| 1 | New entries on the bottom. '''Spoilers''', naturally. [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff Unmarked ones, to be precise.]] |
| 2 | |
| 3 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 4 | |
| 5 | [[folder:UG Objects]] |
| 6 | |
| 7 | * What happens to objects in the RG when they get manipulated in the UG? Surely they're not just sending cars flying everywhere or some [=NPCs=] would have mentioned it... |
| 8 | ** One of the secret reports explains this. When Players fight the Noise, they're transported to the Noise dimension, which is close to the UG and RG, but is not the same. The objects in the Noise dimension ''just aren't there in the RG''. |
| 9 | |
| 10 | [[/folder]] |
| 11 | |
| 12 | [[folder:Costly Pins]] |
| 13 | |
| 14 | * I understand the idea of buying clothes and that certain brands and types of clothing cost different amounts, and so on. But, speaking just in RPG terms, why do pins cost so much? Wouldn't a pin just be like 160 Yen or something? I know they have to be expensive for gameplay purposes, but in-universe, that just doesn't make sense. |
| 15 | ** Shibuya is a major fashion center, so prices are already probably high (think of how things in New York cost more than in a smaller town). In addition, these are pins made by fashion companies that are seriously "in" at the time. So they can probably get away with high prices. |
| 16 | * Accounting for both this and Tin Pin Slammer mechanics - they could be Amiibo prototypes (the game was developed for Nintendo, after all) with built-in chips for a digital competition game, and so not only fashion items, but game pieces of various rarity. |
| 17 | |
| 18 | [[/folder]] |
| 19 | |
| 20 | [[folder:Pun]] |
| 21 | |
| 22 | * Shiki's name might be a StealthPun: "Chic"-i. Do you think this was intentional, or [[AccidentalPun just a coincidence?]] |
| 23 | ** It's a common Japanese name. |
| 24 | |
| 25 | [[/folder]] |
| 26 | |
| 27 | [[folder:Shiki's Voice]] |
| 28 | |
| 29 | * Discussion: Shiki Misaki's Voice, Anna Hachimine and Heather Hogan, Is it her Voice or Eri's Voice? |
| 30 | ** Interesting... so basically, the question is, did just take Eri's ''appearance'', or her ''whole body'', respiritory system and vocal cords and all? [[MST3KMantra This is probably a lot deeper than most of the developers were thinking]], [[MoffsLaw but it's still interesting to think about.]] |
| 31 | *** The Anime gives Eri a different voice actress so it’s only Shikis appearance that’s changed. |
| 32 | |
| 33 | [[/folder]] |
| 34 | |
| 35 | [[folder:Phones]] |
| 36 | |
| 37 | * What the hell happens if you don't have a phone? Not eligible? Do they send a carrier pigeon? What? |
| 38 | ** I like to think they give you a free phone when you die, along with you Player Pin, if you don't already have one. |
| 39 | ** It's ''Shibuya''. No one over the age of 8 would be caught dead (no pun intended) without their cell phone. |
| 40 | ** And I'm willing to bet [[HideYourChildren nobody under the age of 8 would be allowed to play]]. Orphans have to come from somewhere, after all. |
| 41 | |
| 42 | [[/folder]] |
| 43 | |
| 44 | [[folder:Coming back]] |
| 45 | |
| 46 | * Why don't any of the kids' parents or friends notice them spontaneously coming back from the dead? |
| 47 | ** Maybe the body of someone in the Game is in the hospital, unconscious, in critical condition for the duration of their Game? If they win, they have a miraculous recovery; if they lose, the doctors give the "we've done all we can, but I'm afraid we've lost them" speech. |
| 48 | ** This is disproved by Eri in Day 6 when she was talking about Shiki's death. |
| 49 | ** The Secret Reports imply that Shibuya was reset to an 'ideal alternate universe' after the Game ended, so the surviving Players were probably returned to a world where they never died. |
| 50 | ** Also, the Reports state that winners choosing to reincarnate instead of becoming reapers or angels was uncommon, and only the strongest ones get to choose. Those with normal or lower levels of imagination face erasure even after winning the game. |
| 51 | |
| 52 | [[/folder]] |
| 53 | |
| 54 | [[folder:Effects of resurrection]] |
| 55 | |
| 56 | * Let's say that a person named X dies and his death directly causes someone else's death. For example, that the X death's driven someone to commit suicide, or better yet, that X was piloting a passenger plane when he had a heart attack and caused the plane to crash. If he wins the game and chooses to be resurrected, and if choosing to be resurrected means to not have died at all, so all the others will be resurrected too? But then, their souls were lost in the game, and they were not fixed in a pin or something, not to say that losing the game means that they were not worth of being resurrected... So they will be people without Imagination? This seems quite troubling since the game isn't held each week, and the consequences can pile up. Imagine that one suicide leads to another weeks later, for example. In fact, it can become a huge problem for the Composer. |
| 57 | ** There's evidence in the game that points to the Composer being able to pretty much rewrite reality as is needed in order to satisfy a player's victory in the game. Going by that, reality would probably just be changed such that X never died, but the people who died because of X's death died for a reason unrelated to X. I suppose they (those who died because of X) would all just have to play the Game as well, and if they got out, reality would have to be revised even MORE, but that's all technicality, really. After all, Neku's and Shiki's deaths weren't their fault in any way, but they still had to play the Game. |
| 58 | |
| 59 | [[/folder]] |
| 60 | |
| 61 | [[folder:Noticing Players disappearing]] |
| 62 | |
| 63 | * Why doesn't anyone notice Players appear and disappear when they enter and exit shops? |
| 64 | ** Shooter seemed to notice...sort of. He just acts like you might've ran off really quick though--one assumes that you'd actually ''disappear'' once you crossed the threshold...as in "he's opening the door wait how come he's not on the other side of the glass now?" |
| 65 | ** Some people's minds imply they are at least ''partially'' aware of weird happenings, possibly due to PsychicPowers. One woman calls Noise "weebers" that attach to people, and another wonders if he saw black wings on someone. Another mentions seeing people just disappear, particularly - you guessed it - in Udagawa. It's likely humanity is [[WeirdnessCensor programmed not to notice, or if they do, not comment on it]]. |
| 66 | ** It's Japan, which is kind of notorious for staring at, but saying nothing, if something weird happens. |
| 67 | ** It's also Shibuya, which is insanely crowded. Look at all those people running around the streets. |
| 68 | ** There's also that one thought where it's pretty much "what the hell are you doing? Did anyone say you could read my mind?" |
| 69 | ** Another random NPC is a fan of 777 (a Reaper who plays in a band in the RG). She tried to follow him home to see where he lived, but got confused when he appeared to vanish into thin air. |
| 70 | ** It's a minor plot point in the sequel. It's indeed too crowded to notice unless you're deliberately tracking a Player, and even then most people just brush it off, which [[spoiler: allows some Players to shoplift, although in this case the vendor actually notices the weirdness, because he needs to pay attention]]. |
| 71 | [[/folder]] |
| 72 | |
| 73 | [[folder:Shiki's training]] |
| 74 | |
| 75 | * As mentioned above, some of the [=NPCs=] are latent psychics. However, they don't seem to notice what they can do, chalking it up to paranoia or caffeine. If that's so, and you only learn the truth about PsychicPowers when you enter the Game, how did Shiki go through what sounded like frustratingly thorough telekinesis training with various household objects before settling on her plushie as a weapon in the same short amount of time that it took for Neku to pick up his Player Pin, read the [=NPCs=]' thoughts, and run half a block? |
| 76 | ** Well, ultimately, The Angels ''want'' Players to have an equal chance of beating the Reapers, as this will weed out both sides of those who don't have "Imagination." I imagine Mr. Hanekoma somehow got the message out to Shiki and others who found out the rules of the Game before actually playing. The problem is ''this'' current Game has a lot of cheaters, so it's really not typical. |
| 77 | ** Actually, I believe Shiki said that Mr. Mew was the only thing that would work with her psychic powers. Neku questions if it's Shiki doing the work or Mr. Mew. |
| 78 | ** Exactly. She tried more conventional household weapons first. |
| 79 | ** Apparently Shiki is a variation of Necromancer called Psychomancer, but instead of bringing the dead to life they bring inanimate objects to life (though the reason she can only use Mr.Mew is probably because a) he's an important figure in her life and/or b) she may only be able to use it on humanoid objects). |
| 80 | ** Shiki says Mr. Mew "just sort of does his own thing," so she may not even be controlling him. |
| 81 | ** I don't think everyone started the Game at the same time. Or maybe Neku was unconscious for an hour or two when the Game started... Or Shiki was in a previous game... Or- I hereby direct you to [[WMG/TheWorldEndsWithYou Wild Mass Guessing]]. |
| 82 | ** I always assumed that every Player is given a full explanation of the Game... and then the entry fees are collected. Neku's fee being his memory is rather convenient as an exposition device, no? |
| 83 | ** Beat and Rhyme had no idea why they didn't die when they failed to make it to 104 on the first day. |
| 84 | ** Perhaps they simply didn't ''remember'' that one little rule. |
| 85 | ** Beat sneezed when they explained that bit. |
| 86 | ** Or they weren't given the full details. "Complete the missions and live. Fail, and die. Bad guys are Reapers, you need a pact with a partner to fight the Noise, etc." |
| 87 | |
| 88 | [[/folder]] |
| 89 | |
| 90 | [[folder:Ending]] |
| 91 | |
| 92 | * What the hell is up with the ending? I've read through most of the secret reports (and I know how Joshua made it back), maybe the one for Beat, Day 7 has something in it, but there are a couple of things that bug me. First off, why did the Composer decide to not destroy Shibuya? Did Neku refusing to kill him show him the good side of humanity or blah blah blah? And did Neku end up in one last game? Because that's the only explanation I can come up with for why it took them a whole week to meet up, especially considering the big deal they made out of Shiki and Neku planning to meet at Hachiko first thing. |
| 93 | ** Okay, this is all speculation on my part, but this is the interpretation I have: Joshua decided not to destroy Shibuya because Neku showed him a different way of looking at people, that there was something worth saving. It wasn't just Neku refusing to shoot - it was everything they'd gone through, the talks about humanity they'd had, the way they'd both grown. Neku's speech at the end to Joshua should show how much Joshua meant to him by that point, and even if Joshua would never admit it, I think the feeling is mutual. I mean, not only did Joshua not destroy Shibuya, but he fixes it so well that the angels consider it an ideal game. That really says something about how much he changed. I don't think Neku ended up in one last game, but rather that it might have taken everyone a week to get reoriented in the RG, get everything straight in their heads, and actually all manage to meet up. I assume they called/texted each other in the meantime and met up at the first reasonable opportunity. The one thing I'm not sure on is Neku's last entrance fee - I have a couple theories as to what Joshua took from him for the gun duel (if anything at all; Joshua's not known for his straightforward, honest nature), but nothing supported by canon outside of seeming in character for Joshua. |
| 94 | ** I assumed that Neku did go through one last game, but only because of his massive [[BigNo "What... the HELL?!"]]. |
| 95 | ** There's also the part where he says they're all meeting for "the first time in a week," although it would be three and a half weeks since he saw Rhyme in human form. |
| 96 | ** I'm pretty sure the game "One last game" Neku was nonstandard and had a different length from normal (rather like Kitaniji's), with the length being that of the gun duel. Neku's last entrance fee was probably something like the possibility of failure (Which qualifies for being a fee be virtue of being the most important thing on his mind at the moment, if only in a negative way). After all, whether he shot or not, Shibuya wasn't going to get erased. Joshua just stages the entire thing because he enjoys screwing with Neku. |
| 97 | ** Bear in mind that I'm still working my way through the secret reports, but from what I've been told the Composer chose Neku for two reasons: his high level of Imagination, and the fact that if the worst, most withdrawn person in Shibuya could change, then maybe the rest of Shibuya could change as well. (The Composer's problem with Shibuya was that people were isolating themselves from one another; Kitaniji attempted to fix this by having everyone share the same thought.) Neku went from being perfectly willing to kill another person if it would benefit him (Shiki, Day 2) to being unable to kill the Composer- the man who murdered him- even if it would save his own life ''and'' give him unparalleled power over Shibuya. To answer your last question: in the final scene, Neku wakes up in Realground Shibuya. And meets his friends seven days later, probably not for the first time since they returned to the Realground. It's as simple as that. |
| 98 | ** Except the end monolouge explicitly states that it's the first time {"I have friends now, and we're meeting up for the first time in a week!"). Actually, now that I think on it, maybe they met up that first day and then again a week later. Which would make more sense. |
| 99 | ** But what would be the point of sending Neku through the Game a ''fourth'' time? Joshua'd already gotten the outcome he wanted, what more could be done? I believe they either met up at the beginning of the week and then again a week later, or they just took a week to get used to being alive again. What is there other then the 'What the HELL?' to suggest he went through it again? Like I said, there would be no point. |
| 100 | ** In the final showdown between Neku and Joshua and the duel was actually a test of trust, as Joshua reminds Neku to consider what Mr. Hanekoma told him - to trust one's partner. Neku says afterward that may not be able to forgive Joshua, but he does trust him. If he had pulled the trigger, killing Joshua, he would have probably been Shibuya's doom as its Composer. Instead he let Joshua win, and Joshua repaid his trust. |
| 101 | ** I was under the impression that when Neku woke up and saw that everything was normal, he realized that Joshua had never intended to erase Shibuya thus making the gun duel one last MindScrew[=/=]{{Jerkass}} action on his part, hence the "What the HELL?!!" |
| 102 | ** Well, I wouldn't put it past him. But he still invites [even if only in his mind] him to meet with them a Hachiko. |
| 103 | ** Looking at the crowd's feet, they seem to be standing around him, so I assume they can see him and he's therefore no longer in the game. |
| 104 | ** The ''What the HELL!?'' was because Neku THOUGHT he had to go another round in the game (he woke up in the scramble where he woke up for the past three rounds) however he was alive and the people in the Scramble Crossing congregate to him because...well, screaming kid in the street? |
| 105 | ** It makes more sense to think of it as Joshua twisting Neku to the point at which he'd no longer wish to live, then forcing him to live, anyways. |
| 106 | |
| 107 | [[/folder]] |
| 108 | |
| 109 | [[folder:The Stinger emotions]] |
| 110 | |
| 111 | * On the topic of the ending, during the TheStinger, why is Joshua sad and/or angry while he's watching Neku and the gang at Hachiko? |
| 112 | ** The Japanese version of the scene may provide the answer to that: the word Hanekoma uses for "down" is "samishisou." He says that Josh appears to be ''lonely''. Seems to me that he wants to join Neku & crew. |
| 113 | ** What about Hanekoma's line "* sigh* Some folks just don't take no for an answer"? Is he merely muttering that Joshua can't outright admit that he was going to literally kill everyone and is feeling regretful? |
| 114 | ** I got the impression that the line "Hey, it's their world; they get to decide what to do with it. We just--" was supposed to be some sort of subtle admonition, either against general interference with the RG or against joining everyone, as above, which Joshua decides to ignore, somewhat less subtlely. Hanekoma's final line acknowledges this outright disobedience, but he doesn't seem too bothered by it. |
| 115 | ** I would agree. "We just observe" is probably his words, and Joshua cuts him off not wishing to listen to just that. Though the first part really sounds relative to jacking Shibuya. Maybe he would want them stay in UG and without Shibuya, and if not - at least join the fun. |
| 116 | |
| 117 | [[/folder]] |
| 118 | |
| 119 | [[folder:Food and fashion]] |
| 120 | |
| 121 | * Anyone else think it's funny how binging on donuts, muffins, crepes, pancakes and ice cream is the best way to fit into that corseted ElegantGothicLolita dress? |
| 122 | ** Well, you ''do'' have to work off everything you eat in order to get the stat points... |
| 123 | ** Eating isn't the way to ''fit'' into that dress, just to work up the balls (er... you know what I meant) to wear it in public. The actual stat, remember, is Brave/Yuuki. Size has nothing to do with it. Also, just ''imagine'' what kind of metabolism Neku, Shiki and Joshua must have, especially as constant, intense Espers. |
| 124 | ** ...I think he got that. Hence the joke. |
| 125 | ** Hey, it works for [[Anime/PantyAndStockingWithGarterbelt Stocking...]] |
| 126 | ** And what about the ''Potted Plant?'' anyone? No? |
| 127 | ** The Potted Plant is intended to be worn as a hat, duh! |
| 128 | * So, there are two bikini threads in the game. Both of them are accessories, which implies that Shiki wears them as simple undergarments, which would make sense in itself since no one goes swimming in this game. On the other hand, why would the creators bother providing something like that as a fashion item if you're not gonna actually showcase it? |
| 129 | |
| 130 | [[/folder]] |
| 131 | |
| 132 | [[folder:Not playing]] |
| 133 | |
| 134 | * Isn't it odd that the Secret Reports go into such great detail about what happens to people who win or lose the Reaper's Game, and yet doesn't say a single word comparing it to the fates of those who don't play? Perhaps the drama would be weakened if we considered that all but one of the Players brought their fates on themselves. |
| 135 | ** Doesn't everyone go through the game? |
| 136 | ** Only really powerful (or really stubborn) souls go through the game, which I suppose don't come up too often. If everyone went through the game, then there would be one every week, and Kariya and Uzuki imply that even running two weeks in a row is incredibly rare. |
