 336 | |
| 337 | [[WMG: [[TheMole Jack]] did not survive for long after we last saw him.]] |
| 338 | SmugSnake though he may have been, Jack would have been way too much of a liability to Clark to risk keeping him around, lest the Truth find a way of getting out. What better way to tie up loose ends than to have him ThrownOutTheAirlock after he was transferred to the second ship? |
| 339 | |
| 340 | [[WMG: The Streib are extinct]] |
| 341 | Given the Streib practice of abducting and torturing random people and [=EarthGov's=] xenophobia under Clark, they were probably wiped out after Sheridan's report on his abduction reached Earth. They did space all their experimental subjects once caught, after all. And Earth certainly has the military power to stomp on one relatively isolated and weak race that's hated by everyone who knows about them. |
| 342 | * Streib have artificial gravity and I believe half-decent military technology. They're not really going to be a pushover. IIRC, they're an offshoot of the Vree, who do not suck. They just piss off people like the Minbari. Plus, I think they're Shadow Agents, they've got some really nifty backing, and are in with Clark's friends. |
| 343 | * Remember that Londo also had that dream/vision/flash memory of the Streib looking down on him, instruments in hand, in the episode before he received the Keeper. I think it was implied that the Streib was prepping him somehow for reception of the Keeper (they were the Shadow HenchmenRace that seemed to have [[PlanetOfHats the role of medical/surgical specialists]], something also seen on Z'Ha'Dum in the Technomage Trilogy IIRC). Londo remembering the Streib in a post-dream-like manner was probably the result of however the Streib alter the consciousness of their victims--sort of like some "alien abductee" stories involving the Greys, who the Streib were kind of implied to be. So they existed, like the Drakh, even after their masters/gods departed the galaxy. |
| 344 | * Earth never made war on them--Sheridan's report probably just went into some file (an X-File?) and disappeared. Or what the hell, could have been used (like the footage of the Shadow ship) to "further the program" of generating anti-alien paranoia in Earth's population to build the Clark police state. Yeah, that's probably what they did. |
| 345 | * The Streib's fate depend ''entirely'' on Clark. From what we've seen, one of their ships is easily destroyed by the beam weapons of a similar-sized ''Omega'', and we know that Earthforce has placed those weapons even on the old ''Hyperion''s. Even going only with the ships appeared on screen (thus disregarding the ships from the official game ''Babylon 5 Wars'' and the RPG, that include a number of ships that would be devastating in orbital bombardment), the ''Omega''-class destroyers and the older ''Nova''-class dreadnought carry at least ''seventy-two'' missiles (those red dots on the hull are the launch tubes)... And the Grey-like race that serve the Shadows is called Zeiner, and has little to no relation with the Streib. So, did Clark use the footage to generate anti-alien paranoia? Did he decide to spare them? Or did he launch a punitive expedition that may or may not have included nuking ground targets? We don't know, but it was only Clark who decided that... And the paranoia thing does not ''necessarily'' exclude the punitive expedition. |
| 346 | |
| 347 | [[WMG: Delenn went Beyond the Rim to join Valen and [[TogetherInDeath her husband]] John Sheridan on her "Final Journey".]] |
| 348 | Think about it. Valen's body was never found. Neither was Sheridan's. It is reasonably certain that Sheridan - The One Who Will Be - and Valen - The One Who Was - went Beyond the Rim to join the First Ones. Therefore, it is only logical that Delenn - The One Who Is - should join them. Delenn has always been set up as Sinclair's and Sheridan's equal. It only makes sense that she would share their fate. |
| 349 | |
| 350 | [[WMG: The Vorlons used the mindscan of Talia to enhance Lyta's abilities]] |
| 351 | Kosh already had a recording of an amplified telepath, complete with telekinetic abilities, and since he didn't use it for Talia he must have wanted it for a different purpose. Why would the Vorlons waste time figuring out how to modify Lyta if they can just use the template they already had? Lyta and Tslia's powers developed in different ways because of what they were practicing, they discovered their abilities in different orders. |
| 352 | |
| 353 | [[WMG: Unwashed and/or unkempt hair blocks human telepathy]] |
| 354 | There's no other reason why Byron's refugee telepaths, who Byron states have not eaten in some time, should be so conspicuously well-groomed. Hair care products are a more vital necessity than food to them! |
| 355 | * AS weird as this sounds it might be somewhat true. We know that having physical barriers between a telepath and their target can block a connection so if the telepath was dirty enough it might act as a barrier. Of course they could always being using their abilities to get into people's quarters and use their facilities. |
| 356 | ** Or they're just using their telepathic abilities to convince ''you'' that they are well-groomed and not filthy tangle-haired urchins. |
| 357 | * Also, the rogue telepath with multiple personalities from a season five episode always dramatically brushes his dreads from his forehead before he goes into death-glare-mind-rape mode. |
