| 1 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 2 | |
| 3 | [[folder: General (within the first three games)]] |
| 4 | * It's rather jarring how little that several characters, particularly Phoenix (and he's the protagonist), talk about their pasts. For instance, we know absolutely nothing about either Edgeworth's or Franziska's mothers. Even more bizarre is Phoenix: he never ONCE talks about his family. Was he an orphan? Did his parents die when he was young? I just get puzzled as to why they wouldn't talk about it more... |
| 5 | ** Well, in 3-3, Phoenix does mention that he's an only child. Though that's not much, and it is fairly late into the series. And given how Manfred von Karma was able to take custody of Edgeworth after DL-6, it's pretty likely that his mother is dead and his family is otherwise fairly small. Mentioning a bit more in-game still would have been nice, though. |
| 6 | ** These characters (especially Phoenix) are audience surrogates; they don't need to be as fleshed out with backstory because that would make them less relatable/more niche to an audience. |
| 7 | * Am I the only one who feels that the series and characters suffers from severe communications problems? I'll list several examples: |
| 8 | ** Why did Ema Skye not know that Mia Fey was dead at the beginning of 1-5? Considering Lana is the chief prosecutor, how did she fail to let Ema know that Mia was murdered months ago and that she should look for Phoenix instead? (Especially because, for the record, I get the feeling the whole "intellectual attraction" thing is putting it mildly...) |
| 9 | *** Because Lana never asked Ema to search for a defense attorney. As Lana put it: "I seem to remember specifically telling you NOT to come here." Ema most likely lied about saying her sister requested Mia Fey, because would you really ask a lawyer to defend someone who does not want your help? And no, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking "intellectually attracted" is not putting it mildly.]] |
| 10 | *** The above doesn't explain why Ema didn't hear about it in the newspapers, since Phoenix says that "Mia's murder was the talk of the town for some time..." at the start of Turnabout Samurai. |
| 11 | ** Why did Edgeworth not learn about the case involving Phoenix, Mia, and Dahlia until Case 3-5? Consider all the details: the trial involved an old childhood friend of his, it involved Dahlia, it involved the first lawyer Edgeworth had ever faced in court, and it was clearly related to Diego Armando getting poisoned. Furthermore, the first trial involving Dahlia clearly traumatized him; he even tells Phoenix that it was his worst nightmare. One would think that, one way or another, Edgeworth would have heard about it via some source or try to find out on his own, if only to give himself peace. |
| 12 | *** Even when Edgeworth saw Phoenix in person, he didn't seem all that attached to him. Keep in mind that while Phoenix put a lot of emphasis on his friendship with Larry and Edgeworth, Edgeworth really wasn't friends with them for long before DL-6 happened. So at that point in time, hearing that Phoenix was in the trial likely wouldn't have meant that much to him. Not to mention, it's possible he never heard about the trial when it was going on. Von Karma was prosecuting in Germany after all, so Edgeworth could very well have been there at the time. By the time he returned, everyone had moved past it. |
| 13 | *** This troper would like to add, in Japan, non-family relationships (particularly adult ones) which aren't regularly cultivated tend to devolve into simple acquaintances. It's more likely that Phoenix's treatment of Edgeworth is the exception. I think it's fairly logical for Edgeworth (per the Japanese writing) to pick up the paper and maybe read up on the cases, but not necessarily to look it up. Also, given his being raised by Von Karma, his past ties could all be seen as weaknesses weighing him down. |
| 14 | ** Most bothersome of all is the whole story of Misty Fey and her disappearance. Why did it take Godot/Diego Armando of all people to find her? If the government was keeping track of her the whole time, why didn't Mia or Maya go to the police? Did Mia even bother to ask the police while she was a lawyer and still alive? Did they refuse to help her or just not succeed in finding Misty? In any case, why? And even if only prosecutors and/or other high-level people could afford to do that type of stuff, why didn't Mia ask Lana Skye and/or Lana's associates to help her, considering the fairly close and significant relationship they had? But wait, it gets WORSE: even if Mia couldn't do it for some reason or another before her death, why didn't Maya (maybe with help from Phoenix) ask for assistance from influential people (most notably Edgeworth, considering his vast influence and connections, and even more so the fact that Maya and Phoenix saved his life)? Furthermore, Phoenix's victory over Manfred von Karma, as Sister Bikini states, redeemed the Fey Clan in the eyes of the public. Misty would have had no reason to be in exile anymore, and she could have begun to rebuild her relationship with Maya... |
| 15 | *** The way everyone talked about Misty's disappearance, it seemed more like they understood it was voluntary. Given that the government was keeping an eye on her, it was entirely possible that there was some witness protection thing going on, to make sure she was kept safe from possible fallout over the aftermath of the DL-6 incident. That would also explain why Mia only focused on clearing Misty's name and why Maya never bothered trying to have her found. They both knew she had to go into hiding and probably were figuring that she'd be back when she could. (Notice, after all, that when Misty shows up, it's in disguise and with a new name. Yes she's working undercover, but the way Pearl talks about her, it's pretty clear that she's been living under her children's author identity for some time.) |
| 16 | * The judged just kinda declares the defendant guilty or not guilty. Shouldn't there be some kind of jury vote? |
| 17 | ** No. The ''Ace Attorney'' games are actually brutal satires of the Japanese legal system (particularly as it existed prior to reforms in the mid-2000's). Under that regime, juries for criminal proceedings are not automatic – in fact they used to not exist at all – and the Judge makes the final ruling. ''Apollo Justice'', which came out shortly after Japan started revamping its courts, introduces a jury. |
| 18 | ** Actually, the games aren't (intentional) satires of the Japanese legal system, according to creator Shu Takumi. |
| 19 | * If Japanese courts, and thus, ''Ace Attorney'' courts, don't have juries, who are all those people sitting in the benches? I suppose you could call them the "peanut gallery" or spectators, but do they serve any real purpose? |
| 20 | ** They're basically the {{Audience Surrogate}}s. They murmur to themselves while the court trial goes on, and it's only when the judge gets sick of the bench people that he suspends the trial. |
| 21 | *** I meant from a realistic standpoint. What reason do they have to be there? If there is no jury in these types of courts, than why let anyone apart from witnesses and such attend the trial? In real life, why would there be an audience without a jury? |
| 22 | *** This is actually [[TruthInTelevision Truth In Television]], seeing how there is a principle on most jurisdictions named "Publicity of Processual Acts". Namely, on most countries, people are allowed to watch court proceedings (Civil, Criminal or related to Work Law, to name a few) and are able to find rulings of cases solved in court or through the Internet. This is made in order to assure that the common citizen has access to law and knows how it works and what is expected from a citizen. The exception to that rule, however, are the cases protected by what is called in my country as "judicial secret", which contains the cases that involve the intimacy of a person (e.g., brutal rape cases or civil proceedings about divorce). |
| 23 | * How come a lot of characters bring dangerous objects to court? In the second game, Franziska von Karma has a whip; in the first one, Marshall brings a KNIFE, and is seen with it at the stand, yet no one says a word! |
| 24 | ** In 3-5 this actually does get brought up, the Canadian Judge calls out Franziska's whip being unreasonable before Edgeworth says he doesn't mind it and she should be allowed to keep it, and the Judge just goes with it from there. It's likely that the normal Judge also originally called these things out, but clearly the prosecutors of this universe are typically crazy and by this point the Judge knows even if he stops 1 from bringing a crazy item the next one will still bring one anyway. |
| 25 | ** Well, in Franziska's case, she's a prosecutor. ''Ace Attorney'' court favors prosecutors to such a ridiculous extent that nobody probably cares if they bring dangerous things in. As for Marshall and anyone else... Well, consider how a lot of other dangerous things have happened in the courthouse (Diego's poisoning, Terry's suicide, etc.) and it's quite likely that the courthouse has crappy security anyway. |
| 26 | * Ok, I'm seriously confused. The whole DL-6 thing gives me a headache. Can someone explain to me exactly how Phoenix's success in solving the DL-6 murder shows Misty Fey is NOT a fraud? (To the public that is. Obviously I, the player, know it's totally legit.) Because the suspect Gregory Edgeworth's spirit accused was in fact innocent... so how is the Fey Clan making a recovery, as Sister Bikini states? |
| 27 | ** I always kind of assumed that, because the guy arrested for DL-6 turned out to be innocent, that people assumed that Misty was just making stuff up as opposed to actually channeling Gregory. When Phoenix proved that Manfred was the killer, I thought that would prove that Gregory had reason to be confused and give false info. Thus, people would have realized that Misty herself wasn't a fraud, and just because ''Gregory'' was the one who made the mistake doesn't mean that ''Misty'' is faking her skills. |
| 28 | ** Of course, this all begs the question of why she was considered a fraud in the first place. Yanni Yogi was found innocent due to temporary insanity from oxygen deprivation – not because he didn't do it. As far as the public knows, Misty Fey ''accused the right guy''. This is Yanni's entire motivation in case 1-4, after all. So why was Misty Fey disgraced at all? |
| 29 | *** It's possible that when Redd White leaked her involvement, he spun the story like "Hey look! The police used a medium who named an innocent man as the guilty party!" It wouldn't be accurate, but Redd certainly loved to ruin lives, so why not go after Misty while he had the chance? |
| 30 | *** Actually, as far as the public is concerned, Yogi was innocent. Hammond wasn't arguing that "he killed Gregory, but it wasn't his fault since he was temporarily insane". Hammond (successfully) argued that "since Yogi was temporarily insane, it was impossible for him to have been the culprit". That's why the case was labelled as "unsolved"; if Yogi was deemed "guilty, but it wasn't his fault", that would be a solved case. The reason why Yogi's life got ruined after that was because he was then seen as a lunatic (but not a murderer). |
| 31 | * Though I know the real reason is due to recycling sprites, do you think there's an in-game reason why the defendants are never given jail uniforms while incarcerated (You'll notice that when you come to the detention center, they'll be in their street clothes)? It seems that many of them are forced to stay in jail for more than 24 hours, so that would mean they'd have to be moved into the general prison population until trial and hence they'd need the proper uniforms. Do they just wear the clothes on their backs when incarcerated? |
| 32 | ** Eh, they probably figured that it's not enough of a big deal to justify adding new character sprites, and there's not really a need for an explanation anyway. |
| 33 | ** But Maggey Byrde was in jail for over a month and still in her waitress outfit, which was a new sprite specifically designed for her appearance in the game rather than a reuse. |
| 34 | ** Forcing defendants to appear in court in a jail uniform might prejudice the court against them. This doesn't explain what they wear at the detention center, but it applies to what they wear in court or right before they go to court. |
| 35 | *** Someone should have mentioned that during the trial of Terry Fawles. |
| 36 | *** Perhaps Fawles was within his rights to request a change of clothes (he remained in the same outfit in which he was arrested, which he hadn't changed out of since escaping), but being mentally ill, never thought to. It seems quite "in-character" for the Ace Attorney court system to place the burden of that kind of choice on the defendant. |
| 37 | ** It's understandable why a non-Japanese speaker wouldn't be privy to the explanation for this one, as it's covered in the second Miles Edgeworth game. There's a difference between being in "detention" and being in "prison". Detention is for accused suspects who are awaiting a verdict. Prison is for those deemed "guilty" to serve out their sentences. You can wear your own clothes in detention, but once you're in prison, you've got a uniform. |
| 38 | *** As for why Maggey is still wearing her waitress outfit in detention, the game over dialogue (when your client gets a guilty verdict) states that the guilty party is supposed to be held trial at a higher court a month from the date the verdict was handed down. Maggey was probably still in detention because she was awaiting her next trial. |
| 39 | * While I can understand why it couldn't be used in court, why doesn't Phoenix start every case by going ''Series/PushingDaisies'' and having Maya or Pearl channel the victim and ask them what happened? The victim might lie or be wrong but it would be a start. |
| 40 | ** Think about it for a second: Even when there are witnesses or defendants that clearly see things, they always explain them wrong or understand them wrong. Channelling the victim only works if the victim can be fully trusted, if they accuse someone that didn't actually kill them it's going to wreck your case. This is looking past the fact that most courtrooms likely wouldn't let the murder victim testify, given them being there sort of invalidates the trial. |
| 41 | ** Because channelling the dead Gregory Edgeworth who didn't give accurate information was exactly how Misty Fey fell from grace and caused the Fall Of Kurain. Phoenix or Maya wouldn't want to repeat this catastrophe? |
| 42 | *** They wouldn't have to use it in court, they could just use it to get a hint as to the real killer's identity. Still, I'll admit there are a lot of times when the victim didn't see the killer, it would allow Phoenix to have a more believable reason for his wild accusations such as Luke Atmey, Godot, Damon Gant, etc |
| 43 | *** It's HEAVILY implied that channelling any spirit besides one from the Fey family requires an extensive and complex channelling. Mia specifically tells Phoenix, "You're lucky I was born a Fey." Not that he's lucky Maya was born a Fey, which implies that Maya was able to channel Mia so easily because she's the spirit of a Fey family member. In contrast, the (failed) channelling of Mini's spirit in case 2-2 required a rather specific camber set up, and a long session where they meditate on a mat just do channel her spirit. If they needed to do such a thing in order to channel the spirit of the victim each time, it'd be impossible. They couldn't just request that Kurain let them perform a channelling of a murder victim every other few months. |
| 44 | *** Mia is also aware of her families ability and wants to get channeled. There's a good chance it doesn't have to do with the blood as much as it has to do with the spirits willingness to cooperate. If you think about it, the only person we see get channeled other than Mia is Dahlia in case 3-5, and she knew there was a plan and looking for a channeler to summon her that night too. |
