| 1 | {{Headscratchers}} for ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance''. |
| 2 | ---- |
| 3 | * The entire premise of the game: So Riku and Sora have poor keyblade technique, which is why Yen Sid de-ages them in the dream world, so they don't have those bad habits in their muscle memory. Their sloppy technique is due to them not having any proper training, and just having to make it up as they go along. I get all this. What I don't get is why they decide to then ''still not give them any proper training and force them to make it up as they go along.'' What exactly are Yen Sid and Mickey hoping to accomplish? There's no actual instruction going on! The boys are just hacking and slashing like they've always done, relearning the same shitty fighting style. |
| 4 | ** Look at the combat system, it's very similar to Birth By Sleep. So even if their normal combos are unrefined, the way they perform their techniques and spells no longer require Reaction Commands or Mana. Furthermore, they can properly perform stunts that would make [[VideoGame/DevilMayCry Dante]] [[CutscenePowerToTheMax jealous]], and implement them in combat too. This training essentially strips away Sora and Riku's previous limitations. |
| 5 | ** If you think about it, since they're mostly acquiring new abilities, techniques and magic through Dream Eaters, they're also more or less receiving proper instruction from them. |
| 6 | *** So Sora and Riku started several adventures from scratch, always taught themselves every technique from anew. But once they do it in the realm of dreams, they somehow learn similar techniques like the wayfinder-trio? No, the two of them don't learn similar techniques - they even become STRONGER than the trio after merely entering the realm of dreams? Seriously? Entering the realm of dreams automatically gives Sora and Riku techniques that not even Eraqus could teach to Terra, Aqua and Ventus? You better find a better explanation. |
| 7 | *** I don't think it was from merely entering the Realm of Sleep, but it bears mentioning that the rules of the place are different from the Realm of Light and Darkness. Also, the duo happen to have some nifty innate abilities, Sora having connections to his friends that give him insane strength and allow him to wield the Keyblade despite not being chosen, and Riku having developed complete immunity to Darkness, thus allowing him to use it without being corrupted. |
| 8 | * So Xehanort's plan is [[spoiler: to create the X-Blade by bringing together seven lights and thirteen darknesses]], right? So... Would that not mean that Yen Sid putting together [[spoiler: a force of seven lights to combat him]] is actually just playing right into his hands? Surely if they just don't create the [[spoiler: force of seven]] then Xehanort's plans will be foiled, since he'll be short of the things he needs to make his plan work? |
| 9 | ** This is covered in the secret ending. [[spoiler: Yen Sid establishes this and points out that Xehanort will just go after the 7 princesses of heart if they choose to do nothing. He calls in Kairi assumedly for training in order to combat this.]] |
| 10 | ** In case it wasn't readily obvious, [[spoiler: Master Xehanort pretty much has Yen Sid by the balls, and training Kairi can possibly be seen as a desperate move on Yen Sid's part. Can't blame him for his predicament though.]] |
| 11 | ** What I would like to know is why Yen Sid and the others don't just train more than 7 Keyblade Wielders so Xehanort's plan can't work, there's quite a few people they could use for that and they'd have a better chance of defeating Xehanort the more they've got on their side anyway. |
| 12 | ** Because there's a severe lack of capable Keyblade wielders at the moment. And ''if'' these people were from other worlds, then Yen Sid would be breaking one of the most important laws in traveling to other worlds: Never telling about the existence of said worlds. |
| 13 | *** There's a large number of characters "in the know" about other worlds they could make into Keyblade wielders, many of which have already had practical combat experience, and then speed train them like they did with Lea. There's most of the former Organization members, Donald and Goofy, the Radiant Garden gang, Queen Minne and probably a few others from Disney Castle, Merlin... and that's just the first ones I can think of. There's little reason to limit their troops to just 7. |
| 14 | *** There's that little whammy about the Keyblade choosing it's master, and/or the inheritance ceremony mentioned in BBS. Pretty sure the Keyblade wouldn't choose people on the fly simply because they have combat experience. If it did, just about every swordsman from the FF gang would've had Keyblades since day one, which they don't. Donald and Goofy are doing just fine with their Shields and Spells. Queen Minnie has to look over Disney Castle and Town since Mickey is out. As for the Org XIII members, some of them are human again, three of them are with the New Org XIII, and God knows where the others are. |
| 15 | *** "The Keyblade chooses it master" only applies to Sora's Keyblade, a special Keyblade that was not formed of the heart of anyone, every other Keyblade in the series is unique to the person that manifested it and can't be wielded by anyone else. ANYONE that has the power of the Keyblade passed to them can wield a Keyblade provided they know how, that power can be passed on in numerous ways including unintentionally, a single person can pass that power on to numerous people, and Lea goes through speed training to be able to manifest his, why not anyone else? Just recruit Leon, Cid, Yuffie, Cloud, and anyone else that wants to join in the fight, do the inheritance ritual with them all, then speed train them to manifest their Keyblade, and they'd have a more than dozen Keyblade wielders on their side easy without even counting the ones they already have. |
| 16 | *** Well in Lea's case, speed training was only done because something was amiss in Sora and Riku's Mark of Mastery exam, it was a rushed plan, and even then he STILL couldn't manifest it until the end of the game. Even if others were capable, they probably don't have the time to train, from proper manefestation, usage, transformation technique, to the mark of mastery, since Xehanort will already be on the move with his plans, so time isn't exactly on their side. Hell, that's why the troper above us probably mentioned that training Kairi is a pretty desperate move on Yen Sid's part. |
| 17 | *** The fact that they have the time to train Kairi is another thing that makes the whole idea of training just 7 Keyblade wielders and thus playing right into Xehanort's hands nonsense. Yen Sid is already training Kairi to be a Keyblade wielder and she's as green as it gets, what's the harm in training a dozen or more? There's already plenty of people they currently could make into Keyblade wielders which already have plenty of experience in combating Heartless and Nobodies that simply performing the Keyblade inheritance ritual and training them to manifest their Keyblades is all they would really need to have done to prepare them for this battle. Then there's the fact that they could bring those same people in to go fight Xehanort without even needing to get them Keyblades in the first place and thus stop Xehanort's plans right off, since several of them are strong enough as is they don't even need Keyblades to take down Keyblade wielders. |
| 18 | *** If they took their time to train additional Keyblade wielders, then Xehanort will just attack the Princesses of Heart, since they can technically fill in for the 7 lights needed form the X-Blade. And this other explanation kinda falls into WMG territory, but if they train more than 7 wielders of light, it might create an imbalance between light and darkness when the inevitable clash forges the X-Blade, and who knows what the result of that will be? There's no indication that an excess of light would be any better than an excess of darkness. |
| 19 | * One thing that bothered me was that in Prankster's Palace, Riku meets [[spoiler: his dark self]] which was then never mentioned again. What the heck happened there? Did the creators forget about him? |
| 20 | ** It seemed to be just a reason for Riku to go on about his darkness and how he needs to develop, and all that stuff. Or maybe it was Ansem trolling him. Maybe both. |
| 21 | ** well, considering that [[spoiler: he's in Sora's dreams]] Perhaps his [[spoiler: Dark Self is part of the dream in Prankster's paradise/Monstro, since he did appear there in the first game.]] it's a bit of a stretch, but once you think about it, it would make sense. |
| 22 | ** He could be one of the Xehanorts. Six of them are currently unidentified. |
| 23 | ** Ahem, REPLIKU. |
| 24 | ** My theory is that the Dark Riku represents the real Riku as he was in Monstro back in KH1; remember, Prankster's Paradise is, of the Sleeping Worlds, the only one where Sora has (in a way) been in before. The Monstro scenes in DDD have Jiminy and Pinocchio inside Monstro with Pinocchio missing, ''which did not happen until KH1'', as Prankster's Paradise fell into darkness shortly after Monstro swallowed them, with Monstro and Geppetto ending in the space between worlds, Pinocchio in Traverse Town and Jiminy somehow in Disney's Castle. Besides, in Riku's scenario, Pinocchio doesn't have the donkey ears and tail... like he was in KH1. Riku is in Sora's dreams. ''Sora is dreaming about Pinocchio's world as it was in KH1 because that's how that world is most significant to him''. |
| 25 | * I honestly have no problem with Sora and Riku going back to their old outfits. However, what annoys me is how they look younger, akin to how they look in the first game. Meanwhile, this game is said to take place AFTER [=KH2=]. Compare the look of Riku in the trailer to how he looked in [=KH2=]. Big difference. Since this game takes place after [=KH2=], so why not use Sora and Riku's [=KH2=] look, or at least keep them older looking? |
| 26 | ** Traverse town shouldn't really exist anymore, either, since it was made of world-shards of destroyed worlds, as I recall, and even if it did exist it should be long-crumbled and abandoned. My guess? Plot stuff involving diaries, virtual worlds, journeys to the center of the mind, memories, yadda yadda. Wait for the game to come out. |
| 27 | ** Something about dreams is part of the plot. |
| 28 | ** In the 2/23/12 issue of Famitsu, a screenshot has Yen Sid explain it: Yen Sid: I will have you go back to Destiny Islands, as it was when it was swallowed by darkness and sleeping. So presumably their appearance matches their KH ages because that's where they start in the dreams. |
| 29 | ** [[spoiler: they go back in time]] |
| 30 | *** With the sole Problem being this: Up until DDD, Nomura's answer to the question "What the hell was the last world in the first KH?" always was "It's Destiny Island after falling into darkness". And now the worlds suddenly fall into sleep? Heavy case of retcon here. |
| 31 | *** Retcons are Nomura's favorite drug, The Compilation of FFVII is enough proof for that. Jokes aside, Destiny Islands is probably just a jumping point for Sora and Riku, since it was where they started their respective journeys into light and darkness. One could also make the (insane) argument that the invasion of the hearless, or the very appearance of [=AnsemSoD=] caused the place to go to sleep. |
| 32 | * If the Realm of Sleep contains worlds not fully restored, how did Traverse Town become part of the dreamworld? It was intact by the end of Kingdom Hearts I, and its keyhole was sealed, which should have prevented any heartless from destroying it. |
| 33 | ** Well, Traverse Town was basically refugee town made up almost entirely by people who had their own worlds destroyed in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'', So I would [[WildMassGuessing WMG]] that the world itself might just be composed entirely of wreckage or at least having been "damaged" enough that it started attracting things into itself in attempt to restore itself, thus making it "incomplete", I am fairly sure that it was mentioned that Traverse Town got a "[[WeirdnessMagnet special]]" placement like The World That Never Was in a interview, Albeit it was few years ago i read said interview. |
| 34 | ** Traverse Town is "special" in the sense that it is located in the Realm Between, along with Twilight Town, The World That Never Was, and Castle Oblivion/Land of Departure. Now, I'm not sure about this "Realm of Sleep", but it's not unreasonable to think that Traverse Town would hold a gateway to it, considering its location is a crossroads of two Realms (Light and Dark) already. |
