| 1 | %% Image selected via crowner in the Image Suggestion thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1452266899092104700 |
| 2 | %% https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php?crowner_id=ljnio2m2 |
| 3 | %% Please do not change or remove without starting a new thread. |
| 4 | |
| 5 | [[quoteright:350:[[VideoGame/DevilMayCry https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/contested.png]]]] |
| 6 | [[caption-width-right:350:Dante wasn't feeling too crazy in ''2''.]] |
| 7 | |
| 8 | ->''"Grease your pitchforks and douse your torches in fanboy tears, fellow villagers, because depending on who you're speaking to in the'' VideoGame/{{Thief}} ''community, 2004's'' VideoGame/ThiefDeadlyShadows ''is alternately a brilliant and innovative sequel... or a botched abortion of Kermit Gosnellian proportions."'' |
| 9 | -->-- '''WebVideo/TheRageaholic''' |
| 10 | |
| 11 | Sometimes there's a {{sequel}} that attempts to address complaints viewers had with the original, or build upon the original's perceived strengths. Sometimes, in its attempt to do so, though, it may lose track of what made the original so great for many. If that happens, there may be [[BrokenBase a huge split in the fanbase]], with some fans saying that the sequel is [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel an excellent improvement]], with others saying that the sequel's improvements [[{{Sequelitis}} aren't worth the other changes made]]. This can result in large flame wars when someone who prefers the original argues with those who consider the sequel to be superior. |
| 12 | |
| 13 | Such installments can have worse long-term consequences than a sequel that is considered universally inferior. Sometimes, the company will try to fix things with the next installment in the series, only to make more friends and more enemies. This may lead to an UnpleasableFanbase. Quite often, if they try to fix something, half the fanbase will [[AuthorsSavingThrow be glad that it was fixed]], while the other half will accuse the creators of PanderingToTheBase. |
| 14 | |
| 15 | See also FirstInstallmentWins, and CriticalBacklash. |
| 16 | |
| 17 | '''Notes:''' |
| 18 | * This is not for sequels where fans overwhelmingly agree that [[{{Sequelitis}} the sequel is bad]]. It's for sequels where [[BrokenBase some fans think it's inferior, while others think it's as good as or better than previous entries]]. |
| 19 | * Also, it's generally not for [[FanonDiscontinuity sequels which fans do not regard as part of the series]]. Even well-received sequels can still be subject to ''some'' FanonDiscontinuity (often due to character deaths or ShipSinking), so it stands to reason that contested sequels inspire this even more, but because {{Sequelitis}} isn't in play, the installment generally has a fair share of defenders. |
| 20 | * Additionally, this is definitely not for sequels where [[EvenBetterSequel fans consider it better than the original]], unless there are also other fans who disagree. |
| 21 | * Sometimes, CanonDiscontinuity can apply when the ''creators'' become dissatisfied with a contested sequel and retcon or ignore it in later installments. Other times, CanonDiscontinuity doesn't happen because the work is poorly received, but whoever owns the rights to the franchise thinks they have a better idea about what to do next, causing a divergence from the established story. |
| 22 | * Please keep examples from degrading into [[FanHater complaining about]] the side [[ComplainingAboutPeopleNotLikingTheShow of the fanbase you disagree with]]. Give both sides a fair representation. |
| 23 | * As this is a sub-item to BrokenBase, the same rules apply here as well. There is a mandatory '''[[Administrivia/NoRecentExamplesPlease six month waiting-period]]''' after the work comes out to add examples. Audience reactions can be all over the place when a work first releases, so some time and perspective is needed to see where consensus (or lack thereof) lies. |
| 24 | ---- |
| 25 | !!Examples: |
| 26 | [[index]] |
| 27 | * [[ContestedSequel/LiveActionFilms Films — Live-Action]] |
| 28 | * ContestedSequel/VideoGames |
| 29 | [[/index]] |
| 30 | |
| 31 | !!Other Examples: |
| 32 | |
| 33 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 34 | |
| 35 | [[folder:Anime and Manga]] |
| 36 | * ''Bubblegum Crash!'' is considered one for the original ''Anime/BubblegumCrisis'' series, due to being a compressed version of the plot of the remaining five episodes. |
| 37 | * ''Anime/CodeGeass'' R2 is definitely base-breaking. Opinions vary if you considered the sequel as the best with cooler Knightmare frames or a heaping load of trainwreck particularly on the last episodes. And the ending was even more divisive. |
| 38 | * Both sides of ''Anime/Danganronpa3TheEndOfHopesPeakHighSchool'' are polarizing: |
| 39 | ** ActionizedSequel ''Future Arc'' is praised for its DarkerAndEdgier tone and the innovative killing game format, but criticized for the wasted new characters, fake deaths and, specially, for its disappointing villains. |
| 40 | ** Prequel ''Despair Arc'' is praised for the returning characters and the BigBad's villainy, but criticized for pacing, the {{Retcon}}s to pre-established lore, and the {{Flanderization}} of most of the ''VisualNovel/{{Danganronpa 2|Goodbye Despair}}'' cast. |
| 41 | ** The concluding ''Hope Arc'' is even more divisive; you'll see opinions ranging from "deserved happiness" to "cheap pandering" and everything in between. |
| 42 | * If it's a series of ''Franchise/{{Digimon}}'' that's not ''Anime/DigimonAdventure'', it qualifies. Although there are plenty who say ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' should fall under EvenBetterSequel (disregarding ''Adventure''[='=]s second series). |
| 43 | ** ''Anime/DigimonFrontier'' is the most highly contested due to its significant departure from the {{Mon}}s premise; ''Anime/DigimonFusion'' also gets this for similar reasons, though it's generally regarded higher than ''Frontier''. ''Anime/DigimonTamers'' and ''Anime/DigimonDataSquad'' get it for being DarkerAndEdgier (and in ''Tamers'''s case, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks not being another direct sequel]] to ''Adventure''), and ''Anime/DigimonAdventure02'' tends to get criticised under ItsTheSameNowItSucks. All of them have their supporters, especially ''02'' and ''Tamers''; BrokenBase fun ensues. |
| 44 | ** Adding another layer to the ''02'' BrokenBase comes the fact that most of the cast from ''Adventure'' (that is, anyone who's not T.K. or Kari, or their respective 'mons) got DemotedToExtra. Although ''02'' had only become officially cracked at the epilogue. No matter who you were, you had something to complain about the epilogue. |
| 45 | * ''Franchise/DragonBall'': |
| 46 | ** ''Anime/DragonBallGT''. On one hand, there's Creator/AkiraToriyama's relative lack of involvement, [[OffModel questionable character design choices]], [[BaseBreakingCharacter Pan]]'s portrayal as a BrattyHalfPint, and the fact that the MyKungFuIsStrongerThanYours got so unbalanced that Goku became [[CharacterFocus the only relevant character]]. On the other hand, it didn't suffer from the ArcFatigue of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', had some pretty [[SugarWiki/AwesomeMoments intense battle scenes]], and a TearJerker ending to nicely wrap everything up. [[BrokenBase One half of the fanbase worships it. The other half will strangle you for mentioning it.]] |
| 47 | ** The first ''[[Anime/DragonBallZCoolersRevenge Cooler]]'' movie and the first ''[[Anime/DragonBallZBrolyTheLegendarySuperSaiyan Broly]]'' movie are generally loved by the fans, but the sequels are more controversial. The second ''[[Anime/DragonBallZTheReturnOfCooler Cooler]] '' movie had serious OffModel problems and plot points that heavily contradict with the canon story and they don't make even that much sense in the movie itself, but it also had an intimidating villain with a cool concept and some fun, explosive fights. The [[Anime/DragonBallZBrolySecondComing second]] and [[Anime/DragonBallZBioBroly third]] ''Broly'' movies are both reckoned to be pretty bad, the former for its terrible pacing and boring, repetitive story, the latter for shifting the character focus to members of the cast besides Goku and Vegeta, scaling back the collateral damage, and using a disgusting mutant instead of the original Broly. On the other hand, when they aren't just arguing about which one is ''worse'', both films have their fans, since they let side characters (who normally get DemotedToExtra so the main two saiyans can [[SpotlightStealingSquad hog all the limelight for themselves]]) actually do things and be cool on their own. |
| 48 | ** ''Anime/DragonBallSuper''. Its fans tend to like its many new {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s [[note]]Beerus, Whis, etc.[[/note]], but its critics tend to dislike its controversial writing decisions [[note]]The Future Trunks Saga's sheer HappyEndingOverride of the Androids/Cell Saga, etc.[[/note]]. After the series concluded, most of its fans ultimately ended up agreeing that the series was too inconsistent in quality to really be superior to ''Z'', but argued that the show's peaks were on par with Z's peaks. |
| 49 | * ''Anime/JewelpetKiraDeco'' suffers from this, largely because most complainers belong to the PeripheryDemographic and they are disappointed with how much more childish this fourth season is compared to previous seasons, which often went out of their way to appeal to the otaku crowd. Meanwhile, younger viewers generally prefer this one over the [[Anime/JewelpetSunshine season]] immediately before it. |
| 50 | * [[SpiritualSuccessor Although not technically a sequel]], the fanbase is [[BrokenBase spilt]] between calling ''Anime/KillLaKill'' a great way of revisiting [[Anime/TengenToppaGurrenLagann its older brother's]] style and themes while some claim it to be a lame rehash that depended way too much on its predecessor's hype. |
| 51 | * ''Anime/{{Macross}}'', being a long-running franchise, inevitably has some of this: |
| 52 | ** ''Anime/Macross7'' took the idea of a song being the key to saving the world and ran as far and as fast with it as possible. Instead of the original ''Anime/SuperDimensionFortressMacross''[='s=] portrayal of a sad, desperate struggle for humanity's survival, the result is a rock star fighting space vampires with ThePowerOfRock. While the original ''SDF'' had a lot of silly moments, it wasn't to the extent of ''Macross 7''. |
| 53 | ** While not nearly as over the top as its predecessor mentioned above, there are a good number of people who consider ''Anime/MacrossFrontier'' to be fairly controversial in its own right, especially in regards to the two movies and the LoveTriangle (and its resolution... or lack there of, depending on the continuity). |
| 54 | ** ''Anime/MacrossDelta'' further split the fanbase between wanting to see the original mecha fights interspersed with a love triangle drama and newer fans who deeply appreciates the idea of an Idol group with mecha as its backup dancers. |
| 55 | * The second season of ''Manga/MinamiKe'' is loathed by a significant percentage of the show's fanbase, caused mostly by the combination of low-budget animation and an increase in {{fanservice}} to silly levels. Luckily, the third season met with a lot better reception. |
| 56 | * ''Anime/MagicalGirlLyricalNanohaStrikers'': |
