Line #94 Headscratchers/BatmanReturns


1	* If the sewer water is toxic, then how can those penguins swim in it?
2	** Considering that this is a comic book movie, maybe the effect was increased intelligence? It would explain why they mourned him in the end.
3	** The water the penguins were swimming in is clean, while the water he plans to drown the kids and Shreck in is polluted by Shreck's own toxins. The Penguin says he keeps the toxins separate from everything - “there’s a whole lagoon of this crud in the back.”
4	* Why was the Red Triangle Gang kidnapping children in the events before the movie?
5	** They're being led by the Penguin, who is a childlike monster who is essentially working through his anger at his parents by punishing dozens of other children and treating them to the same thing. It's Penguin's plot all along, after all - his plan in Gotham is merely to use Shreck to gain access to places like the Gotham Hall of Records, take notes on that year's newborn children, and dump them in the sewer when the time came. He restarts this plan when his mayoral run gets derailed.
6	** I doubt it was a dry run for the Penguin's ultimate plan. Given how the circus members seem to have reacted (I assume the fat clown was simply the only one brave enough to speak up), they were unaware up 'till then of exactly what the Penguin intended to do with those lists of children. My theory is that the screenwriter(s) were conflating some stereotypes about carnies/circus folk/traveling gypsies/other insular nomadic subcultures wherein it was said (however grotesquely inaccurately) that they would steal children. The usually stated purpose was that they adopted them and raised them to add to their own numbers. While the circus members are never explicitly stated to ''be'' in any way like that particular stereotype of traveling performers as child snatchers, it does seem like this was intended as part of their backstory.
7	** It may not have been the entire Red Triangle Gang, just the Penguin himself. But since children began disappearing anywhere the circus went (because he was a part of it), the entire troupe was suspected of kidnap.
8	* Wouldn't the giant magnifying glasses mounted to the roof of Wayne Manor that catches the light of the Bat-Signal tip people off about Bruce Wayne being Batman?
9	** Well it's late at night and it's winter, so the constant snowing would hide them. Plus, he can likely retract them back into the Batcave.
10	** Or maybe he just lets people think he's a bit of a Batman ''spotter'', innocently keeping track of the mysterious vigilante's appearances from the sidelines. It'd be a bit odd for the son of murder victims ''not'' to at least '''notice''' reports that there's some weirdo in a costume beating up criminals in his hometown.
11	** They ''are'' secretly installed and disguised on the roof of his giant stately home miles away from anywhere. It's not like there's many people poking around there to begin with. The mirrors themselves also point inwards, towards the house (for perhaps obvious reasons), so you can't really see what they are without being up close (which, again, most people wouldn't be); if you happened to notice them you'd likely just assume they were part of the roof ornamentation.
12	* Is pushing Selina Kyle into the street the best idea? Other people could see her falling out the window. Is Shreck that cocky about his ability to not get caught?
13	** It's (Tim Burton's) Gotham. He likely ''wouldn't'' have gotten caught, and even if he had he'd be able to charm and/or bribe his way out of the whole mess. Notice how the only things running up to help Selina were cats, not humans.
14	** It must have been ''very'' late at night or early in the morning given that Shreck would have had to have that talk with the Penguin and return to his office, and the latter likewise for Selina (who notes that she had to go "all the way back"), so it could easily be way past midnight when very few people would be up and about in the financial district.
15	** Plus, we see lots of garbage cans around her after her fall. So, she probably was pushed from a rear window into a filthy and deserted courtyard, nobody saw her falling, and people would only have found the body the next morning while taking the trash out.
16	** The novelization has his son Chip walk in on it almost instantly afterward. Max starts stammering about how she fell and he tried to help her, and then Chip simply smiles and says, "she probably jumped." Max is then described as feeling incredibly proud of his son. Then they go home together and expect somebody to find Selina tomorrow.
17	* Why does Selina talk differently as Catwoman? Based on Selina's character before the beat, I have trouble believing she'd be able to learn a new accent that quickly. Christian Bale talked differently as Batman because of strategic reasons.
18	** She isn't really speaking with a new accent as much as she is giving her normal voice a sly, seductive tone. Completely justified; would you really want to hear Catwoman speaking with Selina's normal, manic voice?
19	** Also, please consider what's known as Waitress Syndrome: a woman adopts a higher pitch in order to come off as non-threatening and placating (y'know, like a waitress; note that as a "lowly assistant/secretary" Selina's not exactly going to earn points for adopting a stronger tone). Though a lot of women get stuck speaking this way, it's quite common for arousal, anger, or some other emotion or scenario to result in a switch to a lower pitch that comes from the diaphragm instead of higher up. It stands to reason that post-FreakOut Selina isn't exactly in the mood for maintaining an ingratiating tone.