| 358 | |
| 359 | [[WMG: G'Kar's first language is actually Centauri]] |
| 360 | When he was born, the Centauri had already occupied Narn for decades. It's likely the Centauri imposed their language and culture on the enslaved population of Narn for their own convenience. (We know eating Spoo is a Centauri custom that is still popular among Narns, for example.) G'Kar may have not even learned to speak Narn until he was an adult, when the Centauri left Narn. We've just never learnt this due to the TranslationConvention. |
| 361 | * This would actually explain those scenes early in the show where G'Kar would be speaking to Na'Toth, both Narns, alone and yet still using human standards to judge things like time. If G'Kar was raised thinking Centauri and the younger Na'Toth thinks in Narn terms then thinking in human terms would be a middle ground they were both equally familiar with and would facilitate communication! |
| 362 | * On the [[http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/Spoo Spoo]] thing, G'kar likes fresh Spoo, Centauri only eat it once it's had a chance to age. |
| 363 | ** FridgeBrilliance: Narn slaves would have had the opportunity to develop a taste for Spoo while serving the Centauri - and would have had the opportunity to steal it while it was aging, hence the two races differing preferences. |
| 364 | |
| 365 | [[WMG: G'Kar is a very low level telepath]] |
| 366 | While there are no active telepaths the gene that controls telepathy remains within the Narn population and is simply dormant. After stimulating it with Dust and then having Kosh enter his mind I suspect G'Kar may have permenently awakened his latent telepathic abilities. As we've seen with Ivanova low level telepaths aren't easily detectable and aren't overwhelmed by the thoughts of others, though they do pick up other's emotions. This would explain how G'Kar's HeelFaceTurn can be so complete so fast, his new abilities helped him empathize with the aliens around him and helped him see the big picture. Hell, as each race seems to have it's own specialties when it comes to telepaths perhaps Narns had a natural affinity for empathic abilities. G'Kar would naturally instinctively shy away from making genuine telepathic contact with anyone after his experience with Londo but he would be aware if anyone scanned him, which is why he believes Lyta's refusal to scan others for the Narn in exchange for their money and ships, he knew for a fact she didn't scan him to find the right answer. |
| 367 | |
| 368 | [[WMG: The 10,000-character name which the Shadows use to refer to their species is a representation of their genetic code]] |
| 369 | I've wondered why a race would refer to themselves in a long-winded manner like that, rather than with a basic word that would be easy for them to use. There may be some "shorthand" word they use routinely, and the 10,000-character word is something more formal or used scientifically (like Latin names for species on Earth). Given the Shadows' prodigiousness in genetic engineering, they may (formally) refer to themselves--and probably other species they've encountered and examined--by a reference to their basic genome sequence. |
| 370 | |
| 371 | [[WMG: The Dilgar were a protege race of the Shadows]] |
| 372 | Some of Deathwalker's statements (such as "the superior control the inferior"), and her motivation for introducing her immortality serum to the larger universe, seem to hint at a strong ideological affinity with them. And the Dilgar's war against everyone in the League of Non-Aligned Worlds (to the point where they got overextended and eventually driven back to their own homeworld) seems to compare with the "12-front war" the Centauri would later wage at the Shadows' behest. It was implied that they were a fairly advanced race as well, and so they may have been spacefaring during the last Shadow War of 1000 years ago, and been one of their allies. But they did do their last push before the Shadows reawakened (if indeed all of them actually "sleep")--perhaps they had enough arrogance to think they could wage a wild war of conquest against much of the galaxy without Shadow help (or would gain more respect from the reawakened Shadows if they did achieve this on their own). |
| 373 | |
| 374 | And even if they weren't actual spacefaring allies of the Shadows 1000 years ago, we know that the Shadows had exerted some influence even on non-spacefaring races, such as introducing the [[AsskickingLeadsToLeadership "Green/Purple" leadership contest]] in pre-spacefaring Drazi culture, as stated in the Technomage Trilogy. |
| 375 | |
| 376 | [[WMG: Talia's telekinetic abilities were erased with the death of the sleeper personality]] |
| 377 | A pair of theories about Talia's telekinetic abilities and why the Psi-Corps didn't seem to be able to get them after her return to Earth. |
| 378 | * The less likely version is that Ironheart didn't know about the implant personality, and when it activated, it not only overwrote the original personality, but also overwrote whatever modifications Ironheart made. |
