Line #54 Headscratchers/EverybodyLovesRaymond


1	* This is my nitpick of the entire series, but I think it also qualifies as a headscratcher. WHY in the living hell didn't Debra ever have an open discussion with the elder Barones about her feelings? The series openly established that Frank and Marie were as dense as bricks, and had no idea of the disruption they caused to the younger Barones' home. But instead of complaining about it for nine years and crucifying Ray at every instance, wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense for Debra to tell Frank and Marie just once how she felt about them barging into their house every day? Over the course of 210 episodes, Debra confronted Marie over this just ONE TIME ("The Letter"), and it was swept under the rug at the conclusion of the episode. The whole thing is made worse with the fact that the series paints Debra as an AlphaBitch and makes Ray the one who is too scared to stand up to his parents, while in reality Debra has no more of a backbone than he does in regard to the elder Barones.
2	** That's part of the "humor". Notice how anytime Ray tries to point out that Debra is the one to have a problem with anything, she immediately hides and tells Raymond not to make it about her.
3	** She does directly confront Marie more than once besides in "The Letter" - there's also the episode where Debra tries to be nice to Marie by just accepting her criticisms in 4x09, "No Thanks." Debra eventually cracks because Marie's condescension remains ceaseless, and tells her exactly what she thinks of Marie's never-ending criticism. Marie fails to understand even with having it spelled out to her that she is doing something wrong. When Debra goes to Robert and Ray for support, they refuse to say anything, even though they know what Debra is talking about. There's also episodes like "Marie's Meatballs" where even when Marie is caught out for behaving poorly, she manages to guilt even Debra into letting her off the hook. Marie is just that good at manipulating people and playing the victim. As for Frank, no one in the series minces words with what they think of Frank's behavior - Frank just blatantly doesn't care.
4	* Where are the stairs in Frank and Marie's house? They presumably have an upstairs and a basement, and yet neither of these two staircases are ever shown onscreen.
5	** Possibly in the hallway.
6	* So Robert, a seasoned NYPD sergeant/lieutenant, never put two and two together that the "colored sugar water" his mother gave him as a kid was alcohol? He even explained that he would drink it and it would knock him right out...duh!! Not exactly a huge mystery. Even so, being 40+ by then, he had never tasted Sambuca since then and recognized its taste?
7	** Well, Robert does mention it in a nostalgic sense, and on some level he might've not put the pieces together because he subconsciously didn't want to ruin one of the only great memories of his mother. His memory and mind was protecting him from the AwfulTruth in a sense. Considering what kind of mother he had, I ''completely'' understand... (This part is meant as a joke).
8	* Robert Barone appears to be forever short of money, at one point receiving a cash gift from Ray and Debra to help out his finances. Question: ''where does it go?'' He lives, rent-free, at his parents. With full board. He is a police sergeant, later a lieutenant. I've looked up the pay scales for sergeants and lieutenants in the NYPD. Compared to the average American wage, they seem to be on quite a good deal. So he should not be short of cash? His first marriage was childless, so any settlement on Joanne should have been minimal, even negligible: with no kids the sensible thing to do would have been to sell their house and split any residual cash fifty-fifty. While he was taken for a mug over the male model thing for $2,000, it's only this once. So by rights Robert should have quite a tidy sum to his name after nineteen years on the force and two promotions?
9	** Some TruthInTelevision, some people are good at managing their money, others aren't, and apparently, Robert wasn't. Some people know how to save onto their pennies, manage their budgets, and set aside the right about of earnings they have for necessities (utilities, rent, insurance, groceries, things like that), whereas other people are a little more extravagent, and spend all of their money on things they want, and wind up with not enough left over to cover all of their living expenses. There was one episode where Ray and Deb loaned Robert some money, but then were incensed to learn that he was going to spend it on a trip to Vegas. And let's not forget that Robert is a bit of a ManChild (well, okay, more than a bit), and all those years of mooching and sponging off Frank and Marie, he probably didn't really learn too much about fiscal responsibility.
10	*** It isn't so much that he's short on money as that he's literally short on food as well when he has a doting mother that has been shown numerous times to arrive with various gourmet dishes for her children, even after they got married. All he has is in his fridge is bologna and Sunny D, but this seems unlikely when we've seen episodes where Marie was packing a cooler full of specially prepared meals, and it's not as if Robert shows any hesitation in hanging around at their house even after he's moved out and he's well aware Marie loves taking care of her children, so why doesn't he ask her for some food? Pride seems a flimsy reason when other episodes show that he's willing to lop off an arm just to get whatever scraps of affection he can.
11	** Robert's plan upon getting money from Raymond and Debra was to blow that on the slots because "(he's) not lucky", even though playing the slots relies entirely on luck. It's pretty clear he's poor at managing his money.
12	** I don't think Robert was "forever short of money." He hit a rough spot in "Robert Needs Money" when the police force reduced his pay, but he was actually implied to have a good bit stashed away earlier in the series when he lived with his parents. Remember in "The Checkbook" he was able to lend Ray $3,000 without batting an eye.