20	** Is the obvious answer of "she's not trying to blow her secret identity" not obvious enough?
21	** For anyone interested in the [[WatsonianVersusDoylist Dolyist answer,]] it's because Michelle Pfeiffer was literally vacuum-sealed into such a tight costume. She said she honestly couldn't hear herself talking at times, so presumably the low voice was to help her know how she was sounding reciting the dialogue.
22	* The guided Batarang, the one Batman uses early in the film. Personally, I never had a problem with such an impossible gadget, it's a comic book movie after all... but why doesn't Batman use it ever again?
23	** Because that dog took it.
24	** I thought that thing was poorly executed. They should have made it bulkier and faster. As is, it looked like a thin piece of plastic that gently taps criminals on the forehead and into submission.
25	** Actually, considering that it's Burton's Batman, it probably murdered the hell out of them.
26	** It didn't murder them because those henchmen were seen in later scenes. One got arrested.
27	** And why does the Penguin just ''throw'' it at the Ice Princess? I know that matches his "primitive wild-man" persona, but that's not who he really is.
28	*** That actually serves two purposes: first, it hits her in the head, knocking her out, and making it easier for the Circus Gang to kidnap her. Secondly, the head wound gets her blood on the Batarang, making it easier to implicate Batman in the crime.
29	* When a public zoo becomes condemned, is it customary for the staff to leave the penguins behind to thrive on their own?
30	** Considering what a CrapsackWorld this is, I'm honestly not surprised; maybe the staff were ordered to euthanize the animals but couldn't bring themselves to do it.
31	** I wrote a fanfic once that explained what happened after the Gotham police rounded up the child kidnappers at the Red Triangle Circus (which occurred several years before the events of the movie). The Penguin and what few of his henchpeople were able to escape fled to Canada, where they lived for a time in the Northwest Territories and honed their cold-weather survival skills (which explains why they were able to comfortably inhabit the Arctic World exhibit). After a few years, they came back across the border and bounced around from one American city to another until Penguin had decided that the kidnapping furor had blown over and it was safe to return to Gotham City. According to my {{Fanon}}, then, it's possible that they stole some penguins from another zoo somewhere and brought them to Gotham with them.
32	* Why does the snow ''float on water'' when Baby Oswald gets thrown into the sewer?
33	** Ice floats just fine.
34	** Ice may float just fine, but what we see in this scene are ''individual snowflakes'', which would melt into the water.
35	** Maybe there was a chemical in the water that prevented it from freezing at the usual temperature? So it was cold enough to maintain snow but couldn't freeze normally. We are told that there's toxic waste being produced and the Penguin ends up with a pool of it.
36	** We're also told the toxicity levels are Shreck's fault, and if Oswald's a baby, Shreck can't be old enough to have a job, let alone run a company.
37	** Not necessarily. Though rare, it is possible for people to own/run a (big) company at a young age. A recent example would be Facebook which was started by a guy in college.
38	** Did you not notice that Chip Shreck wasn't exactly 20 even? Or Shreck's white hair? It's more than possible that Shreck lead the company then too; he was certainly old enough.
39	** I chalked it up to [[SpecialEffectFailure Special Effect Failure]] and it was fake snow they used in the scene. Nobody realized it would float till it was too late to fix it.
40	* The "Gotham City: 33 Years Later" caption always left me scratching my head. The Penguin is only thirty-three years old? He's deformed, yeah, but not enough to make it undiscernable that he's obviously at least into his mid-forties.
41	** He's lived underground most of his life, despite occasional trips to the surface, and has been exposed to chemicals and deprived of proper nutrition. His looking much older than he is is no surprise.
42	** That and it adds to the already rampant [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic biblical symbolism]].
43	* I realize the answer is "there'd be no movie," but ''why didn't Penguin's parents just put him up for adoption''?
44	** They likely (and sadly correctly) assumed no one would want him because of his gross deformities.
45	** They were rich, probably well-known people. If Oswald was somehow traced back to them, they would probably be incredibly embarrassed. And when you're a shallow rich asshole character in a movie, embarrassment isn't something you can get over too well.
46	** Why only in a movie? Shallow rich assholes don't take kindly being embarrassed in real life too...
47	** He had more going for him than just his 'gross deformities'; before they got rid of him, he had bitten the doctor's nose off at his birth and killed the family cat as a toddler. He wasn't just deformed. He was violent.
