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1Please check [[https://web.archive.org/web/20110623030156/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq.cfm?ref=aboutthebooks JK's FAQs]] before asking a question that may have already been answered.
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3Headscratchers that are specifically about the movie are listed [[Headscratchers/HarryPotterAndTheHalfBloodPrinceFilm here]].
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5[[foldercontrol]]
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7[[folder:Harry got away with attempted manslaughter]]
8* Harry used a curse on a fellow student that could have killed him if it wasn't for the intervention of Professor Snape. Sure, Harry didn't know what sort of spell he had cast, but still: if Draco died as a result Harry would have been guilty of manslaughter. And what punishment did he receive? Detention! I think he really got away with that one, because for such a felony he should have been suspended from school at least and also faced some repercussions from the Ministry. Of course, in that case [[PlotArmor the story would be over.]]
9** Draco was trying to cast an Unforgivable curse on Harry at the time Harry hexed him. Under the law, Harry's actions would be self-defense.
10** A) How is he supposed to prove Draco was trying that? B) Even if he somehow does, how does it justify using a lethal spell when he could've just as easily used a non-lethal one?
11** Remember that this is a discussion of whether or not Harry is guilty of manslaughter/attempted manslaughter -- i.e., whether or not Harry's actions, under the law, qualify as a crime. While this requires us to speculate about what exactly the law ''is'', since we already know British magical law has at least some kind of provision for self-defense then using the self-defense standard of the Common Law (as well as most jurisdictions in the Western world) is the most reasonable speculation we can make. And under those provisions Harry's actions are entirely justified -- he is in immediate danger from an attack intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm, therefore he may legally use any amount of force up to and including potentially lethal attacks to subdue his attacker. He is under no legal requirement to deliberately restrain himself to nonlethal attacks even if they are available, anymore than a man defending himself with a gun is required to try shooting for his attacker's legs as opposed to his head or chest. Regardless of one's own individual opinion re: the ''ethics'' of self-defense, which may vary, the ''law'' is of only one opinion on the matter, and it is the law we are analyzing here.
12** Self-defense is a little bit trickier in England and Wales. Self-defense in English law is using reasonable force against an unjust threat. We can all agree that Draco was committing a wizard felony against Harry; two of them, in fact. The unlawful assault, and the attempted use of an Unforgiveable Curse. The entire legal case against Harry would hang on whether or not a jury or the Wizengamot accepted Harry's affirmative defense that Sectumsempra was a reasonable amount of force against Draco. However, it is relevant that Harry was under pressure from imminent attack. His legal argument would have been that he did not have had time to make entirely rational decisions, so the test must balance the objective standard of a reasonable person by attributing some of the subjective knowledge of Harry. There have been cases in English law of householders who have used lethal force against gun-wielding intruders and been imprisoned for unreasonable force, so it's not a slam-dunk. Fortunately for Harry, Lucius Malfoy had lost all political juice thanks to events in Order of the Phoenix, and Dumbledore was head of the Wizengamot, so it would have been unlikely that a legal action against Harry would have succeeded.
13*** English law wouldn't apply, on account of Hogwarts being in Scotland.
14*** Neither English nor Scottish law would apply, since the Wizarding World only cares about magical law. We're using English law to conjecture about magical law, because the Ministry of Magic is based in London and their law seems (according to others who know more about legal matters) closer to the law of England than that of any other country.
15** As to how Harry can prove his actions were justified when it is essentially his word vs. Draco's, that is orthogonal to the question 'were Harry's actions justified'. It's like Harry's casting the Patronus Charm to keep himself and Dudley from being eaten by Dementors -- the part where Harry had great difficulty demonstrating his innocence in court, due to lack of evidence, did not change the part where Harry actually ''was'' innocent.
16** Snape was the one who covered it up; since if Harry got into more serious crap than detention for using a spell that was incredibly dangerous [granted, Harry didn't know what it did], then Snape would be exposed as the inventor of Sectumsempra. Snape let Harry get away to protect his own hide.
17** "Attempted" manslaughter is an oxymoron. Manslaughter is defined as killing "''without'' malice aforethought," i.e. without intending to kill. Harry didn't know that sectumsempra was potentially lethal at the time he used it on Malfoy. That could potentially knock the charge down from manslaughter to criminal negligence (using an untested spell without having any idea what its effects might have been), depending on how wizard laws compare to Muggle ones and how good Harry's lawyer was. That said, Harry got off pretty light not facing any formal criminal ''or'' civil charges whatsoever, considering that the Malfoys are known to be litigious types (e.g. suing to have Hagrid sacked and Buckbeak destroyed on frivolous grounds). Probably the Malfoys didn't want to face counter-charges or have the Ministry looking too deeply into their dealings right at that particular moment.
18** As to whether Harry could ''prove'' he cast the spell in self-defense in a court of wizarding law, that would likely depend on whether A) Priori Incantatum can reveal whether a spell was ''begun'' but not completed, and B) whether Draco and his mom would be stupid enough to have Draco go on the stand and testify that he ''hasn't'' been trying to murder somebody recently, when they both know he ''actually has been doing just that'' all year ... just not Harry specifically. For all they know, the [=MoM=] may have finally wised up enough to use Veratiserum on defendants and witnesses, after so many infiltrations and deceits.
19** As for Harry defending himself, the answer is easy, have him drink Veritaserum and then tell what happened, that's plain self defense according to the laws of Magic World.
20*** Veritaserum is not reliable. There are too many ways to counteract or otherwise neutralise the potion's effects, and all it does is make the drinker tell the truth ''as they percieve it'' if it is used correctly. ''That's'' why the Ministry does not use it during trials, and most certainly why Harry can't use it to plea self-defence.
21*** So what if people can resist veritaserum? People can also lie under oath. And the presence of an antidote is trivial to test for before administering the potion.
22** There is a key difference in the wizarding world. Malfoy was healed instantly by Snape, and Madam Pomfrey ensured that he would even avoid some scarring. A gunshot wound or a knife stab however can affect the victim for life even if they're not killed. It's hard to be in a situation where you use a knife or gun and not know what it does. The closest real-world equivalent would be Harry picking up a gun he didn't realise was loaded. He also had time to talk to Professor [=McGonagall=] about the situation, and she would be much more impartial than Snape and therefore more likely to believe Harry's story (and know him well enough to know he's not the sort who usually goes around slicing people up for shits and giggles). His punishment seems reasonable enough for the crime - he was careless and used a dangerous spell that could have killed someone without knowing the consequences, but was acting in self defence and trying to avoid an Unforgivable Curse.
23*** Exactly. They can heal or counter-curse most things instantly so why should they care if someone gets hurt for 10 minutes? The wizarding world seems to have a completely different concept of assault than we have. Levicorpus, or the Jelly-Legs-curse, or even human transfiguration all technically cause bodily harm in some way, and spells like Stupify or Petrificus Totalus are used to attack people, but no one ever bats an eye.
24** It makes sense that Snape might want to cover this up because he was the inventor of the curse (as stated above), but Harry probably wouldn't have revealed this information. He doesn't trust people enough to have said where the curse came from in the first place, and he doesn't even know that Snape was the mysterious "half-blood prince" -- it took quite a while for anyone to put that together. For people to find out that Snape invented the curse would take examination of Harry's potions book by someone who can recognize Snape's teenage handwriting, and Harry probably wouldn't even show anyone the potions book.
25* There's no such thing as "attempted manslaughter." Manslaughter is the unintentional killing of another human. You're intending to commit some other crime (like assault) but instead cause their death. If they don't die, it's just assault (in this case) or whatever the underlying crime is.
26[[/folder]]
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28[[folder:Charms or Transfiguration?]]
29* In Chapter 24: Sectumsempra, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are in Charms class discussing what he and Dumbledore had talked about regarding Slughorn's memory and the Horcruxes. Flitwick comes over and scolds them for talking and tells them to get to work because "Hermione was the only one who had managed to turn vinegar into wine." It explicitly states they're in Charms class, and it's Flitwick who is teaching, so why exactly are they doing Transfiguration?
30** Wine turns into vinegar when it goes sour. Perhaps they were studying some kind of rejuvenating or process-reversing charm.
31** Fun fact: It's the ethanoic acid content (commonly called acetic acid). The higher the ethanoic acid content of wine, the closer it becomes to vinegar. Too much is considered a wine fault.
32** So, it was an oenophile charm. "Oenophilicus Grigio!"
33[[/folder]]
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35[[folder:Love potions? More like "horrible sexual violation" potions!]]
36* Love Potions: Pretty much the ultimate {{date rape}} drug. Exactly ''why'' are they treated like harmless fun for most of the series, even after we hear the story of Voldemort's mom? There are absolutely no repercussions for any of the people we see try to use them -- like Romilda Vane, who tried to drug Harry but got Ron instead -- except maybe disappointment, when they should be getting a week in Azkaban or something to [[ScareEmStraight scare 'em straight]].
37** Well, this is another culture we're dealing with. Maybe their stance on [[SexualHarassmentAndRapeTropes rape]] is totally different from ours; maybe they see rape as nothing more than [[BlackComedyRape harmless fun]] or even an act of love.
38** It's rather notable that "Obliviate" is ''not'' an unforgivable curse.
39** It's also worth noting that the Wizarding world seems to have a "no harm, no foul rule" in place. The things that wizards do to one another in the name of good fun would be considered monstrous in the real world, but since they have access to magic, they're mild nuisances at worst. It makes sense that this attitude would extend further into their culture. Note that the only person to ''successfully'' use a Love Potion as a date rape drug, Merope Gaunt, wasn't portrayed in a positive light. She was desperate and lonely and pitiful, but she wasn't excused for her crime. Moreover, Ron basically overdosed on an expired Love Potion; presumably, it doesn't normally consume the user entirely, and immediately after the Love Potion problem was rectified, Ron had more immediate issues to worry about.
40** The 'no harm no foul' rule is a good point. Though, part of the message seems to be that the intention DOES matter, whether or not it is successful, at least in some cases: no one can argue that some of the things James and Sirius got up to weren't deliberately intended to be cruel, and as such, their youthful exploits are - aside from Sirius and Remus's personal romanticized memories of them - presented as stupid, dangerous, and in some cases downright cruel. Rowling seems to have intentionally drove this point home when it comes to Snape, in both 'Snape's Worst Memory' and the knowledge of the Werewolf/Shrieking Shack prank against Snape, in which case they are represented as being unquestionably the instigators/bullies/antagonists. Of course, Snape is a dickwad to the extreme as an adult, so there really isn't much extra sympathy for him before those particulars, but even '''''HARRY''''' is disgusted by these particular events. It seems a flaw in the wizard mentality that is presented AS a flaw, because it creates further problems for the people instigating these situations. It never once feels as if Rowling is making excuses for these things, even though the [[DracoInLeatherPants fans sometimes do]].
41** Maybe Rowling thinks that DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale. After all, only females ever show any interest in drugging people with love potions.
42** Actually, perhaps this whole thing with Love Potions is ''meant'' to appear as a [[DoubleStandard Double Standard]], as a way of critiquing Muggle society's treatment of [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale similar situations]]. It wouldn't be the first time Rowling did something like this, and if this is the case (and with the way in which she describes Merope Riddle, it certainly would seem so), it falls under [[FridgeBrilliance Fridge Brilliance]].
43** It probably is meant to be a critique on the [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale double standard]]. Dumbledore explicitly says that he believes that Voldemort's disposition (read: sociopathy) could be from being born of a loveless union. I don't even want to get into [[UnfortunateImplications what that might or might not imply]] about [[ChildByRape being a child of rape]] and sociopathy, but looking at the broader point, that statement - "loveless union" - makes it pretty clear that what Merope did wasn't OK. Riddle's inability to call it what it was just draws even more attention to the stigma - TruthInTelevision, in that a lot of men aren't supported properly when they become victims of sexual assault. So he said he was "hoodwinked" and "taken in", and couldn't say straight out that he was raped via magic. Still, it might have been nice if the book had even more explicitly spelled out the wrongness of it. The greater focus seemed to be on Riddle's AssholeVictim status instead of on Merope's raping of him.
44** There's already some magical Double Standards in play. The one that jumps to mind is that girls can walk into the boys' dormitories, but if a boy tries the reverse, Hogwarts magically prevents him from entering.
45** I can't remember where exactly, but I do remember reading that the Hogwarts founders thought girls to be more trustworthy. I guess that was the way it was a thousand years ago.
46** Except a thousand years ago, the dorms would've had chamber pots rather than bathrooms.
47** I always took it (from the mentions in the early books of Molly Weasley, accounting an anecdote of brewing up a love potion - how would you react if your dad started laughingly talking about that one time he roofied a girl?) that Amortentia is ''the strongest'' love potion, but not the only one. You only jump right to the strongest if you're being really reckless or you ''really'' want someone in total uncontrollable lust with you.
48** This seems to make the most sense, that there are a wide variety of love potions with varying strengths and effects. Presumably this can range from the Weasley's Wizard Wheezes brand, which would, presumably, be relatively short-lasting, with symptoms like uncontrollable blushing, grinning like an idiot, stammering, and heart-all-a-flutter ''(consult a Healer before administering to someone with a heart condition; contact St. Mungo's for details on possible side effects)''. On the other end of the scale are the ''(probably illegal)'' potions used by Merope Gaunt to completely subsume the drinker's own preferences and wishes, up to and including sexual activities and long-term relationships; i.e., an [[MoralEventHorizon Imperius Curse]] powered by [false] [[ThePowerOfLove love]].
49** Aside from intention and the random other discussions of Love Potions... it seems weird to me that they are TAUGHT how to make them in their Potions class with Slughorn. While I somehow doubt that Snape would ever teach them this particular potion (since he looks nearly homicidal when Lockhart suggests on Valentine's that people ask him about it), it is clearly a potentially dangerous drug. The fact that we only see women use it, in the narrative, doesn't mean men NEVER have. Both boys and girls brew it in Potions with Slughorn, and this is both bizarre and pretty repulsive that this happens. You don't learn how to make Roofies Of Your Very Own in Chemistry class, as the potential for abuse with this kind of potion is pretty much its entire purpose - there IS no morally sound reason to brew it. Yergh.
50** I actually did learn how to make meth in my college chemistry class, although we didn't actually do it for a lab and I doubt it's the method that most meth labs use (as the reactants involved include strong acids that aren't exactly easy to get your hands on). Building on the "there are many different types of love potions" idea, I always figured that only Amortentia and the other really strong kinds of love potions are the magical equivalent of roofies; weaker love charms and love potions are the magical equivalent of "buying 4-5 drinks for a girl to loosen her up", which, rightly or wrongly, most people do consider to be acceptable behaviour and will laughingly talk about.
51** Wait a second, love potions are not necessarily "rape" drugs, because even though they cause "infatuation", it's not ''impossible'' that they ''don't'' lead to sex -- oh wait, Merope and Tom, right.
52** Rowling was going back to her old writing style/tone from the first couple books where she was using juvenile hijinx with magic and potions for comedic effect (RuleOfFunny). The rape aspect is only FridgeHorror: it most likely didn't occur to her that horny lovestruck students would figure the PowerPerversionPotential inherent in love potions. But then as mentioned above, she put Merope's use of the potion in the book. So she's got some kind of dissonance going on: she acknowledges their potential for abuse, but thinks teenagers wouldn't abuse them enough to warrant the professors doing the sensible thing and not teaching them how to brew it.
53** Just going by what was shown in Book 6, Professor Slughorn only ''showed'' the class what the love potion looks like, teaching them how to recognize its characteristics, scent, appearance, effects, etc. It doesn't specifically say that they were ever taught how to brew it themselves. Likely for the same reason they didn't learn how to make Felix Felicis: either it was way beyond their grade level, the ingredients are too expensive for a school course, or it takes so long to mature that it's infeasible for a classroom project.
54** He also did mention that it was the most dangerous potion in a line that included some deadly ones. Obviously a love potion of that strength isn't legal.
55** Possible FridgeBrilliance here; showing the students the common characteristics and effects of a love potion of this nature means they're, in theory, better equipped to identify if they or someone else is under the influence of one and take appropriate necessary action -- kind of like how it's getting more common to publicise the possible characteristics and effects of date-rape drugs in order to help people identify whether their friends have been doped with one.
56** Noted, with some of the arguments made here, in [[http://www.cracked.com/article_19397_the-5-most-depraved-sex-scenes-implied-by-harry-potter.html this]] Cracked article, at #5.
57** Well, I don't want to say that I approve of dosing people with stuff like that, but as far as I see it it's that any product that can induce any sort of attraction is considered to be a "love potion". Amortentia? Yeah, hard stuff, it pretty much brain-washes people and is probably worse than roofies. The potions sold by the Weasley twins? Yeah, considering that the effect varies depending on the attractiveness of people, it's probably something like an aphrodisiac combined with something that makes the one more receptive to pheromones of the person who used it; in other words, something that ''can'' be resisted by those with strong enough will. Certainly questionable and certainly something that can be used to end up raping someone, but considering how the society of that time divided men into those who want sex regardless and those who can control themselves, the whole thing is no more illegal for them than wine, scented candles, and oils used to "enhance mood" are for us. That sort of thing would be the same to "love potions" as we know them, that a potion that makes one say what they want to say but stop themself from saying would be to a truth potion; in other words, not the most "correct" choice, but not exactly seen as bad.\
58Also, it's a different society. The fact that men can also be raped is something that wasn't really seen before the 20th century, and the wizarding world is somewhere at 17th or 18th century.
59** I think the wizard equivalent for rape will be using the Imperious Curse (as in forcing someone to have sex with you againts his/her will) which is the only way I can think of a wizard can rape another wizard (that can defend him/herself with magic from coercion or violence). Love potions are more in the muggle equivalent of scam or feeding false information to receive a favor, as the potion is tricking the person’s mind into thinking he/she is in-love of the recipient. On the other hand, as said by other tropers above, yes, love potions not necessary leave to sex, a boy can use the love potion on a girl, that doesn’t mean the girl is gonna have sex with him no matter how in love she is. Now about Merope, call me crazy but, unless she was terribly ugly (and I think the book says she wasn’t) Tom as any normal man would probably be willing to have sex with a pretty girl, the unethical part of the Amorentia was to force him to fall in love with her, he might have sex with her willingly. But yes, as said before, the books were, at their core and originally intended, CHILDREN’s book, we as adults are the ones thinking in the UnfortunateImplications, the intended audience for the books are probably more innocent.
60** The book does explicitly say that Merope Gaunt is not attractive; she has "eyes that point in different directions" (thereby implying that she suffers from the effects of inbreeding that the Gaunt family has engaged in for decades, if not centuries), and the head of the orphanage confirms that she was not good-looking.
61*** Not to mention that the UnfortunateImplications in this approach are that pretty girls in RealLife by definition cannot commit rape...
62** It seems entirely deliberate that, while love potions are mentioned in previous books, this is the only one in which we actually witness them being used. Romilda Vane gets some from Weasley's Wizard Wheezes, and Merope brews some to use on Tom Riddle Sr. In both cases, things go rather horribly awry. Tom up and flees from Merope as soon as she stops dosing him, refusing to return to her or look in on his son, and Merope dies in childbirth in part (it's speculated by Dumbldore) because the emotional strain of having and then losing the guy she was crazy about weakened or destroyed her ability to do magic, even to save her own life. Harry is forwarned by Hermoine that Romilda (and possibly some other girls) might try and slip him a love potion, so Harry wisely doesn't eat the chocolates Romilda gives him almost immediately thereafter. But he doesn't dispose of them, Ron finds and eats them, and gets dangerously obsessive, punching Harry in the head for ''thinking Ron was joking''. The rest of the scene has Harry and Slughorn handling Ron very, very carefully, since they both know that, if he thinks they're trying to keep him from Romilda before the love potion is cured, Ron could get violently unpredictable. Slughorn even flat-out states that, compared to the other potions he's showing the class, Amortentia is probably the most dangerous, and Harry, after witnessing the effects on two separate occasions, compares it unfavorably to the Dark Arts. It seems entirely intentional for the readers to come away with the sense that love potions, especially ones as potent as Amortentia, are dreadful things to do to another human being, but for whatever reason the Wizarding World hasn't cottoned on to the fact that these really should be controlled or restricted substances of some kind. That having been said, it's not inconceivable that there are legitimate uses for love potions, such as, say, if you were going to be spending a special evening with someone you already were falling in love with, and both agreed to take a little extra something to make the night particularly memorable.
63* We should keep in mind that the only love potions we see used are the incredibly illegal one used to rape Tom Riddle and one that was expired and not working properly. We've never seen the effects of the legal stuff, judging by the description read off one of the labels they don't seem to be that big a deal. Some day dreams, some blushing, some mild infatuation for a brief time and that's about it, they even mention that the effects vary noticbly if the recipient doesn't find the user attractive. It's likely impossible to rape someone using a legal love potion. They seem more like tools to get someone to notice you. Can't work up the nerve to talk to the one you like, slip them a love potion and see if they come talk to you instead.
64** Good argument... but you still shouldn't be "slipping" anyone a drug, even a harmless one, ever. Period.
65** A couple of things: 1) we don't know if there's a recipe on how to brew Amortentia in the potions book; Slughorn just has a vat of it in the class for educational purposes. 2) One of the key aspects of Amortentia is that it gives off scents that are attractive to whoever is near it. So Slughorn is educating his class of sixteen-year-olds that if they're offered a drink and they can suddenly smell all these nice things that wouldn't realistically be there, someone is trying to drug them with the most powerful love potion in the world (like young women are often taught that some date rape drugs have a sour or bitter taste, so if their drink suddenly tastes that way, it's a good indicator that someone has tampered with it). Slughorn also tells the snickering teenagers to not underestimate how dangerous it can be; not just the rape implications. What if someone was fed Amortentia and the other person got them to do horrible things like steal or kill for their beloved?
66* Regarding rape as such: I'm totally aware that I might draw the ire of a lot of people as such, but maybe in wizarding culture rape itself isn't as serious a crime. In Muggle culture, it is horrendous not because of some biological law - sex as such is perfectly natural - but because of a whole set of cultural and psychological attitudes and conditions that might be different with wizards as opposed to Muggles (e.g. possibility of the subsequent Obliviation, different gender relations, possibility to actually ''feel'' (if only artificial) love during the rape, etc). Not to jump to any conclusions (let alone justifications) here apart from the point that one shouldn't ''automatically'' assume Muggle attitudes as the only possible ones here without giving it as much as a second thought.
67[[/folder]]
68
69[[folder:That Malfoy kid's being allowed to get away with murder...]]
70* Does it bother anyone else that Dumbledore allows Malfoy enough of a leash to harm multiple students? Whether or not Dumbledore wants to keep Malfoy out of prison, it's sheer luck that Ron and Katie went into the hospital wing and not the morgue. The only step Dumbledore takes is to have Snape watch over him, and Snape already has a lot on his plate.
71** 'its possible Dumbledore didn't know' -- Nope. Snape, who is completely loyal to Dumbledore, knew exactly what Malfoy was up to; that's the entire point of the Spinner's End chapter. Snape later confirms in the Pensieve that he told Dumbledore. As for the dumb luck, Malfoy has openly espoused pure blood supremacy, threatened to kill Harry, supported Umbridge in opposing Dumbledore, has significant connections to the Death Eaters (father, mother, aunt), and is overheard threatening a black market dealer with the name of a notorious werewolf, and boasting to his friends about Voldemort's coming new world order. These are solid reasons to suspect Malfoy. Unfortunately, Harry is a ''failure'' in the espionage/detective skill set; his idea of eavesdropping is to hide in the luggage rack. It's only after he gets Dobby and Kreacher to help him that's he's able to accomplish anything.
72** Dumbledore (and Harry) knew that Malfoy was doing ''something'', and Harry doesn't have a solid enough understanding of either the Wizarding World or Dark Magic to suggest a way that Malfoy could have been responsible for the necklace; by the point of the poisoning, Harry's already effectively been discredited. Dumbledore, on the other hand, probably figured it had been Malfoy all along, but his attempts were so bad that he could be turned to the side of good, as Snape had been. Dumbledore's flaw was underestimating Malfoy's ingenuity and willingness to do whatever it took.
73** That's another thing the bugs me. Malfoy is an attempted murderer, but he's so incompetent that we're going to let him hurt people and try to get him on our side? This after Malfoy has been at Hogwarts for 6 years, and Dumbledore (and Snape) pretty much turn a blind eye to the kid's Voldemort sympathies. Yeah, Malfoys don't know better, that's why you have teachers explain things like "Hanging out with racist terrorists is a Bad Idea."
74** Did it bother anyone else that ''[=McGonagall=]'' didn't consider the possibility of Malfoy using an Imperius curse? Harry's an Idiot, but she (supposedly) isn't. Instead she just said "he was with me, so he has an alibi."
75** Seemed to me that [=McGonagall=] simply didn't consider that a teenage boy was capable of the Imperius Curse. It's noted that the Unforgivable Curses need a lot of power and motivation behind them. Plus, look at the timing -- all evidence was that Katie Bell (if that's the incident being referred to) was Imperius Cursed while in Hogsmeade. Malfoy ''wasn't'' in Hogsmeade, so logically he couldn't have cursed Katie personally. Imperius-by-Proxy via Rosmerta was never considered by anybody. Even Dumbledore didn't realize Malfoy's pawn until the end.
76** Dumbledore overlooking (sort of) Malfoy's attempted murders seemed perfectly in character. Both attempts failed, and more importantly, Malfoy's targets were completely inadvertent. Dumbledore even criticizes him for taking such high-risk, low-probability measures, but he knew they were mistakes, born of desperation instead of malice. He was already forgiving Malfoy for being a teenage boy working out of stark terror for a seriously evil psychopath, so forgiving him for unfortunate near-accidents is plausible.
77** The question isn't if Dumbledore could forgive Malfoy -- the book makes it quite clear that Malfoy had a fair FreudianExcuse and was under some extreme circumstances. The question is, why did Dumbledore let this go on for so long? As mentioned, Malfoy's attempts did have a very low chance of success, but they were going to hurt plenty of people just to get to Dumbledore, and it was only sheer dumb luck that Katie and Ron didn't die. Letting Malfoy continue his ill-conceived assassination attempts while living in a school filled with innocent children is simply insane. Not to mention that Malfoy was obviously mentally unstable at the time (perfectly willing to use an Unforgivable Curse on someone who'd just seen him crying in a public restroom), and could snap and do even more damage. The very instant his botched attack hospitalized Katie, Dumbledore should've pulled him aside and talked him down, instead of waiting until Malfoy was nearly successful and had him at wand-point (great timing there, Albus). His willingness to let Malfoy possibly kill innocent students is just one more piece of evidence shown throughout the books -- Dumbledore doesn't care about the safety or well-being of Hogwarts students.
78** Huh. That last sentence pretty much means any counterargument is going to fall on deaf ears, but... eh, why not. Dumbledore ''was'' doing something about Malfoy, having Snape keep him under control (or try to). Engineering Malfoy's HeelFaceTurn (ironically waiting until ''Malfoy'' was at his weakest moment) was one of Albus "Everyone Deserves a Second Chance" Dumbledore's big projects (along with searching for the Horcruxes, teaching Harry to do so, and getting himself killed). He correctly assumed the assassination attempts were flukes, and he didn't really seem to know about Malfoy's ''actual'' "danger to himself and others" plan to smuggle in Death Eaters. Malfoy really wasn't mentally unstable, either, except that one moment (under stress, mortal enemy caught him in weak moment, already willing to use Unforgivable Curses anyway...). Until the plan ran away from him, Dumbledore letting Malfoy "win" was killing three birds with one stone: Malfoy would be most likely to concede when he wasn't backed into a corner, Malfoy's death could be faked, and Dumbledore's death could be accomplished, freeing Snape.
79** The thing about Malfoy's plans, though, was that they were only incompetent as attempts to kill ''Dumbledore.'' As attempts to kill ''someone'', they came very close to working. The necklace kills whoever touches it; odds are near 100% that someone is going to pick it up and get killed. Same thing with the poisoned mead: someone is going to drink it, even if that someone is unlikely to be Dumbledore. Malfoy is doing the equivalent of firing a gun into a crowd, and Dumbledore really needed to put a stop to it.
80** The simplest explanation is that he overestimated Malfoy. Dumbledore is smart enough not to accept anonymous gifts. Those who actually got harmed by them did so when they weren't supposed to by Malfoy's plan.
81** Also, worth noting is that Dumbledore's goal was never to keep Malfoy out of prison so much as it was to keep Malfoy ''alive.'' ''Any'' overt action on Dumbledore's part would have gotten Draco killed if Voldemort found out about it. That's why he had to work through Snape. Short of relying on Snape to try and keep Malfoy in check, there was nothing Dumbledore could do except watch, work Damage Control, and thank heavens nobody got killed (since he remarks Draco was lucky neither of his accidental victims died).
82** He was also protecting ''Narcissa'', as she probably would've gotten herself killed trying to protect Draco, had Voldemort judged her son a liability and sicced the other Death Eaters on him. Narcissa is probably the ''least'' evil person among Voldemort's supporters (barring the deceased Regulus), so Dumbledore wouldn't want her to suffer for her son's incompetence.
83** Don't forget that he needed ''Snape'' to remain alive for part of his GambitRoulette, and taking action against Malfoy based on the information Snape had given him could have lead to Snape being killed by the Unbreakable Vow.
84** Seems in character for Dumbledore. Remember it was suggested in the first book that he knew what Quirrell was up to and let the trio take care of him on purpose.
85** Also, don't forget that in book 7 Voldemort is trying to get the Elder Wand. If Dumbledore had confronted Draco before Draco disarmed him, then Voldemort would have gotten the wand and Harry might be dead.
86** Moreover, so long as Draco is acting as a Death Eater agent at Hogwarts, whose plans have yet to run their course, it decreases the risk that Voldemort will send some ''other'' agent to infiltrate the school. The bad guys have done this repeatedly in the past, showing enough ingenuity that Dumbledore can't trust his defences to foil the next attempt. By leaving Draco in place -- an incompetent whose clumsy assassination-attempts only endanger people ''by accident'' -- Dumbledore is stalling for time, delaying Voldemort's next full-blown attack on the school and/or Harry because the Dark Lord is waiting for Draco to succeed or to blow it.
87** Ok, I'd like to reiterate an aforementioned perfectly good point: '''Malfoy is doing the equivalent of firing a gun into a crowd'''. Period. His clumsy assassination-attempts do not endanger people by accident - they are '''bound''' to endanger people and the accidents (or miracles) were that nobody actually died. If Katie had touched that necklace with her full palm, she would've died. If Slughorn drank that mead alone (and why not?), he would've died. And Snape did nothing to prevent both cases, so this excuse is lame. Seriously, it looks more and more as if Dumbledore was content with the situation where everybody in the school was in real danger except for him. What the heck?
88** Dumbledore calls Snape out on that in the Pensieve episode in book 7, just before he reveals the secret of the Harry-Horcrux. "I thought you had agreed to keep an eye on our young Slytherin friend." Presumably, this was after Snape had failed to prevent the first two attempts, and afterward, Snape is able to convince Draco not to concoct any more hare-brained schemes and focus on the one that was working - even though Draco still doesn't tell him exactly what that is.
89** Dumbledore knew the entire time what was going on. When Harry was looking through Snape's memories, it was revealed that Dumbledore wanted to keep Malfoy as ignorant as possible of the protection (otherwise Voldemort might use Legilimency to find out and kill Malfoy anyway). As a result, Dumbledore pretended to have no idea that Malfoy was really behind everything and thus had to basically gaslight Harry's suspicions. Harry even suspects at one point that Dumbledore was working on the issue but just wasn't confiding everything to him for some reason.
90** For one thing, exposing Malfoy would force Snape's hand -- once Draco was apprehended and rendered completely incapable of finishing his task, Snape would ''have'' to kill Dumbledore for any of their plans to work out, which would be even worse for everyone since Snape would then be stranded inside Hogwarts with no back up. Add to that the fact that Dumbledore has been spending all year trying to get Harry up to date, and it doesn't take much to realize that despite all the repercussions of having Malfoy continue plotting, outing him would be a ''much'' worse situation all around. It's horrible, but this is war we're talking about.
91** Dumbledore is simply ready to potentially sacrifice innocent bystanders to get his master plan with Snape to work. That's all. Most important was to have the plan with Snape assassinating him work. Second was to keep Draco, potential murderer safe. And his family who were all potential or real murderers depending if Lucius had killed anyone. The least of importance was if someone innocent (like students) dies in the process. Dumbledore is all about greater good. If some kids get hurt or die then... well, crap happens. Albus would shed a tear and life goes on.
92** And since the book is from Harry's POV, we don't know how closely Dumbledore was watching Malfoy. The security measures on the castle prevented any dark stuff from being smuggled in - Katie would have been caught out as soon as she got to the gate with Fudge's secrecy sensor. And Katie was under the Imperius Curse to deliver the package to Dumbledore - so she couldn't open it of her own free will and touch the necklace. Leanne suspecting something and Katie accidentally touching a tiny bit of the necklace after a fight is not a variable you can anticipate (it's said she had a small hole in her glove, and her skin lightly touched a small bit of it. That's a million to one chance.). They don't know that Malfoy has Rosmerta under the Imperius Curse, and that's what allows the poison to get into the castle (quoth Dumbledore "[Filch] wouldn't think to check a package of Rosmerta's"). But the fact that someone is able to give Katie a cursed necklace and sneak poisoned mead into the castle suggests outside help, and if Malfoy is busted, this outsider could still prove a problem. Dumbledore is also quick to guess that Malfoy's attempts are on ''his'' life and he's not outwardly planning to murder innocent students. If Malfoy had been attacking students more directly, Dumbledore might have also reacted differently.
93
94** Dumbledore knew of Draco's mission to kill him all along, and wanted to save his soul (and his life no doubt) which is totally in character for Dumbledore. And Draco, for all his faults, is a student in his care, so definitely deserving of saving... but not at the expense of other students. Yet Dumbledore simply wants to carry out his plan to have Snape kill him and fool Voldemort into thinking that Snape is master of the Elder Wand (which didn't work and nearly torpedoed the entire plan), and Ron and Katie were expendable in this. What's more, Dumbledore knew exactly what was happening and was incredibly blase about it. Even if you can forgive him for Katie Bell, that should have been a wake-up call but he still does nothing and leaves Draco to nearly kill Ron, plus put Madame Rosemerta under the Imperius Curse and try to use the Cruciatus Curse on Harry. (Katie lived by pure chance. She would've died if she'd touched any more of that necklace. Ron only lived because Harry was there to shove a bezoar down his throat. And if Ron hadn't drunk the mead, then Slughorn would have consumed it while alone and died. And when the Death Eaters got in through the Vanishing Cabinet, one of the DA members could have been killed, especially if they hadn't taken Felix Felicis.)\
95\
96If Dumbledore was a man who used common sense, he would not let any of Draco's actions slide. He would've given an immense verbal reprimand to Snape for not controlling Draco, expelled Draco, had him arrested and thrown in Azkaban, or maybe have approached Draco at the start of the year with an offer of protection provided by members of the Order, because his students' safety is more important than his planned assisted suicide.\
97But this is consistent with how Dumbledore behaved in the earlier books. Unless hideously hemmed-in by circumstances, he had no problems risking the students' lives if it furthered his plans. Just in the first book alone, he knew someone dangerous was trying to steal the Philosopher's Stone, so decided to store it in a school full of children that could end up as hostages and/or collateral damage. And it's guarded by a deadly creature behind nothing more than a locked door that a first year can open, complete with an announcement at start of term that points inquisitive students straight to it. And when there was a troll in the dungeon, he sent the kids out of the Great Hall where they could all be defended by the staff and to their common rooms, one of which (Slytherin's) is in the dungeons. And he left a mirror that he himself admitted is dangerous out in the open of an unused classroom without even bothering with a locked door.\
98This is arguably a massive flaw of Dumbledore's: he's long-sighted to a fault. He is so obsessed with the Second Wizarding War that he's forgotten his primary job. He's the headmaster of Hogwarts, and his most basic role is to keep the students safe. He tells Harry straight that he overlooks the fact that nameless and faceless people die and are slaughtered in order to achieve "The Greater Good" in his eyes. This actually mirrors Voldemort a little, to whom the majority of his murder victims are "nameless and faceless"[[note]]Of the six murders Voldemort committed to create the Horcruxes, only the first two (Moaning Myrtle for the diary, Tom Riddle Sr. for the ring) were significant to him, the others being unlucky people (a tramp for the the locket, Hepizbah Smith for the cup, an Albanian peasant for the diadem, and Bertha Jorkins for Nagini)[[/note]]: he doesn't remember them or care providing he is achieving what he wants. Dumbledore's "Greater Good, secrets and lies" principles never really changed from his time with Grindewald, the only difference between this and his rebellion as a teenager is that he is no longer acting this philosophy for personal power but genuinely for the good of the world. It still comes to the same thing: people are expendable in search of your goals. He's not deliberately cruel but he works to his own agenda, always.
99** Even before ''Half-Blood Prince'', Dumbledore (and probably all headmasters before him) overlooked a lot of messy things going on in Hogwarts. He hired an ex-Death Eater who still abused his students after switching sides and appointed him head of house for Slytherin. He hired someone he did not believe to be competent in the subject of Divination (he could have kept Trelawney around without giving her a job where she's supposed to teach students in a subject he does not believe she's actually good at), he did nothing to prevent Hagrid from exposing students to dangerous breeded animals like the Blast-ended Skrewts with which he wasted pretty much an entire school year and students were constantly getting injured, he kept a ghost teaching a class even though he was completely incapable of getting his students to pay attention (other than the ones like Hermione who will pay attention to any teacher no matter what). For a place that was constantly referred to as safer than most places, students seemed to be in constant danger inside the school.
100[[/folder]]
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102
103
104[[folder:The digestive tract is ''not'' a disposal system!]]
105* Why did Dumbledore have to drink the potion in ''Half-Blood Prince''? Couldn't he have conjured a bucket and just dumped it in there? And for that matter, if he DID have to drink it, couldn't Harry have conjured another goblet to fill with water?
106** Why use a bucket? "Now, I shall drink this potion, and - oops, I seem to have spilt it all." The potion seems to regenerate to a finite amount - it can be moved, but not destroyed, and so must be set aside. Pour the stuff into the lake, and nothing would happen.
107*** ^The potion was explicitly stated to be impossible to be scooped up. So using a bucket, a glass or a cup to empty the tank was impossible. It was also impossible to change its nature into something else, hence Dumbledore could not use the cup to empty the tank and change it into wine before drinking for example.
108** Probably some charm had been placed on the well that the potion has to be drunk in order to drain the well, otherwise it would automatically refill. As for Harry, clearly in his panic, he didn't consider all the options available to him, otherwise he'd simply conjure the water right into Dumbledore's mouth.
109** What? Harry DID try to conjure water. And every time he brought it near Dumbledore's mouth, it disappeared. The potion was cursed so that it could only be relieved by the water of the lake. This, upon contact, would set the Inferi on whoever tried taking it.
110** He conjured it into the goblet that had just held the potion; the paragraph above you seems to be suggesting... well, [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin exactly what it said.]] How could you miss that?
111** If the water disappeared by proximity, it's more than likely that if the water was conjured into his mouth, it would still disappear before Dumbledore could swallow it.
112** That cave's layered curses, which restrict intruders' actions so they're ''forced'' to trigger the Inferi to attack, Just Bug Me. If I tried something like that in a role-playing game, my players would throw things at me for {{railroading}} them! True, Voldemort is a control freak, but did he have to require ''that many'' frustrated actions to set off an ambush, that would've faced better odds if the trespassers were already in the boat and trying to leave?
113** Voldemort needed a way to restrict access to the Horcrux that would a) allow him access to it, b) forbid anyone else access to it, and c) (optionally) increase his power. So the potion tortures the drinker to the edge of insanity, meaning he has to have a sacrifice. Not too hard to accomplish. But Dumbledore is about the only person who would figure him out, have the skills to figure out all the traps, and get the Horcrux, and Dumbledore isn't likely to sacrifice anyone else or be accompanied by anyone who would sacrifice him. So they would have to go to the water. And then they would be dragged under, the Horcrux would (presumably) be returned to its resting place, the potion refilled, and he would have another Inferi. As for your tabletop group... well, if they see potentially animate corpses in the water and ''don't'' expect to be re-killing them at some point, they clearly haven't been rolling the dice for long enough.
114** The key is a Role-Playing *Group*. The traps are specifically set up to isolate and weaken one person. If Dumbledore hadn't been with Harry, he'd have never finished the potion.
115** Why would Voldemort expect just one person, though? Anyone with half a brain would have brought along a whole bunch of people, (and maybe a nice bottle of water, while they're at it) in case of incapacitating traps just like that potion. And yes, I know Dumbledore would be too noble to let anyone else drink the poison, but how about having along somebody useful who could apparate Harry out of there? Maybe Moody, Snape, or even a house-elf? Dumbledore couldn't have known that there was only the one trap and he would have enough time left to get Harry back to Hogwarts, so taking just an underage, pretty useless boy with him is pretty foolish.
116** The boat was enchanted so that it would only carry ''one'' adult wizard without sinking, and was small enough so that no more than two people could fit into it, anyway. I suspect that it was also enchanted against making empty trips across the water (and so cannot be used to ferry people over in multiple trips).
117** Unless Dumbledore had had the good sense to bring ''Fawkes'' along, which would have been the perfect CuttingTheKnot solution to Voldemort's traps. The phoenix can fly without recourse to magic, so wouldn't take up space in the boat. He can neutralize poisons, which relieves the worst of the potion's effects. And he can carry any amount of weight, so could lift Dumbledore, Harry, the Horcrux, and possibly the entire boat up out of the Inferi's reach for the return trip.
