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1Please check [[https://web.archive.org/web/20110623030156/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq.cfm?ref=aboutthebooks JK's FAQs]] before asking a question that may have already been answered.
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3[[foldercontrol]]
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5[[folder: The Deathly Hallows (General)]]
6* How does the whole "becoming Master of Death which means accepting death" thing work? It worked for Harry, sure, but he was a hero who had already undergone a lot of character development unrelated to the Hallows. Other than the fact that it wouldn't make a good story, there was nothing theoretically stopping a mediocre and evil character from getting all three hallows. What would happen then? Does owning the three dang things give one a magical brainwash that makes one accept death, or something?
7** Possibly it's another "prophecy" thing, from a really really long time ago: it's not that ''any'' old person who happens to gather the three Hallows together would accept death and become its master, it's that the one guy who ''actually does'' do so (Harry) ''just happens'' to achieve both of those conditions at the same time.
8* Why does Harry need to know about the Hallows? How does the whole legend help? Here's what happens if Dumbledore didn't plant the kid's book with Hermoine: Harry still runs around with the cloak, the Elder Wand still won't be able to kill Harry, and, since the Resurrection Stone apparently has nothing to do with keeping Harry alive (D explains at King's Cross that it was Harry's blood in V, etc. that saved Harry), Harry could just stride into the forest to get "killed" by Voldemort. I don't see why letting Harry know about the Hallows is anything other than a wild goose chase, and a dangerous one at that. What did the Hallows have to do with anything that Harry actually needed to do?
9** WMG: Dumbledore was planning on Harry getting the hallows so he would ''believe'' he'd survive the suicide run. Harry actually surviving wasn't part of the plan.
10** Debatable. It's possible Dumbledore knew he'd survive based on Lily's sacrifice and Voldemort using harry's blood. Dumbeledore specifically tells Snape that Voldemort has to be the one to kill him. It's likely Harry could have been killed by anyone/thing and the part of Voldemorts soul would have been destroyed. He tells snape this as it is likely the only way harry could survive So it's very possible that Dumbledore did plan on Harry to survive, but his plan relied on Harry being willing to sacrifice himself, or Harry would not have survived. So he kept that part of the plan to himself.
11** DD was going to give Harry the stone. He knew the cloak was one of the Hallows and probably guessed that Voldy was going to try to acquire the Elder Wand, Dumbledore's own wand. DD wanted Harry to know what he received, what he had, and what he needed to keep Voldy from getting.
12* What's with all of this ArbitrarySkepticism regarding the legend of Death and the Three Brothers? As far as I've seen, this alternative explanation, which was suggested only ''once'' in the book by Dumbledore, is used over and over again to {{Handwave}} the inconsistancies regarding the Invisibility Cloak and the fact that every other character seems to be able to see through it. In a world full of magic and prophecy, where you have ghosts flying around everywhere, creatures that can suck your soul out, and a stone that can summon loved ones' spirits from the afterlife, why is it so difficult to consider that Death may in fact be an actual spectre capable of confronting and interacting with the living?
13** MagicAIsMagicA. There are no gods in the Harry Potter universe, at least; nothing of the sort is described.
14** How do you know there are no gods of anysort. In book 7 there are Bible verses on the gravestones of the Dumbledores and the Potters. And since there is obviously an afterlife why can't death be real?
15** Bible verses prove nothing other than the fact that ''Christianity'' exists in the Harry Potter universe. Besides, if Christianity was true, Death as its own independent entity would be false anyway. JKR doesn't imply any kind of god existing throughout the series. I exclude god from the series for the same reason anyone else will exclude Fanon ideas.
16** Not to mention that, if such personification of Death actually exist in the universe, it would have shown up in the story. Also the existence of death as a sentient being/entity would clash with Horcruxes, ghosts and Dementors, since they basically defy the concept of normal 'death'.
17** It's also not clear there is an afterlife. Wizards seem to agree that there is a soul (what with Dementors and all) but the Dumbledore in the station said he didn't know what was beyond limbo - there could be nothing, just plain unknowing death. And let's not forget the whole station thing could be only Harry's hallucination (and the Dumbledore seems to agree with that). If you read closely, everything Dumbledore says in that chapter could be concluded by Harry by himself. I see the limbo scene as Harry's unconscious catching up with Dumbledore's clues.
18** Maybe, but some of the information would be quite a leap for Harry. It seems more likely to this troper that it was indeed some type of limbo where Dumbledore's spirit was waiting for him.
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20* When Dumbledore discovers Marvolo's ring, he identifies it instantly as the Resurrection Stone because of his familiarity with the Deathly Hollows. Why didn't Voldemort similarly recognize it? The Hollows are more widely known than Horcruxes, after all, and he had already learned how to make a Horcrux by the time he got his hands on the ring. If he DID recognize it as the Stone, why didn't he keep it and use it for its intended purpose; summoning the spirits of the dead. I can think of a lot of horrific ways a Dark Lord could use the Stone for its intended purpose, but he just makes it a Horcrux and tucks it away in the Gaunt's shack.
21** Voldy only seemed interested in the most well known of the Hallows and only after Ollivander told him about it. The implication given in the book is that Voldy never knew about the Hallows since he was half blood and didn't grow up with wizard bedtime stories, which the Bard book was. Much like how Harry never heard of it. By the time he knew of the wizarding world, he was too old for such stories. This he only saw the ring as a ring, a heirloom of the Gaunt family and saw no other significance to it.
22** But his topic of special research was methods of becoming immortal. Surely he would have encountered the Deathly Hollows in that research, you know, artifacts that were specifically said to hold power over death?
23*** Even if he were to come across the legend, there's no definitive proof that it's true or that the Hallows are real. The Peverell brothers are never named throughout the story, and Voldemort went and killed off the last person who could've told him, "Hey, by the way, you're descended from one of the brothers who made the Deathly Hallows." And regardless, Voldemort strikes me as the kind of guy to focus on methods that he's certain will really work before resorting to wasting his time searching for ones that might not even exist. He only started going after the Elder Wand after he'd gotten substantial proof of its existence from someone else, and because he was desperate to solve the issue of his and Harry's wands clashing.
