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1-->''New questions go at the bottom. Before adding a new question, please, see if it can be placed in one of the existing folders''.
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4* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS1E16And17Fury
5* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS1E18And19Legends
6* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS1E24To26TheSavageTime
7* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS2E7And8MaidOfHonor
8* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS2E11And12ABetterWorld
9* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS2E19And20Hereafter
10* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueS2E23ComfortAndJoy
11* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS2E3TheDoomsdaySanction
12* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS2E13Epilogue
13* Headscratchers/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS3E13Destroyer
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16[[folder:Injustice Gang are idiots]]
17* This has always bugged me immensely... In Injustice For All, when the assortment of villians capture Batman, why don't they take off his mask? Seriously, ''it makes no sense whatsover'' that Lex Luthor and the Joker (and a bunch of other supervillians) wouldn't want to know his identity. (Granted, the Joker wouldn't, but he enters the story much later then when they capture Batman, so there is plenty of time for them to do it before the Joker intrudes.) This goes as far as the Cheetah ''making out with him.'' Wouldn't she want to know who exactly she is kissing? I haven't watched it in a while, but did I miss some kind of explanation for this?
18** She knows exactly who she's kissing: Batman. Seriously, though, one of the first things Luthor tries to do is open up his Utility Belt, and you saw the defenses it has on that. He probably thinks the mask is similar. That said, for the record the Joker didn't come after they captured Bats. In fact, ''he's the one who helps them capture him''.
19*** I stand corrected on the Joker part. The Cheetah part is a moot point. But still, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsOp3akxj5w the cowl]] is shown no properties of defense. And, why wasn't that the first thing they tried instead of bothering with the belt? As soon as he crashed down on the table, any one of them would have tried to unmask him, using Grundy as bait.
20*** I saw recently in some episode that it ''does'' have some sort of defense, spraying someone with a gas when he tried to unmask the Bat. I mean, this is Batman we're talking about.
21*** So why didn't he even try it? And sure, the gas would knock out the guy pulling off the mask, but they could just try again, with gas masks. This is Lex Luthor and the Ultra-Humanite we're talking about, I'm sure if that if they didn't have a gas mask they could build one fairly quickly. Even if they couldn't obtain gas masks, they could still try again, as the cowl doesn't have an unlimited supply of it.
22*** You make it sound like the whole thing was done to unmask Batman, they had a plan and were plenty busy enough with it. Besides, everyone knows what happens when his identity ''is'' leaked, brain wipes for everyone!
23*** When has the JLA ever brainwashed people who know their identities? Also, while it may not have done just to get Batman, did none of them think, "Well, gee, know would be a great time to learn an extremely valuable secret about one of our greatest foes, a secret that could very well be used against him magnificently in the future?"
24*** What you are actually saying is that you have no memory of any time that a group of people who have access to highly advanced technology, mental powers, and magic and have demonstrated a willingness to go beyond legal constraints have chosen to mess with someone's memory. If you think about it, I'm sure you will see the potential problem with your reasoning.
25*** In that case, it bugs me that they also destroyed the episode footage containing those incidents. Especially since there was that one ''Superman'' episode where the guy figured out at the literal last second who Clark Kent was, and that episode went unscathed.
26*** They did it in the comics. Not that it's relevant here.
27** The answer is simple, none of the villains care who he is. They're there to kill the League, not blackmail them or pursue an ongoing vendetta, aside from Joker who top priority is killing him. Batman was to die right after the Watchtower blew up, if anyone cared they could look once he was dead.
28*** And I think the {{MST3KMantra}} can apply here as well
29*** Not unmasking the hero when you've got him captured is one of the big red polka dots on the VillainBall.
30** The best answer to your question can be found in ANOTHER JL EPISODE. Luthor swaps bodies with the Flash, and immediately rushes to the mirror to pull off his mask and learn Flash's secret identity! He triumphantly, silently stares at the reflection of Wally West for a minute ... and then says, "I have no idea who this guy is."
31*** Except that happens afterwards, so Luthor couldn't use that as an excuse, and Bruce Wayne is a ''world famous person'', that Luthor has ''met and dealt with personally for an extended period of time'' in the past.
32*** "The Great Brain Robbery" happening later actually makes it a better excuse; Luthor realized after the fact that he had missed an opportunity (what with the whole "Busy trying to kill Superman" and "Busy trying to kludge a way to keep my cancer from killing me" business distracting him), and resolved not to pass up a similar chance when he got it in the future. The point that Luthor would have recognized Bruce Wayne is irrelevant; he wasn't ''expecting'' Bruce Wayne to be Batman. None of the Injustice Gang had any reason to suspect they would recognize the guy behind the mask, or even care who Batman really was except Joker, who chose not to care. And finally, Batman is known as the DCU's resident {{Determinator}} and all around frightening bastard. Would they expect to be able to blackmail him, or would they expect the crazed loner with the privately owned stealth fighter might do something extreme to silence anyone who knows his secret?
33** As said, primary plan: Destroy league. Remove cowl and you lose at least one ally. Let's say that defense mechanism has multiple uses, or your villain group begins arguing over who is #2 if it does have a second defense mechanism. Let's say there isn't, and while #1 is knocked out for who knows how long the League comes. You are down one person. All the villains present could be said to fall into three groups: Those who are prioritizing the primary mission over discovering who Batman really is (secondary goal that would be pointless if first goal works), those who see Batman as a person who hides by taking off the mask (prefer not to know), and those who are just apathetic.
34[[/folder]]
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36[[folder:Secret Origins, Offscreen Get-togethers]]
37* After Hawkgirl's very first appearance ("Secret Origins, Part II"), Batman remarks, "Hawkgirl? What's she doing here?" Did those two meet at some prior point in the Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse, or are we to assume that Batman just knows about all the world's superheroes as part of his {{crazy prepared}}ness?
38** He's Batman. He can breathe in space. And while he was breathing in space he met her.
39** They met before in a very unremarkable incident.
40** Superheroes tend to be high profile in their exploits. Did you think Batman never picked up a paper once in awhile?
41** Superman and Green Lantern are on a first-name basis too (Superman calls him "John") even though the episode of ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'' with Green Lantern had Kyle Rayner instead. So, yeah, the assumption is it happened sometime offscreen.
42** Assuming that Batman is {{Crazy Prepared}} is a very, very safe bet.
43** Also, she ''has wings''. And an unsubtle demeanor. I'd say the better questions were: why didn't they ''all'' know who she was, and how was she such a competent spy?
44** Forget Hawkgirl -- what about Wonder Woman? "Who's the rookie with the tiara?" is GL's reaction to her -- not that anybody ever answers him. J'onn says that he telepathically summoned every hero he could find -- but Diana didn't exist as a hero yet -- she hadn't "stolen her armor" (Hippolyta's words) until this time, it seemed. Was her origin ever explained in any fashion at all?
45*** The timeline isn't exactly clear. She started getting suited up not long after the invasion. In any case, J'onn, who is in no way familiar with the planet, probably just scanned for a specific thought pattern (the wavelength for "do-gooder", as it were) and told everyone like that to come to their location.
46** Although it isn't specifically the case with this example, some of the DCAU comics "count" for continuity and some don't. So, for example, witness Batman knowing and working with Jason Blood before in TNBA - which had only happened in a Batman Adventures annual (co-plotted by series creators Bruce Timm and Glenn Murikami) at that point. Of course, Batman also first met * Superman* in a comic... but this was the mid-90s mullet-sporting Superman, complete with red-headed Lex Luthor II as an adversary. Best not to think too much about this type of stuff.
47*** You are ignoring a little thing called "World's Finest". Bats and Supes first met on a cruise ship pursuing a diamond thief. They tangled over Lois, and there was some bad reasoning to get Bats to do anything of importance. Forgettable, but the first meeting, none-the-less.
48*** Eh? The "World's Finest" episode I remember - from ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'' - was a rather excellent first meeting between Bats and Supes centred on the Joker offering to kill Superman for a tidy sum from Lex Luthor.
49*** The reference is to the comic book, "World's Finest," which was the Superman/Batman of the day. The story about the cruise ship was from Superman #76 titled "The Mightiest Team in the World." A different version of this story was done in Superman/Batman Annual #1.
50*** Would that count? He said ''DCAU'' comics...
51*** This troper recalls Bruce Timm stating that that while they wrote that episode with the comic with Jason Blood in mind, it doesn't necessarily makes it canon. So it must be that a story along the lines of that comic happened offscreen, not the exact comic.
52** Why in the name of every world in the Multiverse would you assume that Batman ''wouldn't'' either know or know of nearly every single superhero on the planet Earth?
53** In Universe, it's still an incredibly random, and small, assortment of heroes that answered the call. Especially when someone others (such as Vigilante) claimed to be active offscreen during the Thanagarian invasion, at least.
54*** Its probably assumed that all the heroes that could actually travel fast enough to heed the call were occupied in some way. Because even if Vigilante was active, unless he was within 100 miles of the military base, he wouldn't have made it in time on that motocycle.
55*** Still, Supergirl was already established as active in the DCAU via the Superman series. Even if she had been "occupied" during the initial invasion/conquest bit, you'd think she'd have cleared her schedule a bit when her "cousin"/big-brother figure Superman was captured. Not to mention you'd have to be a REALLY busy hero to not drop what you were doing and intervene there...you'd think an alien attempt to destroy the planet would be one of those events that even most VILLAINS would be opposed to(like they were to Darkseid's attempt at the same during the finale). Also, Superman and Supergirl are both faster than Wonder Woman. Considering she managed to get to the battle site clear from Themyscera, I doubt getting there in time would have been an issue for Supergirl either.
56*** Exactly, there was an invasion going on at the moment and don't you think that trying to evacuate civilians or fight off the 'War of the Worlds' style walkers might of occupied their time?
57** Forget the in-universe stuff for a sec. Okay, Batman and Superman had their own shows, and everyone in the Western hemisphere basically knew the basic idea behind each of them anyway. The Flash was introduced in Superman's series, though no origin or secret identity was ever given. A version of Green Lantern was also introduced, but a very different version, and no explanation for this GL is ever provided either. Either way, they're both well-known superheroes, but not as well known as Superman, Batman or many Marvel characters. We're given insight into Martian Manhunter's origin, fair enough, but Hawkgirl? I'm not sure how many people were aware of ComicBook/{{HawkMAN}}, let alone his wife, and neither are ever seen in Superman or Batman's series' (although a Hawkmanesque character is seen in ''Batman Beyond'')!!! BUT!!! the episode gives us Wonder Woman's origin inasmuch as it explains why she choses to help the heroes. Now, Wonder Woman's origin isn't as storied as Superman or Batman's, but still! Most people AT-LEAST knew who she was, inasmuch asa the name and costume would be familiar!
58*** And yes, I'm aware that during ''Legends'' (comics) she was reintroduced as if she was a wholly new character, but still!
59** You don't need to reveal the origin of a character right away, in Silver-Age style, at least not for all the characters in the cast. You can have a character jump to the action, and keep the audience wondering about his background for some time. The origin of Wolverine took DECADES to be revealed, Hawkgirl's origin in the animated series took just two seasons.
60* How did Batman survive the end of the second part of this episode? He was cornered, outgunned, severely outnumbered and he basically did surrender. J'onn's explanation in the next episode actually explains nothing.
61[[/folder]]
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63[[folder:Flash's magic punch]]
64* How exactly did Flash punching the Brainiac out of Luthor work? I guess you have to assume that, rather than "truly becoming one", all that happened was Luthor was wearing Brainiac like a suit...except that would mean that Brainiac used the Dark Heart to pull himself out of Luthor's innards and restore them to exactly the way they were prior to "becoming one", which is rather the opposite of what "becoming one" means, I would think. I still really can't think of any reason besides RuleOfCool--which must suffice at times--that just running around the planet and punching a dude would be enough to separate them, given how completely. There are a lot of things that bug me about that particular revelation, but that's the biggest one; the other thing is, how far are we supposed to take Brainiac's "subtly manipulating events until we arrived at this point"? I'm assuming that he was just overstating things, and all he did was suggest "Hey, wouldn't it be neat to find some way to transfer yourself into a nigh-invulnerable body?" Really, I can't think of anything that Luthor did that needed the explanation that Brainiac was pulling his strings.
65** Everyone knows that in DCU going in circles really quickly lets you break physics. No, really.
66*** [[HandWave Speed force.]]
67** Watch the scene again. The Flash's World Punch (patent pending) just causes massive damage and incapacitates Luthor/Brainiac. Brainiac was actually removed through some vibrating fist type of thing. This troper always assumed that he somehow vibrated Brainiac out of Luthor's cells. Slightly less implausible.
68*** Only ''slightly''. That Flash is able to control his ability to the effect that only parts of ''Brainiac'' were destroyed, leaving Lex unharmed then that suggests he should have great deal of control over his ability. ''The Great Brain Robbery'' has confirmed that Flash's vibrations create "an unstable resonance" - which is why Flash doesn't actually ''use'' that trick a great deal. That suggests that he knows he ''doesn't'' have too much control over his vibration. Unless of course, he just ''chooses'' not to use it?
69*** All the running really fast previous to where he jammed his vibrating hands into Luthor (Wow, that sounds dirty.) let him tap into the Speed Force and he was suddenly, briefly, really good at control. HandWave and so forth.
70*** Well, that and the fact that being hyper-accelerated probably gave him an increased awareness of what his abilities were doing to Luthor. He might have been moving so fast that, from his perspective, any damage he caused to Luthor's body was so slow to develop that he could fix it the very ''femtosecond'' after he caused it.
71*** Exactly. remember that right after this incident, Flash nearly vanished into the Speed Force altogether. This Troper just assumed that he tapped into so much of the Speed Force that he had nearly perfect control of what he was doing.
72*** I always assumed that Flash was sifting the Brainiac-particles out of the Luthor-particles to separate the two of them, and just didn't bother to preserve Brainiac's structure and/or neglected to do so in favor of making sure Lex didn't die horribly from the experience.
73** Also, WhenThingsSpinScienceHappens. When said spinning involves circling the globe several times in less than a minute, a ''whole friggin lot'' of science happens.
74** The only other I could think of would be to have Flash (or someone else) beat [=BrainiLex=] to death. On Cartoon Network. You think that's going to happen?
75** Isn't the real problem here that the Flash ran all the way around the world to punch Luthor rather than just double back?
76*** He was expecting a punch from the front. He thinks Flash is running away like a coward and goes back to building the doomsday weapon. Remember?
77*** Maybe it is when you consider how many people might have died when their streets inexplicably went from paved to pothole in a second. In terms of what he was trying to do, however, it makes sense. He builds up more energy by circling the globe, and thus hits that much harder by the time he gets back. A second or two wasted is well worth the extra power.
78** As for Braniac's 'subtly manipulating Luthor' thing, this troper thinks there's some sense in there. Brainiac was actually INSIDE Luthor for quite a while in nanotech form, waiting for him make something Brainiac could use as a body. Lex supposedly got Kryptonite-cancer from his little stash of Kryptonite, but that potentially marks the point where Brainiac decides waiting isn't productive and starts to reconfigure ''Lex'' into a working body. (After all, he's acting like a cancer and he's from Krypton, so Brainiac could probably fake it.) Brainiac probably was hoping for Cadmus to whip up something suitable for him to download into; going for the Dark Heart seems to have been an emergency backup plan. Otherwise, the whole Cadmus thing ends up being nothing more than an overly-complicated and very petty revenge plot on the heroes by Luthor.
79** I realize Cartoon Physics are in effect here, but Flash, other than his speed, is an ordinary man (if a very strong one). Wouldn't punching Luthor (or anything, really) at that speed shatter his arm into a million bloody pieces?
80*** At that point he had tapped into the full power of the Speed Force. In the comics, the Speed Force actually protects Flash from things like that...not too far fetched, relatively speaking, to assume it was doing the same here.
81*** To go along with the above, this Troper considers the Flash's powers to be largely "getting things done in less time" from Flash's perspective rather than "moving really fast". If so, no matter HOW fast Flash was going, it would be no more painful for Flash than punching someone while running past them at full speed. Meanwhile Braniac/Luthor would feel the full wrath of normal physics after getting hit by an object going that fast.