118** Phoenixes are not an panacea. Their tears have great healing powers, but they are never stated to be an antidote to every poisons on the face of the earth. This potion looks like an invention of the greatest dark lord ever seen in the HP universe, it would make sense that even phoenix tears would not work. Also remember that Dumbledore drank the potion because he had deduced that was how the defense system worked. But he did not know exactly what was the effects of the potion. We know for example that polyjuice has either adverse or no effects when not used by a human. From what Dumbledore knew, it was possible that the potion might be even more effective, or even lethal to anyone not human. What if the potion was set up to straight up kill anyone not human? or turn it into an inferi automatically? possibilities are endless. We know that house elves can drink it. Dumbledore and Harry don't. Also, the way Dumby speaks at the end makes me think that he thought he could handle it on his own, and might have underestimated Voldemort a bit, Harry was just insurance just in case. So he took a calculated risk using all the information he had, not necessarily unreasonable to me. Also, Dumbledore using the boat makes it ambiguous to inferis if it's voldemort (and thus not someone to attack) or not. A phoenix flying over the lake probably would have gotten the inferis to run berserk.
119** Well, Dumbledore assumed that the same way you can only remove the potion by drinking it, you can only pass using the boat.
120** Alternate solution: Step one, make a bowl out of a rock. Step two, transfigure another rock into a dog. Step three, use the goblet to scoop out the potion like you're supposed to, then pour it from the goblet into the bowl. Step four, use a Compulsion to make the dog drink the potion. Step five, turn the dog back into a rock. And step six, take the locket and be on your merry way.
121** Voldy probably had a defence against that. and Phoenixes are so magically powerful, they'd probably register as more than a wizard. Awesome idea though.
122** Voldy obviously didn't have a defence against house-elves, as per Kreacher's helping Regulus, so why should we assume any other magical critter was warded against? For that matter, why didn't our heroes think of using house-elf transport? God knows that Dobby would have been ecstatic to lend Harry a hand.
123** As far as Fawkes is concerned: he wouldn't have needed the boat, but we saw that the water swallowed anything that passed over the water that wasn't the boat (i.e. Harry's Summoning spell), so it would have just dragged Fawkes down. Even if it didn't, we don't know that the potion would qualify as a poison - aside from the thirst, its effects were purely psychological and we don't know that Fawkes can cure that. Why didn't the wizards think of house-elf aid? Because wizards — even nice wizards — are not used to thinking of house-elves as having any capabilities outside, well, the house. It took Harry ages to think of using Kreacher and Dobby to tail Draco, after all.
124** Ergo, he's an idiot. That isn't indicative of the rest of them, is it?
125** Prejudice against non-humans kicks in for our heroes the same way it, according to Hermione, kicks in for Voldemort. It's not prejudice in the sense of hatred, it's ignorance. Think of it this way: Voldemort didn't ignore the house-elf shaped hole in his protections because he hated house-elves and consciously ignored their power, he ignored the house-elf shaped hole in his protections because he doesn't think of house-elf as beings worthy of notice and therefore it doesn't occur to him that they have power he doesn't. Now, Harry , Dumbledore, and the other "good guys" don't have a conscious hatred of house-elves. But they do live in a society that ingrains systematic prejudice against house-elves. Ron and Dumbledore are the sort of people that don't actively hate house-elves, but are used to viewing them as subservient and otherwise "less than" wizards, which ends up carrying over into situations where they are ''not'' in fact "less than." Then you have Hermione on the other side of the issue. Yes, she campaigns for equal rights for house-elves. But that's just it: she views the house-elves as victims. She has a white-saviour-analogous complex that ignores the fact that house-elves don't serve wizards because they've been oppressed into doing so, they serve wizards as part of their culture. (IMPORTANT NOTE: I think that for Rowling to not only invent what's essentially a slave race but also vilify the one character who advocates for their freedom is all kinds of distasteful. But ''in universe'', we're meant to accept that house-elves at large are happy to work unpaid.) So Hermione, too, sees the house-elves are somewhat beneath her — for most of SPEW's run, she doesn't admire them or respect them, she ''pities'' them. Based on that, we see that most of the important good-aligned categories fall into one of those categories concerning house-elves, which makes it difficult for them to consider calling on house-elf aid to break through the Dark Lord's magic. Does it make them idiots? ''Of course it does''. But it's kind of idiocy that has a valid reason to exist in the HP world.
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128[[folder:Overfilling the bowl]]
129* If Moldy Shorts really wanted to stop anyone from getting to the Horcrux, why didn't he just fill the whole damn bowl with deadly poison?
130** What, didn't you read carefully? He would want to interrogate the intruder, which is why he made the poison that only incapacitates the drinker and invokes terrible thirst, which can only be quenched with water from the lake, whereupon the Inferi would immediately drown the intruder...Wait.
131** I assume that one person alone would have stopped taking the potion long before it invoked a thirst so terrible that they needed water from the lake to quench it. Harry has to force whole goblets full into Dumbledore, and the thirst only comes after everything's gone. No, what he wanted to do was incapacitate the person trying to take the Horcrux... in a place where he hasn't been at least since R.A.B. Uhm... no, I'm not following the reasoning here either...
132** Well, if he wanted to interrogate the intruder, it means there had to be some alarm notifying him that there was an intruder to interrogate. Meaning that DD went to drinking the potion, when, by his own reasoning, V should've either been on his way to the cave or already waiting outside for the intruder to drink and fall down. And Harry went along with it. Wait...
133** My best guess is that a) the boat was actually intended for one 'powerful wizard' (Dumbledore, Voldemort, possible Regulus) and one 'sacrifice' (a house-elf, an underage wizard) or b) whoever it might be that drank the potion would have been compelled to go to the water's edge anyway, saving Voldemort the trouble of having to actually kill them off and make them Inferi (how does that even happen, anyway?) Except... [[ExplainExplainOhCrap wait]]... Dumbledore thinks Voldemort would not want to immediately kill whoever was on the island. [[LampshadeHanging One day we'll get an answer...]]
134** It may have been in case he wanted to revisit the Horcrux himself, either just to check on it or to move it to a safer location. Even if he brings a sacrifice to empty the basin of potion in his place, if it were a poison, he'd have to bring a large handful of them in order to fully empty it, as each cupful would kill the one who drank it.
135** Yes, and, as we know, V would certainly balk from the prospective of killing several people for such a trivial reason. Or wouldn't he? [[spoiler:No, he wouldn't.]]
136** And from his perspective, if someone has found out about the lake and the Horcrux, he'd probably also want to interrogate them to find out if anyone ''else'' knows - so he can track them down.
137** He cannot interrogate ''anyone'', because there's no alarm and anyone who breaks into the cave will either leave, drink the potion and get killed or die, or bring a spare, steal the Horcrux and leave with V none the wiser.
138** Voldemort seems to have been operating under the impression that he'd automatically sense it if any of his Horcruxes were destroyed, so maybe he assumes that he'd also feel if they were ''endangered'', too. Granted, he didn't sense the diary's destruction, but he might have blamed that on his disembodied state having dulled his perceptions at the time that particular SoulJar got wrecked.
139*** The part about the diary at least is canon as of Deathly Hallows: "True, he had not felt it when the diary had been destroyed, but he had thought that was because he had no body to feel, being less than ghost ... no, surely, the rest were safe ..."
140[[/folder]]
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142[[folder:It's only funny 'till the Main Characters get hurt...]]
143* When they are learning apparition for the first time, when characters splinch themselves, it's kind of silly-looking and alarming, but they're physically fine... just not all together. In Deathly Hallows, when Ron splinches himself, there's blood everywhere and he's in terrible pain. Why the disconnect? They certainly never bring up 'oh, and there's a spell on the room to make splinching less painful, so Don't Try This At Home' or anything, which you'd think they would.
144** Maybe there was a spell to keep them from being seriously hurt. Or the Death Eaters know how to disrupt apparitions.
145** I would have thought that if the former point was true, that they would have said something. Also, in an early book, Arthur casually refers to people being splinched and needing to be set right - if it takes until some wizards happen to stop by and revert them, wouldn't they be worried about bleeding to death? It is true, though, maybe a Death Eater interrupted him somehow and caused the bad effects.
146** In ''Half-Blood Prince'', it does explicitly state that when the first girl splinches herself, she makes a shriek of pain. Maybe her splinching only hurt a little bit because her apparition power was weak in the first place, so she was only moving a few metres? Perhaps if a fully-grown wizard with full apparition powers splinches himself travelling a fairly long distance, the consequences are worse.
147** Distance probably had something to do with it, too. In Hogwarts, the kids were apparating, what, 2 feet. In the last book, Hermione was apparating two other people from somewhere in London into the middle of nowhere, while under immense stress.
148** It's simply one of many things in book six that does not fit in with what was written in the first five.
149** No, it does make kinda sense. Ron was missing a chunk out of his arm, meaning the skin broke. The other girl, Susan Bones, just lost her leg, which, I'm assuming, means that when she left her leg, the skin didn't break. There was no mention of blood, and really, when you lose a leg, there will be blood. It said she "was shaken" after that incident. If you were practicing magic and lost your leg, blood gushing, you wouldn't be shaken. I'd be scarred for life. And, wouldn't that elicit more than a shriek of pain?
150** Probably two types of Splinch - least serious one, you lose something, but your magic screws up to the point where it actually changes your body, making it less painful. More serious, you simply leave a chunk behind without changing the rest. Also, the time in HBP, there were many very powerful and trained wizards and witches to glue them back together. Theoretically even if one splinched one's head, they could cast the rebuild spell before you are brain dead.
151** The idea of two types of splinching makes sense. For my own part, I'm pretty sure they mentioned that splinching can do really bad things to you if you screw it up, hence even some adults not messing with it.
152** Hermione mentions after the splinching that there are spells to put splinching right immediately- but she's so shaken up that she doesn't have the confidence to do it.
153** Also, the teachers rushed in once the girl got splinched. Harry never saw the extent of the damage. He only heard her yell, then she was back to normal.
154** Well honestly, if you compare apparating to driving - which it parallels in a lot of ways - splinching is like a car accident. You have your simple fender benders where no one is hurt and you can laugh it off, and then serious accidents. The lessons in both apparition and driving are there to teach people to avoid these negative consequences. The situation where Ron gets splinched is highly unusual - side-along apparition with two people while on the run from a Death Eater and having to do so again seconds after you arrive at your destination because said Death Eater tagged along is not something that's going to happen every day.
155** Also, very importantly, when they get Splinched at Hogwarts, there are teachers all around. Going with the driving metaphor, it's the equivalent of banging into something in an abandoned parking lot while driving with an instructor next to you, whereas Ron got into a car crash on the highway.
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158[[folder:All right, who stuffed the plot into a Vanishing Cabinet?]]
159* Malfoy explains that he discovered how the Vanishing Cabinet worked when a character was stuffed into it the previous year... and escaped by Apparating into an upstairs toilet at Hogwarts. When you go to that much trouble to establish that you cannot Apparate or Disapparate on school grounds, HOW CAN YOU MISS THAT PLOT HOLE?
160** I always thought the stuffed-in-a-toilet thing WAS Hogwarts's defence system: sure you can Apparate, but only if you don't mind being stuffed into a toilet. Seems like the kind of thing Dumbledore would do. Note when the sixth years are learning, the teachers say if they try to Apparate further than the Great Hall they ''will not like the results'', not that it's impossible.
161** A vanishing cabinet is at least partially in one place, circumvents most of Hogwarts' defences, and that one was broken, remember? Not to mention that the character who managed to Apparate back in was ''nearly killed''.
162** If you can't Disapparate off Hogwarts grounds, and you can't Disapparate onto Hogwarts grounds, there's no reason to assume you should be able to Apparate from one part of the Hogwarts grounds to another. The vanishing cabinet being broken should have no effect at all on whether it's possible to Apparate out of it into a place that is reportedly impossible to Apparate into. And the text implies that he nearly died Apparating because he didn't know how to Apparate, not because of the enchantments.
163** It seemed to me that he didn't successfully Apparate out of the cabinet. He tried to, but the enchantment caused a magical backlash which shunted him into a Hogwarts bathroom and nearly killed him in the process.
164** The above would seem likely. If you recall the first Apparation lesson, the anti-Apparation wards have to be taken down in the great hall to let students Apparate even a few inches, and they are unable to practice outside of the scheduled lessons. Plus, if Apparation within the grounds was allowable, there would be many, many cases where it should have been used (medical emergencies, fights, etc.). It may not have been EXPLICITLY stated that the wards only prevented entering or leaving the grounds, but it's quite clear that any Apparation/Disapparation is guarded against. Though without at least a little "magical backlash from the attempt" handwave, it does appear to be a nasty little plothole...
165** People seem to be assuming that the anti-Apparation wards stop people from starting to apparate. We have no evidence of that. Apparation is a process, not instant teleportation, so perhaps the wards just 'kick out' anyone they catch apparating through the space they cover. You try to apparate into Hogwarts, you drop out at the boundary, you try it inside Hogwarts, and you make it a few feet and pop back out. To put in science fiction terms, perhaps the wards mean you are 'immediately forced to drop out of FTL', not that you cannot enter it for a split second. (We do see anti-Apparation wards at the Malfoy's in Deathly Hallow apparently stopping Ron from starting Apparation, but those might be different wards, and he was 'trying to Apparate without his wand' which might indicate he's trying to do something completely impossible anyway.)
166** If the cabinet hadn't been specially designed to circumvent security-spells, it's hard to explain why it would've been for sale in a Dark Arts store in the first place.
167** The Room of Requirement might have played a role. Perhaps it worked if you needed a Room which was somehow unaffected by Hogwarts's security.
168** The movie actually adds some background info to this, which one suspects came [[WordOfGod straight from the author]]. Harry asks Mr. Weasley about Vanishing Cabinets, and he (Mr. Weasley) explains that they always come in pairs and basically act as two-way transit portals. The line was something like, "They were all the rage during You-Know-Who's first reign of terror, because you could shut yourself into the cabinet, pop out somewhere else, (IE safe) and then return home later." You're ''supposed'' to use Vanishing Cabinets to travel and, if evidence is to be believed, they do indeed trump Hogwarts's Anti-Apparition defences. FridgeBrilliance suggests that this interplay might have helped Montague make his (nominally) impossible Apparition escape.
169** I was always incredibly amused by that line, because of the obvious logical fallacy involved. Think about it. You're running from someone, so you jump in a cabinet and reappear elsewhere in a matching cabinet. What's wrong with that? ''The Death Eater can follow you.'''
170** I'd assume it only works if both cabinets are closed. If you leave the one you escaped to open, they wouldn't be able to follow you.
171** There's also a difference between having Death Eaters storming your house from all sides, and Death Eaters climbing out of a cabinet one at a time. Especially if the other cabinet is at a friend's house, so you have reinforcements.
172** It would be ludicrously easy for the escapee - all they have to do is stand with their wand pointed at the vanishing cabinet entrance saying "Stupefy!" repeatedly.
173*** And if you want to nitpick, when they were first designed, the enemies naturally wouldn't know about them at first. So they wouldn't know to go into the cabinet to follow someone. We could assume since they're not widely used nowadays that they fell out of fashion because everyone was using them.
174*** Also, once you got out of the Cabinet, you could immediately spin around and destroy the one you came out from. Death Eater wants to follow you? Let them go right ahead, they'll be stuck in limbo like Montague.
175** So, a character gets stuffed into a cabinet, disappears to ''somewhere'', and escapes by Apparating into a toilet. From this, Draco deduces: 1) that it's a broken vanishing cabinet, and 2) that the other part of the pair of cabinets is in Borgin's & Burke's. Seems to me that that isn't enough information to figure out either of them, let alone both.
176** First, everyone knew it was a broken vanishing cabinet, since [[CallBack Peeves broke it in Chamber of Secrets]]. That's why it's only ever referred to as "the broken vanishing cabinet", not "that presumably mundane cabinet that Montague mysteriously vanished in, yet we see no need for further investigation". Second, Montague was shaken up, but he apparently remembered enough to tell Draco about his experience (this is specifically stated in the book) of being trapped in a limbo between the cabinets where he could hear voices from both Hogwarts and Borgin & Burke's.
177[[/folder]]
178
179[[folder:Who needs alarms, anyhow?]]
180* Voldemort doesn't bother to put secrecy sensor spells all over either the cave or the Gaunt shack so that he would be alerted to somebody entering it. He would have Dumbledore dead by now and 2 of his Horcruxes safe and sound if he had made sure he could intercept anybody who came near the Gaunt shack.
181** That's because Voldy believes no-one would even ever come close to finding any of his Horcruxes, and even if they did, he would still be convinced the protective curses would be sufficient to guard them.
182** And, remember, he put all sorts of ''other'' traps on the cave. Dumbledore [[TakeAThirdOption Took A Third Option]] to get through them, but, had they worked as intended (IE had Harry not been there), Dumbledore ''would've'' been dead and the Horcrux safe and sound. Furthermore, what makes you think that Lord Thingy ''didn't'' put all sorts of traps and stuff on the Gaunt shack? Dumbledore didn't say anything about that one way or the other, only that "it is a thrilling tale; I wish to do it justice." (Which, of course, he [[ShaggyDogStory never got to tell]].) Now, as to why You-Know-Who didn't put ''real-time'' alarm systems on the places, relying on his traps instead of doing the job right himself... Well, you got us there. But the point is, that's the ''only'' thing he forgot. And the rest was pretty competent.
183** Overconfidence. First, he thought that no one knew that he had created a Horcrux, much less seven. Secondly, he thought that his numerous safeguards would be effective. The locket was in a bowl of poison surrounded by an army of the undead. The diadem wasn't warded, but Voldemort thought that he was the only one who'd ever found the Room of Requirement, and Hogwarts is the single most well-guarded place in the Wizarding World. The ring was hidden in a rundown shack and filled to the brim with curses. The cup and the book were given to his most trusted lieutenants, and Nagini was with him at all times.
184** Really, who's to say he ''didn't'' have magical burglar alarms for those Horcruxes? We really don't know how much work Dumbledore did getting at them, so they might've been bypassed entirely.
185** Regulus Black managed to go in and steal the locket uninterrupted, and Harry and Co. managed to steal both the cup and the diadem with V only learning of it from third people or not at all. It's like he's somehow opposed to the idea of learning about attempts at his most prized possessions.
186** My theory is if he put a spell on a place that directly linked to him, any sufficiently powerful wizard would be able to spot that a mile away and all the authorities would know something serious was going on there. So Voldemort, believing that no one knew about his making Horcruxes and so wouldn't go looking for them, thought it safer to leave off the sensor spells so there wouldn't be a big flashing "Voldemort thinks this place is important" flag.
187** He also believed that if one of his Horcruxes was destroyed, he would feel it. He honestly thought that they would act as his own burglar alarm, because it didn't occur to him that, if someone managed to get to the Horcruxes, that they wouldn't immediately just Fiendfyre it.
188** An alarm that goes off only when the treasure is destroyed is a pretty shitty alarm in my book.
189** But an alarm that goes off when one of six different objects, scattered around in various places across the country, is destroyed is not such a bad thing; it means you have been warned that the other five might be in danger too and that you should immediately take extra security measures to protect them. After all, Voldemort can survive just fine if only one or two Horcruxes are destroyed; it's only when ''all'' of them are destroyed he's vulnerable.
190** But it doesn't allow him to capture the perpetrator or at least learn their identity, and that is a gaping flaw, because anyone who's able to learn about the Horcruxes, deduce the location of at least one of them and destroy it, is obviously a HUGE threat, whether or not they find the rest, since, as the Potter incident demonstrated, V ''is'' vulnerable even with them. DD himself, in a fleeting moment of lucidity, admitted that V would want to interrogate whoever broke into the cave. Too bad, Harry was too brainwashed to think for himself by that moment, or else he would've made the obvious conclusion that in that case V would ''have'' to have an alarm in the cave, and he was either on his way or already standing at the entrance, waiting for DD to drink the poison and keel over, meaning their plan, what a shock, made no goddamn sense.
191** But there ''was'' no alarm, because Voldemort mistakenly thought he'd automatically know something happened to the Horcruxes. Presumably he didn't think any other warning system was necessary, and/or that the protection he'd placed would be enough -- as well as the little fact that he thought nobody else knew the Horcruxes even existed. Now, perhaps Dumbledore suspected this and perhaps he didn't; but the plan might begin making a little more sense if we take into account that Dumbledore was ''planning to die.'' He'd already arranged for Snape to kill him, and though I doubt the way things played out was his preferred way (he didn't know that the Horcrux was a fake, for one thing), the goal might simply have been to weaken himself to make it easier on Snape to perform a mercy killing, and subsequently becoming both the master of the Elder Wand and gaining Voldemort's complete trust. In addition, the plan is no doubt a test of Harry; Harry has shown himself capable of big things, but is he truly up for the task of locating and dealing with the rest of the Horcruxes? Does he have what it takes to do what he ''has'' to do? Seems like Dumbledore, in the end, is convinced that the entire cave trip proved that yes, he does.
192** No, sorry, it really might not. Because before all that you've mentioned even begins to come into play, they first need to get out of the cave alive, and by DD's own reasoning that is just not going to happen. He says that the potion would not be instantly lethal, because V would want to interrogate the thief. Fair enough. BUT. In order to interrogate someone, you need to know they are there to interrogate, don't you? And you obviously need to know it fast, otherwise the thief will either expire or be rescued, and the destruction of the Horcrux is not a suitable trigger, because by then it would be way too late to do anything. So, again, ''by DD's own logic'', V has either already learned about the break in, or would learn once he drinks the potion (which ''is'' a good trigger, since it means that the thief will not go anyway anytime soon and is ripe for picking). Or he's just wrong, and the potion is lethal. And no, the fact that in the end there was no alarm is not a valid justification, because DD couldn't have known that in advance (unless he realises that he's a character of a book, whose author knows no way of resolving the hardships she puts her characters through, other than making antagonists arbitrarily terminally stupid). And no, you cannot say that there was an alarm, but DD disabled it, because Regulus Black had already performed the same insane trick before and all above applies to him as well.
193** I wasn't going to say there was an alarm that Dumbledore disabled, because there clearly ''wasn't''... Voldemort thought that there was no need for one because he mistakenly believed he'd know if something happened to the Horcruxes. So in his mind the Horcrux itself ''would'' have been the alarm (and the culprit would be helpless thanks to the potion), except he was wrong about that vital detail. As for Dumbledore's plan... I don't see why you insist it doesn't make sense. Seems straightforward enough to me. Dumbledore knows he's dying, and he hopes he's taught Harry all he needs to know in order to put the clues together. He thinks he's found the location of another Horcrux, he suspects that the security measures in place will be too much for one person alone, and while he knows it's dangerous he also knows Harry has survived dangerous things before and will need to survive more dangerous things since. So, he takes Harry and goes to find the Horcrux. It's clear when reading the chapter that Dumbledore doesn't ''know'' what he'll be up against, but he is fairly confident that he (thanks to an insight in how Voldemort's mind works) can manage to surpass everything, and he trusts Harry to be able to help him. And if worst comes to worst, well, he's planning to die anyway; if this place kills one of them through alarm or Death Eaters or whatever, he's going to make sure it's ''him'' who dies (or at least is sufficiently weakened) and not Harry -- who is more important. When they come to the potion, Dumbledore admits he has no idea what it does, but he says he doubts it will kill him, just incapacitate him because Voldemort will want to interrogate intruders. So here's where he puts his trust in Harry and tells Harry to go through and force him to drink the entire potion -- he also puts his trust in Harry to get them both (or at least himself) out. Which Harry does. With a weakened Dumbledore who can now easily be killed by Snape. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm not quite sure what part of this plan doesn't make sense? Especially taking into consideration, that it, y'know, ''worked''?
194** Ok, first of all, if we are going to discuss this, the "it worked" argument is invalid by default. Of course, it "worked", it's a story, and things happen in it the way author wills it. The subject of this discussion is whether or not there was a good ''in-universe'' reason for them to happen that way, and if the characters the way they were presented would actually act that way in those circumstances, or if the author just pulled the resolution out of the ether. And unless ''I'm'' missing something (I'm always open to that possibility, which is why I bother doing this), there wasn't, they wouldn't, and she did. Repeatedly, throughout the narration (if you're fine with that, then there's nothing to discuss). Case in point. In "Deathly Hallows" V muses that he'd sense if a Horcrux was ''destroyed'' - not just if "if something happened to it" (Which is already a stretch, BTW, since there was no reason why he wouldn't simply ''test'' that assumption). And I see no reason why he would prefer to use the destruction of his treasure as an alarm trigger, rather than the break in or the consumption of the potion. Now, to DD's plan. Answering your question, this the exact part that makes no sense: "if this place kills one of them through alarm or Death Eaters or whatever, he's going to make sure it's ''him'' who dies and not Harry". You see, "Whatever", by his own reasoning, would be '''Voldemort''', who would promptly arrive to interrogate the thief, before they are drowned by Inferi or somehow escape or are rescued. If you dismiss this outcome, then there's no reason left for the potion not to be lethal, the Horcrux is inaccessible (and was likewise for Regulus), the whole plan is null and void. If you accept this outcome, it means that ''neither of them'' will survive (because, well, Voldemort), the whole plan is even nuller and voider. Again, please restrain from saying "but there was no alarm", because it doesn't matter, since '''DD did not know that in advance'''.
195** The only solution for "Voldemort wants to interrogate the would be thief" and "no alarm went off" would be that the alarm is set to go off ONLY if the potion is drunk from but not finished. He's arrogant enough to think that no-one would figure out how to bring a sacrifice for the potion to drink it all, so clearly if the potion is finished it's him there. And when Voldie is checking his Locket he doesn't want an alarm going off in his head.
196** And yet he's humble enough to admit that someone might figure out where the cave in and how to get in. If you allow your enemies ''that'' feat you cannot then deny them something so simple. Also, what does he care if the alarm goes off on him or not if it keeps the thing safe?
197** Probably because he doesn’t want to have an alarm ringing in his head every time a raccoon enters the cave. Besides such alarm was useless for a large amount of time as he was in ghost form like for 12 years unable to answer any disturbance in the Force.
198*** A raccoon that is capable of making the blood sacrifice necessary to open the cave? I think that shit warrants some extra attention! "such alarm was useless for a large amount of time" - yes, and?..
199** Or maybe Harry was mistaken in assuming the Inferi were ''trying'' to kill him and Dumbledore outright. We don't know how complicated a set of instructions such creatures are capable of following, so it's possible they were under orders to dog-pile any intruders who set off the trap and capture them alive, ''then'' activate an alarm which would summon Voldemort. It's not that Voldemort didn't anticipate the possibility that someone would invade the cave, it's that he neglected to tell the Inferi to summon him ''even if trespassers escaped them''.
200*** Doesn't work, that's not what happened with Regulus, they just drowned him.
201** Magic leaves traces, which Dumbledore shows in the cave that he can both detect just by being near the place and tell who placed the enchantments. If someone were to stumble through to ruin of the old house and find a ring, they may think little of it, but if there's active magic around the area it might raise suspicion.
202** From what we saw, if Harry had not been there, then Dumbledore would have been unable to finish the potion, and unable to escape. But as he would also have been unable to get to the water on his own, it means that morst likely, he would have lied there until Voldemort would have taken a stroll around the cave. Hence perhaps, why Voldemort did not feel the need to equip an alarm, any fool trying to steal an horcruxe would have failed and then lied there indefinitely until Voldemort decided to come. Another possiility is that Voldemort implemented alarms designed to ring IF AND ONLY IF something went wrong in his defenses. But technically, both Harry and Dumbledore followed the expected process quite rigorously. They went through the entrance, used the blood to open the door, etc, and as such, the defense system did not register that this was not voldemort. Dumbledore mentioned that indeed, at least until they reached the island, the entire defense system was unable to pick up that they were not Voldemort. It's possible that if another wizard had tried to explode his way down the cave, swim through the lake instead of using the boat, he would have been alerted. Voldemort thinking that absolutely nobody would be able to imagine he had horcruxes might be pushing it. But Voldemort imagining that nobody would be resourceful enough to not only know that he had an horcruxe, but also track it down, and then identify the correct process to go through the defense might be easier to swallow.
203* Just a couple of points: 1. If Voldie relies on feeling the destruction of the Horcrux as an alarm AND wants to interrogate the thief, he'd better have something like a bug on the Horcrux itself. Because there's no guarantee that it will be destroyed there and then rather than transported somewhere else first. 2. Ironically, the thief might have never even heard the H-word. He might have taken Salazar Slytherin's locket because, well, it's Salazar Slytherin's locket. Think ''particularly'' cynical Mundungus Fletcher of a scoundrel who isn't above sacrificing a couple of lives in the process. In this case Voldemort might feel some ''immense'' humiliation but, hey, the Horcrux is intact.
204[[/folder]]
205
206[[folder:Why don't the Muggles just shoot them?]]
207* The Death Eaters should have suffered ''some'' casualties when they wiped out the Muggle town in the sixth book. While they had magic and maybe giants, Muggles there had what are known as guns. These (for those of you who aren't familiar with them) shoot lead/steel at a rate that no human, magical or otherwise, can react fast enough to stop the bullets from hitting them. You'd think that ''someone'' in the whole city would have tried ''shooting'' at the Death Eaters and killing them. They may be magical, but if a bullet goes through their head, they're as dead as anyone. And we already know that the Death Eaters don't put protective charms on themselves even when they face magical opponents, so they ''certainly'' wouldn't have done it when facing lowly Muggles.
208** Oh, FFS! 1: The books are set in the UK, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control#United_Kingdom where most people go their entire lives without seeing a gun.]] Yes, people in the countryside have guns for pest and predator control, but this was a ''town'' that was attacked, not a village or a farmhouse. 2: It's a series of children's books, not ''The Adventures of Young Literature/JackRyan''; the characters aren't going to go around shooting everything. 3: One of the big points of the stories is that killing damages the soul, so it would be bad writing to suddenly have the {{Designated Victim}}s pull out guns and start killing the Mooks. 4: The books are set in the UK, [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment where most people go their entire lives without seeing a gun.]] And yes, I realise that point 4 is the same as point 1, [[Series/RedDwarf but it's such a big point that people keep ignoring, I thought I'd better mention it twice]].
209** Did it ever specify that the Death Eaters suffered no casualties? Now you're just reaching.
210** The books take place in Britain, which has strict gun laws. Hell, there's been a crack down on knives.
211** This is UsefulNotes/{{The West Country}}. [[Film/{{HotFuzz}} Everyone and their mum is packing 'round here.]]
212** This is ''Literature/HarryPotter'' we're talking about, and Rowling is not going to make the Death Eaters or Voldemort look less scary by getting hurt. There weren't any stories about any casualties for the same reason as there weren't many tales about [=DEs=] getting killed in hit-and-run tactics or any operation that went badly wrong: To add atmosphere and remind everyone that the Dark Lord is very scary and ''hard'' to beat. After all, which is worse: Death Eaters going through a town levelling everything, or Death Eaters levelling everything but the Ministry finding some Death Eater bodies in the wreckage and some of the suspected Death Eaters "disappearing" or dying under "mysterious circumstances" shortly after the rampage?
213** Which is a good Doylian answer, but it still doesn't make sense from a Watsonian perspective. You COULD, by the same logic, have Voldemort take a stroll through Hogwarts, drop by Dumbledore's office for tea, then leave without anyone ever making a move against him, because he can't be defeated until the seventh book. But that wouldn't make any Watsonian sense either.
214** First of all, wizards can conjure up shields in a second if they have to, or turn things like bullets to dust. Second of all, wizards can magically heal themselves in an instant if they were shot but didn't die immediately (like an armshot or something that would cause death from bleeding). Third of all, wizards can make themselves invisible and fly through spells and enchanted items, which gives them a good element of surprise. Fourth of all, wizards have spells that can stun, torture, brainwash, or ''kill'' a person with one word (nonverbal even), so all said wizard would have to do would be to cast the spell from behind something or while invisible. Finally, keep in mind that as far as Muggles know, there are no wizards. Thus, they won't be on alert for people who can kill with one word or turn invisible or fly or magically shield and heal themselves. Not to say that a gun couldn't hurt or stop a wizard, but since Voldemort only accepts his strongest and most loyal followers as Death Eaters, it's pretty unlikely that he would use someone who could be held off or killed by a non-magic weapon used by a non-magic and unprepared person.
215** It takes longer to say, "Protego!" than it does for a bullet to fly through the air. Same for turning a bullet into dust; the bullet flies quicker than the human can react. You will not be able to cast a spell on something moving that fast before it hits you. And even if you could, dust moving at that velocity would still be incredibly painful if not outright lethal. And yes, Muggles don't know that wizards exist, but if a bunch of people in black cloaks walk into a town with magic wands throwing explosions and green flashes of death everywhere, they don't have to believe; they just have to kill it. As for instant healing, flying, and invisibility, I don't recall ever seeing any of those spells used. Flying on a broom and turning invisible with a unique Deadly Hallow, sure, but not by casting a spell. And if people could heal from any injury with a single casting, Hogwarts wouldn't need to have a medical area at all, would it? Being a wizard does not mean you're God. You can still die from a lethal injury, just like anyone else.
216** Valid points, but I would like to clarify a few things. There are invisibility cloaks besides Harry's, Moody owns two and he also uses the Disillusionment spell on Harry in the 5th book to turn him almost invisible (it's described as a near-perfect camouflage). Also the only way a wizard can win against a gun is if they transfigure the gun itself or shield before the gun can fire.
217** What's the OP's point anyway? That Muggles might try to retaliate and even succeed in killing some DE? Ok, unlikely but maybe, so?
218** A wizard can't cast a spell faster than a bullet travels, but they have a decent chance of casting a Protego or gun-disabling spell faster than someone can draw their gun, aim, and shoot, and if the Muggle doesn't get an instant kill, a wizard can probably still kill them while bleeding profusely. This is even assuming that the muggle carries a gun on his person, which is unlikely in itself.
219** May I point out that wizards don't know what guns are? In ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban The Prisoner of Azkaban]]'', the paper has to explain that "Sirius may have a gun (a metal wand used to kill people)", this in itself bugs me and is a massive wallbanger.
220** The majority of civilian wizards don't. But a wizard that's very experienced in fighting and killing Muggles probably would have seen a gun at some point.
221** Yes, yes, valid points all, but it stands to be reiterated again that this is BRITAIN! The only people in Britain who legally carry guns are the police and farmers, and even then it's special divisions of the police who aren't on constant patrol, even in the major cities. So potentially, in this scenario of an attack on a town, there might be some criminals who would be able to return fire, but even if there were, they would be so few in number that it's unlikely they would be a serious threat. And given how fast a group of wizards can attack, they'd be gone before the armed police ever showed up. Stop trying to apply American laws to a series which takes place in Britain. Gun control laws are much, much stricter.
222** Except that it states they wiped out the entire town -- including the police and "criminals" (as you put it). The police didn't have to arrive on the scene on time, the Death Eaters marched up to their door!
223** FFS! Guns are SO RARE in Britain that even the rare divisions of the police that have them (and even that's a fairly recent innovation that a lot of British people aren't too keen on) are not going to be found in a small town. If a death eater goes up to a police station in even a large town, never mind them not reacting in time - there wouldn't even be armed officers there. I am British and I cannot emphasise enough that guns are so rare and so associated with "bad guys" that it simply would not occur to even a muggle-born to use one. They're not very high up in the collective consciousness. Like Rowling herself, most British people - like me - were never really bothered by the lack of guns in the book precisely because they're so hard to get hold of over here, even through criminal channels.
224** Accidental magic, anyone? Grindelwald wouldn't have caused World War II if he could've been shot in the face. Plus, wizards are tougher than Muggles: Harry swims through heavy hot gold, Neville bounces when dropped on his head, Quidditch players are routinely smashed in the head with lead balls and so on. Also, I have a theory that subconscious magic is most effective against Muggles, ergo why Voldemort didn't shoot Lily and James. It's hard to shoot someone with a gun that has just become a haddock.
225** If we're talking the wizarding world vs. Muggles in general, if the wizards were openly fighting against the Muggles, and they were obvious and visible, then the Muggles would win, hands down. Wizards don't have spells capable of the scale of destruction that Muggle weaponry does, and there are much fewer wizards in the world than there are Muggles. However, if we're talking defenceless Muggle villagers vs. Death Eaters, well, a) the Muggles weren't expecting any wizards to show up, b) guns are heavily restricted in Britain, so the likelihood of people ''having'' weapons to fight the [=DEs=] is also very low, c) the[=DEs=]could easily just Disapparate before anyone dangerous, like the Muggle military, decided to show up. While wizards are tough, they are definitely not bulletproof; WordOfGod says that if a wizard were to go up against a Muggle with a gun, the Muggle would win, though the wizard would probably just Disapparate before that happened.
226* The existence of non verbal spells mean they should be able to cast as quickly as someone pulls a trigger. Bullets still hold the advantage, being too small to be seen at their speed, less likely to misfire and impossible to backfire, but it is very probable even armed muggles could be wiped out if they were caught with their pants down.
227* There is a widespread, but highly false, belief that gun usage is easy, accurate and instantaneous. In reality, it takes time to draw and aim a firearm. This is part of the not-well-known fact that in warfare the vast majority of rounds fired, even by professional trained soldiers, do not result in casualties. Hollywood gunfights usually present a ridiculously exaggerated depiction of firing speed and accuracy. But if held to real life standards, a prepared wizard could easily have shielding charms in place before the person with the gun is finished aiming and pulling the trigger. Especially if the person with the gun hesitates even slightly before shooting at another human being, which most will.
228* ^. Seconded soooo much. Using guns agains another human being is actually hard, mentally and physically. Also, what most people here seem to forget is that the DE are using hit & runs tactics against unprepared and unsuspecting civilians, using means the latter would not even imagine. They easily drop by unnanouced and without warning, anywhere, even some place the muggle would consider impossible to attack, proceed to crucio and AK everyone at random. Then once they have a good laugh, they teleport away without leaving any means to track them before anyone has time to calm down and summon authorities. We have trouble defending ourselves against muggle school shooters or terrorists. Now imagine those guys being able to be invisible, teleport, torture/kill with a flick of the wrist at will. No way in hell any unprepared, panicking and shocked muggle (who most likely never fought with a gun, assuming of course that he does have one, which is a tall order already) is going to be able to kill a DE anytime soon, unless they drank gallons of felix felicis. Perhaps, if the Ministry was not oblviating the witness and maintaining the masquerade they would be able to wise up, learn and find counters, or at least be an in alert state. But a side effect of the masquerade is that it ensures that the muggles STAY as unprepared as possible to face unknown magic-wielding terrorists.
229** There are ''so'' many ways wizards could wipe out a town beyond personally attacking people one on one. Like, create a magic fire that can't be put out, hex all the exits out of town so that people trying to flee find themselves turned around, and just let the whole thing burn. Fly overhead and conjure up poisonous animals to drop on the people below. Or maybe just cast the Imperious Curse on a bunch of the townsfolk, and tell them to go on a killing spree.
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232[[folder:"Cheating"]]
233* Why do the characters think of Harry using the Half-Blood Prince's book as cheating? I thought the whole point of Potions class is to be able to successfully create different potions, so what difference does it make if someone uses different instructions? And why is Harry so desperate to hide the book from Snape at the end? If anything, the whole Sectumsempra incident was Snape's fault for leaving the damn book lying around where some student could pick it up!
234** It's cheating because Harry was using a different formula, a ''better'' formula than the ones the rest of the class was using, giving him an unfair advantage. His potions weren't better than Hermione's because of his skill, it was because somebody wrote in the book. It's the equivalent of having all the equations worked out for you in a math book. Harry wanted to hide it because he wanted to excel at potions, and he knew that if it were discovered, a teacher would confiscate it, and he'd go back to sucking at Potions again. It'd also ruin his reputation just when he's starting to build it back up.
235** Yeah, but in a subject like mathematics, the point is for the student to work it out for themselves, but in a class like potions, it's about following the instructions, pure and simple. It's not about beating other students in a contest, it's about learning how to make potions, and if Harry's found a set of instructions that work better, then really the only thing he's doing wrong is not telling Slughorn so that the rest of the class can benefit.
236** I beg to differ: You only get so far by following the instructions. To fully understand potion making, you have to understand the properties of each ingredient and how they interact. There is a lesson when Slughorn gives the students different poisons to analyze and has them brew antidotes. Harry almost fails that because the book cannot help him with the problem. (He only succeeds by giving Slughorn a Bezoar, an all-round antidote, instead of really solving the problem.)
237** The implication is that Harry is allowing Slughorn to believe that he's following the instructions he was given to better success, or that he understands the theory behind them so he doesn't need the instructions. Imagine a baking contest where two people are given the same ingredients but two different recipes to make bread. It's not fair that the person with a superior recipe that he didn't come up with or even understand got to win.
238** Exactly. Harry is letting Slughorn believe that he is struck with inspiration and genius ideas to improve upon the recipe he's been given. He's getting better grades because he is being told better instructions. That's the dishonesty. If he'd said 'oh, yes, professor, I got the idea to add this from the annotations in this book' then he wouldn't get such lavish praise or be top of the class.
239** Except that, despite Hermione's attitude to the contrary, Slughorn's class is '''not''' a contest to see who can make the best potions; it is supposed to be a learning environment where students can learn how to brew their own potions for when they need to do so after they have left the school. Harry is doing nothing wrong by using and practicing better techniques of potion making than what are written in the standard textbook; indeed, as the above paragraph says, the only thing Harry did wrong was not sharing his newly found repository of knowledge with the other students so that all his classmates could learn the better ways of making potions.
240** Oh, get real! Of course it ''is'' a contest. '''Every''' lesson is a contest, anywhere, anytime. It's a chase after a better grade, after teachers' praise and classmates' envy. So, naturally, using better equipment that gives you better starting conditions is considered cheating. And cheating is only forgiven by other kids if you do not rub your fixed success into their faces - that is, do not boast about it and '''definitely''' are not approved for it explicitly by the teacher. In this case, you've fooled the System and you are cool. If you do boast or you are approved (that is pretty much the same), then you are a rat and will be hated. Which is exactly what we've witnessed. Besides, he offered the book to his friends, but Ron couldn't discern the writing and Hermione angrily rejected it. Which proves succinct: it's not about learning stuff, it's all about being number 1 and getting away with it.