24** Voldemort is also ''incredibly'' arrogant. By the time he could have associated Marvolo's ring with the Deathly Hallows, he was already way down on his quest to create the horcruxes. Diverting to checking out the Deathly Hallows would be akin to admitting to himself that the plan to stay immortal via the horcruxes could be flawed.
25** Let's also not forget that all three brothers in the story ''died'' in due time, despite them all having the items capable of making one "Master of Death". If Voldemort had read the story, odds are he would've taken that into account.
26** Also, even if he ''had'' recognized it, what's he going to use it for? Summoning his mother? She's already something of a BrokenPedestal to him, since he initially thought that if she were truly a witch, then she wouldn't have died, only to find out he was wrong. His father? Who he hated for ''abandoning'' his mother (for a decent reason, but young Tom didn't stop to consider that) and killed personally when he was just 16? Even after he found out the Elder Wand existed, he went after just to have a better wand, not due to its status as one of the Hallows.
27** Very few wizards and witches even knew about the Deathly Hallows being the three special items that could make one Master of Death. As time passed, the three items simply became part of the children's story and faded from memory that they were once real. As for legend of being Master of Death, onlly the most ardent believers even knew about that aspect of them.
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29* Am I the only one that is bothered by the name? Hallow can either be a verb that is synonymous with sanctify or venerate, or a noun that is a synonym for Saint. Meaning it is either "The Deathly Saints" which, taking the adjective meanings of deathly, could mean the deadly saints, the saints that appear on the verge of death, or the extreme saints, or "The Deathly Sanctifies"/"The Deathly Venerates". Or you could use another meaning of hallow, which is "To shout, especially to urge on dogs for hunting". The only one that makes sense is a rather archaic meaning of hallows (not hallow) itself, which can either be the remains of a saint or the shrines that they are kept in, and even then that's even more archaic than the other forms, which are at least in use in the form of All Hallows' Eve/Halloween, and All Hallows' Day (though Halloween is the only one I've heard being used regularly, usually I hear All Saints Day, and I've only heard All Hallows' Eve when someone is explaining the origin of the word Halloween). And even if it is being used in the form of a saint's remains or relics, it makes little sense since two of the three were originally given to men who were outright stated to be bad people (Antioch was a combative man who wanted to be undefeatable in combat, Cadmus was an arrogant man who wanted to defy death).
30** Not so much an answer to the headscratcher in general here, but it's worth noting that the Peverell brothers lived a LONG time ago. By all accounts, the Hallows have been around for at least long enough for the story to go from something that happened to them or that they made, become a story told to friends, who tell it to their friends, and on and on until it's a children's story that Hermione gets in a book (which could very well be an old book. We know at least Ron was read them when he was a kid, and it's very possible that his parents were read/told them too). So... Archaic naming is probably to be expected.
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32* Hey, wait a minute...The series has shown that effects of a wizard's magic disappear when that wizard dies, as was the case when Dumbledore died, and the body-binding spell he'd placed on Harry was broken. Wouldn't this prove that the legend of the Deathly Hallows was true, that the three of them really did belong to Death? Because if the three of them were just normal objects that were created and enchanted by the three brothers, wouldn't the enchantments have been broken once the three brothers had died? Harry's invisibility cloak has been passed down through his family for generations, and it's mentioned repeatedly that its powers haven't diminished or faded out in the slightest, which was what set it apart from normal cloaks.
33** If individual magic disappears after a wizard dies then all the invisibility cloaks that are sold as products would stop working once the wizard that made them dies, same with brooms, magic carpets, portkeys and other objects, not to mention Griffyndorf's magic sword, Slytherin's Chamber of Secrets and other many magical objects that whose creators have hundreds of years of dead. In one book is mentioned that the Egyptian wizards put a lot of charms in the pyramids to protect their treasures, and they have been dead for thousands of years.
34** Then how to explain Dumbledore's body-binding spell being broken?
35** I don't know, but is the exception, not the rule.
36** I was always under the impression that magic could fall into two categories: willful and non-willful. Willful magic are spells that require the caster to continue to will the effect on some level, such as a Patronus or the Cruciatus curse. They last only as long as the caster focuses on maintaining the spell, so distracting or killing the caster will end the spell. Non-willful is magic more typically used on inanimate objects and does not depend on the continued willpower (or even existence) of the original caster. Non-willful spells are the kinds used to enchant broomsticks or architecture, or other things like the ''Permanent'' Sticking Charm or transfiguration. If this is indeed the case, then the Full Body Bind classifies as a willful spell and the effects disappear along with the caster.
37** The above would be on good explanation for it, but here's my take: Maybe it deals with what the caster intends. Hear me out. When enchanting a broom or an invisibility cloak, the enchanter would be intending the enchantment to hold as long as it can, with the ideal being permanent. So, it is. It lasts through the enchanter's death, and on into the future as far as it can, cause that was the intent of the spell. Take Avada Kedavra for instance: V's dead as a doornail. Why aren't Lily and James alive again? Bella's dead. Where's Sirius? Do Frank and Alice Longbottom regain their sanity? No, because those were intended to be permanent effects. (In the Longbottoms' case, you could argue that Bella may not have expected the insanity thing, but let's be real, she would've wanted to keep it permanent.) Whereas Petrificus totalis wasn't meant to be a permanent thing (or at least, Dumbledore wouldn't have wanted Harry permanently bound in the tower. I mean there's even more evidence to this being possible with Stupefy and Renervate. Why do you need a counter curse for Stupefy? Because you're trying to end the curse sooner than the caster intended.
38** Just for the record, victims of Avada Kedavra wouldn't be back to life because, well, they died. Would be like expecting someone who died by been run over by a magic flying car to be back. The spell kills the person, the person dies, their vital organs stop functioning. Same in the case of the Longbottom, they did not became mad because the spell use in them causes madness but because the pain was so unbearable that their minds snapped, the effect that the Crucio curse has is to produce excruciating pain on the victim, not to make them mad (that was a side effect, probably because they were torture for very long time, something normally doesn't happen), in a similar way how Avada Kedavra's function is to stop your body from being alive. The effects of this curse is irreversible by definition.
39** It seems that magic that alters the nature of something is permanent, or far more permanent than others that just affect things on a more superficial note.