82*** Cartoon physics are a necessity for explaining Flash's power altogether. He moves so fast that a human body, regardless of how strong, would turn to paste, even without hitting anything but air (not to mention that, in order to run fast, his feet are always "kicking" the floor at very high speeds too). If he can withstand such a high amount of friction, then it makes sense that he can withstand impact while moving fast. There's a reason he's the subject of the page quote for RequiredSecondaryPowers.
83** With regard to the larger question of how Flash rips Braniac and Luthor apart, I think this is a case of HeroicResolve and/or EleventhHourSuperpower. Flash has been shown able to move fast enough that he ''and those he brings along'' can pass through solid objects. What's to say he can't rip out all the "Brainiac" and leave Luthor's internals otherwise intact? In "It's only a Dream" and "Flash and Substance" we see that Flash is pretty much never getting close to the limits of his power. His Rogue's gallery is nowhere near his power level and he's also ''afraid'' to go all out as well. Given that in "Divided We Fall" he's LITERALLY the last man standing and thus the only one who can stop Braniac/Lex from destroying the UNIVERSE... If there ever was a time to go for the limit, this is it. Luthor was just lucky he was vain enough to compel the Braniac/Luthor gestalt to rebuild his human body.
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86[[folder:Hawkgirl the two-timer?]]
87This just strikes me as so odd, and nobody seems to be remarking on it. So Hawkgirl was engaged to Hro Talak, explicitly said she was in love with him, went on a mission to earth and just kinda... forgot about him and started a new relationship with John, only to kinda temporarily toss him aside when Hro comes back until they have their falling out at which point she decides she's in love with John more? That is... an ''unspeakably'' dickish move, and frankly that's grounds for never getting back together even ignoring the whole betraying the entire human race thing. And yet the second Hro's beaten, he's just never brought up again, forgotten like the villain of the week he was, leaving only the discomfort of her betraying the human race to stand in the way of her relationship with John? Seriously? Is there something I'm missing? why is she given a free pass in this area?
88** She doesn't "decide" who to fall in love with. That's not how love works. What happened was Hawkgirl was under deep cover -- she was there with a cover story, and acted in line with that cover story, which included being free to pursue relationships. Getting into someone's bed is a classic spy move. But, like the cliche goes, Hawkgirl found herself BecomingTheMask. She didn't plan to fall in love with John, it just happened. And then, one of the men she loved was planning to commit genocide, and the other wasn't. She made a choice then -- not choosing to love John more, but choosing the guy who was not planning to end an innocent world.
89*** My point is why did she agree to go out with John in the first place if she genuinely cared about him? It she meant what she had said when she told John that she "never lied about [being in love with him]", then that means that at no point was she "getting into someone's bed as a spy move". She simply loved him. It doesn't change the fact that she pretty much tossed him aside without much guilt the second her fiancee came back, which she ''had'' to have known would happen eventually. Also, nothing about her cover story mandated that she couldn't tell John that she had a significant other back home, so she didn't have to pretend to be single as part of that cover story. So she has no excuse for leading John on like that.
90*** A couple things here -- 1. Hawkgirl didn't jump into bed with him (she is the most reluctant of the two to start anything, and takes considerable convincing), and 2. you don't necessarily love someone or even say that you love them when you first start dating. Her cover story was that she had no idea where she was in the galaxy and had no way of getting home, so even if her cover story included a significant other, it's been years since she saw him and for all she knew it was impossible to get back to him -- i.e., she's effectively single. Hell, even if she was reluctant to ''do'' it, that might have been her instructions -- to pretend to be single and available to get in with people. Chances are, Hawkgirl had some feelings for John, but gave the excuses and put off his advances because she was engaged and didn't feel comfortable with using him like that. Then it came to a point where continuing to put him off would start looking suspicious (i.e., after he nearly dies saving her life), so she started going out with him, rationalizing it as doing her job as a spy. Then those feelings turned into love, which she hadn't planned for. Then when her fiance shows up, she sides with him because that's her job, and she thinks that it's the best thing for her to do.
91*** Hro Talak puts a good spin on it. He says something to the effect of "tell me it was only a mild flirtation. That you were lonely." It's been five years since she was on Thanagar. That's a long time to stay faithful to someone with no (or at least very little) contact. GL and Hro Talak are like representations as to where her loyalties lie, when the Thanagarians first come she's on their side because its who she is and it was her job to pretend otherwise. Likewise Hro Talak was still her fiance and she probably was trying to convince herself that it was a fling she did out of loneliness. Of course on the original point, why GL didn't focus on the issue, betraying the entire planet and assisting in its destruction is a much bigger deal than having a secret fiance you haven't seen in five years.
92** In fairness, Hawkgirl's actions were treated as a betrayal by both parties. The audience is meant to see where she's coming from with her infidelity, but not excuse it. As for her and Jon getting back togeter...it's not like their relationship had much substance to begin with outside of a playful antagonism. Comic book love is often high in passion and low in substance, which kind of makes sense given the hectic, unstable, and dangerous life of super heroes.
93[[/folder]]
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95[[folder:Video from another dimension]]
96* How did the US government in this dimension get the video about Justice Lord Superman killing President Luthor in the other dimension?
97** This one is addressed in an earlier episode. The Justice League had to do the US government several favours in order to get Lex Luthor a pardon. One of those "favours" was to give them information on the world of the Justice Lords. So presumably the Justice League gave them a tape they had found in the world of the Justice Lords.
98** It wasn't a video tape. It was a computer simulation based on the information the League gave them.
99*** My assumption (and I think there's WordOfGod to this effect) is that Huntress only ''assumed'' that video was one of the computer simulations, when it was in fact the actual recording. Which is why it bothered Superman so much when she brought it up.
100*** From the angle of the shot it was a security camera, but... Why was that camera fitted with a microphone?
101*** [[FridgeBrilliance Because that camera belonged to Lex flipping Luthor, that's why.]] He probably had the whole White House wired for sound maybe a day after taking office.
102*** He wouldn't be the first President to record everything that happened in his office. And he wouldn't be the first President to have it come back to bite him.
103* I have two: where did Luthor get the video of alternate universe Superman killing the alternate universe Luthor, and why did the Question think they were in a time loop and that there would be a superhuman arms race when in the alternate universe, the original Justice League just became tyrants? Granted, he is a crazy conspiracy theorist... maybe I'm just overthinking things...
104** He didn't have the video, Cadmus did, the League gave it to them. Waller explains that they had to give the government all the info they had from the alternate reality to secure Luthor's pardon, and they probably brought a copy back with them.
105*** What he says is why Luthor knew of his death in another world. And i was under the assumption that Luthor was in bed with Cadmus, literally. So it's no surpise he could get his hands on this piece of info. And no Q is crazy conspiracy theorist, but c'mon Luthor is smart (aside from Forty pies that are cakes) and it would be logical to assume that he would use that information to his advantage. New host body (Amazo model), control over media, recent Justice Lords event (not so recent but still), the whole Orbital laser thing. Faking his death, while claiming that Superman did it out of hatred - and well...
106** This Troper considers "Question's Time Loop" a bit of Fridge Horror that requires a bit of wider look at the DC continuity as a whole. Looking at every "Alternate Universe", "Alternate Future", and "Crisis Event" across ''all'' media, you tend to see the same pattern: In any post-apocalyptic universe, either Superman or Lex Luthor is dead. Usually the other is the killer. In any Universe where its ''not'' a post-apocalypse both men are alive and well and enjoying a spirited rivalry. Look at DC Universe on-line as an example. Mere ''seconds'' after Lex kills Superman, Braniac invades earth. In universes without Lex, Superman usually turns into a tyrant akin to Darksied a la the Justice Lords or "Crisis on Two Earths". The same thing seems to exist between Flash and Dr. Zoom following the recent "Flashpoint" event that just rebooted the comic universe. Its not a time-loop for the DCAU, its DC's Ragnarok cycle.
107[[/folder]]
108
109[[folder:Terminator Joker]]
110* How the ''hell'' did Joker waltz into a (presumably) highly-guarded government center and march off with five metahumans? And I was just about to praise the DCAU for not making its characters constantly [[{{Jobber}} jobbing]] to the Joker, too...
111** What? He killed them. All of them. With his Joker Venom. That was implied. Remember the first appearances of Joker in ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', his venom was non-lethal, then by Mask of the Phantasm, he could kill people with it.
112** Allow me to elaborate: the metahuman-containment center was implied to belong to Cadmus, y'know, that ridiculously large and well-funded government center? At the very least, this troper would expect stuff like fingerprint-scanning pads, retina scanners, {{Mooks}} posted at every door... In addition, the place was holding five highly-dangerous metahumans, which meant that it should have at least double the security that most government centers should have. I can swallow the Joker regularly giving guys like Batman (who have trained all their life) trouble; I can swallow him getting sent to Arkham time and time again instead of getting the chair. What I ''cannot'' swallow is him screwing around with the entire US government as if they were five-year olds.
113*** I think you vastly underestimate the US government's (or any government's) potential for rank incompetence.
114*** Not to mention: if he can give (two varieties of) ''Batman'' a decent fight, how hard are some government mooks and some security systems?
115** I interpreted that he organized a jailbreak with the Royal Flush Gang helping from the inside. Ace's God Mode powers must've helped immeasurably. Also, we know that Joker had insiders at Cadmus based on "Epilogue" and "Return of the Joker."
116** If you prefer a very simple solution, remember that the entire flashback is a story told by somebody who is both insane and a habitual liar who lives to MindScrew. In a later episode, Waller admits that Cadmus had some link to the creation of the Royal Flush; everything else is hearsay.
117[[/folder]]
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119[[folder:"Civil war on Apokolips? Good."]]
120* What bugs me is the fact that the Justice League was evidently content to not only allow but actively perpetuate a civil war on Apokolips. Did they have a plan to deal with it eventually, or were they just going to let everyone fight until they were all dead? And if it's the latter, wouldn't a more humane course be to just blow up the planet or something?
121** The JL's focus is on protecting Earth. If the civil war had threatened Earth, they would have acted, but until that time it served their goals - namely, tying up Apokolips for a while and letting them deal with more immediate threats like the Thanagarian invasion.
122** That and blowing up Apokolips would be quite the undertaking. It's not like the League keeps planet-cracking bombs on hand, and assuming they had a hero who could pull off the job, they'd have to do it quickly and quietly. So much as a soul notices and you have a planet of pissed-off people with superpowers and advanced alien technology with no obligation to follow the treaty Darkseid had with Highfather. As proved in "Destroyer", the League would probably have won, but that's not a gamble you want to make. It's a lot easier to let these people waste their resources killing one-another then dealing with whatever fool came out on top.
123*** Exactly. To use a RealLife diplomatic term, the Justice League was essentially practicing realpolitik in regards to the civil war on Apokolips. Every second that the Apokoliptian warlords like Granny or Vundabar are tied up fighting over the scraps of Darkseid's empire is one less second that they're plotting to take over Earth. It drains Apokolips's resources, keeps them too busy to bother Earth or any other planet, and thus is beneficial not only to Earth but to ''every planet'' that Darkseid's regime had had in its crosshairs. It's not hard to imagine Batman actively encouraging the League to let Darkseid's former underlings beat the crap out of each other, knowing the strategic benefit that this provides for Earth and the rest of the Universe.
124*** Martian Manhunter explicitly mentions this in "The Ties That Bind" when Big Barda and Mr. Miracle seek the League's help in rescuing Oberon, who has been taken hostage by Granny Goodness to blackmail Mr. Miracle into getting Kalibak out of the X-Pit (as Miracle was the only one to ever escape). They ask specifically for Superman's help and get this response:
125--->'''Martian Manhunter:''' Superman's on a mission in deep space, but even if he weren't, it makes no sense for the League to help another dictator come to power on Apocalypse. A dictator who could eventually threaten Earth, just as Darkseid did. Better to let them fight among themselves than attack the rest of the universe.
126* How does Martian Manhunter transform into Kalibak when Big Barda approaches Granny? We saw on screen that Flash, Big Barda and Mr. Miracle escaped with the evil Kalibak. Just how does Martian Manhunter transform into a Kalibak? They didn't appear to fly Kalibak to a prison.
127** They took a detour to the Watchtower to swap Kalibak with Manhunter before going to Granny. Kalibak may have even gone with the plan willingly since Granny's care would have been no different from Vundabar's.
128[[/folder]]
129
130[[folder:"The Once and Future Thing"]]
131* The whole defeat of Chronos. Passing by the whole ''"sympathetic AntiVillain one episode irredeemably psychotic monster the next"'' thing, which has always bugged me about Chronos, Bats reversed Chronos' changed by trapping him in a time loop with his wife. So... wait. How? Is his wife is stuck in there with him? How does time keep going on if part of it is replaying every few seconds; shouldn't everyone ''still be replaying everything in the next few seconds?'' Or is it only effecting Chronos... which raises more questions. Is the anomaly restricted only to his home? Does the fact that time is still going on mean that he eventually gets out? As a final point, that seems extraordinarily cruel, especially for Batman, who, despite appearances, isn't generally that heartless. It's a fate much, much worse than death, after all. I've always disliked the whole "superhero opting not to kill the villain but instead intentionally doing something worse" type of ending, and that coming from Batman (who is a strong believer in not taking punishment into one's own hands) of all people is kind of annoying.
132** That whole "sympathetic in one episode, not so much in the next" thing strikes me as the consequence of a ''lot'' of OffscreenVillainy. For us, viewing things from the heroes' perspectives, it hasn't been that long since we last saw him, but for Chronos, considering all the wealth and power and architecture he's gathered by the time we meet him again, it looks like he's been carrying on his activities for at least a decade or two. A few years of basically getting anything you want whenever you want it might turn ''anyone'' into a monster.
133** What happened to Chronos is as follows: Batman set his belt to loop him back to a few seconds before the moment he came to the Watchtower. Implicitly, he has trapped Chronos in a self-rewinding (remember, the belt has shown the power to fastforward or rewind time in a localized area when Chronos melted the safe) time loop of those few moments. From Chronos' perspective, he's just doing what he did at the start, and has no memory of anything he was originally going to do, or of having looped back to this moment. From an observer's perspective, he's just plain gone, and never coming back. When he hits that button, he ceases to exist from then on for all practical purposes. As for the WhatTheHellHero on Batman's part, what else could you expect him to do? Chronos had royally scrambled his time-line, and the only way to stop it was to undo the triggering event. Chronos' fate, while bad, really can't be said to be excessive when he ''destroyed time''.
134** Perhaps, depending on what you think on the metaphysics of it all, the nature of Free Will is still up in the air in the DCAU, so that perhaps what Batman reprogrammed the belt so that "Chronos" would never exist. Perhaps until David Clinton can reassert himself in front of his wife and tell her why his inventions are good and thus allow for him to grow into a better person.
135** Batman knew that, if he just disabled the belt, Chronos could just fix it or build a new one. He also had no way of knowing who Chronos actually was, but he did know what his home time period was, because he'd been there. So, he set the belt to loop everything within a few feet of it when it's activated (you'll notice that the wife's voice was audible outside their home, but there was no time flash, so the rest of the universe isn't looping). Eventually someone would discover them, who would bring in the police, which would eventually bring in the future Justice League. They, in turn, would have instructions from present Batman about how to end the loop, how to permanently disable the belt, how to use the belt to fix someone who was [[PortalCut halfway in the area of effect]] (before disabling it), what to do if the belt [[CrazyPrepared turns out to have been stolen from aliens who want their tech back]], etc.
136** Considering what was previously said, perhaps there are other circumstances in which the loop could be interrupted and come to an end. What happens if the neighbors are disturbed by the noise and enter the house to tell them to stop or the house gets demolished? Perhaps in the latter case that scares Chronos and Enid enough to stop fighting or in the worse of the cases, they die crushed or at the very least, Chronos' belt gets damaged, stopping the loop yet ruining David Clinton's chances to become Chronos.
