| 1 | Please put any Headscratchers for the sequel on the [[Headscratchers/TalesOfSymphoniaDawnOfTheNewWorld Tales Of Symphonia Dawn of the New World Headscratchers]] page. |
| 2 | |
| 3 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 4 | |
| 5 | [[folder: Why would Kratos agree to trust Sheena?]] |
| 6 | |
| 7 | * At that point, his goals were to make sure that Colette completed the Journey of Regeneration successfully [[spoiler: and that Lloyd stayed alive]]. But he 1. doesn't know that Sheena is trustworthy (the fact that her closing remark is "You'd better watch out so you don't lose your head while you sleep." is rather telling of her attitude at the time) and 2. [[spoiler: recognizes that Sheena is probably from Tethe'alla]]. As soon as they befriend Sheena and she reveals [[spoiler: the two worlds]] to the group, they become a lot more demotivated about completing the ritual successfully - she practically single-handedly gave them a good reason not to save Sylvarant using the Regeneration Ritual. Raine had already voiced her displeasure so it could have easily been a "Us adults all think this is a bad idea" scenario, even if Colette is unhappy about the situation. In fact, all of the times we encounter Sheena as an enemy, Raine seems to express far more objection to Colette's desire to befriend her than Kratos does. |
| 8 | ** By that point, Kratos had figured out [[spoiler: that Lloyd is his long-lost son]], so he might have already started his HeelFaceTurn and realised that if the party knew about Tethe'alla, it would set into motion a chain reaction that could finally topple Cruxis if they attempted to defy the cycle. He had to keep Colette on the Journey of Regeneration for his cover, but since he had clearly figured out where Sheena was from, it seems like letting her explain her side of things would work into his plan. Plus, she might give him more information on the Renegades, since Kratos must know they're the only ones with the technology to transport someone from one world to another and he didn't know at that point [[spoiler: Yuan]] was the real leader. |
| 9 | |
| 10 | [[/folder]] |
| 11 | |
| 12 | [[folder: Kratos' statement is confusing]] |
| 13 | * At the end of the game, right before Kratos leaves for Derris-Kharlan, he says, "If a half-elf of Cruxis remains here, the other half-elves will have no place to live." But Kratos is explicitly not a half-elf. Moreover, Yuan, who ''is'' implied to be a half-elf, does stay on the newly regenerated world. |
| 14 | ** It's probably Kratos' way of repenting for his sins, which actually goes against a lot of what the game's message is, if you think about it... |
| 15 | ** Kratos might have been born a human and lived that way for almost 30ish years of his life, but for all intents and purposes now he's basically a half-elf with round ears as he has magic and a very long lifespan. Yeah he gained that from Aionis and not Elven blood but try arguing that to a human or elven angry mob without digging himself into an even deeper hole. "I'm not a half-elf I just have all the perks of being one because of my former association with the guy who made your lives very unpleasant and nearly destroyed the world." probably wouldn't be something that would make them see him any better. He might figure it would be best for everyone, Lloyd and half-elves alike if he just left and didn't get anyone else in trouble by association. Yeah Yuan stayed anyway but he hadn't been an active member of Cruxis for a long time and was running his own thing. Also he just might not have cared if anyone was hurt by association if he stayed or not. |
| 16 | |
| 17 | [[/folder]] |
| 18 | |
| 19 | [[folder: Whats with all the FantasticRacism against half-elves?]] |
| 20 | * Why are elves okay, and humans okay, but elves mixed with humans are bad? Especially on the part of the elves. It makes as much sense as black people discriminating against multiracial kids. And furthermore, how does Raine's mother get off the hook? She was with a human long enough to have not one, but two kids. If we accept the logic that half-elves equal bad, then multiracial couples should be just as bad. |
| 21 | ** I suspect it has something to do with how isolationist the elves are- they never leave their one town, remember, the only interactions come from the few humans that visit them, and the few elves that might occasionally leave. This, along with what we see of elves, indicates some sort of fundamental difference- likely psychological, but also probably having to do with lifespans, half-elves living much longer than humans but much shorter than elves, between elves and men that makes it impossible to co-exist for lengthy periods of time, which works fine when there's a whole other society to banish to. When the kid is half-elf, and thus too different from ''both'' sides to live with either, it causes tension. No matter the origin of the hatred, though, remember that it became self-propagating once Mithos fell from grace and began Cruxis and the Desians. |
| 22 | ** You seemed to be referencing black Americans in your example, but that's not a good equivalency at all, for ''so'' many reasons that I'm not touching it. Let's put it this way: if a person of random race X has children with a person of random race Y, they hopefully love their kids, and probably wouldn't discriminate against other children who are half X/half Y, however there is ''no'' guarantee of that, nor is there any guarantee about how other members of race X or Y would receive said children. Additionally, the race relations between humans and elves aren't elaborated on at length, but judging by the way humans are treated in the elven village, elves ''are'' racist toward humans, and it's quite possible (and even probable) that the racism is reciprocated by humans. The thing is, elves apparently self-segregate, so it's not as much of an issue. Just because elves aren't immediately executed without proper trial the way half-elves are doesn't mean humans and elves get along at all. Nobody said racism was smart or rational. Also, Raine's mom ''didn't'' get off the hook. She was ostracized from the elven village along with her kids and lived in Exire in a flying ghetto composed mostly of half-elves (and presumably parents of half-elves). |
| 23 | ** It really does seem a bit strange that half-elves enjoy little popularity even among humans who don't mind elves and elves who don't mind humans. But it's not as though racism is logical in any case. This 'verse just has a different kind of illogic behind their illogical prejudices. |
| 24 | ** The elves still choose to live in near-isolation and are barely mentioned by human civilians. It may have something to do with In-Series Squick with InterspeciesRomance. |
| 25 | ** The writers were obviously trying to make a point with basically everything you said above. As a player, you're an outsider looking into another world. The incompatibilities between the races are meant to seem ridiculous in order to make us consider how racism would appear to an outsider of our society. Compare the treatment of half-elves to the treatment of mixed-race children in ''Literature/ToKillAMockingBird''. |
| 26 | ** But Genis and Raine do point out more than once that elves and humans are different species. Half-elves are shunned ''because'' they are different from both humans and elves. The fact that elves and half-elves age much slower than humans do indicates they don't have the same structure as humans. Plus, humans can't use magic unless they have either elven ancestry or use artificial means of imbuing themselves with magic arts. |
| 27 | ** There's also the bit that the declining world (and possibly the flourishing world) know that the Desians are half-elves, and so hate and discriminate on that basis, therefore never getting to know half-elves. This reminds me of a skit, during the Desian's attack Iselia, where Lloyd says something to the effect, "D*** half-elves, why do you do such things," while Genis, his friend who he doesn't know is a half-elf, cringes. As for elves, I got the feeling they don't like change, and who are the two characters that produce the most change for the elves? The aforementioned Mithos (half-elf) and Lloyd (human mother and technically human father, but [[spoiler:one who has ingested enough Aionis that he can use magic and has been around for 4000 years]]). |
| 28 | ** Note that ''VideoGame/FireEmblemPathOfRadiance'' and ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemRadiantDawn Radiant Dawn]]'' have similar prejudices towards mixed blood -- while humans and laguz don't like each other in general, it's the Branded, or the human-laguz hybrids, that get the worst of the prejudice. |
| 29 | ** It seems to me though that no one can tell the difference between elves and half elves. I don't see how half elves can't hide their lineage by moving every couple of decades. |
| 30 | ** Just spitballing here, but from a practical standpoint it makes sense that Elves would want to discourage Half-Elves from existing. Since Humans outnumber Elves significantly, Elves interbreeding with Human is both inevitable and detrimental to the Elves. As their descendants breed with humans Elves will eventually cease to be a distinct race. There will be quarter Elves, 1/8th Elves, 1/16th Elves... Each successive generation will be less long lived and their magical powers will probably fade as well until they are functionally humans. Of course, pure Elves could counter this simply by breeding between each other more often, but if the apparent lack of change centuries later in Phantasia is any indication they seem unwilling to do anything to advance themselves or compete with humans in any way. |
| 31 | |
| 32 | Humans on the other hand it's easy to see Half Elves being discriminated against simply because they have powers that give them a massive advantage over humans, deciding to oppress Half Elves to keep themselves on top. |
| 33 | |
| 34 | Whether these are actually the reasons or not, Discrimination tends to snowball once it starts until whatever the reasons it might have come into being the Discrimination sticks around even when those reasons cease to have any validity whatsoever, if they ever had any. |