13	* I don't remember the title of the episode, or the specifics, but Ally was invited to a rather formal party where she and her friends would wear dresses. Debra was particularly supportive of Ally's interest in going. Ray, however, didn't find the concept appealing because it looked like they'd be paying for a dress she'd only wear once, and he attempts to persuade the other parents to make the party more casual. Naturally, this puts Ray at odds with Debra. In the end, he relents and gets Ally a dress for the party, but when they arrive, they discover the other parents have decided to make the party more casual after all, making Ally run off upset, and Debra gives Ray the evil eye? This is just one instance of Ray's InformedWrongness which honestly ticks me off.
14	** Didn't she just give Ray a snide remark about how everything was back to normal? Also, wasn't she more ticked that Ray bought her the dress after making such a big deal out of it (and the episode's ending turned out to be a huge subversion of {{Informed Wrongness}} except Ray being the ButtMonkey meant he had no idea and therefore got screwed out of being right).
15	*** Debra said sarcastically "Congratulations, you're a good father" I believe, something like that. That's even worse, because now it's implied that Ray is a bad father because of his mistake. Nobody told him the plans had changed, he didn't want to see Ally upset and it's not like we WANTED her to be the only one with formal dress. Debra could be a lot more sympathetic. And again, Ray only bought the dress for Ally after making a big deal about how unfair he found it for the sake of his daughter.
16	*** The "congratulations, you're a successful parent" was a reference to Frank's stated opinion earlier in the episode that "If your kids like you, then you've failed as parents!" Her tone seemed to be more wry than snide. There was no "evil eye."
17	* Another annoying example of Ray's {{Informed Wrongness}} was the whole "Lateness" episode. Seriously, the message of that episode is that Debra apparently can do whatever she wants and Ray shouldn't expect her to live up to her agreements.
18	** Examples like this episode and the "special dress" episode mentioned above, I have found that any episode where Debra has a somewhat large part, I can't watch anymore.
19	*** Same here.
20	** Wasn't her hair caught in a curling iron? And was it really so much to go inside for a minute to find out what happened?
21	*** True, but, if the situation was reversed and it was Ray who was the one that made them late and they agreed that, if he wasn't ready by a set time then Debra would leave, she [[DoubleStandard would be portrayed as being absolutely justified in leaving the SECOND that the agreed time passed]].
22	*** That, and there was no way for Ray to know what happened, and the only reason she got the curling iron stuck in her hair is because she was mucking about with what already looked fine, which is the whole reason she made them late in the first place.
23	*** And, if he had gone in to check, it still would have meant that Ray isn't supposed to expect Debra to live up to her end of the bargain. The deal was the Ray would leave at a specific time, whether Debra was in the car or not. If Ray had gone in to see what was holding her up, he still would have been admitting that Debra is free to do as she pleases, no matter what.
24	*** This was the agreement they made beforehand: Ray would wait downstairs while Debra got ready to go out. If she wasn't down in time, Ray could leave without her. She wasn't downstairs, so Ray left. Remember: DEBRA AGREED TO THE AIS PLAN. She could have gone down and told him about the problem, or yelled down the stairs for help, but she didn't. No matter how you look at it, Debra was wrong here.
25	** The point was probably that the AIS rule was ridiculous in and of itself.
26	** The episode has a deeper level to it: Debra is always telling Ray that he lacks an inner life, that all he cares about is food, sex, and sports, and that he should access his feelings and talk about them. In this argument, he does exactly that by telling her that her lateness makes him feel like she doesn't care about him. So in not living up to the deal, Debra's proving to him that she doesn't really care.
27	* The extent to which this show started to employ the {{Parenting The Husband}} trope in the later seasons. This alone is annoying in and of itself.
28	* DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale. The fact that the show kept using this trope and portraying it as being justified was irksome and just plain bad. If Ray and Debra's roles were reversed, the studio audience probably wouldn't be cheering so much.
29	** Forget cheering, the script wouldn't have made it to the first read-through.
30	* Debra's obvious emotional instability never being addressed is something that just bugs me. Given that on EVERY episode she portrayed as being nitpicky, very insecure, whiny and always unsatisfied w/the majority of things that Ray does, doesn't anyone else think that DEBRA is the problem and not Ray? How often could somebody sit there and be criticized for things that aren't that important or for things that aren't actually THAT BAD by a loved one before they seriously considered that their loved one might have a mental or emotional illness?
31	** Ray Romano was at least aware of this, if Ray Barone wasn't. In an HBO comedy showcase after ''Series/EverybodyLovesRaymond'' was off the air, he said something like "You have no idea how many times on the show I wanted to say 'Shut the fuck up, Debra!'"
32	*** That actually makes the whole thing pretty sad, when you figure that the actual actor was suffering through some of the same Hell, as well as apparently having so little control over a show with his name on it. Clearly he should have taken some contract negotiation tips from Drew Carey.