| 35 | ** That and it's a [[spoiler:Dream Copy of Traverse Town.]] |
| 36 | ** Joshua mentions that [[spoiler:Traverse Town only appears when someone needs it as a refuge.]] |
| 37 | * The ending of the recent trailer [[spoiler: where Xehanort recovers his keyblade and attacks Braig shortly after apparently killing Even and Ienzo,]] seems to imply that Organization members 2-6 didn't join up willingly like we thought before. [[spoiler: Rather, they were forcibly turned into heartless/nobodies by Xehanort.]] Not only does this [[RetCon seem to run contrary to what we heard in KH2]], but it also brings the question of why [[spoiler: ''any'' member of the Organization would follow Xemnas, considering his murderous rampage as Xehanort is what got them all into this mess to begin with.]] |
| 38 | ** Well, [[spoiler:if they ''did'' willingly join Xehanort/Xemnas afterward (perhaps out of fear, perhaps not), then his [[MagnificentBastard charisma]] could've won them over. After all, the Organization is ''very much'' like a cult. It's also possible that UnreliableNarrator was in effect with what was disclosed before, with the real set of events lying somewhere in the middle.]] I'm certain that more and more of the real story will slowly reveal itself in due time. |
| 39 | ** It could be a {{Retcon}}. It would be ''far'' from the first time this series has had one (example: Ansem says in his reports in [=KH2=] that he found Xehanort and nursed him back to help "some years back", and that particular report is written at a time before Xehanort betrays him. But in BBS, he finds Xehanort 10 years before the original KH...and in there, it was said that the destruction of Hollow Bastion happened 9 years ago. Which means he just had Xehanort for an apprentice for little over a year!) |
| 40 | *** Joshua says time flows differently in different worlds, so this is not necessarily a contradiction. |
| 41 | ** An alternate possibility is that this was not the event that turned them into Nobodies. If you recall from ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'' you saw 5 'pods' in Hollow Bastion/End of the World, implying the Apprentices went into them voluntarily. Perhaps what as seen was an experiment (which in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'' we were told were being run on Apprenice Xehanort's heart, in order to restore his memories) gone awry. |
| 42 | *** Going off of this, it's possible that the attack simply unlocked the darkness in the other apprentices' hearts, similar to when Rikunort used the Keyblade of People's Hearts on Maleficent. This possibly made them more susceptible to the darkness experiments they were performing (as well as, possibly, their exile of Ansem), eventually leading to the them using the pods seen in the first game. |
| 43 | *** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucb9qe4dC5Y Look again]], you can see both Even and Ienzo's bodies are begining to fade away, which isn't what happened to Maleficent, and [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSaMxOUh_iw later on]] it is explained that most of the former nobodies were reformed in the same place they lost their hearts, which we were [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSbkjdWVk7U already shown]] since you can see Even and Ienzo are in the same spots and positions as they were in the flashback. |
| 44 | ** Alternately, this ''was'' the event that turned them into Nobodies, and they used those pods in Hollow Bastion in an attempt to create artificial hearts and turn themselves back. This event created the Emblem Heartless, and led to them giving up hope and joining Xemnas. Again, just more WMG-ing. |
| 45 | ** [=KH2=]'s backstory was told from Ansem's perspective, not Xehanort's. It's not unreasonable to assume that Ansem misinterpreted the situation. |
| 46 | *** Maybe Ansem/Xehanort simply screwed with their memories a bit when he turned the Apprentices into Heartless, intentionally or not, therefore they simply didn't remember he was responsible and Xemnas just fed them a few lines of B.S. about the whole situation to get them to follow him. |
| 47 | * A new world is [[WesternAnimation/MickeyDonaldGoofyTheThreeMusketeers The Three Musketeers]] [[CaptainObvious (Disney version)]]. What doesn't make sense is that Mickey, Donald, and Goofy (supposedly) never leave the Realm of Light. In one of the trailers, you can see Donald, Goofy, safe-ish to assume Mickey is off-camera, in Yen Sid's tower with Sora and Riku. And it's sort-of-said by Yen Sid in the same trailer that only Sora and Riku enter the Realm of Sleep. Yet here they are, in a world of their own. |
| 48 | ** They're not the real Mickey, Donald, and Goofy. They're the Dreamworld's versions. The ''real'' ones are still in the Realm of Light [[spoiler: confronting Maleficient at Disney Castle.]] |
| 49 | *** That or maybe it has something to do with [[NarniaTime time working differently between worlds?]] |
| 50 | *** The Dream Worlds are established in-game as being the worlds that fell to darkness but never managed to recover. When Sora and Riku explore them, they act as snapshots of those worlds sometime before they fell. The time between Dream Worlds doesn't have to match up; Pinnochio's dream world is set immediately before ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'', while The Country of the Musketeers is set a long time before ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep''. |
| 51 | * So, Neku's in here. Along with Shiki, Beat, Rhyme and Joshua. They're all back in the Game, too. Why's that? Would this be a kind of "TWEWY events set in a parallel dimension, and crossovered with KH" sort of thing? |
| 52 | ** Why don't you wait and play the game and find out? |
| 53 | ** Anything involving ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou'' can be summed up as: Joshua is a jackass. |
| 54 | *** While that's true, it can be better summed up as: all according to Mr. H's plan. |
| 55 | ** You can probably assume that they have the same thing going for them as the Final Fantasy characters, where while the characters and some of their issues are there, they're done differently. |
| 56 | *** To be fair, a case can be made for one character (Auron) to be from their original continuity. Nomura may or may not be afraid to play it that way with TWEWY since it's a stand alone title. IMO, still too early to tell what the deal is here. |
| 57 | ** [[spoiler:They are Dream Copy of themselves.]] |
| 58 | *** To elaborate, [[spoiler:The TWEWY cast here have been made out of the memories of their lives by Joshua. Who's to say that at Shibuya's destruction Joshua crossed over into the KH universe and remade what he could from the memories he found?]] |
| 59 | * Heartless cannot enter the Realm of Sleep. But Ansem, the Seeker of Darkness appears in Notre Dame. He is a Heartless. There is an inconsistency here. |
| 60 | ** Assuming it's really him and not simply an apparition. |
| 61 | ** Well Ansem ([=SoD=]) isn't your typical Heartless. On top of that, there's all these Xehanorts running around, so there could be an explanation. If nothing else, these are dream worlds, and no one knows yet what's real and what's not. |
| 62 | ** It's not "Heartless can't enter." It's "Because there are no gates, not even the Heartless can get in." Being a Xehanort, Ansem was able to find another way in |
| 63 | ** Maybe, much like Riku became a Spirit in Sora's dreams, Ansem The SoD became a Nightmare for as long as he stayed in there, effectivelly, it makes no difference for him, so it wasn't even mentioned. |
| 64 | ** He was [[spoiler:Time-Travelling]] with Young Xehanort |
| 65 | * Why is it every time Xion is seen in these trailers fans go crazy? 358/2 explained what she was and that she cannot come back without F-ing up Sora royally. I understand the conflict that her presence will present in Sora for this game, I just want to know why fans honestly think she can come back? |
| 66 | ** Because it's Kingdom Hearts? Because we're dealing with Disney characters, the PowerOfFriendship, and a heart shaped moon that's said to be able to create an entire world, and absolutely anything can happen at this point? |
| 67 | ** I think the answer to this question is thus: Throughout [[VideoGame/KingdomHearts358DaysOver2 Days]], Roxas (and by extension, the player) has a deep emotional connection to Xion... and then [[WhamEpisode WHAM]]! CessationOfExistence. When the credits roll, we're thoroughly convinced that [[RetGone she'll never so much as be mentioned again, let alone seen again]]. Therefore, whenever Xion shows up in the trailers for [=KH3D=], it's kinda like seeing the love of your life, who died 3 years ago, standing right in front of you saying [[UnexplainedRecovery they got better]]. Who cares about the ramifications? That can wait 'till after the welcome-back glomp. |
| 68 | ** Though Xion's existence in Days was causing problems for Sora, that may not be the case if she returned. As it stands, thanks to Namine in coded, Mickey knows that she existed, and based on Roxas' use of plural pronouns in the trailer, he presumably remembers her as well. |
| 69 | *** Thank you for giving the most unbiased answer regarding this question. Although to question your point further, wasn't it clearly stated in Days that Xion's existence was preventing him from being whole? I cannot see any logical route in having Xion "come back" without there being complications with Sora as her whole being is centered around his memories. |
| 70 | *** I don't believe it was stated that she couldn't be saved, only that Naminé didn't know how. Whether justified or not, saving Xion was the last thing on her, Riku, or [=DiZ=]'s minds at the time. |
| 71 | *** I think it may be possible for all of them to co-exist at the same time. Before Sora was put to sleep in COM, him, Roxas and Xion were all pretty fine till Sora's memories were screwed around with and said stated events needed to happen. If they could do it then, why not again? Then again, this game IS taking place in Dream World's and based on the recent trailer the [[spoiler: Xehanort's are all gathering together, looking pretty stabe and fine. But, once again, based on that trailer, Sora is going to apparently be, as you said, royally [[MindRape screwed with]] (and suffer a [[HeroicBSOD Heroic BSOD]], but it's implied that that has to deal with [[MindHive EVERYONE]] inside Sora (and the [[MagnificentBastard bastards]] [[IHaveManyNames known]] [[LegacyCharacter as the Xehanort's]]), not just Xion.]] |
| 72 | ** Maybe it's like how [[spoiler: Nobodies can grow hearts]] maybe she'll be able to grow her own heart and become a separate person. |
| 73 | *** I recently saw the ''Days'' story on 1.5, so I remember Naminé talking about this with Riku. She theorized that she could have spared Xion and Sora, but combing through their merged memories to surgically pick out Sora's and keep Xion intact would have taken time. Probably years compared to the less than a year it would have taken for Sora. It was the complicated situation they were pressed into due to DiZ's hatred and impatience, and the potential damage to Sora if anything went wrong. If these issues were resolved, then Xion could exist independently from Sora. |
| 74 | * How is it that the unknown resembles a young master Xehanort? When did he have time to make another incarnation? Do they seriously expect us to believe that he could have done that while being stuck in New-Xehanort, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, and assumingly Xemnas? |
| 75 | ** You do realize that a lot of the game is in dreams right? And that it's not out yet? It'll probably be explained when the time comes. |
| 76 | ** While it's not an explanation, it had been said this unknown figure (who's confirmed to be the Unknown boss from BBS) somehow has dark figures show up wherever he goes. Case in point: ''Vanitas'' shows up, when he's supposed to be GONE. And also, from the way things were explained, if the Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, the original person comes back (meaning the others are never seen again). But Ansem SOD and Xemnas are shown to be around, even as Master Xehanort is back... and also, Nomura said that the BBS Unknown's 'laser blades' have a look of time-travel about them, or something of that nature. |
