Line #25 Headscratchers/Warhammer


1	* The official name of the empire is The Reikland why is it never called that?
2	** Reikland is a province in the Empire, not the Empire itself.
3	** The current Emperor is the Count of Reikland, and bears its Runefang, but that doesn't change the fact that Reikland is simply a province.
4	* If the High Elves are dying out due to low population, and they presumably don't want to, why don't they make a law that says every elf has to have, say, three to four children? This would cause a massive surge in the birthrate and the population in the long term.
5	** There are several Watsonian explanations. There are many nobles that would oppose such a suggestion and the Phoenix King can't decide over all the kingdoms in that way. In a novel, one of the elves in an elven embassy remarks disdainfully on the humans' tendency to have 'unguarded rutting' indicating that the High elves practice contraception, presumably on a large level which, given that the High Elves have a fertility and healing Goddess who is both very much real and very good at protecting them from venereal diseases (presumably) the Elves likely practice contraception for no better reason than convenience. It may not be contraception. Maybe they're just prudes. Anyway, yeah, other gods ''exist'', but they're not available on a hotline, so they can't be relied on all the time. So if they ''do'' use contraception, there's a logical reason for it. In addition it's likely that Isha supports the Wood Elves rather than the High Elves since her avatar Ariel lives with the Wood Elves.
6	*** It also assumes that Elves reproduce in a similar manner, and at a similar rate, as humans. They may be less fertile, gestation may be far longer, carrying children to term may be harder, giving birth may be more dangerous, etc. It would be in keeping with their supposed superiority if they looked on the brief lives and high birth rates of humans as comparable to how we look at rats or other pests, whose numbers can explode in a relatively short time.
7	** The Doylist explanation is that [[WordOfGod Games Workshop, through one of their writers, Gav Thorpe, has said that the elf Hat is "slow decline" and that otherwise there are as many elves as the writers want for the plot, so in one story the loss of a hundred is a tragedy but the next the death of thousands is brushed off]], despite the poor writing and inconsistencies it causes.
8	* Why doesn't the Empire try setting fire to the massive forests that the Beastmen dwell in? They currently act as a massive safe haven for a large unknown number of enemies. They are a consistent site of ambushes of Imperial troops and supplies. Also, Beastmen raid Imperial settlements and retreat back into there. Wouldn't a forest fire or twelve be a very good idea?
9	** There are several reasons for that;
10	*** A forest fire would more likely unite the beastmen against the empire. Currently they don't pose a huge threat anyways. If they got forced out of the place they usually lived in, they would likely fight to death against the Empire without no likelihood of retreating, becoming much of a threat than they ever were in the past and the Empire has to be careful picking what wars it's going to start given that a threat to it keeps coming up every few years.
11	*** Not just Beastmen live in the forest. There's also tribes of Orcs and Goblins, Wood Elf warbands and Necromancers/Vampires living the forests, who would gain cause to fight the Empire for the same reason as the Beastmen. There's also many monsters such as the house-sized Arachnarok spiders who would be displaced and pass through settlements.
12	*** Not to mention the massive environmental damage involved in burning several million square miles of woodland.
13	*** The forests take up a fairly major chunk of the Empire, and has plenty of Imperial citizens living within and immediately surrounding it. The fires could also rage out of control destroying many of the Empire's towns and cities along with their farmlands. That would also destroy the wood, which is a valuable commodity that the Empire trades with the Dwarves. It's also worth noting that one of the grand provinces Hochland is almost entirely covered with forests.
14	* Why has there been almost nothing written or any army lists of Estalia so far?
15	** Because they haven't come up with a suitable distinct theme. They don't just make up army lists for ''places'' -- they make up army lists for concepts. What would an Estalian army list be like? A synthesis of Bretonnia and the Empire, probably. So why bother?
16	** If Spanish history is anything to go by, there is a lot of stuff to use. Conquistadors, Roloderos and Swashbucklers. Plus later on Spain was known for guerrilla fighters, so an Estalia army could be about guerrilla skirmishers supporting a highly mobile mounted conquistador army. Hey, if Kislev got an army list Estalia should.
17	** For a classic spanish feel it would probably be a bit too similar to the Empire, but it could certainly be done, based on the pike-and-shot formula...
18	** There is one. It's called "Dogs of War", and while technically a mercenary force it represents generic humans from Estalia, Tilea, Border Princes...It's a couple of editions old, though.
19	** A couple of units couldn't hurt though, maybe a special character and/or a Regiment of Renown. A Spanish Inquisition-style witch hunter squad perhaps. [[Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus No-one would expect it...]]
20	*** Nah, the Empire has witchhunting down pat.
21	** [[HumansAreWhite Games Workshop]] has repeatedly demonstrated an [[UnfortunateImplications aversion to including non-white humans in their playable factions]].
