| 1 | [[foldercontrol]] |
| 2 | ---- |
| 3 | [[WMG: '''Disney's ''Aladdin''''']] |
| 4 | |
| 5 | [[folder: If Al is so smart...]] |
| 6 | * Since Aladdin is supposedly so clever, why didn't he wish to, say, have all the powers of a genie without any duties that he might consider negative? That doesn't violate any of the rules given. |
| 7 | ** There's a difference between being clever and being a RulesLawyer-ing {{Munchkin}}. One is endearing to the audience, and inspires them to root for him, the other is an annoying git that you want to get a slap in the face. |
| 8 | ** He could also just have wished to become an omnipotent god. Something Jafar should have thought of at the climax of the movie. |
| 9 | ** Aladdin would ''never'' wish for something like that. He's basically a good guy, and good guys don't wish to have NIGH INCOMPREHENSIBLE POWERS or to be a god. |
| 10 | ** But then again, why didn't someone as clever as Aladdin consider the possibility that Jafar would wish to have "all the powers of a genie" instead? It was pretty damn lucky that at the moment, Jafar was holding the same ball. |
| 11 | *** While it doesn't make sense why Jafar didn't TRY it wouldn't surprise me at all if Genie cannot make a being more powerful than himself. Just being freed severely weakens Genies and in many of the myths freeing the Genie requires you to take its place. |
| 12 | ** The first question - Aladdin's simply not that type of guy. All he wants is for Jasmine to love him, and maybe possibly a good roof over his head. The second question is also a potential double whammy - even if Jafar doesn't wish to become a genie, he's still used up his third wish and therefore can't use the lamp any more. Aladdin's main goal is to get him to use the last wish and therefore free the genie from having to take orders from him. Once Jafar has no power over the genie, Aladdin can use his third wish to undo all of Jafar's wishes. Or else Jasmine could take control of the lamp and use her wishes to undo everything and take care of Jafar. |
| 13 | ** In the remake, Jafar ''does'' circumvent Aladdin's attempt to turn him into a genie, by wishing to become the "most powerful being" in the universe, without specifying what kind of being. His problem is that the remake also makes Genie more in tune with the idea of being a JackassGenie, so he just interprets the wish in the worst way possible and turns him into one anyway. |
| 14 | [[/folder]] |
| 15 | [[folder: Only three rules?]] |
| 16 | * So Genie tells Aladdin that he can wish for anything but three things; He can't wish for someone to get killed, fall in love with anyone else, or come back to life. Genie says [[WishingForMoreWishes wishing for more wishes]] is off limits too, so wouldn't that be four things Aladdin can't wish for? |
| 17 | ** To prove the point further in the oldest possible stories with a genie they could grant as many wishes they could. |
| 18 | ** I see it as sort of being like the distinction between laws of nature and actual legal laws, in a sense. The Genie was relaying the rules that ''Aladdin'' had to follow -- it's implied that killing, inducing love, and revival from death are all things the Genie ''can do'', but is forbidden from doing as a condition of his servitude. Whereas giving his master more wishes is something the Genie is literally incapable of doing even if he wanted to, so the limitation there is on the Genie, not on Aladdin. |
| 19 | ** The remake seems to do away with the "no killing" rule and instead includes the one about WishingForMoreWishes in Genie's explanation. |
| 20 | ** If you actually watch the scene, Genie never says that there are ''only'' three rules for wishing. He only lists three rules at that moment, yes -- but he had already ''very specifically and very thoroughly'' told Aladdin that he only got three wishes, ''long'' before he goes into details about the limitations. It was one of the first things he said: "''Three'' wishes to be exact, and ''ix-nay'' on the wishing for more wishes. ''Three!'' Uno, Dos, Tres! No substitutions, extanges or refunds!" So clearly he saw no need to repeat that rule, since Aladdin already knew it. |
| 21 | *** Not only that, but he lectures Aladdin about the three rules after Aladdin says "You're gonna grant me any three wishes I want, right?" Especially since he was already told he couldn't wish for more, it would've been redundant for Genie to list off the three rules and then say, "Oh, yeah, and you also can't wish for more wishes. So you only get three. You know, like you just acknowledged, in your question. That you just asked me." |
| 22 | [[/folder]] |
| 23 | [[folder: Razoul is okay with Jafar's plan?]] |
| 24 | * Why did Razoul go along with Jafar's attempt to get rid of Prince Ali? Even if he did somehow recognize Al he still would have basically went behind the Sultan and Jasmine's back in order to kill off a important guest who is also the guy currently in line to be Jasmine's husband. I'm amazed nobody got on Razoul's case about it. |
| 25 | ** I think Jafar, being the Grand Vizier, was tasked with handling justice in the kingdom. The guards were answering directly to Jafar. In the Marketplace scene where the guards arrest Aladdin, Jasmine demands they let her go but apparently Jafar's orders override even the commands of royalty. Jafar would just have to make something up and the guards would never even consider the Sultan's thoughts on the matter. |
| 26 | *** As the Grand Vizier, the only person who could override his orders was the Sultan himself. The guards would obey his orders without question as the will of the Sultan. |
| 27 | *** Yep. Razoul directly states this in the movie. |
| 28 | ** It's also worth noting that Razoul doesn't like Aladdin, even in the TV series, Return of Jafar and King of Thieves this trait seems to emerge, he jumps at every opportunity to get Aladdin out of the palace, into the dungeon, or better yet onto a guillotine. He tolerates Aladdin, and works with him because he knows Aladdin is a good guy, but he's never liked and likely never will like him. |
| 29 | *** Actually, at the end of King of Thieves, when Razoul catches the bouquet, it's implied that he's warming up to him |
| 30 | *** Well, in a few years, when the Sultan dies, Aladdin will become Sultan. It's kinda stupid to maintain a grudge against him when Aladdin could then have him imprisoned, mutilated, or executed with no repercussions. |
| 31 | *** About the bouquet scene, there's a case of FridgeBrilliance. In one episode of the TV series, Aladdin asks if Razoul will ever call him "Your Highness" and Razoul tells him to get rid of Iago. By the time the wedding takes place, Iago left with Aladdin's Dad. |
| 32 | [[/folder]] |
| 33 | [[folder: Lamp in his turban]] |
| 34 | * Wouldn't it be kind of uncomfortable to be soaring around on a romantic magic carpet ride with a metal lamp bouncing around in your hat? |
| 35 | ** Yes. The guy's homeless, I'm sure some slight discomfort wouldn't bother him much. |
| 36 | *** It probably isn't nearly as uncomfortable as riding on a magic carpet while sporting a raging woody. |
| 37 | ** And the turban is really spacious. |
| 38 | ** Turbans, which use about ten feet of cloth, properly wrapped are very firm. |
| 39 | *** Except it's not a turban. It's some sort of poofy hat. |
| 40 | ** Also, MAGIC! |
| 41 | ** To be fair, the whole sequence is pretty fantastic (in both senses of the word). To fly at the altitudes they did at the speeds they did without an oxygen mask/pressurized cabin would cause serious physical damage, so BellisariosMaxim is in effect. |
| 42 | ** The Genie could easily fix that by making the lamp hover a quarter-inch above Aladdin's head so it doesn't actually touch him. |
| 43 | ** The Lamp is in there really snug. When All takes his hat off to shoo away Rajah, and when Jasmine removes after tricking Al into mentioning Abu, the lamp doesn't fall out. |
| 44 | [[/folder]] |
| 45 | [[folder: Ali's "secret" identity]] |
| 46 | * How come it took so long for Jasmine, Razoul, and Jafar to find out Ali's true identity? It's not like Aladdin bothered to disguise his face. |
| 47 | ** [[ClarkKenting Neither do]] [[Franchise/SailorMoon the Sailor Senshi]] or {{Franchise/Superman}}. |
| 48 | *** Jasmine knew who he was immediately, but he claimed that his "street rat" persona was just something he did to amuse himself (seeing how the other half live and all that). Jafar also knew who he was, but realized he must have the genie and was unwilling to openly act against him. He eventually gets hold of the lamp through scheming. If Razoul ever got close enough to positively identify him, he still would have been unable to do anything without insulting an important guest (and Al would probably have humiliated him). |
| 49 | *** Razoul probably chases down 2 or 3 "street rats" on a slow day, even if he did get a good look at Al on the street it is not implausible that he simply does not remember exactly what street rat #558 looks like when he is not dressed in peasant clothes. |
| 50 | *** Did Razoul ever even ''meet'' Aladdin? When Jasmine ran away, she didn't take her tiger with her. |
| 51 | *** Razoul is the guard. ''Rajah'' is the tiger. |
| 52 | *** No, Jafar saw "Prince Ali" as a rival: after he failed to get the lamp, he changed gears and schemed to marry Jasmine so that he'd become Sultan by succession. He didn't realize that the "Prince" was Aladdin until he spotted the lamp. |
| 53 | ** Jasmine immediately thought he was familiar when he showed up on her balcony. But she also found it astronomically unlikely that the street rat, who was supposedly dead, would suddenly come back from the dead as a prince. Plus, she only knew him for a couple of hours at most. Which is not enough time to memorize all facial details. However, she did figure out who he was when he said "Do you trust me?" but played dumb because she was curious what his game was. |
| 54 | ** I sorta operate under the "Aladdin was pretty dirty (although it didn't show) and the prince transformation includes a bath" theory. Besides, Jafar only looked at him at night, and why would this guy want to pay attention to some nobody who only exists to be a pawn for him? |
| 55 | *** Because in the world of movies, typically they don't see through a disguise, no matter how obvious. Especially Disney films |
| 56 | ** Nobody knew that "Prince Ali" had the lamp, and both Jafar and Jasmine thought that Aladdin was dead at the point, so neither of them would have been inclined to recognize him beyond possibly "he looks vaguely like that street rat guy." Aladdin for his part was deliberately trying to act like a completely different person, which would have made recognition harder. Jasmine starts off by thinking that "Ali" is a pompous fool, but then when she sees him without his hat she begins getting suspicious... and when he begins acting like Aladdin and asks "do you trust me?" she smiles like she just had her suspicions confirmed. Jafar, on the other hand, doesn't suspect that Aladdin survived the trip to the Cave of Wonders until he finds out about the lamp... and then he immediately puts two and two together. |
| 57 | ** The remake adds in an explanation that the Genie's magic alters the perceptions of people looking at it -- "they see what they want to see." Jafar does seem to marginally recognize Aladdin from the get-go. |
| 58 | ** And how long did Jasmine actually spend with 'Ali' beforehand? She saw him riding in the parade and overheard him bragging that he would win her - both times where he was putting on the persona of a pompous noble. The next time she sees him is when he flies up to her balcony, and that's really the first time she saw him up close - so she did get a little suspicious once she talked to him. |
| 59 | ** Perhaps genie magic prevented anyone from recognizing "Ali" as Aladdin. This is why Razoul never made the connection and Jafar only realized who "Ali" was when he spotted the lamp. But... am I forgetting someone? After all, Jasmine pretty much made Aladdin the moment she caught one good look of him without his turban. Well... remember how the genie told Aladdin that he can't make anyone fall in love? In other words, he has no power over love. And thus, [[FridgeBrilliance someone who was in love with Aladdin was able to see through the spell]]. |
| 60 | [[/folder]] |
| 61 | [[folder: What a waste of a good wish]] |
| 62 | * Why didn't Jafar wish he was the most powerful Sorcerer first, then taken over the Kingdom using his vast power? That way he would have 2 wishes to spare. |
| 63 | ** Because his first wish followed what he originally believed in. He thought that status alone grants a person power over others, which is why he wanted to be Sultan so badly. However, once he realized that his status meant nothing to Jasmine, he decided to gain power the old-fashioned way: through fear and brute force. |
| 64 | ** We don't see anybody but the main cast at this point but it raises the question of what exactly did Jafar get with his first wish? Being Sultan does give you power over people but as far as the audience is shown Jafar's wish results in his clothes changing color but no actual benefits. |
| 65 | ** He specifically says it's to "rule on high as Sultan" - and the genie took the palace and placed it on the mountains. Perhaps the wish warped the minds of everyone else and made them think Jafar was Sultan - though for some reason Jasmine and her father were immune. |
| 66 | ** The remake plays up his belief that status equates to authority; he manages to use his new position as sultan to bring the guards over to his side, as their captain considers himself bound to the law; it's not until Jasmine talks the captain into doing what's right and protecting the people that actual power becomes necessary on Jafar's part. |
| 67 | [[/folder]] |
| 68 | [[folder: Holes in Jafar's plan]] |
| 69 | * When Aladdin met Jafar when he was disguised as a old man in the dungeon and Jafar said he'd show him the way out why didn't Aladdin ask "Um if you always knew the way out old man, why the hell are you still in this dungeon??" |
| 70 | ** Because he needs "a pair of strong legs and a strong back" to go after his treasure. |
| 71 | ** But then why wasn't he suspicious when said old man whipped out a handful of RUBIES? |
| 72 | *** Because it's easy to draw the conclusion that the "strong legs and strong back" would be needed in order to ''carry'' the treasure. Far as Aladdin knew at the point, the old man had found the treasure, found he couldn't carry it, and just grabbed a few rubies to show to someone who could help him carry the treasure. |
| 73 | ** So why did he come back to the dungeon instead of hiring some random guy off the street? |
| 74 | *** Maybe Jafar doesn't want to spend cash when he can work an elaborate prison con. Loyal henchmen are sometimes more valuable than mercenaries and freedom=loyalty. Also, Jafar had seen in his crystal ball that Aladdin was the one he needed. |
| 75 | *** From Aladdin's perspective, the "old guy" might have simply gotten arrested on his way back after grabbing the rubies, before he had the chance to hire some random guy off the street. |
| 76 | ** Aladdin probably just thought "Screw it, whatever this guy wants is probably better than being killed/imprisoned for life/whatever." |
| 77 | *** Yes. Aladdin was imprisoned and could not get out on his own. If this guy knows how to get out, why not go along with his plan? You don't exactly earn people's trust such that they'll bring you along on their escape from prison if you show them nothing but mistrust. If he questioned the old man, the old man could easily say "Well screw you, then. I'm not gonna let you come with me, now." |
| 78 | *** Aladdin living in the streets his entire life knows about conning e.g. "sadly yes, she is my sister." Being the honest thief he wouldn't turn down the opportunity for money, and is probably street smart to follow a lead. Having a new royal love interest cinches the deal. |
| 79 | [[/folder]] |
| 80 | [[folder: Villain Song]] |
| 81 | * How come it took until the sequel for Jafar to get his own full VillainSong? "Prince Ali Reprise" doesn't count. |
| 82 | ** Two songs were recorded ''Humiliate The Boy'' and ''Why Me'' both were rejected for being allegedly to evil. You can see them both on [[Website/YouTube the DVD]] |
| 83 | ** TOO EVIL? That's pretty idiotic if true. |
| 84 | ** [[Main/ButNotTooEvil Sad but true]]. I don't see any reason why the song known as "Prince Ali Reprise" can't count though. It doesn't seem like a reprise, does it? Except for the repetitions of "Prince Ali" and the rhythm. |
| 85 | ** Have you guys even heard ''Humiliate The Boy''? It would really have cut down on the climax of the movie if they put the song in the final cut of the movie. Not to mention the whole entire song doesn't really make sense considering how Genie can only grant 3 wishes, and yet Jafar seemed to be able to get a crap load of wishes in order to screw with Aladdin in the song. |
| 86 | *** ''Humiliate The Boy'' was cut early in production, before a limit to the wishes was added. Hell, considering how early it was cut, it was probably cut before Aladdin was aged from his original TWELVE to about 18 like he is in the final cut. (Of course, his aging was late - you can still see his boyish self in the final version of ''Friends Like Me''... and now I'm rambling) --Tustin2121 |
| 87 | ** ''Humiliate The Boy'' and ''Why Me?'' were rejected for being too long. Not for being too cruel or evil. |
| 88 | ** There were other songs made for Jafar. ''My Time Has Come'' where Jafar recounts how hideous his life has been and how he is going to make everyone else miserable (It was axed due to being too slow and introspective). And ''My Finest Hour'' where Jafar pulls the earth into a ball and bats it around with the Genie (Cut because the directors felt it was too late in the movie for an extended showstopper for the villain). |
| 89 | *** ...[[FridgeLogic Isn't the world already ball-shaped?]] |
| 90 | *** Yes, but not baseball-sized. |
| 91 | ** A bit off topic, but "Why Me?" was included in MTI's "Disney's Aladdin Junior", a play adaptation of the film. |
| 92 | ** Well look at the {{Villain Song}}s that preceded this film. Ursula's "Pour Unfortunate Souls" is her tricking Ariel into making the deal, while "Gaston" establishes that the entire village fawns over Gaston. Jafar doesn't need a song to establish his motivations - since it's clear from the start that he wants to become Sultan, or accomplish anything. So the reprise of "Prince Ali" is to give him some evil gloating. Up until then he didn't need a song to tell us what we already knew. |
| 93 | [[/folder]] |
| 94 | [[folder: In the video games]] |
| 95 | * How come both the SNES and Genesis Aladdin games have Aladdin getting sucked into Genie's Lamp as a way to cover the "Never had a friend like me" scene? |
| 96 | ** I can think of at least two possibilities. [[EarlyDraftTieIn One, they meant to do that in the movie and changed their minds during production.]] Considering when the games were released relative to the movie, it's not implausible that the movie wasn't complete yet when the games were being made. Two, they did it simply because it would be [[Main/RuleOfCool cool]], which it definitely was. |
| 97 | [[/folder]] |
| 98 | [[folder: Questioning Aladdin further]] |
| 99 | * When Jasmine figured out that Prince Ali was Aladdin, why didn't she wonder why he wasn't dead? Jafar told her that he had executed Aladdin. |
| 100 | ** Possibly she was wondering about the more important things, like why he has a flying carpet and ''is now a prince''? |
| 101 | ** Still, supposedly ''being dead'' and not turning out to be is a pretty big deal. Especially when you think she would realize Jafar's treachery after a few seconds. |
| 102 | ** I always wondered about that, too. I'm guessing she assumed a lot: Jafar said he was dead, but he's obviously ''not'' dead, so that part's fine. If she actually cared more about it all making sense, she might've wondered how he got out of being beheaded. "Well," she might've thought, "the guards recognized ''me'' after I revealed myself, maybe he was able to prove his identity, too. And maybe Jafar just didn't know the guards hadn't killed him." Of course, Jasmine was too busy being butt-crazy in love to do anything but accept Aladdin's BS. |
| 103 | ** I always thought that Jasmine still thought that Jafar wasn't a totally bad man. Maybe she assumed he agreed to cover up the Prince being in disguise by "Doing away with him". |
| 104 | ** She probably didn't want to spoil the moment, presumed (correctly) that Jafar lied to her for whatever reason, and decided to put away the investigation until later. If Jafar didn't press the matter by hypnotizing Sultan, she would've probably confronted him about his lie. |
| 105 | ** Well, Jafar was revealed to be a traitor about two seconds after Aladdin admitted who he was, so that doesn't give Jasmine a lot of time to think it over. Besides, it seems she was always suspicious of Jafar anyway, so the idea of him being up to no good wouldn't really have been news to her. Maybe she was planning to question Jafar about it in the morning. |
| 106 | ** They had an entire magic carpet ride back to Agrabah after she found out he was for them to converse. She probably questioned him about it on the return trip, and he told her he bribed his way out of the execution and left Agrabah quickly to avoid further prosecution. |
| 107 | ** Jasmine went from feeling sadness that this friend who helped her out and was kind to her had been killed, and guilt that it was because he was suspected of kidnapping her - to feeling relief and joy that he was alive, and also a euphoria that comes with falling in love. She was also probably a little thankful that she'd found someone that she wouldn't mind marrying, and therefore could keep her father happy too. In that whirlwind of positive emotions, she didn't think about the implications that Jafar must have lied about the death. |
| 108 | [[/folder]] |
| 109 | [[folder: Technicalities of first wish]] |
| 110 | * There shouldn't really have been angst about Aladdin's "final wish" at the end, since in actuality the Genie never granted his ''first'' wish! Aladdin's wish was "Genie, make me a prince!" Result: Genie tricks people into ''thinking'' Aladdin is a prince. Even a LiteralGenie would presumably have arranged for Aladdin to be adopted legitimately as the heir to some kingdom (or less benevolently, simply created ''another'' prince, in a reversal of the "make me a sandwich" gag.) Al got rooked. |