| 379 | * Ironheart didn't know about the implant personality, that's WordOfGod. He wasn't in the best frame of mind and wasn't looking closely enough, trying to hold his powers back, and missed it. They do establish in the last season that telepaths with multiple personalities can have different psi rating so it's possible her new personality just didn't have access to the powers. |
| 380 | * The more likely version, considering Ironheart's capabilities and his fear of what the Corps would do with his gifts, is that the gifts were tied to the Talia he knew, and that they would promptly be erased upon activation of the sleeper personality. The [[FridgeLogic only problem with this theory]], is "Why didn't Ironheart just not erase the sleeper personality?", making the former a bit more possible. |
| 381 | * The light from Ironheart touched Talia's head. It is possible that the changes he made to her were very specifically to her ''mind'', and not a rewrite of her genetic code or major alteration of her physiology. Note that very subtle physical changes may not be detectable by human medical technology. For example, Dr. Franklin did a thorough physical of Lyta when she returned from the Vorlon Empire. Other than noting increased electrical activity in her brain, he didn't spot any changes in her. He didn't even comment on her gill implants, which was odd. Whatever modifications the Vorlons made to her were therefore not very obvious, or else very well-concealed. Likewise, whatever Ironheart did to Talia may not have been physically apparent. Knowing what he knew about the Corps, it was unlikely he would do anything like alter her genes or make any physical changes that the Corps would be able capitalize on, either via their eugenic breeding program or examination of her body. |
| 382 | |
| 383 | [[WMG: Delenn's [[ShipTease behavior]] around Neroon in Season Four and Lennier in Season Five can be explained by cultural differences.]] |
| 384 | The Minbari simply have different standards of what constitutes appropriate displays of affection towards people who are not your romantic partner. |
| 385 | * It also boils down to personal perception, some see ShipTease while others see simple platonic affection. |
| 386 | * Heck, at one point the issue of Lennier comes up and Sheridan says something to the effect of "Three's company", and Delenn's response is that among Minbari "three is sacred", which leaves him chuckling awkwardly, even while she looks extremely serious. We don't actually know a great deal about Minbari marriages, and Delenn went to some trouble (including becoming a HalfHumanHybrid) to accommodate humanity's sensibilities. It may be that ExoticExtendedMarriage in groups of three is quite normal for the Minbari. Delenn might have looked distressed when discussing the topic because in reality it would not be unusual for her to be in a threeway marriage and thus this love triangle was not a problem that would normally have come up were she living a Minbari, rather than a human, lifestyle. It might have also influenced her dealings with Neroon, and even Sheridan comments on Delenn still being upset over his death (in a sensitive way). |
| 387 | |
| 388 | [[WMG: Expanding on the guess above, love triangles are sacred among the Minbari.]] |
| 389 | |
| 390 | I'd guess, in Minbari culture, it's common for one spouse to take on a lover outside of marriage, which is seen as symbolic of the triad motif in Minbari religion. |
| 391 | |
| 392 | To wit: Delenn is grey--literally, as a member of the grey council, and figuratively, as a moderating presence between light and dark. Hence her role in the war between the Vorlons and the Shadows. Moreover, it's an aspect of Minbari religion to be moderate between light and dark. |
| 393 | |
| 394 | When Delenn shows interest in Lennier while being married to John, she's symbolically assuming a position between the dark male figure (John, historically an enemy of the Minbari) and the light male figure, Lennier, her faithful and kind servant, to bring them closer into unity and to find balance within herself. One might even guess that Dukhat and Neroon were her past lovers, in the same pattern. Dukhat was light, as the "pinnacle of Minbari evolution" and Dukhat was dark, as a violent and bellicose warrior caste leader. |
| 395 | |
| 396 | My guess is, it's common for religious figures like Delenn to form this sort of love triangle, and tolerated or even considered normal because of the religious significance. |
| 397 | |
| 398 | [[WMG: The Soul Hunters accidentally caused the Earth-Minbari War]] |
| 399 | We know they were there, that the Minbari hate them (so much that the usually collected Delenn reacted with homicidal rage to the sight of one of them) and that Jankowski opened fire only after being told that the Minbari weapons were 'hot' (active). It isn't too much of a stretch that the commander of the Valen'tha reacted to the Soul Hunters' presence by ordering to power the weapons and kill them, resulting in Jankowski's thinking they were about to attack ''him'' and opening fire just as Dukhat and others in the Grey Council started crying to close the damn gunports exactly to prevent this occurrence. |
| 400 | |
| 401 | [[WMG: The 'rogue' Soul Hunter was manhandled by Morann when he tried to take Dukhat's soul]] |
| 402 | He arrived near him, enough to get a good look at Delenn's face, but she never saw him. Instead there's Morann, an high-ranking member of the Warrior Caste of a species physically stronger than the Soul Hunters. He probably saw Delenn after getting bitchslapped and shoved aside by Morann, who then proceeded to ask Delenn about her vote. |