| 57 | ** It was a Contested Sequel even before it aired due to the TimeSkip aging the nine-year-old main characters to adulthood; some were relieved that people might finally stop judging them for watching {{lolicon|AndShotacon}} bait, others saw it as an insult to the original. Later accusations came from the copious amounts of [[DemotedToExtra screentime]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad shafting]] resulting from the franchise's large cast, the heavy reliance on the ExpandedUniverse to [[AllThereInTheManual explain many minor events]], and the return to the slow pace of season one rather than a quick-moving plot like ''A's'' had. |
| 58 | ** It appears that the people behind Nanoha noticed how splintered the fandom became as they're making money out of both factions. On one hand, they've released a lot of ''[=StrikerS=]'' side materials and created TheMovie to make the first season more [=StrikerS=]-like. On the other hand, they started a whole new video game series which is an AlternateContinuity centered around ''A's'' where the heroines had yet to grow up and the phased out characters are still prominent (and playable). |
| 59 | ** ''[[Manga/MagicalRecordLyricalNanohaForce Force]]'' is a good example as well. While there were fans who liked it for maintaining the SequelEscalation of ''[=StrikerS=]'' themes (increased cynicism and AntiMagic), a lot of other fans dislike the new characters, the slow pace, the overall DarkerAndEdgier feeling, the somewhat questionable writing, the [[StoryBreakerPower ridiculously overpowered]] villains, and [[spoiler:[[EnsembleDarkhorse Signum]] suffering TheWorfEffect.]] It was so hated that it was actually QuietlyCancelled before it could finish telling its story. |
| 60 | * As a victim of the StarTrekMovieCurse, the Gundam meta-series is rife with hotly contested sequel series. Following the dark yet beloved ''Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam'' in the UC timeline, the lighter ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamZZ'' was either liked for alleviating the brutal darkness of its predecessor or hated for causing MoodWhiplash and feeling borderline saccharine at times. The UC entry ''Anime/MobileSuitVictoryGundam'' was also hotly contested for being [[SerialEscalation even more]] [[DarkerAndEdgier brutal and grimdark]] than ''Zeta''. ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny'' and the second season of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundam00'', the respective sequel entries in the CE and AD timeline, were liked for having more optimistic tones or criticized for controversial changes to characters and narratives. It didn't help that both ''Destiny'' and ''00'''s second season have been accused of ripping off ''Anime/MobileSuitZetaGundam''. It also didn't help that ''Destiny'' kept flip-flopping on who was the protagonist and who was the antagonist, which naturally divided fans of each of the main characters against each other. |
| 61 | %%* ''[[Manga/{{Naruto}} Naruto Shippuden]]'' has become a Contested Sequel over time due to the [[SpotlightStealingSquad focus put on Sasuke and the Uchiha Clan]], who happen to be [[BaseBreakingCharacter highly divisive characters]], which means that those who like them see this as a good thing, while the opposite goes for those who don't. Ironically, early on it was same because it took so long to put Sasuke on the screen at all, and his conflict with Naruto is, after all, the central conflict of the story. The Invasion of Pain Arc is generally considered to be the dividing point for Naruto fans. Many are willing to continue ahead to enjoy the remainder of the series and others consider it the final worthwhile arc and true ending to the series. |
| 62 | * As the sequel to the popular manga ''Manga/NegimaMagisterNegiMagi'', ''Manga/UQHolder'' has had [[ToughActToFollow a lot to live up to]]. Opinions on the series tend to vary on how much of a sequel it should actually be, since ''Negima'' ended [[LeftHanging very abruptly and did not resolve many of the major plotlines]] in a satisfying fashion. While ''Manga/UQHolder'' has addressed some of them, some people feel it should've been a brand new series, a more direct sequel, or is fine the way it is. Moreover, fans have felt at times the series relies far too much on its predecessor and refuses to stand on its own merits and thus allows ''Negima'' to overshadow its setting and characters. |
| 63 | * ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'': |
| 64 | ** The ''Anime/RebuildOfEvangelion'' movies get this from fans of the original series. Some fans and critics praised the films (especially the first two) for making a more coherent and condensed plot, as well as avoiding the original series' penchant for gratuitous StockFootage, while others complained about the BigBudgetBeefUp leading to more action at the cost of character development. Many fans of Asuka were particularly annoyed at the second film for [[spoiler: [[DroppedABridgeOnHim putting her in a coma for the big finale]]]]. |
| 65 | ** The third movie is so polarizing that it caused another split among fans of the previous Rebuild films. Some praise the film for being the darkest and most daring entry in the franchise (it's the first entry not to be based off any existing arc of the original anime), while others criticized the ''massive'' ContinuityLockOut, [[TooBleakStoppedCaring the mean-spirited nature of the movie]], and the fact that most of the cast ended up being {{Demoted To Extra}}s. |
| 66 | * ''Anime/PokemonTheSeries'': Almost every movie after [[Anime/PokemonTheFirstMovie the first]] is contested for one reason or another, so for brevity's sake not all of them will be listed. One notable example, however, is ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened''. Many, many people don’t like it for [[ReplacementScrappy using a brand new Mewtwo]] over the established and popular one from the aforementioned first movie, recycling a lot of elements from previous movies (especially glaring in Mewtwo's origin, which is nearly identical to the original's), and many more reasons.[[labelnote:*]]It doesn't help that this is one of the few movies to be acknowledged as canon in the series itself, alongside the first one.[[/labelnote]] That said, there are those who look past the Mewtwo controversy and see the movie as, if not ''good'', then at least not as horrible as the detractors make it out to be. |
| 67 | * ''Anime/PrettyCure'', not surprisingly for such an ongoing franchise. The second season, ''Anime/FutariWaPrettyCure Max Heart'', was this as some thought there was a drop in quality. Then there was ''Anime/FutariWaPrettyCureSplashStar'', which was either a boring re-tread of the original or an improvement on it. Then came ''Anime/YesPrettyCure5'', which removed the WonderTwinPowers and became a standard {{Sentai}} team of five magical girls. This change was either awful or it didn't matter because the result was still good. ''5'' had its own sequel season which was contested with the original. Then we get an aversion with ''Anime/FreshPrettyCure'', which is generally regarded as good, and then ''Anime/HeartcatchPrettyCure'', which is regarded as the best one out of all them. Which made ''Heartcatch'' a ToughActToFollow, because when that series ended every other series after it became an example of this. The only post-''Heartcatch'' season that doesn't suffer from contesting is ''Anime/GoPrincessPrettyCure'', and that's only because it's seen to be better than anything after ''Heartcatch''. |
| 68 | * ''Anime/PuellaMagiMadokaMagicaTheMovieRebellion''. There are those who consider it an EvenBetterSequel that takes the themes of the series in a new and even more interesting direction with an absolutely fascinating conclusion... and there are those who see it as a massive middle finger to everything that made the show good and absolutely hate the direction it takes at the end. Then there's those who think the movie as a whole is good but that the ending really drags it down, and those who like the ending but think the rest of it is overly padded... Basically the movie's divisive status is roughly on par with ''End of Evangelion''. The fact that it ended in a SequelHook of sorts (that leaves the movie virtually needing a follow-up) that still hasn't been resolved isn't helping matters... |
| 69 | * ''Anime/PsychoPass'' Season 2 is deeply contested as it was not written by Creator/GenUrobuchi. Viewers were annoyed with the lack of social commentary, the underutilization of the old characters (Ginoza, Yayoi etc.), Kougami’s absence, the random deaths of the first half, and the characterization of [[TheScrappy Mika]]. Others enjoy the show for [[RuleOfCool having more action]], a more dangerous antagonist than Makishima and the CharacterDevelopment of Akane. |
| 70 | * Creator/StudioBones' [[AnimeFirst original productions]] also tend to have these. Case in point, ''Anime/EurekaSevenAO'' (and by extension, ''everything'' released after the [[Anime/EurekaSeven original series]]) and ''Anime/DarkerThanBlack: Gemini of the Meteor''. The former went on the chopping block for poor planning and mishandling of a lot of promising ideas, and betraying a lot of values of the original series, and actually went as far as to have a revised final episode to diminish backlash. The latter is considered to be on the wrong end of a case of ToughActToFollow and a drop in quality. |
| 71 | [[/folder]] |
| 72 | |
| 73 | [[folder:Comic Books]] |
| 74 | * The ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'' [[ComicBook/BuffyTheVampireSlayer comics]], very much so. There are those who like it and those who are yelling that the franchise is ruined because of them. |
| 75 | * Meanwhile, the other Whedon series, ''{{Series/Firefly}}'' has it with the Boom! Studios comics. The Dark Horse comics and Titan books are fairly well liked, but the Boom! comics have become contested due to the Boom! writers not keeping up with previous material and making a lot of [[SeriesContinuityError continuity mistakes]] with them. |
| 76 | * ''ComicBook/TheDarkKnightStrikesAgain'', Creator/FrankMiller's sequel to the seminal ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns''. Many dislike it for being an ugly self-parody of the original work. Some like it for exactly that reason. |
| 77 | * ''ComicBook/FinalCrisis'' is one to ''ComicBook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' and ''ComicBook/InfiniteCrisis'', as the last part of the "Crisis Trilogy". To some, it is a masterful deconstruction of storytelling in superhero comics that is a poetic acknowledgement of all of the DC Universe, using high-concept ideas to tell a story about good winning over evil. To others, it is a pretentious, unfocused mess that lacks any cohesion as a story, and the embodiment of ContinuityLockout in a way that actually makes the story indecipherable. |
| 78 | * ''ComicBook/{{Runaways}}'' fans were not very keen on accepting their beloved characters as CListFodder in ''ComicBook/AvengersArena''. For that matter, neither are ''ComicBook/AvengersAcademy'' fans. Or Sentinel fans. Or fans of any of the pre-existing characters that ended up in Arena... There are some that liked that the series averted DeathIsCheap and liked the plot, but there were also just as many that would rather not see their favorite [[KidHero teen heroes]] die in a ''Literature/TheHungerGames''/''Literature/BattleRoyale'' FollowTheLeader book. The counter argument usually is that none of those characters were particularly popular to begin with (both ''Avengers Academy'' and ''Runaways'' received positive reviews but were cancelled due to poor sales), and that the fact that the characters were so obscure (thus meaning they were unlikely to get a quick resurrection) made the story [[AnyoneCanDie much more tense than the usual superhero fights]]. |
