Line #90 Headscratchers/Collar6


1	* Characters don't seem to know how their own world (which is "our world except when it isn't") works.
2	** Michelle tricks Mistress Butterfly by switching mistress/slave roles with Laura. Butterfly is somehow ''wholly unaware'' that a bet made with "Mistress Sixx" is not actually a bet made with the red-headed dominant she was talking to, but whomever holds that position at a given time.
3	*** Butterfly is arrogant, and Sixx had to go to great lengths to make this trick work. Furthermore, Butterfly still may have known while acting surprised. She made it pretty clear at the beginning that she thought she knew what Sixx was up to, and she's also pointed out that this works out to her advantage anyway (instead of breaking Sixx, she gets to break Laura).
4	*** That's ''reaching'' - this is a smug and arrogant character, so why would she feign ignorance?
5	*** It's possible she feigned ignorance because she didn't want to reveal her full hand (or let the Association know she'd been spying), especially when she still stood to gain (if she gets Laura, she still gets revenge by breaking the one Sixx loves).
6	*** Nonononono. Why would her feigning ignorance that Mistress Sixx's obligations and even bets can be transferred at will help her in any way? And the point was that Michelle went to great lengths to avoid her ''actually'' knowing, bugs or no bugs, that she had exchanged places with Laura.
7	*** Forget the ObfuscatingStupidity, that's not necessary. Butterfly was clearly not expecting the switch. Why should she instantly realise all the implications of this? ExactWords and ReadTheFinePrint are tropes for a reason, this kind of thing happens all the time.
8	*** Seems to have been explained at the conclusion of the first major arc -- Butterfly/Evita is from the European Alliance and unfamiliar with the GDA's rules. (Presumably her slaves did as much research as they could and fed her information but they couldn't cover every contingency). Further, she was possessed by Xor-Talatia, a spirit of pure malevolence, who probably didn't know or care about rules when what he wanted was so close.
9	** Laura is unaware that some dominants and submissives have ''magical powers'' that they don't exactly seem to hide.
10	*** This seems to be something fairly rare, and not something non-association members were aware of. Furthermore, she'd heard of it, just didn't realize it was literal.
11	*** This seems to have been explained in that Laura is an immigrant. This raises far more questions however such as if the abilities are "common knowledge" in one nation why are the not common knowledge in others? Has the mass media died? If migration between these states is possible then how can the way that one nation functions and the true identity of one of that nations key players be utter unknowns ''to a person arriving in that nation to live?'' Are there no citizenship tests? No immigration control? Nothing?
12	*** Given that its described as "Puritan," there's a good chance that Laura's homeland is a totalitarian state who heavily censor information. It's doubtful that they'd want the people to know about dominant and submissive spirits.
13	*** 1) She is an immigrant and so it is unlikely that we are dealing with a totalitarian state here. She is not a refugee, an immigrant. If she were a refuge then it would have been a hell of a lot more of an issue when it was brought up. 2) Given the nature of this nation the modern frickin' USA is puritanical. Is the modern USA totalitarian? Hardly. And just because someone has high standards about sexual content in public does not make them totalitarian, just look at the UK, cradle of modern democracy. Puritan (as commonly used rather than as originally meant) is an antonym for Hedonist, a person who believes that personal pleasure is the only intrinsic good or, to put it another way, life is about pleasure '''and only pleasure'''. A puritan by that definition is a person who believes in denying themselves pleasure which would include almost everyone in our world if viewed through the eyes of the characters in this story. (As originally meant Puritans where the Christians who followed in the wake of Martian Luther, attacking excess, waste and corruption in the church and society at large. They were a broad bunch but typically on the liberal end of the then political scale disagreeing with the lavish ceremony and heavy taxation of the Roman Catholic church and aristocracy.)
14	*** We don't have to assume it's totalitarian. Laura appears to have rather severe amnesia. She doesn't even remember that she doesn't know where she's from except that its from outside Association territories.
15	*** Or she didn't bother to check where it was on the map after getting to Association territory.