33	*** It wasn't anything like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6uOl5Y6qo (at 3:15-ish, he starts talking about it. Romano was joking about not being able to swear and curse on nine years of a regular show. I'm sure he didn't think he was in some kind of man-hating, abusive Hell, especially since he was a top-level creative force on the show (he and friend Phil Rosenthal based it off of their experiences in marriage).
34	** You have to admit though that Ray's character spent a lot of time being lazy idiot, lying to Debra about all sorts of things and doing everything he can to get out of hard work. This is still an unfair portrayal of men, but Debra's attitude does make sense in context. Granted, there are several occasions where her actions ''are'' wrong, but one cannot possibly say that she is out of line all the time.
35	* The attempts to justify Debra's behavior. It really needs to be said that if the roles were reversed and Ray was the abuser, ''no one'' would be trying to defend him. But due to {{DoubleStandard}}s, apparently Debra is innocent.
36	** Not innocent. A flawed character on a show filled with flawed characters whose flaws are generally for the purposes of humor, and not meant to be taken too seriously.
37	*** Spousal abuse is not meant to be taken seriously? UnfortunateImplications abound.
38	*** You would really hate ''ComicStrip/BringingUpFather'' then -- the ''entire comic strip'' is about the hilarity of a large woman beating up her short, drunken husband. In this show, the wimpy, obnoxious sarcastic Raymond is frequently insulted by his short, angry wife, who (on may two or three occasions) has smacked him or shoved him. It's comedy.
39	** Ray is abusive toward Debra, albeit not physically. He is a pathological liar, which is often considered a form of emotional abuse. Debra's aggression toward Ray is unforgiveable, but he's just as bad in his own way.
40	*** Ray lies on occasion to Debra, that doesn't make him a pathological liar (which is an actual psychological condition).
41	*** Ray might not be a pathological liar, but he ''is'', in his own way, extremely manipulative, especially in the later seasons. In one episode, he's worried that a fight Debra had with Marie will prevent weekly sex, but instead discovers that Debra's anger makes her a more passionate lover. He likes this so much that he deliberately lies to Debra and pushes her BerserkButton--even though Marie is sincerely trying to apologize--just so he can get better sex for himself. In another episode (the one with Amy and Robert's thank-you notes), he reveals that he [[ObfuscatingStupidity deliberately acts incompetent]] so Debra won't ask him to help with household tasks and chores. It kind of casts a darker pall on the show, as it suggests that between Debra's taunting and Ray's deceitful ways, the marriage had a lot of flaws.
42	* Robert lived with his parents. Fair enough. But according to Frank and Marie's numerous discussions about money throughout the series, it's apparent that Frank paid for rent and all the food despite being fired from his job without a retirement fund. While Robert is a sergeant with the NYPD and he doesn't pay for anything. WhatTheHellHero?
43	** There's reasons nobody likes Robert.
44	** Speaking as someone who had to move back in with their parents after a bad situation it's possible that Marie simply refused to take any money from Robert despite him still having a steady job. In that sort of situation many family members feel it's their job to take care of someone in that situation, regardless of money.
45	** This is addressed in the show. At one point Frank indicates in a snide offhand comment that Robert should start paying him rent. Marie shuts it down immediately. Marie in general is shown to abhor the idea that she should take her children's money, which is TruthInTelevision for a lot of families. Plus, she wants her kids close to home to begin with.
46	* In the episode where they get a family picture, why the hell does Debra invite her parents? She knew that it was a gift for Marie, (And probably knew that Marie told Robert not to bring Amy) which meant that it was a picture of ''Marie's'' Family, not hers. She refuses to realize that her parents did not fit into that, yet is treated like she is in the right.
47	** Explained in the episode. Debra asked Marie if she could spend Christmas Eve at her own parents' house and Christmas Day at Marie's house, and she looked to Ray to back her up - which he didn't. She specifically says, "Don't you think it's a good idea, Ray? Just like I thought the family photo was a good idea?" She didn't want to take the family photo because it would mean spending an awful afternoon with Marie and Frank (which it did), but she supported Ray anyway. When Ray refused to return the favor, she invited her parents to the family photo because she had no reason to cooperate/compromise anymore.
48	** So, the in-laws aren't members of the family? Since when? And in any event, Marie's response to their presence, whether or not Debra was justified in inviting them, was incredibly childish.
49	*** They are members of ''Debra and Ray's'' family, but not ''Marie's'' family. The picture is for Marie, therefore it is centered on her, and the in-laws are not related to her.
50	** That whole episode bothers me, really. That fact that Ray is being forced to be everyone's middle-man is, I think, supposed to be the source of comedy for the episode, but the whole thing strikes me as an exercise in how far a person can be pushed before he snaps.
51	** This is a situation where an obvious solution is ignored for the sake of comedy. They could have simply taken two pictures...one with Debra's parents and one without. Deb's parents aren't thrown out of the picture, Marie gets the picture she wants, and everybody's happy. With that being said, coming to a simple agreement within five seconds does not make for a good sitcom episode, and the episode is still hysterical despite the fridge logic it evokes.