| 111 | ** Refutatio: Since Aladdin gets officially exposed by Jafar magically (and musically) stripping him of his raiment, one could theorize the Genie ''did'' somehow make him a legitimate prince, until Jafar forcibly broke that spell. But that theory seems to conflict with Jafar's climactic third wish, which establishes that genie magic trumps even the world's most powerful sorcerer (especially, one would think, in terms of abstract reality manipulation). |
| 112 | *** Jafar changing Aladdin's clothes doesn't mean Jafar actually deprinceinated him. |
| 113 | *** The only evidence in the movie that genie magic trumps sorcerer magic is Aladdin's word, and he's trying to trick Jafar into impulsively [[HoistByHisOwnPetard imprisoning himself]]. |
| 114 | ** Additional Refutatio: Since the second Direct-To-Video sequel reveals that Aladdin's father is Ali Baba, the King of Thieves, that means that Aladdin is technically a prince. Specifically, the prince of thieves. |
| 115 | *** Actually, his father was Kaseem, not Ali Baba (who, despite misconception, wasn't the leader of the Forty Thieves), though in the stories Kaseem is the name of Ali Baba's brother (who is killed by the thieves) |
| 116 | *** No, Ali Baba wasn't the "King of thieves", in the story "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves", all of them were actually ''against'' him. (Or at least the version I read...which sort of had Ali Baba's maid-daughter kill all but one of them with Olive oil) |
| 117 | *** Yes, that's how it happens in the original story (well, the version I read had the girl be his slave, which he set free and made his daughter-in-law after she killed the thieves and their leader, respectively). In the direct-to-video sequel, though, Ali Baba doesn't appear. Kaseem appears as the king of thieves and Aladdin's father. |
| 118 | *** What does being the 'King of Thieves' even mean? Does the King of Thieves typically have a genealogical heir we could call a 'Prince'? Doubtful. It seems in all ways to be much more of a nickname, the title given to the most respected thief around. Also, if this is the manner in which the genie granted his wish, why didn't Genie say so? Was genie unaware of how the wish was granted? Also, if this is the case, why the whole "Prince Ali of Ababwa" thing? What the hell is that all about if it has nothing to do with how Aladdin was actually a prince? |
| 119 | *** The King of Thieves is simply the leader of the 40 thieves and presumably one needs to earn that position. Being Kaseem's son gave Aladdin the right to "challenge" for a position as one of the 40 but it doesn't make him royalty or even give him automatic dibs on being the next leader. |
| 120 | *** Additional Refutatio #2: Then that means that Genie's first wish actually made Aladdin into something he already was, ''meaning'', the wish wasn't technically granted (because you can't give something to someone who already has it.) Therefore Genie ''still'' owes Aladdin his first wish! |
| 121 | *** Now now, can you find any evidence in the films that establishes Aladdin as the Prince of Thieves before he makes the wish? Genie really did grant the wish, [[Main/RetCon altering history in the process.]] |
| 122 | *** In the official comic, Genie explains that sorcerer magic and genie magic can do different things. For example, sorcerer magic can actually negate a wish when Genie magic can't; even though it can do everything else. Jafar really wasn't thinking that far ahead when he wished to be a genie, especially with the Lamp limitation. |
| 123 | *** Um, even in the Arabian Nights, a prince was an heir to huge tracks of land (and all that occupies it.) Sometimes ruling over a portion (called a ''principality''). Jafar notes this by querying what domain does Abooboo govern. Aladdin doesn't know, and tries to bluff, but this is not to say the territory doesn't exist. |
| 124 | *** In fact, the fact that he didn't tell Jafar doesn't even mean he didn't know. It's quite possible that Genie warned him that Jafar had political connections in that place, and could have staged a coup against Abooboo. |
| 125 | *** Oh come on guys. Ababuah. Abobwah? Naybob? |
| 126 | *** Even in the real world, "being a prince," or any nobility, is as much about people ''believing'' you're nobility than actually having political, bureaucratic control over so many acres of land. The Genie really does give Aladdin everything he needs to be a prince, including a shot at marrying into the Princess's family. |
| 127 | ** The genie was in the process of making Aladdin a genuine prince... by arranging for his marriage to ''Princess'' Jasmine. Jafar interrupted this process when he exposed Aladdin for what he truly was. However, the genie can still claim to have made a good-faith effort to grant wish #1 before his magic was dispelled, and so, Aladdin's still down a wish. |
| 128 | *** Since they backed away from the LiteralGenie ploy (which is, incidentally, typically of the actual 1001 nights), the Genie knew Aladdin needed to be a prince (i.e. landed) in order to legally marry Princess Jasmine. Hence the wish would only be granted if Aladdin qualified as a prince before the marriage. |
| 129 | *** A "good faith effort"? When did Genie say, "I'll make a good faith effort to grant your wishes?" He very clearly states, in song no less, you get three wishes. What you wish for will come true. Not "I'll try," but will happen. |
| 130 | ** Well, if no one accepts what I assumed, that the wish to make Aladdin a prince was fully granted with a purely superficial display of genie magic -- his ability to create gold, clothing, servants, etc., and if need be, some lame "proof" of his identity -- then how about this: If Genie really wanted to go to the trouble of making Aladdin a real prince, he could've fudged reality and memories somewhere and made Aladdin the son of a real king ala Buffyverse: Angel has Wolfram & Hart make his son Connor a member of the Reilly family by changing everyone's memories. Sidira (sp?) did it in an episode of the television show when she changed places with Jasmine while still remaining Sidira. She looked and sounded like herself, and "everyone" knew her as Sidira. Also, if Jafar's magic could turn Abu back into a monkey, it might've been able to turn Aladdin back into whatever he was before the wish, if not, Aladdin is still the missing prince of wherever-the-hell. Ta-dah. Also, there might've already been a Prince Ali and Genie could've just committed identity theft and told Aladdin the guy's social security number, but that would be EVIL! |
| 131 | ** If Genie didn't make Aladdin a prince, where'd that big parade come from in the song "Prince Ali"? |
| 132 | *** Going by the cut song "Humiliate the Boy" the servants, animals, etc. were all made from things like rats, insects, etc. Hell if we discount it due to said explanation being from a cut song then there's the fact that Genie has shown he's capable of ''making life out of nothing''. |
| 133 | *** Um, no. The instant the musical number is over and Jafar slams the big door, all that stuff is gone, never to be seen again. The people and animals were just elaborate puppets, controlled by Genie. I daresay the only thing in the entire parade that was not an intricate illusion was the gold and jewels that were given to the people. And that would easy enough to carry out from the Cave of Wonders. |
| 134 | *** If they had gone with the explanation of the cut song, it would have meant that Genie's magic worked a lot like that of Cinderella's fairy godmother. In a way, it made [[FridgeBrilliance perfect sense]]. |
| 135 | ** Maybe he did. Perhaps there's a kingdom out there somewhere that's sitting around going, "Where the fuck is Ali? He's been gone for AGES!" |
| 136 | ** Maybe, when Aladdin made the wish, a secondary effect(Or primary) was to make Aladdin's father a King. He became the King of Thieves. |
| 137 | ** Somewhere, in a far-off land, a childless king and queen suddenly have artificial memories of their beloved son Ali, who they've sent to Agrabah to court a princess. |
| 138 | ** While I was in class the other day, one thing my professor told us is that the requirement for one to preside over a kingdom is not so much land as it is ''subjects''. For the first wish, the Genie created an entire parade of people who accept and revere Aladdin as their princely ruler; whether he has a physical land he rules over or not isn't really relevant. So in order for Al to be considered a prince again after Jafar undoes his wish, he'd need to use his last wish in order to bring back all the people and the money that was taken away from him. |
| 139 | |
| 140 | * I think if Aladdin's Prince Counterpart was the Prince of an actual country somewhere-I highly doubt he would be the first son (or even the second) but further down the line and you know that you would never inherit your father's throne because of one (or more) people being int he way (ie: Prince Hans) so the only way to rule is to marry a Princess from another land whose daddy needs an heir and he doesn't have any legal ones. (Once the Sultan's dead, Aladdin will become Sultan) |
| 141 | |
| 142 | [[/folder]] |
| 143 | [[folder: Technicalities of second wish]] |
| 144 | * Aladdin tricks the genie into granting him a wish that doesn't count (getting out of the cave). But when he's drowning, the genie has to use his official second wish to save his life...even though Aladdin's unconscious at the time, and doesn't say "I wish." So why did the second wish count when the "prologue" wish didn't? And why couldn't the genie just save him rather than wasting a wish, since he can do a lot of magic outside of wish granting? |
| 145 | ** Genies are not allowed to do anything notable for their master without their master wishing for it directly and this counts as a wish. However, the Genie is allowed to make a reasonable assumption if the situation is extreme (such as their master being unconscious and seconds away from dying). The cave situation wasn't sufficiently extreme to "assume" a wish, as Aladdin was both conscious and not in immediate danger. Therefore it didn't count, unlike the drowning situation, and Genie accepts that he was tricked. All magic Genie does that is not part of a wish, is presenting the rules and possibilities of the wishes, and turning into various things for fun and friendly dating advice. |
| 146 | ** Because when he said "No more Freebies, he possibly bound himself with it, that anything he does for Aladdin has to be taken in the context of a wish (i.e. part of a previous wish, or a new wish, or nothing. Thus, he even had to effectively trick Aladdin and ''himself'' into accepting the second wish by putting him in a position that his drooping head could be interpreted as a nod. |
| 147 | ** I think it was because Genie couldn't ''knowingly'' cheat the system. If he could, everyone could get infinite wishes and Genie could've even been freed by the first guy who got tired of the lamp. I'm sure the dude who sentenced him to the lamp/created him/set the rules would've thought of that. Just three wishes and no freebies means that no one (except Aladdin) would've set him free if all they got was three wishes. Also, handy for the rest of the mythical world, the pagan gods, and, of course, the writers if a character with the power to control the universe is a slave to very constricting rules. |
| 148 | *** Going by Islamic mythology, the dude who sentenced him would be king Solomon, who was supposedly one of the wisest men in history, so I think it's safe to say that he could have covered those loopholes. |
| 149 | *** But wouldn't Genie's little... embellishments during the Prince Ali number have counted as knowing freebies? One was presumably, like the drowning one, to save Aladdin's life (he just had ten guys fall on him and needed to lift them off), and the other was purely cosmetic and unnecessary (temporarily enlarging his pecs while the dancing girls were watching); for some reason, neither of them counted. |
| 150 | *** I always assumed that those embellishments were covered by the "Make me a prince" wish. A truly impressive prince might have large pecs, so the genie gets to experiment with that and it's all part of the same wish. |
| 151 | ** Allow me to muddy the clarity of this IJBM a bit: Genies can't kill, as evidenced by Aladdin 2. So, the moment Genie was 'summoned' by Al rubbing the lamp underwater if Genie hadn't assumed Al wanted to wish for his safety, Genie would have left Al to drown, effectively killing him. But, Genies can't kill, so, he'd have been forced to save Aladdin... So, are Genies 3-Laws compliant? |
| 152 | *** 1. A genie may not [[strike: injure]]'' murder'' a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to [[strike: come to harm]]'' be killed''. |
| 153 | *** 2. A genie must obey any '''three''' orders given to it by [[strike: human beings]]''' its master''', except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. |
| 154 | *** 3. A genie must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. |
| 155 | *** They are now. |
| 156 | *** Granted these laws are purely theoretical, but this would conflict with the first Kingdom Hearts game in which Jafar orders Genie to attack Sora and co and the Genie obeys. Even if he drops HP orbs after attacking, he's still harming them. |
| 157 | *** Nowhere in the canon does it say "a genie can't harm a person", or even that a genie cannot, through inaction, let a person die. All it says is that a genie can't ''kill'' someone. If you count sequels as part of the canon, it even explicitly says in ''Return of Jafar'' that a genie can ''harm'' someone, or arrange for someone to die as an indirect result of their actions, just that they can't directly kill. But even if you discount the sequel, it still never says ''anything'' about the ability of a genie to "harm". |
| 158 | *** So, then, Genie saving Al by 'wishing' for him, doesn't count as a wish? |
| 159 | *** |
| 160 | *** '''Edits in bold have been made for proper genie compliance with the laws.''' |
| 161 | *** ''Edits in italics have been made for proper Genie's Three Rules compliance with the laws.'' Using the implication that Aladdin could have drowned despite the Genie's presence or frozen to death as an indirect result of Jafar's wish being granted, and the arguable canon fact that Abys Mal could have died as a ''technically'' indirect result of his first wish, the second half of the first law must not apply to genies. Therefore, overwhelming odds exist in favor of Genies being compliant with the [[Literature/LittleLostRobot Nestor 10]] edit of the First Law ("A robot [genie] may not harm [murder] a human being"), as well as the second two (edited for genie-compliance) laws. I submit as a name for these laws, "[[ThreeLawsCompliant The Three Laws of Djinnetics]]". |
| 162 | *** If genies were required to allow no person to come to harm even by inaction, then no one anywhere would die or come to harm at any time, because of how immensely powerful genies are. Directness has to be a part of it. |
| 163 | ** Under the rules that the Genie lives by, he can only use his abilities to grant three wishes per person. He's already technically broken those rules once, when he helped Aladdin escape from the cave, despite Aladdin not actually wishing for it, but that wasn't an intentional violation; it can be considered a mistake on Genie's part, a misunderstanding of what Aladdin actually said. As he said after that incident, he can't give Aladdin any more freebies; while he can stretch the rules a bit, he can't consciously break them again by using his power on another non-wish, even to save a life. The genie's taking Aladdin's unconscious "nod" as affirmation that he agrees to use his second wish to be rescued from drowning. In short, by the rules that govern the Genie's existence, even though Aladdin didn't actually say it, it has to count as one of his wishes. |
| 164 | [[/folder]] |
| 165 | [[folder: Screw the rules, the Sultan makes them!]] |
| 166 | * If the Sultan was having so much trouble finding a prince that Jasmine would marry at the required deadline of the marriage law, why didn't he just ''change the law'' like he did at the end? Wouldn't it be easier to just change the deadline date, or the requirements, or really anything that would have not put him in such a damn easy position to be manipulated by Jafar? |
| 167 | ** Character development. At the beginning of the film, the Sultan is too weak-willed to challenge tradition and ancient law, just as he can't challenge Jafar's control. It takes inspiration from the young hero, and sees with unclouded eyes the truth of his daughter's life, for him to grow a spine. |
| 168 | ** The Sultan said himself in the beginning that it's not just about the law, he wanted to make sure Jasmine had someone by her side and was able to take care of her when he eventually dies., he just stressed the law in order to motivate Jasmine to marry. Once she and Aladdin got together he no longer had to worry about it and thus the law didn't matter anymore(also why it took 2 more movies for them to marry) |
| 169 | ** And Sultan's character flaw is that he's too preoccupied with tradition. He can't understand why Jasmine doesn't just do as he asks - assuming that if she marries someone then she'll maybe grow to love him in time (as we could assume happened with himself and her mother). He just can't see the problem - and ultimately royal daughters were always used to secure alliances with other kingdoms. However, once he sees his daughter happy, he just can't bear the thought of taking that away from her - and thus is compelled to change the law. And for what it's worth, the sequels and TV series do show Aladdin getting some kind of instruction on how to run a kingdom. |
| 170 | [[/folder]] |
| 171 | [[folder: Pointless Cave of Wonders]] |
| 172 | * What's the deal with the Cave of Wonders? Why is there a humongous treasure in it if the only thing someone can touch safely in it is the lamp? Who put it and the lamp in the cave? And why does it seem at least semi-sentient? |
| 173 | *** There's a lamp in the middle of a cave. A tiger-god thing tells you that this is the only thing that matters. Will you stick to that? |
| 174 | ** So, why is it that the first dude Jafar sent into the Cave was killed upon crossing the threshold instead of being allowed to wander around to test his mettle? The cave makes it very clear that it won't let ''anyone'' except the chosen guy in (and that it can tell who that guy is on sight), so having the treasure there as a "test" of that person's worthiness seems rather redundant. |
| 175 | *** The cave could detect the 'diamond in the rough' as being essentially good-hearted and worthy of a shot at the lamp, possibly the treasure was to insure that that worthiness wouldn't evaporate when faced with direct temptation. |
| 176 | *** Or it could just be to prevent unworthy dudes from manipulating the worthy dude to let them in. After all, the cave didn't eat Abu. Jafar could probably have gone in as well if he had wanted. |
| 177 | *** Still doesn't explain why the dude Jafar initially sends in was chomped up automatically after setting foot across the cave's threshold. The cave made it very clear that it only allowed the "Diamond in the Rough" to enter, and Jafar had to specifically get Sultan's ring to find the exact dude who fit that profile, which just happened to be Aladdin and ''only'' Aladdin. If it was just some good-hearted but impoverished street rat, then Jafar couldn't have narrowed it down to one so quickly. Obviously, the "Diamond in the Rough" was one person and one person ''only'', and ''only'' he could even enter the cave without being eaten by the sentient tiger golem thing. So, again, why have a huge treasure there that the "Diamond in the Rough" cannot touch or be doomed to tiger golem acid reflux, if ''only'' the Diamond in the Rough is allowed to go gallivanting around in the tiger golem's intestines, in the first place? |
| 178 | *** Your standard sadistic magical temptation test. C'mon, this is one of the oldest ones in the book. Garden of Eden, anyone? |
| 179 | *** That explains the treasure, certainly, but the question the world wants to be answered is why that other guy couldn't even get inside without getting chomped. |
| 180 | *** Because he just plain wasn't worthy, to begin with. The one who was worthy would be let in, but then would be FURTHER tested by the treasure and such to ensure his worthiness remained. See above. |
| 181 | *** As to Abu being allowed in... isn't he kind of like Aladdin's really smart pet? Maybe the cave didn't care about letting him in for that reason. Granted, the cave didn't seem to care about the person grabbing treasure being human, but Aladdin could've just as easily told Abu to snatch it, and the cave likely didn't differentiate between them when considering that possibility. |
| 182 | *** It's possible that as soon as he stepped into the cave he started picking up treasure. Always possible that he's just ''' that''' greedy. |
| 183 | *** YMMV on whether the Garden of Eden was a sadistic situation, but the Cave of Wonders is literally the exact opposite. Garden: don't eat fruit from the tree in the center of the garden; EVERYTHING else is fair game. Cave: don't touch any of the tons of gold in the cave; only touch the lamp. That one, at least, is enough to drive anyone crazy. |
| 184 | *** The cave couldn't eat Abu without killing Aladdin too. Giving the [=DitR=] a shot at the lamp apparently trumps munching the unworthy. |
| 185 | *** Abu clearly wasn't worthy, since he grabbed a gem. The treasure is there to make sure no mistakes are made. |
| 186 | ** The entire thing is a test of character. It's like the classic fairytales; if you shut up and listen to the wise old hag, and do whatever she says, no matter how crazy, you'll get a reward. If you don't, you end up turning into an animal or get killed in some unpleasant manner. Those who are worthy enough to enter the cave have to also prove they're smart enough to listen to warnings, and won't be tempted by treasure. If they listen, they'll get a creature with the power to create all the treasure they've ever wanted. Maybe it's to prove they won't abuse the power of the lamp? Listening and not being tempted are two very good qualities when you're in charge of a practically-omnipotent being. |
