Line #91 Headscratchers/That70sShow


1	* Anybody else find Donna to be a bit of a bitch in the episode 'Backstage Pass'? First, she doesn't have time to be with her boyfriend because of her job, and that's totally understandable. So she makes it up to him by taking him to a Ted Nugent concert. But then at the end of the concert, Eric and Donna get one backstage pass, and Donna decides to go. She tells him she'll be right back, but instead hangs out with Ted Nugent. And when Eric and Donna meet back up, Eric tells Donna how crappy his night was and she gets pissed off at him! And then, she talks about how important it was for her (becausera she got to interview Ted Nugent and she works at a radio station), but she didn't think about interviewing him until he offered, and even after the interview, she just stayed with him. And Eric is willing to let go of the incident if she feels sorry (she doesn't have to apologize, but instead she tells him she's not sorry, and after Hyde and Fez show up, (rudely) asks Eric if they can leave. I love Donna, but she was a bitch in this episode.
2	** +1 to Bitch when Eric says that Kitty would have apologized to Red for leaving him hanging like that and she says "Well they're married and we're not." So Donna in that episode believes you only have to treat people you date with decency after you marry them. Till then, do what you want! WHEEEEE!
3	** Well, it makes sense that she was. It was a build-up to the breakup episode.
4	*** The break up episode makes it even worse! As Eric wants to make a certain level of commitment (teenage promise ring, not exactly earth shattering stuff really) Donna spends the rest of the episode fantasizing about how he'll hold her back in her quest for some type of greatness. Not because he says he will, mind you, when she brings up things she'd like to do later in life he basically says "hey sure, but when you picture yourself doing those things we're together right?" Not in her mind though. So even though Eric up to that point has pretty much bent to her will at every turn Donna believes it won't work out because she just so great at life itself he couldn't possibly do anything but drag her down long term. Keep in mind at this point it's never shown that Eric does poorly in school or that he's anything other than a bit of a social misfit who gets good marks all the time, with every bit the same potential as Donna.
5	*** And after she drops Eric, the lead weight that would drag her down, she picks up Casey Kelso, a character who embodies everything she claims to have wanted to avoid in her relationship with Eric. She proceeds to screw up her exalted future as quickly as possible, culminating in cutting class to get drunker than any other character to date, while Casey, her date was stone cold sober. Classy Lady indeed.
6	*** Yes, she and even Eric's family don't make me feel like they were equal in their relationship. Like the "reacher and settler" theory in ''Series/HowIMetYourMother''.
7	*** Was anyone else bothered by the episode "Donna's Story"? To give a summary: Donna writes and submits a story to the school newspaper highlighting all of the bad things and problems they had in their relationship up to the breakup and students at the school start harassing Eric for it. When he brings the genuine concern up to her, she insists that it's "just a story" and that the students would certainly be able to tell that. Cue a group of students harassing Eric right in front of her as an obvious result of the story, which Donna shrugs off. Eric responds by writing and submitting his own ex-bashing story to the paper and gets called out on it for "being a vindictive ass" when Donna wrote her story to deal with her feelings about the relationship and the breakup. Then it's made all better when it turns out that Donna's story was actually a two-parter and students started apologizing to Eric. Donna's "explanation" makes some sense, but one can't help but wonder two things: Did she absolutely have to publish it in the school paper? And did she have to show ALL the negative and NONE of the positive in the first part? At the very least she could have made a disclaimer denouncing any negative action toward Eric for the story's contents.
8	** In the episode "We're Not Gonna Take It" she calls Eric a jackass because he asked Bob why Jo fired him. Jo had just broken up with Bob and Donna never told Eric in the first place. Bit of a [[Series/HowIMetYourMother "Grinch"]] and CreatorsPet in [[Tropers/SpiderFan14 my]] opinion.
9	** In short, you're wrong, Donna's not a bit of a bitch in that episode. She's just a bitch in general, pretty much.
10	*** This. Season 4 is pretty much 27 episodes worth of Donna torturing Eric out of her self-righteous outrage (Over a break-up that she very much pushed him into with her horrid behavior). Throughout the season she's shown abusing his feelings for her to her advantage, refusing to be with him but also blocking him every single time he tries to get on with his life and constantly flipping between wanting to be his friend and bullying him openly; and it's all depicted as something we should like her for!
