Line #65 Headscratchers/DmCDevilMayCry


1	!Per wiki policy, Administrivia/SpoilersOff applies here and all spoilers are unmarked. Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.
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3	* Why do we never see Sparda's face? In the original continuity we know what he looked like in human and demon form, so why wasn't he given a face in this game?
4	** Also on a shallower note: why make Eva a redhead instead of just blonde?
5	** For whatever reason one of the conditions for Ninja Theory working on the game was that they couldn't have Sparda as a prominent character or even show his face, so they decided to give Eva more weight instead. As for the hair, their main artist seems to like drawing women with long, wild, almost neon red hair. There probably isn't much more to it than that.
6	* Why are people trying to defend Lilith? She was the one who decided to sic her child on Dante, even the guy himself wasn't trashtalking because he was pretty disturbed.
7	** It's not so much her actions when she encounters Dante, but during the hostage exchange. She looks scared as she's walking to the van, and after Vergil's first shot, she looks at the blood on her hands with an ambiguous expression of...horror? Grief? Loss? Dante himself looks aghast. She's villainous, no doubt, but considering her ugly death, and that Mundus obviously didn't care about her as a person, it's not completely beyond comprehension that she might be pitied.
8	* Ok, let's start with this: According to the backstory of this game, Dante's parents were killed by Mundus, and Dante had to grow up in a demon-controlled orphanage. Now, the Demons in this continuity are smarter than usual, as seen in their Masquerade, and yet, why didn't they kill the young Dante while they still had the chance? I mean, he was too young to fight back, likely powerless and directly in their clutches! They had his parents killed, why did they let him live?!
9	** Maybe because their ego was so large that they didn't think that young Dante would grow up into a demon-hunter and thought that he wasn't worth the time killing?
10	*** They had time to raise him, but not kill him?
11	*** The game explains (and shows) that at a young age, he was strong enough to kill the head nurse Lamia, a demon who was of the same race as her name. It was then said he was moved from orphanage to orphanage, foster home to foster home, which aren't all demon-controlled and he then fell off the grid.
12	*** That doesn't explain why the demons didn't send an assassin if not a whole army after this one kid once it became apparent that he'd be a threat.
13	*** They did, but once he'd escaped they lost track of him since he killed any demon that managed to find him.
14	** It's probably because they never had a demon/angel hybrid before. Remember in the backstory, they were fascinated by Dante, as he was a "freak of nature" to them. So they probably wanted to study him to see what makes him tick; of course, they probably didn't expect him to be powerful enough to escape.
15	*** This is pretty much confirmed by the very first teaser where Dante's chained up, beaten, and getting analyzed by demons behind a camera. They didn't kill him right away because they wanted to study him.
16	** Then another question would be why they left them their heirloom weapons…
17	*** In this case, it is because Osiris and Arbiter are sealed inside the magical portraits, and probably hidden to anyone but other Nephilim. As for Eryx and Aquila, you get them from bosses (Poison and Barbas). Which brings the question... why you obtain an angelic weapon from a demon?
18	*** it's not said he gets it from Bob, just that it manifests after he beats Bob, possibly meaning it's a natural weapon his body formed.
19	*** But it manifests as Angelic energy gathering around Bob's corpse before flowing to Dante.
20	*** Maybe it's because of the angel Assiel? I mean, if Barbas is the head of demon prison and Assiel's corpse rests down there, maybe he was the one who defeated her and took her weapons as trophies. Also, it fits with his whole "just doing God's work" theme.
21	*** They probably manifested to compensate for any weaknesses in Dante's fighting style, Eryx might've awakened because Dante needed to get rid of the Succubus fast, but could only do so with heavy hits, which is what it can do. Aquilla probably awakened because during the boss fight with Barbas, he was sending out tons of Mooks at Dante, and he needed to round them up fast, which is what it can also do.
22	*** As you see in the very first fight Dante gets into, Rebellion was summoned through his PowerTattoo, it seems that Rebellion is more of a symbiotic weapon than just mearly "a sword dad gave me" the demons probably ''did'' try and take it away but it kept vanishing and reappearing on Dante, probably around the time he killed Nurse Lamia, and by that time the demons didn't have another chance to try.