52	* What Just Bugs Me is the extreme anti-Debra attitude on this site, particularly when people think she gets away with everything, or is shown as morally right. Debra is NOT always shown as right -- they regularly point out she's a crappy cook, is horribly mean, is disrespectful, arrogant and often morally questionable. Ray even calls her a "Cranky yell machine" when he doesn't think she's watching. She's just as nasty and bad as the rest of the cast, and everyone knows it. She's not a Mary Sue in ANY case.
53	** Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
54	** The anti-Debra attitude comes from that fact that she ''is'' shown as right most times, even though she's not completely right most times. Whenever she yells at and/or ''physically abuses'' Ray, even when it's for next to no reason, the audience laughs and/or cheers. Also, whenever there's a fight, the majority of the time, Debra is portrayed as in the absolute right and we're not meant to sympathize with the other person at all, despite the fact that you could see where the other person was coming from. Yes, Ray calls her a "cranky yell machine", but when he does, it's a joke and meant to be taken as such. When Debra insults and attacks Ray (such as when she decided that encouraging the kids to see him as less of an authority figure than her by making bets on what he would do), it's supposed to be taken seriously, evidenced by the wildly inappropriate clapping and cheering from the audience.
55	*** The "encouraging the kids to think negatively of Ray" incident isn't a good example, seeing as how Ray ''won'' that argument in the end. And I can think of several other episodes where Debra was ''not'' portrayed as absolutely-right-even-when-she's-wrong, though the later seasons did admittedly tend to skew that.
56	*** Maybe not, but there are still plenty of examples that come to my mind in regards to that (and I haven't even seen every episode). And while she may not always be ''portrayed'' as right, she almost always gets her own way, not to mention the fact that the studio audience ''cheers'' when she is, essentially, abusing Ray, be it physically or verbally. I think that's why so many people are anti-Debra.
57	** Indeed. Debra basically always wins out in all the episodes that involves an argument involving her. And she is meant to be taken as in the right. Listen to the audience. That's the big clue in sitcoms that employ a laugh track. I'm not fond of Debra most of the time, but she does really shine in the episodes when she's shown to still love Ray, no matter what she does to him. This includes the episode that [[HowWeGotHere shows how Ray and Debra's relationship started.]] The finale, as well, when Debra breaks down thinking that Ray would not make it through surgery alive. The first season is better about those episodes than the rest. It's sad, because Debra and Ray could have been portrayed as a married couple of [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarkers]] and it would have been a much better show.
58	*** And that was the problem, it's true that Debra is not really portraited as always right, but because the episodes go as being funny how Ray loses even when he's right, it eventually annoys people. The problem was that Ray started to go down as an idiot who needed his mommy all his life (which brought the question as to why did he kept putting the front that he wanted them out of the house or to move somewhere else) so Debra was left alone against the rest of the Barone family with a gross father in law, a snoopy and crazy mother in law and an idiot husband; when it was suppose to be Ray and Debra against Frank and Mary's antics.
59	*** Debra always wins in arguments involving her? You didn't happen to see, oh, EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT she ever had with Marie, except for the one with the jar Debra thought she returned? In most of these, DEBRA took the "Ray" position of the "loses even when she's right", to a far greater level than even Ray did, as Marie was a master manipulator. It's things like that which make the "Anti-Debra" community lose credibility when they whine about how Debra always wins.
60	*** Misrepresenting the argument does the other side no favours either. Debra wins almost every argument she has WITH RAY regardless of her correctness. She's insufferable to her core. Howevever, Marie wins nearly every argument she has with ANYONE regardless of her correctness. While this functions as FridgeLogic to explain why she's Debra's nemesis and why Debra is Ray's wife, it has unfortunate effect of creating a CascadingHarpy effect. The men on the show, while flawed spend the entire series bumbling around on eggshells so as not to [[VideoGame/Left4Dead Startle the two witches]].
61	*** The exact quote above is that Debra wins every argument involving her. She did not. Therefore, it was not misrepresenting the argument.
62	** Maybe I am wrong on this one, but I enjoyed the show more with this view. The realism was the joke, the unfair truth that even when you're right you lost (which made the times Marie, Amy and Debra were shut up so awesome) Marie was my biggest reason for thinking that way, she would almost always "win" an argument even when it was obvious to the viewers AND the cast that she was flat out wrong. That went with a lot of the female cast, to me they were portrayed as "crazy" not as "right". The old "you can't win against women jokes" and also even more the "Raymond can't win against almost anyone joke". Debra ''was'' moody because of her PMS, she ''did'' take too long and got them late (even if she didn't got stuck she still was gonna take a few minutes fixing her hair even when she was fine the way she was), she really was bothering Ray talking loudly on the phone in the basement when he was trying to work even when she could had done it anywhere else around the house as he madly pointed out, Amy is a hypocrite for complaining about the Barone seniors when her parents impose they're views on everyone when they're around, and Marie is rarely right about anything, but Ray, Robert and Frank figure it's best just to let them win because they: are scared, see it's pointless, etc. an example is when Frank agrees with everything Marie says just to not get her on his case, then she takes it up a notch and says agreeing with her is Frank's place to which he gets mad and says what's really on his mind.