| 137 | ** The way I remember the dialogue, they implied that THEM having to work two weeks in a row is rare-- presumably they rotate who has Reaper duty. |
| 138 | ** He mentions not having been active for a month near the beginning of the game. |
| 139 | ** "It is infeasible for the Composer to judge all of humanity by himself, so a filtering system utilizing the Reapers was created (...)" seems to imply that everyone goes through the game and only the most talented ones get to be judged by the composer. However, at the same time, the thought of having old people and childs/babies also playing is absurd. Most likely, out of all the deaths happening in Shibuya in one week, only teens/young adults with a minimum level of imagination get to play. If the number of fit people isn't enough, there's no game on that week (if those who don't get to play are queued for the next game or lose their chance, is not explained). |
| 140 | |
| 141 | [[/folder]] |
| 142 | |
| 143 | [[folder:Entry fee]] |
| 144 | |
| 145 | * Is the whole entry fee deal really worth it? You get it back if you win. You lose considerably more than the fee if you lose. It's non-negotiable. Two of Neku's fees made it nearly impossible for him to ''play'' the game, let alone ''win''. And while the secret reports suggest that they are a deliberate attempt to enrich the players' lives by forcing them to face life without that which was most important to them, does this really matter to the Reapers when they pride themselves on a near-100% Player elimination rate? (Indeed, the only people to win the game at any point in the story are those who were directly aided by the Composer or Producer. Even ''before'' people started cheating.) |
| 146 | ** The very reason that the Reapers ''want'' a high elimination rate is so that they can weed out all but the best and strongest souls. And the last bit may be because all three Games were rigged from the start for a specific purpose; a normal one might not warrant outside help at all, although it would still be tough to survive. |
| 147 | ** Higashizawa's actions go against this theory. Not only is he directly established to be going for 100% player elimination, with a conditional reward if he accomplishes it, but he specifically visits one of the Players for the sole purpose of ''relishing her entry fee-related character flaw'', and is visibly pissed off when she overcomes it. And he was the only GM to ''not'' have an ulterior agenda, which suggests that he's the closest thing the game has to a typical unbiased GM. |
| 148 | ** MotiveDecay and all that; it's probably happened to everyone. Hard to avoid in a profession like that. |
| 149 | ** It was my impression in Neku's case, Megumi deliberately rigs what he took from him. He had to take Shiki as Neku's second entry fee because he had to conceal the Composer's absence from the game, since the Composer is the only one able to resurrect people. By the third week, Megumi has figured out that Neku is the Composer's proxy and so takes everyone else as Neku's entrance fee so he can defeat the Composer easily. |
| 150 | ** I always assumed that the entry fee was a test: to prove you can live (so to speak) through the Game without the thing you care for the most then you are worthy of, and be brought back to life. "Is it worth it?" might not be the best question, rather "Is it fair?" If you refuse to pay it, you cannot play the Game and so you die. It's obviously not fair on the initial outlook, but the point to the Game is to try and give another chance to life to those who deserve it, if anyone was let in without weeding out the strong minded, the Composer would probably have a load of executed murduers to deal with post-Game. (Okay bad example.) |
| 151 | ** Hanekoma indicates that living without her entry fee is a test Rhyme will have to overcome, but could potentially fill the void somehow. |
| 152 | ** Leading on, do Reapers have entry fees? As an ex-player Beat may have retained his entry fee, but this may not be a good example because with Rhyme being dead, it's impossible to tell if his fee was returned, or even taken away again in Week 3. |
| 153 | ** I recall reading in- game that Beat's first-week fee, Rhyme's memories of him, were lost forever when he wasn't able to successfully complete the final mission of the week (even though he should have been counted as victorious, due to the "all Players share victory or defeat" clause). In the third week, his entry fee was The pin containing Rhyme's soul in Noise form, definitely different from his first fee. Of course, his third-week fee was only taken once he gave up his Reaper status to be Neku's partner, so it doesn't really answer the question... |
| 154 | ** Didn't he get that entry fee back? I thought the entry fee that everyone said was lost was Rhyme's aspirations for the future, as she didn't win that week. |
| 155 | ** Beat got his entry fee back - Rhyme's memories - but Rhyme lost hers since she, technically lost. Beat "won" the last week. |
| 156 | ** Secret Report 17 states that the Composer thought up the idea of entry fees to make the players reexamine how crucial those things are so that hopefully, by the end of the Game, Players will be able to take that knowledge and go on with a fresh outlook on life. The entry fees we know of were the memories that turned Neku into a misanthropist, leading him to realise that you need to open up to people, Shiki's real looks, so that she realised that she didn't have to be jealous of Eri because she was a good person on her own, Shiki herself, who was the first person in a long time Neku cared about, Rhyme's memories of Beat, making him realise that he depended on her too much, since he breaks down when she's gone and all the other players in the game, helping Neku figure out that by this point, he officially can't just close himself off to the world. I'd say tht sounds about right with what the Secret Report says, even if some creative thought was applied with the people as entry fees by Kitaniji. |
| 157 | |
| 158 | [[/folder]] |
| 159 | |
| 160 | [[folder:The Composer at the end]] |
| 161 | |
| 162 | * Imagine you're the Composer at the end of the game. The Conductor is dead, as are his three highest ranking subordinates. Due to the Taboo Noise, not to mention the renegade Reaper incident and the Red Skull Pins, most of the Reapers have been picked off. Every Player who has survived the past three weeks has been reincarnated in the RG, with no new Reaper recruits. Of the two most promising surviving Reapers, one refuses a promotion and he seems to be convincing the other of the same thing. Kinda makes you wonder how you and the UG are going to handle next week, huh? |
| 163 | ** Sho wasn't erased, his body didn't fade away. |
| 164 | ** Josh may be impulsive, but even ''he'' doesn't seem the type who, when dealing with a group of scheming Reapers, solely spares the one who ''tried to kill him''. Especially after he specifically intervened and killed him ''himself''. My suspicion is that Sho wasn't erased simply because, if he was, no one would have noticed that he was killed at all, ruining the entire BaitAndSwitchBoss setup. RuleOfVisible and all that. (And just to add to the PlotHole, ever notice that you can steal his hat from his body when he never wore it during the entire third week?) |
| 165 | ** Josh is amused by Sho's efforts to take the rank of Composer, while being very certain that Sho is unable to kill him. I mean, Sho gets a gigantic power-up, becoming part Taboo Noise, and Josh apparently kicked the shit out of him. He doesn't have much to worry about. In fact, this is probably at least Sho's fifth or sixth attempt to steal the title of Composer, which would make a pretty funny revelation in the (hopeful) sequel. |
| 166 | ** Since there's a drastically smaller Reaper count this time around, one could presume that there would be more winners for the next Game. Just convince a lot of them to join up and start handing out promotions like candy. |
| 167 | ** Especially since it's explicitly stated that not all winners get resurrected. Joshua gets to decide who comes back to life after each game, so he'll probably just be stingy with the resurrections to encourage winners to start signing up for Reaper duty. Plus, he may decide to promote Yashiru and Kariya whether they like it or not; I doubt they would turn it down if he said 'We need officers. You two either step up or I clip your wings.' |
| 168 | ** Plus there's the fact that, you know, he could always revive them if really needed. |
| 169 | ** That's true, and might justify a great deal of the plot. As proven after the first week, winning the game doesn't guarantee your return. As proven by Rhyme, losing the game doesn't guarantee your demise. As proven by the ending sequence, the Composer basically dictates who lives and who dies... including people who are still living. So maybe the whole plot's a gregarious version of the StockAesop "it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game". |
| 170 | ** I got the impression from some of his comments that Josh feels the same about Sho as we do, i.e. he's crazy awesome and highly amusing despite his constant attempts to kill us. Also note that Joshua doesn't actually erase a single person during the game, Megumi was erased when the time limit on his mission ran out. |
| 171 | |
| 172 | [[/folder]] |
| 173 | |
| 174 | [[folder:Rhyme in the end]] |
| 175 | |
| 176 | * There's something to be said for a happy ending, and it can't be said that emotional appeal wasn't involved, but Rhyme's fate doesn't seem right on some level. Her death was legitimate, and so was her erasure, even if both were tragic and selfless. She certainly didn't win a Game. The possibility of her revival wouldn't have even come up if Beat hadn't tried to cheat the system. Or does it count as getting his entry fee back after defeating Konishi, even if the game is likely null and void? |
| 177 | ** Josh and Mr H have no reason to be stingy, or obey the rules of the game. Beat, Neku and Shiki would be upset if Rhyme wasn't returned and technically she wasn't erased (Because Mr H cheated the system by turning her into a pin), so you could argue that she won the game along with the other three. |
| 178 | ** Adding on to this, I think Joshua did it for the same reason he brought back everyone else - he'd been affected by Neku. He had no obligation to bring back any of them, but he did, so why not bring back all of them to make Neku's group complete? In fact, I'm pretty sure him bringing back Players that hadn't earned it is what he's facing the repercussions Hanekoma mentions from the higher ups for. Joshua went beyond what he should have done, for Neku's sake. Of course, my bias may be showing. |
| 179 | ** Rhyme: Partners with her brother (even if she doesn't realize it). She is erased in ''one hit'' by a legitimate Noise attack. He is saved by seemingly motiveless intervention from Mr. H. He wins on the sideline as a result, and this gives him the opportunity to become a Reaper, bring her back illegitimately, betray them, etc. In the end, she lives. Sota: Partners with his girlfriend. Taboo Noise (an illegal creation) starts attacking everyone. After more than five days of this, she is eventually overwhelmed and is erased. No one intervenes to save him, despite the rulebreaking that led to her erasure. He dies. Both befriended Neku. Both won at least one mission for him. Can you honestly say that Rhyme deserved to be brought back and Sota didn't? And even if this is Joshua's doing, isn't it odd that he ''never'' met Rhyme, yet had several conversations with Sota? |
| 180 | ** We didn't get to see everyone in Shibuya at the end. Neku talked to Sota and Nao, and probably liked them at least a little, but they weren't really friends and they probably wouldn't purposefully try to find each other once reincarnated. There's no indication that Sota and/or Nao ''didn't'' come back to life, just that Neku didn't see them post-game. I like to think they got to come back, especially since Shibuya itself, not just Neku and friends, was implied to be fixed. (I also like to think 777 didn't stay erased-- his death didn't sit right with me either.) |
| 181 | ** Since Sota and Nao were erased by Taboo Noise would their entry fees have been refundable? |
| 182 | ** There presumably wasn't anyone around to get to Sota after Nao was erased. It just happened to be a stroke of luck that Hanekoma was present when Rhyme was erased. |
| 183 | ** As we all know, Joshua was with Neku when they saw Sota and Nao getting erased. He took the brunt of Neku's anger and sorrow of not being able to help who he considered to be worth helping. Since he's seen Neku's reaction, and since he's also seen Neku's change by the end of the Game, don't you think he would have revived those two, just for the heck of it? I mean, why not, right? |
| 184 | ** If Beat wins, his entry fee is returned. If I recall correctly, his entry fee was his sister's love for him, or their relationship, or something along those lines. That can't be restored if she's erased, and Beat gets to have his entry fee back. Also, maybe she's alive, but she doesn't have the most important thing to her anymore- which is implied to be her dreams. It's better than nonexistance, but it's not a perfect end. |
| 185 | ** What they meant was his entry fee for week 3, i.e. Rhyme's noise pin. |
| 186 | ** Tying this into the questions above about whether or not Neku had to go through a fourth game week post-game, I've always liked the believe that if he ''did'' play one last time that Joshua raised Rhyme back up from Noise to Player to be his partner, and she won her way back to life then. It might even be the entire reason that he got put through it one last time, if that's what happened, as Joshua doing one last nice thing buried under his usual jackassery; with how early she was erased Rhyme probably ''couldn't'' be outright resurrected without going through another Game (in the seventh Secret Report it's mentioned that even Players who make it all the way through their Game end up being broken down into Soul anyway if their Imagination is too weak, and Rhyme's Imagination didn't get the full week to be refined), and Neku's reached a point where he can probably just fly himself and his Partner straight through a game week without much trouble so there wouldn't be any worry of her getting stuck with a sub-par partner and erased again because of that. |
| 187 | ** That can't be right. If you look closely at the people around Neku when he wakes up at the Scramble for the fourth time, you can see that people are surrounding him, rather than just walking over him. The fact that people in the RG can see him shows that he's not in the Game anymore. Not to mention, the Secret Reports mention that Rhyme didn't win her entry fee back, so she couldn't have played the Game again. |
| 188 | ** I assumed that technically, Rhyme DID manage to survive to the end of the week, but only after some severe rule bending from Mr. Hanekoma. We know that as soon as she was erased he compressed her energy/imagination/whatever into her Noise form, and kept Beat hidden away for the remainder of that first week. At that point Rhyme would still be considered "alive," and since her Noise form wasn't erased by Konishi until the third week, she would get by on a technicality. I'm assuming. |
| 189 | ** Arguably, not resurrecting Rhyme would be breaking his own rules - if Rhyme was dead, can her memories of Beat (who survived, and thus should have had his fee returned) be said to have truly returned? |
| 190 | |
| 191 | [[/folder]] |
| 192 | |
| 193 | [[folder:After coming back]] |
| 194 | |
| 195 | * What happens to people after they come back to life? Do people forget that they were dead? It's really the only explanation, but the game never really talks about it. |
| 196 | ** Theory is that either the Composer shifts reality so they never died in the first place or just erases everybody else's memory of their death. Erasing memories or subtly shifting reality should be a cakewalk to reviving anyway. An alternate theory is that He or She shoves them into an alternate universe where they hadn't died, although I prefer the memory theory. |
| 197 | ** Before the credits, Neku says that "those three weeks were very hard for me", which implies that he DOES remember his time in the UG. |
| 198 | ** And even if this is limited to non-Players, Eri is aware that Shiki died a number of days before. Ultimately though, none of these theories are hinted at by the plot, unless you count how nobody acts like people routinely come back to life. |
| 199 | ** Eri is aware that Shiki died while Shiki's still playing the game. Logically, memories of people's deaths wouldn't be erased until they'd won and chosen to come back to life. There's no proof that Eri remembered Shiki dying after she came back. Actually, there's no proof that even the Players themselves remember the Game in normal cases. Neku and co. are pretty unusual and might just be an exception. |
| 200 | ** I don't recall Eri ever explicitly stating that Shiki was dead, just that she wished Shiki could come back. Perhaps all the Players are all actually comatose? |
| 201 | ** That's one of the [[WMG/TheWorldEndsWithYou guesses]]. |
| 202 | ** Joshua is pretty powerful, maybe he just let them remember? |
| 203 | ** Eri does state explicitly that Shiki died. |
| 204 | ** "Shiki died. In an accident the other day." Beat also shows Neku the spot where he and Rhyme died, which has flowers and a Coke, (presumably as a memorial to them.) |
| 205 | ** FridgeBrilliance: No memory magic bullshit is pulled, they’re just brought back to life and no one mentions it because it could actually be somewhat commonplace in this world. |
| 206 | |
| 207 | [[/folder]] |
| 208 | |
| 209 | [[folder:Kitaniji's hands]] |
| 210 | |
| 211 | * Why doesn't Kitaniji wear gloves? It seems like it would be easier for him, and they'd suit his suit if he got the right kind. |
| 212 | ** Does he need them? Nobody noticed that he had a timer until seconds before his death. Besides, they don't lend themselves well to snake forms. |
| 213 | ** Well, assuming that the timer was visible to other people, gloves would make it a lot more plausible that no one noticed in that month. |
| 214 | ** Maybe his "snake" form is actually a [[OurDragonsAreDifferent Japanese dragon]], as they're usually depicted as serpent-like. |
| 215 | ** Nope. That snake form is called Anguis Cantus. Anguis is Latin for Snake, just like Ovis is Sheep, Leo is Lion, Tigris is Tiger, Draco is Dragon, and Pantera is Panther. Therefore, it's pretty clear that Anguis Cantus is supposed to be a snake. |
| 216 | |
| 217 | [[/folder]] |
| 218 | |
| 219 | [[folder:Secret Report 1:7]] |
| 220 | |