| 45 | * First of all - How does Phoenix make a living? He only takes one case every three to six months or so, and has at least once spoke of working for free. Still, he seems to not be starving, and he never says anything about working another job. On top of this, apparently he's taking care of Maya, who can theoretically eat her weight in food. |
| 46 | ** Perhaps he's living off some vast inheritance, courtesy of Mia? There's also the fact that he did defend two very famous celebrities (Will Powers and Max Galactica). I imagine the two of them were quite generous after their acquittals. |
| 47 | ** It's stated explicitly in the first game that the five cases therein – argued over the course of a little over six months – were his only cases up to that point. After 2-2 (the next case chronologically), however, there is nothing suggesting that he doesn't also take more mundane work we just don't get to see, and plenty of hints that he does. |
| 48 | *** There is official manga where he takes on several other cases – still always murder, but any one of them could happen at some point between 2-2 and 3-5. |
| 49 | *** In the second and third games it's hinted that he ''does'' take cases quite frequently – he's become quite famous as an attorney, in fact – but we only see (and play) the more important of them. |
| 50 | *** Assuming that the only cases Phoenix takes are the ones we play in-game (after the first, anyway) is the same as assuming that Link can cross the country in only a few minutes in LOZ or that people all look the same in RPG's. |
| 51 | *** Note, however, that Maya makes fun of him in-game for only taking one case at a time. |
| 52 | *** To be fair to Phoenix in that situation, though, if you're defending in a criminal trial, it takes up all your time until it's over. Your client's ''life'' is at stake. |
| 53 | ** Also, an attorney can make money without dealing with cases. All sorts of things require legal advice or opinions, and Phoenix can probably make enough money to stay alive off of that (keeping in mind that the game does frequently imply that his finances aren't so healthy, of course.) |
| 54 | ** Speaking of salaries, how is it that no matter how many times Gumshoe's pay is cut, he somehow manages to get by with minimal food and lack of other necessities? |
| 55 | *** Gumshoe is currently paid so little that it's likely that his landlord takes pity on him and lets him 'forget' the rent. He is also mentioned to be buying cheaper and cheaper noodles, and he's always wearing the same clothes (he likely sold his dryer and lets his clothing air-dry, his fridge because noodles don't need to be refrigerated, etc.). Which is sad, really. Poor Gumshoe! |
| 56 | *** Yeah, Ramen Noodles are like, what, 16 cents a pack? |
| 57 | *** He says a couple of times in case 3-5 that he can't afford to pay his electricity bill. |
| 58 | ** Alternatively, Edgeworth may help him a bit, but he keeps it in secret. |
| 59 | ** I think that ever since the fourth case of game 1, Phoenix has been living off Manfred von Karma's money, which he was able to steal because Von Karma gave out his ATM number in the middle of court. |
| 60 | *** I think I love your theory. It can even spare Franny; she's a good prosecutor on her own, so she doesn't need daddy's inheritance! (though she may get a little bit pissed) |
| 61 | *** OBJECTION! You forgot the card. It doesn't matter if you have the ATM number if you don't have the card too. |
| 62 | *** OBJECTION! Do you have proof that Maya took only the DL-6 bullet from von Karma? She could have also took his credit card when leaping at him, *desk slam* otherwise how can she afford all these burgers?!! |
| 63 | ** Even if the only cases Phoenix takes are the ones we play (which is unlikely), he's still defended some pretty rich people – Edgeworth, Max, Engarde and [=DeLite=]. He could have just gotten a ''lot'' of money from them! |
| 64 | *** Not from Engarde, of course. Well, maybe from Engarde; Phoenix might have sued him. Getting a guilty verdict doesn't mean you don´t have to pay your lawyer. …Suddenly, the ending of JFA has become even sweeter. Burn, Matt, burn. |
| 65 | *** Adding fuel to that fire, consider all of the massive purchases that are made at the end of that case, and where the money had to come from to pay for it all. Burn indeed. |
| 66 | ** Has nobody even considered that even though we might never see them, there might be other lawyers working at the Wright and Co. Law offices, and that as manager and owner, Phoenix gets a portion of the profits from their cases? |
| 67 | *** Nope. Mia called it "Fey & Co." because she took on Phoenix. After she died, Phoenix kept the "& Co." part of the name even though he was the only attorney there, possibly out of respect to Mia. He was always the only attorney there (with Maya or Pearl [or Ema that one time] as his assistant). That only changed once he got his badge back and took on Apollo and later Athena. |
| 68 | *** Wait, doesn't the "& Co." part mean Maya? |
| 69 | ** If you want a theory that has no direct evidence for it in the games and seems sort of unlikely but is fully consistent with the games – Maya could have sued Redd White. The plaintiff's attorney usually gets about 30% of the settlement, while the referring attorney who directs the plaintiff to the lawyer who represents her gets about 5%. Given that Maya could have conceivably gotten millions from White, either percentage would be a tidy sum. |
| 70 | *** That would most likely be a civil matter. Phoenix probably ''could'' handle that case if he wanted to, but given that he specializes in high-stakes criminal proceedings, it's doubtful he would do so ''or'' be able to recommend a lawyer who could. |
| 71 | ** There may be plenty of unshown cases. His nearly flawless record would attract clients plus the famous clients (Will Powers, Maximilian Galactica, Matt Engarde) probably helped publicity. |
| 72 | *** Defending Engarde certainly wouldn't have helped Phoenix's publicity. |
| 73 | ** Why wouldn't it? It would make Phoenix less attractive a lawyer to guilty clientele because they know he'll work harder for the truth than he will for an acquittal, but his actions dealing with Engarde would have easily made him into a superstar attorney. He took a high-profile case, and against immense odds managed to get the guilty party his just desserts, even when that guilty party was his client. Falsely-accused innocent defendants would flock to a man with his track record. Once the facts of the case came out publicly, there's no reason his reputation would have suffered. |
| 74 | * Sure, Matt Engarde was a special case where it didn't work. But why doesn't Phoenix in the second and third game just whip out his magatama at every suspect and ask them if they committed the crime? If Psyche-Locks showed up when they said no, he'd know to look harder at that person and find all the evidence that they did it. |
| 75 | ** It depends on what your theory is for "special case". If it's a WordingSnag, whose problem is it? Or is it that it the question wasn't problematic, but because no one (at that point) was aware of the possibility of murder-for-hire, the Psyche-Locks were invisible because they went beyond the scope of the question? Alternatively, it's something of a YouCantThwartStageOne problem. |
| 76 | ** Well, Wright almost always makes a big deal out of implicitly trusting his client. That doesn't explain, however, why he doesn't use the magatama during the trials. Sure, he'd look kind of weird waving around a piece of weird jewelry, but that's positively normal compared to some of the other lunacy going on. |
| 77 | ** Or maybe the Magatama isn't perfect and doesn't detect every lie. |
| 78 | ** At one point, I think it's explained that the Magatama only works against people that have secrets in their hearts. Not all secrets are held in the heart, perhaps. Plus, there's the implication that Phoenix is the only one that can see the results of the Psyche-Lock, since Maya and Pearl never comment on it. Finally, it seems as though using the Magatama is ''dangerous'', since if Phoenix runs out of energy while using it, he's told he has to stop, or his spirit will shatter. Waving it indiscriminately probably wouldn't help that. |
| 79 | *** Oh, and Phoenix isn't exactly practiced in the use of the Magatama. He's genuinely surprised when a Psyche-Lock appears, at which point he then has to wave the Magatama to break them. Probably not how it's supposed to be used... |
| 80 | ** What bothers me about the Magatama is why Phoenix, all the way up to the last case of game three, keeps assuming that someone is telling the truth just because of lack of locks when he's met Matt (who avoided being found out through a wording snag) and Atmey (who was able to outright lie to the thing). |
| 81 | *** Because a) He believes in his clients, b) He's naïve enough to assume people are telling the truth, or c) He's so confident in the times that the Magatama works that the times it doesn't slip his mind. Pick one. |
| 82 | *** Phoenix never acknowledges realizing that Luke Atmey basically tricked the Magatama in the third game. |
| 83 | ** Perhaps the Magatama only detects the lies that are addressed to its holder. In court, the witnesses lies are addressed to the judge, not Phoenix Wright specifically, and so the Magatama doesn't pick up on them. |
| 84 | *** This troper believes there is a proximity limit to it. That, and it can be also be cheated like your average lie detector. |
| 85 | *** Has no one even brought up what Pearls says: "The Magatama only works in consignment". Using it in a packed courtroom would mean that the secret wouldn't be able to be detected. |
| 86 | ** The magatama doesn't detect "lies," per se. It detects when the target of the magatama is trying to hide something. Matt Engarde is able to sidestep its effects because he doesn't need to hide the fact that he killed anyone, because "he" didn't kill anyone. It's when Phoenix tries to push him about "the secret" Juan Corrida had on him that the psyche-locks show up. |
| 87 | * Why does Larry call Phoenix "Nick?" Unless it's his middle name, it has nothing to do with his name or personality. |
| 88 | ** Are you sure it has "nothing" to do with his name? He's just saying the "-nix" part but in a more sensible name thing. It's not like it isn't a common way to nickname the name "Phoenix". |
| 89 | *** Thank you very much. It's strange how things as simple as that can bother me so much and be so obvious. |
| 90 | * In the "Turnabout Big Top" episode of ''Justice For All'', both Phoenix and Franziska say that Edgeworth never went to another case as prosecutor after "Turnabout Goodbyes" in the first game. However, how is that possible when the credits that roll directly after Turnabout Goodbyes show at least one instance where Edgeworth is again arguing with Phoenix in court? Something just doesn't add up here. |
| 91 | ** You've got me there. And why didn't they bother rewriting the DS remake of ''Justice For All'' a little to compensate for "Rise from the Ashes", the bonus fifth chapter of ''Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney''? |
| 92 | *** Phoenix has amnesia in 2-1 and his memory returns because of Maya. Guess which case Maya wasn't involved in? Phoenix probably doesn't even remember "Rise from the Ashes" until Edgeworth returns in 2-4. |
| 93 | *** That leads into a pretty interesting case of AesopAmnesia: The lesson that Edgeworth gives Phoenix in 2-4 is ''the same lesson'' that ''Phoenix'' gave ''Edgeworth'' in RFTA! |
| 94 | *** Okay, I checked the exact line. Phoenix's EXACT line is the following: "But after "that" case was over... He "vanished"..." A short time later, he says "After that case, Edgeworth was in a peculiar state, and he got worse everyday. He never set foot into court again... And then one day, he just vanished." Note that at no time does Phoenix actually say the case IS "Turnabout Goodbyes". You did see a picture from that case when Phoenix thinks "But after "that case was over..." But I do not believe that at any time they specifically said which case they were referring to. The picture shown makes you think of "Turnabout Goodbyes" but I do not believe the dialogue ever stated it was that case. Back in the GBA version, they were referring to the case with Manfred, but in the DS version, with "Rise from the Ashes", it's clear they were referring to "Rise from the Ashes". Bottom line: The picture shown is retroactively incorrect, but the dialogue never contradicts "Rise from the Ashes".\ |
| 95 | \ |
| 96 | In fact, Phoenix referencing "Rise from the Ashes" makes just as much sense as "Turnabout Goodbyes", since RFTA lays bare just how corrupt the prosecutor's office had become, and Edgeworth himself was called out in open court multiple times. Even though he didn't personally do anything wrong, Lana's actions proved the rumours correct and destroyed his reputation. It's only natural he'd skip the country after that to recuperate and reassess his life. |
| 97 | ** It doesn't seem like what Phoenix thinks about Edgeworth in ''Justice For All'' makes sense either way. Phoenix finds out in the first game that Edgeworth became a prosecutor and was so aggressive in getting convictions is because Von Karma murdered his dad and manipulated him. He's already clearly turning a new leaf even before then since he raised an objection to keep the Steel Samurai case going and find the real criminal. It makes even less sense if you take the "Rise From The Ashes" case as canon, since it reveals Edgeworth wasn't responsible for any forged evidence. |
| 98 | *** First of all, Phoenix is undoubtedly upset with Edgeworth for writing such a misleading and depressing note. Second, Phoenix misinterpreted the reason for Edgeworth's depression (thinking that it was because his perfect win record was tarnished). Third, even if he never forged evidence, Edgeworth hid things from the court and was practically helping the culprit in case 1-2. In ''Trials and Tribulations'', you learn that Edgeworth also hid things from the court in case 3-4. |
| 99 | ** Regarding the original question, that scene with Phoenix vs Edgeworth in the end credits could be from the Nickel Samurai case. I think it was just a symbolic WeWillMeetAgain thing. |
| 100 | * Why is being a kid's TV actor such SeriousBusiness? Apparently, Matt has somehow become a millionaire from playing a character who is, essentially, a Franchise/{{Power Ranger|s}}. |
| 101 | ** It's mentioned that Matt and Juan's rivalry's been going on for a long time, and that their kids' shows are just the latest part of it, so presumably Matt's been in show business for a while. |
| 102 | ** But apparently a sign of Hammer's failing career was that he had to play the villain of 'The Steel Samurai' rather than the hero. It's as though somehow playing the Red Ranger is a sign of a healthy career, whereas playing Lord Zedd will get you completely ignored. It's just a little odd. |
| 103 | *** Correction: It was a sign of his failing career that he was in ''The Steel Samurai'' at all. The fact that he had to do it opposite a relatively inexperienced actor who was beloved by children all over the country was just salt in the wound. |
| 104 | *** What about all the movies he appeared in before then? Each one featuring a Samurai? Are they all supposed to be more serious samurai flicks? |
| 105 | ** ''Super Sentai'' (Power Rangers in Japan) and other shows of this format like ''Kamen Rider'', while essentially being a kid's show (even though the plots are often far more serious and complex than our Power Rangers) are very successful. It's been going on for what, 40 years now? So yeah, being the star of the newest season is probably a pretty big thing. |
| 106 | ** Oldbag said at some point that everyone loves the hero, but hates the villain. Jack being the villain means that the fans hate his character and by extension his only role. Because of that he has no fans and ratings will be messed up if he gets too much screen time. |
| 107 | ** If you're a hero, you fight with honor and earn respect. If you're a villain, you fight for yourself and earn ire. |
| 108 | * Manfred mentions he has a granddaughter (bringing up her dog) at one point, I haven't heard any mention of Franziska (or Edgeworth for that matter) being a parent. Her given age means she is still a minor, the only thing that comes to mind to explain her on non-existences is law school (very plausible) but where does she fit in? |
