Line #61 Main/GoodIsOldFashioned


1	->''"A speech on willpower in this day and age? I did not know people still believed in such silly notions.''"
2	-->-- '''Rozalin''', ''VideoGame/{{Disgaea 2\|CursedMemories}}''
3
4	The villain wants to sneer at TheHero. So what does he do? He calls him, and his [[IncorruptiblePurePureness stern moral code]], old-fashioned. Or out-of-date, obsolete, quaint, antiquated, etc. Expect the phrase "this day and age" to come up. The AntiHero may use the StockPhrase, as well, as may indeed, any character whose moral code is somewhat laxer than TheHero's. But the most characteristic users are the {{Ubermensch}}, StrawNihilist, and the NinetiesAntiHero.
5
6	A KnightInSourArmor or other characters wearing JadeColoredGlasses, if only somewhat cynical, may regard it as amusing for its impracticality, tinged with admiration for its honor. The worse a character is, the more likely the attitude will be contempt.
7
8	They may even explicitly describe the code of honor and [[BornInTheWrongCentury the character who holds it]] as more suitable for [[YeGoodeOldeDays a previous time]]. If the opportunity ever arises for contrast, it may be clear that the ideals always were ideals, though, in idealistic stories, it actually may have been better in the past.
9
10	The villain will seldom explicitly characterize himself [[{{Foil}} in contrast]] as evil. [[IDidWhatIHadToDo "Practical," "pragmatic" and "realistic"]] are more likely -- as are "up-to-date" or "way of the future" or other terms indicating that their side is in fashion. OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions may be invoked.
11
12	Occasionally, a character may ironically say that he is not up-to-date and as current as the villain, so the villain will just have to live with his reactions. Sometimes, more seriously, TheHero responds that moral considerations do not change with times and that his code is perennial.
13
14	Invariably a way of rousing sympathy for the character by [[TheWoobie showing him being abused]].
15
16	Note that it applies only to characters whose goodness, rather than any other trait, is called old-fashioned. But it can double up with the character [[BornInTheWrongCentury actually being old-fashioned]] in some manner, or defending himself as living according to the GoodOldWays.
17
18	Logically, this could also be phrased as bad guys are up-to-date, in fashion, current, etc., and sometimes it is (as in the NewEraSpeech), but normally not, because calling good old-fashioned presents evil as the norm and good the divergence. It may go hand-in-hand with declaring yourself AboveGoodAndEvil.
19
20	ThoseWackyNazis often have a tendency to express sentiments of this fashion; whilst they may not actually identify themselves as evil, they will often sneer to their more democratic foes that their beliefs are 'outdated', and that the pure Aryan way is the inevitable way of the future. Given what the judgment of history ended up being against the Nazis and their followers, a Nazi who makes this assertion will usually be played for the historical irony, especially if they're making it any time pre-1945. Similarly, villains associated with the Soviet Union, or Communism in general, are likewise likely to be treated like this, with lines about the obsolescence of freedom and democracy and the inevitability of Communist world revolution.
21
22	A villain who thinks ''their'' morality is the GoodOldWays and the hero’s is a modern perversion is usually an EvilReactionary.
23
24	Contrast SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids, which often carries the same implications but focuses on cynicism in the context of individual people, whereas this trope examines how society has become more cynical over time. See also CoolPeopleRebelAgainstAuthority, GoodIsNotDumb, and the AppealToNovelty Fallacy; of which this trope is an example of the latter.
25
26	Not to be confused with OlderIsBetter, the notion that Old-Fashioned is Good.
27
28	%%If you have time, please take time to put examples in alphabetical order. This page Administrivia/HowToAlphabetizeThings should help you with that.
29	----
30	!!Examples:
31
32	[[foldercontrol]]
33
34	[[folder:Anime and Manga]]
35	* ''Manga/AyakashiTriangle'': In a strange example, it's pointed out that most "traditional" [[OurSpiritsAreDifferent ayakashi]] (kinds that have been around of hundreds of years and are mostly based on existing {{yokai}} folklore) are peaceful or can be handled non-violently, whereas the specifically modern ones are all variants of ikon--bizarre, [[HorrorHunger ravenous]] monstrosities. This may be because most of the "bad" traditional ones were exterminated and not replaced, skewing the results of the survivors; a later arc even has a series of [[SealedEvilInACan sealed away]] traditional ayakashi released as antagonists. Still, it seems urbanization has resulted in a higher share of new ayakashi being violent.
