| 1 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 2 | |
| 3 | [[folder:Can't Troi Shoot Straight?]] |
| 4 | * Minor one, during Deanna's search for the Scimitar by mind-locating the viceroy. Why the need to play handsies with Worf? Didn't she go through a long and taxing bridge commander test way back when? Surely there was a chapter involving manning the tactical console. |
| 5 | ** That was on a Galaxy-class ship, though, and by Nemesis it's been ten years since then. There is probably a recertification process for bridge officers (especially when transitioning to an entirely different class) and it doesn't seem out of character for Troi (who struggled so hard the first time and clearly didn't require it to fulfill her duties beforehand) to quietly opt-out |
| 6 | ** Alternatively, considering its a major tactical situation, maybe it was more efficient? The battle was unlikely to be decided by that one shot, so as soon as the Scimitar decloaked, Worf would have to take back over anyway and they'd lose valuable seconds in Troi stepping aside and him stepping up compared to her just taking her hand away. Also, if the Scimitar was able to recloak again, they'd have to do it all over again, costing more seconds. Also, iirc (unless I'm remembering fanon as canon) - doesn't the LCARS interface used in TNG era ships mean that each officer can reconfigure the interface to their personal preferences? Maybe Worf's preferences are non-standard and to avoid confusion, Troi was also using her abilities on Worf to direct him rather than trying to figure out the console herself. |
| 7 | [[/folder]] |
| 8 | [[folder:I Hate the Romulans So Much that I will Defeat Their Greatest Enemy!]] |
| 9 | * Shinzon has a grudge against the Romulans for creating him, lumbering him with a genetic disease, and consigning him to a life of misery in the Reman mines. Therefore, he wants to utterly annihilate... er, Earth. |
| 10 | ** This was explained somewhat in the chunk of footage that was left on the editing room floor. Shinzon's lifespan was going to be pretty short even if he had succeeded in stealing Picard's blood, and he in fact killed most those responsible for his creation when he took out the Romulan Senate. His main goal was in fact to go down in history by destroying Earth, which would bring about the collapse of the Federation government and pave the way for a full-scale Romulan invasion. A bit of a hackneyed motive to be sure, but it makes ''much'' more sense than what we got. |
| 11 | ** His talk about the Remans being a race "bred for war" implies that he and they are basically a bunch of [[BloodKnight Blood Knights]] who want to start a war, this time on their own terms and not as slaves of the Romulan Empire. By extension they can be read as trying to show the Romulans up, taking out the Federation in one shot after centuries of similar Romulan plots failed. It's still pretty vague, though. |
| 12 | ** The Enterprise received six positronic signals, but only one of Data's components (his postrionic brain) would register such a signal. Each of B-4's parts also apparently has its own power source, if the "zombie hand from the sand" is any indicator. |
| 13 | * Also, after the Dominion War, it's probably not accurate to say that the Romulans would consider the Federation their worst enemies. Not to say they were the best of friends either, but they'd called a truce by then. |
| 14 | [[/folder]] |
| 15 | [[folder:Today is Not a Good Day to Die]] |
| 16 | * Why isn't Worf the one to go on the suicide run on the Reman ship? He lived through the last big war, and his religion actually ''requires'' him to seek a glorious death. In the other movies Picard being the one to go in is due to circumstances or necessity, but here it makes no sense. |
| 17 | ** Because he was still fighting off the Reman boarding party and in the novelization, a bad disruptor hit forced him into Sickbay; he was completely occupied in either case. Plus, he wasn't even on the bridge when Picard announced this decision, so he couldn't object even if he wanted to. |
| 18 | [[/folder]] |
| 19 | [[folder:All Too Easy]] |
| 20 | * Shinzon's MilitaryCoup makes very little sense in terms of the larger ''Franchise/StarTrek'' setting. How did the conspirators manage to get their conspiracy past the Tal Shiar, the ''notoriously'' intrusive StateSec agency of the Romulan Star Empire (who in particular have a nasty InterServiceRivalry with the regular military)? How were they planning to pass a human off as praetor to the frankly [[FantasticRacism quite racist]] Romulans, and how were they to explain where in the hell he came from and why he's using what ought to be SlaveMooks as his private army? |
| 21 | ** They literally state earlier in the movie that he must have had Romulan collaborators. |
| 22 | ** Presumably the order of events were 1) the Remans (and Shinzon) fight in the Dominion War as slave mooks and acquit themselves well, earning some respect from the regular military as well as opportunities to gain contacts with Romulans that might be amenable to working with them while the Tal Shiar is distracted by the massive ongoing conflict, 2) that meant that there were enough Romulans in the military who might be willing to listen to at least ''one'' of Shinzon's ideas for the future, whether the 'make the Remans more equal to the Romulans so their talents can be harnessed better against the enemies of the Romulan Star Empire', 'Destroy the Federation, our hereditary enemy' or 'Bring down the Tal Shiar's influence' (since at the very least they failed to stop the coup), 3) Shinzon might even have ''told'' some of his potential Romulan conspirators of his short life-span, meaning he wasn't going to be praetor for very long regardless of what happens, 4) the Tal Shiar was likely initially thrown into some confusion by the destruction of the Senate since it both killed their nominal superiors and might well have killed the actual leader of the Tal Shiar, and by the time they got things into order again, the Reman-augmented military was already in control. The Tal Shiar might well have been preparing for a counter-coup, perhaps using the fact that a human was in charge as a rallying cry... but Shinzon's regime fell apart in a matter of days thanks to his obsessions as it was ''anyway''. |
| 23 | ** Let's not forget one thing: The Tal Shiar presumably was in pretty bad shape at that timeframe. They lost a good deal of people and ressources in their failed attempt to whipe out the Founders. (See Deep Space Nine: Improbable Cause / The Die is Cast.) |
| 24 | *** Hard to say... despite what the Founders might have intended, the narrative of a weakened Tal Shiar doesn't really bear out in the remainder of the series. |
| 25 | [[/folder]] |
| 26 | [[folder:Shinzon Seems a Little...Confused]] |
| 27 | * Did [[Film/StarTrekNemesis Shinzon]] even ''have'' a motivation other than creating action scenes? The Romulans abused him, so he wants to conquer Earth and bring glory to their empire? His needing Picard's blood is apparently supposed to explain why he wants to blow the ''Enterprise'' into tiny pieces. Why didn't he just explain that he needed a sample of Picard's blood to live and ''ask nicely''? |
| 28 | ** No he did not. That's part of why Nemesis was so badly received. Even Marina Sirtis and [=LeVar=] Burton said it sucked. |
| 29 | *** Personal take: After [[DroppedABridgeOnHim dropping a bridge]] on the Rommie senate, he's basically the boss of the Empire. He wants to kaboom Earth because it's Federation Central, and the Feds are the main threat to his new-found property. |
| 30 | *** Except the Feds ''aren't'' a threat to him. They were enemies of the ''Romulans'' not Shinzon, and Shinzon had no reason to suspect the Feds had any ill will towards him at all. |
| 31 | *** The Federation weren't the enemies of the Romulan ''species''. They were enemies because the Romulan Empire was a large and aggressive military power that had previously shown a willingness to foment wars between other governments for their own gain. They have no reason to assume that Shinzon's administration would be any different, so they have no reason to back down on their defenses. They would probably prefer it if the Romulan Empire collapsed entirely. Shinzon knows this, so he considers the Federation a threat to his power. |
| 32 | *** "Shinzon's crazy, man." This. Shinzon also knows the Federation is primarily a pacifist organisation, who thus only arm/deploy Starfleet as a means of defence, not attack. Shinzon saw the entirety of humanity living the dream he should have lived, and in his crazed hatred, wants to turn the dream lives into a heap of black ash. |
| 33 | *** Plus, he had the help of Romulans in seizing power - most likely he said "if you support me as Praetor, I'll lead our military to the victories you've always wanted" or something like that. |
| 34 | *** Shinzon's crazy, man. |
| 35 | ** It was my understanding that taking what he needed from Picard would have resulted in Picard's death, as I recall it being said that he needed a full transplant. Picard needs to have some blood and marrow. I imagine they could have tried cloning the blood and marrow once they had enough (disregarding that cloning got them in this mess in the first place), but it would have still been a major and risky operation for Picard. Also, Shinzon was nuts. |
| 36 | *** If Shinzon was reasonably intelligent he could have easily taken what he wanted from Picard and the movie would be 10 minutes long. Just think about it. He has a ship that can fire when cloaked, so all he needed to do to get Picard was fire on the enterprise when cloaked taking out it's shields, beam Picard aboard and warp away. |
| 37 | *** Shinzon was too caught up in his own ego and in studying his progenitor to take the direct approach. At least once in the course of the movie, his Viceroy urges him to speed things along, but he's too busy being angsty. And [[MindRape mindraping]] Deanna for no reason. |
| 38 | *** Which goes back to my point that he's an idiot and [[JustEatGilligan the movie would be 10 minutes long if he was not.]] |
| 39 | *** It's called hubris, and it's a common ailment among fictional characters. |