| 77 | ** So really, we don't quite have a clue about this Unknown figure (yet), but everyone of the Xehanorts are back (except Terranort, unless this Unknown is him, somehow), and trouble's brewing. |
| 78 | ** Unknown/Mysterious Figure is [[spoiler:Young Master Xehanort]]. It's unknown if (spoiler warning) [[spoiler:Terranort is back along with the rest of the new Organization XIII (or should I say--mind the pun--Orga'''nort'''zation XIII), but Master Xehanort notes something along the lines of one of the seven hearts of light being in his possession, so it's very well possible that he was referring to Terranort, who could possibly be one the remaining and yet revealed six members of the new Organization.]] |
| 79 | * Why is Chernabogs boss fight so simple? KH1, big, scary, epic fight. [=KH3D=]? Dodging and lovetaps. The hell? |
| 80 | ** It was in Dive Mode, too. Maybe the devs thought, since it's such a long way to go to get to him anyway, they'd make it easy? |
| 81 | ** Its not easy after landing the first hit. Chernabog starts sending out ghost which drain HP and are hard to shake of with Dodging Deflect. Then again, YMMV. |
| 82 | ** Said ghosts can't kill you, only drain you down to 1 HP, as long as you are still good enogh to dodge everything else, he is an incredibly easy boss. |
| 83 | *** Which is why I died once, because of frantically dodging into an obstacle. |
| 84 | ** This troper thinks it's because the fight wasn't meant to be hard. It was meant to look and sound awesome. Which it succeeded at. |
| 85 | * If Master Xehanort returned from the defeat of Ansem [=SoD=] and Xemnas, what about Terra? His heart and Xehanort's inhabited the same body when the Heartless and Nobody were created. Does this mean Terra has regained his body? |
| 86 | ** Pretty much, yeah. They probably just have to find him at this point, which will probably will be a minor plot point in the next game. |
| 87 | * Probably due to the lack of a proper translation, but what exactly ''is'' [[spoiler:Young Xehanort's]] deal? [[spoiler:Is he an alternate timeline Xehanort, a StableTimeLoop Xehanort, a Xehanort from an alternate timeline converted ''into'' a StableTimeLoop?]] Various places (even on this site) say varying things. |
| 88 | ** It's a bit hard (and confusing), but the gist of it is below |
| 89 | --> Original Young Xehanort grew up into the Master Xehanort we all know |
| 90 | --> Birth by Sleep's events happened, and he became Terranort |
| 91 | --> At one point, he split into AnsemSoD and Xemnas |
| 92 | --> Somewhere along all their scheming and plotting, AnsemSoD traveled back in time and found Young Xehanort, both influencing him to become Master Xehanort in the first place, AND travel forward in time to help all his future selves. So yeah, Xehanort was more-or-less responsible for his OWN StartOfDarkness, thanks to ample use of StableTimeLoop. |
| 93 | *** So Xehanort pulled a [[spoiler:''Garland'']], of all things? |
| 94 | ** [[spoiler:Ansem didn't influence Young Xehanort in any way. All Ansem did was send him on a journey throughout time to retrieve all the incarnations of Xehanort, both fused and splintered, to prepare failsafes in case Xemnas plan to turn all the Organization XIII containers for Master Xehanort's heart (Which he did; only Isa and Braig were turned.) Young Xehanort is going to return back to his time after helping his older self forge the X-Blade by fighting the seven lights and will have no recollection of events that happened outside his time. Thus, Ansem did NOT create a {{StableTimeLoop}}; Young Xehanort is still going to leave the islands and turn evil because the past cannot be changed.]] |
| 95 | ** But due to the effects of YX time traveling, his heart was imprinted upon. This is what causes him to grow into the MX we all know and hate. If not for YX time traveling after obtaining the ability from Ansem(SoD)he never would have followed his urge to leave the islands and start his path to darkness. Thus, a {{StableTimeLoop}} was indeed created since the future events following this cause the past and so on. |
| 96 | * Okay, So Dream Traverse Town is made out of [[spoiler:Rhyme's memories]], Okay I would buy that. BUT... [[spoiler:Why did Rhyme have a Memories of Traverse Town?]], Did she been to Traverse Town or what? |
| 97 | ** [[spoiler:Yep. Shibuya was destroyed by the Heartless. Guess where the survivors went.]] |
| 98 | ** [[FanficFuel Where the FanFic of the TWEwY in Non-Dream Traverse Town?]] |
| 99 | * So Yoshiya "Joshua" Kiryu tell me why, [[spoiler:O why Shiki is in Eri's appearance?]] |
| 100 | ** Presumably for 2 reasons: |
| 101 | -->Her true appearance is spoilers from the game, and Joshua knows this. |
| 102 | -->Her current appearance is the most [[MaleGaze eye-catching]], for both the audience and everyone else. |
| 103 | ** Say, did you know? We all perceive the world around us differently, filtered through the lens of our desired reality. So if you're wondering why a certain young lady still looks like somebody else... it's because you refuse to perceive her as she really is. The only thing stopping you from seeing what she really looks like...is you. So you see, it's your fault. |
| 104 | ** This is a Dream World and [[spoiler:She just a Dream herself, maybe she still Dream as Eri.]] |
| 105 | ** Or given that [[spoiler:this may not be the ''real'' Reaper's Games, Joshua may put her in that from to add the Illusion.]] |
| 106 | * So. Could anybody PLEASE explain to me WHAT the deal with Xehanort's plan [[spoiler: to assemble 13 Dark Hearts and 7 Lights]] is?! [[spoiler: So, basically, he needs 13 hearts of pure Darkness and 7 hearts of pure light to create a PERFECT x-Blade, one that won't shatter on the first-best oportunity, like Venitas' did. So far, so good. However, it's been stated SEVERAL times that the only pure-light hearts are the 7 Princesses of Heart, who were part of the first X-Blade too, meaning that he will NEED those to combat his Organization of Clones, everything else wouldn't work. OK, OK, that still makes sense. HOWEVER, suddenly, he claims he was also trying to gather "7 Protectors of Light", keyblade wielders, to start the Keyblade war with. OK, OK, now, what did I miss? If he gets his X-Blade by just sending his Organization XIII.2 to merge with the Princesses, why would he want 7 Keyblade Wielders to OPPOSE him?! He sure as hell can't forge the X-Blade for them, Riku and Lea are partially Darkness Users themselves and even if they weren't, it's CLEAR none of them are hearts of pure light, not even Mickey or Sora. So are the 7 Protectors of Light meant to serve as bodyguards for the Princesses? The Secret Ending heavily implies this to be the case. But why would Xehanort WANT bodyguards for them? Why would he WANT them to be protected when he comes to take them? And if there is a reason, why would Yen Sid play right into the plan by assembling the 7 Protectors of Light himself when Xehanort fails at it?! Why?! Why do it HAVE to be 7, can't they just, like, just have 6 and place two princesses under the protection of one? I'm sure Riku could pull that off, he's become pretty overkill during the game. And why, in Light's sake, did they decide to make Kairi a Protector of Light herself?! Is she supposed to be her own bodyguard?! With only a few months of Keyblade experience?! Nice job, playing the Cosmic Keystone right into Characters/OrganizationXIII.2's hands then, Yen Sid!]] ...Uhh... My brain... it hurts... X-x |
| 107 | ** Since there's a lot questions, I'll start with a few at once. |
| 108 | -->[[spoiler:'''Why is Kairi gonna protect herself?''']] Considering she's in danger anyway, being a Princess of Heart, what better way to defend herself than being experienced with a keyblade? And also, if she's gonna be guarded anyway, it's safer to be guarded AND be able to defend herself. |
| 109 | -->[[spoiler:'''Why does Xehanort want bodyguards for the 7 Princess's?''']] Considering Master Xehanort's rigged use of CrazyPrepared, ThePlan, XanatosSpeedChess, and other tropes... he's probably gonna have plans for them, for his own amusement, while still being able to take the 7 Princess's. [[spoiler:Plus, he'll need the 7 Protecters for when he forges his perfect X-blade, so he can see what a 2nd Keyblade War looks like]], you know, ForScience. |
| 110 | --> There is also the fact that when you add up the numbers everything is evened out. Thing of it like this there are 13 darknesses and seven lights and [[spoiler:seven protectors. One of the lights is also a protector. So between the lights and protectors there are thirteen individuals on each side.]] Xehanort original plan was to balance out light and dark while at the same time cause a new keyblade war. The six protectors [[spoiler:that aren't a light]] will have both light and darkness. Combining every aspect mentioned above it's safe to assume he wants 13 darknesses, seven lights and six of those in between as six is the difference between thirteen and seven. His plan actually makes perfect sense once you stop and think about every single thing about Xehanort's current and previous plans. |
| 111 | *** His plan, quite frankly, sounds purely like he just wants to gain ultimate power to fuck everything up for as many people as possible ForTheEvulz. [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII Just like]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIII every other]] [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyX Nomura villain]]. |
| 112 | ** The "protectors" are just as good as the 7 lights. It's not about how pure their hearts are. He doesn't need 7 pure lights, he just needs 7 representations of light. And that's what the 7 guardians are: guardians of light. So he can fuse with them to create the X-blade. If they refuse to fight, he'll just use the 7 PoH, who can't really defend themselves. If the guardians try to protect the PoHs, they'll be opposing his 13 darknesses and thus will be forging the X-blade anyway. It's pretty much flawless, hence why Yen Sid is training Kairi to fight good with a keyblade so that not all of Xehanorts options will be as open to him as he thinks. |
| 113 | * So what did happen to Shiki before Riku run into [[spoiler:Young Xehanort?]] |
| 114 | ** Not sure... but if I saw the scenes right, all that really happened was that Shiki lost Mr. Mew, appearing very nervous and scared (but apparently unharmed) later. Considering she's defenseless without that thing, she had good reason to be so. But whatever happened was offscreen, so we can only guess. |
| 115 | * I'm in for a major headache if I continue to pursue this answer, as if already '''''barely''''' managing to figure out the entire plot of the whole series and its mythology wasn't bad enough, but I have to know. [[spoiler: Xehanort planned from the ending of Birth by Sleep, that I understand. The manipulation of events that culminated Kingdom Hearts I & II I can also understand and actually admire in a bizarre twist]]. What I DON'T understand is just what the hell was with Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas? [[spoiler: Despite both being tasked to bring together the 7 Lights vs 13 Darkness' to re-create the x-Blade, we all know that in each game, both incarnations of Xehanort were seeking Kingdom Hearts for completely different reasons, and the fact both the 7 Lights (Princesses) were kind of just ignored after Xehanort's Heartless got what he wanted and that Xemnas was more focused on summoning Kingdom Hearts using Sora while ignoring the fact he was meant to be implanting pieces of Xehanort's heart into all 13 members to create his clones...]] just... ah... ow. My brain. Please, can someone give me an actual explaination outside "because the creators pulled it out their ass"? As likely as it sounds, I want to believe they actually planned '''some''' part of this. |
| 116 | ** '''Warning''': spoilers ahead. It's more a case of [[EvilPlan "I have many plans" in addition to one big plan]]. When Master Xehanort split into his Heartless and Nobody, some small part of his plans/memories stayed in both their minds. This made sure they were on the same side the whole time, even as they did their own plans. |
| 117 | --> Ansem SOD's main plan was to get godlike power by gaining control of Kingdom Hearts, while at the same time, going back in time to get another version of Young Master Xehanort to become one of the 13 Darkness's. Xemnas's main plan was to make the 13 Darkness's, by making Organization XIII and slowly turning them into Xehanorts, while at the same time, also going his way to get godlike power by making a fake Kingdom Hearts. This way, even if Master Xehanort didn't come back, his other selves do his ForScience plans. |