| 403 | * Good chance that the humiliation of the situation played a role in him going crazy. That and Morann may have hit him in the head ''hard''. |
| 404 | |
| 405 | [[WMG: The Soul Hunters are Lorien's species]] |
| 406 | Besides the very look-alike appearance, let's remember Lorien's tale about the young Universe. He said that at some point the younger generations of his species began to age and die, while the elder generations remained immortal. It is logical to assume that they considered death something unnatural and terrible, and became obsessed with the idea of saving the dying at any cost. |
| 407 | [[WMG: The Centauri think they've been singled out for extermination by some of the First Ones, and their expansion in space is their way to prepare themselves for the battle]] |
| 408 | According to the RPG and ''Babylon 5 Wars'' data, the Centauri have fought ''three'' genocidal wars, and every time the Centauri were the attacked party. |
| 409 | The first time was in their 'First Empire', the one period of Centauri history where they were completely unarmed. Centauri explorers sailed the ocean of their homeworld and reached the part of the planet inhabited by the Xon, who exterminated the explorers and, in spite of being quite primitive, managed to build a fleet capable to pass the ocean and tried to exterminate the Centauri. The Houses were born from the ashes of the First Empire, with the Centauri Republic forming when the Houses united to fight and exterminate the Xon. |
| 410 | The second time was during the previous Shadow War, when the Shroggen, a race of Shadow minion, invaded Centauri Prime. The Centauri won thanks to Technomage help, and copied what little of the Shroggen technology they understood to reach the stars. |
| 411 | Finally there was the war against the Orieni Empire, a race fanatically worshipping the Vorlon (even if they don't want to), who started the war and started using mass driver and genocidal bombardments first when the Centauri started winning. In the end the Centauri won due superior numbers and industrial production and Orieni stupidity (namely the Orieni diverting most of their fleet from the frontline to devastate the Drakh homeworld as soon as they realized they served the enemy of their gods. Guess what the Centauri did when they realized most of the enemy fleet wasn't where it was smart to keep it). |
| 412 | Quite suspicious, isn't it? Now, the question is: will they ever realize that the two races with the will and ability to do it have left? |
| 413 | |
| 414 | [[WMG: Jha'dur exterminated the Markab with a fake Drafa Plague]] |
| 415 | The Drafa Plague resurfaced at least a year before November 2259. Jha'dur, a wicked [[PlagueMaster Plague Mistress]] with a strange sense of humor, showed up at ''Babylon 5'' in June 2258. Due cultural implications, the Markab were unwilling to even ''try'' and cure it. Please don't think about it before going to sleep. |
| 416 | |
| 417 | [[WMG: Bester wanted Garibaldi to somehow rescue Sheridan after his plan for infiltrating Edgars' corporation was complete]] |
| 418 | Or, at least he intentionally left open that possibility. Why did he reveal to Garibaldi all that he had done to manipulate him, once Edgars' secret biological weapon was revealed to him and the Psi Corps, and either destroyed by them or taken for further study? While Bester's telling Garibaldi on the train about what he did was sort of presented as a Bond villain-esque JustBetweenYouAndMe moment, rubbing in how he totally manipulated his old nemesis, I happen to think Bester's a bit smarter than that, and at least knew that giving Garibaldi this knowledge ''could'' have consequences. |
| 419 | |
| 420 | It is also known that Bester was no ally of President Clark's or his regime, not after knowing of his collusion with the Shadows, who used his beloved fellow teeps ("blips" or not) as ship [=CPUs=] and cannon fodder. (Sure there was a big faction of PsiCorps that went along with Clark and took advantage of the power he gave them, but there seemed to be another--including Bester--that at least secretly dissented.) And he'd worked with Sheridan before in an EnemyMine fashion, and also knew of course that Babylon 5 held the cryogenically frozen body of the love of his life, and probably would have trusted Sheridan more than most to do right by her as best he could (and was of course outraged later at finding out how Sheridan used some of those frozen telepaths to sabotage the Earthforce ships--but was assured she wasn't one of those so used). Long story short, he at least had no real desire to have Sheridan taken prisoner by the Clark regime--and that was not the goal of his plot using Garibaldi anyway (instead it was to prevent a genocide or mass enslavement of telepaths (or something he suspected Edgars of plotting that might be of that magnitude)--commendable if you think about it although the method wasn't very nice for one, and as it turned out two, of our heroes). So at the very least I think he told him, and also allowed the information to be telepathically retrievable (while the "Asimov" was locked much more tightly in his head), to at least give Garibaldi a chance to regain trust and maybe rescue Sheridan and have Clark humiliated that way (as well as restore this effective leader of the opposition to at least keep Clark in check if not overthrow him). He wouldn't know if Garibaldi would succeed, or even be able to regain the trust of the friends his actions betrayed, but he knew Garibaldi was capable, and that at least Lyta could discern the truth from his mind, as she did. At the very least he consciously leaves the possibility open to chance, while securing the "Asimov" so that Garibaldi cannot get revenge on him personally. |