| 109 | ** WordOfGod says that Franziska has an elder sister, who has a daughter of her own. |
| 110 | *** I always thought he just made that up in order to give an example and make some fun of Phoenix in the meantime. |
| 111 | * Prior to ''Apollo Justice'', Phoenix really must have been the luckiest attorney around. Isn't it a bit distressing that his clients would have been found guilty if not for the fact that the contradictions were clearly visible? For example, in the second game's first case, Phoenix initially proves that the victim didn't write the killer's name with his right hand by showing evidence that he was left-handed. So, if the victim actually had been right-handed, the defendant would have been found guilty? Or if he hadn't received a glove? (It gets worse in the fourth case. Maya would have died if a)Adrian hadn't set a glass down on the dresser, or b)She had been as tall as Matt.) |
| 112 | ** Because Phoenix makes it clear that he works on the mantra that "if there's a lie or a false accusation, there's always a way to prove it". Even if the problems weren't clear, Phoenix would still be able to find SOME way around it if he tries hard enough. People forget that bluffing in itself is somewhat a skill. Phoenix is able to use bluffing in a way most people wouldn't be able to – to always win by finding something in anything, even if other things have nothing. The point is mainly this: Phoenix would find SOME way to win. We just see the one way he does it. If we didn't see that one way, it'd just go onto another way, and another and another. Phoenix's mental process of "there's always a contradiction if the truth is not yet found" means he is able to keep the bluffing going until he can find something to use. |
| 113 | ** Also, AcceptableBreaksFromReality. In real life, most murders aren't ''this'' elaborately staged; they tend to be more like what Redd White did (with oodles of evidence). |
| 114 | * Where exactly do the objects in the Court Record go after a case? |
| 115 | ** Various evidence rooms within the police department. |
| 116 | ** For that matter, I know that you have to present it to talk to people sometimes, but why is the Attorney's Badge always in the Court Record? Other than the fact that it belongs to the defense attorney, it has absolutely nothing to do with the case. |
| 117 | *** It seems really likely that the actual Court Record is a folio kept by the police/judicial system, and the informal "Court Record" is just Phoenix's way of keeping track of names and evidence while he's investigating, similar to Edgeworth's planner and Apollo's notebook. |
| 118 | * In 2-4 and especially in 3-5, Phoenix and other characters spend a lot of time worrying about whether Maya is dead, and in the Bad Ending of 2-4 Phoenix seems to be slightly uncertain whether she was really released alive or not. Surely there would be a really, really easy way to tell if this was the case? "Hey Pearl, could you channel Maya for us? You can't? Okay, still alive!" |
| 119 | ** For most of 2-4 they weren't worried that Maya would be dead, just in danger, as De Killer was keeping his word, and for most of 3-5 Pearls was unavailable, and when they found her she thought that her powers had disappeared when she couldn't summon Dahlia. Besides, Phoenix wouldn't let her do something like that because suddenly discovering that Maya was indeed dead would surely traumatize her. Even if Pearl wasn't aware of it (due to how spirit channelling works), Phoenix would most definitely be traumatized. |
| 120 | *** There's still the 'I never saw Maya again' stuff in the Bad Ending, though? I mean, in a situation like that, surely Pearl would rather know one way or the other, even though it'd suck. |
| 121 | *** I've always assumed in the Bad Ending that it was ''Phoenix'' that never saw Maya again, not so much the world itself. That is, Matt was found Not Guilty, Maya is released, but is so disappointed in Phoenix for allowing Matt to go free that she cuts off all contact. Presumably, this includes Pearl as well since Pearl is more loyal to Maya than Phoenix. One presumes Phoenix could just go to Kurain Village to say hi, but maybe he knows that she wouldn't see him. |
| 122 | *** More likely, Phoenix was too ashamed after the trial to ever see Maya again. He ran out of the courtroom after the verdict was handed down, remember? |
| 123 | ** In case 3-5, Pearl thought that she had lost her power as a channeler. Phoenix could test that by asking Pearl to channel Misty once he found out who the victim was, but that would require admitting to Pearl that Misty was dead. |
| 124 | * How is it that all the photos we get in the first three games are black and white? I believe we are in the future, surely we have excellent quality cameras to take excellent quality crime scene photos. And then we wouldn't waste time speculating whether something is a splotch of paint or blood... |
| 125 | ** I've heard this somewhere before a long time ago, so I might not be exactly correct: A Black-and-white photo can sometimes be better than a color one because you can see things better. Especially in the dark. |
| 126 | *** Black and white photographs have sharper images and are prone not to fade. Though if they are better in the dark I'm not sure about. |
| 127 | * Where do all the chains go after all a person's Psyche-Locks break? Do they get re-used again in other sessions? |
| 128 | ** Em...those chains aren't real you know, they just disappear after they are broken. |
| 129 | ** They're just mental imagery. If they were real chains, the person being examined would see them. Which they don't. Since they don't exist, it doesn't really matter what happens to them. |
| 130 | * Why is Will Powers playing the Pink Princess? That's just creepy. |
| 131 | ** I dunno, but the weird thing is that apparently the Steel Samurai is a major player in Pink Princess. So unless they got another guy to play the Samurai, it would be assumed that Powers would have continued to play as the Steel Samurai. My personal theory is that Global Studios just went with Oldbag to play the Pink Princess on the show, because that would be hilarious. |
| 132 | *** While it's stated that Pink Princess was a sequel to the Steel Samurai, was it ever stated that the Steel Samurai was actually a main character in the Pink Princess? I always kind of assumed that, because it's also stated that Will is the Pink Princess, the Steel Samurai was a minor character at most who they could have a stunt double play. |
| 133 | ** Real life toku heroines have often been played by male stunt actors under their suits, though this has become less common recently due to more women getting into stunt work. |
| 134 | ** No, you're getting it wrong. Cody Hackins says in the credits that he has seen the actress who plays the Pink Princess, and that she is horrible. So, Will Powers is probably playing another character. Maybe the Steel Samurai again. |
| 135 | *** HOLD IT! ''You're'' wrong. What Cody said was that the "person" in the Pink Princess suit was incredibly ugly. Remember, he never saw Will Powers (or Jack Hammer) take off the Steel Samurai suit, so never associated the him with the character. It's only natural he'd expect a girl to be inside the Pink Princess uniform, so when he saw Will take off the suit, he just assumed Will was an extremely ugly woman. |
| 136 | *** OBJECTION! When trying to prove to Cody that you are in fact a fan of the Steel Samurai, you have the option of choosing "Will Powers' Acting", to which Cody replies that you must be a hardcore fan. This implies his knowledge of Will Powers, and his work on the show as the Steel Samurai. |
| 137 | *** He could just know Powers by name from the credits without looking him up or something. And since Powers said that he doesn't want to disappoint the kids with his real face, he might go out of his way to hide his identity when he's not working. |
| 138 | * Why do people not believe in spirit mediums when the channeller obviously physically changes into the channel-ee? In particular, Misty Fey in DL-6; why was she considered a fraud because the guy she testified against was found not guilty (on an insanity plea, at that), when anyone in the courtroom could have seen her ''[[GenderBender turn into a man]]''? |
| 139 | ** I'm pretty sure she did it privately, not in court. So while the cops who asked her may believe her, the public doesn't and they probably can't say so without losing their jobs. The real question is why it took a psychic to tell them that the one person in the room who was armed and not a ten-year old did it..., or why his being 'crazy' at the time caused her to be seen as wrong. They didn't ask why he got shot, just who shot him. Even if he was wrong... I think it's mainly just so Phoenix can't just have Maya/Pearl summon the victim and have them tell what happened. |
| 140 | ** Also, Edgeworth refuses to believe in it despite the number of times he's been in court when Maya magically morphs into her dead older sister right in front of him. Even weirder since Franziska ''does'' know it's real. |
| 141 | *** It's somewhat implied that Edgeworth's disbelief isn't so much actual skepticism as it is the fact that he doesn't ''want'' to think it's real, because of the horrible connections the Kurain technique holds for him. |
| 142 | ** It's also heavily implied that when a spirit is channeled not everyone can see that spirit, only those who either believe in spirit channelling or those that have a strong bond to the spirit. This is implied seeing as how when Penny Nichols sees Mia-possessed Maya she exclaims "is that girl the same person as before?" not "That girl IS a different person from before." She also very quickly and easily drops the issue even though anyone with working eyes can clearly see that they were not the same. I could bet that Penny was actually seeing Maya (Phoenix only being able to see Mia her because he had a strong bond to her), but the way Mia's spirit made Maya's body stand/look in terms of posture was what made her ask.\ |
| 143 | \ |
| 144 | Also, when Godot sees Pearl turn into Mia in the middle of the trial he doesn't react in the way you would expect him to react if he saw his departed girlfriend standing before her (shouting out "OH MY FUCKING GOD!" etc); he is a only a little shocked, which could imply that Godot in fact saw Maya standing in a Mia-like way making him think of Mia or something like that. That would explain why Maya could transform into the victim of the current trial right in front of anyone with out them so much as questioning it or bringing it up. Also when Phoenix first sees Maya transformed into Mia he sees her in Mia's old chief clothes, implying that what people see is not what is visibly there. About the photo in "Reunion and Turnabout" showing Mia being channeled, it is possible that, seeing as how Fransiska apparently has no trouble in believing the channeling the photo was taken from her minds point of view. |
| 145 | *** But what about Victor Kudo? He doesn't know Mia (or Maya), and has no reason whatsoever to believe in spirit channeling, yet his reaction to Maya channeling Mia is pretty obvious. All he knows is that there is a much more adult stranger standing where a younger stranger was standing before. |
| 146 | *** And what about Maya channeling Dahlia in 3-5? Presumably not EVERYONE had a connection to the one being channeled… |
| 147 | ** IIRC, Godot ''does'' react to Pearl and Maya summoning Mia. He just doesn't freak out about it, and staying cool seems in-character for him. He does seem surprised when Mia is first channeled in 3-2. So it's probable that other people notice even if they don't directly comment on it. And while I can buy Franziska being able to see Maya channeling Mia because she supposedly studied up on the Kurain technique for 2-2... Why would that make ''the photo itself'' different? Unless camera magically gets altered... |
| 148 | *** Have you ever heard the term "photos don't lie"? Like mentioned above, it's certainly possible, maybe probable, that most people can't actually perceive a medium physically changing while channelling a spirit because their brains just don't expect it, but the camera ''will'' pick it up because it has no ingrained bias. In other words, unless they know either the medium, the spirit, or the technique, most people will see little to no difference[[note]] (maybe they vaguely notice subtleties like slightly different voice or posture)[[/note]] when they happen upon a channelling. The camera, however, shows the world "as it really is".\ |
| 149 | \ |
| 150 | As for actual people noticing Maya and/or Pearl changing, '''Examples''': Phoenix recognized Mia's voice and tone of speaking, so he saw her; Franziska was looking for the physical signs, so she saw it; the camera takes a picture of ''what's there'', not what it 'expects' to see; and when Maya is on the stand channelling Dahlia, therefore looking like Dahlia's twin sister Iris, everyone expects to see Iris, so that's what they see. It would also explain why Edgeworth is so adamant that the technique is fake – [[FridgeBrilliance after all, if he doesn't believe in it, it's not real]]. As for the rest of the court, even after Franziska explains the technique, it probably still doesn't click with them. |
| 151 | * If Larry, Phoenix, and Edgeworth were all not only childhood friends, but also in the same class, why is Larry a year younger than them? For a long time, I had assumed that Phoenix was 23 during the first case because I also assumed he would be the same age as Larry. Maybe Larry was just a few months younger than Phoenix, but it seems that game developers don't really pay that much attention to age save for flashbacks and aging everyone up for sequels. The only other explanation I could think of was that Larry somehow managed to skip a grade... but that seems unlikely. |
| 152 | ** He probably has a late birthday. It's not unheard of. |
| 153 | *** Or, Phoenix and Edgey could have earlier birthdays, like the OP stated. In my school, I'm at the average age for my grade, but I have friends who are older than me because they were born months earlier in the same year as me. This is always what I've assumed. |
| 154 | *** Larry had a late birthday. I think there was this article about at what age are Japanese children allowed to attend school. |
| 155 | * Where on earth do Phoenix/Maya live? They obviously don't live in the law firm (since Phoenix actually comes in to visit Mia in 1-2) and I don't see Maya renting out an apartment or something so... |
| 156 | ** '''''[[red:OBJECTION!]]''''' ::pointing:: Think back to the phone conversation that opens 1-2... ::slams desk, ThemeMusicPowerUp:: where Maya mentions that she is getting used to living in her own place! ::speed lines:: She does indeed have an apartment (or similar)! |
| 157 | *** [[SugarWiki/FunnyMoments You win]]. Anything and everything, forever. |
| 158 | ** By the time of ''Apollo Justice'', Phoenix probably ''does'' live in that office since, y'know, he lost his means of living. It's certainly a lot more lived-in than it was during his first stint as a defense attorney. |
| 159 | * So Edgeworth leaves the prosecutor's office for a year, making people think he'd died, and in ''Investigations'' it's revealed he'd been gone for at least a month to study law overseas. Here's what I want to know: What about his frigging dog?! It's a known fact that he HAS one, so who's been looking after it while he's been gone? Surely if they thought its owner was dead, poor Pess would have been sent to the pound or something. It's not like he brought Pess with him, so [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse what happened to the dog?]] The only thing I can think of is Gumshoe, really, but I doubt he has the funds to look after himself, let alone a pet. |
| 160 | ** The only person who thought Edgeworth had died was Phoenix, along with anyone who got the information from Phoenix. Even then, this was an intentional exaggeration on Phoenix's part; he simply thought Edgeworth to be dead because he'd rather think that than believe Edgeworth just gave up. Furthermore, it wouldn't have been too unlikely for a guy like Edgeworth to just pay Gumshoe to watch over his dog. Or someone else, for that matter. There ARE dog sitters in the world. |