| 221 | * Another Secret Report Headscratcher: Week 1 Day 7's report discusses the multiple options available for winners of the Game. Being converted into Soul, becoming a Reaper or Angel, or, if the Composer deigns it so, reincarnation. What bugs me is that every Player in the game acts as though reincarnation, which is described by the report as an oddity, is ''the only option''. Several Players say that they'd gladly risk themselves multiple times for a chance to come back to life, even though many Reapers and the one Angel we see have RG lives as well. Shiki considers giving up and losing (which would also kill Neku) when she thinks that she has nothing to go back to, rather than aiming for a nice afterlife. Kitaniji pulls an entry fee stunt on her to hide the fact that the Composer can't reincarnate her, when he could offer an alternate option. And when one player actually ''does'' decide to become a Reaper, this flabbergasts everyone and is treated like a FaceHeelTurn, ''even by the Reaper in the room''! Someone's opinion of reincarnation is poorly informed, and I'm not sure whose. |
| 222 | ** Well, I would assume that they have trouble with the idea of feeding off of innocent Players in order to stay alive. This doesn't really explain why they couldn't just become Support reapers, other than the fact that standing in one spot waiting for some loser to ask you to remove a wall is incredibly boring. |
| 223 | ** Innocent Players? ''Neku'' is the only truly innocent Player. Why? Let's put it this way. If none of the Reapers or the UG existed, what would have happened? Shiki gets into an accident after her argument with Eri... and dies. Beat tries to save Rhyme from an incoming car... and both die. No one ''deserves'' to continue to exist, but the game offers the opportunity and the sorting algorithm. All they have to do is earn it. And those that earn it are given the duty of testing the others. It really shouldn't be that undesirable. |
| 224 | ** Otherwise, it seems that they have successfully devised an afterlife system in which the act of not dying is preferable to even the best possible reward. (And even for those who do die, it's better to die young than to become elderly.) I guess that would explain why there aren't any religions devoted to the Reapers. |
| 225 | ** Depends on who is saying, innocent. |
| 226 | ** Then again, while the Reapers have to erase players to continue to exist, the players typically don't need to defeat Reapers to return to life, except for the Game Master at the end of the week. Thus, most battles between players and Reapers are Reaper-initiated. The problem with Beat was that he was going after Neku (and thus hindering his attempt to bring Shiki back), in order to bring Rhyme back. |
| 227 | ** Well, Reapers attack Players with Noises, and Noises are formed from bad emotions and all that. Not being defeated by said emotions is a good test of character, right? After all, the objective of the game is make the Players grow. |
| 228 | |
| 229 | [[/folder]] |
| 230 | |
| 231 | [[folder:Shopkeepers and red pins]] |
| 232 | |
| 233 | * Why aren't the shopkeepers affected by the red pins in the endgame? You'd think that Mick, at the very least, would have one, seeing as he was very involved in that subplot. In fact, the shopkeepers must never leave their stores; they never comment on the fact that every other person in Shibuya is standing around muttering about paradise. |
| 234 | ** This is especially true for the elderly man who runs the herbal remedy shop just east of the scramble. Assuming you have befriended him enough, he asks you if you've met his grandson Shuto. You have; you've played him in several Tin Pin Slammer matches. More importantly, he's standing ''right outside that building'', saying stuff about righting the constant wrongs of our day. Look out the window occasionally, old man! |
| 235 | ** The old man also has a granddaughter, who's trying to reach his store in Week 1, tries to find the man who helped her in Week 2, and succeeds in Week 3. She's also somewhere among the brainwashed massses. |
| 236 | ** Well, if you get the Samurai Helm in Week 3, Day 7, by going to see Ken Doi (who apparently left boxes all over town for you over the past three weeks), he briefly succumbs, then goes back to normal and acts confused. |
| 237 | ** Don't forget, all of the shops that you can go to have the skull symbol in front. I think the symbol is what protects them from the red pins not the player pin it's self. It would also explain why ken Doi succumbs, he walked outside to give Neku the box. |
| 238 | ** I can tell you about Mick. On Week 3 Day 3 when you walk to 104 you see him moaning about his Business, then Eiji Oji show up and tell him about to wear whatever feel right to him. Now if you play the card right, you see him back to himself, and I think he isn't wearing the Red Pin on himself, ''Lucky him''. |
| 239 | ** My guess is that the shop decals act almost like the Player Pins; both of them have the ability of protecting the subjects from the frequency of the Red Skull pins. This is made even ''more'' obvious by Makoto himself; if you did the events as described by the person above me, his shop, Shadow Ramen, will open on [=W3D5=]. Befriend him enough, and he'll start selling Red Skull pins as Trade items. ''An unlimited supply''. You'd think that would be enough to tempt him to succumb. |
| 240 | ** Actually, the Secret Reports state that the marks lower the vibe of anything that enters. Mind reading/imprinting works in that the player pin raises the mental strength of one's own walls and lets you up your vibe to the point you can force it through the walls of others who don't have a pin (which is also why Joshua can be read). Presumably, the marks disrupt the Conductor's imprinting vibe. |
| 241 | |
| 242 | [[/folder]] |
| 243 | |
| 244 | [[folder:Joshua's parents]] |
| 245 | |
| 246 | * If I can recall, Joshua's nickname was given to him by his parents as he mentions in his introduction. He says "Mother and father call me Joshua", Just who are his parents? What happened to them? |
| 247 | ** It's possible that Joshua being The Composer was some sort of Chosen One deal, and that Joshua was chosen for this role and ascended to some higher plane of existence. |
| 248 | ** Some of his lines sound like suicide ideation. He could be a winner of another Game in the past, most likely promoted by Hanekoma after showing some promise. |
| 249 | |
| 250 | [[/folder]] |
| 251 | |
| 252 | [[folder:Rhyme pin]] |
| 253 | |
| 254 | * You can have more than one Rhyme pin. In fact, if you go for all the secret reports, you will have two, and to get to the credits sequence a second time to see the full fruits of your efforts, you'll end up with three. And ''that's'' if you save trying for Beat, Day 7's Boss symbol battle until after you've accomplished all the ''other'' requirements. Oh, and you can equip this pin during the second playthrough, as well, which means you might be wearing it when Rhyme is "alive" (or at least, as alive as any Player is), when Beat is attacking you, and even when you and Beat are chasing and fighting Konishi (and Uzuki, briefly) in order to get the pin back. You can't cash ''any'' of them in, as they're "worth more than all the yen in the world"... but does that mean that Rhyme will be triplets, at least when she's restored to life? Or will the other two or more be kept around as pet ferrets? No matter how you slice it, this has some seriously weird implications. On a pragmatic level, the pins are received already mastered, and of course, you can only equip one at a time, so having more than one seems to only exist as a means of counting how many times you've defeated Konishi. |
| 255 | ** [[GameplayAndStorySegregation Uhh...]] |
| 256 | ** That's nothing. You get one every time you go through the BossRush, because it has a 100% chance of dropping. I have ''nine''. |
| 257 | ** Even ''that'' is nothing. You can ''buy'' Rhyme pins at Shadow Ramen. You can ''buy'' them. |
| 258 | ** Well, you can dress Shiki in Pegaso, but she still "wears" D+B. |
| 259 | ** Fighting Reaper Beat with the pin is probably one of the most sadistic things you can do, though it's not addressed in the game. |
| 260 | ** Also very impractical. He's a very quick enemy, and using that pin tends to require your enemy to ''hold still'' long enough to land the hit. |
| 261 | ** Maybe Hanekoma liked the Rhyme pin, so he created several more, much like the fake one given to Uzuki. Said pin just happens to be an additional drop for Konishi, and since Neku has one real one and several fakes that summon a regular old Noise, well... "Sorry, I'd love to restore Rhyme to life, but you sort of threw the pin in a trash can. It's in a junkyard, parts of it smashed into a car. LOL, it's so ironic!" "..." "...no, Rhyme's gone. Sorry. Nice going, Neku." |
| 262 | ** This would also explain getting more than one via boss rush - every pin after the first is a replica. Also, if I recall correctly, they're Gatito pins... |
| 263 | ** You recall incorrectly. Rhyme, like all Noise pins, is Unbranded. |
| 264 | |
| 265 | [[/folder]] |
| 266 | |
| 267 | [[folder:Shiki's clothing]] |
| 268 | |
| 269 | * At the end of the game, you see the real Shiki, and she's dramatically less good looking than her UG counterpart. I only got a quick glimpse of her, but if memory serves correctly, the reason she's kind of plain looking is not because she's really fat or has acne or something, it's because she's got an unattractive hairdo, round glasses, and loose fitting, untrendy clothing. That is, it's a fashion issue that makes her unattractive, not a body issues. Which is strange, because Shiki is supposed to be very fashion-conscious. Huh. |
| 270 | ** Shiki only claimed to be fashion-conscious, that doesn't necessarily mean she ''is''. She either said that because she was still imitating Eri, or was simply in denial about her lack of fashion sense. Besides, Eri had told her she wasn't cut out to be a designer. |
| 271 | ** Perhaps this may be a matter of personal taste, but I found what I saw of Shiki's appearance ''more'' attractive than Eri's. |
| 272 | ** Shiki's whole arc was about jealousy stemming from low self-esteem. She's probably saying the truth when she says she knows all the trends, but that's an entirely different thing from being confident enough to wear a mini so mini your hip bones jut out. It's well established that she feels inferior to Eri in a lot of ways, and that's why she decided to take her form in the Game. In the Game's terms, she just isn't Brave enough to pull it off. (Which can also be FridgeBrilliance: Shiki's high Bravery stat can be because she feels more confident under disguise.) |
| 273 | |
| 274 | [[/folder]] |
| 275 | |
| 276 | [[folder:Shiki in week 3]] |
| 277 | |
| 278 | * Shiki won the game in Week 1, so why does she still have Eri's appearance in Week 3? |
| 279 | ** Kitaniji probably just never gave it back, considering that she was basically nonexistent for two weeks. In the Composer's absence the rules of the UG were invalidated, so he had no real obligation to return her entry fee anyway. |
| 280 | ** Probably so that Neku would recognize her when he saw her in the Shibuya River, and thus have difficulty fighting her; if she looked different, and then attacked, it would be easier for Neku to psychologically distance himself. (Kitaniji presumably doesn't know that Neku knows that Shiki has Eri's appearance.) |
| 281 | ** Or we can take Joshua word for it in another day, That we see what Neku see, but Beat on the other hand... |
| 282 | ** Met her during the first week several times. The same may very well apply to him. |
| 283 | ** We're kind of forgetting that Kitaniji, as the Conductor, doesn't have the power to bring people back to life; only the Composer does. It's safe to assume that the Conductor can't return the entry fee to the Players either. |
| 284 | ** Not true. Kitaniji returned Neku's entry fee at the end of Week 1, and the Secret Reports say that Beat's entry fee was returned as well. |
| 285 | ** I'm assuming Joshua was the one who returned Beat's entry fee, as Kitaniji has been erased by the time they are reincarnated, but it's true that he DID return Neku's as well. Perhaps he didn't feel the need to return Shiki's entry fee since he couldn't bring her back to life anyways, and was probably counting on Neku to be erased, making his entry fee null and void. |
| 286 | |
| 287 | [[/folder]] |
| 288 | |
| 289 | [[folder:Trap at Towa]] |
| 290 | |
| 291 | * What would have happened if all of the Players had realized the mission to reach Towa Records with no time limit was a trap, and thus avoided going there? |
| 292 | ** They'd probably get erased. Just because there's no time limit doesn't mean that the Reapers can't decide that they've had more than enough time, or maybe it'd be an automatic game over if the RG day ended. |
| 293 | ** An automatic game over would probably occur at the end of the week (since they're told the game lasts sevens days at the beginning). Plus, the players would still be assigned a new mission each day. |
| 294 | |
| 295 | [[/folder]] |
| 296 | |
| 297 | [[folder:Tin Pin Slammer]] |
| 298 | |
| 299 | * I was just wondering... How on earth would one play Tin Pin Slammer in real life? And what the heck does Shooter use the Red Kaiser for? Shooting pins? How does that help you in the game at all? |
| 300 | ** I like to think the pins were controlled semi-psychicly, a-la the Beyblade anime. It would naturally follow that the Whammies are actually low-level psyches, and the entire purpose of Tin Pin Slammer is to help people develop their latent psychic abilities, with the intent of strengthening their Imagination to give them a better chance in the Reaper's Game. Red Kaiser is probably like a mental training brace that helps Shooter better focus his energy so that he develops at a faster rate and/or to a higher level, but doesn't actively enhance his abilities while slamming. Several lines in Another Day support this - Beat mentions he feels more badass just by wearing his, and Shiki finds hers to be rather fashionable. Presumably, they imprint on people in a similar way to CAT's graffiti or the Red Skull pins in order to encourage people to wear them. Of cousre, this theory blends the two continuities a bit too much to be plausible, until you consider that pins and Tin Pin are heavily integrated into the Game, and that Another Day's Game could actually involve playing Tin Pin in order to earn a second chance at life. |
| 301 | ** The above troper is right; when Red Kaiser is smashed in Another Day, Shooter is depressed, but admits that he can play without it, as it does ''nothing at all'', just being a training brace; this surprises even Neku, who had previously said that Shooter could play without it. |
| 302 | ** Maybe pins have built-in chips and work somewhat akin to Amiibos (the game was developed for Nintendo platform, so it has some amount of sense) in a digital game? Accidentally, that also accounts for inflated prices - they are not just regular useless dozen-on-a-dime pins, but game pieces of different rarity tiers. |
| 303 | |
| 304 | [[/folder]] |
| 305 | |
| 306 | [[folder:Shiki and Neku's fashion]] |
| 307 | |
| 308 | * Does anyone else find it ironic that Shiki mocks over Neku's modified "Jupiter of the monkey"-outfit, while she herself, in real life, wears a badly assembled mix of "Mus Rattus"(most unpopular brand in Shibuya) and "Natural Puppy" clothes? I actually think, a pure "Natural Puppy" or a "D+B"-look with some "Natural Puppy"-elements would fit her better. Reconsidering it again, why hasn't Eri already desinged her better clothes yet?! The two are supposed to be BFF aren't they?! |
| 309 | ** Just like the odds are that your [[TakeThatMe favorite webcomic artist or fanfic writer is really a fat virgin nerd]], it's highly likely that Shiki just doesn't take the time to do nice things for herself. |
| 310 | |
| 311 | [[/folder]] |
| 312 | |
| 313 | [[folder:Ex-Players]] |
| 314 | |
| 315 | * Say, ever think that that the shopkeepers are ex-players themselves. I mean why would they sell "pins" that have better psychs than the starter pins? Or how the clothes they sell act like Armor (and Accessory) for the games? And why no one just cleans up that tag that let the RG see the Player? |
| 316 | ** The Reapers send them the stuff to sell. They are clueless about what it does. The Reapers control Shibuya's fashion. |
| 317 | ** The shopkeeprs are the ones who tell you what your threads do, so obviously they know. Also, the reapers may control the available items, but its the players who control the trends. |
| 318 | |
| 319 | [[/folder]] |
| 320 | |
| 321 | [[folder:Visible in certain stores]] |
| 322 | |
| 323 | * How does it make sense that the players are visible in certain stores? I mean, let's take an example: Shiki goes shopping in 104 with Neku. Eri goes shopping at the same time in 104. Eri sees Shiki in her body. "WHA! IT'S MY EVIL TWIN!" "Nope, it's me, Shiki, your dead BFF, remember? I'm just here, playing a game for my life in your body, because I like my own so much! Makes perfectly sense, doesn't it?" "Oh, hi Shiki! Excuse me, I'm off to faint, over there in the corner!" Oh, it gets even worse. Next example: Beat and Rhyme go shopping. Their parents go shopping. The parents see ''their dead children''. Heart attack, period. What is the point in making dead people visible in shops, when everybody knows that they're supposed to be, well, ''dead''?! |
| 324 | ** [[MST3KMantra Don't think too hard on it, it's just a game]]. |
| 325 | ** How else would they shop? |
| 326 | ** Practically speaking, every time there's been an event in 104 it's been incredibly crowded. Odds are good that it would be difficult to see anyone specific who wasn't standing at your elbow. Besides, the Player Pins probably exude a Somebody Else's Problem Field. |
| 327 | ** If the Pins did that, Neku wouldn't have been able to become Shooter's rival. |
| 328 | ** It only works if you're not directly interacting with someone or extremely visible. |
| 329 | ** I'm going to go with the most logical response here: What are the actual chances of somebody you know, that knows you're dead, shopping in the same store as you at the exact same second, in a place like Shibuya, which is a ''shopping mecca''?? Astronomically slim, that's what. Just because we only have access to a dozen or so stores in game, that doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of others around for other people to be shopping at, instead of where you are. |
| 330 | ** Not all that slim. Eri and Shiki probably buy in the same places, and better yet, what if Prince took a photo of Shiki when they met and posted it in his blog? Besides that, Reapers can visit the RG too, and it's implied that they were players. So, can't they go meet their family for example? After years, the chances of accidentaly bumping in someone that knew you and knew that you is/were (?) dead will not be so slim after all. Or, in the case of 777, if their families are still alive, do they have to avoid fame so they wouldn't be spotted? |
| 331 | ** Here's a better question: What's preventing Players from shoplifting aside from morality? Even if there are alarms that go off, you're home free as soon as you walk out the door. |
| 332 | *** Probably not much aside from the fact that befriending the shopkeepers gives you certain abilities. Knowing who the composer is, it's pretty easy to assume that, even if he considered the possibility at all or had this problem pointed out to him, he probably wouldn't have cared that much. |
| 333 | *** Answer from the sequel: [[spoiler:nothing but their own conscience]]. |
| 334 | [[/folder]] |
| 335 | |
| 336 | [[folder:Durability]] |
| 337 | |