| 35 | ** Discrimination against persons of interracial heritage exists in the real world. Apartheid-era South Africa even had a legal designation of "Coloured" for persons of mixed African and European heritage, and they were third class citizens under South African law, behind whites and Asians, but ahead of native Africans. In Japan, being of Japanese heritage mixed with another nationality or ethnicity can expose you to discrimination. |
| 36 | ** This is mostly using info from Phantasia which is well into this world's future but there at least it's implied that Elves don't care for Half Elves because they have the powers of being an Elf (a long lifespan and magic) but have more of a Human mindset than an Elven one. Elves live in isolated peace using their magic for work purposes only, at least according to them. It's mentioned that Elves were initially okish with Half Elves until one of them used their magic to murder someone which is a Elven taboo and hence they considered all Half Elves dangerous from then on. Whether this is Nature vs Nuture is debatable, but that's how the Elves see it at least. Note that Elves aren't all that fond of Humans either, there's a reason they live in isolation. When Cress's group needs to meet with the Elves they aren't really happy they have to let a Human into their village either but suck it up because they need their help to stop Dhaos from destroying everything. But since Humans only live a fraction of their lifespan and have limited power Elves aren't afraid of them like they are Half Elves. As for Humans vs Half Elves that seems to mostly just be old fashion jealously of their lifespan and powers and general bigotry. |
| 37 | [[/folder]] |
| 38 | |
| 39 | [[folder: Why did nobody question Kratos' behavior]] |
| 40 | * [[IdiotHero Lloyd]] aside, why does no one question the way Kratos acts regarding Anna during the Asgard human ranch segment (the "Mustn't speak ill of the dead" line in particular)? |
| 41 | ** Lloyd questioned it? He's more genre savvy than I remember. [[GenreBlind That's probably the answer, incidentally]]. Like one FAQ writer said, "[[spoiler:Say, you sound pretty enraged for a person with no relations with Lloyd]]." |
| 42 | ** Actually, Raine questions Kratos' presence during a skit that can be triggered in the first part of the game. She asks him why he's traveling with the group, and he simply responds that he's a mercenary and consequently in it for the money. She seems doubtful of his explanation. Makes sense, since she's the most cynical and least trusting member of the group to that point, Kratos himself excepted. |
| 43 | ** I meant Lloyd had his questionable intelligence as an excuse for not doing so. |
| 44 | ** The "Kratos... angry?" skit makes note of how Kratos is acting, at least. When the character note that he's pissed and try to find out why, he loses his cool and yells at them, leaving everyone shocked. That's probably why they didn't pursue it more. |
| 45 | |
| 46 | [[/folder]] |
| 47 | |
| 48 | [[folder: What's up with the summons?]] |
| 49 | * What the blazes happened to Celsius? She's there for ''Symphonia'' and its sequel, but there's no explanation as to her whereabouts in ''Tales of Phantasia''. She's not so much as mentioned. |
| 50 | ** In the time between ''Symphonia'' and ''Phantasia'' the art of Summoning has been almost entirely lost. Klarth is the only person actively pursuing it, and if you believe him, almost no one in the magical research community believes it's even possible. Spirits are known to exist, but at the same time, some important spirits (notably Origin) are thought to be completely mythical. Even the folks in Alvanista's magical research lab and Midgard's Magitech facility don't seem to know that much. It doesn't seem implausible that after 4000 years her existence would be forgotten, and the characters never ran across any old books/ruins/random magical researchers who knew about her, so they just never had a reason to go looking for her. |
| 51 | ** We know that ''Symphonia'' is a prequel to ''Phantasia'', and as such, the summons are the same guys. So, what happened to them over the 4000 some-odd years between the two games? Sylph loses a part of herself (literally), Shadow practically dissolves, Undine goes from demure female mage to 8-year-old with a [[{{BFS}}]], and most confusingly, Gnome goes from a large mole with a propeller to a large collection of missiles. What happened to them? |
| 52 | ** Considering the state you find him in in ''Symphonia'', poor Shadow might just be ''really'' bad at holding his form together, hence the 'dissolving'. |
| 53 | ** Gnome in ''Phantasia'' is in a very Japanese stylized form of a mole. See [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Diglett]] for a comparison. This doesn't explain the change, but yea... |
| 54 | ** I've heard that Gnome is like that in ''Phantasia'' because of a comment he made in ''Symphonia'' about how 'four against one' wasn't fair. Might be stretching it a bit, but you never know. |
| 55 | ** Sheena informs us that a Summon Spirit's physical appearance is not immutable. They can appear however they want to appear. You'd probably get bored too after 4000 years. |
| 56 | ** That does not explain how some apparently gain and/or lose bodies. |
| 57 | ** It does, in fact, if you take "can appear however they want to appear" to its logical extreme. You're mistaking "weird" with "impossible". |
| 58 | ** 'Bored after 4000 years'? I wonder how [[spoiler:Kratos and Yuan]] feel... |
| 59 | ** They've had jobs to keep them occupied most of that time, at first serving, then undermining Cruxis. The summons, on the other hand, were just sorta sitting around being symbolic after Lloyd and co effectively fired them from the whole "seal-keeping and Regeneration-fueling" gig they had going for the last 4,000. |
| 60 | ** Gnome's transformation shouldn't really be surprising. He's nuts. |
| 61 | ** Also, whats up with Aska and Luna? Co-Light spirits in ''Symphonia'', with Aska doing nothing, by ''Phantasia'' they have their own jobs, Luna has gone from a demure woman to a bubbly teen in personality, and Aska is doing his job. |
| 62 | ** Influenced by another Summoner? Sheena was the first one they'd had since Mithos, but it could well be that at some point between those two games, there've been other Summoners who used their power. And maybe Luna is bummed now, and gets over it in a few millennia. |
| 63 | ** Obviously, Celcius turned into Gremlin. She's weird like that. And Ratatosk became Chameleon! |
| 64 | ** That makes sense, except Ratatosk became Pluto and Verius (tired of never doing anything) became Chameleon. |
| 65 | |
| 66 | [[/folder]] |
| 67 | |
| 68 | [[folder: Presea/Lloyd oddness]] |
| 69 | * Is it me, or is it weird that the dialogue you get when you have the highest relationship score with Presea is the most romantic of the choices? Colette and Lloyd have a sweet sort of non-chemistry, Lloyd and Sheena are all stupid and bumbling when it comes to love, Raine seems a bit exasperated by the fact that she's falling for this callow youth, but Presea and Lloyd are clearly doing some kind of epic love affair. "I will never have my lost time back." "Then we'll make up for it. Together." |
| 70 | ** The game most likely had that dialogue prepared well ahead of time... for ''Regal'' to say. Even if Presea is a perfectly good [[TheWoobie woobie]], she definitely has the least reason to turn to ''Lloyd'' for support or romance. |
| 71 | ** That actually seems pretty likely, they had the dialogue ready for Regal only to realise it might come across as a tad bit pedolicious. |
| 72 | ** Given Presea's real age and mental maturity well beyond her appearance, it's not all that unreasonable that she might actually have feelings for Lloyd. There's not really much of an explanation for Lloyd's half of it, though. |
| 73 | ** He does say that he admires her strength and the fact that she basically raised herself after her Dad got sick. Plus, there's the fact he empathises with her being an outcast in her village, since Lloyd himself was raised by a Dwarf and that made him different from everyone else. He does also say in a skit with Colette that Presea is "cute", especially WhenSheSmiles. |
| 74 | |
| 75 | [[/folder]] |
| 76 | |
| 77 | [[folder: What's up with the Chosen?]] |
| 78 | * Just a little something... The chosen is for Martel, right? Then, why they choose Zelos, a boy? I mean, yeah, the sister is just half-sister, but the Pope says that she would be fine, if Zelos dies, so there's no real problem in switch the Chosen One, no? So, the first question is why they didn't switch with Seles, seeing that for the Pope the change didn't matter. The second is... but if, instead of Colette, there was Zelos... Mithos would give Martel's soul to Zelos? I mean, all right, what matters is that she's alive again... and, obviously, if I was dead for 4000 years then one day magically alive again thanks to my little brother that chose to sacrifice thousands and thousands of people for me, not counting all the pain on the world and all the idealism thrown away, the last thing I would be shocked for would be why I'm in a male body instead of a female, but what the hell. |
| 79 | ** Actually, you're missing several points. The Chosen has several purposes; they're responsible for switching the mana flow, "sealing" the Desians and continuing the lineage. None of that depends on gender. Only the higher-ups of Cruxis know about using the Chosen as a physical vessel for the soul of a dead chick, and that's only if the Chosen is compatible, which, as the game shows, took 4000 years for Cruxis to manage through selective breeding (since they've been doing this for so long, I doubt they care if that generation produces a boy instead of a girl -- they'd just try again). The world in general thinks that Chosen ascend as angels, so the Pope would have no reason to prefer a female Chosen. Since Tethe'alla was not in decline, the only things the Chosen would have to do would be act as a church figurehead and continue the lineage -- already he wouldn't be a candidate. |
| 80 | ** First I assume Zelos was less important, as the Chosen of the prosperous world. Then I imagine they'd rather not use Seles anyway, given that she was the daughter of a half-elf; it'd have made all the discrimination and racism against half-elves lose a lot of credibility if people learned the Chosen had one for a mother. |