| 187 | ** So the cave as a whole was designed as a test to find a worthy person to wield the lamp, and the cave's test came in two parts. The mouth of the cave (no pun intended) would test a person's inherent goodness, hence "the diamond in the rough." Whereas the treasure portion of the cave tested a person's responsibility and self-control, as both should be qualities of a "good" lamp-wielder. |
| 188 | ** I reckon that the Cave could chomp down any time. Self-destruct any time too. It knew everything going on down there. If Al had brushed against a gold piece and not even noticed, it could have said, "I'm cool with that." When he trod on Carpet, that too. When Abu snatches up a gem with the intent to take more, it promptly gets all, "DIE DIE DIE!!!" on him. |
| 189 | ** Another question, was a new Diamond in the Rough born every time the old one died? Or was there only one person in the history of the world that could take the lamp? This would mean that Jafar was obscenely lucky to have him exist in his time period and not on the other side of the world. |
| 190 | *** Perhaps "Diamond in the Rough" denotes a certain set of characteristics, and the tiger god counts up the number of people who qualify each time he's awakened. In this case, Jafar was unlucky, since he lived in an unworthy time, and there was only one [=DitR=] available. Had he lived in a worthier time, the cave might have said, "Know this: Only twenty-seven can enter here--Oh, wait, that one guy just died, so make that twenty-si--Ah, there's a street rat in Montreal who just had an epiphany, so we're back up to twenty-se--Wait, dammit, alright, only twenty-odd can enter here..." |
| 191 | *** Or simply, Jafar finds the ''nearest'' "Diamond in the Rough". Split screens and folder queues are hard to implement in your daily sorcery, so sorting the easiest candidate is just sensible. |
| 192 | *** Well, it's just fun writing that expresses thematic unity in literal terms and forces the characters to interact with and challenge one another, (Thanks Ted and Terry!) but I'll give rationalizing this a shot anyway: Number One, The treasure test might be to see how the [=DiTR=] would react to fortune once it was in his grasp. Do you really want to give cosmic power to a guy who was so stupid/greedy as to take treasure once being told by a magic cave to ''not'' touch it, even though he was getting a lamp anyway? Also, I'm betting the cave or the guy who created it wants to consume the wicked as much as reward the good. Number Two, as far as Jafar finding the guy who could enter the cave in his own time and even his own city, it could've very well been Aladdin's fate to enter the cave, and the sands of time responded accordingly. Ted and Terry do love that touch of destiny. Number Three, it's entirely possible that the cave didn't count Abu, either because he was hidden and didn't answer when the cave asked, or because he was just a dumb animal going in with the guy who ''could'' enter, not just a pawn sent in by someone who couldn't. (Of course, when I was a kid, I assumed it was because Abu also met the cave's criteria, being that he was a criminal in a low station in life, but with a good and noble heart, just like Aladdin. And I'm guessing the cave requires that criteria because whoever put the lamp there and enchanted the cave wanted the disenfranchised to get wishes, and not people who already had advantages or would cause misfortune. |
| 193 | *** I was under the impression that many different people can enter the cave, to gain a single object. When the Tiger-Golem said that "Only one may enter." it was implied that only one may enter to claim the lamp. The first dude couldn't enter because none of the artifacts were meant for him. This may be wildmadguessing though. |
| 194 | *** Why was Aladdin able to use Carpet? Wasn't he part of the booby-trap treasure? |
| 195 | *** In a feat of FridgeBrilliance I suddenly realized that Al didn't 'use' it. Neither he nor Abu touched it and the carpet itself was very careful not to touch them since that would indeed break the condition of the Cave Guardian. Only after the shit hit the fan and nobody cared about the rules anymore did they actually ride the carpet. As for asking the carpet for directions, the Guardian never forbid that. |
| 196 | *** Maybe, being sort of sentient itself, the carpet was a kind of mini-judge, to get up close and inspect the chosen one more thoroughly? Note that it clearly dislikes and mistrusts Abu at first, and only saves him from the boiling lava when Aladdin panics and drives it down to scoop him up. |
| 197 | *** No, Carpet is not part of the trap. He was just a friend of Genie. Genie is imprisoned in the Cave of Wonders and Carpet has no place in particular to go, so why not wait for somebody else to find the lamp? |
| 198 | *** On that subject... If Carpet was Genie's friend, why didn't it grab the lamp and hang around the entrance for someone to open it, then make like a loom and bolt so they wouldn't have to spend the rest of time waiting for a Diamond in the Rough? Heck, even rub the lamp to play cards or charades for a few thousand years, if tassels count as well as hands (if not, only the last point is moot). |
| 199 | *** Well, he's a ''carpet.'' Maybe spending ten thousand years in an underground cave with nothing particular to do is his idea of a good time. |
| 200 | *** And we've already seen Genie losing to [[strike: a rug]] Carpet before, maybe 10k years is too much loss to bear to a single opponent. |
| 201 | ** Has no one considered the possibility that it might have been that the DitR would have been offered a choice of the treasure if he left without taking anything? Perhaps it was all a SecretTestOfCharacter. Since Abu took that jewel, we'll never know. |
| 202 | ** I always thought of it as a sort of recursive Aesop. Aladdin looks like a common street rat, but he's better and nobler than he appears. Similarly, the cave is filled with appealing treasure and an old beat-up lamp that would never be impressive in-universe even in pristine condition (Aladdin even comments on this). The cave has the wisdom to know that the Diamond in the Rough is more than he appears, but will the Diamond have the same wisdom to perceive the truly worthwhile treasure from the traps? |
| 203 | *** Not unlike the "true" grail in ''Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade''. |
| 204 | ** The treasure in the Cave of Wonders could possibly be a nod to how genies (or djinn) granted wishes in original folklore; genies weren't so much the magical "*Poof!* There's your wish granted" sort, as they instead utilized their vast wisdom and accumulated wealth to grant their master's wishes. Granted, while Genie's obviously the former category of wish-granting, that treasure could actually be his and may to some extent be used in granting his wishes successfully; like purchasing the hypothetical legal paperwork to make Aladdin a true prince and the riches being thrown to the commoners during "Prince Ali". In this case, the treasure shouldn't be touched simply because it is Genie's resource. |
| 205 | ** Carpet is clearly a sentient creature. I reckon he used to be human. But he's now a carpet. He has no hands. He can't talk. I feel like only mortals can use the lamp. Now Carpet is part of the test. When Aladdin met this magical creature that was clearly intelligent, was he kind and friendly, or did he treat it like an object? When he was kind, Carpet knew that he was the Diamond, so he knew to take him to the lamp. |
| 206 | [[/folder]] |
| 207 | [[folder: Abusing the Genie for fun and profit]] |
| 208 | * At the very end, Aladdin refuses to wish for himself to be a prince, so he can free the Genie. But they have two other people (3 if Abu counts) and another genie, so that means they collectively have either 9 or 15 wishes left. |
| 209 | ** I'm playing the "It's the principle of the thing" card. The Sultan changed the law so that Jasmine could marry Aladdin, and the Genie was wished free, everyone goes home happy, plus having Aladdin wish himself a prince again would ruin the Main/{{Aesop}}. |
| 210 | ** He felt obligated to keep his promise. He promised the genie his third wish would be to set him free, so Main/ThisIsSomethingHesGotToDoHimself. |
| 211 | *** He still could've let Jasmine make some wishes before making the 'free you' third wish. But I guess that's my inner RulesLawyer talking. |
| 212 | *** The whole point is that Jasmine loves Aladdin for being Aladdin, thus having her change him would, again, ruin the Aesop. |
| 213 | *** So she could have wished for something else then. Why not end poverty or bring about world peace or something like that? |
| 214 | *** Because she was just plain stupid at that point for some reason. (Maybe Jafar mind-woogled her or something) |
| 215 | *** Perhaps Aladdin didn't want Genie to be forced to grant any more wishes... especially after the ordeal with Jafar. And besides, do you know how ''stupid'' it would have been for them to stop the story, which at this point has ''five minutes left'', to play hot potato with the lamp? Just let the story have its happy, and concise, end... From a filmmaker's standpoint, it's all about pacing, you don't want your movie to drag... Why do you think we have the reprises of One Jump Ahead and Prince Ali instead of a full-blown Main/IWantSong and Main/VillainSong? And why do you think Arabian Nights (Reprise) was cut out? |
| 216 | *** I think the point wasn't whether or not Aladdin ''could'' wish himself into a prince-seeming guy. First of all, they all already knew he was "just Aladdin," the sultan didn't even want someone of Jafar's station to marry her, so money and power weren't really the criteria for marriage. The point was not only for him to accept himself the way he was, but he also had to stop lying to everyone, stop cheating, and stop using his friends and breaking his promises just to cover his own ass. Plus, just freeing the Genie when he'd asked to be freed would've saved them the entire ordeal with Jafar at the end. Most of all, it's a Disney film, so the right thing to do would be to keep the promise you made to a good friend, rather than break it for selfish, dishonest gain. |
| 217 | *** Oh, and it would also mean that Aladdin didn't care that his new blue friend was a FRIGGIN SLAVE. |
| 218 | *** There are several degrees of "slave" I'm not sure that my all-powerful best friend counts as a slave. The only reason this might be in effect would be because he who holds the lamp is the master and Aladdin had just gotten a lesson in how dangerous that fact was. This still doesn't explain why they didn't pass the lamp around and get a few goodies out and THEN freed the Genie. |
| 219 | *** Because they're not selfish jerks. Why is that so hard to understand? |
| 220 | ** If you were the heroes, would you trust Genie Jafar to grant any wish you could think of? See "The Return of Jafar" for reasons not to. |
| 221 | *** Actually, he has to grant them, the law of the lamp says so. However, Jafar tends to grant wishes in a way that they bite you on the ass. |
| 222 | ** Perhaps in the heat of the moment after defeating the villain the main characters simply did not think to have everyone present make three wishes. No doubt later that evening they felt really stupid |
| 223 | *** On the other hand, if they ''had'' gone and done it, Aladdin would have come across as a phenomenal jerk. "Yeah, I know I said I'd free you with my third wish, but before that, I need you to grant some wishes for my girlfriend first, and my girlfriend's father could use a wish or two, and Abu, and, hey, I had this good friend once who'd like a wish, and..." At one point you have to stop and actually go do the right thing. |
| 224 | ** Aladdin using his third wish actually has little to do with him "doing the right thing"; he explicitly tells Jasmine that he needs to stop pretending to be something he's not - no matter what the Genie poofs up for him or what wishes he grants, Aladdin will still always be the same person without his powers, and that's the person Jasmine loves him for being. |
| 225 | ** The entire climax of the film played out in the first place because Aladdin held off on freeing the Genie to try and pursue his own selfishness and let the lamp fall into another person's hands. Why would he willingly try doing that again? |
| 226 | [[/folder]] |
| 227 | [[folder: Anachronistic Genie powers]] |
| 228 | * How does the Genie do impressions of people who won't be born for a thousand years? |
| 229 | ** [[AWizardDidIt A genie did it.]] |
| 230 | ** Because [[RuleOfFunny It's]] Creator/RobinWilliams. |
| 231 | *** According to the third Aladdin movie Genie can travel through time. |
| 232 | ** It's not just Genie. At one point in the series, the crew finds a female genie whose name escapes me. When she's freed, the first thing she asks is if she missed the Gold Rush of 1849, implying that Genies have some sort of omniscience. |
| 233 | *** Her name's Eden. And yes, the Genie can apparently see into the future, at least in broad strokes. Remember? "Al, you're never gonna find another girl like this in a million years. Believe me, I know, I've looked." |
| 234 | *** [[FridgeLogic Did Genie just imply that Aladdin would live for a million more years?]] |
| 235 | *** Not sure if serious, but Genie was talking about how he (Genie) looked for true love for over a million years but never found it. |
| 236 | ** There is one episode of the show that explicitly shows him in [[CutawayGag another time.]] |
| 237 | ** He has a really good cable package (at least according to a few of the non-canon comics). The easier answer is that he's like Merlin in ''WesternAnimation/TheSwordInTheStone'', in that he can travel through time. |
| 238 | ** What on Earth did the characters think he was talking about? |
| 239 | [[/folder]] |
| 240 | [[folder: All this for a loaf of bread?]] |
| 241 | * In "One Step Ahead", Aladdin steals a loaf of bread. (A loaf that looks suspiciously like a French baguette, but ignore that for now.) The guards and even the merchants seem pretty cavalier about doing things like hacking swords into support beams and chucking fruit and vegetables at him. Is it really worth causing all that damage to arrest a petty thief? |
| 242 | ** The bread being a French Baguette is more than likely a reference to Les Miserables. As well as Aladdin's line in the beginning. |
| 243 | ** Don't know if they would've gone ''this'' far, but stealing in such a marketplace -- especially in the Middle East -- has always been a ''very'' serious offense. Also, this isn't the first time he's stolen food, and he's recognized by a lot of people, so ... |
| 244 | *** Indeed. Consider the line which was later replaced in the song "Arabian Nights": 'Where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face/It's barbaric, but hey - it's home!' |
| 245 | *** It's probably not a matter of the bread, but of catching him. |
| 246 | ** He's a severe repeat offender, and personally embarrassed and/or annoyed probably every guard in the squad. My guess is that anyone who didn't have a personal vendetta (if any of them didn't) stopped chasing before the "tear down the scaffolding" bit. |
| 247 | ** Aladdin lampshades the overreaction. "All this for a loaf of bread?" But in the Middle East, getting caught stealing was punished by the thief having their hands cut off. It almost happened to Jasmine before Aladdin got involved. |
| 248 | ** [[WildMassGuessing It's a French baguette! It's probably the rarest and most expensive piece of bread in the entire kingdom. French baguettes weren't even invented until several centuries after the events of this movie, which means that somebody traveled through time to the distant future in order to get a piece of the world's fanciest bread, and then they brought it back to Agrabah..and then Aladdin stole it. Clearly, this is a serious offense.]] (Or, ya know, we could take the more realistic route and choose from one of the other responses above.) |
| 249 | [[/folder]] |
| 250 | [[folder: Jafar lusting after Jasmine]] |
| 251 | * Near the beginning, Iago suggests that Jafar should marry Jasmine so he can become sultan. After that, they can push the current sultan and Jasmine off a cliff. Jafar seems to consider this a very good idea, with no qualms about the messy ending bit. At no point is it ever indicated that he feels any particular desire for Jasmine herself. Say what you will about him, but lechery never seemed to be one of his character flaws. Yet, in the end, he traps Jasmine in Main/GoGoEnslavement and tries to get the genie to make her fall in love with him - despite the fact that he's now already sultan by virtue of his first wish. |
| 252 | ** It's probably because he hadn't become an all-powerful sorcerer yet and it's implied that the only reason he didn't hypnotize her into embracing him is because he knows she's strong-willed unlike her father. But when he got power, he initially only made Jasmine his slave as a gesture of cruel irony (because she boasted earlier in the film that she will one day be powerful enough to dismiss him). However, he gave her ultimate fate some thought and realized just how beautiful she is and changed his mind (as shown by him turning her chains into a tiara) as he wanted all the pleasure he could get from her. |
| 253 | ** I always chalked that up less to lechery and more to simple sadism, since there weren't any puppies available for kicking. He had pretty much everything he wanted at that point. Wouldn't have put it past him to just get a good laugh out of Jasmine fawning over him (and the Sultan having to suffer through it), and pushing them both off a cliff afterward. |
| 254 | ** Exactly, it was more about making her his servant. And, if you look around, that's apparently what servant girls wore around there. |
| 255 | ** And she's Main/TheHero's girl, which he didn't know at the time he made the plan to throw her off a cliff. Getting her would just be another way of telling his ego "I beat Aladdin". |
| 256 | ** Well it was Iago's idea to throw Jasmine off a cliff and not Jafar's. |
| 257 | ** Somebody else stated below that Jafar probably also just wanted to torment the Genie, since he knows that the Genie is a ShipperOnDeck for Aladdin and Jasmine. |
| 258 | ** In the remake, he doesn't show any attraction toward Jasmine until the end; his desire when marrying her is to torment her father in revenge for him constantly reminding Jafar of his subordinate position. |
| 259 | ** Presumably, Jafar knew her for a long time, possibly since birth, so his mental image of her for the past decade and a half was "literal child", and that he personally didn't get along with her kept his creeper instincts latent. But between Iago's suggestion turning on a "hey she's a young woman" lightbulb, and the rush he's getting from being all-powerful, he's probably developed some new lusts. |
| 260 | [[/folder]] |
| 261 | [[folder: Isn't Jafar still the Sultan?]] |
| 262 | * Unless imprisoning him in the lamp counts as overthrowing the government, Jafar is still the legitimate ruler of Agrabah, having used his first wish to become Sultan. |
| 263 | ** Well--maybe he's "really" the ruler, but does anyone care? After all, rulers don't just get their power from nowhere--they get it from people (including the military and police) doing what they say. So if he's the ruler, but nobody acknowledges it, does it matter? |
| 264 | ** Having a genie as the head of state in any city doesn't seem like a really good idea, does it? What with the servitude, the tendency to be buried in lamps for centuries, etc... probably a rule or two against that. Genies serve humans, not the other way around, hence no genie sultans. |
| 265 | ** Is he, though? The fact that he's no longer a free being probably trumps his 'right' to the throne. |
| 266 | ** Jafar wished to become Sultan, and he did. He never said anything about how long. So the people get together, have themselves a revolution, and overthrow Sultan Jafar, who's conveniently stuck in the lamp and unable to defend his throne. May they'll try him as an absentee for crimes against the people and strip him of his title, or whatever. Or the court will declare him effectively deceased, since as a Genie he's no longer human, and proceed to crown his "successor", the former Sultan, Sultan again. |
| 267 | ** I might remember wrong but all that genie did was move the palace outside the city and did something to the sultan so Jafar could take his place. It left it a little vague how "legal" this actually was. If he could have made him the legal sultan, what was with all that capturing the palace and all? |
| 268 | ** [[NoOntologicalInertia A severe lack of ontological inertia.]] Also, genies probably can't grant wishes to other genies, so when Jafar became a genie, his wishes became null and void. |
| 269 | [[/folder]] |
| 270 | [[folder: Aladdin banking on Jafar's wish]] |
| 271 | * Couldn't Jafar just as easily have wished to be all-powerful, while leaving the "Genie" part out? Aladdin sure took a big risk there. |
| 272 | ** That probably counts as "wishing for more wishes". |
| 273 | *** If that was the case then he wouldn't have been able to turn Jafar into a genie or a sorcerer, would he now? Anyway, Aladdin was playing with Jafar's ego, and it was his only choice anyway. |
| 274 | *** This is probably it. For all practical purposes, Aladdin was losing and was powerless to do anything about it. Even if he did manage to survive a little longer, what was he going to do against the most powerful sorcerer in the world? It was a gamble, certainly, but he would have lost everything if he didn't make the wager in the first place. If he did nothing, he lost. If he gambled, he either still lost, or won. There was no good reason not to do that. He had nothing left to lose if the gamble failed. |
| 275 | ** I'm not absolutely positive, but if I recall correctly, according to the old legends a genie can't grant a wish that exceeds their own power. A genie itself isn't all-powerful without restriction and therefore cannot grant that power to its master. |
| 276 | *** That's true. For example, in the original Literature/ArabianNights story of Aladdin, Aladdin has ''two'' genies, the genie of the lamp and the genie of the ring. The villain steals the lamp by trickery and uses it to steal the palace Aladdin had the lamp genie built for him. The genie of the ring can tell Aladdin where his palace went, but can't bring it back, because the genie of the ring is ''less powerful'' than the genie of the lamp. |