| 338 | * On a more mechanical note, why are cars less durable than bicycles? They always seem to deliver less hits when used with Psychokinesis pins before blinking out. Furthermore, I'm not sure what kind of weirdness censor the RG people have, but I don't think they could miss a car flying through the air and then falling apart inexplicably. I also don't think objects can have their vibe adjusted in the same way that Players and Reapers can, which means that if a car exists in the Noise Plane it probably exists in the Real Ground too. |
| 339 | ** My guess is that the cars and such in the Noise Plane are created by people similar to how the Noise are created. |
| 340 | ** And well you use ''more'' Telekinesis on a Cars than a bicycles. |
| 341 | ** And to add one to this, where are the Cars and the other Obstacles in the RG and the UG at all? You don't see some in the RG. Well, there are some Car passing by at Dogenzaka, but still. |
| 342 | ** And the cars that pass by the Miyashita Park Underpass (where Beat and Rhyme died). |
| 343 | ** Actually, if Sho's trash heaps are any indication, objects ''can'' be adjusted to exist on individual planes. After all, Konishi states specifically that his "works of art" were spotted ''around the UG''. |
| 344 | |
| 345 | [[/folder]] |
| 346 | |
| 347 | [[folder:Points]] |
| 348 | |
| 349 | * How would SDPP and MPP work in-game? I get how BPP works; you face Noise... |
| 350 | ** I'm guessing Mingle PP is your characters interacting with other players (espers), living people in stores (civvies), and aliens. |
| 351 | ** Shutdown is either "Recharge" PP (Get some fugging sleep!) or just "Dream" PP that you collect from reading other people's thoughts for an extended period of time. |
| 352 | ** It's AntiPoopSocking, of course. It can go [[FridgeLogic beyond the realms of logic]]. |
| 353 | |
| 354 | [[/folder]] |
| 355 | |
| 356 | [[folder:Killed while shopping]] |
| 357 | |
| 358 | * What would happen if a Player was killed while shopping? |
| 359 | ** The shops count as both part of the RG and the UG. You can't "do" certain things in the RG (like killing people or players), so the likely answer is that somebody would be in for a whole lot of pain once the higher-ups found out. |
| 360 | ** I think he's referring to "what if some random loser robbed one of the stores and attacked a player with lethal results?". |
| 361 | ** I think they'd wind up in the UG somewhere else; Neku's killed in Udagawa and shows up at the Scramble Crossing. |
| 362 | ** But will they have to pay another entry fee? |
| 363 | * Maybe they're just invincible? Or possibly they'd appear to die but just be transported to another part of the UG? |
| 364 | * ObviousRulePatch speculation: pins and psychs are disabled while inside, and the noise is tuned out to preserve TheMasquerade. If killed by/died to mundane means: sucks to be you, game over, you're erased from both the world and bystanders' memories. |
| 365 | [[/folder]] |
| 366 | |
| 367 | [[folder:Eating]] |
| 368 | |
| 369 | * Okay, so the players eat. And you can even get a special sticker that allows you to eat anything in the game without becoming full. So... when exactly does Neku get a chance to take a dump? I suppose the other players could go use the bathroom while Neku's shopping (at least the restaurants have to have toilets), but... |
| 370 | ** Easy, they just switch off. |
| 371 | ** UG is on a different frequency of existence - like a different radio station. Plus, the kids are, you know, dead. Why would they body function as a living person's should be? They're Souls that retain human shape and mind, and when they show up at a shop or a fastfood junction, it probably counts as being a very tangible ghost. There's another thing. You know how every food item has a certain amount of bytes, and that you have a certain amount of bytes you can digest per day? And you digest food by fighting. So when you eat and then fight, food bytes slowly become ''your'' own, thus adding a point to whatever stat the food is raising. I think it's kind of like an expansion to the Soul - it gets bigger or more dense the higher your stats is, and you get higher stats by eating food (or wearing items). |
| 372 | |
| 373 | [[/folder]] |
| 374 | |
| 375 | [[folder:Selling pins]] |
| 376 | |
| 377 | * When you sell your pins, who are you selling them to? Not a shopkeeper, because you can't sell pins while in a shop. Certainly not a random bystander-- they can't see you. Who? |
| 378 | ** The trash can. |
| 379 | ** A special machine dedicated for it. |
| 380 | |
| 381 | [[/folder]] |
| 382 | |
| 383 | [[folder:Instrumentality]] |
| 384 | |
| 385 | * The AssimilationPlot seems to happen gradually, and one of the Secret Reports seems to suggest that this is because it takes a while for everyone to get Red Skull pins. How does the rest of the population get them if anyone they could possibly buy them from is busy standing in one place and talking in red text? For that matter, why does nobody else notice? When you scan the remaining people, they have normal thoughts. Is that guy so distracted by that girl's outfit that he doesn't notice her glowing red eyes? Is the post about "princess training" on Princess K's blog really stranger than the 500 posts about shining a light of true redemption? And the one that notices you reading their mind and is paranoid about mind control has no excuse. |
| 386 | ** The one who was paranoid about mind control probably left Shibuya. |
| 387 | ** The Conductor began spreading the red skull pins across Shibuya during the first week, but they weren't activated yet. When the third week came, they had been issued to the Reapers as O-Pins and by then pretty much everybody in Shibuya had one. So come the third week, he activated the pins and the pins slowly took effect, resulting in mass brainwashing without the suspicion. |
| 388 | |
| 389 | [[/folder]] |
| 390 | |
| 391 | [[folder:Other players]] |
| 392 | |
| 393 | * What happened to the other Week 3 Players after Neku and Beat won the game? |
| 394 | ** The Composer reset the three weeks, I think. Therefore, everything that happened is now nothing more than a memory. To the people of Shibuya, it's like a CanonDiscontinuity. |
| 395 | ** If Shibuya was indeed reset, wouldn't this cause problems? For instance, if someone who was in Shibuya at the beginning of the three weeks but had left by the end of the third week, the reset would cause two copies of that person to exist. |
| 396 | ** Or maybe the fee wasn't the potential players, themselves, but instead the possibility of any other players? In other words, Neku himself was the one and only player until Beat came along. (How many people die in Shibuya in a week, anyway?) |
| 397 | ** 582, according to the manga (which seems like an awful lot, but whatever). Of course, that being Week One and considering that apparently there isn't a Game every week, those 582 may have been built up over time. Which, come to think of it, makes me wonder how long some people sit around waiting for a Game to be held. Are they conscious for it? |
| 398 | ** I suspect they're treated as though they never entered, and got another chance to play through. |
| 399 | |
| 400 | [[/folder]] |
| 401 | |
| 402 | [[folder:Each other as entry fees]] |
| 403 | |
| 404 | * What would happen if two player's had each other as their entry fees? |
| 405 | ** [[NonstandardGameOver Instant Game Over?]] |
| 406 | ** Not possible. They might take your memories of each other, but not the actual person. Kitanji only does this with Shiki to cover his ass. |
| 407 | ** Perhaps it would depend what about that person they valued. If it's companionship, for example, they might be put on separate teams and unable to see each other. |
| 408 | |
| 409 | [[/folder]] |
| 410 | |
| 411 | [[folder:Same entry fee]] |
| 412 | |
| 413 | * What would happen if two players had the same entry fee and one of them lost, but the other won? |
| 414 | ** Uhh... The composer would find a.... compromise? Like getting half of your love back... or something. |
| 415 | ** The one who won gets it back, the one who lost loses it (along with everything else in the world) for good since they're now, y'know, completely dead and past the point where they have a most precious thing. |
| 416 | ** Or maybe they could [[LaserGuidedAmnesia forget all about each other]], like Beat did with Rhyme? (The deal with Shiki was entirely a ploy, although a fairly convincing one, as he had come to see her as a friend by the end of the week). |
| 417 | ** I defy you to name something that two separate people share as their most important thing. |
| 418 | ** Two parents die. They have a child. |
| 419 | ** I don't think that two people can have a completely identical fee. Even with the child example - do we assume that both parents love their child? And what do they love about their child? Do they want to be there to protect him or her, or be there to see them succeed in life?.. And like the troper above said - the one who won wins it, the one who lost loses it altogether with his life. |
| 420 | ** The most logical answer is that, in the same way that you can't buy two $20 admissions with the same twenty-dollar bill, they wouldn't allow two Players to use the same entry fee. In that case, one's fee would be diverted to the second most valuable thing. It wouldn't make sense to handle it otherwise, and it doesn't come up often enough for it to be worth mentioning at times when it doesn't apply. |
| 421 | |
| 422 | [[/folder]] |
| 423 | |
| 424 | [[folder:Reapers changing cities]] |
| 425 | |
| 426 | * Can a Reaper work in a different city? |
| 427 | ** Complicated question, since the do have a RG life, which allows them to move freely... however, I think they have to return to their "hometown" immediately, once the conductor calls them. They're probably erased if they don't follow. |
| 428 | ** What I meant was, can a Reaper choose to work in another city's Reaper's Game. |
| 429 | ** Well maybe... I mean there has to be some other Reaper's Games in Tokyo. |
| 430 | ** Those would be run by a Composer of another Tokyo ward - Joshua is specifically stated to be the Composer of Shibuya, not the whole of Tokyo, which would mean other wards have their own Composers. Reapers probably stay in the area they've died in, and can't choose under which Composer he or she gets to work. I mean, imagine if they could choose? Imagine if a whole bunch of Reaper recruits decided "Screw Shibuya, I wanna work in Bunkyo" - that would mean no Reapers to run the game, and ''that'' would mean a major inconvenience. |
| 431 | ** I'd imagine it's a lot like a real job. You can petition for a transfer, or, if you did just decide to say "Screw this job, I'm going somewhere else!", you get fired. Which, for a Reaper, would be really bad. |
| 432 | ** Sequel says that they indeed can switch cities, though there may be some administrative complications. |
| 433 | [[/folder]] |
| 434 | |
| 435 | [[folder:Pendant remain]] |
| 436 | |
| 437 | * How come that all of Rhyme's clothes disappear, once she's erased, but her pendant stays? Not her Pins, or her hat, or her cellphone, but her pendant? Is that the RuleOfDrama or something? |
| 438 | ** I always assumed if just fell off when she tackled Beat, so it wasn't erased with the rest of her. |
| 439 | ** It's possible the pendant was what she used to attack (like Mr Mew or Beat's skateboard), so it had special properties to it. |
| 440 | |
| 441 | [[/folder]] |
| 442 | |
| 443 | [[folder:Eri in Another Day]] |
| 444 | |
| 445 | * So, where was Eri during Another Day? |
| 446 | ** Out shopping? |
| 447 | ** Dead? |
| 448 | ** There is no Eri in Another Day. |
| 449 | ** Possessing Mr. Mew? |
| 450 | ** At home. |
| 451 | ** Possessing Shiki? |
| 452 | ** Wait, where was she the last 21 days? |
| 453 | ** You can see her being affected by the AssimilationPlot at some point, IIRC. |
| 454 | ** Wait, Where? |
| 455 | |
| 456 | [[/folder]] |
| 457 | |
| 458 | [[folder:Killed Reaper in RG]] |
| 459 | |
| 460 | * What would happen if you killed a reaper in the RG? Would they have some special immunity to it, or could they just phase out to the UG the moment they are attacked? |
| 461 | ** The Reaper could probably phase out to the UG before the attack made contact, however if they didn't they would die. What happens after that would be determined by the Composer. |
| 462 | ** Judging from the fact that Minamimoto attempts to kill Joshua in the RG, I'd say it's a pretty fair bet that they just plain die. |
| 463 | |
| 464 | [[/folder]] |
| 465 | |
| 466 | [[folder:Fox Noise]] |
| 467 | |
| 468 | * Alright, why does the Fox Noise Progfox (and the [[DegradedBoss other two]]) have the ability to {{ShapeShift|ing}}, but the only human that it can shape-shift into is Neku himself? |
| 469 | ** Because it's who it's fighting against. I don't recall it shapeshifting on the upper screen, but even if it does, I call technical reasons: it's just easier to morph the thing into the only player character they know you'll be using to fight (since, you know, it is the player character ''per se'') |
| 470 | ** The Progfox can morph on the top screen. It still looks like Neku. |
| 471 | ** To save up on bytes of game code? |
| 472 | ** Maybe the Noise just go with the strongest Player they see in the Noise plane. In Joshua's case, though, maybe they were constrained by their own strength or just plain scared of facing him or maybe Downtuned!Joshua "looks" weaker than Neku. |
| 473 | * The Progfox blue boss Noise is also the only Noise that has been seen to capable of performing a Fusion-like attack. (Uzuki and Kariya are also shown to be capable of doing this when they are under the influence of the Red Skull Pins in W3D4, but they are implied to have a similar relationship with each other that Neku has to his partners. Plus they're Reapers, not Noise) The Progfox is only one entity, how could it possibly have gained this ability? |
| 474 | |
| 475 | [[/folder]] |
| 476 | |
| 477 | [[folder:Joshua Dying]] |
| 478 | |
| 479 | * Okay, here's a good one, has Joshua even died? I mean there's no way that he can be the Composer and even play the games if he was still alive in the games, even if he can see the UG. There is just no way that he can be playing and also be the Composer. I don't care if he's still alive or not, it's just that he has to die to be a player in the games and trying to be the Composer. |
| 480 | ** Joshua is dead, Kariya simply assumes he's alive because his power level (for lack of a better term) is so high that only the Composer or someone living could have such a high level and since the Composer typically doesn't play the Reaper's game he assumed Joshua must be alive, and Joshua decided to go along with it. Also, Joshua wasn't a Player in his week long game with Neku in any real sense of the word (i.e. he didn't pay an entry fee and lacked a player pin) which is why Neku is considered a cheater. |
| 481 | ** Remember, Mr. H, and other Reapers are able to change their frequency to go from the UG to the RG and back. It's safe to say that as the Composer, Joshua can just change his frequency at will as well. Also don't forget when Sho did the Lvl ''i'' Flare, Joshua jumped to the Another Day dimension, which is a different frequency from the one they are on. |
| 482 | |
| 483 | [[/folder]] |
| 484 | |
| 485 | [[folder:Shiki's face]] |
| 486 | |
| 487 | * So is there any reason why we haven't seen Shiki's real face yet? Other then Joshua's HandWave. |
| 488 | ** Josh's HandWave was just the long version of "the developers were too lazy to draw extra-sprites". |
| 489 | ** It was probably just to keep her real face secret, not laziness. What would be the point of obscuring the upper half of her face to keep it a mystery, and then revealing her face in sprite-form when you play the bonus chapter two minutes later? |
| 490 | ** There's official art of her real self out there somewhere. If you really want to see her face, google for it. |
| 491 | ** [[http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7857/realshikicq5um5.jpg The picture you're referring to]] is not official, it's a fanart from the now-defunct [[http://104th.net/ 104th.net]]. No official art of Shiki in the RG exists outside of what we see in the game. |
| 492 | ** First of all, thanks to ''NEO'', there now '''is''' [[https://twewy.fandom.com/wiki/Shiki_Misaki official artwork]] of Shiki's real face. Secondly, Joshua's handwave explains why her appearance doesn't change in Another Day, but not the ending of either of the game or the anime. Unless WordOfGod says otherwise, I'd just chalk it up to some pretentious BS like the briefcase from ''Pulp Fiction''. |
| 493 | |
| 494 | [[/folder]] |
| 495 | |
| 496 | [[folder:Saving Beat]] |
| 497 | |
| 498 | * How was Mr. Hanekoma able to get away with turning Rhyme into a pin (and saving Beat in process)? All his other violations were done brilliantly in secret, but that was a clear violation of the rule done in open. I doubt Joshua would approve of it as well since Beat almost screwed up Joshua's plan during the second week. Even though it ended up helping Johsua much later on, it's not like Joshua could have predicted that anyway. |
| 499 | ** He never actually reported turning Rhyme into a pin and his superiors don't have anyone keeping an eye of him. |
| 500 | ** Considering he taught Minamimoto how to make a Taboo Noise refinery sigil and sent him out to ''kill the Composer'', created the Instrumentality pins, and indirectly causing the Erasure of ''at least'' a few dozen Reapers, saving one pair of Players seems kind of minor. |
| 501 | ** Yeah, but Mr. Hanekoma at least put some efforts into hiding those violations. Anyone with the common sense can figure out why Beat who lost his partner didn't get erased few minutes later. And similarly, why wasn't Beat penalized for cheating? Turning a player into a pin isn't obviously something Beat (or any other players for that matter) can do, meaning he must have gotten some illegal help from above. |
| 502 | ** Maybe they bought his "this is okay because it won't affect The Game" (in this obviously-special case, the Game between the Composer and the Conductor, rather than the ordinary Game) excuse? Granted, all Angels would have to be really stupid to accept it, because it had me go, "Suuuure, Mr. H," long before I even reached report #21. Or (taking that thought to its logical conclusion) perhaps he is ''allowed'' to take such actions in a normal Game, particularly if the Player/s involved are particularly nice? It's a Game for judging humanity, after all, and both Beat and Rhyme have self-sacrifice in their favor. |
| 503 | ** As the final secret report states, he has gone into hiding because he knows he's screwed if he is found. It seems that people in the higher planes did in fact not approve of what he did, and he can only hope that someday his actions will be proven justified. |
| 504 | |
| 505 | [[/folder]] |
| 506 | |
| 507 | [[folder:Shiki's appearance]] |
| 508 | |
| 509 | * Okay, so Shiki gave up her appearance to play the games. Isn't it a bit ironic that her new appearance is her best friend Eri? I mean there are a lot of appearances that she could have, but Eri? Why pick her of all appearances? |