11	** with all this in mind it's almost LaserGuidedKarma that Eric is the first one to leave Point Place and actually do something with his life, doing everything Donna wanted to do and even getting back together with her in the end by being the bigger person.
12	* What exactly was Red's problem? He was always so rude to everyone, especially his wife and son, but God forbid anyone ever be rude to him. What a hypocritical egotist! He acted like he was some God. What grand thing did he ever do in his life to make him think he deserved the respect he felt he should have?
13	** Vietnam.
14	*** Red wasn't in Vietnam, he was in Korea, something that was mentioned in nearly ''every single freaking episode.''
15	*** He served in both WWII and Korea.
16	** Well to be fair, Red only really acts like a jerk to people when he thinks they did something stupid, until then he's plenty nice to them. And as for the gang, he's only rude to them because to him they're just a bunch of teenagers hanging out at his house being stupid, which nine times out of ten is true. Also there are episodes where Red shows that he really does care for everyone.
17	** Reading between the lines, it's entirely likely that Red has a couple of major {{Freudian Excuse}}s going on. For one thing, keep in mind that Red is a hardcore Republican and that during the time the show is set ''UsefulNotes/JimmyCarter'' is President. Red's also a devoted Green Bay Packers fan, and apparently they were cellar-dwellers during the time the show was set. Hence why he's in such a bad mood all the time-when UsefulNotes/RonaldReagan moved into the Oval Office and the Packers started winning championships again, he probably cheered up quite a bit.
18	*** Also take into account that Red is a man who very much believes in the American Dream, namely, that he put in his time in the Navy and therefore he deserves a nice house, a nice job, and nice, obedient, ambitious children. Instead, he has been laid off from his job and has two children who fall far short of his expectations. Eric is a lazy burnout, instead of a hardworking athlete and star-student, and Laurie is a mooching, manipulative, promiscuous college drop-out instead of a virginal, studious, and domestic young woman. Also, they promised him a hovercraft.
19	** But Laurie manipulates him as she wants. He is certain that she is a perfect, innocent little angel.
20	*** Until he finds out that she's living with a guy and lied about it. Afterwards he's far more even in his treatment of both his kids.
21	*** I think it's implied that he's hard on Eric because he knows Eric has the capacity to be highly successful if he just stops being so lazy, while he dotes Laurie because he knows she's a good-for-nothing slut who will never achieve anything and wants to give her some good times before her unavoidable downfall.
22	** To be fair to the man, both of his children have grown up to be fairly irresponsible bums and potheads, and he's taken in another kid on top of it from a troubled family. Doesn't entirely excuse his behavior but the man's got a lot to be stressed about.
23	** Red's problem was that he was a jerk. He was a jerk that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold had his moments]], but he was a jerk. Don't know what's hard to understand about that.
24	*** Really, though, put yourself in Red's place. You're struggling just to make ends meet, and you've always got a house full of screwup teenagers (dropping a bowling ball onto the couch that breaks the TV, as just ONE example, and [=TVs=] cost a LOT more in the 70s than they do now). They make noise, smoke dope, and eat all your food. Wouldn't you be annoyed with them?
25	* The entire timeline cock-up bugs the heck out of me. Eight Christmases in four years, Eric turns 17 a year after Hyde in spite of them both being 16 during the same year, and so on and so forth. The 1970s setting really had nothing to do with the plot after the first season--would it have killed them to make some effort to create a plausable series of events?
26	** I agree, at least about the Christmas episode. I don't even understand why TV shows feel the need to have a Christmas episode every year. This is especially true for shows that have a set timeframe and run for a long time, like MASH. The Korean War spanned three Christmases, but MASH was on for 13 years and had at least 12 Christmases.
27	*** It's a ratings thing, some shows (especially half-hour comedies) feel the need to compete with whichever network has the rights to the big-name Christmas specials at the time so they make their own in an attempt to cash in on the big Christmas rush.
28	** In addition to the time continuity problem, I dislike how family members are never mentioned until they make an appearance. This may not be a problem when you're talking about someone like Kelso's brother because no one would have a reason to mention him until he's seen, but Red's brother is a good example. His mom (Marion Ross) shows up a few times, but she doesn't mention him having a brother. The same seems to be true about Eric's sister.