36	* ''Manga/{{Bleach}}'': Souken Ishida was a gentle man who didn't believe in hating or teaching people to hate. He worked hard to try and make the shinigami understand that everyone would benefit if the quincies and shinigami could find a way to work together, but died without ever being able to achieve that [[TragicDream dream]]. The Vandenreich has commented that Souken was an old-fashioned traditionalist who [[DefectorFromDecadence rejected]] the [[PuttingOnTheReich modernization]] of the quincies. Souken's descendents are the only quincies who have so far been revealed to have been willing to work with shinigami or even made allies or friends of shinigami.
37	* Embodied in Kondou in ''VisualNovel/{{Hakuouki}}'' who is the most idealistic out of UsefulNotes/TheShinsengumi but also the slowest to understand that it is [[EndOfAnEra the end of the Japanese Warrior]] and Westernization is becoming prevalent in Japan. It's telling that when the rest of the captains cut their hair and don Western-style clothing to adapt to the times, Kondou is the only one dressing in the traditional style he always wore.
38	* ''Manga/JujutsuKaisen'': Somewhat {{inverted\|Trope}} with Satoru Gojo, who despises the conservative higher-ups that lead Jujutsu society due to their traditions and regulations that don't really help the people who need help the most and leave them too stuck in their ways to properly handle {{Outside Context Problem}}s. He's proven entirely right in his assessment when, following the Shibuya Incident, [[SkewedPriorities the higher-ups focus more on pretending that they're in control than in doing something to actually fix the situation]], while Gojo's own sympathizers are vastly more effective once they start taking action.
39	-->'''Gojo:''' The wave of power you guys have been trying to hold back with your pointless status and traditions has grown bigger than you can handle and is now descending upon us. You won't be able to measure the coming age with the classification of "Special Grade".
40	* The titular character of ''Manga/RurouniKenshin'' speaks with a keigo, and has his principles questioned repeatedly by other characters.
41	* This is the main point of contention between Kotetsu and Barnaby in ''Anime/TigerAndBunny'' -- Kotetsu is an old-fashioned [[WideEyedIdealist idealist]], while Barnaby is a new-age PunchClockHero.\
42	[[NinetiesAntiHero Lunatic]] considers both types of heroism outdated and opts for a VigilanteExecution approach, killing criminals mercilessly instead of apprehending them for points.
43	* Even ''kids'' tell poor ''Manga/{{Trigun}}'''s Vash that [[ThouShaltNotKill his code]] is stupid and old-fashioned, because the planet Gunsmoke is a CrapsackWorld where old Earth morals don't apply. Vash [[{{Determinator}} soldiers on regardless]].
44	* Inverted in ''Manga/TheWorldGodOnlyKnows'' where the traditional hierarchy of Hell was overthrown and replaced by the NobleDemon population.
45	[[/folder]]
46
47	[[folder:Comic Books]]
48	* In ComicBook/UltimateMarvel, Ultimate Cap, who like all characters in that universe is somewhat less good) is disturbed by the incestuous relationship between Ultimate Quicksilver and Ultimate Scarlet Witch. Ultimate Wasp berates him for having "20th Century morals", because BrotherSisterIncest is so modern and awesome, apparently. Not ''all'' the Ultimates felt that way, though- Hawkeye called the relationship sick.
49	* Franchise/{{Batman}}
50	** In #650, part of Jason Todd's MotiveRant:
51	---> '''Jason:''' I don't know what clouds your judgment worse. Your guilt or your antiquated sense of morality.
52	** There's an older example from [[NinetiesAntiHero Azrael]] during Batman: ComicBook/{{Knightfall}}.
