Line #37 Headscratchers/TheFugitive


1	!!The movie
2	[[foldercontrol]]
3	[[folder:Kimble's legal defense]]
4	* Any decent defense attorney should have been able to get Richard Kimble acquitted. Granted, there would be no movie... Kimble [[HappilyMarried and his wife adored each other, neither was abusive or unfaithful]], and he was a wealthy doctor with no financial problems, eliminating most motives for killing her. But the most notable screw-up is when the prosecution plays a tape of Helen Kimble's 911 call, where she says, "Richard. . .he's trying to kill me." Fair enough, although she was actually calling TO her husband, begging for help, NOT naming him as the killer, as the prosecution claims. However, the first thing she clearly says to the 911 operator is "There's someone in my house". As in an intruder. How the prosecution fails to notice this, as well as the defense, is beyond me. If nothing else, it provides the jury with reasonable doubt, if not outright proof of Kimble's innocence.
5	** It all depends on how dumb the jurors and defense attorney are. It's not the least bit unrealistic to think they could do much worse than that. coughO.J. trial.cough
6	** The recording should never have been presented to the jury in the first place as it would be considered circumstantial evidence.
7	*** I don't think you know what "circumstantial" means. Whether either side would choose to admit it is one thing, but it is clearly admissible.
8	*** 911 recordings are admitted into evidence all the time. Assuming you meant to say "hearsay", this additionally be a dying declaration/present sense impression/excited utterance.
9	** It is at least brushed upon when Gerard speaks with Detectives Rosseti and Kelly about the killing:
10	-->'''Samuel Gerard:''' So why did Richard Kimble kill his wife?
11	-->'''Detective Kelly:''' He did it for the money.
12	-->'''Samuel Gerard:''' ''[skeptically]'' What do you mean "he did it for the money"? He's a doctor. He's already rich.
13	-->'''Detective Kelly:''' Oh, she was more rich.
14	** It's also possible that the CPD in this case were corrupt and knew more than it appears. If they had discovered that the real killer was a former cop, they might have framed Kimble to cover up the crime.
15	*** That would definitely explain why the CPD was particularly hellbent upon eliminating Richard during the hotel climax.
16	*** Actually, in all fairness, that was because they [[MisplacedRetribution (wrongly, of course]]), thought that Kimble had killed the transit cop and [[MisplacedRetribution were determined to take him out for taking out]] [[OneOfOurOwn one of their own]]
17	*** I also think they're corrupt, because of two examples. In the press scene they dismiss the possibility of Kimble being innocent simple because he's convicted. It isn't rocket science that innocents can be convicted too (Fritz Moen, Ron Dalton and Timonty Ewans just to name a few), and the police of all people should know that. Also the aforementioned climax after Sykes killed the transit cop. The witness reports were unclear and they still wanted him killed.
18	*** Real life prosecutors and cops have repeatedly shown great reluctance to admit they were wrong, even in the face of DNA and other such evidence (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not).
19	*** An example of that would be the The Torgersen Case in Norway where a man (Fredrik Fasting Torgersen) was convicted of rape and murder in the 1950s. The main evidence used against him back then has since been disproven and he had tried up to his death in June 2015 to have this case resumed, but the ones in the Resumption Commission went out of their way to prevent that, as if they knew that he'd be proven innocent and pardoned if he got his way.
20	*** The other possibility is the cops were just lazy (and possibly under pressure to secure a conviction for a high-profile murder). See the case of [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed Stefan Kiszko]], where the cops found what they thought was a likely suspect and focused on proving his guilt rather than continue to investigate other avenues. When someone gets murdered in their home, the first suspect is usually the spouse. Plus various circumstantial evidence pointed to Kimble's guilt and his alibi was a seeming cock and bull story involving a one-armed man, who managed to enter the house, commit a murder and leave again without a trace. The novelization mentions they didn't believe Kimble's story about the one-armed man and thus didn't really bother looking into it.