29	** Given that Red's brother is seen as something of a disappointment, not mentioning him would actually make sense.
30	*** Red's brother is brought up in the very first episode Red's mom shows up. Repeatedly. She mentions him having a nicer car and a better job.
31	** Well, in relation to the question above, I read somewhere the creators explained that each season of the series represented ''Half'' a year. Here's how it looked:
32	---> Season One: 1976-77
33	---> Season Two/Three: 1977
34	---> Season Four/Five: 1978
35	---> Season Six/Seven/Eight: 1979
36	** That makes it even worse! That makes three Christmas in 1977 and 1979 and two in 1978, with only 1976 even ''resembling'' a normal year. It bugs me because they could've easily been deliberately vague about when it took place, but instead they chose a firm starting year for the series, thus dooming it to serious issues should it last more than four years. If they needed a real starting point, rather than making it vague and then {{Retcon}}ing it into some sort of sense after the fact, why start so late in the game and risk the show going on for longer than the era it takes place in? Why 1976 instead of 1974, or maybe '''JUST 1970'''?! The Ford episode wasn't that great...
37	** They probably thought it won't last that long. Most shows don't. And they wanted to involve ''Franchise/StarWars''.
38	*** According to The Other Wiki, the show was the only one to debut on FOX in 1998 and survive cancellation, and it lasted even longer than most of the shows at the time (Look up the fourth season opener on Family Guy for further reference). This, combined with the first season jump to 1977, caused the slowdown of the timeline, and it proved to be really problematic.
39	** It bugs this troper that the group's junior year (and Jackie's sophomore year) lasted four seasons. I can't remember how long the first few seasons were supposed to be, but the third season should've been the end of junior year, but they don't mention senior year starting until the fifth season.
40	*** This brings up another problem. Jackie is a year younger than the rest of the group who graduated in 1979, so she should have still been in high school at the end of the show.
41	** There's now a [[WMG/{{Ptitle8on2br9g}} WMG]] about this.
42	*** She is, in Season 7. Episode 20 has Jackie graduating, one year after the others.
43	* Where the heck is Fez from? I once read an essay suggesting that he is from Curacao (because he mentions that they speak both Spanish and Dutch) but I can't find that now.
44	** This troper read somewhere that he was from Borneo.
45	** I think his country is deliberately described to fit no real one, so they could say what they want about it without offending anybody.
46	** Hardtopronouncia.
47	*** Judging by the information given from in the penultimate episode, we know Fez's country can only be reached by Brazil. He mentions that he has to transfer from Brazil to his country, and that he's done it before. This leads to the conclusion that Brazil is the only place that flies there. Further more, it's mentioned that the name of the country depends on who you ask, the British, or the Dutch. However, the British wouldn't tell you because they hate the country where Fez is from. And the Dutch are impossible to understand, so when you ask them the name you can't understand it. Therefore we know these facts: It can only be reached by Brazil, it has a history with the British and the Dutch, and the British don't seem very fond of them. Have I thought long and hard about this? Yes! And I hope this nerdy information will be able to help Tropers everywhere.
48	** Aruba?
49	*** Jamaica?
50	*** "Ooh, I wanna take ya,"
51	* Fez also is not of Latin descent. Though he does have Latin pride.
52	*** Or a country that doesn't exist in the real world, since That 70s Show is a fictional universe, and nothing says it [[FridgeLogic has to have the same geography as real life]].
53	* Why the hell did Donna open the bathroom door anyway? If you think someone might be in there, wait for them to answer! Surely there could've been another way to start the Caught With His Pants Down episode.
54	** Being fair, this is her house. Plus they might have more then one bathroom. And she might not have assumed that anyone was in the bathroom.
55	*** Donna's house has an upstairs and downstairs bathroom.
56	* In the episode 'Class Picture' (4x20), Eric's subplot (separate from the flashbacks) is how his zit is going to ruin his picture, ultimately resulting in him popping it and requiring a band-aid for his picture. Except that the zit only became visible once Hyde pushed Eric's hair back, and it remains that way. Eric could have easily solved his problem by covering the zit with his hair.