| 79 | * ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'': |
| 80 | ** The [[ComicBook/BeforeWatchmen prequels]] quickly fell into this, even before they were released. One of the main complaints is that they were being released ''at all'', in the face of the known feelings of its creator, Creator/AlanMoore. However, some have pointed out that he himself has been using other authors' creations for his own stories, such as ''ComicBook/TheLeagueOfExtraordinaryGentlemen'' and ''Lost Girls'', while DC is using Moore's creations for their own purpose. The only difference is that Moore primarily uses characters from authors who are long dead, so it's hard to see Moore being on the high ground in this particular regard. |
| 81 | ** Moore's side is even harder to get behind when you find out that almost all of the major characters in ''Watchmen'' were based on superheroes from Charlton Comics that DC prevented him from using. So he just ripped them off by creating new versions of them. However, some think that this made these characters more memorable than their original counterparts, but if the original idea had been used ''Watchmen'' might have been a Contested Sequel itself. |
| 82 | ** Fan regard for works set after the original graphic novel are even ''more'' complicated. While the [[Series/Watchmen2019 HBO series]] has [[WinBackTheCrowd won over]] many (with some even agreeing with critics that it's one of the best TV shows of the ''decade''), there are some who still favor the also-acclaimed [[ComicBook/DoomsdayClock comic sequel]]. Then there are those that favor both and try to fit them in the same continuity. [[FanonDiscontinuity Then there are others who agree with Moore and completely ignore anything without his name on it]]. |
| 83 | [[/folder]] |
| 84 | |
| 85 | [[folder:Fanfiction]] |
| 86 | * In ''Fanfic/TheStalkingZukoSeries'', Not Stalking Firelord Zuko, the third and final installment, fell into this trope. Its popularity is comparable to the other installments and it's liked for the same reasons (worldbuilding, CharacterDevelopment and the [[FanPreferredCouple Zutara]] romance). On the other hand, it has drawn criticism for the pacing (particularly how long it takes Zuko and Katara to get together), as well as how some characters, like Mai[[note]]While her getting back together with Zuko only to break up with him is inevitable, viewers are divided between whether the fic treats her well in spite of that, or reduces her to a snarky, emotionally manipulative jerk[[/note]] and Jet[[note]]who survived his "death" in Lake Laogai and returns just as obsessed with Zuko as before[[/note]], are portrayed. |
| 87 | [[/folder]] |
| 88 | |
| 89 | [[folder:Films -- Animation]] |
| 90 | * ''WesternAnimation/AllDogsGoToHeaven2''. While most fans of the first movie consider the second to be inferior because they say that it mostly lacks everything good from the original, others say that it's a superior followup to the original because it's [[LighterAndSofter not as depressing]] and it has a good story with catchy songs. |
| 91 | * Fans of ''WesternAnimation/AnAmericanTailFievelGoesWest'' argue it is better than [[WesternAnimation/AnAmericanTail the first movie]] because it's [[LighterAndSofter not as relentlessly dark]] and heavy focus on the secondary characters offers a more memorable supporting cast (including Creator/JohnCleese playing a villain). Fans of the original argue that making the sequel more light-hearted completely took away what made the first movie so great in the first place. That the sequel lacked Creator/DonBluth's involvement and feels radically different in art style and tone doesn't help.. |
| 92 | * ''WesternAnimation/DespicableMe2''. Some fans loved it as much as the original, while others were disappointed that it barely gave Gru and/or his adopted kids, Margo, Edith and Agnes anything new to learn about them (e.g. how they ended up in the orphanage before Gru adopted them). |
| 93 | * Creator/{{Disney}}: |
| 94 | ** No one actively ''dislikes'' it, but there's some frictions about ''WesternAnimation/TheRescuersDownUnder''. Some think it is a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel with a more original story and better animation, which replaces the original's "dull" and "cheesy" moments with action and ''Fantasia''-style spectacle, Disney Renaissance oblige. On the other hand, a lot of fans of the first movie think the more lush, computer-assisted style of animation doesn't fit the original's endearing 'sketchy' style, and many dislike the introduction of FurryConfusion to the franchise (with Marahute the Eagle, who is realistically drawn even though all the animals in the first movie, birds included, were [[TalkingAnimal talking animals]]). |
| 95 | ** Is ''WesternAnimation/Fantasia2000'' a worthy successor in modern style to the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Fantasia}}'', or a commercialized trainwreck brought down by cheesy celebrity appearances? It is an ongoing debate among Disney fans. |
| 96 | ** For every Disney Toon Studios DirectToVideo sequel, there is a huge discussion on whether it's good, decent, mediocre or horrible (though few argue that any is ''better'' than the original). |
| 97 | *** The very first, ''Westernanimation/AladdinTheReturnOfJafar'', is either a lazily written, pointless sequel made only for Disney to milk the cash cow that the original movie was, or a solid follow-up only hindered by a low budget that led to [[OffModel sub-par animation]]. |
| 98 | *** ''WesternAnimation/PocahontasIIJourneyToANewWorld'' did something that none of the others dared to try: permanently break up the main couple. As a result, many ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' fans hate it. However, given how divisive that film is, many who ''don't'' like the original think that the sequel is an improvement, noting that it is more historically accurate and gives Pocahontas herself a stronger character arc. |
| 99 | *** ''WesternAnimation/BambiII'' is one of the most divisive Disney sequels, largely because while it is one of the most lavishly made of Disney Toon Studios' efforts, it is also an {{Interquel}} for [[ToughActToFollow one of Disney's first and most iconic films]]. Fans of the first film complain the Interquel lacks the same artistic direction and nuance, with over focus on dialogue and cliche family plots, while fans of the second film prefer the warmer story and broader CharacterDevelopment over the deliberate vagueness of the first film for natural perspective. |
| 100 | *** ''WesternAnimation/AGoofyMovie''[='=]s DirectToVideo sequel ''WesternAnimation/AnExtremelyGoofyMovie''. Because [[ChuckCunninghamSyndrome Roxanne was removed]], Max and Goofy got AesopAmnesia, and there was an ExtremeSportsPlot, many people [[{{Sequelitis}} didn't like the movie at all]]. However, because the animation was really good, [[PluckyComicRelief Bobby]] became a BreakoutCharacter, Goofy got a {{Love Interest|s}} and PJ, TheWoobie, [[EarnYourHappyEnding earned his happy ending]] (which even some people who had less context were happy to see because it showed a [[FatBestFriend sympathetic fat character]] getting a girlfriend based on his personality), other people [[EvenBetterSequel thought it was amazing]] even if they [[SurprisinglyImprovedSequel hated the first one]]. The audience's reaction spans "awesome but the first one sucked", "even better than the first one", "as good as the first one", "not as good as the first one but still awesome", "not as good as the first one in most ways but better in some", "okay", "not very good but with some redeeming qualities" and "completely horrible". |
| 101 | *** Fans are still divided between those who think ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKingIISimbasPride'' is decent in its own right and those who remain unhappy that Disney didn’t use the book series spin-off from the original film as its basis. |
| 102 | *** Disney's ''Franchise/WinnieThePooh'' sequels are often considered the most worthy contenders to their original film, namely ''WesternAnimation/TheManyAdventuresOfWinnieThePooh''. Even some of the Disneytoon Studios' sequels have gained a cult following with fans of the franchise. However many still prefer the first film due to more closely adapting the original novels and their laid back, comedic but still sentimental tone, while some appreciate the sequels for taking on more ambitious, DarkerAndEdgier original storylines that allow for deeper CharacterDevelopment (particularly cases such as ''WesternAnimation/PoohsGrandAdventure'' and ''WesternAnimation/TheTiggerMovie''). The character focus is also a point of contention, since while the original film focuses more on the same primary cast as the novels, the later films often give limelight to some of the more minor characters such as Roo while placing mainstays such as Owl and Christopher Robin OutOfFocus. |
| 103 | ** The sequel to ''WesternAnimation/WreckItRalph'', ''WesternAnimation/RalphBreaksTheInternet'', became considerably divisive not very long after it was released. While a good number of folks like the sequel just fine and find it a worthy follow-up to the first movie, some others find it inferior for varying reasons. The most popular points of contention seem to be the premise itself [[note]]that takes place away from the arcade and other video game characters[[/note]], its sense of humor [[note]]some finding it hilarious, others found it lackluster and/or cringey[[/note]], and how Vanellope's character arc was handled [[note]]with some thinking it worked well and led to a meaningful lesson in not getting in the way of your friend's dreams and aspirations, while others absolutely reviled it for allegedly [[BrokenAesop going against the message of the first movie]] and [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic painting an unpleasant picture of Vanellope's character]][[/note]]. There are also some people, even Disney fans, who see the whole movie just as a marketing ploy from Disney to push their various brands. Some even suggest that the reason this film isn't panned as much as ''WesternAnimation/TheEmojiMovie'' even though they have similar premises is due to the reputation Creator/SonyPicturesAnimation had at the time and the large brand loyalty people have towards Disney. |
| 104 | ** ''WesternAnimation/FrozenII''. While the movie was well-received overall, there are some people who consider it a decent watch with some good moments, but ultimately paling to the original. Many criticized how the structure of the plot seemed messy while many characters took a backseat to the two sisters (and Olaf). Others consider it to be an EvenBetterSequel, due to the stronger character arcs, animation, music and working to [[AuthorsSavingThrow fix most problems that people had about the original]]. |
| 105 | * ''WesternAnimation/FindingDory'' is an odd case among Pixar movies. Its Rotten Tomatoes score is in the mid-90s, putting it nearly on par with ''WesternAnimation/FindingNemo'' and Pixar's other acclaimed classics, but the reviews themselves frequently note that [[ToughActToFollow the movie isn't as good as its predecessor]]. If one looks at Metacritic, its score is a respectable 77, whereas the first film has a score of 90. In any case, [[OverlyNarrowSuperlative it's considered the best-reviewed Pixar sequel that isn't a follow-up to]] ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory1'', and still seen as a worthy sequel and a good movie in its own right. And there are many who feel it's an EvenBetterSequel for the deeper story, faster pace, superior humor, and Hank. |