53	--->'''ComicBook/{{Robin\|1993}}:''' The old Batman would never [[PayEvilUntoEvil descend to their level!]]\
54	'''ComicBook/{{Azrael}}:''' The old Batman was created for older times. There's no place for kid gloves now. Evil has lost its patience. Obeying rules and codes the other side has trashed is ''stupid.''
55	* Franchise/{{Superman}} gets this a few times by anti-heroes; needless to say he proves them wrong.
56	** Notably, in ''ComicBook/WhatsSoFunnyAboutTruthJusticeAndTheAmericanWay'', in which he fights some very obvious [[{{Expy}} Expies]] of ComicBook/TheAuthority.
57	** In ''ComicBook/KingdomCome'', a killer goth cyborg with 666 tattooed on his chest calls Supes "Man of the 1950s" for daring to lecture the future's super-gang-bangers on morality. The setup for ''Kingdom Come'' revolved around Superman coming out of retirement, which he entered after Magog, an embodiment of the [[MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks ''Grim and Gritty'']] NinetiesAntiHero, displaced him as the top superhero, telling him that ideals like taking villains alive don't work anymore.
58	** In ''ComicBook/SupermanAtEarthsEnd'', Ben Boxer attempts to convince Superman that his adamant refusal to kill is old-fashioned and out of touch with reality. Superman's response, [[MemeticMutation made famous]] by [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]]; "Reality is, you're just an android. '''I AM A MAN!'''" But then he uses an enormously oversized gun to mow down the [[VillainOfTheWeek Villains Of The Week]] and their hench-army anyway, before [[BrokenAesop delivering a message about how guns are bad]]. And now you know why Linkara featured this comic.
59	** In ''ComicBook/SupermanAndTheAuthority'', Manchester Black responds to Superman's ThouShaltNotKill order by sarcastically saying they're about to get a speech about how much better things were in the old days and what's wrong with heroes today. Superman replies that, on the contrary, he thinks young people today are doing just fine; it's people the same age as him that are cynical. (A bit of LeaningOnTheFourthWall; it had, after all, been over twenty years since the heyday of the NinetiesAntiHero.)
60	** In ''ComicBook/{{Supergirl}}'' story ''ComicBook/TheSupergirlFromKrypton2004'' it's defied by Batman, who states that people who think Superman is an outdated boy-scout are unable to see him for the hero he is.
61	** In ''ComicBook/Trinity2008'', Morgaine Le Fey tells Superman, during the climactic battle, that she is looking to the future, while he, Batman, and Franchise/WonderWoman cling to the past.
62	* ''ComicBook/TomStrong'' has an issue with a glimpse into the future where he and his family fight a Nazi [[spoiler:(the son of a female Nazi supersoldier who had impregnated herself with a sperm sample taken from Tom while he was briefly captured during WWII)]] who uses this trope to attack the Strong family's idealism. Tom shoots back with a ShutUpHannibal and makes the case that there have been tyrants and despots since the dawn of history, and that those ideologies are the ones that are obsolete and outdated.
63	* This was often given as the premise for the many "proactive" superhero teams that debuted in MediaNotes/{{the Dark Age\|of Comic Books}}, and the NinetiesAntiHero in general -- something along the lines of "In these difficult times, we can no longer afford to just wait and react!": X-Force, Force Works, Extreme Justice, and the ultimate expression of the theme, ComicBook/TheAuthority.
64	** Parodied in ''ComicBook/JLA1997'', when Superman tells such a group (the Ultramarines) that "these 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel".
65	* In Creator/JoeCasey's ''Gødland'', Basil Cronus declares he's not like Archer: "falling into some ridiculously antiquated paradigm with ''that'' glowing do-gooder."
66	[[/folder]]
67
68	[[folder:Films -- Animated]]
69	* In ''WesternAnimation/{{Robots}}'', [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Ratchet]] calls his predecessor [[MrAltDisney Bigweld]] a "relic" in a board of directors' meeting for caring about more than making money.
70	* ''WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles1'': After [[spoiler:the Incredibles defeat the Omnidroid and save their city]], we get this exchange from two onlookers:
71	--> '''Onlooker #1:''' You see that? That's the way to do it. That's old school!