57	* So let me get this straight, Eric gets engaged, and Red destroys most of his chance at a future? The fuck? And Kitty says nothing, even HELPING!
58	** Kitty didn't want Eric to have a future because then he would leave her. Kitty continued to sabotage Eric's future even after Red gave up.
59	*** And Red only did everything to stop Eric from getting married as a means to keep Eric from rushing into anything he wouldn't be able to get through, and as a test of his resolve to marry Donna.
60	** What I don't get is why there is so much drama toward the end of Season 5, when Eric and Donna decide to move to Madison after graduation. Aren't kids ''supposed'' to move out when they finish high school? Hasn't Red said many times over the years that Eric's gone when he's done? I would think they'd be packing Eric's bags for him. Kitty takes it hard because Eric's a momma's boy, but Red should have been more accepting about it.
61	*** That's a classic, sarcastic remark for an irritated father to make. Red may be a jerkass, but he does sincerely love his son and wants him to succeed. It's no different than when he refused to just let Hyde run off when he turned 18. He wants to make sure his boys have got their shit together before they leave the nest.
62	* Tommy Chong as Leo doesn't make sense. He's played as a burnt out stoner in his 50s to 60s, but that would have had him born in the 1920s to 1910s, making him even older than Red. At best, he ought to be a burnt-out beatnik!
63	** Drugs are older than you think. For instance, ''Film/ReeferMadness'' came out in 1936, when he would have been around college age, so weed was already popular with youth even by then. LSD was invented two years later.
64	*** Yes, but the point stands that the "old hippie" tropes that surround Leo are hugely anachronistic. I suppose this is part of the joke.
65	*** I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there's actually some kind of important difference between a hippie and a beatnik. But maybe Leo just keeps up with the times and reinvented himself as a hippie when that trend came along. Some old people are surprisingly culturally adaptable, in defiance of the stereotype.
66	** Wasn't there an episode where they showed him as a young man around the time of WWII, and someone gave him some marijuana for the first time?
67	*** Yep. Red is surprised to learn that Leo is a military veteran, so we get treated to a flashback featuring a clean-cut, morally upstanding Leo leaving a military base after getting discharged and hitching a ride with a car full of stoned jazz musicians. And, yes, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Chingkwake#Age_and_birthday he is older than Red.]]
68	* Why do the main characters have to express 1990's and later attitudes in a show set in the late 1970's?
69	** How are they expressing 1990s attitudes? I figured it strange at first that they remind me more of the 90s in behaviour and traits than the 70s, but then this troper grew up in the 90s, and consequently developed a schema where he associated teenagers with 90s culture. Who's to say teenagers weren't the same in the 70s? Difficult to say unless you actually lived it. Ask anyone who grew up as a teenager in the 70s, and ask them if That 70s Show is a good reflection of what teenagers were like in the 70s. Whatever era, they were still teenagers. Although teenagers in the 70s weren't as highly sexed and useless as teenagers are now.
70	*** [[NostalgiaFilter Wanna bet?]]
71	* JBM: The Jackie/Hyde/Kelso triangle has always bugged me. Even if you can accept that Hyde and Kelso were good enough friends for Kelso not to have a problem w/ Jackie being w/ Hyde,you'd still have the issue of a very immature Jackie now dating another member of the same group she hangs out with and being able to deal w/ the issues that would cause. Sure she got angry when she saw Kelso kissing another girl after they had broken up,but the whole thing was presented in such a fraudulent manner that it was unbelievable. Jackie would have left the group after she left Kelso,because there would have been no place for her. Or the change in group dynamics would have caused the group to break up.
72	** You can't say for sure whether or not she would leave or the group would break up. Keep in mind that she really had no other close friends at that point, and even if she only started hanging out with them because of Kelso, she did (sort of) become friends with the rest of them. At the very least, she became good friends with Donna (even if Donna wasn't that keen on it.) That would've been a difficult time for her, and she'd want to be around friends. As well, when she started dating Hyde, Kelso did have a problem with it, but he eventually got over it. I doubt he or anyone else in the group would let something like that tear everyone apart, since they didn't have any other close friends either.