63	** The anti-Debra attitude is because either Debra or Marie have to play the role of the "antagonist" to Ray's protagonist in most episodes. Folks are willing to accept Marie as an antagonist because the idea of a doting mother you can never win against is much more acceptable than the idea of being married to someone you lose out against. People also tend to more easily remember episodes like "Bad Moon Rising" which has a much more controversial plotline while discounting the flashback episodes, where Ray and Debra are practically always on the same page and supportive of one another, or episodes like "No Roll," where Ray actually wins the argument straightforwardly with absolutely no repercussions (by pointing out that if Debra could have just talked to him about her needs in bed, they could have resolved the issue of their sex life much more easily). The structure of most episodes has Ray doing something bad in the beginning of the episode, with the rest of the episode revolving around Debra's reaction to it, which leaves people with more bad images of Debra than of Ray's harmful or foolish actions. Debra's yelling and physicality are much more memorable than Ray's continuous and flat failure to support Debra meaningfully as a co-parent or husband. Finally, people seem to mistakenly understand the laugh track as indicating who is right and who is wrong - it's just there to reinforce the situational humor of various scenes. Whether or not something is funny, or intended to be funny, is definitely not based on what's right and wrong, especially in fiction and drama. It would be weird if there was total silence, or gasping in horror, for every argument - which is what some folks seem to think should happen in a DysfunctionJunction sitcom.
64	* One of the show's biggest selling points was "It's not about the kids." In that case, why even ''have'' kids on the show if they're just scenery? Is it that hard to fathom a happily childfree couple on a primetime sitcom?
65	** It wasn't about them, but they were used to develop the other characters. For example, when Frank spazzed out in the grocery store, scared Ally, and had to think about how he talked to people. Or in cases where Marie criticized Debra's methods for childraising. Plus, do you think Debra would have been the way she was if she was managing only a household and not three (occasionally) bratty kids?
66	** Having kids also adds another dimension to the show by offering a variety of alternative plot lines that you wouldn't have if it was just two people.
67	** I think it also gave viewers a way to feel more sympathetic to Debra. She was a very proud and dedicated stay-at-home mom--without the kids, she probably would have been given an "out of the house" job instead, which would in turn make Marie and Frank barging in on the younger Barones make a lot less sense.
68	* The still shot of Ray/Debra's house shows a garage in front of the house off to the right. There is also no driveway. Somehow when Marie backs into the house, she backs into the living room...of a house with NO DRIVEWAY. So it begs the question of why she was backing up to their house in the first place. Funny episode, but the mixed up layout bugs me.
69	** They weren't even going to Ray's house in the first place (they live 20 paces from each other after all) she was just that bad of a driven/had bad eye sight, I don't remember very well.
70	** Yeah, I believe they were headed to the grocery store. My wonderment is that she would have had to hop the curb at Ray's house, and maybe 3 or 4 steps, to plow into the house like that. And her reflexes at no point stopped her.
71	*** Believe it or not this is actually TruthinTelevision.
72	*** Marie's driving skills or vision isn't to blame. It is said in the episode that the brakes on the car were bad. Even though Marie was the one driving the car, Frank was the one who got the blame because a car mechanic told him brakes needed repairing but Frank claimed that guy was a crook, so the brakes were never fixed.
73	*** It's a bit of FridgeHorror, though, when you realize that Frank's stinginess almost got Ray and Debra seriously injured, if not killed. They'd been sitting on the couch, and the car came directly through that spot.
74	* In the episode where Debra gets drunk, falls asleep in the car and arrested for drunk driving, she is monitored and not allowed to have any alcohol in order to keep her license. At the end, the family is eating pudding and Marie mentions she put alcohol in it (I think brandy), then she realizes and freaks, grabbing Debra's bowl. Now, from my experience, most of the time when you make a pudding and put brandy/rum/whathaveyou in it, it's usually when you're cooking the pudding and the alcohol cooks out but leaves the flavor. Wouldn't Marie have realized in the first place, especially while she was cooking?
75	** Um, ''yeah''. That's Marie. It was clearly just a way to embarrass Debra, by reminding her (and everyone around) of the incident (which Marie had gloated about from the beginning anyway).
76	** It's a recurring gag for Marie to overreact to Debra's rarely-occurring drinking of alcohol. Who knows; maybe in Marie's insane mind, there was a legitimate risk.
77	** On the other hand some desserts, like English trifle, do not require cooking and incorporate a fair amount of alcohol. Some Italian tiramisu desserts require a good hard whack of amaretto - similarly this is not cooked, but set. A cold-set rum and raisin cheesecake requires lots of raisins pre-soaked in Jamaica rum... People have registered as too drunk to drive just by having second helpings of dessert!