40[[/folder]]
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42[[folder: The Elder Wand]]
43* This hasn't been mentioned above (or otherwise I missed it), and it, well, just bugs me: We know the Elder Wand is passed if it's taken from its owner against his will, right? However, the reason everyone wants the Elder Wand so badly is because if you're the true owner and using it in battle, you're invincible right? Well, then there's one point I can't understand - how was Dumbledore able to get the wand from Grindelwald in 1945? Obviously, they dueled, and Dumbledore won - against someone invincible. How's that possible? And, if we assume Grindelwald lost on purpose (for whatever reason), the wand wouldn't have been taken against his will, so Dumbledore hadn't been the true owner either. Therefore - how did Dumbledore ever become the true master of the Elder Wand?
44** Either Dumbledore somehow tricked Grindelwald and won through no fault of the wand, or, more likely, the reputation of the wand is inflated and it's not actually unbeatable just far superior in power than any other wand.
45** This is it exactly. The wand's reputation for invincibility is inflated. In fact it's not invincible at all - the one consistent thing about its entire history is that ''every one of its owners has been defeated,'' most often specifically ''because they owned the wand''.
46** To expand on this point: ''None'' of the Hallows is infallible. Moody and Dumbledore appear to see through Harry's invisibility cloak, the resurrection stone only brings back ghosts, and the elder wand is more powerful but not invincible and induces SuicidalOverconfidence in its users.
47** If Grindelwald lost on purpose, then he effectively surrenders the wand's allegiance to Dumbledore - who planned to do the same thing to give the allegiance of the Elder Wand to Snape.
48** No, Dumbledore planned to die willingly at Snape's hand and thus die with the wand's allegiance and thus destroy much of its power as no one could properly use it anymore.
49** The Wand actually IS the most powerful wand in existence ... but it can be defeated/Mastered thanks to a couple of caveats. 1) Not even Mad Eye Moody is capable of maintaining CONSTANT VIGILANCE. All it takes is a moment's inattention at the wrong time and ... bye bye wand. 2) You have to know spells and how and when to use them. Having the deathstick does you NO good if you don't know the incantation for so much as a simple shield spell or refuse to use it. That basically means that in a stand-up fight between two wizards of comparable power levels, so long as the one holding the Deathstick doesn't get cocky, they win. If, however, they get cocky, or a challenger manages to surprise them in some manner, they're S.O.L.
50** I've heard it claimed (though I can't cite an exact source) that Dumbledore didn't directly beat Grindelwald, he just dueled him without losing for like 70 hours or something until Grindelwald's endurance ran out and he collapsed, at which point Dumbledore presumably stunned him for good measure.
51** Rita suggested that it's possible Dumbledore [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath talked Grindelwald down]] instead of straight out overpowering him. Granted that was in and interview for a book that made a ''lot'' of half truths. But there are inklings suggesting that Dumbledore's victory over Grindelwald was as much a mental one as it was physical and Grindelwald's last moments indicate that he had a HeelFaceTurn.
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53* Dumbledore was hoping that if he died without being defeated, that the Elder Wand would become a normal wand. However, that was just guesswork, and might fail. He could have encased it in rock, dumped it in an oceanic trench, and made himself Secret Keeper for its location. Then, unless it's a [[Literature/TheLordOfTheRings One Ring]] type artifact which ''wants'' to be found, no one will ever find it, making it a much surer bet than Dumbledore's actual plan.
54** Even if it was not like One Ring, it was still an immensly powerful artefact and as such would emit lots of magical radiation or something like that making it easier to find. Hogwarts was supposed to be one of the safest storages in the world. The Keeper part makes sence though. But does the Fidelius charm pertain after the Keeper is dead?
55** Presumably because the next person who found the wand would become its owner. IIRC, it's mentioned in DH that the Fidelius Charm which protected Lily and James 'died with them', which Dumby presumably knew.
56** So? They weren't the ones who cast it, they were the ones being protected. Presumably if the elder wand had been under a Fidelius and then destroyed then the Fidelius Charm would 'die' with the wand. Dumbledore's Fidelius on Sirius' house lasted past his death.
57** According to WordOfGod, when the Secret-Keeper dies, the Fidelius Charm they are linked to is weakened; ''everyone'' else who knew the secret is now like a Secret-Keeper in their turn, and able to share it with other people. That is why when Dumbledore died everyone who knew where 12 Grimmauld Place was could bring new people to it; Dumbledore had been the original Secret-Keeper for 12 Grimmauld Place.
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59* Harry makes a point of saying that the Elder Wand's power will die if Harry dies a natural death. Uh... Harry? You do realise you announced the fact you're the master of the wand ''in front of a room full of hundreds of people''? I'm willing to accept that nobody left in the Great Hall was evil enough to steal the wand, but presumably the fight would be covered in great detail in the ''Daily Prophet'', and surely ''someone'' out there will read the article and say to themself, "Wow, the Elder Wand! I could sure use that!"
60** It's been discussed before (but was deleted) but suffice to say that although an oversight on his part it can easily be covered up by publicly claiming to return it to Dumbledore's grave, but instead he can put a touch-activated portkey wand there to have the aurors deal with anyone stupid enough to try and steal it.
61** Which would completely pointless, since in order to become the master you have to beat Harry, not steal the wand itself. Which Harry has told everyone by explaining why he is the master. The explanation might be that any bad guy who isn't dead or in prison by that point is probably thinking "That guy beat frickin' Voldemort, I'm not gonna mess with him".
62** Except that there is no requirement to defeat the wielder in a ''fair'' fight; you can entirely murder him in his sleep and then loot the wand from his corpse. That is straight from the original legend about the creation of the Deathly Hallows. The one every wizarding child knows.
63** Made worse by the fact that Harry decides to get a job as an AUROR. Okay, you intend to go through the rest of your life without being ''defeated'' in battle a single time, ever, as a policeman? Even without people actively hunting him down to become the master of the Elder Wand, he's throwing himself into situations where the wand's loyalty could jump on a daily basis.
64** This troper likes to think immediately after leaving the Headmaster's office, Hermione figured this out, Disarmed Harry, handed the wand back, then Obliviated it from Ron and Harry. The best way to ensure that that the Elder Wand dies is to make sure that no one knows who has the actual loyalty. (Well, or convincing some person to attack Harry, then kill themselves.)