| 40 | *** Among very bad and poorly written ones. It's not like with Khan, who also made much smaller mistakes due to his own ego and desire for vengeance, because he was still very competent and clever and our heroes still had to earn their victory. Shinzon's over confidence is so huge, he's absolutely incapable to get anything done and the only actual menace he creates comes from plot convenience and stupidity of our heroes. We never see him do anything actually clever, that would prove he isn't really that stupid and it's just his hubris that is preventing him from achieving his goals. |
| 41 | *** Shinzon wanted to be as great a hero to the Romulans (or at least the Remans) as Picard is to his people. The biggest thing you can do for the Romulans, especially according to an angry youth living in the shadow of a human, is overthrow the increasingly pacifistic government and hijack the military for total annihilation of Earth, AKA Federation City. |
| 42 | *** In that case, it might have made more sense to attack Qo'noS. The Federation has a history of going far out of its way to maintain peace, and may try to do so even after the Romulan Empire attacks their Klingon allies--especially in the wake of the Dominion War. The Klingons, having suffered heavily in that conflict, are probably still in a weakened state and unable to fight a long-term defensive war. |
| 43 | ** The scenes that would have explained Shinzon's motive were actually chopped out. According to those scenes, even if Shinzon had gotten the transplant he needed, it would have added only another decade or so at most to his life, since his genetics were still pretty badly warped. Therefore he wanted to do something '''big''' in the time that he did have, to ensure that his name would go down in history. His plan was to use his big badass ship to take out the Federation government and Starfleet Command on Earth, then launch a full-scale invasion. It's not a particularly original motive, but it shows that the screenwriter had at least put some thought into it - it just so happens that the producer and director thought it wasn't really ''that'' important to give their villain ("The best since Khan!") a backstory and a motive. |
| 44 | [[/folder]] |
| 45 | [[folder:B-4 and Other Silly Names]] |
| 46 | * Picard says B-4's name is typical of Noonien Soong's clever naming schemes, but Data and Lore refer to types of information, and B-4 is just AOLSpeak. B-4 is supposed to have less neural development, but should be just as intelligent and capable as any android lacking in personality, but instead he acts like a child, so he's meant to act this way for now until he gets out of this state naturally or by upgrading. Why do we care about B-4 as a new character if he's not much more than a Deus Ex Machina? Why do we care about Data's death if B-4 is an obvious way to negate most of it? The movie was hyped as a huge status quo change, but the end just sets up a reset switch. |
| 47 | *** And the switch is tripped sometime between Nemesis and the Abrams tie-in comic. B-4 is dead, and Data has his body. |
| 48 | *** B-4 is not dead, according to the Star Trek Online tie in novel he's just a hologram now. When Starfleet tried to "revive" Data, Data's ethical programming kicked in because reviving Data in B-4's body would overwrite B-4. Data tried to erase himself from B-4's systems to prevent this but Starfleet, which desperately needed Data to solve some crises or another, started feeding B-4/Data information on this crises. B-4 (who is smarter then everyone gives him credit for)saw how much his brother was needed changed a single line of Data's "suicide program" so it erased B-4 instead. Of course, Starfleet (Who are also much smarter then everyone gives them credit for) made a holographic backup of B-4 so he's now alive and a hologram. (It's pointed out he's stuck in the holodeck, but Data promised to assist in building him a new body and besides B-4 is apparently quite happy in the holodeck anyway since he really doesn't have any aspirations or desires.) |
| 49 | ** For that matter, what kind of freaks were Dr. Soong's parents, to name him "Noonien" in the first place? Noonien was ''Khan's'' first name ... Khan Noonien Singh, augmented tyrant and war criminal, whose surname is already just one vowel's-worth of pronunciation away from "Soong". So isn't that a lot like a Mr. and Mrs. Hetler tagging their kid "Adolf"...? |
| 50 | *** You know Adolf is still a very common name, right? |
| 51 | *** Wrong. |
| 52 | *** Both Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong were named after a real person named Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot that Gene Roddenberry served with during UsefulNotes/WW2. Taken from Wikipedia: Khan's full name was based on that of Kim Noonien Singh, a pilot Gene Roddenberry served with during the Second World War. Roddenberry lost touch with his friend and had hoped that Khan's similar name might attract his attention and renew his old acquaintance. |
| 53 | *** Khan was a dictator and a tyrant, but he wasn't a monster (at least not until his wife died). Even then he never got as bad as Hitler or Stalin. And as revealed in ''Enterprise'', the Soong family had ties to the Augments. Possibly the name just got passed down. |
| 54 | *** It's more like tagging their kid "Napoleon" or "Alexander". Khan was a tyrant but he wasn't genocidal. |
| 55 | *** Khan nuked Iran and a couple of other third world countries under the pretense he was doing them a FAVOR... not genocidal? He believed all the non-augments were basically bugs to enslave or crush as he desired... |
| 56 | *** Whaaaat? "Space Seed" specifically states otherwise: KIRK: He was the best of the tyrants and the most dangerous. They were supermen, in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring....SCOTT: There were no massacres under his rule. SPOCK: And as little freedom. MCCOY: No wars until he was attacked. |
| 57 | *** Not to praise Khan, but canon tells us he did nothing that approaches genocide. |
| 58 | *** In a rare instance of something good coming out of ''Enterprise'' the explanation could plausibly be; Data's creator's grandfather was an augmented humans nut and conceivably named his son Noonien Soong /because/ of the similarity, with Data's creator being Noonien Soong Jr. Now why the Kirks named their son 'Tiberius' on the other hand.... |
| 59 | *** Arik Soong is actually Noonien Soong's ''great''-grandfather. So maybe Dr Noonien Soong is named after his grandfather, Arik's son -- it's not an uncommon practice. |
| 60 | *** On top of that, there's a theory that Noonien and Arik Soong are the same person. Arik conspicuously operated near the Briar Patch, so perhaps he achieved longevity on the Baku Planet and later passed himself off as his own descendent before dying when the effect finally wore off completely. In this scenario, maybe he named himself for Khan. |
| 61 | *** Also, not all evil tyrants have ruined their first name. Stalin was responsible for millions of deaths and dismissed the rapes of millions of women and girls, but there are still plenty of people named Joseph. |
| 62 | [[/folder]] |
| 63 | [[folder:Ten Forward-E?]] |
| 64 | * Has the Enterprise-E an area equivalent to Ten-Forward on the Enterprise-D? If so, did Guinan survive ramming the Scimitar? |
| 65 | ** The Enterprise-E was designed to be much more military in its function than its predecessors, in recognition of the fact that the Federation was getting into a lot more fights than it used to (Borg, Dominion, etc.) I would imagine that an actual lounge would be considered superfluous, since unlike the holodecks, the only purpose it serves is recreation and would therefore be out of place on a ship of war. If she's around at all, Guinan may have been given a position as an adjunct counselor under Troi's supervision--just a theory, but it's the only one I can think of. Another possibility is that there is a lounge, it's just not located right at the front of the ship any longer. |
| 66 | *** Given that Guinan is never seen aboard the Enterprise-E, I'm guessing she's not on board at all. (In fact, we never see ''any'' civilians on the Enterprise-E.) |
| 67 | *** I'm assuming that she just [[Series/DoctorWho regenerated.]] And I don't mean that as a joke. I'm certain that Guinan is a Time Lord. |
| 68 | *** Also, plenty of warships have lounges. War is stressful. Hell, in the military, ''peacetime'' can be stressful. A place designated for blowing off steam and having a hot meal and a cold drink (or vice versa or whatever based on your personal preferences and/or BizarreAlienBiology) is very handy on warships. In any case, it could double as a training area/briefing room/improvised hospital area or whatever else you'd need a big room for. As mentioned elsewhere, they could easily have put the lounge anywhere, or just used the holodecks for the same purpose, or it's possible it's in roughly the same spot and we just haven't had a plot reason to go there yet. |
| 69 | *** The above point is supported within TNG itself, by the presence of Ten Forward (and Guinan herself) on board the alternate 1701-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise". It was more crowded (due to the ''Galaxy''-class being repurposed as a battleship/troop carrier), but still it was important to have a place to catch a break on an otherwise fully-militarized ship. And Starfleet never got ''as'' militarized in the Dominion War as they did in that timeline. |
| 70 | *** One episode of TNG made it clear that Guinan could/thought she could fight a Q, she has a sixth sense that can penetrate the 4th dimension and has a lifespan of hundreds of years. I realize the regeneration quote above is nothing more than a joke, but actually Al-Aurians having some form of incredible endurance may not be amazingly far-fetched. Slightly diminished by Soran dying during Generations but possibly justified in that the missile that blew up in his face contained a star-killing superweapon. |
| 71 | ** Didn't Guinan stay in the Nexus in Generations? |
| 72 | *** That was just a shadow of her, a "fragment" left from when she was briefly inside the Nexus before being transported out by the ''Enterprise''-B. |
| 73 | *** She even cameos in Nemesis! Nothing to say she went with them after the wedding, mind. |
| 74 | ** E had more teeth than D did was more efficient with space and stopped hosting families on board but it was hardly a ship of war. It was still primarily a ship of diplomacy and exploration. Insurrection opens with them hosting a big Diplomatic get together and next on their list was to assist in an archeological expidition until they got caught up in the Briar Patch incident. Incidentally that area of the ship where they hosted the diplomats at the beginning of that film probably WAS their Ten Forward or equivalent on whatever deck it was put on. |