241** The comments in the previous paragraph show just how far modern educational policy has gone off the rails. Education should not be about racking up points as if it is a video game; the purpose of education is to give those learning a deeper understanding of the subject concerned. The tests and points involved were only ever supposed to be used as a yardstick to gauge the success (or lack thereof) of the understanding and see what needed to be improved upon. Somewhere along the way, the points have become the ends in and of themselves instead of the means to the ends.
242** Remember, we're talking about this from the perspective of the students. As I know from experience, even without grades, kids will find a way to compete - they just make it easier to measure who wins. The teacher's goal is still to teach the student, even if the student just wants an A - or, in this case, an E or an O. Also, have you ever heard of the concept of "gamification"? One of the possible implementations is exactly that - giving points, ala a video game, for doing something praiseworthy in school.
243** It explicitly ''is'' a contest; Slughorn hands out prizes (like the Felix Felices potion) to the winner.
244** He hands out a prize ONCE. So ONE class, about making that specific potion, was a contest. Sometimes teachers in real life do that as well, to make things a bit more fun. But it isn't the raison d’être of the class - students don't sign up for it so they will be able to collect various valuable prizes throughout the year. They sign up either because they want to learn or because their intended professions require them to, and their professions will require them to because they need students to have the necessary potions knowledge in order to do certain tasks. So, yeah, the point of the class is still learning, not competing. That said, Hermione has actual grounds to be annoyed if she objects only to Harry winning the Felix Felices from his fellow classmates, since that actually ''was'' unfair. But she seems to be annoyed at him for using the book in general, and thinks he should get rid of it rather than share it with everyone else.
245** Her annoyance at Harry beating her in potions was just nerd jealousy. But of course, she has an extremely valid reason for telling him to give it up: A student fucking with a book of powerful magic they don't understand was kind of the plot of Chamber of Secrets. Hermione even brings Ginny over to chastise him about it.
246** If she is scared about things like that, she could have had him turn the book over to an adult, like Slughorn or Dumbledore, to check out. But instead, she wants him to throw away a source of knowledge that could potentially benefit all students.
247** As a paragraph above noted, it isn't a contest, it's about learning the various ingredients and how they interact with one another. What Harry's doing isn't learning. It's equivalent to copying the answers to a homework sheet off someone else's homework; he doesn't know the material, and the only reason he's getting good grades is because he has a Cheat Sheet to give him all the answers he needs to get those grades. He'll walk away from the class having coasted through on someone else's hard work and learned nothing.
248** If Harry isn't learning, neither are any of the other students. They are both just following (and probably memorizing) instructions that someone else wrote down; Harry's instructions just happen to be an improved version of everyone else's. We also saw that the book has theory sections, but any notes Snape could have written down about those would only be insights and aids to understanding the theory. Unless Snape had the exact same homework assignments and tests that Harry did all those years later, there is no way he could have written a "cheat sheet" for Harry to use. There is NO CHEATING, just a better textbook, with better formulas and better explanations for concepts.
249** What really gets me about the whole thing is Hermione's massively OOC reaction, and I'm not referring to the nerd jealousy. I'm referring to the part where Hermione Granger saw a ''book'' filled with ''knowledge she didn't have yet'' and had '''ANY''' reaction other than nagging Harry day and night until he finally agreed to let her read it too.
250** I'd say it's pretty in character, for the same reason she isn't a Ravenclaw and is so frustrated by Luna: her goal isn't learning, it's being the best at established paths where academia is concerned. A book scribbled in by a sketchy previous student is very different to Hermione than an updated, peer-reviewed book. If the scribblings are actually effective, it makes her angrier because it doesn't fit with her idea of how the world should work, and she doesn't trust it.
251** Also, if I recall correctly, the only character to accuse Harry of cheating is Hermione, who is probably somewhat prissy at having been bested at potions and might have allowed that to cloud her judgment (Hermione isn't exactly known for being able to keep her emotions in check).
252** Though one could still wonder why Harry couldn't see through that after all of these years. Indeed, something is very wrong if students are brought up to think the alternate ways to brew potions are the wrong ones, especially since everyone could benefit from it, both to see the recipe in a new light and understand why the alternative ways wouldn't work. Imagine a history class where students were afraid to bring up stuff they'd read in updated literature...
253** Harry couldn't see because he is a moron most of the time...
254** Although, I noticed while re-reading book 5 that Snape frequently puts his instructions for potions on the board; the students in his class are NOT learning from the book, but from his provided recipes. It is very likely that he has been teaching the alternative, more efficient formulas he has discovered, rather than the unrefined recipes from the book. (But it is still cheating for Harry to use a different formula - not one he found himself, but took from a more advanced potions maker, while the rest of the class is stuck with a more time-consuming recipe.)
255** No need to imagine - I ''saw'' that. Prior to a Literature exam, our teacher said it in clear: just write a standard cut-and-dried paper - nobody cares about any smart ideas you might have. That's the way education works - you do what's expected from you.
256** Not necessarily. Sure, there are a lot of extremely incompetent teachers in real life (protected by the combined blights of unions and teacher scarcity due to low pay, not to mention inefficient government bureaucracy in public schools), but there are a few good ones who care about truly smart ideas and individuals and would have realized not using updated literature was retarded.
257** I sympathize with the ones who mentioned the literature teacher. And, in Harry's defence, he ''did'' offer his friends the opportunity to cheat ''with'' him.
258** The reason for the literature teacher's instruction is probably that 99% of the time your smart ideas aren't nearly as smart as you think they are. You might think it's hilarious to do a Marxist critique of a Shakespeare play, but highschoolers and undergrads just do not have the intellectual tools to pull it off.
259*** Maybe not, but students can and should exercise their brains to really think in-depth about the material. Actual smart ideas require practice. If anything, the professor should have encouraged it, and when a student did a half-witted job, explained ''why'' it was a bad paper and how they could do better in future. That's called, you know, teaching.
260** Why is no one questioning that there's something suspicious about the contest in the first place? Slughorn gives them a simple potion to brew; it doesn't matter how hard it the potion is to make, it's still a simple set of instructions, and the winner just happens to receive a rare and powerful potion. No school board would let a textbook be printed if the instructions were clearly wrong, so obviously it was done DELIBERATELY. Yes, it's important to learn the material and memorize it, but there's more to it than that. Slughorn was teaching them that not everything is 100% correct, and if you want to be a potions master, you need to experiment with formulas. You think something can be improved, try another solution, you think something can be done another way, then test it. A chef isn't well praised for following the same recipe, he's always adding to it, and new formulas are tested in science and maths to learn new ones, otherwise technology would stop progressing. The class can learn the formulas, but they won't succeed if that's all they're doing. So the kids are given a terrible book where EVERY instruction is wrong, and Slughorn's expecting them to slip out of their regular routine as sheep following the herd and start questioning "why aren't the instructions working". Snape knew this and solved it, Harry didn't, he just continued doing what the instructions told him, the exact opposite of what Slughorn was trying to get across. I think the reason Hermione was so devastated wasn't because Harry bested her, it was because she figured out too late what was expected from her. She's always viewed her textbooks as the bible, thinking they're never wrong and she'll never question it. Realising that the reason she lost was because she failed to think outside the box was a huge blow. Yes she lost the contest, but as a result, she learned the lesson Harry failed to learn. Did Harry cheat? Hell yeah, but for the first time, potions actually made sense, which Snape, as a teacher, failed to do in the previous years. Does Hermione have a right to be jealous? Yes. Should the class have benefitted from Snape's book? Possibly, but then they'd be back at square one again.
261*** I find this idea extremely unlikely. It never comes up, and none of the people in charge strike me as the sort to appreciate this kind of thinking.
262*** A chef could not potentially blow everybody up by experimenting with recipes, and if they only have one class to make the potion and weren't told about it in advance, then how could they possibly be realistically expected to make a better potion? Every time the change in ingredients didn't work, they'd have to start over. They may not have enough ingredients and they certainly wouldn't have enough time. That kind of thing might be an okay homework assignment, but not a 'brew a potion in an hour starting now' assignment.
263*** At what point does either Snape or Slughorn tell the students to experiment and figure out the best ways to make potions with their own ideas? All they get is "Here's the instructions. Follow them."
264*** Which is basically opposite to what the Half-Blood Prince did with his book. It's almost like Snape is determined never to be surpassed by his own students.
265** It isn't cheating to use the book, but it ''is'' immoral. As others have said, the class is about the students learning how to make potions; by using a different set of instructions, Harry is theoretically learning better potion making than all the other kids in the class, and this gives Harry an advantage over everyone else in the class. The moral thing would have been for Harry to tell Slughorn about the book so the entire class can learn better ways to make potions; maybe even some of them could learn why certain ingredients make potions better and improve upon the potions themselves. Instead, Harry copies someone else's great ideas and claims that he came up with the ideas himself, which is plagiarism.
266** There might not have been much of a problem with the earlier potions made with the Prince's instructions, but the antidote scene definitely crossed the line. Antidotes aren't made from cut-and-dried recipes; there's a genuine ''law'' they follow, and the "Just shove a bezoar down their throats" line reeks of "This shit ain't worth my time" -- even more uncomfortable when you remember that, according to both Slughorn and Snape, they won't work on everything.
267** Harry using the Prince's book isn't cheating; he's only following a different set of instructions from everyone else. That being said, the points about the class being a learning environment as well as a competitive environment are both quite valid. Why on earth, when faced with a ''better'' way of making potions, would Harry decide to use an inferior method? To give the other students a chance to catch up to him? Why? ''There is no actual benefit for him doing so''. Best case scenario, he would lose the advantage he had over the other students, raise the level of difficulty for everyone else (if Slughorn gave everyone copies of the enhanced book) and find himself with poorer grades than before and lose his reputation as a star potion maker and be seen as a mediocre student. Worst case scenario, he loses the book (highly unlikely, since Slughorn wouldn't be enough of a {{Jerkass}} to take away a chance for his students to get better) and gets expelled for cheating (if, indeed, the teachers would even see it as cheating). Also, the view that the classroom was purely a learning environment was only nominally true, otherwise Hermione's reaction would have been one of her trademark curiosity, begging Harry to let her have a look at the book, rather than jealousy. Expecting Harry to give the book away, or to stop using it, would be like telling a star athlete to reveal a secret, cutting edge training program or stop using it altogether to give his opponents a chance, and since when do you see competitors trying to give their opponents the edge against them? Also, it isn't plagiarism, any more than the other students copying out of ''their'' textbooks was; Harry just managed to find a better set of instructions, luckily for him. There is no such thing as cheating, only thinking outside the box.
268** ''This is definitely cheating''. I might be wrong, but potions is NOT only about following instructions. It's about learning the properties of such and such ingredients and the law of magic to create a desired effect. In 4th year, harry mentions that they have to brood antidotes. In 5th year, harry had to write an essay about the property of whatever-magical-item-of-the-week(I think it was some kind of stone) and harry had a T. In this year, there is an assignment where they take a potion, and use magic to create an antidote. In order to do that, they have to use a spell that allows one to know what are the ingredients, and then to use and apply a complex(at the very least complex enough that harry and ron who are supposed to have been brilliant enough to take this class have absolutely no idea about what it is) magical theory in order to find the right ingredients and the right way to mix them in order to create an antidote from scratch. The goal of this lesson was actually to see if they had understood the magic law of whatever-his-name to use it in practice. That's exactly what Hermione did but harry simply found the answer to this problem written in his book. Really, it would be as if Slughorn had asked them about a complex mathematic problem, and they had to put it into am equation and then solve it, and harry just happens to find the solution at the end of the book. I fail to see how that would not be cheating. It's actually worse when you realize that at the end of the lesson, Harry still has no clue whatsoever about what was the magical property they were using...And this guy wants to be an auror.
269** ''This is definitely NOT cheating.'' Allow me to illustrate why with a personal example. During my college years I always bought my textbooks used whenever possible. Many times these textbooks had notes written in them by previous students. And sure enough, more than one of those notes helped me to understand the material better than some of my classmates and led to me getting higher grades than I might otherwise have gotten. Does that mean I cheated my way through college? OF COURSE NOT. It only means that I found a slightly superior source of information. Just as Harry did. Granted, that one instance where Harry's class was challenged to suss out the answer to a problem and Harry just plucked it right out of the Half-Blood Prince's notes is an iffy situation, but Harry had been taught about the bezoar before that so it's plausible that he ''might'' have come up with that answer on his own. And frankly Slughorn was really the one at fault there. He himself admitted that, strictly speaking, Harry had not answered the question originally posed to the class. But instead he praised Harry for his "sheer cheek" and awarded 10 points to Gryffindor. A more competent teacher would have marked Harry down, or at least not rewarded him just for being a smartass. And even so, that was only one lesson. The other instances where Harry used the [=HBP=] text to get ahead were entirely different. In those cases Harry was essentially just given some helpful advice to brew potions better. It's hardly his fault that the textbook as it was written was full of glaring errors and poor instructions. To say that's cheating would be like saying a person who used a strategy he learned from a friend to help win a video game tournament was also cheating. Again, if anyone is at fault here it's Slughorn for forcing his class to learn from an outdated textbook full of bad advice.
270** Above troper, your example doesn't work. By your own words the notes in your book helped you to understand the material better and that helped you do better. That's not what Harry was doing. Harry doesn't learn anything, the notes in the book simply give him the solutions, not an explanation for why they work. It's pointed out in the book that when it comes to actually understanding the material Harry is completely screwed when the Half-Blood Prince fails to hand him the answers because he hasn't learned anything. He's basically just copy and pasting somebody else's work, which IS cheating. THAT is a big part of why Hermione is mad. If Harry was doing better than her because he managed to do a better job that's one thing (he does it every year in Defense Against the Dark Arts and we never see any resentment) but he's not. He's skipping the entire process and just given the answers. Hermione herself isn't against experimenting with magic, but one needs to understand the magic before you start messing with things.
271** I disagree. Granted, it does seem that Harry is simply copying and pasting someone else's work, but how do we know that the rest of the class isn't doing the same thing? We're never told that the students are required to understand the formula. Only Hermione tries to do the latter, and even she only does it on one occasion (when they were trying to make an antidote following Golpalott's third law). Therefore, I fail to see how Harry is cheating. Yes, he's using a superior book, but that's beside the point.
272** I've read all the arguments and at heart I do think Harry is behaving immorally, though not necessarily cheating. The fact is, Harry wants to be an Auror. [=McGonagall=] states in Order of the Phoenix that Potions is absolutely essential for Aurors, and both she and Tonks do say that Aurors are required to undergo external testing to become an Auror. As someone said above, Harry is not learning anything in this class. On the occasions when he either doesn't have the Prince's book or he's undergoing a test where the book cannot help him, he does terribly. I do think there's more to Potions than simply memorizing formulas, because on many occasions Snape has demanded essays from the kids about the properties of such-and-such, has instructed them to make their own potions now and then, and I think there was one instance when Harry screwed up a potion and Snape forced him to write out an essay explaining where he went wrong and why that was bad. Although we don't see it, it seems likely that Slughorn demands a similar curriculum--but Harry's just using the Prince's work, and never comes up with any of his own ideas. So while he technically may be passing Potions, he doesn't understand them. Were it not for Shacklebolt making Harry an Auror straight off the bat, he would almost certainly not have passed those tests, because he doesn't know the concepts and he wouldn't have the book to help him. Heck, would he have even passed his [=NEWTs=]? He'd have to develop a photographic memory to do so. So, to use a dreadfully clichéd line of my old teachers, the only one he's really cheating is himself.
273** All that and, you know, using untested recipes which he doesn't understand, thus submitting his classmates to potential danger.
274** "Harry! You're cheating! You are, you know, using /some kind of book nobody else read/ to be good in classes, and that's the reason you're good! It's not fair to read books to get knowledge your classmates doesn't! Oh, by the way, and don't you even think to use time machine to be able to be on multiple classes at once, getting points for answers on every, that would be cheating too."
275** When I went to college, we had lessons of advanced mathematics. I was pretty mediocre at it, but not really understanding the ways to get solutions. I've researched on the internet some ways to explain it to me better than the lesson teacher. And indeed I've found some ways (my own HBP textbooks, so to say) to solve some problems faster and correctly (not using the way the teacher had taught us) by thinking about it more logically or memorizing a few things. Was I cheating? No, I only found "superior" (to me at least) way to solve math problems (and they definitely weren't my ideas, I copied ideas of someone on the internet). Was it immoral from me? No, I was even chided by the teacher for not using the "regular/inferior" way when I was solving problems on a blackboard in front of the class. The trick was, that my "cheating" solution skipped some unnecessary steps that the teacher demanded to see. But it was correct nonetheless. In tests, I used the "inferior" way (even though I still didn't quite understand it), just to ensure the teacher wouldn't take points away from me for not using the mainstream way. To the issue of Hermione, I feel that she was just frustrated that following the official way was not the best way and that she was bested by Harry for following HBP tricks and it worked for him. I'm not trying to say that she would have used the HBP textbook, if she got her hands on it. On the contrary, if anything, she would destroy it as soon as she learned that the HBP tips are actually helping her. Had it been her textbook, it would have been burned to ashes long ago, as she wouldn't accept (and internally probably even admit) a nonofficial and not-approved way as better, even if it was better.
276*** Using your analogy, it's not quite the same. You were finding ways to understand the subject matter that worked for you. What Harry had was a book with all the answers already filled in. It would be passing a class because you have every answer already handed to you on a silver platter. You never have to actually study, never need to actually think, you just have the answers right there in the book you found. As to if Hermione had gotten it, it's likely that she would have turned it over, more out of both personal pride (she wants to find the answers herself), and an abundance of caution (, what's to say that some of/all of the stuff in the book is actually not safe to be doing). For all anyone knew, there were things in there that were NOT approved curriculum...oh right, like the Sectumsempra curse.
277** First, the contest was really Slughorn's way to test his students' abilities and understanding of the subject. It was actually a good on his part as this was his first time teaching in about fifteen years. The veritaserum was not a prize to see who could do the best job, but who could actually make the perfect draught. The fact is that Snape only seemed to teach them how to make the potions, not the nature of the ingredients, why they work, and how best to utilize them. This is why Hermione was so good as she was best at making potions but suddenly when being given a potions recipe that was wrong (likely intentionally as it was so dangerous), she couldn't (as well as no one in the class) could improve the recipe as they didn't understand why it was wrong.
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282[[folder:Oh shit! Wizards with science!]]
283* I remember when reading that a character, most likely Horace Slughorn, most likely in the book Half-blood Prince, uses the word "genetic" or some other derivation of "gene". The word was coined at the beginning of the 20th century, and has only become part of colloquial language in the last decade or two; where and how would any non-Muggle-oriented member of the magical world have ever learned it? Since I don't recall the word being ever used otherwise, even though blood purity is a major topic, I'm guessing this is just one that slipped past both Rowling and her editor...
284** There's nothing to indicate wizards wouldn't understand the word "genetics." They do have Muggle Studies classes and branches of the Ministry designed to deal with Muggle relations, after all.
285** I did a text-search of electronic copies of all seven books and turned up zero instances of the words "gene", "genetic", "genetics", or "heredity". Are you sure you weren't remembering a fanfic?
286** What Slughorn says is that Harry's potion skills were "Lily's genes coming out in [him]".
287** Slughorn hid in Muggle homes for quite a while before we meet him in HBP, and IIRC he mentions reading their magazines and such. HBP is set during the mid-90's, right around the height of the OJ Simpson trial which really put DNA into the public consciousness, so even an English wizard would have heard the term somewhere.
288** It's incorrect that basic genetic knowledge only entered into the popular consciousness recently. Since the eugenicists of the 30s and 40s, of which Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were the most famous, it's not been unreasonable that the word "genes" would be used by a wizard as immersed in Muggle culture as Slughorn.
289** The term "gene" goes back more than a century, and Mendel's discoveries about heredity are even older. Slughorn's had plenty of time to learn about these concepts, and he's sufficiently interested in the inheritance of traits to have looked into Muggles' views on the matter.
290** There's nothing to indicate that genetic science isn't true in the Harry Potter universe. In fact, Rowling has even said that wizardry is genetically determined (see [http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_genes here), which would indicate that muggles and wizards alike have DNA. So Slughorn could have known this without having to learn it from Muggle Studies or reading muggle magazines. (This does raise another question, though: if some branches of science work in the magical world in mostly the same was as the muggle world, how would wizards learn them, given the only science studied at Hogwarts is astronomy?)
291** Hogwarts is a high school, you generally study science in college.
292** Highschool starts at 13 or 14, generally, not 11. Hogwarts is a Boarding school.
293** Rowling is ''extremely'' inconsistent here. In HP4, Amos Diggory calls policemen "please-men", like he's never heard of such a thing. Then in HP5, Umbridge--who ought to be even more estranged from Muggle culture--uses "police" as a verb. Guns have existed for fucking centuries, yet a Wizard newspaper thought their readers wouldn't have a clue what that was and clarified in parentheses, "a kind of metal wand Muggles use to kill each other", despite there being a ''Quidditch team'' called the Chudley Cannons. Are you fucking kidding me with this shit?
294** British police do not use guns, so knowing what a police is is not the same as knowing what a gun is. In any case, most newspapers have notes explaining concepts not because they think that the ''totality'' of the readers won't know the meaning of some word but for those readers that do not. Explaining what guns is in a newspaper does not mean that any wizard in existence does not not what it is, it just means that there are '''some''' that don't.
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297
298[[folder:Mass Teleport Trouble]]
299* Side-Along Apparation bugs the crap out of me. A complete ass pull by Rowling so she could have Harry apparate around the country with Dumbledore in book six, despite forgetting the fact that there were many, many instances in the first five books where such an apparation technique would have been useful. We see parents struggling to get their kids to King's Cross in time for the train at the start of each book, travelling in magically remade cars, hurrying, etc. when they could have simply side-along apparated their children there in seconds. How about in book four, when at the beginning, we meet Diggory and his father, who say they had to get up at 2am to manage the walk to the Portkey as Cedric hadn't passed his test yet. Or for that matter, the fact that Harry and the rest had to walk there too; why not side along apparate them to the Portkey at the same time Percy and the others apparate? Or in book five, when they needed the Knight bus to get them safely back to Hogwarts after Christmas? A side along apparation would have sorted that out nice and quickly. There are many more, but the most obvious moment that the sudden invention of side along apparation later in the books renders stupid is when Voldemort attacks Harry's parents and kills them. James goes to head him off, telling Lily to "run" and escape with Harry. Seemingly both forgot they could have picked Harry up and side along apparated away. Stupid plot point, created because the author wanted something cool sounding for a later book without thinking the logic through. To make matters even worse, if she had not created the side along thing, and just had Dumbledore apparate Harry around, no one would have minded, as Dumbledore is a very talented and powerful wizard, so if he can apparate someone around with him, it is at least a wilful suspension of disbelief.
300** First of all, forgive my memory, but I thought it was handwaved with the fact that only significantly powerful wizards could side-along apparate. And even then, they couldn't do it more than once in quick succession without suffering headaches or other ill effects, which isn't safe to combine with apparation. This covers the Weasleys, as there aren't enough people to side along apparate and it's probably not safe to do with so many people apparating into the event either (overlapping people might be cause for splinching). This theory would also explain the King's Cross instance for why there's no side-along apparation. The reason for James and Lily not side-along apparating was solved in book 7 when it's mentioned that they didn't have their wands with them when Voldemort attacked. It was late in the evening and the house was supposed to be perfectly safe, so it's somewhat understandable but really unprepared of them.
301** It seems unlikely it is only something powerful wizards can do, since during book six, signs were put up in Hogsmeade that said basically "If a Dementor or Death Eater attacks, grab your kids and side-along apparate them out of there"; if the method is being given in general advice to the populace, you would think that it is something anyone can do relatively easily. As for the James and Lily not having their wands when attacked? Fine, though since the whole "not having their wands" thing isn't mentioned until a book later, you are left wondering why they didn't use it when it is first brought up, and yes, while I am sure there are possibilities of splinching and such, very few apparations themselves have that happen so long as the person doing it is somewhat competent, so the parents of the kids should have no real problem of possibly splinching their kids when they do it. The main problem I have with it all, is that it is a method created purely for the reason so Dumbledore could apparate Harry around in book six, without the author giving a moment's thought to all the incidents in the previous books that became retroactively stupid because the characters put a lot of effort into situations where a simple side-along apparation would work.
302** Side-along apparation has the same problems that apparation does (splinching, ending up in the wrong place, etc). It seems to me that it would be a bit risky to do something like that to get kids to a train station, especially if the parents were stressed (look at what happened to Ron in the final book, and now imagine that happening with an eleven year old). Same with the World Cup. It was really early, everyone was tired, and if they did a big Side-Along apparation, there probably would have been the good chance that the apparators would have screwed up somehow and left a bit of family member behind. There's also the point that Muggleborns wouldn't be able to do this, as their parents could not do magic.
303** The point, though, is more along the lines that side-along apparation was nothing more than an AssPull by Rowling in the sixth book that she thought sounded cool and was a way to have Harry zip around the country with Dumbledore, without realising, or simply not caring, that it retroactively made many moments in the previous books seem stupid when the characters didn't even contemplate the idea of side-along apparation as an alternative to what they were doing, even if they eventually dismissed it in that situation for the reasons you state.
304** Keep in mind that ''none'' of the students in Harry's year had ever been taken on Side-Along Apparition, given their reaction when Ron tells them about it (they all flock around him and ask what it was like). So Side-Along is probably very rare and very risky to do, and probably only really powerful wizards (like Dumbledore) ''could'' do it safely. The fact that the Ministry pamphlets tell parents to Side-Along their children doesn't do anything to undermine this, because Side-Along is here presented as an alternative to ''certain death'' -- yes, it's a risk, but a considerably smaller risk than facing Death Eaters.
305** Perhaps characters ''did'' consider Side-Along, but dismissed it off-page. These things were planned well in advance of Harry arriving on the scene, so it's possible he (and, by extension, the readers) missed the planning stage altogether. Or, perhaps the idea simply never occurred to the characters making the plans for reasons they considered obvious. For example, it wouldn't be prudent to suddenly appear out of thin air, with an accompanying attention-attracting ''pop!'' in a station full of Muggles, as King's Cross was. It would probably unnecessarily risk violating the Statute of Secrecy (I'm aware that Hermione Apparated the Trio into Muggle London, but theirs was an emergency situation.) Also, I recall Moody mentioning in[=DH=]that they didn't want to use Side-Along Apparation to move Harry because the Ministry is somehow connected with it (I assume a regulatory board or something). In [=OotP=], the Order knows that Voldy has Ministry spies, and that these spies may be in the transportation department. So again, it's an example of "why risk it when a safer alternative is available?"
306** Did anyone else think that it was, y'know, illegal to Side-Apparate because of being under 17 years old and everything? I mean, Dumbledore tells in [=OotP=] that the Ministry actually has no power to expel students from the school (giving warnings/advice/what have you doesn't count). I doubt its general knowledge how the Trace works (Molly doesn't seem to know), and anyway, you're still Apparating, which is completely illegal. That was just the Ministry giving an alternative to that underage = no magic bull rap.
307** I would postulate that major events like the landing area for the Quidditch World Cup on the way to registration, and possibly the campsite itself, are covered with an anti-apparating/disapparating charm to prevent mass trouble if 30 groups tried to come at ones. The portkeys allowed for systematic entry to the cup so those Ministry individuals involved could keep control of things. The same magic charm could have been put on the house in Godric's Hollow so the person who enters must come through the door. This would ensure if something went wrong and Peter was captured and tortured, the enemy had only one way to get into the house.
308** For getting to the train station, bear in mind that Arthur has great respect for Muggles and he works for the Ministry. So of course he's going to want to take the utmost precaution to make sure magic doesn't get exposed. Most of the scenarios mentioned involve transporting the children to places where there are Muggles around. King's Cross is always crowded so popping out of thin air with seven children isn't such a smart idea - especially when walking is easier. The World Cup is again on a Muggle campsite and it's organised by the Ministry, so there's bound to be plenty of precautions to prevent exposure. Presumably Side-Along is an ''option'' like for Luna and her father who were by themselves. But Arthur must have felt it safer to get a Portkey rather than the hassle of getting six children people to Side-Along with.
309*** This bugs me even more. So appearing with your family out of thin air is something muggles might notice... but at the same time, muggles won't notice you walking through/disappearing to the wall to get to platform 9 and 3/4; or notice your car and the passengers becoming invisible; or won't notice a triple-decker bus going at high speed through London, abusing many laws of physics. Rowling and fans seem to be handwaving a lot. Sometimes the rules of Potter-verse are like this, until occasions don't suit the situation, so then the rules are different and there are exceptions.
310** Maybe Side-Along Apparition was a new Apparition technique that had only recently been innovated? Maybe it wasn't around during the first few books.
311** And maybe trying to Apparate with five or six kids, their pets, their broomsticks, their school supplies ''and'' their luggage in tow, popping back and forth over and over, would be a far worse hassle than driving to a train station one time by car.
312[[/folder]]
313
314[[folder:So... what about the Malfoys' Chamber of Secrets?]]
315* There's something I never understood: in book two, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Harry and Ron use a polyjuice potion to gain Malfoy's trust. They learn that Malfoy's not Slytherin's heir, but what they DO learn is that there is a secret "chamber" in the Malfoys' drawing room full of Dark objects... Ron says he's going to write to his dad and tell Mr. Weasley about the Malfoys' chamber... but apparently he never does, because in book six, the Malfoys STILL haven't been caught... even that forgetfulness is permissible, except... why didn't Harry tell Mr. Weasley about the chamber in book six, when he pulls him aside to 'tip him off' after Harry and co. follow Malfoy to Borgin and Burke's and suspect something's up?
316** The problem is, unfortunately, the timing. He'd just been raided, so calling in another raid would have been hard to pull when they'd turned up nothing the first time. It'd count as harassment as well if Mr. Weasley kept calling them. Also, just because they know there's a chamber under the drawing room floor doesn't mean they know how to get into it. It might have a password or be under various wards that make it impossible to open unless Mr. Malfoy wants it to be opened (and he could claim no knowledge and say it was his father's and doesn't know the password). Then there's always the case where [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney it was found, and money exchanged hands, and Fudge "forgot" about it and the evidence was mysteriously lost]]. I honestly would have been more surprised if anything came from it myself.
317** Didn't Malfoy figure out the ruse shortly after Harry and Ron left? I mean, a simple conversation with Crabbe and Goyle would resolve that: Malfoy: "Why were you acting so weird when I was talking to you?" Goyle: "Uh... we were shoved in a broom closet for the last hour." Then Malfoy has to just send an owl to his dad's house and they can move the artefacts before Weasley gets there.
318** Uh, I think that those artefacts '''WERE''' recovered. After all, the final chapter of the book mentions that Lucius had been sacked from his position as School Governor. Perhaps the second raid was the reason, and Malfoy bought his way out of prison time?
319** I thought that he was fired because half the board claimed he'd threatened to curse their families (which was really stupid to do openly) if they didn't fire Dumbledore. That was the only thing that could even remotely be proven, since he couldn't be linked to the Chamber. If Ron's tip had panned out, it probably would have been mentioned. Besides, even if wizards can do a second raid so soon after not finding anything based on nothing more than 'My twelve-year-old son claims to have knowledge of the inner workings of your house', would they really be able to do that with wizards like the Malfoys who have Fudge in their pockets? One raid is one thing, but repeated raids wouldn't be stood for.
320** Oh, that would have been an interesting letter if Ron had done so! "Hey dad, I learned Malfoys have a hidden chamber under their drawing room. Sincerely, Ron" There probably would have been a letter in reply saying, "Dear Ron, How did you discover this?" and that would mean admitting to using Polyjuice Potion, and we know that's illegal. It could have gotten Ron (and maybe Harry) into serious trouble.
321** Ron just could have said then "I overheard Malfoy brag about it." [[MetaphoricallyTrue Which he did]].
322[[/folder]]
323
324[[folder:Burn, Burrow, Burn! Wicked inferno!]]
325* Why did everybody just stand there and watch the Burrow burn down? They're wizards! They can at least ''try'' to put it out!
326** They're also people. Who just got terrorized and their family home burnt down. With them powerless to stop it. Sorry they're ''not'' in combat mode right away, considering this attack on the Weasley house is a huge personal and familial blow, especially to Molly and Arthur.
327** "Combat mode" would be if they'd actually tried to protect their home and repel the invaders. Putting out fire is damage control, something that should not be impeded ''by the damage itself''.
328** It is entirely possible that Bellatrix used Fiendfyre, at which point nobody there is going to have a spell that can extinguish it.
329** And did you miss the part where Lupin and Tonks are trying to hold back the ring of fire with their magic, but it's overpowering them? It's not normal fire, meaning that those shocked and sad looks are about them realising that they have to watch their home burn and nothing can be done about it.
330[[/folder]]
331
332[[folder:Slug Club Oddities: Ron]]
333* Why was Ginny a member of the Slug Club and not Ron? Ron obviously wanted in, and he is not a complete imbecile, so it wouldn't be entirely accurate to say he wasn't qualified.
334** Slughorn didn't think much of him and [[AccidentalMisnaming constantly got his name wrong]]. Ginny was invited to join the Slug Club after Slughorn saw her doing the Bat-Bogey Hex on Zacharias Smith. The point is Ron may not be a total idiot, but that's HiddenDepths and Slughorn never looked beneath the surface.
335** The idea behind the Slug Club is that it allows Slughorn to make contact with students he thinks will be important and influential in the future, either because of their magical power (like Ginny, demonstrated with her Bat-Bogey Hex), their intellect (Hermione), their familial ties (Marcus Belby, who ends up not being invited because he is not in contact with his famous relative) or, simply, because they are already famous (Harry). The Club allows him and them to make contacts, and Slughorn uses those contacts to get simple things and act as a behind-the-curtains advisor. Slughorn tried to get James and Sirius into the Club, because he knew the two of them were very popular and intelligent, but neither attended his parties because he snubbed Remus. Slughorn does not invite Ron because he does not see in him any of the characteristics that would make him "interesting" enough to have in his club.
336** And let's not forget the Weasleys' reputation among the wizarding world. Slughorn is a nice guy, but he is a bit superficial, so he may have looked down on the Weasley family for whatever reason. He only invites Ginny after seeing her magic in action, and it's possible he doesn't even know she's a Weasley.
337[[/folder]]
338
339[[folder:I'm sure they can figure it out themselves...]]
340* Although Dumbledore couldn't make it ''too'' easy for them to track down the Horcruxes, d'you realize he never even gave ''any'' of them that book that shows how to destroy them? I know, I know, he probably knew Hermione might think to ''Accio'' them and he made it easy to for them to be stolen from his office, but there was always the possibility that she might ''not'' have thought of it (and, neither Harry nor Ron did), wasn't there? Without that book, they were pretty much screwed.
341** Hermione's deductive reasoning skills are pretty good. If they realized, for example, that Slytherin's locket was a Horcrux, and remembered that, against all odds, the fucker wouldn't open and they couldn't break it, she might assume that it required some magical way of destroying it, as with the diary. Dumbledore gave them all they needed, it's just that he left a couple of extra clues, just in case it came up. Besides, if Hermione hadn't found the books, Dumbledore's portrait might have just told Snape to mail her the things or something.
342** Personally, I think that, while Dumbledore had made preparations for his death, he hadn't been planning on dying that exact night. I imagine his original plan was to go with Harry back to his office and he would have demonstrated right then and there how to use the sword to break the Horcrux. Unfortunately, the Death Eaters showed up, along with Snape, and there was no way to get out of it in his weakened state without blowing Snape's cover. Ultimately, he had to hope that Harry and his friends would be resourceful enough to compensate for being underequipped.
343* Why didn't Dumbledore just tell Harry why he needed the memory from Slughorn? Dumbledore was supposed to be telling Harry "everything I know or suspect," so why the mysterious, "You must trust me" about the Horcruxes? If Dumbledore had just said, "Horcruxes are magical objects that make you invincible, Voldemort certainly made one, and I think something in that conversation with Slughorn holds the key to defeating him," Harry would have made a much higher priority of getting the memory.
344** Dumbledore is teaching Harry to prioritize the Horcruxes in preparation for his death, as well as problem-solving skills.
345** This one is, in my opinion, handled better in the movie. When we see the key memory, its gets all fuzzy ''just'' when young Riddle starts pronouncing the word "Horcrux". So it's reasonable that Dumbledore doesn't even know for sure that Horcruxes are what the memory's about.
346** I was more annoyed at the fact that absolutely nothing useful was obtained from that memory. So, Riddle knew a bit about Horcruxes. This isn't even evidence that he made one (unlike, you know, TWO HAVING BEEN IDENTIFIED AND DESTROYED). This incredibly critical memory that we are lost without gave absolutely no information that wasn't already known.
347** How can you say so, when the memory so very explicitly pointed to Riddle's overwhelming fascination with the number seven, which in turn ''obviously'' meant that he made (or intended to make) exactly seven Horcruxes.
348*** He made seven on accident; he intended to make six, so his soul would be in seven pieces, with one in his body.
349** Dumbledore would give Encyclopedia Brown a run for his money in this movie.
350[[/folder]]
351
352[[folder:Broken nose]]
353* Something a bit more mundane: When Harry tells Ron about getting his nose broken, it is said that Ron not laughing was a 'mark of strength of their' friendship. Am I the only one that doesn't see why that is a mark of strength?
354** It puzzled me too, because you would think the closer you get with a person the more you're allowed to laugh at them and get away with it. My guess is that the strength was that Ron understood this was SeriousBusiness to Harry, and reacted accordingly.
355** It's probably more that Harry would have understood if Ron had laughed, given that he thought it might have sounded amusing ("So then Malfoy sees my shoe, knocks me stiff, and then steps on my face.") but Ron instantly took it as seriously as Harry did.
356** Harry had just seen Malfoy recounting the incident to his fellow Slytherins, who are all laughing about it. It helps Harry tremendously that his best friend doesn't laugh at him, even though he might be tempted to.
357** It always got me as to why Draco did nothing else but stomp on his nose. Wouldn't ''you'' steal Harry's invisibility cloak? it would provide him with so many ridiculous advantages in his effort to invade Hogwarts. How would Harry prove it? or explain to a teacher as to why he was using it to spy on Draco's private business? if Draco hid it in the very back of the Room of Requirement good luck getting that back considering that (although no one knows this yet) you can't accio a Hallow. It’s not as if the plan to send Harry back to Kings Cross underneath it would have worked for more than a day anyway considering he is one Floo Powder/Knight Bus journey back to Hogsmeade. And why Harry's nose anyway? to put this as politely as possible another [[GroinAttack form of attack]] would be far more personal, far more painful and would show no visible evidence that Harry could show to a teacher. Strikes of the IdiotBall to me.
358** Malfoy wasn't thinking straight, as he had just found Potter spying on him in an area where he had been dropping hints that Voldemort had a special mission for him. His first instinct (other than causing Potter pain) was to dispose of him without getting in trouble himself. He left the Cloak on Harry in hopes that Harry wouldn't be able to return to Hogwarts from where ever the train goes. He failed to remember that A) the train has to be cleaned/restocked after it is used, B) there is at least one employee (the snack lady) on the train when it is in use, C) Harry could easily catch a Portkey/Side-Along Apparation/Broom/flying car to Hogwarts after he is found and explain the situation upon arrival.
359** Harry always had Dumbledore's favour, intentionally or not, and it would it would take one word (assuming Dumbledore's wasn't keeping an eye on Harry) before Dumbledore to demand the Cloak back. Draco has enough to worry about without drawing Dumbledore's attention. Beating Harry up stays between them due as a schoolyard brawl. Theft of a valuable magical device that has saved Harry's life will not be ignored.
360[[/folder]]
361
362[[folder:Harry the Dumb Detective]]
363* Harry's "investigation" of Malfoy's plot, or specifically the stubborn and unimaginative way he's following up on one obviously wrong approach. He knows already that Malfoy is trying to fix something, so it's a pretty safe assumption that he turned the Room of Requirements into a workshop. So instead of making up the umpteenth variant of become-what-you-became-for-Draco, which clearly DOESN'T WORK, why not try to deduce Malfoy's request and repeat it? "I need a place to work on some complex magical device in absolute secrecy/hide something precious and dangerous"... hi, Draco, mind if I drop in? Stalin's moustache, professor Trelawney managed to do it!
364** IdiotBall aside, Trelawney managed to do it because she was looking for a place to hide her sherry bottles, which means that it's even worse. Draco only asked for a place to hide what he was doing from others.
365** My point exactly. How hard was it to guess something like that?
366** There is a "knack" to using the room, someone mentioned that while talking about Neville in Book 7. This isn't precluding Harry being in possession of the IdiotBall, but does at least account for the oddities of the room somewhat.
367** Even worse, all he needs to prove Malfoy guilty is to confirm that he had the Dark Mark. Well, ambush the weasel under the cloak, stun him, and roll up his sleeve. Done. Everybody goes home/to Azkaban.
368** Now, this part isn't necessarily going to work. Voldemort might not have marked Draco because he's doing an undercover operation. You don't send in a new spy in a delicate location with your mark.
369** Well, he did show ''something'' to Mr. Burge in the shop and anyway, it's not about him having the mark or not - it's about Harry not bothering to check.
370** How would he get out of trouble if he falsely accused a student of being a Death Eater and carrying the Dark Mark? I think even Harry had some doubts about what exactly Draco showed Mr. Burge enough that he didn't want to be thought as a raving attention seeker again.
371** That's exactly the reason for the prudent omission of the "accuse" part in the purposed plan and its replacement with "ambush the weasel while under the cloak, stun him, and roll up his sleeve". Even if Harry got caught, what's the worst he could get - a detention? Yeah, right, like that's supposed to scare him. Oh, and let's not forget that as far as Voldemort cared, Draco's mission wasn't "undercover" as much as "suicide". Marking him and increasing his chances of failure would fit in perfectly.