| 118 | -->They were both defeated, putting a damper on the Kingdom Hearts aspect of the plan, but reforming Master Xehanort. Plus, they've gotten 12 of the 13 Darkness's, so Master Xehanort is still easily going strong on his plans. |
| 119 | -->For the Roxas/Xion plan, Xemnas planned to make the fake Kingdom Hearts, and gain control of a Sora to become his 13th Darkness. The fake Kingdom Heart was made, but Roxas got away, so the plan shifted to the real Sora. With the events of 3D, this hasn't happened, thanks to Riku. |
| 120 | -->So in other words... it's a WHOLE NEW LEVEL of ThePlan. |
| 121 | ** Alternate Interpretation |
| 122 | -->Ansem needed to put Sora and/or Riku on their destined path and Ansem's own destruction to reform Geezernort. He did this by plunging the worlds into darkness and creating a pseudo Kingdom Hearts of World's hearts as bait for the Keyblade wielder to come. Xemnas too needed to ensure Sora and Riku's path and needed his own destruction. However, he made his KH to make the original Organization replace their own hearts with Xehanort's. However, that plan was somewhat scrapped save for Xigbar and Saix. |
| 123 | ** Well Xemnas was supposed to have amnesia, so maybe he made the Org because of some vague memory of 13 Darknesses? Ansem clearly had his memories, he was the one to get Young!Xehanort, so him going after Kingdom Hearts was probably an attempt to force a keyblade wielder into the open where he could steal their body. After that his motives get confusing. He had his memories so he knew KH was light not darkness so he had to have willingly gone to die, but if he wanted that why bother with the bodyjacking, why not just piss off some villian and have them off him? In any case, after his parts die Xehanort reforms and uses the bits and pieces of his copies' plans to kickoff his real plan. This way it's less Xehanort planned this all out 12 years in advance, and more he's just good at XanatosSpeedChess. |
| 124 | ** Ansem's a heartless, only the Keyblade and probably the light of Kingdom Hearts can "off" him permanently. |
| 125 | * Okay I got one that's been bothering me for a while now. How is it that Rinzler ended up remember his encounter with Sora in Space Paranoids if that Tron was a copy of the original? |
| 126 | ** Due to a concept that has been introduced into the series in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'' and continously gained more and more importance ever since then. I nicknamed it "Heart Resonance": Whenever a person in the Universe of Kingdom Hearts meets someone they associate strong emotions to and expresses them, these emotions will eventually jump over to the person they're associated to as well, whether or not they actually have any memories or even true connection to them. It happened when Sora met the real Hayner, Pence and Olette after Roxas had embedded Data-Hayner, Data-Pence and Data-Olette in his heart as friends: Sora started crying and the kids suddenly began to feel like they had met him before as well. The same thing happens again in Coded when Data!Sora meets Donald and Goofy and, through their continous friendly actions towards Data!Sora eventually cause Data!Sora to develope a sense of Dèjá vu and the same sense of "attachment" that the real Sora has to them. Basically, it's like this: It doesn't matter if a connection is initially real, if a heart reaches out to you to make a connection and your heart is ready to accept it, it WILL become real. Add to that the fact that Sora's heart has basically been stated to have the power to create bonds incredibly quickly and efficiently, and you realize that Sora's heart must have pretty much hijacked itself into Tron's within Rinzler and continued to press until it finally opened up and made the connection. |
| 127 | *** Basically, [[WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender some friendships are so strong, they can even transcend lifetimes.]] |
| 128 | ** That explaination makes sense, but even though the connection between the Rinzler situation and that concept is there when you think about it, you're reading into it too much: [[spoiler: Rinzler was Tron under CLU's control, right? Complete control, no less--Tron had lost all of his willpower to him, not even remembering Flynn or Sora, and only following CLU's orders. In 3D, you fight and defeat Rinzler. Wouldn't it stand to reason that Sora was able to snap Tron out of CLU's control by defeating him? So, now that he's the original Tron again, the program meant to protect the Users, does he really need to remember Sora to protect him (from CU's attack)? And when he reached out for Sora's hand when he was about to fall through, well, if you were about to fall into some abyss, then someone reaches out their hand to help you, wouldn't you take it? whether or not you knew them?]] Basically what I'm saying is this: Those actions after the battle only show that Sora broke CLU's hold on Tron, not necessarily that Tron remembered Sora. Yes, Sora kept commenting that he was Tron's friend and he did claim that Tron remembered him as he reached out his hand, but... this is Sora we're talking about. Slow on the uptake as he was, it took him a while to figure out that some of the sleeping worlds were from the past, and by then, he was already done with the Grid. |
| 129 | *** All that I only semi-believe. Some fans, myself included, say that Tron and Rinzler share a heart because they are one and the same (original and clone; kind of like [[spoiler: Ventus and Vanitas]]). Besides, if Rinzler didn't recognize Sora, why did he see Sora in his Space Paranoids armor for a moment? It's the Chain of Memories, people! |
| 130 | ** For a meta explanation, it's because originally Sora was intended to be returning to Space Paranoids, while Riku would be in the actual Grid. |
| 131 | *** Take another look at the cutscene. Sora looked 15 in his SP armor, and they've not released any drafts showing a 14-year-old Sora in that armor. So, it's more of Rinzler remembering Sora than just a meta shout-out. This won't be easy to agree on, but there's more connections between Space Paranoids and The Grid than we realize, people. Let's just hope that Space Paranoids will reappear in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsIII'', first, before we resume this topic. |
| 132 | * Can someone tell me exactly how time travel works in this game? From what I was able to understand, You can only travel back to a point in time where you existed at that time originally. Hence why Sora and Riku could travel back in time to Destiny Islands before it was swallowed by darkness, they were there originally. It's ALSO said that to travel in time, you must leave your body behind. Ok... then how were Riku and Sora physically there after they travelled through time? The same question applies to Young Xehanort, who was there at the time as well. |
| 133 | ** They didn't physically travel there. As far as I can tell, the time travel is more goign to the equivalent time in the Sleeping Worlds, not in the real world. Sora, Riku and Xehanort (as his Heartless) were at the real DI when it was destroyed, so they could time travel to the ''dream'' DI when ''it'' was destroyed. |
| 134 | ** Yen Sid's explanation suggests they did physically travel there; he transported them to a past version of DI ''just before'' it became a Sleeping World, and the Brown-Robe Ansem that appeared at the beginning of 3D is the same person from the first game and not someone who was time travelling with Young Xehanort. To answer the original question, Yen Sid's method is different from Xehanort's method since they didn't forget what happened during their brief time in past DI, and they don't need to give up their bodies. They only share the rule that they can only travel to points in time where a version of them existed. As for how Young Xehanort was able to travel through time without giving up his body, the [[NoExportForYou Ultimania]] clarifies that once one attains the power of time travel by reducing oneself into a Heart, the power can be passed onto others without them needing to do the same, which what happened to Young Xehanort as Brown-Robed Ansem shared that power with him. [[labelnote:note]]Vaguely implied in-game by Young Xehanort saying that Ansem "first sent him on his way"[[/labelnote]] He was able to reach the Sleeping Destiny Islands because Brown-Robed Ansem deliberately placed himself there. |
| 135 | * Technically, Sora and Riku didn't travel there, the dream versions of themselves did, so they where not in their physical bodies when they travelled through time. |
| 136 | ** Yen Sid freaks out over the fact that Xehanort would be able to travel back in time to Destiny islands. So did the dream versions of sora and Riku ravel back in time? And again, what about Young Xehanort? How can he travel without leaving his body behind? |
| 137 | *** [[FridgeLogic Because Xehanort already cast off his body as Ansem SoD]] |
| 138 | *** I think since Sora, Riku and Young Xehanort were in the dream world... time travel rules didn't apply. We all know dreams can change from moment to moment, with a simple thought. They may have simply traveled from world to world in the dream version, made to seem like the past versions on purpose. Sora and Riku were there to train, while Young Xehanort was simply crashing the party... so if I'm looking at this right, there's no time travel Fridge Logic in the first place. |
| 139 | *** They do travel back in time. [[spoiler: The last world, the World that Never Was, exists in the waking world, not the realm of sleep.]] It's a kind of possession if you will. Your conscious mind leaves your body in the present and travels into the past to inhabit your past body. It's stated to be a StableTimeLoop because you can't change the events of history. When in the past, events play out in real time, you can't jump say three hours forward or back after the first jump. And finally, when you return to your time, your past self forgets everything that happened from the time traveling. |
| 140 | *** Young Xehanort did give up his body to time travel, although he took a form similar to his complete self. Its comprable to Sora in KH1 when Kairi restores his form and becomes a walking heart. |
| 141 | * How did Sora and Riku get into the realm of sleep? |
| 142 | ** Yen Sid sent them there with his magic. |
| 143 | ** There is no special realm for Sleeping Worlds (They're all in the Realm of Light, but they're enclosed in sleep). Yen Sid sent Sora and Riku into the past of Destiny Islands, just before it fell into darkness and became a Sleeping World, which allowed Sora and Riku access to the Sleeping Worlds in the present. |
| 144 | * Okay, something that makes me scratch my head a bit, when a Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, the original person is restored, right? But it was Xehanort in Terra's body that got turned into a nobody and a heartless, so shouldn't Terranort have been the one reformed, not Master Xehanort? |
| 145 | ** My guess is, because both Terra and Xehanort were in Terranort, both of them were split among AnsemSOD and Xemnas... and thus when destroyed, both of their original bodies were restored (Master Xehanort and Terra, though we have yet to see the later). Terranort was essentially a combined version of Terra and MX in the first place, so he's probably gone for good... but that's just my theory. |
| 146 | *** Terra, as Terranort, is probably one of the members of the new Organization, or more likely it's leader now that both of the [=VAs=] for old Xehanort are dead. |
| 147 | *** Well, there's the fact that Xemnas grew a heart. So when he was defeated, its possible that Xemnas' Heart now controls Terra's Heart. |
| 148 | *** When was this? Xemnas didn't grow a heart. |
| 149 | *** And isn't Terra's protected by Eraqus's anyway? |
| 150 | * A lot of cutscenes just feel...odd. I mean the ones where Sora/Riku runs off with a guest character who says they'll help out. In one of the console games, this would be a painfully obvious setup to your new party member, but it's just weird in this game. |
| 151 | ** Well do your really want Neku or Shiki stealling the spot light from the Main Character, Or any other guest character? |
| 152 | ** It's preferable to the characters saying they'll help and then disappearing as soon as the cutscene's over. Besides, they wouldn't be stealing the spotlight. Does Aladdin steal the spotlight when he wants to help? No, he just joins the party. |