65** If any of those who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts are mortally wounded, but still strong enough to manage one last ''Expelliarmus'', a visit to the triage ward in the Great Hall could've sorted that out as well. Heck, Harry should've probably gone there anyway, as the Elder Wand could probably mend Dark Magic injuries like George's ear if it can fix a broken holly wand.
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67* Okay, so the Elder Wand can't kill its master, but what would've happened if Harry hadn't used Expelliarmus on Voldemort? Nothing?
68** Possibly, the same thing that happened in the forest - they both get knocked out for a few seconds. Then Neville runs up with the sword and stabs Voldy in the forehead, or some such.
69** This is my theory. When the first AK was cast by Voldemort in the forest, it hit the horcrux which was in Harry and sends him to place between the world and the afterlife. Harry couldn't go further because of his mom's protection, Harry couldn't die while Voldemort was alive. Because Harry is the master of the Elder Wand, it rebounces on Voldemort but the curse was only powerful enough to send them to this place. When AK is cast again by Voldemort, it totally rebounces and kills Voldemort. Harry using Expelliarmus and catching the wand is more like RuleOfCool.
70** Original question asker here. That seems anti-climactic :(
71** I don't know. I've been under the impression that the Elder Wand would choose not to harm its master if it has a choice; but had Harry let his guard down, or was too slow to counter Voldy's attack, he would be seen as unfit to be its master, and the wand switches allegiance to Voldy. Besides, we rarely, if ever, see any instances where a person's wand is unwillingly used against him, so we don't really know how the extent of the wand's loyalty to its master.
72** The Elder Wand can kill its owner. Harry "died." That was why the Horgux inside of him was destroyed. Only if a container (in this case Harry) is destroyed beyond magical repair can the soul leave. Death is being destroyed beyond magical repair. Harry stayed alive only because of Voldy. He had the blood protection inside of him, which acted as a horcrux for Harry to stay alive. They both had to die in order for both to be able to die. This is part of the meaning of the prophecy: "Neither can live while the other survives."
73** Technically, Harry's blood in Voldemort is what ''kept him from dying'' in the forest, coupled with things like him willingly offering himself to be killed, meaning the Elder Wand didn't recognize Voldemort's Killing Curse as a defeat, since he did so with Harry's consent, meaning it still couldn't be used to kill its master. However, I believe what's implied is that the Elder Wand killed what little part of Harry in Harry that ''wasn't'' Harry - that is to say, the bit of Voldemort's soul that had latched onto him - and the rest of Harry was subsequently dragged into limbo with it, resulting in him having the choice to come back.
74* Voldemort deduced that he wasn't the true master of the Elder Wand because it didn't conjure any differently from his own wand. He decided he had to kill Snape to master the wand and so he did and...then what? Shouldn't he have realised that the wand ''still'' performed on the same level as before and thus that something was wrong? Or what, in that hour when he was waiting for Harry to come to him, he didn't even test the wand at least once? He did use the Sonorus spell to demand Harry to come, so what the hell?
75** It's likely that he didn't think anything else could go wrong after he'd killed the previous master (in his mind Snape). Regardless he was probably very distracted by killing the only one that could defeat him and by that point ''didn't care'' that the wand didn't feel stronger.
76** Why are your hands suddenly moving in such...wavery motion?
77* All right, so the above discussion on the Elder Wand didn't seem to address this one. Harry was supposedly the master of the Elder Wand because he disarmed the previous master. But he didn't actually take it from said previous master. He won Draco's own personal wand. So we're supposed to believe that the Elder Wand allies itself with whoever disarms its master of ''any'' wand at ''any'' time? And if this is the case, Harry putting the wand away at the end so that the chain would be broken wouldn't really do much, would it, because if he ever got disarmed ''at all'', the wand would then have a new master...?
78** True however it depends on whether he wants to be disarmed or not. Dumbledore's original plan wanted him to be disarmed by Snape and thus the loyalty would never have left him. However he didn't want Draco to disarm him thus change in loyalty. If Harry did get disarmed against his will it will then depend on where Harry hid the Elder Wand. It wouldn't matter who was the master if the wand had stayed in Dumbledore's grave.
79** I just took it to mean that the Elder Wand has a very generous definition of "defeat". If its current owner loses at ''anything'', the Wand goes to the other guy instead. In theory, the Elder Wand could be transferred in a game of Rock Paper Scissors. Meaning that for Dumbledore to have held onto it for as long as he did, he had to win ''every battle, competition, and game'' in his life.
80** It may just be that Voldemort had ''never'' been the wand's master. It went from Dumbledore to Draco to Harry. It's possible that if Harry had defeated Draco somehow, but Draco still got his hands on the Elder Wand, it would still have worked for him. Rowling is (possibly intentionally) vague on the rules of wand ownership, probably because she'd spent the last decade or so putting up with everyone questioning and picking apart every magical rule she laid down.
81** Okay, but still none of you have addressed the issue (as the OP so long ago, I know what I was asking, and it still bugs me to this day). ''"And if this is the case, Harry putting the wand away at the end so that the chain would be broken wouldn't really do much, would it, because if he ever got disarmed ''at all'', the wand would then have a new master...?"''
82** There are two possibilities:
83** 1: Harry never allows himself to be defeated outside of consenting duels, or defeats anyone who defeats him.
84** Or 2: Harry intends to be disarmed at some point, and then let that person be disarmed, etc, until the true Master of the Elder Wand is lost simply through lack of knowledge of who actually owns it.
85** That one's my personal take on the matter. If Harry's smart, the first thing he'll do after departing from Hogwarts is Apparate to a Muggle pub and pick a fight, until "ownership" of the Wand has passed from person to person enough that ''no one'' knows who its Master is. The Wand's power would therefore be forever consigned to be wasted on Muggles who have never even heard of it, and thus be functionally "broken."
86** Also, when it say defeated, it means: being killed, stunned or disarmed, through physical or magical action, without ones consent. Thus, Snape killing Dumbledore would not have transferred the allegiance of the wand as Dumbledore asked for it, but Harry punching Malfoy and taking the wands did.
87* Maybe that's why they changed the ending in the movie: Harry snaps the wand and throws over the bridge that leads to Hogwarts, into a river IIRC. You think one of the scriptwriters saw this page?
88* Grindelwald stole the Useless Stick from Gregorovich and that '''counts''' as Mastery: Riddle stole the Useless Stick from DD and that does '''not''' count as Mastery because???