22	*** Estalia, which is based on real life Spain, non-white?? I want to slap you either with a History book or a Geography book, whichever is thicker.
23	* How does Chaos create those huge armies of big burly bodybuilder men from the arctic, are they from the warp?
24	** They're members of the native tribes, empowered by Chaos. Remember that the Chaos Wastes cover a pretty big area, so you can have large population spread thinly. It's AllThereInTheManual.
25	** Most chaos warbands consist of marauders from Norsca or a few other barbarian peoples (there was a hun equivalent), with a chaos warrior at the top if they're lucky. Whole armies led by Exalted Champions are ''rare''. Remember that the armies played in the table are usually highly atypical - most Imperial army lists have a steam tank, but there are less than ten of them in existence in the world.
26	** The Chaos Wastes cover a ''vast'' area of land, most of it sub-arctic (the arctic areas are the Realm of Chaos). The Marauders represent a number of distinct peoples including the Norse, Kurgans, and Hung, who have sizeable populations - remember that the term "Chaos Wastes" is applied by the people of the Empire who have never been there. The Warriors of Chaos book goes into more detail.
27	** Chaos Warriors are made when a follower of the Chaos Gods dons Chaos Armour and gets a blessing from the Chaos Gods. The price is that they can no longer enjoy food, drink or the comfort of a loving family, and some are not prepared to make that sacrifice.
28	* Why the sudden trend towards great heroes as special characters... at Hero level? Korhil is "One of the mightiest living elves", and would get his arse handed to him by your standard High Elf army general. Likewise Kurt Helborg- the Emperor's Champion, yet weaker than the Grand Master of any of the Knightly Orders. I don't mind having hero-level [=SCs=], but couldn't they have someone relatively inexperienced but unique? Admittedly, they've done this right in the Chaos Warriors book with Festus and Wulfrik, but there's all these legends relegated to "Get-owned-by-all-Orc-Warbosses" status.
29	** Then again, special characters are supposed to be ''special''. Don't all special characters have something particular about them, anyway? It's less about the stats as they are, and more about the special abilities and the novelty of fielding "The Emperor's Champion", something that's important for story reasons if nothing else.
30	** I've seen Orc Warbosses and Wood Elf Lords killed in single rounds by normal unit champions. I'd say that a simple points comparison isn't really that meaningful for judging relative power.
31	** Have you seen the 7th ed. Skaven book? Tretch Craventail is the epitome of "special, not-stupidly-overpowered-in-either-gameplay-or-in-stories, character" that you are looking for. Then again, we are talking about the [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder Skaven...]]
32	* Obscurus. It's as if his very name is some sort of cruel joke. I can't find fluff on him anywhere, not even on the Lexicanum! Is there anybody here who knows anything about him? From what's listed on the characters page, he's certainly as worthy of my attention as Malal/Malice is.
33	** Salvaged info can be seen [[http://argiletum.wikidot.com/obscuras here]]
34	* How has Bretonia existed for so long despite the fact that the peasants always seem to be two missed meals away from bloody revolution?
35	** The Wood Elves make sure they only ever miss one meal at a time.
36	** Much like real-world middle ages, the peasants are too oppressed (help, help!) to revolt. They're too downtrodden, too disorganised, and also earnestly believe that their lords have a god-given right to rule over them. Then when they do revolt (as happens reasonably frequently in the fluff) [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome it ends up going the way you think it would]] [[CurbStompBattle when starving, mud-born, uneducated people with knowledge of farming and no available military equipment take on well-fed, experienced, well-equipped knights]].
37	** Bretonia is the middle ages flanderized, its a mixture between two older editions of bretonnia one where it was a corrupted nightmare state much worse then it is now and one where it was straight up Arthurian Magnificence. Its not a true reflection on the real life middle ages were peasents, while poor and sometimes oppressed, actually had more holidays a year and paid less tax in percentage as well as in absolute terms then a modern salaryman does and as a result, had a lot more individual freedom within their villages.
38	* How can the knights of Bretonnia claim to be chivalrous when they treat their peasants like dirt?
39	** Chivalry (at least what they call Chivalry) only applies to those of noble birth, not to peasants. Not an expert but fairly sure that's how it was in real life too - the image of the Autherian knight in shining armour being kind and good to all except truly evil folk is a relatively modern concept (created by the Victorians unless I'm mistaken).
40	** Because people are hypocritical jerks who arbitrarily write off whole classifications of people from their positive philosophies, even when those philosophies do not support such, ''especially'' in a CrapsackWorld like this setting. The modern idea of chivalry goes back to the 1200s, but lets be honest here, even though it officially applied to peasants as well as the nobility very few knights actually practiced what they preached.