16	*** It doesn't matter what "puritan" originally meant or properly still means, the implication (when contrasted with the presented world of [[FetishFuelFuture everyone is into BDSM and extremely open about it]]) is a society that rejects that kind of culture. Having grown up without experiencing it, and probably being sheltered (totalitarian or not) from the knowledge of it, it's plausible that an ordinary person like Laura wouldn't know about the stranger aspects of it. At any rate, it looks like we'll find out what's up shortly.
17	*** While still a rather large AssPull [[http://collar6.com/2010/collar-6-168 this has finally been explained]]. Apparently Laura isn't from territories controlled by the Association, she would have no particular reason to know that they have magic powers. Especially given that she doesn't even seem to remember where she was born. Further, Michael Kappel reveals that the women of Sybion were unknowingly put under {{Power Limiter}}s to suppress their sexual energy, while the men had none of their own.
18	** Michelle is mystified by her literally superhumanly competent maids.
19	*** Mystified or merely surprised?
20	** Entirely too much of what goes on feels like an Extended AssPull -- in short order, the comic introduces Judiciatrixes, the existance of Elemental Powers, BONDAGE NINJAS, several seemingly contradictory rules (joking about torturing a sub with knives is somehow less punishable than spying on someone, and apparently admitting to torturing a spy with "electroplay" is fine and dandy.) Elements of the story are introduced and ignored like a KudzuPlot.
21	*** An AssPull, or FridgeBrilliance? In alot of ways this comic is intentionally following the structure of a long-running anime (ie Manga/DragonBall, Manga/OnePiece, Manga/{{Naruto}}, etc.), but placed in a BDSM world. The sudden introduction of more powerful techniques and new characters and classes of characters is actually a staple of that type of story, as are [[ChekhovsGun Chekhov's Guns]] that don't come up again for very long periods of time.
22	*** Asspull. Nothing in the comic is ever set up properly and there are massive inconsistency issues with tone. Also, when anime series do it, it's an Asspull there too.
23	*** Note that the 'spying' complaint was apparently based on incomplete info--the Judiciatrix specifically calls out the spying as deserving of punishment.
24	* The comic veers between trying to respect the ethical and consensual aspects of real-world [=BDSM=] and wildly ignoring them in favor of a vaguely defined setup where people can be enslaved, help captive, or whatever as plot and author's kink demands.
25	** A whole arc revolves around Mistress Sixx realizing she's mistreated Laura badly by, among other things, drugging her without her knowledge or consent. On the other hand, the major arc of the comic involves a "spank-off" where a dominant tries to ''force'' another's submissive to use her safeword (!), and if the submissive does, her dominant will be forced to serve the winner indefinitely.
26	*** There's a distinction here between the Association's rules, and Sixx's ethics (the letter versus the spirit of the law).
27	*** And it's a huge conflict between ''both of those'' and ethical principles of safe, sane, and consensual BDSM.
28	*** This is certainly true of the drugging, but the spanking contest is to free Trina, who Sixx clearly has strong feelings for. You should also remember that, in the end, Sixx [[spoiler: put herself under the crop instead of Laura or Ginger]].
29	*** It's only "helping" Trina if she's an involuntary slave, which has been hinted not to be the case. And it doesn't matter who she puts under the crop - if she loses, "Sixx" and all of "Mistress Sixx"'s possessions belong to Butterfly.
30	*** I'd like to point out, Sixx didn't know that Trina was there willingly. so she honestly thought they were helping Trina until they talked in Subspace.
31	** I think the problem is that the strip is putting the determination of what qualifies as "safe, sane, and consensual" in the hands of the ''dominant.'' Healthy BDSM relationships put that determination in the hands of the ''submissive,'' who is after all the one things are going to be done TO!
32	*** The comic has made it perfectly clear Butterfly is supposed to be evil, very much so. So, what makes you call Trina's enslavement a "healthy" BDSM relationship? And even in Michelle and Laura's case, while healthy, things can always go wrong. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. That doesn't mean the relationship suddenly isn't a healthy one anymore? Laura was given complete control over the situation once it had arisen. Where's the "in the hands of the dom" now?