21	** Though Word of God apparently denies it, it's entirely possible that the movie (and the TV series it was made from) were loosely based on an actual case of a doctor named Sam Sheppard who was convicted of killing his wife but claimed an intruder did it. He didn't escape, but Supreme Court forced Ohio to give him a new trial which resulted in his acquittal. His defense attorney at the retrial, F. Lee Bailey, would serve on the "Dream Team" that won O.J. Simpson's acquittal.
22	** There was a lot more evidence than just the 911 call as well. His skin under her fingernails, the lack of forced entry into the house the intruder had keys, a financial motive, and so on. Certainly enough to convict.
23	*** There's also a ton of evidence that would prove it's not him. No gunshot residue on his hands, the lack of high velocity blood splatter on himself (Meaning he wasn't there when she was struck). A reasonable attorney would have had an easy day tearing the police's case open.
24	** We are shown Kimble's lawyer is a friend of his ("My advice, as both your friend and legal counsel...") in a flashback, it's possible Kimble picked a lawyer he trusted but who might not have been that good. Furthermore, another scene seem to show that Kimble tasked his lawyer with finding the "One Armed Man". It's possible that Kimble demanded his lawyer focus on that lead (Hoping to at the same time catch the man who killed his wife), instead of the evidence and the lawyer complied with a strategy that far less likely to lead to a successful defence because it's what his client, a close personal friend, demanded of him.
25	* Of course, at the end of the day this is all RuleOfDrama / AnthropicPrinciple. We can poke holes in the evidence all we want, but at the end of it all Kimble has to be wrongly convicted otherwise there's no story. So the evidence has to be both wrong (because we know he actually didn't do it), but sufficiently plentiful and convincing to facilitate the plot.
26	[[/folder]]
27	[[folder:Kimble's dam dive]]
28	* Doing a Peter Pan off a spillway overflow pipe into water at the base of a dam and surviving? Several hundred foot jump into water and not being even slightly injured? REALLY?
29	** Well it was [[NoOneCouldSurviveThat explicitly and repeatedly lampshaded]].
30	** Also, sliding down the dam would slow his fall, and the flow would disrupt the surface tension below, so he wouldn't hit the water as hard.
31	*** He also doesn't exactly come up smiling afterwards.
32	[[/folder]]
33	[[folder:Kimble's new haircut]]
34	* After his escape from the dam, we see Kimble dying his hair--but it's also much shorter than before. When did he get a haircut?
35	** A deleted scene shows him swiping a pair of scissors along with the hair dye, so he probably cut it himself before or after coloring it.
36	[[/folder]]
37	[[folder:Police forensics incompetency]]
38	* Helen Kimble was shot. Wouldn't a residue test on Kimble have shown that he DIDN'T fire a gun? Giving the jury even MORE reasonable doubt as to his guilt?
39	** Residue tests aren't 100% effective. Finding the residue goes a much further way to proving you fired the gun than not finding it goes in the opposite direction.
40	** Still, the burden is on the prosecution to give positive proof. They can't say "Oh, that doesn't prove he didn't do it, therefore he did do it".
41	*** They had other evidence against him.
42	** Wasn't she bludgened to death? Because Helen was not shot by the Kimbles' Colt DS, and while Sykes brought a Beretta, he is not seen using it.
43	*** He does. When he and Helen are struggling, the gun goes off into her stomach. He shot her, ''then'' bashed her head in.
44	** Don't know if the fact that Sykes was an ex-cop and the possibility of it being interpreted that the CPD framed Kimble to cover for one of their own might explain the lack of a GSR test.
45	** Then there's the fact that the detectives placed the blame on Kimble because there was no forced entry, and disregarded the one armed man story as being too ludicrous, despite that in the night in question, Nichols borrowed Kimble's car/keys and used the car-phone to make a call to Sykes, a one armed former cop.