73	** Then there's the whole reason as to why Kelso and Jackie broke up that doesn't make much sense. Jackie (and everyone else including Kelso) claims Kelso's cheating broke them up when in fact it's Jackie's wanting to get married while they were still in high school. Kelso like anyone else doesn't want to, but him being Kelso figures she can't get married without him and runs away to California.
74	*** Well Kelso didn't tell Jackie, nor did he leave a note, before running away. And while in California, he seduced another woman, Annette, not to mention that when he got back, he expected Jackie would just forgive him and alls well that ends well. In the end, it was his (as well as Jackie's) unfaithfulness that drove them apart.
75	** Kelso didn't have a problem with Hyde and Jackie getting together? Er wrong. Kelso spent a good part of their relationships openly exclaiming how Jackie should be back with him instead. Kelso saw it as a friendly rivalry. Of course it wasn't a friendly rivalry, Jackie was well and truely with Hyde (until they split up later), but Kelso is just an idiot.
76	* The episode when Eric was hit on by the gay student. Not wanting to sound homophobic, but that was unbelievable. In the late 1970's, homosexuality outside the bigger cities was a taboo (and wasn't too welcome in most areas of the cities) and unless Eric was exceptionally tolerant for that era, his responses would have been very harsh and probably would have caused the other guy a number of problems later. This seems to have been a case of the writer's views trumping historical reality.
77	** Though the era's views on homosexuality may seem to lean towards the homophobic, the LGBT movement experienced relatively impressive gains throughout the 70s. The Stonewall riots were in June of 1969, and homosexuality was removed from the list of psychiatric disorders in 1973. The early 70s also displayed the first laws prohibiting discrimination based on sexuality, and the first openly gay people to be elected into political office. Although, to be fair to your point, the most notable of the political officials had been assassinated for their sexuality at the end of the decade, and the mainstream community generally became more opposed to the movement as homosexuals started coming out of the closet.
78	** Also, Eric expressed rather clearly in the pilot episode that he seemed quite proud to be tolerant of alternative lifestyles when they're at the concert.
79	*** Not to mention that '''Red''', of all people, didn't have a problem with his gay neighbors' sexuality and even had a good time watching football games on TV with them. The only reason he began to hate them, call them "freaks" and throw them out of his house was because they were Minnesota Vikings fans, not because of their sexuality.
80	*** Rule of Funny, also having a homophobic character on the show just makes things awkward
81	** Not to be [[CaptainObvious Captain Obvious]], but That 70s Show is a fictional universe. Why should it have the same attitudes of the 70s that real life had? If it was a documentary trying to accurately portray real life, then yes, but it's a sit-com that just happens to ''have'' a 70s design theme. It's not the same thing.
82	* It just bugs me that the SugarWiki/FunnyMoments page was deleted.
83	** [[Funny/That70sShow It's back now.]]
84	* What bugs me is how Eric and Donna broke up during the eighth season. What, just because he was in Africa? And the way the writers put the blame on him and had virtually every character side with Donna. In real-life, that would be logical. But in a TV show that previously had Eric as the main character? It reeked of laziness to get Donna together with Randy, that cross between SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute and TheScrappy. Something tells this troper that the writers didn't expect fans to cry foul over this development.
85	** Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Especially when you consider him going away to Africa was at least partly so they could have a ''future together''! And fine, okay, she gets together with Randy, but then by the end of the season they break up, making the relationship completely pointless. I get they did that because Eric was coming back for the [[GrandFinale finale]], and everyone hated Randy and all, but from a in-universe standpoint... It always bugged me.
86	** While it is no excuse for bad writing, I think the in show excuse was that Eric realized in Africa it wasn't fair to Donna, waiting for him, so he broke it off. Later in the finale he said Red was right and he was a dumbass.
87	* For that matter, the entire eighth season. What was the point? This troper would argue that the seventh season was the logical end to the series. Fans objected to Eric going to Africa, but there was a certain irony to him (out of every character) being the one to leave Point Place. For one, several familiar faces (Leo, Midge, Casey, Fenton) all made re-appearances. More importantly, all the main characters were moving forward with their lives - Eric deciding to become a teacher and leaving home for a program to pay for college; Hyde meeting his dad and getting a job at his record place; Donna's radio show gig; Kelso being a father and a police officer; Fez getting his own apartment (with Kelso); and Jackie embarking on her career. Even Red got a new business. Never before has a PostScriptSeason been such a horrible mistake.