48	** He did not bite the doctor's nose off. The doctor just held the handkerchief up to his nose because he was so disgusted by Penguin's deformities.
49	* So how did Selina come back from the dead, exactly? Are stray cats magic?
50	** We don't ''know'' if she came back from the dead. Maybe there was some weird cat magic involved, [[MaybeMagicMaybeMundane or]] maybe she just got lucky and went nuts when she woke up surrounded by stray cats.
51	** That was the point of her character. She was dead and then resurrected. I think that's pretty much canon.
52	** ForTheEvulz, really.
53	** Nah, there is no evidence she actually died. She just claimed that herself.
54	** While some of what she went through might have been survivable she also clearly has superhuman powers of some kind. Between the falls, the electricity, and the gunshot wounds she should be a broken, bloody, fried, twitching mess. But instead, she's intact, barely injured, and walking it all off. Too much happens to her for it all to just be luck and we have confirmation of metahumans in later movies.
55	* Why exactly was Shreck's plan with using Gotham's electricity? Why was he sucking power from Gotham and storing it?
56	** One of Creator/TimBurton's biographers theorizes that Shreck intended to "corner the market" on electricity (in Gotham, anyway) and sell it to the people at artificially high rates (since the stockpiling would enable him to claim that some of the power was unaccounted for).
57	** Isn't this similar to what Enron would later do in real life?
58	** This is ''precisely'' what Enron did. However, the actual "power-draining" portion of the plan is not, as far as I'm aware, illegal, but their accounting practices were. So, as long as he buried the terms of what the plant would actually do in {{Technobabble}} double talk, he'd have no reason to worry about it, making his attempted murder of Selina a bit unusual.
59	*** When Enron was exposed for exploiting the California energy crisis, they faced a ton of public backlash and, more importantly, their stock price started sliding. This slide exposed their criminal activity (they created a lot of shady entities they could transfer debts and losses to, but the way those entities were set up meant the plan only worked so long as the stock price kept rising. When it stopped going up, Enron was on the hook for the debt), they went bankrupt, and top management including the CEO was arrested. Schreck was likely worried about the public backlash bringing attention he didn’t want.
60	*** Except that the plans were implied to already be drenched in {{Technobabble}}, but Selina was smart enough to work out the true purpose of the "power plant" anyway, and could therefore explain it to anyone who was interested.
61	* One plot point that makes no sense at all when FridgeLogic is applied to it is that people would actually believe that Batman would push the Ice Princess off a building. It certainly looked bad... but wasn't it completely out of character for Batman? Yes, he kills - but he only kills [[AssholeVictim people who reasonably deserve it]], and no one can claim that that girl deserved to die by any stretch of the imagination. And even if, by some perverse logic, Batman ''did'' think she deserved to die, why would a guy who's a known recluse and has been known to employ smoke bombs to mask his exit from a crowded area commit such a heinous crime ''in a place where he knew everyone would be able to see him''? Considering all of this, it wouldn't be hard to arrive at the conclusion that Batman was probably framed.
62	** The popular refrain about Batman is that [[HeWhoFightsMonsters "he's almost as crazy as those he fight"]]. People decided he'd finally slipped.
63	** All it took was one idiot opening his mouth and then mob mentality kicked in.
64	** How exactly did they see Batman at the top of that building?
65	** Because after the Ice Princess was kidnapped, Batman's Batarang was found at the scene and a news reporter was pressing Commissioner Gordon on the possibility of Batman being the culprit. Given this, and the fact that Bruce notices a headline reading "BATMAN BLOWS IT" earlier in the movie, it's pretty clear the public was already beginning to lose trust in Batman (what little trust they ever had). Seeing the Ice Princess herself fall from a building with Batman visible on the roof just so happened to fuel their already-seeded suspicions.
66	** By this point in the series, he wasn't quite regarded as the hero that we the viewer regard him. He hadn't quite reached the level of celebrity that he did in ''Film/BatmanAndRobin''. So he stopped the Joker but is it implied that anyone other than Commissioner Gordon and a few top city officials knows for certain he's one of the Good Guys?
67	* For someone who's allegedly lived almost all of his life in a sewer, The Penguin seems suspiciously well-educated. He knows what the Reichstag fire was, to cite a prominent example.
68	** He ''didn't'' live in a sewer, even primarily. He worked for the Red Triangle Circus for many years, and he could have gotten his fellow performers to bring him newspapers and library books.