89** My best guess is that it was because Gregorovitch tried to stop him. If he had just let him go the Wand's power would not have transferred, but since he started to run after Grindelwald and was Stunned in return, the conditions for "winning" the Wand were apparently satisfied (whereas they obviously could not if stolen from an unmoving corpse).
90** No, it was because by the time V stole the Wand, DD had already lost its ownership to Draco.
91** The Wand Chooses the Wizard. Rowling makes this pretty clear. The Elder wand was cool with it.
92** The movie messed up the scene with Grindelwald. The book has Grindelwald stealing the wand, but staying long enough to hit Gregorovich with a spell to defeat him.
93* So Ollivander never knew Dumbledore had the Elder Wand then? Shame, and bits of TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot. How did Dumbledore keep his wand secreted away when Ollivander was around? Were there close calls? Would Ollivander have recognized this strange wand didn't match the one he knew Dumbledore had? How would Ollivander have reacted to holding it, being able to identify the composition of every wand he ever held?
94** Dumbledore might have just taken out his own pre-Elder wand when Ollivander came by. Or Ollivander might assume Albus bought his from someplace else.
95** Also, how do we know Ollivander knows what the Elder Wand looks like? All he told Voldemort about it was just rumors and legends...Was there any confirmation that he's actually seen it before?
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97* By what criteria does the Elder Wand measure "defeat?" Because if I owned a gun, and someone came up to me, took my gun, and shot me with it, and ''killed me with it'', not only would I consider that "defeat", it's a humiliating defeat. When Voldemort kills Harry using the Elder Wand the first time, that's not "defeat." But when Dumbledore is merely ''disarmed'' by Draco, it '''is'''?
98** Voldemort knocked himself out with that AK too, so it probably counted as a draw rather than as defeating Harry.
99** I think one of the requirements for allegiance to switch is that the witch or wizard has to be defeated without their consent. Harry willingly went into the forest do die, hence, Voldemort wasn't ''proving'' anything when he tried to kill him. Also, not only was Voldemort not the master of the Elder Wand at that time, but he had also tried using it to cast the Killing Curse right at the person who ''was'' the master, which may have swayed the wand's decision as well.
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101* Why is it that Voldemort fails to grasp something about how mastery of the Elder Wand transfers? When he decided that the Elder Wand was no different in his hands from any other, he decides that he needs to kill Snape, since Snape presumably became the Master of the wand after Dumbledore's death. BUT HE KNOWS DIFFERENTLY! He questioned Gregorovitch, who had the wand stolen from him by Grindelwald without a duel, without a disarming spell, without a killing. Why did he forget this fact and not start investigating the chain of events that led up to Dumbledore's death and learn that prior to being killed, Dumbledore had been disarmed by Draco?
102** Just because you can claim the ownership without killing, doesn't mean killing is not a valid option. V's reasoning was that ling before he stole the Wand, it had already switched allegiance to Snape, who'd killed it's master, hence V needs to claim its allegiance from Snape, and since he cannot steal the Wand from Sev, he has to "defeat" him. Sure, stunning might probably work, but for Voldemort MurderIsTheBestSolution. Of course, you'd think that after the Death Eaters returned from their raid, he'd want to hear or see how exactly his nemesis died, so Drako's disarming of DD would've been revealed, but that's just me.
103** VOLDEMORT has both the Elder Wand and a spare wand, borrowed from Rookwood for the occasion. He tosses the Elder Wand to Snape, who catches it without thinking. Voldemort cries out; "EXPELLIARMUS!" and retrieves the Elder Wand from where Snape had dropped it. "Thank you, Severus. Now go back to being my only Death Eater who hasn't managed to screw up at least one major assignment."
104** However, in any case, after killing Snape, V should've realised that the Wand still didn't perform up to specs, so something was wrong. So why doesn't he?
105*** Because he doesn't cast anything that would give it away until it's far too late and all he has left is his arrogance and denile.
106** Another aspect of the Elder Wand that Voldemort likely was never told was that Thestral Hair was one of the trickiest cores to control and only those who could accept death could master the wand it was in. Since Voldy feared death, the core was antithetical to his mastery of the Elder Wand.
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108* Even after Harry snaps the Elder Wand (or returns it to Dumbledore's tomb, in the book), and especially if you don't believe the Tale of the Three Brothers was entirely true...Isn't there always a possibility that someone could just make a new Elder Wand? Its only two components were wood from an elder tree and a Thestral-tail core.
109** It's a little more difficult than that, remember, Goblins, master smiths, who forged the sword of Godric Gryffindor, don't know how to make wands, while the wood and the core are the main components there is probably all sorts of enchantments and jiggery-pokery needed to turn a stick with a strand of hair into a functional wand. The Preverell brothers, Dumbledore guessed, where actual three extraordinarily powerful wizards, the amount of work that went into them, even Ollivander probably couldn't replicate it, hell Gregorovitch tried, and couldn't.
110** The wands helped wizards hone their magical skills while wands learned from the wizards' mastery of magic. The Elder Wand was nearly 700 years old by the time of Harry Potter's life and it had been in the hands of some of the most powerful wizards of their age. It had centuries to learn from all of those wizards.
111[[/folder]]
112
113[[folder: The Resurrection Stone]]
114* Like all the other Hallows, it is useless and does '''not''' do what it says on the can. To Peverell, it sent him a hologram of his dead girlfriend who persuaded him to suicide. To Harry, it sent him holograms of his family who persuaded etc.
115** It's ''not'' useless. It does one, very useful thing: it brings the souls of the dead onto the mortal plane. This backfired for Cadmus, because he couldn't bear the grief of being next to the soul of his beloved without being truly able to connect with her. But it doesn't have an independant "drives people to suicide" spell on it, it's just the effect it had on Cadmus due to the soul he recalled being that of his dead girlfriend. It ''could'' be very useful, in a more pragmatic way. For instance, you can call back a murder victim and asks them who did it. You can call back Fermat and ask him what that proof of that last theorem ''was''. Etc. Etc. Also, you can call anybody at all and ask them what the Afterlife is like, and write that down and make it public, finally lifting these issues for good.
116** Seing how "the can label" pretty much amounts to legends and fairy tales, you can't safely claim that you ''know'' what it is ''supposed'' to do.