| 106 | * ''Franchise/HowToTrainYourDragon'': |
| 107 | ** Some people who dislike ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragon2'' criticize it for slower pacing and less ShowDontTell and heavier dialogue (or for killing off [[spoiler:Stoick the Vast]]). Others felt that it was a worthy sequel that explored dark themes such as war and death in a mature manner for a family film. |
| 108 | ** ''WesternAnimation/HowToTrainYourDragonTheHiddenWorld'' also gets this. Some find it an excellent GrandFinale to the ''How To Train Your Dragon'' saga that sent the characters off in a heartfelt way. Others find the movie's themes to be [[BrokenAesop completely disconnected from all installments of the series before it]] (in particular feeling like the movie goes out of its way to justify [[spoiler:Hiccup and Toothless parting ways and everyone releasing their dragons to go to the Hidden World with Toothless and his Light Fury mate]] at the end of the movie to the point of throwing continuity with and characterizations/character development in/over the first two movies and the various TV shows/specials out the window), and that the ending was unnecessary and [[{{Asspull}} nonsensical]] (not to mention [[EsotericHappyEnding potentially worrying]] [[FridgeHorror if the implications of said ending are taken into account]]). |
| 109 | * ''WesternAnimation/IceAgeDawnOfTheDinosaurs'' is quite contested; some consider it an absolute disaster, while others call it the best of the series. |
| 110 | * Some have criticized ''WesternAnimation/Incredibles2'' for having a plot similar to the [[WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles1 first movie]] [[SwappedRoles but with Helen's and Bob's jobs reversed]], and saw the villain as an inferior replacement to the well-received Syndrome. The ImmediateSequel status of this film didn't help either. On the other hand, a significant number of fans see the film as [[EvenBetterSequel even better]], as the movie significantly develops Helen's job life (in contrast to Bob's job life in the first movie, which was mostly covered in a montage) and Bob's home life was given significant focus as well. |
| 111 | * ''WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda3'' is either a good movie, [[FirstInstallmentWins but not as good as the first two]], or an EvenBetterSequel. That said, you'll be hard-pressed to find any fans that outright disliked it. |
| 112 | * The ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirls Equestria Girls]]'' series, namely the four films that precede the latter specials and shorts, are all over the place with this. The second installment, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]]'', is often considered one of the best entries in the series, thanks to [[RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap its character development for Sunset Shimmer]] and interesting villains in the Sirens. The third, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsFriendshipGames Friendship Games]]'', has the most varied reactions; Some people view it as the best of the bunch, due to Sunset's continuing [[BreakoutCharacter character development]] and for formally introducing the human world's Twilight Sparkle. Others view it as the worst of the bunch due to the main antagonist, Principal Cinch, coming off as completely underwhelming in comparison to the Dazzlings, and for wasting the potential of the [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter Shadowbolts]], who were built up to be the counterparts of the main cast, but ultimately the film proper gave them little focus, which irked the fans. Then there's yet another batch of people who say it's not as good as [[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsRainbowRocks Rainbow Rocks]] but better than the first movie. Meanwhile, ''[[WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyEquestriaGirlsLegendOfEverfree Legend of Everfree]]'' is often an afterthought, with no strong opinions surrounding it. |
| 113 | * ''Franchise/{{Shrek}}'' |
| 114 | ** While both ''WesternAnimation/Shrek2'' and its [[WesternAnimation/Shrek1 predecessor]] are widely loved, there are those who prefer the second movie for its better pacing, humor and character development, and there are those who prefer the first for its "[[WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids grittier]]" feel, more streamlined plot and [[FirstInstallmentWins greater impact on pop and Internet culture]]. |
| 115 | ** And on the other hand there's ''WesternAnimation/ShrekForeverAfter'', which is either a SurprisinglyImprovedSequel after the letdown of ''Westernanimation/ShrekTheThird'' by having a better plot and villain, or an even worse follow-up that completely abandons the actual characters. |
| 116 | * ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobMovieSpongeOutOfWater'', depending on whom you ask, it's either [[EvenBetterSequel better than]] ''WesternAnimation/TheSpongeBobSquarePantsMovie'', [[{{Sequelitis}} worse than]] ''[[{{Sequelitis}} The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie]]'', or good, but not as good as ''The [=SpongeBob=] [=SquarePants=] Movie''. Most agree it's an improvement over [[AudienceAlienatingEra seasons 6 through 8]] of [[WesternAnimation/SpongeBobSquarePants the show]], though. However, it takes place before the events of the first movie. |
| 117 | * The second and third ''WesternAnimation/TheSwanPrincess'' films. On the one hand, they're direct-to-video and feature almost none of the original voice cast (save for Odette and Puffin). But on the other, the plots are more original and interesting than many of the Disney DTV sequels. The second devotes a lot of screen time to the entertaining Queen Uberta, while the third features a very charismatic villain and has a [[DarkerAndEdgier surprisingly dark]] climax. Plus the animation is still pretty consistent across all three films. The latter two CGI sequels on the other hand... |
| 118 | * ''WesternAnimation/{{TMNT}}'' from 2007, which is a sequel to the preceding live-action films or at least the first one according to WordOfGod, gets a largely middle of the road response. Some finding it to be a dull entry with uninspired original villains that steal the spotlight from the Foot Clan, and others seeing it as a return to form to the tone of the original after the two goofier live-action sequels with some great action and praise in particular for the sub-plot concerning the rivalry between Leonardo and Raphael that comes to a head in this film. |
| 119 | * ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory4'' [[ToughActToFollow was already met with skepticism]] that it would stack up to the standards set up by the [[WesternAnimation/ToyStory1 first]] [[WesternAnimation/ToyStory2 three]] [[WesternAnimation/ToyStory3 movies]] (''especially'' the third movie, which had been regarded as the perfect GrandFinale to the series). Following the release of ''4'', reception was mostly positive among fans, critics, and audiences, who regarded the movie as a suitable and quality cap-off to the series. Despite this, some still took issue with the movie and found it a weaker grand finale than ''3'', with the biggest points of contention being two main things: [[spoiler: Bonnie (unwittingly or not) forgetting her promise to Andy at the end of ''3'' when Woody ultimately has become TheUnfavorite among her toys a year or two later]] and the ending where [[spoiler:Woody parts ways with long-time best friend Buzz and the other toys and joins his long-lost LoveInterest Bo Peep and her friends in their mission to help toys in need wherever the carnival goes]]; aspects fans who still swear by the ending of ''3'' feel [[HappyEndingOverride cheapens or outright ruins that movie's heartwarming but]] [[BittersweetEnding bittersweet]] [[HappyEndingOverride conclusion]]. |
| 120 | [[/folder]] |
| 121 | |
| 122 | [[folder:Literature]] |
| 123 | * Detractors of Creator/RogerZelazny's second series of ''Literature/TheChroniclesOfAmber'' novels point out that it swaps out the hero of the first series, a MagnificentBastard defined by his determination and ability to pull off ThePlan, for his son, a MartyStu defined by his ability to develop NewPowersAsThePlotDemands; and that the first series always felt like a fully planned-out puzzle that the reader just couldn't see until all the pieces were in place, while the second series felt like Zelazny was making it up as he went along. Fans of the second series love that it expanded on the mythology of the setting and showed the perspective of the villains of the first series. (Fans of the Amber RolePlayingGame either love or hate the second series for introducing bizarre Chaos-based powers and concepts that players aren't really supposed to have but at least one player in every group will take.) |
| 124 | * ''Literature/ACourtOfThornsAndRoses'': |
| 125 | ** ''A Court of Mist and Fury'' is seen by many fans as an EvenBetterSequel to ''A Court of Thorns and Roses'' (with some fans going so far as to call it the series' peak). Many fans loved Rhysand's characterization and HiddenDepths, especially his support of Feyre and their romantic subtext becoming text, as well as the plotline involving Feyre dealing with and overcoming post-traumatic stress disorder, which most readers found to be a nuanced and realistic depiction. Some fans also appreciated that the book averts DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale, instead treating the subject very seriously. That said, there are some readers who took issue with Tamlin's character arc in this book and its knock-on effect upon other characters, and the introduction of a love triangle (which YA fiction of the time tended to be oversaturated in) among other things, with some even regarding it as the 'beginning of the end' for the series. |
| 126 | ** ''A Court of Silver Flames''. Many see it as an improvement over ''A Court of Frost and Starlight'' due to having a plot with actual stakes, and enjoy the book's focus on fan-favorite Nesta, her journey of recovery and her relationship with Cassian. However, others have criticized how unpleasant many of the main characters act, especially towards Nesta, and the main villain being considered a weaker antagonist compared to Amarantha and the King of Hybern. The plotline involving Feyre's pregnancy also proved divisive; some enjoyed it and felt it was a great way to complete Nesta's arc, while others unfavorably compared it to ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' and felt it was disappointing and problematic due to Rhysand's behavior (which reminded some people of Tamlin), Nesta giving up her powers to save Feyre and her baby, and Feyre becoming rather passive and helpless. |
| 127 | * A few reviewers felt this way about ''Literature/TheHeroesOfOlympus''. While the book is generally thought of as ''good'', many believe that Creator/RickRiordan should definitely end ''Literature/PercyJacksonAndTheOlympians'' with this series, and not a ''third'' Great Prophecy. Thankfully, Rick has stated that he's going to be careful not to go overboard with the sequels. |
| 128 | * The ''Franchise/{{Dune}}'' series has this in two regards: |
| 129 | ** For many, the books stopped being good when they became more about overturning the archetypes established in the first book, culminating in the introspective ''Literature/GodEmperorOfDune''. Others feel this was the logical extension of the themes in the original and ultimately made the universe reach its intended conclusion. |