| 75 | [[/folder]] |
| 76 | [[folder:Didn't You End the Last Movie With Working Eyes?]] |
| 77 | * Why did [=LaForge=] have ocular implants again, when he finally got real eyes in the previous movie? |
| 78 | ** It was explicitly stated that the effect wouldn't be permanent once [=LaForge=] was no longer under the planet's influence. Of course, why his optic nerves would degenerate for no reason after being repaired is never explained; it would be getting your car fixed, but having it break down again as soon as you leave the shop. |
| 79 | *** A better analogy would be to say that it would be like re-growing a severed hand, only to have it just fall off later. Geordi may have been born blind, but it isn't as though his optical nerves are under constant assault. |
| 80 | *** Depending on the nature of the disorder, they probably ''are'' constantly being damaged. It's a genetic disorder that affects the eyes themselves rather than the nerves (given that he has milky white cataracts covering his eyes when we see them without the visor), so his lenses are probably constantly forming congenital cataracts as they grow. The magic radiation's somehow repairing the existing damage, but without it, new, damaged cells gradually replace the ones the radiation fixed. |
| 81 | *** Way, way back in the early seasons, Geordi did in fact specify that his optic damage is a degenerative genetic disorder for which there is no treatment, and he's been blind since he was a child. Various EU stuff involving him backs this up, and even mentions other, similar disorders and that there's a variety of ways people have come up with to deal with it and other forms of blindness they can't fix easily. (One woman wore a vest with sensors covering it rather than something over her eyes.) So to put the above comparison in context, it's more like if you had a condition that made the muscles of your hand constantly atrophy until it was a shriveled claw, under the radiation the muscles grew back and you could use your hand, and when you left the radiation your hand shriveled up again. |
| 82 | [[/folder]] |
| 83 | [[folder:Prime Directive Doesn't Cover Dune Buggies]] |
| 84 | * When the Enterprise picks up B-4's distress signal they soon realize that the pieces are scattered on a planet inhabited by a pre-warp civilization. As established numerous times in the series and movies, this means the Prime Directive expressly forbids any cultural contamination. No-one must know about the existence of alien worlds or more advanced technologies... except Picard has a new dune buggy he wants to try out. They proceed to race around the desert collecting bits of android and then - when the locals show up with their sub-machine guns - fire energy weapons at them, potentially killing or at least seriously wounding several of their troops before summoning a giant flying shuttle and soaring away into outer space. Court Martials for all! |
| 85 | ** Whispering grass, don't tell the trees, 'cause the trees don't need to know. |
| 86 | ** I'd have to watch the movie again to be sure, but I don't remember them saying there was a pre-warp civilization there, just that it was a desert planet on the edge of Romulan space that was M-class but didn't have a civilization on it. Picard thus decided to take the dune buggy out because he felt like getting out of the ship and having some fun, and he had no reason to expect anyone to be there. I thusly assumed the Mad Max style bandits that attack them were actually some of Shinzon's goons that he'd alerted to be waiting for the Enterprise crew and have a go at them, since he knew they'd be by eventually. I could be wrong, but that's just how I always viewed that scene... they use lethal force because "Holy crap, are these guys even supposed to be here? Maybe they're space pirates or something. Whoever they are, they're trying to kill us!" |
| 87 | *** No, the dialogue explicitly states that the planet is inhabited by a pre-warp civilization that live in scattered bands. |
| 88 | *** Pre-warp civilization does not always mean pre-first contact civilization, is plausible (especially if they're near the Romulan space and Romulans, as far as I know, has no Prime Directive rule) that the civilization, though pre-warp, already was contacted by aliens. |
| 89 | ** They say there aren’t many aliens on the planet and they’re presumably quite primitive so I assume they were expecting to never encounter them, to me early industrial means 19th century so perhaps they didn’t realise the aliens were as advanced as they were. They must have had radar to detect them so quickly and be able to muster a response in time. Or perhaps these guys were some kind of desert bandits and it was unfortunate they saw the shuttle land. Either way whilst they possibly should have been more careful about avoiding the locals once they encountered them shooting their way out was the best option to preserve the prime directive. Better to have a bit of a mystery over the strange looking people seen only at a distance and the advanced tech seen by a few dozen people than actually getting captured and the aliens dissecting the enterprise crew and capturing the shuttle. The latter would cause far more disruption. Maybe Starfleet brought in a more sensible prime directive policy during the Dominion War, you’re not expected to die to defend it any more. |
| 90 | ** [[TechnologyLevels Assuming that just because Earth's early industrial period didn't yet have machine guns, jeeps and radar, doesn't mean that these aliens wouldn't.]] Terrible example of the IdiotBall there, especially as the ''Enterprise'' should have had zero trouble using aerial surveillance alone in working out both their technology level and where their settlements were in relation to the Away team. |
| 91 | [[/folder]] |
| 92 | [[folder:Giant Shaft of Doom]] |
| 93 | * Riker deals with Shinzon's Viceroy by luring him into a Jefferies Tube, established in all other continuities as being snug crawlspaces sandwiched in between the decks of the ship. The two end up fighting on a precarious metal gantry over a huge chasm lit from below by a gigantic white light source. Where on the ship is this, exactly? |
| 94 | ** The Holodeck, obviously. |
| 95 | ** Keep in mind that the ''Enterprise'' had just rammed the ''Scimitar''. Where Riker and the Viceroy were likely became distorted by the impact, creating a gap in the decks/superstructure. |
| 96 | ** Why the hell did Riker follow him at all? We know that ''Enterprise'' has forcefields that remain on-line even after it rams the ''Scimitar'', and I think it's safe to assume that there's more than one security team on the ship. Wouldn't the tactically correct thing to do have been to isolate the section that the Viceroy was in and send a squad or two in to deal with him? |
| 97 | *** The tactically correct thing to do would have been for Riker to have set his phaser's power pack to overload and chuck it down the Jeffries tube after the Viceroy. It's not like they have grenades... |
| 98 | *** The minor issue of the Viceroy mentally raping his wife might have had something to do with it. |
| 99 | *** Did Riker know that it was the Viceroy specifically? |
| 100 | *** Yes, Riker knew Troi told the Captain and he was standing right there. Which brings some fridge logic into play. Picard had to have known Riker would take that personally and that Shinzon would only either board himself or send his Viceroy. So why did he send Riker at all? Seems to be a bit of a liability there, not to mention a bad command decision. Now Picard could have been a little distracted at the time though, dealing with a insane clone of himself trying to kill everyone on Earth and all. |
| 101 | *** If memory serves, when ''Enterprise'' was boarded, Picard just said "Commander," and gave Riker a significant look. If you want to be charitable, you could argue that the captain never intended to send Riker at all; he just assumed that in a crisis, his XO knew enough to stay at his post. Busy as Picard was, he simply meant to delegate the task of sending in the grunts to deal with the intruders. I like to imagine him face-palming thirty seconds later when he realizes that his second-in-command isn't on the bridge anymore, and double-face palming when he notices Worf left, too. |
| 102 | ** The Computer core, most likely. |
| 103 | [[/folder]] |
| 104 | [[folder:Where's the Saucer?]] |
| 105 | * The bridge is located on the top of the Enterprise's saucer section. When the view screen is destroyed and a large hole forms at the front of the bridge, the view out of the hole is what you'd see if the bridge were at the leading edge of the saucer - given how much bigger the Enterprise-E is than its predecessor you should be able to see the saucer curving away ahead of you. |
| 106 | ** Not necessarily. It depends on how steep the curve of the saucer section is and how high above the saucer section the bridge window is. |
| 107 | ** A nitpick about that scene, admittedly, but one that bugs me none the less: Doesn't it seem like everybody on the bridge should have been killed instantly by some combination of shrapnel, shock wave, and drastic increase of pressure followed by drastic loss of pressure? I'm happy to defer to anybody with ballistics, physics, or medical expertise, but it seems to me that the bridge crew dusted themselves off from that hit ''way'' too easily. |
| 108 | *** The whole depressurization thing is massively played up by most movies. [[http://spacepulp.thecomicseries.com/comics/308 This comic]] rather realistically portrays exactly how dangerous holing the hull would be in most spaceships; once the forcefield is up there's effectively a wall there so they don't need to worry about temperature or radiation issues either. As for shrapnel, it doesn't work like a video game, it's not an area of attack spell that hits everything in its cone, it's dispersed pieces and chunks of metal... it's very dangerous, yes, but it's not a guaranteed hit and kill. Adding to both of these and the question of the shockwave are "inertial dampeners"... they probably mitigated any shockwave, and may also have an affect on anything that tries to move too fast within certain areas of the ship, helping explain why the shrapnel wasn't a bigger problem. |