| 421 | |
| 422 | * This might have been something of a XanatosGambit for Bester: |
| 423 | ** 1/ Gerabaldi regains the trust of the Resistance and rescues Sheridan --> Bester retains good will with Sheridan's forces and help with his lover --> Bester wins |
| 424 | ** 2/ Gerabaldi doesn't manage to regain the trust of the resisitance and/or fails to rescue Sheridan --> no one believes/can't prove Gerabaldi's claims of what Bester did --> Bester retains his "spider in the shadows" position with Clark's regime --> Bester wins |
| 425 | |
| 426 | [[WMG: About the Centauri imperial succession]] |
| 427 | To prevent the continuous political disputes and backstabbings from becoming a full-blown civil war (or at least take away a possible cause), the emperor's succession is not fully automatic, and any possible successor must answer to one of these three characteristics: |
| 428 | * 1: to prevent the formation of a continuous dynasty, only the emperor's sons, brothers, nephews and grandnephews are allowed to be heirs, with this same order of precedence, and only if born during the emperor's reign. Children born before or after the emperor's reign are passed over, and other members of his House (that is temporarily suspended until they cannot satisfy this requirement anymore) cannot inherit the throne under this or the second requirement. |
| 429 | ** This is based on how Cartagia inherited the throne from his uncle Turhan but Cartagia's own son Dius Vintari (young enough that he could have been a posthumous son) was passed over. |
| 430 | * 2: in case the emperor has no qualified descendant, he may pick a successor from any Noble House but his own, with the approval of the Centaurum and the Royal Court. The chosen successor will inherit the throne upon the emperor's death. |
| 431 | ** This is based on how Vir succeeded Londo (who we know had no children) and Dius Vintari was slated to succeed Vir. |
| 432 | * 3: in case the emperor has no children and failed to pick a successor before his death, the Centaurum shall appoint a regent to temporarily replace the emperor. The regent has all the powers of the emperor save for appointing a successor to himself or the late emperor, a power reserved only to the Centaurum. The Centaurum will choose the new emperor from its own ranks or the highest-ranking members of the Noble Houses (effectively the same thing), and once said choice happens the new emperor will take the power from the regent, who will lose said authority. The Centaurum has no time limit for the choice of emperor, nor its members experience any privation to encourage a fast choice. |
| 433 | ** This happened on screen. |
| 434 | |
| 435 | [[WMG: Lorien is [[Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire R'hllor]].]] |
| 436 | His ability to bring the dead back to life, but only for a limited period of time, is similar to that of R'hllor priests. Also, their names sound a little bit similar. |
| 437 | |
| 438 | [[WMG: The ''Omega''-class destroyers were intended as a stopgap ship during the development of the Explorers]] |
| 439 | The ''Explorer''-class survey ship is a ''huge'' vessel, whose development probably needed a ''long'' time between rotating section for simulated gravity, mobile jumpgate construction ability and the sheer size of the ship (with the structural problems, the need to move her and a reactor powerful enough to power everything). On the other hand, the ''Omega'' is based on the hull of the older ''Nova'', replacing many of the weapon emplacements with a rotating section... And a number of ''Omegas'' were destroyed in the opening battles of the Earth-Minbari War, ''three years before the ships officially entered service''. Chance is that the ''Omega'' was devised as a long range exploration ship to be employed during the development of the ''Explorer'' ([[{{Irony}} with the ones we saw at the start of the war being actually supposed to establish first contact with the Minbari when Jankowski violated his orders and started the war]]), with production halted for the war and later restarted as a [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast destroyer]] that has the long range of the original model, the armour of the ''Nova'', similar energy weapon firepower to the ''Hyperion'' and a crapload of missiles on the broadsides. |
| 440 | ** ''Omega''s were designed to replace the ''Nova''s. ''Explorer''s were designed to replace the ''Oracle'' scout ships, though that left EarthForce with something of a gap in it's military scout department. |
| 441 | |
| 442 | [[WMG: The Drazi green-purple conflict was introduced by the Shadows]] |
| 443 | Or at least they caused the escalation where they started killing. Like one of the leaders said "it's natural selection", pretty much the Shadows' philosophy. |