137
138* Another thing from "The Once and Future Thing". Batman and Lantern are the only two that remember what happens. Let me repeat...Batman KNOWS that he is going to have a successor. Yeah I know he never saw Terry without the mask, and Old!Bruce didn't call him by name in front of the others...but I guess, personally it bugs me, because I'd like to think Batman knew he could trust Terry with his legacy because of what Terry said to Bruce in Rebirth Pt. 2, as well as Terry proving he can handle it. Instead, from that moment I bet Batman deduced that when Terry stole his Beyond Suit, that THAT was the same person he met in the future. I dunno, someone got an explanation that still doesn't take away from Bruce putting his faith in Terry-even with the before-hand knowledge?
139** On the other hand, Batman didn't know what would happen in between those times, such as the Joker kidnapping Robin (Tim Drake) and making him a Joker Jr. in ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker''. Or when Batman was forced to pull out a gun on a thug in the pilot episode of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond''. To paraphrase Terry: something happened, and it's not just that Batman got old.
140** Batman knew that someday someone would be the new Batman... but not who would it be, nor in which circumstances would they met. So, when the day came, he must have asked himself: is this Terry the guy destined to become the new Batman? Or just a LeeroyJenkins who stole a Batman suit? What to do? The best action to take: just be true to himself, and react to the robbery as he would have reacted anyway if there was no such time-travel scenario.
141*** I have to second the above. First he certainly puts Terry in some rough spots that first night for someone that he "knew" was going to be the next Batman (though I guess you can play as rough as you like with someone you KNOW will survive)but it's fairly heavily implied in Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker that Nightwing is still active. Though given the age of Barbara in the series I suspect that the mantle of Nightwing had to have been passed down to someone new and even amongst trusted friends it's probably bad form to give out secret identities.
142** Let's note that while Batman did indeed see ''a'' future, it was a badly corrupted time-line in which all kinds of things were wrong and some things (Green Lantern's identity, Wonder Woman's very existence) were changing right before their eyes. Also, those were Joker's Jokerz the League were fighting, indicating that the events of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker'' either hadn't happened yet or were never going to in this time-line due to Chronos being in charge. In other words, everything that Batman and Green Lantern remember from this time-line is only a ''possible'' future, and some of it only possible due to lots of temporal meddling. (Those Jokerz certainly never had so many deadly upgrades in the actual ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' future.) Batman not only had no way of knowing Terry would be his successor, but no way of being certain he would even decide to have one. After seeing how badly that future ended, he might well have strongly reconsidered whether it was right to endanger another youngster with his legacy.
143*** Batman might have also deliberately put the whole thing out of his mind, recognizing the danger of entertaining the idea that he's somehow destined to survive into old age.
144
145* Why was everyone so terrified of Tobias Manning's literal-six-gun? I mean, I get that it'd be unnerving, but... you can still shoot him. He could have a thousand different guns on the thing and it still wouldn't stop a bullet. Heck, Bat Lash had him ''at gunpoint'' when he revealed the thing, and he just put his gun down as if he'd been trumped. Why couldn't he be like "Nice gun!" *BANG*. And don't say "Well, he could have a force field or something" because it was specifically the gun that everyone was frightened of.
146** Since the six barrels are on those arms it would make sense to presume it can target multiple people at once. It is also a laser weapon and these are people from over a hundred years ago, they are most likely freaked out by how alien it seems as well as afraid of him after he used it to kill who knows how many in fights.
147
148* Why is Bonk still alive when Chronos returns to his time and recruits the Jokerz? Terry recognizing the Jokerz in this episode suggests that the events of the episode take place after ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyondReturnOfTheJoker'' and Bonk was killed in that movie, and in both the edited and uncut versions, to be precise.
149[[/folder]]
150
151[[folder:Cadmus: Department of Endangerment and Torture]]
152* Why was so much of Cadmus' efforts centred around creating ''more'' metahumans to counter the Justice League? Why create more superpowered beings that you might not be able to control? What if, say, Galatea went rogue? And we all know what happened with Doomsday. Surely it should have concentrated on upgrading conventional weaponry to give normal human militaries and police forces an edge against metahuman threats? Granted, there were some things like the Kryptonite-tipped nuclear missile that had the capability to kill both Superman and Doomsday, it didn't seem enough compared to the disproportionate resources allocated to creating ''more'' metahumans. It's all the more galling given how damn near everything is ImmuneToBullets.
153** It's a matter of effectiveness. Take Kryptonite bullets. This would down heavy-hitters like Superman and Supergirl (and they did make them in small quantities), but not other heavy-hitters like the Martian Manhunter. They'd have to make weapons for each and every hero, or something universally effective. Other metahumans in their employ is good for that purpose. Lex's insta-depowered ray would also be good, but too easy from a story-telling point of view.
154*** [[KillItWithFire Incindenary]] [[GreenRocks Kryptonite]] bullets in [[WeakSauceWeakness yellowed painted]] shells there I just came up with a weapon good for taking out three League Members. As for the others it's just a matter of figuring out how to hit them with normal bullets.
155*** Assuming you mean, in order, the Manhunter, Superman, and the Green Lantern, that would work in the comics. In this show, Jonn is never explicitly shown to have any sort of fire phobia, nor are the Green Lanterns explicitly shown to be weak against yellow. While yellow things have gotten past their barriers on a few occasions, Sinestro's yellow attacks are never shown to be immune. Thus, three just became one again. Back to the point, assuming all three worked, you made a triple-effective weapon when you're facing an organization which, in a rough estimate, has a good fifty super-heroes of various flavors in its ranks. It's nearly impossible to have meta-human kill teams roaming around with a feasible way of killing ''any'' metahuman imaginable.
156*** In fact, this Manhunter has specifically been shown to ''not'' be weak to fire. In The Savage Time, he removed a jet's engine while the afterburner was '''blasting him in the face'''.
157*** It was stated by Amanda Waller that simulations were run to see if they could handle a rogue Justice League, and they arrived at the conclusion that they couldn't. Presumably everything Cadmus did and didn't do thereafter was predicated on these vague calculations. They were probably savvy enough to know that their metahumans could turn against them, but nonetheless believed them to be their best shot.
158*** Out-of-Universe it's because it's just plain cooler to build meta humans who then become characters in their own right. In-Universe it's damn hard to bring enough dakka to the fight to effect the higher ups in the Justice League but Lex has proven that they do make lasers in the "hurt Superman Size". Lex's power suit has been shown to be roughly on par with Superman. Steel isn't too far off that mark either so creating something that can fight the Justice League, have an army trained to use and could be handed to the next guy in a pinch is clearly not impossible. That all presupposes that building something roughly on par with Amazo is impossible not really difficult.
159** Judging from that metahuman team that Cadmus made sure were known publically as heroes, the idea wasn't just to eliminate the Justice League, it was to eliminate ''and replace''. A natural concern of getting rid of superheroes is that all the stuff they're fighting against will run wild with nothing to stop them, so Cadmus was attempting to provide controllable alternatives to keeping around a group of vigilantes. Sending their metahumans after the Justice League would've been a way to prove their superiority and/or highlight design flaws to be eliminated in the next generation model.
160** The whole idea of an "arms race" is two sides struggling to meet or exceed the other side's weapons capacity. Cadmus was only a few years old in this continuity. First you've got to study metahumans, then you've got to build and test prototypes of your weapons. Cadmus just wasn't far enough along to start mass-producing "anti-meta" field weapons. They were still too busy cloning test subjects FOR those weapons. Galatea and the Ulitmen were just promising early breakthroughs.
161* In ''Flashpoint,'' just after ''Question Authority,'' Superman and J'onn have this argument about whether they can now bring down Cadmus, but they can't because they have no solid evidence. What? Cadmus held Question without due process, they ''tortured'' him, and the Justice League is not going to say anything? If nothing else, they could take the story to the media, and the public's outrage at a secret branch of the government torturing a US citizen would be more than enough to bring down Cadmus.
162** Yeah, the same way that, in real life, all those high-ranking U.S. military and CIA officials were taken down after it became public that they were indefinitely detaining and torturing people without trial in connection the War on Terror. Oh, wait... and the JL had a LOT less evidence to prove that the Question was tortured, mostly just eyewitness accounts that boiled down to the JL's word vs. Cadmus'.
163** But that might not work once Cadmus let out evidence that The Question is, basically, a ''really'' good spy, and ''they'' are goverment-based (correct me if I'm wrong) so they would, legally, be able to deal with him. Torture him? Probably not, considering this 'verse isn't a Crapsack one, but how many people are going to worry about a guy who's in the Justice League, who are alternatively hated with a mob-like passion and (some of them) shown to ''come back from the dead''? Either they'll say 'oh, they were just doing their job' or 'he's fine, he's one of those powered folks, couldn't have hurt one of them too much'.
164** Also, any legal proceedings would likely require the use of Question's real name. Which I don't think he would be forthcoming with.
165** They may ''know'' all these things, but how many of them can they ''prove'' in a court of law?
166* Did anybody at Cadmus ever start to consider that they could become more a menace than the Justice League? Hell, considering that they already violate more laws than they enforced (and nearly nuked a populated area), even though they're supposed to protect the world from the Justice League in case it goes rogue, it seem more like the world needs protection from Cadmus. It's particularly jarring we don't see anything stopping them from doing the things they feared the Justice League doing.
167** They ''are'' more of a menace than the Justice League. ''That's the whole point.'' They never considered it because they're a giant pile of hypocrites.
168** After the end Amanda Waller had clearly figured it out. Paraphrased she says the League weren't the devils they were painted as and Cadmus weren't the angels they pretended to be.
169* In "A Better World," Doomsday states that his skin can withstand a nuclear explosion. Yet in "The Doomsday Sanction," General Eiling attempts to kill him with a nuclear missile. The missile did have a kryptonite warhead, and since Doomsday is an altered clone of Superman, he could be vulnerable to it... but in that case, why didn't Cadmus use kryptonite to kill Doomsday in the first place, instead of attempting to send him into space? Why wasn't kryptonite being used to contain him when he was captive?
170** There are many contradictions between Doomsday as he appears in "A Better World" and his origin as described in "The Doomsday Sanction." It's pretty clear to me that they did a re-write to bring him into the Cadmus arc, so it I just chalk that and the other errors up to trying to force two disparate concepts into a single story.
171*** They obviously changed their minds about what they wanted to do with Doomsday between the two episodes, but the nuclear weapon thing sticks out to me because it's an explicit contradiction, instead of just fudging something that was only implied (like the fact that Doomday was probably supposed to be an alien in the original and didn't have any beef with Superman in particular). And Doomsday's toughness is probably not something that they would want to retcon. But even going off of "The Doomsday Sanction" alone... if it takes a missile with a kryptonite-lined warhead to kill Superman, and Doomsday is both tougher than Superman and immune to kryptonite, it seems like Doomsday should have been fine.
172*** On balance, General Eiling never struck me as the sort of man who cared if a countermeasure would work ''properly'' so long as it was the one ''he'' new about. Hence his fixation on the Justice League having a space cannon, using a kryptonite nuke that probably wouldn't work, and ultimately injecting himself with a sixty year old unstable Nazi mutagen before trying to pick a fight with Superman.
173* What was Cadmus thinking when they ''created'' Doomsday?! I know it was supposed to be a fail safe in case Superman went rogue, but the way they did it makes it seem less like a reasonable countermeasure and more like an an utterly self-inflicted {{Godzilla Threshold}}. At no point was it shown they could control Doomsday well enough that they could release it and expect it to take down its intended target without causing collateral damage and massive casualties. At least Ace was a bit more tractable before going rogue, especially when she had her power dampener on, but Doomsday's conditioned desire to eliminate Superman is so great that it will do anything to take the Superhero down, consequences be damned. The only other person with a hatred as deep and obsessive as Doomsday is Lex Luthor. However, while Luther prefers bringing Superman down through manipulation, cunning, and sublety, Doomsday does it with his fists. Yet even then Doomsday isn't just a mindlessly destructive killing machine. He has shown plenty of instances of intelligence and awareness of his situation. If at some point he figures that killing off Superman isn't enough to absolve his rage, he will go out and make sure Superman suffers in absolute anguish by killing off those close to him, including the people he has sworn himself to protect, Metropolis itself!
174** No shit it didn't work. That's why Cadmus first launched it into space, and then had it locked up and unable to move. The end product of Doomsday wasn't what was originally planned. They tried to make a countermeasure to Superman, it didn't work, and they tried to get rid of it. When that didn't work, they locked it up. Don't confuse the failure of an end-product with the original intent.
175*** Note that their second attempt, Galatea, worked ''exactly'' as programmed. They were improving; that's worrying.
176** Its worth noting that a rampaging Doomsday would likely be easier to deal with than a rampaging Superman. Justice Lord Superman downs Doomsday with a OHKO (that he evolved to be immune to later) but between the Justice Lords, Crime Syndicate and Injustice for all just to name a few seem to suggest that the only way you get rid of an evil Superman is to go to the universe next door and borrow theirs. With that in mind I can easily justify keeping Doomsday around unless he's in 'exterminate all life' mode he's essentially the Incredible Hulk or Godzilla. A huge problem yeah but nothing on the scale of Superman who's conquered the Universe at least once.
177*** I'm gonna have to disagree on that assessment. Doomsday proved in both conflicts to be quite a bit stronger than Superman himself. In fact, if Lord!Supes hadn't lobotomized him, he could have taken down the entire Justice Lords. The only thing that could make him potentially less dangerous than Supes is that he can't fly or run as fast, but that just bides them time. That being said, i think the creation of Doomsday is justified by Cadmus just being Cadmus.
178*** I was less than clear with my Assessment. Doomsday in terms of sheer power is more powerful than Superman. He simply seems to lack the sort of drive and focus that Superman possesses. Doomsday tends to be a force of nature, incredible power but (if you're not Superman) no more malice than a hurricane. Superman every single time he's gone dark he's become a dictator imposing his will on the people of the Earth or in the case of Injustice for All the universe. The question of whether you'd rather have a Super Dictator or a randomly rampaging Person of Mass Destruction is of course a matter of opinion. But often times the question of living under Dark Superman is the question between freedom and security.
179** Doomsday being a Cadmus creation was an obvious and sloppy retcon (in "A Better World" he quite obviously falls to Earth encased in some sort of asteroid, and there is absolutely no way that a rocket burning up in reentry can turn into an asteroid, not to mention that once he arrived he had no special interest in Superman beyond the fact that Lord Superman interrupted his rampage), so naturally there's a lot that doesn't make sense about him. Actually, the only way it makes sense is if Milo was ''lying'' to Doomsday about Cadmus having created him to be an anti-Superman weapon. If he was just a random super-strong alien that Cadmus brainwashed after Lord Superman lobotomized him, their lack of an effective countermeasure against Doomsday simply means they hadn't figured one out yet rather than them being stupid enough to ''create'' a weapon they couldn't stop.
180
181* In "Flashpoint," Captain Atom's JustFollowingOrders makes no sense in light of the fact that his "legal and proper" orders are to prevent the rescue of a ''torture victim'' that was being held without due process. Atom's military oaths ''require'' him to refuse to obey such blatantly illegal orders. There shouldn't be any conflicting duties for him in this situation. The legal and moral thing for him to do would have been to simply stand down and let them leave.
182** Similarly, Superman not even trying to debate Captain Atom on the legality or morality of his orders, even though Captain Atom clearly wanted to resolve the situation without violence.
183** This was an attempt by the writers (a poor one but the entire arc is handled poorly on this front) to show the legitimacy of the government. Captain Atom is a member of the United States Military and was given an order, one that he apparently agreed with. In REAL LIFE it was effectively argued with GITMO that it's not illegal if the President orders it. It's easy to forget that the Justice League has an orbital Death Cannon, the Justice Lords provide proof that the only thing stopping the Justice League from world domination is their own good will. The government, the military in particular has an obligation to do anything and everything in their power to have an answer to the Justice League should they go rogue. At this point in the story Superman was effectively a hostile government breaking into a secret facility and taking away a political prisoner. Try the argument again only replace Justice League and The Question with Taliban and Al Zawari and see if you have the same objections.
184*** If we're going to be arguing it like that, let's make it as close as possible. Replace the League and The Question with "peaceful group with power" and "member of said group" and see how the argument plays out. You can't just say "because they MIGHT be a threat if we murder one of them in cold blood" and expect it all to work out fine. Which is what caused the Justice Lords. Comparing the League to the Taliban because they wouldn't take one of their own being murdered and snapped in response in an alternate universe is just...completely and utterly inaccurate.