| 109 | *** OP, here, and I think I was stuck in a modern mindset where I imagined the damage being caused by an artillery shell, rather than an energy weapon--specifically, an anti-armor shell that's designed to kill everything inside of an armored target by using the hardened material against it through spalling. I couldn't get my head around the disruptor bolt dissolving the bulkhead through some means other than kinetic energy (though obviously it couldn't have vaporized it, as such, because that would have created an explosion that ''would'' have killed everyone on the bridge). |
| 110 | *** It was actually a (supercharged) torpedo volley that struck the bridge, not a disruptor hit. |
| 111 | [[/folder]] |
| 112 | [[folder:Shuttle Transporters Out of Order?]] |
| 113 | * This is a common complain in a lot of Trek, but it's been established time and time again that shuttles and runabouts have their own transporter systems, making Data's space-jump to the Scimitar, not to mention his noble sacrifice, unnecessary. |
| 114 | ** Not entirely. Someone had to stop the Thalaron weapon. Simply using the shuttle transporters to beam Picard back wouldn't have helped, as the weapon would still have fired and killed everyone on board. Someone had to sacrifice themselves to stop it. |
| 115 | *** Beam in, shoot guards, overload phaser, beam back out, PROFIT. |
| 116 | *** You don't even have to overload the phaser. Previous TNG episodes established that phasers can be set to fire automatically or even on a timer. Beam in, set phaser down, program it to fire in 30 seconds, beam out. |
| 117 | ** It's possible that the hanger for the shuttlecraft (or the passages leading to it) was damaged during the battle, making it impossible for the craft to be launched, or for personnel to reach the hanger in the first place. |
| 118 | *** If you watch when LaForge was looking at the locations of the hull breaches three of them occur right in a line going though the main shuttle bay (which is right on the "neck" between the saucer and the engineering section by the way). The secondary shuttle bay (at the very back of the ship in the same location the Constitution-class kept it's main shuttle bay) was probably hit when Shinzon attacked the bottom of the ship to allow his boarding party to beam over. At the very least it would be impossible to get to the shuttles in the secondary bay a timely manner. ALTHOUGH on the other hand they know the transporters are good for at least one more transport, they could have beamed Picard to the secondary shuttle bay and he could have beamed in a whole security team and then beamed them all to the bridge of the enemy ship and won the entire fight in 10 seconds... |
| 119 | *** There's also the ''Cousteau'', ''Enterprise's'' captain's yacht. Given the yacht's bizarrely effective combat abilities in ''Film/StarTrekInsurrection'', launching ''Cousteau'' to lay down fire on the crippled ''Scimitar'' in the hopes of disabling that ship's super-weapon--and maybe tow ''Enterprise'' out of the weapon's firing arc (we've seen a Starfleet runabout tow a Galor-class warship through the wormhole, so it's not that farfetched)--could have been a good idea. Admittedly, though, ''Cousteau'' is docked under ''Enterprise's'' quantum torpedo launcher, which was an area that likely drew a lot of fire, so the yacht may have been damaged as well. |
| 120 | [[/folder]] |
| 121 | [[folder:Dogfighting Ships]] |
| 122 | * Massive space ships weaving around like F-16s in a dogfight. Not saying it's not possible, especially given that all ships in ''Franchise/StarTrek'' run on {{Phlebotinum}} and will thus do whatever the writers and SFX guys want them to do. |
| 123 | ** Not happening. The Scimitar is unbelievably maneuverable, but its supposed to be since it's the giant badass super ship. Even then, when it drops out of warp at the start of the fight, it overshoots the Enterprise and takes several seconds to bank around and return. The Enterprise is definitely less maneuverable, while the Mogai (Valdores) are more maneuverable than the Enterprise, which they should be, since they're a little over a quarter the size. You can get a good sense of how maneuverable the they all are based on how long it takes to make a turn compared to how fast its moving. To see what it looks like when massive space ships ARE buzzing around like fighters, check the first couple episodes of ''Star Trek Phase II,'' before someone told them they had this problem. [[http://youtu.be/ZVCXw1xJFJ4?t=39m20s Here's]] a quick link to a space scene. |
| 124 | [[/folder]] |
| 125 | [[folder:Weren't We Allies?]] |
| 126 | * This movie acts like the Federation-Romulan alliance formed in ''Deep Space Nine'' never happened. |
| 127 | ** The US and USSR went back to hating each other a few months after World War II ended. It's not difficult to imagine the Federation and Romulans had the same falling out after the Dominion War. |
| 128 | ** If we had skipped other series after the end of TNG and gone straight through the movies, the level of cooperation with Romulans by the end of the movie is a bit hard to believe--the reunification movement is way underground, and they had been shown as backstabbing jerkfaces almost every time they had been on screen (with one subversion, maybe a couple more, playing off audience expectations of this). With the (shaky) alliance from the Dominion War, however, it's a little more plausible that they would be willing to bury the hatchet for a moment and fight alongside the ''Enterprise'' for a ''strictly'' noble purpose. Or at least that's how I feel, having experienced the movies without seeing most of ''Deep Space Nine'' first. |
| 129 | ** The Romulan military allied with Shinzon and killed the Senate precisely ''because'' of their alliance during the Dominion War; the military thought the Senate was going soft and becoming too friendly towards Earth. The movie opened with most of the Romulans responsible for the alliance dying horribly, and the Federation has no idea where it stands with the new regime. The ending showed that, despite Shinzon and the hardliners' efforts, most of the Romulans don't want to keep fighting the Federation and the hostilities really are ending for good (barring anything crazy happening, like [[spoiler:Romulus being destroyed by a freak supernova which [[Film/StarTrek2009 opens a temporal rift that creates an alternate timeline]]]]). |
| 130 | *** Actually it was very clearly confirmed in an interview with the producers of the 2009 'Star Trek' film that everything in their film is occurring in an alternate version of the 'regular' Trek universe (Orci even mentioned that it was likely to be one of the 'quantum realities' that we saw in 'Parallels'). We have no confirmation that the Romulan Empire was even wiped out by the slower-than-light supernova (facepalm) in the 'Prime' universe. |
| 131 | *** We do. The confirmation was that the reality the Narada showed up in was an alternate timeline/reality, at the very least from the point the Narada showed up. Every other source consistently indicates that the Narada ''came'' from the 'Prime' universe. How ''much'' of the RSE was destroyed is less certain, though an unexpectedly FTL supernova would explain how it could 'threaten the galaxy' and take the Romulan government by surprise. |
| 132 | ** My theory, the new Government of Cardassia realized that it would work out a lot better for them in terms of influence if they could split the Federation off from the Romulans. So they turned to a ''simple'' patriot who just happened to have nigh on incontrovertible proof that the Federation conspired to drag the Romulans into war on false pretenses and assassinate a Senator (with help from persons, sadly, unknown, of course). So relations got very frosty very quickly. Maybe that is why they have a superweapon, they were already gearing up for a war on the Federation as soon as they could manage to regenerate their losses from the first war. |
| 133 | [[/folder]] |
| 134 | [[folder:How Does Picard Even Know How to Drive a Dune Buggy?]] |
| 135 | * The off-roading scene. Picard mentioned being amazed in an episode of TNG when he saw automobiles in a holodeck fantasy, because automobiles were a thing of the past. Shouldn't people not even know how to drive anymore, because the automobile is obsolete? Then again, it has been established that the director of Nemesis never saw an episode of TNG. |
| 136 | ** The dune-buggy scene ''was'' ridiculous, but the first season dialogue suggesting that holodecks were a whole new invention probably fell into BroadStrokes continuity, like the Ferengi's behavior; they've always acted since then like holodecks have been around for years (Voyager characters even talk about growing up with children's programs). At any rate, he's been playing Dixon Hill holodeck programs for several years either way, so automobiles wouldn't be a mystery to him anymore. Now, whether Picard would really be so overjoyed about going on a dune-buggy ride through the desert... |
| 137 | *** How about the Voyager episode "The 37s" where Kim mistakes a truck for an early hovercar? Dumb even by Harry's standards... |
| 138 | *** This is the same canon where television has apparently disappeared. It might be best to just forget that these things were ever mentioned. |
| 139 | ** This actually becomes a wee bit less of a problem if we imagine that the obsolescence of the automobile refers to vehicles with internal combustion engines, rather than wheeled vehicles in general. The wheel won't necessarily outlive its usefulness in the future, and even if you invent a hovercar, it might be prudent to work in some wheels as a fail-safe, or whatever. The problem, however, is that the Starfleet jeep of ''Nemesis'' seems far too close to a contemporary vehicle in operation. |
| 140 | [[/folder]] |
| 141 | [[folder:Didn't All the Other Picards Die a Few Films Ago?]] |
| 142 | * During Data's wake at the end of the film, the remaining crew toast their fallen comrade... using a wine labelled ''Château Picard''. Huh? given how Picard's whole family was killed years before, who the hell is still bottling this stuff? clearly it isn't Jean Luc and Robert had no visible staff during ''Family'' - and given how his brother chastised Jean Luc's wine palette getting degraded by synthahol, I find it highly unlikely he actually kept bottles of the stuff just lying around his quarters. |