117* Grindelwald and Dumbledore were searching for the Deathly Hallows. Tom Riddle openly wore the Peverell ring while he was a student at Hogwarts. [[http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Marvolo_Gaunt%27s_Ring]] So why did Dumbledore never try to confiscate it? And why didn't Gellert ever pay Tom a visit?
118** Just because Riddle wore it openly doesn't necessarily mean that anyone would instantly be able to identify the stone in the ring as ''the'' Resurrection Stone, and Dumbledore might not have even considered that the elusive Hallow was right under his nose at the time. As far as Riddle, and anyone else knew, the ring was just a family heirloom, a symbol of status but with no actual powers on its own.
119** That doesn't really wash, because when Dumbledore went Horcrux hunting later, the second he saw the ring he was all like, "Yeah, that's the Resurrection Stone all right, better pop it on my finger oh no I instantly regret that decision." His familiarity with the Stones goes back to his own teenaged years, so are we to believe he studied the Hollows extensively, failed to recognize the Stone when he saw it, but successfully recognized it when he saw it again, decades later?
120** There's a difference between Dumbledore being alone with the ring and being able to stare at it at his leisure in the Gaunt hovel and catching glimpses of it on Riddle's finger. In the first instance he probably took a good look at it since, y'know, Horcrux, and thus saw the insignia and realized what it was; while Riddle was wearing it Dumbledore wouldn't have been looking long enough to notice.'
121** Except for the fact that even if he missed it on Riddle's finger, the next time he would have seen it is in Bob Ogden's memory when the Ministry went to the house of Gaunt because of Morfin's crimes against the Riddle family. And Gaunt was all like "“See this ring? Centuries old, Peverell coat of arms on it and everything.” You know the Peverells, the three brothers linked with the origin of the Deathly Hollows, and their coat of arms, the sign of the Deathly Hollows? And Dumbledore, the guy who had been searching for the RS for years, missed the connection between the Stone and a ring passed down to the descendants of the Peverell family and didn't recognize it when it was practically waved in front of his face?
122** Was it ever stated when Dumbledore found and viewed that memory? Maybe it was a bit before he found it inside the shack, and was like, "Wait, did he say Peverell? Could that be the Resurrection Stone?" And then when he finds it, he's all like, "Holy Horcrux, it ''is'' the Resurrection Stone! I'm gonna put this ring on right now so I can use it to contact my dead sister! ...Oh, shoot, what a horrible idea!" He found the ring sometime between the fifth and sixth books, and since the question asked was "Why didn't he recognize it when Tom was at school?", that's the answer - he didn't have access to even the memory for a good look, let alone the actual ring, until Tom had already left the school.
123* Hold on, this troper is confused. How is the RS useless? No, it doesn't bring the dead back to life fully, but it does protect Harry when he activates it; he's able to slip past Voldie's defenses right to his inner circle. One could assume that the stone/the ghosts from the stone would do the same for anyone who activated it, although it might have just been ThePowerOfLove yet again helping Harry out. (Rowling hasn't said either way, I'm guessing?)
124** Even if it was something more than ThePowerOfLove, those are still incredibly specific circumstances in which it could prove to be useful. Most people, magic and Muggle alike, wouldn't have as much foreseeable use for a stone that brings phantoms of the deceased back into existence, as they would a powerful, unbeatable wand (which could just be used to cast defensive spells, including a Patronus) or a cloak of invisibility (which Harry could've used to sneak past everything undeterred). The ambiguity surrounding the effects these phantoms have only further undermines its usefulness - how is anyone supposed to know for sure that it'll work when they need it to?
125** The tale ''points out'' it doesn't bring the dead back to life, so (presumably) anyone who found it and knew what it was and what it was supposed to do after the Peverell brother used it and word got around wouldn't be getting duped; they'd know they were only going to get to spend a little more time with their family/loved one(s), and even then they'd be little more than ghosts. Naturally this wouldn't stop some people from following said brothers' example, unfortunately, but one can always hope.
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127
128* Why did Dumbledore feel the need to put the ring on in the first place? Harry activates the Stone by fumbling with it; are we to believe that Dumbledore, the genius wizard who's been fascinated by the Hallows his whole life, couldn't figure out how to make it work?
129** Less a need, more a whimsy. Touching the ring at all was explicitly a lapse in judgment on Dumbledore's part brought on by emotion, not a calculated thing, so I can see how in the moment he'd put the ring on his finger.
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131* How does it still work when Harry gets it? Dumbledore de-Horcruxed the ring by hitting its stone with the basilisk-venom-infused goblin-wrought Sword of Gryffindor. If the ring was destroyed sufficiently to destroy the soul fragment bound within it, and it was destroyed by hitting the stone so hard it fractured, how come the stone is sufficiently non-destroyed to still summon the dead?
132** Best I've got is that the venom was potent enough to kill the Horcrux, but not potent enough to destroy the stronger Hallow enchantments. I mean, the Horcrux is just a fragment of soul, and the Hallow is specifically supposed to have dominion over souls, so I can buy that the Hallow magic was strong enough to survive where the Horcrux couldn't. It's not a ''great'' explanation, since the way Horcruxes are described implies that the soul should be just as resilient as its container, but from an in-universe standpoint it works as a handwave.
133** The resilience of a Horcrux is explained by ''inverting'' the soul's durability the soul's durability with that of the container. When an object is turned into a Horcrux, it's no longer an inanimate object but also the piece of the soul in a material form. Killing the Horcrux returns the object to it's original material state. So what may be powerful enough to ''kill'' the ring did not necessarily destroy the pre-existing properties components that made the ring. As long as the stone was not completely cleaved in two, it's properties remained.
134** The sword was impregnated with basilisk venom which was one of the few substances that could get rid of horcruxes. The sword had no effect on any other aspect of other forms of magic on an object.
135
136* If Cadmus Peverell was DrivenToSuicide after trying to revive TheLostLenore--who died before he could marry her, how did he have decedents onto whom he could pass the ring? If it was inherited by one of Ignotus' children then why did Marvolo Gaunt claim Cadmus as a direct ancestor?
137** People can have children without needing to be married.
138*** These day. 1,000+ years ago they would have had ye olde shotgun wedding once she started showing.