78	** Another point: would a cop ''really'' arrest someone for sleeping in their car? Even if they were a little drunk, they at least had it together enough to not drive. They probably would have just told them to leave, and if the person told them they didn't feel sober enough to drive, couldn't the cop just call a cab or something?
79	** she was sitting, apparently drunk, in the driver's seat. In the UK this is sufficient reason to breathalyse the driver even if the car is stationary with the engine off. Also in the USA?
80	** It's not that she was sitting in the driver's seat and drunk--it's that the keys were in the ignition (she put them in, turned on the car, and then dozed off for a bit). In the U.S., putting the keys in the ignition means you have "intent to drive" (an ExactWords part of the law that's brought up in the episode itself). Since Debra was drunk and the keys were in there, the cop had to bring her in because, from a purely legal view, she intended to drive under the influence of alcohol, which means she was breaking the law. The arresting officer is clearly sympathetic to her, but it was still a dangerous situation, and he had to address it.
81	* Maybe this was addressed and I just forgot, but whatever happened to Robert's dog, Shamsky? He's not on camera or even mentioned after season 3.
82	** He died, maybe?
83	*** That might explain it in real life, but what about in the show itself? As it stands, Shamsky was a victim of ChuckCunninghamSyndrome.
84	*** Clearly he went off to live with a family with a much bigger yard than the Barones. In fact, it was a great big farm, and the family has time to play with him all day! And you can go visit him any time you like! What, you want to go visit? Well, Mommy's awfully busy this weekend, dear, maybe next weekend...
85	* This is played for laughs in the show, but it does raise an honest question: Why ''do'' Ray and Debra's kids have blonde hair, while neither of the parents have blonde hair?
86	** We know Ray is a carrier for blonde genes,as Marie is blonde. Presumably Debra's father was blonde before his hair grayed. This would give any kids Ray and Debra have together a 25% chance of being blonde.
87	** Its also possible their hair will get darker as they get older. I was blonde until I was 5 and my hair got progressively darker until it was dark brown by 12.
88	* It always bugged me how Robert always seems so happy when Ray doesn't get his way or becomes misfortuned. I mean, sure, Ray is spoiled beyond all belief, but turning every little thing into a rivalry seems kind of petty.
89	** I always thought that was the point. Robert's life is literally so empty that all he has is his envy of Raymond, whom he's worked up to see as having everything he (Robert) could ever want.
90	*** I actually agree with the original poster. ELR is a great show and Robert's a good character, but his constant jealousy of Raymond is arguably one of the show's biggest flaws, because it doesn't make any sense when you analyse it. The problem is this: We're meant to feel sympathy for Robert and hope that he succeeds in life, but he rarely does anything to deserve our sympathy. Whenever Raymond experiences any kind of misfortune, Robert always has to mock Raymond with his menacing laughter and sometimes really hurtful comments, but he's also supposed to be the wise character, the voice of reason. It's really jarring to one minute appreciate any advice Robert lends to the family and then experience how bitter he becomes when something good happens to Raymond in the very same episode. The fact that Robert is such a moral character (he's a police officer, after all) and yet is often incapable of rising above his jealousy as a mature person should, is contradictory. In one episode, he tells the story of how his monkey toy was passed down to newborn Raymond. As a child, this must have been pretty distressing for him, but at his age and in his police profession (which requires an immense amount of knowledge and maturity), this should no longer be one of his concerns, but he deliberately makes it one by dwelling upon it. So, how can we feel sorry for Robert when he brings a majority of his misfortunes on himself by being jealous, bitter, overly sensitive/immature and sometimes downright mean?
91	* So, is being a sportswriter a pretty good paying job then? Ray, Debra and the kids seem to live pretty well, they have a really nice house and everything, and I remember one occasion where Ray was bantering with a player about their salaries, and Ray seems to have a ''very'' nice yearly income... just for being a sportswriter. Maybe it's just me, but I never really thought of writing, let alone sportswriting, would be ''that'' great of a living.
92	** Depends on the paper you're writing for and if your articles are popular enough that multiple papers might carry them. Yes, it can be a very profitable job.
93	* Why, in the episode Civil War, are they reenacting the battle of Gettysburg, one of the most famous battles of the American Civil War, in Long Island, in the middle of winter? Gettysburg wasn't in Long Island, and it was in July. It seemed like one giant episode of ArtisticLicenseHistory, especially as the entire episode revolves around it.
94	** Uh, they're reenacting it because that's the group Frank was involved with - the group reenacts numerous battles from different wars. They never said it was the anniversary of the battle or that it took place in Long Island; they said it was the anniversary of their first reenactment of it.
95	* In the episode "Robert's New Apartment", Ray is unwittingly caught by Debra when she brings Robert some linens for his new place, and she sees the real reason Ray spends so much time over at Robert's is to ogle over all the beautiful women who populate his building. She remarks, "Come on, Ray, I saw those women... like you had a shot!" I've always been a little mixed up about the context of Deb's comment, was she saying, "Like you had a shot" as if looking at the women was like he had a B-12 shot, or was it a biting sarcastic remark like Ray didn't stand a chance trying to nail one of them?