72	--> '''Onlooker #2:''' Yeah. No school like the old school.
73	** GeniusBonus: The two fellows are [[InkSuitActor Ink-Suit Cameos]] of Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston, the last surviving members of [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%27s_Nine_Old_Men Disney's "Nine Old Men".]]
74	[[/folder]]
75
76	[[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]
77	%%* ''Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'' in the ColdOpening.
78	* ''Film/ANewHope'', Han scoffs at Obi-Wan's coaching of Luke in Jedi weaponry and ethos as impractical and antiquated. As it turns out, it's not all that impractical.
79	* In ''Film/TimeBandits'', the Supreme Being is an old British gentleman in a conservative gray suit. Evil, on the other hand, is a biomechanical man in an industrialized fortress who wants to reimagine the world around technology.
80	-->''If I were creating the world, I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One!''
81	* ''Film/TimeAfterTime'': Jack the Ripper laughs at the hero's nobility and says: "You're so Victorian!"
82	* The ''Franchise/DieHard'' films frame John [=McClane=] as a very old-fashioned hero, a modern-day version of the cowboy gunslingers from the [[TheWestern Westerns]] he enjoys. The films like to pit him against more "modern" villains as a contrast to him, most notably [[Film/DieHard the first film]]'s Hans Gruber (a European GentlemanThief) and [[Film/LiveFreeOrDieHard the fourth film]]'s Thomas Gabriel (a cyberterrorist). Gabriel even mocks [=McClane=] by calling him an analogue timepiece in the digital age. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAM4sFFfdpI This episode]] of ''[[Creator/BobChipman Really That Good]]'' covering the first film goes into detail on this, describing [=McClane=] as an idealized, [[UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan Reagan-era]] paragon of old-fashioned heroism who the film frames as standing athwart the cultural and economic changes of TheEighties, from [[JapanTakesOverTheWorld the rise of Japanese corporate power]] to the debauched lifestyles of the yuppie employees at Nakatomi Plaza.
83	* In ''Film/{{Dragonheart}}'', villain characters frequently sneer that Bowen's moral code -- the code of chivalry -- is old-fashioned and irrelevant.
84	* This is both invoked and discussed in ''Film/TheAvengers2012'', mostly regarding Comicbook/CaptainAmerica. The conclusion is that old-fashioned heroism is [[JustifiedTrope exactly what people need]] during Earth's DarkestHour.
85	* This theme is revisited in ''[[Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier Captain America: The Winter Soldier]]'', which is basically a whole film spent unpacking and exploring the conflict between what Steve stands for and whether his values are tenable in the present day. [[spoiler:Ultimately, the film comes down on a "Mostly, yes, they are." side.]]
86	* ''Film/JamesBond'':
87	** ''Film/{{Goldeneye}}'': The BigBad is a RogueAgent who [[BreakingSpeech mocks]] 007 for being "Her Majesty's loyal terrier," his status as TheCasanova, and adhering to old-fashioned espionage tactics. Of course, Bond makes a cutting remark of his own, stating that [[{{Hypocrite}} "mad little" Alec Trevelyan]] himself is stuck in the past, as part of his grudge against England involves settling an old score that caused his parents to kill themselves of the shame of surviving the Soviet dictator Stalin's death squads at the end of WWII.
88	** ''Film/{{Spectre}}'': C/Max Denbigh claims that the world is better off with the [[SinisterSurveillance "Nine Eyes" surveillance project]], thinking that an AttackDrone can do a better job than a field agent. However, M holds up the importance of spies as they're capable of autonomous decisions, especially ethical ones, going so far to ask C if he ever held a gun. [[spoiler:Spectre later does prove that even in a digitized era, [[BoringButPractical an old-fashioned spy]] is still necessary to prevent critical errors.]]
89	[[/folder]]
90
91	[[folder:Literature]]
92	* In Creator/DanAbnett's Literature/GauntsGhosts novel ''The Armour of Contempt'', an officer tells Rawne that Gaunt will get him killed over [[IncorruptiblePurePureness a futile point of honor]], and that the Warmaster is amused by Gaunt's old-fashioned sense of honor.