33	*** What's "safe and sane" are clearly wildly different in this world, since it largely seems to run on anime-logic (in the real world Michelle wouldn't have survived being hit by a giant pillar of fire, and here it was more a matter of whether or not she'd break from the pain). Furthermore, people seem to be able to "consent" to giving another person alot more control, but they still do consent.
34	** I don't see how it's bothersome that our characters aren't perfect. Individuality is something to be treasured, even if it leads to be things. So what if they're not perfect followers of every rule of the book? What fun would that be. Let people have their own personality instead of expecting them to all act the same way.
35
36	* Electrically torturing an unwilling captive to force her to give up information is not something any sympathetic character should flippantly call "electroplay".
37	** It should be noted that said captive wasn't a sub, she was a spy. Most likely the Association has rule to let doms protect themselves from powerplays.
38	*** I am not even sure the spy is covered by association laws for subs: if she is just a ninja for anyone to hire, Sixx can only get into trouble is if the police finds her. [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveMoney But she can easily put a clamp on THAT.]]
39	*** Wow, I said I was bugged by ''a sympathetic character smugly admitting she tortured someone'', and ''that'' strikes you two as something that should be derailed into a discussion of Association rules?
40	*** Granted its a JackBauerInterrogationTechnique, but Sixx isn't a squeaky-clean innocent either. She's absolutely determined to keep her estate, and both Ginger and Laura, safe, and if that means hurting the people who want to help Butterfly hurt them...well...
41	*** ''Torturing someone'' to get advantage in a bet ''she willingly joined into''. Everyone's all "Oh, no, Butterbutt threatened Trina with knives!" on the presumption it wasn't simply play, but they're not even blinking at Michelle doing the same thing to a helpless, certainly unwilling captive.
42	*** Sixx has a clear vision of who her friends and enemies are. The situation was that if she loses, she loses Laura, her everything. I wouldn't lose a night's sleep over securing over torturing someone who came in to my home to aid in the destruction of everything I hold dear for information. This woman is an enemy, come to destroy her and friends, plain and simple. No compassion. The end.
43	* The author appears especially hypersensitive to criticisms of her webcomic. After the fans caught wind of the review on Bad Wiki she put up a not-so-subtle "Disclaimer" 'For the insanely stupid' to 'do actual research on BDSM' except the whole point of the Bad Wiki criticisms was for the fact that there could actually be people are are INDEED ignorant on how BDSM ACTUALLY works. And going around drugging slaves and electrocuting people doesn't really send out a safe message to people who don't know better.
44	** Note: the author is a man named Steven Wallace. Even Bad Webcomics Wiki acknowledges this.
45	** The author's sensitive to more than just the webcomic. "Madame" seems to have it out for ''Webcomic/LastRes0rt'', claiming the comic is somehow cheating on the webcomic ranking sites (LR's currently denying Webcomic/Collar6 the #1 spot on [=WebcomicZ=]), despite the fact that "Madame" [[http://forum.collar6.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=473&start=0 dedicates a special thread on the forums]] [[{{Irony}} to how to circumvent the IP filtering systems and game those same sites]].
46	*** And if the edits on Website/ThisVeryWiki are anything to go by? It's all because LR's creator dared to ''[[FelonyMisdemeanor offer some help with Collar6's website design.]]'' NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished, I suppose...
47	*** The owners of several webcomic listings were contacted on the matter and after some research most found it to be indeed so that the creator or Webcomic/LastRes0rt was using college computers to vote multiple times. On a technical note: this could have been prevented by the college simply putting all their computers inside a VLAN. This has the effect that anyone outside the network would see the same IP for every computer inside the VLAN.
48	*** One, no college with more than 100 people would even think of using a VLAN because of the insane bandwidth cap. Two, the college that the votes were coming from is several states away from where the creator of Webcomic/LastRes0rt lives. Three; the [=WebcomicZ=] admin decided he couldn't find any foul play on LR's part... [[TakeThat but he did find some Collar6 sockpuppets...]]