185*** By this point in the story Lex Luthor had fired the Justice League's orbital death cannon on a city and we can only imagine how many casualties were caused by that. This was AFTER the government had found out about it and complained that they didn't like the Justice League having a death cannon pointed at the earth. What caused the Justice Lords is irrelevant, but fact that the Justice Lords (Minus one member) took over the world and imposed their own will on the planet. They were a legit threat that the government had absolutely no answer to. You could compare them to any foreign power you want and the scenario would be the same. In all fairness comparing the League snapping over the death of the Flash, which as far as we can tell along with President Luthor are the only differences between the main line and the Justice Lords, to the Taliban is being extremely generous. I think it's more than safe to say they over-reacted A LOT. And again the government has an obligation to protect its citizens. What they did to the Question was wrong, as was stated earlier the arc was (and is always) handled poorly. Because in super hero stories the moral is always the government is corrupt, trust the super heroes whom you have no way of controlling.
186*** Cadmus ''started out'' with that intention, which is as you say a valid point. They rapidly JumpedOffTheSlipperySlope. Very rapidly. Galatea was killing innocent American citizens (and at least one retired soldier) to keep her presence secret. Lord was authorizing the creation of superhuman clones ''knowing'' that they would inevitably become unstable. Eiling could hardly wait to test his kryptonite-coated hydrogen bomb. The government isn't "always corrupt" in the superhero genre, and it seems odd to say that you need a "way to control" superheroes. Super-prison seems to work well enough for the Parasite, Grodd and so many others...
187** Captain Atom has probably been told only that Question is being incarcerated and questioned and kept in the dark about the details of the "questioning", so as far as he knows the orders ''are'' "legal and proper". As for Superman not arguing the point, he probably figured that it wouldn't do any good to make claims he couldn't (yet) prove.
188[[/folder]]
189
190[[folder:Wally's age]]
191* This is just a little thing, but... Does anyone actually ''know'' how old Wally West's [[ComicBook/TheFlash Flash]] is in this?
192** This troper always assumed he was at ''least'' twenty years old, as that would explain why he was so childish compared to the other League members and why he's also less disillusioned with being a superhero.
193*** He can't possibly be twenty. He's at ''least'' twenty-five. He's a ''forensic scientist'' for the police department. That takes a degree and stuff, and he's shown to be really good at his job, so he probably has some experience. And anyway, since when is 'twenty-five' a reason to be any more mature than he acts? Twenty-five is really young.
194*** Or he's at least twenty-five by JLU when he's shown to have a job as a forensic scientist at the police department. Before that could've been a college graduate, in grad school or still looking for a good job. We don't know how much time passed between JL and JLU but it would be reasonable to say he started off in his early twenties and was in his mid-twenties by the end of the series. Then again it's just as reasonable to assume he was in his mid-twenties in the beginning. Honestly the only thing we can say for sure is he's the youngest member of the team and under thirty.
195*** Considering how Wally experiences life at an accelerated pace it wouldn't shock me in the least to find out that he was one of those kids who was graduating from college at sixteen because he tested out of every age. And that's ignoring that fictional characters always manage to advance in life very quickly compared to what's possible/likely in real life.
196*** Considering Wally thinks at the speed at which he moves, in terms of real life testing and information gathering, he would be immeasurable compared even to Batman, or Lex Luthor. Look at his nightmare in "Only A Dream", he is basically stuck at full speed, the world appears to have completely stopped. It truly could be frightening to imagine how long it feels like Wally has been alive to himself. The information he sees and experiences while running around the world 4 times or so in Divided We Fall, would be the equivalent of what a human would experience doing the same. Assuming a human at a full on sprint running 20 mph non-stop, which is fast for a human, circling the globe 4 times would take 207.5 days. While to anybody else, it would appear to be a matter of a few seconds, Wally's brain would absorb as much information as a human would in those 207.5 days. His immature attitude as the Flash may simply a coping mechanism to maintain his sanity.
197* There was a line in "The Great Brain Robbery" (an episode late in the final season) where Flash referred to an event from Season 1 of the original series a something that happened a couple years ago, so it's reasonable to say that around 3-4 years passed over the course of JL/JLU. Also, Flash's origin seems to be the same as Barry Allen's in the comic, meaning he would've already been a forensic scientist ''before'' he became the Flash. And he's been the Flash since the Superman TAS days, so a few years before Justice League. With all that in mind, he'd have to at least be in his mid-twenties at the start of Justice League (having been a forensic scientist for at least a few years) and is probably close to 30 by the end.
198[[/folder]]
199
200[[folder:Hawkgirl does her research]]
201* Okay, so at the end of "Divided We Fall", when Shayera is pulling ComicBook/TheFlash out of the Speed Force, how does she know his name? Yes, the JL admitted who they were at the end of "Starcrossed", but Shayera wasn't there, so... How does she know that the Flash is "Wally"?
202** She knew who Batman was without him ever reveaing it to her, you think Flash would have been hard to figure out? Basically heroes have secret identities from each other because they just don't bother looking into each other.
203** Besides, she's been back on the team for fourteen episodes by then, and the show made a point of how well they got along. Who's to say he didn't just tell her?
204** At the end of part three of "Starcrossed," Shayera is ''having tea in Wayne Manor.'' Clearly, the secret identities thing was already dealt with.
205** As is mentioned above, she found out Batman's identity without him knowing. ''Batman!'' She ''outplayed'' '''Batman'''. She was a spy specifically sent in to find and undermine the heroes. Finding out their identities would've been a natural part of that.
206** Also, her once and future man (GL) just so happens to be one of the Flash's best friends.
207** Them revealing their secret identities to each other was portrayed as a big moment where they all demonstrated a kind of trust in one another they never had. Flash was very much in favor of forgiving her for the whole deceit. Maybe he told her his real name to remind her she was one of them.
208[[/folder]]
209
210[[folder:Plot threads left hanging]]
211* Something that ''really'' bugs me about the series as a whole is how many plot threads were LeftHanging at the end: The fate of the Justice Lords, of Galatea, of the original Ultimen, of the hulked-out General Eiling. The nature of J'onn's relationship with that woman. The Green Lantern/Vixen/Hawkman/Hawkgirl LoveDodecahedron. It's really irritating. I want to know what happened next!
212** The Justice Lords were depowered and imprisoned. Galatea was killed. The original Ultimen degenerated and died. All three of those were either explicitly said or ''heavily'' implied. I'll give you Eiling, though; I sorta wanted to see him show up in the finale.
213*** I was wondering more about why Captain Marvel didn't show up at the finale to notice...
214*** None of those are ever actually ''shown'', though. And Galatea is still twitching at the end, and it seems like it would take more than a jolt of electricity to kill a Kryptonian.
215*** The Justice Lords are shown being depowered by Luthor's device, and the last you see is them being led away in handcuffs; Galatea wasn't hit with 'a jolt of electricity' so much as she had ''all of the Watchtower's power'' jammed into her chest. Massive amounts of electricity have been shown to harm even Superman in the past; also, dead bodies twitch sometimes. As for the Ultimen, what did you want them to do, show them melting into puddles? Their episode was over, and we were told explicitly they didn't have long. Sure, there's the whole ShowDontTell thing, but you really don't need to be explicitly shown every little detail.
216* If anything, Galatea was left catatonic in a repentant Hamilton's care. She eventually regains consciousness, suffering from memory loss in the process, but eventually becomes the Powergirl of the DCAU.
217*** Plus, some people like stories that end with "AndTheAdventureContinues..."
218** They forgot about Amazo! (Everyone forgot about Amazo)
219*** Well, the producers did consider putting in a brief shot of him in "Destroyer" sitting on an asteroid wondering if it's safe to return. They just didn't get a chance to.
220*** Actually, it's not that they didn't get a chance to, it's that, uh, they forgot too.
221** Yeah, the fate of Eiling bugs me too, as does whatever happened to Circe. When you think about it, neither of them actually got beaten; they just chose to stop winning. Two massively powerful villains, each with a grudge against one of the big seven, and they're never heard from after their first appearances?
222*** Eiling was forced to face that he had become the very threat he was fighting against and would be viewed that way by the public at large. On a basic level he did genuinely wish to help the people and if the whole public was arrayed against him than there wasn't a point. He had a VillainousBSOD only without the angst.
223*** It is possible that Eiling was fighting "off screen". Hell, as far as Cadmus people go I imagine Amanda Waller and that Colonel who lead Task Force X woulda been out there shooting too. But they only had 22 minutes, so even with their efforts, we didn't see EVERYONE who would likely be fighting. I mean we didn't acually SEE all the League members fighting. Gypsy, Sandman, Crimson Avenger, the mentioned as being in the League but never once shown on screen Plastic Man...we didn't see them doing anything either, so I assume they were just fighting offscreen as well. Or Aquaman and his Atlantean army for that matter, unless I missed it. I mean, I imagine the military and police(and armed citizens) of all nations would be out fighting in that kinda situation, and we didn't really see that either. Sure, woulda been cool if they coulda shown Eiling(and any other villains who were established in universe that weren't on Luthor's spaceship when it went into space, Deadshot or Captain Boomerang for example) in the fight as well but their time was limited.
224** The question of what became of the Justice Lords was dealt with in the ''Justice League Beyond'' tie-in comic, via flashback. Suffice it to say, the situation on their world was quite ugly.
225[[/folder]]
226
227[[folder:Aquaman's super-balance]]
228* In the episode "Ultimatium", where the Justice League meets the CaptainErsatz {{WesternAnimation/Superfriends}}, Aquaman gets a SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome when the "WonderTwin" Downpour hits him with a few thousand gallons of water at full force. Aquaman shrugs and says: "King of the Seas, remember?". So how does Aquaman get the "super-sticky feet" power required to get hit with that much water and remain standing? I understand that he can understand a lot of water pressure on his body, but this was a force lateral to his center of gravity. If I were to smack Queen Elizabeth II with a lintel piece from Stonehenge, would she shrug it off saying: "Queen of England, remember?"? Or is it just RuleOfCool?
229** Aquaman has aquakinesis powers. He probably diverted the vast majority of the water pressure around himself.
230** His body is designed to be strong enough to swim against high-pressure tides and such, so a burst of water from an aquakinetic can't phase him any more than the crashing waves of the sea.
231*** Except a mere 5 minutes before a blast of water from Downpour sent him flying. Maybe it's an injoke to some of the ridiculousness of Superfriends.
232*** Because he thrust his chest out at it. Ie, he's prepared for it.
233** Cartoon physics.
234[[/folder]]
235
236[[folder:Who pays for this stuff?]]
237* The Money. Where does it all come from? I know Bruce funded the original watch tower, sneaking away millions if not billions of dollars some how. But the new one? And enough Javelins to constitute an armada? Not to mention the staffing, maintenance and the wages necessary for something that brings in NO money at all!
238** WAIT I got it; the cafeteria is '''really''' expensive.
239** Batman isn't the only one with huge monetary resources assuming Green Arrow is owner of Queen Industries in the DCAU. Add to that, 50+ superheroes make appearances as part of the post Thanagarian Invasion Justice League either as secondary characters or via cameos. Some of them are extraterrestrial in origin and thus have access to alien technology and there is more than one [[ScienceHero super scientist]] among them. The Justice League could have used these various technologies in the Watchtower's construction. They could be making money off some the less dangerous and more replicable of their members' inventions and/or alien technology they may have brought back from off earth missions. It also helps to have guys who can lift several tons and reach escape velocity unaided, they don't have to pay for a shuttle to get the components in orbit. The Justice League works all across the globe and they've helped multiple governments with natural and man made disasters and lets not forget them saving the world on multiple occasions. Some governments or [[UnclePennybags wealthy civilians]] may sometimes show thanks by donating to the League.
240*** Arrow is definitely rich. In one episode he mentions something about "Just selling a company for 3 billion dollars" then points out "After taxes and legal fees, it really only comes out to 1.5 billion".
241*** Wonder Woman is the princess of Themyscira. Aquaman is King of Atlantis. They've both got access to riches they could dump on the League to help keep it going. Arthur alone probably could drop billions in sunken treasure or doubloons in the pot and not even feel it.
242[[/folder]]
243
244[[folder:The Future Justice League]]
245* In the Batman Beyond episode "The Call", JLU episode "The Once and Future Thing", and the Static Shock episode "Future Shock" the Justice League is shown to apparently only consist of less than a dozen members. While its understandable that some members would have left for their own reasons over time or simply grown too old for super heroics such as the original Batman, other younger heroes should of come to replace the old ones. Some of them don't even age or have very long life spans, example: Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter, and shouldn't have any problems with still being active in the Batman Beyond Era. It seems like there is the implication that at some point the extended League disbanded. It really bugs me there wasn't any explanation given for this.
246** Well, "The Call" was made before the JL series, so it was before the idea of having an expanded League in the first place. As for "The Once and Future Thing," it's mentioned in that episode that Chronos had been exterminating League members and those were the only ones left. I haven't seen "Future Shock," so I can't offer much explanation.
247** The bit about "The Call" makes sense, and after rewatching "The Once and Future Thing" J'onn J'onzz and Wonder Woman were mentioned having been killed when the future Watchtower was destroyed, so they're still part of the future League. In JLU episode "Epilogue" Terry has an ImagineSpot about quitting the League under the belief he's been manipulated into being Batman. Kai-Ro, Aquagirl and Warhawk are only JL members shown, though that may just be because they're the ones Terry is most familiar with. Perhaps the League members in "The Call" are simply the only ones stationed in Metropolis with Superman at the time the episode takes place. What seems weird is that in all the appearances of the future League only the members from "The Call", Static, and are ever shown on screen. Only one thing I still can't think of an explanation for, in "Future Shock" Terry states the reason he needs Past Static's help in rescuing Future Static is that no one else is available, mentioning "the League is off near Alpha Centauri and is on the other side of the world". It seems odd, if the future extended League is anywhere near the size of the present one, all of them would be off on the same mission while only leaving three League members to watch over the Earth.
248*** They let themselves get overstretched in the present day too. In Patriot Act they don't have the manpower to take Eiling.
249** The fact that the future league is called the Justice League Unlimited suggests that there may be other divisions (like a JLA or a JLE), perhaps the JLU being the most prominent or powerful.
250*** They adopted that name in present time, and extra divisions didn't have anything to do with it.
251** They hint in Epilogue and The Once And Future Thing that the orbiting Watchtower is still there and the building we see called the Watchtower in The Call is actually the Metro Tower. That explains where some of the other league members are in The Call. A bit of a clumsy retcon but it works. And amanda states in Epilogue that the future justice league isn't as powerful as the present day one.
252** Wonder Woman's absence is explained in the ''Justice League Beyond'' tie-in comic. She spent decades trapped on the Justice Lords' world aiding Lord Batman in his war against Lord Superman. Interestingly enough, she ''has'' aged somewhat, to about the degree that Superman has.
253** Keep in mind, in the events of The Call, Superman has been under the control of Starro for years. He is also generally acting as leader of the League, and certainly would be the longest tenured member at that time, barring Diana, and assuming Jonn has not returned on a full time basis. Starro/Superman may have sent other members off elsewhere, or better yet, simply kept the rest of the league in the dark about the situation so he could finish carrying out his plan. Who would question Superman, a guy that's been a hero for 50 years, and despite being 80-90 in Earth years, is still pretty much in his physical and mental prime. The only people in the League who ever really questioned or called out Superman were Batman, Green Arrow, and Question, who would all be long retired from League duty at that point, seeing as they were normal humans.
254[[/folder]]
255
256[[folder:Think a little bigger, Roulette!]]