23	** Dante and Vergil were hidden by Sparda, not the forces of Mundus. Mundus was unaware that Dante had survived until he was an adult and able to defend himself. Vergil did an even better job of keeping himself hidden.
24	* Wasn't Virgil's attitude a bit sudden at the end? Throughout the entire game he's been nothing but respectful to Kat, and obviously he wouldn't keep her around unless he recognized the value of her skill set. Suddenly he's treating humans as incompetent imbeciles? And Dante was kinda harsh with him too. He could've at least tried to talk down Virgil's more extreme goals, and concede that a drugged up, previously brainwashed populace could use a hand in building a society of their own and fighting an army of demons.
25	** It's not sudden. Vergil isn't respectful of Kat as a ''person'' - he simply knows not to alienate someone with a useful gift, right up until it's not useful. He first found her in Limbo and helped her recover by getting her to research spells. Had she been ordinary, would he have done anything to help her if he became aware of her? Her demeanour in his presence is submissive, quiet, and task-oriented, and she's bashful and a bit surprised when Dante tries to talk to her like, you know, a person. Vergil's known Kat for years, she's nothing but loyal, she adores him and trusts him completely, but once Dante's on the scene he doesn't need her any more and that's the end of whatever counted as camaraderie. Notice all the insults he takes from Dante and the lengths he'll go to in order to keep ''him'' safe, but how totally willing he is to leave Kat to die? He capitulates to keep Dante on his side, not to save Kat. Similarly, he doesn't lift a finger to help anyone in the Order while they're being massacred by enemy forces. He might view himself as benevolent, but that actually doesn't matter when he's going to appoint himself an eternal dictator. As for the end, it's Vergil who refuses to compromise, Vergil who says that if Dante won't rule with him he'll rule alone, and Dante who says "it's not too late" and that they don't need to fight. While humanity is probably in for some rough times, that the demons hid themselves in the first place indicates things are going to be ''much'' rougher for ''them'', especially considering they all just lost Bob, the Succubus and the power of the Hell Gate.
26	* Another one (I'm not a rabid hater, I'm just curious): there's something that left me puzzled: according to the TakeThatAudience entry, there's a moment in the game where Dante dons a white wig by mistake... and then removes it, saying "Not in a million years", which is apparently a jab at the fans obsessed with the old white-haired Dante. And yet, this Dante becomes white-haired and red-coated himself during the Devil Trigger, and even permanently after the end of the game. So, doesn't this make the above mentioned wig-jab... dunno... odd? Like "Yeah, never gonna happe-oh, it actually did!"
27	** That's called irony. Obviously the developers knew that they wanted to create a white-haired Dante by the end of the series and this was the prequel to such a thing. You're thinking too hard on this.
28	** Maybe Dante just isn't one for long hair.
29	*** This is more likely it as it was always known Dant's Devil Trigger would give him white hair, but the specific style doesn't fit this Dante.
30	** But you can still be "old" Dante with good ol' fashioned {{DLC}}!
31	** The guys at Ninja Theory had planned to give Dante his signature hair color, but the fans were being so bitchy about it. So this is probably the devs flipping the finger at the "hardcore" DMC fans.
32	** Here's my take: it's not a TakeThatAudience moment, it's a TakeThatUs moment. It's not the game making fun of old Dante, it's the game making fun of new Dante as he starts the game by way of irony. He starts off as a selfish cynical hedonist that doesn't believe in anything and gradually improves until in the end he decides to become humanity's defender and champion with nothing to gain for himself, he finds a cause he believes in. And his hair color is meant to be a reflection of that.
33	* I got this from watching someone else play the game, but... in one cutscene, Vergil mentions that the Virility affects humans, but not beings like Dante and Vergil. However, in the Virility Factory, you lose health by touching the Virility. How does that work? Is it GameplayAndStorySegregation at its finest, or...?
34	** That stuff is unrefined and acidic, like the vomit Venom spews at you.
35	** Not to mention it's caustic enough to harm the thing that spits it out in the first place. It's practically lava.
36	** And it's not Virility that Dante's touching. It's just a component.
37	** In the normal world it is harmless to Dante; in Limbo, everything changes. It's like another reality with different rules.