| 143 | ** Eight years have passed between Generation and Nemesis... some high quality French wines (especially reds) are not meant to be served until decades have passed. |
| 144 | ** Presumably Picard contacted whoever was handling the family affairs back home (the executor of the estate, or however laws work in the 24thC) after Generations and arranged for some staff to be taken on to keep things ticking over. It's unlikely he'd allow the last of the family legacy to vanish given how big he is on tradition. |
| 145 | ** Also, the vintage of that wine bottle is 2267. Picard and Data share some of it in a deleted scene, but even in the finished film the label is fleetingly visible. So at the time, the wine is over a century old -- evidently the grapes of the future produce wine that is substantially longer lasting than those of today. |
| 146 | *** Or you know stasis fields... |
| 147 | *** That raises an interesting question. The value of wines is linked to their natural process of aging, which you could easily overturn in the 24th century. |
| 148 | ** Picard certainly does drink synthahol for the most part, both because of availability and duty to not be seriously impaired at any time while captaining a ship. That doesn't mean he can't keep a decent sized collection or appreciate his family business. His dad was just complaining that he wasn't living and breathing wine every day, like him. |
| 149 | ** Alright not only is this easily explainable, it's 100% canon. At the end of the TNG episode "Family" as Picard is leaving, his brother Robert gives him a bottle of the family wine, with explicit instructions not to drink it alone. So after Data's passing, he opened it up, and he didn't drink it alone...but with family. |
| 150 | *** Nice thought, but in that scene Robert explicitly identifies that bottle as the '47. It seems just as likely it's the bottle Picard and Durken drink from in "First Contact." |
| 151 | ** The simplest answer: In Generations, Picard only says that Robert and Rene burned in the fire. Marie, Robert's wife, survived (I believe she was the one who sent Picard the message about their deaths). It's likely she tended to the vineyards as much as Robert, so she probably stayed on at the vineyard. Just because she wasn't a Picard by birth doesn't disqualify her from being part of the family business. |
| 152 | [[/folder]] |
| 153 | [[folder:Our Slaves Know How to do Everything We Know]] |
| 154 | * We can possibly justify the super ship and weapon by saying that it was developed the Romulans[[note]]although that would raise questions about why the Romulan military didn't realize what Shinzon's plan was[[/note]] but how the heck did the Remans get taught advanced medical practices? For that matter when did they learn how to fly the most advanced ship around? The movie introduces them as a slave race that was used as cannon fodder in the Dominion War. |
| 155 | ** These are slaves in the 24th century. You generally want your slaves to live long enough to be productive, and they have to be trained in certain tasks (like flight) if they're going to be fodder. Also, they built the ship, so they should know how to fly it. |
| 156 | *** We see nothing in the movie (nor do we hear anything) to suggest that the Remans were well educated. The flashback we get suggests that they were largely forced to mine for...something. Additionally the idea of fodder in space battle doesn't really make sense. Space isn't two dimensional for them to soak up damage and if they've been enslaved for most of their existence then arming them, teaching them how to fly combat ships and telling them to fight someone they have no quarrel with is an excellent way to make them switch sides. |
| 157 | *** Planetary engagements require foot soldiers. These foot soldiers need to be taught how to maintain their advanced weapons, communication equipment and so forth. You might even want them on the front line flying ships in certain obvious suicide missions. Not to mention their use as laborers in shipyards and other construction facilities. It's more unbelievable that they could construct a monster like the Scimitar in secret. That they could construct it in the first place is reasonable. As for switching sides, the Remans would only do that in the face of a better offer. With the Romulans likely maintaining a hold on the space fleet, they could glass Remus if their slaves got out of line. |
| 158 | *** They mention them being used as shock troops, presumably they were used for planetary conflicts like Marines. Instead of beaming down Romulan citizens just beam armed slaves down instead. |
| 159 | *** They didn't just build any ship, though. They built a ship that outclassed the ''Enterprise''-E in nearly every way. And keep in mind, Starfleet's mandate for the ''Sovereign''-class almost certainly contained some variation of the phrase "capable of engaging and defeating Borg vessels." In fact, there's every indication that the ''Scimitar'' outclasses contemporary Romulan warships--two of which it absolutely curb-stomped. Romulan warp drives are canonically slower than those employed by the Federation. In the series, a Warbird ''does'' manage to keep pace with the ''Enterprise''-D, but it was at the cost of irreparably damaging its engines. The ''Enterprise''-E is even faster than her predecessor, and the ''Scimitar'' was able to easily overtake her. It can also fire its weapons and operate its deflector shields while cloaked, which the ''Valdore'' and her sister ship were apparently incapable of doing. Designing and building a ship that much more advanced than anything in the Romulan or Federation fleet is something that would require a deep and comprehensive understanding of a variety of fields of engineering. Slaves--even slaves that are experienced in constructing warships--shouldn't be able to do it. |
| 160 | [[/folder]] |
| 161 | [[folder:''Enterprise'' Limo Service]] |
| 162 | * So at the start of the film, the entire ''Enterprise'' senior staff is taking time out for a wedding. Okay. Then they get on the ''Enterprise'' and set course for Betazed, for another wedding. Not okay. Who on Earth authorized Picard to use the ''Federation flagship'' as a glorified limousine? This isn't some diplomatic mission, they're literally just ferrying a bunch of people to a wedding. And not even an important wedding, one between two members of the ship's crew! Ever heard of shuttlecraft? Or are we supposed to assume the ''Enterprise'' has some mission out that way afterwards? |
| 163 | ** Well, Deanna is the daughter of Lwaxana Troi, a fairly high-ranking member of Betazoid society who is also the Betazoid ambassador to the Federation and one of the biggest pains in the collective ass of Starfleet. Given that the Dominion War is over at this point (meaning there is no critical mission that the ship is needed for), Lwaxana might have managed to pull a few strings (or at least complained about it until Starfleet gave in to shut her up). |
| 164 | ** This problem is all over ''Franchise/StarTrek''; captains of individual starships often seem to have vast leeway to do what they like and go where they like. |
| 165 | *** TOS was much better about this. On at least two occasions, Kirk had to work around (read: ignore) Starfleet orders to pursue a mission he thought was more critical. In ''Amok Time'' he ''does'' actually request permission to take Spock to Vulcan, but he knows that it will take some time to get a response, and goes anyways. By TNG, Picard more or less take the ''Enterprise'' anywhere he wants for any reason. |
| 166 | *** Maybe the key TNG example is at the tail end of "Symbiosis," where Picard delegates the decision of where to go next to his helmsmen. Geordi picks the Opperline system, because "We've never been there." Seems like reason enough to take the Federation flagship someplace, doesn't it? |
| 167 | *** Actually wasn't Betazed one of the hardest hit planets in the Dominion War? Relief mission anyone? |
| 168 | ** Actually, "go wherever and do whatever unless we specifically give you something else to do" seems to have been Picard's general mission statement since he first got the Enterprise, but definitely after he gets the -E. At a guess, Starfleet seems to have realized that Picard has a really good idea what he's doing and just lets him do it, unless they actually need him to go do this one specific thing. It's not like they desperately need the ship for anything else. |
| 169 | ** Don't forget, the entire senior staff of the Enterprise were going to be part of the wedding - Troi and Riker are the bride and groom, Picard's the best man, presumably Crusher is the maid of honor... This isn't just like Picard taking a shuttle to a Starbase for a medical procedure and leaving Riker in command in "Samaritan Snare," this would be leaving the ship without its entire senior staff if they just took the captain's yacht or something. You don't leave EVERY senior position on the ship filled by the junior officers. |
| 170 | ** Also, back in "The First Duty," the Enterprise - all 42 decks and thousand plus crew - returned to Earth because Picard, and Picard alone, was going to be giving the commencement address at Starfleet Academy. It seems like, unless there's pressing business demanding a specific ship, not to mention the many times in Star Trek history that the Enterprise has been called on to be a glorified taxi service, ferrying one grand high muckity muck between two backwater planets (and yes, I'm exaggerating for effect here), that Starfleet Command is pretty flexible on where "ship's business" will take the ship. |
| 171 | [[/folder]] |
| 172 | [[folder:Fortress Earth]] |
| 173 | * So Shinzon's plan is to attack Earth with his big-ass super weapon--fair enough, his ship is powerful, deadly, and apparently has a "perfect cloak." So...then what? Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine establishes that Earth is one of the most fortified planets in the Alpha Quadrant--so fortified, in fact, that the Klingons had never even ''thought'' of attacking it. The Breen manage to launch a successful raid on Earth, but it was at the cost of every single ship in that fleet. No matter how badass the Scimitar, and how well cloaking device works, that ship is bound to give away its position the instant it opens fire. Even worse, he only brought one ship, Starfleet knows he's coming, and they're going to be ready for him. How exactly did he plan to survive this mission? |