49	* What bugs me is that this comic has gone down the route where it's clear we're ''supposed'' to sympathize with Michelle and consider Mistress Butterfly "evil", but we really have no basis on which to do so.
50	** Michelle is fully as arrogant as Butterfly, and probably more so. It took a major slap in the face by Ginger calling safeword to even realize she was doing ''anything'' wrong, and even then, she didn't reconsider her bet (or sending away Laura and Ginger to keep them from becoming Butterfly's property if she lost).
51	** The Association apparently allows and even ''encourages'' mistress/sub relationships on a basis other than two people wanting and enjoying that dynamic with each other. ''If'' Butterfly violated Trina's safeword with involuntary knife-play, nobody seems to react to it as if she'd admitted breaking a major rule. So ''why'' on Earth should ''we'' care whether Butterfly's broken an Association rule by planting bugs?
52	** And Butterfly doesn't, to our knowledge, have an involuntary captive bound and lying in a padded room, one eye apparently swollen shut, and a victim of electrical torture. ''Spy'' or not.
53	*** Not to mention that if her merely using a spy was enough to call off the bet and get Butterfly in serious trouble, Michelle's keeping the spy captive for weeks and risking her beloved Laura becoming Butterfly's property was done purely out of arrogance and curiosity...which Michelle basically admits in the 2010-07-05 comic.
54	** And this is all barring the fact that as this is primarily a bondage fetish comic where you can take liberties with the characters and consent that you normally can't in real life or even roleplay, why do we care who's under who's thumb? It's enough that [[ReveriePlanetarian This Troper]], who liked the comic previously for being a BDSM romance comic with pretty funny gags and lots of fantastic toys and devices is going through...no idea what to call it. Fetish Induced Reader Apathy?
55	* Am I the only one who finds the whole "dominant energy" magic crap to be a massive Jumping of the Shark? It wasn't, as far as I remember, foreshadowed or hinted at up until it was used. Like a DeusExMachina, but not really saving anything.
56	** I think that's known as an AssPull. And no, you're not. It came entirely out of nowhere.
57	** If it wasn't a JumpingTheShark moment for the ''comic'', it certainly was for the ''creators'' when folks started calling them out on it. Oy, the snippyness and the "It's his comic, STFU or GTFO" response from the FanDumb...
58	*** What fans have said that? As for the issue of it being an AssPull, that's kind of the point. This show is following the formula of a {{Shonen}} anime. Think of Anime/DragonballZ, for a long time there was no sign of KiManipulation, then Goku met Roshi and we got the Kamehameha wave. While other Shonen's did feature Ki attacks from the beginning, they still tend to have NewPowersAsThePlotDemands, such as the Tessaiga in Inuyasha, or [[Manga/{{Naruto}} Sasuke's]] rare bloodline, or any of numerous other {{Next Tier Power Up}}s, and cases of HoldingBackThePhlebotinum.
59	*** Even if it's done to imitate another genre, it's still an AssPull. Besides, that seems to be about the only element being drawn from such shows. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's an AssPull. But my original point was that it was jumping the shark: I was fine with relative mundanity, I could accept a secret society, but now you're putting magic in my bondage, and that's not working. Especially since there's signs that it will all go away after the current arc.
60	*** We've probably been spoiled by more popular media on this. It's classic for stories that involve magic/energies/stuff... to mention it extremely early on. Webcomic/Collar6 didn't. That's fine by me. The first 3 pages of a comic don't need to have an gigantic display of fantasy elements to cement the fact that it's a fantasy comic. You call it an AssPull, I call it introducing stuff when needed.
61	** You guys should really pay attention as sub-space was hinted at as soon as page 30. So why would introducing other magical powers when the main character suffers from amnesia (and therefore would have no idea about them) be such a problem?