139*** Then who says he didn't marry a different woman, and had a child with her? He didn't necessarily have to love the woman, like he did his original fiancée. Then either she died, or Cadmus used the Resurrection Stone while still married to her. Or, the whole 'before they could marry' part was another creative liberty put into ''The Tale of the Three Brothers''.
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141[[/folder]]
142
143[[folder: The Invisibility Cloak]]
144* So, if Harry's cloak is the unbeatable artifact it's claimed to be, what's stopping the owner of the cloak from just waltzing up behind someone and nailing them with a killing curse? Invisibility isn't a defense, it's a weapon. If somebody had realized this, wouldn't it have made the climactic battle at the end decidedly less climactic, and by extension, bloody for the Hogwarts side?
145** Harry only has one cloak. Plus, I'm sure you can just imagine the chaos if everyone stopped and went "Harry, quick! Gimme that coat!"
146** The legend behind the cloak is inflated and Harry knows that. Moody's eye can see through the cloak as is evidenced in book 4. Who's to say that 'Homenum revelio' wouldn't reveal his location instantly for someone to take him out after he got one or two enemies down? Invisibility is a good tactic but that alone won't win the war. Besides at that time he was using it to hide himself rather than attack others.
147* This irritates me more than anything else in this story: The Invisibilty Cloak. Its job is to keep you concealed from detection. The Deathly Hallows Invisibility Cloak is supposed to be the '''ultimate''' invisibility cloak. What should an ultimate invisibility cloak do? Well in a world full of magic, such a cloak would be able to keep you concealed from EVERYTHING, right? Not a single spell could penetrate it, no wizard or witch, no matter how powerful would be able to see through it, nor would any magical creature - not even DEATH HIMSELF could see you wearing it. ''"Constant and impenetrable concealment"'' Yet Mrs. Norris can see through it, Dementors can see through it, Moody's eye can see through it, Luna's weird glasses can see through it, and half a dozen times in both the books and the movies people around Harry seem to be able to sense his presence, despite the fact that he's supposedly wearing the "Ultimate Invisibility Cloak".
148** The most common counter I get is that "the cloak's true power is not wearing out like other normal cloaks". To me this is silly because if this cloak does a poor job of concealing you from such a vast number of eyes and spells, then who cares how long it lasts? I'd rather have a cloak with a finite lifespan that keeps me hidden from ''everything'' no matter what, rather than a flawed cloak that can be seen through by so many exceptions that lasts forever. Regardless of whether it was Death or Ignotus Peverell that made it, you'd think in making an Ultimate Invisibility Cloak you'd put a big emphasis on the primary function, rather than lifespan (but then again, why not create a cloak that has BOTH?).
149** Who says "that a cloak with a finite lifespan that keeps me hidden from everything no matter what" is even ''possible''? There's absolutely no indication throughout the books that "lesser" cloaks (such as those owned by Barty Crouch and Alastor Moody) are immune to magical detection; indeed, as Sturgis Podmore was detected under Moody's cloak by Lucius Malfoy, we could possible infer that they may be even ''less'' effective in that regard. Certainly they're likely to be Summonable, which the Third Hallow is not; in other words, the "true Cloak" has all of the strengths of its imitators and a few others besides, while sharing some but not all of their weaknesses. Any weaknesses that still exist may simply have been beyond the Peverells' power to avert.
150** Who says a wand that can beat any other is even possible? Who says a stone that can resurrect the dead is even possible? Asking whether or not something is even possible seems rather moot when you consider we're talking about a ''world of magic'' and especially a '''legendary magical artifact'''. Why ''wouldn't'' a cloak that can conceal you from everything that lasts forever be possible?
151** This seems to be an even more pertinent point with regards to the original legend: The cloak wasn't extremely special because the guy wore it his whole life, it was special because it '''hid the man from death itself.''' And yes, since the over-arching moral of that fairy tale was "You cannot escape death" then the cloak's ability to ''hide'' things had better be legendarily good, even if it can't actually make a person immortal just by wearing it.
152** Another thing: The Elder Wand beats any other wand, without fail. The Resurrection Stone brings back anyone's spirit from the dead, without fail. These two things have a good reason to be legendary. But then we get to the cloak, which fails at concealing you from all kinds of things, but its mediocre invisibility lasts forever. Who wants that? Also, lots of people like to {{Handwave}} its mediocrity by stating that it probably wasn't created by Death, and thus it's a human creation with flaws, despite its fellow Hallows being flawless in their respective abilities. So if it wasn't created by Death, and it's such a flawed device, then '''WHAT'S SO SPECIAL ABOUT IT?'''
153** You're working from a false premise. The Elder Wand ''cannot'' beat any other wand without fail; in fact, it is probably the Hallow that has been outright overpowered the ''most,'' since that is one of the very few ways to take it and successfully use it. The Wand's power has been inflated by reputation just as much as the Cloak's has; it has a lot of raw magical energy, sure, most likely because it is particularly well-crafted and possesses a very unique core, but it can still be bested in a duel if the opponent is skilled enough (i.e. Dumbledore). And as for the Stone, it's the Hallow that's used the least so we don't really know much about its strengths ''or'' weaknesses, but presumably it has them. The "shades" seem to have no abilities other than speech and Dementor-protection, and fade after a while...not to mention that whole, ya know, "[[DrivenToSuicide could drive a less stable man to suicide]] out of longing" thing.
154** You gotta be kidding me. Your list of people, things and creatures who can see through the Cloak is flawed at best. Mrs. Norris CAN'T see through it, this is only something Harry has entertained some times. She can probably tell Harry is there because she's a f-ing cat! She can hear and smell him. Dementors not only CAN'T see through the Cloak but they can't see ANYTHING. They only sense the person's presence; again, similar to the cat. And Luna can only see through in the movie, get your facts right. We don't really know what Moody's eye in fact does. It's possible that he can't really see through the Cloak - but he infers that there is someone invisible there because he can't see through the things that are behind the Cloaked person. And I would like to mention the Cloak's other incredible powers no one seems to remember: it cannot be summoned and you can fire spells from under it! So, even though it is solid, you can point your wand at something from underneath and not simply set the whole thing on fire! It can block light, but allow your spells to pass through. This is amazing.
155** I recall from ''Goblet of Fire'' that Harry was waving to Moody and silently mouthing "It's mine!", which was what prompted Moody to retrieve the Marauder's Map he had dropped; Moody had to have seen Harry explicitly in order for that to have happened. He saw Harry through the cloak.