69	* So, did The Penguin actually think the firstborn sons of Gotham would just jump into a pool of raw sewage to their deaths because he was holding a cute umbrella?!
70	** Well, it's either that or try to make a break for it - and considering some of the firearms the Red Triangle Gang had in their arsenal, that would ''not'' have been a good idea.
71	** I always thought that he was just going to hypnotize the kids with the umbrella.
72	** I don't think the Penguin was being completely literal when he said that, he was just taunting Max and being a sadistic A-Hole in anticipation as his plan neared fruition.
73	* After the events of this movie, why is everyone completely okay with Batman again by the beginning of ''Forever?'' The only person who could have spoken for him being innocent of his kidnap and murder charge was the Ice Princess, who was, unfortunately, said murder victim.
74	** Odds are that what was left of the Red Triangle Gang, was rounded up and testified against the Penguin as well as most of the other crimes they helped him commit. Penguin died so they weren't afraid of his wrath anymore.
75	** Plus, when Penguin sent some of the gang members out to kidnap the firstborn kids and Batman stopped them, it's implied that he took them to the police, so odds are Batman was able to clear his name.
76	** There's also Selina. It's possible that she could have approached the police and insisted that Batman was innocent, purely out of remorse. Of course, one would wonder how she could clear Batman without revealing that she was Catwoman and was in on the Ice Princess's kidnapping in the first place, but then again she could have just explained the logic in the "Batman's-a-recluse" rationalization above - and that, coupled with the Red Triangle Gang's confessions, would be more than enough to exonerate Batman.
77	** Peter David's novelization of ''Forever'' features a flashback scene where Batman meets Harvey Dent for the first time. Dent suggests Batman turn himself in for the events of ''Returns'', and Batman comments "If you're referring to that business with The Penguin, his gang can tell you everything you need to know." before telling Dent where to find them. So, at least in the book, it was addressed.
78	** Another thing is that Commissioner Gordon was unconvinced from the start that it was really Batman.
79	** The last thing we see in the movie is the Bat-Signal, so Gordon clearly still trusts Batman.
80	* How did the Penguin get his hands on the plans for the Batmobile? There was no internet at the time, and even if there was, Batman would presumably be way too smart to put the plans on it.
81	** For that matter, how weak is the Batmobile's floor that Batman can punch his way through it?
82	** Penguin probably got the blueprints while searching through the public records.
83	** Agreed. Batman is allied with the city and it's not necessarily a revelation of his identity to register the Batmobile with the city. I'm sure the 1966 Adam West Batman would have done so.
84	** It's been ages since I read the film's novelization, but I do recall that there was a brief explanation for it. Basically, the Penguin got the blueprints from Max Schreck. As for how Max got them, he simply found which company built the Batmobile and then bribed one of the designers.
85	** An early script had the initial attack on Gotham Plaza a lot more elaborate, with the thugs invading before the tree-lighting ceremony begins and infiltrating Max Shreck's penthouse office, taking Max, Chip, the Mayor, and Selina hostage. Batman has to fight his way up to the penthouse level to save them, in the process leaving the Batmobile behind in an alley - but forgetting to put the shields up on the car. Even more of the Penguin's thugs then approach the exposed automobile and take photographs of it (thus providing an explanation as to how The Penguin got the blueprints to the Batmobile). The novelization indicates the Penguin got the plans from a disgruntled engineer who helped design it.
86	** As for punching through the floor: Batman must have known about the one weak spot or stress point in the floorboards, perhaps caused by damage inflicted in a previous conflict that he may be patched up but never got around to properly fixing...
87	** Are You trying to tell me that Bruce ''didn't'' design and build the Batmobile himself? Even putting aside the obvious security issues (which the movie even points out when Alfred says they can't bring it to the local mechanic), it's not like Bruce ''couldn't'' build a car himself, considering that he's a tech genius and mechanical engineer. The Batcave, I'm still trying to figure out, though...
88	** Presumably Batman, in most of his depictions, has to have conducted business involving contractors for R&D, cave excavators, etc literally wearing his suit for anonymity, rather than through intermediaries who could be traced back to Bruce (or god forbid, as Bruce himself). And he just pays them handsomely, with lucrative and recurring contracts, to help minimize the risk of them selling him out down the line. Maybe part of that "trust" involves transporting them with blindfolds to the location, so they can't tie it to Wayne Manor or anything related to it. And yes, doing a lot of the work himself where he can actually devote the hours of the day to honing such skill sets and not having other matters to attend to.