| 510 | ** Eri was prettier, more popular, and more upbeat than Shiki. Shiki was jealous and wanted to be like Eri. |
| 511 | ** So you're telling me the the Composer picked Eri's appearance because Shiki wanted to be like Eri, like he thinks "This Player wanted to be like her best friend. Okay, why not? I'll make her ''be like her.''" |
| 512 | ** Shiki was jealous of Eri. Very much. But the thing she treasured most was the way she looked- maybe she wanted to be awesome like Eri, but with her own body. What better way to MindScrew someone than letting them have exactly what they've always dreamed of and didn't want at the same time? The Composer is a jerk, the Composer is very morally ambiguous, and the Composer likes screwing with people. |
| 513 | ** More like the bodies they have during The Game aren't necessarily the bodies they've got in the RG; it could be that's just Eri's ideal body, and that's how she appears to others. It won't affect the game one way or another what she looks like, so neither the Composer nor the Conductor has any real reason to care. |
| 514 | ** When you're jealous of someone, it's not always because you want what they have in a literal sense. Sometimes it's because you want more recognition for what it is you already have, believing your thing to be as deserving of praise as the other person's thing is. So clearly your thing is very valuable to you- enough for the Reapers to take away. That's her situation. |
| 515 | |
| 516 | [[/folder]] |
| 517 | |
| 518 | [[folder:Merch]] |
| 519 | |
| 520 | * Eventually, you can buy TWEWY merchandise as clothes. Does this mean the game exists within the game? 'Cause that would result in a rather nasty recursive fiction loop. |
| 521 | ** 1) It's never spelt out what 'TWEWY' stands for in-universe. 2) The FourthWall is kind of permeable, for the more powerful characters - Josh breaks it several times in Another Day...it'd be trivial for Mr H to demonstr...er...bend it a bit. |
| 522 | |
| 523 | [[/folder]] |
| 524 | |
| 525 | [[folder:Elephant boss]] |
| 526 | |
| 527 | * Okay which elephant is ThatOneBoss [[BossInMookClothing In Mook Clothing]]? The Pachy R & R (White Elephant) or the Mammoth R & B (Pink Elephant)? |
| 528 | ** Probably both of them. They have about the same attack pattern, right? |
| 529 | ** Pink one, [=IIRC=]. It's fudging ''everywhere'' in Another Day and has higher attack and health than the white one while the white one only appears on [=W3D5=] and [=W3D6=]. |
| 530 | |
| 531 | [[/folder]] |
| 532 | |
| 533 | [[folder:Off time]] |
| 534 | |
| 535 | * What exactly do the Officers who aren't the current GM do? Also, what do the Angels who aren't the Producer do? |
| 536 | ** Organise? |
| 537 | ** Play Tin Pin, duh. |
| 538 | ** Officers can go to the RG at will. Most have a mundane life there. Angels have access to more planes, and manage coffee shops. |
| 539 | [[/folder]] |
| 540 | |
| 541 | [[folder:Kariya and Uzuki fighting]] |
| 542 | |
| 543 | * If Kariya and Uzuki are such well-established top-of-the-line Harriers who are inches away from promotion, how come they lose every fight you have against them, while newbie Beat is always a HopelessBossFight? |
| 544 | ** Maybe Rhyme helps Beat out; she was smart. Also Neku is on his 3rd week. He's been leveled up a lot and he knows what he's doing. |
| 545 | ** It's never really stated that Uzuki is that great a Harrier. Well, Konishi does say that to her, but she was probably just buttering her up. And for all we know, Kariya could easily cream you, and he just doesn't because a) he's too lazy, and b) he seems to be the only Reaper that cares even a little about making the Game somewhat fair. As for why Beat is a HopelessBossFight, maybe newbie reapers have some sort of extra power they get, that wears off once they're been a reaper for a while and they've adjusted. Or Neku just had trouble fighting him because they know each other. |
| 546 | ** Reaper Beat isn't that hard when you face him as an OptionalBoss, (and a good source of drops), so it's possible that story-wise, Neku had problems with fighting Beat (who isn't quite a friend yet to Neku, but since Neku is opening up to people, it's difficult to fight someone like Beat). As for Uzuki and Kariya, their fight [[ThatOneBoss isn't exactly easy]], but there are a few possible reasons why Neku and Beat win; 1) Neku's presumably stronger after surviving for over two weeks, and has Beat on his side (during the fights with him, Joshua was holding back), and 2) Neku and Beat are trying harder than ever, not only knowing that all the players, Shiki and Rhyme are on the line, and they won't have another chance. |
| 547 | |
| 548 | [[/folder]] |
| 549 | |
| 550 | [[folder:Grinding and aesop]] |
| 551 | |
| 552 | * The end of the game basically tells you to go outside and socialise... and the post game is then made up of hours and hours of inane and tedious grinding, which you generally have to do by yourself. What the heck? |
| 553 | ** I suspect FridgeBrilliance. The post game is nothing more than 100% completion, and you can blame no one but yourself for taking part in it. What are the rewards for 100% completion? Additional characters standing by the main cast on the save screen. Thus, the game has just told you that going out and making friends is the key to an enjoyable life, and yet you can continue to play a single-player game for hours on end to earn images of imaginary friends to stand next to your fictional avatar. They probably hope that one day you will look at your stats screen and say "wait a minute..." |
| 554 | ** Well, at least there are a few pins that you have to level up by Mingle if you want to have 100% Completion. |
| 555 | ** You neglected to mention the other benefit of collecting the secret reports: if you fail to do so, ''the ending makes no sense.'' |
| 556 | ** You don't need hours and hours of inane and tedious grinding to get all the secret reports, except maybe the one for Another Day. I'm thinking more of 100% pin mastery, items, Noise list... |
| 557 | |
| 558 | [[/folder]] |
| 559 | |
| 560 | [[folder:Knowing Shiki's fee]] |
| 561 | |
| 562 | * Okay, did Beat know about Shiki's fee or something? Cause Beat saw Shiki's "Game" appearance, So how come he isn't confused by her "New" appearance? |
| 563 | ** Shiki probably explained it to him and Rhyme earlier in the week. |
| 564 | ** I always assumed that Neku told Beat during Week 3, along with some of the other bits of the plot that Beat missed. |
| 565 | ** Recall that Neku said he was meeting his friends for the ''first time in a week''. This could mean that they all met each other a week earlier. So if Beat wasn't informed about Shiki new look before, he was then. |
| 566 | |
| 567 | [[/folder]] |
| 568 | |
| 569 | [[folder:Kitaniji's Villain Ball]] |
| 570 | |
| 571 | * Why was Kitaniji holding the VillainBall so hard during the GrandFinale? He had a perfectly good reason for the brainwashing yet he doesn't mention this to Neku. Sure he could have been arrogant enough to think he could handle Neku easily but why bother when you can get him willingly? Also in a case of WhyDontYouJustShootHim if he had just crushed Beat while he was holding him he could have killed Neku instantly. |
| 572 | ** Neku would probably not believe Kitanji as Neku thinks Joshua is dead; it was only after Joshua gave Neku his memories back and showed how everything started from the beginning that Neku realized the full plot. And even if Neku does believe Kitanji, Neku would 1. reason that brainwashing people into becoming mindless slaves is just as bad as destroying the city outright and 2. be unable to turn against Joshua because of his trust in Joshua as shown in the end. |
| 573 | ** It's probable that Kitaniji was sworn to secrecy, as he was supposed to be playing against the Composer alone. Otherwise he could have gotten a lot of characters on board with a "save Shibuya from destruction" plan, not just Neku. As for WhyDontYouJustShootHim, he already tried to, but Beat took the bullet instead (when he was "crushed"). |
| 574 | |
| 575 | [[/folder]] |
| 576 | |
| 577 | [[folder:Phone Brave]] |
| 578 | |
| 579 | * Neku's Phones have 150 Brave, Beat's Cap has 150 Brave, Shiki's Stuffed Animal has 200 Brave and Joshua's Angel Feather has 999 Brave and they all wear them (Unknown for Joshua) and still have low Brave. |
| 580 | ** As I recall they are replicas. For some reason it takes more bravery to wear a knockoff in a city as fashion conscious as Shibuya. |
| 581 | ** Knockoff? Well they're better and more powerful knockoffs alright. |
| 582 | ** The real answer is that localization inflated Bravery requirement for all of these, plus a bunch of other postgame threads. |
| 583 | |
| 584 | [[/folder]] |
| 585 | |
| 586 | [[folder:Clothing stats]] |
| 587 | |
| 588 | * How does wearing high heeled shoes make you ''less'' likely to be knocked down? Granted, I never wear high heeled shoes, but it makes little sense that two items with that same ability are both high heeled shoes. |
| 589 | ** Perhaps these are special high-heels, which are so pointy they dig into the ground and act like extremely fashionable cleats. |
| 590 | |
| 591 | [[/folder]] |
| 592 | |
| 593 | [[folder:Red and Green]] |
| 594 | |
| 595 | * Where do Red Noise and Green Noise come from? Yellow Noise come from people's bad vibes, Blue Noise are almost sentient on themselves, and Black Noise come from that "Taboo Refinery" thing, but Red and especially Green ones seem to exist... just for the sake of it. In fact, I don't think the origin of Blue ones is too clear, also. Then again, I think I forgot what they mentioned on the first chapters, and still working on the secret reports, so... yeah. |
| 596 | ** The red ones are your standard, Reaper-created Noise, green are just the special pig Noise, and the blue ones are OptionalBoss Noise. |
| 597 | ** I know what they are, I want to know where they ''come from''. |
| 598 | ** This is mostly explained in the Secret Reports. If you want to know ''how'' the Reapers create noise, which is what I think you want to know considering what you just said, I'll do that. Reapers create Noise by gathering 'Soul' into a tangible form. In the Secret Reports, it's explained that everything "living", per se, is made up of Soul. Example: Players, Reapers, Noise, etc. Whenever a Player or Reaper is erased, their Soul disperses. Same for Noise. Reapers just gather up that Soul, bind it to a pin (Mentioned by Kariya in-game), and summon it. It's likely that Noise are also created naturally, by the Soul gathering on its own. Example: Yellow Noise, and maybe Red Noise and Pig Noise? As for Boss Noise... there's probably not really an explanation for that. You're fighting bosses you've already beaten. What do you expect? If they tried, it'd probably just be a HandWave. |
| 599 | ** Pigs still bug me, though... All the other Noises are violent and unfriendly, but Pigs are just... neutral(with one exception). I'd understand if there was such a thing as good "natural" Noise(i.e., not pin-bound) but the way it is they're just anomalies among all the evil Noise. |
| 600 | ** You know, You only get to see the Boss Noise ''after'' you played the Game. |
| 601 | ** Not all of them. There are those fox Boss Noise that are available your first time through, so some do just float around normally without it being a New Game+ extra. |
| 602 | |
| 603 | [[/folder]] |
| 604 | |
| 605 | [[folder:Neku's knowledge]] |
| 606 | |
| 607 | * Neku seems to start the game knowing what a Reaper and "erase" are (Ok, the second doesn't take a big leap to figure out). When did he learn this? Did I miss something? |
| 608 | ** Neku had no clue what those were; he figured it out himself, with sparse help from Shiki. Players are probably told about the Game and how it works before starting, but Neku had global amnesia during the first week and thus didn't remember. |
| 609 | ** He seems to know that he can't scan the first support reaper because he is a reaper. |
| 610 | ** That was a logical deduction, based on the fact that the Reaper was obviously involved in the Game but couldn't be scanned. He comes to this conclusion at the beginning of Shiki Day 2: |
| 611 | --->'''Neku:''' ? Hmph. |
| 612 | --->'''Shiki:''' What is it? |
| 613 | --->'''Neku:''' I can't read him. |
| 614 | --->'''Shiki:''' What!? You can't scan him? |
| 615 | --->'''Neku:''' (I had no trouble scanning people yesterday. Maybe the rules changed? Or maybe the pin is broken.) |
| 616 | --->'''Shiki:''' Can we finish the mission without being able to scan? |
| 617 | --->'''Neku:''' (Hmm... What if it's just him? Maybe he's special.) |
| 618 | --->'''Shiki:''' Neku! |
| 619 | --->'''Neku:''' (Ugh...) What now!? |
| 620 | --->'''Shiki:''' That guy is coming right towards us! |
| 621 | --->'''Reaper:''' You. Scan and erase all the Noise in this area. |
| 622 | --->'''Shiki:''' Huh? What are you talking about? |
| 623 | --->'''Neku:''' (Are those the conditions to move on?) |
| 624 | --->'''Shiki:''' I don't see any Noise! |
| 625 | --->'''Reaper:''' The world is more than just what you see. |
| 626 | --->'''Shiki:''' He left. What a creepy guy. |
| 627 | --->'''Neku:''' (I don't know what his deal is... But he's part of the Game, that's for sure. Which can only mean one thing. Interesting... His kind can't be scanned?) |
| 628 | ** Beat then confirms this when he attacks Neku and Shiki: |
| 629 | --->'''Beat:''' Shut up, yo! You ain't foolin' me! I can't scan you. You gotta be widdem! You can't outsmart me, yo. |
| 630 | |
| 631 | [[/folder]] |
| 632 | |
| 633 | [[folder:Character dissonance]] |
| 634 | |
| 635 | * Uh, this: |
| 636 | --> ''Out of battle Neku'': Shut up, go away. |
| 637 | --> ''In Battle Neku'': Be careful! |
| 638 | ** On the first day when Shiki tries to get Neku to help her fight the Noise, Neku tells her "Just... don't mess this up". If his partner were to get hurt or worse, Neku's chances of survival would be jeopardized. At least in the beginning, Neku telling his partner to "Be careful" in battle is out of his own self-interest. |
| 639 | ** Also, it's an 'angry' "Be careful!". In a "stop being an idiot and making me get hurt too" way. |
| 640 | |
| 641 | [[/folder]] |
| 642 | |
| 643 | [[folder:Season]] |
| 644 | |
| 645 | * What time of year does the game take place? Shibuya generally isn't cold enough for snow or whatever, so you can't rule out winter just by looking at the setting, and as a whole the characters' ImpossiblyCoolClothes aren't in line with any one season. Summer and winter threads are sold side-by-side in stores, and there are of course the Christmas and New Year's special items. Also, browsing thought fragments, some say things like "I'm spending all summer in a yukata" and others are people thinking about their plans for Christmas. |
| 646 | ** Christmas in July, clearly. Or they really like to plan ahead. |
| 647 | |
| 648 | [[/folder]] |
| 649 | |
| 650 | [[folder:Square root]] |
| 651 | |
| 652 | * How does Neku remember the square root of 3 to 8 digits off the top of his head like that? |
| 653 | ** Maybe The Composer put that square root of 3 in Neku's Head. |
| 654 | ** His cell phone has a calculator. |
| 655 | ** Or he could just, you know, be really freaking smart. |
| 656 | ** Probably: he's shown to be smart when he figures out most of the Game system in the early days of W1 (and gets annoyed that Shiki doesn't), and in that same scene he also immediately realizes that "Au" refers to gold. Plus, since Josh has been behaving as an InsufferableGenius, Neku seems to be deliberately trying to show off and rub it in his annoying partner's face - reading that scene as a smartpants catfight is hilarious. (However, strangely, Neku doesn't understand much of Minamimoto's speech... he does coin the "π-face" nickname though.) |
| 657 | ** I think some fan said Sho's insults are basically math nonsense. Hence why Neku doesn't understand all of it. As for Joshua figuring it right off the bat - well, he is a Composer, so he probably heard all of these "factoring hectopascals" many, many times. |
| 658 | ** Some school textbooks list it up to 10+ digits just for the sake of it, and some middle-schoolers (Neku is 15, right?) are really good at remembering random bits of trivia, especially the smart ones (see above) or autistic ones (he shows some subtle signs). |
| 659 | |
| 660 | [[/folder]] |
| 661 | |
| 662 | [[folder:Neku versus the Composer]] |
| 663 | |
| 664 | * So in the end, we have Neku versus the Composer. Neku gets the chance to shoot. He doesn't. The Composer lives, but luckily for Shibuya, he's changed his mind about destroying the whole place. But here's the thing: Beat's ''right there'' offscreen. He never even met Joshua before. He has an existing grudge against the Composer, and has openly stated that he wants to take the position by force. He has a hair-trigger temper and no self-control to speak of. He's probably levelled up enough to survive getting flipped in the air by a rhinoceros, never mind taking a bullet from the Composer's ordinary-looking pistol. Why doesn't he even try to kill the Composer? |
| 665 | ** Technically, he met Joshua during all those times he tried to beat up Neku during the second week. Not that the experience would change his actions. |
| 666 | ** Shiki and Beat were frozen by the Composer in a show of power before his and Neku's face-off, so Beat was physically incapable of taking a swing at the Composer. |
| 667 | ** Neku also talked about Joshua who he thought pulled a HeroicSacrifice for him with true sadness and regret when Beat asked about him on W3 D1, possibly proving Beat thought Joshua was somewhat decent considering Neku was his friend, thus concerned for his friend's friend, and that he didn't think ill of Joshua. Of course, even if all of this is disregarded, it [[CurbStompBattle wouldn't have mattered much anyway.]] |
| 668 | |
| 669 | [[/folder]] |
| 670 | |
| 671 | [[folder:Breaking the Player Pin]] |
| 672 | |
| 673 | * If you can just end a Player's game by breaking his Player Pin, without even needing to battle first... why doesn't anyone ever do that, aside from the one time it doesn't work? |
| 674 | ** Destroying the Player Pin doesn't end someone's game. Case in point 1: Joshua played without one, meaning that Player Pins are not needed for access to the Game. Case in point 2: Kitaniji's intention by breaking Neku's pin was to expose him to his imprinting, not to erase him. |
| 675 | ** Unfortunately, this does nothing to explain why he didn't try to break Beat's pin, which would have worked on him and left Neku unable to win the next battle. |
| 676 | ** We can safely assume that Beat didn't have a Red Skull Pin, so breaking his Player Pin still wouldn't expose him to Kitaniji's imprinting. Beat was partnered to Rhyme's pin and unable to participate in missions by [=W1D6=], when the Red Skull Pins were first introduced, and was no longer a Reaper when wearing an "O-Pin" became mandatory. He was probably never given one, or if he was, he wouldn't have had reason to keep it. |
| 677 | |
| 678 | [[/folder]] |
| 679 | |
| 680 | [[folder:Knowing Neku's name]] |
| 681 | |
| 682 | * Am I the only one who found it odd that Joshua calls Neku by his name in a cutscene, then a few seconds later, in the same cutscene, he says "I'll ask just for the sake of convenience. Do you have a name?" And Neku doesn't question this? |