372** Even if he exposed Malfoy's Dark Mark, could Harry necessarily prove it's the genuine article? Most people don't have scars with Spidey-sense that indicate when a legitimate Dark Mark is nearby. Draco could claim it's a mundane tattoo he got because it looks badass; he's never made his anti-Muggleborn politics a secret, but those beliefs don't prove he's a spy. Not every real-life jerkwad with a swastika tattoo was a member of the Gestapo, either.
373** Yep, because there is no way high-profile wizards could distinguish a mundane tattoo from a Beast Mark-equivalent inflicted by the Dark Wizard they've spent years hunting for. And because the wizard court was so renowned for its impeccable commitment to justice and its absolute abhorrence to the idea of convicting an innocent - Sirius testifies for that last one - and thus would readily dismiss a son of a known convicted Death Eater bearing the mark of a Death Eater in time of war with Death Eaters as a mere coincidence and boyish recklessness.
374** I wish to point out that Sirius WAS framed, rather thoroughly.
375** Seconded. And even if for some stupid reason they couldn't tell if it was an actual mark, there is enough precedence in the modern world about these things that when you are dealing with this, you don't [[PercisionFStrike Fucking]] CARE about whether it is an actual mark or not, because you are guilty until proven innocent.
376** Is the fact that Death Eaters have the Mark widely known? Sirius didn't know it in the fourth book; he had no idea what Karkaroff was showing Snape. Of course, it seems that every time Harry learns something, it becomes common knowledge, and it's possible that Sirius just didn't know it because he didn't work in that line, but it might be a secret. It still looks bad that Draco has the Dark Mark tattooed on his arm, but they might not have any reason to check whether or not it could be magical.
377** Even if it is not, the fact the Dark Mark is the[=DE=]mascot ''is'' - they summon it every time they kill someone.
378** The final confrontation with Dumbledore on the matter. "Professor, Malfoy was acting highly suspiciously the whole year, his little talks with Snape ''strongly'' imply that he's an enemy agent, he nearly used '''a Cruciatus spell''' on me, and now he's jubilant after completing whatever he was working on so hard. What're we going to do?" "We're going after the Horcrux right now because... well, because and leave Malfoy to his devices, for I have the situation fully under my control." Hold the phone. An undercover[=DE=]in the school, concocting something sinister right under Dumbledore's nose... why does it sound familiar? Oh, yes, that's '''exactly''' what happened in the fourth book! And we all know how perfectly fine it worked out that time. Are you seriously telling me that Harry could forget that or failed to make a connection?
379** The best part is that Dumbledore pretty much knew from the beginning what Draco's mission was. He knew the end result was to kill him at least and had planned for it. He did have Order members stationed at Hogwarts and Harry had given his friends and remaining members of the DA that showed up the remains of the luck potion. If nothing else, his friends would be safe until he returned, he thought. However, it ended up being a wild goose chase and an ultimately pointless mission, but Dumbledore wanted to die anyway.
380** Ooookey, and how does all that accounts for Harry not putting two and two together and not calling the old intriguer out on it?
381** I reread the instance in the book. Harry actually questions Dumbledore on his leaving while who knows what Draco is doing occurs and Dumbledore asks him if he hasn't left the school prior to this occasion without precautions. Dumbledore is very vague on these precautions, and Harry simply assumes that he's got the situation in hand. Plus, he's distracted by the prospect of actually doing something by finding one of Voldemort's Horcruxes -- in his mind, a way of actually doing something for the war effort.
382** So did I. The point is not that Harry doesn't question Dumbledore - it's that he misses a perfect argument that would've shut the old control freak up and pressed him to the wall, that is, Cedric Diggory's take on the conjectural complete safety and control maintained by Dumbledore, which he could've given if he hadn't been killed precisely ''because'' of a spy that Dumbledore allowed to prance around the school for a whole year. I agree, however with the notion of the Horcrux distraction, and moreover, I got an impression that Dumbledore ''used'' it to get the boy off a tangent that would've otherwise let to some very awkward questions. Still, I sense a strong reek of PlotInducedStupidity coming from Harry.
383** Dumbledore didn't LET Crouch Jr. waltz around campus, he legitimately didn't KNOW who the mole was until Crouch tried to square the circle by knocking off Harry. That is not the case here, and whereas Crouch was a veteran cohort of Voldemort's who was entirely committed to the cause and could not be redeemed, Draco is an inexperienced, scared teen way in over his head. It's not a GREAT plan, but Dumbledore has reason to believe that he can keep a hold of the damage. And he was not entirely wrong.
384** Whether he knew or not, an enemy spy operated under his nose for a year and caused a catastrophe. So his assurances of total control over the situation are invalid. And he had no reasons to believe anything like that since, I'll reiterate, '''TWO PEOPLE NEARLY FUCKING DIED ALREADY''', saved only by luck and without ANY intervention from D or Snape.
385** Dumbledore thought he had it taken care of: He ordered Snape to watch over Draco and assumed he would interfere if things got really nasty. Obviously, the books show that Dumbledore was putting too much faith in Snape, but the other characters called him out on that all the time, so at least it was addressed.
386** Snape had already failed to prevent the previous two assassination attempts, and two people nearly got it. What makes Dumbledore think that the third time would be any different except for that "saved in the last moment by Harry Potter" part, since Harry wouldn't be there?
387** Because Dumbledore had faith in Snape. Probably too much faith. The other characters ''repeatedly called Dumbledore out over it.''
388** This has nothing to do with faith. Snape was loyal to D, no argument here, but he simply couldn't possibly tail Draco 24/7 and the two previous assassination attempts proved it (not that it was not painfully obvious to any sane person in the first place).
389** Agreeing that it wouldn't be possible for Snape to tail Draco all the time, and when it comes to the near-deaths of others, Dumbledore was never the one curing them of their situation; the other faculty in the school are more than able to handle anything that isn't ACTUALLY death, they have the skills to deal with that potential problem. When it comes to what Draco actually did, I don't know that they realized the extent of that plan or didn't anticipate Draco's creativity/intelligence in that area. Additionally, I don't think we're ever given information that suggests Snape knows where the Room of Requirement is or how to get into it. It's perfectly possible that he did, especially after Umbridge's year, but it's also possible that he simply couldn't do anything about Draco when Draco was in that room.
390** As for Harry's IdiotBall behaviour on this topic, I think people ARE underestimating the amount of emotional/psychological control Dumbledore has over Harry. Yes, Harry is defiant toward other authority figures, but the only time we see him react this way to Dumbledore is after Sirius's death. Aside from that, he's been trained up from the start to follow Dumbledore's instructions without question, and Dumbledore has very skilfully shaped that relationship so that Harry will not question what he's doing. In Harry's mind, Dumbledore is always right, and he will fight for Dumbledore more readily than anyone else because he's Dumbledore's man "through and through", etc. Dumbledore supports this because his plans for Harry have always been put forth by subtle manipulations. On top of which, while people suggest Dumbledore maybe didn't know the attack would happen THAT NIGHT, it seems more likely that he DID suspect it would be this night that the attack would happen. Him knowing makes more sense than otherwise, because otherwise the potion he drank could easily have killed him before either Snape or Draco could confront him, leading to Draco's punishment by Voldemort and Snape's punishment by the Unbreakable Vow. Harry follows Dumbledore without question and Dumbledore uses this to orchestrate his own death in such a way that Draco finally understands that he's not capable of being a 'true' Death Eater (or something to that effect?) and so that Snape can kill Dumbledore, stay alive, and have his cover cemented in the eyes of Voldemort. There are uncountable ways this plan could have gone wrong and spectacularly backfired, of course, but Dumbledore takes those risks in spite of the odds more than once through the series - most notably in the 'hunch' that Harry is a horcrux and must die in order to kill Voldemort. He did not know for certain, but he sent Harry to his death anyway. That's no different than what happens here, and Harry follows blindly here as well because he believes that Dumbledore knows everything.
391*** "killed him before either Snape or Draco could confront him, leading to Draco's punishment by Voldemort and Snape's punishment by the Unbreakable Vow" - was it really an option though? What did Voldy actually want more - Dumbledore dead or nobody but Draco be the culprit? While there would obviously be no reason to reward Draco in such a case, actually proceeding with his ''punishment'' when Dumbles is effectively dead seems OOC even for a crazy schmuck Voldy is. It's like suggesting that Voldy should have punished Snape for killing Dumbledore instead of Draco. And would Unbreakable Vow have been broken just because Dumbledore had died before Draco made his move, through no fault of Severus at all?
392** I'd hardly say that Harry was trained to obey Dumbledore without question. Just because Harry trusts him, it doesn't mean that Harry's some kind of mindless minion. Also, Dumbledore's 'hunch' about Harry was backed up with a lot of proof and Dumbledore did realize that it was possible for Harry to survive.
393** I think Dumbledore did believe he had in under control. He probably didn't put Snape on Malfoy watch until after Katie Bell was attacked. And DD might have known about the bottle of poisoned wine all along and was just waiting for Slughorn to give it to him so he could dispose of it. It is rather random that a student would drink an old and therefore strong love potion, that student's friend would decide to go to Proffessor Slughorn for a cure and then they'd all decide to have a glass of wine (that Slughorn had been spelled into wanting to give to DD) after to celebrate. What are the odds?
394** Yes he did put Snape on watch before that - they'd been dicussing the whole deal while Sev was healing his arm, i.e. before the school year began. Slughorn was never "spelled" into wanting anything, and why in the bloody rainbow hell would DD wait for something like that?
395[[/folder]]
396
397[[folder:Squire circa what now?]]
398* Okay, Brits should probably know this one: what exactly ''is'' the cultural significance of a squire circa 1925?
399** By the 1900s (and possibly as early as the 1700s) 'Squire' was a completely informal term that simply means 'the richest man in town'.
400** My mother defined 'squire' as someone who owns quite a lot of land.
401** It, or at least a word derived from it, is often used to refer to the Gentry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire
402** Generally, a squire would be the largest, or even the sole, landowner, in a village (the Riddles seem to be the latter: the Gaunts' cottage is the only patch of land in the area that they don't own). Sometimes, they could be rather richer. Take ''Literature.PrideAndPrejudice'', for example: Mr. Bennet would definitely be classed as a squire, but he only appears to own the village of Longbourn and the farms associated with it. Mr. Darcy, on the other hand, appears to own much more land, but would also be classed as a squire, as he has no peerage (although he is just about rich enough to qualify for one if he plays his cards politically). In the past, squires had a huge amount of sway - as well as being the biggest landowner, they would frequently be the local magistrate, and appoint the local parish priest. While these privileges were already dying out by the 1920s and 1930s, they were still stronger than they are today - and the squire's son running off with the ugly girl from the poorest cottage in the area would still have been a major local scandal. Even today, a few eyebrows would be raised.
403[[/folder]]
404
405[[folder:More griping over Voldemort's cave...]]
406* The potion can't be penetrated by hand, ok. But a cup can penetrate it, which Dumbledore did in order to drink it. But why didn't he then just simply scoop up the locket at the bottom of the basin using the cup?
407** Either the locket wouldn't fit in the cup, or more likely the cup couldn't reach the bottom of the basin where the locket was. He did drink quite a lot of it before they could reach the locket.
408** Make a bigger cup?
409** It was an enchanted cup, basin, and locket. There was assuredly some counter to prevent someone from just side-stepping the entire trap.
410** The cup was created by Dumbledore. As for counters, if Voldemort put ''any'' real thought into designing the cave, he'd have installed an alarm.
411** It's magic. Maybe you can't penetrate the surface of the liquid if you're going for the locket, but you can if you're going for the potion.
412** It's common sense. Make a cup big enough to scoop ''all'' the potion in one draw.
413** As Dumbledore says when examining the potion, "This potion cannot be penetrated by hand, Vanished, parted, scooped up, or siphoned away, nor can it be Transfigured, Charmed, or otherwise made to change its nature. I can only conclude that this potion is supposed to be drunk." It can be inferred that simply drawing the entire potion out and dumping it would make it reappear in the basin. And even if you could scoop all the way to the bottom, the locket was probably charmed to stay there unless the entire potion had been drunk.
414
415[[/folder]]
416
417[[folder:Lethal Poison]]
418
419* Speaking of which, [[WhyDontYaJustShootHim why didn't Voldemort simply make the potion kill whoever drank it]]? That way, nobody who discovered the cave could get the Horcrux out without killing themselves. It's unlikely that Voldemort would have had to drink the potion in the first place to get the locket out, since he was willing to visit the cave alone in [[Literature/HarryPotterAndTheDeathlyHallows Book 7]] to see if the Horcrux was missing. He was perfectly willing to kill whoever drank the potion anyways, since he was going to have them killed by the [[OurZombiesAreDifferent Inferi]] in the lake, and if he wanted to kill anyone else who might have come along on the boat, he could have enchanted the Inferi to attack anyone who sailed across the lake with the Horcrux, except himself, of course. This would also have the advantage of protecting the Horcrux even more, since I doubt even Dumbledore would have leapt into a lake full of Inferi to grab the Horcrux.
420** Addressed in book by Dumbledore. I don't recall the exact wording but effectively 'Voldemort would not want to kill whoever came to this island, he would want to know who it was who had discerned its location, fooled his barriers, and managed to get so close to stealing it. Presumably without a second person foolish enough to break the water's surface the poisoned would just lie there in agony until Voldemort came to check on his Horcrux. Also, potentially when he was pre-resurrection Voldemort might have checked up on his Horcruxes more often, but after getting resurrected he forgot about it because his soul and body were now so ravaged he had lost almost all tactically or strategic thought.
421** Repeat after me: just because DD says something doesn't mean it's true or makes the tiniest bit of sense for that matter. What does it matter how the intruders got there ([[Film/YourHighness with magic, motherfucker!]]) if they cannot reach the locket? "he had lost almost all tactical or strategic thought" - no. His plan to lure Harry to the Ministry in [=OotP=] was brilliant (not his fault Lucius fucked it up), and his decision to stay behind the scenes in[=DH=]and to use the Taboo showed quite an insight.
422** The fact is, despite what Dumbledore said, Voldemort WAS trying to kill whoever made it to the island, since the MindRape potion made whoever drank it need to take a drink from the lake, (as seen in DH, when we hear about Regulus and Kreacher's experience with the cave) which was full of [[OurZombiesAreDifferent Inferi]] that would immediately swarm the island and pull the drinker down under, which is fatal. If anything, making the potion fatal would be better for gaining any information, since it would avoid the problem of having to sort through countless Inferi to find the body, instead of seeing the body on the island itself and knowing who had broken in. Of course, either way, dead men tell no tales, so Voldemort couldn't have gotten the information from the person post-mortem anyways.
423** The Inferi may have been a backup defence, which would attack ''only'' if multiple intruders penetrated the cave. A single trespasser would be incapacitated by the poison, and left alive for interrogation; only one who'd brought a companion, who did not drink and remained mobile enough to potentially threaten the Horcrux, would incite a lethal assault rather than a capture.
424** Sorry, doesn't work. The Inferi aren't "lethal" - they are shit and can be repelled by fire, something a ''firstgrader'' can conjure up. If DD used another person as a drinker, they would've done fuck all. Next, they only stirred up once Harry touched the water. If he'd ignored DD's pleads, they would've done even fuck aller. And the poison didn't incapacitate either - both Kreacher and Regulus had enough strength to crawl to the lake shore and drink from it by themselves. This also kills the whole “leave alive for interrogation” idea.
425** The Inferi ''did'' work for the purpose of ''neutralize the second person'' because, as we saw, Harry ''failed'' to destroy them - they only got out of it because Dumbledore was strong enough to be under the potion's effect and ''still'' be strong enough to conjure fire, something that most thieves would not have been able to do. Similarly, the only reason Regulus and Kreacher weren't completely screwed is that Kreacher, as a house-elf, could dodge the Anti-Apparition wards. In a "normal scenario", the trap works perfectly well. One wizard: makes it halfway through the potion, can't motivate themselves to finish it, languishes uselessly, doesn't have anyone to bring them water, and Voldemort captures them for interrogation. One adult wizard and one "weaker" being (the maximum that can cross via the ferry): either the adult drinks, the "weaker" helps them finish, and then the Inferi dispose of the helper; or the "weaker" drinks, the adult helps them finish, and then the Inferi attack. The adult would destroy the Inferi with fire and take the locket, but remember, Voldemort doesn't realize how disconnected he is from the Horcruxes, so he thinks the Horcrux itself will alert him to the danger. Therefore, the adult escapes the the Inferi, but''then'' Voldemort shows up, interrogates the thief, and kills them. Regulus succeeded because Voldemort didn't plan for house-elf magic, and because Voldemort was ''wrong'' to think that he could still communicate with the rest of his soul - which, considering how hard it was for anyone to learn about Horcuxes in the first place, and considering Voldemort used them in ways that no other wizard had before, isn't an unforgivable mistake to make. Meanwhile, Harry and Dumbledore would have failed if the adult had been literally anyone who wasn't Dumbledore.
426*** "he thinks the Horcrux itself will alert him to the danger" - No, he doesn't, he only assumes that he would feel if a horcrux is ''destroyed'', which is stupid by itself because nothing was stopping him from testing it. Regardless, why even allow a thief to take it in the first place? Why NOT an intrusion alarm? He could be busy, or distracted - why allow a thief any additional time to escape? "Voldemort captures them for interrogation" - No, he doesn't, because he has no way of knowing what happens in the cave. "and then the Inferi attack" - no, they don't, if the adult prevents the drinker from going for the water and either kills them outright or incapacitates them and carries away.
427*** He only ''mentions'' thinking he'd know if the Horcrux was destroyed, but we can ''infer'' that the Horcrux was supposed to do more than that. You have to look at the quote in the context of the situation: the issue was "some of my Horcuxes might be destroyed," so his thought process was "I thought I would know if they were destroyed." That doesn't preclude the possibility that the Horcruxes were supposed to alert him to ''other'' things, too; he's just focussing on the most critical part of the situation. This isn't spelled out in the book, but I don't know that it has to be; we know from the diary, the locket, and the snake that the Horcruxes can communicate with other beings, and we know from the snake that they can communicate with each other at a distance, so I don't think it's a big stretch for Voldemort to think that the pieces of soul would reach out to him if endangered. They didn't, because he misjudged the amount of autonomy the non-living ones had, but he's arrogant enough to have thought that they could have. "Nothing was stopping him from testing it" - um, how do you test "will I know if my Horcrux is destroyed" without ''destroying the Horcrux'', which runs counter to his goals?
428** This can all be answered with one simple point. Snape states that, in the past, it was often Voldemort's pleasure to invade the minds of his enemies and impant visions which would drive them mad, push them through agony, and only when he had them literally begging for death would he finally kill them. This is essentially what the Drink of Despair does: implants visions and makes the drinker relive their worst memories, to drive them into madness. And while we don't know precisely when the locket was made into a Horcrux, it was before he learnt of the prophecy, so it was the Voldemort of old, the Voldemort that enjoyed playing mind games on his victims, that made the potion, during the time when he found enjoyment in making his enemies insane and begging for death rather than just outright killing them.
429[[/folder]]
430
431[[folder:Pouring out potion]]
432
433* Why, why, why didn't they just scoop out a cup and pour it out instead of drinking it? I'll probably get some response that it would teleport back or something, but even then, it would have been worth a try.
434** Because DD probably learned about the exact extent of the potion's effect from Kreacher (otherwise he'd be an idiot to even attempt drinking it), and was fine with it, since him being so weakened would make it look more plausible for Snape to overpower and kill him.
435** Nope, there's no way Dumbledore knew that Kreacher had drunk the potion, because if he had he would have known that Regulus replaced the real locket and there was no point going to the cave. (And he probably would have gotten the locket from Kreacher/Mundungus/Umbridge.) While he may be a high-order Chessmaster, I just don't see him putting Harry in that kind of danger for no good reason. And as someone said above, there's no indication that Dumbledore was planning on dying that very night--he had no clue that Malfoy would invade the school, and indeed probably wanted to show Harry exactly how to destroy a Horcrux.
436** *Shrug* Then he's an idiot to even attempt drinking it. I'm more then happy to accept this default answer.
437** While it wasn't stated in the book I'd be surprised if there wasn't something to prevent them just dumping it out and Dumbledore just didn't bother with it because it would be a waste of time. After all, when Harry tried to conjure up water into the cup it just evaporated. Whether or not that was the potions doing or just some spell over the area isn't as important as is the fact that this base was covered and likely other ones, spilling the potion included, would have been covered as well.
438* Dumbledore literally says in the book that the potion can't be scooped out: "But how to reach [the Horcrux]? This potion cannot be '''penetrated by hand''', Vanished, '''parted, scooped up, or siphoned away,''' nor can it be Transfigured, Charmed, or otherwise made to change its nature."
439[[/folder]]
440
441[[folder:The cursed arm... not THAT hopeless!]]
442* If Snape managed to contain the baneful magic of the ring inside Dumbledore's arm, why didn't they just amputate it?
443** And wouldn't that be sending up a massive red flare to anybody looking that something is going on?
444** Having his hand burned beyond cure already sent it. Besides, if V could create prosthetic limbs, surely D also could.
445** I think it was more the moral of the thing. Dumbledore knew Harry would have to defeat Voldemort, and he's helped him a lot. I mean, come on! The guy's a 150! I think D knew it was his time, but I'm wondering if he knew that he would die THAT NIGHT. I think he might have told Harry a tad more...
446** Dumbledore's behaviour has never implied that he cared much for the opinions of others (at least not those he considers wrong-minded), so I don't think his choice to keep his arm attached had to do with how things ''looked''. He has, however, demonstrated a tendency toward reminding ''himself'' of his own weaknesses. It makes more sense that Dumbledore kept the withered arm as a reminder to himself of the temptations he has failed to resist, even knowing he probably only had a year to live.
447** Knowing all the Dark things that happened before the prosthetic hand (taking blood from the unwilling, severing limbs, and destroying bits of the dead), means it may easily have been a Dark spell that Dumbledore would be unwilling to cast. A 'light' method of amputation and healing may have taken him out of commission for a period of time he didn't want to spend on recovering. Dumbles knew he was to die in a year, but the pain (if he had any) was probably not such to warrant amputation while he was busy doing things like tracking down other Horcruxes and trying to destroy them. Doing things for cosmetic purposes is not Dumbledore's style, in particular since amputation would not be a significantly less noticeable change than the withered arm.
448** The taking blood from the unwilling, severing limbs, and destroying bits of the dead were just to give Voldemort a new body. Why would the ritual be designed to give a disembodied spirit a new body AND grant said spirit the ability to create limbs? He probably just knew or created a spell to do it.
449** I assume that you can contain the dark magic in one part of your body, but not separate it. So, if you try to amputate it, the magic comes back in your arm, and so on.
450** A ''Manga/RanmaOneHalf'' fanfic I once read featured a magic ring that was similarly irremovable; if the hand was amputated, then the wound would ''never stop bleeding'', and neither would any other wound, until one was dead. Perhaps this ring works on a similar basis?
451** That amputation would only accelerate the curse was my assumption. I also remember a fan theory that stated using powerful magic would accelerate the curse, hence the significance of it being his wand arm. This was purportedly why he scheduled the horcrux excursion on the night he knew shit was about to hit the fan, as a "last hurrah" of sorts. Didn't make total sense after[=DH=]but was an interesting idea.
452[[/folder]]
453
454[[folder:Chasing Malfoy]]
455* Dumbledore was reluctant to approach or actively impede Malfoy out of fear that V would kill the boy. How exactly was he supposed to do that while Malfoy was in Hogwarts and, moreover, how was he supposed to know? It's not as if he can control or scan people remotely, is it (he never knew that Snape betrayed him)? So, as I see it, talk to the boy, persuade him to reform (or just force him, it's for his own good), hide him somewhere, retrieve and hide Narcissa. Then have Snape kill you. Done. No collateral victims.
456** I get the feeling that it was a problem of too much to do, too little time to do it in. He had to chase down leads on Horcruxes, teach Harry about them, try to train (and/or manipulate) Harry so that he would have just the right mindset when it came time for him to take over the hunt, maintain the Order of the Phoenix, try to keep the Minister of Magic off his tail... He underestimated how creative and desperate Draco was, and thus allowed him to slip under his radar. And a good part of it was just terrible luck, really; what are the odds that Draco would finish his little project on the ''exact'' day that Dumbledore is weakened from Horcrux retrieval? I mean, yes, he was cursed to die at the end of the year and this might be how the curse manifested itself, but still.
457** Uhm, he was so over his head that he couldn't spare an evening to deal with a problem that threatens his students? However, it's not the issue. What's bugging me is why Dumbledore was reluctant to approach Draco to persuade or arrest him and hide him somewhere safe. How was Voldemort supposed to find out and kill Draco?
458** The problem is that if Dumbledore stops Draco, then Snape has to fulfill his part of the unbreakable vow of killing Dumbledore since Draco failed. Doing that early in the year would be disastrous to both his plans and the wizarding world.
459** The Vow obviously allows you to TakeYourTime as long as you are determined to uphold it, so no.
460** We only see one Vow, and the way it's worded, we can't be sure of that. Snape doesn't only Vow to kill Dumbledore with no timeline specified. He Vows to watch and protect Draco as long as he's scheming to kill Dumbledore, and to do so himself when it appears Draco is about to fail. If Dumbledore had confronted Draco before the tower scene, the scheming would be over, Draco would have failed, and, likely, the Vow would have triggered. Dumbledore trusted Snape to keep Draco out of trouble in the meantime, and as discussed near the top of this page, he didn't do as good a job as hoped. But, to keep both Dumbledore and Snape alive, not to mention Draco himself, they had to let Draco keep trying.
461** I agree that it seems ''extremely'' likely that the Vow (which Snape probably informed Dumbledore of right away) had a big influence on how Dumbledore treated the situation. But aside from that:
462** The argument about legilimency/occlumency is not valid. Snape is identified from the first time these terms are brought up as being a ''superb'' occlumens, according to Lupin, and Dumbledore even wants Snape to teach Harry - the most likely victim of Vold's legilimency - because of Snape's skill. He has managed to be undiscovered because of his skill. There is no evidence that Draco's ability with occlumency is as good as Snape's, much less enough to withstand Voldemort's efforts.
463** As Snape explains it, legilimency is not plain-and-simple 'mind reading', either; one has to know how to find what they're looking for. This suggests that a huge part of Snape's success is ''misleading'' the legilimens into finding feelings and memories that only defend their desired position, rather than just putting up a wall between them, which would be much more suspicious. As it is, Voldemort is suspicious of Snape's loyalties during this time period anyway (and isn't convinced until Snape kills Dumbledore).
464** We don't see Snape's legilimency skills from anyone but Harry, who is fuelled by the pride that forces him to keep eye contact as well as his complete hopelessness at occlumency, and as such we can't trust Harry's skills as the 'norm'. Snape's legilimency skills may be sorely lacking compared to his occlumency skills.
465** Even if Snape's legilimency skills ''aren't'' lacking, Draco is able to immediately detect that Snape is using legilimency on him. If Draco's occlumency skills are enough to prevent Snape from breaking OR if Voldemort's are such that they would detect Snape's unusual determination to find out what Draco was up to, it would be counter-productive to keep pushing. He may 'find out' Draco's secrets by legilimency but Vold may catch him, and if he can't break Draco's defences, Draco would be even less willing to share his information with Snape after Snape tried to use force on him.
466** Aside from all this, it's very unlikely that Snape knew ''everything'' if he resorted to attempting legilimency in the first place. He probably knew Draco's mission but nothing else, and had trouble getting the details he felt he needed in order to fulfill the Vow as well as Dumbledore's wishes.
467** What's really annoying is that the entire plot would have been avoided if somebody had simply tied Draco to a chair, fed him Veritaserum, then Obliviated him of the interrogation afterwards. And while Snape can't do this himself due to the Unbreakable Vow (part of which was swearing to 'protect Draco from harm to the best of his ability', and while legilimency apparently isn't harm, this probably would be), nobody else has this problem, Christ, it’s not like Snape can't just happen to speak up in an Order meeting with "Damn, I sure hope some ruthless paranoid git *Mad-Eye coughs* does anything like this while my back is turned. Apropos of nothing whatsoever, I'm going to be spending next weekend in France on a purchasing trip for rare ingredients and won't be near a floo."
468** But then again, if the Vow is for Snape to kill Dumbledore if Malfoy can’t, then in the moment Moody does all that Snape has to cancel his vacations on France and go back and kill Dumbledore… or die (as that seems to be the consequence of not accomplish the Vow)
469** A general remark: as long as Voldy doesn't detect that either Draco or Snape use Legillimency/Occlumency against HIM, I doubt if he cares much whether they - or any other Death Eater, for that purpose - use it on each other. I think he's under no illusion that the Death Eaters are great friends (would he even want that?) and everything, and some fierce internal competition is probably even to be encouraged as long as it does not actually interfere with the Dark Lord's plans.
470
471[[/folder]]
472
473[[folder:Oh Voldemort, you're such an idiot...]]
474* I understand why the Death Eaters didn't kill Potter when they retreated from the school in the end. BUT WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY TAKE HIM WITH THEM TO VOLDEMORT?!! He was right there alone and utterly defenceless, it would only take them a second to grab him -- which they ''had'' since they stopped to Cruciate him, and, before you say, Snape's excuse is lame: "he belongs to the Dark Lord - leave him"... whaaa? A little consistency here, Sevy? And no, the fact that he'd just killed Dumbledore wouldn't bring much weight to his words, since Dumbledore was already nearly dead and Snape simply stepped in for Draco. And before you say more, for Voldemort to order them to leave Potter in the first place is nonsensical even for him. Even if he can't kill him, surely it's better to have Potter chained in his dungeon than to have him roam free, isn't it? And in book 7, he was perfectly fine with[=DE=]catching Potter, so why not then?
475** And why didn't they try to kill him, exactly? Because of the blood protection?
476** It's mostly Snape interpreting Voldemort's orders to Harry's advantage. Voldemort didn't order anyone to capture, hurt, or otherwise impede him (possibly not expecting Harry to show up during Draco's mission), so Snape assumes the orders say to leave him alone for Voldemort to have a worthy opponent. At this time, Voldemort wants Dumbledore dead, is working out the wand issue, and anything he hasn't realised about any powers Harry really has due to the protection his mother gave him. Just because he's immune to it because of the stolen blood doesn't mean his Death Eaters are, so he waits until they wear off when Harry leaves the protection of the house in book 7. There's also that nagging thought in the back of his head about the prophecy and how he doesn't know what it says entirely.
477** Uhuh, except that V is clearly not the type who cares about worthy opponents, so there is '''no reason''' he wouldn't order his goons to capture Potter at the first opportunity. Not just in that particular operation but by default, like "you see ‘em, you grab ‘em, you bring ‘em to me". And the wand issue has nothing to do with this, and Harry's "powers" can do squat as some Death Eater Cruciated him right before Snape told them to leave, and missing the prophecy didn't stop V from [=AKing=] Potter in the end of book 5.
478** Incorrect. Voldemort ''gave Harry back his wand'' in book 4. If he just wanted to kill him, why would he do such a thing? Yes, it could be to humiliate him, but he also wanted to show his followers that Harry was no match even when he had a wand. This is why Snape can get away with saying this, not that it's a standing order, but that it's vague enough to work. Again, the idea is that he was distracted by the wand problem and Dumbledore and thus didn't think anyone would run into Harry to capture him, so he left no orders to capture Harry. Harry's powers might be able to do squat when he's being hit by a spell, but try and grab him and take him back to Voldemort and who knows what his protection magic might do before he turns 17 (unless it's only targeted to Voldemort, then I'd concede that point).
479** Voldemort didn’t give Harry his wand back to humiliate him. He wanted to show to his Death Eaters that Harry was not a threat. He wanted them to see that even with his wand and ability to fight, Voldemort was his better and would kill him. He feared that having once tried to kill Harry and failed, that people might not think of him as the most powerful. Now it didn’t work out well, but that was the intention, to quell any mutinous thoughts...
480** "why would he do such a thing?" Because he'd just resurrected and needed to re-establish himself as the baddest ass around in the eyes of his cronies. In book 5, he overgrew that stupid superstition and [=AKed=] Harry right away ''having first incapacitated him''. No WorthyOpponent bullshit even then. In book 7, the[=DE=]try to capture Potter all the time even though V is still distracted by the wand problem (even more so), so why not a little earlier? Oh, and Dumbledore wasn't his problem - he was Draco's (and by extension, Snape's) one. As for the protection, give me a break. Protection that cannot protect its client against being tortured to death (or against sharp objects, or having his soul sucked out, or Basilisk's bites) but is supposed to protect him against being ''kidnapped'' sounds ridiculous.
481** Perhaps they assumed Snape has been given more explicit/different orders than they had? I think we know enough of Voldemort to assume that he wouldn't tell the entirety of his plan to every single Death Eater, so they might have been wary of going against what Snape said in case it ''was'' an order from Voldemort. If your boss was Voldemort, and there was a chance he could remotely disapprove of something you're about to do, would you still do it?
482** Snape specifically says that Voldemort doesn't want them to touch Harry because Harry is Voldemort's to kill. It does not really matter why Voldemort would do this, and something tells me that Death Eaters questioning orders will not go well for them, so they don't even have to know what Voldemort's supposed rationale for this is. If Voldemort said "don't touch Harry", they had better not touch him. They believe Snape when he says this, as the only reason he could possibly have for lying is if he's secretly on the side of the light. If Snape had tried claiming that Harry was Voldemort's to kill in book five, then it might not have flown, but since Snape had finally firmly declared his allegiance (or so it seemed) by killing Dumbledore only minutes before, why would they doubt him? And the fact that Dumbledore wouldn't be getting off that roof alive doesn't really matter, as it's still a very unlikely thing for someone on Dumbledore's side to have stepped up to kill him. Possible, yes, but it's not like they have time to ponder any of these questions in great detail. Someone stopped to attack Harry on their way out of the Hogwarts grounds, Snape said Voldemort wouldn't approve, Voldemort wasn't to be questioned, and Snape just proved that he was on their side, so the Death Eater stopped.
483** This is even more ridiculous. So V is getting the strike team ready to go to Hogwarts, you know, the place where Harry Potter resides '''without''' blood protection, and he doesn't tell them "Oh yeah, before I forget, if somebody sees the brat, stun him and bring him along, ''alive''"? That's improbably stupid even for V.
484** Was Voldemort ever directly involved in this plan? Unlikely, I know, but if he wasn't, that might explain why they didn't just take the Castle ''then''.
485** They didn't take it because the Ministry was still operating. Apparently, despite its glaring incompetence, it was still a force to reckon with in a frontal confrontation. Hence their cautious actions the next year. As for the first part, are you kidding me? A plan to assassinate the BigGood proceeding without direct supervision from the BigBad? Again, it doesn't necessary have to relate to this particular plan - "Get me Harry Potter" should've by all means been an integral part of an everyday Death Eater morning briefing, right before the "...and I'll cruciate the f* out of you, if you, elf-spawn, f* up again" part.
486** "A plan to assassinate the BigGood proceeding without direct supervision from the BigBad?". What plan? There was no plan, he sent Draco on a goose chase hoping he'd get killed just to mess with Lucius. He gave him no instructions besides "kill Dumbledore". Bellatrix followed Narcissa's whims and Narcissa was horribly worried for her son, that's why he got any backup at all, and rather lousy backup at that. There were less Death Eaters in the raid than the amount Dumbledore casually asswhooped in the Department of Mysteries. Voldemort never expected him to succeed, the whole thing was a crapshoot because Dumbledore would be dead in weeks anyhow and decided to play along to fortify Snape's cover. You are all making an enormous deal out of something Snape barked at one random Death Eater while they were running the fuck away from the castle before backup arrived.
487** The plan to kill DD, of course. I hope you will agree that V ''needed'' to remove him before he could make his grand move. Sure, he expected Draco to fail, (not get killed, who the hell was supposed to kill him, DD?), but messing with Lucius was only an added bonus - the objective to kill DD '''was'' there. Besides, Draco's efforts didn't cost V anything, so he could allow not caring much about them, but a squad of his EliteMooks infiltrating the enemy HQ? No way would a control freak like him take no interest in such an endeavour (neither would they dare to undertake it without his leave, for that matter). Not to mention that Bella had no reasons to "follow Narcissa's whim", when she so clearly despised her for fretting over Draco, and, again, grabbing Potter he moment they see him should've by all means be the standing order for all Death Eaters.
488** The naysayers in this argument have good and valid points, but they need to balance their views in the knowledge of the situation and it's context. This was a strike mission to remove the BigGood and therefore set up the end game for conquering the UK. Snape handily does that and proves to all present, not least of all Bellatrix, that he's Voldermort's man through and through. So Snape becomes the de facto leader of the group, making his word law. They are unable to disapparate from Hogwarts grounds. They have Malfoy with them and several of them do have a vested interest in his wellbeing. Bella did ''not'' despise Narcissa or her love for her son, her sister is one of the few she can have anything even like affection and love for. No, she's initially disdainful for her concern for her son and unwillingness for him to give himself up to the cause, but now that Snape did the deed for him, she wants to protect him and get him out of the grounds. And even in this high-profile assassination mission, they don't want to spend a moment longer there than necessary, because of the magical protections, Aurors and Order members who are going to open a can of ass beatings on them for killing Dumbledore. So they need to '''''run like hell'''''. Furthermore, the panic and adrenaline surge they're feeling is mixed in with a sheer evil joy at accomplishing the mission, making them unlikely to make major cognitive decisions on the run and go outside the defined mission parameters. Then, look forward only a few weeks to the first chapter of ''Deathly Hallows'', where Voldemort sets in motion the plan to capture or kill Harry while he's being moved from the Dursleys to the Burrow. He obviously thinks it's safer to abduct the boy there rather than at the castle where you'd have to drag him through it and under attack from all the forces of good. He also clearly enjoys the thrill of the hunt and being able to lead it. He wants the Dursleys' magical protection over Harry to expire once he comes of age, eliminating one more means of shielding for the boy. Moreover, he's all too aware of the wand problem now, and he needs a substitute before he's ready to engage in the hunt. He surely knew all of this during the assassination mission against Dumbledore, so he ''very likely didn't want them to bring him Potter, not yet, not before he chose to.'' So this alone means they ''daren't'' go against his will. Add up all of these factors and the ones other tropers have mentioned and it becomes totally, utterly, 110% justified as to why they let Harry go free on this occasion.
489[[/folder]]
490
491[[folder:Merope Gaunt Fails Naming Forever]]
492* Why did Merope name her son after her sucky husband and sucky father, both of whom treated her like crap?
493** Even so, they were, apparently, ''the only'' people sans her insane brother she ever connected with. Sad.
494** Uh, right. Lmao the 'sucky' husband that spent their entire relationship under MindControl via a love potion? It's probable that he was a dick anyway, the narrative sure represents him that way, but the fact is that she was willing to [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale force]] him to be her lover without caring a whit about his consent. The fact that people are so harsh toward Tom Sr. continues to surprise me, since Rowling's obvious intent was to show that this relationship was an immoral abuse on Merope's part ([[WordOfGod a loveless union... coercion... couldn't be a more prejudicial way to enter the world...]]). She named her son after the man she had "loved", who was not a sucky husband because he was being controlled via chemicals. He left her after she stopped using it on him and he was able to exert free will again. Obviously her father was an abusive prick, so I see what you mean there, but when it comes to the fact that she named her son after Tom Sr., I find it completely unsurprising, because her obsession with him was such that she would do ''anything'' to possess him. It was pretty clear that this was supposed to be (at least by authorial intent) the opposite of a 'virtuous' love like Snape's, which may have been obsessive but which did not include any sort of force or coercion, and included the respect and genuine affection necessary for him to stand aside when she chose a life that excluded him, something Merope was unwilling to do.
495** Oh my, a rape victim isn't particularly fond of their rapist? Shocker that.
496** More simply, by the time Tom was born Merope Gaunt and sanity hadn't been speaking to each other for months. If not years.
497** More concretely, if Merope knew that she was going to die (or had willed herself to), then the best thing she could do for her boy was give him a way to find his family -- name him after his Muggle father, in case one wants to look for the other, and give him the Marvolo name so that he could find the other branch of his family. Also, her father drummed pure-blood pride and the glory of being descendants of Slytherin into her head all her life, something clearly stuck.
498** And people who grow up in abusive families do develop some twisted affection for their abusers. We don't see enough of the Gaunts to know if Marvolo could sometimes be nicer or give Merope the occasional PetTheDog moment. So Merope may have felt some lingering affection for her father.
499** It's easy to see why she would name her son after Tom, the man she pined for and was obsessed enough with to forceably marry. As for her father, as said above, people growing up in abusive families do still have affection for those who abuse them. This is just a long term, familial version of Stockholm Syndrome. Marfolo basically forced her to serve both him and her brother and abused her terribly, yet he was her father and felt that love for him and wanted to earn his love somehow, even if he never could give it.
500[[/folder]]
501
502[[folder:Has Snape lowered his standards?!?]]
503* A more dull example, but why is it that Snape accepts E students into this DADA class when he only accepted O students for Potions?
504** Because he wasn't in charge of it the year prior, and couldn't really blame the students with Umbridge teaching the class. It was more his ego saying "here's how to teach it correctly", and the best way to do that would be to teach as many students as possible.
505** Because Britain is being threatened with domination by a genocidal Dark wizard, and it's kind of important for as many people as possible to learn as much as possible about defending themselves against him?
506** And an admitted ex-Death Eater refusing to teach DADA to the majority of students would be politically unwise at a time when the Ministry has finally acknowledged the threat.
507** Because it's possible, if not probable, that Harry was the only person to get an "O". Hermione didn't even pull it off.
508** Picture it: Snape finally getting the job of his dream only to be stuck with a class where the only student would be harry. XD I think I understood why he lowered his standards...
509** Because Snape really is the best person to teach kids how to defend themselves against the Dark Arts (being well-versed in them, and almost certainly having used many of them himself), and if Dumbledore is telling him to give as many students as possible the knowledge they'll need to protect themselves, he's not going to say "Only if they get an Outstanding". To do so could have cost him his job and Dumbledore's protection.
510** Well, he could have tried, but Dumbledore would basically have said, "Get that Dark Arts elitism shit out of my house. This is HOGWARTS, son." Only, y'know. Dumbledorey.