41	* The Daemon Prince currently seems a lot weaker than it should be. I get that Chaos worshipers want daemonhood for the immortality, but this is supposed to be the peak of the power the Chaos gods give them, and yet a Chaos Lord is more powerful, and even has an overall better stateline if he gets two or more roles on the eye of the gods table.
42	** [[GenreBlind You're actually SURPRISED that]] the Gods of Chaos [[DealWithTheDevil screw over their worshipers?]]
43	** No, but from what I've read the daemon prince used to be a lot stronger, now the current rules look like the developers just feel like turning the thing into an overpriced punching bag. In some ways it makes sense as to why daemon princes cost a lot more here than in 40k, the chaos worshippers actually want it less there.
44	** Seriously? The model is just poorly balanced in comparison to the Chaos Lord. That's it. GameplayAndStorySegregation
45	* If the Wood Elves being behind the Lady of Lake is only a possibility that was proposed, why do so many fans take it as canon? In fact it looks more like it isn't canon given the fact that Wood Elves can't do the magic stuff we see Brettonian knights do and Prophetesses can use Lore of Heavens when Wood Elf mages can't.
46	** Because the idea is so bleak and cynical that it's tailor-made for a place that was the originator of GrimDark until 40k came along. Plus, it meshes well with the common fantasy theme of Elves manipulating or otherwise being the ManBehindTheMan to humans.
47	** It has been confirmed that the Lady of the Lake is a Wood Elf goddess who manipulated the humans into helping the Wood Elves.
48	* So, does GW say if any of the campaign events like Storm of Chaos or Nemesis Crown happened or not? The lore that's made after them seems to ignore that they even exist, so would that mean Archon is just sitting all day doing anything?
49	** The last few army books moved the timeline back to before Storm of Chaos, but Nemesis Crown is CanonDiscontinuity.
50	** Now The End Times series been published its safe to say SoC and NC are both now non-canon with ET replacing them (although I believe there are a few novels that were published years ago set after SoC that specifically reference it, so it's plausable that canonically SoC exists in an alternate timeline).
51	* So the Nemesis Crown was supposed to give knowledge of all past users to a wearer but also drive them insane. That hardly sounds like an ArtifactOfDoom given that if sounds like if any Orc or Chaos Warrior got his hands on it, he'd be too insane to lead an army, or did I misinterpret what the crown does?
52	** No. You're just misinterpreting the people who want to get it. Chaos Warriors are already insane, so it would have no adverse effect on them. And the Orcs just want the crown because it would pretty much be bait for everyone to come over and fight them.
53	** So would the Chaos Warriors getting it actually be TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt? Them getting knowledge of the previous wearers doesn't sound that dangerous since not many beings even wore it, so unless they got Alaric's run smith skills it doesn't sound like them getting it would be that dangerous.
54	** No, the End Times will only come when the Dark Gods will it and the Everchosen (Archaon, for now) gets the Northmen's shit together. Getting the crown helps speed it along, since the guys who did wear the Crown are implied to be pretty badassed.
55	** So does that mean that Chaos Warriors keep failing to destroy the empire or uniting a big enough army is because the Chaos Gods are sabotaging them (I heard that as an argument as to why the Chaos Space Marines keep losing, and it could apply to both)?
56	** They do only as the Gods see fit. And the Gods desire eternal suffering for all. While you're here, do contribute to this page. Lord knows I need help at it.
57	** With the End Times supplement, the Chaos Gods and all the other evil factions are finally making their bid to claim the world.
58	* I wonder why no one posits that the reason why Chaos keeps failing is not because the Chaos gods will it and much more likely the NUMEROUS gods the other mortals worship take it upon themselves to put aside their own petty differences for the sake of screwing over Tzeentch and his brothers. Yes yes from 40k's perspective the Chaos gods pretty much determine everything but in Fantasy their power and influence is SEVERELY reduced by comparison. It is not inconceivable that the Trickster god of the Empire on his own could trick Tzzentch once or twice, he actually seems to be the only god tailor made for fouling up another's plans. Just as planned. Or not as the case may be. And the only real word we have that Chaos will carry the day at the end of it all is... the word of Chaos worshipers themselves.
59	** Not really. Word of God says that the Chaos Gods are the most powerful divinities in canon. And there's nothing saying that their power is reduced in Fantasy. If anything, it's likely more potent. Oh yes, and a throw away reference by a Daemon Prince of Khorne and Nagash states there are multiple worlds that the Chaos Gods have consumed in Fantasy. In fact, there's a decent amount of evidence to claim that every god worshiped by the Empire is but a reflection of the Chaos Gods. Particularly the Khorne[=/=]Khaine debate. Also, every inch of the background fluff states that Chaos has already won in the long term. So there's that to consider.
