Line #4 Headscratchers/KingdomHeartsChainOfMemories


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2	* Lexaeus states that Vexen hates Marluxia. How can a Nobody hate?
3	** Maybe some feeling aren't contained in the heart - specially when it's a "boss"/coworker thing.
4	** He was arrogant before being turned into a Nobody. He carries over his personality, even though the emotions behind it are gone.
5	** Vexen might be using the term "hate" defined as "feeling extreme displeasure or disagreement towards." In which case, "hate" would not be an emotion, but the logical extension of personal preference of companions and environment.
6	*** This. How often do we use the word "hate" when we don't actually mean it?
7	** Xemnas lied. Nobodies can grow their own hearts and feelings, presumably this is what happened with Organization XIII. It was actually heavily implied throughout the games prior to DDD. See Axel's "Hey wait a minute, I'm actually enjoying this!" line
8	* So Marluxia strips Sora of every ability and item he had in the first game. However, he leaves him Kairi's good luck charm, so that they can use it through Naminé. However, that lucky charm also happens to be the Keychain for the Oathkeeper Keyblade, so why doesn't Sora equip it? It's worlds ahead of the Kingdom Key.
9	** Because he also took away Sora's equipment slots while he was at it. Castle Oblivion was weird, man. Sora had to use those cards to attack, so it wouldn't matter what he attached to his Keyblade.
10	*** There's also the question of what Keyblade he would get if he attached Naminé's good luck charm to his Keyblade.
11	*** As is the question of whether or not Sora even remembered (due to the effects of Naminé and CO) that attaching the charm to his Keyblade would result in a different form of the Keyblade. Of course, he might have still remembered early on (which would loop back into the original question), but the farther he progressed, the worse his memory of the events of the first game became.
12	** In-universe: Naminé tampered with it. Out-of-universe: DiscOneNuke.
13	* So does Geppetto know about Jiminy Cricket or not? The Monstro world in this game suggests he does, but I don't ever remember him even knowing his existence in the first Kingdom Hearts game or even the movie.
14	** I think it was a way to indicate to the players that ''something's'' not quite right with the Disney worlds starting with this one because Gepetto suddenly knows about Jiminy despite the movie or the other games never indicated he did. Plus, on the Fridge page, it's stated that it's believed that Naminé was sending coded messages to Sora he was being manipulated and I think that the Gepetto thing was part of that.
15	* Am I the only one who though that Marluxia acted kinda... ''suggestive'' towards Naminé? ...[[DontExplainTheJoke screw it.]] He was acting like a goddamn pedophile.
16	** [[MindGameShip You're not the only one.]]
17	* Is there any reason why Sora doesn't become mer-Sora in Atlantica in [=RE:CoM=], other than "the developers were lazy"?
18	** Because he's still in Castle Oblivion, rather than being under water. He's just in Castle Oblivion surrounded by the ''illusion'' of water. No transformation necessary, since he can breathe fine.
19	*** If that's the case, why did Castle Oblivion go to the trouble of changing his, Donald, and Goofy's forms for Halloween Town but not Atlantica?
20	*** Sora found the Halloween disguises more memorable, or subconsciously thought they were cool.
21	*** Atlantica is after Halloween Town. Sora's memory is swiss cheese by that point, he probably couldn't remember in the first place.
22	*** There's also the factor that Donald's magic is noted to change their shapes to better fit the world, both for survival measures and not to break the World Order. Since they're in a castle and revisiting their memories, there's no actual need to change appearances. As for why they still don the clothes of Halloween Town in [=Re:CoM=], Namine is noted that she can use her powers to change the appearance of things, like Sora's good luck charm from Kairi to be one from Namine, or for the good luck charm that Repliku has to actually be a Destiny Islands card that he's unaware of. Larxene herself notes she finds that facet of Namine's powers fascinating. As such, it's possible that Namine let Sora keep the Halloween Town costume if only because she knew he liked it and she could explain it as a gesture of goodwill, considering her desire to be wanted.