| 153 | * Young Xehanort comments about how Sora constantly revisits Traverse Town through memories, dreams, and digital data. The thing is, how did he know about the computer simulation in Recoded? I don't think Mickey or Maleficent told him about that. And even if he was able to learn about it, the latter comment doesn't make sense since Sora never really connected with Data-Sora. |
| 154 | ** I can't think of any other reason for Xehanort(s) to know about ''Re:coded'' besides that [[http://www.khwiki.net/File:Searching_for_the_Lamp_01_KHD.png they were possibly tracking Pete.]] As for connecting with Data-Sora, [[AWizardDidIt love and friendship mean anything is possible]]--Rinzler was reacting to Sora's memories despite the fact that Sora interacted with a bootleg copy of him. |
| 155 | ** I think data-entries of Ansem count as a version of Xehanort. |
| 156 | * Okay, maybe this one's been answered already, but WHY does Riku's eye color keep changing? In the first game, they were the same blue as Sora's. Then they changed to green for Kingdom Hearts 2, Re:Coded, and (possibly, my memory's a bit foggy) Chain of Memories. Alright, fine, so they didn't like his eye color, whatever. But then in 3D, suddenly his eyes are not only blue again, but a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT shade of blue than they were in the first game. I thought it might be a story-related thing (like, I don't know, Darkness changes eye-color or something), except that there's no evidence of that anywhere else. Besides, as far as I remember, the three aforementioned games had Riku's eyes retconned to green in any flashbacks. It's just...why? Consistency, people! |
| 157 | ** Well, looking at the renders provided on [[Characters/KingdomHeartsRiku Riku's Character page]] his eye-color is always a nice electric-blue/teal/aquamarine/green-blue color, so this Troper has no clue what you're talking about. |
| 158 | ** I don't think this is true. Look closely between Riku's KH and [=KH2=] art, and in both games... their eyes are the EXACT same shade. Sure, it's hard to tell if it's green/blue/teal/aquamarine/whatever, but it is the same shade. |
| 159 | * So, the worlds in the scoresheets in the Mysterious Tower were also destroyed by the Heartless? |
| 160 | ** This seems to be the case. It's the only ostensible difference between Symphony of Sorcery and the Mysterious Tower. Maybe it'll become the new Hundred-Acre Wood? But better. |
| 161 | ** The Mysterious Tower was part of Twilight Town in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'' - maybe it's capable of moving between worlds (and being its own world) whenever Yen Sid pleases, and the heart of Symphony of Sorcery - originally consisting of just the musical realm - liked the Tower enough that it added it to its dreams, the same way the other worlds did with their own native residents? |
| 162 | ** No, the worlds in the music weren't real places. They were imaginary landscapes inspired by the music, or dreams within a dream. [[spoiler:within another dream, when you're playing Riku. Tetsuya must have watched Inception and thought no one would notice]] Yen Sid probably put the sheets of paper in his cupboard, and they cease to be real worlds when not being opened up and listened to. Besides, the heartless don't dream and can't get in. Hearts being needed to remember and feel and imagine and all that. |
| 163 | * Why does Traverse Town have two Sleeping Keyholes? Are they the same Keyhole that just appeared in two different places when needed? Or does Destiny Island's Keyhole not count since it was only used as a passageway to the Sleeping Worlds and that the Destiny Islands was already restored? |
| 164 | ** Traverse Town is split into two separate planes. A full explanation for the split is never given, but I would assume that they're two halves of the same keyhole. I think Destiny Islands actually does count, since Sora and Riku both think that they should be awake upon arriving in the World That Never Was (counting Destiny Islands, TWTNW would be the eighth world). |
| 165 | ** I don't think the Keyhole was split into two nor is Destiny Island's Keyhole one of the seven, since it wasn't sleeping yet, that was in the past and it was one of the worlds that awakened automatically at the end of the first game. So, probably, Traverse Town was just locked out by two Sleeping Keyholes. And Sora could've been counting how many Sleeping Keyholes he had unlocked already. |
| 166 | *** I think the split was indirectly explained at TWTNW; [[spoiler: One side is the actual Sleeping World, while the other was Sora's dream of that Sleeping World]]. |
| 167 | ** To clarify the Keyholes, the seven that Yen Sid kept talking about were: La Cité des Cloches, The Grid, Prankster's Paradise, Country of the Musketeers, Symphony of Sorcery, Traverse Town, and within Sora's Dive to the Heart. The Destiny Islands one just gave them access to the Sleeping Worlds [[spoiler:(well, for Sora; for Riku, it gave him access to Sora's dreams)]]. Of course, the questions that arise from this are: why did both Sora and Riku have to lock a Keyhole from their side? Were they split in two for the two versions they went to? Does Riku's even count, considering the above spoiler? If so, why did they have to lock the Traverse Town one twice each? And what about that last one, that was only locked once by Riku? |
| 168 | * As I understand it, you can only reach a dream world via time traveling to a sleeping world that a past version of yourself existed in - hence the Xehanort group, sora, and riku being able to travel to destiny Islands. But when Mickey declares he wants to help, Yen Sid explains that he cannot enter the dream worlds because he has no such pre existing self. But there are TWO sleeping worlds that feature mickey's past self. Why couldn't he travel into those worlds? |
| 169 | ** Those versions of Mickey are just part of the worlds dreams same as how it's explained that Pinocchio and Jiminy are in pranksters paradise. |
| 170 | ** Its also not that you need to go to the past where the world started dreaming to reach the Sleeping Worlds, but to go into a dream that links to them. The reason why they went back in time to the beginning of Destiny Island's dream is because that dream and the Sleeping Worlds have one thing in common: both depict worlds swallowed by the darkness. |
| 171 | * Why are Xehanort and his new Org. 13 hanging out in the present? The castle that never was makes a good base I guess, but they only need to gather the 20 pieces of the X-Blade. They can clearly travel to any point in time that they already existed, so why not just run off to some time in the past where all of them and sora could go to (Destiny Islands, traverse town.) where they could convert sora without interruption. (The heroes wouldn't know where to look)Then pop into hollow bastion from KH and use the princesses of heart to complete the 20? Is Xehanort just juggling the idiot ball? |
| 172 | ** Didn't Riku go directly from Sora's dreams to Where Nothing Gathers? If Sora and Riku are together, there's no way for Xehanort to prevent Riku from showing up, and Mickey and the rest probably followed him. |
| 173 | ** One of the restrictions of Time Travel in this game is that once you reach the first destination, you can only go forward into time if one chooses to continue to time travel. And since all the 13 vessels of Darkness have at least been displaced once, they cannot go back to the past anymore. |
| 174 | ** Another restriction to time travel here is that you cannot alter past events. |
| 175 | * Okay, The World That Never Was isn't a sleeping world, but rather genuinely intact. But didn't Xemnas destroy The World That Never Was during his battle with Sora and Riku? Yes, it's a Nobody of worlds, but how exactly is it still intact? |
| 176 | ** Riku and Sora simply assumed they were in the real world because they had already unlocked seven keyholes. However, references to Sora experiencing a [[DreamWithinADream dream WITHIN another dream]] and the fact that Sora and Riku were still in their new outfits mean that they were probably still in the sleeping realm. |
| 177 | *** Okay, let me correct myself. [[KudzuPlot Come on, Nomura...]] Okay, the World That Never Was is intact basically because of [[HandWave lol inbetween realm]]; the same goes for Traverse Town looking different. [[http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/post/22892545601/dream-drop-distance-ultimania-scenario-mysteries Basically, Nomura is for some reason NOT falling on "it's a dream" as an explanation for anything]] (you know, the one HandWave that would actually make sense with the established setting). |
| 178 | *** Although Riku visited Sora's dream of The World That Never Was, and shortly after arriving, Sora got trapped within that same dream while dreaming of The World That Never Was. |
| 179 | *** If I can piece things together correctly, [[spoiler: TWTNW that was visited was a portal into the real TWTNW, which Sora visited at the beginning, and Riku visited at the end. When Young Xehanort grabbed Sora after the Xigbar encounter, he and Riku were thrown into an illusionary dream version of TWTNW, which was made to lock Sora inside his own mind and throw Riku out at the same time. It worked for the former, but Riku managed to weaken the hold for that by destroying the Anti-Sora Nightmare, and then foiled the latter by beating up Ansem SoD. That prompted Young Xehanort to have to do the job himself once Riku entered the real world, and when that failed, they just decided to let him be audience to Sora's possession by Xehanort, since there were 10 other powerful jerks in the same room along with Master Xehanort himself. After the chain of events that happened in there, Riku, Mickey, Axel, Donald and Goofy flew off to Yen Sid with an unconscious Sora in tow, which led to the ending.]] |
| 180 | * In the endings, did Sora return to dreaming Traverse Town, or did the Dream Eaters come into the real world? |
| 181 | ** I thought Traverse Town is manifested only when someone needs refuge, and Sora's Dream ended leaving the Dream Eaters without a home, ergo they appear in the real Traverse Town as refugees. That was my interpretation of it, anyways. |
| 182 | ** Traverse Town, due to the unstable In-Between Realm, changes its nature to accomodate those who need refuge, like how before the first game, Dark Corridors linking to worlds about to be destroyed constantly opened to let survivors in (Though this was mentioned only in a report in [=KH2=]). Before 3D, Traverse Town went into sleep to house the salvaged dreams of Joshua's friends and was locked by two Sleeping Keyholes. During 3D, Riku [[spoiler:(and Riku only)]] opened these keyholes to make Traverse Town awake again. Then, once the final Sleeping Keyhole was unlocked, the Dream Eaters had nowhere to stay. In response to that, Traverse Town fell into sleep again to accomodate them. |
| 183 | ** Maybe [[SugarWiki/HeartwarmingMoments Sora went back to the Sleeping Worlds to say goodbye to them?]] |
| 184 | * [[spoiler: We all know that Ventus safeguarded Sora's heart in his armor but the armor then got overtaken by the darkness. Wouldn't that mean that Riku basically fought Vanitas for Sora's heart?]] |
| 185 | ** A good thought, but Vanitas was completely destroyed in his battle with Ven (that's how his heart got shattered in the first place). No part of Vanitas or the Unversed remain, [[spoiler: so Ven's armor being overcome by darkness is an entirely different being]], not Vanitas. |
| 186 | *** The above is true, however, judging by the "your heart is a prison, even if you're not the prisoner" scene, Vanitas still exists, albeit trapped in Sora's heart somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if Vanitas came back in a future game. |
| 187 | *** [[spoiler: Vanitas coming back? Are you kidding? He was killed in physical form by Aqua and killed in consciousness by Ven, which is why he's in a coma to begin with. He should be as dead as Repliku!]] Anyways, [[spoiler: I imagine that since Sora protected Ven's heart from being destroyed after the events of BBS, Ven returned the favor by protecting Sora's consciousness from darkness within the pit of nightmarish sleep Xehanort put him in.]] |