| 174 | ** Shinzon was dying by the second, it's entirely possible he had no intention of surviving. That said, the actual reason was explained in the movie. The Thalaron weapon, the Cascading Biogenic Pulse cannot be shielded against. It goes through all defenses. So even if we assume that he doesn't have to decloak to fire, basically all he has to do is point it at Earth, fire it off and watch everything in front of him die, including the crews of any ships or starbases between the Scimitar and Earth. They would only have the few scant minutes that it takes to deploy to kill him. And according to Geordi the Scimitar defies all known detection methods rattling off residual antiprotons which the Dominion used to detect cloaks and the tachyon signatures used by the Federation. As for the Breen it's a lot easier to infiltrate a large target with a single ship than it is to walk an entire fleet in. |
| 175 | [[/folder]] |
| 176 | [[folder:Not Taking You With Me]] |
| 177 | * When Shinzon reversed his engines to pull away from the ''Enterprise'', why did it work? In the frictionless void of space, and lacking opposing thrust from ''Enterprise'', shouldn't the ''Scimitar'' have just drug ''Enterprise'' along with it? |
| 178 | ** Maybe he used the deflectors in conjunction with the engines? |
| 179 | *** Which leads to the question, why did Picard let him pull away anyway? The Enterprise's engines still worked at least just keep pushing forward until one of the ships explodes in a ball of fire taking the other with it. |
| 180 | *** It's not clear that the Enterprise's engines did work, at least well enough for them to continue pushing forward. Besides, the original intention was to damage the Scimitar and possibly destroy it with the Self Destruct. After the Self Destruct was disabled, there wasn't much point to forcing the two ships to stay entwined, as the Scimitar could rather easily kill the Enterprise crew in any number of ways besides using their forward weapons. As to the two ships pulling apart, it might have something to do with the inertial dampeners? Who can say. |
| 181 | *** Shinzon ordered all power diverted to the engines to maximise output and therefore acceleration. The combination of that and the Enterprise's inertia was sufficient to overcome the force required to pull the two ships apart, hence the separation. |
| 182 | [[/folder]] |
| 183 | [[folder:We're Too Damaged to Destroy Ourselves]] |
| 184 | * How does the self-destruct go offline, shouldn't all you need to do is turn off the anti-matter containment? It isn't like it doesn't try to fail every ten seconds anyway. Picard should have just turned to [=LaForge=] and said "Turn off the antimatter containment will you?" |
| 185 | ** By about the middle of TNG's run, the writers had finally established how a lot of the more common tech in Star Trek worked, and while that was probably a good thing, it necessitated turning a lot of plot elements into [[WallBangers/StarTrek wall bangers]]. With all of the things that we have seen doom Federation starships, it sometimes seems that the only way ''not'' to blow up a ship was by activating the auto-destruct (how many times during the series did we see ''Enterprise-d'' blow up only to be saved by a ResetButton--hell, in both ''Cause and Effect'' and ''All Good Things...'' ''Enterprise'' exploded ''several'' times) . With all of the volatile compounds and equipment that we've seen starships routinely carry, there's really no excuse for a creative captain not being able to get his ship to make a really big boom on fairly short notice. |
| 186 | ** There are supposed to be two different self-destruct methods. The one where the warp core is deliberately breached and causes a massive antimatter explosion, and the one seen in 'Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock'' where a series of explosions destroy the most critical components and leave it an unsalvageable hulk. I can understand why the latter would require certain systems to be operational in order to work, but firing a phaser on maximum setting at the warp core should have done the trick for the former. The warp core breach method is only supposed to be used far away from any inhabited planet though, so the best guess I have is that there was one just out of sight. |
| 187 | *** The "phaser to the warp core" method would require someone in engineering to know they needed to take a phaser to the warp core... which I don't think they could do, since I believe shipboard communications were down. (Besides, if you were in the middle of a fight with a ship that you knew had a clone of your captain on board, and your captain suddenly called you and said "Blow up the warp core!", would ''you'' do it?) Add to that, since a warp core breach is pretty much "instant death for the ship and anything within viewing distance of it", there's probably pretty heavily-done safeguards... like a nuclear weapon, causing an explosion to the warp core itself might indeed cause a nice big explosion, but only enough to wipe out engineering and the deck above and below or some such. Causing a deliberate warp core breach is probably actually quite difficult, as it ''should be''. |
| 188 | *** Okay, why didn't he just send someone from the bridge there? And yes, I would do it if the captain gave me reason why, which Picard could. And we do know that warp core breach does destroy the entire ship. |
| 189 | *** This is something that's bugged the crap out of me about Star Trek for a long time. Whenever the ship has a hiccup, the intercoms go down; right along with, for some reason, the combadges. We've seen combadges used for person-to-person communication on away missions before, so you would expect them to be able to work independently of the ship. How is it that there's never a backup system? A pair of simple, been-around-in-the-real-world-for-70-years, sound-powered telephones could ensure that the bridge could always stay in touch with the engine room even if the power was out and all of the batteries on the ship were completely dead. |
| 190 | *** First, because they're in the middle of fighting still and can't just send a runner. And second I think you kind of missed the point. There is a ''clone of Picard'' on the enemy ship, thus if Picard suddenly started telling someone to do utterly suicidal things, you'd have to be an idiot to just do it. |
| 191 | *** The self-destruct works by creating a warp core overload, however the warp core went offline when the Scimitar disabled the warp drive. They ''never'' had the option of the autodestruct. |
| 192 | [[/folder]] |
| 193 | [[folder:Super Secret Password]] |
| 194 | * Why does Picard give his pass code for the auto-destruct sequence out loud so other people can hear it? What's the point of personal passwords if they're not secret? |
| 195 | ** The computer is ''supposed'' to cross-check the authorization code with the user's biometrics, which ''should'' prevent unauthorized use of an access code; this only ever works when the [[RuleOfDrama plot requires it]], though. To the show's credit, they're usually (but not always) pretty consistent with the computer requiring at least a voice-print authentication, but this fails fairly often (Data once hijacked the ''Enterprise'' with what was essentially a playback attack). So, yeah, Starfleet really, ''really'' needs to toughen their computer security. |
| 196 | *** If the computer's going to check the user's biometrics anyway, what's the point of the password? |
| 197 | *** confirmation of actual consent. (If there is a mismatch? Assume coercion!) |
| 198 | *** There are also several examples of hostile aliens with the ability to make copies of Starfleet officers so perfect, it takes thorough, detailed medical scans to identify them as imposters. Several species have also been shown to be able to possess starship personnel--to the point that it almost seems like a right of passage for Starfleet officers. This makes requiring more than biometric authentication uncharacteristically savvy of Starfleet. |
| 199 | [[/folder]] |
| 200 | [[folder:Leaving the Door Unlocked]] |
| 201 | * Data's HeroicSacrifice was apparently written in because Brent Spiner felt he was getting too old to play an ageless android. Fair enough... but this was always planned to be the last outing for the TNG crew. He would never have had to play Data again anyway. Then on top of that, they introduce another Soong-type android who ''is also played by Brent Spiner''. OK, so he's only a minor character compared to his brother, but the film teases the idea he might unlock Data's memories (which, inevitably, fandom, EU and possibly-canon comic ''Countdown'' all ran with), so Data's still around and still looks like Brent Spiner. So what was the point of insisting on killing the original? |
| 202 | ** I think it was just a ham-fisted attempt to ape Spock's HeroicSacrifice in ''[[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan Wrath of Khan]]''. |
| 203 | ** Perhaps when he made B-4, Soong was experimenting with the idea of including an aging system in his androids which he eventually discarded. Thus, if Spiner were to return as Data in B-4's body, it could be explained that the aging systems still functioned and he now looked older than he used to. Of course, they could just as easily have had Data install an aging system in himself and still avoided having to kill him (in fact, he did pretty much exactly that prior to the future seen in ''All Good Things''). |
| 204 | *** Actually, the Spock answer was precisely it. Spock's death was meant to be 'we kill him...but can bring him back easily'. So, the idea was to kill off Data in a way they didn't' have to use him, but with an 'out' so they could bring him back fast. It's just that the out was so OBVIOUS, that everyone assumes it's canon. |
| 205 | [[/folder]] |
| 206 | [[folder:Sidetracked?]] |
| 207 | * Why is Data leaving the Enterprise to become Riker's first officer on the USS Titan? With Riker's departure he is now the first officer of the Federation flagship and almost guaranteed to become its captain in a few years when the aging Picard takes retirement. Data has essentially demoted himself. |
| 208 | ** Perhaps Data doesn't feel he's ready for his own command yet, and being an immortal android he doesn't feel any urgency towards reaching that goal. |