| 130 | ** Many fans detest [[Literature/HuntersOfDune the]] [[Literature/SandwormsOfDune sequels]] and [[Literature/PreludeToDune prequels]] by Frank Herbert's son Brian Herbert and co-writer Kevin J Anderson for bucking the complicated sociological and philosophical themes of the original novels in favor of light action stories, while their fans see them as more exciting and easily understood. |
| 131 | * Some people think ''Literature/EndersShadow'' is a brilliant switch of viewpoint from ''Literature/EndersGame''. Others think that its main character is a CanonSue, that it changes scenes to directly contradict the same scene in the original book and that it weakens Ender's victory from the original. |
| 132 | * ''Literature/PeterAndTheStarcatchers'': Some people like "Bridge to Neverland" for being LighterAndSofter, and journeying to modern times. Other fans dislike it for its TrilogyCreep, leaving some loose ends unresolved, being less quick-paced than previous books, and leaving behind the original supporting cast without even featuring their direct descendants. Adding to the controversy is how it retcons the original novel by having Captain Hook still alive long after the Victorian era. While this twist is appreciated by those who don't want to see Hook eaten by Mr. Grin, it is less pleasing to those who like how effective a build-up to the events of the original book ''The Sword of Mercy'' is. |
| 133 | * ''Literature/{{Redwall}}'' went on for a very long time, and almost every fan can agree that, at some point, the books started a sharp decline in quality. Getting them to agree exactly ''which'' book marks the point of decline is impossible, and every fan has at least one or two books during the AudienceAlienatingEra that they still enjoy. |
| 134 | * Creator/LarryNiven had originally intended ''Literature/{{Ringworld}}'' to be a one-off novel, but many fans wrote in to point out scientific or practical errors such as the fact that the Ringworld is unstable and the question of why its builders didn't build lots of small rings (a la [[Creator/IainBanks Iain M. Banks]]'s ''[[Literature/TheCulture Culture]]'' novels) instead, which would be much easier to defend. Niven decided to write ''Literature/TheRingworldEngineers'' to address these questions. Whether this addition improved the Ringworld or merely diluted its premise is a matter of debate among fans. |
| 135 | * Fans of ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' are divided with the [[Literature/AFeastForCrows fourth]] and [[Literature/ADanceWithDragons fifth]] books, particularly adding new POV characters who merely described the setting of the series and the ArcFatigue on Daenarys’ mission to reclaim the Iron Throne and the incoming ZombieApocalypse. Others seemed to be fine with the new characters and pointed out that the series doesn’t have a MythArc. |
| 136 | * ''Literature/TheTwilightSaga'''s fourth book (and the final one in the main series) ''Literature/BreakingDawn'' is divisive amongst fans. The Amazon page gives it an average 3-star rating -- because most of the reviews are either 5 stars or 1 star. In one camp, people thought it was a satisfying conclusion to the series; [[EverybodyLives all the main characters survive]] and live HappilyEverAfter, the LoveTriangle is resolved with no hurt feelings, all [[AudienceSurrogate Bella]]'s dreams come true and readers finally get to see what it's like to become a vampire in the ''Twilight'' universe, which had been hyped since the first book. Some readers also enjoyed the unexpected {{plot twist}}s, such as [[spoiler: Bella [[BabiesEverAfter getting pregnant]] with a {{dhampir}}]], especially as it helps [[WorldBuilding expand the lore]]. In the other camp, readers criticised ''Breaking Dawn'' for having ''very'' slow pacing in a book that's already a {{doorstopper}}, the lack of a climactic battle, certain plot threads being [[LeftHanging left dangling]] while others are tied up just a little too neatly, [[CreatorsPet Renesmee]] [[SpotlightStealingSquad hijacking the plot]], Bella becoming (in their view) an InvincibleHero and the twists relying on gaping {{plot hole}}s and/or {{retcon}}s. Team [[spoiler:Jacob]] were particularly unhappy with the outcome given Bella chooses [[spoiler:Edward]], as were those that shipped [[spoiler:Jacob and Leah]]. |
| 137 | * Creator/VCAndrews: Depending on who you ask, some sequels are worth reading, some are mediocre, and some should be tossed into an open fire. |
| 138 | ** The sequels to ''Literature/FlowersInTheAttic'' get this treatment. ''Literature/PetalsOnTheWind'' is either better or not as good as the first book, while ''Literature/IfThereBeThorns'' (wherein Cathy's sons Jory and Bart take over as the narrators of the book) and ''Literature/SeedsOfYesterday'' (Cathy is the narrator again, but not a whole lot really happens) are seen as inferior. ''Literature/GardenOfShadows'' is generally considered an improvement, despite being completed by Andrew's ghostwriter after her death. The ghostwriter-penned ''Diary'' series however is almost universally loathed by fans. |
| 139 | ** For ''Literature/CasteelSeries'', ''Literature/{{Heaven|1985}}'' and ''Literature/{{Dark Angel|1986}}'' are considered some of Andrews' best work (if not her best work ''period'') by fans, but everything after her death varies from person to person. ''Fallen Hearts'' is mostly seen as decent, but ''Gates of Paradise'' and ''Web of Dreams'' aren't too well liked (mostly for repeating plot points from the previous books, and for the former having an annoying narrator). |
| 140 | [[/folder]] |
| 141 | |
| 142 | [[folder:Live-Action TV]] |
| 143 | * The ''Battlestar Galactica'' franchise is notorious for this. |
| 144 | ** When comparing the [[Creator/{{Syfy}} Sci-Fi Channel]] remake of ''Series/{{Battlestar Galactica|2003}}'' to its [[Series/BattlestarGalactica1978 original counterpart]], which is often considered a [[NarmCharm cheesy yet charming]] 70's Sci-Fi series. Many fans of the original continue to wish Sci-Fi made a continuation of it (as was originally championed by cast member Creator/RichardHatch, who would go on to play a major character in the remake) as opposed to a remake and despise the 2003 series and regard it as an InNameOnly adaptation. |
| 145 | ** And for fans of the reboot, there's ''Series/{{Caprica}}'', which is a Contested ''{{Prequel}}''. Many fans of the reboot thought the series was overly melodramatic and slow as molasses with little of actual significance happening until close to the end, while ''Caprica'' fans praise the show's character-heavy storytelling as being superior and [[TrueArtIsAngsty more meaningful]] than what the reboot provided. |
| 146 | ** The short-lived second prequel series ''Series/BattlestarGalacticaBloodAndChrome'' saw almost precisely opposite responses to ''Caprica'', with virtually the same groups of fans respectively condemning it as a dumbed-down spectacle for lowbrow fanboys, or celebrating the return to space battles. |
| 147 | * This almost ''always'' happens whenever ''Series/DoctorWho'' tries to reinvent its villains to squeeze new life out of their future appearances, most famously with the New Dalek Paradigm, who didn't even get to fully display their purposes in the series because fans ridiculed their designs to death. |
| 148 | * ''Series/MakoMermaidsAnH2OAdventure'' has its fans, but the majority of the crowd would say that ''Series/H2OJustAddWater'' was better. Part of the crowd that did like ''Mako Mermaids'' say it should have been a standalone show unconnected to ''H₂O'''s lore, thanks to continuity {{revision}}s that were done to reconcile the fact that ''Mako Mermaids'' takes place in the same location as ''H₂O'', but almost a decade later. |
| 149 | * While ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'' and its' spin-off ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'' are adored by many people, the fans of those shows are split on whether the second ''Mister Rogers' Neighborhood'' spin-off, ''Series/DonkeyHodie'', is good or bad. Deractors say that the show is nothing like the series it was based on and lacks the charm of it, while those who like it praise it for the good puppetry and special effects, as well as doing its' own thing rather than being exactly like ''Mister Rogers'' was. |
| 150 | * ''Series/KamenRiderDecade'' is either a celebration of what makes ''Franchise/KamenRider'' great with an interesting MythArc story, or what could've been a great ReunionShow ruined by the use of {{Suspiciously Similar Substitute}}s and the few characters who ''did'' return being [[TheWorfEffect weakened to make Decade look stronger]]. One thing that fans ''will'' agree on is that the show should've had more than 2 episodes per arc - one arc in particular that needed more time was the "World of [[Series/KamenRider555 Faiz]]" arc, which had a very interesting idea, "Orphnochs can't go to school"...but said arc forgot about that idea due to it also being the arc that introduced the [[SixthRanger Secondary Rider]], [[PhantomThief DiEnd]][[note]]granted, the arc's set up was already very similar to that of the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderKiva Kiva]]" arc earlier in the show, but still[[/note]]. And then there's the "World of [[Series/KamenRiderDenO Den-O]]" arc, which could've served as a PostScriptSeason for ''[=Den-O=]'', as it was one of two arcs where Decade visited the actual world of said show (as opposed to [[AlternateUniverse an A.R. version]])[[note]]the other arc that Decade visits the actual world of being the "[[{{Crossover}} World of]] [[Series/SamuraiSentaiShinkenger Shinkenger]]" arc[[/note]], but it instead became a PoorlyDisguisedPilot for the ''Chou [=Den-O=]'' movies. |
| 151 | * ''Series/NirvanaInFire2'' for ''Series/NirvanaInFire''. The one thing all viewers agree on is [[{{Sequelitis}} it's not as good as the original]]. Opinion is split between whether it's a good but underwhelming sequel or a complete disaster. |
| 152 | * Franchise/StargateVerse: |
| 153 | ** ''Series/StargateAtlantis''. Many people thought it was just copying the ''Deep Space Nine'' model and you'll find frequent comparisons to those two series. On the other hand, others thought it was a decent series that did well to separate itself from the original with a new cast of characters and setting as well as changes in plot formulas that nonetheless stayed true to the spirit of the original. |
| 154 | ** ''Series/StargateUniverse''. In addition to the complaints about simply ripping off Voyager (after ripping off Deep Space Nine through Atlantis), the other major argument mirrors the ''Battlestar Galactica'' remake: was it an honest attempt to breathe new life into a franchise that had been going on for a dozen or so years on largely the same formula uninterrupted, or was it a botched attempt at making it DarkerAndEdgier that went straight into the series' AudienceAlienatingEra and thus became the FranchiseKiller, all in an attempt to [[FollowTheLeader mine the success]] of ''Battlestar Galactica''? |
| 155 | * All the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' series after ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' have some form of this. |
