Line #13 Headscratchers/DumbingOfAge


1	[[foldercontrol]]
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3	[[folder:Joyce's Fundamentalism]]
4	* Why did ''Dumbing of Age'' turn Joyce into an unlikeable [[TheFundamentalist Fundamentalist]]? Supposedly, ''[=DoA=]'' is supposed to take all the Walkyverse characters pre-character development, put them back in college, and see what happens. But Joyce was '''nothing''' like... ''this'' in the original continuity. I mean, they didn't even mention her religion until the ''It's Walky!'' era, and even then she was merely shown as being a strong believer in god, no more or less fanatical that any other Christian. But now, she's literally completely obsessed with God and religion, and constantly preaches sermons to anyone who is nearby. Willis has basically turned her into one giant TakeThat against religion, which causes some UnfortunateImplications.
5	** Joyce comes off as much more naive than unlikeable to me, and I don't believe I'm alone. She may be very conservative in her beliefs, but she can also come across as very innocent and cute. What bugs ''me'' is that Joyce is getting hated on for it so much. Granted, she puts her foot in it a ''lot'', but this can be chalked up to her naivety, and will most likely be resolved via character development. Keep in mind, it appears that she's been around people who are more conservative for her entire life up until this point. It's like people think that Joyce has experienced both the "being anything other than Christian is bad" life and the "accept people with different beliefs and lifestyles than yours" life and has actively chosen the former.
6	** Joyce had been mindwiped in the IW story, as I understand it, and rediscovered her religion later.
7	** Willis was a conservative Christian when he wrote Joyce's character in ''Roomies!'' the first time around. Now he's... um... not anymore. So there you go.
8	** In the comment section of [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/gasp/ this strip]] he answered a question similar to this one by saying (and I quote) "Joyce is autobiographical". Most fans reacted in the same way as Joyce in the last panel of that day's strip.
9	** Joyce pre-mind-wipe was pretty much just a sickeningly sweet StalkerWithACrush on Danny. Given that Willis doesn't want to redo plot lines, the StalkerWithACrush aspect is out, which leaves just the sickening sweetness. That makes for a pretty flat character. Post-mind-wipe Joyce rediscovered her religion, so there's that. Any other personality aspects from that era flesh her out too much to leave room for evolution, because she becomes fairly well-rounded. Basically, Willis didn't have many options, so he took the two most viable and cranked them up to eleven.
10	** [[WordOfGod And Willis has given us a legit answer,]] [[http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/10270379367/some-people-who-read-roomies-and-its-walky seen here]]--[[JustForFun/NotableReferencesToTVTropes in direct response to this very page, no less.]] In short--everyone was a fundie back in ''Roomies!'' [[WriteWhoYouKnow because Willis was]], but he didn't have the characters discuss it much because, since being a fundie was the default setting, the characters weren't going to argue about stuff they agreed on (that, and Willis didn't have the balls to write something that might piss off his pastors.) Between the mind-wipe and whatnot, Joyce grew and evolved and by the time she rediscovered her beliefs she became a lot more well-rounded. DOA!Joyce ''is'' Roomies!Joyce, the difference is that Willis now has the balls to tackle the implications of that.
11	[[/folder]]
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13	[[folder:Housing]]
14	* Was it ever mentioned if any of the students have off-campus housing? Like, their parents live close enough to the school that they don't have to rent out the dorms, or maybe some of the older students have their own places.
15	** Not that I recall. Seems that all the major players live on campus.
16	** Not that unusual. Most of the cast consists of Freshmen. Many universities require first-year students to live on campus.
17	** [[http://collegeprowler.com/indiana-university/campus-housing/ Indiana University happens to be one such school.]] How about that.
18	[[/folder]]
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20	[[folder:No Posters]]
21	* How does "no posters on the wall" equate to "must be a SerialKiller"?