46	*** Even Kimble didn't think of the possibility of Nichols being involved, he was a good friend and insisted Richard was innocent. Richard had a blind spot there because of their friendship, plus he'd apparently loaned his car while Nichols's was in the shop before so it just seemed routine. If the cops never thought to ask "Did you loan your keys to anyone?" then they would never have known it happened.
47	** Another example of the incompetence of Chicago PD is one cop stating the Richard Kimble fingerprints were found on the lamp despite the fact that logically you would find the fingerprints of a home owner on objects in his bedroom.
48	** This is all kind of the point, to be fair; the fact that we can pick holes in individual pieces of evidence is overwhelmed by the fact that there's enough circumstantial evidence to wrongly convict Kimble. Rather frighteningly, many people have wrongly convicted on much less evidence than that pointing towards Kimble.
49	[[/folder]]
50	[[folder:Dr. Nichols' motive]]
51	* The villain and the motive: Nichols tried to have Kimble killed because he knew Provasic caused liver damage. But when the drug hit the market people would find that out anyway. Granted, Nichols got on the Board of Directors of the drug company and there would be shitloads of profit until the jig was up.
52	** Not quite. The drug tested out as dangerous only for a small percentage of subjects, and perfectly efficient for the rest.
53	** Also, if memory serves, part of the plan was to pin the coverup on Kimble and then murder him so that he couldn't spill the beans. If the plan was uncovered later, Devlin-[=MacGregor=] could plausibly claim that Kimble had falsified the relevant data before his untimely death, undoubtedly amid much "regret" over such a tragedy. Of course, his escape wasn't part of the plan, but that's what you get for hiring a killer with only one functional arm; had Kimble not been able to fight off Sykes, the plan would have gone off without a hitch.
54	** Nichols could have also assumed that they could have fixed the drug given time, but that Kimble or the FDA would have shut it down before that happens.
55	[[/folder]]
56	[[folder:Why steal an ambulance]]
57	* Kimble making his escape from the hospital by stealing an ambulance, a highly visible vehicle, then pulling several stunts (crossing the railroad tracks as the gates are going down) that are bound to get him noticed. Granted, it kicks off a great chase scene, but it's still a highly stupid move on his part.
58	** Bear in mind, I think the reason why Kimble steals the ambulance is because it is more readily available, plus the keys are likely left in the ignition.
59	** And people will pull over to let him through.
60	** How Gerard is able to pinpoint the ambulance that Kimble is in is pretty simple: an ambulance that was driving pretty erratically, and also was operating outside its service area.
61	** Not to mention that the injured prison guard claimed to have seen Kimble in the hospital where he was taken, and the paramedics that dropped him off reported the ambulance as missing soon after.
62	** He's not exactly in a position to pick and choose his escape vehicle at that point. It's just the best option he has available to him, not the perfect one.
63	[[/folder]]
64	[[folder:Mistakes by Dr. Nichols]]
65	* Why didn't Dr. Nichols simply pull a WoundedGazelleGambit after Kimble interrupted his speech? "Chicago PD? This fugitive you're after is right here, and has gone off the deep end, blaming me for his wife's murder. Oh, you're right outside? [[BlatantLies Well, gee, I'd hate for you to kill him, since he used to be my friend, but he ''is'' dangerous, and I don't want to contradict your orders or anything]]. So yeah." Granted, this might not have worked out in the end; Gerard at least is aware of Kimble's innocence, and he's in charge of the case, and Kimble's accusations caused quite a stir among the audience, but the situation shouldn't be completely unsalvageable from Nichols' perspective. Considering he initially tried to act surprised and innocent when Kimble first showed up, it seems sudden and more than a little out-of-character for him to suddenly decide, "Well, jig's up. Might as well just drop the charade completely and expose myself, even to those who wouldn't have reason to suspect me of anything yet."
66	** Ironically, the original script has him planning to do just that. During the fight in the hotel room, Nichols says, "I always knew I'd have to kill you. But now, I must thank you for giving me a room full of people who will support me when I say it was self-defense."