| 277 | *** In fact, this was a normal restriction on the ThreeWishes trope back in the day. The wish wasn't abstract magic that fulfilled your desire. It was a supernatural being doing a favor they owed you. If the being wasn't powerful enough to do the favor you wanted, you couldn't get what you wished for. |
| 278 | *** Since when has Disney ever cared about staying true to the old legends? ''WesternAnimation/{{The Little Mermaid|1989}}'' didn’t die, ''{{WesternAnimation/Pinocchio}}'' didn’t smash Jiminy Cricket, etc. The film states that aside from the rules the Genie lays out (no killing, no making people fall in love, no bringing people back from the dead), you can wish for whatever you want. And since Genie can make Jafar into an all-powerful genie, there’s no reason he simply couldn’t make him all-powerful. In other words, Aladdin employed a successful (if risky) BatmanGambit. |
| 279 | *** A genie not being able to grant a wish beyond its own power isn't so much "staying true to the old legends" as much as simple common sense and logic. After all, Jafar wished to be an ''all-powerful'' genie, but that's not what he became, because there's no such thing as an "all-powerful genie", so Genie can't do that. There are things that are obviously impossible even for him, and perhaps he considers them so obvious that they don't need their own rules. |
| 280 | ** It's not really even as risky as you all think - the reasoning behind Jafar's wish was Aladdin reminding him that no matter how powerful he wishes himself to be, he only has that power thanks to the Genie, and in the hands of someone else, the Genie could just as easily take it away. He knew Jafar would conclude that the only way to circumvent this problem would be to ''become'' a genie himself. |
| 281 | ** And even if Jafar doesn't wish for exactly what Aladdin had planned, he's still used up his last wish - meaning Aladdin or Jasmine could now take control of the lamp and stop him that way as a backup. |
| 282 | ** In the remake, Jafar ''does'' wish to become all-powerful, essentially; he wishes to become "the most powerful being in the universe", but doesn't specify it as a genie. It's only because the Genie has been updated into more of a JackassGenie that he grants the wish in a way that takes Jafar out of the running. |
| 283 | [[/folder]] |
| 284 | [[folder: Beings created by Genie]] |
| 285 | * Where do all the people Genie summons (for example, when "making Aladdin a prince") come from? Do they just spring into existence as adults with fake memories of childhood (or, even more freakishly, ''without'' them)? |
| 286 | ** A cut song showed Genie making them out of rodents and bugs. |
| 287 | ** I figured they were constructs when I was a kid, and would eventually disappear when nobody was looking, but thinking back it could be that they were from whatever country "Ali" was the prince of, with altered memories, assuming he had actually been made a prince and not a fraud. So they aren't standing around wondering "Where the heck is Ali, anyway?", they're being paid out of the treasury to smile and throw a parade. |
| 288 | ** I always thought they were just extensions of Genie. It'd certainly explain their synchronicity. And where he found llamas. |
| 289 | [[/folder]] |
| 290 | [[folder: Ruling on high!]] |
| 291 | * How did Jafar get Genie to move the palace to the top of the mountain in the film? He's never seen wishing for that to happen, and he gets three other wishes. |
| 292 | ** The Genie may not have been a LiteralGenie, but Jafar certainly seemed to enjoy literalism--witness his HurricaneOfPuns during the final confrontation. Therefore since the exact words of his first wish were "I wish to rule ''on high'' as Sultan!", and his innermost desires were to make this become literal, the Genie was compelled to pick up the palace and place it on a mountain. QED. |
| 293 | [[/folder]] |
| 294 | [[folder: Marriage law]] |
| 295 | * What's with the ''law'' that she has to marry a prince by her 18th birthday? If it was a tradition that'd be one thing, but ''law''? He's the sultan for god's sake, what would happen if his daughter broke that law anyway? What, someone's gonna toss the princess in jail for failure to find a husband by the time she turns 18? |
| 296 | ** First of all, a nitpick: it was her 16th birthday, not her 18th. Second of all, maybe the meaning of the law is that if the princess is not married by that age, she can't ''ever'' get married, for some obscure reason that probably made sense 500 years ago. What with Jasmine being Sultan's only child, it would be Very Very Bad for the succession if she missed her deadline, so it's understandable that he's a bit frantic. |
| 297 | *** ''Actually'', which birthday it is is never specified - the Sultan just says 'by your next birthday', which is not very specific. |
| 298 | *** He also said she only had 3 more days UNTIL her birthday, but [[Fridge/{{Aladdin}} we don't see anyone wishing her a happy birthday while Genie is lifting the palace up and placing it crooked on a mountain]]. (Sorry, kinda random) |
| 299 | *** The Sultan said "But you're almost 16!" a little before the "by your next birthday" line. |
| 300 | *** He did not say that. In the original draft, she was 15, but Jeffrey Katzenberg made Musker and Clements scrap that because he thought it would hurt Disney's image if they depicted an underage girl being desired by an 18-year-old. Hence they redesigned her to make her appear older and kept her actual age ambiguous. |
| 301 | *** No, he doesn't. No one ever mentions Jasmine's exact age in the movie. |
| 302 | *** Aladdin and Jasmine are assumed to be around the same age, [[WordOfGod and according to the creators]] Aladdin himself is eighteen in the film. |
| 303 | *** [[AgeGapAlgebra Half your age plus seven rule, dude.]] 18/2 + 7 = 16. |
| 304 | *** At the end of the movie the Sultan changed the laws so not only does a potential suitor for a princess not need to be royalty, they can be of any social class, even homeless street beggars. If the sultan has the power to change that law, why not the law dictating that she needs to marry by a certain age? |
| 305 | *** He certainly could have, and apparently did; they don't get married until the third film, which appears to take place after the animated series, which can be presumed to have taken place over a couple of years, while in the original film, Jasmine's birthday was coming up really soon. His character development in the film included him changing from a sultan who is bound by the rules to a sultan who is strong-willed enough to change them if they need changing. |
| 306 | *** Something that seems to be overlooked a lot is what else the Sultan says about the marriage. It's not just the law, but he wants Jasmine to marry someone who can take care of and provide for her. A rich prince would be the best option for such a criterion. When Aladdin saves the day, the Sultan flat out says that Aladdin proved his worth in his eyes, and decided the only thing in the way now was the law. |
| 307 | ** Y'all are also forgetting Jasmine's age is never stated in the film. The Sultan just says "by your ''next'' birthday". She was sixteen in early drafts, but that was scrapped precisely because the higher-ups didn't like the idea of sixteen-year-olds being married. |
| 308 | *** These were the same "higher-ups" guys who said "yes" to The Little Mermaid who is 16? And she (Ariel) got married at the end of her film. I'm just saying at the very most Jasmine is 15 going on 16. |
| 309 | *** Ariel is shown getting married at the end of her film with no definite time frame on ''when'' it happened. Plus Ariel's marriage was the result of falling in love and choosing to be with the guy, rather than being pressured into it by the law. |
| 310 | ** It's actually not so outlandish an idea for a not-so-developed society. Its purpose is basically to ensure succession — and it's meant to be a tool for the ''ruler'' to do so, rather than the princess. And while placing an exact deadline seems arbitrary, there needs to be ''some'' figure to make sure that the princess doesn't postpone the affair until she is past child-bearing age. The actual reason why it is even a problem is that the sultan is a doting parent and a ReasonableAuthorityFigure who can't bear the thought to utilize the law in the same unscrupulous manner as the ancestor of his who decreed it. |
| 311 | [[/folder]] |
| 312 | [[folder: Achmed's trousers]] |
| 313 | * When Jasmine meets her first suitor, we're led to believe Rajah has bitten the Prince in the trousers. You can see through the back of his pants some red-spotted underwear. But Rajah has fragments of the spotted underwear fabric in his mouth, not the fabric his pants were made of. Amusingly, this leads me to assume that he had his pants down and somehow gave Rajah the chance to attack the rest of his underwear. Maybe there's a reason Jasmine didn't like him... attempted sexual harassment. Or maybe he took off his pants for some other reason? |
| 314 | *** It was obviously so he could fuck the tiger. |
| 315 | ** Maybe he wears two pairs of the same underwear, like [[VideoGame/ToejamAndEarl Earl]]. |
| 316 | ** It may also be a matching hanky or something along those lines. |
| 317 | ** I actually noticed this as a kid and came up with a theory that I found rather amusing. When the suitor walks away in a huff, the hole is in the back of his trousers, and his underwear looks intact. But Rajah has some of it in his mouth. My guess? The underwear in Rajah's mouth is ''from the front''. Jasmine didn't have her pet bite her suitor on the butt, she ordered a full-on GroinAttack (which would certainly explain why he's so pissed off), and he lost both the front of his pants and the front of his undies. When leaving the prince turned around his trousers, to preserve what little dignity he could. |
| 318 | ** Or, simply, the inner lining of his pants matched his underwear. |
| 319 | [[/folder]] |
| 320 | [[folder: Jasmine's dress]] |
| 321 | * It's the ancient middle east and Jasmine is free to strut around everywhere dressed like some sort of harem girl? |
| 322 | ** It's Disney. They have never been historically accurate (see Mulan for another example). |
| 323 | ** Same reason why Aurora from Sleeping Beauty was showing her bare ankles in medieval Europe. Same reason why Pocahontas was wearing some kind of rawhide minidress despite no historical Powhatans having considered it appropriate to show so much skin. It's fantasy. Also, the outfit has some thematic significance. Such as freedom. In the 90's, the crop top had reached the height of its popularity among teenage girls and young women and was reinforcing the feminist ideal that a woman's midriff is a symbol of sexual freedom and a woman's power of creating life, similar to how some historical Middle Eastern and Indian societies viewed the midriff. Jasmine's design was simply following that trend. So yeah, it's not really meant to come off as objectification, but rather as sexual liberation. And Agrabah's culture seems surprisingly secular for an Islamic country, as such, it probably doesn't have any strict dress code. |
| 324 | ** In Islamic societies, women typically only have to wear hijab (Arabic for "modest dress") in public. Even in places where hijab is interpreted very strictly, women can usually show their hair and faces to men in their family and other women when at home. Sure, a massive palace is a pretty loose definition of "home", but if she mostly has female servants and the only man she sees on a regular basis is her father, she's probably not breaking any laws. |
| 325 | *** That actually makes sense. Possibly her father isn't a devout Muslim (since we never see him pray or practice his faith in any way) and he doesn't care as long as she's not indecent to his standards. Her suitor, being from another land, might not be Muslim, so her clothes don't bother him. But when she escapes to the market, she's wearing a very modest dress with a head scarf. It was possible to disguise herself, but more than likely it was to follow the dress codes. If she's been in the palace her whole life, the populace wouldn't have recognized her. |
| 326 | *** Also, Razoul may be a member of the family, which is why she takes off the scarf instead of simply pulling it back to show more of her face. Or it could just be an act of spite since she's mad at him. |
| 327 | *** Solving all of this, Aladdin actually takes place BEFORE Islam. Before Islam, some women would have worn very covering clothing, but Jasmine could have worn whatever before Islam if she wanted. |
| 328 | *** Nope. In the first film, the Sultan references "Allah" several times, heavily implying the Muslim faith. |
| 329 | *** According to the "fun facts" on the DVD 'Aladdin' is set in the 15th century, so Islam should be the main faith for the region. |
| 330 | *** Not to mention that a sultan is explicitly a Muslim religious ruler, subordinate only to the caliph. (and Allah himself) |
| 331 | *** And there are other traditions in Agrabah that would not be found in devoted Islamic cultures. The Sultan's throne is shaped like an elephant. Muslim architects wouldn't know how to craft something like that. But maybe it was a gift from a foreign nation and refusing to accept it or even display it would be tantamount to treason in a kingdom where diplomacy seems to be mandatory for prosperity. |
| 332 | ** Putting aside the question of Islam, how about that Jasmine is rebelling by dressing that way, like most teenagers? It shows up somewhere else here that the Sultan is a bit spineless, and that might have something to do with it (although it seems Jasmine is his only child, so his spinelessness might be irrelevant). Also, remember that she briefly dresses a little more formally for when the Sultan introduces Prince Ali as his daughter's (official! FINALLY!!) suitor - she only wears the "blue mist" when she's inside the palace and not expecting a public guest (presumably the Sultan surprises her with the suitors - he's obviously concerned, but it's not helping). And this all takes place in a desert - the question might just as well be "why's everyone so overdressed?". |
| 333 | *** The dancing girls in the harem and Aladdin's parade wear outfits similar to Jasmine's, though mostly in red or other colors besides blue, so I'm guessing in the faux-Arabia universe they created it was just fine for girls to dress like that. The only women we see who aren't dressed like that are Jasmine when she's in disguise, and much older, more matronly women. |
| 334 | *** To answer that last question, just look at the Middle East today. People usually wear light, long-sleeved garb, at least traditionally. Without sunscreen, it acts as a relatively good way to avoid sunburn as well as prevent pain from blowing sand. Aladdin was probably wishing he had bothered to wear a shirt during the sandstorm on the way to the cave of wonders. Sand being blown by strong winds hurts quite a bit. |
| 335 | [[/folder]] |
| 336 | [[folder: Climbing the sand]] |
| 337 | * Near the end... when Jasmine is trapped in the hourglass, why doesn't she just climb the sand? |
| 338 | ** Because even if the opening above her was big enough to fit her head and shoulders through, there was no way to stop the falling sand from plugging it up. Climbing the sand would give her a few extra minutes at best. |
| 339 | *** Not to mention that loose, dry sand is hard to get purchased on, and she couldn't tamp it down enough to support her with more sand constantly pouring in overhead at that rate. |
| 340 | [[/folder]] |
| 341 | [[folder: Arabian Nights]] |
| 342 | * "Arabian nights, are hotter than hot, In a LOT of GOOD ways..." Meaning...? Is the peddler suggesting there are sensual things going on behind the scenes? |
| 343 | ** Aladdin wound up stumbling into a harem during his opening number. So yes. |
| 344 | ** Also a You Fail Meteorology Forever. Deserts are ''cold'' at night. |
| 345 | *** Cold desert nights imply that "hot" does not refer to physical temperature. |
| 346 | ** The show appropriated this song for the intro, and this phrase, in particular, was synced up with [[MsFanservice Jasmine twirling in front of a mirror]]. |
| 347 | ** "Hot" can also mean "exciting". The general theme of the song is that Arabia is dangerous but it's also really interesting. |
| 348 | [[/folder]] |
| 349 | [[folder: Genie rules and loopholes]] |
| 350 | * The three rules and upper limits of Genie's powers just bug me. |
| 351 | ** First, because the rules as they are formulated are incredibly easy to bypass. "Can't kill", big deal, well I'll just wish for a weapon to kill him then, or I could wish for the power of the grim reaper. I can't kill everyone through simple wishing, but who's gonna stop me from wishing for the moon to drop on Earth? And what if I wish for the Genie to give ''me'' the power of resurrecting people? Similarly, I could wish to become the man she would fall desperately in love with at first sight. |
| 352 | *** The "can't kill" rule means that Genie can't kill someone directly, but you can get creative with your wishes and kill someone indirectly (much like ''WesternAnimation/TheFairlyOddParents''). Wishing for a weapon? The Genie doesn't kill it, you did. The Moon dropping on Earth? The Moon killed everyone, not the Genie. Same with the resurrecting (unless there is a cosmic rule about not bringing back the death) you would be the one creating the zombies, not him. The Love one is more or less the same. Unless you can't make someone love you with magic (or Genie Magic) you can bypass it by wishing for the right kind of magic... or chemicals... or you can make a wish for becoming the most irresistible person to the person you're after. |
| 353 | *** I don't think the Genie could fulfill a wish of dropping the Moon onto the Earth since the direct and unavoidable result of that wish would be lots of dead people. By that reasoning, the Genie could just shoot someone with a gun and say "It was the bullet, not me!" Someone might be able to wish they had giant rockets that could push the Moon into the Earth, but it's not Genie's fault whether or not the person actually uses them. |
| 354 | *** There's also no rule against paralyzing them from the neck down while you go in and finish the job. |
| 355 | *** (I ''really'' hope that you're referring to using paralysis to get around the "no-kill" clause, not the "love" clause.) |
| 356 | *** Hell, you can be even MORE mean and wish for them to be paralyzed, then wish them to be immortal and make both wishes un-wishable |
| 357 | *** "Minions, kill him! Bring that lamp over here and rub it on my cheek. Genie, I wish for a magic headless golem controlled by my thoughts. Minion, chop my head off at the collarbone and put me on its shoulder. Muahahahahaha!" (Assuming, of course, that you wouldn't have to wait a while for the genie's now-former master and any minions who know what the lamp does to die of old age to keep the minions from somehow double-crossing you and stealing the lamp. Hiring a Super Thief and telling them the lamp kills any nearby people in contact with human skin should be sufficient.) |
| 358 | *** Maybe I wasn't clear enough... [[AndIMustScream REALLY paralyzed]], as in, you can't move ANY muscle, not the cartoonish one when you can talk just fine. |
| 359 | *** I was following the "from the neck down" precedent set above, and now understand. |
| 360 | *** Or they could just wish the person to be in unspeakable mental and physical agony for all eternity, rather than blowing 3 wishes on someone you don't like. |
| 361 | *** As mentioned above, it's possible that the rules are so powerful that they change reality to stop themselves from being broken. Therefore, every plan to get around the rules would be doomed to fail. (i.e the moon would miss or Jafar spontaneously decides to stop Aladdin from going over the waterfall) |
| 362 | ** The rule seems to be that you can't say stuff like "I wish X person(s) were dead", but you can wish them in situations that would kill them (Like Jafar himself did to Abys Mal in the second movie, transporting him to the bottom of the ocean. |
| 363 | ** And then, what would happen if Jafar had a burst of intelligence, and wished to become a GOD instead of a genie? |
| 364 | *** Do gods even exist in this setting? |
| 365 | *** They *do* make a crossover with Hercules... and Chaos is pretty much god-ish. |
| 366 | *** I think it would be beyond a genie's power to turn somebody into something more powerful than a genie. Granted, it doesn't explain why Jafar didn't at least try, but still. |
| 367 | [[/folder]] |
| 368 | [[folder: Jafar's dress]] |
| 369 | * I don't think there was really any point in all of Jafar's costume changes at the end. He starts in his traditional villain outfit, then steals Sultan's style, then goes back to the first outfit. Erm, why? Do the clothes represent his powers or something? |
| 370 | ** The final outfit had a different hat. |
| 371 | ** And it was pointier. |
| 372 | ** They could sell more action figures. |
| 373 | ** Short answer: yes, the outfits represent his powers, or at least his roles. He starts off in the robes of a vizier, then those of the Sultan when he becomes Sultan; the change to the third outfit is him becoming a sorcerer, with his original outfit subtly changed to show his change in status/powers. (Side note: Jafar looks ''terrible'' in white, IMO. Maybe the directors thought so too.) |
| 374 | [[/folder]] |
| 375 | [[folder: Razoul's job security]] |
| 376 | * It bugs me why Razoul wasn't fired after the first movie. He and his guards tried to kill Ali! Yes, they were doing it under Jafar's orders, but it disturbs me how much Razoul appeared to be enjoying it (notice how he laughs as Aladdin plunges into the sea). |
| 377 | ** Jafar most likely hypnotized the sultan into giving the order. After the treachery was revealed and Jafar was defeated they just wrote off all the wrongs of his accord (fair enough) and moved on. As for Razoul's glee, the only reason I can think of besides him being a terrible murderous asshole (you know, for kids!), is that he recognized Ali as Aladdin and was glad to get rid of the hated street rat. |
| 378 | *** Since the Sultan seemed surprised in the scene where Aladdin leveled his accusations I don't think the Sultan played any part in Prince Ali's assault. You'd think Al or Jasmine would have confronted Razoul over what he did. |