89	* How did Batman find out about the rocket-armed penguins? The Penguin sends them out, then Alfred tells Batman, "the penguins are converging on Gotham Square," which as far as I can tell is the first either of them even knows about them!
90	** I thought they have a newswire.
91	* Why on Earth does the police open fire on sight at Penguin after his bombed speech? Yes, he lost his temper and shot at the crowd, plenty of reason for an arrest, but since when have police officers tried to shoot a limping man in the back?
92	** [[CrapsackWorld It's Gotham]], and worse, it's [[TruthInTelevision Gotham based on New York.]]
93	** He also did open fire on the crowd, kinda proving armed, dangerous, and definitely now on the run resisting arrest.
94	* After the fight between them after the Ice Princess incident, why does Batman just leave Catwoman where she is instead of trying to get her arrested?
95	** It's hard to focus on things like that when you're in danger of ''yourself'' getting arrested.
96	* Penguin scolds Gotham's elite for leaving their children unprotected. Excuse me? These are people who could well afford a babysitter if not a full-time nanny. The very wealthiest of them may even have a security team. It's very unlikely they'd leave their children completely unprotected.
97	** By this point he's going well off the rails. He likely classes parents who go out and party all the time as emotionally neglectful, whether there's a sitter or not.
98	** Which isn't that incorrect. Parents who can afford a full-time sitter or nanny could very well spend all their time out on the town, spending almost no time with their children, especially in [[CrapsackWorld Tim Burton's Gotham City]].
99	** The point (if any) that the Penguin makes is that they're not there when their children need them. He's just taunting them. He's revealed that their sons are all going to be taken, and now he's rubbing it in to increase their pain and misery.
100	** What makes you think nannies and babysitters would deter the Red Triangle Gang? The Gang members probably just killed any caretakers who tried to stop them from abducting the children.
101	** This point falls into AllThereInTheScript and AdultsAreUseless territory as the shooting script includes a scene of the children of Gotham being rounded up by the Red Triangle Gang and one instance has the Organ Grinder snatch a kid from under the nose of his nanny, who can be heard in the other room oblivious to what is going on.
102	** The Penguin is twisting the knife to make the richer feel extra guilty for abandoning their kids during a time when dangerous lunatics dressed up like clowns are terrorizing the city.
103	** And just for the heck of it, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking he called them bad dancers]] too.
104	* Why did Selina react so histrionically to Max's attempt to murder her? I understand that going through a window and hitting the ground several stories below would be, to say the least, an experience that would leave one badly shaken; and I'm certainly not trying to excuse what Max did. But, really... it's not like Max raped Selina or anything. It wasn't personal. You'd think Selina would just be happy to be alive and confident that she could bring Max to justice. She could have easily shown to the police her cuts from going through the glass, not to mention the bruises on her body she almost certainly sustained when she hit the ground. And she knew about Max's motive for the murder attempt, so she could have told just about anyone and gotten him investigated.
105	** There are a few reasons for this, one of them being that attempted murder is actually pretty horrifying. While it's easy to be desensitized to such things in movies, the average person generally flips out at the realization that there's someone nearby who has the motivation to kill them and isn't afraid to do it, and that coupled with the extreme stress and trauma of being pushed out a window and almost dying is enough to cause histrionics in certain kinds of people. In addition to that, Selina was already established as being a little... off. She stumbles and stutters through her life in a bit of a daze, reacts to everything as if she's suppressing her bitter and unhappy emotions, electrically shocks an unconscious mook for giggles, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and has an apartment smeared with pink and sugary stuffed animals.]] She was already at the breaking point, and this incident is just what drove her over the edge. "Happy to be alive", "confident", and "cooperates with the police" are not phrases in her vocabulary.
106	** For one, she wants justice and the police won't do anything. I see her more as a vigilante than a straight-out bad guy. She also hated Batman for killing her, so she's likely to hate Shreck for the same reasons.
107	** I always just kind of assumed she came back more than a little catshit crazy.
108	** Wait...he tried to kill her and bullied and belittled her during her entire time under his employment and you can't understand why she tried to kill him? Add to the fact that she CLEARLY had a mental breakdown from her near-death experience and years of psychological abuse and likeness that she's been pushed around all her life by men like Shreck.
109	** To say "it's not like Max raped Selina" is a little callous. While rape and attempted murder are two very different crimes that can have varying psychological effects on different victims, it's not a stretch to imagine that the trauma they cause can also be processed similarly. Just as if Max had raped Selina, in the scene he overpowered her both emotionally and physically. He made her feel small and dehumanized her (in a kind of ultimate sense- her life was so insignificant that he had no qualms about ending it.) Worst of all, just as if she had been raped, she has to live with the memory of such a horrifying event forever.