67	* By the end of the movie, Gerard is very suspicious of Nichols and Sykes, and has one of his deputies check the phone records to check if they have contacted one another. Nothing comes up, but then one of the deputies informs that a call was made from Kimble's car-phone to Sykes, and when Gerard checks the files the Chicago P.D. has on Kimble's case, the call was made when Nichols was driving to the hospital benefit to return Kimble's car.
68	* Nichols probably was hoping to pull something like this, by killing Gerard and blaming it on Kimble. "Oh, he must have knocked out that other agent, taken his gun, and then killed Agent Gerard. I only barely managed to kill him later, with Gerard's gun."
69	[[/folder]]
70	[[folder:Plot hole in Dr. Nichols' criminal scheme]]
71	* Dr. Nichols' plot shouldn't have worked. For a drug to be approved it is sent to hundreds of different hospitals and given to thousands of people. While the executives in question managed to cover it up at one hospital, all hospitals have microscopes and can notice their patients dying of liver failure. It's really hard to find people to test new drugs. The drugs are untested, you may get a placebo, so not many people agree to it. You really need to cast a wide net to get enough people. You need a lot of hospitals. How was falsifying a small number of records at one hospital supposed to help long term approval?
72	** We don't know that Devlin McGregor wasn't falsifying records at all of the hospitals where Provasic was being tested. We only know that they got caught at this one.
73	** Also, in total fairness no one ever says that Nichols' scheme is completely foolproof; the very fact that he arranges a murder-for-hire to begin with heavily suggests that he was getting a bit desperate even before Kimble and Gerard independently started nosing around. The house of cards may indeed have collapsed eventually anyway -- but that would still result in Kimble wrongly spending however long in prison before being executed if not actually ''being'' executed before it happened, both of which Kimble is understandably keen to avoid.
74	[[/folder]]
75	[[folder:Why help your enemy]]
76	* Why did Nichols help Kimble as much as he did? Why not call the police immediately and cooperate to have him arrested? Even granting that he wanted to play the part of the friend in order not to raise Kimble's suspicions, why did he lead him right to the incriminating evidence?
77	** I figure he was planning on having Sykes do the dirty part, which is the reason for the fight on the train between Kimble and Sykes.
78	** And by helping Kimble, Nichols now has a better idea of where Kimble will go, thus helping Sykes track him down.
79	** If Dr. Nichols didn't help Kimble, it would have made him look more suspicious.
80	** On both occasions Nichols is only appearing to be helpful. When Kimble approaches him in his car Nichols first tries to get him to get in his car and come with him. Then when that fails he asks him if he has somewhere to stay. He is trying to make sure he knows where Kimble is so he can direct Sykes where to go to finish the job. When Kimble later calls him to ask him to get "Bones" to help him recover the tissue samples at the hospital, Nichols says he will - and then immediately calls Sykes to go to the hospital to kill Kimble while he's there. Sykes just doesn't make it there in time to catch Kimble at the hospital because he has to distract the police watching his house first.
81	[[/folder]]
82	[[folder:Roller blading nurses!]]
83	* Why is one of the nurses at the hospital on ''roller blades''? Is this a thing in the USA where hospital are very lax about these kind of things? Isn't that sort of pointless dangerous?
84	** Maybe they think riding on roller blades will get them to patients quicker? It's still stupid, but it's a theory.
85	** StealthPun ? "Get your skates on!"
86	** Maybe people were more lax in the 90s.
87	** It might not be a nurse, just someone moving records fast in the hospital, and they're being tolerated because they've got a proven record at getting things where they need to go fast without accident.
88	** My impression was that he was a doctor in scrubs, getting places in a busy hospital as fast as he could. Doctor or nurse, BunnyEarsLawyer is probably in effect; he's tolerated because it works.
89	[[/folder]]
90	[[folder:The 12 year old bottle of scotch]]
91	* In the CPD briefing scene, the Captain briefing his officers on Kimble's return to Chicago promised a bottle of twelve-year-old scotch to the man who caught him. Did Gerard show up to claim the bottle after the movie? I think he earned it.