96	** The latter.
97	* This is a bit petty, but it nags at me every time I watch the episode. Did anyone else find it strange in "Anniversary" that Ray and Debra took Frank and Marie to brunch before the anniversary party? I mean, usually brunches in America serve huge amounts of food, and it's usually a meal that satisfies you for most of the day. I just always found it a strange idea to go out and get a big meal and then come back to a party for another one. Wouldn't it have made a hell of a lot more sense to have the affair at Ray and Debra's house and invite them over for a certain time?
98	** That assumes they don't show up early - or that they stay away from the house long enough to allow everyone to set up.
99	* In "Good Girls", it's revealed that Robert was born earlier than he thought, due to being conceived from before Frank and Marie got married. But are we really expected to believe Robert never saw his birth certificate, which would ''have'' to say something different?
100	** RuleOfFunny, but I always wondered why they didn't just keep his birthday the same and lie about when they got married, which would have been a much easier date to fake. I guess that wouldn't have been as embarrassing for Robert, therefore not as funny.
101	* "I Wish I Were Gus" was a funny episode by Season 1 standards, but boy is it crawling with FridgeLogic. First off, why was everybody so intent on Marie making up with Alda? It sounded like Alda was horrible to Marie for their entire lives, and she did a despicable thing by ruining Ray and Debra's wedding and not even bringing a gift. Given that she lives in Canada anyway, it doesn't seem that Marie needs to have any sort of relationship with this woman who was obviously a terrible sister. Moving past that, why is it stipulated that Marie and Alda both being at the funeral necessitated them to be in each other's company? In a church with at least 50 pews, they couldn't have just sat apart? However, the worst part of the episode came at the end. After Ray finally gets the sisters to make up and put their feuding behind them for good, Debra decides AT THAT VERY MOMENT to reopen the wound and bring up how Alda ruined their wedding. She really couldn't have saved that conversation for any other time? I suppose this episode can be chalked up to EarlyInstallmentWeirdness since I don't think the Alda story was canon (she doesn't exist in the flashback episode to Ray and Debra's wedding), but the level of contrivance in this episode is striking even for an infant sitcom.
102	* I'm rewatching the series and it seems strange how everyone acts like Robert is a weirdo (or in one episode, maybe even gay) for not wanting to jump right in and get married again. He's already kinda shy and awkward, and that's on top of his ex-wife leaving him; is it really so odd or wrong for him to feel unsure about tying the knot again? Do most people really just hop right back in the saddle after a year or few of being divorced?
103	** I've always thought it was because Marie (and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the family) really ''wanted'' him to be married. They're proud Italians, and a big, close-knit family is commonly associated with that particular nationality. Plus Marie clearly wanted even more grandchildren. As usual, they were trying to "help" him by getting him back on the dating scene, without acknowledging his feelings.
104	* Does anybody else find it disturbing that Debra pushing Ray into the bookshelf was PlayedForLaughs? That was domestic violence, pure and simple. I hardly think this scene would be a laughing matter had genders been reversed.
105	* Does it ever occur to Debra that she could use Marie to her advantage? She is forever complaining that she gets no help running the house and that she never gets a minute to relax. While Marie could be annoying and intrusive, it is made quite clear that she is an excellent housekeeper and cook, and that she'd have no problem pitching in at the younger Barones' house. If Marie is going to constantly be at their house anyway, why not let her just do the housework that she wants to do? It's just bizarre that Debra constantly bitches about having no help when Marie is ready, willing, and able to do anything that may be needed.
106	** The problem is that Marie wasn't offering to do the housework and cooking because she ''wanted'' to--it was a passive-aggressive tactic because she felt that Debra wasn't good at those things. Marie makes it clear throughout the series that she thinks Debra is a bad cook and unable to keep the house clean (in one episode, she decides to apologize to her daughter-in-law about a fight because she sees a TV commercial about germs in a household and [[StealthInsult immediately thinks of her]]). There's a clear difference between people lending a hand because they want to and rudely pushing someone aside to do a job because they think you're incompetent and need all the help you can get--Marie is definitely in the latter camp. Plus it's a matter of pride of Debra, too: she doesn't want to admit she needs Marie's help, because she's aware of why her mother-in-law is offering. And even if Debra ''isn't'' as good as Marie at cooking and housework, there are ways to politely offer to help someone without throwing shade at them for everything they do. Marie never did that, which just drove the wedge between them even further.
107	*** For as passive-aggressive as Marie gets, the show also goes out of its way to highlight [[JerkassHasAPoint there is valid criticism in her remarks]] - that Debra can't cook (the only food she can make is lemon chicken and braciole) and doesn't keep a perfectly neat house (with cobwebs forming under the TV) so that just further implies it is petty pride or vanity on her part, when her whole reason for moving in despite Ray's explicit objections was to be near his parents so they could help out.