| 188 | *** Well we did see Vanitas in the game. If that isn't ForeShadowing I don't know what is. and Vanitas is the manifestation of Ventus' darkness, right? Well Ventus has been rebuilding his heart within Sora all this time. This is just a theory but [[WildMassGuessing what if he received Sora's darkness with his light and it then became his darkness. And when Ven received darkness, it took shape as Vanitas?]] It's very much possible that he exists within Sora's heart in some way, and Xehanort [[spoiler: would definitely be interested in recruiting him for the new Organization, if he hasn't already.]] |
| 189 | *** Excuse me but didn't any one else notice that in order for Ven to be restored,Vanitas probably has to come back? I mean the whole reason Ven is currently asleep is because he destroyed half of his heart and the only reason he was even functioning in Bith By Sleep was because of his connection to Sora. Now Sora is a good kid but he can't be expected to share a heart with Ven forever(although knowing him,he probably would)so therefore I always figured that Vanitas would come back and the heroes would find some way to restore Ven's heart to the way it was before Master X messed with it(how they would accomplish this I don't know). And yes Vanitas was destroyed but I figured it was only his physical form that perished and his spirit or essence or whatever somehow survived,either within Sora or the dark relm. |
| 190 | * Where are the complete selves of Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene? |
| 191 | ** They should regenerate wherever they originally split into Heartless and Nobodies, which isn't necessarily the Radiant Garden (although, as characters, they would fit in there). |
| 192 | ** Maybe they're [[spoiler: part of the true Orgy XIII. Just because Xaldin, Vexen, Lexeaus, Zexion and Axel got thrown out doesn't mean they should. Counting Xemnas, Ansem SoD, Young Xehanort, Repliku(?), Xigbar, Saix, and Master Xehanort, there's still 5 slots left to fill for the 12 slots that weren't Sora. On that note, he'll still need someone to fill in Sora's role, which makes 6]]. |
| 193 | ** They weren't even confirmed to have regenerated. They were the newest members of the organization not counting Roxas. So chances are their heartless might just still be out there not having been defeated yet. |
| 194 | * Just why are some of the Xehanort incarnations that Sora meets so cryptic? Why can't they just tell him that [[spoiler: he's holding Ven's heart]] instead of being all "you're a host, etc."?' |
| 195 | ** This is Xehanort we're talking about. From the very first hour of the very first game, the most consistent thing about Xehanort and his incarnations is that they pretty much get off on being needlessly cryptic. |
| 196 | *** It's a theme of RPG antagonists to be as cryptic and mysterious as possible before they start being seen doing anything. Besides, I'm confused as it is with [[spoiler: Vanitas popping up next to Garland-nort]]. |
| 197 | *** The apparition of Vanitas is the result of Ventus' heart reacting to Xehanort's darkness. |
| 198 | * If the "Country of the Musketeers" takes place before Mickey became a Keyblade Master, why does the present Pete lack a peg-leg like his Musketeer/King self had in that world? |
| 199 | ** Maybe he got a new one via magic healing later? |
| 200 | ** The Country of the Musketeers isn't actually Mickey's past. During the game he tells Sora that he, too, is an offworlder. Presumably there are weird alternate versions of various Disney worlds. |
| 201 | ** It most probably is. As for Pete, he replaced it with a wooden leg? |
| 202 | ** Captain Pete has to be an alternate-universe Pete. If Captain Pete was the same Pete from Mickey's homeworld one of them probably would have said something or acknowleded the other in some way, but neither King Mickey or Captain Pete seem to know eachother. Also, its doubtful Mickey would still have let Pete hang around his world if he had caught him doing something this overtly villanous in another world. Finally, aside from the obvious peg-leg issue, Captain Pete also has a slightly different character design, and arguably looks a bit older than the other Pete. Obviously his apperance is mostly to keep in line with the design from the 3 Musketeers film (the peg-leg, the purple-ish eye-lids), but it still also destinguishes the two (and unlike worlds like The Grid or Pridelands, there's not any real reason why Pete's physical apperance would have changed because of entering the musketeer world.) |
| 203 | * Is it me, or has Xehanort started becoming a God Mode Villain Sue lately, due to powers of time travel and knowing what's going to happen in the future, and even getting poor Sora to fail the exam. |
| 204 | ** Dream Drop Distance was basically a prologue for 3, in much the same way that Chain of Memories was a prologue for 2. Introduce new group of bad guys while leaving most of them anonymous, possibly take out a couple, damage Sora tremendously leaving him in need of healing back up to level 1 between games, during which time the villains will have near-free reign to do bad stuff for Sora to go around dismantling, fixing, and inadvertently carrying out the plans of until the last minute in 3. |
| 205 | *** For god's sake, do the words "THIS LEADS TO KINGDOM HEARTS III" mean anything to you? That was obvious for the beginning. And "take out a few"? Hah! This entire game was basically a parallel to Yen Sid's briefing at the beginning of II and Xemnas popping up in the first visit to Hollow Bastion right after: A summary of the villain's plans for the installment. There were no deaths, all it did was bring Ansem SoD and Xemnas back to life and bring [[spoiler: a KH version of Garland]] into the picture. And we can be sure that Nomura will continue to be an asshole to coherence moreso in III. To quote Music/TheBeatles, "TheWalrusWasPaul!" |
| 206 | * I haven't played Re:Coded yet, but could someone tell me why Mickey won't let Maleficent get access to the data worlds? I mean, it's not like she's going to conquer the REAL things, is she? |
| 207 | ** The ones in the computer are real enough in and of themselves; Re:Coded makes a plot point of the fact that Data Sora has a heart of his own separate from Sora's, strong enough to generate his own Keyblade. |
| 208 | ** Maybe she was going to try and make a replica of the KH verse and rule over that. She ''has'' [[VillainDecay degraded]] quite a bit, remember. Besides, the only reason she appeared in this game was to [[TheWorfEffect establish Axel as a clear-cut protagonist]]. |
| 209 | ** Also it would give her a 100% accurate simulation with which to test her future plans, which could really come back to bite them later. |
| 210 | * [[spoiler: Young Xehanort states that one of the rules of time travel dictate that in order to travel back through time, another version of you has to be present at the destination. So how was he able to visit the Land of Departure in ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep''?]] |
| 211 | ** [[spoiler: perhaps he meant they had to have been there at one point? after all, Master Xehanort was there twice in Birth By Sleep, other than that, I assume he used Terra-nort to get to Radiant Garden first and then just teleport himself to the land of departure as soon as one of the trio got there, to probably test them.]] |
| 212 | ** [[spoiler: Maybe Young Xehanort met his older self before/during Terra's fight with Eraqus, then just chose to stay behind after his older self left during The Land of Departure's destruction. It would partially explain the reason why Master Xehanort showed up out of nowhere after Eraqus' defeat, at least from a story board perspective. Though this is just a WMG.]] |
| 213 | * Is Old!Master Xehanort [[spoiler:actually still Terranort, just many decades older]]? [[spoiler:Young Xehanort]]'s dialogue seems to me to indicate this. And if so, where did [[spoiler:Xehanort's original body before he ever possessed Terra]] go? |
| 214 | ** I believe general consensus is that Old Xehanort is [[spoiler: himself once more, and that Terra is either missing in action, or Terranort is one of the cloaked 13]]. |
| 215 | * Maybe I missed this and it could easily be explained next game but why is [[spoiler: Saix]] part of the new organization? Since [[spoiler: his nobody died in KHII shouldn't he have come back to normal free of Xehanort's influence? I can buy Xigbar still being there since he was partially possessed by Xehanort before becoming a nobody and was kind of a douche before then anyway, but if Isa came back with his heart intact why would he have willingly gone back to Xehanort and why would he still be corrupted by him?]] |
| 216 | ** [[spoiler:Saix was TheDragon to Xemnas for a while, and Axel did notice he changed. It's not obvious, but he may have been chosen as a Nort offscreen.]] |
| 217 | ** [[spoiler:Axel noticing that Saix had changed was a very strong point (you can tell that there was a very big shift in personality when you look at Isa during BBS and compare it to Saix). Also, comparing pre-Nobody Isa and his Nobody during KHII, Isa/Saix had gained yellow eyes and pointy ears, too. It was a previously held consensus that yellow eyes and pointy ears were a symptom of taken by the darkness, as seen in Braig/Xigbar, Xehanort and all his spawn, and Saix, but now we know that it is, instead, a symptom of being taken by Xehanort.]] |
| 218 | ** [[spoiler:I think the answer is simply that Saix was "overwritten" by Xehanort's heart prior to being destroyed in KHII by Sora, and he remained a Xehanort clone even after being returned to a normal human. Its obvious from the events in the game that Braig and Isa were taken by Young Xehanort from Radiant Gardens after they returned there, which is why Axel and the others are searching for them after having woken up.]] |
| 219 | *** [[spoiler: Why did Saix have Axel kill Zexion then? Saix gave Axel the order after he was clearly showing the signs of possesion with the yellow eyes, paler hair, and the Recusant's Sigil shaped scar on his face. The old explaination was that Zexion was suppossedly in a postion to take Saix's postiton as Xemnas's second in command which made sense before, considering Zexion's loyalty to the organization and how Ienzo was the one who got Ansem to make the lab for the heart experiments, but Zexion doesn't have any of Xehanort's visable traits. Was Saix just being paranoid and Xemnas simply didn't notice or care that [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Saix had one of Xehanort's possible vessals destroyed over something so petty?]]]] |
| 220 | *** [[spoiler: As Saix himself put it very bluntly: "He knows too much". What Zexion might've known is pretty much the mystery here, although with the revelation about nobodies being able to grow replacement hearts, I wouldn't be too surprised if ''that'' was what Zexion knew then. [[WildMassGuessing Maybe Saix had to take him off the picture, so that no one would ever know about the revelation and everyone would be kept in the dark.]]]] |
| 221 | * If Sora and Riku both unlocked all their Sleeping Keyholes, [[spoiler:why was only Riku given the Mark of Mastery? I could understand if he got some special honor above and beyond just the Mark because of his saving Sora as well, but Sora completed the test too.]] |
| 222 | ** That's exactly why [[spoiler:only Riku got the [=MoM=].]] Yen Sid says so. |
| 223 | ** [[spoiler: Sora 'didn't' complete his test. He never unlocked the final world (The World That Never Was). Even if it wasn't his fault because Xehanort messed with him, Sora, in the end, did give way to darkness, if even just a little bit, whereas Riku, after all his CharacterDevelopment, became strong and resistant against the evils of the darkness. Plus, Yen Sid stated that they were a hurry, and named Riku as Master first. Sora probably isn't that much of a long way off.]] |
| 224 | ** [[spoiler: TWTNW wasn't one of the Sleeping Worlds that needed to be restored. Sora, and by extension Riku, were led there as part of Xehanort's trap. The worlds they ''did'' restore were the 6 you play through prior to TWTNW, and Destiny Islands just as it fell to sleep.]] |
| 225 | *** [[spoiler: They didn't restore Destiny Islands. It was one of the destroyed worlds that awakened at the END of the first game. The Sleeping Keyhole that appeared when it was near its destruction was merely a passageway to the Sleeping Worlds. This was somewhat proven by Destiny Islands being awake by DDD's time while the Six Sleeping Worlds were still sleeping at the same time.]] |