110	** What makes you think the police would automatically take Selina's word for it, much less launch a full investigation of Shreck? Remember that the Mayor introduced him to the crowd at the tree-lighting early in the film as "Gotham's own Santa Claus", and Shreck himself threatens both the Mayor and Bruce Wayne over his power plant plans. Both the Mayor and Wayne should logically have a lot of power and influence in Gotham, and the fact that Shreck is comfortable taking them on shows that ''he'' has just as much influence, if not more so. Shreck could easily call in a few favors and have the investigation quashed... and then push Selina out of a higher window, figuratively speaking.
111	** It has to be said; we've reached a particular level of [[LackOfEmpathy empathy absence]] when we are, in all apparent seriousness, treating the idea of someone reacting "histrionically" to ''their boss literally trying to murder them by throwing them out of a window'' as a plot hole.
112	* When Batman pushed Catwoman off the roof and she landed in kitty litter, how did that count as a death? Didn't the kitty litter break her fall?
113	** The whole idea is that several of Catwoman's 'deaths' don't look so deadly - she seems to have survived through pure luck, leaving us in a "well, is this really supernatural?" state. Then at the end when Shreck shoots her, and she fries them both with the generator, its Creator/TimBurton finally confirms that yes, Catwoman did gain supernatural abilities.
114	** The "in her head" theory doesn't explain her acquiring acrobatic abilities or knowing how to use a whip as an efficient weapon with no training or practice.
115	*** Harley Quinn combined majoring in psychiatry with acrobatic training, why couldn't Selina? In fact, the novelization explicitly explains that her mother pressured her into taking kickboxing classes.
116	** She didn't exactly fall through the pile of kitty litter. See SoftWater or to quote Peter Griffin "Aah! It's not a liquid!"
117	*** And it ''was'' a long drop.
118	* Catwoman still had her whip at the end. She'd used it on gun-toting enemies before, and successfully. So [[BlastingItOutOfTheirHands why didn't she just lash the damn gun out of Max's hand]] rather than letting him shoot her four times? I know she thinks she's semi-immortal, but [[DentedIron that wouldn't mean the bullets wouldn't]] ''[[DentedIron hurt]]''.
119	** Depends on character interpretation, but it's possible that with the only person she loved her enemy an unreachable dream, no future, nothing to work for, and a severely damaged sense of personal identity, Catwoman was intentionally goading him into killing her. Or maybe she wanted to see if she actually ''was'' immortal. She's clearly not stable by this point.
120	* Where the Hell do you get mind-controlling rocket-launching backpacks for your penguin army?
121	** Well, his Red Triangle Gang friends were able to figure out how to hack into the Batmobile using blueprints they supposedly constructed from photographs of said vehicle, at least that's how it was in an earlier script if I'm not wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to create rocket launchers for Penguins. Especially using the money that Oswald probably got during his run for Mayor.
122	* "''And Bruce Wayne, why you dressed up like Batman?!'' " I...I, how could you even... Just why?
123	** On one hand, it seems a little dumb considering what Max had already seen Batman do in the scene before unmasking and how badly Bruce played his rich idiot act around Max earlier, but on the other, it's the Bruce Wayne persona doing its job: He's so air-headed and distracted, people have a hard time registering that he's Batman even when they catch him red-handed.
124	** I always assumed he was intentionally playing dumb in order to try and cause some sort of distraction. Especially in the way, he says "was." If he wasn't, then wow.
125	** Guys, this is obviously [[RuleOfFunny a joke]]; it's a riff on Batman / Bruce Wayne's "Rich Idiot With No Day Job" SecretIdentity. He's apparently so good at it that someone from his social circle can see him literally standing around in his bat costume doing Batman shit and ''not'' put two and two together right away. If we're treating this as a headscratcher then we're kind of scraping the barrel, it has to be said.
126	** Though if we ''must'' have an in-universe answer, to be totally fair to Max he's had a pretty trying few hours / days / weeks, what with the whole repeatedly getting kidnapped by Penguin and then sacrificing himself to protect his son and then getting attacked by Catwoman. He's just not really with it at that particular moment.
127	* How does Penguin not get sued or arrested for biting the guy's nose? You'd think that would hurt his chances of running for mayor.
128	** He did it in Shreck's office, and we already know Shreck is good at hushing shady things up. He probably threatened or bribed everyone in the office.
129	** And they probably can tell the guy's joke hit a sore spot for Penguin.