62	*** Except that this term is used in the community to mean the phycological headspace that Subs enter. While this may be a hint for some, the target audience would be all at sea...
63	* It is not an assumption to think that a person in another's "Harem" has slept with them. That is the definition of a Harem. This whole comic is full of similar sloppy word use and story telling.
64	** Actually, the word originally just meant the place that the women lived in in the Islamic world. But, since foreign men weren't allowed in there, Westerners let their fantasies run wild, hence the modern meaning.
65	* What sort of ratio of Doms to Subs are we looking at here? A Harem of hundreds? Really? So why are the majority of the people in this world so willing to hand over control of their lives? Even if we accept that BDSM is just massively more popular in this world or that usual life just has BDSM trappings (which jars with the earlier portions of the comic) then why does social power get tied to Dominance, given that the demographics for Subs is, on average, a step or two up on the socio-economic ladder. If this is meant to be real BDSM then what about all those high power people who Sub to escape the pressure of their lives or those who Dom to try and get some control in a life that people dictate to them?
66	** It depends. While what we've seen up till now is a slave promising to forever be with one mistress/master, there can be casual dommes, in it for the money. Not been introduced, but I don't rule it out.
67	* Come to that, where are all the Male Doms? Or all the '''men''' for that matter? I think we have had about six men in panel of which 4 have been morons in the park and two have been subs (although one of them might have been a girl). I know this is f/f D/s rubber fetishism, but it is starting to look like a LadyLand.
68	** My question is, why do you WANT male characters? It's fine as a LadyLand.
69	** The writer has brought back the five guys from comics 6 and 7. Remember them? Of course you don't, the comic didn't even have a story when they were introduced. But there we have it, the all male "voyeur squad" apparently provides a valuable service for the Association.
70	*** What are you talking about? I remember them perfectly. What does the comic not having a story at the time have to do with whether or not I remember them? I thought bringing them back was an awesome BrickJoke.
71	* What kind of slavery includes contracts and pay cheques? I am fairly certain after that point it has ceased to be slavery. This is more of a bug in terms of the fact that it changes the whole linguistic dynamic of the word "slave" or "property" (as applied to people) making the social dynamic peculiar.
72	** Sure it's peculiar but it isn't an uncommon part of BDSM fantasy. The dominant less as a sadistic slave owner and more as doting pet owner (or parent if that's your fetish) who goes to great lengths to protect the submissive. It's also much more amenable to story telling.
73	*** I suppose part of the reason it bugs me is that there is a perfectly good word for this relationship, it is called serfdom.
74	*** I think "slave" is just a word used for fun. Some slaves like being called pet-names. The amount of freedom and individuality they get don't relate to that, far as I'm concerned.
75	* "That sounds like a male orientated religious society alright." How common are those exactly?? / Yeah.
76	** I'd have bought the line if she just called it a {{Cult}}. (Actually, that would explain a lot about the island anyway...)
77	** I don't see any implication that they're somehow common. It's about men. It's religious. It's a simple A+B thing.
78	*** "That sounds like a banana based steak sauce alright." That is also simple A+B, but it makes it sound like a common thing, no matter how bizarre such a condiment would be.
79	*** [[ComicallyMissingThePoint So you're saying the solution is Tamis Anghang sauce?]]
80	*** Are you both familiar with the term "sarcasm"? You can make a sentence so idiotic that it becomes obvious it's not intended to be interpreted literally, there's something more behind it. In this case, I see Sixx having men-issues. That's part of her personality, not an AssPull.
81	** ''How common are those exactly??'' Well, they're fairly common in ''our'' world, and [[DefiledForever they]] [[DoubleStandard still]] [[MyGirlIsNotASlut have]] [[MadonnaWhoreComplex some]] [[SlutShaming influence]]. It wasn't so long ago that men were considered to own their wives, either.
82	* Why does "It's like a Shonen manga" get this comic a free pass on every flaw?
83	** Since when do comics get called out for their flaws? Flaws are perceived by the individual reader. What you think is bad, isn't what someone else considers bad. What you call "a free pass on every flaw" is just people not agreeing with you. Why make such a point of calling out a comic whenever it does something you don't like?