| 156 | ** ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''. The odd thing about ''Deep Space Nine'' was that its Contested Sequel status occurred ''after'' GrowingTheBeard - prior to that nearly everyone agreed it was simply too slow and literally too "stuck" in its stationary premise. Once the Dominion War arc occurred, many proclaimed that it was the best of the ''Trek'' series - however, others felt that it was a complete betrayal of Gene Roddenberry's vision of humanity's goals for the future while ''still others'' claimed that it didn't just [[FollowTheLeader copy]] but outright UsefulNotes/{{plagiari|sm}}zed ''Series/Babylon5'', with fans of that show still to this day providing "proof" that the writers directly plagiarized from a treatment Creator/JMichaelStraczynski had shown Paramount. |
| 157 | ** ''Series/StarTrekVoyager'' is regarded by many fans as being a bland continuation of ''The Next Generation'' in all but name, all the while [[{{Flanderization}} over-exaggerating]] the {{technobabble}} that people had come to associate with ''Trek'' (or they thought Captain Janeway was too morally-ambiguous, Neelix was too goofy, and/or Chakotay was too much of a MagicalNativeAmerican). Others think it was an enjoyable series that, while flawed, still delivered on decent action plots and interesting concepts. Many fans also cite ExecutiveMeddling as a reason for the show losing momentum and going all over the place later into its run. |
| 158 | ** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' was done primarily because fans had complained about the stationary nature of ''Deep Space Nine'' and the constant {{technobabble}} of ''Voyager''. Setting it in an earlier time period allowed [[HyperspaceIsAScaryPlace the scary nature of space travel]] to be more constant and the technology wasn't always the savior. There were fans who loved it from the start, fans who ''hated'' it from the start (usually due to the excessive {{fanservice}} and poorly-received episodes like "A Night in Sickbay" and "Dear Doctor"), and a third group who felt it had a hard time at first, but found its voice just before it was canceled (with a further subdivision based on whether the [[GrowingTheBeard beard was grown]] in season 3 or 4). |
| 159 | ** ''Series/StarTrekDiscovery'' ran into this as soon as details about the series were announced, ranging from the decision to set it ten years [[{{Interquel}} prior to the Original Series]], to the [[Film/StarTrek2009 Abrams-esque]] redesigns of the Starfleet uniforms, the Klingons, the ships and other elements, and the decision to make the show much more serialized as well as DarkerAndEdgier, as opposed to the LighterAndSofter episodic format that had predominated (and [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks grown tired]]) on both ''Voyager'' and ''Enterprise'' (and [[RuderAndCruder adding more and stronger profanity]]). If anything, the severity and vehemence of the BrokenBase has only ''intensified'' after the first season began airing, with a large {{hatedom}} passionately dedicated to savaging everything about ''Discovery'' for not immediately living up to their ideas about "what a ''Trek'' series [[PanderingToTheBase should be]]". |
| 160 | * ''Series/{{Torchwood}}'' ran for two normal series and then moved to the highly-acclaimed ''[[Series/TorchwoodChildrenOfEarth Children of Earth]]'' five-part epic. This was then followed by ''[[Series/TorchwoodMiracleDay Miracle Day]]'', which was equally ambitious and an attempt to co-produce between America and Britain, but unfortunately the most polarizing installment of the series for dragging on longer than necessary, as well as the one [[FranchiseKiller that stopped more series from coming out]], at least [[AudioPlay/BigFinishDoctorWho on TV]]. |
| 161 | * ''Series/Watchmen2019'' for fans of the comic ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}''. Aside from Creator/AlanMoore's infamous dislike of most adaptations based on his work, there's also a great deal of debate as to just how necessary a sequel was, whether it actually fits with the story originally told, and how well it expands on its themes. |
| 162 | [[/folder]] |
| 163 | |
| 164 | [[folder:Music -- Classical]] |
| 165 | * Music/HectorBerlioz's ''Lélio, ou Le retour à la vie'' is one to his ''Symphonie fantastique''. Whereas ''Symphonie fantastique'', despite its program, was an instrumental work, ''Lélio'' is made up mostly of choral movements [[DolledUpInstallment originally written independently]] linked together with spoken narration. |
| 166 | [[/folder]] |
| 167 | |
| 168 | [[folder:Music -- Popular]] |
| 169 | * Music/EltonJohn's 2006 sequel to his 1975 autobiographical, classic ConceptAlbum ''Captain Fantastic And The Brown Dirt Cowboy'', titled ''The Captain And The Kid'', did not do as well critically or commercially as the first one, though it did get some favorable reviews. |
| 170 | * All of Music/{{Eminem}}'s albums after ''Music/TheMarshallMathersLP'' are debated bitterly by critics, ranging from a mild but notable debate over whether ''Music/TheEminemShow'' is too [[KinderAndCleaner uncontroversial and commercial]] or his great masterwork, to a much nastier debate over the value of his post-overdose material. |
| 171 | ** It's common for fans to call ''Music/{{Encore}}'' the worst album ever, or at least have some extremely negative words for the [[AlbumFiller run of stupid comedy songs]] in the middle. However, a few people and even professional critics find it better than ''The Eminem Show'', due to it being much funnier and more [[SelfDeprecation self-deprecating]], and with a heavily Dre-driven production. |
| 172 | ** ''Relapse'' has a debate over whether it's nonsensical and unfunny [[ExploitationFilm sensationalism]] where Eminem raps garbage over unfashionable beats in racist accents about [[TooBleakStoppedCaring depressing murder fantasies]], or a CultClassic ConceptAlbum which uses a SlasherMovie allegory to [[AddictionSong explore the misery of his drug addiction]], employs his career-best beat-riding, and is a highlight of his discography (or even, for some, his only truly great album - Music/TylerTheCreator has suggested as much). |
| 173 | ** ''Recovery'' also creates very strong reactions. It served as Eminem's CareerResurrection, being perceived at the time as a return to his glory days that cemented his place in the rap pantheon, and it's still common to see people citing it as their favourite Eminem album, praising Eminem's new [[TookALevelInKindness mature and empathetic persona]], his fusion of "white-trash" genres like SouthernRock and CountryMusic with hip-hop, and and claiming its loving, emotional content got them through hard times. It's also common to see people considering it his worst album, a sickly one-eighty on his older and more interesting heel persona in which his {{Glurge}}y SelfEmpowermentAnthem lyrical content is undermined by [[CluelessAesop grossout humour]], [[HurricaneOfPuns groanworthy puns]] and [[RadioFriendliness radio-bait pop production]]. Opinions are also split on whether his new hyper-aggressive, drum-solo-like rhythmic style is awesome and dramatic, or robotic and grating. A small but loud group hate the ''Recovery'' style ''so much'' that they contrived a conspiracy theory that the Eminem of ''Recovery'' onward is a body double to replace the original, who died of his drug overdose or was offed at some point after ''The Re-Up''. |
| 174 | ** Probably the most polarising album is ''The Marshall Mathers LP 2'', which, depending on who you ask, is a personal, deep, and [[ContinuityNod continuity-referencing]] [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow rock album]] displaying his stylistic versatility and [[TookALevelInKindness improved personality]], exploring wacky, retro and innovative pop and hip-hop sounds and demonstrating the greatest technical rapping of his career, or a pandering, shallow, overtechnical and inconsistent GoodIsBoring [[RockIsAuthenticPopIsShallow pop album]] by a relic [[AgeInappropriateDress dressing like a teenager in his forties]] who is out-of-step with modern hip-hop ''and'' moral sensibilities, still saying disgusting homophobic and misogynistic slurs even though his [[RatedGForGangsta shock value]] disappeared long ago. It's not uncommon to find people who think ''[=MMLP2=]'' is up there with, or better than, his Persona Trilogy, and it's also not uncommon to find people considering it completely unlistenable. Some say it is [[EvenBetterSequel better than the first]] ''LP'' -- others view it as a stain on Eminem's masterpiece. |
| 175 | ** Due to Eminem's... polarising personality, it's not uncommon for both the case for worship and prosecution to be made in the ''same review''. "Eminem's best album since ''Music/TheEminemShow'', and the rapping is unbelievable, but his personality and aesthetic is extremely annoying and the rapping is so good that it becomes horrible" has been a common trope to see in reviews of his work since ''Relapse'', especially ''Revival'', ''Kamikaze'' and ''Music To Be Murdered By''. |
| 176 | %%* Every work done by Mägo de Oz after ''Gaia: Epílogo''. |
| 177 | * Everything Music/{{Metallica}} have done since, depending on your point of view, either ''Master Of Puppets'', ''... And Justice For All'' or the Black Album. |
| 178 | * Similarly, every Music/PearlJam has released since 2002 has earned some review saying it's "the best since ''Vitalogy''", given that everything after said third album splits the base uniformly. |
| 179 | * The album ''Liebe Ist Für Alle Da'' is this for Music/{{Rammstein}}. Fans are split over whether it's their best album since ''Mutter'', or it's just as disappointing as ''Rosenrot''. |
| 180 | * Music/MachineHead became a victim of this trope with their 2018 album, ''Catharsis''. This is due to its heavy Main/NuMetal sound compared to the band's previous four releases [[note]]''Through the Ashes of Empires'' (2003), ''The Blackening'' (2007), ''Unto the Locust'' (2011), and ''Bloodstone and Diamonds'' (2014); all of which received universal acclaim[[/note]] which had their usual Main/GrooveMetal and Main/ThrashMetal combination. The fan reaction to the preview tracks grew worse and worse with each track (particularly "Kaleidoscope", which was absolutely ''savaged'' by the fanbase), and the critical reception wasn't much kinder. The general mood ''before it was even released'' was along the lines of "how on earth did Robb Flynn think this was a good idea", which was further intensified when Flynn [[TakeThatCritics attacked one of the more scathing reviews]]. Many believe that Flynn and the rest of the band did not learn their mistakes from releasing ''The Burning Red'' and ''Supercharger''. |
| 181 | * Music/{{NWA}}'s final album, ''[=Niggaz4life=]'' is this. Depending on who you ask, it is either an awesome, fun gangsta rap classic with far better production value than ''Straight Outta Compton'' and proof that the group did just fine without Ice Cube, or a huge step down from ''Straight Outta Compton'' that is hurt by Ice Cube's absence, and a {{Flanderization}} of the band that tries way too hard to be shocking for its own good. |
| 182 | * Music/SuicideSilence thought it was a good idea to experiment with the [[NuMetal most controversial metal genre in existence]] for their 2017 self-titled album. Unfortunately, sitting around without Mitch Lucker recording clean vocals did nothing for the band and ''Suicide Silence'' received polarizing reviews from critics, and ended up performing much worse than the previous record, ''You Can't Stop Me''. It's kind of funny since [[Music/BringMeTheHorizon there's another band that was successfully able to switch to nu metal]] compared to Suicide Silence. |
| 183 | [[/folder]] |
| 184 | |
| 185 | [[folder:Tabletop Games]] |