38	* When Dante touches a blue rose or a keepsake of his family's, he's transported to [[EldritchLocation a surreal landscape]] dominated by a massive statue moored by four equally massive chains. Each time Dante breaks the figures holding the chains, the statue's head turns to stare at him and its eyes glow yellow. Is that statue supposed to be Sparda?
39	** It seems to represent Dante himself, or at least his dormant powers. Unshackling the statue awakened his own power, and breaking all the chains allowed him to use his devil trigger.
40	** It may also be a nod to Sparda himself, as you break the chains holding the statue still with Arbiter, the weapon that you inherited from Sparda's portrait.
41	* Is just me, or does it look odd that Mundus, a guy who claims to be a god among demons, is ruling only on Limbo City? If I'm not wrong, it is mentioned that other cities in the world are controlled by the demons... how does Vergil plans to "rule humanity" from a single (if gargantuan) city? I mean, by the end of the game, with Mundus gone, I guess that other "Demon Lords" from all over the world will turn their gaze on Limbo City.... so ruling the city itself or not doesn't seem a good idea on the long run... I think that Vergil should have waited before declaring his real plans to Dante...
42	** He doesn't rule only Limbo City. He rules essentially the country, maybe even the world. Remember in the beginning he was blackmailing the President? He probably just decided to use Limbo City as his headquarters.
43	** "Rule the World" seems pretty exaggerated if you look at it: he has Virility, but only one demon who can produce it. He has a loyal supporter in Bob Barbas, but only one, and he's pretty much weakened after a single outburst of rage following Lilith's death. Overall, it doesn't really seem that he can completely control the ''whole'' human world with only a handful of loyal supporters and various mooks. It would make more sense if there were other demon-kings/queens like Mundus doing the same thing in other parts of the world (with Limbo City being likely in the U.S.A.).
44	** Someone wasn't watching the intro sequence: "Soon I will control everything through debt."
45	** The above line does imply his control of the the human world is almost complete, Limbo City is essentially his capital, his place of power, his Hell Gate is there, we just don't see the world at large, but the ending does imply that demons are appearing ''everywhere'' with Mundus' death, further implying he had much greater control of the world than actually shown.
46	* For what reason Vergil can't beat a butcher? The fact that the FinalBoss can't defeat a MiniBoss is meaningless.
47	** It's never shown he can't beat it. He was just busy using the barrier to protect himself while he was trying to to make sure no one could steal data on his plans. Remember how long it took him and Kat to do that while Dante fought the demons? Well, it would have taken even longer if Vergil didn't already start.
48	** Vergil also can't use Yamato, since it'll reveal that he's a son of Sparda.
49	* In the beginning, both Mundus and Kat refers to the "Hunter" as if there are more of them (Kat says "''a'' Hunter demon". Considering that it was pretty tough to bring down (it was killable only because Kat used her wiccan voodoo spray potion to make it vulnerable), why didn't Mundus send more of them after Dante, rather than using his mooks? Btw yes, I know that wiccan and voodoo are two different things, so don't bother me on that point.
50	** Mundus wasn't actively trying to kill Dante, not so hard at least. He only noticed that the Hunter didn't do its job when the Succubus died, and by the time Dante killed Bob, he was in another level of power. Maybe he thought a Hunter wouldn't be enough anymore, or maybe they're pretty rare and that particular one was his only one, but not the only one of its kind. Or something. Mundus doesn't really seem to plan things ahead.
51	** Mundus was just using the Hunter to find Dante. So once it did it's job, Mundus didn't need it anymore.
52	* Where were all the angels in this story? Given that they appear to be enemies to the demons, I'd expect them to be out there fighting beside Dante and Vergil or at least supporting them from behind the scenes. Were they too busy fighting Bayonetta?
53	** Considering that Mundus has taken over the world, maybe they have already been wiped out ([[RunningGag possibly by Bayonetta]]). Or they don't care about humanity and are too scared to fight Mundus.
54	** Assuming that the Bayonetta of this setting isn't different from the other one. Anyway, considering that Mundus is in charge of at least a good chunk of the world and that he has a penchant for snacking on Angel's Hearts, one could assume that they were either killed or forced to hide away.