| 683 | ** There are a few possibilities for this one, given the fact that Joshua's 'slip' never happened in the Japanese version. The first possibility is that it was a localization error that the quality checkers never picked up on, and so Neku didn't react because it never should have happened in the first place. The second is that the line was deliberately added by the localization team to reinforce that Joshua already knew who Neku was when they met, and Neku simply didn't catch on or mention it, for any number of reasons. |
| 684 | |
| 685 | [[/folder]] |
| 686 | |
| 687 | [[folder:Shielding and retreating]] |
| 688 | |
| 689 | * OK, so Josh shields Neku from Sho's Level ''i'' Flare so that Neku doesn't get harmed. However, the Secret Reports reveal that Josh actually retreated to the Another Day universe just before the blast hit. So if Josh wasn't actually there to take the hit, shouldn't it have kept going and erased Neku? |
| 690 | ** Joshua pushed Neku out of the way, and possibly used his own power to lessen the effects of the ''i'' Flare. Josh used Minamimoto's attack as an excuse to disappear, which is why he allowed himself to 'get hit' by it. |
| 691 | ** Also UnreliableNarrator. |
| 692 | ** Its called Level I flare. Level attacks in the Final Fantasy games only work on the applicable targets and have no effect on other targets. The I flare targets objects not meant to be there. It would not actually hurt Neku |
| 693 | ** Lv. Flare targets everything with a level divisible by the number. ''i'' is square root of -1. ''i'' times ''i'' = -1. -1 times -1 = 1. And ''every real number is divisible by one.'' At the same time, every imaginary number is divisible by ''i''. It's not that it hits everything that's not supposed to be there; it should hit ''everything''. I'm going with the the first guy's answer. |
| 694 | ** One of the rules of math is that real numbers aren't "divisible" by imaginary numbers. "Divisible" means you divide a non-negative integer by an integer, and get an integer. Imaginary numbers aren't integers at all. On the other hand, if everything in the UG is considered to be "imaginary," then you might have something. |
| 695 | ** (Warning: number theorist incoming.) The above is... a bit off base. The problem is essentially one of ill-defined domains. Divisibility doesn't really exist in a vacuum; it is only defined with respect to a specific structure, generally a ring. (Don't worry about the specifics of what a ring is if you don't already know; it's not strictly important to the rest of this.) Basically, divisibility with respect to a particular ring means that a number a is divisible by a number b if there is an element in the ring that you can multiply by b to get a. Usually when said without specification we assume that we're talking about integers with the usual addition and multiplication, which the above text is doing as well (though the non-negative bit is unnecessary). But we can talk about divisibility, say, with respect to the real numbers with the usual addition and multiplication. It's pretty trivial (which is why we don't usually do it) but any number is divisible by any other number except 0. Thus, any real value for a Level x Flare would be sufficient to target everything but by using a real-valued x one's default assumptions about divisibility might override and leave it confusing. Thus, Level ''i'' Flare. Yes, it is true that you can't divide by ''i'' in the ring of the reals with the usual addition and multiplication but that is not because you can't divide reals by ''i'' but rather because ''i'' is not part of that ring and thus the concept would make no sense at all. However, by invoking the Level ''i'' Flare it is absolutely clear that we are *not* dealing with this ring but rather, at a minimum, the ring of gaussian integers (basically, integers and integers times ''i'') under the usual multiplication and addition if not all of the complex numbers. Either way, ''i'' is a unit in this ring which means that everything is divisible by it and the original explanation of everything being divisible by ''i'' still holds. |
| 696 | ** Oh, that is a rule? Darn. I really thought I had something, since the explicit value of ''i'' squared is -1. |
| 697 | ** Well, you can't actually divide by imaginary numbers, but technically, you ''can'' find the answer to anything involving such a division. For instance, if you're dividing by ''i'', you multiply it by ''i''/''i'', the same as multiplying by one, to move the imaginary number to the numerator. If the denominator is (a + b''i''), then you multiply by (a - b''i'')/(a - b''i'') to make the denominator (a^2 - b^2). It's no longer dividing by an imaginary number, but the result is still the same. And the result is a fucking nuke. |
| 698 | ** Well, that's correct, but the answer still wouldn't be a real number. As it was said, Lv. Flare targets everything with a level divisible by the number. The answer should be a integer, or for example all levels will be divisible for Lv. 3 Flare. |
| 699 | ** Besides, if he truly intended to use a level that evenly divides everything, real and imaginary, what's wrong with 1? |
| 700 | ** He's Sho. He needs a reason for math jokes? |
| 701 | ** Level i Flare is a fan name. It was really just a really powerful attack, so Joshua just had to push Neku out of the way. |
| 702 | ** It's not a FanNickname, replay [=W2D7=]. |
| 703 | ----> '''Joshua:''' Look out! That psych’s a Lv.''i'' Flare! |
| 704 | ** Perhaps he wanted to be absolutely sure that Joshua and Neku' levels weren't somehow made to be ''i'', considering that Joshua's the Composer, and wanted an attack that could not be avoided. Notice that in ''Franchise/FinalFantasy'', most of the bosses' levels are prime numbers, meaning that L.3 Muddle, L.4 Flare and L.5 Death won't work. What's unclear is how large the effective radius is and how Neku managed to get thrown out of it. |
| 705 | ** Has EVERYBODY missed the pun? Souls are powered by IMAGINATION. Get it? Imaginary, imagination? Sure, they could have satisfied both worlds by saying ñ1, but they aren't targetting people in the RG, that's why it doesn't destroy Pork City. It only targets the imaginary people. |
| 706 | ** Their fight was on the roof of Pork City. Joshua pushes Neku ''off the building'' before the Flare goes off. The Game ends when the Game Master dies/gets defeated, so as soon as Sho wiped himself out with the attack, Neku was transported to Kitaniji. That's my two cents, anyway. |
| 707 | |
| 708 | [[/folder]] |
| 709 | |
| 710 | [[folder:"Reveal"]] |
| 711 | |
| 712 | * Only after playing this game twice did I realize that Beat and Rhyme being brother and sister was supposed to be a {{Reveal}}. Sure, it's not explicitly mentioned until the third week, but it seemed pretty freaking obvious. Not only do they have the same skull motif in their designs, but they both have [[PhenotypeStereotype blond hair and blue eyes. And it doesn't help that Beat's behavior screams BigBrotherInstinct from the very start.]] |
| 713 | ** I think it was handled rather realistically; it wasn't supposed to be TheReveal to the player, it was TheReveal to Neku. It speaks a bit towards Neku's character that he never picked up on it and that he was surprised to hear it, but I don't believe that that revelation was intended to a shock to the player. |
| 714 | ** I actually thought they were ''dating'', because of a discussion between Rhyme and Shiki in [=W1D4=]. |
| 715 | ** I agree. I've got blonde hair and grey eyes myself, but this does not mean I'm automatically related to everyone else who does. Besides, one of them could bleach/dye their hair and a lot of people have skull motifs on their clothes. |
| 716 | ** You have to remember that it's a [[LawOfConservationOfDetail video game]]. If there's two main characters who both have blond hair and blue eyes (especially in a game where the amount of different hair/eye colours is much higher than it is in real life), a similar skull motif and always hang out together, they're going to be related somehow. |
| 717 | ** By that same logic, Sota and Nao would have to be [[BrotherSisterIncest related]] [[KissingCousins somehow]]. |
| 718 | ** You say that but I genuinely did wonder if they were supposed to be dating or siblings at certain points because of their designs |
| 719 | |
| 720 | [[/folder]] |
| 721 | |
| 722 | [[folder:Kitaniji's plan]] |
| 723 | |
| 724 | * Kitaniji's entire mind control plan. Alright, I can see the whole red skull pin thing taking over a large chunk of Japan maybe, but what then? Speaking as a gamer in the US you honestly cannot rely on fads to spread something from Japan to the entire world, or really from everywhere, between issues with exporting, the fact that people in other countries likely won't be interested in some random silly pins that they've never seen before, and the ones that are are likely small pocket clusters. The entire thing is flawed and hinges too heavily on A) the things actually getting out of Japan, and B) spreading fast enough that no one in the RG notices the red eyed zombie people wearing them. |
| 725 | ** The Reapers' Game doesn't extend outside of Shibuya, and everywhere outside of Shibuya is without the Composer's and the Conductor's jurisdiction, and thus has nothing to do with the game. Kitaniji's plan was meant for Shibuya and Shibuya only; world domination was never his agenda. The Composer grew tired of the people of Shibuya and thought of them as irredeemable. As overlord of Shibuya he had the ability to destroy it, which he promised to do unless Kitaniji could find a way to redeem the people living there. Kitaniji's plan was to have everyone in Shibuya tuned to his wavelength, in order to convince the Composer that Shibuya was worth saving. He wasn't trying to achieve domination over people, he was trying to protect them. In case you didn't get that: ''Kitanaji is the good guy''. |
| 726 | ** Just extremely wrongdoing one. He was trying both. Kinda gone crazy from woe or something. |
| 727 | |
| 728 | [[/folder]] |
| 729 | |
| 730 | [[folder:Angels]] |
| 731 | |
| 732 | * My concerns about Mr. H. In the Secret Reports, it's clearly stated that Angels are just higher ranked Reaper, with particulary impressive talent and Imagination. That would mean that he was a Reaper one day, which implies he played the Game once. Furthermore, how the heck no one suspects him of being something out of the ordinary?! He's not a Reaper and posesses no Player Pin (even so if they assumed they didn't spot it, like Uzuki did in his first appearance, it would get suspicious in the second week or so), and being alive and seeing the UG (as it would've been for Josh) isn't quite enough for interacting with it, is it? Then, again, he is a shopkeeper of one of Shibuya's UG-friendly stores, which means he can be visited by Reapers also. How does no one see that there's something wrong with him?! |
| 733 | ** Mr Hanekoma was never a Reaper. The Secret Reports state that he is a native being to the plane of Angels, and thus has always been an Angel. Angels are above Reapers in Shibuya's hierarchy, but Angels are not Reapers and you don't need to be a Reaper to become an Angel. Mr. H only interacted with one Reaper over the course of the game, and that was due to a rule infringement. There are a lot of people in Shibuya; it stands to reason that nobody involved in the Game actually knows him or has met him besides the Composer. Although, Minamimoto does know his identity, because Mr. H taught him how to refine Taboo Noise, and Minamimoto later ransacked his café. |
| 734 | ** It is stated that he is natively of Higher Plane ("While the Producer is natively an entity from the Higher Plane, he can adjust the frequency of his vibe to visit the UG and lower planes"), but as natively as humans are from RG and Reapers from UG - their vibe is different, which doesn't mean they don't come from another plane, I think. Vibes should change while you change the type of your existence, shouldn't they? As for Angels being just higher ranked: "So, what happens to those who survive the week? Those Imagination is less than outstanding are broken down into Soul, while those with excellent Imagination become Reapers. The most talented of these may travel to the next plane, inhabited by Us Angels.". Yet, even if the Producer comes down from Higher Plane every so often for observational purposes, I'm still surprised why over the coure of two to three weeks nobody noticed that someone that isn't a Player nor Reaper interacts with things of the Game. A shopkeeper aware of Players outside the shop is quite new, isn't it? Yet no one investigated it. Even Neku starts to suspect something as late as in the third week. And he's met Mr.H quite often. |
| 735 | ** ''Why'' would he be investigated? None of the Reapers know who he is. [=WildKat=] is just a cover and doesn't get any customers besides Neku and Joshua, so really no one who would care would have had any reason to have even seen him before. Besides, the Producer doesn't actually interact with the Game. He carries out requests for the Composer and makes sure that the rules are being followed, but it's illegal for him to do anything that would impact the Game. That didn't stop him from doing it anyway, but he was never caught and no one would have had any reason to suspect him. |
| 736 | |
| 737 | [[/folder]] |
| 738 | |
| 739 | [[folder:Name of the game]] |
| 740 | |
| 741 | * Major FridgeLogic BrokenAesop moment here. The name of the game is ''The World Ends With You''. This is explained in one scene, and it basically comes down to "the world only exists as far as you perceive it; expand yourself and your world expands as well". The main goal of the game is to survive and bring yourself back to life (and later other people as well). One of the most memorable speeches is even "I thought you couldn't afford to lose. Give up on yourself, and you give up on the world." So, with all of this said, ''what the hell is up with all the self-sacrifice''? Agree with it or not, the whole idea of giving your life for the sake of others amounts to making sure the world is better for everyone else. But... the whole theme of the game is that your world only truly exists as far as you do. The purpose of The Game is to make yourself better and continue to hold onto life for as long as you can. And yet every instance of self-sacrifice is treated as noble, and even the guy who gave the latter speech takes part in it. (Well, except that he was clever enough to fake it.) This especially jars with the post-final boss scene, in which Neku would rather allow himself to die than harm the one he partnered with, despite everything he had done. He literally faces down the guy who told him not to give up on himself and, before his eyes, gives up on himself. And this is portrayed as the right thing to do. ''Which is it, game?'' |
| 742 | ** You're thinking about it too hard. The message is "enjoy life while it lasts by accepting and valuing others", not "stay alive and screw everyone else as long as you're enjoying your world". Not acting in a self-sacrificing manner would be ''contrary'' to the game's moral, because the game is about Neku's transformation from a closed, selfish person to an open-minded person who sees value in the lives of other people. He goes from being someone who would kill his own partner for personal gain to being someone who would rather be shot by his own friend than fire upon someone who had helped to open up his world. |
| 743 | ** Of course Neku should be more open and concerned about other people. Small personal sacrifices aren't bad, either. But consider some of the other scenes in the game. Eri was practically thinking of giving up on her fashion design future because she didn't think she could do it without Shiki there to bring her ideas to life... and Shiki had died. Beat beats himself up over trying to motivate Rhyme by talking about his personal (untrue) goals, because he ended up convincing her that he was someone worth dying for, costing her her own future. Do you understand? People should care about each other. People should be willing to trust each other. But you sure as hell shouldn't ''end your own world'' for them, and especially shouldn't be ''expected'' to. ''Live'' for other people, or at least with them. Don't ''die'' for them. (And just in case that wasn't enough, consider this little quirk. If Neku had given his life for ''anyone'' during the course of the main game, the Conductor would have won. Good thing he was "selfish" for so long, huh? |
| 744 | ** I agree; I don't think that people should be expected to be self-sacrificing or that dying for someone is some awesomely heroic thing, but the game doesn't necessarily share my morals. You do have a point, but realize that the only ones who really ''intended'' to die for anyone else could be considered aversions/subversions of the whole HeroicSacrifice schtick: Rhyme's actions weren't explicitly treated as noble by the other characters (IIRC), and they caused Hanekoma to break the rules, general chaos in the form of her desperate brother, and left her without what she treasured most, and Joshua's sacrifice was played off as noble but was actually completely fraudulent. I believe that for the most part the characters ''were'' living for each other. Even with Beat, who did a lot of sacrificing, we aren't given any indication that he was intentionally trying to give his own life for anyone else's, as opposed to simply trying to protect them without giving thought to the consequences. Until the very end, Neku never intended to die either--in fact he was quite tenaciously holding onto the prospect of staying alive. He still winds up putting himself into "heroic" or noble situations (like rescuing people from Taboo Noise), but he goes in with the assumption that he'll come out alive. When he finally did sacrifice himself, I interpreted it as more of an act of trust and friendship than him simply dying for someone else's sake. |
| 745 | ** Well the game did treat Beat's jumping in front of the car instead of pushing Rhyme out of the way as a very foolish action. |
| 746 | ** The part about Neku giving up on himself seemed to be in response to Neku having an OhCrap and losing hope in the face of Sho's Level ''i'' Flare. His losing in that case would have meant that Shiki would never return to the real world, and as is later revealed, would have enabled Kitaniji to proceed with Instrumentality (Neku might have been playing into Joshua's hands all along, but letting Kitaniji get away with that was never an option). In this case, Neku's survival and the survival of others are intertwined, and Neku's CharacterDevelopment happens as he starts fighting for others besides himself. |
| 747 | ** He wasn't clever enough to fake sacrifice as he can't be killed by Minamimoto, he was clever to pretend to be erased and go play Tin Pin. |
| 748 | ** Was there even a possibility to kill him off with a gun from what you see in the flashback? And well enjoying the moment and killing your friends are a little different things - I think here giving up meant killing because you MUST TRUST YOUR PARTNER. |