511** Since he wasn't the teacher the year before, he couldn't suddenly up the requirements for students to get in, seeing as several had likely already registered for the class. Potions, however, Slughorn was allowed to lower the standard to an E, since that would allow more people to take the class.
512[[/folder]]
513
514[[folder:Force-Feeding Time! :D]]
515* Returning to the matter of V's potion, it's said that it had to be drunk, but it's not specified who or ''what'' had to drink it. What about an animal? A sacrificial lamb, so to say. Surely Dumbledore wasn't THAT big of a FriendToAllLivingThings, was he? And please, don't rush to handwave with something like "V would've foreseen that", because with the amount of things he didn't foresee, this argument is invalid by default.
516** Or, alternatively, Dumbledore is ''not'' completely stupid, and it had to be drunk by a human. We already know that it has to be drunk just to get it out of the bowl, so if we assume that Dumbledore knows even slightly -- even ''slightly'' -- what he's doing, that he really is the most intelligent and gifted wizard of his age, and that a sensible reader does not need every potential loophole spelled out and dismissed before accepting the gravity of a situation, then we can also assume that there is a reason a person has to drink it.
517** That's all very nice, except that Voldemort successfully tested the potion on a house-elf, so the drinker definitely '''didn't''' need to be human.
518** Sentient, then. And Dumbledore is enough of a FriendToAllLivingThings not to torture a house-elf into insanity. Given the pain we see him going through as he's being fed the potion, and we know that he's hallucinating about his innumerable past sins, it would make sense for the potion to rely on some kind of pain beyond which a non-intelligent animal can fathom.
519** Sentience is a rather elastic notion in Potterverse. Kneazles (like Hermione's cat) are at least semi-sentient, owls too, maybe others as well. And again, seeing how unimaginative and shortsighted V was in his arrangements (the bloke didn't even install an alarm in that cave, for Khorne's sake!), it stretches the bounds of plausible to think he'd foreseen something so exquisite.
520** Why? He doesn't have to foresee it. "Being" has a specific definition in the Potterverse; all he would have to do is tie the potion to that, so that ''something'' had to suffer immensely to get the potion out. House-elves clearly count. One imagines a goblin would as well. Vampires too. Veela. A big long list of things can suck down the pain juice with minimal thinking on his part. Also, failing to foresee one thing doesn't mean he's completely and utterly incompetent. Voldemort is a malicious and sadistic little bastard, but he was also one of the most accomplished and brilliant wizards of his age. He could very easily have the potion only drain if feeding it to someone who would ''really'' suffer for it.
521** So Confound yourself with the delusion that this potion is really tasty and the burning sensation in your brain is actually happiness leaving your body, then chug chug chug. The problem with magic traps based on the victim's state of mind is that magic exists to fuck with a person's state of mind pretty much to whatever degree you feel like.
522** Okay, people, here's another point to consider: Dumbledore has probably the best grasp on WhatMeasureIsANonHuman out of all the characters in the series (yes, including Hermione, whose insistence on starting and furthering SPEW gave house-elves no credit for being intelligent enough to ''choose'' the lifestyle that made them happy). With this in mind, why on earth would he have forced a house-elf, Kneazle, or any other semi-sentient, non-human creature to drink that potion and go through that awfulness? And why are so many of the people replying to this insistent that he should have? I know some of you consider Dumbledore a manipulative bastard, and to a degree he was, but he wasn't wantonly cruel as well.
523** Because that way he could've stayed in control of the situation and then taken the victim back to Hogwarts where it could be nurtured back to health, since the potion was not lethal. The way it did happen, he put all his hopes on one lame adolescent wizard (who failed miserably) and a wild chance that even poisoned D would still be able to save their collective butts (arbitrary whim of the author).
524** You don't think Dumbledore, who had a fully-formed plan to take over the world that inadvertently resulted in the death of his sister, who sat idly by while his former partner committed wanton acts of evil because he was afraid of what he might discover if he went after him, who is arguably the one wizard most aware of his own darkness and the limits to which he will go if he allows himself, might have a reason to hesitate at the idea of that kind of act? Even if you could just use a cow to get the potion out, it's still animal sacrifice. That's pretty dark magic for someone who knows how easy it'd be to go bad.
525** Sure, he'd be hesitant. But hesitance can (and should) be overcome with determination. I'll reiterate: the plan D used was INSANE. He didn't know if the potion wouldn't kill him outright (he only had speculations on that part), or if there were no other wards revealing themselves once the thief touched the locket (the fact that there were not further reinforces my point that V was an idiot and thus would hardly think of something as sophisticated as sentience-discriminating poison). UNLESS, of course, he '''did''' know in detail how the cave worked, having either questioned Kreacher or done exactly as I suggested and tested the potion on someone else. In either case, he would've already known that the Horcrux was a fake and the whole endeavour would've been just a ruse to distract Potter from pursuing Draco's case, to give Potter a training in ruthlessness and to get himself (Dumbledore that is) an excuse to force Snape into killing him. And that would've been freaking awesome.
526** "He's brilliant! But yes, he is mad."
527** Aren't Phoenixes immortal and have tears that can heal just about anything? Let’s see: Summon Fawkes - Let him die - Everyone lives. Or alternatively: Summon Fawkes - Use magical healing tears to strengthen Dumbledore during/after drinking the potion - Everyone lives. And Phoenixes are at ''least'' as smart as Kneazles and Elves so don't say that it wouldn't have worked. A classic case of a SenselessSacrifice in all but the fact that DD didn't actually parish directly from this action.
528** New plan: Just don't remove the locket at all. Simply destroy it in the potion! If you can't stab the thing through the potion, Fiendfyre the whole thing! Or, just mix Basilisk venom into the potion and watch as the Horcrux is destroyed by its own protection. (Granted, it wasn't the Horcrux, but still.)
529** No can do. The potion blocked everything. As for alarms, D probably deactivated them; they have to be a pretty obvious spell, right? Also, considering D learning all about the cave just by touching it and the fact he spent large amounts of time out of Hogwarts it's safe to say he did enough research to ascertain that only Beings could cross the lake. Actually, come to think of it, that would fit with why D didn't bring Fawkes to heal him. V is hugely powerful and smart, if insane, and probably took precautions. Also if the potion was immediately lethal, V couldn't question the thief; the Inferi were a back-up for if someone brought an assistant with them.
530** "As for alarms, D probably deactivated them" - uhuh, then I guess Regulus deactivated them too. "only Beings could cross the lake" - how were Inferi supposed to stop a flying bird? "V couldn't question the thief" - thief drinks the potion, thief gets thirsty, thief drinks from the lake, thief gets drowned by Inferi. Again, as we saw with Regulus, it happens even when the thief is alone. Where does questioning come into the equation again? 'Inferi were a back-up" - a rather shitty backup as DD pwned them even when poisoned. If he did as I suggested and used someone else as a drinker, they would've done jack squat at all.
531** "how were Inferi supposed to stop a flying bird?" They weren't. There were wards for that. Just trying to summon something or tossing a ball of light over the water caused the water itself to lurch up and swallow the spell. Remember, Voldemort himself uses the boat while checking on the basin in the seventh book, and ''he can fly''. It's unlikely that he'd forgotten he could do that just then, he had bloody flown to the cave to begin with.
532*** Unless he decided to also check the boat itself while he's at it.
533** Phoenixes can teleport through anything, even places specifically warded against teleporting like Hogwarts. And they can carry passengers while they do it. Dumbledore shouldn't even have needed the boat.
534** "a rather shitty backup as DD pwned them even when poisoned" Dumbledore had already drunk the water and regained some of his sanity, and Harry held them off at bay for a few moments longer. You are also seemingly going by the movie version in saying he fought them off. In the book, he barely manages to summon a much smaller ring of fire to hold them at bay while Harry carries him out the cave. Forget defeating the Inferi en masse, he couldn't even walk for long on his own and would have been dragged underwater once he lost his strength.
535** "If he did as I suggested and used someone else as a drinker, they would've done jack squat at all."
536** Who said the potions itself couldn't only being drunk by a "being?" I didn't get the impression that Voldermort created the potion, just that he used one already in existence. If he got one that he heard about, a dark potion meant to protect an object sitting in it, than the properties of the potion may have already been set to only work on sentient beings.
537** Why am I under the impression that if Dumbledore did exactly that and gives the potion to an animal/house elf/other person, then probably the same tropers would be saying how incredible evil bastard Dumbledore is for doing that?\
538Ignoring the awful argument of “let’s commit animal cruelty and torture an animal with a potion that cause pain in order to save my ass”, we have a saying in Spanish: “No le busques cinco patas al gato” [Don’t look for a fifth paw of the cat] does a book really need to have every single possible outcome that any human mind can think about, any plausible way in the existence of the cosmos on how the events could happen in other way? In which case, wouldn’t that book be terribly boring like a very long essay with no action and hundreds and hundreds of pages? Yes, there are many ways how that scene could happen, he could give the potion to an animal, or a sentient non-human creature (no matter how unethical that is), he also could have a hadrons-collider and make a wormhole to send the potion into another dimension and not having to drink it, or he also could make himself an exact replica of an android that would drink the potion with no danger. I mean, possibilities are endless, the entire chapter could be 1000 pages.
539
540[[/folder]]
541
542[[folder:The Blades of Vague Darkness]]
543* Why exactly is Sectumsempra treated as something horrible and Dark? It's practically just a combat version of Diffindo. In comparison to, say, ''an exploding spell'', you'd think it'd be no big deal.
544** It's more the way he used it (not even knowing what it did), but Sectumsempra is a Dark curse that has to have a specific countercurse to repair or stop the damage. For Diffindo, the nurse could heal the damage relatively quickly so long as they're not hit in anywhere too vital.
545** I find that a general problem in settings which make a distinction between "light" magic and "dark" magic is that the distinction often seems arbitrary, with nobody ever bothering to explain just what common characteristic is shared among the "dark" magics and why that characteristic is bad. I think that is the case in the Harry Potter setting, too. It was particularly noticeable when Lily and Snape where arguing about somebody's character and Lily saying that he used "''Dark magic''" as if that settled the issue beyond any doubt.
546** [[DoesThisRemindYouOfanything It's the ''Man'', man! The Ministry tells you what to cast, what not to brew, and if Umbridge had had her way, they'd be telling you what socks to wear and making Cheering Charms illegal! The Man is telling us that certain spells are "Dark magic", even spells that have never been in clinical trials, with no more reason than that they're "bad", when Sectumsempra is no worse than Diffindo, and many "Dark" spells and illegal potions are either harmless or have perfectly reasonable non-recreational uses. Now if you'll excuse me, my buzz is wearing off, so I need to go treat my nearsightedness]].[[note]]For anyone who was offended by being called "man", I sincerely apologise.[[/note]]
547** I imagine that injuries caused by Sectumsempra are more likely to be permanent. When Snape used it on George and cut his ear off, it couldn't be regrown. Had he used Diffindo, I imagine the damage could have been repaired. So there you go. Sectumsempra accomplishes nothing Diffindo couldn't, unless you're some kind of sicko who wants to permanently harm someone. So what is Sectumsempra needed for?
548** Sectumsempra is considered dark and frightening because it's a rogue spell. Diffindo is a common spell that could be looked up in a book. Sectumsempra has mysterious origins and can cause serious, irreparable harm. Nobody knows exactly what it does or how to counteract it. Sectumsempra could even be comparable to the Cruciatus Curse in terms of lasting damage. If the spell had hit George in the back instead of the ear, he might have died. It isn't really ''needed''; I think Snape created Sectumsempra as a weapon against the Marauders. Snape could seriously injure "enemies" and have them at his mercy, since he is the only one who knows the counter-curse. Snape could have just as easily used an existing spell, but opted to make one of his own to give himself the ultimate advantage.
549** Diffindo is a simple cutting spell that's not made for combat, it's akin to being cut with a knife while Sectumsempra is like being slashed with a sword, that and the wounds made by Sectumsempra can't be healed without the appropriate counterspell.
550** Maybe Sectumsempra only cuts flesh, which would pretty much eliminate any "good" uses for it. This is supported by the film, where the spell left Malfoy's shirt intact while slashing the skin underneath.
551** It makes sense to me that the real danger with Sectumsempra is, like said a bit before, because it's a rogue spell that wizards don't know how to combat (likely because they don't know the theory behind spell-making, much less behind Dark Arts spells which may potentially work in a different way). Obviously the proper countercurse is needed to heal the injuries, but it's not as if these things are just assigned somehow - Snape would have had to discover the countercurse in the same way he had to discover the spell itself. It's invention based on existing magical law, which means that people who knew how to craft new magic spells would probably be able to discover the appropriate counter-curse, too.
552** When it comes to the idea of combat uses making it a Dark spell, and Snape's use of the spell - obviously it is POSSIBLE to very seriously injure someone with this spell. We see Harry do this accidentally, and in the case of George's ear, it was also accidental (but Snape's intended target would have suffered a more debilitating injury), but the way we see him use the spell does end in very different results than what Harry did accidentally. There's a great potential for damage with the spell, but given that Snape was using this when he was a student, even, it's unlikely he ever intended to hurt someone THAT badly with it. Someone below said that maybe it only cut James' cheek because he missed a target at James' head, which is crazy to me. Snape was not trying to decapitate his classmates. It seems that he used the spell as he had originally intended, for small-to-moderate injury to 'enemies', namely those people that attacked him on a regular basis. When Harry uses it, he is panicked and doesn't know what the spell is, he wildly casts it with a huge emotional fuelling to it, and Draco just collapses in a shower of blood because of that passion. The spell is probably considered Dark more because of the fact that it requires a certain amount of control to wield and because it is an unknown 'rogue' spell, not because it was intended to slice people's chests open or heads off. Something that can damage that greatly without the caster even knowing what the spell does is dangerous and rightfully considered 'Dark'.
553** In principle, by those same lines, Fred and George's stuff is Dark. Which, in fact, it ''does'' overlap with (they often trade in a number of items that many folks consider Dark).
554** But it still comes down to the intent of the caster, as seems to be the case with all Dark magic. Obviously in a combat situation, it's useful, and his intent to cut off the hand of the other Death Eater is a nonlethal (thus not soul-damaging) but perfectly efficient use of magic in a violent situation to protect the Order. It's a war, it's just as moral as any other weapon. However, the common mentality about Dark magic is that it's unequivocally evil and that everyone who uses it is evil, which seems to be part of the problem with the labelling - Rowling shows how that mentality makes it easy for young people like Snape, who doesn't display the same sort of racism that fuels the Death Eater movement, to get sucked into it because he was ostracized for his interest in a topic which isn't innately evil, but which can be used for evil purposes (as most magic probably can). The Death Eaters play on that because it attracts loners that can suddenly feel part of a community that values them and their skills, which is common practice with radical terrorist organizations. I think the characters in the books do tend to confuse TheDarkSide with 'Dark Magic' because of semantic reasons and the fact that Voldemort employs Dark Magic to do his genocide and world domination plots, which is actually pretty realistic. But the fact remains that the use of 'Dark Magic' does not a Death Eater make (Harry uses it a few times, including Unforgivable curses), and the definition of Dark Magic is ambiguous because people don't really understand it anyway and are misled because of it. Snape's interest in Dark Magic has always been one of the biggest reasons he's mistrusted, even though his use of Dark Magic has basically always been beneficial to the Order as a whole, excepting accidental situations.
555** Thank you so much! Yay! The concept of Dark Magic vs. Light Magic always seemed oddly vague - kind of like the warrior code from Literature/WarriorCats. "Dark Magic" can be used for good as well as evil, it's how it's used that counts, not what you use. It does kinda bug me how Lily is able to brush off Snape by essentially saying "you used Dark Magic, so you're in the wrong; James and Sirius only use light magic, so they're not doing anything ''evil''." Can't you use Light Magic for just as much evilness as Dark Magic? From Snape's commentary on the Dark Arts in book six, it seems that Dark Magic is more wild than evil: it can only be 'tamed,' while Light Magic is 'domesticated.'
556** Ermmm, the last two answers aren't quite on the money. "His intent to cut off the hand is a nonlethal... use of magic". Nope. Not at all. That kind of injury would cause shock and a MASSIVE amount of blood loss, more than likely enough for the victim to bleed out and die. There's a reason that cutting a hand off is used as punishment in Sharia law countries after all- either the condemned dies outright or they can narrowly staunch the bleeding in time and they live out a pitiful existence without one of his/her primary means of interacting with the tactile world. And the latter outcome is pretty improbable in these real life Muggle countries (some of which admittedly aren't at the cutting edge of healthcare) showing that this sort of wound is ''life-threatening'' to begin with. In the wizarding world? This curse causes a never (naturally) healing cut, it's right there in the name. Unless you're a masterclass healer, i.e. the inventor of the curse himself Snape, you won't be able to perform the counter-curse and administer Dittany fast enough. And in the situation in question? That Death Eater was flying a broom at top speed, needed both hands to fly and no ''way'' would he or his friends be able to staunch the wound in time. So sorry guys, but no "yay" for this curse- it's a dangerous weapon and no wonder it comes under the Dark Magic category. Even if Snape's intentions in the chase were noble (to protect the innocent), he was still utterly willing to cause a deadly injury.
557** Dunno what the source for the above information is, but Sharia pumishment for stealing was ''never'' intended to be lethal, either in theory or in practice. Not to say that it can't be legitimately construed as some kind of "Dark", but it is explicitly distinct from capital punishment (which also exists in Sharia).
558** Rowling's spells use pseudo-Latin, but I read the English translation of Sectumsempra as something like "cut forever". Forever, like it can't heal normally.
559*** Except Snape also uses it on James in the Pensieve flashback. Given how everyone and their dog goes on about how much Harry resembles his father, you'd think someone would have said "but of course his scar was on his cheek or wherever". Evidently it can heal, just as Rictusempra doesn't last forever.
560*** The spell Snape cut James with almost definitely wasn't Sectumsempra. We never hear the incantation for the spell Snape used, but the effects are not consistent with what Sectumsempra does elsewhere. There's no reason to assume that, every time we see Snape use any sort of cutting spell, that it automatically has to be Sectumsempra.
561* The spell is Dark because it doesn't just wound the target but inflicts cursed wounds, which are much harder, and often impossible to heal properly.
562* From what we've seen, it seems any spell specifically designed to bring serious harm, maim, injure or kill someone, and which needs a specific counterspell known or usable only to few people (if any) is classified as dark. Fred & George's products are not designed to harm anyone seriously, and while the effects can linger, they can easily be removed. Healing someone from the sectumsempra, or any cursed wounds actually appears to be next to impossible unless you are an excellent wizard with knowledge of dark magic like Snape, or George would have gotten his ear back. Therefore, "dabbling in the dark arts and studying it" means trying your hardest to master and create spells allowing you to seriously harm someone else while making sure that it cannot be undone, explaining why it is frowned upon by most people. If you add the fact some part of it is about going into what we might call the 'natural laws', like breaking up a soul using cold-blooded murder, it makes even more sense that anyone seriously trying to expand the field would be looked at with suspicion. Of course, it could be used for good, but it would be akin to researching cloning and/or gene modifications by experimenting on humans or developping extensively chemical weapons , which most people take a dim view on. Just saying "think of the potential" does not necessarily make it more acceptable (usually).
563
564[[/folder]]
565
566[[folder:Dark Magic potions]]
567
568* We see ''Levicorpus'' being used in the fifth book by James during his fifth year, and most people seem to think that the curse Snape used on James at the time to make him bleed was ''Sectumsempra'' (which wouldn't make sense since James didn't seem too hurt by it, but just saying). But Snape writes about these spells in his sixth year book? Why? And for that matter, why in his ''Potions'' book? Why not in his DADA book? That was his best subject, after all.
569** I'm going to put on my Watsonian hat and guess that he started making notes in his potions book because that was the subject with the largest amount of easily-fixable flaws he took, and by the time he wrote down Sectumsempra, he was already using the book as a general notebook of sorts.
570** About Snape cursing James, I always thought Snape used an "early" version of Sectumsempra. Or, even more simply, Snape was so worked up that his spell missed and only grazed James's cheek instead of hitting him in the head.
571** As to the question of it being a sixth year book, there are a number of possible explanations. For instance, Snape could have ordered it ahead of time, being that Potions is his best subject (clearly to the point of genius), for personal reading. Or Slughorn might have assigned it in fifth year. It would make sense to use an advanced textbook to make sure students are not only adequately prepared for their OWLS, but ready to pwn them into the ground.
572** And about it not hurting James much, Snape could have mastered the use of Sectumsempra enough so that he could control how much damage it did. I always assumed that he'd meant to just cut him a little. As a bully victim I know that when I did fight back, I did so rather timidly, with great control, and usually failed, so this explanation made the most sense to me.
573** "There is no light or dark, merely righteous and evil intentions". I think Harry's big mistake was using a spell which, as far as he knew, could blow up the building. NEVER use a reality-altering weapon if you don't know what it does! Now imagine that scene if the spell had done something useless and Malfoy could keep fighting.
574** Snape didn't order that book, it was his mothers book, it had been purchased years before he ever got to school. Snape in his first year knew more curses than most seventh years, put it all together. As for dark magic, the magic system in ''Harry Potter'' is pretty vague, but when it comes to spell casting there are two ways to interpret dark magic. There are either seven types of spells, three of which(jinxes, hexes and curses) are dark, almost half! The other way is that there are four types of spells, and the dark arts a modifications of three(transfiguration, charms and counters) that are frowned upon. Either way, almost everyone in the books uses dark magic to some extent in the form of jinxes, it's hexes and curses that get complained about and are presumably delving deeper than advised into the dark arts. It's not a matter of light versus dark, it's a matter of any dark spell that's not a jinx being dangerous, or requiring questionable ethics to make work. The light is almost never talked about, just the danger of the dark.
575** It wasn't stated who owned the potions book prior to Snape, only that it was used. As for Sectumsempra, Snape used it enough that Remus already thought that it was his signature spell so he knew his spell very well by the end of his fifth year. And yes, Snape simply missed hitting James squarely in the face (or wherever he was aiming) and instead, the spell just grazed James on the cheek, causing blood to splatter out. It wasn't stated why there was no permanent scar.
576[[/folder]]
577
578[[folder:ZOMG HE'S BLACK!!!]]
579* Because the fandom so fiercely debates a black actor being cast as Blaise Zabini (who was only described as having "dark skin" in the book), I've decided to TakeAThirdOption: Since he has an Italian surname, is it possible that Blaise is mixed race?
580** I'm thinking he is.
581** Well, Blaise's mother is said to have married 7 times already, with most of her husbands dying in mysterious circumstances. She could have been an Italian witch who got married to a rich Italian wizard, got pregnant with Blaise before the "mysterious" death of the first husband, and then moved to England with her second husband. Maybe Blaise's parents were either both mixed race or one of them could have been white-skinned and the other dark-skinned. Also, in England, a country where most people (I'm not 100% sure about this) are fair-skinned, someone like Blaise would be thought to be dark-skinned. Remember that some Kenyan people said that, had UsefulNotes/BarackObama been born and lived in Kenya, he could have become the first ''white'' President of Kenya.
582** I don't know about the British edition, but the U.S. edition describes Zabini as "a tall black boy with high cheekbones and long, slanting eyes" on page 143, not just as having dark skin.
583** Also, Italian does not equal "dark skin". Italians at least in Europe are considered just as Caucasian/White as any Swede or French or British guy. Could be that the U.S. has different ways to distinguish, but Rowling is British, so European. And no European would claim Italians or Spainiards to be of a different race.
584[[/folder]]
585
586[[folder:Voldemort's awesome social skills]]
587* About Voldemort's backstory, it's been established that he was highly charismatic and polite, being viewed as an upstanding young man by all of his teachers sans Dumbledore; why wasn't he adopted? I hardly think he could or would reject any offers, as anybody who would want to adopt must have the resources for a better lifestyle than the orphanage. Also, if his social skills were something he trained for, thus he didn't have them before Hogwarts, why didn't he get some rich foster parents later, at least to make his last summers, when he couldn't stay at the school, more comfortable? I don't see anything in Lord Voldemort's personality that leads to a frugal lifestyle if he could avoid it easily via manipulation or magic, especially at the cost of some Muggles.
588** It's likely because he's in a Muggle orphanage. Most people adopting wouldn't know about his good reputation at Hogwarts, and those that know he's got a good reputation at Hogwarts know he's in a Muggle orphanage and wouldn't want to adopt him because of the fact he's probably Muggleborn. Another problem is probably the fact that he's in a boarding school for about three-fourths of the year and wouldn't be able to get to know his adopted family well in the other fourth of the year.
589** Maybe the Wizarding laws forbade that? After all, he'd have to come out to his foster parents, and every extra Muggle aware of the wizarding world is the headache the Ministry would definitely want to avoid. And he couldn't bewitch them because, as an under-age wizard, he couldn't use magic outside Hogwarts.
590** There's also that Tom is attending Hogwarts during ''World War II''. I don't think an orphanage in London would be seeing a lot of parents wanting to adopt at such a time.
591** Alternatively, he hated the orphanage, but he hated the prospect of adoption more. To Voldemort, Hogwarts was his home, and some rich Muggle with a do-gooder complex was no better than the spartan room that he lived in until summer passed. Besides, it's TruthInTelevision that older children have a harder time getting adopted, no matter how charming they are.
592** So why wasn't he adopted before age 11, then? He must have had at least the beginnings of his great charisma and social skills, otherwise the orphanage staff would have taken firmer action against him for being a bully (which some of them, at least, possibly knew and certainly suspected he was).
593** He had a bad reputation and, even if he was charismatic enough, potential parents would probably hear bad things about him from the staff and children. It's unlikely that he'd get a deeper look if he was quiet all the time too. Assuming he got interest before his 'weird' stage, occurred it's impossible to tell what turned them off from adopting him.
594** It can't be ignored that Tom's childhood took place during the Great Depression. In a time where most people were struggling to feed themselves and their biological children, adoption was probably not at an all-time high. I'd be surprised if anyone there got adopted.
595** Who says Riddle had good social skills at the orphanage? Remember his first meeting with Dumbledore? No effort into pretending to not be creepy. Which makes it a little weird that he immediately morphed into a charmer between then and arriving at Hogwarts.
596*** Dumbledore says outright in the book that young Tom got too excited when he met Dumbledore and dropped his masks briefly. Young Tom is a manipulator but he's also cruel and creepy and is stuck dealing with a small isolated group of people so his bad behaviour, however secret, has tainted his reputation. Once he gets a fresh start at Hogwarts he's much more careful so he gets to maintain his good reputation among the staff.
597[[/folder]]
598
599[[folder:Dumbledore's Information Withholding Complex]]
600* Nobody seems to have asked this, so I will: WHY, in the name of flying fruitcake, does Dumbledore NOT TELL the Order that he's asked Snape to kill him? The seventh book would have been many orders of magnitude simpler had Dumbledore even ''once'' mentioned to [=McGonagall=], "Just so you know, I'm dying, and I've asked Snape to kill me, so if/when he does, don't worry, he's still on our side." WHY?
601** Two possible reasons. One, he wants it to be believed that Snape really was on Voldemort's side and that he has betrayed the Order so Voldemort and his followers don't figure out he's still a spy and traitor. Two, he realizes that if anyone knows that he planned his death that isn't under heavy Occlumency shields, they're subject to breaking Snape's cover. Either way, it ultimately was the best plan of action as if he'd told them then, the Order might try and contact Snape, which would put his cover in jeopardy.
602** But there ''is'' a person Dumbledore could have trusted the knowledge of Snape's last mission with; Harry Potter. Because if Voldemort ever kills or mindrapes Harry then the situation is irretrievably fucked anyway.
603** Harry is the worst person to give this information too. Even assuming that he would not let his emotions get the better of him and spill it out in CAPSLOCK at a point, Harry is the only one out of every mentioned characters whose mind is directly linked to Voldemort. He had never gotten the hang of occlumency and so would not be able to prevent Voldemort from getting this info out of his mind. While it is true that it is implied that only Snape had the mad skills to protect his mind from the dark lord, at least other people are protected by the simple fact that they are usually very far away from Voldemort, while the link ensures that Harry is always vulnerable to mind intrusions regardless of the distance involved.
604** It bothers me less that he didn't tell the Order his plan than that he apparently didn't leave any evidence of this situation anywhere. Yes, it was unlikely that Snape would survive the war, but he DID survive the first one as a spy, and with far less experience. On the off chance that he did live to the end, he would have end up imprisoned for life if not have his soul sucked out.
605** What, the Pensieve memories that Harry found aren't good enough evidence for ya? What about the Dumbledore portrait?
606** Given the track record of the Wizarding World in using Pensieves, truth serum, or any of the other ways to find the absolute truth and tell the innocent from the guilty (re: 0 for infinity), it's doubtful anyone would have thought of it.
607** If D told the Order he had to die, it would have been a ton easier for V to get the information which would have sent the whole plan sky-high. Yup, Snape's a hero all right: prepared to have his soul sucked out to save the world.
608** Honestly, I can't imagine Snape living for anything else but to protect Lily's son. Even if he was still alive after Harry killed Voldemort, I'm sure he would've been like, "Well, Lily, I've protected your son, and he's finally killed Voldemort. I don't have any reason to live anymore."
609* I fail to recognize what would have been the positive and material difference (apart from the emotional aspect) though. It's not like Order would have been able to bring Voldemort down on their own anyway. I can actually imagine the events unfold in roughly the same way (provided that, yes, they don't blow Snape's cover prematurely), with the only "difference" being that the final duel between Snape and the other Hogwarts teachers is a thoroughly staged one instead of a serious effort on part of [=McGonagall=]&Co. Now, it ''would'' have made difference if Dumbledore had told the Order about the ''Horcruxes'' instead, but whether for better or for worse only Merlin knows.
610[[/folder]]
611
612[[folder:The best way to get something done is to be a panicking mother]]
613* Snape supposedly made those Unbreakable Vows to Narcissa in order to keep his cover as a Death Eater. Why not just say something like "I'm not going to muck about with the Dark Lord's plans. If the Dark Lord tells me to help Draco, ''then'' I'll do it"?
614** Because Narcissa wants him to protect Draco ''even if Voldemort plans Draco to die''. Snape sincerely likes Narcissa, so he agrees to. It perfectly fits into Dumby's plan: Snape was not expected to kill Dumbledore, but he did it. So Snape became the most trusted Death Eater.
615** Also, perhaps he wanted to burn the bridges. He was reluctant to kill D, but that way he left himself no choice.
616** I'm pretty sure that Snape didn't make this vow until after his conversation with D where D asks Snape to kill him. Given that, why not make the Unbreakable Vow? It wins you points with Narcissa, helps convince Bellatrix that you really are on Team Dark, and doesn't oblige you to do anything you weren't going to do anyway?
617** Points with Narcissa, huh? Once you go pale, you never get stale?
618*** But yes. Though the extent of specifically Snape's effect on it is debatable, one could argue that it is at least in part because of Narcissa's influence that Lucius doesn't join the Battle of Hogwarts. Wouldn't have changed the outcome, to be sure, but not unreasonable to claim that a few more lives of Hogwarts students could have been lost otherwise.
619[[/folder]]
620
621[[folder:Hermione Granger and the Classes from Nowhere]]
622* Ron steals Hermione's OWL results and says she got "ten 'Outstandings' and one 'Exceeds Expectations'". But... doesn't Hermione only take ten classes after having dropped Divination and Muggle Studies in ''Prisoner of Azkaban''? (She takes eight of the same classes Harry takes - all but Divination - as well as Arithmancy and Ancient Runes. You can count up Harry's nine [=OWLs=] on the page prior.) I know Rowling [[WritersCannotDoMath fails at math]], but this is basic counting!
623** Perhaps she took an exam for a subject she didn't attend a class for. I know I took the AP test for human geography and got a 4 out of 5 despite the course not being available and not knowing any of the theories named after people.
624** I concur, having taken an AP English exam without taking the class. (I got a 5 out of 5, but then again, English is a subject that I tend to make seriously. Since I'm [[Tropers/Luigifan the guy]] who has a knack for going around TV Tropes and [[GrammarNazi ruthlessly fixing grammatical errors and spelling mistakes]], that's probably a good indication that I'm not kidding.)
625** JKR is no good at math. She's said it multiple times, so I would chalk this up as a mathematical error. She's made other [[JustForFun/{{Egregious}} egregious]] math mistakes before, like telling people Dumbledore was 150 years old, but having him die at the age of around 115 at the end of this book.
626** My guess is she was allowed to take the Muggle Studies exam based on doing it in third year.
627** Or, you know, because she was muggleborn.
628** This appears to be fixed in the Kindle edition
629** Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Ron just say something jokingly "once you've got your ten Outstanding [=OWLs=]" when the post is coming in. Then when looking at her results, he says she just got one E and doesn't say the number of Outstandings?
630** In UK first edition, Ron explicitly says eleven, 10 and 1. Looks to me as if JKR remembered Hermione took two classes Harry doesn't and forgot the one Harry takes that Hermione doesn't.
631[[/folder]]
632
633
634[[folder:And we're supposed to call Dumbledore a genius?]]
635* Remember how Hermione created a fake locket when they stole the real one from Umbridge? Pretty smart, huh? Remember how Regulus placed a fake locket into the bowl after he stole the real one from the cave? Ok, maybe not too smart, since Voldy would likely sense the difference, but still smart. Now remember how Dumbledore didn't even try to do '''anything''' like that? How planet-shatteringly stupid do you have to be to make a blunder like that?!!! No, it's official now: Voldemort and Dumbledore attended the same self-delusion sessions.
636** Remember how it's revealed that Dumbledore lost his head, as revealed in the final book, and put on the ring? He was highly distracted by the fact that he was dying to do anything of the sort. Once he found out his death was inevitable he took to wearing the ring around. I believe he decided to make it appear to Voldemort that Dumbledore found a Horcrux and assumed it was his only one and showed it off. If Voldemort ever found out about it after the fact, he might be vain enough to believe that Dumbledore would think that would be the only Horcrux.
637** Yep, that's exactly what I mean by self-delusion sessions. For V it's "nobody is gonna find me Horcruxes EVAH", and for D it's "V is vain enough to do the next criminally stupid thing needed for my insane plan to work". As for D's ostensible "distraction", I don't recall anything in the book that backs this idea. Sure, he "lost his head", when he put on the ring, but afterwards he seemed just as imperturbable and cool-headed as ever and completely unruffled by the prospect of his death. As for wearing the ring, give me a break. He didn't plan to face V, and who else was supposed to notice it and report to V? Obviously it was just a trophy or a reminder of his moment of obfuscation.
638** We know why Dumbledore wore the ring -- I don't have my book in front of me, but IIRC, he wore it BECAUSE he'd made such a stupid mistake, and he wanted to keep reminding himself that no matter how brilliant he knew he was, he could still make monstrous mistakes. As for why he didn't make a fake ring to leave in place of the real one... why, exactly, would he bother? IIRC, the ring was in the old Gaunt house when he found it, which probably hadn't seen the light of day in half a century. Voldemort was no more likely to check that old, run-down shack to see if his ring was safe than he was to check the cave for his locket -- because if he'd checked for the latter, I doubt he would have left the fake in place quite undisturbed. Furthermore, we already know Voldemort is incredibly arrogant -- he probably never intended to check on at least those two horcruxes, because he had total faith in his own abilities that his curses would be insurmountable. Besides that, I highly doubt he would have been able to make a passable fake of the Deathly Hallow stone, so I still don't see why he should have bothered. It clearly wasn't something that would be missed any time soon, so why should he have left a fake in its place?
639** 1. '''WE''' know with the benefit of hindsight, that V was a self-deluded idiot who never checked on the Horcruxes. Dumbledore couldn't possibly know that for sure and couldn't rely on that. 2. As I've said a thousand times before, "it might not work" or "it might not be necessary" are NOT valid excuses not to try, especially if it costs you so little. Because any precaution is better than none, and a fake Horcrux is less probable to raise V's alert than no Horcrux at all. Some whelp understood that, but not the all-sage Dumbledore? As for faking the Resurrection Stone, V didn't know or didn't care what it was when he Horcrux...sifed it, and THAT was something D legitimately knew.
640** I think you're giving Regulus too little credit. A fake Horcrux that would fool Voldemort? Yeah, just getting something that he could stand in the same room with without telling the difference would be quite a feat (actually my guess is he hoped for Voldy to never visit the cave until it was too late to act on the switching, since he was helping set up the traps, but whatever). And Regulus had the advantage of having probably been able to examine the Horcrux in advance of making his fake, and of knowing that there ''wasn't'' an alarm (or that if there was it wouldn't alert Voldy to a switch before the trap was set). If Rowling wanted Dumbledore to be able to conjure up a compelling fake on the spot I wouldn't have faulted her, but the fact that he couldn't doesn't bother me. As for Hermione, she was just fooling someone who bought the thing a few days ago because it seemed like an interesting knick knack. Not the same level of difficulty at all, and she probably got the idea from Regulus anyways.
641** I'm not sure why you think not leaving a fake locket behind is any kind of intellectual failure on Dumbledore's part. For one thing, the locket Regulus left behind didn't even seem to have been put there with the intention of actually fooling Voldemort: It lacked the "S" insignia, and, y'know, contained a note that freely admitted it wasn't the real deal anyway. In any case, doesn't it seem likely that Voldemort can tell whether or not a locket contains a piece of his soul or not?
642** Maybe or maybe not. It is still less conspicuous than no locket at all. Of course it would have to look the part and not contain the note.
643** What exactly is the point of leaving behind a fake locket in the first place? In Hermione’s case, she only did it so that Umbridge and Yaxley wouldn’t figure out that they stole it, thus they would have never figure out the TRUE reason as to why the Trio broke into the Ministry. If Hermione hadn’t made the fake locket, then Umbridge and Yaxley would realise that is what they were after the whole time and start to ask questions that undoubtedly would come back to Voldemort who obviously would want to know WHY Harry broke into the Ministry. So in that context, the rationale is very different. As for Regulus, it didn’t really make ANY sense for him to leave behind a fake locket, which had note saying it was fake in the first place. And unlike D and Harry, Regulus thought that V only had the one Horcrux. But Regulus overall logic in this scenario is kinda questionable, since he didn’t leave any instruction to Kreacher as to HOW to destroy the locket, making the whole ordeal much harder. Regulus did one smart thing, yet many stupid things as well, so he's hardly any smarter that D was.
644*** How could he leave an instruction for Kreacher if he most likely didn't know himself? Doesn't seem fair at all to blame Regulus for not thinking about the blood of Basilisk nobody even knew about at the time. And as for "why bother" - well, maybe Voldy wouldn't notice that the locket is fake. I agree that the chance is indeed very slim, but also agree with the attitude that when the stakes are ''that'' high, every little detail might prove decisive in the end, so might be better to give it a (however long) shot than no shot at all, provided there is no additional risk involved.
645
646[[/folder]]
647
648[[folder:Latin]]
649
650* Why don't they teach Latin as a language in Hogwarts? I know, Latin and languages in general are a profane "Muggle" topic, but since many spells' names and wordings are based on Latin, it's just stupid not to teach that language. If Harry had been taught Latin, he would never have used Sectumsempra against Draco.
651** Because you're only supposed to cast spells that you've been taught in class, and you don't need to know what the incantations mean - you just have to say them right. Apparently, they do study Latin if they want to make new spells. As for Sectumsempra, Harry wouldn't have used it if he wasn't a complete idiot, and as [=OotP=] demonstrates, an idiot will always find a way to get himself and those around him in troubles, no matter what you teach or do not teach him.
652** You may be right with all of that, but it's ''still'' stupid not to teach Latin when nearly all spell incantations [[CanisLatinicus are based on that language]].
653** Since there are English spells (stupefy), you obviously don't need to know Latin to craft them. Snape didn't want people to know his spells (he failed) and in the case they were discovered, didn't want people to know he had invented them(he succeeded. Remus Lupin even knew about Sectumsempra but didn't know who invented it or how to repair it's damage, for that matter).
654** I've just had a crazy idea that, maybe, "Ancient Runes" ''is'' Latin, and Harry never took it, because he had better things to do, like train how to catch a golden mosquito.
655*** Runes are a kind of writing system, not a language.
656** Except Hermione's studies in Ancient Runes came in handy in book seven, when she deciphered the Tales of Beedle the Bard. Probably Latin is an elective class available third-year and onward, and because (according to ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban The Prisoner of Azkaban]]'') Harry signed up for the elective classes Ron signed up for, he didn't take Latin. So he wouldn't know it.
657** But Hermione took ''all'' the electives, and she ''didn't'' take Latin.
658** I think we agreed somewhere here that the Hogwarts curriculum is extremely slimmed down to bare necessities due to it being relatively short after the first Wizarding war. Could be very possible that, along with Arts, Music and such Latin or Ancient Greek - or whatever old language you can think of was taken down because a) there were no teachers b) prepare the kids for survival. Fine Arts can wait. Since they DID need to offer something though for an at least somewhat balanced Curriculum, Runes stayed.
659** In the same vein it's possible that outside of war times Hogwarts offers you several old languages (Latin, Greek, Old Arab, Aramaic, Middle English?) as choice course but had to drop this for the time being. Ancient Runes stayed but was a choice course now by itself.
660[[/folder]]
661
662[[folder:Wormtail the Butt Monkey... wait, ''why''?]]
663* Why is Pettigrew/Wormtail treated like a pathetic loser by the Death Eaters? After all, he brought Voldemort back to life and was his only loyal supporter when he was semi-alive. I get the impression that the author dislikes him and so gives him a subordinate position that makes no sense.
664** As V correctly puts it, Wormtail wasn't loyal - he simply had nowhere else to go. Second, apart from V, the only one who is shown actively interacting with him is Snape, who hates him with a passion for obvious reasons. Third, he's still weak, cowardly, and useless (when Snape mockingly offers to seek more dangerous tasks for him, Peter backs off).
665** While they were sitting in Azkaban for 12 years and professing loyalty to the Dark Lord, he was disguised as a rat and being petted by the Weasleys. Of course they'd look down on him.