93	** In ''The Guns of Tanith,'' the [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure unusually benevolent Lord General Van Voytz]] makes the same observation to Gaunt himself, but admiringly.
94	--> '''Van Voytz:''' Your personal code of honour is unusually robust. I was going to say 'I hope it doesn't get you killed.' But, you know, it assuredly will. Eventually, I mean.
95	--> '''Gaunt:''' I always supposed that was the point, sir.
96	* TheGunslinger in Stephen King's ''Franchise/TheDarkTower'' series seems to get this a lot.
97	* In Creator/GrahamMcNeill's TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Literature/{{Ultramarines}} novel ''Nightbringer'', [[spoiler:Chanda]] reveals himself as TheMole, and the governor asks why. He cites this trope and hands them over to their enemies. [[spoiler:And is RewardedAsATraitorDeserves.]]
98	-->''You are the past. Weak, pathetic, clinging to your outdated loyalty to a withered corpse on a planet you have never even seen.''
99	* In Creator/GrahamMcNeill's TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} Literature/HorusHeresy novel ''False Gods'', [[{{Ubermensch}} Magnus the Red]] is determined to study the warp and gain power, because
100	-->''[[AboveGoodAndEvil Notions of good and evil]] fell by the wayside next to such power as dwelled in the warp, for they were the antiquated concepts of a religious society, long cast aside.''
101	** He's now the slave of the god Tzeentch with most of his army reduced to mindless shells of their former self because of said warp powers and [[NiceJobBreakingItHero the mistakes of his second-in-command.]]
102	** In Creator/JamesSwallow's ''The Flight of the Eisenstein'', Garro has a house carl as [[OldRetainer his equerry]]; his fellow Death Guard Space Marines sneer at maintaining a tradition that no longer makes sense; it smacks of sentiment. [[spoiler:Later, one, as a reanimated and rotting corpse, jeers at Garro and describes himself as a "harbinger of the future".]]
103	* In Creator/JamesSwallow's TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} novel ''[[Literature/BloodAngels Deus Encarmine]]'', Inquisitor Stele tells the Blood Angels before him that there will be resistance to his plans, because of those who cling to "ancient, decrepit dogma."
104	* In Creator/JRRTolkien's ''[[Literature/LordOfTheRings Fellowship of the Ring]]'', Saruman's appeal to Gandalf:
105	-->''A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you. Before us. We may join with that Power.''
106	** In ''Two Towers'', downplayed; when Eomer asks how to judge in these days, Aragorn urges -- as he has ever judged.
107	* In Philip Reeve's ''Literature/MortalEngines'', the Engineers, about to fight with the Historians, sneer at them because the Engineers represent the future. [[spoiler:The Historians win.]]
108	* In Creator/MadeleineLEngle's ''Literature/ManyWaters'', the nephilim and their followers have this attitude, in contrast to their "brothers", the seraphim.
109	* In Creator/AdrianTchaikovsky's ''[[Literature/ShadowsOfTheApt Dragonfly Falling]]'', the Ancient League is five days old but dedicated to ancient traditions.
110	* In the ''Literature/StarTrekNovelVerse'', Emperor Kahless and his traditionalist philosophies get this from other Klingons, on occasion. But with the Klingon Empire reconfiguring itself in light of Martok’s reforms, the tide is turning. In the ''Literature/StarTrekVoyagerRelaunch'', Kahless tells SmugSnake Kopek that ''he'' is going to become obsolete:
111	-->"You will fall, Kopek, because you live only to hold on to your power and to accumulate more. Martok works daily to restore the empire to the path of honour, and there is no place for you on that path. You will learn the true way, or you will reap the seeds of self-destruction you have so carefully sown”.
112	* Simultaneously played straight and subverted in ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'' in the form of Michael Carpenter. As a literal man of God, he gets on Harry's case for having sex with Susan while not marrying her. However, while his moral code is somewhat old fashioned, he plays his part as God's KnightInShiningArmor by having said armor being lined with Kevlar.
113	-->'''Michael:''' My faith protects me. My Kevlar helps.