| 379 | ** And on that same note, what happened to those other two guards we saw once in the scene where they try to arrest Jafar? I figured that the Sultan had a more elite group of guards in the palace, but we never see anyone dressed like that in the rest of the films or series. |
| 380 | ** You said it yourself -- Razoul's job is to obey Jafar's orders. Him enjoying it doesn't relieve him of that responsibility. And the only sign that he ''did'' enjoy it came with no one around to see it, so how are Jasmine or the Sultan supposed to know about it? |
| 381 | ** He's also the guy who has to remind the other guards that they all have swords in "One Jump Ahead" - he's the only competent guard the Sultan actually has. |
| 382 | ** The remake gives the guard captain (he has a different name in that version) his own sort of subplot related to this. He does arrest Jafar when ordered to and declares complete loyalty to the sultan as an authority figure, which gets turned on its head when Jafar wishes to become sultan and the captain briefly accepts him as his leader instead. It's not until Jasmine convinces him to fight to protect the people of Agrabah rather than in the name of law and authority that he reneges on this. |
| 383 | [[/folder]] |
| 384 | [[folder: Entering the cave by unconventional means]] |
| 385 | * Could you reach the Cave of Wonders if you tunneled underground? After all, Iago managed to get the lamp to the surface so the layer of rock around it must have a weak part. |
| 386 | ** The rules prevent entering. Nothing is said about leaving. |
| 387 | ** If you tried tunneling into the Cave of Wonders, I'm pretty sure the Tiger God would just appear underground and eat you. (Unless you happen to be the Diamond in the Rough, but in that case, you should've just used the main entrance!) |
| 388 | [[/folder]] |
| 389 | [[folder: The sultan caring about Aladdin]] |
| 390 | * In the beginning, the Sultan got upset that Jafar ordered the decapitation of a street rat. Ok, it's understandable Jasmine got upset, but why does the Sultan care? To him, Aladdin is nothing more than another criminal, and Aladdin isn't a prince, so it's not like he'd allow Jasmine to be with him anyway. Yet the Sultan was quite angry with Jafar for essentially just doing his job. |
| 391 | ** Jasmine probably didn't pitch it to her father as, "I loved him and want to marry him!", but she was clearly very upset about it for some reason and so therefore the path of least resistance was to yell at Jafar about it and then go, "See, darling? It was just Jafar being dumb, and it's dealt with. Now, about this marrying a prince business..." |
| 392 | ** The Sultan was angry that Jafar had A): Executed a guy who was innocent of the crime he was accused of (kidnapping the Princess), B): Done so before all the evidence could be gathered (Jasmine didn't even get to explain that he hadn't kidnapped her), and -- possibly most important -- C): ''Not bothered to inform the Sultan of any of this.'' The Sultan directly says that for the future, Jafar is to discuss the prisoners' fate with the Sultan personally before they are executed, so he probably didn't like the fact that Jafar had gone behind his back, especially since this had resulted in the death of an innocent person. |
| 393 | ** Like the above troper said. What Jafar should've done was had Aladdin arrested, brought before the Sultan, and have the Sultan informed of all the evidence against Aladdin. Then the Sultan (by his own divine right of being...well...a sultan) would mull over it and decide the punishment. Jafar didn't do this. That's why the Sultan was so pissed off. |
| 394 | ** I also think everyone's letting their real-world knowledge of what sultans are like influence their perceptions of the Sultan in Aladdin. There's a much simpler explanation than all of this for why the Sultan would be ticked off that Jafar just up and had some guy executed: the Sultan's a ''nice guy''. He's a sweet little old man who loves to play with toys and dote on his daughter. He probably doesn't execute anyone, if he can help it at all, let alone some kid from the streets. |
| 395 | ** While it's true that the Sultan is a doting, caring old man who wouldn't randomly have beggars executed ForTheEvulz, and it's true that his character development was that he learns that he gets to change laws he didn't like, the point is this: the Sultan takes the rules ''very seriously'', it pretty much defines who he is. One of those laws was that if they got a prisoner, they were to take that prisoner to him so that he could decide their fate, as is his god-given right to do so. What angered him was that Jafar had overstepped his boundaries by acting like ''he'' was the Sultan, and not the actual Sultan himself. Yes, the Sultan is a nice dude, and it would be just like him to let Aladdin work in the palace as a servant if he thought Jasmine had a thing for him, but given that his character is "I must follow the law!" this should be taken into mind. |
| 396 | ** Jafar was undermining his authority as Sultan. If the Grand Vizier can order executions, what good is his own power? He's a good Sultan who cares about doing what's right. Every execution must be ordered by him and he is the one who must judge whether or not the crime warrants an execution. Especially since Jasmine confirmed that he wasn't kidnapping her. He was mad because Jafar went behind his back to order the execution of a boy who turned out to be innocent. |
| 397 | ** Basically, this question only makes sense if you judge Sultan's reaction based only on his position, without taking into account who he is as a person. |
| 398 | ** Given that the Sultan forgave Jafar really fast, I don't think he was THAT mad. Rebuking Jafar and establishing a new rule was just his way to throw Jasmine a bone so she could move on and get back to finding an eligible husband. |
| 399 | ** Yeah, if anything, the Sultan's reaction is understated (And I think supposed to show he's a bit out-of-touch.) By our modern democratic standards Jafar committed a ''human rights violation'', and was mediated like two kids fighting over the shower or the car or something. |
| 400 | [[/folder]] |
| 401 | [[folder: Leaving Abu behind]] |
| 402 | * When Al was in the Cave of Wonders and went across the lake to get to the hill with the lamp, why did he leave Abu on the shore? It's not just that Al ''knew'' how impetuous Abu was around treasure and thus that leaving him unattended was dangerous (I wouldn't be surprised if that statue with the huge gem wasn't there when he left and then appeared to tempt Abu but still). What was the point of leaving him there anyway? Was it to keep watch? |
| 403 | ** The Cave of Wonders and the Lamp Sanctuary were vaguely reminiscent of a TempleOfDoom. Aladdin even approached the lamp with the same cautiousness of a certain [[Franchise/IndianaJones archaeologist]]. There's a good chance that Al was preparing for a trap and wanted to avoid having to save Abu when the shit hit the fan. His preparedness was futile. |
| 404 | ** Aladdin needed to make some pretty long jumps to get across the lake. Abu's added weight might have made those jumps impossible. But then again, why couldn't the carpet have just flown them across the lake? |
| 405 | [[/folder]] |
| 406 | [[folder: Murder by technicality]] |
| 407 | * What if there was a guy on the edge of a cliff, a Genie shoots a bolt of lightning at the ground in front of the guy, it crumbles and he falls off the cliff. Would that work? |
| 408 | ** Yes. The fall killed the guy, not the Genie. |
| 409 | ** No. No more than if the Genie shoved him off the cliff and said, "The shove didn't kill him, the fall did." I understood the rule as the Genie can't directly or deliberately kill anyone. As long as another being's free will is not involved, the Genie can't kill. Though I suppose he could try to trick the guy into jumping off the cliff, scaring him with the lightning bolt so much he accidentally leaped off. But since the rock crumbling underneath him would not have been a result of the guy's free will the Genie would have to either save him or make sure the cliff doesn't crumble. |
| 410 | ** That's basically what Jafar does in the second movie when he learns that "Street rat...is still alive?!!!!!!" He hurls a fireball at Al, the explosion throws both him and Abys Mal to the edge of the balcony, the balcony crumbles, and they fall. Al is saved by Genie, Abys Mal is caught on a tree. Whether these were happy coincidences or indeed the aforementioned probability-warping on the part of the First Rule is not clear. |
| 411 | [[/folder]] |
| 412 | [[folder: Artistic Licence: Genie Anatomy]] |
| 413 | * The genie's anatomy bugs me. Yes, I know, it's a cartoon, and he's a shapeshifting genie, so the normal rules of anatomy don't apply to him. But one thing really gets me. Alright, Aladdin is drawn with a normal chest and has two pecs. Genie on the other hand seems to have one big pec. What's up with that? |
| 414 | ** It looks to me like he ''is'' supposed to have two pectoral muscles, they just aren't very well-defined. What it actually looks like, though, is that he has a really short ribcage, so that his abdomen goes right up to the bottom of his pecs instead of stopping where the sternum would be for a normal person. I don't really have any reason as to why his stomach is really skinny while his chest and arms are either rather fat or muscular with a layer of fat over, [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation unless]] [[WMG/{{Aladdin}} he really was sensitive about gaining weight in the last few thousand years, and magicked the gut away since he cared about it more than anything else.]] |
| 415 | *** Genie's character design is supposed to be soft, goofy, and not intimidating to kids, so the animators only added the barest suggestion of muscles to give his body form. |
| 416 | [[/folder]] |
| 417 | [[folder: Jafar's nearly-wasted wish]] |
| 418 | * Anyone want to explain why Jafar tried to bother with his third wish to hypnotize Jasmine when he had a perfectly good [[HypnoRay hypnotizing snake staff]] in his hand at the time? He'd have probably won right then and there had he simply raised it up and forced her into eye contact with it. |
| 419 | ** If you're talking about the last scene when he's got her dressed in her [[Main/GoGoEnslavement flattering red outfit]], didn't Aladdin smash the thing several scenes ago? Since he's an all-powerful sorcerer, I guess the better question would be why didn't he just conjure up a new hypnotizing wand? Or simply zap her? Jafar was on a psycho-mad-with-power high at this point, so it's not likely he'd be thinking things through too clearly. |
| 420 | ** Well, he DOES create a new one right before his big VillainSong, but perhaps the hypnosis effects are only temporary (he seems to have to re-zap the Sultan several times in the movie) and he wants the Genie to finalize it. |
| 421 | ** I always interpreted it as Jasmine being too strong-willed and temperamental to be hypnotized in that way. The Sultan, while he does have his CrouchingMoronHiddenBadass moments, is for the most part weak-minded and easily manipulated (not to mention, he trusts Jafar for the majority of the movie, while Jasmine openly despises him), and as such, the Sultan is easily controlled while Jasmine wouldn't be. |
| 422 | ** All moot points considering by that time Jafar was the most powerful sorcerer in the world and had spells of every type of power level and for every occasion (we saw him conjure objects out of nothing and transport a tower across the world; the guy was already all-powerful). I assumed that not only could he cast the same mind-control spells, but they would be more diversified and greatly enhanced. He could indeed have simply cast a permanent love spell on Jasmine (or in the very least a permanent ''lust'' spell) powerful enough to overcome even her strong will, and he wouldn't have had to waste a wish. |
| 423 | *** Perhaps, until that moment, he had just contented himself with having her chained, thinking that soon she would surrender, as he believed that he had managed to kill Aladdin. However, one or two days after, which is when Aladdin manages to get back when he forces Jasmine to take the apple and raise it so that he can eat it without moving much, he realizes that, even as he holds the chain, she will always be the same rebellious girl, the one who is in love with Aladdin. Thus, he decides to take the last shred of her will and make her fall completely in love with him, and how to do it better than to use his last wish to force the Genie to do this? Besides, it is another way to humiliate Genie, because he knows he likes Aladdin and Jasmine, and them together, and forcing Jasmine to fall in love with Jafar would be another way to twist the knife. |
| 424 | *** Or perhaps it's impossible to force people to fall in love with any kind of magic--the inherent power of true love fits a Disney film. Jafar just forgets or doesn't know that genie magic can't make people fall in love any more than sorcerer magic, or he thinks Genie just wasn't normally willing to make people fall in love. |
| 425 | ** Another thing to keep in mind is that while the staff Aladdin broke had the Hypno-power, we have no proof the replacement staff has it too--what we see Jafar do with it is literally puppetmaster and compel the Sultan and Jasmine, not hypnotize them. They still have their own will, it's just their bodies won't obey them. And I would imagine that, once he decided he wanted to make Jasmine his, Jafar would want her to do it of her own free will, not because he hypnotized or compelled her. Yes, making her love with him a wish isn't free will, but at the same time if the wish ''changed'' her will so that she'd love him, that would be more delicious to him than the compulsion...especially if behind the facade of 'love' [[AndIMustScream she were screaming]] [[FateWorseThanDeath forever]]. |
| 426 | ** It's a control thing. He could hypnotize Jasmine into being his servant but he would know she was only under a spell and that her true feelings for Aladdin would be underneath. But for wishing her to fall in love with him, if Genie had been able to do so then effectively reality would have been altered to make Jasmine love him. Pretty much the difference between creating an illusion of gold and actually owning some. |
| 427 | [[/folder]] |
| 428 | [[folder: Knowledge or Idiom?]] |
| 429 | * When Aladdin appears to expose Jafar's attempt to drown him, he says "Better check your crystal ball again Jafar!" Even as a kid, I was questioning this subtext. Did Aladdin know beforehand that Jafar was secretly a sorcerer? (Or that he at least had magic talismans) or is his crystal ball remark an in-universe idiom for "you're wrong about that"? |
| 430 | ** Al is pretty clever, so maybe he guessed that Jafar was more than just an average guy since he knows about an enchanted cave with a genie's lamp, was able to spring him from the jail, and has a few other tricks up his sleeve. |
| 431 | *** But unlike in the Live Action remake, Jafar was disguised as a crippled old man at the time. While we're not shown everything that Al observed in that interaction, unless he's THAT good at recognizing people via eye contact, it would have been really shrewd for Al to have guessed that Jafar and that old man were the same person. |
| 432 | [[/folder]] |
| 433 | [[folder: Rules, or polite suggestions?]] |
| 434 | * The Genie seems to imply that he CAN bring people back from the dead, but that he's just decided not to do it - 'It's not a pretty picture - I DON'T LIKE DOING IT!' For a genie who secretly yearns for freedom and who gripes about his enslavement when asked, he seems to be taking a pretty big liberty already with the death proviso. |
| 435 | ** Presumably if someone ordered him to bring someone back from the dead, he'd have to do it anyway. |
| 436 | *** Aladdin is in Disney Universe, meaning that to resurrect someone, you need to fool Hades (if the dead one has been bad, ''even if it was NOT how it worked in the original mythos''), or get it back from Paradise if he has been a good guy. Now, if I remember correctly, no one ''ever'' went go from Paradise in Disney continuity, as it would be bad for some reason I don't get (to me, Disney's view of Paradise seems lame). To summarize, resurrecting people is way too hard for Genie. |
| 437 | *** Considering his helpful visual aid during the "no resurrection" rule is ''himself, zombified'', maybe he's warning Ali that Genies make people CameBackWrong? |
| 438 | *** Given that he had just explicitly said it's something he ''cannot'' do, I always took the comment as a mere joke. |
| 439 | *** Probably something of a warning. When someone says "I wish so-and-so came back to life," they tend to mean, "Just the way they were before they died." Genie can't do ''that''. What he likely ''can'' do is reanimate the body (he makes other inanimate objects move at points if I'm not mistaken), so he's saying, "If you wish for that, I can't give you what you're really asking for. I can give you ''something'', but neither of us is gonna like it." |
| 440 | *** He outright states "It's not a pretty picture. I don't like doing it." That implies that he has actually tried before and only succeeded in zombification. |
| 441 | *** Also, do "people" quite literally refer to human beings, or to all beings? Could you, say, wish for your dead dog back? |
| 442 | ** Perhaps, later in the film, Aladdin drowns and he did die, and the genie brought it back to life. He says something like 'you know I hate doing that' right after. |
| 443 | *** What he actually said was "Don't you scare me like that!" He saw Aladdin was about to drown and saved him before he died. |
| 444 | ** Maybe he can't truly bring someone's body and soul back from the dead, just as they were when they were alive. He could maybe reanimate the corpse but the person would have CameBackWrong. |
| 445 | ** Or maybe Genie ''used'' to be able to bring people back from the dead, but it was such a horrible ZombieApocalypse scenario that he convinced his master at the time to use up a wish to make it so Genie can't bring people back from the dead ''anymore''. |
| 446 | [[/folder]] |
| 447 | [[folder: Love loophole]] |
| 448 | * Genies cannot make people fall in love. No argument there, love is the most powerful force there is. Far too powerful for any magic to affect. But is that only the case with TRUE love? Couldn't Genie theoretically BRAINWASH someone into THINKING or ACTING like they're in love? Sure that would be too despicable for THIS genie to WANT to do, but I'm just curious. |
| 449 | ** He doesn't seem to be able to alter the mind at all. For example, when he made Aladdin a prince, he just gave him the appearance and entourage of one - and people's minds weren't warped into thinking he was one. Likewise, Jafar did become the Sultan, but Genie couldn't trick them into worshipping him as one. Maybe if the Genie was particularly devious, they could conjure up a potion or a magical object that would do so as long as it was drunk/worn. |
| 450 | [[/folder]] |
| 451 | [[folder: Sorcery]] |
| 452 | * Was Jafar a sorcerer of lesser power before his second wish? Or did he just possess intimate knowledge of how to use or build mystical objects (his staff, the storm machine, the ancient version of google that told him that Aladdin was the diamond in the rough, the vial of smoke that allowed him to ninja escape)? |
| 453 | ** I think he was just your everyday sorcerer who could only do "little" pieces of magic like hypnotize people, but until he got his second wish he couldn't do "big" things like, say, launch a tower into the Arctic. At least that's what I always assumed. |
| 454 | ** All magic he did before the second wish seemed to be performed with various trinkets, like his staff, the golden beetle from Gazeem, and Sultan's family ring. After the wish, he gains the power to do magic on his own. He's basically an alchemist before the second wish. |
| 455 | ** Before the second wish, all he has is knowledge. It's his staff that's magic - and that seems to be restricted to hypnotism. So the second wish basically just cuts out the middleman. |
| 456 | [[/folder]] |
| 457 | [[folder: Screwing Jafar out of his wishes]] |
| 458 | * Obviously Genie had a vested interest in not being a literal/asshole Genie to Aladdin, but when Jafar became his master... he was clearly not enjoying serving Jafar, so why not 'misinterpret his wishes' a little bit? For his first wish (rule on high as Sultan) you could make him Sultan of a tiny patch of desert land or somewhere on the other side of the planet. The second wish (the most powerful sorcerer in the world) just makes every other sorcerer in the world powerless and gives Jafar a tiny bit of power. There's some room here for misinterpretation. |
| 459 | ** He's just not that type of genie. |
| 460 | ** Seeing how Aladdin was able to outsmart him into facilitating his escape from the Cave of Wonders for free, I'd say it's more likely that the Genie simply didn't think of it. In the second movie, Jafar had no compunctions about subverting Abis Mal's wishes (when Abis Mal wished for a legendary sunken treasure, he ''teleported him underwater'' and made him waste a second wish to escape); nothing was stopping Genie from doing the same but his own imagination. |
| 461 | ** Genie might have been afraid of the repercussions and what Jafar may do to Aladdin, Jasmine, or anyone else if he doesn't go along with him. Even if he doesn't have much in the way of magic, he still has some connections and could make life very difficult for them. |
| 462 | ** Maybe he actually did? With the first wish anyway. Jafar wishes to rule on high as sultan, so Genie just literally moves the palace high up and gives Jafar the sultan's clothes. Perhaps he could have {{Mind Rape}}d all of Agrabah into worshiping Jafar as sultan but he tried to be as literal as possible. With the second wish, Jafar was very specific so there wasn't much Genie could have done there. |
| 463 | ** The remake plays up the potential for the Genie to be more interpretive when it comes to granting wishes, and the first two Jafar makes are actually worded differently to compensate for this -- his first is "I wish to become sultan of Agrabah" as opposed to "I wish to rule on high as sultan!", and his second is "I wish to become the most powerful sorcerer there is," rather than "most powerful sorcerer in the world." It's his third wish that's vague and ambiguous enough for Genie to screw him over, as he just wishes to be "the most powerful being in the universe" rather than wishing himself specifically into a genie. |