| 749 | ** I guess the problem is that it feels foolish to trust a partner who is not only announcing his intent to eliminate Shibuya entirely, but has just admitted that he had been using Neku the whole time toward that end, including murdering him in cold blood. Who is currently pointing a gun at him, and stating in no uncertain terms that one has to shoot the other dead. And the reasoning behind Neku's choice being no more than "you need to trust your partner". Then comparing the situation to every single FaceHeelTurn and TheMole in fiction to date. And even disregarding those, there's an implication that anyone who has ever spoken about trust, seriously or otherwise, is incapable of committing a terrible act to suit his own ends. All in all, Neku's reaction would be considered WrongGenreSavvy in pretty much every other work with a similar scene, and it's bothersome to think that it's being presented as the correct thing to do in a game that does little to hide its goal of teaching players to follow its example. |
| 750 | ** You're coming at it too literally. It's an admonition against solipsism ('don't make ''your'' world just you'), not for it ('the ''whole world'' ends when you do'). |
| 751 | |
| 752 | [[/folder]] |
| 753 | |
| 754 | [[folder:Higashizawa and Shiki]] |
| 755 | |
| 756 | * What's with Higashizawa and Shiki's envy? Why is it so important to him? Maybe all of the [[HurricaneOfPuns food dialogue]] is throwing me off, but I get the strong impression that he wants to [[IAmAHumanitarian eat her]] because of it. He calls it "delicious" and his "secret spice", and without it she is "stale". He also intends to "whip up a toothsome meal" out of her. Are character flaws some kind of Reaper delicacy? Why don't any of the other Reapers seem to relish Players' entry fees? |
| 757 | ** Maybe like Sho's math fetish it's just his way of being insane. He could be a sadist and loves watching the players suffer without their most precious thing. For all we know he was just as interested in the other players flaws, but seeing as they were not the protagonist and they didn't live past day four or so he got obsessed with the only person left. |
| 758 | ** Or, because it's the only entry fee (we know of) that's a strong negative emotion. Just like how Yellow Noise is attracted by strong negative emotions (see: the Mina and Ai plot), Noise and by extension Reapers may feed off the negative energy, which is why Higashizawa wants it so much, especially with his culinary fetish. |
| 759 | ** Higashizawa's objective was 100% Erasure. Erasing a Player suffering from a HeroicBSOD would be very easy, wouldn't you say? |
| 760 | |
| 761 | [[/folder]] |
| 762 | |
| 763 | [[folder:TK in RG]] |
| 764 | |
| 765 | * You can use some pins outside of the battle, and you're visible in shops with tag graffities in front of them. Well, do the math'' - psychokinesis in the RG''. Plus, if Neku is invisible inside shops without graffiti, why doesn't he just steal all the items he needs in those stores? |
| 766 | ** Stores selling anything Neku would need would probably have the graffiti on them. Pins are probably only sold in stores with the graffiti. All the food in the game is probably [[AWizardDidIt magic]], and any food sold in a shop without the graffiti wouldn't have any helpful properties. Plus, floating merchandise-big trouble. |
| 767 | ** Also about psychokinesis pin - we can see that ''any'' object can be lifted up by this pin. Even ''people''... Yes, I'm talking about ''flying'' with the help of the psychokinesis pin. Just think about how much things could've been done - flying above the "walls" created by Support Reapers (Those "walls" can't be absolutely endless), or fighting with flying bosses, or jumping from the highest building in city and staying unscatched (Bonus points, if you fake your death while screwing around with your partner or escaping from Reaper, who tries to kill you), or - damn - you can get ass of yours "higher than heaven"! No wings, no shit, just psychokinesis pin. And, yes, I'm not forgetting about time limit for these pin, but - who cares? |
| 768 | ** Please do specify which pins Neku can actually use outside the battle. The Player pin is for mind-reading or imprinting. When you play Tin Pin using pins, they unleash whammies, not phyches. And things from UG don't interact with things from RG. For once, Neku in UG is most likely to run through RG people, not bumps into them - same thing, he is most likely to be unable to grab any RG object. The only valid point of interaction between UG and RG was Reaper Creeper, where you got to move a small coin (it wasn't hard, given that you ''could'' move it fast - which made the divination invalid). But Reaper Creeper uses a special sort of paper - or maybe you can chalk "yes", "no" and "neither" symbols on the ground - which I sorta assumed creates a special mini-field that allows UG people to move the coin. |
| 769 | ** Well, for the walls, they wouldn't have to be endless - Shibuya could just have a "ceiling" made of the same stuff. |
| 770 | ** Two things i should say here: One, according to the secret reports, the Reaper Creeper paper has "modulating paralogos" that actually create those mini-fields, and was actually created for that purpose. Two, there are in fact pins you can use outside of battle, storyline-wise. The only example we're told of, though, is Psychokinesis, which could've been the one Neku used to force choke Shiki. |
| 771 | ** The only way for a player to use pins is said ingame to be tuned with your partner. Without a partner you're nothing whatever pins you have and be you as greatly talented as jack-of-all-psychs Neku. And with a partner you do get to it only in battles, where Noises take you (though you're choosing to attack, they're flying to you, and conversations assume that Reapers make Noise, and Noise can attack Players, but that would be pretty annoying ingame if all the time...) in some two-frequencies-at-once-world in which you cannot make a way by yourself, as you cannot be both in UG and in RG. The Player Pin is clearly special, as it does some things for you, though it's interesting why you Player should be able to read the minds of people at all like some higher being now, but you can quess it, like to find out a destination or the whole strange imprinting stuff. Or have fun. Or just for the sake of flashbacks. |
| 772 | |
| 773 | [[/folder]] |
| 774 | |
| 775 | [[folder:Length of the game]] |
| 776 | |
| 777 | * Kitaniji's game with Joshua lasted 30 days. The Reaper's Game covers 21 days, and Uzuki and Kariya mention that it's unusual for a game to go on that length of time, so we know that there wasn't another game the previous week. What happened during the previous nine days? |
| 778 | ** The real answer is that Kitaniji and Joshua sat twiddling their thumbs for nine days before starting the Reapers' Game, so that it would [[RuleOfDrama climax]] on Kitaniji's last day. The {{handwave}} answer is that those nine days account for the preparation time that Game would have required. We know that Reapers' Games aren't run weekly, which hints that they take at least a few days to organize. That's to say nothing of the fact that a Reapers' Game run without the Composer's supervision was unheard-of, so it probably would have taken even longer to plan. That nine days also gives time enough for Kitaniji to cook up an elaborate plan to save Shibuya and select his first Game Master and for Joshua to find a suitable proxy while dodging Minamimoto's assassination attempts. |
| 779 | ** Do the games necessarily have to have been on consecutive days (for example, [=W2D1=] is the day after [=W1D7=], and [=W3D1=] is the day after [=W2D7=])? If there were a few days between the games, it might have been to allow the Red Skull pins to get more popular. |
| 780 | ** Uzuki specifically states the three Games are right after each other. |
| 781 | |
| 782 | [[/folder]] |
| 783 | |
| 784 | [[folder:Timer]] |
| 785 | |
| 786 | * So, the timer for a day's mission appears on your right hand, right? What if someone were to die and not have a right hand? Would the timer appear on their left hand? What, then, would happen if they had ''no hands?'' Would the Composer or someone give them a few hands and say "Ok, you go have fun now."? |
| 787 | ** The cell phone has the time limit for the mission, and presumably has the time, so the Players can know how long they have to accomplish it. |
| 788 | ** The odds of a person lacking both hands is infinitesimal. The odds of this person being young enough to have the required stamina, agility, and imagination to even be considered for the Reaper's Game is bordering on impossible. On the impossible-to-the-nth-power chance that they are thrown into the game, they likely wouldn't last long since they lack hands to put on pins. Actually, they'd be erased before they even read the mission mail and got the timer because they lack the hands to hold a cell phone. My point is that this doesn't really bug you; you're just trying to stump us. |
| 789 | ** Beat and Rhyme, as well as Shiki iirc, were killed when hit by a car - I think it's safe to assume their bodies weren't in perfect condition at that point. Get some perspective. |
| 790 | |
| 791 | [[/folder]] |
| 792 | |
| 793 | [[folder:Dismembered or otherwise damaged]] |
| 794 | |
| 795 | * What happens if a player is dismembered or incinerated while dying? Would their body be restored for the game, and how would they possibly come back to life (or are they automatically ineligible by that)? Neku got shot, so his body's mostly intact, and while Shiki, Rhyme and Beat died in car accidents, we're not sure how much damage they suffered. |
| 796 | ** My personal theory is that the Composer retcons the Players' deaths. Essentially he manipulates reality so the Player never died at all. |
| 797 | ** Elaborating on the above, the Secret Reports mention that the Game's outcome resulted in Shibuya shifting into an "optimal parallel world" and being "born anew", which also implies that the Players were resurrected into a Shibuya where their deaths never happened. |
| 798 | ** It doesn't imply that at all. The very same entry opens with a discussion on how it's the same Shibuya "metamorphosed." |
| 799 | ** No reason it can't be both. |
| 800 | ** Do you think Neku plays game with a hole in him and doesn't get to understand it all until told? And the car-crashed kids doesn't seems off enough to him? I don't think the Composer chooses based on how preserved the body is. The death is treated like you lose a shape, but if having cool soul, can take another shape, and people ingame struggle for their familiar shape. |
| 801 | |
| 802 | [[/folder]] |
| 803 | |
| 804 | [[folder:That time]] |
| 805 | |
| 806 | * Why does Neku say, "I feel like crap. This is just like that time... Wait, what time? Dammit... I can't remember." after Rhyme gets erased? He lost his memory, what was he trying to recall? |
| 807 | ** It's revealed in Another Day that Neku had a friend who died and he feels responsible for it. Neku's entire attitude at the beginning of the game is presumably due to his inability to cope with that, and it affected him so powerfully that Rhyme's erasure struck a chord with him even though he couldn't remember it. |
| 808 | |
| 809 | [[/folder]] |
| 810 | |
| 811 | [[folder:Another Day]] |
| 812 | |
| 813 | * In what plane does Another Day take place? The RG? The UG? Why does Shiki still look like Eri? How is Joshua able to challenge Neku to the Final Time Attack? I suppose there's GameplayAndStorySegregation, but I would like to know if there are any possible explanations for what happens in Another Day. |
| 814 | ** Real Ground. Officially, according to Joshua, Another!Shiki looks like Eri because that's how Neku expects her to look and/or the makers felt creating new graphics for her real body wasn't worth the time. [[WMG/TheWorldEndsWithYou Unoffically,]] that is Another!Eri not Shiki. Joshua can challenge Neku to Final Time Attack he's the [[AWizardDidIt composer]]. |
| 815 | |
| 816 | [[/folder]] |
| 817 | |
| 818 | [[folder:Using living people]] |
| 819 | |
| 820 | * It's mostly a dramatic handwave in the game, but it's hard to believe that using the existence of living persons or Players as an entry fee can qualify as even borderline legality. The message presented by such actions is that your right to fight for your own survival can be revoked through no action of your own, and that individual living people can be removed from existence without even a token act of murder. In that case, why even have a Game? |
| 821 | ** No person was legally taken as an entry fee, and so far as we are shown it can't be done -- given that Rhyme was what Beat treasured most, but it was only her memory that was taken and not her self, we can assume that pains are taken ''not'' to take people as entry fees. Shiki was removed from the Game (but not from existence) under the guise of being Neku's second entry fee because Kitaniji could not return her to the RG, and since Neku was the only surviving Player of Week 2, we can't say that anyone's existence was tampered with for his next entry fee. In addition, the Reapers' Game that we see Neku play is exceptional and not representative of how the Reapers' Game is normally run; the Composer was absent, meaning that if anyone ''had'' been taken as an entry fee, it would have been technically legal because all of the rules of the UG were temporarily invalidated. |
| 822 | ** In Rhyme's case, what Beat valued most about her was the fact that she never gave up on him, unlike their parents, and he was thus very unpleasantly surprised to find out that she didn't remember him. Neku does value Shiki quite a bit as a person, especially when he notes that she deserves to go back more than he does (especially given her desire to meet with Eri again); perhaps Neku would have suspected something if he wasn't as close to Shiki at the end of the first week. |
| 823 | |
| 824 | [[/folder]] |
| 825 | |
| 826 | [[folder:Neku's necklace thing]] |
| 827 | |
| 828 | * What is that thing hanging around Neku's neck? Is it part of his headphones? |
| 829 | ** One would assume that it's his [=MP3=] player, but a popular joke seems to be that it's his 'lucky tampon'. |
| 830 | *** Sequel confirms that it's indeed an [=MP3=] player. |
| 831 | [[/folder]] |
| 832 | |
| 833 | [[folder:Erasing Shibuya]] |
| 834 | |
| 835 | * What in blazes was Josh thinking when/if he wanted to erase Shibuya? [[SurprisinglyRealisticOutcome Wouldn't the RG realize an entire city just disappeared?]] |
| 836 | ** Noticing a whole district of Tokyo being obliterated by the hand of God would actually help to shake people out of their complacency, which was the reason he wanted to scrap it anyway. Not like he had any particular reason to care what the rest of the world thought, though, since his domain is Shibuya and Shibuya only. |
| 837 | ** As an alternative answer, it could be that it isn't Shibuya's physical existence he's erasing - remember, the Game is about [[AnatomyOfTheSoul Soul and Imagination]]. He already thinks that's fading, or he wouldn't be threatening this in the first place; [[CreativeSterility wiping it out completely]] would probably be as good as destroying it in his eyes. Whether this would completely crush the creativity of everyone there or just cause all the people with the talent or the potential for it (and thus all the suitable candidates for the Game) to leave is an open question. |
| 838 | ** Makes you wonder what people thought when Shinjuku was erased. |
| 839 | ** It would become RetGone, with the only people remembering it being the ones not in RG during the erasure (though we would wipe his UG too), if Shinjuku is any indication. |
| 840 | [[/folder]] |
| 841 | |
| 842 | [[folder:Fallen Angel]] |
| 843 | |
| 844 | * What exactly is a Fallen Angel? Judging by the ending, Mr. Hanekoma still seems to be the Producer. As Joshua probably doesn't know about Hanekoma's true involvement, he shouldn't know about the Fallen Angel business, so there seems to be no actual reprecussions to being a Fallen Angel. However, Mr. Hanekoma also mentions that he'll be reported on sight in Another Day, but if he is already known among Angels to be Fallen, then what is there to report him for? Or is he on the run? Then can't the Angels just get someone to replace him as the Producer? Does Mr. Hanekoma still rightfully have the job? |
| 845 | ** The relationship between Angels and the Game isn't really elaborated on. IIRC the secret reports play the other Angels off as spectators and the Producer works ''under'' the Composer, so it was always my assumption that the Angels didn't have any influence over Mr Hanekoma being the Producer. Mr H's presence in the ending is probably just because Joshua likes keeping him around, regardless of whether he knows about what he did (though the secret reports ''do'' mention that he's clairvoyant). But presumably he'll be punished for the Taboo business if any other Angels find him, what with him actively avoiding the Angel in AD. That does still leave the question of what happens to the position of Producer if Hanekoma gets caught, but the game doesn't provide us with enough information to do anything but guess. |
| 846 | |
| 847 | [[/folder]] |
| 848 | |
| 849 | [[folder:Rhyme and her brother]] |
| 850 | |
| 851 | * How does Rhyme manage to remember that she has a brother, has concrete memories of him giving her a pendant, and yet doesn't remember Beat at all? |
| 852 | ** Beat's entry fee was her memories of ''him'', [[ExactWords not the memories of her brother.]] It's likely that she remembers her brother perfectly, but doesn't remember that he was Beat. |
| 853 | ** So, she has memories of interactions between her and her brother, but all the personality is wiped out. He's essentially a blank slate in her mind. I can see that. |
| 854 | |
| 855 | [[/folder]] |
| 856 | |
| 857 | [[folder:Beat's hand]] |
| 858 | |
| 859 | * What's with Beat's hand often being on his shoulder? |
| 860 | ** Not sure if it's actually what he's doing since it's not animated, but it always reminded me of how a typical 'tough guy' in media puts his hand on his shoulder and rolls it to loosen the muscles, making him look like he's about to fight. Considering Beat's personality it'd fit quite well. |
| 861 | ** At the end of battle, Beat's sprite does exactly that. |
| 862 | |
| 863 | [[/folder]] |
| 864 | |
| 865 | [[folder:Rhyme crossing the street]] |
| 866 | |
| 867 | * Rhyme's a smart kid, why the heck would she cross the street when it wasn't safe? I wouldn't say that it was a case of careless driving, it seemed normal to me. |
| 868 | ** I'd like to think that she trip over and couldn't get up before she get Runover with Beat. |
| 869 | |
| 870 | [[/folder]] |
| 871 | |
| 872 | [[folder:Recruiting Reapers]] |
| 873 | |
| 874 | * It's a pretty inefficient system if the only time a new Reaper can be recruited is after a powerful and established Reaper has been killed. |
| 875 | ** There's a theory going around that Players on Day 7 don't actually have to ''erase'' the GM, just ''defeat'' them. Higashizawa chose to fight to the death because he didn't want to let anyone survive, Minamimoto was set up and Konishi was erased out of the player characters' UnstoppableRage. |