| 209 | ** He's not. He's taking over as Picard's first officer. That's what the whole "away missions" thing in the wedding scene was about. Presumably the new first officer from the deleted scene was brought in last-minute because of Data not being available anymore. |
| 210 | [[/folder]] |
| 211 | [[folder:Where's Mom?]] |
| 212 | * Why wasn't Lwaxana Troi at her own daughter's wedding? |
| 213 | ** It's no mystery: recall that they were going to have two weddings, the other one being on Betazed. |
| 214 | [[/folder]] |
| 215 | [[folder:Perpetual Worf]] |
| 216 | * Does The Enterprise-E even have a Chief Tactical officer? The poor man or woman seems to get immediately demoted every time Worf comes on board. Arguably it made sense in ''First Contact'' as Picard's line of ''Mr Worf, we could use some help at tactical'' implies that their previous Tactical officer was injured or too inexperienced to fight the Borg. But in ''Insurrection'' in ''Nemesis'' Worf is just there on the bridge with very little reason given. |
| 217 | ** In ''Insurrection'' Worf is on board for the reception in the beginning of the movie. During which Picard is then called by the admiral to give him the update on Data. Picard says "We'll have Worf delay his return to Deep Space Nine for a bit". It is less about him running Starship security, then it is Picard has worked with Worf for many years, and knows he is skilled, so he wanted another ace in the hole with him for the mission to Baku, a man who he could trust and rely on. |
| 218 | ** Deep space nine concluded, with almost all of the main characters going separate ways, and leaving the station. Worf was specifically mentioned as the new ambassador to the Klingon home world. He mentions early in ''Nemesis'', during Riker's wedding, that he didn't like it. Worf, though more disciplined then the average Klingon because his duty demands it, still has the same irritability. This being said, if he was at a job he did not like, he would seek a new one out. To much had changed on Deep Space Nine for him to feel comfortable their. However, most of the Enterprise-E crew was inherited from its direct predecessor, the Enterprise-D where Worf served as chief tactical officer. It was brought up at times, even a full episode of Deep Space Nine saw him not feeling as comfortable as he did compared to his life on a starship. He did not even take quarters on the station for the first few months. By the time of ''Nemesis'' he was an extremely decorated officer and hero of the dominion war. He probably had enough clout to just ask for an assignment to the Enterprise-E, which the senior crew was only to happy to have him back, as he was part of their family for a long time. |
| 219 | *** Sorry, but no, you're wrong. Nowhere in the official release of the film does Worf actually state that he was ill-suited to become an ambassador, it's just a bit of fan theory, and while admittedly it's consistent and logical fan theory, it's not confirmed within the film. So Worf just literally pops back without any explanation given. |
| 220 | *** The early screenplay by John Logan contained this exchange: |
| 221 | *** WORF: I was not suited for the life of a... diplomat. |
| 222 | *** BEVERLY (wry) Who'd have guessed? |
| 223 | *** You're perfectly right that it's not in the finished film, but it's not a fan theory. This screenplay leaked, circulated widely online before the film came out and "phantom scene syndrome" resulted for many viewers. Also, that line is intact in the novelization by J.M. Dillard. |
| 224 | [[/folder]] |
| 225 | [[folder:6 Versus 1000]] |
| 226 | * Why does the Reman boarding party only consist of like 6 guys? Wouldn't you want a larger boarding party to go to a ship with more then 1,000 people on it? Also, why were they transported to the lower decks of the ship? It's well established that transporters are very precise. Couldn't they have transported directly to the bridge of the Enterprise so they could snag the Captain and make a quick escape? |
| 227 | ** To answer the "small boarding party" issue: My guess is that it was due to logistics. Transporting more people takes more time. Perhaps Enterprise was able to regain some basic shielding (or at least some sort of transport scrambling) before they could send more people. Also, assuming the Scimitar has to drop its shields as well during transport, sending a small army would leave them exposed quite a while. If you wanna abduct someone, you still want to have a ship to return to after the deed... As for the destination of the transport: Because only the ''lower'' shields had failed at this point. Presumably that made beaming directly to the topmost section of the ship, or even anywhere near there, outright impossible. |
| 228 | [[/folder]] |
| 229 | [[folder:Help me out, Worf]] |
| 230 | * Minor one, during Deanna's search for the Scimitar by mind-locating the viceroy. Why the need to play handsies with Worf? Didn't she go through a long and taxing bridge commander test way back when? Surely there was a chapter involving manning the tactical console. |
| 231 | ** That was on a Galaxy-class ship, though, and by Nemesis it's been ten years since then. There is probably a recertification process for bridge officers (especially when transitioning to an entirely different class) and it doesn't seem out of character for Troi (who struggled so hard the first time and clearly didn't require it to fulfill her duties beforehand) to quietly opt-out |
| 232 | ** Alternatively, considering its a major tactical situation, maybe it was more efficient? The battle was unlikely to be decided by that one shot, so as soon as the Scimitar decloaked, Worf would have to take back over anyway and they'd lose valuable seconds in Troi stepping aside and him stepping up compared to her just taking her hand away. Also, if the Scimitar was able to recloak again, they'd have to do it all over again, costing more seconds. Also, iirc (unless I'm remembering fanon as canon) - doesn't the LCARS interface used in TNG era ships mean that each officer can reconfigure the interface to their personal preferences? Maybe Worf's preferences are non-standard and to avoid confusion, Troi was also using her abilities on Worf to direct him rather than trying to figure out the consol herself. |
| 233 | [[/folder]] |
| 234 | [[folder:I hate the Romulans, so I'm going to destroy Earth!]] |
| 235 | * Shinzon has a grudge against the Romulans for creating him, lumbering him with a genetic disease, and consigning him to a life of misery in the Reman mines. Therefore, he wants to utterly annihilate... er, Earth. |
| 236 | ** This was explained somewhat in the chunk of footage that was left on the editing room floor. Shinzon's lifespan was going to be pretty short even if he had succeeded in stealing Picard's blood, and he in fact killed most those responsible for his creation when he took out the Romulan Senate. His main goal was in fact to go down in history by destroying Earth, which would bring about the collapse of the Federation government and pave the way for a full-scale Romulan invasion. A bit of a hackneyed motive to be sure, but it makes ''much'' more sense than what we got. |
| 237 | ** His talk about the Remans being a race "bred for war" implies that he and they are basically a bunch of [[BloodKnight Blood Knights]] who want to start a war, this time on their own terms and not as slaves of the Romulan Empire. By extension they can be read as trying to show the Romulans up, taking out the Federation in one shot after centuries of similar Romulan plots failed. It's still pretty vague, though. |
| 238 | ** The Enterprise received six positronic signals, but only one of Data's components (his postrionic brain) would register such a signal. Each of B-4's parts also apparently has its own power source, if the "zombie hand from the sand" is any indicator. |
| 239 | [[/folder]] |
| 240 | [[folder:Why not Worf?]] |
| 241 | * Why isn't Worf the one to go on the suicide run on the Reman ship? He lived through the last big war, and his religion actually ''requires'' him to seek a glorious death. In the other movies Picard being the one to go in is due to circumstances or necessity, but here it makes no sense. |
| 242 | ** Because he was still fighting off the Reman boarding party and in the novelization, a bad disruptor hit forced him into Sickbay; he was completely occupied in either case. Plus, he wasn't even on the bridge when Picard announced this decision, so he couldn't object even if he wanted to. |
| 243 | [[/folder]] |
| 244 | [[folder:What about the Tal Shiar?]] |
| 245 | * Shinzon's MilitaryCoup makes very little sense in terms of the larger ''Franchise/StarTrek'' setting. How did the conspirators manage to get their conspiracy past the Tal Shiar, the ''notoriously'' intrusive StateSec agency of the Romulan Star Empire (who in particular have a nasty InterServiceRivalry with the regular military)? How were they planning to pass a human off as praetor to the frankly [[FantasticRacism quite racist]] Romulans, and how were they to explain where in the hell he came from and why he's using what ought to be SlaveMooks as his private army? |
| 246 | ** The Tal Shiar had been largely obliterated during the Deep Space Nine episode "The Die is Cast". While this was several years later, chances are it never regained the prominence it once had. After all, the later episode "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" featured a number of Section 31 agents working to manipulate the Romulan political structure, seemingly unopposed by the Tal Shiar. |
| 247 | *** Though that meddling occurring unopposed by the Tal Shiar does have another explanation that indicates the Tal Shiar did regain some of its prominence... as it turns out the plot was meant to strengthen the influence of the chairman ''of'' the Tal Shiar, since he turns out to be a Federation agent -- and may well have been a Section 31 operative even before he went a bit more official. It is possible that if the Tal Shiar did find evidence of the coup beforehand, Section 31 may have instructed Koval to bury the evidence and let the coup go ahead as a way to destabilise the Romulan Star Empire. |
| 248 | [[/folder]] |
| 249 | [[folder:How did Janeway make Admiral before Picard?]] |