| 226 | ** Sora failed by not completing the test. Yes, Xehanort screwed with it but if you want to get technical Sora didn't complete the established objectives. The instructions Sora and Riku were given for the Mark of Mastery Exam were to enter the Sleeping Worlds, unlock the seven Keyholes and get back out, having obtained a new power (it wasn't clear whether obtaining said power was a reward for completing the exam or a byproduct of completing it). While Sora got through the Sleeping Worlds and unlocked the 6 of 7 Keyholes, he didn't get that last Keyhole because of Xehanort's interference AND he couldn't get out on his own and got stuck. Riku ended up have to go and rescue him. Riku, on the other hand, managed to complete all the objectives (Sleeping Worlds, 7 Keyholes, get out), and therefore completed the exam. The reason Riku was chosen to rescue Sora is because he [[spoiler: accidentally turned himself into a Dream Eater and did his Mark of Mastery Exam in Sora's dreams]] making him the most capable of navigating them to retrieve Sora. |
| 227 | * [[spoiler: How do Ansem and Xemnas cope knowing they're going to be [[TimeTravelTenseTrouble killed/have been killed]] by Sora and Riku?]] |
| 228 | ** [[spoiler: Quite well, since they know that all that does is restore their True Form as Master Xehanort (and possibly Terra but who knows). And they probably lose the knowledge when they're returned to their own time, just like Young Xehanort.]] |
| 229 | * Not sure if this was mentioned before, but [[spoiler:if someone must leave behind his or her body to go back in time and must have some version of that person waiting at the destination]], what's the deal with [[spoiler:the time travel in [[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII Timeless River]]?]] |
| 230 | ** I'm pretty sure Timeless River was stated to not be true time travel, but a reflection of the past or something else incomprehensibly handwavy. |
| 231 | ** Said time travel method was conjured up by Merlin, who is a powerful wizard. For all we know, he could be the only one who knows how to do that variation, not that matters, since it follows two of the "Time Travel by becoming a heart" rules: You cannot change what was going to happen (Sora, Donald and Goofy's interference led to Mickey's future) and you can only go forward in time after the first destination (Once they arrived in Timeless River, they could only experience the rest in real time. Leaving and going back through the door would drop them to when they left) |
| 232 | ** Another possible explanation is that Timeless River really was another world existing in the present. Merlin did say it was a "special" world, when saying it was the past would've been much more indicative. If so, then it would just mean Timeless River is separate world representing Disney Castle's past and changing things in the former would affect things in the latter. |
| 233 | *** Expanding on the above, perhaps it's a Sleeping World, dreaming of Disney Town's past? Maybe a chunk of the world broke off, bringing a piece of the World's heart (the fragment containing the memories of that particular era), and it went to sleep because it's not a complete world. Merlin's magic has been known to get around world barriers that are supposedly impenetrable (Scrooge [=McDuck=] in BBS). And, since it contains a piece of Disney Town's heart, what happens in it could affect Disney Town in a more... psychological sense. After all, the theft of the Cornerstone of Light in the Timeless River didn't cause it to disappear in the present at the castle (which would violate the rule of "you can't change past events"), it instead caused a huge amount of vines to appear and dulled the protective abilities of the Cornerstone. In other words, the Nocebo Effect applied to an entire world; the Cornerstone was fine, the world just believed it was in big trouble because a piece of its heart dreamed of its theft. As for how the Heartless are in a Sleeping World, they got in through the same door Pete did. This could also explain the old "Present!Pete has KH design and meets Retro!Pete, yet there's no Retro!Donald and Retro!Goofy running around, and Present!Donald and Present!Goofy have their Retro designs" conundrum: the world chunk remembers what Donald and Goofy looked like, but has no specific memories of the things they did, so when the Present versions of them show up, the world dreams them to look like how it remembers them. But it does have specific memories of Pete, so when a second Pete shows up, it rolls with it and doesn't alter Present!Pete's appearance. |
| 234 | * So... apparently no one told Yen Sid that Riku spent some time possessed by Ansem? Because he sounds surprised to learn this fact. |
| 235 | ** Given that he also didn't know that Xehanort spent most of the first Kingdom Hearts disembodied, its a fairly safe bet that he never got anything more than a very, very rough outline of events. Why isn't clear; its possible they're just all really, really bad at assessing what's important information, and Yen Sid didn't debrief them sufficiently if at all. |
| 236 | *** Plus this game is the first time Riku ever met Yen Sid. Riku and Mickey must've just summed up his experiences as something like "He got possessed by evil, but now he's mostly better". I just wanna know how the hell Ansem SoD is alive after getting beaten up in [=CoM=] and then being purged by the KH Encoder backlash at the end of II. |
| 237 | *** Ansem is alive because [[spoiler: Young Xehanort pulled him out through TimeTravel. To be more precise, he's from a time where he hasn't died yet. However, this act did not save him from his "death"; as per the rules of time travel, he has to go back to his own time eventually and history can't be changed either to avert his death as it is destined to happen. Master Xehanort successfully reforming at the end of 3D proves that.]] |
| 238 | * Okay, so I get that Riku's [[spoiler:actually in Sora's dreams the entire time]]. What I '''don't''' get is how, in Country of the Musketeer, he managed to [[spoiler:save the heroes from the falling block when he wasn't in the same actual world]], and in Symphony of Sorcery, he [[spoiler:saves the other score's mini-world and gives its power to Sora]]. Basically, [[spoiler:how does Riku interact with Sora's reality--the outside world--when he's trapped inside Sora the whole damn time]]? Am I misunderstanding the way the dream thing works here? (Because I recall a Portal in [[spoiler:Riku's TWTNW]]....) |
| 239 | ** I think what was happening was that Riku's interference was enough to cause things happening in one world to change things in the other. Think about Traverse Town, there were two but that doesn't make Sora's dream any less of a world of its own. The TWEWY characters are able to travel between them showing that the two world while different are linked. So basically, Riku's attempt to change things in Sora's dreams resonate with the World's Dream. Like notice how in the Musketeer World the box disappears rather than simply getting stuck. Consider Reality Shifts and the like it seems dreams can be interacted with on more than a physical level. |
| 240 | ** I just think Nomura wrote himself into a rut this time. Or perhaps Riku was just ''linked'' to Sora's mind this whole time, and not actually inside it, which explains how they were in mostly the same place during Shibuya and the Mickey flashbacks. |
| 241 | ** Dreams are connected to each other; remember that Sora [[spoiler:falling asleep and dreaming up a Traverse Town]] managed to separate Neku and Rhyme from Shiki and Beat from the real one. It's not inexplicable Riku's actions in [[spoiler: Sora's dreams]] are affecting the [[spoiler: actual Sleeping Worlds the dreams are based on]]. |
| 242 | * Ok so maybe I missed something, but how can Xehanort exist alongside his Heartless and Nobody? I get that he's using time travel in TWTNW but his dialogue (and fan assumptions) indicate that the two of them are intended to be members of the new organization. However, as the end of that scene shows, he can't use time travel to assemble the Norts for very long (and Young!Xpehanort indicates he is done time traveling after the events of this game). So what, does Xehanort intend to gather his copies for three minutes to create the X-Blade and have them all fade away back to their time again afterward? |
| 243 | ** This is something that will probably be explained in the future. It's unknown what Xehanort is planning but [[TheChessmaster he certainly didn't look worried. He'll have something planned.]] |
| 244 | * What was with that scene of Riku saying [[spoiler:"I'll find you, Sora"]] after the final battle if he was just going to wake up absolutely fine in a few minutes? Wouldn't it have made more sense for [[spoiler:Sora to remain in a coma and go on his Dream Eater adventure without the waking world knowing]] given Riku's line? |
| 245 | ** How was Riku to know that? He's never done this before. I think you're slightly overanalysing a line that was meant to be heartwarming or meaningful. |
| 246 | * So...the Grid? I'm a little confused. When Sora runs into Young Xehanort in the Grid, he tells Sora "You think this is the world of dreams, but there you are mistaken. Data does not dream, cannot dream. This world is real." So does that mean that The Grid is NOT a sleeping world like the others? So if thats true how did Sora end up there, and why does he return to the sleeping worlds after leaving there? Does this mean the Country of Musketeers and Symphony of Sorcery are also not sleeping worlds? Or was Young Xehanort just totally screwing with Sora? |
| 247 | ** The Grid IS a sleeping world, but it doesn't dream because it is data. Everything that is happening in The Grid is real and not a dream imagining of events by the world itself. |
| 248 | ** I think I remember seeing somewhere that the Xehanorts were actually leading Sora along to wherever they wanted, so I guess there's the possibility that the Grid is indeed real. |
| 249 | ** I imagine that the Realm of Sleep also acts as a World Terminus for certain parts of the universe, which explains The Grid, and it also stores memories of events past, which explains the Musketeers and Fantasia worlds. |
| 250 | ** The underlying confusion, I think, is just what Young Xehanort meant by "this world is real", and just what importance this fact holds. This would imply that Space Paranoids, in contrast, isn't "real". Which would, in turn, imply that the Grid is not made out of data on a hard drive somewhere, but a real physical location that can be simply flown to. Taking into consideration the entire premise of the Tron franchise and Tron Legacy in particular, this is pretty damn nonsensical. Hell, just a few seconds before that, Xemnas tells Sora that the Grid was copied by Ansem the Wise and turned into Space Paranoids... so how the hell does that make any sense if the Grid isn't data? The exact nature of data in general in Kingdom Hearts isn't entirely clear to begin with, what with stuff like taking the munny purse out of Digital Twilight Town, the relationship between hearts, memories and data, and Re:coded... just kind of in general. It seems as though Nomura thought that data being able to dream didn't make sense, but in trying to fix it, created a VoodooShark instead. |
| 251 | ** Speaking of the Grid, what about Riku's version of it? If sora was in a sleeping world that doesn't "dream" (yet have dream eaters), and Riku was in a dream of a dream (because of Sora), wouldn't it meant that riku's version of The Grid was actually a real world too? or it could just be part of Sora's Dream? |
| 252 | * Can someone help explain the Realm of Sleep to me? I can understand the time travel and all, but just the Realm of Sleep itself is getting me confused. |
| 253 | ** Apparently, it's what would happen if someone made a [[Film/TheMatrix Matrix]] that could be accessed by Freddy Krueger: A world you can fall into through sleep, making absolutely no connection whatsoever to reality. It's how [[IRejectYourReality Flowmotion]] manages to exist, after all. Additionally, it could be influenced by the imaginations of the people inside it, which is how Joshua managed to turn Traverse Town into Shibuya, or why the stories for each world are mostly different through the two perspectives. It also seems to possess gateways into the past whenever StableTimeLoop seems applicable, allowing for the Disney's Three Musketeers movie to become a SelfInsertFic for Sora and Riku. As for The Grid, it just seems to be a portal inside the Realm of Sleep leading to the world Tron Legacy occurs in, judging by Xemnas' rant. And TWTNW was always pretty messed up to begin with, being an artificial world Xehanort created to act as a home base for his servants and a holding bay for his armies of Heartless and Nobodies. There just happened to be a gateway into it inside the Realm of Sleep. |