22	** Some types of serial killers are known for being orderly to a fault, as a symptom of sociopathy and their lack of interest in normal things. Not scientifically accurate like, at all, but it's just one of those stupid things that people tend to believe.
23	** There's also the possibility it's because no posters equals WEIRD, and all serial killers are 'Weird'. Which is even MORE fallacious.
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26	[[folder:Danny and Billie]]
27	* I am confused by [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/casualbang/ This page]] I'm trying to find something wrong with how Danny is in the wrong for not wanting to have a casual bang with a girl. Is Joe just being a dick or something or is this meant to be taken seriously. Who do we side with? Is this unfortunate implications. Sorry I am just confused by this.
28	** Joe's being a dick as usual, but he does have a point. He's saying that Danny wasn't saying "I don't want to have sex with this girl," but rather "this sane and sober girl doesn't ''actually'' want to have sex with me, and I know better than her." Was Danny right? Maybe. But it is kind of presumptuous to assume you know someone's desires better than they do.
29	** Well thank you that does help clear some stuff up. Danny could have worded that better. But I can't help but get the feeling that even if he did, he'd be called out on it, such as "What are you gay?" Or stuff like that any number of people
30	** Turns out the fans are saying that Danny's being a "NiceGuy[=™=]" but that just confuses me more, isn't the whole idea of the "NiceGuy[=™=]" Meme the idea of a guy who pretends to be nice just to have sex with a girl? Doesn't Danny denying sex with another girl negate that idea? Wouldn't that be more "white knighting" protecting a girl's honor and all that? What is this? I am confused. Is part of the fanbase just throwing around the meme to state their disappointment with Danny?
31	** People are probably misusing the meme, that's all. Mind, I'm not particularly familiar with that one myself, but it seems closer to a weird version of White Knighting.
32	** It's the polar opposite of being a Nice Guy. A Nice Guy is someone who acts nice towards a girl with the hope that she'll reward his kindess with sex and acts like he's the wronged party when she's not interested. Danny thought she was out of his league right from the start and goddamn ''apologised'' for hitting on her, and then promised to keep it professional. If anything, he's respecting her way waaaaay too much to the point of White Knighting, like others have said.
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35	[[folder:Everything's Danny's fault, especially when it isn't]]
36	* What in the crap is going on in this fandom? Amber keeps her alter-ego a secret from a guy she knows and he hasn't figured it out? Danny's an idiot. Amber begs Danny to pretend to be her boyfriend and feels hurt when he eventually shuts her down because he wants to be loyal to Amazigirl? Danny's an asshole. Blaine tricks and manipulates Danny's concern for Amber so he can punish his daughter for disobedience? Danny's a gutless loser. Danny is the one who is being constantly used and lied to, but all of the negative fallout is apparently all his fault, ''not'' the people who have been using and lying to him. People claim it's his fault for being naive and cowardly, but when he got angry at Amber for forcing him to pretend to be her boyfriend ''fans still got angry at him''. Can someone please explain why Danny is the bad guy in every situation he's in when in actuality he's the person being wronged most of the time?
37	** Because the majority of fans like Amber more as a character, and therefore despise anyone who causes Amber unhappiness in any way. Also, fans fail to realize that Dumbing of Age is set in a universe where Clark Kenting just works (Amber's own father failed to recognize her as Amizigirl, despite Amber using the Amizigirl voice in the middle of a phone conversation) and see Danny as stupid instead of a victim of conventions of the genre.
38	** Danny was the AuthorAvatar back in Rommies. As that Willis was a sheltered fundamentalist teenager without the writting-skills he has today Danny came of as an asshole. Even if they are different characters many still holds this against [=DoA=]!Danny.
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41	[[folder:Becky's Living Situation]]
42	* Exactly ''what'' is Joyce planning to do with Becky living-situation wise? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure her dorm room is made for ''two'' people, not three. They could probably get in huge trouble if Becky were to move in, and in any case Sarah doesn't seem all that fond of Becky (though admittedly Sarah doesn't seem to like many people in general)...