156** Also, you say Mrs. Norris could sense Harry simply because she's a cat? So the ''Legendary Cloak of Invisibility'' can hide you from '''DEATH HIMSELF''' but it can't hide you from a '''cat'''???
157*** Because cats not only use their eyes, they have also very superior sense of smell and hearing, we don’t really know if Mrs. Norris sees under the cloak, we only know that Harry things so, but is just possible that he never thought that she just smells him, as any normal cat would. Besides, who cares if the cloak do not hide you from… a house cat? Kind of nitpicking; “Damn, this cloak protected me from those giants and that dragon, but my grandma’s pet sees me, this isn’t really something especial!”.
158** Even if we accept that the cloak actually came from Death and isn't just a product of the Peverell's own magic power, we should remember that it's actually a part of Death's own cloak. The magic that produced it would be specific to Death, so it makes a degree of sense that it would work on him better than others.
159** It's a cloak of invisibility, it makes the user invisible, that's it's only function. Doesn't matter if Death itself can't see through it, since the wearer is still noisy and can be smelled or touched. Not only that but it's magic would have been designed only to block Death, it's the equivilent of asking why a charm that heal nosebleeds doesn't fix a broken arm, they're completely different things.
160** I think it needs mentioned that Luna never actually saw ''through'' the cloak. Her Spectre Specs let her see the "nargles" that were buzzing around Harry at the time. As for Mrs. Norris, as stated above, it is alluded that her other senses were likely what tipped her off to the prescense of an invisible Harry. In ''TheGobletOfFire'', it's directly mentioned that Harry regreted using so much of the scented soaps and foams in the prefects' bathroom, while investigating the Second Task clue. Moody's Eye? Well, that's something I hadn't considered, but it's established as Awesome, yet Practical, so we can let it slide.
161** Even more so than that: FridgeBrilliance time. Being ''the'' Cloak of Invisibility, the Cloak has some degree of foresight and intelligence. So, when in Book 1 the Cloak senses Dumbledore waiting for Harry, it knows Dumbledore is trying to save Harry from being consumed by the mirror, so it allows Dumbledore to see through the Cloak - thus protecting Harry far better than if it had just blocked all magic. It also realises fake!Moody means no harm (yet) and could help Harry, so lets the eye (which Dumbledore probably enchanted with the Elder Wand), There is further evidence for this in that in Book 7, when Harry & Co. Apparate to the booby-trapped Hogsmeade, they are not discovered, when you would think that the Death Eaters would have had spells to sense presence, like Dumbledore did in Book 1: the Cloak knows that harry's in very deep crap, so keeps him hidden. Come to think of it, it could also have alerted Aberforth to the danger. Mrs. Norris never actually tells on Harry - it's probably always his imagination. Luna seeing through it is only in the film.
162** At this point I'd like to point out it's called the Cloak of ''Invisibility'', not the Cloak of ''Nothing Can Detect Me''. You can't reasonably expect the thing (when it's stated only to give invisibility) to hide you from anything. As for Mad-Eye seeing through it... maybe it only gave him an infrared signature on Harry, which allowed him to see Harry waving his arms when Snape was about to take the map.
163** Some things to consider in the discussion where people compare the cat hearing/sensing him and Death not finding him. 1) The whole death thing was a legend - stated outright to (probably) be untrue. So, if Peverell made the cloak himself (as DD posits) then it's still a cloak made by a human and therefore liable to not be completely infallible - how was Peverell to know that at some point in the distant future there would be an Auror so badass that he had a magical eye that could look through anything else? In the case of the cat, it does what it's supposed to do, which is hide him from Mrs. Noriss's eyes. However, she can hear him and keeps looking in his direction, because that's what cats do when they hear something: they keep watching until they find out what made the noise or get bored when they don't see anything. An intelligent cat like Mrs. Norris would probably keep looking longer. And 2)If we suppose the whole Death tale to be true, then it can still be possible - Death has more to do than scour every corner of every place where the brother could possibly be - you know, like visiting people he CAN see and taking them with him. So he's unlikely to ever be close enough to detect him in the same way that the cat detected Harry.
164** The “''is the Cloak of Invisibility, not the Cloak of Nothing Can Detect Me''” is a good point, let’s see: Isn´t Dumbledore telepathic (Legilimency)? so he could at the very least perceive that Harry was under the cloak in Hagrid’s cabin for example, Mrs. Norris smells him, Moody’s Eye might perceive heath for example (we don’t really know how it works but it makes sense, it could be one of its functions to perceive changes in temperature around) therefore he sees Harry and co. under the cloak as body heath silhouettes, that or effectively as said before the cloak cause a distortion in the X-Ray effect of his eye, Dementors are blind and only feel emotions and Luna’s case was a movie in-joke. Though the idea that the cloak is sentient and can choose when to show his user to a possible ally is a very cool idea too.
165** Even if you accept the children's story, Moody's eye itself could be the product of an {{anthropomorphic personification}} or {{physical god}}. If you don't, and the cloak is just a brilliant human invention, well, then so is the eye. Depending on how much Harry tells people "the magical" eye may become an object of legend itself.
166** The tale has to be a legend anyway. It is impossible that the younger brother spent several years hiding from Death under the cloak, he had to eat and wash and other stuffs that needed him to be outside the cloak at times.
167** Not exactly. He could just eat while under the cloak, and use magic to keep himself clean. Or, he only wore the cloak most of the time but took breaks when he felt he needed or wanted to. I personally think the legend is real.
168** Alright, but if you have to expend your life under a cloak... yeah at some point you'll be wishing for Death to come.
169** As has been stated, it is the Cloak of Invisibility, not the Cloak of Inaudibility or the Cloak of Disodorant. Mrs. Norris could sense Harry under the cloak as she could smell him and hear him walking. Even in the first movie, Snape could hear Harry breathing while Harry was under the cloak. The cloak is, however, incredibly resistant to damage. It was about 700 years old and had no damage from any spells even though multiple spells had likely been shot at it. And remember, the story wasn't that all you had to do was use the cloak to make you untouchable, it was that the third brother was wise and used it in the right ways to be able to live a full and long life.
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173[[folder: How come the Order doesn't Apparate right outside the anti Apparation jinx]]
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