| 81 | ** It's implied that they're trying to get a "magical signature" (read: genetic code) as close to Martel as possible. Presumably Zelos was just that much closer to being Martel, so that his (ideally female) descendant would be... well, Colette, basically, since she proved compatible where no one else did. And if they had to use Zelos, well, it was a small sacrifice to make to have Martel back. |
| 82 | ** They also mentioned that Seles was sickly as a child. If she were to die as the Chosen, they would be left with Zelos as their only candidate for a Chosen, which would mean doubling back on their own decision, something Churches don't like to do; but if they don't make her Chosen, Zelos can fulfill his duties as a figure head for as long as they want him to AND they get to keep Seles around as both leverage and a Plan B. |
| 83 | ** The Cruxis bigwigs would not want her to be The Chosen for another reason: as a half-elf, she would live much longer than any of the other chosen, and given that she isn't compatible to be a vessel for Martel, it could lengthen the time before her lineage is continued. |
| 84 | ** It really wouldn't matter at all for Martel if she woke up in a man's body, because as Mithos explains (and demonstrates) in the game, "When you become a lifeless being, you can even control your appearance and growth." |
| 85 | ** I always just assumed that Zelos was only there to keep the cycle going until Martel's new body was found (in case Colette wasn't a suitable match). After that he'd probably become another one of Yggdrasil's mindless angels or he'd just be stuffed in a coffin and left in the Tower of Salvation. |
| 86 | ** The title of "Chosen of Regeneration" has a different meaning depending on whether the world is in decline or not. When it is, the Chosen is the person who fixes that. When it's not, the Chosen is meant to keep the linage going and pass the title down to their child. Zelos (and every other male Chosen, such as Zelos' father) pretty much exists for the 2nd purpose. And, before it's asked, Zelos says his father was the previous Chosen in his "Night in Flanoir" scene. |
| 87 | ** Think about it: if you were dead, and had been dead for thousands of years, would you honestly give a shit that you had been resurrected with something else between your legs? a Chosen girl or a Chosen boy doesn't make any difference whatsoever. |
| 88 | ** Well Chosens are picked because of their similar mana signature, right? And since they are born with a Cruxis Crystal in their hand (...which is Nightmare Fuel if you think about how that must work), I must imagine Chosens are chosen before they are born since Mana Signatures - and so they had no way of knowing if the Chosen would be a boy or a girl (for whatever reason). And since the public at large doesn't know that the Chosen is meant to be a vessel for Martel, it'd seem weird at birth to go "this Chosen's no good because he's a he"- and so Chosen the male ones remain to keep up the lineage. Whether or not they do the Journey too- who knows. Though it's likely since Zelos's feelings of worthlessness don't seem to stem from the fact that he's male. Remember, Mithos is not playing with a full deck after all. |
| 89 | ** In the flourishing world it is the Chosen’s role to marry as dictated by the Oracle and produce children to continue the Mana Lineage. So the Chosen in Tethe'alla does not necessarily have to be female. However, in the declining world, the Chosen will always be a girl. |
| 90 | |
| 91 | [[/folder]] |
| 92 | |
| 93 | [[folder: What's up with the coffins?]] |
| 94 | * In the intro, Remiel proclaims that Colette will be the seventh Chosen. But when you get to the Tower of Salvation... [[spoiler: there are a lot more than seven coffins...]] |
| 95 | ** Simple, he lied. He does that. |
| 96 | ** Maybe only 7 chosen were public, in times when the planet had been without Mana for a long time. |
| 97 | ** Or, perhaps the Chosen from Tethe'alla are a lot more pathetic than the ones from Sylvarant, and fail more often than the Sylvarant ones. The people of Sylvarant don't know about Tethe'alla so they'd only know the seven ones they have. |
| 98 | ** If the coffins belonged to the Tethe'allan Chosen, then I think it'd be the other way around: If you finish the journey and aren't a match for Martel, you get stuffed in a coffin. If you don't finish the journey, you were most likely killed along the way. I seriously doubt that Cruxis would care enough about the Chosen who failed to go retrieve their bodies. In this case, Remiel could be referring to how many Chosen from Sylvarant died before finishing the journey since the last time Sylvarant began to decline. |
| 99 | ** Also, the coffins may very well include each past chosen's traveling party. |
| 100 | ** No one alive in Sylvarant seems to realize that it used to have lots of magitechnology around a time when Tethe'alla was rustic, as would logically have happened before a mana flow reversal. Maybe Colette's the seventh attempt at a Chosen from this cycle, and the others came from previous reversals. |
| 101 | ** Or maybe the "coffins" don't actually have anything to do with the chosen. They could just be decoration. |
| 102 | ** I would guess that Remiel meant that if she succeeded, she would've been the 7th SUCCESSFUL Chosen. After all, the Journey of Regeneration isn't just for finding a vessel for Martel, but also for reversing the flow of mana from one planet to another, so that neither world ever becomes prosperous and/or advanced enough to pull a repeat the Ancient Karlan War. The 6 Chosen that Remiel mentioned must be the ones from Sylvarant that succeeded in the Journey of Regeneration. |
| 103 | ** Another possibility is the seventh person to receive the Chosen Title since the last time the world that prospered changed. |
| 104 | ** Oh, and another thing. Raine seems to have an idea of what they could mean, is that ever elaborated on? |
| 105 | ** The "seventh person to become the Chosen" title seems most likely, since the last vessel for Martel arrived 800 years ago, and according to Yggdrasill at one point, Tethe'alla has been prospering for too long. Marble mentions that the last Chosen was killed by Desians, which could indicate it happened in her lifetime, and it would be unlikely that only seven Chosen candidates were born in Sylvarant in the last 800 years. Then again, one would think that Sylvarant would remember that it used to be prosperous for some time. |
| 106 | ** They do remember that they had periods of prosperity. There are references to previous chosens successfully completing their journeys, and a discussion at the beginning of the game about the Desians supposedly breaking the seal that was put on them at the end of the Kharlan War. They just don't know why these periods of prosperity keep ending because they don't know about Tethe'Alla and the nature of the worlds' connection. |
| 107 | ** It's possible that while you're referred to as Chosen during your life, it's not a title you get to keep after death IF you have not regenerated the world. Only those who succeeded their journey of world regeneration are still referred to as Chosen in history. So all those coffins could be of unsuccessful chosens and chosens of the flourishing world too, but as they didn't complete a journey of world regeneration, most people wouldn't bother to still be calling them Chosen so Remiel doesn't count them. Why bother to have all those bodies there though... it's only WMG on my part but I believe that the one's mana signature doesn't disappear when they die, it lingers on their dead body, and Mithos wanted to keep all that mana close to where [[spoiler: he would attempt to bring Martel back]] as he not only needed a Chosen with the perfect mana signature to Martel's BUT enough mana from enough past Chosens to have the mana required to [[spoiler: bring someone back from a state of lifelessness.]] |
| 108 | |
| 109 | [[/folder]] |
| 110 | |
| 111 | [[folder:How does the sorcerers ring function for both parties in the Tower of Mana/Asgard Ranch?]] |
| 112 | * Ok, so IIRC it doesn't need to be used in the Asgard Ranch, but it is needed in the tower by both parties to burn the drapes. |
| 113 | ** The Sorcerer's Ring is one doozie of an artifact. My guess is that the party has a way (probably discovered by Raine) of transferring the ring to one group to another with magic. |
| 114 | ** There's probably just more than one. Why else are there element-switchers about? Yes, it's a holy artifact- doesn't mean that there isn't more than one sorcerer's ring. |
| 115 | ** There is more than one. Toize Valley Mine's equipment is expected to be used via a Sorcerer's Ring. |
| 116 | ** And they come free with being a Knight of Ratatosk (as a sidenote, really), so its possible that Summon Spirits can mass-produce them. Hell, maybe ''humans'' (or elves) mass produced them in the distant past. |
| 117 | ** Although the fact that your party never (noticeably) obtains more than one is a bit odd. |
| 118 | ** Actually, my theory is that when you obtain the Sorcerer's Ring, since you are playing the game from Lloyd's point of view, its singular since he only gets 1. There may well have been nine or more, and they took them all or at least nine. Then over the course of the story, each party member gets one. [[spoiler:Kratos probably ended up keeping his, and Zelos's got returned when he died (if he dies)]] |
| 119 | ** Or, you know, the burning with the Sorcerer's Ring was just a gimmick. They are just curtains, after-all. They could have one of the magic-worthy members burn them with their own fireballs, or simply tear them down. And as for the Toize Valley Mine, there were probably workers that manually hit those switches once upon a time. It could have just been luck that the Sorcerer's Ring reached far enough. (Otherwise, maybe one of the party members would have to scale up that thing to hit the switch. Or throw rocks at it.) |
| 120 | ** They put it through the BagOfSharing just like the rest of their inventory. |
| 121 | |
| 122 | [[/folder]] |
| 123 | |
| 124 | [[folder: Mana Cannons]] |
| 125 | * Why do people keep rediscovering and using the damn things? Track record: |
| 126 | ## First use in Great War. Killing of Great Karlahn Tree, enslaving of world to tyrannical dictator for 4,000 years and causing 1/2 of the world to be suffering at all times. |
| 127 | ## Second use during ''Tales of Symphonia''. Creates a giant tree which kills tens of thousands worldwide and untold property damage globally, then stops it. No net benefit, net detriment vast. Inspires the Sylvaranti Liberation Front to do horrible, horrible things to get one of their own in ''Dawn of a New World''. |