666*** A handful of them were sitting in Azkaban out of loyalty -- the rest were pretending they were innocent victims.
667** Not to mention that, apart from cuckoos like Bella, few [=DE=] were exactly happy about the return of their beloved leader.
668** Two points worth considering -- one, Voldemort himself plainly considers Pettigrew to be a pathetic loser, and in a group like the Death Eaters, you'd ''better'' follow the boss's lead if you have any wish to maintain your health. Two, the Death Eaters are mostly composed of [[GovernmentConspiracy ruthless political opportunists]] (like Lucius), [[TheFundamentalist deranged fanatics]] (like Bellatrix), [[AxCrazy and bloodthirsty psychos]] (like Greyback) -- none of those groups are liable to have any respect for a snivelling DirtyCoward.
669** As for Snape, of course he hates Wormtail: First, he was part of the group that tormented him during school. Second, he is responsible for Lily's death. (Of course Snape is too, but without Wormtail Voldemort wouldn't have found her.)
670** I for one don't remember any Death Eaters ever showing any issue toward Wormtail other than Snape. Where is this idea even coming from? Bellatrix and Narcissa neither show hostility, sympathy, or friendliness towards him (though both had other things on their minds). Also Barty Crouch Jr. never showed any problems with working with him behind the scenes in Goblet of Fire. If you ask me, the idea that the Death Eaters all treat him with distain seems to be more of a fanon idea.
671* He gave out the vibes of the DirtyCoward absolutely, but he was also a traitor. Because of those unforgiveable traits, Voldemeort treated Pettigrew as dog poo on the botttom of his shoe, so the other Death Eaters likely followed suit.
672[[/folder]]
673
674[[folder:Epic dueling fail]]
675* When Harry confronted Draco in the bathroom, Draco attacks with Crucio. Harry counters with Sectumsempra, a spell he has never used and has no knowledge of. ''Why?'' Even while holding the IdiotBall, no sane person would do such a thing. He doesn't know what it could do! It's as crazy as "This guy bullies me, so I'm going to steal a random chemical from Chemistry and sneak it in his milk!" It could make his brains fall out or something. It seems that logically, he would use Expelliarmus, his SignatureMove. I suppose it's a case of PlotInducedStupidity, but seriously?
676** "Sectumsempra: For your enemies." Harry has been ruminating on this for a while, and it seems a more likely thing to fall back on ("for your enemies") when a political bully who has hated him for six years starts using the illegal equivalent of a mega-Taser on him. Expelliarmus is for anyone who should be disarmed; right then, Draco ''deserved'' whatever Harry expected... It's just that Harry probably didn't expect cursed, unhealing wounds. If I didn't know any Latin, I would expect it to be like Rictusempra (the laughter jinx), but probably more painful, and somehow sssnakey. If I really must find a mundane analogue, it's really more like finding a cabinet of martial arts books and defensive weapons, then using something from the cabinet that looks kind of like a homemade pocket Taser without realizing that it's actually just an exotic delivery mechanism for box jellyfish toxin.
677** That's not the case though. In your example it at least looks like a tazer, with what's actually happening Harry has NO idea what it does other than it is for enemies. What if it wasn't even offensive? What if it made his hair fall out or dropped his pants? Lethality aside, in a crucial situation rather than using a spell he was familiar with, he essentially decided to roll some dice.
678** While Draco's attempted use of an Unforgivable meant that Harry was entirely justified in using any amount of force in return, up to and including killing him on the spot, it is still ''very'' stupid to rely an unknown spell when you have several known ones more than up to the job of disabling Draco or knocking him flat on his ass. At least two of which, "stupefy" and "expulso", are actually faster to cast than "sectumsempra" (three syllables vs. four).
679** Don't forget that he had Sectumsempra from his potions book and that the Spell was written into that by a 16 years old teenager. The suggestions for potions where all correct and helpful and the other spells in the book where harmless pranks or holding spells at worst, nothing you could kill anybody with. Nobody could have expected Sectumsempra to be that bad. As pointed out, you would think that it would be something very mean, maybe even somewhat painful but not almost incurable wounds.
680* I just went and reread that scene, and what I got from it was that Harry ''was'' in a reasonably clear-headed, "dueling" mood - the spells he tries to use are Levicorpus and the Leg-Locker Curse, which are merely "holding spells", you might say - until Malfoy pulls out "Crucio". Remember, Harry's had Crucio used on him before, in one of the most horrendous experiences of his life. He doesn't want to have it used on him again. So he panics and uses a spell that's been at the back of his mind to use on Malfoy for quite some time - and yes, it was stupid, and everyone including Harry thinks so, but he panicked and said the first thing which came to mind, which unfortunately happened to be lethal.
681* Draco and Harry falling on crucio and sectumsempra was stupid on both their parts, what everyone forgets is that Myrtle was in the bathroom, which means the floor was wet, they were in a fight and slipping around, causing them to panic a little. If Draco hadn't decided to attack Potter, who hadn't drawn his wand until then, it could have all been avoided.
682* I think that this was the whole point. That Harry became so emotionnaly close to the prince (metaphorically) at this stage, that he would rely on an unknown spell simply because it was written "for your ennemy", even though it should be obvious to anyone that this was extremely stupid and reckless. That this spell could actually be dark, lethal magic, or that it might have been useless, was unfathomable to Harry; the prince had become something of a reliable big brother to him, and (in his mind) he was neither evil/dark nor useless. This incident, like the various lines in the book about how the HBP was a way better teacher than Snape, etc, serve to set up the dramatic irony of Harry relying and liking the HBP but loathing and hating Snape.
683* Might sound childish, but I actually think that Harry was just intrigued to death when he saw that entry in the book, and seized an opportunity to actually try it out on an enemy. If you want it to be broken down as if the duel took place in slo-mo and Harry had time and opportunity to think his every step through (which I honestly doubt was the case), then it could have gone like this: the moment Draco resorted to an unforgivable course, Harry could have legitimately "mark" him as a real enemy instead of just a heavily misguided opponent, and thus made sured that his conscience would be clear in trying out an "enemy" curse on him. Turned out he had underestimated the power of the curse and/or his own conscience, but that's another story.
684
685[[/folder]]
686
687[[folder:Casting the spell with no training]]
688
689* Not just why did Harry cast Sectumsempra when he confronted Draco in the bathroom, but ''how'' did he cast it? He had only seen the spell written before then, and had never cast it before and only seen the magic word to cast it, not the accompanying wand movements. Remember how hilariously it went wrong when he mispronounced "Diagon Alley" in the Chamber of Secrets? Remember how Ron couldn't levitate a feather without the proper swish and flick wand motion in Sorcerer's Stone? How was Harry able to cast the spell properly the first time without knowing exactly how to pronounce it or how to move his wand?
690** Not all spells require specific wand motions. The entry in Sectumsempra didn't mention any wand motions, unlike Levicorpus, so likely it didn't need any specific one.
691** So a spell that causes massive physical damage and injury requires fewer somatic components than a spell to levitate small objects? Then my question is "why"?
692** Because it is magic? Objectively and from what we know, there is no reason why a spell made to create cursed gaping stab wounds SHOULD have a more complex process than one designed to levitate people by their ankle. And from what we've seen, the only requirement for many spells is to know the incantation. This is what is asked of them during OWL. And Harry mistook two spells (I think it was the enlarging spell instead of the one which changes colors) simply because he mixed up the incantations, hinting that spells do not need special flourish to work. There are of course spells which have higer requirements (AK requires 'great magic power',vanishing spells need focus, etc and patronus is supposedly difficult for example), but on the whole, knowing the incantation appear to be enough for most combat spells. Stupefy and impedimenta are combat spells which seemed easy enough to learn for a reasonably talented wizard like Harry. When one says someone is a powerful wizard, it often translates to "has experimented/read more and knows more magic than most".
693** Because, as a combat spell it ''must'' be as easily and quickly executable as possible. Like firing a gun. Also, it was created by Severus Snape, pretty much the only adult in that universe who is ''not'' a raging idiot and has a non-wizard upbringing. Stands to reason he understands the notion of effectiveness and perfected the spell accordingly.
694** If combat spells were easier and simpler to learn, then the entire Dumbledore's Army subplot from the previous book should have lasted for about two weeks. Demonstrate the spells, everyone pulls it off instantly and flawlessly because the spells are so easy, and they're fully prepped to defend themselves against the dark arts.
695** It's very easy to fire a gun. It's much harder to hit your mark, especially in combat, and avoid being shot in return. So they were learning not just to cast spells, but to ''use'' them. And again, this particular spell was made by Snape, who, unlike most other wizards, is smart.
696** It's worth noting that in both of Op's examples, the problem with the spell was PRONUNCIATION, not wand work. When Ron's failing to levitate the feather: "It's Levi-O-sa, not Levio-SA." He was doing the wand right, but saying it wrong. With the floo powder, Harry mumbled up his words and said the wrong thing. I can't be certain, but is there an example in the book where wand work impacted how a spell performed? It seems it should since the "swish and flick" was important in 1st year charms, but I don't recall ever seeing it matter.
697** And Harry had read the spell ages ago, and had been wanting to use it for a while. So I wouldn't be surprised if he practiced the movements and everything else without casting it - just so he'd be ready when he had to use it.
698[[/folder]]
699
700[[folder:Problems with the "other Minister"]]
701* In the first chapter, we get confirmation that the Muggle government of the U.K is in fact (at least at the level of Prime Minister) aware of the magical world. Are they just okay with this? Have none of them decided that the idea of letting another government administer on U.K. soil is ludicrous? In all the nameless Prime Minister's time, he never made any effort to investigate at all? Even if the intelligence agency might call him crazy, it should be possible for anyone who got to the position of Prime Minister to think of some way to prove that a group of individuals managed to enter and leave his office totally undetected. For that matter, the Prime Minister doesn't feel any pressing need to confront Shacklebolt on his divided loyalties?
702** Didn't you get an impression that the UK Prime Minister was a huge coward who nearly wet himself every time his "guests" arrived? Not that it was entirely [[KilledToUpholdTheMasquerade unfounded]], of course.
703** Fudge says it himself - he ''could'' tell the rest of the government (or the general population) about it, but he'd just be seen as insane. (Need exact quote from Fudge, which I don't recall ATM.)
704** Something along the lines of the Daily Prophet article describing Fudge as saying that there's no real risk of the PM telling anyone, followed by the quote, "and besides, if he did, who'd believe him?"
705** There's the above one then:
706---> "But then," bleated the Prime Minister, "why hasn't a former Prime Minister warned me - ?"\
707At this, Fudge had actually laughed.\
708"My dear Prime Minister, are ''you'' ever going to tell anybody?"\
709[...] The Prime Minister had stood there, quite motionless, and realized that he would never, as long as he lived, dare mention this encounter to a living soul, for who in the wide world would believe him?
710** A Prime Minister keeping quiet about what he'd seen is plausible. A Prime Minister being able to launch a nation-wide manhunt for a dangerous fugitive ''nobody else has heard of'' -- not the police, not the press, not the Home Office, not the tax bureau -- whose supposed "crime" is listed as an accidental explosion in Muggle records, without anyone asking him why? Not unless Britain forgot about due process.
711** Strategically applied Memory Charms and magically forged paperwork would solve all of that. All they have to do is keep an ear open for any muggles asking too many questions about this Sirius Black character and dispatch an Obliviator to make the necessary memory alterations.
712** Also I had my fun imagining Churchill or Thatcher on the place of this "other minister".
713** If you do the math, Thatcher was the one who tried to throw him out of the window.
714[[/folder]]
715
716[[folder:What was Snape attempting to do?]]
717* So. Flitwick shows up to tell Snape there are Death Eaters in the school, and that Snape must come with him. At this point Snape presumably figures out what 'plan' Draco had been working on all year. So Snape...stuns Flitwick? Uh, why? What did that accomplish?
718** Uhm, it accomplished the plan's successful completion, which Flitwick could've interfered with, as well as cemented Snape's image of a loyal DE, which he obviously had to uphold.
719** Stunning Flitwick also ensures none of the Death Eaters will ''kill'' Flitwick, and that Snape himself won't have to fight the Charms teacher.
720[[/folder]]
721
722[[folder:Snape caught]]
723* Then, on top of that, he basically gets caught doing that by Hermione and Luna, who have been specifically tasked to watch him. Luckily, they have been handed the most epic IdiotBall in history, so they believe him.
724** For that matter, as long as he's stunning people for no reason, why doesn't he stun Hermione and Luna?
725** Because they can help repel the attack, and, unlike Flitwick, letting them go wouldn't look too suspicious.
726** A theory here might be that the Felix Felicis they took just saved their lives by making them complete morons who didn't challenge Snape. Doesn't help Snape's inane behaviour, though.
727** OTOH, it's unlikely Snape would have killed them away. He might have stunned them, but it seems odd that the Felix Felicis would have cared. Surely them lying stunned in the dungeon is safer then participating in the battle upstairs.
728** On the third hand, Flitwick does eventually help save the day, and perhaps the Felix Felicis can see far enough into the future to know that, and his life was in danger, so it got Luna and Hermione to actually save his life, and no one realized. (He is very small and elderly, perhaps Snape's stun was a little too strong. Or perhaps he really did have some sort of attack and pass out.)
729** Felicis doesn't see into the future. All it does is make a person aware of which actions they will take will bring luck to the goal they wish the accomplish as they think over their potential options. It doesn't tell how, nor does it alter probability in of itself.
730** Of course, memory modification does exist, so there's the possibility they very quickly lost a duel against Snape, and just ''remember'' thinking they had let Snape run off. It seems a little irrational for Snape to do that when he was on the way to kill DD, but it's possible he thought he could kill DD ''secretly'', and he needed to keep his reputation intact.
731** Hermione is more trustful towards the teachers than Harry is, and she isn't as prejudiced as he is towards Snape. So if Snape says that Flitwick fainted and they should watch over him, Hermione will do what she's told. It's only after Dumbledore's death that she realises. Hindsight is a great thing.
732[[/folder]]
733
734[[folder:What was Draco attempting to do?]]
735* Draco's master plan was to sneak a handful of [=DEs=] into Hogwarts and...then what? We've already seen in [=OotP=], that Dumbledore could curbstomp a dozen of them without breaking a sweat, and now they are coming to his castle, where there will be at least three more powerful wizards ([=McGonagall=], Flitwick and Slughorn), not to mention the Aurors and the Order who could arrive later, and where the very walls might literally be friends and helping hands to the defenders (it's an enchanted castle after all). I guess they relied on Snape as their "fifth column" and to an extent it worked as he stunned Flitwick, but still, were they really hoping to overpower DD on his home turf? I doubt Draco or even Snape could predict that DD would be in such a debilitated state. It would make sense if the [=DEs=] attempted to take the students hostage, but they didn't.
736** I always presumed he'd been monitoring security at Hogwarts and found it was either just the teachers, or occasionally the Order. He wants to get DD on his own so he brings in a load of [=DEs=] to cut off any back-up and/or prevent him and DD from being interrupted. Also [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow Draco doesn't know that DD knows that Draco's the one trying to kill him]] so he assumes he has the element of surprise and DD wouldn't expect a 16-year-old to try and kill him. Or the fight lures DD out and while he's distracted by [=DEs=] Draco jumps him.
737** His plan was to wait for Dumbledore to leave, send up the dark mark when he's coming back and then call a bunch of Death Eaters to keep anyone besides Dumbledore from getting to where the mark was. Besides Dumbledore genuinely not seeing it coming though, it wasn't a good plan that only worked because Dumbledore let it. Other things gone better Dumbledore would have stomped all the death eaters and then patched the hole in security that let them in.
738[[/folder]]
739
740[[folder: Good luck With That!]]
741* OK, I can think of a lot of reasons why Felix Felicis isn't used in everyday life. It might be very, very expensive, might take quite a while, might be very difficult, needing a very good potionmaster to prepare it etc. I get all this. But Dumbledore is searching for the horcruxes. AS in, he's doing the most important thing that can be done against fighting the Dark Lord, something he should put all effort he can in. So, why not use the Felix Felicis? Expensive? He's the freaking headmaster, he can afford it. Time? He's been searching for horcruxes for YEARS, he had time. Difficulty? He's got THE (or one of the) Best Potionmasters in his school, who's able to brew several of the most difficult potions (Wolfsbane potion, for example). So, why in pluperfect hell would he not make Snape prepare it for him, so he could find and get his hands on the horcruxes? The thing is, Felix Felicis is a Deus-ex-machinaesque Gamebreaker which Rowling shouldn't have used - it creates too much FridgeLogic.
742** What's to say he didn't use it to find the Ring and the Locket? As for the Cup and the Diadem, well, FF doesn't actually warp reality (I think) - it only guides the drinker in the direction where he'd be able to capitalize on the events that happen anyway (like Aragog dying). In other words, everything you've done under the potion, you should, in theory, be able to do without it. Thus if there was no conceivable way for DD to learn about those two Horcruxes, then FF couldn't help. As for why he didn't do it earlier, perhaps the magic of FF stretches back in time, proactively urging you to drink the stuff when the vantage opportunity is about to present itself.
743** They went on a mission to retrieve a horcrux. He was damn sure there wouldin be a lot of danger and a lot of things to go wrong, so why not drink some FF and give some to Harry?
744** How do you know he didn't drink it? After all, his insane plan worked, didn't it? As for Harry, well that stuff was some mighty strong mojo, maybe you can only drink it once a year or something, or else you become addicted. Alternatively, it was in line with DD's Modus Operandi "Make Harry rely on me as little as possible, so when I'm gone, he doesn't become lost and has at least a measly chance of succeeding by himself".
745** His performance during that night didn't seem quite lucky to me. He got pretty much fucked up.
746** Why? Ultimately everything he had in mind worked out: he died as planned, Severus escaped, Harry survived, and they got the Horcrux and didn't get killed in the process. It wasn't FF's fault the locket was fake.
747** He relived his worst memories, lost blood and had his Castle invaded by Death Eaters. He lost against Malfoy and he lost the ownership of the Elder Wand. He wanted and needed Snape to kill him, but not a horde of[=DEs=]in Hogwarts. And he wanted the wand to remain ownerless, not to go to an unstable scared teenager.
748** Well, the Potion's effect is temporary. Perhaps it wore off by the time they returned to the Castle. And worst memories and blood thing were pretty much unavoidable even with the best of luck.
749** Moreover, they were ''self-inflicted'', not chance at all. The potion only influences the odds in one's favour, it can't subvert things that were never a matter of luck in the first place.
750** Slughorn explains why Felix Felicis is not a practical tool when he’s introducing the potion in class. Other than taking half a year to brew a tiny vial that's deadly poisonous if not made correctly, he says it’s horribly toxic in anything but minuscule, very-spaced-out doses (remember, Harry only takes a small sip from the already small vial and he has enough left to share between 5 people) and that repeated doses eventually leave you with the suicidal overconfidence bit even after the luck boost vanishes, which basically amounts to permanent mental damage. According to himself, even being a potions master capable of brewing it at will, he’s only dared take about two spoonfuls his whole life.
751** Quibble: He doesn't say "deadly poisonous," he says "''disastrous.''" Considering that a potion to cure boils, when brewed incorrectly, covers a person in boils (book 1, Harry's first potion lesson) it only takes a little imagination to see how brewing a good-luck potion incorrectly would leave things utterly and irrevocably fucked up.
752** Also, take a step back and look at what you're saying. You're saying he should have used the potion when searching for all seven Horcruxes (not that he knew how many there were until near the end), and when going to retrieve each Horcrux, and... basically if he followed your logic he'd be chugging luck potions all the damn time. Which he can't do. There's LOTS of important things which he had to succeed at in order to have a prayer of beating Voldemort, and if he can't do each of those things without the help of a potion which is pretty much safe to use for a couple hours a year, he's not gonna win. The luck potion is officially TooAwesomeToUse.
753** Felix Felicis is like the magical version of morphine. Mighty lovely, yes, but any benefits go out the window if you become dependent on the stuff.
754** Dumbledore was dying a slow death at the time, and Felix Felicis works by bringing about the best outcome for its drinker, not necessarily what's best for others. He might have feared that it would try and ''break the curse'', leading him off on some wild-goose chase for a cure, rather than advancing his larger agenda of stopping Voldemort.
755** But it wouldn't, because it is clearly noted that FF helps to accomplish whatever you wish to do. If finding a cure along that was possible at all, it might have helped there too, but not to the detriment of a determined goal. Harry accidentally breaking up Ginny and Dean as a side effect, because that's what he subconsciously wants, but it does not interfere with his main objective. Had it interfered, it likely wouldn't have happened.
756** The side effects of FF are feelings that the taker can do no wrong, they become arrogant and assured that they are always right. Dumbledore already had those problems in his normal everyday life, to the point where he spent a couple months planning to take over the world for it's own good in his early adulthood. He himself admits he tends to be arrogant and when he makes mistakes they tend to be huge simply due to the power and scale he's working on. Quite frankly, he can't risk experiencing FF because it would bring out the worst in him. Plus he's got the brains and power to not need help.
757** Considering how FF facilitates even subconscious desires (e.g. breaking up Ginny and Dean), Dumbledore had an ''excellent'' reason not to use it: he was dying a slow, painful death. Subconsciously, part of him probably ''very much'' wants to be lying in St. Mungo's with a massive dose of magical morphine coursing through his veins, and he can't afford to risk Felix gravitating to ''that'' outcome instead of his conscious aims.
758[[/folder]]
759
760[[folder:New Potion]]
761
762* Speaking of Felix...why is the first time that it's ever been mentioned or used in the Harry Potter universe? Haven't there been times and places where it would have been beneficial for someone attempting a crazy or dangerous scheme to have the benefit of good luck? For example: during the Sorcerer's Stone, why wouldn't Quirrell have made a batch to guarantee success when he attempted to retrieve the Stone? Maybe he was too poor a wizard to have made it, but why wouldn't Voldemort have instructed him to brew some in preparation for his assault on the Stone's protection? Or what about during the two periods of time when the Chamber of Secrets was opened and students were dying? Why wouldn't the staff at Hogwarts have a small cache of Felix potions for use in just such an occurrence? "[=McGonagall=], since Flitwick drank the potion last time, you need to do it this time to find the Chamber so that our kids don't die." Why didn't Sirius Black brew himself up some in order to infiltrate the school in order to capture Wormtail? Why didn't Not!Moody make himself some in order to influence the outcome of the Tri-Wizard tournament without having to overtly cheat to rig the game in Harry's favor...or even just drink some with the goal of spiriting Harry undetected out of the castle? Why didn't a Death Eater or someone on Voldey's team drink some Felix before attempting to infiltrate the Ministry of Magic...even if they weren't expecting to do battle with the Order of the Phoenix or Dumbledore's Army, this is one of the most secure magical fortresses in Britain, and if anything went wrong it might have tipped off the Ministry to the continued activities of the Death Eaters. Why didn't Voldemort himself drink some Felix before setting up the defenses around his Horcruxes so that there was no way that anyone ever could have gotten at them? I will not buy "it's too tricky to make" as a justification, since the same thing was said about Polyjuice and it becomes a regular plot point in three separate Harry Potter books. Something so insanely useful as liquid luck would have been mass produced by now.
763** Slughorn claims that liquid luck is a highly regulated substance for this exact reason, and that taking the potion in regular doses leads to overconfidence and reckless behavior, hence why it would be too dangerous to be mass-produced. (Harry looks up the recipe in his textbook later in the book, noting the long and complicated list of ingredients and the six-month-long brewing time required to make it.)
764** To the Question why Coldemort hadn't any Felix for the Philosophers Stone: Quirrel was originally the Muggle Studies Teacher who just got into teaching Defense against the Dark arts, he was most likely simply not the master level Potions Master it would had needed to make some of it plus he would have to get the substances, which would have been very very difficult and he could hardly steal from Snape as Snape would have suspected him right away and to have to potion ready by June it had to be started in December and Voldemort wouldn't want his Host to die. Not because he cared but because he had to find a new one in that case, one that had access to Hogwarts.
765[[/folder]]
766
767[[folder:Felix vs Felix]]
768* What if Voldemort and Dumbledore each drank an equal measure of Felix before going into battle with each other? Who would luck favor then?
769** Both of them. They'd both get an equal amount of good luck, which would effectively cancel out against each other.
770[[/folder]]
771
772[[folder: I will be very sad, but God forbid I do something about it!]]
773* When, in the flashback, Riddle comes to DD to apply for the DADA position, the latter says that "if half the things I've heard about you were true, I'd be very sad." So, DD is aware that Riddle is likely involved in some gruesome stuff, and it's hardly loitering or puppy-kicking. Hell, Riddle's very appearance strongly implies participation in Dark Arts. Well, in that case...why didn't he detain Riddle for investigation?
774** DD has ''rumours’' of bad stuff, not evidence. And in any case, he's a school headmaster, not a cop. He wouldn't even have authority to "detain" Riddle and if he tried it would have come to a fight.
775** 1) Which is why I used the word "detain", not "arrest". 2) An inconvenient fact is that DD is also the Head of the Wizengamot. He's the freaking Supreme Judge! I'm not that well-versed in the legal department and don't know if they officially have authority to seize suspects, but come on! Do you honestly think anybody would object? Hell, even if DD hadn't been appointed by that moment, he's first and foremost the goddamn Dumbledore! The one ''thrice'' offered the post of the Minister of Magic. He ''is'' the authority. 3) Yes, Riddle would've most likely resisted, so what? DD was much stronger than he'd ever been. If he was concerned about starting a fight inside the school, he could've let him leave and then engage him on the grounds.
776** "Do you honestly think anybody would object?" Uh, yeah, they probably would. If the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court performed a citizen's arrest based on a ''suspicion'' of some shady dealings I don't see that going over well. Especially if the person in question is smart enough to cover their tracks and not leave verifiable evidence behind. Plus, Dumbledore at that point was still holding out hope that Riddle can redeem himself, which is why he made that little speech instead of just refusing his application. He's essentially saying "I'm not mad, [[DisappointedInYou I'm just very disappointed]]" in the hope that it will shame him into turning his back on the Dark Arts. Trying to "detain" him would only have cemented Riddle's resolve to continue his Dark Arts studies.
777** Well then, good thing the story took place not in US, but in that wretched stuck-in-the-Dark-Ages pocket dimension, where legal procedures do not exist (I'll let pass your claim that they do in US), and people are extremely apathetic. Nobody cared about Sirius, or Hagrid, or Stan Shunpike, when they were thrown behind bars. As for the rest, by the end of their talk it was pretty clear that V was not going to repent, not that I see a reason for him to do so, since DD is not a paragon of any kind for him. So, let him continue his studies in the cell - he'd need a hobby to pass time.
778** Hagrid was a half-giant, part of a discriminated minority and even so he wasn’t put in jail (if you’re referring to him been blame for the deaths of student in Chamber of Secrets), the second time he was in jail probably in preventive custody he does was release once charges where cleared, Sirius and Shunpike situations happened during the war (or very soon after it ends) and even in real life due process is generally omitted when a country is at war. In Sirius case, besides, he was considered mad and, again, in real life a person can end up in a mental institution without trial (and wizards doesn’t seem to have a place for the criminally insane), but yes, let’s say Sirius case is truly irregular. Is there another case in-universe that make you think it will be socially accepted and legal for a person, even the equivalent of Chief Justice of a country, to arrest and convict a teenager base only in rumors? And if that’s the case, what stopped the Ministry to do exactly that with Harry during Book Five?
779[[/folder]]
780
781[[folder: Quidditch Tryouts]]
782* Harry had tryouts for Quidditch. Fair enough, most of the last team had finished the school. but why the hell did he have to hold tryouts for the players he already had? He had Ron as goalkeeper. Why should [=McLaggen=] be tried out as goalkeeper, when he already had one? In Book V it's stated that there are tryouts for goalkeeper, as Wood left, and the rest of the team should just be there to see how the new one fits in. So, why?
783** So that nobody could accuse Harry of being nepotistic and keeping an inferior player just because they are friends.
784** Because there might be someone out there who is better than Ron. When he told Katie that he wouldn't be holding tryouts for her position and just keep her, she reprimanded him for this reason.
785** But there were no tryouts to replace Harry or someone else till then. They had tryouts only for a goalkeeper in the V book, not for the players they already had.
786** Harry has a different coaching style.
787** Harry ''was'' originally going to hold tryouts only for the players he lacked. Katie Bell, the only one of the original team left, who was going to automatically get a spot, basically convinced him to have tryouts for ''all'' the players, in the name of fairness and of having the best possible team, saying that "Good teams have been ruined before now because captains just kept playing the old faces, or letting in their friends."
788** The Head of House chooses the captain of the team, so Harry was automatically on the team (and what position would he play other than Seeker?). In V Book, he replaced the Keeper because Wood had graduated, but the team was otherwise intact. In VI, it was only him and Katie left, so he had to rebuild from the ground up. Katie likely didn't call him on this in the previous book because he was new to coaching, so she figured the less stress he was under, the better (plus they DID have a really good team). With him having settled into the job and now having the chance to do it right, she insisted he hold her to the same standard.
789** Nitpick, but in Book Five, Angelina Johnson was Captain, not Harry. So Katie didn't reprimand him then because he wasn't calling the shots at that point.
790** Yeah, that's why there were only Keeper tryouts in the previous book. Either because that's the way Angelina preferred to do things or because it was just one player. But in this book, Angelina, Alicia and the twins have all left as well.
791[[/folder]]
792
793[[folder: The Unforgivable Curses]]
794* It has been mentioned in earlier books that the Unforgivable Curses are very powerful, but in particular the Killing Curse requires a fair amount of hate behind it (which is hand-waved as the reason Harry wasn't able to use it against Bellatrix in Book 5. However, Snape is able to use the Killing Curse against Dumbledore, to whom he is later revealed to be loyal. This raises a few questions:
795** Is the Killing Curse considered "okay" if it's a mercy kill?
796*** I'd say no. Not even because of the complex RealLife euthanasia moral issues, but because in wizarding world opportunities to effectively pass your own will as the will of the other person are '''massive'''.
797** It is clear in the next book that Snape didn't hate Dumbledore, so where did the hate-mojo come from, and would it still work if he drew on, say, his hate for Voldemort, or even his own self-loathing?
798** If the Killing Curse were to be used as a mercy kill, likely the person who cast it would need indisputable proof that the killed person wanted/had to die. They would need witnesses, the circumstances for why they needed a mercy kill, etc. Otherwise it could be mistaken for a straight up murder, so it's probably not used a mercy kill very often, because it'd be easy to assume murder.
799** Snape is a former Death Eater, so likely he's had practice *shudder* with casting the Killing Curse and knows how to channel hatred whether for the victim or overall. And likely there was at least ''some'' amount of hatred directed at Dumbledore, after all, he did sound pretty angry about 1. being ordered to kill him in the first place 2. Albus's plans for letting Harry die.
800** ^This. Dumbledore had already told Snape that he intended for Harry, the boy who Snape had spent a large part of his life risking death to protect, who was the last living reminder of the woman he loved, who (for all his flaws) was a teenage boy, to die a horrible death in the hope that maybe, ''maybe'' it would be enough to weaken Voldemort to allow the Dark Lord to be killed. I'm pretty sure that Snape didn't have to dig deep for some hatred of the man.
801** Yeah, being loyal to DD isn't the same thing as liking the guy. Snape only joined him for Lily's sake and deeply resented him for some of his plans, not to mention the sheer levels of anger he showed at DD for giving Harry special preference and for being fool enough to try on the ring.
802** Well, it's never said that your hatred has to specifically be for the person that the curse is directed at. I don't see any reason why Snape couldn't just picture Voldemort or James Potter and say the words to get the same result. Otherwise, how could Crouch Jr. have cast the killing curse on a spider? Crouch wasn't exactly playing with a full deck, but I seriously doubt that he had a deep personal hatred for that one particular spider.
803** Not even an issue. "Professor Moody" states in Book 4 that the Killing Curse requires a strong amount of ''magic'' behind it, not hatred (it's about experience and power, not the emotion you're feeling at the time). Bellatrix states in Book 5 that the ''Cruciatus Curse'' requires a strong amount of hatred and genuine desire to cause pain behind it. ''Nowhere'' does ''anyone'' say that the Killing Curse requires a strong amount of hatred behind it.
804** ^Exactly. You’re confusing Crucio with Aveda Kadabra. It is establish, though, that in order to work AK requires that you do mean it, e.i., you do want the person to die, which not necessary mean you hate the person, in Snape’s case he could just want DD to die whether out of pity or for the plan in general to work
805** It was never said that is hatred what is required for use an Unforgivable Curse, only to ''mean'' it. Snape ''meant'' to kill Dumbledore and he's skilled anyway. So he could easily perform the spell.
806** As said, it was Cruciatus Curse, not the killing curse that was the one with true intent. However, it wasn't hatred, but a clear desire to cause someone pain and some sadism in enjoying inflicting pain on someone.
807[[/folder]]
808
809[[folder: Sybill Trelawny and the chamber of bevvy]]
810* Trelawny crashed on Draco in the Room of Requirements, when she was trying to hide her liquor. Why would she do that? I'd understand if it was the previous year under Umbridge, but everybody in Hogwarts already knew that she's an alcoholic, and DD was not going to fire her because of that. Hell, who was she hiding it ''from''? Does Hogwarts conduct booze raids on the faculty?
811** She was probably ashamed of it and/or had convinced herself that ''nobody'' knew she was drinking. "I'm not an alcoholic, I just need a drink every now and then, but I'd better just hide these so nobody'll find them and get the wrong idea." Sadly, it's pretty common for real-life alcoholics to use similar tactics and justifications for them.
812** As for the booze raids, well, maybe they do. It's not unheard of for schools to have a strict ethical code that holds their teachers to a higher standard than the rest of society. I'd imagine it's especially necessary in a boarding school like Hogwarts where all the school employees are essentially "on duty" at all times. A little bit of alcohol kept in a locked cabinet in the professor's personal chambers might be okay, but hoarding large amounts of booze is highly unprofessional. Dumbledore still probably wouldn't fire her, but he would probably insist that she take a leave of absence from teaching, and Trelawney was already ashamed at having to share her students with Firenze.
813** While Dumbledore has no intention of turning her out, ''she'' doesn't know that. After she was fired by Umbridge, she's probably more paranoid about her fate. She drinks and then she hides the bottles, because she's paranoid about her office being searched. Remember that the previous year, her family lineage was put under scrutiny by Umbridge.
814** And maybe she liked to drink in the room itself. Perhaps drinking in the room was more comforting for her than in her office - where she might be afraid of someone walking in on her?
815[[/folder]]
816
817[[folder: Errr... "freak hurricane"?]]
818* Maybe it's just because I live in the very hurricane-prone southern US, but a hurricane in the West Country? How the hell did the Ministry, and the Muggle UK government, pull off telling everyone the giant attack in the West Country was a ''hurricane''? Hurricanes are pretty large, the rest of England (never mind Ireland) would have been affected in some way. Granted, having lived in England I'm well aware that the very outer bands might not make much of a difference weather-wise, but the winds and rain get worse the closer you are to the centre. And "freak"? Surely in the 1990s the UK government would have been able to track hurricanes all the way from their initial formation in the Caribbean Sea and transformation into an extra tropical cyclone headed for the British Isles via the Gulf Stream? The UK and Ireland are much too far north for hurricanes to spontaneously form just off the coast; even with the Gulf Stream the water is too cold. Note that the "hurricane" likely hit in June or early July; that's not unheard of, but quite unusual even in the US states bordering the Gulf of Mexico. So how the ''hell'' did the Ministry of Magic, plus the Muggle UK government, pass off attacks by magical creatures as a very unusual weather event that surely would have attracted attention from weather scientists around the world? Perhaps a more accurate term would have been 'derecho' which can certainly have hurricane-like effects, but is a series of very strong thunderstorms that moves quickly and produces numerous tornadoes.
819** Two words: Michael Fish. I'm guessing JK was probably riffing off his most famous mistake, and ever reliable appearance on BBC blooper shows making it.
820** And if you recall, the PM ''is'' getting stick about it at the start - for not making all the adequate preparations etc. The public knows the story doesn't add up, which is why the PM is a scapegoat for it.
821[[/folder]]
822
823[[folder: Middle name "Marvolo"?]]
824* Why does Merope Gaunt give her son the middle name “Marvolo” after her father—the father who abused and tortured her for eighteen years, called her a “Squib” regularly, had no problem dragging her by the throat, hunted down the man she loved, terrorized her to the point she couldn’t even do simple spells such as Reparo, and she abandoned without a second thought the moment he was carted off to prison?
825** Major StockholmSyndrome, combined with Merope wanting her son's name to reflect his magical heritage somehow.
826** This is also a 19-year-old who's just been left freezing, pregnant, and heartbroken in London after being..."abandoned" by a man she loved - of course she's not going to be thinking at all rationally. Chances are she was facing a lot of regrets during this time - "I shouldn't have ever left home, I wish I could just have my father and brother back," and so on and so forth, and if she were in a state of mind to have realized how bad an idea this was in hindsight, then my question would've been why she still ended up dying.
827** Perhaps she also wanted her son to be able to find his family someday. And the name ended up being a good clue for him in the end.
828[[/folder]]
829
830[[folder: Hey. Hey Snape! You can take points!]]
831* After Harry Sectumsempras Draco in the bathroom, Snape chews him out, dumps a load of detentions on his ass, gloats about "fourth place Gryffindor"...and then walks off. If he ''really'' wanted Gryffindor in 4th place, why didn't he just take some 500 points off of Harry, ''especially'' since he has a very good excuse and first years can lose 150 points between them just for being out of bed after lights out?
832** Fourth place in ''the Quidditch league'', not the House Cup.
833** Because he ''didn't'' want Gryffindor in the 4th place, or rather he couldn't care less about all that juvenile bullshit with so much bigger things at stake.
834*** Since when is Snape not unbelievably petty and cruel at every opportunity?
835*** Since Harry stopped caring about House points himself. Harry pretty made it clear at the end of the previous book that he absolutely did not care about House points or the House Cup being won anymore. He's moved beyond such shallow desires so I turn Snape has moved onto more fitting punishments.
836*** This implies that for Snape the whole House Cup was all about Harry, which I somehow don't buy (the Cup predates Harry, after all), though I wouldn't be surprised if that's [[ItsAllAboutMe exactly what Harry's thinking]].
837[[/folder]]
838
839[[folder: Shouldn't wordless magic be a separate course?]]
840* Why are they first being trained in wordless magic only in DADA? Shouldn't this be something they cover in all their classes, starting off with simple magic they learned first year?
841** Because DATDA is the only subject where casting silently actually means life and death for certain? Sure, being able to fetch things from across the room without having to speak Latin is nice, but it's hardly essential, most adult wizards don't seem to bother with non-verbal spells the majority of the time anyway. And remember, Snape was in the position in order to train Harry as much as he could before the end of the year when everything would hit the fan regardless of what else happened (Dumbledore was already dying so Voldemort would naturally become more bold once the only person he feared was dead). Non-verbal spells may actually be seventh year material and Snape just bumped it up for convenience to his overall goals, the teachers make their own curriculums after all.
842** Actually it was said that shortly after Snape, [=McGonagall=] and Flitwik started demanding non-verbal magic in their classes as well, so it's not something exclusive to DADA. The point is, I think, that such a difficult but useful technique should've been taught gradually from the first year.
843** Maybe they didn't want younger students being able to use non verbal spells to cause mischief? Maybe they expected sixth and seventh years, who are closer to being legally adults, to show better judgment?
844[[/folder]]
845
846[[folder: At least Bella's afterlife will be screwed up.]]
847* Slughorn states that one splits the soul by committing murder. So what happens to wizards and witches who ''have'' murdered but didn't make Horcruxes, like Bella? Are their souls split too? Do they get trapped as hellish babies in King's Cross like Voldemort?
848** Their soul has been split, but the fragmented part has not been removed from their body, ergo their soul is technically still together. Voldemort got trapped as the baby-thing because he had too little soul left, the parts having been destroyed. If the murderer has not made a Horcrux, he still has all his soul, and will still have all of it in the afterlife once he/she dies. Whether there's a further effect on their afterlife state based on if their soul is split or without splits can not be known without more canon information.
849** There's also another spell you have to cast separating your soul fragment and putting it into a Horcrux.
850[[/folder]]
851
852[[folder: How dare you not break the prophecy Lucius!]]
853* So why exactly is Lucius Malfoy blamed for losing the prophecy by Lord Voldemort? I know he was the leader of the dozen Death Eaters, but he wasn't even in possession of it when it broke. Neville was the one who accidentally dropped it and he only did due to the dancing jinx placed on him by Dolohov. Yet Lucius seems to receive all the blame from Voldemort and is promptly demoted when he returns from Azkaban, yet Antonin Dolohov gets off scot free. What gives?
854** Because it never should've reached that point. It was supposed to be the easiest operation ever - wait for the kids, ambush them in the atrium, overwhelm, take hostages, walk Harry to the hall, make him take the prophecy. And yet Lucius managed to fuck it up by doing it backwards.
855** Also, letting the prophecy be destroyed was just one reason for his disgrace. The other was trying to use the diary horcrux as a tool for his own political agenda, getting it destroyed.
856*** Voldy certainly kept the diary thing in mind while punishing Lucius, but you'd think he didn't spell it clear for Malfoy because the less attention Horcruxes attract (even among Death Eaters themselves), the better.