| 161 | * Since when does a defense attorney have to find the real guilty party to clear his defendant's name? I mean, in several of the cases, you make it clear that your client couldn't have done it, but even so, your client is found guilty unless you find who the real killer is. Law does not work like that. |
| 162 | ** It has been pretty much established that Phoenix Wright works in the worst legal system in all of history. In fact, the only real legal right the accused still has is the right to an attorney and a speedy trial – 3-day maximum in court, one or two days after being arrested for the crime. Even if the victim has not been identified. |
| 163 | ** Actually it's been implied that Phoenix ''wants'' to find the culprit, rather than ''has'' to. In 3-2 when he allmost won, Godot pointed out that he still hasn't proven thad Luke is the killer, and Pheonix said something along the lines "even if i prove Ron's innocence, Luke will go free". In 2-4 he also stated that finding the killer would be the quickest way to win the trial if Engarde is innocent. Meaning it's not so much nessecity as far as the story goes but rather Phoenix need for justice to be done. |
| 164 | * Why do the killers happen to involve themselves with the case when the prime suspect is someone else? For example, in game 2 case 2, Ini Miney could have just not said anything at all. Her testimony was used to throw even more suspicion on Maya, but if she had kept her mouth shut, no one would have ever suspected that she was involved in any way. But for some reason, she just had to be a witness and provide testimony, and that's what made her plans fall apart. A similar thing happens in game 2 case 1. The real murderer was, as far as everyone was concerned, just a random passerby. He could've just recovered the phone and skedaddled, with nothing linking him to crime at all. IdiotBall indeed. |
| 165 | ** '''''[[red:OBJECTION!]]''''' In 2-1, it's revealed that, thanks to his involvement in a ring of con artists, Richard Wellington had pretty much lost his ability to make rational judgements due to paranoia. The fact that Dustin Prince was still in his police uniform when he arrived did not ease matters much for him. And he couldn't have grabbed his phone after the accident because he didn't know where it was, and since his glasses were currently underneath Dustin Prince's body, he couldn't see well enough to look for it. |
| 166 | ** And as for Ini/Mimi Miney, because she didn't want anyone to discover that she was actually still alive, she actually had decent reason to stick around and give testimony. The main reason she cooperated with Morgan was so that her secret wouldn't come out, so of course she'd make sure that Maya gets declared guilty. |
| 167 | * Two words: Reasonable Doubt. What is up with that? I get seriously bugged whenever a case drags on well after I have poked notable holes in the crucial witnesses and evidences of the prosecution but still have to do their job for them. I understand that it is supposed to be about how the Japanese court system favours convictions massively but it feels insane how far you are made to go. |
| 168 | ** You pretty much stated the reason in what you said. In Japanese courts, reasonable doubt doesn't exist… or if it does it sure as hell isn't used very often. The defense always has the burden of proof. The entire point of Japanese courts are for lawyers to prove the prosecution's case is FLAT OUT WRONG, not that it's faulty. This is of course the ''exact opposite'' of how American courts work (in criminal trials, the burden is ''always'' on the prosecution to prove the accused did something, not on the defense to prove they didn't). |
| 169 | * Why does Gumshoe call everyone 'sir', even when the person is a girl? This is really noticeable, especially when talking to Franziska. |
| 170 | ** VerbalTic? Gumshoe's not very high up on the food chain, so it could just be that he constantly addresses people as "sir" in an attempt to be respectful. |
| 171 | ** He's not addressing her as a gender, he's addressing her as a rank. Male or female, "Sir" is considered the proper way to address a person who ranks above you in many real-world military organizations, and police are often simply an offshoot of military, using many of the same standards and policies. Gumshoe addresses everyone as "Sir" because of his inferiority complex; he's effectively acknowledging ''everyone'' as being above him. |
| 172 | ** Then why does he refer to Pearl as "sir"? |
| 173 | *** Pearl's a top member of a powerful group of mystics and lives in a wealthy village composed mostly of spacious temples. Gumshoe has a tiny apartment and considers ramen a luxury. I know which of the two I'd rank higher, and that's without considering respect or an inferiority complex. |
| 174 | * What is up with the Feys being able to read Phoenix's mind? Is it a mistake with the writers (not distinguishing whether Phoenix is talking in his mind or not) or is it something that comes with spirit medium powers? |
| 175 | ** I always assumed that when Phoenix's dialogue is in brackets, he's not necessarily thinking, just not talking to anyone in particular. Mia and Maya can pick up on his thoughts in court because he was just saying them under his breath. |
| 176 | ** My thought is that it's a bit of a joke. Phoenix is so bad at keeping a secret that you can practically read his mind just by looking at his body language. |
| 177 | ** Also, during case 1-2, wasn't it mentioned towards the end of the second investigation, in Mia's notes on her investigation on the DL-6 case, that Mia has ESP? That explains her, and it's probable that the rest of the Feys have ESP too as part of their spirit powers. |
| 178 | ** I'm pretty sure other characters have caught Phoenix on that too. I think he's just muttering under his breath; sometimes, people hear him, but it usually goes unnoticed. |
| 179 | * Why is it that whenever you point out a contradiction in the witnesses testimony that makes them look guilty, they (or the prosecutor) looks like they just took a hit? |
| 180 | ** OBJECTION! RuleOfCool. |
| 181 | *** OOF! |
| 182 | ** And because trials are such SeriousBusiness. |
| 183 | * I know it's like their religion or whatever, but... how much of what the Feys believe is actually true? Clearly, spirit channelling is real in the AA universe, but some of the other things they believe in don't seem to hold up. A blatant example would be how in the final case of the third game, they go on and on about the importance of the demon warding hoods. Those don't seem to work at all, considering that they're supposed to "protect against evil spirits", but in fact an "evil spirit" wore one (or so she and Godot said)! The charms written on the walls of the Main Hall didn't seem to help much in preventing tragedy either. Phoenix's opinion that the "special training course" in that case is a scam doesn't exactly seem to be disproven either. "A block of 'spirit ice?'" Chanting the same "spell" 30,000 times? No one ever casts a spell in the games (aside from Pearl enchanting the magatama), and all the magicians in the series are illusionists. Another example relates to the urn that was first introduced in the second game and also makes its appearance in the third game. This urn is supposed to contain the spirit of Ami Fey. Pearl believes that breaking the urn would cause the spirit to leave, something that I'm assuming represents an actual Fey clan belief. Yet no one seems to notice the difference, even when Pearl has its legitimacy checked at the village in the third game. |
| 184 | ** As you said, they believe it is true. Every religion has its beliefs, some are supported by facts and some aren't. Chanting the same spell over and over under ice does what it does in real life by enhancing focus and I think that the hood is more a symbolic thing, like the symbols. And for breaking the urn with Ami Fey's spirit, it's practically a Fey ''tradition'' at this point (Mia and Maya broke it too). The urn was probably just a symbol of power, and her spirit – if it was sealed in there to begin with – is probably long gone. |
| 185 | ** For all their vaunted spirit channelling, Master Misty Fey is the only spirit medium in the trilogy who actually manages to channel someone who isn't a direct blood relation. The channelling itself is real enough, but nowhere near as diverse as the Feys often suggest, save for those with decades of practice, it seems. The rest of the religion is more or less portrayed as a "take it as you will" thing. Phoenix himself is skeptical, but he's fluent in Lawyer – it's not true to him until it can be proven with decisive evidence and reliable witness testimony, and the ability to prove the spirit channelling does not, in and of itself, prove anything but the spirit channelling aspect of the faith (and even then, only the part where spirits can be channelled, and not any religious implications thereof). |
| 186 | * What exactly are spirits capable of seeing when they ''aren't'' being channelled? Mia, even when she's not being channelled, seems to have the ability to see what Maya sees in case 1-2. Sure, there are plenty of reasons for Mia to know a lot about that case, but how did she know without being told that Redd White had said that he saw the lamp stand? Unless she heard Maya tell Phoenix about Fey spirit mediums, why did Mia act like Phoenix should already know about her family's spirit powers when Phoenix said Mia never told him? Lotta even takes a photo in that game showing Mia's ghost, implying that a spirit can have a location in the physical world when not being channelled. If that's the case, why does Mia have to wait for Maya to channel her in the second game when they're trying to figure out where Shelley De Killer took her? Furthermore, in the third game, why can't Dahlia spy on people in case 3-5 before she's channelled to figure out where they are? |
| 187 | ** And as evidence to prove that the writers didn't change the rules of channelling in later games, Mia's first line in 3-2 continues a report card running gag that was used repeatedly during the cross-examination before she was channelled. |
| 188 | ** Spirits probably just exist in a spirit realm until they are needed. But since Mia died right in front of Phoenix[[labelnote:†]] (well, technically she died about five minutes before he arrived, so her spirit was probably still in her body as Maya and later Phoenix got there)[[/labelnote]], it makes sense that they share a bond even without blood. That's why she could talk in his head earlier and why she appeared in the photo. Later in the series, since she's just being dead, she doesn't know what's going on until she's channelled and presumably filled in mentally. Dahlia died alone in a prison, so the only ones she has any connection to are her sister and possibly her mother, both of whom she hated. |
| 189 | * What exactly is the point of the jury? All you ever see them do is talk at unexpected facts. |
| 190 | ** ''Apollo Justice'' makes it clear that the ''Phoenix Wright'' games don't have a jury. These people are most likely the peanut gallery. |
| 191 | *** In the manga, you can see the witnesses there when they're not on the stand, like Larry was in 1-5. |
| 192 | * In cases where the murder weapon is a pistol, it generally ends up with Phoenix proving that the defendant could not have fired said gun due to them being dominantly left/right-handed. However, that is insane. It's entirely possible for a left-handed person to shoot a gun with their right hand and vice-versa. After all, it's not rocket science, all you need to pull a trigger is an index finger, basically. So how come this always gets taken as a clear, hard proof that the defendant is innocent? |
| 193 | ** The only example of that I can think of is 1-4, in which the fingerprints on the gun are from the defendant's RIGHT hand, while Lotta's picture clearly shows the shooter using their LEFT hand. Though the prosecution then points out that the defendant could simply have wiped the prints off and then picked up the gun again with his other hand (stupid, but possible). |
| 194 | * Why does Phoenix say Larry is "not a close friend, but I know him" in AA:T&T? In "My First Turnabout" he calls Larry his best friend. |
| 195 | ** People change with time and life experiences. Larry probably was Phoenix's best friend in "My First Turnabout", but between all the new people who've become a major part of Phoenix's life in the years between that and T&T, and the fact that Larry's appearances become more and more {{facepalm}}-worthy with every case to the extent that even Phoenix starts to groan every time he realizes his case is going to have to revolve around freakin' ''Larry'' again (and, as such, that he's going to have to wrestle the truth kicking and screaming out of Larry as to what really happened), his opinion of Larry seems to have waned as his profession advanced. Even his reactions seem to steadily shift from "Oh hey, Larry" to "Oh god, not you again." |
| 196 | *** Which is exactly the reaction you'd expect from a lawyer who crosses paths with Larry during an investigation. It's hard to tell what Nick actually thinks of Larry, but ''no sane lawyer'' would want to have to deal with Larry during a trial or investigation. It's not that he's a bad guy but that he's prone to shooting his mouth off and fudging the details (to cover his poor work habits), which is ''exactly'' the kind of thing that destroys credibility when testifying. |
| 197 | *** Then, add in the fact that Larry doesn't even show up in the second game, and in the third game Phoenix outright says he hasn't heard much from Larry since the events of 1-4. Not having talked to him in a while probably dulled things a bit, and didn't help how much more annoying Larry has gotten. Nick is probably thinking something like "The first time I see this guy in a while, he just ''has'' to go do something stupid." |
| 198 | *** And then there's the fact that Phoenix found out at the end of 1-4 that Larry was actually the one who stole Edgeworth's lunch money that led to the class trial. Phoenix was so strongly affected by that incident that he derailed his whole life to become a defense attorney the moment he found out Edgeworth became a "demon prosecutor"! While Phoenix doesn't completely end his friendship with Larry, his subsequent reaction does suggest some deep-seated sore feelings and a small grudge. |
| 199 | * I was wondering this for a while: Phoenix won a "Not Guilty" verdict for Edgeworth ''twice'', once for the murder of Hammond, and once for the murder of Gregory Edgeworth. Plus, he won a "Not Guilty" verdict for Delite ''twice'', once for being Mask☆[=DeMasque=], and once for the murder of Kane Bullard. So, all in all, this means that Phoenix has been in 6 (State v. Butz, Fey, Powers, Edgeworth*2, Skye) + 4 (State v. Byrde, Fey, Galactica/Johns, Engarde) + 4 (State v. Delite*2, Byrde, Iris) = 14 known trials, not the commonly assumed 12 trials, right? And he's only lost one, and that one he intentionally lost. |
| 200 | ** You forgot when HE was being accused of Mia's murder. That's 15. And I have no idea. Generally speaking, I tend to count all separate crimes and defendants as different trials, but that's just me. |
| 201 | * How does Edgeworth and the prosecutor's office have any say over the salaries of the police department? |
| 202 | ** Either A) The state views the police department as an evidence-finding service, and a direct off shoot of their prosecutor's office, or B) They legally don't (Edgeworth does mention a pay review several times) and Edgeworth and Franziska are just in a special position to slash Gummy the way they do because he's their assigned detective |
| 203 | * Why does everyone try to make Dee Vasquez look more sympathetic than she actually was? She was a cold, abusive blackmailer who had no issue with ordering her mafia goons to execute Phoenix and Maya. If Gumshoe was a more competent policeman she would have been arrested for attempted murder. |
| 204 | ** Probably because the murder in 1-3 ''was'' technically accidental and in self-defense (since Jack was the one who came after her). It's true that it was her fault that Jack wanted to kill her, but I suppose fandom took the "accidental" part and just ran with it. |