| 128 | ## Third use between Symphonia and Phantasia during Fenrir-Odin war. Utter destruction of much of the civilized world, leaving the rest helpless before a giant comet, thrusting mankind back to the dark ages. |
| 129 | ## Fourth use during ''Phantasia''. Comes damn close to killing the new Tree, destroys a city killing thousands. |
| 130 | ** The cannon was never fired at a city in Tales of Phantasia. It was fired at Daos' airborn army and took out half of it in a single shot, only for it to malfunction due to a severely drastic drop in mana levels. |
| 131 | ** To summarize, every time it is used it makes the world a worse place to live in for everyone. Thousands die, resources are consumed way too fast, and the user is hurt as much or more than the target. ''So why do people keep digging out the designs from old records and building the damn things?!?'' Why aren't said records and references in archives all labeled "warning, do not build, it doesn't end well"? The suffering caused spans an 8000 year period, shouldn't it be a fundamental part of their culture by this point that Magical Cannons = problem? |
| 132 | ** For that matter, why don't the spirits say/do something about it? They're supposed to be protecting the world in some vague way and moreover they're the ones that suffer when there's not enough mana around. Is Ratatosk the only spirit that isn't completely apathetic about the mortals screwing everything up by killing the World Trees? If for example, Origin was to show up with all the weapons and lightning and whatnot and say "Dude! Quit building this cannon, it's a bad plan!" I'd be inclined to take him seriously. |
| 133 | ** The thought process is probably "The guy with he biggest gun wins, right? And anyway ''I'm'' smart enough not to make the same mistakes that ''these'' people made! [[TemptingFate What could possibly go wrong?]]" |
| 134 | ** You have Symphonia's Mana Cannon entry COMPLETELY wrong- The Cannon fired in Symphonia SAVED countless people. The Tree was caused by forming all of the pacts, and the Mana Reactors of the operational Human Ranches giving the Great Seed Mana- causing it to give rise to the Berserk Tree- which was going to destroy the entire world. The Cannon fired at the Tree- destroying it, thereby saving many people- true, lives were lost in the tree event, but many more would've been if it wasn't for that gun. The Vanguard wanted it- because it made "World Destroying Tree" go BOOM. |
| 135 | ** Fair point there, but remember that the goal was to ''stabilize'' the tree, making everything hunky-dory again and ending the journey right there- not turning it into a seed again. So in that respect even at its most successful point it ultimately failed miserably, succeeding only at returning the previous troubled status quo (and inspiring a literal Reign of Terror in the vein of the classic French one 2 years later). |
| 136 | ** This one's easy enough. HumansAreMorons. HumansAreBastards. Humans are drawn to big power destructive things like moths to flames. Give them a problem that superficially looks like it could be solved with the application of overwhelming force, and add to that legends/records/memories of [=BFGs=]. It's a ForegoneConclusion. |
| 137 | |
| 138 | [[/folder]] |
| 139 | |
| 140 | [[folder: The Wonder Chef]] |
| 141 | * Seriously, the smeg? What is he? How is he capable of traversing the world and between worlds? Is he some sort of cooking ninja exile who stowed away on their rheirds? Is he a summon spirit? Why does he hide as inanimate objects? NOTHING about him makes any sense. |
| 142 | ** The Wonder Chef is a warrior of the kitchen who is in an eternal struggle with the "Dark Chef Alliance". I only wish that was a joke. |
| 143 | ** He's the highly eccentric [[AnthropomorphicPersonification Summon Spirit of cooking]]. He ate Arche's cooking one day and it was so bad that it retroactively made him crazy for all time. [[ShmuckBait It's probably best not to ask about the "wonderful world of flavors."]] |
| 144 | ** Similarly, what is "the wonderful world of flavors"? |
| 145 | ** And why did his recipes suddenly become limited to {{Mons}}? Especially considering how many cooking skits still exist? |
| 146 | ** The developers hit upon the FridgeLogic inherent in stopping between a boss's [[OneWingedAngel forms]] to cook and eat some fish stew [[HyperactiveMetabolism to heal up]]. In comparison, cooking for your monsters to improve happiness makes total sense. |
| 147 | ** I have a few different theories. 1)He knows how to travel between dimensions and most likely, between locations at great speed. 2)He isn't one person, but many people. 3)He is some sort of mystic being that is summoned by those special Wonder Chef objects. |
| 148 | |
| 149 | [[/folder]] |
| 150 | |
| 151 | [[folder: What industry is the Lezareno Company in, exactly?]] |
| 152 | * The products it is known to produce are... eclectic. Handcuffs, cologne, healing gels, ''trick iron maidens'', specialty clothing that's magically enhanced to offer protections beyond its scanty appearance... |
| 153 | ** I suppose Lezareno became big in one or two fields and then tried their hand at franchising and/or bought up a lot of smaller companies. So Lezareno doesn't actually make all that stuff, but they slap their name on it because they own the companies that do. |
| 154 | ** I figured it was a logical extension of what Microsoft's gonna be in about 20 years. HEYO~~- okay, sorry, that wasn't necessary. In all seriousness, they're one of those "WeSellEverything" companies. If there's a real-life parallel, I can't think of it... |
| 155 | ** In Japan, Mitsubishi doesn't just sell cars. They sell a wide variety of products, seeing as they are one of the zaibatsu. The Lezareno Company is a company that is like a zaibatsu, not like a western company. |
| 156 | ** To give another example, Yamaha, another Japanese company, makes things ranging from motorcycles to...flutes. My guess is the Lezareno is there to see just how far they could take the zaibatsu idea, possibly poking a little fun at the idea. |
| 157 | |
| 158 | [[/folder]] |
| 159 | |
| 160 | [[folder: What is up with Dwarves?]] |
| 161 | * I mean, is it just me, or are Dirk and Altessa the only two dwarves in the entire universe? Where do the dwarven vows come from if there's no dwarf society? |
| 162 | ** Its mentioned that most dwarves were working for Yggdrasil, so they're probably in the factories of Derris-Karlahn. Alternatively, they're in massive underground cities, and Dirk and Altessa are the only two surface-dwelling dwarves. |
| 163 | ** So how did Dirk and Altessa end up living where they do if all the other [[strike: reindeer]] dwarves have been working for Yggdrasil for the last 4000 years? And wouldn't having masses of dwarves running around be problematic for Yggdrasil, given his stated goal of making everyone the same? Alternately, if dwarves have huge underground cities, why do we never see or hear any sign of them, and why don't Dirk and Altessa live in these cities? Since dwarves are renowned as fine craftsmen, you'd think people would by trying to trade... especially in Tethe'alla, where the humans are technologically advanced and actually have good stuff with which to barter. |
| 164 | ** I can only answer one part of that- why Dirk and Altessa were where they were. For Dirk, he was on the surface near the Ranch (most likely making a delivery of some sort), found baby Lloyd, and stayed in the human lands to raise him. As for Altessa, he made Tabitha, and Yggdrasil wanted her as far away as possible from anywhere he might personally be, as she reminded him that he still didn't have Martel back. |
| 165 | ** Dwarves, those who don't work for Cruxis (as Altessa did), generally live underground. You can see evidence of these dwellings in ''Tales of Phantasia'' and ''Dawn of the New World''. Dirk decided to live aboveground for Lloyd's sake. |
| 166 | ** If you talk to Dirk a some point he says that he misses living underground. |
| 167 | ** It's a safe bet to say that they have at least one underground city. It's mentioned that the Tozine Valley Mine is near the entrance to Moria, and... well, if you know anything about ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'', the name should speak for itself. |
| 168 | |
| 169 | [[/folder]] |
| 170 | |
| 171 | [[folder: How Does Regal Change Clothes?]] |
| 172 | * The guy walks around in shackles 27/7 in the first game, yet there are 3 alternate outfits for him (or 4, depending on which version you're playing). How does he change his clothes when those shackles should stop anything on his upper body coming off? |
| 173 | ** With assistance. If you'll notice, he has buttons down the back of his shirt, someone just slips the thing on and buttons it for him. Possibly Presea, possibly whoever the smeg you ship him with. |
| 174 | ** That doesn't quite change the fact that he's ''still shackled'' |
| 175 | ** Look, it all makes sense except the sleeves. Just mentally put him in a tank top and it all comes out smooth. |
| 176 | ** Aha, solution to how he changes his normal clothing (but nor the formal outfit however). [[http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f378/Twisted_Spirit/Games/Tales%20of%20Symphonia/Regal%20Bryant/t-R_gal_01.jpg He has laces on his sleeves]] |
| 177 | ** I... I just realized that Regal is wearing a top... |
| 178 | ** Yeah, it's the sleeves. If he can cook with those shackles, then he can probably lace those easily enough. Also [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial (not that I've been looking)]], his trousers are really low, making them easy to remove as well. |
| 179 | ** It's topologically possible to remove one's clothes while wearing shackles (it's actually an interesting little puzzle). |
| 180 | |
| 181 | [[/folder]] |
| 182 | |
| 183 | [[folder: Why does Yuan try to kill Lloyd in the Tethe'alla Base?]] |
| 184 | * Wouldn't that mess up his plan to use Lloyd to force Kratos to release Origin's seal? If he had killed Lloyd, what would he have said? "Hey, I just killed your son, you have nothing to live for anymore, do what I say"? |
| 185 | ** Battles against named boss characters rarely cause the death of that boss upon defeat, so one can assume it goes both ways. Yuan was simply trying to incapacitate Lloyd for capture. |