857** Malfoy was in charge and the leader for this mission. He failed to organize and lead effectively enough the death eaters he had at his disposal (partly because they are sociopathic morons who lost sight of the goal at the slightest provocation, and not a properly trained professional strike team, but part of the blame falls on him still), even though the opposition consisted in 6 teenagers, with 3 having never been in a real battle before, and who were unable to disarm people 6 months ago, he had the element of surprise, outnumbered them 2 to one at least, and the field advantage. He should have had DE positionned at every exit to surround them, stunned everyone but harry (to avoid him breaking the prophecy when he falls) the very moment the prophecy was taken from the shelf, before they had any time to react, extorted the prophecy from Harry against the lives of his friends, then disapparated to give it to Voldemort while letting the others clean up the defenceless kids. Instead, he revealed himself and had all the DE in front of him (which allowed them to react and then run away) and mocked him, wasting several minutes which would be crucial later as that gave the order the time to arrive,let them talk and plan between themsleves because those idiots were too busy laughing their ass off, was unable to contain/avoid Bellatrix' outburst (giving Harry a clear measure of how much getting the prophecy intact was critical to them and how good a card the little ball in his hand was). Then, while I admit they managed to catch them eventually, he took too long. He did a terrible job at trying to catch the kids as quickly as possible (he could have laid many traps around the first room before Harry even arrived just in case). All in all, he was supposed to be a field leader and a badass tactician, but nothing was accomplished that was not due to the massive difference in skills and numbers (i.e. his actual input was 0) and he failed. And worst than that, he got caught, proving to everyone that Lucius really is not all that even though he is supposed to be one of the favored DE. Besides, it is the same in most projects in the Industry. You have a manager who is supposed to lead and be responsible for the completion of the project. if the project goes fubar or fails, he is the first to take the blame.
858*** And did he ''really'' have to tell Harry everything about prophecies and Voldemort's previous attempts to retrieve them? IdiotBall indeed even if Lucius planned to kill Harry right after securing the prophecy (did he, by the way?).
859[[/folder]]
860
861[[folder: Forgetting? About Memory Modification]]
862* So not only did poor Gilderoy Lockhart lose his memory due to Ron's faulty wand, but there are entire teams of wizards ready to work memory charms on Muggles at a moment's notice. And presumably, those memory modifications can be selective and surgical and not leave the recipient of the spell a gibbering moron. So why is it that Slughorn, having a memory of giving Tom Riddle information about Horcruxes, supplies Dumbledore with an obviously fake and edited memory rather than erasing his own memory? Or if for some reason you can't erase your own memory, have one of his former Slug Club members do it for him? When Dumbledore asks, he could have been like, "Tell You-Know-Who about Horcruxes? Are you mad, Dumbledore?! I would never do such a thing."
863** Remember that Slughorn is constantly on the run from V. I guess it is precisely because of that very talk - he's afraid V would want to silence him. But if he's going to be on the run, he needs to remember the reason WHY he's on the run to keep him motivated.
864** Not to mention, memory charms can be broken, as proven in book four. Voldermort drove Bertha Jorkins mad in his attempts to break the one Barty Crouch had placed on her.
865** Why assume Slughorn came up with the fake memory with magic? He could have subconsciously suppressed the truth of what he'd told Riddle out of plain old-fashioned mundane guilt; likewise, he may have been so ashamed when his memories were initially viewed that what he provided was the memory of him fantasizing about what he ''should'' have said to Tom. Certainly he remembered there was ''something'' ugly he was suppressing, else he'd have just acted confused when Harry continued to ask him about it, not nervous or irate.
866[[/folder]]
867
868
869[[folder: Guess They Don't Teach Handwriting Recognition At Hogwarts]]
870* Harry and Hermione have both spent 5 years as Professor Snape's students, during which time they have seen his handwriting hundreds of times on the blackboard, on letters he's sent Harry summoning him to his chambers for detentions and on papers they've submitted and had returned graded and on vials he's labeled in his classroom. Rowling even describes the letter "D" on one of Harry's returned papers with amusing detail. And yet, during sixth year, Harry spends hours reading the Half-Blood Prince's potions book without once recognizing Snape's handwriting. Why not?
871** Handwriting changes with age and after strong psychological stress, which Snape had suffered a ton of after he graduated. The notes were barely readable, and only Harry was studying them for any considerable length - Hermie refused to. And Harry, who's not the sharpest tool in the box at the best of times, was under constant stress himself.
872** I'm a packrat, and I have my old college notes from 20 years ago in a box in my basement. My handwriting is not noticeably different after that span of time.
873** It still happens to some people.
874** Not everyone has distinctive handwriting, it could simply be that Snape has a relatively generic writing style and that without proper training in handwriting analysis it is not terribly distinctive. Or it could be, as pointed out above, that Snape's handwriting has changed over the years. It would certainly make sense that when he became a teacher that he'd made his writing more elaborate and neater, to avoid students making fun of him or to stop students asking him what the instructions were.
875** Snape has distinctive handwriting. The handwriting of the nasty comments he puts on some of Harry's papers in Goblet and Phoenix is given more description than some characters. And Harry has also seen another example of Snape's handwriting from the time period when he was making his notes in the Potions textbook; in "Snape's Worst Memory," the memory actually begins with Snape taking his OWL exam, and Harry looks right at Snape's face, which is less than an inch from his test paper, which Harry specifically notices was filled very, very full of tiny writing. He saw Snape's face directly next to the same handwriting which he noticed enough to specifically observe how much of it there was, and he's been obsessively studying that same handwriting all year. Shoulda made a connection.
876*** The way the scene is described, Harry was "standing" in front of memory-Snape's desk while he watched him writing. The handwriting would have been upside-down.
877** I have very distinctive handwriting, as well - very rounded letters with stars dotting the 'i's - but I didn't start writing that way until just a couple years ago in high school.
878** Writing on a chalkboard is ''very'' different from writing with a feather quill. Moreover, chalk lends itself better to script, while nib-pens (the closest things to quills this troper has ever tried) work better with cursive.
879** And does Harry seem like the type to recognise someone's handwriting?
880** Harry ''can'' recognize handwriting in an ordinary situation. When he receives various packages, he can tell instantly who's sent them to him because he recognizes Hagrid, Ron, and Hermione's handwritings. But Harry doesn't even consider that Snape is the half-blood prince, because he doesn't ''want'' Snape to be the half-blood prince. If it ever came into his mind, he would have instantly dismissed it as impossible.
881** Maybe he's better at recognising Hermione's handwriting because he's always reading from her notes to help his homework? Or maybe Snape's handwriting changed a bit from when he was a teenager.
882** This troper has changed his handwriting multiple times since first three grades, learning the "proper" handwriting, through block fonts (with all letters in words, it's quite hard to write that way fast, but I got good at it), to hybrids between it (usually the first letter of the word was block font, and continuing with cursive) and I tried to experiment with it. I almost don't recognize MY OWN handwriting from the seventh grade, which is about sixteen years ago. And to be clear, I didn't go through any psycho trauma, I just liked the change.
883[[/folder]]
884
885[[folder: Imperius Unbreakable]]
886
887* Given the plethora of magical ways to rob someone of free will in the Harry Potter series -- the Imperius Curse, love potions, magical artifacts entering underaged wizards into binding contracts to compete in a lethal competition without their knowledge or consent -- can you use the Imperius Curse to force someone to swear an Unbreakable Vow? And if so, why not use forced Unbreakable Vows as an alternative to the expense of running a magical prison? "I vow to never use an Unforgiveable Curse again for as long as I live." Have a nice day, Ms. Lestrange. "I vow never to steal again." Goodbye, Mr. Fletcher. "I vow to renounce my allegiance to the Dark Lord and attack him on sight if I ever see him again." You take care of yourself, Mr. Malfoy.
888** If it's possible, then it's probably not done for the same reason captured Death Eaters don't have all their murderous memories Oblivated out of them to make them super-nice: because it's ''highly'' unethical. At least the Dementor's Kiss is all or nothing.
889** And that makes the Kiss (or Azkaban) better... how? Don't you think most of the captured criminals would prefer such treatment to either of those alternatives? Maybe not Bellatrix, but she's crazy.
890** It doesn't really make it ''better'', more like ''less worse'', if one views the Kiss as the death penalty, long term memory-Oblivation as forceful lobotomy, and a forced Vow as, say, TheLudovicoTechnique, but that's besides the point (and gets political). From in-canon knowledge, it's known an Imperius Curse can be fought off, even if it takes the subject some time, maybe even years. It could be possible that overcoming the Imperius Curse might take the Vow with it, since it's enough of a change of mentality that the spell can't keep it binding. Or it might require a sound mind to be cast in the first place. Or, as initially suggested, it's possible but not allowed for the same reason the Imperius Curse is banned.
891** One would be wrong, I'm afraid. "... by that time Sirius will be worse than dead." (DD, about Black's impending Kiss in ''[[Literature/HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban The Prisoner of Azkaban]]''). And since this world has a confirmed afterlife, the Kiss is definitely much worse than death penalty, rendering the victim DeaderThanDead. Obliviation, even profound, doesn't seem to impar on one's mental capacities, if it's done right, as proven by Lockheart (such as they were) or Hermie's parents (hopefully) - it's amnesia, not lobotomy (I invite tropers with expertise in psychology to advise on detrimental effects of amnesia, but I doubt they can be worse than dementor exposure). And the Vow would be more akin to an ExplosiveLeash - harsh, sure, but again, much more humane than what they already use. I'm not sure, why the OP thought the use of Imperius was necessary - I would just offer the treatment as an alternative to life imprisonment or death penalty.
892** I thought Hermione used Confundo on her parents, not Obliviate, hence why their memories could be returned?
893** Whenever the question about why so and so didn't Imperius/Veritaserum someone in order to accomplish their goals is brought up, the standard defense is that the method in question can be resisted or is strictly short term or something. But if you can Imperius someone into making an Unbreakable, then it opens up a whole new set of questions and FridgeHorror. What about making someone your slave for all time by Imperius-ing them into Vowing to obey you forever to the best of their ability?
894** Since Imperio gives the caster complete domination over the victim, and the Imperio Defence is legit, apparently the victim's actions while under the spell no longer count as their own any more than a puppet's ones. So if you try that trick it would be ''you'' who's making the Vow.
895** Also, I asked this specifically about the government wanting to eliminate the expense of running a magical prison that needs to be populated by dangerous and frightening guards. Whether or not a criminal WANTED to Vow not to commit the crime that landed them in hot water, it would save the government hassle by forcing them to do it, if they were able. Not all prisoners at Azkaban are lifers, after all. Morfin Gaunt was let out after he'd served his sentence. Recidivism is a thing, but not if you can force your criminals to Vow never to do their crimes again.
896** You'd be basically saddling them with a death sentence for a repeat offence, and without a trial at that. If their crime is not punishable by death in the first place, this would violate the spirit of the law. Hence why I can only see it as a voluntary alternative to an already issued death sentence.
897** If used at all such a technique should be used ''only'' on the lifers, not on those who will eventually be released. Some people commit crimes out of impulse, and putting a forced Vow on someone with questionable control of their actions wouldn't prevent a repeat crime if they honestly forget about their Vow. Repeatedly jailing them is a hassle, but far more humane than killing someone for shoplifting a second time.
898** And has the Ministry done anything over the course of seven books to make you think they wouldn't do such a thing?
899** Pre-OOTP they gave Harry a reprieve for accidentally inflating his aunt, despite having said before a repeat offense would mean losing his wand. Even post-OOTP most of them voted against him being punished for his in-Muggle-territory Patronus.
900** I know you HAVE to fulfill your Unbreakable Vow. But can you be released from it? Suppose the Dark Lord had recalled Draco for whatever reason. Could Narcissa have let Snape out of his vow to kill Dumbledore?
901*** She probably wouldn't have to. Snape only promised to complete Draco's task if her son should ''fail'' in his mission. If the mission is cancelled by the one who'd issued it, there's no longer anything for Draco to "fail" at.
902** Here's some fun head-canon - maybe it can't be done because the person casting the Imperius Curse is the one who'd have to control them into making the vow, and therefore it's them who ends up bound to it? It would be a fun idea for a story; someone thinks they've Imperius'd another into making an Unbreakable Vow, but it turns out it's them who are bound by the magic.
903** Actually with the Unbreakable Vow comes another question - Why wouldn't the UV be part of the Hogwarts final tests? They need to pass O.W.L.S and/or N.E.W.T.s (don't catch my word, it's been a while since I have read the books and I don't remember every detail about the final exams), so why not make them swear an UV that would include something like: "I swear not to use my magic to cause malicious actions against those who do not deserve it. I will not use Unforgivable curses if my intention of their usage is evil-doing (as... you know, there were some examples where heroes needed to use it for the GOOD cause - Hermione in Gringotts bank, so it was morally OK), I swear to never use AK, etc. etc." Now, you had your students take the UV, and there are no more Dark Lords. And if there are, it means they were expelled from the school and didn't take the UV. But they are alone, or surrounded by only A FEW others (who were also expelled at some point), not an army. They are handful and can't really do much damage to the magical world. Imagine Voldemort fighting everyone by himself or maybe with two to four henchmen max. What exactly would they do before being subdued by the aurors and everybody who opposed them, and the rest of wizards at least didn't get involved in the situation out of fear of the UV... And please don't start about the law-breaking with this or that it stomps on the rights of free will. If you just look at it from the broad perspective, then you eradicated the crime. If the law itself and a right to have free will (to kill somebody, to torture somebody in cold blood, to force somebody to do your biddings) is stronger for you then assurance that nobody will harm you or your loved ones, well...
904[[/folder]]
905
906[[folder: Cursed Jobs and Teacher Turnover]]
907* It's confirmed in this book that Voldemort applied for the open position of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher and was rejected by Dumbledore. Voldemort then cursed the job so that no one could hold onto it for more than a year without meeting some mishap or at least getting fired or resigning. According to [[http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/12/02/harrypottertimeline2/ this timeline]], that was in 1957. Events The Deathly Hollows occurred in the year 1997, at which point Voldemort was killed and the curse on the DADA job broken. Does that mean that in the 40 years between Voldemort's cursing the job and the breaking of the curse, Hogwarts went through one DADA teacher every single year without anyone on the staff researching how to break the curse? Even if that meant, after Voldemort's death, that it would take Dumbledore himself stepping down as Headmaster and teaching at the position for two years running? What about just having the Ministry change the name of the course and eliminate the DADA position? Call it Abjuration or something. It seems to me that losing a wizard each and every year is not the kind of thing a school wants to have on its track record.\
908Also, if Voldemort is capable of cursing a job and anyone who has it with bad luck and dying/being fired/resigning, why not curse the Headmaster position at Hogwarts? Dumbledore is out on his ear in less than a year and Voldy can reapply? If he can't curse the Headmaster position because Dumbledore is more powerful than Voldy, then see my above question about Dumbledore taking the DADA position for two years.
909** Perhaps it was of those rare occasions when magic in HP was treated less like a voice-activated multitool and more like, you know, magic - something irrational, arcane, only semi-manageable and emotion-driven. V strived to be the DADA teacher, he saw the position as an important mean to an end. So when DD refused him, his most prime desire, fuelled by envious rage, was to [[IfICantHaveYou deny anyone else that what he couldn't have for himself]], and that desire manifested itself as the curse.
910*** I've always seen it as something like that myself, after all if there were spells that could be deliberately worked like that, no matter how complex then it would open too many plot holes to contain.
911** The long-standing Curse on the DADA post, when combined with the confirmation in HBP that none of a wizard or witches' spells survive their death, would suggest that the entire Wizarding World in general and Dumbledore in particular should have known beyond (much of) a shadow of a doubt that Voldemort didn't die in Godric's Hollow. Of course, it could be put down to Wizardkind as a whole not wanting to face the prospect of He Who Must Not Be Named coming back, and in Dumbledore's case he could well have realized what the continuation of the curse meant straight away and been prompted to ask the question of how, exactly, Voldemort could have made himself unkillable, but the fact remains that once the curse continued to cripple the DADA post at Hogwarts after the end of the First Wizarding War, it should have been common knowledge that Voldemort was still out there somewhere. Hell, the surviving Death Eaters should have been obsessed with the DADA post from the first anniversary of Voldemort's 'death', and yet nobody seems to have connected the two issues.
912[[/folder]]
913
914[[folder: Ownership of Buckbeak]]
915* Even if Harry had wanted him, how could Sirius have been able to bequeath to him ownership of Buckbeak? Wouldn't Buckbeak still legally belong to Hagrid? No one specifically passed ownership of him onto Sirius - Harry and Hermione only brought the two of them together to allow Sirius to escape, it was against Hagrid's knowledge, and they were trying to save Buckbeak's life as well.
916** After Hagrid and Sirius joined the Order of the Phoenix, I'm sure Dumbledore would've explained the matter to him so Hagrid wouldn't think Sirius was a murderer and then let him keep Buckbeak.
917** Buckbeak wasn't Hagrid's pet. He and his flock (?) herd (?) either belonged to Hogwarts or lived on Hogwarts grounds and saw Hagrid as a friend. After leaving with Sirius, Sirius apparently assumed possession of him in order to keep him safe and subsequently gave him to Harry.
918[[/folder]]
919
920[[folder: Sneaking suspicions]]
921* I've just finished reading this book, and was wondering...Why does Harry spend five of the first six books in this series suspecting ''someone'' of doing ''something'', even when he has little to no proof, and oftentimes ends up being wrong? Really, in short order...
922** In ''Sorcerer's Stone'', we have him suspecting Snape of trying to steal the eponymous stone, for himself and later for Voldemort. He ends up being wrong, as Quirrell ended up being behind it all along.
923** In ''Chamber of Secrets'', he suspects himself Malfoy, and even ''Hagrid'', one of his closest friends, of opening the Chamber of Secrets. It turns out to be Ginny Weasley, being controlled by a memory of Tom Riddle.
924** In ''Prisoner of Azkaban'' (admittedly, this one's a bit more understandable), he thinks Sirius Black was responsible for betraying his parents to Voldemort, but also goes out of his way to involve himself in the situation and try and confront Black on his own, instead of leaving it to more highly-trained adults to track him down and get him back in prison. Yet again, he winds up being wrong, with Peter Pettigrew being the wrongdoer instead of Black.
925** In ''Goblet of Fire'', he suspects many different characters of being Death Eaters, for no real reason, once again does some investigative work on his own and just like before, the culprit ends up being someone no one would ever have suspected.
926** Finally, in ''Half-Blood Prince'', he thinks Malfoy has become a Death Eater and is planning something dark and ominous, but he only begins to house this suspicion after he sees Malfoy walking alone down a street in Diagon Alley, which for some reason tells Harry that he should be followed and eavesdropped upon. Yes, he turns out being right about Malfoy, but in this case, it still doesn't make much sense why he got involved in the first place, all due to seeing Malfoy walking down a street by himself.
927:: And I know it could be argued that Harry has sort of a right to be involved in these affairs, seeing as they all concern Voldemort in some way or another, but he goes about involving himself against the wishes of many others and rarely, if ever, thinks of going to a trusted adult with his suspicion, to the point where I'm surprised he expected Dumbledore to believe him at all about Malfoy in ''Half-Blood Prince'', even ''without'' the underlying reasons for it.
928** Harry being suspicious is part character trait (like Hermione being smart or Ron being lazy), part ProperlyParanoid, and part story [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWSoYCetG6A tradition]]. He's often not wrong that there ''is'' something villainous going on at the school, and since each year ends with him get trapped with the culprit somehow, it might pay for him to try to figure out who the culprit is ahead of time. And from a real life stand point, Rowling likes having twists about who the villain is. It's rather difficult to have a villain twist without setting up a red herring suspect first.
929* You're...kind of misrepresenting Harry's "lack of evidence", lets go over each book.
930** "Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone". He suspects Snape because the man comes off as ObviouslyEvil. He dresses all in black, constantly has an unpleasant expression on his face, has a menacing demeanor, (seemingly) tried to kill Harry, and was overheard threatening Quirrell, in addition to trying to get a peek at the Stone's defenses in secret. Everything Snape did made him look suspicious, and Quirrell himself even agrees Snape "seems the part" due to swooping around "like an overgrown bat". No on WOULD suspect the seemingly meek and fearful Quirrell, as Quirrell himself points out.
931** "Chamber of Secrets". If memory serves, Malfoy's father Lucius was already confirmed to have been one of Voldemort's supporters, Draco himself was the first person onscreen demonstrating Blood Prejudice AND openly supported killing off the Muggleborns, making himself look very suspicious. Hagrid has an...unhealthy obsession with dangerous creatures and has a history of trying to befriend them, which the Monster of Slytherin certainly is. Plus the "evidence" against Hagrid was shown to Harry by someone who has a LITTLE bit of a history successfully manipulating people. He sees Hagrid did indeed have a dangerous creature in the castle around the time a student died, so even though he knows the big guy wouldn't hurt anyway on purpose, a tragic accident due to naivety isn't out of the question. He never suspected Ginny because she never did anything to draw attention to herself regarding the Monster. As for suspecting himself...I can't comment on that because I unfortunately don't remember.
932** "Prisoner of Azkaban". A...LITTLE bit more understandable? More than a little, actually. Harry was TOLD by a couple of wizards that Sirus was Voldemort's right hand man, and then overhears Mr and Mrs Weasley talking about how Sirus wants to kill Harry and return Voldemort to power and THEN overhears two ReasonableAuthorityFigures, one of his best friends, and the Minister of Magic himself talking about how Sirius was James and Lily's best friend and betrayed them to Voldemort. He had every reason in the world to suspect Sirius, as EVERYONE ELSE in the wizarding world did, and none at all to suspect Pettigrew, who as far as everyone knows, is dead.
933** "Goblet of Fire". I don't remember who Harry suspected and you didn't list any names...but if we're talking about Snape or Karkaroff (Both of whom were Death Eaters) Bagman (Who was on trial for being one) or Malfoy again (Chamber of Secrets), Harry actually had pretty good reason for his suspicions toward them and not Fake!Moody who had even DUMBLEDORE fooled, and everyone else to boot.
934** "Half-Blood Prince". Draco Malfoy has spent the past five openly supporting Voldemort, spouting Pureblood mania, and wishing death on Muggles and Muggleborns, by this point anything he does is suspicious, ESPECIALLY if he's alone, as that means he has no witnesses. In each of these books, Harry was suspicious of someone who did everything possible to make themselves look suspicious, and the one who was actually guilty was someone who, in all fairness to Harry, no one else suspected either.
935[[/folder]]
936
937[[folder: Want to keep the kid out of trouble? Keep a good eye on him!]]
938* It's clear that Dumbledore saw something in Tom that he didn't like when he first saw him...Of course, no one would've been able to guess what he'd ultimately grow into, but if Dumbledore really wants this boy to stay on the right path, why does he still treat him like they're sworn enemies after they first meet? Tom was just a little kid at this point, and a good deal of the things he'd done had happened because of where he was raised. Instead of keeping watch over him suspiciously, ever trusting him, and giving him ominous warnings like he'd already branded him a criminal, why didn't Dumbledore give Tom some actual good advice on how to behave better? Do something to show him some compassion? Not let him go to visit Diagon Alley himself for the first time? Just because someone's bad as a kid doesn't mean they can't grow up to be a better person, yet Dumbledore constantly seemed to treat Riddle with distrust and dislike instead of showing him how to act differently.
939** Where does Dumbledore treat Riddle like an enemy? Was this in the movies? If so, just take it that anything you see in the movies is not canon. Dumbledore himself tells Harry that he chose to give Riddle a chance because he might genuinely have turned over a new leaf. That's why he didn't tell the other teachers about Riddle's history or their first meaning.
940** And if you recall, Albus was planning to take Tom to Diagon Alley himself and help him get all the books and equipment - but Tom insists on doing it himself. So the next time they see each other is as teacher and student at school - and he says that Tom never mentioned the incident and kept his distance from him afterwards. At the time he just thought Tom was embarrassed at how he'd behaved, and was avoiding him for that reason.
941** One thing Dumbledore did that proved he wanted to show young Tom he could trust Dumbledore was by not telling any of the teachers his feelings about Tom or how he was suspected of using his underage magic to torture and harm his fellow orphans. Dumbledore never treated him as if they were enemies, just that he knew what Tom had likely done in the past and that it wouldn't be acceptable at Hogwarts.
942[[/folder]]
943
944[[folder: Tom Riddle and underage magic]]
945* The murder of his father and grandparents was covered perfectly thanks to crappy magic detection system that apparently allows underage wizards to cast murder spells as long as they do with a wand that belongs to an adult. Tom even brainwashed his uncle to make him think he murdered the Riddles and all, but it's stated that in order to loot and charm him, Tom first had to Stupefy him using his own wand, an action that was done obviously outside of Hogwarts on a summer vacation. It is unclear which wand was used to tamper with Morfin's memories, but the fact stays: at least one spell was cast by a sixteen year old wizard using his wand. Wasn't that supposed to alert the underage detection system? Double alarming if the brainwashing was also performed with Tom's own wand, or even if it was done with Morfin's. If anybody bothered to check the last spells used by Morfin's wand, the VERY LAST ONE in that case would be the false memory charm. If Tom still used his own wand for that, then that would be two suspicious spells cast by underage wizard(s) in a roughly the same area, depending on how good the location detection works. Of course people like Dumbledore would figure everything out even without that information available, but didn't anybody in the ministry bother at all? One little area, triple homicide, at least one spell cast by an underage wizard, false memory charm being the last spell cast either by Morfin's wand or someone underage, and all in one day? Did the ministry just brush that off?
946** The Trace detects magic cast in the area, not who did the casting. They would've caught a whiff of magic being cast in the Little Hangleton area (if the Trace even followed Riddle), but reading Morfin's wand would probably only come up with the three murders. This might be a little early in the timeline to say this, but there definitely was more the Ministry could've done but didn't.
947** Dumbledore seems to think that due to Morfin's confession as well as the fact that he had previously attacked the same muggle the ministry didn't investigate further. They probably did find it odd that underage magic was detected in the area, but the evidence and Morfin's record were against him. Also it doesn't seem like the Gaunts were very well respected, even among other pure-blood supremacists. The wizarding world as a whole were probably eager to get rid of him.
948** Maybe the trace as we know it wasn't in effect at the time or was different - and got changed sometime later.
949** From what we've seen, the Ministry appears to have been even less professional and institutionalized in the past. Dumbledore mentions in BOOK 5 that it is highly unusual anyway to have a formal hearing for an underage use of magic. In the second book, Harry got off with only a letter, and Fudge simply waved it in his 3rd year. Also, the ministry teams handling a murder would probably be very different from the one handling underage magic, and most underage magic would probably be very minor and would easily fly under the radar. In other words, simple administrative lags, or lack of drive could be enough to explain why no one made the connection between an act of underage magic detected somewhere where a triple homicide happened. Especially since times were peaceful at the times (in Britain). Probably Riddle got a letter telling him to take care next time and a slap on the wrist. It would actually be very easy to explain his presence, in case someone did interrogate him: "Poor charming orphan, abandoned by his parents, and utterly brillant prefect student Tom Riddle wanted to see if the tom Riddle sr of the village could have been his father. Too bad the well-known lunatic, stark-ravingly mad, and prejudiced wizard who confessed everything in copious details, in possession of the wand used for the murders, and with a clearly identified motive decided to strike at this very moment. Poor boy, persecuted by fate *sniff*".Besides, I fail to imagine the Ministry expanding the efforts to investigate further a clear-cut case with an orgy of evidence, when the victims were only some muggles in the country side anyway.
950** Assuming the trace existed back then, all the ministry would have known was that a minor wizard was present in the vicinity when the murder took place. This was not a crime in and of itself. The ministry knew the Gaunts lived nearby but only investigated when the deaths of the Riddles was discovered. After all, the Ministry knows whenever any wizarding parent does wizardry in their home around their minor children and don't bother with them.
951[[/folder]]
952
953[[folder: Proof that Malfoy is a Death Eater]]
954* Why didn't Harry ''try'' and get proof that Malfoy's a Death Eater? Was it so hard to stun Malfoy with a nonverbal spell and pull up his left sleeve to find the Dark Mark? He (Harry) knows that every Death Eater has the Dark Mark on their left forearm, he saw Snape show his Dark Mark to Fudge back in the fourth book.
955** Harry doesn't get the hang of nonverbal spells until he discovers Levicorpus, and even after that he's still rusty with them and prefers speaking out loud. As for Stunning Malfoy, Draco has been spending most of his free time in the Room of Requirement (which Harry doesn't learn he is until halfway through the book) and until the restroom incident he hadn't managed to find Draco alone and unprotected.
956** He still didn't try and get proof that Malfoy was a Death Eater. Guess he hadn't learned that ''his'' word doesn't mean that people are going to believe him, due to all the negative press he received due to barely anyone believing that Voldemort had returned in the previous book.
957** ...Did you not read what was posted above? He was ''trying'' to find proof the entire year. He couldn't stun Malfoy because they were only around each other with other people nearby, and Harry couldn't find him otherwise because he was in the Room of Requirement. The only time he ''did'' manage to corner Draco alone, he went and used Sectumsempra on him, and look how that turned out.
958** Harry was trying to find proof...by catching Malfoy in the act. The evidence he has so far is that Malfoy appears to be working on something, and he's trying to find out what it is so he has something to present his case and ensure he's believed. Harry is not a CowboyCop who goes around torturing people for information, so I don't see him ambushing Malfoy in the hallway with a stunner just so he can look at his arm or whatever. And even if he doesn't have a Dark Mark, he's still up to ''something'' judging from what Harry had been able to guess or overhear. They call stuff like this 'fruit from the poisonous tree' - information obtained illegally or some other way. And as another section noted above, Harry has previously suspected someone and they've turned out to be innocent - so he instead wants to get some actual proof to back up his theory instead of going on a witch hunt.
959*** Is the "fruit from the poisonous tree" concept even a thing in Wizarding Law though?
960[[/folder]]
961
962[[folder:The Dursleys "Mistreatment"]]
963* During Dumbledore's visit to the Dursley residence, he makes a comment about "the appalling damage you have inflicted upon the unfortunate boy (Dudley) sitting between you". What's he mean by this? Is it a comment on the kid's weight, or something beyond that? And how would it be worse than the treatment of Harry? Bearing in mind, God knows why poor Harry isn't left as an emotional wreck from his Aunt and Uncle's abuse.
964** Not just overfeeding him, but also spoiling him and encouraging his bullying. Dudley's treatment of Harry was treated as acceptable by them, and they also enrolled him in a school where the students are given clubbed sticks to whack each other with (lol). In fact, a few times they ''asked'' Dudley to hit Harry with it. So half the reason why Dudley became a jerk was because of them, but thankfully he began to grow mature enough on his own.
965*** Exactly, it's also why the Dementor was able to affect Dudley so badly the previous year, on some level he knows he's messed up even if he's not fully aware of the extent.
966** In the military they have an expression "shit rolls downhill". So Dudley is the way he is because Vernon and Petunia are awful parents. Note that it took an intervention from the school nurse to get them to put Dudley on a diet. Petunia overfeeds him and when he's dangerously overweight insists he's "big boned" or it's "puppy fat". So she's indulging her son's unhealthy habits and convincing him there's nothing wrong with him. If he risks diabetes or a heart attack before he's in his thirties then yes that would be considered "appalling damage".
967** Since he was abused for the first ten years of his life, Harry rarely took anything he had for granted, nor did he expect the world to ever make any leeway for him, even with his status as the Boy-Who-Lived. Compare this to Dudley, who, being spoiled rotten and given everything he ever wanted, had his worst traits enabled and even encouraged, leaving him with barely anything resembling a moral compass and ill-equipped to deal with the real world.
968[[/folder]]
969
970[[folder:The whole Slughorn plot makes little sense.]]
971All I know is based on the movies and other bits I've read, but not by the books themselves. The whole Slughorn memory plot just makes no sense to me - there's a whole list of issues I'm having with it:
972
973* Slughorn
974** Why did Slughorn manipulate his memories? If he wanted to hide that he answered Tom's question about how to create a horcrux, why didn't he manipulate his memory to hide the whole question to begin with?
975** Is it illegal to know such things? If not, why did he go to such lengths to hide them, anyways? Dumbledore seems to know about them, Slughorn knows, it's documented in at least one book and Dumbledore had no problem explaining what a horcrux was to Harry. So what's the point in hiding the memory?
976** How did he manipulate the memory in the first place?
977** How did anyone know to extract that specific memory? Did they make a 'brain-google-search' for "horcrux" and the result 'Slughorn tells Riddle about horcruxes' showed up? But did anyone even think about horcruxes back when the memory was retrieved?
978*** Was it taken by force? If not, why would Slughorn ever go to all the trouble to alter the memory, and then deliver a false memory, instead of just saying "I don't know, he never mentioned anything to me"? Or just give them an irrelevant, different memory with Tom? If he gave it away freely, he just called attention to something he tried to keep secret...
979* Dumbledore
980** What did Dumbledore even hope to get out of this memory hunt? He already must've known that Voldemort used at least one horcrux, but he couldn't have possibly believed that Tom would mention the actual number or that the number was the reason for Slughorn's memory manipulation: First of all, if Dumbledore truly believed Tom to have any ounce of intelligence, Tom would never have mentioned a number. Even if he had, it would've been a false number to mislead Slughorn - after all, Slughorn was a witness! It'd endanger his immortality to leave Slughorn with that knowledge! (Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if Voldemort actually had 2-3 more hocruxes, and everything was just a gambit?). No, Dumbledore should've realized that Slughorn just wanted to hide that he told Tom about horcruxes, that's all he could possibly expect from that hidden memory. But of course, Tom is stupid enough to actually mention how many he wanted to make... good job, Voldemort.
981** Why such an elaborate, prone-to-failure plan with Harry? I'd have invited Slughorn to a cup of tea: "Horace, I know that you told Tom about horcruxes. He's back and will kill us all soon - ESPECIALLY you - because he knows that you know about his horcruxes. Do us and yourself a favor and tell us everything that he told you, so that we can kill him off. I won't mention that you informed us to anyone - promise."
982*** Slughorn: "I don't know anything."
983*** Dumbledore: "Oh? Well we'll find out. That tea you just drank had a few drops of a certain serum..." - instead, he just hoped that Harry would get the information, even if he actually wouldn't have and only did because of the liquid luck. His plan would've failed.
984** Why did Dumbledore ever believe that whatever Tom said wasn't a lie/trick? Would anyone really believe that he only had 7? Going with the assumption that Tom was clever enough to NOT reveal his plans (he was not), I'ld assume that he was lying to Slughorn and expect a few horcruxes more than the number mentioned.
985* Tom Riddle
986** You are planing to become immortal - so, horcruxes seem like a good way. What's the '''only''' weakness of a horcrux? Being destroyed. But how can someone destroy something he doesn't know about? So, why would Voldemort ever tell Slughorn the actual number of horcruxes he planned? To make sure it'd work? But Slughorn couldn't possibly know if it worked or not, and only had to guess.
987** You did it. A handful of horcruxes, coming back from the almost-dead... and yet Slughorn still lives. Literally the one person who knows how many aces you have in your sleeve, that could ruin everything for you - the only relevant witness - isn't on top of your people-to-get-rid-of list?
988*** You know, if you're going to state at the beginning that you haven't read the books, then you really shouldn't post such a long and detailed entry, anyway, because a lot of this was explained there, as well as in the movie itself. The point of Slughorn altering and hiding the memory was because he felt ashamed of what it had led Voldemort to do. That's the kind of person Slughorn is, and Tom knew it - very meek and unassuming, helping those he thinks would return the favor in the end. We're never shown how Dumbledore found out about this memory in the first place, but he mentions in the film that during his time at school, Tom was very close to Slughorn in particular, so after doing some research with other memories, he went to Slughorn and asked if Tom had ever asked him anything about Horcruxes. To hopefully throw suspicion off of him, Slughorn used magic to alter the memory and make it look as though he didn't know anything more about it, then gave it to Dumbledore willingly. And, well, in the film, Slughorn states that the Death Eaters have been trying to recruit him frequently as of later, which was why he had gone into hiding in the first place, "never staying anywhere more than a week".
989** IIRC, Dumbledore states somewhere that the number of Horcruxes is not unlimited and that Tom has actually already pushed it to the limit - hence accidental creation of "Horcrux" in Harry. So I guess they assume it's unlikely that he has more horcruxes than thought.
990** Slughorn was ashamed about having told Tom about Horcruxes, but since Horcruxes were in a library book, there was no reason for him to feel shame for answering such a question. As for how he manipulated his memory, that isn't stated by Rowling. He did willingly give up his both the fake and real memory to Dumbledore and Harry respectively.
991** Dumbldore needed to hear the entirety of the conversation to figure out if Tom gave any hints to the extent of the number of horcruxes. After all, Tom already gave away one and treated it cavalierly by giving it to Lucius to look after, not telling him how vital it was to him and to protect it with his life.
992** Tom was fifteen when he asked Slughorn about making numerous horcruxes. He did so in a way that was flattering Slughorn.
993[[/folder]]
994
995[[folder: Bellatrix's "sons"]]
996* When talking to Snape and Narcissa, Bellatrix says that if she had sons, she would have been proud to have them serving Voldemort. Does this mean that she wouldn't have wanted a daughter to join the Death Eaters? Or is it just that she's saying "sons" because Draco's a boy?
997** Maybe sons are more valued than daughters by purebloods, especially families like the Blacks or Malfoys, since males the ones who are going to carry on the family name. Or, yes, Bellatrix simply used the term "sons" to make it sound more applicable to Narcissa's situation.
998** There don't actually seem to be that many female Death Eaters. Bellatrix is the only prominent one, aside from Alecto Carrow - and she's part of a team with her brother. So maybe there is an undercurrent of StayInTheKitchen among the dark side - women stay at home and produce heirs while the men do service for the Dark Lord. WordOfGod says that Bellatrix married her husband because it was "expected of her" - so in addition to having horrible racist views, they're also a bit sexist to boot.
999*** Was she expected to get married or is she married, get married to a pure-blood? What about her husband? Was he expected to marry as well?
1000** For the record, in ''Cursed Child'', it's revealed that Bellatrix had a child ''with'' Voldemort, who would fulfill a prophecy to resurrect him if he was killed, even though said child turned out to be a girl. (Though it's not as if they had time to try again for a boy, if they weren't pleased with this.)
1001[[/folder]]
1002
1003[[folder: Voldemort not being pragmatic]]
1004* What did Voldemort have to gain by sending Draco on a suicide mission to off Dumbledore, other than petty revenge against Lucius in the likely event that Draco died in the attempt? Killing the only wizard he ever feared was a crucial step for Voldemort in his quest for world domination, and if he fucked it up, Dumbledore and the rest of the wizarding world would've been on even higher alert. Why didn't he go for a plan that had less chance of failure?
1005** Voldemort probably figured that if Draco failed to do the job, one of the Death Eaters he helped into the school would do it for him, and that he would find out sooner or later if this happened. And considering Draco wasn't killed when Voldemort found out ''Snape'' did it, the proposition made was probably something like "If the plan to smuggle some Death Eaters into Hogwarts to kill Dumbledore fails, then I'll kill your family because YOU were the stakeholder," rather than outright telling him, "You yourself need to personally kill Dumbledore, and I'll kill you and your family if you don't."
1006** ^Unlikely, the DE specifically mention that they are forbidden to strike the finishing blow on Dumbledore, it must be Draco who kills him. Draco probably came close to being killed for failing the task, but Voldemort accepted that it was not a complete failure since he did disarm and snuggle the back up necessary for Snape to kill dumby.
1007** The plan actually makes a lot of sense. DD is the world's most powerful wizard and living in a place where entering is near to impossible, having him killed by a student (something that DD may not expect) is logic, more than sending some sort of attack force or an undercover Death Eater. On the other hand, he did had a Plan B as we see that, actually, Draco did fail and did not kill DD (Snape did).
1008** I think the OP was asking why Voldemort would've put it on Draco specifically, as his heart clearly wasn't in it, which is answered by what's posted above, along with giving him some emotional torment and a punishment for his father's failure to retrieve the prophecy in the last book. His orders weren't "You need to be the one to kill Dumbledore," just something like "You need to get some of my followers into the school and ensure that Dumbledore dies at some point, or else you're responsible."
1009** Moreover, Voldemort has little to lose by making such a move against Dumbledore, as he presumes his enemy is ''already'' as much on "high alert" as DD is capable of being. He's hoping that Dumbledore's compassion for his students (which V sees as weakness) will make him vulnerable to attack from that direction, or at least allow Draco time to achieve his task of helping other Death Eaters break into Hogwarts. And Draco, even with his father's disgrace, is a better choice than most of the ''other'' DE children currently at Hogwarts: would you bet on Crabbe, Goyle, or Nott coming up with a subtle plan or carrying it through?
1010** I think it is canon that it WAS just a petty and cruel plan, and that the main (if not whole) purpose of sending Draco was to punish Lucius. Anything else, like Draco succedding would be a bonus, but Voldemort would have bet against Draco ten times out of ten. He has absolutely no real expectations from Draco, and absolutely nothing to lose from sending slytehrins students recklessly try to kill dumbledore, who is already on DEFCON 1 anyway. If he wants to have something done in Hogwarts, Snape is the one he'll expect to pull through, not the 16 year old git who is more likely to embarass himself than bring even the bare minimum of results (which is spelled out between Snape and Dumbledore).
1011** It looks like it's a win-win situation for Voldemort. He's not expecting Draco to succeed, so if he gets killed or incarcerated then that's no loss to his ranks - plus it tortures Lucius for his failures (probably also for his lack of help during the thirteen years he was without a body). If Draco does succeed, then hey that's Dumbledore out of the way and Voldemort didn't have to go to any expense to do it himself. Plus, he may have thought that a student trying to assassinate him might keep Dumbledore distracted while Voldemort rises back to power.
1012[[/folder]]
1013
1014[[folder: Screwing destiny]]
1015* So...In this book, Dumbledore explains to Harry that the prophecy doesn't actually matter, since (from what I understand), the prophecy isn't what's making the conflict of the series happen - Voldemort will never stop trying to prove that only he can kill Harry Potter, and Harry will never stop trying to kill Voldemort because of an innate sense of justice. How does that make sense at all, though, when the only reason the conflict got started at all was ''because of the prophecy?'' Yes, Harry and Voldemort both have their own reasons for going after each other, but Voldemort wouldn't have gone after Harry as a baby unless he'd heard about the prophecy in the first place, and Harry probably wouldn't have had such a personal desire to defeat him if Voldemort hadn't been responsible for the deaths of his parents. So how is the book supposed to convey a sort of ScrewDestiny message when it's more of a self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing?