| 464 | ** The Return of Jafar verifies that a Genie can be killed if his lamp is destroyed. Genie knew that in the off-chance Jafar knew about this, he'd have no qualms about doing away with a potentially useless slave. |
| 465 | [[/folder]] |
| 466 | [[folder: Undoing the freebie]] |
| 467 | * "Oh, no, I never actually wished to be out of there..." *snap* "Okay, well, I never actually took you out of the cave..."? |
| 468 | ** Again, He's not [[JerkassGenie that kind]] of [[BenevolentGenie Genie]], and since Aladdin was his master he goes where Al goes and thus would be stuck back where he started. |
| 469 | ** He was legitimately impressed that Aladdin had pulled the wool over his eyes, and so the Genie decided that he could have that one for free, under the condition that the remaining wishes were clearly stated to be wishes. |
| 470 | ** Genie doesn't have that much free will. He's not really supposed to do anything with his genie powers that his master didn't wish for (getting out of the cave was OK because he legitimately believed it was a wish) but he definitely can't do anything to his master AGAINST his master's wishes. |
| 471 | ** In the live-action remake, the “get out of cave free” card is treated as a quid pro quo for Aladdin freeing the Genie, since poofing Aladdin back into the cave is something that iteration of the Genie would definitely do. The order of things is switched around so that Al learns about his desire for freedom, then offers to put his third wish towards it, THEN Genie finds out Aladdin tricked him into getting them out of the cave, then Aladdin says, “At least now I can use my “third” wish to set you free.” Implying that if Genie takes away the freebie, Aladdin’s third wish will go toward something else instead. This is more in line with how the two of them are initially working together due to circumstances and don’t actually become friends until later. |
| 472 | [[/folder]] |
| 473 | [[folder: Jasmine using the lamp]] |
| 474 | * if you don't need to wait for someone to make all their wishes, and whoever is holding the lamp is its master..why didn't Jasmine just grab it when she was all chained up? She was standing right next to it, so she could have reached for the next apple, grabbed the lamp, and before Jafar says anything, shout really loudly something like... "I wish Jafar had no powers?" or, "I wish Jafar was a daisy?" or something like that. |
| 475 | ** That wouldn't have done anything. Jasmine would have had to rub the lamp and summon Genie first. Only Jasmine doesn't know how to use the lamp, because (obviously) Aladdin didn't make any wishes in front of her, and the only wishes Jafar did in front of her were after he had already summoned the Genie (and so didn't do the lamp-rubbing part). |
| 476 | ** I just have to say I am now completely overwhelmed with laughter at the image you just put in my head: the dancing flowers from the WesternAnimation/SillySymphonies ''Springtime'' short (as seen in ''WesternAnimation/OneHundredAndOneDalmatians'')...with one of them bearing Jafar's face. Thank you! :D |
| 477 | ** Jasmine also doesn't know the rules of the lamp. She might not know that she could make a wish, or even that Aladdin used to be Genie's master. And as well as that, Jafar's attention is entirely on her so she has no way of distracting him long enough to get the lamp. |
| 478 | ** Also, she wasn't standing right next to the lamp. We don't see it until Jafar sets it down on the arm of his throne, which is after Jasmine has started seducing him to distract him from Aladdin. And before that, her hands were manacled and chained to Jafar's staff. So even if the lamp were nearby and she had known to grab it, Jafar would've stopped her as soon as she made a move. |
| 479 | ** In the remake, she does steal it off of Jafar and escapes the palace with Aladdin on the carpet. Unfortunately, they get chased down by magically-enlarged Iago, so they don't have an opportunity to summon the Genie before they're caught and taken back to the palace. |
| 480 | ** Note in the original that Jasmine only goes for the lamp because Aladdin tells her to. By that point, she might have guessed she could do something with it - but Jafar traps her in the hourglass as soon as she touches it. |
| 481 | [[/folder]] |
| 482 | [[folder: Aladdin can read?]] |
| 483 | * When did Aladdin learn how to read? For that matter, why is there writing on the super-old lamp in Arabic? Wikipedia says the Arabic alphabet wasn't created until about 400 C.E.! |
| 484 | ** He never said the writing was in Arabic. Maybe the reason he can't read it is that he doesn't know the language and only briefly mistakes it for Arabic. |
| 485 | ** Why did the Sultan say "Praise Allah!" before, as stated, Islam was founded? Answer: if they'd been historically accurate (with regard to linguistics and the religious beliefs appropriate to the setting), people would have thought something was wrong. So, rather than give their viewers something to look up, they went with what they thought most people would expect. |
| 486 | *** "Allah" is just the Arabic word for "God", just as "Dieu" is the French word for "God". There are modern, Arabic Christians and Jews who refer to God as Allah because that's the word for it in their native language. Before Islam was founded, people in that region would refer to their God or gods with that word. Simple as that. |
| 487 | *** No they would not. You're treating the word like it means 'diety' in a generic sense. It doesn't, at least not until recently. Before Islam was founded, Allah was one among several deities at Mecca. Hence, Allah is as much a name for the Muslim deity as YHWH would be for the Jewish and Christian diety. In polytheistic cultures, the deities had/have names, though in monotheistic cultures the deity's name was/is more likely to become the generic word for deity. |
| 488 | ** I can't answer the second part, but as for Aladdin knowing how to read, he wasn't on the streets for literally his ''whole'' life. He lived with his parents for at least a few years, if I remember correctly. Therefore, it's quite possible/likely that his parents taught him at least a little bit of reading skills. |
| 489 | *** I can answer the second part. Westerners have a difficult time estimating historical periods in the Middle East. Based on the clothing and architectural styles shown in the movie, the absolute earliest Aladdin could have taken place is about 800 C.E. It's more likely to have happened around 1200 - 1400 C.E. During that time period, the Arabic script was already fully developed, and there was a very high literacy rate. Additionally, what we now call Islam had already been around for several hundred years. |
| 490 | [[/folder]] |
| 491 | [[folder: Jafar marrying Jasmine]] |
| 492 | * Why didn't Jafar ever consider marrying Jasmine before? He didn't even think about it until Iago mentioned it. Wouldn't that have been the easiest way to become sultan, rather than spending so much time and energy searching for a genie to make him one? Well, considering his character, [[HetIsEw there is one potential reason why]] it might be unappealing to him, but really, you'd think that he would have at least thought of it before. |
| 493 | ** Because you had to be a prince to marry a princess. He says as much in the film, and he's gotta go through a couple of little-known loopholes to make it legal. |
| 494 | *** But he created that loophole pretty easily as soon as he got the idea to marry Jasmine. Why didn't he do that earlier? |
| 495 | ** Also, really? What, if ''anything'', gave you any indication from the movie that he was gay? Was it him putting Jasmine in [[GoGoEnslavement the skimpy outfit?]] Or perhaps him getting thoroughly [[DistractedByTheSexy distracted when she seduces him]]? Yeah, he ''totally'' found her unappealing. |
| 496 | *** I was mostly joking about the gay thing, but Jafar can be seen as a negative gay stereotype, what with his mannerisms, voice, and design (see Scar for the same thing). And I saw the whole "skimpy outfit" and slave thing as a way for him to have power over her. Someone else on this page talked about how him wanting Jasmine to fall in love with him was just him being a sadist. And I wouldn't exactly say that he was DistractedByTheSexy... he was pleased that she was submitting to him, and during her diversion, what he wanted from her was for her to "tell me more about myself," which she did. He's egotistical, not lecherous. |
| 497 | ** If Jafar marries Jasmine somehow, he gets to become Sultan. But if he finds the lamp, he gets to become Sultan ''and also he gets to make wishes''. It's not hard to see why he preferred the latter option. And imagine what would happen if someone ''else'' found the lamp while he was busy doing other things! No, no, no. Once he knew that the lamp existed, he had to make that his priority. |
| 498 | ** Jafar would have also thought of Jasmine as a temperamental brat he'd have no chance with if she's turning down perfectly good princes coming to court her (from his POV). |
| 499 | [[/folder]] |
| 500 | [[folder: Princess jewelry]] |
| 501 | * A small thing perhaps, but when Aladdin first sees Jasmine it's in the crowded marketplace and she clearly has her disguise hood down, revealing her crown. Why did no one notice the obvious shiny princess crown that was in stark sunlight, when she was surrounded by people? Especially Aladdin, who had his gaze focused intently on her for a good minute. |
| 502 | ** Why would the commoners know what the princess' attire looks like? They just assumed she was some random rich lady. This, by the way, brings up another point. You'd think her jewels would've been enough to buy that whole apple stand (or maybe that whole marketplace) together with the vendor. Ok, she panicked and didn't think of it. But why would the stall-dude completely ignore the opportunity for the best bargain in his life? |
| 503 | ** Because he was too angry at this apparent peasant girl stealing his goods, that he didn't notice? It happens. |
| 504 | ** And considering she just took an apple and claimed she didn't have any money, he may have assumed that the shiny jewelry she was wearing was stolen too. And went to cut her hand off thinking he was saving the town from a notorious thief. |
| 505 | ** Plus, what are the odds that any of us meets ''the child of the person running our country?'' In his mind, no sane princess or servant-girl of the palace would wander out in the market unattended dressed in beggar clothing. Occam's razor, even if she did try to say she was from the palace, he would, of course, conclude she was lying. |
| 506 | ** In the remake, Aladdin surmises based on the clothing and jewelry she's garbed in that she really is from the palace, and Jasmine doesn't really try to hide it from him; she just lies that she's the princess's handmaiden instead of the princess herself. |
| 507 | [[/folder]] |
| 508 | [[folder: Genie granting Jafar's wishes]] |
| 509 | * Why in the world did the Genie start granting Jafar's wishes when Aladdin hadn't finished using all of his yet? |
| 510 | ** Because Jafar was holding the lamp. Whoever holds the lamp gets his wishes, simple as that. |
| 511 | *** One would think that was information important enough for the Genie to ''tell'' Aladdin about at some point. |
| 512 | *** Why bother? The plan was 'Make Al a prince, whatever the second wish turned out to be (in this case saving him from drowning), and then set Genie free'. It was only going to be a short partnership while nobody knew he had the lamp so no need to share every little rule. |
| 513 | *** Plus, why would it have mattered even if he had told him? Aladdin could already see that the Genie was granting Jafar's wishes -- him knowing that was possible beforehand would've done jack squat. |
| 514 | [[/folder]] |
| 515 | [[folder: Jafar's knowledge of the Genie]] |
| 516 | * How did Jafar know that he got only three wishes when he didn't give the Genie the opportunity to give him the same orientation as he'd given Aladdin? |
| 517 | ** Jafar very obviously knew about the lamp before he ever sent Aladdin in there. You don't think he would have done some research into how it works? |
| 518 | *** If he did that kind of research, you'd think he would know that he can't wish for Jasmine to fall in love with him, though. |
| 519 | *** He knows, he just doesn't give a shit about some stupid "rules". |
| 520 | *** Or maybe, considering the sequel, Jafar knows that while these rules exist, there are also ways to get around them and break them through technicalities. Jafar knows that Genie can't make Jasmine love him at the snap of a finger, but can pull off circumstances that in turn would make Jasmine fall in love with him eventually. (Perhaps put Jasmine through something so horrible, that should Jafar provide her a shoulder to cry on, she'd slowly develop more positive feelings for him.) Of course, this isn't a guaranteed outcome, so Jafar's last wish would be a big trial and error gamble. |
| 521 | *** Maybe it's something you "just know" once you become a genie. |
| 522 | *** He wasn't a genie at that point though. |
| 523 | ** He literally just starts the wishing immediately; too fast for Genie to do anything but obey him. |
| 524 | [[/folder]] |
| 525 | [[folder: Surviving in the cold]] |
| 526 | * He was only there for a few minutes, but how could Aladdin have lasted as long as he did in the swirling snow of... Canada, Siberia, Antarctica, or wherever the heck he was. |
| 527 | ** Well, we couldn't exactly have a good Disney film if poor Aladdin froze to death. Remember, this is the same movie with an otherworldly creature (Genie) and a talking parrot. |
| 528 | *** Assuming Agrabah is somewhere in the Middle East, and it didn't take Aladdin that long to rush back (hours at most?) then I assume Jafar golf'd him to Siberia. |
| 529 | *** I always assumed he was somewhere in the Himalayas. |
| 530 | ** The Himalayas is the most likely canidate, considering geographically speaking, it's much closer to the Middle East than Siberia, which is waaaay up there in Russia in the Arctic circle. |
| 531 | ** That's whom we call TheDeterminator. |
| 532 | ** On a cold winter day, try going outside in your pajamas and standing out there for a few minutes. You'll feel pretty cold, for sure, but I think you'll find it takes a lot longer than that for it to do serious damage, let alone threaten your life. |
| 533 | [[/folder]] |
| 534 | [[folder: Skewed priorities]] |
| 535 | * In the scene where Jafar is hypnotizing the Sultan into allowing him to marry Jasmine, why would he snap out and say, "But you're so old"? The previous suitor, whom Rajah dispatched quickly, had to be at least thirty if not older, and he was CHOSEN by the Sultan. Why worry about age now? |
| 536 | ** We have no idea how old the previous suitor was, and Jafar was probably much older than him whatever his age was. |
| 537 | *** It's hard to tell with animation but Jafar looks a couple of decades older than Prince Achmed to me. |
| 538 | ** Also, RuleOfFunny :P |
| 539 | ** I thought it was ComicallyMissingThePoint - the Sultan is strictly sticking to the law, and when Jafar is hypnotizing him to order the princess to marry him, he resists not because it's against the law, but because he's ''so old''. |
| 540 | ** One of Sultan's reasons for insisting on the marriage is so that Jasmine "has someone to take care of and support her" after he's gone. It's kind of hard for Jasmine's husband to ensure that she's looked after if he's only got a few years to go before his health starts to decline; Sultan's concern over Jafar's age is because he doesn't want Jasmine to have to worry about becoming a widow in only a few years because her new husband's age caught up to him. |
| 541 | [[/folder]] |
| 542 | [[folder: Jafar knowing about the lamp]] |
| 543 | * Ok, it might have said this somewhere in the film, I'm not sure, I only watched it once recently, but how did Jafar know about the lamp in the Cave Of Wonders in the first place? |
| 544 | ** Given Jafar's line "At last, after all my years of searching, the Cave of Wonders!", presumably through years and years of boring research. The specific steps he took to find out where the lamp was and discover the cave don't really matter anyway. It's just an irrelevant backstory. |
| 545 | [[/folder]] |
| 546 | [[folder: Selective awareness]] |
| 547 | * So Jasmine doesn't realize she can't take stuff without paying for it, but she knows enough to play along with Aladdin's insanity plea? Huh? |
| 548 | ** She's just plain not used to paying for things herself. She's a princess, remember? There has probably literally never been a time when she's had to actually hand someone money for goods or services. And what, exactly, is so mentally strenuous about following the instruction of "act weird so they think you're nuts"? |
| 549 | *** She's the future ruler of the country and that's the basic economy, something she is intimately familiar with as, you know, ''the future ruler.'' Not being used to paying for stuff isn't an excuse. |
| 550 | *** No, she's the future ''wife'' of the ruler. It likely never occurred to the Sultan to teach her the ways of ruling because why bother? |
| 551 | ** Jasmine says later that she's a fast learner. She quickly realized that Aladdin was coming up with something to get her out of trouble and knew that if she played along, she'd avoid getting her hand cut off for stealing. |
| 552 | ** Jasmine is not a simpleton, but she is sheltered and was raised by a guy who is a ReasonableAuthorityFigure and probably taught her that good deeds should be rewarded rather than punished. So she simply saw giving a hungry kid an apple from a stall full of them as not such big a deal. |
| 553 | ** I defer you all to the second point in this section. It doesn't take two brain-cells to go, 'OK, so sweet beggar guy is trying to save my life by pretending I'm his mentally-challenged sister so I'll just play along.' |
| 554 | [[/folder]] |
| 555 | [[folder: Payment]] |
| 556 | * Couldn't Jasmine have paid for the apple with one of her earrings? A piece of solid gold jewelry's got to be worth a few bits of fruit... |
| 557 | ** She didn't have time to think about it. In a manner of seconds, the merchant guy had a sword out ready to chop her hand off. She panicked, begged for mercy, and then Aladdin was there to stop him. |
| 558 | *** Though this just makes the merchant seem dim, to just chop off her hand so easily instead of taking two seconds to see a better solution. |
| 559 | *** Why would he assume a better solution was possible? Jasmine had said she didn't have any money, so the merchant probably assumed she wouldn't have had anything valuable on her. Jasmine's choice of disguise was not doing her any favors, either. |
| 560 | *** Probably worth pointing out that she has been raised inside a luxurious palace all her life and likely doesn't realize her jewelry is expensive products that sell well around here. Someone in the Fridge also pointed out that the merchant may have thought her earrings were stolen too |
| 561 | ** In the remake, the merchant does demand Jasmine's clearly-visible bracelet in exchange for the food, rather than try chopping her hand off. Of course, the bracelet turns out to be an heirloom from her mother, so Aladdin pretends to hand it over to the guy and then sneaks off with it afterward. |
| 562 | [[/folder]] |
| 563 | [[folder: Sultan helping out]] |
| 564 | * When Jasmine is trapped in the hourglass and everyone has been incapacitated, why isn't the Sultan helping her? We aren't shown that anything traumatic has happened to him such as being turned into a toy or unraveled, he's just in a Jester's costume. I mean jeez it is his daughter. |
| 565 | ** He was suspended in the air by puppet strings earlier. He may have been floating off screen at the time and there weren't any good one-liners for Jafar to say to him. Plus that would make four rescues being defeated in a row, [[RuleOfThree people don't like that.]] |
| 566 | [[/folder]] |
| 567 | [[folder: That's one selfish diamond]] |
| 568 | * So, the Diamond in the Rough, the one person allowed to go into the Cave of Wonders, gets in and gets the Genie Lamp, and our Diamond in the Rough, with such a pure heart and only the noblest of intentions, uses his wishes to... Marry a Princess?... How does the Cave view him as the Diamond? Oh sure, he's a good guy, but he certainly doesn't use the lamp for anything really good (Save freeing a nice Genie), nothing really a Diamond in the Rough would or should use it for (Especially compared to when he would give bread to orphans and then save said orphans from being whipped, or saving people from losing their hands). |
| 569 | ** I wasn't aware that there was that kind of specific criteria for exactly how someone referred to as a 'diamond in the rough' should act. Oh, right, because there isn't. "Diamond in the rough," just means something good found someplace you wouldn't expect it. |
| 570 | ** Also, what is so wrong with him wanting to win Jasmine's hand in marriage? He was seeking true love, isn't that something good people do (at least in fairy tales and other stories)? Not to mention one could argue that once he married her and got the power of being the future Sultan, he could start using his more altruistic urges (the bread-giving and whipping-preventing) on a larger scale, backed up by the authority of leadership. |
| 571 | *** If you look at it from one angle, it CAN be considered selfish. Al may have been smitten by Jasmine at this point, but he didn't know his feelings were mutual (He certainly didn't know Jasmine cared about him enough to be mad at Jafar for claiming he had him executed) He even says he was worried she wouldn't accept him if she found out he wasn't really royalty. He seems to care to some extent about marrying her whether she would like it or not. Some relationship counselors would agree that's rather selfish. |
| 572 | ** Also, the lamp is supposed to be something of a ''reward'' for Al's "diamond-in-the-rough" -ness, and rewards are inherently a little self-indulgent. You don't call someone selfish just because they receive compensation for a good deed and don't immediately put it towards anything besides themselves. |
| 573 | *** Same thing applies to a lot of heroes in Disney movies. They all have hopes and dreams, but whether they deserve them or not depends on their prior virtues and morality. |