43	** As of [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/endgame/ this comic]], this is less a headscratcher and more a plot point.
44	[[/folder]]
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46	[[folder:Amber's Superhero Skillset]]
47	* When operating as Amazi-Girl, Amber displays above-average-hand-to-hand combat skills and exceptional athleticism for a short-and-curvy girl who isn't particularly muscular or toned. While some of the hand-to-hand beatdown skills seem to arise from her rage-issues and repressed sadistic tendencies, is it ever explained if she did any training to gain these BadassNormal skills?
48	** She mentions that her father has sent her to self-defense classes after Sal's robbery.
49	** Elaborated on later. She doesn't LOOK it, but she's actually spent her entire life since the incident training.
50	[[/folder]]
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52	[[folder:White Washing]]
53	* A problem with how a lot of the social justice issues are portrayed is that they are frequently only brought up to motivate [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/settledown/ a white]] ([[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/ginger/ Or whiter]]) character's story or character development. [[http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/133911326532/the-storylines-over-and-now-that-it-is-i-wanted Willis even admitted]] To Those Who Ground Me was all about Joyce's character evolving. It just feels hypocritcal and insincere.
54	** Joyce is the defacto main character of the comic, and main character status in any story typically conveys being the primary focus of storylines and character growth, especially when the character in question is admitted to be autobiographical. Many of the storylines are also about Joyce learning about and changing her point of view on social justice issues, something which a non-white character wouldn't need to learn about since by default non-whites tend to have to deal with that stuff in their regular day to day life already... [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/princess/ and even then sometimes they get a storyline like that anyways]]. Also, Billie is half-chinese and not the best example of being whiter than an actual whiter girl.
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57	[[folder: Ruth's relationship with Billie]]
58	* I don't get it. How can she get fired for that? Most places I've been to, if you're in a relationship with someone under you, you usually get transferred to another department or location to avoid the conflict of interest. Why wouldn't it be any different for Ruthless? Couldn't they just swap her with another RA or move Billie to another dorm? Hell, that might resolve Becky's living situation: Billie moves to another dorm and Becky gets Billie's old spot.
59	** Ruth was getting fired for all around incompetence, not to mention for her own good to put her in a less stressful environment--the illegal relationship was just the cherry on top. And if a new RA moves in, then Becky can't take anyone's spot, because the new RA will be much tougher on rule breaking since they'll know they have to be better than Ruth. Of course, that all got rendered moot when her grandfather pulled strings for whatever reason to have her keep the job.
60	[[/folder]]
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62	[[folder: Sal’s injury]]
63	* Amber apparently stabbed Sal in, or through the hand during the convenience store robbery. Sal has a conspicuous scar as a result, which she hides by wearing gloves at all times. However nothing is ever said about the medical implications or consequences; Sal appears to have no loss of function in her hand, the medical bills are never mentioned (contrast Marcie’s backstory in recent weeks) and Amber doesn’t seem to have suffered any consequences for what amounts to assault and battery, possibly grievous bodily harm, with a lethal weapon.
64	** Knowing Linda, she probably used the money Sal was saving for Marcie on Sal's own bills (and made sure Sal knew it too). Regarding the charges, there are so many unknown factors that could've resulted in Amber not getting charged or charged lightly: she's a minor, she wasn't in her right mind, the DA probably thinks a jury would rule self defense, Blaine used his mob ties to get the charges dropped (mostly because an investigation might bring unwanted attention on ''him'') and really, do you think Linda would've pursued pressing charges to benefit TheUnfavorite? If Walky had been the one stabbed, sure, but Sal? At any rate, how Linda would see it, Sal humiliated her enough by getting arrested, she'd probably think Sal deserved to get stabbed. I ''did'' find the [[http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/tuned/ strip]] where Sal says her right hand isn't as good anymore, so there does seem to be SOME sort of consequence, most likely loss of fine motor skills.

Context Headscratchers / DumbingOfAge