| 205 | * I know Phoenix isn't the nicest guy in the game, and I know Gumshoe can annoy him somewhat, but what was his problem during Gumshoe's introduction in ''Trials & Tribulations''? In 2-4, Gumshoe was a big help in gathering evidence to help find Maya. How does Phoenix introduce him in 3-2? "Oh no! Not him again!" What the hell? |
| 206 | ** I can really understand Phoenix in this regard. Gumshoe, while adorable and a rather nice person, is usually trying to gather evidence against your client, withholds information and isn't all that bright. It got better over the games, as Gumshoe warmed up to Phoenix, but Nick would probably have preferred a more competent detective on the case. |
| 207 | ** This bugs me too. Gumshoe ''constantly'' proves himself to be a remarkable asset, whether it's providing useful exposition on the case and suspects, providing evidence, providing information regarding the evidence, etc. On two separate occasions, he risks life and limb to save Phoenix and Maya from mobsters, allowing them to escape with vital evidence. He supplies tools like the metal detector that was ultimately Von Karma's undoing. He even risks (and loses) his badge to get Phoenix the evidence that ultimately puts away Damon Gant. Gumshoe is an extremely valuable asset, without whom Phoenix would not have been able to win a ''lot'' of his cases, and yet everyone in the game, Phoenix included, treats Gumshoe as a worthless joke who can't do anything right. What the hell? |
| 208 | *** Valuable != competent or a joy to work with. If Phoenix was really hard up for clues and Gumshoe's on the scene, Fuck Yeah! I know that guy! Let's go pester him until he spills confidential info! But, just showing up in his day-to-day life, maybe he's not the most enjoyable or useful person on Earth. Just like how Phoenix still thinks of Larry as a friend through the end of game 3, but we all totally get why he's not a welcome surprise when we see him at the temple. |
| 209 | * When Larry arrives in 3-2, Phoenix says he has known Larry for 25. Is this a typo? Or was it meant to be interpreted as, "I've known him my whole life?" It's just strange, as Phoenix had never mentioned knowing Larry before the Classroom Trial. (Then again, I guess maybe they knew each other through their parents or something, but saying they had known each other since they were infants would be strange.) |
| 210 | ** It was probably just supposed to mean "We've known each other for a really long time." Also, while it's unlikely they met each other as infants, they ''did'' go to the same school, so it's possible that they saw each other around school a lot before actually becoming friends. |
| 211 | * Who exactly is looking after Pearl? Her mother is in jail, her sister is dead and the other is either also serving time or on a mountain, Bikini is also on said mountain, Mia and Misty are both dead, and her father (assuming she and the twins share the same one) left years ago. That leaves Maya who it seems can barely look after herself at the best of times. And if she does have a different father or other unseen caretaker why do they seemingly let her wander off by herself all the time or not even turn up in Bridge to the Turnabout when she briefly went missing? |
| 212 | ** It's heavily implied that she's just living by herself, while under the watch of everyone else at Kurain. She is an acolyte after all, and she's a major part Kurain, and fairly sure the other mediums there would be looking after her. It's also implied that Phoenix and Maya often look after her as well whenever they're actually able to. Remember that in Turnabout Big Top, they took Pearl to the circus, because she didn't have her parents anymore. |
| 213 | ** Pearl ''doesn't'' have the same father as the twins (Mr. Hawthorne left before she was born), but her father probably left too, considering the Fey Clan's history of unsuccessful marriages and Morgan's overly-controlling nature. |
| 214 | * One of your assistants' recurring pieces of advice throughout the trilogy is that a lawyer is someone who can keep smiling no matter what. However, they also frequently point out that the prosecutor hasn't lost their smile as evidence that your argument was flawed. Isn't this a double standard? |
| 215 | ** Not really, since the prosecutors don't live by that creed. Considering that Lana(someone who doesn't smile until the end of Rise From the Ashes), specifically says she finds the idea of "believing" in one's client ridiculous, it's only natural that prosecutors like her would feel similarly about the other belies defense attorneys live by. |
| 216 | [[/folder]] |
| 217 | |
| 218 | [[folder: ''Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney'']] |
| 219 | [[AC:Case 1-1]] |
| 220 | |
| 221 | * The whole thing with the first case is illogical. All they had against Larry was a motive and an eyewitness. For all anyone knew, the witness could have seen Larry leave the apartment, gone in to rob it, and killed Cindy when she came back (and as it turns out, that is exactly what happened). The judge was also going to let Frank Sawhit go even though he had made several inconsistancies in his testimonies. The judge was going to let him go without forcing him to explain the time inconsistency, or how he knew it was a clock that killed Cindy. While there was no direct proof that the clock was off on the day of the murder, it is still a pretty big coincidence that it was three hours off in court, the exact gap in the time inconsistancy. They may not have been able to convict Frank Sawhit, but there was still plenty of room for reasonable doubt in the case. The courts are supposed to prove who commited the crime with no room for error or reasonable doubt. All they had against Larry was a motive and an eyewitness. While there was no concrete proof Sawhit was framing Larry, there was still a possibility. How could the judge have just let Sawhit go with no questions asked, and given Larry a guilty verdict just like that? |
| 222 | ** You're right. It is unfair, and [[IntendedAudienceReaction that's the point of the whole series.]] We know the Ace Attorney courts don't follow presumption of innocence, so it's possible that reasonable doubt isn't followed, either. Either of those would have had the case thrown out because without actual evidence that Larry swung the statue (and there isn't any [[ForegoneConclusion because he didn't do it]]), the prosecution's case is based purely on he-said-she-said. |
| 223 | * Why did Frank Sawhit choose to frame Larry in the first place? Sawhit had no connection to or motive to kill the victim in the first place, and there was no evidence linking him to the crime scene to necessitate framing someone else. It’s understandable he’d be shaken since he was just a small-time thief who didn’t plan to commit murder, but couldn’t he have just left the apartment and let the police come to their own conclusions? |
| 224 | [[AC:Case 1-2]] |
| 225 | |
| 226 | * Didn't Edgeworth lose his perfect record the moment Maya was released? If Phoenix was made the new prime suspect based off White's accusation, and Maya was subsequently released, then she must have been found not guilty. So why is he still on White's side after forcing him to break his philosophy? Or does he consider simply dropping charges against someone not against his code, and it only counts if someone actually gets declared not guilty inside court? |
| 227 | ** It's likely the fact that the charges were simply dropped. Edgeworth can't do anything about the witness completely changing culprits on him, so he doesn't hold it against himself, whereas if Maya had gone through the entire trial system and ended up Not Guilty he would have considered that on his head as the prosecutor. |
| 228 | * Why didn't Phoenix ever make the argument that Ms. May only reported the murder roughly ten minutes after it happened? |
| 229 | ** It would be Phoenix's word against May's if she claimed that she did call as soon as the murder occurred. She also could have claimed that she was in shock from seeing a killing occur and only snapped out of it later. He doesn't pursue it because it wouldn't get him anywhere. |
| 230 | * Mr. White says he entered the office a week before the murder, at the beginning of September, however the murder took place on September 5th, meaning there is a maximum of 4 days he could have entered, someone who speaks with SesquipedalianLoquaciousness would not use "week" to refer to a period of time that is at most 4 days! |
| 231 | ** He meant ''during'' the week before the murder. |
| 232 | * Why was Redd White so concerned with Mia revealing the names of those he blackmailed during the second day of trial? Wasn't he going to jail anyway by confessing? |
| 233 | ** This is probably because Mia was going to release it to the press. This basically put Redd White in a corner – either he confessed and went to jail, or he didn't and he went to jail anyway because that list of names would have destroyed his reputation even more then the arrest for the current case would. In other words, he chose to get his life ruined over one death rather then the hundreds of deaths that would have been released. |
| 234 | * Does anyone mention what kind of motive Maya might have for murdering Mia? |
| 235 | ** Hardly any cases in the game discuss motive, actually. Will Powers had no real reason to supposedly murder Jack Hammer. Then in the second game, Maggie had no motive for killing her boyfriend, Maya had no motive for killing Dr. Grey, and so on. The court system in Ace Attorney doesn't really seem to care whether or not the defendant has a motive or not, as long as the defendant gets declared guilty. |
| 236 | *** Interestingly enough, regarding Will Powers, Phoenix points out that while Wendy Oldbag has no clear motive to kill Jack Hammer, neither does Powers. |
| 237 | ** TruthInTelevision, most investigators tend to not really care about motive (it only benefits the prosecutor) nor is motive necessary for a conviction. |
| 238 | ** In fairness, an exact motive isn’t necessary so long as a connection can be proven between the victim and the defendant. In 4-3, Apollo argues that Machi Tobaye had no reason to kill Mr. LeTouse, but the witness being questioned points out that the two travelled together extensively while Lamiroir was on tour, and therefore anything could’ve happened between them during that time that would serve as sufficient motive. |
| 239 | * Who is the "Chief Prosecutor" supposed to be? He's obviously not Lana, because not only does he have male voice beeps, but he and Lana have different job titles in the Japanese version. But on the other hand, it doesn't seem like Blaise Debeste from AAI2 would get himself blackmailed, so is this another person? |
| 240 | * When Phoenix first felt Mia's body, he notes that it was warm at first before eventually turning cold. At that point, he should have known that people are only truly dead once their bodies turn cold. However, he completely believed the initial autopsy report he was given which said Mia died immediately, and didn't think otherwise until Edgeworth presented the "updated autopsy report" which correctly said Mia lived for a few moments afterward. Why is that? |
| 241 | ** The body being warm when Phoenix got there doesn’t mean Mia was still alive. The updated autopsy report only said she ''may have'' lived for a few minutes after being struck, not that she definitely did. That had no relation to the body’s temperature when it was discovered. |
| 242 | ** Bodies do not magically turn cold the instant someone dies. They cool gradually after metabolic processes cease, which can take some time after death. If Mia's body was still warm to the touch with no signs of life, that just means they found her body within an hour or so of her death. |
| 243 | |
| 244 | [[AC:Case 1-3]] |
| 245 | |
| 246 | * Why does Dee give up so easily when Gumshoe shows up? She has 4 people with guns vs 1 detective. Why not erase Gumshoe too? |
| 247 | ** Even though it's Gumshoe, remember he is on the police force and was recently asked by Edgeworth (or the Chief) to have Dee be brought in for questioning. If Dee has her men "erase" Gumshoe on the spot, then the police will quickly catch on and go after Dee (since as Gumshoe was personally sent to go and get her, Dee would be the last person to see him and thus a top priority for the police to go after). Pretty much for Dee was either to go with Gumshoe quietly or erase everyone and make it certain she'll be arrested for that. |
| 248 | ** It's also possible that Gumshoe had called for backup or already had backup waiting outside the trailer. |
| 249 | * Speaking of erasing, this is an issue that pops up with Jean Armstrong in the second game as well. Gumshoe, a member of law enforecement, comes in to save the day when Phoenix and Maya are in trouble. He comes into a scene where people are being ordered to be killed or beat up, and the only consequence that seems to come of it is having to testify in court? |
| 250 | ** Maybe serving as a witness in Powers's trial was given priority of any investigation into what Vasquez had been up to? Phoenix did need her to testify to get his client declared innocent; having her arrested and tried for a separate matter wouldn't have helped the case he was involved with right then. It's likely she did face some repercussions for threatening him and Maya, but as that Phoenix doesn't have a professional relationship with that case, it isn't brought up. |
| 251 | * Why were Hammer and Powers doing their rehearsals with ''real lethal implements''? You'd think Hammer and Vasquez of all people would've been wary of doing such a thing, considering that Jack had already killed someone during filming. |
| 252 | ** Just because a prop is not a real lethal spear it doesn't mean it's not sharp. The spear was probably made of metal yet had a blunt end so it wasn't OVERLY lethal. However even a blunt weapon can kill someone in a strong hand. |
| 253 | *** Maybe Hammer took the (likely hollow) prop with him because it would have Will Powers' fingerprints on it, giving further evidence to frame him, not to use as an actual weapon. |
| 254 | * The main argument that Dee Vasquez couldn't have been at the site of the murder was that the path from Studio 2 to Studio 1 was blocked by a fallen tree. Why couldn't anyone have just gone to one side of the tree, if not further off into the forest, to get around it? |
| 255 | *** It looks like there's a bunch of brush on either side of the path. Who'd want to walk through that? Only Cody Hackins seems to be able to navigate it. |
| 256 | *** "Impassible" might mean different things to different people. Dee seems like the type of person who'd avoid even the main path if it means getting some dirt on her shoes, so when she says she couldn't get out of the lot it could mean, contextually, she personally felt there was no way she could leave. |
| 257 | * There was conclusive evidence Will Powers didn't do it since day 1. The spear was broken and could not have been used to kill and the camera only took one photo (excluding Cody's) which proves Will Powers and Jack Hammer couldn't have been in studio 1 at the same time. Why did Phoenix wait for day 3 to point this out? |
| 258 | ** Regarding the spear, there are two things to consider. One is that only the shaft was said to be broken, which doesn't completely mitigate its use as a weapon. And even if the spear ''couldn't'' have been the murder weapon, that does nothing to exonerate Will as the murderer. He could've just used something else to do the deed. As for Hammer getting to the studio unseen, the assumption was that he went there before Oldbag arrived and the camera started recording at 1:00. The only other explanation would be that he was the one wearing the Steel Samurai costume, which they had no reason to consider. |
| 259 | |
| 260 | [[AC:Case 1-4]] |
| 261 | |
| 262 | * Von Karma, who is supposed to be a super perfectionist and went so far as to not have a bullet removed from his shoulder to avoid leaving a record of a crime he committed, sends Yogi a HAND WRITTTEN note? What possible reason could he have to do that? |