| 186 | ** Plus, if Yuan hadn't have fought Lloyd, it would have looked suspicious. |
| 187 | |
| 188 | [[/folder]] |
| 189 | |
| 190 | [[folder: Mithos and Colette look like HalfIdenticalTwins]] |
| 191 | * Was their resemblance part of a plot point that was cut from the final game? |
| 192 | ** Definitely a plot point. She was designed to have an identical mana signature to Martel, Mithos' sister, and so she physically resembles Martel as well. The entire purpose of the Chosen system was to produce someone who was identical to Mithos' sister. |
| 193 | ** Then what about Zelos? He isn't identical to Martel. |
| 194 | ** He's not, but his descendants might have been. The Chosen line is carefully manipulated by the Church of Martel to eventually have someone who is close enough to Martel that she can inhabit the body. [[FridgeBrilliance This may also explain]] why Zelos is so pretty: he's been bred for that. The entirety of the Chosen line is basically a complex eugenics program. |
| 195 | ** The picture of Zelos' mother in his house appears to be blonde. It's possible that he and Seles merely got their father's bright red hair and other possible features. Of course, this is pure conjecture. |
| 196 | ** They might also dye their hair. If you imagine Zelos with blonde hair, he looks a lot like Yggdrasil, and Seles looks a lot like Colette. Or, hair color and other physical traits have nothing to do with the mana signature. |
| 197 | |
| 198 | [[/folder]] |
| 199 | |
| 200 | [[folder: What stopped Kratos from killing Kvar after what he did to Anna?]] |
| 201 | * He was presumably right there when Anna died. Kratos seemed to be in a position of relative authority afterwards despite everyone in Cruxis knowing of his relationship with Anna. What stopped him from shish-kebabbing Kvar for that until the events of the game? |
| 202 | ** [[BigBad Mithos Did]]. |
| 203 | ** He sure didn't seem to mind Kratos killing Kvar (and Magnius) later and destroying half the Desians' human ranches before Colette gave up her soul. |
| 204 | ** Kvar and Magnius are both Traitors, and presumably Mithos would want traitors killed, and Kratos is likely under the same circumstances as Yuan. (Magnius was trying to kill Colette and Kvar was helping Rodyle in his coup. He (Kratos) also couldn't intervene with the destruction of the ranches lest he blow his cover, and instantly jeopardize the entire plan. Mithos isn't stupid- insane, yes, but stupid, no. |
| 205 | ** Remember, the Desians are just pawns to Mithos. They really only have two purposes: 1) create exspheres, and 2) cause suffering for the Chosen, thus fostering the growth of his/her Cruxis Crystal. I doubt he really cares if a few ranches get blown up. |
| 206 | ** I doubt Mithos is all too attached to a bunch of sociopaths whose sole purpose is to wreaking havoc on the declining world. If Kratos would've skewered Kvar right there and then Mithos would've probably just replaced him with another flunkie. |
| 207 | ** Also, Kratos is one of Mithos' oldest friends and one of the Seraphim (the top 4 guys in Cruxis, Mithos being #1, Kratos either being #2 or #3, depending on how much Mithos likes Yuan, and Pronyma being #4 since she's the leader of the Desians). The only Grand Cardinal who seemed to have any real importance was Forcystus (he was a Desian hero), all the others are (for all we know) just a bunch of psychopaths. I doubt Mithos would really care if he killed a Desian. He'd probably assume Kratos had a good reason to kill him. |
| 208 | ** Pronyma isn't one of the Four Seraphim, as proved by the fact that Yggdrasil exclaimed that nobody but his old comrades may refer to him as Mithos, [[YouHaveFailedMe right before killing her]]. Although, seeing as she's the leader of the [[QuirkyMinibossSquad Grand Cardinals]], and therefore the de facto leader of the Desians, it really proves how little Mithos cares about them when he killed her. Also, for the record, the fourth Seraph is presumed to be Martel herself. |
| 209 | ** It was said somewhere Martel is the fourth. Also funny thing is number 4 means death in Asian culture,so it fits her as the 'absent' one here |
| 210 | ** ...Or maybe he was too busy running down the cliff trying to see if his son was okay? Because he HAD just fallen off it, you know. Priorities, people. |
| 211 | ** And now you got me imagining Kratos defying gravity and [[LiteralMinded literally running down the side of a cliff through sheer badassery]]. |
| 212 | ** That doesn't explain why he over a decade to kill Kvar. |
| 213 | ** Face it, he had just been forced to kill his wife, looked for his son and didn't find him, thinking him to be dead, too... the guy was probably to shocked and distraught at first. And then he continued to work for Yggdrasill, probably thinking that killing Kvar wouldn't change anything, so why bother. It isn't until he meets Kvar again and knows that his son is alive that makes him crack. |
| 214 | |
| 215 | [[/folder]] |
| 216 | |
| 217 | [[folder: That crown?]] |
| 218 | * Who did Raine get that ancient crown (the one that's traded to Koton) from? A former student, lover, etc., or what? |
| 219 | ** Former lover. It's also heavily implied that they did ''that'' by the Unicorn Scene. Other than that, [[NoodleIncident nothing else is known]]. |
| 220 | ** ...Is there any specific cutscenes of this, aside from the Unicorn and Selling it ones? 'Cause, uh, I can just imagine [[FlatWhat Genis' reaction]]. |
| 221 | ** Unfortunately, those are all the hints we get. Though it is widely accepted by fanon that Raine had a previous lover and/or may have had a night dalliance with Linar. |
| 222 | |
| 223 | [[/folder]] |
| 224 | |
| 225 | [[folder: Derris Kharlan]] |
| 226 | * [[VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia Dhaos]] came from Derris Kharlan, and was trying to stop, a parasitic relationship similar to that of Sylvarant and Tethe'alla. Wasn't Kratos' job stopping that from happening, though? Did he fuck it up? |
| 227 | ** Maybe Kratos fucked up and Karlan ran out of mana. Maybe Kratos decided he was old enough, and let a successor take over, and the successor fucked up. Maybe there were unforeseen problems that Kratos couldn't have known about which got worse until a new Seed was needed. Given how little we know, the possibilities are endless. |
| 228 | ** He probably forgot about it when he ran off to cameo in Vesperia. |
| 229 | ** According to ''Tales of Phantasia: Narakiri Dungeon'', Dhaos was the leader of a nation trying to stop a war between two other nations. The effort failed, and one of the warring countries fired off its experimental mana cannon...with the same tired results as ever other firing of a mana cannon in a Tales game. After that, he came to Aselia looking for a mana seed and ''VideoGame/TalesofPhantasia'' happened. What happened to Kratos in the time between ToS and the flashback in ND1 is a mystery. |
| 230 | ** Kratos went back to Derris Kharlan so he could destroy all Expheres there. That would include his own Cruxis Crystal. So, he was long dead by the time ''Phantasia'' happened, he "screwed up" just as much as Lloyd and co. did by "letting" Fenris and Odin rebuild the Mana Cannon. |
| 231 | |
| 232 | [[/folder]] |
| 233 | |
| 234 | [[folder:Lloyd's wings at the end.]] |
| 235 | * Seriously. ''What?'' I just... that came out of ''nowhere''. There's specific requirements and consequences to becoming an angel, and as far as I can tell Lloyd never went through any of them. |
| 236 | ** If you noticed at the end, when Lloyd [[spoiler:destroyed Mithos's Cruxis Crystal, a ring of sparkly sparkliness from the Crystal flowed into Lloyd's Exsphere. It's clear that Lloyd took Mithos's power at that point, so Lloyd had wings because of Mithos's essence in his Exsphere. Lloyd became an Angel for that reason.]] |
| 237 | ** Er, yeah, that, and Lloyd had the super special Exsphere that was above even Mythos's own? The Angelus Project? That also had a ''slight'' something to do with it. It didn't come out of nowhere, Lloyd was on his way becoming an angel throughout the entire game. |
| 238 | ** Also,from a genetic point of view,ho boy! Being conceived from a test subject who has already been experimented on for some time (and genes can mutate or change if exposed to a factor for a constant time) AND from a [[spoiler: 4000 year old being who was affected so long by a Cruxis Crystal]]. It only makes wonder why Lloyd was born HUMAN and not something else! |
| 239 | ** It depends on whether or not their gametes were affected. If they were unaffected, or the DNA in the reproductive cells were altered only slightly, then Lloyd being human is not that surprising. |
| 240 | ** Lloyd's wings are also different from the others in that they're much wider (each one's span is longer than Lloyd is tall), while the other angels and Chosen have smaller wings. |
| 241 | ** The answer is quite simple: Namco Fucked Up. The End. Perhaps there was some intention to hint at this, and then reveal it all in the end, but it got cut, and we were left with this. |
| 242 | ** [[spoiler: Kratos]] couldn't have affected the whole wings thing, as [[spoiler:he]] is technically still a human,and has no angelic DNA. If you removed [[spoiler: his]] Exsphere, [[spoiler: he'd]] go on aging like a normal human,and just die. So I think that the 'he got his wings from Mithos' theory is much more accurate, as Lloyd has no angelic genetic data; he's pure human. |
| 243 | ** There's also the fact that Origin specifically told him that his body, even with the exsphere, wouldn't be able to handle the power needed to drag back Derris-Kharlan, and presumably making the whole thing very painful to do. Since creating an angel seems to require a great deal of suffering on the angel-to-be's part... that and all the other reasons listed might have something to do with it. |
| 244 | ** Sure this is WMG, but this is a case of clear answer is clear: He got them from his Cruxis Crystal. The Angeleus Project creates Cruxis Crystals- and Lloyd has the only fully complete Angeleus Project Cruxis Crystal. He's already equipped with a Key Crest (which removes the adverse effects of becoming an Angel/using an Exsphere (Remember: the only suffering angel we see is Colette- and she suffers because, in all technicality she's wielding an Exsphere WITHOUT a Key Crest, and you cure her of the problems caused by that by getting her a Key Crest)) so obviously, all Lloyd needed to do was tap into that particular power of his Exsphere/Cruxis Crystal. |