| 254 | ** There's no mention of a "Realm of Sleep" anywhere in the game, only the phrase "Sleeping Worlds". As far as I can tell, the Sleeping Worlds are located in the Realm of Light, but are asleep and all have a mega-barrier around them. So, there is no "Realm of Sleep". While I'm still scratching my head over exactly what the opening sequence at Destiny Islands was and what it meant, it seems as though whatever the hell they did there made them able to penetrate the mega-barriers around the worlds. The fact that they each have to do a separate dive for each individual world leads credence to this (although it doesn't explain why a Dive was necessary for The World That Never Was if it wasn't a Sleeping World... although this is likely just GameplayAndStorySegregation). |
| 255 | * How the hell did Sora and Riku even get into the Realm of Sleep? That never got explained at all IMO. |
| 256 | ** They were on Destiny Islands when it fell to darkness. Therefore they were able to travel back in time to the dream of its coma and wake it up. By unlocking the first keyhole, that opened the way into the other worlds. |
| 257 | ** But... how? How was Yen Sid able to do that without breaking the rules of KH time travel, introduced in this very game? Xehanort needed to be split into a Heartless and Nobody in order to time travel; seems like a lot of trouble in comparison. Not to mention that seemingly nobody outside of True Organization XIII knew about the time travel rules; even if Yen Sid knew them (I mean, how could he initiate time travel without knowing them?), why wouldn't he tell Sora and Riku? Seems like pretty critical information. And that doesn't explain Ursula, either; why the hell would she be in Destiny Islands circa Kingdom Hearts I? And where was Kairi in this supposed instance of time travel? And why would Destiny Islands have anything to do at all with the Sleeping Worlds in the first place? My understanding is that falling into darkness =/= falling into sleep. Sleep is only what happens when you, for some reason, don't get properly restored to light following a fall to darkness (0.2 proves this; if Castle of Dreams, Dwarf Woodlands, Enchanted Dominion and ''Destiny Islands'' were sleeping, how did Aqua get in to them, and why were they in various states of screwed up instead of dreaming?). Destiny Islands was restored properly after KH1, so what's with the Sleeping Keyhole? The whole intro to the game just doesn't add up on so many levels. |
| 258 | * Are we going to have to prepare for Repliku somehow being alive and a member of the True Orgy XIII? Because if so, I'm calling shenanigans on that one. |
| 259 | ** Let's not jump to conclusions until we have hard proof |
| 260 | ** The rather suspicious phrasing in the Chain of Memories chronicle is a possible indicator--it says that "the replica seemingly vanished" after his defeat. It seemed pretty unambiguous that he was destroyed at the time, so why change that now unless it's important? |
| 261 | *** That's what had me up in arms the most, to be honest. Not the Monstro reappearance, but the CoM rewrite is pretty solidly conmected to that. |
| 262 | ** It's not "somehow being alive" since it's pretty clearly established that, except for Master Xehanort, all the members of the True Organization are plucked from different points in time by Young Xehanort and brought to the present. |
| 263 | *** You do realize that Sora will have to fight Orgy XIII-2 in ''[=KH3=]'', so pointing that out will just branch off on a discussion on how Nomura will be able to write out paradoxes. And Replicas seem messed up IMO, since he'd be making a Replica of a Replica. Also, if he could use Replicas to begin with, that'd create another huge plothole, since Repliku is firmly established to have a heart. |
| 264 | * If the Cornerstone of Light was returned to its rightful place in Timeless River, then how did Maleficent invade Disney Castle and kidnap Minnie in this game? |
| 265 | ** Bad writing. |
| 266 | *** Or maybe the Cornerstone can only prevent Heartless and thorns. |
| 267 | *** If it was like that, then someone should've explained that fact back in KH2 instead of imply it like this. |
| 268 | *** Xehanort happened. When Mickey and co. left The Mysterious Tower, Yen Sid notes something was off about Maleficent attacking, before concluding the forces of Darkness in the KHverse has changed. That was what probably overrode the Cornerstone of Light's powers. |
| 269 | -->'''Yen Sid''': The timing is too perfect, too calculated. Maleficent must sense a change in the forces of darkness. A change...like Xehanort. |
| 270 | |
| 271 | * Why does Joshua randomly sprout angel wings? I haven't played The World Ends With You but from what I understand of the plot Joshua was secretly in charge or something in that game,is this connected to the angel wings? |
| 272 | ** '''Major spoilers for TWEWY''', as its story is heavily reliant on {{Wham Episode}}s, {{Wham Line}}s, and {{Player Punch}}es, but Josh's wings are a reference to the fact that [[spoiler: he's basically God (or at least a very powerful and high-ranking Angel), as far as Shibuya is concerned anyways. ''TWEWY'' players were given hints to this during the game, but it's spelled out by the end of the story, and expanded upon when collecting the post-game reports that flesh out the storyline and mythos of the ''TWEWY'' world.]] |
| 273 | |
| 274 | * Why is the Catle that Never Was back in Xehanort and the Organization's hands? Wasn't Maleficent going to take it over? Who was stopping her when all of the Organization members were dead? |
| 275 | ** She was too busy meddling with Data-Sora in KH: coded with Pete. As for why she hasn't done so near the beginning of 3D, she cares more about about obtaining the Datascape in Jiminy's Journal due to an unknown connection between that and the Book of Prophecies which was introduced in KH[chi]. |
| 276 | |
| 277 | * This is more of a game progression question. The cutscene gallery and certain events in both worlds imply that the story order you visit the worlds is Prankster's Paradise, then The Grid. But The Grid's enemy level is lower than Prankster's Paradise's, so most players would go to The Grid first. So why didn't they switch the enemy levels if they wanted players to visit Prankster's Paradise first? |
| 278 | ** Players are not obliged to progress by ascending world level, the choice is there if they want a challenge at that point of the game or not. As for the reports and theater, they're just showing the canon order of the worlds visited. |
| 279 | |
| 280 | * In the middle of the game, all the members of Organisation XIII that got turned into Nobodies in Hollow Bastion reappear there as real people, complete with the clothes they were presumably wearing when they were turned. However, Lea is still wearing the Organisation robe. Why? Shouldn't he too reappear in his Birth By Sleep appearance? |
| 281 | ** With the reveal of the secret ending in the 2.5 remix, apparently both Lea and Isa ''were'' wearing the organisation cloak when they were turned. Questions on ''why'' they were wearing the cloak aside, it seems that it's not a plot hole. Hopefully it will be elaborated upon in later games. |
| 282 | |
| 283 | * How did Sora fell into the darkness? To be more precise, what cause Sora to fall into the darkness? I know that it was MX's trap, but I just want to be clear about how it went. Is it safe to say this and Would that all make since? |
| 284 | |
| 285 | ** Basically, Xehanort and his group, during the test, led Sora to their base, while messing with his head about the power of the connections he had to his hearts and the hearts within him, just to wear him down, probably cause they knew that he had unstable control over it and planned to use that against him. Then once he's in the TWTNW, they trap Sora and put him into a deeper sleep, he is left at the mercy of his unstable power of friendship (Heart Resonance as someone called it) and forced deeper into sleep. When Riku was about to wake him up, they put him into a second, much deeper sleep. Even when he started to gained better control of his POF, it was too late as he was so deep in sleep that he was left vulnerable to the massive inner darkness in himself and the other hearts within him (like Data-Roxas said, pain can lead to darkness, and considering the pain Sora was in and anger at the organization, not only from his own pain made worse by witnessing and feeling the pain and suffering of others, but also the fact that the nobodies are real people with hearts and anger towards MX for lying to them about it for his own personal gain, but also at himself for believing that lie and not trying to figure out if it was true, the pain and anger-induced darkness in Sora had to be overwhelming even for him) since he never learned to balance himself like Riku did. Does this make sense to anyone? |
| 286 | |
| 287 | * There's something that I don't understand about Master Xehanort's plan in this 3D. He gathers the various aspects of himself from across time to become the True Organization and wants Sora to be the new Number XIII. Except that whether or not he succeeds, his various selves have to return to their own times (he disappears in the same manner which implies to me that he was time displaced too, most likely from before he possessed Terra), so unless he expected the Seven Princesses and the Seven Guardians to show up in that exact moment to begin the Second Keyblade War, this plan was never going to succeed. So unless he has back up vessels that are not time displaced, I don't see how his master plan can ever be completed. |
| 288 | ** True they returned to their own times at that moment, but there is the prospect of them all returning in the future, even if some have to take TheSlowPath depending on circumstances. As for needing them when it's time to forge the X-Blade, the conflict itself is what forges the X-Blade. It'll "start" whenever Xehanort launches his attack so there's no concern on that front. |
| 289 | ** I can understand about how the X-Blade comes about but some of the Xehanorts can't come back because, by the time of present day, they've either already been destroyed or they've already become future versions of themselves. In the case of Xigbar and Saix, they can easily be replaced by Braig and Isa. But the "main" Xehanorts can't come back because Young Xehanort had already become Master Xehanort, who had already become Terra-nort, who had already split into Ansem and Xemnas, who were already destroyed by Sora and Riku, and apparently have reformed, most likely into Terra-nort because if it's old Master Xehanort then that would defeat the point of possessing Terra in the first place(plus this gives Square Enix a way to have Master Xehanort without using his old self because both of his actors are dead). And they can't come back by time travel because the in-universe rules say that now that they've returned to their times they can't time travel again. |
| 290 | ** According to the ''3D Ultimania'', it's indeed the old Master Xehanort that's been reformed -- evidently, his old body was preserved TimeStandsStill-style (dat vanishing, tho) over the years. |
| 291 | * So, we find out in this game that all of Ansem's apprentices have been resurrected due to the destruction of their Heartless and Nobodies. This makes sense...but what doesn't make sense is why they are all resurrected at once. Vexen, Lexaeus and Zexion all died during Chain of Memories, almost a year before Xemnas, Xigbar, Xaldin, Saix and Axel. Why do they all come back at pretty much the same time? |
| 292 | ** I have a theory for this! Their Nobodies were destroyed, but I think their Hearts that their Heartless were carrying around had been trapped in the fake Kingdom Hearts that Xemnas was creating during KH2. All of the Organization member's hearts were trapped in it, and it isn't until Sora and Riku defeat Xemnas and destroy the fake Kingdom Hearts that their hearts were free to reunite with their bodies and make them whole again. They all come back at the same time because their hearts were freed at the same time. |
| 293 | * How exactly is there a dreaming version of Yen Sid's Tower for the Fantasia level when it's still in the Realm of Light? |
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