| 250 | * Admittedly, he doesn't want the promotion, but in what just universe is Captain Jean-Luc Picard, saviour of the Federation on more than one occasion, taking orders from a two-bit vice-admiral who was ''not even born'' when he was promoted to Captain and managed to screw up the one mission she had been officially given by Starfleet in seven years of Captaincy? (That is, search, locate, and apprehend a ship containing marquis and crew.) What does this say about the quality of Starfleet's Admirals??? |
| 251 | ** Picard was offered promotion to admiral TWICE during TNG. He turned it down both times, because he liked being a starship captain and didn't want a desk job. It was also hinted (but not directly stated) that he had been offered admiral even before he took command of the 1701-D. It's also very likely (but again not directly stated) that he was offered admiral again during the Dominion War (also turning it down). When Janeway got back from the Delta quadrant, it was shortly after the Dominion War ended (a war that caused the Federation to lose a LOT of people). Starfleet was a lot more desperate for people then, and Janeway just happened to take the first promotion that was offered her, while Picard didn't. It's also very likely that Janeway was KickedUpstairs, because while she did get Voyager home, she was never a very effective captain or leader. Also, at the end of Generations, Kirk WARNED Picard. "Don't let them promote you or transfer you. You belong on the bridge of that ship." Kirk had firsthand experience with losing his starship command by being promoted to Admiral. |
| 252 | ** That they reward people who unite two hostile crews, cross a considerable portion of a hostile, uncharted quadrant, making friendly contact with dozens of species, saved the galaxy from a species from another dimension or two and crippled the borg? And they don't punish people for getting grabbed by hyper advanced technology against their will. And hell, she DID bring them back like she was supposed to. |
| 253 | ** Some people, like Website/SFDebris, have theorized that Janeway had gotten so exhausted after many years stranded in the Delta Quadrant that she couldn't ''bear'' to take another command, let alone immediately after finally getting home. Or that she was KickedUpstairs to get rid of her. |
| 254 | ** Also, Starfleet may have figured that Picard is far more useful out there "on the field" than chained to a desk job. Picard has been the best at being the flag ship's captain since Kirk, and they want to profit from that as long as possible. |
| 255 | ** And then there is the lingering delicate issue of Picard's history with the Borg. At this point, they might not ''want'' him to be an Admiral, figuring it's much safer to just let him continue in a prestigious posting which is both relatively limited in terms to how much damage he could potentially do to the Federation and which has the bonus of keeping him perfectly content. If he's happy galloping around the cosmos and they're happy not having him in command of a full fleet or facing the potential PR splashback of benching their most famous captain, it sounds like everybody wins. |
| 256 | ** Janeway is also more career-oriented than Kirk and Picard were. Now, that may sound strange since both of them could be trope namers for MarriedToTheJob, but the job they're married too is ''starship captain'', not just "person in Starfleet." They want to command a ship, not run an astrometrics department or manage a fleet of a dozen ships. Janeway is married to the job of being in Starfleet, which means doing her best as a science officer before she became a Captain, doing her best as a Captain in frankly impossible circumstances, and then accepting a promotion to admiral and doing her best at that. |
| 257 | [[/folder]] |
| 258 | [[folder:What's the point of the Argo?]] |
| 259 | * Why does the Argo buggy exist in the form that we see it in? No anti-gravity, no sensors, a gun that needs to be manually targeted, no shields, no forcefield, not even a roof with polarised armour plating. It is really hard not to look at this thing and wonder if a 20th century Humvee could quite easily best it despite being divided by 400 years of technological advancement. |
| 260 | ** Maybe they wanted to at least obey the Prime Directive a tiny bit by not using a super-advanced vehicle for the pickup? Although this would still make one wonder why the Federation has such an antique stashed aboard one of their finest starships? |
| 261 | [[/folder]] |
| 262 | [[folder:Why no familiar Romulans?]] |
| 263 | * Including Sela instead of Commander Donatra would seem to have a number of benefits - resolving a character arc from TNG, possible human sympathies due to her heritage, sympathetic to Shinzon and the Remans as she herself would undoubtedly be an outcast as not completely Romulan, and a sendoff for Denise Crosby as ThePeteBest of the TNG cast. Has any specific reason been given for her absence? Was Denise unavailable? Was Sela simply never considered by the writers? Tomalak would have been another fine addition, and we know Andreas Katsulas was still acting - he appeared in an episode of Enterprise after Nemesis opened. Again, any explanation? |
| 264 | ** I remember pre-release rumours suggesting that Sela would be in it, provoking speculation that she was rewritten into Donatra. The truth of it, I don't know. |
| 265 | ** It might've been nice to throw some familiar Romulans into the massacre scene at the beginning, at a minimum. |
| 266 | [[/folder]] |
| 267 | [[folder:Some Best Friend You Turned Out To Be, Geordi!]] |
| 268 | * Geordi's reaction to Data's death is strangely muted. So is Riker's for that matter, but that fits his character more. But Picard and Troi are devastated, and they arguably were only close to him towards the end of the series and the films. Geordi has been his closest friend from Day One and yet you'd never know it from watching his reaction at the end of the movie. Maybe there wasn't time to show Geordi grieving (although there was time to show Riker getting his first command), but it makes Data's sacrifice seem a bit hollow. Maybe Geordi knows something we don't, like Data has a Spock-like backup plan involving B-4? Maybe they discussed it before Data made the jump? We'll never know, I guess. |
| 269 | ** Notably, Geordi has had to deal with Data's [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS3E22TheMostToys apparent]] or [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E26S6E1TimesArrow impending]] death a couple of times before. In both instances, he showed signs of not taking it very well at all. A plot point in the ''Literature/StarTrekDestiny'' novels could also be seen as something of a FixFic, when Geordi is absolutley ''livid'' that Picard would even ''suggest'' building the same type of thalaron generator that killed Data as a last-ditch effort to stop the Borg. The fierce [[WhatTheHellHero ass-chewing]] he gave Picard--''the'' Jean-Luc Picard--speaking to how deeply he was affected by Data's death, and how raw that wound still was. |
| 270 | ** Apparently there was a scene filmed where Geordi and Worf go through Data's belongings after his death, but even THAT sounds like it was just a set-up for a joke involving Worf and Data's cat Spot. |
| 271 | ** Shock? It's not that uncommon in real life for people to have difficulty coming to terms with a loss of that magnitude, and Geordi's dealing with it on top of the stress/exhaustion from the preceeding battle. It'll probably just take a day or two for it to fully sink in. |
| 272 | *** Not to mention the fact that he helped Data get onto the ''Scimitar'' in the first place, which would probably lead him to feel responsible (even if Data wouldn't want him to). If he accepts that Data's gone, he has to deal with not only the pain of losing his best friend, but also the guilt he would almost certainly feel. It's no wonder he'd be UnableToCry right away. |
| 273 | [[/folder]] |
| 274 | [[folder:A Wedding And No Funeral?]] |
| 275 | * And while we're on the subject, where the hell was Data's funeral? Yeah, he had no next-of-kin to speak of, but he was a decorated high-ranking Starfleet officer who died in the line of duty. You'd think that would warrant some kind of damn ceremony. If there's no room in the movie budget to show it, fine: have the crew do the toast in their dress uniforms just before they depart for the unseen ceremony. |
| 276 | ** Narratively, the wake in the Ready Room served this function. There's a pretty clear TimeSkip in the ending, with the Enterprise having enough time for much of the external hull damage to have been patched up by the time the film ends, which likely means any official ceremony could easily have been slotted into that missing time. What was important in terms of the story is that the other main cast have their wake, rather than the grand ceremony surrounding Data's death. |
| 277 | [[/folder]] |
| 278 | [[folder:Keeping the film canon]] |
| 279 | * This wiki notes that ''Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier'' more or less underwent CanonDiscontinuity because of its negative reception; with there being a mandate in place to not refrence the films events; an edict not broken until ''WesternAnimation/StarTrekLowerDecks'' decades later. So why didn’t that happen to this film? It was just as reviled critically, and unlike ''Final Frontier'', ''Nemesis'' failed to turn a profit becoming a gigantic BoxOfficeBomb. So why wasn’t this film shunned? |
| 280 | ** I have found no substantive evidence that The Final Frontier is CanonDiscontinuity any more than I have found substantive evidence that the episode [[Recap/StarTrekVoyagerS2E15Threshold Threshold]] is. It all seems to be headcanon and rumour as far as I can tell. I also have issue with the much quoted idea that ''Star Trek V'' isn't referenced in later works too given the fact that we meet a race of floating heads at the centre of the galaxy in the episode [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS4E19TheNthDegree The Nth Degree]] which is clearly a direct reference to this film. If it isn't then that is the coincidence of the century to have two different writers invent two different races of floating heads in the exact same place. I can only think of one thing that has been definitely retconned and that is the speed of the ''Enterprise-A'' which clearly shouldn't be fast enough to traverse the galaxy in a few hours. |
| 281 | [[/folder]] |
| 282 |
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