130	* Okay, so the citizens of Gotham immediately turn against Penguin because of an audio recording? Voice recordings can be manipulated and altered. Yes, we the audience know Penguin is a scumbag, but a voice can be imitated. If you heard an audio recording of a senate saying despicable things, would you believe it?
131	** They heard it right there. And they believed their ears. Gotham practically runs on Mob Mentality.
132	** (Looks at [[UsefulNotes/DonaldTrump who was]] in the White House. Well, this is HarsherInHindsight.
133	** Also falls under AllThereInTheScript as the shooting script had Penguin turn to Max as the crowd was turning against him and confidently suggest they find a way to spin the recording with the help of Josh and Jen at the costume party, but Max isn't having it ("I think you'd feel out of place at my party. You see, it's for winners"). This would also have lent greater weight to Max's later appeal to Penguin to take him in Chip's stead for having betrayed him - as in the film proper all we see is a half-hearted shrug before he scrams.
134	* Why on Earth would the circus people ''stay'' with the Penguin? They should hate him! He cost them their jobs; he makes them live in a freezing, smelly sewer; he sends them out to commit mindless acts of violence that never seem to involve theft or any other profitable crime; and [[BadBoss he hits them or even kills them whenever he gets angry]]. And why would they decide to follow a disfigured young boy in the first place?
135	** Likely fear and/or StockholmSyndrome.
136	** For that matter, did it ever occur to them what was in store for them if Cobblepot had actually been elected mayor? Shreck would have gotten his power plant, and Cobblepot would have access to all the fame and riches and women he could ever want... but what would his gang get out of it? Since the Cobblepot campaign was solely on an anti-crime platform, ''at best'' they'd all be arrested and locked up for years or even decades. Or Cobblepot might even decide to have them executed in a "Night of the Long Knives" reenactment. On the other hand, if they got lucky, Cobblepot would seize dictatorial powers and make them his personal death squad - and, let's be honest, that just wouldn't work. What chance would a band of carny Sandinistas with ''some'' military-grade weapons have against the National Guard? Or the U.S. Army? Or even a U.N. peacekeeping force, if it had to come to that? Unless the Penguin has been running a secret terrorist cell somewhere, his reign of terror would be a very short one.
137	** It's likely they're not all or even mostly his old circus mates. A lot of them are probably street thugs who would be in one gang or another anyway, they just happened to pick the circus-themed one.
138	** They all wore masks during their crime sprees, meaning their real identities were safe. Nothing would stop Mayor Cobblepot from giving them legitimate cushy jobs, in his security or in the police, maybe. At least that was probably their deal with him.
139	* That shady guy Max was whispering to when the Penguin's speech was being sabotaged. He looked really [[TheMafia Mob-y]]. Does Max Shreck have - secretly, of course - underworld connections? If so, why didn't the Cobblepot campaign use ''them'' to create a crime wave throughout the city instead of the Red Triangle Gang? Surely ''someone'' would remember that they'd seen a kid who looked like Oswald in a circus once, and even remember which circus it was. Why give anyone the opportunity to put two and two together?
140	** It may not have even been a mobster, just someone working for Penguin's campaign. Even if it was, organized crime is (usually) a quiet, stealthy game. Max would probably have a hard time convincing his mob connections to do something big, destructive, and public without risking their operations. On the other hand, the Red Triangle gang is by nature loud, senseless, and disruptive, and they were that way even before Penguin had them rioting to stir up controversy for the campaign.
141	* Remember the unmasking scene near the end? Batman's mask seems to be made out of soft rubber if he can tear it off so easily. Isn't he worried some crook will accidentally rip it apart during a fight?
142	** He's a ninja. If some mook can lay hands on Batman long enough to rip off his mask, then losing his mask is the least of his problems.
143	** Considering the blatant continuity error regarding the eyeshadow, they would have cut, taken off the cowl to remove the makeup, then put on a lighter-weight cowl for Keaton to rip off.
144	* Just how can one leather coat make an entire costume for Catwoman?
145	** If it's big enough it'd work. Or she might have had more than one piece of black leather clothing to finish up. With the way it's all cut up and stitched together it'd be impossible to tell.
146	** As well as its size, there were trousers that went with the jacket.
147	*** She also has matching leather boots to go with them.
148	* Why did Catwoman berate the woman she saved for "allowing" herself to get captured? The woman (like any other) was just walking down the street, and, through no fault of her own, was blindsided by a would-be rapist.
149	** Because she's insane, irrational, and projecting her own issues onto others.