23	* If according to coded Xion can be rescued, or brought back from the dead, or saved from torment, or whatever, then can't Repliku be rescued as well?
24	** Repliku... theoretically he could but his entire life was trying to be Riku. What purpose would it be to bring him back if his only goal in his existence can never be accomplished.
25	*** The purpose of his existence? To learn that he should live life as his own person.
26	** Repliku and Xion are two completely different things. For Repliku, he was made by Vexen to fuck with Riku, then when he learned about Sora and Namine's control over him, he decided to use him to fuck with Sora instead, so he used Sora's own memories and threw them in so that it would be more than just an image, but a clone that though it was the real Riku. Then Namine smashed Vexen's handiwork after Sora's last fight with him, and then Riku killed him after Axel spurred Repliku on to kill him and Zexion. All this happened in the span of a week, if Sora's sealing happened the day Roxas went into his first coma. As for Xion, she was a cross between a Nobody, a Replica, and whatever the hell Roxas and Namine were, made to channel the powers of a Keyblade and act as something to double Roxas' workload and collect more hearts. Originally, it was supposed to be the base form seen in the final boss fight for ''Days'', only guised with the Organization's cloak so as not to reveal it as a puppet to anyone Xemnas didn't trust. When Xion started interacting with Roxas, Sora's influence took over her and made her take the form of Kairi's memory, creating what was basically a gender-swapped Roxas. It, which was now "she", began absorbing far too many memories through her experiences fighting Riku, and eventually, she learned what she was, went insane, and wished for suicide. When Roxas killed her, she fragmented in two ways. One part went back to Sora for memory reconstruction, the other went to Roxas in the form of Ven's heart. All this happened in the span of nearly a year. So as you can see, Repliku can't be reformed because he was a simple Replica, while Xion was memories confined in the ''form'' of a Replica.
27	** The short answer is "play ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII''."
28	* Why didn't Jiminy just write a summary of what happened at Castle Oblivion instead of the vague "Thank Naminé" message? They weren't pressed for time or anything, so I don't why they didn't just spend a few minutes filling out a journal page so they'd know what had happened.
29	** Maybe all that got wiped by the Bugs that came up in ''coded?'' It i weird after all that ''coded's'' gameplay only involved the worlds in the first game and Castle Oblivion briefly. All of Jiminy's journal writings were probably erased or corrupted by the Bugs.
30	** Jiminy did write summaries; [[GameplayAndStoryIntegration They're the current journal writings throughout the game]]. They were probably erased after Namine restored their previous memories and wiped out everything that happened in Castle Oblivion. The "Thank Namine" was a future reminder and not a part of the Castle Oblivion memories, which might explain why that message remained.
31	* This is really more of a "what the hell, fandom?" thing than about the game per se, but: why do so many people think Axel killing Vexen was "awesome"? Seriously? Killing someone by setting them on fire is "awesome"? In what universe? I mean, granted, I am sort of a fangirl of Vexen and of Ansem's Apprentices in general, but I'm not under any illusions that they were a bunch of blameless [[DracoInLeatherPants Dracos In Leather Pants]] who never did anything wrong, and I still can barely stand to watch it. But that is... sort of the point I'm trying to make here, I guess: just liking a character does not automatically mean everything they do is awesome, and it especially doesn't make their doing something blatantly cruel a Crowning Moment of Awesome just because they look good while doing it.
32	** Well, there's quite a bit of catharsis associated with it. Vexen was, after all, in charge of the Replica Program, we see him sell out the Riku Replica in ''Reverse/Rebirth'', and when you see the rest of the program's results in ''Days'', you can tell how much he deserved it.
33	** Plus, catharsis aside, even if killing Vexen was a rotten thing to do, Axel's ''method'' is what makes it awesome. It isn't the fact that he set Vexen on fire, it's that he set him on fire without touching him, just by snapping his fingers. ''That'' at the very least is awesome.