88	* What was Donna's problem in the season one Star Wars episode "A New Hope"? Red's boss' son David comes back no longer with scoliosis or asthma, but hot and thinking Donna is a nice piece of work herself. Eric is almost immediately threatened and spends the rest of the episode telling Donna to stay away from him. Donna is angry that Eric is acting like a possessive jerk and is somewhat justified in that... until the end of the episode when Eric challenges David to a fight and David reveals that he WAS trying to get into Donna's pants this whole time and Eric WAS completely right about everything. Instead of admitting to Eric that he was right about David (even if he was a tool about it) and that she should have listened, Donna yells at Eric for not trusting her or respecting her and marching off. What the hell? This entire incident is forgotten about by the next episode and this Troper was left confused and angry.
89	** Just because David wanted to get into Donna's pants didn't mean she would've let him. Eric should've trusted Donna to say no.
90	** Eric and David also “bond” over griping about Donna not sleeping with them after they’re nice to her, and specifically make comments that apparently reveal Eric was only ever her friend because he wanted to sleep with her and that he doesn’t actually respect her as a person. She had every right to be pissed at her boyfriend— whom she has been friends with for years before they started dating— implying he only values her for her looks and for joining in on and agreeing David when he reveals he was just manipulating Donna to sleep with her and that somehow Donna had wronged David by “just wanting to be friends.” In short, Eric was being a misogynistic asshole.
91	* The episode where Donna and Eric get caught having sex in the Vista Cruiser. Just the beginning part with the police for a few reasons:
92	## They were not on the side of the road or anywhere the public could see them presumably, Eric may be a bit of a dope sometimes but he's not that much of a dumbass.
93	** No, it was kind of a given they were near a road. And even then, they were in public, and it was illegal for them to have sex there.
94	## The cop shouldn't have had the power to arrest them. While Eric smarted off to him, that's just petty. He should have at least just asked them to get dressed and leave.
95	** Cops can arrest people for having sex in a public place. It's called "Public indecency", like streaking.
96	## [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking How did he know where they lived?]]
97	** He asked them.
98	*** [[FridgeBrilliance Or he got the information from Eric's driver's license.]]
99	* One thing that always bugged me about the later seasons, why did the kids still hang out in the basement after Eric left? Am I the only one that found that strange? I'm sure they were welcome there but I would have thought Donna of all people would have found it awkward being around there.
100	** For one, Hyde still lives there, and Donna hung out there before, why not now?
101	*** Why does Hyde still live there? He graduated school, had a steady job, and was MARRIED! Plus, Red caught him with weed late Season 7... Every other time that subject has come up, he's kicked him out until someone else took responsibility.
102	*** The key there is "graduated school and had a steady job". Despite his other failings, Hyde was meeting Red's definition of a responsible member of the community by earning his diploma and keeping a job. He thus would have gone rather easier on him than in other situations. He may not have said "Get the hell out and get your own place" because not-very-deep down he actually likes Hyde and didn't want him to leave until Hyde decided he wanted to.
103	** Fair enough, the Hyde thing is reasonable. But I always thought it was weird with Donna after Eric left. They were supposed to get married, the basement would bring up so many memories.
104	*** StatusQuoIsGod.
105	* What happened to the kid Fez was on the exchange with? I thought the point of the exchange was that you came back.
106	** Well, there was an episode that focused on Fez having to take a citizenship test to stay in America. Presumably that's when the exchange was over and the other child came home. But Fez's host parents allowed him to stay with them until he graduated high school, after which he got his own apartment with Kelso.
107	** Exchanges aren't always literally "you send us a kid, we send you a kid back". They're usually played that way on TV shows for comedy and convenience, but in real life exchange programs have a bit broader scope. Fez's equivalent may have been from an entirely different town and may have come home years before Fez was even due to.
108	* Midge is portrayed as a victorious feminist, with the voiceover crowd cheering when she throws an attitude at Bob. be she did not have a job, so she was not independent, and her family (mostly Bob) was seen eating sandwiches in the kitchen, denied a hot meal (it sounds sexist, but she has no job, it's the least she can do) because she is having her feminist friends over.