| 444 | * Confirmed as true in the RPG. |
| 445 | * And also confirmed in ''The Passing of the Techno-Mages'' trilogy, in the part which retells the events of "The Geometry of Shadows" from Elric's perspective (when the green-purple conflict was also going on at the same time he was passing through Babylon 5). Elric knew of this history. |
| 446 | |
| 447 | [[WMG: The engineers building [=EarthForce=] space vehicles have full naming rights for the models and a weird sense of humour]] |
| 448 | List of [=EarthForce=] vehicles and the strange reason for their name (both from the series and the ExpandedUniverse): |
| 449 | * ''Oracle''-class jump explorer (later scout): the first explorer vessel of Earth. The engineers fought off attempts at naming the class Odysseus or Ulysses for [[Literature/TheOdyssey literary reasons]]; |
| 450 | * ''Epimetheus''-class jump cruiser: Epimetheus means "afterthought" in Ancient Greek, and is the MeaningfulName of a Titan known to be an idiot. The ''Epimetheus''-class was designed when Earth Alliance didn't have the technology to make a working space warship mounting a jump drive, but [[ExecutiveMeddling the government insisted to have one]] and only realized this when EAS ''Asia'' (Beta version, improved from the initial model) [[CurbStompBattle was easily defeated by a minor race]] (the Gamma and Delta versions would be competitive, with the final Epsilon having too powerful weapons for her reactor); |
| 451 | * ''Avenger''-class carrier: the engineers, anticipating the embarrassing defeat of the ''Asia'' that would happen a year later, [[MeaningfulName named the first carrier this way because she and her starfuries would avenge it]] (the Koulani, the race that defeated the ''Asia'', backed off when they first saw the Avengers); |
| 452 | * ''Artemis''-class frigate: every version of this ship is made to hunt down something. Especially the standard Beta version, packing six railguns to hunt down enemy ''battleships''; |
| 453 | * Flying Fox-class starfury: the second model of Starfury, named after a bat. An oblique reference to Franchise/{{Batman}}; |
| 454 | * ''Nova''-class dreadnought: In the original model, every single large gun you can see in [[http://b5tech.com/oldb5tech/earthalliance/earthallianceshipsandvessels/earthcapships/nova/novaglory.jpg this picture]] is a laser cannon; |
| 455 | * ''Hyperion''-class heavy cruiser: named after the Titan of Sun for the impressive plasma weapon suite of the original model; |
| 456 | * ''Hecate''-class testbed cruisers: named after the goddess of magic for two reasons: as [[DoingInTheWizard any sufficiently advanced technology is undistinguishable from magic]], the class would allow to use technologies that would have been magic to previous ships; also, [=EarthForce=] was using the research funds to build the heavy cruisers they felt they needed to face the Narn or some crazed Centauri Noble House (both had already happened), and when a threat (like the Dilgar) would come they would 'magic up' a large fleet; |
| 457 | * ''Sagittarius''-class missile cruiser: "Sagittarius" is Latin for [[MeaningfulName "Archer"]]; |
| 458 | * Aurora-class starfury: named after the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_%28aircraft%29 Aurora]] conspiracy theory; |
| 459 | * ''Medusa''-class superdreadnought: either the guy who originally came up with this was [[{{Pun}} stoned]] or the engineers expected the sight of the [[MoreDakka insane number of guns on the damn thing]] (yes, more guns than on the ''Nova'', and larger to boot) had enough guns to leave whoever looked at her blocked as in stone for a few seconds; |
| 460 | * ''Omega''-class: the ultimate development in long range ships for races without actual ArtificialGravity; |
| 461 | * ''Warlock''-class destroyer: the ship has sensors capable of seeing through Minbari stealth most of the times and ''two {{Wave Motion Gun}}s''. Every feat warrants the name; |
| 462 | * ''Apollo''-class bombardment cruiser: named after the God of the Sun and Archery, it's the successor of the ''Sagittarius'', a missile cruiser so formidable it was reclassified as [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast bombardment cruiser]]; |
| 463 | * ''Marathon''-class advanced cruiser: named after the Battle of Marathon, as the thing can reliably see through Minbari stealth and, carrying advanced ''neutron weapons'' (the same weapons of the Minbari themselves), is expected to do what the Athenians did to the Persians at Marathon, namely DefeatingTheUndefeatable; |
| 464 | * ''Delphi''-class advanced scout: the successor of the ''Oracle'' and named after the residence of the original Oracle, with sensors more advanced than those of the ''Marathon''; |
| 465 | * ''Nemesis''-class advanced destroyer: an illegal ship that is nothing more than a ''Warlock'' with actual Shadow armour and most energy weapons replaced by Shadowtech version (yes, even the {{Wave Motion Gun}}s). |
| 466 | ** Or they're just fans of Greek Mythology-based ThemeNaming. |
| 467 | |
| 468 | [[WMG:Somewhere in the Galaxy there's a Human-inhabitated planet known as [[WesternAnimation/SheRaPrincessOfPower Etheria]], and they used to have trading links with the Centauri Republic before being invaded by the Horde]] |
| 469 | [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsSNhIx9-T8 Evidence]]. |
| 470 | |