34	** Axel is a MagnificentBastard in this game, meaning that nothing he does is good, but it's so ''cool'' regardless.
35	*** Agreed. And besides, no one wants to miss an opportunity to compare Axel with [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist Roy Mustang]].
36	** Also, isn't it canon that Radiant Gardens was destroyed because of the six Apprentice's actions? And considering that also took Lea and Isa down with it, I thought that Axel and Saix's whole 'take over the Organization' scheme was code for 'get revenge for our world and ourselves'. And even if it wasn't, the point remains... Even was directly responsible for Lea getting his heart ripped out. I think after that, Axel murdering Vexen was more than justified. So yes, it's awesome because amazing method, and catharsis. Plus, in DDD there's no sign of a grudge between Lea and Ienzo, implying that Axel's murders were a simple case of eye for an eye, and while not exactly friends, they're both dropping the matter. Although if Even makes an appearance in Kingdom Hearts 3, he may feel differently on the matter.
37	** While I don't like seeing it anymore now that I took a liking to Vexen, until KHIII I ''really'' didn't like him and was actually scared of him. Not to mention that his fights were HARD, not helped by how often I had to defeat him. Seeing him set on fire was just cathartic, like "Oh God YES I'm rid of him!". I might've thought differently had it not been immediately after those bossfights.
38	* If [[ItWasHisSled Naminé is Kairi's Nobody,]] why is she blonde?
39	** Naminé's a special case. [=DiZ=] said so himself in VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII
40	** Also, she's not just Kairi's Nobody. She has bits of Ven in her just like Roxas. Since they came from the same event, it was only natural that they'd have similar features.
41	** The same reason why Roxas is voiced by Music/JesseMcCartney: [[MST3KMantra Why not?]]
42	** Wasn't she originally wasn't supposed to be Kairi's Nobody but they decide to change that after the original Chain of Memories came out?
43	* If Naminé is as much of a MarySue (deconstruction) as Xion, then why don't the shippers hate her as much?
44	** Possibly because Namine was introduced in such an early game, and Xion was not? Or maybe because she doesn't really pose that much of a threat to any ship--she does insert herself into Sora's memories, but by the end she's erased from those memories. Outside of this game, Namine does pose somewhat of a threat to the Axel/Roxas ship in [=KH2=], but doesn't seem to get nearly as much ship-tease as Xion did in Days.
45	** The game Namine was introduced in came out two years before [=KH2=], and her interactions with Roxas are pretty minimal and don't come off as ShipTease. She'd also been established as a character and not just a potential love interest. By the time 358/2 Days was out, the Axel/Roxas ship had just enough fuel and time to become a popular pairing. So when Xion comes into the picture, people instantly began to assume she was a "threat" to the Axel/Roxas ship as some ship fans tend to do. And with Xion having more time around Roxas than Namine, the ShipTease was able to build up which made these people unhappy. She's basically seen as more of an active threat than Namine when it comes to their ship.
46	** Probably because Namine is that, a deconstruction of the Mary Sue trope. While she does seem to fit in at first, it later becomes revealed that all the memories she made in Sora were lies and fabrications, she did it because she was forced to by Marluxia and Larxene, and also because she takes the first chance she gets to run away and try to set everything right. Heck, when push comes to shove, she shows she can force Repliku out of commission, but is then shown being entirely helpless before Larxene. And as said above, while she can tamper with memories, she doesn't abuse them and nor does she force people to like her, making it harder to add her into a ship, in which case she's not officially shown with anyone.
47	* Is the "Everything is ruled by Cards of your memory" thing a result of Castle Oblivion or was it merely something created by Namine's powers?