1016** It doesn't matter in the sense that Harry shouldn't allow it to govern his actions. Remember, Harry has to die before V can be defeated. He must accept his fate as TheUnchosenOne meaning he has to discard the prophecy. On the other hand, latching to it was V's greatest weakness - his stubborn insistence that he must be the one to kill the boy largely ensured Harry's survival. DD wanted Harry to avoid the same trap.
1017*** Did Voldemort ever get to hear the part of the prophecy that said that it must be him who should kill Harry though?
1018** So it's like a placebo, then? Dumbledore wasn't saying the prophecy ''didn't matter'', just that Harry should focus on his personal motivations instead of just acting like it was the only thing that did?
1019*** EXACTLY - at least as far as Harry is concerned. However, as Dumbledore also points out, Voldemort's obsession with the Prophecy and his equally-obsessive desire to kill Harry pretty much guarantees that the confrontation will take place eventually regardless of Harry's decision. As does Harry's own character, though Harry's reasons for doing so are ultimately independent of the Prophecy.
1020[[/folder]]
1021
1022[[folder: That Didn't Take Long...]]
1023* At the start of the book, Dumbledore takes Harry to Slughorn's to convince him to come to Hogwarts. They arrive at midnight, and take around ten-twenty minutes to persuade him (ending with "I think we've done all that we can do."), and arrive at the Burrow... where Molly, Arthur and Hermione all state they didn't expect Harry to arrive until morning. Did Dumbledore seriously expect to be spending six hours trying to convince Slughorn such that he told the Weasleys Harry would be there by morning?
1024** Most likely, Dumbledore said something like "he'll be there ''by'' morning", as in, I expect to be done before morning, and the Weasleys mistook it as meaning he'll be there ''at'' morning, as in, that's when he'll arrive. Dumbledore was also most likely bluffing when he said "we've done all we can do"; he probably would have found reasons to stall until Slughorn agreed (he needed that memory, after all).
1025*** Maybe Dumbledore used ExactWords by saying Harry would be there by morning, but brought him there in the extremely early morning, as in just after midnight.
1026[[/folder]]
1027
1028[[folder: Voldemort's secret fear]]
1029* During their trip to retrieve the Horcrux from the cave, Dumbledore at one point tells Harry that "there is nothing to fear from darkness, no more than there is to fear from a body," roughly paraphrased, and goes on to say that, secretly, Voldemort himself fears both. Am I mistaken, or was Dumbledore really suggesting that ''Voldemort'', the Dark Lord himself, is secretly afraid of the dark? And if so, what would even give Dumbledore that idea?
1030** He's making a metaphor. Voldemort is afraid of the ''unknown'', specifically the unknown fate awaiting mortals after death. Fear of the dark is simply an analogy to that: we fear darkness because it obstructs us seeing, hence makes our environment "unknown".
1031[[/folder]]
1032
1033[[folder: How is that a reason not to kill him?]]
1034* In the first chapter, Bellatrix and Snape run through all the questions the fans were asking about "if you're on Voldemort's side, why haven't you done various evil things before now?", and one question she asks is "why didn't you kill Harry as a baby or young child before he came under Dumbledore's protection at Hogwarts?" Snape replies that he, like others, believed Harry could only have defeated Voldemort as a baby by possessing great Dark powers of his own, and that he was destined to grow up into the next Dark Lord. Bellatrix believes this, but why? Leaving aside the question of what makes someone a Dark wizard in the first place (because nothing about that makes much sense), the Death Eaters had a specific ideology: Pureblood supremacism. People like Lucius and Bellatrix joined because they came from Pureblood supremacist families, people like Snape joined because they fell in with a bad crowd and believed it was the only group that would accept them, and people like Pettigrew joined because they gravitate to the biggest bully in the playground. Assuming for the sake of argument that Harry would have grown up to be a Dark Lord and that you can tell that by a power he manifested at the age of one, this might explain why Pettigrew didn't go after Harry, but not why Snape or these nebulous others didn't - just because someone's Dark doesn't mean they're a Pureblood supremacist, and vice versa. If as a baby the head of ISIS killed the Ku Klux Klan's Grand Imperial Blue Eyes White Dragon or whatever bullshit title their leader has, KKK members wouldn't start becoming radical Islamists. Are we to assume that in the Potterverse, all evil people are naturally on the same side, regardless of their beliefs and reasons for doing evil?
1035** It wasn't like that. Bella wondered why Severus didn't kill Harry ''after'' he was enrolled in Hogwarts. And he responded that he was initially curious about whether or not the Dark Potter theory might be correct. After he decided that it's not, there was simply no point in trying to kill Harry, risking his cushy job in he process, if not freedom and life.
1036*** Fair enough; evidently I misremembered that detail. But why is there this conflation of "Pureblood supremacist" and "Dark"? We still have the question of why a supposedly loyal Death Eater would consider transferring his loyalty to his master's killer just because said killer might have used a similar kind of magic to Voldemort.
1037*** Well, power is still power, regardless of the ideology. Remember, "there's no good or evil, only power and those too weak to pursue it". If Harry did indeed kill the goddamn ''Voldemort'' at the tender age of one, not only would going after him be a sure suicide, but when he grows up and becomes the next Dark Lord, what, do you think the Ex-Death Eaters would say: "nuhuh, we're not joining you, you're not a blood supremacist!"? Of course not, they'll join him both to avoid being horribly murdered and expecting to be granted positions of power under his regime. I'm pretty sure that's how it was with V for the majority of them as well. The pack "believes" whatever the leader believes. Also, I said it, and I'll repeat it: ALL wizards in this wretched Verse hate and/or despise no-majes, the only difference is that some of them were brazen hypocrites about it. So the Death Eaters could reasonably expect that Dark Lord Harry would be more or less on board with them about the "Muggle Question".
1038*** That's very subjective. I took exactly the opposite; that most wizards have nothing against muggles and other even have a fancy for muggles, that's why the really muggle-haters like the DE were despised by mainstream society in a similar way how we despise white supremacists. But of course, I like the books and enjoy reading them instead of hating them and feeling like they present a fantasy version of Literature/NineteenEightyFour.
1039*** Uhuh. They hide from no-majes. They call them a name that literally means "morons". They "study" them as one would an animal species. They steal from them, [[http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Ministry_of_Magic_operation_to_acquire_the_Hogwarts_Express ''including a goddamn train'']]. They casually mind-rape them. They abandon them to the mercy of murderers (no, that token bullshit about "putting protection spells on their homes" they offhandedly mention in Hallows doesn't count for obvious reasons). Truly the height of respectful and harmoniuous coexistence. Actually, just read the HP entry in BrokenAesop - all that is to say on the subject is said there.
1040*** It makes more sense if you consider it from a real-world perspective, with "pure-blood wizard" analogous to "white." No, not all white people are neo-Nazis who storm the streets and lynch people. Not all white people consciously hate non-white people. But racial privilege means that most white people ''do'', intentionally or not, either perpetuate racist institutions and systems, or stand by and let other people perpetuate racist institutions and systems. Similarly, yeah, not all wizards were Death Eaters. Not all wizards go out and Avada Kedavra Muggles or Muggle-borns. But most, if not all, wizards ''do'' allow Muggles to be mindwiped and manipulated and lied to and left defenseless. They ''do'' allow non-purebloods to be heavily discriminated against. Even half-bloods and muggle-borns themselves start to play into this as wizarding culture assimilates them further and they see it as perfectly acceptable to treat Muggles like shit, not because they ''consciously'' think Muggles are subhuman or whatever, but because they don't understand that treating Muggles the way they do is shitty, because they don't care to think about anything from a Muggle point of view, because the Muggle point of view is "beneath them," and at the end of the day, wizarding culture doesn't reward anybody for caring about Muggles. It's gross and it's all kinds of racist, but it's there. However, I think the difference between the Death Eaters and everyone else is less "everyone else is a hypocrite" and more "everyone else is struggling to overcome centuries of conditioned hatred against Muggles including all the learned microaggressions and subtle discrimination that they have yet to identify in themselves."
1041*** Just because some Tropers that hate the books snark about it in TV Tropes mean nothing. TV Tropes already has a problem with it and bad reputation about that kind of stuffs, to the point that measures have been taken to make it less hatred-fueled. Now, where's the source that says Muggle means moron? The rest is, again, subjective: " They "study" them as one would an animal species." Or they study them like we study a primal isolated tribe. Those exist in real life and the way how anthropologists study them is not that different from how muggles are studied in the HP universe, not to mention if things were the other way around Wizards would be experimented with in labs in some secret military base if not dissected. "They steal from them", boohoo, I think we can survive without ONE train. "They casually mind-rape them.", See? this is the stuffs when obviously if someone hates the books will have a different taken on the same issue that someone who like them. Rashomon-effect in some way. If we see the ''Film/MenInBlack'' franchise they use an alien devices to erase civilians minds' in order to keep TheMasquerade, similar un how vampires in other media, like for example ''Series/ForeverKnight'', use hypnosis, and wizards in other media like ''Series/SabrinaTheTeenageWitch'' also use mind-erasing spells. Now of course you can think that Sabrina, Agents K and L and Nick Knight mind-rape humans into submission, but that's hardly what most people think. Yet, something identical happens in Harry Potter and suddenly is place at the same level of Hannibal Lecter in ''Film/TheSilenceOfTheLambs''. Anyway... again, the books are very divisive for some reason, as almost everything that is popular not to mention the MoralGuardians backlash because of the witchcraft stuffs, but the point is what the reader would take from them will vary on his/hers own subjectivity and whether he/she like them or hate them.
1042*** We see in ''Film/FantasticBeastsAndWhereToFindThem'' that the American isolationism that forbids them any interaction with muggles is considered backward and barbaric in Europe. And this are the 30s. although indeed some wizards seem to be oblivious of basic muggle society, and this is PlayedForLaughs and was supposed to be funny (but as often happens some readers took what was supposed to be a joke an re-interpret as a horrible offensive idea with a monstrous meaning), the case is that wizards do interact with muggles as much as to intermarry. The only way half-blood can exist is if wizards have enough interaction with muggles that sometimes they fell in love and marry some. Muggleborns integrate their families into wizard society to judge for what we know of Lily Potter and Hermione, at no point is ever said that Hermione’s parents are mistreated by other parents or the Ministry (nor even the Malfoys are rude enough as to say a racial slur in front of them), and the fact that they are outrage for the American law that outlaw wizard-muggle relationships means that at the very least having muggle friends or companions is not taboo. \
1043It’s clear that wizards see muggles as humans, as much as them, and although they can be very condescending, other than the blood supremacists the average wizard is at the worst just indifferent of muggles, and at the best integrates fully into their lives. We don’t know how many muggleborns and half-blood are but they seem to be at the very least a third of the population, if not more, that’s a lot of people with muggle relatives and friends. I guess the closest thing we can understand the relationship between wizards and muggles is the relationship with disable people. There are some horrible people that think disable people should be eliminated (the Nazis and eugenicists), some people (and probably most people, sadly) that are condescending to them and maybe undermine their abilities out of ignorance but is by no mean cruel or hateful towards them, and there’s the people that acknowledge their full potential and capacities seen them as just people with a slight variation in their functionality. For me, that’s the closest parallelism we can get. For wizards, muggles and squibs are disable, they don’t have something that is particularly advantageous which is magic (and how do you feel if you have a superpower and other people don’t), and, except for Death Eaters, they see muggles and squibs as that; people, fellow human beings with one very notable disadvantage in life compare to them.
1044** And Muggle Studies seems like it's educating on how Muggles do things without magic - which wizards ''would'' need to know in order to keep up TheMasquerade. Ron for example doesn't even know Muggle money, and his father is a Muggle obsessor.
1045[[/folder]]
1046
1047[[folder:Lupin and Tonks]]
1048* Does anyone get the impression that Lupin just really doesn't want to be with Tonks? I know the idea is that he really does love her and just has self-esteem issues but in the writing it comes off as 'Lupin says he doesn't want to be with her and everyone else nags and guilts him into it'
1049** It's not uncommon for people who have grown up without a lot of friends or being ostracised to have ''incredibly'' low self-esteem. To the point they think their very presence is a burden or that friends and lovers only do so out of pity. I think if Lupin didn't love her he'd come out and say that. What he exactly says is that Tonks deserves someone younger and without the werewolf curse (obvious allegory for someone with AIDS saying that their spouse deserves someone healthy). Most of their romance takes place off screen but when they are together as a couple, he seems to be quite into her. And really, wouldn't Tonks be able to tell after a while if he didn't really love her? And all these adults have known about it for months - so they have had time to work out if it's a one-sided crush on Tonks's part or Lupin is just shying away out of fear or low self-esteem.
1050** You could also interpret it as not just months of Tonks declaring her love and Lupin rebuffing her, but perhaps the relationship starting for a bit and Lupin breaking it off for those reasons? Lupin does spend a lot of the sixth book undercover among other werewolves, so maybe they were together before he went undercover and he broke it off sometime after?
1051[[/folder]]
1052
1053[[folder: Voldemort's communication with Draco]]
1054* How did Voldemort communicate with Draco during his mission, threatening his and his family's life if he failed, etc.? And how would Voldemort have been able to kill Draco for failure if he was at Hogwarts under DD's protection?
1055** As people need to remember, ''this'' is one of Voldemort's many fatal flaws - assuming he can dictate people through fear alone. Draco is sixteen, and clearly realising he is in something ''way'' above his head, and Voldemort is using that to manipulate Draco into murdering Dumbledore. Voldemort also very obviously expected Draco to fail, and planned to kill him as a final punishment for Lucius's failure, when Draco ''returned home'' from the school year. What Voldemort ''didn't'' expect was for Draco to manage to corner Dumbledore and let the old man attempt to convince him otherwise - Voldemort never assumed that Dumbledore would be able to let Draco know that he ''could'' be protected from the Dark Lord, because he never thought Draco could get that far. As for how Voldemort communicated with Draco - who the fuck said he was? All we know is Draco was given a mission to kill Dumbledore by the end of the year. We also know that Draco was told this before the school year began. Again, Voldemort assumes he can use fear to manipulate his subbordinates, so used Draco's fear of his family being murdered due to his own incompetance to make him work, without having to do anything else. Voldemort doesn't have to stay in contact with him for the rest of the year - it's that tiny, little thought in the back of Draco's head saying "Don't mess this up or they will suffer" that motivates him into attempting the assassination. That's all. No need for Voldemort to say anything else. Just let Draco's psyche do all the threatening for him.
1056** All Voldy told Draco to do was to kill Dumbledore. He gave him this mission to punish Lucius and his family for failing to get the prophecy by also telling Draco that he would harm his family if he failed. It was up to Draco to decide how to kill Dumbledore which is why his first two attempts failed--poisoned mead and a crused necklace, both of which were done so Draco could kill from afar as opposed to face to face Dumbledore. It was the fear of failure that controlled Draco. After all, not only would his parents be in danger, but he would have to go back home (where Voldy had made his headquarters) and face his punishment by Voldy due to his failure.
1057[[/folder]]
1058
1059[[folder: Tom Riddle's Name]]
1060* Riddle says that he wanted to rid himself of his fitlhy Muggle father's name. He figured out eventually that his mother was a witch descended from Slytherin, so why not use her name instead? That would also give him credit with the Death Eaters and elite who
1061would have recognized the name.
1062** Tom did despise his Muggle father’s surname, but he didn’t regard his mother’s immediate family much better once he found out who they were — the book notes how disgusted he is when he comes upon the eyesore of a shack his uncle lives in. In general, the Gaunts seemed to be regarded as small potatoes among pure-bloods due to the squalor they lived in, with their connection to Slytherin being flaunted by them alone rather than something anyone else thought was worth anything. Besides, Tom’s first and last names came from his Muggle father, and he wanted a name that was as special as he believed himself to be, so just taking one from the Gaunt line wasn’t going to cut it for him.
1063[[/folder]]
1064
1065[[folder: Merope drugging Riddle]]
1066* Riddle Sr. is drugged when he accepts a glass of water from Merope when out alone. Why in the world would he have anything to do with Merope, let alone accept a glass of water from her? Unless she Imperiused him and included an Amortentia to make the effect last longer?
1067** There are a few potential explanations for this, in my view. Maybe Merope used the Confundus Charm to make Tom Sr. more likely to accept the drink, or used her improved magical talent to upgrade her appearance or even disguise herself. It could even be that she didn’t use a love potion at all, since that was just one of Dumbledore’s explanations for what might’ve taken place. ''Crimes of Grindelwald'' demonstrates two magical alternatives (the Imperius Curse and whatever Queenie used on Jacob) that she could’ve used to ensnare Tom.
1068** Why not? No matter how ugly or poor she is, is no longer Victorian England. A high class or high middle class guy like Tom would probably take a glass of water from a low class girl if offered. Occam's razor also applies to Headscratchers.
1069** I believe Dumbledore speculates it might have been as simple as she offering a drink on a warm day or something. From what I also remember, it was Marvolo and his son that were labeled the town kooks or whatever, Merope might have simply been seen as a pitiable person to him. And given the time period, Riddle may not have considered a woman, especially one so young, to have been a credible threat to him at all.
1070** Here's some Wild Mass Guessing - Tom Riddle Sr was engaged to a woman called Cecilia, who he was riding with near the Gaunt house. Maybe Merope offered him something that appeared to be an engagement present - homemade wine perhaps - but it had the potion concealed in it.
1071
1072[[/folder]]
1073
1074[[folder: Ron and Hermione being contrarians]]
1075* Why exactly where Ron and Hermione so insistent on disagreeing with Harry about Malfoy being a Death Eater every single time it was brought, despite the continuously mounting suspicion? Harry says that Malfoy has a Dark Mark, which is how he scared Borgins in helping him, yet Ron and Hermione are sceptical. Okay. Harry overhears Malfoy talking about doing something for Voldemort at Hogwarts and we know that Malfoy would be 17 soon enough so he would eventually join the Death Eaters. Again, Ron and Hermione cast doubt on this. Fine. Malfoy mentions Fenrir Greyback, who works for Voldemort, yet Hermione tries to brush off by saying it was an empty theart. Even when Harry discovers that Malfoy IS up to something, Hermione only seems to want to begrudgingly admit to it, because she can’t think of refutation. Look, we know why Dumbledore wasn’t listening to Harry, but why did Ron and Hermione try so hard to disagree with Harry? It obviously was NOT THE FIRST TIME, someone unassuming was plotting something at Hogwarts.
1076** One of Hermione's flaws is that she needs irrefutable evidence of something before she believes in it - it's one of the reasons she takes everything Luna says exists with scepticism. Every time Harry mentions suspicion on Malfoy, it's always just his word, he never gives proof until he discovers Malfoy is up to something, and even then, all it proves is that Malfoy was doing something that he doesn't want people to find, ''not'' that he's working for Voldemort. Ron doesn't believe Harry for the most part because he simply can't see why Voldemort, the high and mighty Dark Lord, would give Malfoy an important job ''or'' let him join the Death Eaters at all. Not to mention, every time Harry has suspected someone unassuming of doing something evil or immoral, he's always been proved wrong because he suspected the ''wrong person'' - Snape in book one, when it was Quirrell; Malfoy, then Hagrid, in book two, when it was Ginny under a Horcrux's control; Sirius, when it was really Sqabbers/Wormtail/Pettigrew, in book three, I could go on. So if anything, Ron and Hermione have simply grown weary of Harry's mounting suspicions purely because he keeps getting it wrong until it is thrown in his face.
1077** Let's also not forget the previous year, where Harry had them all literally fly to London and break into a government facility over the vision of Sirius being tortured; despite being reminded that Voldemort could have used their connection to fool him, he wouldn't even check to make sure it was genuine until Hermione hounded him. Hermione and Ron in particular ended up in extreme danger with the Death Eaters - all because of Harry jumping to conclusions. While they are good friends, they're bound to be getting pretty tired of Harry's assumptions and being proved wrong after he's already roped them in.
1078[[/folder]]
1079
1080[[folder: Because I am much older, much cleverer, and much less valuable]]
1081* So, what exactly did Dumbledore mean by this line? Okay, so him asking Harry to drink the potion, knowing it would most likely hurt him, would be pretty out of character for Dumbledore. But of the two of them, it really makes more sense to have Harry drink it and not Dumbledore as we see that Harry immediately panics and is unable to stop the Inferi without Dumbledore’s help. If Harry had just drank the potion, Dumbledore could have gotten them out of there without issue. Why does Harry buy into the logic of Dumbledore’s explanation of being ‘less valuable’, when the situation itself clearly proves otherwise? Dumbledore is the one who got them into the cave and onto the boat, and even explained how to fight the Inferi, so why is he the less valubale one in this context?
1082** Dumbledore knows Harry is the chosen one who can defeat Voldemort, not himself. In that sense Harry is the single most valuable person in the world. He cannot risk Harry being mentally scarred enough to become danger averse from the experience or have his trust in Dumbledore falter because of it. Dumbledore is also dying, he is mere weeks away from death due to the curse from the ring even without Snape's upcomming actions. Dumbledore doesn't know what the long term effects of that pain potion will be, so it makes no sense to risk the chosen when there is someone already marked for death at hand. As you said, Dumbledore has explained to Harry what he needed to do to defeat them. He just overestimated Harry's ability to think on his feet is all.
1083*** The point of contention is more so that Harry just accepts Dumbeldore’s answer of being less valuable than Harry, despite the fact that Harry very much doesn’t believe that. In long run, it would have been better to keep Dumbeldore around in order to defeat Voldemort. Harry is also NOT aware that Dumbledore will be dead soon any more than the reader is, so that cannot be a factor into his own reasoning. Again, the idea is that Dumbledore did not give a good enough explanation that should have convinced Harry in that context, based on what knowledge Harry has at that point. Also, what did Dumbledore mean when he said he was much older/cleverer? How does that matter?
1084*** It is said throughout the series, Harry trusts Dumbledore. Even, perhaps, when he shouldn't trust as unquestioningly as he does. Harry is "Dumbledore's man through and through". If Dumbledore asks Harry to accept something, he will do so even if he thinks it is wrong due to that unwavering trust Harry has in Dumbledore.
1085*** In addition to that, wasn't there something about Dumbledore only agreeing to take Harry to the cave if Harry gave his word that he would obey every order Dumbledore gave him, up to and including leaving Dumbledore to save his own life?
1086** A) They don't know what the potion will do, and it's only a possibility that it won't be outright poison that can't be cured. B) Harry has learned from his previous mess-ups that happened when he didn't trust the adults who knew better; if he'd remembered Snape when he'd had the vision of Sirius and gone to him, perhaps Sirius might still be alive.
1087[[/folder]]
1088[[folder: Snape's status as an agent]]
1089* We usually say that Snape is a '''triple''' agent for Dumbledore. Which means that he is a false ''double'' agent for Voldemort. Which means that, in Voldemort's opinion, Snape pretends to be Dumbledore's spy in the circle of Death Eaters. So we're talking a lot about what Snape should do not to blow his cover before Voldemort. But do we know what, in Voldemort's opinion, he should do not to blow his cover before '''Dumbledore''' as his spy? Does Voldemort feed any legit information to Dumbles via Snape that would allow the latter to continue being a spy for DD?
1090** It's possible of course, but only Dumbledore and Snape would know this. Maybe Voldemort has him give false information about his whereabouts?
1091*** But that's just it, if all the information is false, then the spy quickly falls under suspicion. It is precisely for this reason that the problem with moving Harry out of Privet Drive was to be resolved in such a complicated matter - otherwise all Dumbledore would have had to do would be to make Snape tell Voldemort one date when Harry was to be moved and actually do it several days earlier. ''Some'' information has to be true. The problem is, it has to work both ways, so Voldemort has to pass to DD something true via Snape as well - unless Voldemort just grossly underestimates Dumbles' wisdom.
1092[[/folder]]
1093
1094[[folder:Why not expel Draco?]]
1095* I can understand that Dumbledore was planning his own death, but by letting Draco's plot carry on, he did let innocents get in the crossfire. Two innocent students nearly died because of Draco trying to murder Dumbledore. Why didn't Dumbledore do something like flatout expel Draco and get him arrested and thrown in Azkaban (or at the very least, get his wand snapped)? Students' safety is more important than his planned assisted suicide.
1096** Because he was trying to save Draco and family from being murdered by Voldemort and bring that back to light. This is still a pretty dodgy reason but it's the one explicitly given in the book. Plus the sooner he definitively stops Draco, the sooner Snape as to kill him as per the unbreakable vow and Dumbledore is still trying to find and destroy Horcruxes as long as possible to give Harry the best chance to suceed. He's planning for Snape to kill before the ring's curse does but he's putting it off as long as possible.
1097** Also, IIRC, DD doesn't have any viable proof, does he? All that's known is two students have been attacked, but not that Malfoy is behind it, nevermind that the attacks were supposed to be aimed at DD. Yes, DD knows it was Draco, Potter knows it was Draco (or strongly feels it), Snape probably knows it was Draco and WE KNOW it was Draco, but they can't prove it to anyone. "Hey, Draco Malfoy did it, because... well, he's evil... and all". Those are also unfortunately pretty much rules of the real world. You know that someone is doing something bad, but you don't have a proof for anyone else? Well, too bad.
1098[[/folder]]
1099
1100[[folder:What if Draco died?]]
1101* When Harry used sectumsempra on Draco, what would have happened if Draco died because Snape never showed?
1102** All it would take for Draco to die would be the absence of Moaning Myrtle. Her screaming was what brought Snape down on them, and Draco would have likely bled out in minutes or less given the sword like slashes all over his chest. Harry was frozen in shock and would have watched him die. Snape's nearly instantaneous arrival indicates that he was nearby, probably trying to watch over Draco according to his Unbreakable Vow. Now, one of his vows was to protect Draco to the best of his ability. The question to ask is if the death of Draco would count as breaking the Vow, or if the Vow would consider Snape to have "protected him to the best of his ability" and allowed him to live.
1103*** If Snape lives, the vow would likely force him to kill Dumbledore, as vowed and as planned by Dumbledore. The question is in how much time he'd have before he'd be forced to take action, and if he would be able to hold off until the end of the year. Likely, after enough time had passed and/or spells cast to prove that Draco was dead, he would act and kill Dumbledore. There'd no need for a break in, Snape could do it himself without issue, and the break-in wasn't a requirement of Draco's task as evidenced by his other attempts. Though Snape might need to bring in witnesses to prove his loyalty to the Dark Lord. Meanwhile, there'd be a rift between Harry and his friend, as Hermione didn't approve of the Prince's book.
1104*** If the death of Draco counts as breaching the Vow, and Snape dies, things would be worse. Without Snape to help slow the curse, Dumbledore would start deteriorating rapidly. I doubt that Dumbledore would be able to convince anyone else to kill him. He'd have to rush with Harry to get the locket before he succumbed. I'd even imagine the possibility of him being too weak to survive the encounter, dying to save Harry. It would probably be preferable to the alternative of dying to the withering curse, which if it became public knowledge would clue Voldemort into the fact that Dumbledore had been after his Horcruxes. So either the Horcrux hunt goes far worse with Voldemort clued in, or Dumbledore dies in the cave with Harry, which would be hard to spin. No martyrs death, no symbol of resistance, just either a missing headmaster if he was pulled under by inferi, or another corpse brought back to Hogwarts by Harry Potter. And without Snape, the rescue from Privet Drive in ''Deathly Hallows'' would be done without Voldemort knowing beforehand the date, so Moody survives. Hogwarts however would be in the tender care of the Carrows, and that would not go well for the students.
1105*** There was nothing said that Snape had to keep acting to contain the curse to Dumbledore's hand. Snape tells him after containing the curse to his hand that he had about a year to live then. It was about a month or so between the time Sectumsempra is cast by Harry against Draco and Dumbledore is killed. The ultimate question for that would be if that was enough time for Snape to continue with Draco's mission or was it far sooner? The only things Harry discovers during that time is that Snape was the spy who overheard the prophecy and going to the cave with Dumbledore.
1106** Harry wouldn't be in any legal trouble. Even before the Ministry fell, the Order was killing Death Eaters. This is implied in ''Deathly Hallows'' when Lupin chastises Harry for disarming in the Battle of the Seven Potters instead of stunning and letting the Death Eaters plummet to their death. Harry would probably keep the Half-Blood Prince's book too so as to not attract suspicion. He might actually kill Snape during the escape from Privet Drive, as Snape cannot read his mind and would be too surprised by Harry using Sectumsepra to defend himself. That is assuming Snape killing Dumbledore still happened when it did. If Death Eaters invaded Hogwarts during this, Harry would probably kill all of them as in canon he took down 4 out 6 non lethally. So there'd be no ambush during extraction of Harry, and Mad-Eye Moody would live. The Order might actually be more effective with Moody, and would stop the takeover of Hogwarts and the Ministry with Harry putting down many Death Eaters. Scrimgeour would actually give Harry the sword seeing as how he was such a effective and strong fight, so when Harry, Ron and Hermione realize they need Basilisk venom, it would be a lot more accessible. No need for tenting in the middle of nowhere. Harry would likely never find out that he is a Horcrux, so when he offs Voldemort, everyone would see Voldemort's spirit escaping. This would lead to a lot harsher treatment of Death Eaters, and Hermione could actually push through some of her changes more easily with Harry's help. Overall a lot fewer of Voldemort's supporters would be around and a lot more good guys would be there. Teddy would probably not become an orphan, Fred and Colin Creevey would probably still be alive.
1107*** Scrimegour didn't have the sword to give to Harry. The real sword was still in the Headmaster's office, likely hidden somehow.
1108** Woah, woah, woah. I am into ForWantOfANail as any other troper. But some of the theories are just all in all pulled from sleeve. Not that I'm not enjoying a good WhatIf , but what indicated that Harry would want to KILL someone (DE notwithstanding), Scrimgeour doing anything to improve the situation is pure speculation (PS). Why would Harry not find out he's a horcrux? If LV died before all his horcruxes were destroyed, DEs might have simply told they were ONCE AGAIN under the influence of Imperius. "A lot fewer of Voldemort's supporters would be around and a lot more good guys would be there" - PS. "Teddy would probably not become an orphan, Fred and Colin Creevey would probably still be alive." - PS. I don't think that Draco, Snape and DD's different deaths would make the outcome of Battle of Hogwarts that much different. What were the characters doing during the battle? Draco cowered before LV, trembled with fear and at the end fled with his family. Snape was killed by LV. DD had already been dead. The only reason to speculate that some of the characters might be alive would probably be Moody alive as well... and that's a really long stretch.
1109*** But than again, yes, if I follow your logic, then I can say that nothing above matters and the battle of Hogwarts began the very next day DD died by alternate death (whatever it would be). As Voldemort has already lost his presumed spy (Snape), his trump card (Draco) and his greatest enemy (DD), nothing would obstruct him to attack immediatelly (keep the loss of Snape and Draco in mind). Teachers would not be prepared for such a surprise attack and neither would Kingsley, Moody, Scrimgeour or whoever else be. Hogwarts might be overcome in less than a day as everybody's motivation is lacking, no DD symbolic death for the right cause and everything and... finish this story yourself.
1110
1111[[/folder]]
1112
1113[[folder:Believing Harry about Draco being a Death Eater]]
1114* Why do Hermione and Ron brush off Harry's suspicions about Draco being a Death Eater? Both should know just from looking at Harry that you don't need to be an adult to accomplish significant things. Voldemort has twice before sent people to infiltrate the school (Quirrell and Barty Crouch Jr.), and as a Muggle, surely Hermione's heard about the Hitler Youth? It makes no sense for them to not at the very least suspect Draco of being one, considering that Draco hasn't exactly been all that subtle about his views on Muggleborns over the years (from hurling blood slurs in a crowded hallway, openly hoping that he could help the Heir of Slytherin murder people as a 12 year old, being gleeful about the idea of Hermione dying and being sexually assaulted at the Quidditch World Cup, etc.).
1115** Because by this point, everyone Harry has suspected is evil or up to something evil has turned out to be the wrong person. In book 1, he thought it was Snape, when it was Quirrell. In book 2, he thought it was Draco (and at one point himself), when it was Ginny, under Riddle's control. In book 3, he, and the rest of the Wizarding World, believed Sirius was after him, when it turned out he was after Pettigrew, who was also the real person who betrayed Harry's parents. In book 4, he thought it was Snape or Karkeroff who put his name in the Goblet, when it was Crouch Jr, disguised as Moody. In book 5, sure, he knew Voldemort was alive, but he also led his friends into danger because of a false vision, and was in an intense rivalry with Umbridge practically the whole school year. So is it any surprise that Ron and Hermione are a little weary of Harry's suspicions of Malfoy? Also, Malfoy always talks big, but very rarely has he shown how capable he is.
1116** Harry followed Malfoy to Borgin and Burkes, a store known for selling dark products, where he saw the owner look scared after Malfoy showed his arm. That is enough evidence to at least investigate. Which is what Harry wanted. He wasn't asking them to go to the Aurors or Dumbledore right then. This is Harry being like, "Hey, you know that neighbour's kid? Who has been shouting racists slurs at people since he was elven? Who has lied to the police to get that black person's pet put down? Who has bullied non-white people whenever he could? Who wished that Latinos died when there was a killer going after them? Whose dad was arrested for trying to murder black people? He's acting suspicious this year". Hell, if this were a criminal investigation, Draco would've spent more time in police custody than at Hogwarts because he is so obviously among the main suspects for joining the KKK. In the Muggle world, Malfoy's old enough to be tried as an adult under both English and Scots law, and almost certainly would be since he's got either two or four counts of attempted murder on his indictment.
1117[[/folder]]
1118
1119[[folder:Detention for self-defense; nothing for the aggressor]]
1120* So why exactly is Harry getting detention for attacking Draco in self-defense? Draco tried to use an unforgivable on Harry (and at this point has already used the Imperius Curse on Madame Rosmerta) and Harry was simply faster with his spell. It was a clear case of self defense, Harry knows about Dumbledore's pensive and Veritaserum and Draco is obviously a Death Eater (both Dumbledore and Snape know). So I'm wondering why is Harry being the bad guy here? He used an unknown curse, so what? Draco could have tortured him into insanity, violating the magical Geneva convention (ban on unforgivables) in the process. Lethal force was a perfectly rational response to this. Even if Dumbledore believes that Draco can be redeemed, why punish Harry?
1121-->And Harry realised, with a shock so huge it seemed to root him to the spot, that Malfoy was crying – actually crying – tears streaming down his pale face into the grimy basin. Malfoy gasped and gulped and then, with a great shudder, looked up into the cracked mirror and saw Harry staring at him over his shoulder.
1122
1123-->Malfoy wheeled round, drawing his wand. Instinctively, Harry pulled out his own. Malfoy’s hex missed Harry by inches, shattering the lamp on the wall beside him; Harry threw himself sideways, thought Levicorpus! and flicked his wand, but Malfoy blocked the jinx and raised his wand for another –
1124
1125-->‘No! No! Stop it!’ squealed Moaning Myrtle, her voice echoing loudly around the tiled room. ‘Stop! STOP!’
1126
1127-->There was a loud bang and the bin behind Harry exploded; Harry attempted a Leg-Locker Curse that backfired off the wall behind Malfoy’s ear and smashed the cistern beneath Moaning Myrtle, who screamed loudly; water poured everywhere and Harry slipped over as Malfoy, his face contorted, cried, ‘Cruci—’
1128
1129-->‘SECTUMSEMPRA!’ bellowed Harry from the floor, waving his wand wildly.
1130
1131* ...it's pretty clear Draco is the aggressor. Draco was the first to raise his wand. Draco was the first to cast a spell. All of Harry's spells were to incapacitate: Levicorpus, Leg-Locker. While Draco's missed spells were shattering and BLOWING THINGS UP (Harry broke a cistern with the leg-locker). FINALLY Draco casts an Unforgivable, at which point Harry responds with Sectumsempra. At no point did Harry attempt to start the fight. At no point prior to the Unforgivable did Harry attempt to do anything other than incapacitate a hostile entity. He could use his memory/veritaserum to prove it.\
1132Also, from a logical perspective, Snape's first action upon showing up should have been to take care of his student and then figure out what the hell happened before dishing out any punishments. Even if you argue that Snape didn't have a reason to believe him (which is bullshit), it's simply irresponsible and illogical to NOT get both sides of the story.
1133** Draco gets off the hook because JK Rowling believed Draco wasn't in the wrong. In any sane world, Draco would be expelled and carted off to Azkaban. Harry would probably be punished even if the truth came out because he was fighting on campus and he used a pretty dangerous curse that could have killed Draco if they weren’t found by Snape. From a school administrator perspective, it would send an inappropriate message to the other students if Harry went completely unpunished.
1134** Well you're certainly not wrong in saying that Malfoy was the aggressor in this exchange. But the problem is that there were only 3 witnesses to this event. Malfoy, Harry and Moaning Mertle, in the same sense that the only witnesses to Dumbledore's death, were Harry, Snape and other Death Eaters. No one but Harry saw what happened, so it's just a case of his word vs their word. The fact that the reader can see exaclty what happens is a moot point. The other characters cannot. That's problem number one.
1135** Problem number two. Read the exchange carefully and you will see that Malfoy did not in fact cast the Cruciatus Curse at all. Harry cast the Sectumsempra before Malfoy could cast the curse. If he ''had'' cast the curse, well there would be very little that Snape or Dumbledore could do to cover that up. They already know what Malfoy is doing, but they can't expell him or else the Plan will be ruined. The fact that Harry struck first agrubely saved Malfoy's life, since it kept him from being expelled. It's nothing to do with JK thinking Malfoy was in the right. The point is that Snape and Dumbledore are playing a long chess game here. They couldn't afford to lose their most valuable pawn.
1136[[/folder]]
1137
1138[[folder:What if Draco succeeded in casting the Cruciatus Curse on Harry?]]
1139* Sure, Harry cast an untested spell that could have just been the Killing Curse with a different name as it was listed as "For Enemies" in the Half-Blood Prince's potions book, but he reacted to Draco Malfoy actively trying to use the Cruciatus Curse. But what would happen if Harry was too slow, and Malfoy successfully cast the Cruciatus Curse on Harry?
1140** Snape can't expel Malfoy anymore than he could Harry, though in Malfoy's case it's because of the Unbreakable Vow, and Dumbledore would probably sweep it under the rug for the sake of Snape. There probably would be heavy retaliation from the Gryffindor students, likely in the form of something like Hermione brewing Veritaserum, or one of them stunning Malfoy and screwing up his plot.
1141** Malfoy actively torturing a child, especially Harry, in Hogwarts would be impossible to ignore. He, until the very last parts of ''Deathly Hallows'', didn't show any want to be free of Voldemort. And if Harry wanted something done, Dumbledore would have had to do something, because the risk of Harry saying "Fuck this war" if Dumbledore let Malfoy get away scott free would be bad. Harry could also have used this to curry favor with Scrimgeour and the Ministry with a letter like:
1142-->''"Hello Minister,
1143-->''The son of a Death Eater used the Cruciatus Curse on me. If you want a PR stunt with "THE CHOSEN ONE"TM , please make sure the law is followed by arresting Draco Malfoy and prosecuting him to the fullest extent of the law. I would make sure to tell many people about your strong sense of justice.''\
1144''Best Regards,\
1145''Harry Potter''
1146
1147[[/folder]]
1148
1149[[folder:Leaving your old textbook for others to use]]
1150* Why did Snape leave his textbook for next years of students? Not that I wouldn't wish anyone to benefit from the notes and tricks of Snape's invention (although it would be totally OOC for him to be willingly helpful to anyone out of goodness of his heart). Why didn't he keep the book, when he had been making personal notes in it? It may have been useful to him any time later. Moreover, he was writing lethal curses of his own invention in the book, so it would become pretty dangerous for the following students who recklessly cast it. If he was forced by the school rules to return the book (as he probably had only borrowed it, being poor and not being to able to purchase textbooks), he might have at least rewrite his notes to his own notebook or sth, and erase everything in the borrowed potions textbook. Come to think of it... [[FridgeLogic how many students have exactly benefitted from his textbook all these years]] ? How many students were given the filthy old scrappy book only to find out it was a small treasure?
1151** Ever since Snape first became a teacher at the school, he's been teaching Potions, despite his lust for the DADA job. He also has incredibly high standards, stating he will refuse to take on any student in Potions if they did not get an Outstanding in their O.W.L. Then, one year, Dumbledore finally relented and gave Snape the DADA job, and got Slughorn to be the Potions Master. Slughorn lowered the pass mark for Potions at N.E.W.T. to Exceeds Expectations, which allowed more students to join in the Sixth Year. Harry and Ron were unaware of the lowered standards, so they're the only ones to not come to class with the required textbook. They are lucky there are spares, which Slughorn hands to them until they can buy their own, and Snape's copy happens to be there. In the past, when Snape was a teacher, since he made it clear he only accepts Outstanding grades, his students would know if they can or can't take Potions, and buy their books accordingly. If they got an O, great, they buy the textbook themselves. If they didn't, tough, no N.E.W.T. Potions. Plus, does Snape really seem to be the type of person to willingly hand over spare copies of the required textbook if a student comes to class without it? Not to mention, he also knows which book is his, so would know to not give it away.
1152** It's likely he also just forgot about it being in the cupboard. It's not like he used it a lot and after he becomes the DADA job, he just didn't think to remove the book from the classroom.
1153[[/folder]]
1154
1155[[folder:Effects of potions and spells on oneself]]
1156* What would a love potion do if you brew it, gave it to yourself and drank it? Would you narcissistically fall in love with yourself and... play with yourself all day/until the love potion stops affecting you? More on this topic - could you actually use spells on yourself? Say you wanted to commit suicide, would you be able to AK yourself? What about Crucio? Let's go with movie implication that cruciatus is something of overpowered electric taser... If you crucioed yourself, would you be permanently stuck in the pain, until you were dead (akin to being unable to let go of grabbed electric wire)? Could you Iperiused yourself or would that even work? As someone needs to make someone do something when under imperius, would that make you an idle zombie, because you would be waiting for an order, while at the same time, you would need to be the one making the order? Paradoxically stuck forever in "awaiting orders mode"?

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