108	** Debra attempts this in "No Thanks" when she decides to let Marie's criticism roll off her back and just allow her to help. The result is Marie thinking even less of Debra, and she doesn't let up on the criticism much at all. The episode lampshades this by pointing out the counterargument to just ignoring someone's behavior - they'll just get worse.
109	* In "A Date for Peter," why are Ray and Debra talking and acting as if Peter's new girlfriend would be joining the Barone family? If they were to get married she would have a tangential relation to Robert as the spouse of his wife's brother, but it isn't as if she would be related to anybody else in the Barone family. It's even implied that Amy's family isn't crazy about the Barones anyway and tend to stay out of their company unless it's necessary, so the idea of Peter's girlfriend/wife having an effect on the Barones is quite ludicrous.
110	* "Robert Needs Money": How can Robert go to Las Vegas? He was given $1,000. Unless he stays in a crappy motel, he's looking at ''at least'' $800 to stay at one of the touristy hotels for a few days, and that's not even counting the air fare to and from. Even if he somehow got a round trip plane ticket for $200, that leaves him barely any money to actually ''do'' anything on the trip.
111	** I think the implication was that Robert wasn't hurting nearly as much as he led Ray and Debra to believe, and that he was basically treating the $1,000 gift as "play money." The stupider thing about this episode was the idea that a lieutenant on the NYPD would be getting paid an hourly wage and forced into a part-time role. With his rank, exemplary record, and years of service, Robert would have undoubtedly been earning a handsome salary at that point. Even more ludicrous is the idea that NYPD would even think of laying off any cops in the wake of 9/11.
112	** I dunno, Robert ''was'' eating bologna and orange juice, after all. If that's not hurting, I don't know what is.
113	* This troper always took issue with the fundamentally flawed premise of the show - if Debra and Ray feel such tension, stress, hatred, anxiety, misery, and depression living next door to Marie and Frank, why not just move away? It was said in an earlier season they were saving up to move away from them, but no mention or serious consideration is ever given to this line of thought again, even though it's demonstrated at multiple times over the course of the show's history that Ray and Debra are not only pretty well off financially, they can throw around huge sums of money ranging into the four digits if they feel like, such as handing Robert a $1000 check as a gift in "Robert Needs Money." Bottom line, why don't they just move? It would probably make their lives so much happier, or is it that Ray still needs to be perpetually mommied and as he notes of Debra, deep down she likes the complaining and wants to complain?
114	** Actually it is pretty TruthInTelevision. Even if they could technically afford to move, there are more complications to moving than just the financial aspect. The kids go to school in the neighborhood, and Debra is heavily involved with the school/church. Ray also has a good career with the newspaper which seems to be close to their house. And even if they would never admit it, there probably are some advantages to having Marie and Frank across the street (free food, free babysitting, a ride home for the kids if needed, etc.) It is probably just that it is easier to live with the inconvenience than it would be to uproot their lives and start over.
115	* What was Uncle Mel's relationship to the Barones? He has to be blood related as it is stated that he was never married, but the show doesn't imply that he is Marie or Frank's brother. It is also doubtful that he is Marie or Frank's uncle, given that both the elder Barones' parents were Italian immigrants. I know he wasn't meant to be a major character and Phil Leeds passed away early on in the series, but it is still strange to introduce this random family member into the series without any exposition.
116	** Uncle Mel is Frank's brother.
117	* Did anyone else stop and think about just how lax the immigration system is portrayed in the episode "Stefania Arrives"? Midway through the episode, Stefania and Marco (Stefania's father) decide seemingly on a whim that they're going to stay in the United States instead of returning to their home country of Italy. By the end of the episode, Marco owns a business there (after he purchases Nemo's pizza). In real life, the immigration process is lengthy, even if the goal is just to get a green card, which Marco would need to legally make any kind of money in his new home. Furthermore, barring a turn for the worse back in the old country which would make it unsafe to return, it's not realistic that one would just "decide" to stay in a country they originally planned to visit. I'm sure that Stefania and Marco had a ton of loose ends back in Italy they would've needed to tie up before thinking about moving to another country thousands of miles away.
118	* Why does Debra scream so hard at Ray in "The Plan" about how he doesn't buy groceries when we literally see him buying groceries earlier in the season with the episode "Grandpa Steals?"
119	* Why does "The Disciplinarian" establish Ray as the same old pushover afraid to take a stand with his kids because he'll think it means they don't like him when he's shown to be rather competent at doling out punishments to the twins back in "No Thanks," and in fact, he is presented as being better at punishments than Debra is?
120	* Also from "The Disciplinarian," why does Marie take it better upon learning that Ray was a juvenile delinquent in this episode than she did in "Pants on Fire?"
121	* In "Frank's Tribute," why is Marie so nonchalant after Frank suggests quitting the lodge but reacts with horror when the prospect of the lodge shutting down in "Debra at the Lodge" comes up? Sure, she doesn't want Frank in the house more, but the same situation would be true from "Frank's Tribute" as well.

Context Headscratchers / EverybodyLovesRaymond