| 245 | |
| 246 | [[/folder]] |
| 247 | |
| 248 | [[folder:The warship in Palmacosta.]] |
| 249 | * [[FlatWhat What on earth is that thing supposed to be used for.]] It seems to be the only one of its kind, and no wars are being fought. The only reason for Palmacosta to have a military in the first place is the Desians, whom to the best of my memory have ''no'' coastal assets whatsoever on Sylvarant (Rodyle's base was on Tethe'alla, right?), yet it has a full, active and on-duty crew manning it. A ship-of-the-line like that seems far too excessive/expensively-maintained to just deal with aquatic monster problems, and the closest thing mentioned to a pirate in the game is [[ThePiratesWhoDontDoAnything Aifried.]] Finally, it appears to be the one and only example of Steam-based technology in the whole of Sylvarant. |
| 250 | ** Nope. Rodyle's base is in Sylvarant. |
| 251 | ** Do they know about it? |
| 252 | ** Well, it's right outside of town and filled to the brim with captives, so I'd assume they know about it. |
| 253 | ** Unlike the other ranches the Remote Island Ranch isn't a large building visible from a distance. It's pretty well hidden. They probably have no clue about it (not only because it's hidden but also because Magnius is a LargeHam that draws all the attention to ''his'' ranch). |
| 254 | ** I suspect the Desians actually have a navy that we don't see (The player only has to board a ship once in Sylvarant, and only uses the EC between when they're going back to Sybak and they complete the Tethe'alla Base), or at least that the Palmacostans keep the ship around so they'll be able to defend against an attack from the sea, or perhaps escort ships that might come under attack. |
| 255 | ** One of the reasons it was hard for the group to get a ship to Palmacosta was because of the fear of 'monsters' in the ocean. Now obviously we never saw those monsters, but they might have posed a big enough of a problem for Palmacosta to build the ship (it was a port city, and the largest in Sylvarant, after all). |
| 256 | ** Pirates probably still exist, regardless of whether you're in the Flourishing or Declining World. And let's be real here; you don't see what you prevent. It's the same reason defense contractors make so much money in the real world, despite us not knowing if funding them actually makes us any safer. |
| 257 | |
| 258 | [[/folder]] |
| 259 | |
| 260 | [[folder:What were the terms of Mithos' pact with Volt?]] |
| 261 | * According to Volt, Mithos' pact with Volt was broken, and he fights the party because he doesn't want a pact. As Mithos still has his pact with the other seven Summon Spirits and Maxwell, and only broke his contract with Origin by using the Eternal Sword for his plan, this would suggest that Volt's pact was somehow different from the others and Mithos did something to break it while upholding the others. |
| 262 | ** He broke all the pacts--that's why you're able to make new ones with them. Volt is just the only one who refuses to get a new one. Oh, and Origin is the only spirit proactive enough to actually withdraw his support when his pact was broken. |
| 263 | |
| 264 | [[/folder]] |
| 265 | |
| 266 | [[folder: What's up with the angel wings?]] |
| 267 | * It may be because I haven't finished the game, but I haven't seen any angels with actual ''bird'' wings like Remial does. Colette, Kratos and Mithos all have butterfly/dragonfly wings [[spoiler:(though the wings seem to get more featherlike the bigger they are)]]. Is it because Remial was a relatively low ranking angel? |
| 268 | ** As far as I can tell, an angel's wing shape is like a human's fingerprints; no two are anywhere near similar. |
| 269 | ** The feather wings are probably "for show," i.e. given to angels who will be appearing to humans in order to fit the image of an "angel." Other than that, neither seems any more effective than the other. |
| 270 | ** Actually, all of the enemy angels (the ones you fight in Derris-Kharlan and Vinheim, for example) have feather wings as well. I'd say it's a mixture of the rank thing and being for show. (Remiel was obviously higher rank than the mooks.) Or, kind of a stretch, it could be a symbol of their power. All the higher-ups have the mana wings and are stronger, while the mooks and Remiel have feather wings and are a lot weaker. |
| 271 | ** Colette, Kratos, Mithos, and Yuan are all Seraphim, and Seraphim have six wings (three sets). Presumably, only lesser angels have bird wings. |
| 272 | |
| 273 | [[/folder]] |
| 274 | |
| 275 | [[folder: Why did Mithos save the party at the Remote Island Ranch?]] |
| 276 | * Seems like it would have been much better for him to just let them die. |
| 277 | ** Because he could still use Colette at that point. But he could have just saved Colette and left everyone else, then. Not like they'd be alive afterward to come after him. So I guess that's not right.. |
| 278 | ** Or he could have been giving the party a chance to join him. Before he revealed himself as Yggdrasill, he was trying to coax at least Genis into joining his side. Wasn't that part of the point of him appearing as Mithos to them in the first place? Or maybe I'm missing something.. |
| 279 | ** Firstly, there was the fact that Colette was still usable, but secondly, I think it's just as important that Mithos was genuinely attached to Genis. He did, after all, give him his sister's keepsake to help call him, and Martel meant the world to him. |
| 280 | ** It's likely Kratos would have fully rebelled if he knew Mithos left Lloyd to die out in the Remote Human Ranch as well. |
| 281 | |
| 282 | [[/folder]] |
| 283 | |
| 284 | [[folder: 4,000 years between ''Symphonia'' and ''Phantasia''?]] |
| 285 | * I see 4,000 years between the two games quoted everywhere, but I haven't been able to find out where this number came from. I don't believe it's stated in either game. Was it revealed in some guide book or interview or something? Did fans just pull it out of thin air? |
| 286 | ** I think it's a case of AllThereInTheManual but I can't quite remember WHICH manual. |
| 287 | ** Both the OVA and the game itself give the exact year(s) ''Phantasia'' takes place in on the Aselian Calendar. Everyone assumes that year one started with the reunion of the worlds. |
| 288 | |
| 289 | [[/folder]] |
| 290 | |
| 291 | [[folder: Why do the Summon Spirits continue to support Mithos even after his vow is broken?]] |
| 292 | * Volt and Origin are the only ones who say their pact with Mithos was broken. All the rest are apparently still bound by the broken promise until the next summoner arrives, at which point they even tell her they can't make the pact because they already have a pact with Mithos; until she specifically requests they annul the previous pact, at which point they immediately accept. What about their behavior makes any sense? |
| 293 | ** Nature spirits in fiction are almost always shown to be extremely reactionary, only acting when they absolutely have to. |
| 294 | *** Only reactionary about half the time when the heroes head on over to get their help. The other half they're more proactive, which usually means the protagonists head over to tell the nature spirit to knock that shit off. |
| 295 | |
| 296 | [[/folder]] |
| 297 | |
| 298 | [[folder: How does Raine know about the Olfe Uprising?]] |
| 299 | * In the skit "There She Goes!", Raine claims the Olfe Uprising occurred 130 years ago, but then Regal says it's an important event in modern Tethe'allan history. So if the Olfe Uprising was in Tethe'alla, how does Raine know about it? |
| 300 | ** She was old enough to have coherent memory when her mother left her and Genis to be warped to Sylvarant. Maybe she was obsessed with history even then? |
| 301 | ** She's 23 in the game and said Genis, who's 12, was a newborn when they went through the Otherworldly Gate. That means she was at least 11 when she and Genis were sent to Sylvarant. That's plenty of time for her to have learned about an important event in Tethe'alla's history. |
| 302 | ** She's an archaeologist. Every time you stay at an inn in Tethe'alla, she probably spends the bulk of the night reading up on the history of this new world. |
| 303 | |
| 304 | [[/folder]] |
| 305 | |
| 306 | [[folder: How do Raine and Genis manage to pass for Elves?]] |
| 307 | * ...when they don't have pointy ears? Are there even any elves in Sylvarant? |
| 308 | ** If there are, nobody has seen them, considering that most, if not all, Elves stay in their village in Tethe'alla. And even there, the only people to have actually ''seen'' them are emissaries from the King. |
| 309 | ** They have weird hair and can use magic. Elves are uncommon in Sylvarant, half-elves even moreso. They probably don't know the difference and took it at face value. They hair also seems to purposely cover their ears. |
| 310 | ** Elves don't ''exist'' in Sylvarant, period. They might assume Raine and Genis are the last Pure-Blooded elves left, especially as Raine appeared out of seemingly nowhere with her infant brother. They may have assumed they were the last survivors of a natural disaster or raid. Raine let them think that to get their sympathy. |
| 311 | ** The people from Sylvarant know half-elves exist, so they must believe elves also exist on their world. They also "know" all half-elves are blatantly evil (since they only know Desian half-elves), so when a pair of half-elves show up with no malice and tell everyone they're full-blooded elves, no one has any reason to doubt them. They look like half-elves, but they're not evil like half-elves, so they must be the elves they never really get to see. |
| 312 | |
| 313 | [[/folder]] |
| 314 | |
| 315 | [[folder: So, Kratos and Anna...]] |
| 316 | * Did Kratos and Anna seriously travel around for 3 years + 9 months + however long it took them to decide to have Lloyd, without thinking to have a Key Crest made for Anna? She was just going around with a dangerous crestless exsphere that whole time, until someone finally decided to exploit it and turn her into a monster? |
| 317 | ** It's been a while since I last played the game, so I could be wrong, but I could've sworn that Anna was captured by the Desians after she had Lloyd and everything after that happened in quick succession. |