| 186 | * ''TabletopGame/BattleTech'''s been feeling this one ever since they introduced the Jihad storyline and the Dark Age, as well as the click-based figure sets. Does the click system streamline the often slow process of play of the original tabletop game while providing fully colored, highly detailed models that represent the units they're supposed to, or does it deviate too far from the HumongousMecha-dominated setting of the original Succession Wars and introduce a confusing set of inconsistent and easily exploited rules while also removing the unit customization that was central to a player's preparation? While the events of the Jihad and Dark Age are accepted as canon, the acceptance of the click-base game as a sequel to the original wargame is something fans have disagreed on heatedly for some time. A few fans have been shown to TakeAThirdOption and use the more visually appealing ''Mechwarrior Dark Age'' models to play classic ''Battletech''. |
| 187 | * The fourth edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has this in spades. All previous editions built on the same basic structure created back in the 1970s, but 4th Edition rebuilt the game from the ground up. Half the fanbase loves it for its tightly defined rule set, tactical depth, strong support for the DM, ease of play and giving every class, even former [[LowTierLetdown Low-Tier Letdowns]] like the [[BareFistedMonk Monk]] a fair shot at being as awesome as [[LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards Wizards]]. The other half hates it for its reliance on GameplayAndStorySegregation, its heavy focus on battle mat combat, the shoehorning of all classes into the same mechanical structure, and a lot of gratuitous changes to D&D lore. Other editions saw similar arguments, but none were quite so contentious as that one. |
| 188 | * The developers of ''TabletopGame/{{Exalted}}'' Third Edition are pretty unashamed in their hatred of many decisions made in second edition from a design and storytelling perspective. During the promotion for their Kickstarter, White Wolf's Community Manager asked a /tg/ user to please not play 2E and just wait for their new one. |
| 189 | * Fans of the original ''TabletopGame/SushiGo'' are divided on the [[UpdatedReRelease expanded re-release]] ''Sushi Go Party!''. Those who like it enjoy how the new cards and menus offer new possibilities for play, especially if they feel that the original has got stale, or want to play the game in a setting the original wasn't really suited for (e.g. with a player count of 2 or 6-8). Those who don't like it feel that it sacrificed the original's simplicity (just bring the small box, shuffle up and play, while ''Party!'' has a bigger box and may require you to sort cards) for little gain, and that the new card designs aren't that good. |
| 190 | [[/folder]] |
| 191 | |
| 192 | [[folder:Theatre]] |
| 193 | * Everyone agrees that ''Theatre/HarryPotterAndTheCursedChild'', for not being written by the series' creator, "feels like fanfic" and should be at most be given a BroadStrokes treatment. But does it work as a sequel for its wonderful emotional beats and bringing back all their old nostalgia, or is it a worthless ClicheStorm rife with convoluted plots and questionable characterization? |
| 194 | * ''Theatre/LoveNeverDies'', the sequel to Andrew Lloyd Webber's ''Theatre/ThePhantomOfTheOpera''. Is it a musically schizoid mess, or just a more modern show? Was the London production better than the Australian one? Does it really give the characters more depth, or just erase all the development they gained by the end of the first installment? Is it canon? Were the changes justified? Any opinion will start a flame war in the phan community, with very few outright defending it but many admitting it has some strengths, while the others hold it as a travesty that should be forgotten about and hated. |
| 195 | [[/folder]] |
| 196 | |
| 197 | [[folder:Toys]] |
| 198 | * ''Toys/MonsterHigh'' has three distinct generations, and every generation after the first falls into this trope. [=G3=]'s quality in particular is hotly contested; while it's generally agreed that the increased diversity of the characters is done well, fans are quick to argue over whether the other aspects of it are just as good as, better than, or worse than [=G1=] was. Comparatively, while [=G2=] does have a few fans, it's widely considered an AudienceAlienatingEra. |
| 199 | [[/folder]] |
| 200 | |
| 201 | [[folder:Visual Novels]] |
| 202 | * ''Franchise/AceAttorney'': |
| 203 | ** ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyJusticeForAll'' is quite contested. On the plus side, the addition of the Magatama makes the investigation segments more interesting, while the trials are constrained to two days instead of three. The negatives are the unevenness of the cases, ranging from "Farewell, My Turnabout" - generally accepted as one of the best of the ''Ace Attorney'' franchise - to "Turnabout Big Top" - featuring several of the [[TheScrappy most hated]] one shot characters in the series, as well as almost no relevance to the surrounding cases. |
| 204 | ** And then came ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney''. Some people loved the improved graphics and animation, the plot's focus on the [[KangarooCourt weaknesses of the legal system]] and international politics, and the decreased emphasis on an increasingly complex continuity. Other people felt [[ReplacementScrappy Apollo is an unworthy replacement for Phoenix]], Klavier is too {{nice|Guy}} compared to the prior games' [[AmoralAttorney prosecutors of questionable morality]] and the middle two cases are goofy and poorly written with unmemorable villains. |
| 205 | ** ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneySpiritOfJustice'' is also rather divisive, even compared to the other games in the Apollo Trilogy. |
| 206 | *** Those who praise the game consider it one of the most entertaining games in the series and vast improvement from the previous mainline entry ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]''. Common points of praise include the vastly more consistently written and intelligent mysteries which don't resort to constant hand-holding or constant uses of ContrivedCoincidence, the much grander and epic storyline, the interesting and likable new characters for the cases themselves and giving Apollo a proper epic case to handle. Of them, "[[BestLevelEver The Magic Turnabout]]" is especially beloved by fans due to finally giving Trucy proper CharacterDevelopment and overall being one of the best cases in the series in terms of construction. |
| 207 | *** The critics for the game, on the other hand, are far harsher to the story (with the pointed exception of "The Magic Turnabout"), and consider the game one of the worst in the series. Common complaints include the Kingdom of Khura'in being a gimmicky and implausible setting, Nahyuta being a poorly written and incredibly unlikable rival with a nonsensical character arc, Maya being an AdvertisedExtra and the story suffering from immense pacing and focus issues due in large part to splitting the story across two separate countries with different characters. The final case espcially attracts complaints due to the heavily convoluted nature of it that rather clumsily attempts to make Apollo the main protagonist, and for the rather underwhelming nature of [[spoiler:Ga'ran]] as a villain. |
| 208 | * ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaV3KillingHarmony'' ended up being praised for its improved gameplay mechanics and bonus content, but criticized for the last chapter's [[BrokenBase plot twist]] (and to a lesser extent, for [[spoiler:killing off the first female protagonist in the main series]] in the first chapter), as well as for [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks a general inability to break away from or subvert the traditions set by the first two games]]. |
| 209 | [[/folder]] |
| 210 | |
| 211 | [[folder:Webcomics]] |
| 212 | * ''Webcomic/HomestuckBeyondCanon'' has been received significantly better than the infamous ''[[Literature/TheHomestuckEpilogues Homestuck Epilogues]]'', but it still has received many complaints from ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'' fans for quite a few reasons. Many fans are upset about [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight Andrew Hussie no longer writing the story]], the lack of Flashes, and the directions that certain characters have taken (such as [[spoiler:Rose cheating on Kanaya with Jade]]). |
| 213 | [[/folder]] |
| 214 | |
| 215 | [[folder:Western Animation]] |
| 216 | * ''WesternAnimation/AllGrownUp'' is divisive among ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' fans -- some like seeing the main characters as preteens and like how Angelica is less of a brat, while others think the show is boring and too similar to shows like ''WesternAnimation/AsToldByGinger''. The changes to Kimi are also a point of debate -- some think she's better than she was in ''Rugrats'', while others think that turning such a bubbly, happy character into a grumpy DeadpanSnarker was just annoying. |
| 217 | * ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'': |
| 218 | ** Its sequel series, ''The New Batman Adventures''. Airing on a new station, the creators and cast returned, for the most part, and the art got revamped for the sake of smoother animation and to match the style used for ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries''. But controversy was afoot; all the characters got a redesign, either minor or major. Batman, Robin and Batgirl looked fairly similar, and the new grisly Scarecrow was loved by everyone, but Joker, Two-Face, Croc, Baby Doll, Poison Ivy and Riddler weren't received nearly as well. The tone of the series is said to have suffered as well, with the focus widening to include Robin and Batgirl in most episodes. However, the series still produced some very memorable episodes, such as "Over the Edge", "Old Wounds", and "Mad Love". |
| 219 | ** Later, ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond''. On the one hand, it had a distinctive aesthetic, an excellent soundtrack, and a neat "What If" style look at the future of Gotham. On the other hand, it had a real tightrope to walk between leaning too hard on Bruce's past and classic villains and introducing new characters and conflicts that had a bad habit of feeling a little... high school. Of course, it was doomed to be hated by some segment of the fandom from the moment they made the decision to [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks put someone besides Bruce Wayne in the Batsuit.]] |
| 220 | * ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' is nigh-universally considered one of the best, if not ''the'' best, Franchise/{{Transformers}} series ever made. Its sequel, ''WesternAnimation/BeastMachines''... Not so much. Even then, BM has some fans who claim that, while it's not as good as BW, it's still a good series. |
| 221 | * Every follow-up to ''WesternAnimation/Ben10'' falls under this, with no two fans really agreeing on the quality of each successor series. |
| 222 | ** ''WesternAnimation/Ben10AlienForce'' and ''WesternAnimation/Ben10UltimateAlien '' made the franchise DarkerAndEdgier, making the characters far more mature and competent and putting heavy emphasis on [[SeasonFluidity serialization]]. Detractors of the two shows believe such changes didn't feel like a natural progression for these characters, and that they came across as [[NotAsYouKnowThem entirely different people]]; '''especially''' Kevin, a major villain who underwent a HeelFaceTurn in ''Alien Force'''s first episode. The two series also contradicted many things from the original series, with [[AuthorsSavingThrow some getting]] [[AllThereInTheManual explained away]], and [[{{Retcon}} others not]], which only served to break the fanbase even more. |