84	*** All the time. Many comics even have lots of in depth discussion of these issues on their own fora, look at how the Order/Miko fight on ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' was dealt with.
85	** It sounds more like defending it as being "like a shonen manga" is just a quick HandWave to explain anything that bothers the rest of the audience, ignoring that not only does the genre have its own flaws (especially if Webcomic/Collar6 is somehow paying homage by REPEATING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM), but that Anime/DragonBallZ, Naruto, Bleach, and the like are NOT the only shonen comics that exist. Manga/DeathNote is shonen without having these same plot flaws, for instance...
86	*** I'd very much like to mention that a lot of people seem to be bothered extremely quickly. Using "I think that's not right" as an excuse to come bitch about it on Tvtropes...
87	*** Well, it's not like anyone can actually discuss these problems on the Webcomic/Collar6 forums, as restricted as they are...
88	* What, exactly, was the point of "Owned"? Nothing really happened, and we didn't learn anything about he universe...
89	** Word of god: no real point. Just an interlude between the actual story. Drawing something else before getting burnt out on the actual story.
90	* Why is it that only two males ever shown in the proper webcomic are not idiots, crude and disgusting voyeurs, polygamous misogynous assholes with god complexes, or some combination of the three? And of those two, only one had a speaking part? If the author is a man, why is he so hell-bent on making his own sex look like the scum of the earth? There's making it a BDSM LadyLand ImprobablyFemaleCast, and then there's actively disparaging half of the world's population at almost every opportunity. Seriously, if you're going to put in disgusting-bordering-on-bastard men, put in a lot more normal ones please, so the readers know that, in your fantasy world, men are not predominantly assholes.
91	** Also the whole "guns are barbaric, we outlawed them a century ago!" thing, coupled with Wolf immediately [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial denying that he has any political opinion on guns]]....
92	*** Or, you can predict that people will probably respond negatively to something that happens in your comic and issue a "just so you know" to prevent gigantic forum-discussion on the issue. And yeah, that requires being pretty quick about it and precise too...
93	*** On the other hand, Wolf has admitted to OWNING a gun...
94	** Although that might explain why, with a lack of wars, the world hasn't become overpopulated yet... most of the girls are lesbians who don't reproduce because the men are too disgusting.
95	* Why has weapons tech NOT STAGNATED? There's no wars, there's no reason to improve beyind bows and knives (although the liquid rubber restraint grenades fit the whole "submission" thing)). Gunpowder tech shouldn't have gotten past fireworks, and yet they have guns (which were outlawed in 1900, so no research should have been going into them, but Sixx's mum has a Glock). I can't wait to hear the VoodooShark for this one.
96	** Remember not everywhere is the BDSM-flavoured Sugarbowl that most of the action takes place in. Weapons are probably manufactured in Puritan Territories, and imported by people like Butterfly.
97	** According to recent comics, [[TheMasquerade they do have wars, but they keep it on the down-low.]]
98	* Does anyone else feel Butterfly has, since the spanking competition and in every strip she appears in thereafter, veered rapidly into [[InvincibleVillain Boring Invincible Villain]] territory? I'm finding it harder and harder to read a strip I used to thoroughly enjoy because it seems every development that introduces a new level of power in the series exists solely to be trounced by Butterfly, who has as yet never been handed a real loss outside throwing the spanking competition to duke it out with a Judicatrix.
99	** I could handle the railroading if the plot was at least going in an entertaining direction. Is anyone else disappointed that the strips spent on "Everyone is Butterfly's prisoner" has been more about Butterfly's gloating and less on some sexy kinky torture, or at least some of that mother-daughter action Butterfly threatened?
100	* Why is it assumed that Trina (when subjected to solitary confinement in the vacubed) has spent a week on the verge of climax with no release? If she's free to move for three hours a day, surely she could take care of that herself.

Context Headscratchers / Collar6