60	** Chaos is slowly gaining ground, but the outcome is uncertain. If the Lizardmen and Elves ever got their shit together they could probably force them back; as it is the defenses that keep the world too magic-poor to support daemons are weakening from neglect. Chaos was actually pretty weak between the time the first incursion was pushed back and the collapse of the Elven and Dwarven empires. A major theme of the setting is that whenever the Old World is at the edge of final defeat a champion of good appears and rallies all of the other heroes and nations in the last defense.
61	** Chaos was weak in its first incursion? It took the combined might of ALL the Elder Races to force them back and an Elven King selling his soul to his people's god of carnage to gain the power to stand against them; and even then it was just barely that they were defeated. You also forget that the Gods focus a mere fraction of their attention on the Warhammer world and the majority is placed on the Great Game within the realm of Chaos. The God's desire to conquer the Warhammer World is ''part'' of the great game. The idea of the Everchosen having an equal opposite is by no means the point of Warhammer or a central theme of it. Especially considering that the 7th edition Chaos codex retcons the death of Asavar Kul from falling to Magnus to instead being murdered by one of his lieutenants. And lets not forget Valten being crushed by Archaon. Also remember that Chaos has almost annihilated the world on several occasions; one of which being detailed in ''Empire'' by Graham McNeill; the Norse nearly eradicated the Empire and would have if their Chaos Sorcerer hadn't misinterpreted his vision; a thing which likely the gods intended, because in the next book Morkar begins to rise up from the Norse. Seriously, the background minces no words when it says Chaos is just playing with the world.
62	*** He didnt say the first incursion was weak, he said that following the Elves creating their vortex Chaos was weakened, with any attempted incursion before the fall of the Dwarfs and Elven Empires being weak. Which they were, following the creation of the vortex Chaos Daemons lost a lot of the magic that sustained them in the world and Chaos did not yet have the Hordes of the North they do now. The Elves and Dwarfs at the height of their power could have stopped them, but following the war of the beard, the destruction of the Dwarfs holds and the rise of Men? Not so much. They now have a huge force of worshippers who don't need any magic to support them, who are in fact feeding the Gods directly with every battle, enough magic has made its way into the world to give rise to the Beastmen and the Elves who stopped them the first time can't really repeat that trick.
63	* Is Aelfric Cyrnwulf Norse or Kurgan? With a name like that I thought he would be Norse, but does anyone know?
64	** Kurgan.
65	** Considering though that Aelfric is an Anglo-Saxon name, he ''should'' very well be a Norscan.
66	* So why does ''Chaos'' want to destroy the world? For that matter, why do the chaos gods show such obvious, long term favoritism? It would seem more chaotic to keep the world preserved but not let any single force get too much of an advantage to keep change on it less predictable, more chaotic. In fact, no form of "worship" the receive, be it make sure someone is always bleeding, be as hedonistic as possible, spread lots of pathogens or mutate constantly are conductive to destroying the world. Miserable existences but theoretically sustainable ones.
67	** Chaos Gods are conceptions created and made real by the psyche of living. Khorne is honor. Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is acceptance. Slaanesh is love. These are their basest forms. When they destroyed the world, they returned back to their base forms, and purged themselves of their own corruption. Homever, they couldn't exist without life itself, so they kept some of the living alive. Then, life started to multiply once more in the realms and their rampant emotions in the end caused the gods to turn back to their malicious selves, driving them to destroy the living. This troper believes that they destroyed the world once, and Old Ones were the survivors of that world. Then they decided to try to neutralize Chaos, while creating new races to fix the damn world. They failed. Then the Warhammer world happened. Same shit. Suddenly Age of Sigmar, with new gods, former mortals who were the survivors of the World-That-Was roaming around with the power to rival the Old Ones, who try to neutralize Chaos. Sounds familliar? Good, this means you were paying attention, and it also means you can guess what is going to happen. And it is going to happen. Forever.
68	*** Perhaps Nagash or Archaon can become the Incarnation of Chaos Undivided and save existence from this vicious cycle, but ı am not betting on it.
69	* Is it ever explained how the orcs reproduce? I mean we know how the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 orks]] make more of themselves (spores) but we never hear of greenskin females and these orcs don't seem like the rapey type. On a similar subject does anyone mention ogre women because we hear about ogre children on several occasions?
70	* Did the Chaos gods always feed on emotion in Fantasy, or is that bleed over from 40k? I can remember there being some stuff about them being primordial and such, but I don't have access to the older editions now and it's been a while.
71	* When Malekith entered the Flame of Asuryan, only two people had ever done so before: his father Aenarion, who had been badly burned and practically killed by the experience before Asuryan blessed him, restoring him to full health and then some; and Bel-Shanaar, who was magically protected from the more destructive aspects of the Flame of Asuryan. How couldn't he have known that if the manner of his entry into the Flame of Asuryan more closely resembled that of Aenarion than of Bel-Shanaar, he would be as badly burned as Aenarion had been?

Context Headscratchers / Warhammer