| 223 | ** ''WesternAnimation/Ben10Omniverse'' was created in order to feel more like the original series in tone, while also working to fix any continuity issues that ''Alien Force''/''Ultimate Alien'' had. While there were fans who enjoyed this iteration, there are others who felt that ''Omniverse'' had gone too overboard in the DenserAndWackier department. The [[WesternAnimation/Ben102016 2016 reboot]], which puts its focus on comedy rather than action/adventure and is also far more episodic than every other installment, receives the same criticism. |
| 224 | * ''Series/CodeLyokoEvolution'' is this to ''WesternAnimation/CodeLyoko'' for a multitude of reasons, with the most blatant one being that the real world outside of Lyoko is now live-action, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks replacing the 2D traditional animation of the original]]. The divide isn't helped by the showrunners of the first series not only having [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight little to do with the sequel]], but also outright disowning it due to the new creative team completely ignoring any input they gave. |
| 225 | * ''WesternAnimation/DanielTigersNeighborhood'', a sequel series to ''Series/MisterRogersNeighborhood'', has its fans, who say that the show is cute and it's nice that a new generation is getting a ''Mister Rogers''-style show, and its detractors, who either say that writing a sequel at all was wrong, or that it should have been live-action and/or slower paced, that the main characters are annoying, and/or that [[AdaptationalNiceGuy Lady Elaine was too different]]. |
| 226 | * ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'', the sequel series to the much-beloved ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender''. The shows differ greatly in character (the main cast of ''Korra'' are older teens and adults as opposed to kids), setting (''Korra'' is UrbanFantasy as opposed to HighFantasy), structure (''Korra'' is serialized with distinct season arcs, while ATLA was more episodic with a MythArc), and tone (''Korra'' more explicitly dealt with political drama), which is enough to ruffle some feathers. But thanks to some perceived missteps throughout its run, especially during its first two seasons (with even the show's biggest fans [[SophomoreSlump tending to dislike Book 2]]), the fanbase was quickly divided mainly into those who consider it a worthy-but-flawed successor to the first series and those that consider it to have too many failures to be considered a good follow-up. And in the years since its conclusion, there's now a sizable group who believe ''Korra'' [[EvenBetterSequel to be the superior cartoon]], with even the divisive first two seasons seen as fantastic in their own right. |
| 227 | * ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies2018'': Some people think the show is too childish and too dissimilar to ''WesternAnimation/MuppetBabies1984'', while others think that the show is cute and that its childishness makes sense because it's a kids' show. |
| 228 | * The second of the ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyTVSpecials'', ''Escape from Catrina'', gets this. It lacks the dark atmosphere of the previous special, none of the ponies from the previous special appear, Megan got a GirlinessUpgrade combined with her becoming the leader, the animation style isn't as realistic, and it has AVerySpecialEpisode feel. It's still considered far above ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyAndFriends'' though. |
| 229 | * ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic'': Season 5 in general is seen as this to Season 4, which was seen as a return to form for the show. From the aforementioned characters, Starlight Glimmer, and the Season finale, Season 5 is a hot point of contention because of the lack of much of the interesting arcs and stories Season 4 had, as Season 4 had the Rainbow Chest/Rainbow Power overarching plot, Weird Al guest starring in a Musical Episode, the Power Ponies, the Equestria Games, the Breezies, weird bat transformations, the continuation of the Discord arc, etc. The mid-season hiatus didn't help matters either. |
| 230 | * ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'': |
| 231 | ** ''WesternAnimation/APupNamedScoobyDoo'': Some viewers like it for the {{running gag}}s such as Red Herring and "Velma said jinkies!", while others dislike it for being even more cartoonish than the original, because they feel the SpinoffBabies trope is a cliche, or because they feel like some episodes like "Scooby Dude" were too {{anvilicious}}. |
| 232 | ** ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooMysteryIncorporated'': Some people like how it was grittier than the other ''Scooby-Doo'' cartoons and gave the characters flaws, while others thought the show was ''too'' dark and the characters ''too'' flawed. Fred and Daphne, and Shaggy and Velma, are [[AdaptationalRelationshipOverhaul now together]] and some viewers (usually [[{{Shipping}} shippers]]) like this, while others thinks it makes the show too emotional (especially with Shaggy and Velma, since it often leads to [[GreenEyedMonster Scooby getting jealous]]). In addition, Velma is [[AdaptationalJerkass made into]] an InsufferableGenius, and some viewers think this is funny, while others think it's obnoxious. |
| 233 | * ''WesternAnimation/{{Recess}} - Taking the Fifth Grade'' is either a decent movie or mediocre compared to ''WesternAnimation/RecessSchoolsOut''. General consensus is that the film is pretty good, but not as good as ''Recess: School's Out'', and that it's a good film by Disney's DirectToVideo standards. |
| 234 | * ''WesternAnimation/Rugrats2021'': Some people think that it's good to bring the show back, while others hate it for the art style, [[AdaptationPersonalityChange making Grandpa Lou zen]], and/or making Betty a stereotypical ButchLesbian and in the process [[AdaptedOut adapting out Howard]]. |
| 235 | * ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverseFuture'', the {{mini series}} epilogue to ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse''. Some fans loved the season, liking that some of the loose ends got tied up, enjoying the new concepts and characters, and viewing Steven's story arc dealing with depression and PTSD as both a great {{deconstruction}} of the character and a realistic and well-done depiction of such issues. Meanwhile, others thought that the season was full of [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter wasted]] [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot potential]], with some questions ''still'' not getting answered, that Steven's arc was underwhelming at best and ''insulting'' to real-life depression and PTSD at worst, and that ''Future'''s finale was less satisfying than the (similarly polarizing) finale of the original series, believing the show should have ended with [[WesternAnimation/StevenUniverseTheMovie the movie]]. |
| 236 | * ''WesternAnimation/TotalDrama'': |
| 237 | ** ''World Tour'', big time. Some fans love it for the addition of new contestants Alejandro as an awesome BigBad and Sierra as a hilarious AscendedFangirl, the focus and development given to {{Ensemble Darkhorse}}s who had been left out of ''[[SophomoreSlump Action]]'' (like Noah, Cody, Ezekiel, and Tyler), the catchy and entertaining musical numbers, and the CharacterDevelopment of former BigBad Heather into a mild AntiHero. Other fans despise the season for its mistreatment of longtime fan favourites (like Izzy, Bridgette, Leshawna, and DJ), poor handling of the returning favourites (Noah and Tyler were eliminated halfway, Cody became an EliminationHoudini, and Ezekiel got turned into a monster), Alejandro being an InvincibleVillain and Sierra being an annoying StalkerWithACrush, and the continuation of the Courtney/Duncan/Gwen LoveTriangle, a plot which many found tiring even during the season before (it doesn't help that the reason as to why it was continued this season was a result of ExecutiveMeddling). |
| 238 | ** Not to the same extent as ''World Tour'', but ''Revenge of the Island'' was, [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks of course]], getting this long before it aired due to replacing the entire cast of contestants with newcomers. Some say that the change gave new life to a series that was clearly running out of things to do with its old cast and thus adore the newcomers and their quirks, while others say that throwing away the old characters like that is what ruined the show and thus see the newcomers as poor man's replacements. Not helping was the shortening of the season's length from 26 to 13 episodes, which doubtlessly annoyed many fans. |
| 239 | ** ''Pahkitew Island'' either did many things right or was yet more proof of the series losing its touch. Those who believe in the former say the third batch of new contestants saved the show after the much-hated ''All-Stars'' season, saw the change of setting and increased focus on wilderness survival as a nice change of pace, and enjoyed the overarching mystery around the island. Those who hate the season despise the new cast as one-dimensional and gimmicky, feel its story arcs to have been poorly handled, and believe its villains to have been among the worst in the show's history. |
| 240 | * ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRobotsInDisguise'' contrasts the more serious tone that ''WesternAnimation/TransformersPrime'' into a more light tone. Humor has been implemented, making it somewhat compared to the spin-off series, ''WesternAnimation/TransformersRescueBots''. The story revolves around capturing prisoners that are considered Decepticons which spawned the problem with fans that most of these are MonsterOfTheWeek, although the show itself manages to obtain a BigBad. The fans liked the idea of Bumblebee becoming the central character rather than Optimus Prime since it's established that [[KidAppealcharacter Bumblebee]] himself is a character loved by all the kids. |
| 241 | [[/folder]] |
| 242 | |
| 243 | [[folder:Other]] |
| 244 | * A strange case pops up with ''Film/{{Tron}}''. Creator/{{Disney}} wasn't all that interested in making a sequel, but Steve Lisberger got permission to shop around the idea of a video game. This became ''VideoGame/TronTwoPointOh'', a FirstPersonShooter that, despite getting released in the same summer as ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'' and ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', was still a modest success. The game spawned a comic book miniseries by Slave Labor Graphics. Between the two, it helped convince Disney there was enough interest in a sequel. Cue ''Film/TronLegacy'', the ''Betrayal'' comic, the ARG, and ''WesternAnimation/TronUprising'' that put 2.0 into CanonDiscontinuity. Some fans prefer 2.0 to ''Legacy'', citing 2.0's attempt to translate modern computer systems, and feeling the look and tone are closer to the original. Some prefer ''Legacy's'' DarkerAndEdgier take. Others will just shrug and say [[TakeAThirdOption both]] [[PatchworkFic could be canon]] by making a few tweaks to both timelines. (It helps that Flynn vanishes in both, and that no one knows Tron's fate in ''2.0's'' continuity) |
| 245 | [[/folder]] |
| 246 |
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