| 318 | ** Key Crests are Dwarven magitechnology, and nearly all the Dwarves above the surface work for Cruxis. Kratos and Anna spent 3+ years alternately running from Cruxis and the Desians, and looking for someone who could make her one that would work on her special Exsphere. Their enemies caught up right as they finally found someone, a Dwarf who was on the run from Cruxis as well. After it was all over with, he settled down on the surface to raise their child, as per Anna's dying wish. |
| 319 | ** As stated above, the best bet seems to be that they were intentionally looking for a dwarf in Sylvarant for just that very reason. The reason why they did this is that all of the dwarves that don't live in hidden underground cities (and maybe even some that do) are working for Cruxis. The only two dwarves that are not totally under Yggdrasill's control are Altessa and Dirk. Altessa has Tabatha, who is an attempt at creating a doll-like form for Martel. The only person who would have ordered this would have been Yggdrasill, so Kratos knew Yggdrasil knows where Altessa is and would ambush them if they went there. So they go to Sylvarant and desperately search for a dwarf. Cruxis knows this, and has Kvar and subordinates wait at the Dwarf's residence. When they show up, Kvar ambushes them and sets into motion the events leading up to Anna's death and the rest of the game. Kvar gets a promotion for this, with him ending up as a Desian Grand Cardinal. |
| 320 | |
| 321 | [[/folder]] |
| 322 | |
| 323 | [[folder: Shakespeare in Tethe'alla?]] |
| 324 | * In Meltokio, near Zelos' mansion, there's a noblegirl and a nobledude exchanging...Shakespeare. Completely ''unrelated'' Shakespeare, no less. The dude's going all Hamlet, and the girl is questioning why Romeo is Romeo. A. Yes, I realize it was, meta-fashion, the localization/translation team flaunting some 'speare, but...what the heck, there was a Shakespeare in ''TOS''? Or some Expy? |
| 325 | ** And two, they say it's a game. A game of...what, exactly? Exchanging random Shakespeare quotes that are completely unrelated? Hamlet ≠ Romeo & Juliet. |
| 326 | ** And if there WAS a 'speare in the ''TOS'' Universe, then when did he come about? Before or after the war? Half-elf? Human? Elf? Something else?! It just bugs me! |
| 327 | ** Also "Wherefore art thou Romeo" does not mean "Where are you, Romeo?" but "Why are you called Romeo?" |
| 328 | ** Ack. I had forgotten about that; my bad. Thanks, 'tis fixed. |
| 329 | ** Anyway my guess is Tethe'alla had its own equivalent of the bard who conveniently wrote the same stuff as him. Or perhaps Zelos himself wrote them as a way to kill time. |
| 330 | ** There's a carbon copy of every human being that ever lived on Earth in the ''TOS'' universe, just with a different name or something. Shakespeare is no exception. |
| 331 | |
| 332 | [[/folder]] |
| 333 | |
| 334 | [[folder: Are there other elf-human hybrids?]] |
| 335 | * There are half elves, sure, but they never mention any one quarter-elves or three quarter-elves. Surely in the past more than 4000 years there have been at least enough to be known. 4000 years is a long time |
| 336 | ** In ''VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia'' you meet [[spoiler: Edward Morrison's kids]] who are presumably quarter-elves unless his wife is also a half-elf. But yeah, it does seem like there should be more of them around. Maybe half-elves hook up with other half-elves or avoid having kids because the don't want to outlive them? |
| 337 | ** Perhaps quarter-elves and three quarter-elves et cetera just identify themselves as half-elves? Not to mention, with most of the elves of the world living in Heimdall (which barely allows human contact), there are probably fewer half-elves who actually one elf and one human parent than you'd first realize anyway. Or perhaps a half-elf has simply never (openly[=/=]knowingly) had a child with anyone other than another half-elf? |
| 338 | ** Zelos' sister is a quarter-elf. She is show to be treated as primarily human with the only stigma being attached to her mother. Other elven descendants would presumably be treated the same way. |
| 339 | ** A prime example being Sheena, since to be a summoner you need elven blood. |
| 340 | ** Sheena also mentions Kratos and Zelos must have elven ancestry to be able to use magic. |
| 341 | ** She's mistaken. They're pureblooded humans, but they ingested aionis to use magic. |
| 342 | ** That doesn't make it impossible for them to have elves in their heritage somewhere. |
| 343 | ** If they did, Aionis ingestion likely wouldn't have been necessary. |
| 344 | ** Maybe it amplifies dormant magical abilities. Zelos never specifies exactly what Aionis does. |
| 345 | |
| 346 | [[/folder]] |
| 347 | |
| 348 | [[folder: Do the Grand Cardinals not know who their own leaders are?]] |
| 349 | * Kratos and Yuan are basically second ''only'' to Yggdrassill, and yet no one, the Desians or the Grand Cardinals ever mention it? I think it would be a bit of a OhCrap for them to see one of your bosses suddenly come up to you. Heck, Kvar outright ''boasts'' over how Kratos killed Anna, and he's ''standing right there!'' You'd think he'd counter with a quick Judgment or something. |
| 350 | ** Everything above Pronyma is probably kept secret to preserve TheMasquerade. |
| 351 | ** Oh they know them. Kvar and Magnius are just stupid. Magnius recognizes Kratos ("You're... then I've been deceived!) eventually, and so does Forcystus. |
| 352 | ** All of them recognize Kratos, their wording is just ambiguous enough that the player is led to think they may just know him as a powerful mercenary, not their superior. As for how they act that way, Kratos had betrayed them a couple of decades prior, and coupling that with the fact he's a human, they probably looked down upon him even if he was their boss. |
| 353 | ** It's possible the Cardinals have only heard of Kratos and Yuan via word of mouth. Forcystus has trouble recognising Kratos even when Kratos is in front of him, but he figures it out because of Kratos' mana signature. It's possible that neither Magnius or Kvar have actually ''seen'' Yggdrasill's subordinates, they hear about them from Pronyma and Yggdrasill. Magnius didn't even realise Colette was the Chosen until Kratos and Lloyd specifically mentioned it in front of him, and Kvar was much more preoccupied with dealing with the Renegades than Lloyd's group. He got in a last dig at Kratos because he was dying and wanted to be DefiantToTheEnd, especially since it's hinted he was planning to break free from Yggdrasill's ranks along with Rodyle. |
| 354 | |
| 355 | [[/folder]] |
| 356 | |
| 357 | [[folder: The Penguinists. Just... the Penguinists.]] |
| 358 | * What in the name of Martel is UP with them?! |
| 359 | ** [[JerkAss Jerkasses]] in costumes? But no, actually, they're just a species of monster, that when you actually think about it... are some serious NightmareFuel. |
| 360 | |
| 361 | [[/folder]] |
| 362 | |
| 363 | [[folder: Why is it the Asgard Human Ranch and not the Luin Human Ranch?]] |
| 364 | * Especially since the ranch is nowhere near Asgard, and most of its human slaves are brought there after Luin is destroyed. It's a minor detail, I know, it just seems odd. |
| 365 | ** Most likely it is because Asgard is the most well-known settlement in that particular region of Sylvarant, given its connection to the Balacruf Dynasty and so forth. Iselia is a small little village, yes, but it also is home of the Temple of Martel. Similarly Palmacosta is the largest city in Sylvarant, complete with its own navy. |
| 366 | |
| 367 | [[/folder]] |
| 368 | |
| 369 | [[folder:Asha and the Tower of Mana]] |
| 370 | * When you find Aska first and go to the tower of Mana, you can't fight it if you didn't make a pact with the other summoned spirits. If you go to the temple of darkness and go to the seal afterwards, the characters will talk about Aska and how he is not in the tower of mana anymore even though he is! |
| 371 | ** This seems like a simple aversion of DevelopersForesight. They never accounted for the possibility of getting Aska to the tower before doing Shadow, because you're supposed to do light last. |
| 372 | |
| 373 | [[/folder]] |
| 374 | |
| 375 | [[folder:Regal's handcuffs]] |
| 376 | * How the hell does Regal fly a Rheaird with his hands tied together? Hell, how does Regal ''cook'' with his hands in shackles? I think the answer is that he's just gotten used to it. |
| 377 | ** For rheairds: We have no idea how these things are operated. For all we know, the handles are just to help you keep your balance and they're operated with your feet or even your mind. Also, seatbelts. For cooking, his hands are tied in front. He wouldn't be able to spread them very far and he'd have to be very very careful to avoid burning, but otherwise I don't see the problem. The only thing he'd need another hand for is steadying things, and he could probably get around that by holding it between his knees or getting Genis to hold it for him or something. |
| 378 | ** Actually, its outright stated by him that he uses his feet to cook. Since, ya know, he cant move his hands much. |
| 379 | ** He was joking. |
| 380 | |
| 381 | [[/folder]] |
| 382 | |
| 383 | [[folder:Chosen and the Cruxis Crystal]] |
| 384 | * How is it that the Chosen are born holding a Cruxis Crystal? Don't you need a human sacrifice to make those things? Besides, how did they get the crystal in there (if you get me)? |
| 385 | ** That was stated by Colette herself as "People say I was born with that in my hand", in the same scene where Remiel [[spoiler: is rumored to be Colette's father, which turned out to be false.]] Perhaps either 1) Cruxis started these rumors to make the Chosen One seem more mystical, or 2) these rumors began out of hearsay and speculation among the people themselves. Either way, it's probably best not to take it literally. |
| 386 | |
| 387 | [[/folder]] |
| 388 | |
| 389 | [[folder:Lloyd's last name]] |
| 390 | * Where did Lloyd's last name (Irving) come from? His mother only told Dirk his first name, and his biological father's last name is different unless he lied. Regardless, Dirk had no way of knowing their last names. |
| 391 | ** Three theories: one, it's Dirk's last name, two, [[spoiler:Kratos's family's last name has evolved in the last four thousand years and Kratos gave Lloyd the more modern version]], or three, Dirk met someone else who knew the family and thus Lloyd's last name (which could have come from either of Lloyd's parents). |