| 263 | ** Typing the letter on a computer would run the risk of leaving evidence of the document on the computer. And he instructed Yanni Yogi to burn the letter after he read it; Yogi just failed to follow that instruction. |
| 264 | *** Also his handwriting is implied to be so neat and precise it probably ''looks'' typed. |
| 265 | * How good is Yogi's swimming ability? He jumped off the boat to make it seem like he died from firing the gun, but Edgeworth doesn't hear him resurface, even though Edgeworth headed in the same direction as Yogi after getting over his shock. |
| 266 | ** That's an easy one; after hearing a gunshot at such close range, Edgeworth's hearing would be temporarily impaired to a point where he might not hear some splashing water in a lake. |
| 267 | ** The key point is that Edgeworth was in shock. He admits that he was stuck in a daze for some time after the shots rang out, and that was before he even picked up the gun. |
| 268 | * While Phoenix is correct that the Dl-6 evidence he has would match up with the bullet in Von Karma's shoulder, that would still mean taking the bullet OUT, and that's not happening without surgery. Can you actually FORCE someone to undergo surgery if you believe they have case evidence inside their bodies? |
| 269 | ** Generally speaking, the answer seems to be "no". However, as von Karma had no legitimate grounds on which to refuse otherwise, declining to have the bullet removed would've probably established sufficient doubt to remove Edgeworth as a suspect in the case. |
| 270 | ** Although, just because it's been ruled unconscionable to forcibly conduct surgery to acquire evidence in the real world, doesn't mean the same is true for the legal system of these games. Whether they're looked at through an American lens or not, they take so many liberties with the process that they clearly run according to a system of their own. |
| 271 | * Once Miles is on trial for the DL-6 incident, what is the big deal? Miles was accused of, when a 9 year old child, throwing a gun in the direction of a man attacking his father and that gun accidentally killing his father. Miles would serve no time for that; it was a tragic accident. It seems that the circumstances of Miles' age and the situation he was in would keep it from rising even to involuntary manslaughter. |
| 272 | ** Yeah, Miles Edgeworth probably wouldn't be sent to jail, but the fact of the matter is that knowing that he was the one who killed his father, even if it was just an accident, would completely ruin his life, possibly to the point of suicide. Think about how badly Athena Cykes freaked out in ''Dual Destinies'' when she believed that she had killed her own parent. THAT is what the revenge was about, not jail time. |
| 273 | *** Seconding the above. His sanity was already hanging on the thread that his nightmares were just dreams. If he'd been shown proof that he really did fire the bullet that killed his father, it would destroy him. He'd either go insane or plunge right over the DespairEventHorizon; even if he recovered from those (not likely given how reluctant he is to open up to people and accept help), he'd never set foot in a courthouse again. And can you imagine how terrifying/heartbreaking ''Miles Edgeworth'''s [[FreakOut breakdown]] would have been? |
| 274 | * Why was Misty Fey disgraced by the events of DL-6? She said Yanni Yogi did it, and the investigation and trial showed that he did (although he didn't), but he ended up getting off on an insanity plea. This should mean that to the general public, Misty Fey was right. |
| 275 | ** The idea behind the insanity wasn't "Yes, he did it, but he was insane, so it doesn't count against him," but rather "We can't prove he did it because he was insane at the time." |
| 276 | * Why did the police need to resort to using a medium in the first place? The facts of the DL-6 incident seemed pretty clear. |
| 277 | *** The case was probably hard to crack because there was a period of time where the scene was left "undiscovered". Remember, von Karma was shot, meaning that the elevator had arrived at its floor and was open. Since von Karma obviously did not alert the authorities (to distance himself from the crime), it means that as far as the police knew, anyone could have greeted Edgeworth Sr. with a gun between the time of the elevator opening its doors and the police discovering it. There was no proof that the murder occurred INSIDE the elevator after all. |
| 278 | *** It was told that when Misty summoned Gregory Edgeworth, his ghost told everyone that Yanni Yogi killed him, but we later find out that the ghost lied because he ''thought'' that Miles Edgeworth, his own son, killed him because that was the last person he saw when the gun went off. Gregory had no idea that Manfred Von Karma killed him, since he was unconscious when Manfred entered the elevator and pulled the trigger. |
| 279 | *** There would likely have been at least two sets of prints on the gun, too – Yanni's and Miles's. Von Karma wore gloves, but didn't wipe it. |
| 280 | * Gregory testifies through Misty that Yanni Yogi shot him. But since the elevator was dark, there's no way he could have seen that! |
| 281 | ** I believe lighting isn't relevant; he just didn't know the other possibilities. Yogi went rather violent on him, probably slamming him against the elevator wall hard enough to make him faint (remember his dead pose? And that air was already rather scarce?). Then, Gregory could have believed he was killed immediately after with the gun by Yogi. He didn't testify to hearing a shot nor hearing von Karma's demonic yell. The reason he said "Yanni Yogi shot me" would be, then, that he fainted while struggling with the man. |
| 282 | ** Gregory was pinning down by process of elimination. There were three people: himself, his son Miles, and Yanni Yogi. He didn't shoot himself, so that either means that Yanni Yogi or his own son shot him, and Gregory immediately discarded Miles because he just couldn't fathom the possibility. Thus, it could only be Yanni from his point of view. Even a Divination Séance from ''Spirit of Justice'' would show a comparable reasoning. |
| 283 | * Since apparently the Kurain style of channeling involves body transformation... does that mean that when Misty channeled Gregory... she turned into a man? |
| 284 | ** Yes. In ''Spirit of Justice'', Maya channels two spirits who are male, and her body changes to reflect their appearances exactly. |
| 285 | * Why does making a defense that your actions were irrational behavior caused by oxygen deprivation require you to act insane when you are no longer deprived of oxygen? |
| 286 | ** Yogi's "senile old man" act in the present wasn't done in keeping with the verdict about him being insane. It was done to remain beneath the radar during the present events of the trial. |
| 287 | * So apparently manslaughter and murder are charged similarly in the world of Ace Attorney. Edgeworth was nearly convicted of his father's murder when he (at the time a terrified child) threw a gun in his father's vague direction. If this is the case why wasn't he tried for assault with a deadly weapon for the bullet hitting von Karma? That was an accident too. |
| 288 | ** As discussed above, we've no reason to think Edgeworth would be punished with any harshness for the accidental, indirect killing of his father during the DL-6 incident when he was a child. Phoenix wanted to prove him innocent for the sake of Edgeworth's own sanity. |
| 289 | ** The [[http://www.court-records.net/contradictions.htm Court Records website]] also asks about this. It's titled "[[HatedByAll No one likes Karma]]". The judge probably decided von Karma [[AssholeVictim deserved everything he got]]. |
| 290 | * Why is it that during DL-6's earthquake, no one thought to even try and shatter the non-bullet-proof glass? I understand not intentionally shooting it out, just in case it was bullet proof, but they just sat there and waited to die? |
| 291 | ** IIRC the elevator was caught between floors before the power came back on (otherwise they would have just been able to force the doors open), so breaking the glass before they all went batty from oxygen depletion wouldn't have done anything. |
| 292 | *** It would still need to be close enough to a floor in order for a bullet to pass through the glass and hit Manfred von Karma in the shoulder, not to mention von Karma mentions the elevator doors opened just after the power came on. Probably, the elevator was below the floor just enough that there wouldn't be enough of a gap were the doors forced open for anyone to be able to climb out (not above, as that would make it impossible for a bullet to pass through the glass and not immediately hit the wall; considering the glass in the photo, as the elevator rose this would become impossible long before it became impossible for someone to escape the elevator by prying the doors open). ...Actually, if you consider just where the bullet hole in the glass is, the elevator would need to be well below the outside floor level in order for a shot at that sharp of an angle to hit von Karma's shoulder. |
| 293 | *** The fight must've happened just before the power came back on, so the elevator was moving. So, it might have been stuck between two floors the entire time. Plus, the entire courtroom was pitch black, so the officials would rather be trying to get the whole place evacuated. |
| 294 | |
| 295 | * From the killer's perspective in 1-4, it makes perfect sense to want to kill Hammond and frame Miles since the killer has a grudge against Hammond and thinks that Miles once framed him. But from Manfred Von Karma's perspective, there was no grudge against Hammond, so why not just tell the killer to kill Miles directly? I guess getting revenge by convincing Miles that he killed his father was more "perfect?" |
| 296 | ** Revenge is exactly the reason why. It's stated in-game that Manfred hated Gregory for so much as scratching his reputation, and also that his hatred of Gregory was the reason why he raised Miles as a prosecutor. Him trying to ruin Edgeworth's life is really pretty similar to Dahlia wanting to kill Maya as revenge against Mia in 3-5 if you [[FridgeHorror think about it long enough]], he most definitely wanted to make Miles suffer for what Gregory did, and just having Edgey killed instead wouldn't have satisfied him. |
| 297 | *** Which explains why von Karma doesn't give a damn when Phoenix proves Edgeworth didn't kill Hammond. His entire plan was that the trial would guilt-trip Edgeworth and basically humiliate and break him. |
| 298 | * How did von Karma know that ''Miles'' was the one who was responsible for him getting shot? Yes, his fingerprints would have been on the thing, but so would Yanni Yogi's. The gun would have also been lying closet to Yogi, if anywhere, because Miles threw it in that direction. And it's not like Edgeworth could have testified about the incident when the first trial was held, because he didn't remember it until later, and kept it a secret. |
| 299 | ** Well, he ''was'' right there when Edgeworth threw the gun. It's possible that he was able to hear them arguing (even if just barely) and was therefore able to figure out Edgeworth threw it. |
| 300 | ** "Why do you look so tired all the time, Miles?" "Well, I keep having these nightmares where I'm in the elevator and I throw a gun and I hear it go off, and then I hear a man scream..." "... They're just nightmares. Don't let them bother you." |
| 301 | * During Case 1-4, von Karma brushes off the shooter using his left hand even though the prints are from Edgeworth's right hand by saying that Edgeworth just wiped the prints off the gun. Did nobody think to point out that Edgeworth clearly didn't do that considering his prints are still there? |
| 302 | ** They said that he shot Hammond, wiped his prints off, then picked it up with his other hand. |
| 303 | * How did the police not hear Phoenix and Maya being knocked out by the stun gun inside their own department? |
| 304 | ** The department was noted to have been nearly deserted at that time, since most of its personnel were out looking for the boat shop caretaker. |
| 305 | * The reason Edgeworth was in the Gourd Lake was because Hammond invited him, but it's never revealed what he did want to talk about. What could it be? |
| 306 | ** Hammond didn't write the letter; Yogi did. He confesses to it when admitting that he was responsible for Hammond's murder. |
| 307 | * So Karma mentions having a seven-year old granddaughter at one point. Fransiska is about fifteen at the time of this trial. Discuss. |
| 308 | ** Older sister who was never mentioned? |
| 309 | ** He might have just been making it up to make a point. |
| 310 | * The letter von Karma sent to Yogi clearly stated that it would be the 'last chance' for him to take revenge. Why? The plan Yanni Yogi was going with was to frame Edgeworth for a /new/ murder, which could be done at any time and wasn't tied to the 15 year limit. The 15 year limit was on DL-6, which was't even supposed to come up at all if everything had gone to plan. So, why? |
| 311 | ** The most likely answer is the fact that the first part of the plan, after taking out Hammond, is to write a letter to Edgeworth promising additional details about DL-6. It would be difficult to get Edgeworth there any other way, since he wouldn't be likely to respond to new evidence on a trial that has already passed statue of limitations. |
| 312 | * Why did Yogi and von Karma not consider the possibility of Edgeworth fighting back when it came to framing him for Hammond's murder? |
| 313 | ** Manffred von Karma knew Edgeworth well enough to psychologically manipulate him into confessing the guilt of his own father's murder. Not to mention that Edgeworth though it was Hammond (the defense attorney from the DL-6 case which has clearly haunted Edgeworth for years to the point of traumatizing him) on the boat with him. His mind would have been reeling and von Karma knew he would've frozen up in a daze like he did. Besides, let's say Edgeworth did, against his character, fight back. What witnesses would have seen is someone pull a gun on someone else, some sort of struggle, and then one of the people on the boat falling into the water. It was foggy and visibility was really low. Even if Edgeworth had fought back, the results would have been the same. As for knocking the gun out of Yogi's hands or jumping into the lake, there's virtually no way Edgeworth would risk knocking a gun out of someone's hands. Keep in mind that he was suffering from a reoccurring nightmare in which him throwing a gun caused it to accidentally go off and hit who he believed to be his father. As for why he didn't jump into the lake, if he thought he was going to get shot, jumping into the lake wouldn't have done much to prevent that and it was also in the middle of the night in December. The water was probably very, very cold. Not cold enough to be fatal, since we know that's how Yanni Yogi got off the boat, but definitely cold enough to give a person pause. |
| 314 | |
| 315 | [[AC:Case 1-5]] |
| 316 | |
| 317 | * Is there no such thing as a guilty plea in the AA universe? When you talk to Lana at the start of day 1 she clearly says that the suspect, her, has already admitted guilt to the crime. Despite that, the case still actually goes to trial. At the start of day 3 Lana tries to end the trial by pleading guilty to all crimes against her, but Edgeworth still keeps the trial going by saying they haven't conclusively proved her guilt yet. It IS a ploy to buy time, but the judge accepts his statement. |
| 318 | ** There is, but it hadn't been formally submitted yet. In 2-2, Phoenix doesn't offer the defense's plea until the trail begins. Presumably, Lana planned to plea guilty but then agreed to let Phoenix represent her- and as her lawyer, he pled not guilty. |
| 319 | ** Though the above is a VoodooShark, because an attorney cannot legally enter a plea contrary to the client's desires and she continues to insist on her guilt throughout the trial. Chalk it up to the judge's cluelessness, perhaps? |