114	* In Creator/JohnHemry's ''Literature/TheLostFleet'' the 100 year old human Popsicle Captain Geary follows principles that are from the pre-war era. So are some of his phrasings. In fact, his principles actually match official policy. It's just that fleet officers no longer care about official policy.
115	* Played with, if probably unintentionally, by ''Literature/{{Victoria}}''. The protagonists are definitely old-fashioned, fighting to reinstate the culture, technology and aesthetic of the rural 1930s, while rejecting all the ideological underpinnings of the Enlightenment. How ''good'' they are is... up for some debate.
116	* ''Literature/WarriorCats'': In ''[[Recap/WarriorCatsTheFirstBattle The First Battle]]'', [[VillainProtagonist Clear Sky]] tells Alder that times are changing, and that it means they must change too: that Alder has to outgrow the instinct to fight honorably.
117	* Not only is this trope never played straight in Creator/{{Greg Egan}}'s stories, it is always {{inverted}}, often with gratuitous scenes of human cruelty justified by conservatism or religion in order to contrast its tyranny with the benefits of enlightened scientific freethought. But his novella "Literature/{{Oracle}}" goes so far as to have a character who believes this trope, and whose [[WrongGenreSavvy Wrong Genre Savviness]] is played for DramaticIrony: Jack Hamilton is an old-fashioned Cambridge don and Christian apologist [[BornInTheWrongCentury who longs for the days of natural theology]], but clearly has no understanding of why the rest of academia has moved on. Even though his apologetics arguments have been refuted by fellow Christians, who [[StopBeingStereotypical care about intellectual honesty more than they care about sticking it to the materialists]], he still insists that they are correct, and not only that, but that skeptics cannot see this because they are so biased that they cannot possibly understand why his arguments are [[IgnorantOfTheirOwnIgnorance self-evidently]] correct. So he interprets his absence from the intellectual scene not as evidence that he is a bit of a crank, but instead that the scientific establishment is uncritically adopting philosophical naturalism because [[AppealToNovelty it is fashionable]], and that it is only a matter of time before the fickle winds of trendiness make them go for full-on [[HollywoodSatanism devil-worship]]. Naturally, he is portrayed as a complete buffoon, and [[ArkhamsRazor jumps to the conclusion that Robert Stoney is a Satanist]] after seeing his advanced technology and that he was able to disarm an attacker without Hamilton noticing. His fondness for medieval philosophy means that [[ScienceHero Stoney]] is genuinely shocked when he actually makes a decent argument based on then-modern understanding of science and mathematics in their televised debate. [[spoiler:In an alternate universe, he eventually comes around and realizes how foolish he is being, but that doesn't happen in the "main" timeline]].
118	* In the Victorian novel ''Literature/TheSorrowsOfSatan'', the most fashionable characters are all atheists who believe in free love, and who express the view that God and morality are hopelessly outdated. This makes them much more susceptible to Satan's temptations.
119	* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Dalinar Kholin, Highprince and uncle to the King, is extremely unpopular among the nobility for his inflexible adherence to the ancient Codes of War and their teachings about honor, virtue, and just rulership. It puts him at extreme odds with the rest of his nation's nobility, who have largely become GlorySeeker [[BloodKnight Blood Knights]], and see Dalinar as a self-righteous fossil at best, and a senile ShellShockedVeteran at worst. In particular is Dalinar's EvilFormerFriend Sadeas, whose overwhelming military sucess is largely based on ruthless use of slave labor to speed up his army's advances, which has won him no small amount of glory and influence. Much of the first few books consists of the conflict between these two men for the future of their nation.
120	[[/folder]]
121
122	[[folder:Live-Action TV]]
123	* Shane of ''Series/TheWalkingDead2010'' runs on this concept, insisting that the heroes cannot survive the apocalypse while holding onto virtue. Dale adamantly opposes this belief.
124	* ''Series/TheTwilightZone1959'': "[[Recap/TheTwilightZone1959S2E29TheObsoleteMan The Obsolete Man]]". The title man, Romney Wordsworth, is prosecuted for being an (illegal) librarian and (illegally) believing in God, which is deemed obsolete and thus wrong. He on the other hand upholds them to the point of death (everyone "obsolete" is killed). Wordsworth's a courageous martyr who stands up against this tyranny even if it means his life.