| 471 | [[WMG:Minbari economy was devastated by [=EarthForce=] during the Earth-Minbari War]] |
| 472 | According to the ExpandedUniverse, and the ''Babylon 5 Wars'' tabletop game in particular, the Minbari had not fully replaced their losses yet by the time of the Drakh War, allowing the Orieni to successfully invade the Minbari Protectorate and ''hold it'' for a while in spite of the horrendous losses against their firepower. Assuming the Minbari aren't stupid, and knowing basic Human strategy, a logic explanation would be for Human raiders to have destroyed as many Minbari merchant ships and shipyards as they could. |
| 473 | * I somewhat doubt the isolationist Minbari would have easily attackable merchant fleets when their stealth tech can be mounted on even shuttles. My understanding is that the Minbari economy was rigid and inflexible, so suddenly going on war footing when nothing like that had existed for over a thousand years severely dented their economy, while Earth Force probably still had favors it could call on from the League of Non-Aligned Worlds when the threat of extermination by the Minbari was over (and possibly handed over with extreme haste when the Minbari were playing nice with humanity, lest they offend the bipolar guys that crushed the guys they surrendered to). Also, considering that the Drakh happened after the Shadow War, it would probably be that the Shadows would have hit the shipping lanes. |
| 474 | ** Except the Minbari ''do'' have vulnerable merchant fleets: their fleet is based on two ships, and where the large ''Noloshan''-class trade frigates (basically converted ''Tinashi'' frigates) does have the stealth technology the smaller ''Rolotha''-class freighters don't, and neither model is equipped with heavy weapons or a jump drive. Add to it the inexperience in trade warfare, that the crews are civilians and not military (not even Worker caste military, actual civilians with little to no combat training) dealing with a force that has recent experience in large scale commerce raiding and a task force fully dedicated to it (the Long Range Raiding Group), and that the shipping lanes are known, and we get a perfect scenario for a massacre, with how much of the Minbari merchant fleet survived the war depending on how fast they can adopt the convoy system that would add some measure of protection against direct attack. Still, the Minbari ''had'' troubles converting their economy to war footing (the initial offensive that ended with the loss of the ''Black Star'' exhausted most of their stockpiles, and after that loss Branmer, who had taken over, had to wait six months before renewing the offensive exactly because of that), and that would worsen the effects of [=EarthForce=] raiding. |
| 475 | *** Wouldn't the problem be from launching strikes inside Minbari territory? They have to get inside Minbari space without being detected and know where the fleets are. Then the Minbari would have to continuously not send escorts to wreck any Earthforce ships that would attack their fleets after the first couple got massacred. Remember, the Minbari are isolationist, they wouldn't have massive trade fleets outside their borders. |
| 476 | |
| 477 | [[WMG: The show is made by aliens.]] |
| 478 | The actors playing the aliens are not humans with makeup; they are real aliens. The actors playing the humans are aliens wearing makeup. |
| 479 | * See ''Film/GalaxyQuest'' for more information on this... |
| 480 | |
| 481 | [[WMG: The first three Babylon stations were sabotaged by the Minbari.]] |
| 482 | Think about it. It's all a part of the show's stable time loop. A successful Babylon 1, 2, or 3, means no Babylon 4 or 5. The Minbari needed Babylon 4 to beat the Shadows in the past and Valen's prophecies are just Sinclair recounting history from his point of view. Given this, the Minbari knew they needed to support the Babylon project wholeheartedly, and knew they needed the first three stations out of the way to make history unfold the way they needed it to. |
| 483 | |
| 484 | [[WMG: The meaning of whole "Dying race" thing.]] |
| 485 | At one point, Kosh said "They're a dying race. We should let them pass", and when asked which one he meant, the Narn or the Centauri, he merely said "yes." According to J. Michael Strazcynsky, this was meant to indicate that, unlike the humans, Minbari and others, the Centauri and the Narn are both [[spoiler: doomed not to evolve into higher beings]]. |
| 486 | What if Kosh meant the Narn and the Centauri were meant to build one civilization together? We see again and again that the Narn and the Centauri are inextricably linked, even more so than Minbari and humans. Perhaps the two species could overcome their respective failures by joining together in a symbiotic relationship. Instead, of course, they repeatedly decide to make war on each other, sealing their fate and leading Kosh to call them ''a'' dying race. |
| 487 | |
| 488 | [[WMG: Alternately, the Centauri, the Xon, and the Narn were to form one symbiotic culture...]] |
| 489 | That would then evolve into the next old ones along with the other younger races. Unfortunately, the Centauri screwed destiny by exterminating the Xon in the war of 20 million deaths. |
| 490 | |
| 491 | [[WMG: Lorien is THAT [[Literature/TheSilmarillion Lorien]]]] |