| 320 | ** While Lana's initial confession muddies the waters just a hint, it seems that by hiring Phoenix as her attorney, she effectively was pleading not guilty. Either that or the trial commences regardless of her plea. If the former is true and she ''did'' plead not guilty originally, she wouldn't be able to end the trial later by changing her plea while court was still in session. It's within the judge's rights to accept or deny that motion; Edgeworth and the judge were acting within their power when they chose to continue investigating the matter. Lana trying to plead guilty didn't matter because it was obvious she was still hiding something. |
| 321 | *** In the last case of the second game, at the very end of trial, the judge asks Phoenix how the defense would like to plead. You're given the option to go against your client's initial wishes and choose "Guilty"; however, doing so only causes Phoenix to strongly suggest a guilty plea, considering the circumstances. Likewise, you can plead "Not guilty" and still have it overridden, showing that it is up to the client in the end.* One part that this Troper spent a while on was one part in case 1-5, when Ema Skye is trying to describe what she saw the night Neil Marshall was murdered. The biggest reason is because the game throws a huge RedHerring in the way, as she claims to have witnessed Marshall getting stabbed in the chest, whereas the autopsy report clearly states he was stabbed in the back. Most of the time was spent figuring out how to object to it, including pressing every statement many, many times. |
| 322 | ** I had the same problem. This is most likely just a full-on mistake. |
| 323 | ** It could be that she meant "stabbed ''through'' the chest", from behind. The picture shown during this testimony certainly looks more like the knife is aimed for the back. Maybe she was aware of the blood on the front of Marshall's shirt (that came out of his mouth when his lungs were punctured), and that made her think (at the time) the knife had gone through his whole body. |
| 324 | * Case 1-5. One – I don't get why Gant killed Goodman – I mean, he's the chief, right? Couldn't he just have refused to re-open the case? He has a fair amount of control, and all Goodman wanted to do was re-open the case. There was no new evidence so it was pretty safe. Also, why would he screw up something he's been planning for so long when it wasn't really in danger? He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to suddenly flip out and kill someone like that. Two – You get the picture Ema draws of Neil Marshall and Joe Darke fighting and in it, the vase is flying through the air. We can assume that it smashed when it hit the ground. Gant came in after this, when the vase was smashed so how did he get Ema's name onto it? Did he put it back together, write her name and then smash it again? What was the point? I'm not complaining, I just want to know if anyone has any answers. |
| 325 | ** One: Well, Gant admitted that the murder was spur-of-the-moment and that he wasn't thinking clearly. Also, Goodman said right in front of him that he intended to hand the evidence off to Marshall, who was already suspicious of the whole deal. Fearful that his involvement would be exposed, Gant killed him with the switchblade and had Lana clean up his mess. Two: This is a little easier to explain. It's possible that the jar is sturdier than the characters give it credit for, and didn't break when it was knocked off its stand, or at least didn't fully shatter. He could've easily scrawled Ema's name on it and then completely broken the jar by either stomping on it or smashing it with a tool or a heavier object. Considering it ended up in nine ''large'' pieces even after Gant got to it, that unstable jar was probably made of a really sturdy material. |
| 326 | ** The "bad ending" of 1-5 (if you present the evidence early) irritates me because the contradictions still stand. Even if it proved Ema killed Neil Marshall (which it doesn't because of the lack of bloodstains), that would actually make Phoenix's case stronger. The handprint and jar are good proof that Gant was blackmailing Lana, and with all that in the open, she would have no reason to keep covering for Gant. The defendant's testimony against the police chief's might not ordinarily carry much weight, but since he had pretty much already been revealed as a blackmailing scumbag, it would give Lana points. Even if Phoenix lost his chance to prove that Gant killed Marshall, in the very least, the fight would continue, not just end all of a sudden. Gant would still have a motive for killing Goodman even if he didn't kill Marshall. |
| 327 | *** That's the point of it. If you do not present the evidence early, Damon Gant forces you to show it anyway, revealing that it was in his safe. Basically, he gives himself away with his AccidentalPublicConfession that he was hiding the strip of leather and the jar fragment in his safe. |
| 328 | ** I second the original question. During the original events of SL-9, Gant found a situation with three unconscious people that he couldn't possibly have orchestrated. He decided to use this opportunity to murder one of them, frame Ema for it, let Lana 'discover' the crime, and then help Lana frame Darke for it to get him convicted. This ensured his promotion to Chief of Police, Lana's move to Chief Prosecutor, and let him control the Prosecution division. That's some pretty impressive Chessmastery right there, especially with all the shenanigans he had to pull with the evidence to do all that. Then he spectacularly bungles everything with the murder of Goodman. He kills Goodman in a panic on the day the case was going to be buried for good and then hands off the body for Lana to clean up. Okay, maybe she was the only person he had enough leverage over to be able to order her to cover up his crime, but that still risks his control over the department. From the way Lana acted, it's pretty clear she was trying to be caught, maybe not so much to cover for Gant as so he wouldn't be able to puppet her anymore. Also, ''how did anyone know there was a murder in the evidence room''? By the time Meekins and Marshall-impersonating-Goodman show up, he'd already cleaned up the body and the blood! And Meekins was accosted by someone he thought was Goodman, but he was the one who was knocked out, and there was no corpse. So, Meekins turned himself in as a murderer, someone took his claim at face value, and Gant allowed this to be reported? Or Gant reported the murder himself? None of this makes sense! By letting the court know there was a murder in the evidence room at all, he hands Phoenix the means to tie the current case to SL-9 and reopen all the events in SL-9, which was what Gant was trying to avoid in the first place! |
| 329 | *** Well, that's exactly the thing: Gant panicked. He ''wasn't'' thinking clearly. Of course with the way the trial went, blaming Lana led to him being found out, but that was the first / simplest solution that came to his mind. As for your second question, it doesn't really make sense for ''Meekins'' to assume their was a murder, yes. But perhaps when he heard the report, Gant thought he could use it for a little extra misdirection? With the extra confusion it caused, he probably hoped it would take longer for anyone to figure out that it was really him behind everything. |
| 330 | *** The way Gant seethes at how Jake Marshall (and the other detectives, to a lesser extent) hounded him for the past three years could explain why he lost his cool and bungled Goodman's murder despite being so on top of things in the Darke case. He acted impulsively because of the years of pressure, and regretted it immediately (for practical reasons, if nothing else) so he wasn't thinking as rationally as he could have been. By contrast, Neil's murder was (hastily) premeditated, he was not under that same pressure, and he had at least a small amount of time to set things up to his liking. |
| 331 | * Case 1-5: When Gant tries to put in a word in his own defense, Edgeworth reminds him that he's already forfeited his right to testify. Then, after Phoenix refuses to present the scrap of cloth, he testifies anyway – and implicates himself through his own testimony. But it isn't legitimate testimony! Even if it acquits Lana, it couldn't be used against Gant himself. |
| 332 | ** Gant was too shaken to call Phoenix out on that little loophole. He was barely coherent enough to try to get the evidence invalidated. |
| 333 | ** I believe he lost his right to testify as a police chief, but not as a suspect in the murder. |
| 334 | *** This is the best explanation. As police chief, he can testify at will, but refusing even once forfeits his right to interrupt proceedings for the rest of the trial. However, there's nothing that says a prosecutor ''can't'' call him to the stand against his will, especially as a suspect. Also, by this point, Edgeworth was getting pretty tired of Gant's crap and was certainly more than willing to overlook such a formality just so the guy could more effectively hang himself. |
| 335 | ** What does it being legitimate testimony have to do with whether it can be used to convict Gant at a separate trial? If you go into a courtroom and start shouting things that implicate you as the real culprit, you can’t use the fact that you weren’t supposed to be there as a defense later. |
| 336 | * In case 1-5, how do Lana Skye and Jake Marshall switch seats in the witness stand so quickly? There's hardly time for Phoenix to speak and they've swapped places in that chair, just to say one line... |
| 337 | ** This troper could be wrong, but it's to his understanding that the witness and defendant stand are two separate things in the ''AA'' courtrooms and Capcom just never bothered to show them as such in the room graphic for some reason or another. |
| 338 | *** This troper seems to recall that you actually see a defendant stand below the judge's spot when you're investigating the courtroom in ''AAI''. |
| 339 | *** This happens again near the end of the first day of the trial in "Turnabout Academy," so it's possible that they use that setting for anyone besides the judge, prosecutor, defense attorney or cocounsel who wants to speak without having to make up an entirely new part of the background. In the manga, you can see the defendant seat near the defense's side of the court, and in the cinematic with the "proof of friendship" in Turnbout Academy, you can see Robin and Juniper approaching the stand while Hugh is testifying. |
| 340 | * When we first meet Ema in 1-5, she mentions that her parents died in a car accident. She later mentions when demonstrating the use of Luminol for the first time that she "saved up [her] allowance to buy it". Presumably, she has adoptive parents who are paying this allowance - who are they? |
| 341 | ** Maybe she meant allowance from Lana? Lana has undergone PromotionToParent, after all. |
| 342 | *** '''''[[red:HOLD IT!]]''''' Ema says the aforementioned accident happened while she was quite young. Are you claiming that Lana would have been mature enough at the time to take care of Ema? |
| 343 | *** '''''[[red:OBJECTION!]]''''' ::slams desk:: You get to see Lana's profile in game 1 case 5. While Ema was 16 at the time, Lana was 29. That's a difference of 13 years. That makes it very likely for Lana to be plenty mature enough at the time to take care of Ema. |
| 344 | *** I... er... uh... ::[[SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic Pursuit ~ Cornered]] [[ThemeMusicPowerUp starts up]]:: [[BigNo Nooooooo]][[VillainousBreakdown oooooooo]]!! But wait... '''''[[red:HOLD IT!]]''''' This still means that Lana could have been as young as 14 or 15 at the time the accident took place! ::slams desk:: Despite any perceived maturity, that's still not old enough to be independent for most legal purposes! ::pointing:: It also doesn't explain where any source of income would have been coming from at the time! |
| 345 | *** '''''[[red:HOLD IT!]]''''' We're never told how old "quite young" means! If Ema was say, five (still 'quite young') Lana would have been 18, and legally independent, meaning it ''could'' have been possible for her to take care of Ema! |
| 346 | *** '''''[[red:OBJECTION!]]''''' Why would Ema have needed to save up her allowance from years ago to buy blood testing fluid? Most likely it was a fairly recent allowance given to her by Lana. They also most likely got some inheritance or life insurance from their parents. |
| 347 | *** If counsel would examine the Court Record, they would see that presenting the Luminol to Ema has her confirm that it is Lana who gives her an allowance to buy it. |
| 348 | * Again from 1-5: When you first speak to Meekins in the detention center, he claims (at least twice at various points) that after the incident in the evidence room he woke up in the Detention Center. Yet this is patently false, seeing as we see him between those two times when he shows up at Edgeworth's office - and, in fact, in continued discussions with him, he later indicates that he woke up in the evidence room immediately after the incident. For that matter, he was only arrested two days following the incident (around the time that Gant first testifies) - given that he was the only other person on hand in the evidence room, why wasn't he immediately arrested? It seems like there are two inherently contradictory timelines here! |
| 349 | ** Meekins was probably just being dramatic when he says he woke up in the detention center. It wouldn't exactly be out of character for him to be exaggerating. And as for why he wasn't arrested immediately... Well, the police department was extremely confused/panicked due to the fact that the guy he supposedly killed was found in a completely different place at the same time. They probably thought it was utterly impossible and were reluctant to arrest anyone else until the whole ID Card thing came up. |
| 350 | * In case 1-5, one thing that always bugged me. Lana comes into the room, sees Marshall dead, and her sister and a known serial killer are on the floor unconscious. So, with a known killer in the room, why did she jump to the conclusion that Ema was responsible like she said. You'd think that if you gonna jump to a conclusion it would involve a suspected serial killer over your beloved sibling. |
| 351 | ** Damon Gant wrote "Ema" on the urn. It's not 100% clear whether he broke the urn before or after Lana came in. |
| 352 | *** That's wrong. It was clearly stated by Gant that he broke the urn '''before''' Lana arrived at the scene, and hid a piece of the urn, along with the piece of cloth, for ''insurance'', since these two evidences would help to later "prove" that he was not the one who killed Marshall (which almost did do the job). Why didn't he take these evidences '''after''' Lana saw it? Probably because he wasn't 100% certain that Lana would choose to forge evidence to save her sister, so it was wiser to take it '''before'''. Lana also said that had she known that the urn was clearly incriminating Ema, she would have ground it to dust instead of just wiping the blood. But as to the original question - I have no idea. |
| 353 | ** Lana did admit that the situation was the first time her life when she ever panicked. Since she wasn't in the best state of mind and only thought of acting fast (she didn't know when someone else would come in, after all), that could explain why she jumped to an illogical conclusion. |
| 354 | ** She has a flashlight, she has a functional pair of hands, she could easily put the urn back together [[http://i.imgur.com/Dnp6KbZ.png which would show her enough to assume what was written on the jar.]] |
| 355 | -->Phoenix: If you really thought Darke killed Prosecutor Marshall, you wouldn't have wiped away the blood. |
| 356 | * In case 1-5, I don't understand why Gant cut the piece of cloth '''before''' he impaled Marshall and left such a huge contradiction in his "evidence". Had he cut the piece of cloth '''after''', then there would have been no problem with his "evidence". |
| 357 | ** Maybe he thought that if any blood got on the cloth, it might make it trickier to get a clear fingerprint reading... And this may sound picky, but it's also not like he could have predicted exactly how much blood Marshall would cough up. |