257* So Roulette, apparently with Lex Luthor's help, uses mind control devices in the JL communicators to get the girl heroes to fight each other in cage matches and charge admission/have people place bets on the outcome. Ok, understandably villainous/profitable thing to do, but why, why, WHY, if you could control even a few of the members of the Justice League, wouldn't you instead:
258** Use them to take over the world
259** Have them commit crimes for you and ruin their image
260** If you can only control some of them, make them kill the other members or themselves
261*** Well, assuming Lex used his power of control over all the female heroes you still have a good load of heroes who would stop them killing each other or robbing banks etc to smear their image. The only ones with power levels to cause real issue are Wonder Woman and Supergirl, Hawkgirl could go on the list too, because while her powers are not immense, she is pretty wiley. The rest of them are either low/specific or gadget based powers that a significant portion of the male Leagu members could easily take down. Factor in that Batman keeps files on how to beat everyone, Superman is strong enough and fast enough to catch them and Captain Marvel/Captain Atom would help out, they wouldn't be a prolonged problem. Take the mind control away and you have a League ready to take Lex Down.
262*** Taking over the world would also face similar problems. Say Lex used his tech to control all the members wearing the ear communicator. As far as we have seen, Batman is most often called through his computer and batmobile, I can recall limited instances when the ear one is used (correct me if I am wrong, but I think his communicator is on the utility belt) so that is one of the DCAU's most dangerous heroes loose from Lex's control. Then we are assuming that all Leaguers, no matter what their status, are using the earpiece 24/7. Considering that they have alter-ego's and their own teams, alliances and partnerships, the inactive members who are not on duty could forseeably not have the earpiece on to control them. They could be running interferance while Batman uses Waynetech satalites to kill the control signal, and who's to bet that he has a backdoor on the communication system anyway? So Lex quite sensibly decided to control a few at a time to fight and make him some money, some second stringers who wouldn't be noticed and the big guns on a part time basis. Thus making a tidy profit and chuckling to himself about making the lady Leaguers fight each other.
263*** Thing is, if you're shown as having ACCESS to the League commlinks, why not take the links of some of it's more powerful members? Why not tamper with Superman's commlink, or GL or the Flash? I mean, they got Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl(2 of the original 7), so it's not like they can only get low level second stringers. In regards to the above mentioned scenario, say you take over a group of them and send them out to cause havoc, don't you think the other Leaguers will suit up(which includes putting their commlinks on) if it looks like Superman, WW, and a couple other heavy hitters have gone rogue? And once they do, bam, now you got them as well. Sure, there might be a few you miss, but if you can get most of them, especially the more powerful members...you would have a pretty powerful advantage(especially to the mind of smug supervillains, who pretty much always underestimate their foes). Even IF it only works on women(we aren't told either way rather it does or doesn't), which sorta prevents the "world take over" routine(as mentioned, only WW, Supergirl, and possibly Zatanna are really at a high enough level to pose a threat to the other high level Leaguers) you'd think being able to have a Wonder Woman or Supergirl under your control you could at least find a few more potent uses for them outside of cage matches. Even at the most basic simple level, how bout, I dunno, asking Wonder Woman or Hawkgirl "BTW, do you know the real identity of Batman? What about the Flash?"
264*** Ever hear of something called a "field test"? Testing a mind-control device by forcing League members to cat-fight each other in their sleep whilst making some cash off the fights at the same time sounds like Lex Luthor's involved to me.
265*** The mind control here is pretty basic, more body control really. Those under it's control don't speak or plan, they just perform physical actions when instructed. I think asking for information from them would be pointless since the brain that knows that information seems to be being bypassed rather than altered. As another result of this is if you did try to use them for anything big the rest of the League would very quickly work out what's wrong and likely fix it and then you can't use this trick anymore. Sure, they could do some damage first but Luthor isn't mindlessly destructive; smashing some stuff up isn't going to do anything for him and besides he already has an army of supervillains who will do that stuff willingly if he needs it done. The cage matches fly below the radar. Mind controlling your enemy is only useful long term if they can convincingly fake being normal.
266** Roulette and Luthor both have mental preoccupations that interfere with their ability to see the big picture: Roulette is focused on her Metabrawl operation, and Luthor is obsessed with restoring Brainiac. Thus, they simply latched on to the first idea that seemed promising rather than fully think things through.
267[[/folder]]
268
269[[folder:No easy forgiveness for Hawkgirl]]
270* The original members knew that Shayera wasn't fully informed about the Thanagarian's true plans for Earth in Starcrossed, and they knew that she helped them in the end. So why isn't this public knowledge? This troper is going to assume that the government knew--which could explain why Shayera wasn't incarcerated--but if Vixen and Vigilante's reactions from Hunters Moon are anything to go by, everyone else doesn't know what really happened. Why? Also, in Doomsday Sanctuary we see Shayera at the meeting in the beginning and yet she's not present when they're deciding Doomsday's fate.
271** Even with all that, she ''still'' betrayed the League, and helped with the subjugation of Earth. The invasion wouldn't have happened at all without her being TheMole. Even if she didn't know the true extent of the plans, her actions still directly contributed to putting 7 billion people in danger. As for Vixen and Vigilante, I forget about the former, but Vigilante mentions that he was captured and imprisoned during the invasion, so he's got a personal reason to be pissed at her.
272*** OP here and I get all of that, but Vixen and Vigilante's exchange in "Hunter's Moon" makes it apparent that the public doesn't know the whole story in Starcrossed.
273--->'''Vigilante:''' I thought she betrayed ''us''?
274--->'''Vixen:''' Looks like she betrayed everyone.
275** It's possible they tried to tell everyone the whole story but they weren't able to overcome the wave of anti-Thanagarian hysteria that no doubt gripped the entire Earth after the invasion was thwarted. Most people probably saw it like the above troper described. She may not have known the whole plan, but she was still a willing participant and it never would have happened at all if it hadn't been for her. I mean, just try to imagine that conversation for a moment:
276-->'''Justice League:''' Shayera's not a bad person. She didn't mean for it to go down like that. And when push came to shove she stood with us.
277-->'''General Public:''' You mean she conveniently switched sides when her people were getting their wings handed to them!
278-->'''JL:''' No, I mean...look, that's not the point. She didn't know about the Thanagarians' plan to destroy the Earth, and she wouldn't have supported it if she had.
279-->'''GP:''' [[SarcasmMode Oh really?]] Do you honestly expect us to believe the top spy and personal consort of the supreme leader of the Thanagarian invasion force didn't even know what she was spying on us for? ''Really?'' What evidence is there for that, apart from her word?
280-->'''JL:''' Well...none I guess. But she still stood with us and helped us take down the Thanagarians when it was clear they were planning to destroy the Earth. The point is, when she saw things were going too far she stood up for what's right.
281-->'''GP:''' Yeah? And what about all the stuff they did before that? Martial law? Imprisonment of dissidents? Enslaving humans to build their machines? And, oh yeah, '''spying''' for an alien government?! Was that not "too far" enough for her?
282** And hell, even if they did explain the decision, I could still see people in an uproar that she gets off without punishment. YMMV, but watching the shows from B:tAS all throughout JLU, you can probably pick out a dozen instances of people committing far less serious crimes with far greater mitigating circumstances, and receiving zero leniency. To the man on the street, the sheer magnitude of Hawkgirl's transgresson contrasted with the lack of any penalty must seem like a travesty.
283** It's possible the Justice League simply wouldn't let her be taken into custody without a literal fight. Remember what happens when push comes to shove when Cadmus tries to take Long Shadow. You get two heavy hitters who literally stand in their way, ready to throw down. Seeing as Superman is sympathetic towards Hawkgirl, due to the events of Legacy, and could potentially deserve the same treatment, it's seems plausible.
284** I know it's hard to imagine given that humanity has never faced something similar, but we're talking about the invasion of our planet and enslavement of our entire species by an intergalactic empire. Even if you were to ignore their ultimately apocalyptic intentions, humanity was still broken and subjugated with the help of a woman whose *job* it was to protect them. Earth faces crisis on a weekly basis in the DCAU so humanity's eventual acceptance of Hawkgirl can probably be justified, but in the real world I suspect the public and world governments would completely turn against the JU and demand either justice or Hawkgirl's head on a platter.
285[[/folder]]
286
287[[folder:Kill waterbreathers by drowning]]
288* In the episode ''The enemy below'' why are Superman and Wonder Woman affected by a drowning trap-thing when they were clearly fine with breathing underwater earlier. The two Johns need to concentrate to use their powers (although if this included breathing any martian would be in a bit of a pickle if he couldn't concentrate while on mars) but I didn't think the others did.
289** Superman needs to breath as much as anyone else. Why do you think he always puts on a space suit when he's flying around outside the atmosphere? Ditto Franchise/WonderWoman.
290** Tell you the truth, I think the better question is, why does a society of people who breathe water have an execution device that kills by drowning? It's... completely non-lethal to any of their kind. Do they really execute that many surface dwellers?
291*** Maybe it's an Atlantean execution device being run in reverse. For an Atlantean, they suck water ''out'' of the room and leave them to suffocate in the dry air (the DCU has semi-consistently established that Atlanteans can only survive for a limited time out of the water). For the odd surfacer trespasser, they use the same device but reverse the water pump.
292*** Only that makes no sense because we clearly see water rushing into the Atlantean subs when the are cut open by GL, Superman and Wonder Woman. Which raises the question of why the subs had an air environment when they can clearly breath water.
293*** Because then it'd be a chunk of metal that'd sink. The air counterbalances it, and a slight area is enough to make it sink or rise, aka like the way modern subs work.
294*** It can't be a reverse Atlantean execution device, all of Atlantis has air as noted below. You have to remember these are people hate surface dwellers enough to [[spoiler: build a doomsday device.]] They could've built it just because, or perhaps they started as air-breathing and were essentially a co-ed underwater Themyscira.
295** The better question is why a city full of water-breathers is in a giant air bubble.
296*** Because otherwise they'd have to waste constant resources on guarding the city from sharks eating babies that drift away.
297[[/folder]]
298
299[[folder:Hawkgirl dressing]]
300* How does hawk girl get those sweatshirts on?
301** ...you know, I've been watching this show regularly for something like five years now and I ''never'' considered that. Forget the shirts, which she could theoretically have brought from Thanagar or had specifically tailored, what about that dress she wore? She doesn't have the time to get somebody to produce a tailor-made dress that could fit around her wings on the short-notice of her date with Carter Hall, she just ''has it''. Sure, she looks great in it, but where did it come from?
302*** Actually the dress isn't a headscratcher at all. It's an ordinary dress with a back low enough that her wings aren't a problem. She can simply step into it and pull the straps up. Her original top wasn't a problem for this either. But think about her trying to put on those pull over sweatshirts with two huge wings in the way.
303** Given she starts wearing the sweatshirts after she betrays basically ''everybody'', my guess the sweatshirt is a form of penance. Since wings are largely just a different kind of arm, she could pull the shirt over her head and then force her wings through the hole(s) in the back. It'd stretch the sweatshirt and probably hurt a lot but how to take it ''off'' without destroying it is a mystery.
304** If memory serves, when she reappeared in JLU (which is also when she started to wear sweatshirts) she was hanging out with Doctor Fate. So, maybe... [[AWizardDidIt you know]].
305** I'd always assumed Velcro or snaps.
306[[/folder]]
307
308[[folder:Offscreen mass murder in "Kid Stuff"]]
309* Maybe I'm overthinking this, but did anybody else catch the FridgeHorror in this episode? Mordred transported ''every adult on Earth to another dimension simultaneously''. Sure, things were pretty well under control in the theme park where all of the action took place, but the rest of the world? Every car on every road on the planet just wrecked. Every plane in the sky just crashed. Any child receiving an operation in any hospital worldwide could only hope to bleed to death before the anesthetic wore off, and the number of infants dying from the four foot drop when mommy's suddenly teleported out, by itself, had to be in the thousands. Sure, we got shown a happy ending, but logically, every city in the developed world should have been in flames, and at least a quarter of the world's children should have died by misadventure.
310** Do we know how wide Mordred's spell was? Maybe it only affected a small area, and when the government and Justice League realized something was happening, they tried to keep as many people away from the area as possible. Maybe Mordred didn't want those younger than him to die under his reign, so he saved the babies. The truth is, we end up with so little from the story, the fridge horror is still up in the air.
311** Re-watched the episode. Morgaines's exact dialogue was that the spell affected "all adults", which I took to mean all adults on earth. Though I may have taking that too literally.
312[[/folder]]
313
314[[folder:A map from the future]]
315* A minor one that might even be a nitpick, but in episode 25 of season 1 we briefly see a map of the world (while at Blackhawk Island) that clearly shows a North and South Korea. The problem is that those two nations wouldn't even be created as Soviet and American controlled zones until 1945. Usually it might just be a mistake of using the wrong map but this is an animated show. Someone had to actually choose to put in the words 'N. Korea' and 'S. Korea'.
316** Blackhawk Island might not necessarily have been sealed away immediately, unless I'm forgetting something. Depending on how long it took them to gather all that crap, an updated map wouldn't be out of the question.
317*** At the time the episode takes place, there simply wouldn't be any South or North Korea's to exist on maps. The best answer is probably the animators tried too hard for accuracy and didn't think to check the dates.
318[[/folder]]
319
320[[folder:What measure is an alien invader?]]
321* In the first three episodes of ''Justice League'' the team seems to have no problem melting a large number of alien invaders to death. Admittedly those aliens did seem to plan to wipe out the human race, but this is the same universe where killing Luthor to stop a nuclear war was treated as [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope going too far]]. Are these people operating under the assumption that someone only deserves to live if they ''look'' human? It's even worse considering the number of nonhumans on the team or acquainted with it.
322** It wasn't ''just'' killing Luthor that was too far. It was ''Superman'' killing him in cold blood when he had other options. And then proceeding to take over the world. The rest of the League has variously had considerably less problem with killing in battle (Wonder Woman in particular); the Thanagarian invasion and when they went back to World War II stand out--and WhatMeasureIsANonHuman is hardly unique to this series anyway.
323** It wasn't just that they killed Luthor. Hell, it wasn't even just that Superman killed Luthor. It was the ''reason'' Superman killed Luthor that was [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope going too far]]. Here's the exact conversation that took place (courtesy of Wikiquotes):\
324@@[[labelnote:Footnoted for space]]''[The Justice League is attacking the White House, with Luthor in the\
325Oval Office]''\
326'''Lex Luthor:''' ''[to himself]'' They couldn't see the beauty! No imagination! They'd rather fight!\
327''[Superman bursts into the office]''\
328'''Superman:''' Even this wasn't enough for you, was it? You had to have it all. Now we're on the brink\
329of a war that could destroy the whole planet!\
330'''Lex Luthor:''' ... Could've been so perfect... paradise...\
331'''Superman:''' And I let it get this far because of the law. And the will of the people.\
332'''Lex Luthor:''' ''[laughing]'' The people?! This is all their fault! And they're gonna burn for it! Burn!\
333'''Superman:''' You're nothing but a mad dog now, aren't you?\
334'''Lex Luthor:''' Ooh, a threat! But this old dog still has a few teeth!\
335''[Pulls out a drawer with a control box, and poises his finger above a red button. There is a pause.]''\
336'''Superman:''' There are at least six different ways I can stop you right now.\
337'''Lex Luthor:''' But they all involve deadly force, don't they? And you don't do that.\
338''[Superman is silent]''\
339'''Lex Luthor:''' No. You need me. You wouldn't be much of a hero without a villain, and you do love\
340being a hero, don't you? The cheering children, the swooning women - you love it so much, it's\
341made you my most reliable accomplice!\
342'''Superman:''' Accomplice?! What're you--\
343'''Lex Luthor:''' You could have crushed me any time you wanted. And it wasn't the law or the will of\
344the people that stopped you - it was your ego. Being a hero was too important to you. You're as much\
345responsible for this as I am! So go ahead, fix it somehow. Put me on trial, lock me up - but\
346I'll beat it. And then we'll start the whole thing all over again.\
347'''Superman:''' ... I did love being a hero. But if this is where it leads... I'm done with it.\
348''[Superman's eyes begin to glow]''[[/labelnote]]@@
349As you can see, the dialogue makes it clear that Superman essentially discarded his entire moral code when he decided to kill Luthor. And he wasn't sad that he was forced to kill Luthor, he was HAPPY about it. THAT was the slippery slope moment, not the act of killing itself.