55	** In most christian mythology, it's said that Earth is the realm of man and demons and only the ones who truly believe in god can be saved on earth. So it may be a simple matter of territory. If the Angels or God moved on earth, it may be a sign to the demons that the final war has begun and it may become a worse situation overall.
56	* Does anyone find it implausible that, in Vergil's Downfall, he falls for the obvious illusions so readily? I know he's not at his best and they're saying what he wants to hear, but they're also talking with the VoiceOfTheLegion/extruding black tentacles/in places they can't be/any combination of the above. Vergil has never seemed so gullible before!
57	** Remember, this isn't [=DMC3=] Vergil, this is [=DmC=] Vergil. At this point in time, he's probably feeling betrayed/tired/revengeful enough that he'll hear whatever gives him power and self-respect again.
58	*** I always thought it was more of a symbolic kinda thing. He knew they were just manifestations of his own heart, but killing them symbolically allowed him to "deal" with his own conflicting feelings.
59	*** So I guess Vergil was facing his demons?
60	** Vergil murders the hell out of the source of those illusions, so he was in control of the situation. And considering said source was his doppelganger (with whom he tag teams in his Devil Trigger), I'd say he had a decent idea of what he was getting into, and there was only ever one path he would've chosen from the start.
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62	* Could [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFLUE2kdemE these]] be considered GoodBadBugs?
63	** Probably. It's not like it can happen without warning in the middle of a fight.
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65	* Could Dante be considered a DesignatedHero? The games portrays him as being better than Vergil by the end, but to me, it seems the only thing that makes him 'better' is his love for Kat. Both brothers don't seem too worried that they left humanity in ruins. I could be wrong, but despite the desire to rule humans, Vergil at least wanted to help rebuild society, unlike Dante.
66	** Well, DesignatedHero happens when the story tries to tell you this character is heroic, but you notice he isn't. It's why the trope is YMMV. If you aren't convinced he's any real bit heroic, then it's a valid interpretation of the game's narrative failure.
67	** Vergil does not respect humans as anything but tools -- he's a racial supremacist who's much too willing to sacrifice human lives to forward his own plans. Dante outright says he will protect the world, and he's spent most of his life either being attacked and tortured by demons or running from them, so he can at least empathise with us (which is made clear in his friendship with Kat; they bond through their shared trauma). Dante is compassionate, Vergil is not. The story really ends too soon for us to see what form Dante's protection will take, but at least he won't be poisoning, mind-controlling, sacrificing, or attacking us. And Vergil, well, Vergil apparently ''stops loving'' his twin brother when the guy won't let him conquer the world. I know which one I find more heroic.
68	*** If your brother was perfectly willing to kill you, you'd feel like cutting emotional ties too.
69	*** "Perfectly willing" on Dante's part is an overstatement. Nephilim are hard to kill, Vergil draws his blade first, and ''he'' has no qualms about slicing Dante into ribbons - he never hesitates, even when Dante gives him opportunities to back down. Dante's also completely crushed at having driven Vergil away once the fight's over.
70	*** Vergil using Doppleganger basically forced Dante to have to rely on Dt much more than he usually does, and its heavily implied that overuse of DT basically was pushing Dante toward SuperpoweredEvilSide, hence why everything else in the area appears normal, but Dante is still in DT, only Kats' frantic begging stopped him from tipping over.
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72	* Why does no one on the boardwalk so much as spare a glance at the crazy hooded girl talking to no one and acting like someone's about to shoot her?
73	** The Hunter has already started grabbing parts of the scenery and flinging them around, including Dante's trailer. Most likely they were busy running. [[SomebodyElsesProblem Besides, it's not their problem]].
74	*** Watch the scene again, the people are just casually walking by, not paying her any attention. They don't start running until the ferris wheel gets destroyed.
75	*** Still doesn't matter. Crazy girl obviously talking to herself, who cares? I've seen stranger things in street theatre. Also, those people are being regularly dosed with mind-altering chemicals to suppress their initiative.
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77	* What exactly was Vergil hoping to accomplish with his anonymous videos? If I were to see a video of a guy in a Halloween mask talking about demons secretly controlling the world, I would in no way take it seriously, and would dismiss the person as utterly delusional, and would certainly not need some media pundit telling me that the masked guy is delusional. In fact, it seems that by putting them on TV, Mundus was just giving them undue attention.