125	* Series/{{Columbo}} is mocked by one of his suspects (who is a sort of Hugh Hefner character) for his ''middle-class morality'' at length.
126	* In ''Series/{{Spooks}},'' a group of conspirators plotting the overthrow of the British government sneer at the way the protagonists "still cling to this outdated notion of democracy."
127	* In the ''Series/{{Highlander}}'' episode "Chivalry," Adam takes issue with Duncan's refusal to kill Kristen, an immortal who was once Duncan's lover. "You live and die by a code of honor that was trendy when you were a kid," Adam says. Of course, Adam is even more old-fashioned in his own way, being 2000 years old.
128	-->'''Kirsten:''' Who the hell are you?
129	-->'''Adam:''' A man who was born long before the age of chivalry.
130	[[/folder]]
131
132	[[folder:Tabletop Games]]
133	* Exhumans in ''TabletopGame/EclipsePhase'' believe the Fall proved morality didn't work as a concept, and as such consider themselves AboveGoodAndEvil and dismiss anyone who disagrees with this. Firewall believes the exhumans' habits of doing horrible things means they are ''not'' above good and evil and are simply dangerous, power-crazed jerks.
134	[[/folder]]
135
136	[[folder:Video Games]]
137	* The Unlimited Blade Works route of ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' and the Heaven's Feel route of same are all about this trope.
138	* In Shu's story mode for ''[[VideoGame/WarriorsOrochi Warriors Orochi 2]]'', this is [[SmugSnake Masamune Date's]] battle taunt when he shows up.
139	** Cao Cao in ''VideoGame/DynastyWarriors 6'' also considers those who support the Han to be out of touch with the times.
140	* An early villain in ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' is Brejik of the Black Vulkars, a very hostile gang that extorts and takes slaves. Brejik split away from the less criminal, more supportive Hidden Beks gang and made an ongoing effort to destroy it. The player character can choose a side; Brejik captured someone you need for the plot and put her up as the prize for winning a swoop race, and being sponsored by one of these gangs is the only way to compete in it. Win, though, and Brejik rants about how he doesn't have to follow up on old rules like handing over prizes. He is the wave of the future! Naturally, you kill him.
141	* Both Ryo Sakazaki and Goro Daimon of ''VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters''. They're even seen bemoaning this trope in their ''XIII'' pre-fight talks, as Ryo complains that no one shares his penchant for training in the mountains and Goro says he has the same problem.
142	** Kim Kaphwan, too. He has a very idealised and pushy idea of what good and lawful mean, and by the time XIII rolls in several people either call him out or mock him.
143	* In ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' and its sequel ''VideoGame/Injustice2'', Superman ironically adheres to this after breaking the no-kill rule. Or rather, an [[FallenHero alternate version of Superman]] who established a tyrannical dictatorship over Earth after being tricked by ComicBook/TheJoker into killing his wife ComicBook/LoisLane and [[NukeEm nuking Metropolis]], which caused Injustice-verse Superman to kill the MonsterClown in retaliation. Injustice-verse Superman and his Regime loyalists (Injustice-verse Black Adam, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Robin) see traditional superheroics and the so-called [[ThouShaltNotKill "moral code"]] Batman and his allies stick to as outdated, as it enables villains like the Joker and Gorilla Grodd to break out of {{Cardboard Prison}}s easily and menace society with impunity. In the Regime's view, Batman and his allies are giving the villains ''carte blanche'' to rob and terrorize others. When the main universe Superman is brought into the Injustice-verse near the end of ''Injustice: Gods Among Us'', he chides his counterpart for breaking the ThouShaltNotKill rule, only to be mocked by Injustice-verse Superman for adhering to outdated values. Likewise in the sequel, many condemn Injustice-verse Superman for breaking the no-kill rule, but he can retort back with a ShutUpKirk speech or an ArmorPiercingQuestion.