350** It's not just aliens who get short thrift, either. Check out how the JL gleefully smash huge airliners crammed full with German soldiers a few thousand feet above the empty ocean in the "Savage Time" battle over the Atlantic. Granted, those deaths are offscreen, but you don't have to be a genius to figure out they're racking up a huge body count. It's less WhatMeasureIsANonHuman and more WhatMeasureIsAMook. And, out of universe, what gets by the watchdogs.
351[[/folder]]
352
353[[folder:Aquaman is a board member? Why?]]
354* Why is Aquaman allowed in the Leagues founding members room so casually. I thought you had to be a founder for that. The only other time I remember non-founders, being allowed in the founding member room was when Captain Marvel quit, and when Question found out their dirty little secret. Could he have honorary founders status or something... He did work with them a few times in the original series, and they did consider him as a replacement member when they thought Supes was dead.
355** The Founding Seven walked in one day and he was already sitting in one of the chairs, with his feet on the table and his eyebrows at Maximum Scowl. Somehow they just never got around to asking him to leave.
356** It is also possible that they asked him to replace Hawkgirl, and became a defacto "original" member, before they decided to do the whole "let's try to get as many heroes as possible" thing. It would also make sense, in matters that required a vote, one can never have a tie when an odd number of people are voting on the subject (assuming everybody votes, that is). Or they needed to give him extra powers to convince Aqua-man to take time away from his KINGDOM to be part of the justice league.
357*** There's a subtle hint about that in Hereafter. When they're suggesting replacements for the "dead" Superman, not only was he suggested as a replacement, he was actually CHOSEN as a replacement. If you watch later in the episode, when Supers gets to the destroyed Watchtower in the future and brings up the roster screen, it shows the original 6 PLUS Aquaman. So at least in that reality, that Aquaman was the one who replaced Supes after he "died". Sure that reality was prevented, but perhaps sometime before the full expansion of the League he was the first member who joined(perhaps as the above poster mentioned, as a replacement for Hawkgirl) and was then treated as part of the "group".
358*** Or Superman could have brought Aquaman aboard as a reserve/alternate member after the aforesaid jaunt into the future much the same way Green Arrow was offered a spot in the opening of JLU.
359[[/folder]]
360
361[[folder:Supergirl's French leave]]
362* Am I the only one that finds Supergirl's staying in the future utterly ridiculous, stupid, and forced? She has a few lines of dialogue with a boy she's never met before, suddenly she's so in love with him that she abandons everyone she's ever known without even saying goodbye in person, without ever being able to see them again? Yeah, I know, 'growing out from under Superman's shadow', but this part of her character is ''never brought up before'' so it comes right out of the blue. And now she's lost her family ''again''. Plus, as a fan of hers, it kind of seems disrespectful to the character to put her on a LongBusTrip, and right before the finale!.
363** The writers were probably getting rid of Supergirl because it's like having 2 Supermans with her around, which makes the fact that ANYBODY can beat the massive expanded League even more ridiculous than it already is.
364** The ''real'' reason is that they wanted to spin off ''Legion of Superheroes'' into its own series, with Supergirl serving as the link.
365** "Everyone she's ever known" for less than 5 years, the bulk of which has been spent on the Kent Farm trying to be a 'normal Teenager'... Really the only people she's not saying good bye too is the league, Ma & Pa Kent, and Maybe Jimmy Olson... and I'm pretty sure she expressly stated she's been struggling with life in early 21st Century Kansas having known Kryptonian Technology as a child and that 31st Century Earth is closer to Krypton's tech levels.
366** Ma and Pa became like parents to her, and 5 years is a long time. That she'd just leave without at least saying goodbye is unthinkable. Not to mention the plot point you mentioned was ''never'' brought up before this episode, and 31st century earth isn't really anything like Argo either. All of this is compounded by the fact that she did it all for a boy she just met!
367** Sixteen-year-olds have been known to make hasty decisions from time to time. And it's not like it's irreversible; she can always take another "time bus" back to the present if she decides she made the wrong choice, or even just to visit.
368*** She wasn't 16; the "present" of the episode was stated to take place on her 21st birthday.
369*** Again she can come back if she changes her mind. Plus as is brought up in the episode while Supergirl may be doing well as a hero Kara is still very out of place in human society due to it's relatively primitive nature. By the 30th century human tech has more or less caught up with what she's used to.
370[[/folder]]
371
372[[folder:J'onn's StoryBreakerPower]]
373* If anyone can provide a decent HandWave as to why he didnt instantly resolve the Cadmus mystery by mind reading Luthor or Waller, or why he doesn't easily defeat almost any enemy with his intangibility, I'd be much obliged.
374** Ultimately the same reason why Superman forgets he's close enough to the Flash in speed for them to have races and has ice breath. He simply forgets that he has powers that he's not accustomed to using all the time. As for why didn't he mind read them I'm not sure what Cadmus mystery you're specifically referring to. Mind reading probably doesn't work well on Lex. He might not be Batman but he's likely figured out enough tricks that mind readers either get nothing or exactly what he wants them to get from him, as for Waller what did she know that would have changed anything had the League known? The extent of her plan is the well intentioned if poorly executed point that if the League turned on the Earth nothing and nobody could stop them and she fears for her country. Heck in the past one brainwashed Superman has been a threat they couldn't handle (though for no obvious reason none of the other heroes showed up and none of the villains one would expect to step up did either. One would expect Lex, Metallo, quite possibly Toyman(either one) and anybody else who calls Earth home to have shown up against Darkseid but that's another question all together.) Reading Waller probably wouldn't have resulted in anything more than reading the General would have. I love my country and won't leave it undefended against aliens with an orbital death cannon.
375
376** It is entirely possible that Martian Manhunter reads people's minds on a regular basis. However, in order to read someone's mind your own mind has to be in direct contact with the target's thoughts. Given the level of "intimacy" that implies, I can imagine J'onn would want to limit his mental contact with the likes of Lex Luthor and the other psychopaths he deals with on a regular basis. Also, non-telepath races appreciate the illusion of privacy of their own thoughts. Maybe that's why the overall portrayal of J'onn is as terse, secretive and private person. It's been said in universe that meditation or training (like Batman's) can help you obscure your thoughts from telepaths. Also, heavily improvising or otherwise acting without a conscious plan gives very little warning for a telepath to pick up on. The Joker benefits from this immensely. J'onn may receive tons of warning about a sniper lining up a shot, but his telepathy completely useless against stray bullets. Intangibility makes Martian Manhunter nearly invulnerable and lets him survive in vacuum but he still can't really "touch" anything. trying to re-materialize his hand in say, someone's brain, is murder. And heroes don't do that in the DCU. Not to mention what that could potentially do to J'onn's hand.
377*** Assuming that Crisis on Two Earths can be treated as an accurate display of MM's powers apparently re-materializing your hand around someone's heart is an incredibly dickish thing to do but not particularly dangerous to anybody.
378
379** Long story short, half the League (J'onn, The Flash, Superman and GL) got beaten with the Nerf stick, otherwise we'd have had a very short show.
380** "Task Force X" shows that Cadmus has found a way to block telepathy.
381** Martian Manhunter is Lawful Good, and "I read his mind" doesn't hold up in court. Also, he's on the Watchtower the entire time, so he never comes into contact with Waller or Luthor.
382** Seeing as Cadmus is meant to defend Earth against a rogue superpowered army, if Waller, or any high ranking member of Cadmus found out that a member of the League was acting as the thought police and probing their minds, it would lend a huge amount of credibility to the importance of Cadmus.
383[[/folder]]
384
385[[folder:How did Amazo use Superman's powers at night time?]]
386Amazo copied Superman's powers at NIGHT TIME. He didn't have any capacity to absorb the solar radiation that gives Superman his powers before he copied Superman, so how on earth could he use them the instant he copied him?
387* Amazo copied Superman's powers when he was already powered. Also, there is still solar radiation at night.
388** That doesn't work. If he doesn't copy the mechanism by which the biological system has its powers, but just replicates the powers itself, then he wouldn't be weak to kryptonite, because he wouldn't have any solar cells to be harmed. Plus, in Superman the Animated Series, which is canon to this show, it took several hours minimum in daytime for a kryptonian to gain full power. There's no way there would be enough solar radiation at night for Amazo to reach full power immediately unless he can somehow generate solar energy himself, and if he can have abilities he didn't copy from people, that makes his entire character not make sense.
389*** Amazo copies your current state of being weapons and all. From Hawkgirl he got her mace presumably nth metal and all, Wonder Woman's bracelets and a fully charged lantern ring. If you want to say Justice League Amazo doesn't make sense that's true but him copying Superman at current strength makes more sense than him being able to use Green Ring energy which runs off will power and this was before he started developing enough personality to be considered sentient.
390*** Perhaps he copies abilities and powers them with whatever makes his robotic self tick?
391** If he can create a fully powered Lantern ring then creating enough solar energy to power a kryptonian would be simple.
392[[/folder]]
393
394[[folder:Dr. Destiny/John Dee being a Luthor fanboy]]
395* Let me get this straight... John Dee wants to be noticed by Luthor and the other villains, the same Luthor who cost him his freedom AND his marriage. His employer secretly smuggled weapons, his wife leaves him for another guy, and he is locked up for a long time. What does he do with his powers? He goes after the Justice League. Okay, they WERE responsible for his arrest, but why not go after Luthor, too?
396** In Dee's mind, it wasn't Luthor's fault, it was Justice League's. To twist the perspective: imagine that you spend years working hard to get into the (expanded) Justice League, only for some jerkass to come and dump you into prison for something you did as part of your plan to join the League. Would you be angry at the Justice League or the jerkass?
397** Listen to Destiny's motive rant to Batman. Dee considers the League responsible for ruining his life and not even noticing. He's a small powerless man who got jailed for working for Luthor which as far as he might have known was a legitimate businessman. Dee is using the power he gained to try to crush the league because he was jealous of their power, so he's trying to tear them down to make himself feel powerful. Besides, who said he wasn't going to go after Luthor eventually? The league were his greatest threat anyway but chances are if Dee had succeeded he would've gone after Luthor and anyone else in his life who ever snubbed him.
398[[/folder]]
399
400[[folder:Batman being a jerk to Superman for attacking Darkseid]]
401* I know Batman supposed to be stoic, but doesn't Superman have a right to be angry? Darkseid brainwashed him, killed a great cop, and turned him against the earth. I seriously doubt Batman would work with Joker after what he did to Tim Drake. The whole "cry me a river" line was uncalled for.
402** That was Batman's way of goading Superman into action rather than letting him step away from the conflict. Superman wanted to back off and let Apokolips and Darkseid be assimilated by Brainiac, but Batman knew first that Brainiac had to be stopped then and there, or he would menace other worlds in turn, and second that they couldn't do it without Superman's help.
403*** It also be noted that the last time Bruce Wayne encountered Braniac, he had been mind-controlled into nearly destroying the Earth. Or, at least, I think it might of been the last time. I'm not sure how the timeline of the "Batman/Superman Adventures" fits with "Justice League Unlimited". My point is, though, that Batman might be upset about that and projecting his unresolved anger onto Superman's for Darkseid.
404[[/folder]]
405
406[[folder:Legion of Doom had the ability to mind control the Justice League]]
407In "Grudge Match" the Legion of Doom has gained the ability to mind control members of the Justice League , and they use it to.. make female members fight for entertainment.. Roulette I could see doing this, but Luthor supplied the tech and I have a hard time believing he'd waste this for such a petty purpose.
408* You're not thinking about it enough. First, Luthor is completely obsessed with regaining Brainiac, he doesn't care about conquering the Earth or destroying the League anymore, everything the Legion of Doom is doing is so he can benefit and further that goal. Second, keeping low profile was netting them a great deal of cash which Lex was using to fund his operations (see the first point). Third, the constant fights were taking their tolls on the female League members, leaving them injured and weakened with nobody knowing why. Black Canary, the best fighter in the league was worn out to the point where a pick pocket was able to out fight her. If this had continued the villains would have been able to take advantage of it as every female hero would have been too weak to fight back and casualties would have eventually resulted. In conclusion: they're playing a long game with great benefit instead of blowing it all on a big power play that would have been doomed to fail. If Huntress hadn't had a rivalry with Black Canary going the villains wouldn't have been caught anytime soon,
409[[/folder]]
410
411[[folder:Amazo's power and creating rings.]]
412Amazo's power is that he can mimic the powers of any super being he can see. He doesn't copy Batman because Batman doesn't have any powers but he does have gadgets. It's important because Green Lantern doesn't have powers either, he has a power ring. He could hand the ring to anybody and they'd be a Green Lantern but that doesn't stop Amazo from copying it. Now with that in mind why aren't people mass producing power rings? Clearly they aren't impossible to dupicate with Earth level tech and an Earth Special Forces unite armed with Green Lantern powers would go a long way towards putting us on the map.
413* A couple reasons. First is that there were about a grand total of two people who could build something like Amazo. One died after creating it, and the other was not about use his brilliance for anyone's benefit besides himself. Second was that Amazo did not just copy powers but he also copied personality traits like Wally's flirtatious habits. This is important because Green Lantern rings don't just work for anyone. They 'choose' exceptionally brave individuals because willpower fortifies them. Without it, Green Lantern constructs are about as strong as wet tissue paper. Amazo duplicated whatever traits made John Stewart worthy of the power ring in addition of the ring itself. That's not to say Earth Specials Forces wouldn't have a deficit of bravery and will power but it would lead to the third reason: it would be stepping on the toes of the Guardians of the Universe. They are the ones who first developed the original Green Lantern Power Battery as well as the rings, and they were the ones who founded the Green Lantern Corps. It's not their policy to arm more than a handful of a given species and only justice minded individuals. One robot that copies their tech as a stepping stone in its own evolution is something for the Earth Lantern to handle. The Earth suddenly creating its own homemade lantern corps as a military force however is a Manhunter-like threat.
414[[/folder]]
415
416[[folder:Thanagarians' other options]]
417* Why did the Thanagarians need the hyperspace bypass to be on Earth? Sure, the route for their bypass apparently had to go through our solar system, but on an interstellar scale the distance between Earth and Mars is so trivial as to be not even be worth mentioning. So why not use the planet that no longer has any life on it, and thus doesn't have anybody that could even attempt to interfere with your plan? Even if they didn't give a damn about whether people would die because of their bypass, it'd have still been quicker and easier for the Thanagarians to use an uninhabited planet.
418** We don't really know how long this has been the plan and while I'm sure it's mentioned at some point in the Comics the show never makes it clear at all how old Martian Manhunter is or how long his society has been gone. So the choice might not have been between an uninhabited planet and an inhabited one but one inhabited by two breeds of similarly absurdly powerful races or a planet with humans. Amazons are sufficiently rare that most Earthlings don't know about them, Supes is from a bit out of town I imagine the GL Corps must normally not interfere with them much. Even if they'd known all about these being not via Hawkgirl but prior to even choosing Earth I'd STILL choose and the Justice League vs a planet filled with Martian Manhunters!
419*** Yeah, but they'd sent Shayera as an advanced scout. Why didn't ''she'' send the word that "Earth is full of aliens with powers, plus there's Green Lantern presence that might call the entire GL Corps for backup. But good news, those shape-shifting super-strong Martians went extinct a few years ago so we've got an empty planet where we could built our bypass and have it done before anybody even notices."
420** Perhaps the device won't work unless it's on an Earth-sized planet because of the gravity well or something -- if so, Mars is probably too small (and Venus isn't a practical alternative given its utterly hostile surface conditions).
421* In ''Starcrossed'', why couldn't the Thanagarians just ask the Justice League to help them on their home planet against the Gordanians instead of lying to them and tricking them into building a device to destroy Earth in order to warp them to the Gordanians home world? The Gordanian fleet had been near Thanagar for so long, that they kept sending army after army to destroy Thanagar. Had the Thanagarians not made themselves enemies of the League, the latter would've been more than willing to help them. The League would never turn down those who would've needed their help. The Thanagarians clearly looked like they needed League assistance, but decieving them and trying to destroy Earth to save their home world was just the deal breaker. After all, the Thanagarians are aware of the Justice League's reputation, so the could've just scrapped the plan to build the hyperspace bypass generator early on, and instead just ask the League to assist them in Thanagar, so that the League could use their superpowers and skills to destroy the Gordanian mothership and defeat their commander and probably a good amount of their fleet. The seven Leaguerers are just so powerful, that asking their assistance against their enemies would save the Thanagarians the burden of having to deceive the heroes as well as a complex plan that would destroy other planets. Doing so would also prevent Thanagar from being conquered, and put a huge dent to the Gordanians.