109	** Bob is also somewhat sexist. The crowd was probably cheering that ''someone'' finally told him off.
110	** Also it's easy to get a crowd to cheer for anything where you stand up for hot-button issues like feminism, even if it makes no sense.
111	** Midge is pretty dumb- she doesn't really understand feminism, she just likes having meetings to go to and spending time away from home. So she just parrots what she hears without thinking about whether it makes sense for her. She never thinks about actually getting a job, or really doing anything other than what she's always done. Except now she thinks she's not supposed to have to make supper for her husband.
112	* It just bugs me that Donna, of all characters, is considered significantly hotter than Jackie, and to a ridiculous extent. Probably every single male character is obsessed with her! Creator/LauraPrepon, the actress who plays her, isn't exactly noted for her beauty, meanwhile Creator/MilaKunis is something of a sex icon and has been on Maxim's Hot 100 multiple times. I know Jackie's personality is supposed to make her more unattractive on the show, but come ON.
113	** Do you watch the show? Donna has been said to be somewhat hot but not nearly as Jackie. Everyone specially Jackie make fun of her tomboyish nature and her numerous physical imperfections. Jackie is the Libby, who everyone except Eric had the hots for her at some point, and even so Hyde told Eric to think of Jackie mute, and noticed how incredibly hot she is.
114	** It's apples and oranges. Creator/LauraPrepon is a pale, blue-eyed [[StatuesqueStunner statuesque valkyrie]], and Creator/MilaKunis is a petite Jewish sex goddess. They're both equally hot, but for different reasons.A
115	** Before being hired onto [=T7S=], Prepon was a model. So, clearly she kind of is "noted for her beauty."
116	** First, and most obviously: the people calling Donna hot were usually attracted to her. All it took was a thirty-second conversation for a guy to realize that not only was Jackie annoying and unpleasant, or 15 when filming began and Laura Prepon was 17. Kunis looked like a cute little girl up until season three or so; all her male castmates were at least four years older than her, making her seem even younger by comparison. Third: Laura Prepon was in Maxim's Hot 100 in 2000(at number 36); in 2001, she was at number 21 while Mila Kunis was at 62. Prepon also made appearances on the list at least twice more, in 2002 and 2005. The idea that Kunis was "way hotter" during the show's run is debatable.
117	** Not to mention that Donna is actually considered nice and fun, while Jackie is grating and boring to most of the others.
118	** In terms of ''the character'', It '''did''' come down to personality a bit. Eric asked Hyde one time how he could think Jackie was hot: Hyde said "Do what I do- tune her out." Eric replays an imagine spot, but without audio this time, and immediately pulls an "I'm such an idiot" face.
119	* This doesn't really bug me, it's more of a question about the 70's. In the episode where we see Eric's life had he never dated Donna, he is a loser on the chess team and earned a varsity letter. It's on a sweater he is wearing, is that how they used to do it in the 70s? At my school and every other I know of, you either put your letter on a varsity jacket or you just keep the letter.
120	** Yes, it's called a varsity sweater, which was common until the 80s.
121	* In "Eric's Corvette Caper" Red busts Eric for stealing his corvette and grounds him for a month. When Eric reveals that he stole the car to impress a girl, Red reduces the punishment to two weeks. Then Hyde and Fez come out and pin the fact that they drank all of Red's beer on Eric. And Eric just ''accepts it''! Why on Earth didn't Eric just say "I was gone all night with Red's corvette so I couldn't have drank the beer. You two were the only ones here all night."
122	** He's grown so used to being treated unfairly that he doesn't bother to fight it anymore.
123	* In "Eric's Naughty No-no", Eric sees some sex move in a porno film and tries it on Donna, to her disgust. What was it? Hyde and Kelso claim to both have done it, which isn't much of a clue. One might guess he attempted cunnilingus, which I'd consider pretty tame, but it's hard to know what Donna would view as "normal". There was something about a GI Joe in a suggestive position giving a clue?
124	** Anal sex?