144	* Implied throughout the ''VideoGame/JakAndDaxter'' games: multiple times, important figures take note of Jak's heroic attitude carried over from the first game that contrasts with the CrapsackWorld he finds himself in for the sequels. [[VideoGame/JakIIRenegade Praxis]] is critical of it and says all the heroes died long ago, while [[VideoGame/Jak3Wastelander Damas]] is more wistful and says that the world is not yet out of heroes.
145	[[/folder]]
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147	[[folder:Western Animation]]
148	* In the video series ''WesternAnimation/AdventuresInOdyssey'', "[[Recap/AdventuresInOdysseyVideoSeriesE13BabyDaze Baby Daze]]", the BigBad calls Eugene's morals "outdated."
149	* Hank on ''WesternAnimation/KingOfTheHill'' firmly believes this and the show generally abides. In any given episode, if a character is introduced who is notably hip and modern or who derides Hank for being old-fashioned, that person will turn out to be a jerk and/or need Hank to save them with old-fashioned sensibility by the end.
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153	* Since the days of ancient Greece, debates about the morality and practicality of democracy versus tyranny have often been framed in these terms. Creator/{{Plato}}'s ''Literature/TheRepublic'' describes an ideal government ruled by "philosopher-kings" who would rule in the people's best interests without regard for themselves, treating contemporary democracy as outdated and inferior. "Sed quid custodiaret ipsos custodes?" (But who shall oversee the overseers?) These debates, in which [[DemocracyIsBad democracy was portrayed as aimless, inefficient mob rule]] and enlightened tyranny as more efficient and forward-thinking, were repeated among intellectuals at the turn of the 20th century, with UsefulNotes/FriedrichNietzsche being the {{Trope Maker\|s}}. Many average people believed it too, feeling that a strong nationalistic leader who would put the good of the people first was preferable to elected bodies that would squabble at best and line their own pockets at worst. Fascist parties came to power in Italy, [[ThoseWackyNazis Germany]], and beyond by arguing that things like liberal democracy and individual rights were outdated concepts and that only through totalitarian dictatorship could the [[TheNeedsOfTheMany "greater good"]] of the nation as a whole be tended to. One of UsefulNotes/BenitoMussolini's favorite words was, in fact, "pragmatic". Communist tracts of the time also made use of this trope, though they tended to portray themselves as 'true' democrats and the liberal democracies of the West as being undemocratic because they didn't permit unlimited power to the majority. A favorite of Communist propagandists of the 1930s in the USA was that the Constitution was outdated, obsolete, and a 'barrier to democracy'. It took World War II to demolish these perspectives (among the mainstream at least and for communism it took much longer than that).
154	* UsefulNotes/WinstonChurchill was known to be old-fashioned for his time, being culturally much more at home in the Victorian era of his youth. His speeches were full of historical references, whether to English history or to the classical era, and he had a tendency to go on about WoodenShipsAndIronMen or the Middle Ages, always evoking a kind of HollywoodHistory to inspire the British people. He remained a believer in UsefulNotes/TheBritishEmpire well past the point that it was fashionable. All that being said, his historical imagination and respect for tradition helped him see that the kind of modernity the Nazis advocated would lead to a pretty horrifying future.
155	* UsefulNotes/OdaNobunaga lived with this belief, in a way. In a nation where old traditions and honor were revered, Nobunaga was a brazen young man that believed that people needed to constantly change and move on from the past. And so he did things that a lot of traditionalists wouldn't do, including disrespecting Buddhism, collaborating with foreigners, promoting meritocracy and using a lot of out-of-the-box thinking to win his battles (as exemplified in Nagashino where his musket tactics trounced the mighty Takeda cavalry). It also made him a terrifyingly powerful warlord who was very close to uniting the whole Japan, had it not been [[UsefulNotes/AkechiMitsuhide one of his men]] betraying him, and his whole middle finger to tradition made him very ripe to be given HistoricalVillainUpgrade by writers. In other words, to Oda Nobunaga, 'good' values like 'honor and tradition' were old-fashioned and to survive, people needed to embrace change.
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Context Main / GoodIsOldFashioned