422** One obvious possibility is that the Thanagarians are [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy too proud]] to ask for help when they see any chance of winning on their own and/or too full of themselves to believe that a bunch of offworlders are really great and powerful enough to tip the balance of the war.
423** I think you are also vastly overestimating the League. Repelling a one-time alien invasion is one thing, but fighting a vast alien empire is another. The Gordianians have a vast empire streatching over many worlds that would have been brought to bear against Earth. And as the show made clear some of the larger alien spaceships or weapons could kill Superman. The Thangarians only left Earth after their plans had been thwarted and they did not have any more resources to spare. Darkseid's first invasion was only defeated thanks to the intervention of New Genesis and his second was after Apokolips's fleet had been destroyed by New Genesis and its own military weakened by years of civil war. How many civilians died when Apokolips' forces were randomly blasting cities and the League was busy battling parademons. So, I don't think the League would get involved because it simply did not have the resources to fight an interstellar empire and attempting to do so would endanger Earth.
424*** Doubtful. The war seems to be eating up a lot of resources from both sides. It's highly unlikely the Gordanians would divert a significant portion of their fleet to deal with the homeland of what they would probably see as mercenaries and if they did the Thanagarians would take advantage of it. It seems rather clear that they don't care about Earth or it's inhabitants. Using the Earth as a distraction would probably have a lot of appeal to them.
425*** You still have the problem of dragging Earth into an interstellar war that unnecessarily threatens Earth. At best, Earth's heroes are away from Earth for a long period of time leaving Earth defenseless or the Gordanians eventually kill Earth's heroes leaving it defenseless. At worst, Earth becomes a target for the Gordanians. And we don't know if it would require a significant portion of their fleet. Hro Talak mentioned the lives of tens of billions of Thanagairans at stake. Assuming the Gordanians have a similar population they might be able to conquer or destroy Earth with what they view as a small task force. Either way it is none of Earth's business and the risks far outweigh any potential gain. The Thangarians would not care enough about Earth and would gladly risk it. However, I don't see the Justice League being willing to take the risk even if asked.
426** Perhaps this is made clearer in the comics, the show doesn't give us a lot of reasons to believe the Thanagarians are the good guys in this conflict. Certainly not blameless enough to draw the Justice League into a conflict that didn't involve the Earth in anyway.
427*** From what I've heard about Thanagar in the comics post-crisis at least they are little different than the Gordanians. Maybe a bit less bloodthirsty, but an expansionist empire that conquers other worlds and engages in slavery. So it is one of those times where neither side is "good." You might call it the lesser of two evils, but that is it. In the end, Earth did not have anything to really gain from siding with Thanagar and there was no really "good side" to support.
428** OK, first of all, if the Justice League left Earth and they were killed by the Gordanians, there are still a few hundred superheroes on Earth that would still carry out Superman's legacy. After all, even before these heroes joined the expanded league, they weren't going to stand around while evil threatens their homes and those they care about. As of ''Hereafter'', we have seen that Superman has come a long way since the incident where he was brainwashed by Darkseid. Even if he dies, other heroes will continue to serve his memory, as we have seen in episodes that took place in the far future. Second, the Gordanians are nothing compared to Darkseid, who himself is an evil overlord of a huge empire. All it took to completely stop Apokolips from being a threat was for the League to pull a DecapitatedArmy trope, which they did in ''Twilight''.
429*** Apokolips was vulnerable to DecapitatedArmy because Darkseid had built an all-pervasive personality cult around himself and his godhood; taking him out (which was far from easy and was partially due to circumstantial factors) dealt a massive blow to the morale of his minions, who were all largely self-serving bastards anyway who went straight to fighting to fill a power vacuum. Neither the Gordanians nor Thanagar are Apokolips, and by all appearances they far more united and not as slavishly dependant on a single all-powerful leader, not to mention both sides are fighting a war of survival against a determined enemy. Killing their leaders- assuming this is possible (easier to kill than Darkseid sure, but for that exact reason also less likely to put themselves in a position to be killed) would not have the same effect that killing the leader of Apokolips did, because the system of governance is quite different.
430[[/folder]]
431
432[[folder:Was "Legends" supposed to air before "In Justice for all"?]]
433* For some odd reason, Luthor's face is hidden in "Legends" even though he appeared episodes before this one. The way they hid his face suggest this was his first appearance in the Justice League cartoon.
434** Most certainly. Every DCAU show that wasn't Static Shock, The Zeta Project or JLU had its episodes produced and aired out of order.
435[[/folder]]
436
437[[folder:How can Clark fight crime, hang out with the league, and still work at the Daily Planet?]]
438* Did Bruce Timm forget about Clark's job as a reporter? We see Superman with the league most of the time. Makes me wonder why Perry White and Lois never suspect Clark of slacking off.
439** He isn't fighting crime as much precisely ''because'' the Justice League are around; crime is going down overall because there are more crimefighters around and they are better organized. Maybe the reason we see him with the League so much isn't because he's got more on his plate but rather because he has ''less'' and has more free time, which he spends with the League since that is much more efficient than fighting crime or solving problems all by his lonesome.
440[[/folder]]
441
442[[folder:Batman the team practice slacker]]
443* In "Secret Society," why is Batman of all people the one who is against having team practice? He claims that it's wasting time, but considering that he trains extensively when he's not fighting anyway, shouldn't it be considered out-of-character for him not to have backed Green Lantern in having team practice?
444** You have to ask why Mr. "I Work Better Alone" is against practicing with a team?
445*** Mr. "I Work Better Alone" is the only member of the Justice League who routinely works as part of a group. Batman The Animated Series is considered canon and by the end he was almost never seen without Batgirl and/or Robin. Even Nightwing got some love. None of the others even have dedicated sidekicks. I find it nearly impossible to believe that the Batfamily never ran drills as a group. Knowing your team's strengths and weaknesses is a must and it is a bit odd that Batman was the one who called it out. Especially when Superman is (in combat) more central to the group and has every reason to believe "If I can't handle it the rest of you bitches are screwed anyway." and refuse to train with his distraction squad.
446*** Correction: Batman is the only member of the Justice League who routinely works as the ''absolute leader'' of a group. Robin and Batgirl take orders from Batman, and Batman does not consider them equal peers; and even then, a whole lot of BTAS has Batman operating without either of them, and there are several times he orders one of them to stay out of it. By contrast, the Justice League is a group he doesn't command, and everyone there is supposed to be an equal peer. Batman's used to having sidekicks as backup that he can command, not being part of a group of more powerful people he can't command.
447** Maybe it is just another manifestation of Bruce's own neurosis/psychosis regarding the event that caused him to become Batman. He's pushing them away before he gets too emotionally involved, being a full member of a team is too much like being a full member of a family. He can't handle that because his last family was killed in front of him. So if he doesn't join in fully, then they can't hurt him by leaving (or by being killed).
448*** Another thing to consider is this is while they're all being psychically influenced by Grodd. He's pushing them to say and do things they otherwise wouldn't. So maybe under ''normal'' circumstances, Batman can push aside his loner tendencies to work with a group just fine, but with Grodd reaching in and messing with him, it overrides his logic.
449** Batman's objections are framed in terms of team practice being a waste of time. That suggests that the root cause of his objection is his feeling that the League is distracting him from the job of cleaning up the streets of Gotham City.
450[[/folder]]
451
452[[folder:...and many others]]
453* Where would the founding members of the League go in the four-temperament ensemble? I know there are seven of them, but I've been thinking about this one for a while. Batman is definitely melancholic, Superman is phlegmatic, Hawkgirl is probably choleric, and Flash is sanguine, although I'm not so sure about Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Green Lantern.
454** Not every ensemble fits into that. Just like FiveManBand doesn't fit every work.
455
456* So I read there are five seasons on the trope page, but I can only find four seasons of the show on iTunes. Is there a reason, or am I missing something?
457** It was more that the first of the JLU seasons was two half seasons when it aired and are just treated as one afterward.
458
459* Why isn't Booster Gold involved in any of the episodes dealing with time travel?
460** I'm gonna go with "irony".
461** Because he's busy doing crowd control.
462** Unless they go to his era he'd be no more relevant to time travel than anyone else. As such only the Legion episode would have made sense for him.
463
464* In the episode "Dead Reckoning", Grodd uses genetic tech to transform human DNA into ape DNA. Normally, science tomfoolery aside, I could accept this. My only problem with it is that it also transformed Superman. You know, the alien who is not from this planet and isn't human?
465** "Species" is generally defined by individuals' resemblance to one another and their ability to interbreed. While I'm pretty sure the current comics' stand is that you can't mix humans and Kryptonians, some out of continuity one-shots from Alan Moore and John Byrne have showed Lois and Clark producing viable offspring, as did "Superman Returns". I just assume that the Diniverse works that way; Kryptonians and homo sapiens have similar enough DNA to interbreed, Kryptonians went through a simian evolutionary stage, and Grodd's gizmo acted on that DNA to create "Super Monkey".
466** Out of Universe the writers probably forgot somehow they were dealing with one human, one Amazon and one Kryptonian. While it's possible, probable even that Kryptonians had a similar evolutionary path (ignoring that while sharing an evolutionary ancestor humans did not evolve from gorillas) I'm not sure about all Amazons but Diana didn't evolve from anything! At the time Justice League was made she was formed from clay and given life by the gods. So Grodd is simply wrong. The device doesn't de-evolve things. It turns them into gorillas. The real answer is the writers forgot.
467
468* Why the hell does everybody believe that nimrod in "Eclipsed" who keeps mocking the Justice League after they've REPEATEDLY SAVED THE EARTH? Are they just [[UngratefulBastard idiots]] like civilians in comic books?
469** The popularity of celebrities waxes and wanes both in the real world and in comics. Eclipsed seems to be set at a time when the League's popularity was waning slightly (I blame the Flash) and Gordon Godfrey saw an opportunity to whip that mild discontent into a frenzy.
470
471* "Wake the Dead": Wait, how could Superman "break the tie" regarding Hawkgirl's status in the League? Without her, there are six possible votes total. If there is a tie, the decision should be deadlocked because there isn't an odd member who can cast a deciding vote. They could obviously resolve the tie somehow, but you couldn't call it breaking a tie...
472** Green Lantern says outright that he recused himself from the vote, either in the episode they voted, or later.
473** If Green Lantern voted for her to stay, it would have seemed biased because he'd had a personal relationship with her. And if he voted for her to go, it ''could'' have seemed as if he was trying to go with everyone else's choice rather than his own.
474
475* In "Wild Card", why doesn't Batman just jam the airwaves or highjack them? [[SarcasmMode It's not like supervillains in the DC universe (hell, supervillains in general) do that all the time or anything.]]
476** And what good would that have done?
477** By the time Joker revealed that the whole thing was just a pretext to get people tuned in for the Mass Hypnosis Hour, Batman was fighting the Jack. While Wayne Enterprises probably has jamming technology somewhere, the controls for it presumably are not on the Bat-belt.
478** Joker has taken control of multiple forms of media in the DCAU before and after (ROTJ), and Batman has had no success in jamming them other than going to the source and beating him. As the DCAU hints and ROTJ pretty much confirms, despite Joker's insanity, he's as much, if not more of a scientific and manipulative genius as Bruce or Lex.
479
480* Why was Sinestro on Earth, helping Grodd and then Luthor?
481** Grodd said he was in the Secret Society because he'd sworn an oath against all Green Lanterns. (Which explains nothing, but it's the best they give us officially.)
482** Earth is quite possibly the best place to go Green Lantern hunting. While Justice League only officially names one, John Stewart, Justice League is part of the same cannon as Superman: The Animated Series. Which means Hal Jordon should be floating around somewhere. Kyle Raynor and/or Guy Gardner may also be present in some form or another or at least consider the place close enough to 'home' that if you want to make their lives hell there is no place better to hang around.
483** He'd heard about Project Cadmus and tyranny-in-the-name-of-safety sounded like his kind of fun, but he showed up too late.
484
485* How do Green Lanterns travel from star system to star system? We never see one fly faster than a jet, and in Eclipsed, it's even a plot point that John can't go light speed.
486** Green Lanterns may not be able to fly at light speed, but it's a matter of fact that they can travel faster than light by means of hyperspeed or wormholes. What John couldn't do in that episode was achieve the necessary conventional speed to activate the wormhole drive on the Javelin when they disconnected it.
487
488* "This Little Piggy". Now, [[Tropers/RahalimusPrime this troper]] can be a bit thick, but what, precisely, was it that Batman gave up in exchange for Circe undoing her spell?
489** Dignity.
490** His reputation.
491** One of his secrets.
492** You do realize that she has just made 'The GD D@mn Batman' perform a Vintage Love Ballad to what appears to be an all male audience, while in Full costume. I'm pretty sure there are all kinds of sacrifice in that situation.
493
494** Control. She made him do something he would never have thought to, let alone wanted to, do.
495
496
497* How did the Watchtower got built so very quickly? For reference, in ''Paradise Lost'', Wonder Woman said she left her home island 8 months ago, meaning there's less than a year between ''Paradise Lost'' and ''Secret Origins''. It's possible Superman, J'onn J'onzz, Hawkgirl and maybe Green Lantern gave a hand since they have alien technological expertise. But a scene at the end of ''Secret Origins'' implied that everyone saw the Watchtower for the first time, meaning Batman was the only involved in the project. Also, it would take normally years just to come up with the concepts, designs and schematics. Bruce has a space division exploration, but how do have your employees work on the Watchtower without tipping them off they're really working for the League?
498** It wouldn't shock me at all to find out that Batman has plans for his own War World tucked away somewhere encase he needs it. Probably. Like a LOT of things Batman does he clearly has a lot of mechanics who are paid huge sums of money not to ask a lot of questions. It's not just Lucas over at Waynetech, there are people who make his Batarangs, who work on the Batmobile, etc etc. He doesn't have the time to do it all himself. How he managed to sneak it into space is a mystery though, we have so many telescopes aimed at the sky all over the world all the time that it doesn't seem possible at all that nobody noticed the launch or if he built it in space once it got larger than say a dump truck someone still should have noticed.
499
500* Is there two seasons of JLU or three? While there is a tone difference between ''Initiation'' through ''The Once and Future Thing, Part 2: Time, Warped'' and ''The Cat and the Canary'' through ''Epilogue,'' there is a lot of evidence to support that the first twenty six episodes were produced as one season. JLU there was no break until ''The Doomsday Sanction,'' which was only for two months, notably shorter than the typical breaks between seasons. In the first thirteen episodes groundwork for the final battle against Cadmus was laid with episodes like ''Dark Heart'' and ''Ultimatum.'' On DVD, the first twenty six episodes are sold as a single season, and the quantity ordered are has president in both seasons of ''Justice League.''
501
502* When Lex and Flash switched minds, Lex!Flash calls the Secret Society and tells them that Lex is an imposter. What, exactly, did he think that the Society would do to his body?
503** Kill it. It's a chance to A. remove a member of the Justice League and B. get superpowers of his own, superpowers that let him run circles around the JLU on their home turf.
504** Take him prisoner, like they usually do with heroes. Not like they are going to ''kill'' a superhero after capturing him right? [[WhyDontYouJustShootHim When have they ever done that?]] Besides, The Flash would be a pretty useful hostage and might be psychically / magically interrogated.
505
506* The World's Greatest Hackers: In "Panic in the Sky," Batman tells Waller, "Someone took over our fusion cannon by remote control. There are maybe 3 people on Earth smart enough to pull that off. Two of them were already on the Watchtower." The third is obviously Lex Luthor. My questions are:
507** 1. Why is Batman not including himself on that list (he was on Earth at the time, not on the Watchtower, since he wasn't a part of the original members' meeting earlier in the episode)?
508** 2. Presumably The Question makes the list - he seems to have a propensity for getting information he's not supposed to have. So who's the third guy?