48	** Possibly the former. Castle Oblivion is really the Land of Departure, changed by Aqua to hide the sleeping Ventus away. It's noted for being a labyrinth inside, in which case the attempt to find the Room of Waking would always fail since no Organization members have found it (the reason they were sent to the Castle). Not to mention it's been said that using Cards and the Sleights are actually similar to the Command Deck style of gameplay found in Birth By Sleep and Dream Drop Distance, except made to be explicitly more annoying. It's possible that Aqua could change the rules of combat in Castle Oblivion to make it more annoying to intruders who come there. As for how the worlds created by cards of Memory and/or Namine manipulates the Castle or memories seen inside of it, it's likely the only way to explain this is the idea that the Castle uses the worlds in one's own memories to try and keep travelers out or give them a reason to revisit those places in reality. If utilizing memories is a defense mechanism of Castle Oblivion, then Namine is the only person who could viably manipulate the Castle itself given her power over memories.
49	* Why did Sora need to lock the Keyhole for Castle Oblivion? Didn't Aqua already do it as part of the instructions of turning Land of Departure into Castle Oblivion?
50	** That wasn't a Castle Oblivion's Keyhole, he was locking the door behind him. It's also presumed Sora and Mickey sealing the Door to Darkness not only restored the lost worlds but locked all of the keyholes to each worlds' hearts, seeing as in KH2, the worlds' walls were restored and special passageways were created for Sora and co. to travel between them, and that Sora never actually seals any Keyhole to a world's heart in the game.
51	* In light of recent revelations from ''[[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsX Kingdom Hearts Union Cross]]'', if Lauriam, Marluxia's original, was one of the Dandelions, and thus had a Keyblade, something that should carry over to his Nobody self, if Roxas is any indication, as well as implied with Xemnas, why does he need to manipulate Sora to even be able to use the Keyblade's power?
52	** Same troper here, giving only a guess as to the above: Terranort stabbing himself with his Keyblade, in his vain attempt to subdue Terra within him, lost his memories for a time, and subsequently, lost the ability to use his Keyblade. Something similar must have happened to Lauriam prior to becoming Marluxia that he lost and never regained the use of his Keyblade. Subsequently, he was drawn to it possibly because of lingering memories of having one, sensing his old Dandelion comrade Ventus within Sora, merely seeing Roxas, or a combination.
53	* Why doesn't Namine use her powers on the Organization? We know from [=KH2=] that it does in fact work on Nobodies, and if she has the ability to virtually ''shut down'' a person like she does with Repliku, why not try that on the people keeping her captive? Even if not something so extreme, why doesn't she simply make them think they're her friends so they'll let her go, or make turn them against each other so they'll fight?
54	** ...Namine's powers are tied directly to Sora (and by extension, those around him). She's only able to affect Roxas (and Xion) because of how tied they are to Sora. She was only able to affect Repliku because he was a replica that she had previously been forced to alter memories with, based on Sora (and the real Riku's) memories. She would NOT have been able to, say, "shut down" Marluxia.
55	* If Marluxia's goal was to manipulate Sora into being his pawn by having Naminé alter his memories, then what was the point of making him forget everything from the first game?
56	** So that he wouldn't be as inclined to question why his other memories were different then the ones he still remembered. If Sora essentially slowly gets used to his memories being lost, but the ones he ''does'' remember featuring an ever more important Naminé in them (as happens with each floor you go), Sora will be uncertain of what is false and what is real in his memories, and will cling to what's left, which in Marluxia's plan, would be just what binds him to Namine, and thus make him their pawn. If they just had Namine rewrite everything on the spot (if she can even do all of that efficiently that quickly) Sora might experience some dissonance or side-effect from having everything altered so suddenly. Another way to put it is with difference between the tropes of "normal" mind control, and MoreThanMindControl. They were turning Sora's feelings and memories steadily against him so they could control him in more complex, but also more deep-set way then if they just made him believe everything wasn't how he remembered right on the spot.

Context Headscratchers / KingdomHeartsChainOfMemories