| 392 | ** Number Two makes the most sense as [[spoiler: Aurion becomes Irving becomes Alvein/Albane really feels authentic. I know for a fact Irish surnames do that.]] |
| 393 | ** It's Anna's last name. She most likely told Dirk her last name instead of [[spoiler: Kratos']] to protect Lloyd. [[spoiler: She and Kratos were most likely never officially married.]] |
| 394 | |
| 395 | [[/folder]] |
| 396 | |
| 397 | [[folder:Series Timeline]] |
| 398 | * How is ''Tales of Phantasia'' the future of ''Tales of Symphonia''? For one, we don't see Yuan or have any evidence of Kratos appearing at all. Yuan has no reason to die and would probably make a request to Lloyd to allow his Cruxis Crystal to remain intact, to remain as the guardian of the tree, as it's own spirit is a convergence of Martel and all the other Chosen who failed the journey. Kratos is busy destroying all the Exspheres on the planet and he's the only one ON said planet. How would someone else get on there, much less travel to Aselia? Second, Exire is apparently stuck below a mountain range. How did it get up into the sky and then end up underground later? I doubt the passage of time would have done this. not to mention the fact that the city looks a bit better than it did in Tales of Symphonia, without all the damage it seems to have taken there. Three, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Mana cannon was being MADE in ''Tales of Phantasia''. In ''Symphonia'', it was explicitly said that Rodyle was aiming to 'revive the mana cannon'. Not build, 'revive'. |
| 399 | ** First of all, we know of their connection due to WordOfGod. Secondly, all inconsistencies can be explained the same way ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'''s inconsistencies can- the games are meant to be stand-alone and were developed at way different points in time. Continuity is often thrown out the window for the sake of changes in technology, and general fun. For less meta explanations (from someone who's never played ''Phantasia''), you answered your own question with the Exire thing- it's the passage of time. Exire exists so that half-elves can have a place to be free. If air travel is widespread, wouldn't it make more sense to go underground? And if the city had to be rebuilt, of course it will look newer. As for the mana cannon, it's entirely possible that there was no one who knew it had ever been done before. |
| 400 | ** [[spoiler:It's possible that the first Mana Cannon was created during the original Kharlan war, 4,000 years ago.]] |
| 401 | ** Kratos takes the Desians with him onto Derris-Kharlan. In effect he fills the comet/planet with whatever angels are left that the party didn't massacre, a bunch of angry half-elves and whatever humans were in on their cause. Presumably they procreated and used the ex spheres to live despite Derris-Kharlan basically being a wasteland until they could cultivate it into something more habitable. Kratos himself would have doubtlessly had his cruxis crystal destroyed after a point (he says in the game he doesn't want Lloyd to die before him so he has to die at some point for Lloyd to die after him). As for Yuan he doesn't have a reason to live forever with the world finally regenerated as Martel wished it. If a person becomes an ex sphere entirely they also are limited to that ex sphere and can have no more interaction with it unless someone equips them. Exire was originally a city on the ground and was only raised by Maxwell at Mithos's request to create a sanctuary for the half-elves; if it was safer on the ground or even under it Maxwell would have taken Exire down there. So it shouldn't be too surprising to see Exire in a random place. Rodyle was fixing up the mana cannon from the Ancient Kharlan War that devastated the original tree. Whether the far future found the remains of this cannon or blueprints/legend of it I'm not sure what's stated in Phantasia (also haven't played that one). |
| 402 | ** When making a pact with him, Sheena asks Maxwell to keep Exire floating in the sky until the day that half-elves can be accepted in the world. Assuming this is realized between the end of ''Symphonia'' and the beginning of ''Phantasia'', Maxwell would no longer have a reason to keep it in the sky. If anything, Exire not being a floating city is FridgeBrilliance. |
| 403 | ** ''Symphonia'' is supposed to take place 8000 years before ''Phantasia''. Entire high tech/magic civilizations rose and fell between both games. Considering how we see the ability of people to change the landscape with magic in both games, it's no surprise that things changed a lot in such a long time frame. As for the mana cannon in particular, the technology is possible in that world, and it's quite a simple concept at heart. The fact it has been invented before, forgotten and then invented again is no big deal. If our current civilization deals with a huge destructive event that throws humanity back to the stone age, nothing will stop these surviving humans from eventually developing and creating an atom bomb just because it has been done before. |
| 404 | |
| 405 | [[/folder]] |
| 406 | |
| 407 | [[folder:What exactly is the boss Kilia?]] |
| 408 | * She claims to be a half-elf, but she's a purple shapeshifting bug thing. If she's half elf, what's the other half?! |
| 409 | ** She could be a lifeless being, or a master of shapeshifting magic. She might also be a variant of the Exbelua monsters, or just some other odd experiment from the Desians' warped minds. Regardless, it's likely that the purple bug monster isn't her true form. |
| 410 | |
| 411 | [[/folder]] |
| 412 | |
| 413 | [[folder:Half-Elf Features]] |
| 414 | * Why does a half-elf like Yuan have round human ears while other half-elves have pointed ears like elves? |
| 415 | ** Probably similar to genetics. Some half-elves may get more of the elven genetics, hence the pointy ears, and others may inherit the round ears from their human parent. |
| 416 | |
| 417 | [[/folder]] |
| 418 | |
| 419 | [[folder:The Ymir Fruit in the Ymir Forest]] |
| 420 | * Why does nobody just [[MundaneSolution pick the damn fruit out of the water]]? We have an ''angel'' in the party who can freaking fly, just go up there and grab the fruit. Why do we have to go this whole way round, just to end up picking the damn thing out of the water on the other side of the forest? And you can't seriously say the big fish were dangerous, they could've picked the fruit up before the fish even got close. |
| 421 | |
| 422 | [[/folder]] |
| 423 | |
| 424 | [[folder: Kratos/Zelos and magic]] |
| 425 | * Both Kratos and Zelos are humans who can use magic, an ability that is otherwise exclusive to those with elven heritage, and no one seems to question this. In Kratos's case, Lloyd does ask him about it at the end of the Iselia ranch, but that's long after they traveled together during the journey of regeneration, during which it logically should have come up at least once. Likewise, Tethe'alla's treatment of half-elves makes it clear that Zelos doesn't have any elven blood in him; it's likely that a huge scandal would erupt if it became known that the Chosen had elven heritage, no matter how slight. And either way, it's shown that elves and half-elves can sense the mana signatures of others, so Raine and Genis should have at least known something was up, and Zelos should have been refused at Heimdall. An explanation is eventually given (they both swallowed a chunk of Aionis), it just seems odd that (aside from Zelos' bogus explanation in Flanoir) it never comes up. |
| 426 | ** Everyone may have just assumed that they had such distant elven ancestry as to essentially just be humans with elven abilities like magic and mana sense. They wouldn't be the only such cases in ''Symphonia'' or ''Phantasia''. |
| 427 | |
| 428 | [[/folder]] |
| 429 | |
| 430 | [[folder:Why does Lloyd hate the word "justice"?]] |
| 431 | ** He doesn't hate the word itself, exactly; he hates how cruel and selfish people have a tendency to try to use it to justify all the evil they're going. It's in that context that he hates it. |
| 432 | |
| 433 | [[/folder]] |
| 434 | |
| 435 | [[folder:Why not use Colette's wings as proof of the Chosen?]] |
| 436 | * By the time you reach Palmacosta, Colette has already cleared one seal and earned her magic angel wings. In Palmacosta they serve as irrefutable proof that - unlike the recently-met imposters - she is the one and only Chosen of Mana. Why can't she prove her identity to Hakon, for a look at the Book of Regeneration... or just to the gate guards at Hakonesia Peak, so they'll let her through without a road pass? By all other indicators, holding up the Chosen's journey is supposed to be unthinkable for any respectable citizen of Sylvarant, despite what Kratos says about "those who reject salvation". Even Raine stops Genis from insisting that they're the real deal... but for no reason. We've got a built-in ID card. |
| 437 | |
| 438 | [[/folder]] |
| 439 | |
| 440 | [[folder: Half-elves in Tethe'alla]] |
| 441 | * Why does Cruxis allow half-elves to be subjugated, oppressed, and even used as sex-slaves (in the case of Kate's mother) by creatures they consider to be "inferior beings" on Tethe'alla? That kind of treatment is what led Mithos to rebel against humans and ultimately create Cruxis to rule over them and bring about an "Age of Half-Elves/Lifeless Beings." |
| 442 | ** Likely sheer [[DirtyCoward cowardice]]. They act like bullies, as they are only ever shown attacking humans weaker than themselves. Magnius even waits until most of Dorr's soldiers are out on a training exercise to [[MakeAnExampleOfThem hang Chocolat for her defiance]] [[spoiler: despite having Dorr in his pocket]]. Chances are the Desians would end up getting the shit kicked out of them or otherwise stuck in a ForeverWar if they tried attacking Tethe'alla. |
| 443 | ** A worse explanation is that they could be allowing or even exacerbating half-elf persecution in order to get more willing recruits for the Desians, especially if they can recruit directly from the enslaved half-elf scientists. Considering the Vanguard in the sequel used {{false flag operation}}s to gain sympathy for their cause, it's not out of the question. |
| 444 | [[/folder]] |
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