| 574 | ** Given how Jafar used the lamp, trusting a kind peasant boy who wants to win the heart of a down-hearted princess with relatable feelings despite opposite backgrounds and class, sounds pretty tame right? |
| 575 | ** And Aladdin was the only one selfless enough to give up his third wish to set the Genie free. Evidently, no one else before him had thought of that, because then the Genie would be free already. |
| 576 | ** Aladdin literally first asked "what would you wish for?", so his initial thought was what he could do for the Genie. He figured he only needed a wish for Jasmine, possibly maybe something for riches as well, and then the third was for Genie. |
| 577 | [[/folder]] |
| 578 | [[folder: No touchy!]] |
| 579 | * If the rule for the Cave of Wonders is "Don't touch anything except the lamp", how is Aladdin able to touch the carpet? |
| 580 | ** Perhaps the carpet doesn't count because it touched him first. Or maybe it counts as part of the floor. Aladdin was allowed to touch the floor. |
| 581 | ** And the carpet isn't really part of the treasure. That stuff burns up and is revealed to be an illusion while the carpet stays intact. I think the "touch nothing but the lamp" wasn't meant to be taken ''literally''. The lamp was the only treasure that could be removed. |
| 582 | ** Technically, he didn't touch it until after everything went to crap and they didn't give a rat's tail about the rules anymore. So there's that. |
| 583 | ** The live-action remake clarifies that the warning refers to intent, not simple actions; there, the warning (given by Jafar this time) is changed to "''Take'' nothing but the lamp," and Aladdin does accidentally touch many pieces of the treasure inside the cave. It seems the cave itself is capable of telling whether you're handling something with unscrupulous intent since Abu picking up the red jewel was enough to set it off, whereas their interactions with the carpet and the other treasures were deemed harmless. |
| 584 | ** The carpet is not a part of the cave's treasure, but a sentient being trapped inside the cave. Now, one might wonder why it didn't fly out when Jafar tried to make Gazeem enter the cave... well, it was slumbering, and didn't realize it has company before Aladdin stepped on it. |
| 585 | [[/folder]] |
| 586 | [[folder: Technicalities of first wish...again]] |
| 587 | * When Genie makes Aladdin into a prince did he actually make him a prince or simply give him the illusion of being a prince? Is there a kingdom out there that Genie created, or did he simply nudge reality so Aladdin was the twelfth son of some land? After all, he wished to be a Prince, not to be rich enough to masquerade as one but he dodged Jafar's question about his home presumably because he didn't expect it to hold up under scrutiny. The same thing seems to happen to Jafar who wishes to be Sultan and the result as far as we're shown is his outfit turning white. Neither Jasmine nor Sultan recognized his authority. |
| 588 | ** Since Aladdin doesn't give the name of his kingdom or where he's from when Jafar questions him, we can assume that Genie just gave him the appearance of being a prince - or else took the wish of "make me a prince" more literally, as in pimping Aladdin out so that he'll impress the princess and get the marriage - thereby becoming a prince that way. |
| 589 | ** It's possible that the legitimacy part was subconscious on the Genie's part, as in, he just snapped his fingers and made it so that Aladdin was made a very distant relative of nobility in some other country, allowing him to focus on the more important act of giving him all the flashy-showy-offy stuff that would actually impress people. Also, the third film reveals that Aladdin was ''already'' a prince - his father, Cassim, was known as the King of Thieves, which would make Aladdin the Prince of Thieves. |
| 590 | ** Maybe it's a case of GodsNeedPrayerBadly: Aladdin is a prince because the people around him ''believe'' he is a prince. And while the genie can't directly brainwash anyone to believe that Aladdin is a prince, he can use his powers to ''convince'' people the boy is one. |
| 591 | [[/folder]] |
| 592 | [[folder: Bignaybob]] |
| 593 | * Something that's been bothering me ever since I've seen the movie. Just what exactly is a 'Bignaybob'? Is it a term for lady's man or something like that? |
| 594 | ** [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabob Nabob]]. |
| 595 | [[/folder]] |
| 596 | [[folder: Jafar killing Aladdin]] |
| 597 | * Why does Jafar attempt to screw over and kill Aladdin in the first place? Aladdin may be a diamond in the rough and an all-around good guy but there is little indication that he was the kind of guy who would have bothered opposing Jafar. Basically, Aladdin gets three wishes, most likely becoming a prince, something involving making him even more palatable to Jasmine, and who knows what his third wish would have been. Jafar then wishes to become Sultan, followed by a powerful sorcerer, and while neither of them was smart enough to do that setting Genie free at the end would have been pragmatic. If Aladdin had freed Genie even with his second wish everybody would have been better off as an added bonus he still would likely have gotten his second wish. If Jafar had freed Genie after becoming an all-powerful sorcerer Genie may very well have either left, taken Aladdin and left, or without knowing how the power scales work been incapable of defeating Jafar anyway. To say nothing of how many ways keeping a genie around who's on poor terms with you is never going to end well. Forgetting how Jafar is actually defeated the very first time he fell asleep Jasmine, Sultan, Razoul, or any number of just random people could have gotten their hands on the lamp and wished away his powers, making the same wish about being the most powerful sorcerer in the world trumping him, turned him into a genie, or anything else. |
| 598 | ** To put it briefly, because Jafar doesn't care. Aladdin is more likely a liability than he is an asset by the time Jafar has the lamp. Even if he doesn't suspect him capable or willing to interfere, that doesn't mean he would think of him as worth saving. |
| 599 | ** And for the record, even if he did care enough to keep Aladdin alive, he wouldn't have anything to repay him with like he promised to: the treasure in the cave was all fake, and I doubt Jafar would've been willing to waste time letting Aladdin have a run with the Genie before enacting his own plans -- especially considering Aladdin's willingness to free the Genie after he's made his first two wishes. Jafar wouldn't be happy about that. |
| 600 | * Perhaps a case of EvilCannotComprehendGood. Jafar expected Aladdin to try and take the lamp for himself since it's not hard to guess that it must be much more valuable than all the treasure, and that's what Jafar would've done in his place. "Diamond in the rough" means "the one who can enter the cave" for him and nothing beyond that, and, well, Aladdin, ''was'' a thief and Jafar couldn't hope to overpower him if Aladdin had decided to take the lamp before Jafar could make his first wish. Better be safe than sorry, he thought. |
| 601 | [[/folder]] |
| 602 | [[folder: Genie asking for freedom]] |
| 603 | * Why didn't genie, at any point in the past simply explain to someone who found the lamp that he'd still be incredibly powerful and very grateful if someone set him free? As the tv show and sequels his powers are reduced but it doesn't seem to actually be by a whole lot, hell with the restriction presumably lifted on the whole not killing the thing he has less raw power but is probably more able to wield what power he does have. A lifetime of service, like he basically seems to give Aladdin, would have been incredibly useful, and assuming he's lying about ten thousand years giving you quite the crick in the neck serving one mortal until he dies of old age sounds like a pretty sweet deal. |
| 604 | ** What you fail to realize is that Genie was a ''slave'' prior to meeting Aladdin. Thus, he may not have the authority while serving under someone else to just blab on and on about whatever he wants or request something of them that would benefit him, as we've seen when he was working for Jafar. The only reason Aladdin found out about the Genie wanting freedom was that he asked him what he wanted most. |
| 605 | ** Also, that would require people to trust the Genie when he says that he'll reward them for freeing him, enough to give up three wishes that they would have granted for certain on the off chance that he's telling the truth. And considering the [[JackassGenie reputation]] some genies are known to have in mythology, that'd be a pretty big risk for them to take. Even Aladdin knew enough to ''use'' his first two wishes and hold off on freeing the Genie until the third one. |
| 606 | ** The live-action version makes clear that the masters Genie is used to having are not the kind who would give a rat's behind what he thinks or desires. It takes him time to warm up to Aladdin for this reason. |
| 607 | ** Also, "I would be so grateful, that you'll have a somewhat less powerful and more autonomous being devoted to you" isn't even something that occurred to him at the time. The movie ends with him and Aladdin parting ways, with no expectations or promises that he'll come back. That it ended up as something of a Genie Rumspringa was due to Disney wanting sequels and spin-offs, and explained in-story as him eventually getting lonely. |
| 608 | [[/folder]] |
| 609 | [[folder: Weird song lyrics]] |
| 610 | * During "A Whole New World", in which Aladdin and Jasmine are listing off the things they want to have in the life they plan on building together, why, among them, does Aladdin say ''"A thrilling chase..."''? I know it's just a song lyric, but still, wouldn't thrilling chases with palace guards be something he's looking forward to getting away from in his new life with Jasmine? |
| 611 | ** Perhaps it means more like 'chasing dreams' or something of that sort. |
| 612 | ** They're chasing new horizons, new sights to see... which is what they've been doing over the entire song. In fact, it's stated ''directly'' in the lyrics: ''"A whole new world / Every turn, a surprise / With'' '''''new horizons to pursue''''' ''/ Every moment, red-letter /'' ''''' I'll chase them anywhere''''', ''there's time to spare."'' |
| 613 | [[/folder]] |
| 614 | [[folder: Gee, that was fast...]] |
| 615 | * Why is the Sultan so quick to call for Jafar's arrest after Aladdin tells him what Jafar has been doing? It's like, he wakes up from the hypnosis after the staff is broken, and literally within the next three to five seconds, Aladdin just comes right up to him and says, "Your royal vizier's been controlling you with ''this''!" And that's it. There are no questions asked, and no evidence gathered beyond what Aladdin says; the Sultan just instantly turns to Jafar, angrily labels him a traitor, and summons the guards to arrest him. |
| 616 | ** The Sultan is probably a bit smarter than he appears so when Aladdin tells him he's been controlled a lot of pieces of the puzzle fall into place all at the same time. Remember as far as we can tell Agrabah is run fairly efficiently so either the Sultan is smarter than he appears or Jafar has basically been running the country for years and getting no credit. |
| 617 | ** Presumably the hypnosis has an amnesia component where you forget that you were ever hypnotized. But the Sultan gets freed in the middle of the spell, so the amnesia part doesn't activate this time around, and thus he can remember the experience of Jafar trying to hypnotize him. That's all the evidence he needs to order Jafar's arrest. |
| 618 | [[/folder]] |
| 619 | [[folder: Just gulp him up!]] |
| 620 | * Why didn't the cave of wonders just collapse instantly after Abu grabbed the jewel? I know Rule of Cool is why the escape sequence was done like that, but if the cave just closed its mouth, they'd be trapped for good. And the lava wave would catch them at a dead-end; literally! |
| 621 | ** RuleOfCool and the sake of drama. Another possibility that it does cause the golem actual pain. I mean, they fly over a literal lake of lava at one point. Doubt Tiger-Golem Man enjoyed that very much. |
| 622 | ** Maybe the cave had sensed that the one who grabbed the gem wasn’t the same “diamond in the rough” that had been let inside? And therefore, it wanted to give Aladdin a chance to escape whilst trying to trap Abu? |
| 623 | [[/folder]] |
| 624 | [[folder: About the Rugman]] |
| 625 | * A couple of questions about Aladdin's magic carpet...First, why does no one at the palace, or the rest of the film, for that matter, ''ever'' question where it is that he got it from? Are magic carpets just commonplace in this world? And for that matter, shouldn't Jafar have been a bit suspicious that Jasmine's latest suitor came riding in on a magic carpet that was identical to the one he saw Aladdin trying to fly out of the cave on? |
| 626 | ** Magic (along with talking parrots) seems to be generally accepted as existing in this world even if it's not available to everyone. The Sultan takes an interest in Aladdin's carpet but doesn't seem surprised by it, suggesting that there are magical artifacts and powers available to a select few (like Jafar) but not most people. As for why Jafar didn't recognize it, he never got a good look at it when he saw Aladdin trying to escape from the cave. The carpet is knocked from under him by a boulder as he's nearing the mouth of the cave and Jafar leans over the edge to see him dangling from some rocks. |
| 627 | ** The existence of magic carpets is common ''knowledge'' — Aladdin, an uneducated street urchin, can tell what the carpet is at first sight and hardly acts surprised at all. Of course, even if the knowledge of magic carpets is common, it doesn't mean that such carpets themselves are common. But if there's one guy who ''obviously'' has one, it's the loaded prince in possession of all kinds of wonders. |
| 628 | [[/folder]] |
| 629 | [[folder: Abusing the Genie for fun and profit...again]] |
| 630 | * Something that has been bugging me since I watched the film as a child. Let's accept that, once Jafar is defeated, Aladdin has spent his two first wishes and is no longer a prince, so he can't marry Jasmine. So he has a dilemma about his third wish: either free Genie as he promised, or become a prince again so he can marry Jasmine. WHY doesn't he become a prince again, THEN give the lamp to Jasmine, so Genie would grant three wishes to Jasmine too? The lamp, and the Genie inside it, are not going anywhere. Jasmine would have two wishes for herself - like, granting a long, happy life together for them all, improving the lives of the people in the suburbs, or ending children's misery, whatever - and still have a wish left to give the Genie his freedom. Not to mention that she could use three wishes and THEN give them to her father! |
| 631 | ** Because he made a promise, and what you're describing is using Genie as nothing more than a tool. I.e., being no different from other callous masters he had. Aladdin freed Genie because he was his friend and it was the right thing to do. He isn't the sort of person to do a cold calculation on how he can exploit his friend to the fullest before giving him what he'd already agreed to in the first place. |
| 632 | ** The Genie was already friends with Aladdin and Jasmine, and he was more than willing to stay as a "slave" as long as they were happy. Making Aladdin a prince again, then fulfilling Jasmine's wishes, wouldn't take more than a few minutes, and then he would be free. It's not like "exploiting him" for years and years, then freeing him when he's no more useful. Even the Genie would have considered it a great idea. |
| 633 | ** What makes Aladdin the good guy he is is that he decides to keep his promises and doesn't try to game the system instead. He promised Genie he'd free him for his third wish, so he does. |
| 634 | ** I think there's a semi-canonical denying of the "The lamp is not going anywhere". If we are to believe the animated cutscenes of the special feature game of one of the "The Return of Jafar" french [=DVDs=] — I don't know if there's a USA DVD that also has this feature — (and that's, I admit, a bit "if"), then after three wishes are granted to a genie-lamp master, the lamp automatically goes back to the Cave of Wonders. In the special feature game, we are looking through the eyes of someone who find Jafar's lamp sometime between the first two movies. We can make wishes, which Jafar sadly exauces in his Return of Jafar way (that is, using play on words to exauce one of the possible meanings of what you said, but probably not what you expected since it nearly always harm you). If the player manages to escape Jafar's tricks, Jafar says "Never mind, now I'm free!" but Aladdin corrects him "No, after a genie has exauces 3 wishes he gets back to the Cave of Wonders for 10 000 years!". So probably if the wish had been "I want to be a Prince back", they wouldn't have had time to give the lamp to Jasmine. Or they would have had to come back to the Cave of Wonders… Which was probably difficult since none of them would be a Diamond in a Rough anymore (Aladdin would no longer be a street rat, never mind his golden heart, and Jasmine remains a very noble princess…). Of course, you could make an argument of an alternate "Return of Jafar" storyline because they eventually discover that Iago is, too, a Diamond in a Rough, and is the only one who can get the lamp back and free the genie. But since Jafar's lamp is in the Cave of Wonders too, dilemma: will he rub his ancient master's lamp and get back to the dark side, or rub the Genie's lamp? Perhaps a bit too much "if", but I hope it helps. |
| 635 | ** Aladdin choosing the free the Genie instead of wishing to become a prince again actually has little to do with "It's the right thing" - the reason he does it is explained in a single sentence to Jasmine right before he makes the wish: "Jasmine, I do love you, but...I've gotta stop pretending to be something I'm not." That's the whole point of the film. Aladdin is a good guy on the inside, and that's what Jasmine loves him for, not whether he's a prince or not. He's learned by this point that it's not what he looks like or how he dresses that matters, but what's ''inside''. With this in mind, the only wish it would logical and fair for him to make would be to free the Genie, which is where the "right thing" comes in. |
| 636 | ** And as previously stated, it would've been pretty stupid to have the movie just come to a halt right before the ending so that the characters could play a rousing game of Hot Potato with the lamp. |
| 637 | [[/folder]] |
| 638 | [[folder: Genie-loophole-technicality-mumbo-jumbo]] |
| 639 | * This stems from all the queries above regarding hypothetical scenarios that bring Genie Rule #1 into play - if people seem to think that the Genie can't stand by and watch someone die if he has the means to prevent it, then why did he force Aladdin to use up one of his wishes when Aladdin nearly drowned? By this logic, wouldn't he have to have saved him anyway? |
| 640 | ** The idea that Genies can't allow someone to be harmed is just {{Fanon}}. Genie says that he can't be wished to kill someone. So he's bound by his powers to not be able to kill as a direct result of a wish. Aladdin was thrown into the sea, Genie is not responsible and he can only do magic if he interprets that a wish was made. The first instance of this is getting them out of the cave - he believed Aladdin had wished for it. |
| 641 | [[/folder]] |
| 642 | [[folder: Sure, let the thieving monkey into the cave, grand idea]] |
| 643 | * Why does the Cave of Wonders let Abu go and explore around inside it? He's shown to have a lot more vices than Aladdin does, and his more kindhearted moments are usually only because Aladdin pressures him into it or does a kind act first...Not to mention, Abu grabbing a jewel is the reason the cave eventually collapses, not Aladdin. And if any ''animal'' is allowed to go in, then that just begs the question of why Jafar didn't just send Iago to do the job. |
| 644 | ** Abu went in with Aladdin. The Cave might not have the dexterity to remove Abu without harming Aladdin. Also, would you trust Iago to not touch anything? I wouldn't. |
| 645 | ** I'd trust Iago more easily than Abu. Before the sequels, when has he ever indicated a desire to go against Jafar's plans in the slightest? |
| 646 | *** Yeah, but even if Iago is (or rather, was) loyal to Jafar, he's still a pretty greedy bird. It wouldn't have been too out-of-character for him to try and grab some of that treasure. |
| 647 | ** Gazeem was a ''murderer'' as well as a thief, so he was chomped the moment he set foot inside. Iago probably would've shared his fate. Abu was a jerk, but definitely not evil, so he was at least allowed in. The Guardian can always chomp them later if they screw up, as it happened. |
| 648 | ** There's also the fact that Abu didn't ''go'' in... he was hitching a ride with Al, hiding under his vest. Whether or not the Cave knew he was there or not is up for debate, but it wasn't like Abu strolled casually in, or sat on Al's shoulder waving cheerfully to the giant tiger head. Jafar could have had Iago hide under Al's vest as well, but Al might have questioned why he had to take a parrot with him... besides, Iago ''is'' a bit of a DirtyCoward. Seeing Gazeem killed by the Cave might have convinced him that ''he'' wasn't going in there, not when someone else could take the risk. |
| 649 | [[/folder]] |
| 650 | [[folder: Saying goodbye to Prince Abubu]] |
| 651 | * Bumping off 'Prince Ali' the night he arrives in Agrabah hardly seems like a sensible move on Jafar's part. He believes at this point that Aladdin is a real prince who has an entire kingdom who'll wonder where he is if he goes missing the night he arrives in a foreign country. Surely he wouldn't want to risk the diplomatic tensions and maybe all-out war that could result from this. |
| 652 | ** It supposedly took a long trip through the desert in order for "Prince Ali" to reach Agrabah - if anyone was sent there to seek him out, Jafar, as Sultan's royal vizier, could just as easily tell them all that Ali never arrived, leading them to assume that he got lost in the desert, was robbed, perished in a sandstorm, died of thirst, or what have you. The servants who came with him (if they were even locatable by Jafar thanks to being constructs of Genie's magic, could just as easily be hypnotized into believing the same thing. |