150	** She saw the woman as her old self when she was being taken advantage of by everybody and demeaned by Max. I guess her criticism/scolding of the woman would be that she should stand up for herself and not rely on men to bail her out. I mean there’s a reason why Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman became a feminist icon because she was very fierce, believed in independence, and ended the male dominance of Gotham.
151	** Did you mean, not relying on other women to bail her out? Or on men? Or, on men ''or'' women?
152	** I would say both but men are the physically stronger gender in most situations so yes not to rely on men.
153	* Why does Max Shreck wear gloves all the time?
154	** He doesn't like getting his hands dirty. It's a sure sign of a power-motivated villain who likes to have others do the dirty work for him.
155	** Right. Being as, like several other fictional superwealthy villains around this time (the late 80s/early 90s) such as King Koopa in ''Film/SuperMarioBros1993'', he's intended as a satirical TakeThat to Donald Trump, and Trump is known as a NeatFreak... there you go.
156	** It's also winter, and usually we see him either leaving or entering rather than having been inside for a while. His suits are also pretty extravagant and retro (note the spats on his shoes), so the gloves make a nice accessory.
157	* Something that's been bugging me a lot. It's said that Max Shreck was really supposed to be Harvey Dent from the last film and that Catwoman was supposed to scar him into Two-Face. I understand that, but having watched the last film, are we really supposed to believe that Dent was to build a power-sucking power plant, and then push someone out a window for finding that out?
158	** I'd assume the plot was changed somewhat when they changed characters.
159	** Or maybe it was "Big Bad Harv"'s plan. Or it was someone else's plan which he was blackmailed to keep quiet, by threatening to reveal his psychiatric files.
160	** The whole "Max Shreck was originally Harvey Dent" thing is just a rumor anyway. I've yet to see any evidence that it's true.
161	* Shreck telling Selina she's fired at the end seems almost comical for many reasons. Wasn't she pretty much already fired when he pushed her out of the window?
162	** Nope. She showed up for work the next day (where she talked to Bruce Wayne and claimed that she couldn't remember the previous night), and Shreck seemed just a little too disconcerted to try to evict her from the building. He wound up concluding that, if she made trouble for him, he'd just drop her out of a higher window.
163	* Why did Bruce unmask himself in front of Shreck? It's not like a prison will stop him from telling people Bruce's secret. Did Bruce forget he was there?
164	** He wasn't thinking straight. He was trying to reach out to Selina by showing her his face to soften her before she killed Shreck. He seemed to really care about her, and at that moment, pulling a ''Dark Knight Rises'' and quitting Batman to disappear and be with her might have seemed like a viable option. No matter who knows he's Batman, he's rich enough to protect himself, Alfred, and Selina as long as they get out of town.
165	** Also, Shreck can tell anybody he wants, but they may not believe him. We saw with Oswald how fast public opinion can turn, and if the dirt on Shreck gets out, a crazy story about his tense and obstructive business partner Bruce Wayne being Batman and eloping with his secretary (who he claims is Catwoman) could seem like his attempt to use sensationalism to shift media focus from the accusations against him.
166	** But that might not stop Shreck from doing so anyway [[EvilIsPetty out of pettiness]].
167	** Whether people would believe him or not is still up in the air.
168	* So no one has ever noticed that by setting off the Bat-Signal, a second one is activated that shines right into Wayne Manor?
169	** That's an in-manor system he has in place to alert him of the real Bat-Signal.
170	** See the headscratcher all the way above that explains more.
171	* Why didn't people connect the Penguin to the Red Triangle Gang? The Penguin and the Red Triangle Gang are both underground, right?
172	* How exactly did Batman strap a bomb to that guy after punching him multiple times?
173	** If you mean the strongman, Batman only punched him once. And he probably strapped it at the same time.
174	* Why is Batman so averse to the idea of Selina killing Max? This movie's version of Batman has no problem with killing people. Isn't this like extremely hypocritical?
175	** In ''Film/BatmanForever'', he tried to talk Dick Grayson out of killing Two-Face for killing his family because it would only make the "pain grow". Presumably talking from experience, as killing the Joker didn't seem to bring any peace for him. So he's trying to save Selina from living that life. Although he ''did'' strap a bomb on the strongman, assuming it actually killed him or just injured him.
176	* Just where, exactly, is the Batmobile's engine? When it becomes the Batmissile, the wheels retract into where the turbine is supposed to go, and the shields also take up space.
177	* Deformed as he is, Penguin is still human in this, right? But then why does he have black&green blood?

Context Headscratchers / BatmanReturns