509*** It seems unlikely that the Question would make the list. Perhaps he does in the comics, in the DCAU however he's never shown to have particularly above average computer savvy. Yes he can hack, so can the Flash and Lois Lane. Realistically there are far more than three people who should be smart enough as well even amongst the members of the Justice League. The obvious answer is Mr. Terrific who is often considered the third smartest man on Earth.
510** I think that Batman was exaggerating. ''Three hackers'' sounds a lot better than ''a hundred'' when you are trying to convince someone.
511** We also see in the future, that Tim Drake/Joker is able to do nearly the exact same thing.
512** He's not including himself because he owns the Watchtower and doesn't need to hack the cannon that belongs to him.
513
514* StrawmanHasAPoint: Remember Godfrey, the JerkAss journalist in the "Eclipsed" episodes who was denouncing the Justice League as a bunch of self-important glory hounds and a public menace? In the end, he was supposedly discredited when they saved the world from a super-powered lunatic. But looking over the facts, the ''only'' reason the crazy villain was ''almost'' able to destroy the solar system was that he was able to infiltrate the JL and use their supertech to do it. Effectively, they very narrowly averted a disaster that would never even have been a possibility without them being around, and then basked in the adulation of the masses for it. So, [[NoMereWindmill Godfrey was actually perfectly right all along?]]
515** No, because that guy would've been a threat to the world anyway. Godfrey saying that the league only does it for the glory does not mean he's right when someone else attacks them and steals their stuff to do bad with it.
516*** Obviously he's wrong about them being selfish glory hounds. But while the guy would still be dangerous anyway, it's precisely their stolen supertech that turns what would otherwise be a minor villain of the week's incursion into a global threat. You can at least make a case that their security was lax, and thereby they unwittingly endangered the world. Which ties into Godfrey's whole spiel about them being careless and negligent.
517*** (1) Don't forget that Glorious Godfrey is from Apokalips and is one of Darkseid's inner circle. He's not a pundit, he's a supervillain. (2) The villain uses the Javelin to throw the device into the sun, but the actual anti-fusion device was not created by the Justice League, it was created by the army. So the villain was appropriating armytech to try to destroy the sun, and he just stole the Justice League's ride to move it. And without a Justice League, he could just as easily have gotten a spaceship from somewhere else, like [=LexCorp=], Star Labs, Cadmus, Wayne Aerospace etc. (3) Characters aren't genre-savvy by nature. Every superhero ever has had to, in one capacity or another, defeat a brain-jumper. It's not unreasonable to expect that one will show up in a medium that hasn't had one yet - that's the DEFINITION of a trope. That said, it's ridiculous to expect the Justice League to scan the brainwave patterns of every one of their members every time they want to get into the Watchtower. Nobody's that careful, regardless of the fact that by now, the Justice League really SHOULD be.
518
519* In the "Starcrossed" story arc, Hawkgirl knows where the Batcave is. How did she find it? If she's a Batman-level detective, okay, but I don't think she's quite that good.
520** She's a spy who spent the previous several years studying all of her allies for their secrets and weaknesses.
521** Because she is that good. She is a master of espionage and information gathering. Hawkgirl was simply her cover, a cover that she got too deep in, found happiness and love, and chose over her actual life when faced with the moral basis of what she was doing. Up until that point, her heroics were more or less just to maintain her cover, the end of Starcrossed is her actual defection from the Thanagarians. While the Thanagarians and Hro Talak are willing to exterminate a planet to win a war, she realizes the League, and John Stewart would never do such a thing.
522
523* Why would Lex Luthor miss Superman? He tells Lois this at the funeral. Lex HATED Supes back in the 1996 Superman animated series. Shouldn't he be happy that the Man of Steel is "dead"?
524** One obvious possibility is that he's just putting on a show to [[VillainWithGoodPublicity burnish his public image]]. It's also possible that he's perfectly sincere -- he's let himself be defined by his rivalry with Superman to the point that losing his old enemy (and losing any chance to [[TheOnlyOneAllowedToDefeatYou score a final triumph over him]]) leaves him [[AntagonistInMourning feeling genuinely bereft]] and [[NowWhat unsure of what to do with himself]].
525
526* In Secret Origins Part 2, we briefly see when Diana starts putting on her Wonder Woman costume for the first time. After stripping, she picks up the lasso, then the tiara, then the scene changes. Um, what? Why would she "put on" the lasso before the suit, and more importantly, ''where'' did she put it?
527
528* When he starts his attempted escape from Mongul's fortress, what's up with Superman turning a blind eye to the other prisoners? He's Superman, he's supposed to save people! Shouldn't he have tried to help them as well, at the very least breaking their chains?
529
530* How did Batman know that tossing Jack's arm at the helicopter's rotor blades wouldn't sever it?
531** He's Batman.
532
533* Seeing how Hro Talak was originally going to be Katar Hol (aka Hawkman), and they established in the middle of the second season that Hawkgirl's surname is Hol, does that mean that they originally intended for Katar/Hro to be her husband rather than boyfriend?
534
535* If Morgaine le Fey can use her magic to grant people eternal youth and immortality, why doesn't Ra's seek her aid so that he no longer has to depend on the Lazarus Pit?
536** And leave him at her mercy if he ever has to fight her? The Lazarus Pit is totally under his control and very reliable, she may not be.
537*** The Lazarus Pit is anything except reliable. The more he uses it, the longer the insanity bursts last, and the least effective the longevity it grants is. Which is why in nearly every appearance, Ra's is seeking a better source of immortality.
538** Ra's tried that before in BTAS episode with a magical ancient Egyptian queen. Long story short, he barely survived the experience. Apparently he learned the lesson.
539** Eventually, he ''did'' find a better source of immortality under his complete control ([[GrandTheftMe transfer into a new body]], lather-rinse-repeat when the new body got too damaged for the Lazarus Pit to rejuvenate it), which would have worked if he hadn't picked one last fight with Batman.
540** Most likely answer, he has no idea that Morgaine le Fey even exists / he knows she exists but has no idea how to find her.
541
542* If the Amulet of First Magic is "the source of all earthly sorcery", shouldn't all magic in the planet have disappeared after its destruction in Kid's Stuff?
543** Depends on what was meant by "source". If you take out the "source" of a raging fire that doesn't mean the rest of the blaze suddenly goes away- it has taken on a life of it's own.
544
545* If Morgaine can de-age people, why didn't she de-age Old Mordred at the end of Kid's Stuff?
546** Did you miss the part when he revolted against her and went to use the magical amulet to fulfill his own wishes against her will? Son or not, Morgana is not the kind of a person to just let it slide. If memory serves, there was an issue of tie-in comics set after this episode, where she and Mordred appeared, and Mordred was young again, Morgana having de-aged him eventually.
547
548* In The Return, why would the League choose to risk blowing up half the Earth just to stop Amazo? All this one wanted was Luthor; he didn't plan on destroying the Earth.
549** That wasn't the League, that was the Green Lantern Corps. They didn't know that, and they just saw Io, their home base planet "destroyed", since it was teleported to another dimension by Amazo. They wagered that better to kill Amazo here and maybe save humanity and definitely the rest of the universe, than let Amazo escape and possibly escape to destroy worlds elsewhere.
550
551* In For the Man Who Has Everything, when Wonder Woman was getting her ass handed to her by Mongul and Superman was trapped in a trance, why didn't Batman request reinforcements?
552** I assume he did offscreen, but none of them were able to arrive on time. Alternatively, Mongul had found a way to jam all communications so that nobody could come help Superman.
553
554
555* What's up with Luthor's treatment of Mercy in Tabula Rasa? He had never been depicted as being that verbally abusive toward her prior to that episode.
556** He's a sociopath who had previously left her for dead when things went badly. He's also been recently arrested for his crimes, had his revenge against Superman thwarted ''again'', and to top it all off he's got terminal cancer. Now his employee is sitting in his chair, running his company, not really concerned with how things have turned out for him because she is proving she doesn't need him anymore. He is angry, he is bitter and he is throwing a temper tantrum at a women he considers his ungrateful property because he is having the latest in a string of very bad days.
557
558* How did Black Canary know prior to "The Cat and the Canary" that Green Arrow is a multimillionaire? Isn't his identity secret?
559** The only thing hiding his identity is a small mask, he looks the same, talks the same and acts the same in bioth identities.
560* In "Shadaow of the Hawk", why oh why was Shayera so pissed off at Batman and GL for being reasonably concerned over her dating her own stalker?
561** She really doesn't like to be told what she should or shouldn't do in general, but in this case there also was her history with Green Lantern. When someone you used to date and still have some feelings for, and who is currently dating someone else, tells you that you shouldn't date someone, chances are you won't take it well.
562* In "Dead Reckoning", after humanity was turned into apes, why did Grodd had him, Tala and Luthor skedaddle as soon as the trinity showed up, claiming that it was too late for them to do anything? All they had to do was trash the machine with the genetic reconfiguration matrix and everyone turned back to normal.
563* Also from the same episode, how did Superman know that Batman was possessed by Deadman at the end?
564** Because he knows Batman would never use a gun against anyone, not even the supervillains.
565* Yet another one from said episode: What was Luthor going to do if the other villains didn't agree with him taking over?
566** Remember when Doctor Polaris tried to take over a few episodes later? Luthor hadn't revealed it yet but when he upgraded most of their powers he also built in a way to turn those powers against their owners. They can follow him or he can take them out, their choice. Most of them don't really care who is in charge as long as they get what they signed up for.
567
568* How does a New God slapping Wonder Woman's ass gets censored (by having the camera move away from the action before it happens), yet Hawkgirl doing the same to Green Lantern gets a free pass?
569** Two words: [[DoubleStandard Double.]] [[PunctuatedForEmphasis Standard.]]
570** One was unwelcome assault from a stranger the other was welcome encouragement from his romantic interest. Context is everything.
571* Because his Black Mercy fantasy only taking him back to the night of his parents' death contrasts both with the original story showing him in adulthood and with what we see in Superman's fantasy in the episode starting in adulthood, it's accepted in a few places on this wiki that the implication is that Batman's deepest fantasy is just to see Thomas Wayne beating on Joe Chill forever. The Fridge page even claims that "he can't imagine a life after that". Except... he's ''experienced'' [[Recap/BatmanTheAnimatedSeriesE30PerchanceToDream an adulthood where his parents are alive]]. Granted that rehashing that episode, even if only for a few seconds, could have been disappointing and reminded the audience that this is the second time Batman's dealt with a plot like this, but is this seriously a bigger fantasy of Batman's than that, and/or has Batman seriously forgotten that experience?
572[[/folder]]
573
574[[folder:A little more skepticism]]
575* I know Shayera was following orders but shouldn't she be suspicious that the Justice League and Thanagarians were fighting about a shield that was protecting the Earth?
576** Why would she? People fight over misunderstandings all the time. For all she knew the battery used kryptonite and Superman mistakenly thought it was an attack.
577[[/folder]]
578
579[[folder:Captain Boomerang in Task Force X]]
580* I can understand each member of the team and why they are needed. Flagg has to be the leader, Clock King is the one who has to organize the timing of the mission, Platique arms the explosives and Deadshot is needed in case things go wrong and can adapt and overcome in a tight situation. What's Boomerang's purpose other than being the only sane man in the group?
581** Disposable muscle in case a fight breaks out, same as Deadshot.
582[[/folder]]
583
584[[folder:Clayface's "death" in Secret Society]]
585* Okay, this is gonna sound biased cuz I'm a Clayface stan, but just why does everyone seem perfectly fine with him getting ''blown to bits'' by fireworks? You could argue he'd gone BeyondRedemption in the episode with Robin and Annie, but other villains did things that are just as bad, if not ''worse'' than what Hagen did and they never received such a fate. Second of all, don't the League make a point of not becoming as bad as the villains they fight? Why would Batman and Superman, of all people, just shrug off the apparent death of a guy who wasn't even sure he wanted to be evil anymore, than ''agonize'' over whether throwing a homicidal monster like Doomsday in the Phantom Zone is a good thing?
586** Getting blown up won't kill Clayface. He was in pieces when they found him in the first place. The show never acted like he died, they just chose to stop using him (probably because he's so hard to put down in a non-lethal way that wouldn't get repetitive)
587[[/folder]]
588
589[[folder:General Hardcastle in JLU]]
590* Why does he look like 30-50 years older than in Superman The Animated Series? JLU is set only a few years after it.
591** MagicPlasticSurgery.
592** Stress does things to a man’s appearance
593[[/folder]]
594
595[[folder:Why did J'onn think that leaving Kalibak as Vundabar's prisoner would make Apokolips less threatening?]]
596J'onn says that delivering Kalibak to Granny Goodness will let someone seeking to invade Earth take power, but Kalibak is already the prisoner of another potential dictator who could use him to establish control of Apokolips and threaten Earth. J'onn's initial refusal to deliver Kalibak to Granny Goodness has no effect on whether ''one'' of the two contenders for Darkseid's throne will be in a position to threaten Earth. Helping Granny Goodness would at least save the life of one innocent man.
597[[/folder]]
598
599[[folder:"Shadow of the Hawk"]]
600* Is Carter Hall a Thanagarian? Where did he get the wings from? How come Shayera calls him a human?
601** He is human, he gets wings by putting on a harness he found in the ship.
602[[/folder]]
603
604[[folder:Wonder Woman in a department store]]
605So what exactly was Diana doing in that store in "Fury"? She seems totally confused by everything, so what drew her in there in the first place?
606[[/folder]]
607
608[[folder:AMAZO can't use magic?]]
609* When AMAZO comes back and subsequently gets talked out of destroying Lex Luthor by the man himself, he sticks around for a while. He only leaves because he is faced with a revived Solomon Grundy, who his vast powers can't do anything to because Grundy is being powered by magic. Which somewhat makes sense, being a machine and all….until you remember that Wonder Woman's powers are gifted by the Olympian Gods, and are either magic, or something close enough to count as it. And AMAZO copied Wonder Woman's powers during his very first appearance along with the rest of the Justice League. And this was while he was still just a really advanced humanoid nanoswarm, not the evolved being that came back to Earth after traveling the universe. My question is: how the hell does he not know how to deal with magic?! Even if he didn't travel the entire universe, I refuse to believe that at no point did AMAZO come across any magic on other planets and thus learn to use it or deal with it. Even if he did, he still has Wonder Woman's powers, which, again, ARE magic! How the hell does he not know at least how to weaken magic?!
610** It's a question of what exactly Amazo is and what powers his abilities. He also copied Hawlgirl's Nth Metal mace that should be able to neutralize Grundy's magic as well. I find it likely that most of what Amazo copies are facsimilies rather than the real thing, Wonder Woman's powers included. Hence why he can create a Green Lantern Ring or Superman's powers without the mechanisms either of the originals would require to actually function, a Power Battery and willpower for the former and sunlight for the latter. Wonder Woman's powers are flight, super strength, super durability and an unbreakable lasso that doesn't even have all it's powers at this point. There's very little actually magical about her powers that the other league members don't have perfectly suitable versions of.
611[[/folder]]
612
613[[folder:Summoning Hawkgirl]]
614* It is established over time that Hawkgirl, and indeed all Thanagarians are immune to Martian telepathy, at least unless the Martian tries harder, which usually breaks the mind of the Thanagarian. So how did J'onn telepathically summon Hawkgirl in Secret Origins with the other heroes?
615** Immune to telepathy means with mental blocks (in the comics anyway) Hawkgirl may have chosen to lower or remove them altogether so to not make the other Earth heroes suspicious.
616[[/folder]]
617
618[[folder:Cadmus founding]]
619* Doomsday is revealed to be a product of Cadmus, meant to neutralize Superman. An earlier episode had Amanda Waller intimate that the genesis for Cadmus was the Justice League episode featuring the invasion of the Justice Lords (the League had had to tell the government about the Justice Lords in order to secure a pardon for Lex Luthor). However, the first opponent the Justice Lords had to deal with when they came to
620** Given that Hamilton turned on Superman because of the results of Superman TAS' ending, it's likely Cadmus started then as well, it just took evidence that the League could go bad willingly to prompt the government to up their budget and allow them to work more actively to counter the League, with Doomsday being one of the things that they'd already done.
621[[/folder]]

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