| 876 | ** I like that theory, but there exists counterevidence. One of the Secret Reports discusses the Reaper "career track" from grunt to officer to Composer, then points out that most Reapers end up being erased by Players before they get that far. This raises a new question: how? Prior to the third week's emergency call, only two Reapers had been erased. Both were [=GMs=]. Before that call, Beat was the only Reaper who physically attacked the Players, and Uzuki never acted like her life was at risk when she sicked Noise on them. Do these calls happen more often than we think? Do they count it as "erased by Players" when Reapers fail to get enough points to survive? |
| 877 | ** Well, Reapers can attack Players directly on Day 7 under any circumstances. The ones we see in-game are mostly just sensible. Previous games might have seen the GM order his subordinates to attack Players on Day 7 as part of the Game, or the Day 7 mission might not always have to be "defeat the Game Master." |
| 878 | ** Actually, as Uzuki tells us in Week 2, Reapers can't attack directly until Day 7, and even then, ''Only the Game Master'' can do that. Even Harriers can only attack by summoning Noise. The GM is the only one who is allowed to go all OneWingedAngel on the Players. |
| 879 | ** I think that the reason most reapers get erased is because they're support reapers. You see only two Harriers, but a ton of support reapers. Reapers need to erase players to raise their score, which represents their lifespan. Wall Reapers are limited to being BrokenBridge keepers. I'd assume a Support Reaper has a much lower score than a Harrier Reaper. And even though they sometimes force players to fight noise (which has a chance of erasing them, maybe.) Asking players to show up wearing Natural Puppy threads isn't exactly a good way to raise your score... |
| 880 | ** Unless you're given extra JerkAss points, that is. |
| 881 | ** I always thought Support Reapers gained points in some other fashion. |
| 882 | ** My pet theory holds while Harriers and Wall Reapers are bound to the hands-off-the-Players-unless-you're-GM rule, they can and do get around it via some {{Exact Words}}/{{Loophole Abuse}}. Reapers aren't allowed to attack Players; however, if the Players were to attack ''first'', that makes it ''self-defense'', and they can therefore not be punished for it. This just happens to have the side-effect that not all Reapers survive. |
| 883 | ** If that's true, then there must be some ridiculously strong players slaughtering the Support Reapers off-screen, for most of them to not survive that long. Heck, YOU spend a lot of your time doing this in the third week; they probably had a lot of "help wanted" signs out around the UG after the events of the game... |
| 884 | ** Plus, imagine you're on the fast track to Conductordom. Would you take your chances with eliminating all of the Players, or would you give up and let 'em win if they beat you bad enough? If you picked the second answer, you're clearly smarter than Higashizawa. |
| 885 | ** Higashizawa was told to "leave no player unerased", presumably as part of Kitaniji's plan to take out Joshua's proxy, as a condition for finalizing his promotion to officer (he's presumably on the same part of the career track as Kariya, and a little past Uzuki). |
| 886 | |
| 887 | [[/folder]] |
| 888 | |
| 889 | [[folder:The Producer]] |
| 890 | |
| 891 | * Why does the Producer help Minamimoto and leave the fate of Shibuya to him, knowing he's just not enough to take down the Composer? Producer's the guy whose job is to report on the Composer, keep an eye on him and talk to him. He's got way back with Josh and he really should know what he's capable of. Seriously... so Joshua, presumably still being in his RG form, as Neku never sees him in some other (yes-yes, it's all in his head and other forms ain't really worth it for developers) and he plays Tin Pin with people, thus maybe still being in some restrainment, as he can't move from the other world himself while it's written like he's gone there himself, and he did make a deal of being downtuned for the game time, returns and just flies by the guy with all his revived power ups, not sweating at all! The party doesn't even hear any sounds of battle or argument within the echoing sewer! Well, they have a confusing battle of their own, okay, and Shiki is released right after Konishi is defeated, so it goes simultaneously... but pretty fast. Joshua doesn't even feel the need to kill him, having fun with his body instead, but he's spaced out good. I assume the Composer should know the difference between dead and not dead, if we are not to speculate the scene was just a show off and he vanishes the second we leave the screen or stays as a sadistic decor. The show off is actually nice not only as a karmic punishment, but how thoughtful you're given a solid hint on who's ahead, because Joshua surely has a way to do them heaps fast. How the hell, is my question, Minamimoto was supposed to win? Maybe if Hanekoma directly assisted him - but he wouldn't do so direct, would he? His power, probably, could manage Joshua, as he's a natural born higher being and needs to give Joshua a ride. And is a frigging ultimate boss, but he goes and picks himself a proxy too. It's a pity we'll never know how powerful Joshua is in his full, and who's stronger, Angel or Composer, though it's possible that their powers just differ and a loss of such battle in spite of presence of all other battles means that no, we can't defeat the Composer, making all this Minamimoto thing even stranger, though Hanekoma too does not fight himself I think, still having a boss noise individual and suitable name, and finds a proxy, so is he more than the Composer in a way the Composer more than the Conductor? But I don't actually think so, as his goal is not a fair play, there ain't one in backstabbing, but keeping Shibuya at any cost and he, I guess by report, have already gone as far off as angel goes, so if he could, wouldn't he try himself istead of dragging some pretty weak Pi-Face only for him to be outright defeated? Anyway. Hanekoma doesn't intervene in any of the ending stuff before Neku gets shot, and I doubt that's 'cause he knew all along Joshua's not going to destroy Shibuya anymore, as Joshua hasn't been watching progress all the last week and probably decided on Shibuya after the stand-off, and Hanekoma writes of hoping for Minamimoto and Neku just before he's getting Joshua back, already after contacting him. So, if Josh after getting rid of Neku starts to destroy Shibuya, Hanekoma refreshes Minamimoto and he saves the day? I can't get it! Is there some easy answer just I can't see if not it all being a videogame? And H's fall is a strange matter too. Any other angel would know his wrongdoing right away, but only by looking him in the face? Then he never now would go talk to any angel anymore and never would go to their realm, but from above or from other cities they won't notice and never come or call him? And why Minamimoto wants to be the Composer, anyway? To escape corporate meetings? |
| 892 | ** Gosh I can't believe I just read all that, it was so long. Uh, I'll try to answer what I think was your question? I assumed that Mr. H never really thought that Minamimoto would win against the Composer, but rather hoped that he would be enough of a distraction that Josh wouldn't be able to focus fully on his and Kitaniji's bet/evil plan/whatever. Mr. H couldn't outright oppose Josh, so throughout the game he's basically just taking small hidden measures to trip him up. I don't think Mr. H had any idea how the ending would turn out, but was hoping the chaos he was throwing into the equation would give Shibuya a chance. |
| 893 | |
| 894 | [[/folder]] |
| 895 | |
| 896 | [[folder:Neku's fee at the end]] |
| 897 | |
| 898 | * What was the fee for Joshua's and Neku's game/duel? And did Neku forever lose it? |
| 899 | ** They never actually tell you, but it probably wasn't anything important, considering how content Neku is in the end. It was most likely something silly or insignificant, and Joshua was just using it as an excuse to play one more game with Neku. |
| 900 | ** It's also possible that Joshua lied to Neku and didn't take an entry fee for that duel, as explained in WMG (CTRL+F "Neku's fourth Game did not exist"). |
| 901 | ** Another possibility is that it was Neku's trust in Joshua, and having already taken it was referring to having revealed himself as the true villain after Neku had come to see him as a martyr. Alternatively, Joshua was the player and that, having a friend who trusted him, was ''his'' entry fee. |
| 902 | ** Problem with that is that Neku outright states that he trusts Joshua in his speech at the end of the game, even if he doesn't forgive him |
| 903 | |
| 904 | [[/folder]] |
| 905 | |
| 906 | [[folder:Can guns]] |
| 907 | |
| 908 | * What is with that can looking thing that was attached to the barrels on all the guns we see in the game? |
| 909 | ** The guns used in the game appear to be stylized versions of pepperbox revolvers. [[http://www.gunsforsale.co.uk/image_bank/97X0S9W120213_1.jpg They're real guns]], and [[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Pepperbox_Lefaucheux_tula.JPG they really do look that silly]]. The "can-looking thing" is the cylinder, which essentially ''is'' the barrel on these guns. |
| 910 | |
| 911 | [[/folder]] |
| 912 | |
| 913 | [[folder:Uzuki on hard mode]] |
| 914 | |
| 915 | * When you fight Uzuki on hard mode and above, she can drop a pin entitled The Eyes Have It. I looked at the description, and it stated it's worn by female reapers to win another's heart. I found that description fair enough, but...why does Uzuki drop that pin? Whose heart does she want to win? |
| 916 | ** Possibly Kariya, possibly some random Shibuya dude Neku's crew never meets, possibly she just wants a boyfriend, period. |
| 917 | ** Fair enough explanation, but still. It struck me as odd because Uzuki never hinted that she had this motive, save for one vague comment towards Kariya. Whereas Kariya drops a pin related to laziness, this pin seemed to come out of nowhere. |
| 918 | |
| 919 | [[/folder]] |
| 920 | |
| 921 | [[folder:Level cap]] |
| 922 | |
| 923 | * The level caps at star. Why do you need to be protected from level ''i'' flare if you're at max level? It wouldn't target you. |
| 924 | ** I have one of two theories: either "Level ''i'' flare" is just a name, and doesn't actually function like other Level flares, or that, since ''i'' doesn't really exist as a number to begin with, it can target stuff that's not really a number either. |
| 925 | ** The second one doesn't really work: ''i'' totally exists as a number, just not as what is mathematically termed a "real number." |
| 926 | ** Well, there's also the fact to consider that there's no real feasible way for you to be max level at that point in the story. |
| 927 | ** Since the jelly pins are easily farmable on Week 2 Day 4 right after you can obtain the bigger wallet I took that as an invite to get the only items that I was missing (Pegasus brand) and it actually doesn't take that long to reach max level, the problem was that after having reached it grinding only for money feels more like a waste of time. But I don't think I was the only one assuming that most people stop after reaching the level cap and buying one or two items instead of trying to buy everything so it's entirely possible. And why wouldn't I since most items were for Joshua and the manual spoils about Beat. And I guess the star is just to confirm the max level, but it's still 100. I still wonder what would Josh's actual level be but that spell presumably hits anything, maybe even SOME other planes so I guess it wouldn't save him even at level 10000 even if the bigger hp cap would help, but 100 would never be enough. |
| 928 | * Speaking mathematically, we only use letters to represent variables (with XYZ being the most common) for no real reason other then because thats how we do things. A star could totally be represented of an number and thusly since Level i flare hits all numbers known and unknown it would hit it too. |
| 929 | [[/folder]] |
| 930 | |
| 931 | [[folder:Superboss]] |
| 932 | |
| 933 | * In Another Day, you can meet Hanekoma on the final floor of Pork City and battle him as a superboss. The dialogue before the fight with him notes that he came to the top of Pork City to check something, which is evidently a noise symbol. What exactly is the Noise Symbol doing there? Why is it visible in the RG? When Hanekoma mentions that it is "visible in this world too", is he referring to it being in the RG or it being in Another Day? And, most importantly, why is the Noise Symbol so important that he spent time in Another Day, during which he easily could have run into the alternate version of himself or any other Angel, just to check and see that it was there? |
| 934 | ** Hanekoma's primarily in the Another Day universe to recover main game Joshua - but he's probably checking the spiritual health of Another Day Shibuya while he's there (with the Noise symbol indicating the presence of Noise). Given that the Another Day Noise are of ''particular'' strength compared to those in main game Shibuya— and Noise can demonstrably possess people and cause trouble if left unattended— there's some reason to be concerned. |
| 935 | |
| 936 | [[/folder]] |
| 937 | |
| 938 | [[folder:Neku's name]] |
| 939 | |
| 940 | * Why does Neku remember his name in the first week? IIRC his entry fee was the memories of who he was AKA his identity. Wouldn't his own name be one of the biggest things to give him an identity? |
| 941 | ** They probably decided to leave that to avoid confusion. The purpose of the entry fee is to make the Player reevaluate their life, not confuse the heck out of them. |
| 942 | |
| 943 | [[/folder]] |
| 944 | |
| 945 | [[folder:What happens when you get erased?]] |
| 946 | |
| 947 | * I apologize if this has been asked previously but I did not see anyone else mention it. What exactly happens to players and Reapers when they get erased? Do they get literally erased from existence, like their souls don't exist anymore? Or is getting erased more like permanent death, where they don't have the chance to come back to life anymore and their souls go to the afterlife or get reborn or whatever you believe happens after you die? |
| 948 | ** Can't recall when this is mentioned in game, but when someone is erased in the UG, their "essence" (can't remember if it has an actual name either) or whatever their bodies are made of is broken up and dispersed into the UG. This essence stays like that until it is usually reformed into Noise, either by accident or by a Reaper. This is also how Beat was able to save Rhyme. He gathered up her essence before it could disperse too far away and made a Noise pin that contained all of Rhyme's essence. |
| 949 | ** It's mentioned in the Secret Reports - an erased person's Soul stays dispersed until reformed (into some form, not just Noise - the Composer performs resurrection by putting the Soul back into its original form), or eaten by wandering Noise. |
| 950 | |
| 951 | [[/folder]] |
| 952 | |
| 953 | [[folder:The entry fee is 'what you value most', so...]] |
| 954 | |
| 955 | * ...What happens if what you value most is your Imagination? It would be pointless to take as an entry fee the very thing the Player needs to play the game, and even if most Reapers would be happy to have the easy kill, it seems unlikely that the Composers would want the Players to automatically fail the test they're setting up. |
| 956 | ** Rhyme's entry fee was her dreams, and Neku's first entry fee was his memories (which are traits that basically define them and are directly related to "Imagination" at least in Rhyme's case). My guess is that "Imagination" is a power that allows people to get through life even at their lowest, hence why there's an entry fee to be able to play the game to begin with; Players CAN have something related to their Imagination as an entry fee, but they won't have their Imagination AS their entry fee because the game would be pointless. |
| 957 | ** Aphantasia. |
| 958 | ** Quick and painful death during the first encounter with the Noise. |
| 959 | [[/folder]] |
| 960 | |
| 961 | [[folder:Why don't you just erase him?]] |
| 962 | |
| 963 | * Why didn't Kitaniji erase Neku at the end of Week 2? He states himself that the proper penalty for Neku's actions is erasure, yet stays his hand, and then proceeds to throw him into an UnwinnableByDesign situation which would have been an erasure sentence anyway if not for Beat's intervention. It's possible that one of the rules of his game with the Composer was not to erase Neku directly, but he has no problem doing that on [=W3D7=]. And there's nothing to be gained by not erasing Neku - erasing the proxy is practically an InstantWinCondition for him, and Neku's role as the proxy should be blatantly obvious to anyone who knows about the Game between Joshua and Kitaniji at this point. The only way that Neku helps Kitaniji's plans is indirectly, by giving him a convenient excuse to hand out more O-pins - and surely he could have found any number of excuses for that. Heck, couldn't he have just given them to the Reapers back when the Taboo Noise appeared, or when Minamimoto went rogue? |
| 964 | ** It wouldn't make sense to direcly erase him due to his bet with the Composer (if he just "erased Neku" without him being able to prove his "worth", Joshua would have been pissed off at him and would have him and Shibuya erased). Also, he seems to be truly loyal to Joshua despite his differences, so Joshua was probably able to smooth things over with him offscreen ("Don't directly erase Neku because it was my fault since I technically forced him into a contract with me and commanded him around, but in exchange make the game Unwinnable by design to both pubish him and still be able to test his Imagination). As for W3D7, he probably freaked out when he realized he was about to lose and took the "Sore Loser" approach. |
| 965 | ** Kitanji was lying; he said he was going to punish Neku for being an accomplice to Joshua, but Joshua did not actually break any rules, or at least not in the way Kitanji said he did; the thing about him being alive and breaking into the game from the RG was not true. It was likely just an excuse to not resurrect Neku, similar to the whole "only Shiki gets to come back but I'm also taking her as your entry fee" thing from the end of week 1 (the Conductor is not allowed to resurrect players). As for whether Kitanji was allowed to erase Neku overall; very likely not, and the terms between him and the Composer possibly stated that everything had to take place through the Reapers' Game, but by the end of week 3 things were so broken that he decided to step in directly, perhaps even with permission (let's not forget, Beat and Neku were trying to dethrone the Composer at that point, they weren't trying to beat the game anymore; they ended up fighting the GM only because she stood in their way). |
| 966 | |
| 967 | [[/folder]] |
| 968 | |
| 969 | [[folder:Players being seen by friends/family]] |
| 970 | |
| 971 | * Say Beat and Rhyme were to walk into a store like, I don’t know, Ramen Dom, and the their parents were to walk in and see an ‘alive’ Beat and Rhyme. What would happen? |
| 972 | [[/folder]] |
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