| 358 | ** This is also a case for "hindsight is 20/20". It's easy for us to think that it was a stupid move when looking at what he did, but in the heat of the moment it would've taken a considerable amount of foresight over unforeseen circumstances on Gant's part to realize that Marshell might cough up a lot of blood, which might pour down his vest in such a way as to form a contradiction in the bloodless piece that he cut out. (yes, if you impale someone onto a sword and hang them from it you'd probably expect it to quite bloodly, but you wouldn't necessarily anticipate them coughing up a lot of blood from their mouth. Especially since Gant wouldn't have known that Marshall's lungs had been punctured) |
| 359 | * The early setup of 1-5 seems to imply that the killer wanted to frame Edgeworth (the body is found in his car and Lana stabs it with his knife) It bugs me that unlike most frame-ups, this one never seems to go anywhere. Could it be that Angel Starr, by getting Lana arrested, is a SpannerInTheWorks for Gant by forcing him to sacrifice his control of the prosecutor's office? |
| 360 | ** Unlike most frame-ups in the series, this one was interrupted halfway through, with the person performing the frame-up clearly identified and apprehended. When you get yourself arrested at the scene of the frame-up halfway through finishing, it doesn't tend to put much suspicion on the person you were trying to frame. |
| 361 | ** It's also possible that Edgeworth's car was used as another sort of Gant's "insurance". Edgeworth had been on trial for murder just a couple months earlier, and had nasty rumors surrounding him. Tying him to the killing, even without actually framing him, would only further discredit him, especially if he noticed and tried to bring attention to anything "odd" about the case. (Given that Gant twists things several times during the trial to make Edgeworth look incompetent and/or corrupt, it seems that he really wanted to bring him down.) |
| 362 | ** It's also possible that Lana herself had something to do with it; there's a mention further up this page that the reason Lana let herself be caught might have been so Gant couldn't use her to control the prosecutor's office anymore. Once she was spotted, she knew that she'd be implicated no matter what, so she made the executive decision to take the fall herself and leave Edgeworth out of it entirely in order to destroy Gant's influence and make it harder for him to exert that kind of control again once she was gone. Hence Gant's frequent attempts to discredit Edgeworth during the trial; his original plan had failed, and now he needed another way to get rid of a certain prosecutor who had suddenly decided that he cared more about justice than winning and could be very detrimental to his attempts to reestablish control. |
| 363 | * When trying to prove that it wasn't Neil who wrote Ema's name in blood, a much more obvious contradiction that really should have been bought up at some point is the question of how the hell he could write someone's name when ALREADY IMPALED ON A SWORD! |
| 364 | ** They might've assumed that he just didn't die immediately, and had just enough time left to grab the urn and write something. |
| 365 | *** '''OBJECTION!''' As the [[http://i.imgur.com/AJPRI.png evidence]] proves, he simply couldn't have reached the jar. His hands are too far away from the floor. Unless you're suggesting that he got off the sword, wrote and politely climbed back up to stab himself again. |
| 366 | *** Said "evidence" is a picture that only is introduced in the last five minutes of testimony, after everyone has acknowledged the possibility that Ema was framed for Neil's death. Without the picture, everyone could've assumed that Marshall fell to the floor after being impaled, at which point he could've grabbed the urn and scrawled Ema's name down, and that's where his body was found when Lana got to the scene. And as for how Lana didn't realize the truth... Clearly, she wasn't thinking that rationally to begin with, since she never questioned how the urn could've been broken with Ema's name already written on it in the first place. |
| 367 | * Was it ever established whether Damon Gant had a motive for killing Neil Marshall other than to create blackmail fodder? |
| 368 | ** Maybe he genuinely wanted to see Joe Darke convicted? He's a very weird character. |
| 369 | *** This is exactly it. Damon Gant wanted a guaranteed conviction- and a dead body right next to a serial killer, confirmed as such by two of the best detectives ever, would be inescapable for anyone. |
| 370 | * Were they going anywhere with Phoenix wondering about the similarities between the Skye sisters and the Fey sisters? ("Two sisters. One of them a lawyer. Can this really be a coincidence?") They seem to be hinting at some sort of psychic connection or something, but it's never mentioned again. |
| 371 | ** It was probably just a way to make Phoenix want to take Lana's case. He didn't want to take any cases without Maya, but he felt compelled to help Ema and Lana because they reminded him of people he was very close to. |
| 372 | * Something that bothered me since it was brought up is that when we first see Lana, she is wearing her red muffler. Phoenix even flashes back to this. Then we find out that Lana's muffler is inside the muffler of Edgeworth's car! Since Lana has been in the detention center all this time, and no one even knows about the location of the muffler until the middle of the first court case, where the heck did Lana get that muffler from when she and Phoenix met?!? |
| 373 | ** Lana OBVIOUSLY keeps spare mufflers on her person in case something happens to one, since she is the queen of mufflers. But in all seriousness, if she's never seen without one it's not unlikely that she carries several. |
| 374 | * Joe Darke's conviction... doesn't the case carry the implication that Darke may well have been innocent? They claim he was a serial killer, but there was never any evidence (considering the killings were supposed to be spur of the moment, it seems a little odd there wasn't any evidence, it's not like it was planned meticulously to avoid such, but I digress) except for Neil Marshall's death... in which the evidence was forged; Phoenix proves in court that it was actually Marshall who was attacking Darke when Ema intervened. It seems like a MiscarriageOfJustice, but nothing ever comes of it, although the unfortunate fact that he's already been executed kinda precludes anything I suppose. |
| 375 | ** Joe Darke confessed though, didn't he? He wasn't just "brought in for questioning", as the final trial implies. I remember Gumshoe stating that Joe Darke turned himself in, and was questioned during this time. But he panicked during the questioning, probably due to suddenly realizing that him confessing was basically suicide or something similiar, and then fled, before the entire confrontation with Marshall happened. Maybe his confession contained details only the killer would know about? It's also possible that, after they "proved" Darke killed Marshall, they used this to go back and prove his connection to the other cases. For example, they might have matched his switch blade knife to the other victim's wounds, now that they had it and knew it was his. Even if the match between Marshall's wound and his knife was forged, it'd reach ridiculous levels to suggest that they also forged the matching wounds on all the other victims too. |
| 376 | ** But the reason Damon Gant murdered Marshall (besides blackmail) was to incriminate Joe Darke with (falsified) decisive evidence that he committed murder, as he feared the legal system would fail its duty and let a (in his eyes) serial killer walk free. And as far as it's known, he was ''only'' convicted of that murder since there was a witness and a murder weapon to link it back to Darke. The rest of the murders being caused by Darke is conjecture, and it seems like there was no hard evidence linking him to the victims. What we do know is that Joe Darke turned himself in on the murders, but that's it. That's hardly proof that he did them, since false confessions do occur; what's needed is evidence to corroborate his story, which there wasn't. |
| 377 | *** This isn't completely true. Not only is Darke consistently referred to as a serial killer, but there are six victims listed in the SL-9 case files, with no notes that any of their murders were unproven. It's also mentioned that his conviction for the death of Neil Marshall was questionable precisely because his switchblade knife didn't match up perfectly with Neil's stab wound -- implying that they would have been able to match the knife to the wounds of the other victims. |
| 378 | *** There's no doubt the victims existed, otherwise they wouldn't be in the report. That being said, you'd think if it was as simple as matching the weapon to the bodies of the four stabbed victims, then there likely wouldn't have been any reason to frame Darke for the murder of Marshall beyond Gant purely being driven to boost his career. Instead, we're given the implication from other involved parties that they had no hard evidence to link Darke, despite the fact they had him under interview in the police department while he (somehow) was in possession of the alleged murder weapon that they never bothered confiscating and running tests on. And it's mentioned repeatedly that they only got their (fabricated) conviction ''solely'' through the final murder; indeed, if there was any relevant evidence in-post showing that Darke's switchblade was involved in the second to fifth killings, they certainly didn't show it in the SL-9 Incident files. |
| 379 | * Why does Lana refuse to admit she's being blackmailed by Gant even when she shouldn't? 1) Right before the start of the third day, Phoenix talks to Lana. ''Ema is not present'' at the time because she's being retained by the police after infiltrating Gant's office. Lana admits to Phoenix she didn't actually commit the murder, but asks Phoenix not to go any further... without giving him any reason. Lana should know by this point that Phoenix is just not going to stop. Why didn't she realise it would be more convincing to tell Phoenix that, if he kept going further, it would somehow (either by Phoenix showing it in the trial or Gant uncovering it) end up in Ema being framed for the murder of Marshall? 2) During the third day, Phoenix ends up "proving" that Marshall was killed by Ema. Yet, when Lana is asked to testify later, she's still covering Gant, even though Gant can no longer do anything to her than Phoenix hasn't already done (Ema has already been framed). |
| 380 | ** In the first instance, Lana didn't want Phoenix to keep going because she figured that Phoenix was not going to stop just because her sister was on the line (or, barring that, that Edgeworth would pursue this) given how he and Edgeworth are so concerned with the truth. And Lana didn't know that Ema had been framed, she thought Ema actually committed the murder. If she told Phoenix "Ema is going to be framed" he would just say "I'll clear her name too." In the second instance, I think that, although Phoenix proved Ema pushed Neil, it was mostly hinging on that piece of the vase and Gant could have used his powerful connections to say that Ema killing Neil was just conjecture. So it's no longer Gant threatening that he will "expose" Ema for murder, it's him telling Lana that he is the only one who can save Ema from being convicted. |
| 381 | * Why did Ema not know Angel Starr used to be a detective? She worked with Ema's sister, on a case that Ema was deeply involved in. You'd think she would have met Angel at least a few times during the case (it's especially jarring since she seems to remember Goodman and Marshall just fine). |
| 382 | * Why does everyone entertain the idea that a 15-year-old girl was able to push a grown man across the room in a single shove? |
| 383 | ** Because the notion that a terrified 15-year-old girl mustered up the innate strength to shove whom she thought was a crazy serial killer about to murder someone across a room is far from a ridiculous one. I'm fairly sure that a vast majority of 15-year-old girls would be able to do the same thing, assuming they had will-power and bravery try and do it in the first place. |
| 384 | * The evidence room introduced in this case requires a password to enter, and has fingerprint scanners to open the safes. This room contains evidence from closed cases. However, in the previous case, there was another evidence room for still open cases, and that one had virtually no security, with Phoenix and Maya able to enter just by asking, and in Manfred’s case, he was even able to just pick up evidence and take it home. Why in the world are open cases given less security? Surely closed cases are the ones that should be given less concern, since they’re already solved, while open cases should be protected more to ensure the evidence isn’t taken by the wrong party, as is the case with Manfred taking the DL-6 evidence and presumably destroying it to avoid chances of his own incrimination. |
| 385 | ** It probably has to do with open-cases being, well... open. If someone in the force needs to access a cold case before the statute runs out, it would stand to reason that having it locked behind a safe for individual clearance would be inconvenient and inefficient on time. It's also probable that the evidence room is normally under lock and key; Manfred just happens to have the clearance since he's a prosecutor. |
| 386 | * When Lana fires Phoenix as her attorney, why isn't he removed as defense counsel? He should not be involved in the case at all from that moment forward (and in any real courtroom there would be a recess to have new counsel assigned, but... [[MST3KMantra well]]), yet the judge allows him to continue cross-examining witnesses and arguing on Lana's behalf, against her explicit wishes. |
| 387 | ** Presumably, Lana rescinded her termination of Phoenix once her attempt at a guilty plea was declined. What's more, Lana provides Pheonix with a ton of extra evidence during the trial that doesn't meld with the idea that she doesn't want him to discover the truth. It's possible she really did want him to uncover Gant's role in the events, and thus her terminating Phoenix and guilty plea were just mockups to keep Gant from guessing her intentions. |
| 388 | ** It might not amount to much, but it's specified in the court record that Ema is Phoenix's client, not Lana. |
| 389 | * Why did Lana stab Goodman's body in the first place? She never gives an exact explanation for this. Even when she first opens up to Phoenix, all she says is that she hid the original murder weapon because she knew it would open up the old case if anyone found out. But that doesn't mean she needed to stab him with a different knife. And from what else we're told, all Gant told her was to get rid of the body, not to try staging his murder somewhere else. |
| 390 | ** To frame Edgeworth for the murder. They would have needed to find a murder weapon, and if the knife was Edgeworth's, that would have further implicated him. She couldn't have just put the knife in the trunk of his car, the lack of bloodstains on it would mean that it was wiped off, which wouldn't make sense if it was in the same place as the body it was supposedly just stuck in. |
| 391 | ** I'm going to be honest, I don't think they were planning on framing Edgeworth at all. I don't think that was in the plan. Edgeworth's involvement was merely supposed to be unwitting transport of the body. When Lana saw the knife Gant used to stab Goodman with, she pulled it out for the reason she gave Phoenix. There just happened to ''be'' one in Edgeworth's trunk, so she swapped it out either to plant a fake murder weapon if/when the body was found, or to basially act as a plug to stop blood pouring out, since Edgeworth's knife was larger than the switchblade knife. If she hadn't been caught by Angel, Goodman's body probably would have been moved to a different location nearby. Lana couldn't exactly afford blood to be dripping from the body, it would leave a trail. The knife was acting as a plug (regardless of if his heart was pumping or not), which is why Gant left it in himself. I believe the plan was to dump Goodman's body nearby the Prosecutor's Office, since it was far away from the Precinct. |
| 392 | [[/folder]] |
| 393 |
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/context.php
FollowingContext Headscratchers / PhoenixWrightAceAttorney
Go To
- Show Spoilers
- Night Vision
- Sticky Header
- Wide Load