92	** Seeing how things went so sour between the CPD and the Marshals during the capture of Kimble and apprehension of Dr. Nichols, probably not.
93	** He could have done that out of spite. I would, even if I don't drink.
94	** It's Sam Gerard. He totally did, and probably asked the captain to have a drink with him.
95	[[/folder]]
96	[[folder:The raid on Copeland's hideout]]
97	* Is it me, or does Copeland seem to act like he might be on drugs?
98	** Possible. He's being in a ghetto, after all.
99	[[/folder]]
100	[[folder:Dr. Nichols and the U.S. Marshals]]
101	* Nichols admits to Gerard and co that he has recently seen Kimble and gave him money. Surely he should have been in trouble for aiding and abetting a wanted fugitive?
102	** Technically yes, but it was a rather minor amount of help. It's unlikely anyone would charge him for giving Kimble a handful of cash.
103	* When Gerard shows Lentz' photo to Nichols, he lies and claims not to know him when he has no good reason for doing so. It was only a matter of time before the Marshals found someone who could identify Lentz, and then they'd learn that Nichols was his boss and had therefore lied to them. It just made Gerard more suspicious of him and he also risked getting himself in hot water for lying to federal agents.
104	** Nichols is obviously annoyed that a group of Marshals approached him so openly in front of his friends/business associates, and then they use "Just One More Thing" on him to ask him to identify Lentz. If Nichols had said "yes, that's my friend Dr. Lentz, who died in a car crash last summer," it would have led to more questions, when he clearly wanted to just be on his way.
105	* Why does Nichols cover for Kimble to the Marshals? Obviously he's working behind the scenes to have Richard killed, but wouldn't it just be easier and less likely to expose him if he just helps the Marshals do their job and recapture Kimble?
106	** Nichols would rather Richard was dead than alive even in jail, since if he's dead then he can't put together the clues he already has or reveal what he already knows. Unfortunately, to do so means leaving him free to run around investigating the situation longer, since it's harder for Nichols to be able to silence him if Kimble is in jail -- an irony Nichols is presumably all too aware of.
107	[[/folder]]
108	[[folder:So, what did the kid have?]]
109	* A doctor examines Joel, even "checks the film", and concludes that the boy possibly has a fractured sternum that just requires observation. What did Kimble see in that film and in the records that convinced him otherwise? It would have to be something subtle enough for the other doctor to miss but critical enough that it required an emergency medical procedure to save his life.
110	** According to the novelization, the boy's sternum had splintered and torn his aorta (Kimble also gives the boy a cursory examination, something that doesn't happen in the film). As a top surgeon, Kimble was probably more experienced than the younger ER doctors and just saw something they didn't.
111	** The doctor also had about one second to look the film before being called away by Julianne Moore. Kimble was a good enough doctor that he could tell it wasn't just a fractured sternum and was something more serious.
112	[[/folder]]
113	[[folder:How does he know the hospital?]]
114	* How does Kimble know exactly which hospital to look when it comes to prosthetics? It could be 1,2, or even a dozen hospitals right?
115	** It could be that he just got lucky; his search only started with Chicago Memorial and he was planning to broaden it if CMH yielded no results. Alternatively, maybe CMH had the best or most well-known prosthetic lab in the city and Richard knew it, so that was the hospital where the killer would most likely have gone to receive his prosthetic arm.
116	*** The latter point seems quite likely; Richard ''is'' a highly-regarded surgeon, after all. It might not be his field exactly, but it's knowledge he's likely to have.
117	[[/folder]]
118	[[folder:Nichols calling Sykes from Kimble's car.]]
119	* How was the fact that Nichols had Kimble's car and called Sykes from his car phone never brought up during the initial investigation? Why would Nichols even do this anyway thus incriminating him if they found out had Kimble's car?

Context Headscratchers / TheFugitive