| 492 | Or Irmo, as he is also called. I'm not sure why the Vala of dreams and desires decided to settle down on Z'ha'dum though. |
| 493 | |
| 494 | [[WMG: The soul hunter's chant of single syllables is not a prayer]] |
| 495 | It's their alphabet song. |
| 496 | |
| 497 | [[WMG: The Drazi in "Intersections in Real Time" wasn't a Drazi]] |
| 498 | In "There All the Honor Lies", the Babylon 5 shop actually had masks of Humans and aliens on sale. Given the RubberForeheadAliens nature of Babylon 5 (in part), the interrogators could have manufactured a mask to mimic the appearance of a Drazi to further mentally manipulate Sheridan, and put an actor to work to deceive Sheridan. |
| 499 | * It is either that, or the rather depressing thought that the Drazi was a willing participant, meaning that, after everything Sheridan did for the League, there are people from the races who are supportive of Clark's regime (or freelancers who do anything for money). |
| 500 | |
| 501 | [[WMG: Lennier was Delenn's illegitimate son]] |
| 502 | One of the previous guessers has already said "her feelings seemed to be more like those between family rather than those between romantic lovers." And according to the wiki Delenn is in her 50s when the series takes place. It's possible that she had a bit of a dalliance when she was young and gave away the child to parents who would love them. Minbari being Minbari, she never talked about it and he never found out. (Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction for the creaptasticness.) |
| 503 | |
| 504 | [[WMG: The Thirdspace fighters are captured Vorlon ships]] |
| 505 | While most of the Thirdspace ships are [[EldritchAbomination Eldritch Abominations]], the small fighters appear to be a more technological design, and in outline they resemble Vorlon fighters. It's possible they were Vorlon ships taken over by the Thirdspace aliens when the gateway was originally constructed in the distant past. |
| 506 | |
| 507 | [[WMG: Greater London in the ''Babylon 5'' era is a megacity extending all the way to the mouth of the Thames estuary.]] |
| 508 | The West End/East End flub from "Comes The Inquisitor" was never a mistake: the geographic terminology's just changed to suit how urban sprawl has left Whitechapel, and indeed most of the current city, well to the west of the metropolitan region's midpoint. |
| 509 | |
| 510 | [[WMG: Swedish meatballs are Valen's favorite food.]] |
| 511 | When he traveled back in time, [[spoiler:Sinclair]] realized it was going to be very hard living so far removed in a time from his own, but the one thing he'd miss above all others would be his favorite meal, Swedish meatballs, and so when the war ended, he introduced them to the Minbari, and when they met the Centauri, introduced it to them, who renamed it Roopo balls and tried to convince the other races they had invented it, and it snowballed from there. During the first Centauri occupation of Narn, Swedish meatballs became very popular among the Narn when it was made from they local equivalent of cows, but to distinguish it from the hated Centauri overlords, they renamed it Breen. No, not ''[[Franchise/StarTrek that]]'' Breen. Eventually it was forgotten it had even come from the Centauri, so that a century later, the Narn could happily wolf it down without letting their pride get in the way, and the rest is history! |
| 512 | |
| 513 | [[WMG: The "Quantum space" from The Lost Tales is actually the Thirdspace.]] |
| 514 | * What we know from The Lost Tales: The travelling through it is much faster, it looks blue-ish. Now remember the Thirdspace movie: Dr. Trent assumed that Thirdspace can provide almost instant travelling, at the space itself can be seen as blueish nothingness. So probably the Alliance reverse-engineered some Vorlon or Thirdspace aliens (aka TSA) technologies and started using Thirdspace as a faster version of Hyperspace. |
| 515 | * Why call it "Quantum space"? Because of PR! In any case, some information on 2261 incident leaked, so it is highly likely that people know about some kind of a "very dangerous Thirdspace". |
| 516 | * Maybe it is not so dangerous, as it seems. The Vorlons built a stationary jumpgate, that probably opened in a fixed point. So the TSA guarded it for million years and waited for the gate to open (in the movie, the first attacking ships appear just in a couple of minutes after the gate opened). A Valen-class ship opens its own jump point in a random point of space, so the chance of meeting "the locals" is vanishingly small - for example, we don't have a Shadow Battlecrab or a Raiding fleet sitting on every corner of our space. |
| 517 | ** But still, a Fridge Horror appears: Lyta said, the door has to be opened from both sides. So, if Valen-class ship exists, then there is another way. So, sooner or later, THEY will also find it... |
| 518 | |
| 519 | [[WMG:During the previous Shadow War the Narn and the Centauri fought off the same enemy]] |
| 520 | At the time the Centauri, then at the equivalent of 20th century technology, were invaded by the Shroggen, Shadow servants that arrived chasing a trio of rogue Technomages (that had come to Centauri Prime and "warned" them of the impending invasion precisely to have an army to fight off their pursuers). The Shroggen were later exterminated for this and other embarrassing failures.\ |
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