125	* When Eric and Donna fool around behind a hedge at a Take Back the Night rally, the crowd thinks he's assaulting her and attacks him. The whole time, she just stands there, not speaking a word in his defense, just yelling for him to run. WhatTheHellHero
126	** In all fairness, there was little she could've done as her words would've, at best, fallen on deaf ears or, at worse, the protesters would think he coerced her into defending him. When the crowd get riled up, there's no negotiating with them.
127	* Hyde meets his dad... then later in the show, Kitty says "Oh, Hyde! That's not your dad after all... this is your dad". Though understandable, because his mother could definitely not have known who his legitimate father was, if the name of the father was on the birth certificate she did know. Yes it's also understandable that she didn't tell him, but it seems to me his deadbeat mother would rather try to get this new rich father's money than to pretend a poor drunkard was Hyde's dad... There are reasonable explanations for this, but what upsets me most is that the writer's would do the same exact storyline twice. It's like they ran out of ideas.
128	** When Hyde goes to meet his new father, Red, Kitty, and Jackie go too. Hyde goes into his father's office without everyone else, and Kitty and Jackie are upset that he didn't take them to meet his dad for the first time... then very next episode, Hyde meets his father for the first time, which presumably he already did last episode? And they're not even in his father's office this time!
129	*** Actually when they all go to Hyde's father office Hyde leaves unseen with Red commenting that he saw it causing Jackie to chase after Hyde while Red has to herald Kitty out since she's obsessed with the notion that she'll get a fur coat for uniting Hyde and his father.
130	* Night before graduation the gang goes camping, then they're late for graduation. They all know they are to graduate and they graduate though in their own makeshift ceremony. They're seen in their caps and gowns with diplomas... Then several seasons later Eric gets his transcript in the mail saying he can't graduate. What?
131	** A lot of graduations have a fake diploma for the ceremony and mail your real one to you later. And since Eric wasn't at the ceremony, he wasn't told he didn't get to walk. Normally the guidance counselor would deal with that situation, but since we see later the counselor is obsessed with Donna it's possible he wanted to screw Eric over.
132	* Why would Kelso's baby mama allow Kelso to pick the baby's godparents when he wasn't even really supposed to be included in the baby's life at all?
133	** While Brooke was introduced as Kelso's baby mama, throughout season 6, he spent large amounts of time with her (even leaving a party to hang out with her) and did try to start a real relationship with her. He even signed them up for a parenting class on Kitty's suggestion. Furthermore: he convinced Brooke to move to Chicago so her mother could help raise the baby, he would later move to Chicago in order to be closer to Brooke and the baby, and it was the fact that he had spent so much time with the baby and had been so involved that caused Brooke to let him pick the godparents. The only time Kelso was "off the hook" from being in the baby's life was around the first few weeks of Brooke's pregnancy, which gave Kelso time to realize that he did want to be involved.
134	* So Eric and Donna realize that they weren't ready to get married but are ready to move in together so they make plans to move to Madison. However Red's heart attack ultimately sets the stage for Eric and Donna to remain in Point Place so they can still be together without long distance. At one point Donna suddenly throws it in Eric's face that she stayed and that he hasn't talked about the wedding in months. Which is baffling because they agreed that they weren't ready and they never discussed putting the engagement back on until Donna thew her fit. Which leads to the question why did Donna assume that the engagement was back on, when she agreed with Eric about not being ready to get married?
135	** I don't belive the engagement was ever cancelled. What they agreed they weren't ready for was getting married within a week (at Red/Kitty's urging). Presumably they were still planning to get married in the near or semi-near future. Also, if we are thinking of the same episode, Donna's "fit" was less about the wedding planning and more about the fact that Eric was lying about working late to play poker and get special treatment from her and his mom. Donna definitely overreacts at times, but that wasn't one of them.
136	* In the season 2 finale, Moon Over Point Place, why does Hyde give such a shocked reaction when Jackie reveals to him that she has a bag of weed? Both of them and everyone else smokes it in the basement regularly. I would have guessed something harder from his reaction, but the season 3 premiere explicitly says it's marijuana.
137	** It's possible that he was just shocked at the idea of her buying it herself over her accepting it when offered and then just couldn't wrap his head around it.

Context Headscratchers / That70sShow