78	** My guess? Vergil's talking specifically to Dante. Trying to get ''him'' to "wake up." Vergil's just disguising it as a human-oriented thing to obfuscate his own nature. Also, Mundus wasn't putting him on the TV, they were hijacking broadcasts.
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80	* Why did Kat try to stop Dante from killing Vergil at the end? This is one of those times where killing the villain really would have made a lot more sense because both Dante and Kat were party to what he really had in mind and neither of them agreed it was best for society. By turning against him, they've become marked by Vergil as traitors to his cause and he will continue to hunt them as part of his campaign should he live past the battle. So killing him right there, while unfortunate, seems like the most logical thing to do since they will either be forced to fight again (and be put into the same situation) or perish during Vergil's next move.
81	** Kat took it pretty badly when Vergil acted like a complete dick. How well would she take it if [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim Dante stooped down to Vergil's level]], just plunging Rebellion down his chest and almost killing him? From what I can tell, she was probably trying to save Dante's humanity.
82	** It seems that Dantes' use of DT so much in the fight basically drove him to BerserkerRage, if he had stayed in DT any longer he probably would of went full demon, Kat was doing exactly as described above, pulling Dante back from the brink and losing his humanity.
83	** Also Kat said that Vergil "saved her" from her foster home and helped her learn to deal with demons. She says that he saved her life, so that might mean that she still has residual feelings from that. Keeping Dante from killing him might be her way of trying to pay him back.
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85	* At the end of the Bob Barbas boss fight, Dante destroys Barbas's demonic head and shoots him twice in the chest through limbo, killing him. However, at the start of the fight Barbas drops his demonic head for a second to rant about how awful Dante and the Order are. Why didn't Dante just shoot him then?
86	** Dante still loves to fight. There are better ways to handle it but why turn down an opportunity to give your opponent a fighting chance? If faced with a great opponent, Dante would rather let them ready themselves in order to get a challenge.
87	** Getting to beat the shit out of Bob Barbas? Who wouldn't take the opportunity? I'd beat the shit out of snobby, self-righteous dicks too if I had the chance, like Jack Thompson for example.
88	** If we're going for a logical answer though, it's possible that the first time (before the fight) Bob shows himself, he was just communicating with Dante. The boss fight could be Dante weakening Bob to the point where the former can shoot the latter from Limbo and into the Real World.
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90	* Why does Dante's Coat have a Union jack on the arm? He isn't British
91	** Either came with the jacket and he doesn't mind it; or he's a huge fan of punk rock (his hair style, his clothing choice and life style). Also as it's never exactly said how old he is, so he may have been around since the punk rock wave.
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93	* More of a meta-question; is that the real Eva that Vergil encounters at the end of VD Level 4: Heartless, or is it just Hell's EmpathicEnvironment at work like it did with Kat and Dante? The internet as a whole, TV Tropes and Website/TheOtherWiki included, can't seem to decide which it is one way or the other.
94	** One of the guys who worked on the DLC said that in his mind it was indeed her; she was condemned to Hell after her death because she fell in love with a demon. In general it's supposed to be ambiguous.
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96	* So when the Order HQ gets invaded why doesn't the main server room have a human world escape but has one in limbo? Vergil said himself that he prefers not to be in limbo incase it Mundus finds out he is nephilim too, being the only race that can easily do the planewalker thing, it would have been more prudent for him to have some form of escape hatch as well in the human world rather than only limbo.
97	** If Vergil's ever in a position where he needs to escape the server room in a hurry, he has bigger problems than risking giving himself away. That's why it's an emergency exit rather than the one he typically uses.
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99	* Are the, uh... Things in Vergil's DLC ever really defined? The wiki apparently calls them Hollow Kat and Hollow Dante, and IIRC the game calls the Vergil illusion(?) Hollow Vergil, too, but what ''are'' they? Illusions made by the demons (perhaps to get Vergil fully on their side)? Manifestations of Vergil's subconscious? Neither? A combination? Or is it up for interpretation what, exactly, they are?
100	** Pretty sure it's supposed to be ambiguous, but I'd lean on the side of them being aspects of Vergil's subconscious given the whole vision quest flavour of the DLC.

Context Headscratchers / DmCDevilMayCry