| 653 | ** The live-action version does fix this by having Jafar hold off on killing Ali until he's positive (or at least mostly positive) that he's actually Aladdin; apparently, he knows that the Cave of Wonders contained a magic carpet as the one Ali has, and so trying to drown him is his way of verifying his identity and figuring out where he's keeping the lamp. |
| 654 | [[/folder]] |
| 655 | [[folder: Origins of Abu]] |
| 656 | * Where did Aladdin get Abu from, if he's without a penny to his name and has to steal food to get by in life? |
| 657 | ** He stole him, maybe? |
| 658 | ** This was actually explained in the TV series, episode "Seems Like Old Crimes". Abu originally belonged to a trio of con artists named Minos, Fatima, and Aziz, whom Aladdin briefly worked with. Aladdin adopted Abu after the three got locked inside a MacGuffin during a treasure hunt. |
| 659 | [[/folder]] |
| 660 | [[folder: Wish refusal]] |
| 661 | * What happens if a genie refuses to grant his master's wish? Is there some cosmic force that pulls his finger into position and does the magic for him, or does the master's wish just come true out of nowhere despite the genie's refusal? If so, why didn't the Genie at least ''try'' to keep from granting Jafar's wishes in the end? |
| 662 | ** The genie can't refuse to grant the wish. It's just not something they're capable of. |
| 663 | ** If the storyboards for "Humiliate the Boy" are anything to go by, then yes, some Phenomenal Cosmic Power pulls their fingers into position and does the magic for them. |
| 664 | ** The answer becomes more clear on [[RewatchBonus a second viewing of the film]]. When Genie grants Jafar’s wish to be a sorcerer, he’s covering his eyes and turning away even as he points his finger, implying that he really doesn’t want to, but that he doesn’t have a say in the matter. |
| 665 | [[/folder]] |
| 666 | [[folder: Return to normal]] |
| 667 | * Why does everything return to normal after Jafar is sealed inside the lamp? There doesn't seem to be any good reason why his previous wish of being sultan would be undone, let alone relocating the palace, unraveling the carpet, and turning Abu into a toy. Indeed, the same headscratcher applies to the sequel: Why is all the damage Jafar did automatically undone when he's killed? |
| 668 | ** Most likely, there's some unspoken cosmic rule that prevents one genie from being the master of another genie, as that might give them a little ''too'' much power. If this were the case, then Jafar's transformation into a genie would've rendered his previous two wishes null and void, and so everything that had happened as a result of them was reversed. (Either that or Genie himself just fixed everything - since Jafar made his third wish, he's no longer obligated to serve him or further his own personal ends.) |
| 669 | ** As for how it happens in the sequel, well, Jafar is a Genie in that movie. And the only permanent effects of Genie magic are wish fulfillment. (Or something mistaken for wish fulfillment like escaping the cave) Genie's can warp reality, but unless their masters wished for it, it would wear off eventually. |
| 670 | [[/folder]] |
| 671 | [[folder: Sticking up for Iago]] |
| 672 | * Why doesn't Jafar try telling the Sultan that Iago doesn't like eating crackers? Unless he's doing it to get Iago fired up for when he eventually manages to take over...and even then, if I'd gone through it long enough, I'd start to get more upset with Jafar than I would with the sultan. |
| 673 | ** Because Jafar doesn't actually care about Iago. |
| 674 | ** Also, Jafar has been buttering up the Sultan for years, playing the loyal adviser to ingratiate himself with his ruler so that he never suspects him of treachery. And if the Sultan gets a kick out of stuffing stale crap into your pet's mouth, you let him. |
| 675 | [[/folder]] |
| 676 | [[folder: Escaping the cave]] |
| 677 | * Ok, what's up with that shot of Aladdin going vertically down escaping the lava into the giant treasure room? You'd think they'd remember climbing a sheer cliff on their way to the lamp. Is that just the cave of wonders trying to kill them? |
| 678 | ** Of course we all know the real reason that shot's there. To sell CGI to the public. |
| 679 | ** The carpet probably gave them a lift up the wall to the room where the lamp was. In fact, that might have even been the intention of it - only a diamond in the rough can enter the cave, so the only way to get to the lamp is by proving yourself pure-hearted enough to gain the carpet's trust, instead of being distracted by all of the other treasures in the room. (Which might also explain why "Touch nothing but the lamp" doesn't extend to cover Carpet, since he's there to help one get to the lamp, not distract from it like everything else.) |
| 680 | ** The whole place is collapsing at that point. And it's all magical, to begin with. Maybe it just shapeshifts in weird ways. |
| 681 | [[/folder]] |
| 682 | [[folder: No more freedom]] |
| 683 | * What would happen if someone wished that the genie would never be able to be wished free by anyone, ever? In the event that someone else were to try and free him, would that work? |
| 684 | ** It'd probably be possible to do, it'd just take two wishes- one to undo the restriction, one to free him. |
| 685 | [[/folder]] |
| 686 | [[folder: Ali's kingdom]] |
| 687 | * In the “Prince Ali” song, we learn that Aladdin’s regal alter-ego comes from a land called Ababwa. It seems strange that Jafar is the only person in Agrabah who questions the arrival of a wealthy prince from a country nobody’s heard of before who wants to marry the princess. Did Genie create an entire nation out of nothing for the sake of the masquerade, or give all of Agrabah FakeMemories to believe that Ababwa exists? |
| 688 | ** Probably that latter part. He ''has'' phenomenal cosmic powers, and note that when he adamantly lists a few things he can't/won't/isn't allowed to do, "altering memories" is conspicuously ''not'' on the list. |
| 689 | ** I really hope this isn’t the case, because [[FridgeHorror with this reasoning]], Aladdin and Jasmine’s relationship may qualify as some strange form of rape by deception. |
| 690 | ** Maybe Ababwa is an actual country. If so, how did the actual rulers react to hearing that a man who is certainly not part of their family plans to marry a foreign princess in their name? Did Genie give the rulers of Ababwa FakeMemories to believe that they had a son named Ali? Or is there a real Prince Ali of Ababwa, who was going to try and woo Jasmine, but Aladdin supplanted him? |
| 691 | ** Thankfully, we know a KillAndReplace situation is impossible because one of the limits on Genie’s power is that he cannot kill anyone. |
| 692 | ** It could be that no one cared enough to ask where Ababwa was because they were too busy fawning over Al's parade of servants, treasures, and whatnot. Even if they haven't heard of the country he's hailing from, they'll just assume it's so far off that they just haven't ever heard of it - where would anyone but a royal prince get even half the things Ali is shown to have otherwise? (And the sequel reveals that Aladdin was already a prince, by proxy. His father Cassim was known as the King of Thieves, thereby making Aladdin the Prince of Thieves.) |
| 693 | ** While I was in class the other day, one thing my professor told us is that the requirement for one to preside over a kingdom is not so much land as it is ''subjects''. For the first wish, the Genie created an entire parade of people who accept and revere Aladdin as their princely ruler; whether he has a physical land he rules over or not isn't really relevant. Also, in the live-action remake, Al has the Genie alter one of Jasmine's maps to designate a portion of land as being Ababwa, but it's still implied that nothing else but that map changed; later in the film, Jafar tells Ali that none of ''his'' maps have Ababwa marked on them. |
| 694 | |
| 695 | Even if the country was real. I don't think Aladdin's counterpart, Prince Ali.. was the first or even second son. But some distant person down the line who could never become the ruler of the country. |
| 696 | [[/folder]] |
| 697 | [[folder: Other genies]] |
| 698 | * So Jafar spends quite some time trying to get Genie's lamp out of the Cave of Wonders; he mentions it took him years of searching just to find the cave, and then he had to find someone who could enter it for him. This would make sense if this was the only magic lamp with a genie in existence. But in the TV series, we learn that there is at least 1 other genie, Eden, whose bottle was not stored away in some nigh-inaccessible cave. And who is to say there aren't even more genies whose lamps, bottles, etc. are also far easier to get your hands on than the one in the Cave of Wonders? Why didn't Jafar track down one of those? |
| 699 | ** Because he wasn't aware of them. |
| 700 | *** Or the Genie from the Cave of Wonders was (at the moment at least) the most powerful genie in the world, and Jafar only wants the absolute best. In the [[Literature/{{Aladdin}} original fairy tale]] the evil wizard who sends Aladdin to fetch the lamp from the cave already had a ring with a genie, but he still wanted the lamp since it contained an even stronger genie. |
| 701 | [[/folder]] |
| 702 | [[folder: Rules Insane Troll Logic-ing]] |
| 703 | * A bit of RulesLawyer-ing: what if someone wished: "I wished the Genies' Rules changed so that I may be able to wish for someone to fall in love, for the Genie to kill someone, and for him to resurrect the dead"? |
| 704 | ** Or rules insane troll logic perhaps. I'm sure the genie being the well-rounded genie he is would just say "No, I already told you I can't do that." Besides, if you're rules lawyering, you've just used your three wishes right there! |
| 705 | ** Also, if he has to obey these rules, that means that they're the result of a power even greater than him, or perhaps they're his physical limitation. If he had the power to change the rules, why would he obey said rules? Even taking to account that Genie is too kind to not play fair, why wouldn't Jafar change the rules in the sequel? I'm sure he'd be more than happy to be able to kill, and he showed multiple times that he ''can'' use his powers without Abis Mal saying anything. |
| 706 | [[/folder]] |
| 707 | [[folder: Questioning Aladdin further...again]] |
| 708 | * Earlier in the film, Jasmine is upset because she thinks Aladdin has been executed. When he takes her on the carpet ride as Prince Ali, however, she recognizes him. Why is it a headscratcher? Because at ''no point'' does she say "I thought you were dead" or anything like that. If she had previously thought he was dead, how come she never brings it up, or wonders why he's alive? |
| 709 | ** She may have wondered but didn't have a chance to bring it up. She tricks him into revealing he's a street rat, his response is that he was pretending just as she was when they met. At that point, she probably figures that, as a prince, he got an official pardon or was able to pay off the guards or something. |
| 710 | *** It's possible she just realized that Jafar had lied to her for whatever reason and decided not to press it. |
| 711 | *** Indeed, if we start with Jasmine assuming that the boy must have revealed his *own* royal status when he was being dragged away and gotten the guards to let him go, it's not so difficult to piece together the rest: since there was no boy to be released from the dungeon, Jafar made up a lie rather than reveal the embarrassing truth. |
| 712 | [[/folder]] |
| 713 | [[folder: Abusing the Genie for fun and profit...AGAIN]] |
| 714 | * When Aladdin makes his climactic choice between using his third wish to be with Jasmine or free the Genie, Jasmine and the Sultan are standing ''right there''. He could easily have wished to be a prince again, and then simply handed the lamp off to either one of them, who'd have three more wishes coming. Of course, this wouldn't have been half as heroic or satisfying. |
| 715 | ** Also, Jasmine or the Sultan might have been tempted to make two wishes of their own first. Or one of them makes three wishes and then passes the lamp to the other person. And hey, why not call in someone else? Passing the buck would have been admitting that the wishes were more valuable than Genie's freedom, and setting up a slippery slope to keep him from ever getting his freedom. |
| 716 | ** In any case, had he passed the lamp off to one of the others, he STILL would have gone back on his word to use the last wish to free Genie. A less than stellar way to start off a new life with the woman you love. |
| 717 | *** Wrong. See how the wish count keeps running even if someone else's wishes take place in between: after Jafar had stolen the lamp and made his three wishes, Aladdin could still claim the lamp back and have his last wish. [[note]] Which is actually wise from whoever designed the rules, because if it ''wasn't'' that way, if the count just resumed from the beginning every time you get the lamp, then someone could just make three wishes, give the lamp to someone else for a minute, get it back, make three more wishes, repeat. [[/note]] This means that he could have had Jasmine wish for him to be a prince, then take his lamp back and use his third wish to free the Genie, thus keeping his word. |
| 718 | ** Another thing to note is that when the Genie is freed, he gets full control over all his powers and no longer needs orders to do his magic. So why couldn't he have just turned Aladdin back into a prince as a sort of "thank you for freeing me"? |
| 719 | *** Genie isn't really the savviest person in the film. (He didn't realize what Al planned with Jafar's third wish for example or pull any LiteralGenie or JackassGenie on Jafar when he had the chance). He probably wouldn't have thought about it if it wasn't pointed out to him. |
| 720 | *** Jafar didn't really make any twistable wishes. Genie could have twisted them a bit, but not enough to actually make a significant difference, except for the first, which was the first. He could just be more specific next time. |
| 721 | *** Also, he didn't turn him into a prince because he didn't need to anymore. The Sultan had changed the law shortly before Genie's departure. Now that Jasmine had chosen him even though he was a street rat, the whole "turning you into a prince" deal was meaningless. |
| 722 | ** It was stated in the TV series/one of the sequels that the Genie became less powerful as a result of being free, basically to keep Al from becoming completely overpowered. He probably didn't have the ability to turn him back into a prince. |
| 723 | ** This has already been asked several times, so I'm going to repeat this answer: it would've brought the story to a halt having the characters decide to play Hot Potato with the lamp right before the ending. |
| 724 | *** As well as undermining the moral of the movie that it's ''who you are'' that really matters. |
| 725 | [[/folder]] |
| 726 | [[folder: Hey, Genie, pass me the lamp!]] |
| 727 | * Couldn't the Genie have picked up the lamp and given it to Aladdin during the finale? I was thinking that maybe he couldn't touch the lamp as long as he was bound to it, but he does so briefly after he saves Al from drowning. So is he only capable of handing the lamp to his current master? Alternatively, he was able to touch the lamp because it was wrapped in Al's turban at the time...but doesn't that mean he could've covered it with something else and then given it to him? |
| 728 | ** Probably not. Genie is a ''slave'' at this point, and he doesn't have the freedom to do what he wants. He was pretty clear that as long as he was Jafar's slave, he couldn't do anything to help Al -- at least not directly. Cheering for Al and smacking Iago seems to have been the biggest acts of rebellion he was able to do. |
| 729 | [[/folder]] |
| 730 | [[folder: Since Iago pulled a HeelFaceTurn in the sequel...]] |
| 731 | * ...why is he still on Jafar's side in other media (''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsI'', ''WesternAnimation/HouseOfMouse''...)? |
| 732 | ** Likely because he's most recognizable as Jafar's partner in crime, seeing as the sequels aren't terribly popular and a lot of people probably haven't seen them. It's just like how Prince Adam is usually portrayed as the Beast in other media even though that curse was lifted at the end of his own movie. |
| 733 | ** Because Agrabah's story in Kingdom Hearts 1 was loosely based on the first movie where Iago was definitely a villain. Kingdom Hearts 2 adapts Return of Jafar and accordingly portrays Iago's HeelFaceTurn. |
| 734 | [[/folder]] |
| 735 | [[folder: All this for a useless lamp?]] |
| 736 | * So, Jafar tells Aladdin before he enters the cave that he's going in specifically to retrieve a lamp. And unlike in the live-action version, Aladdin's life isn't being threatened to make him enter the cave. Wouldn't he find it suspicious that he's being asked to do something so dangerous just to retrieve such a mundane object? |
| 737 | ** He probably realizes that the old man is some kind of a wizard and that the lamp is likely magical as well, but what of it? He doesn't expect to be able to use it, and in his mind, it's a fair deal - the wizard gets his magical artifact, and Al gets paid handsomely for it. |
| 738 | [[/folder]] |
| 739 | [[folder: Vizier outranking royalty?]] |
| 740 | * When Aladdin is being arrested, Jasmine orders the guards to release him. Razoul refused, saying he was ordered by Jafar, the Royal Vizier, to arrest the street rat. Since Jasmine is the princess (a.k.a. Sultan's daughter), shouldn't she outrank Jafar? |
| 741 | ** The Vizier acts in Sultan's name, so when he speaks the Sultan speaks. Being given a specific order by the Vizier is the same as being given a direct order by the Sultan himself. Basically, Jasmine is not in the direct chain of command here and is not in a position to override the orders here, she'd need to go find her dad and have him override Jafar's orders. |
| 742 | [[/folder]] |
| 743 | [[folder:Leaving Iago behind]] |
| 744 | * When Jafar posed as an old man to bring Aladdin to the Cave of Wonders, why didn't Jafar bring Iago with him? I don't think Aladdin knew who Jafar and Iago were yet... did he? Iago could have taken the lamp from Aladdin then. |
| 745 | ** He ''did'' bring him...and used him to make his fake hunch/hump under his cloak. Iago pops out while they're turned away from Aladdin right at the beginning of Jafar's spiel to say while sweating profusely "Jafar, can ya hurry it up? I'm dyin' here..." and Jafar smacks him back inside. Presumably, Iago either wasn't interested in risking it, or Jafar didn't see much reason to bother since he could do it well enough himself (he has a habit of not thinking ''everything'' through after all. That's what gets him trapped in the lamp) if Iago moved to try and swipe the lamp while Aladdin was dangling it might drop right back into the cave (notably Jafar has Aladdin ''throw it to him'', which means it would be moving towards him and out of the cave, and Aladdin goes further and manages to ''hand'' it to him, so much safer). |
| 746 | [[/folder]] |
| 747 | [[folder:Genie as talking animals]] |
| 748 | * In the "Prince Ali" number, Genie briefly takes the forms of a tiger cub and a goat... that talk. Those are probably the only two of Prince Ali's "possessions" that can't be explained by mundane means. Why does no one question this? How widely known is the existence of magic in this world anyway? |
| 749 | ** It was discussed in a previous Headscratcher, "Talking About The Rugman", that magic seems to be known, but not easily accessible to everyone, judging by the lack of reaction to the much more flashy flying carpet. Heck, the Arabian Nights song even says "hop a carpet and fly" so if we take that seriously flying carpets are known too, so why not talking animals? Though admittedly, this puts a hole in my logic or at least thins it a bit, Iago purposefully keeps his beak shut on talking like a proper human can in the movie, and corrects himself when he slips, and there is the mysterious anthropomorphic animal society episode in the series. Still, it might be that talking animals, and magic in general, is known to some, but not ''everything'' about it unless you study it, like how a lot of people know about science and technology, but not everybody knows all of the things it can and can't do, and can be amazed, yet not completely shocked that it can do this or that. Or you could use stage magic too, come to think of it, as another comparison. That, or people were more caught up in the show (either by their own excitement or Genie doing something subtle with his magic) to question it. |
| 750 | ** Genie only takes the tiger cub form when talking to a couple of kids. Presumably, the adults aren't looking, and the kids are young enough that the weirdness of the situation is overruled by the "OMG a talking tiger! Cool!" factor. |
| 751 | [[/folder]] |
| 752 | [[folder: A Diamond NOT in the Rough]] |
| 753 | * Assuming "Diamond in the Rough" means JerkWithAHeartOfGold (after all, Aladdin is NOT without his flaws), what if there was someone in Agrabah who, by comparison, was an all-out NiceGuy, maybe even suffers from ChronicHeroSyndrome (assuming Jafar was in disguise)? Basically, someone who would go in, not be tempted by the vast treasure, grab the lamp, and then deliver it without expecting anything in return. |
| 754 | ** That's not what "diamond in the rough" means. "Diamond in the rough" refers to someone who is of more worth than their status or position would lead you to think they are. You don't expect a penniless thief to be as selfless as Aladdin, just like you don't expect to find a diamond by rifling through the dirt. The merchant in the movie's prologue explains this, noting that Aladdin and the Genie's lamp were alike because they were both more than what they seemed, which he then likens to "a diamond in the rough". |
| 755 | ** Ignoring that, Jafar wasn't looking for a diamond in the rough just on a whim. The Cave of Wonders says that someone of hidden worth is the only one that can enter it. |
| 756 | [[/folder]] |
| 757 | [[folder: Why Can't The Sultan Help with Poverty In His Kingdom?]] |
| 758 | * During "One Jump Ahead" we find there are a lot of poor and starving people (including some kids) in Aghriba. Since the Sultan is always portrayed as TheGoodKing, why doesn't he do anything to help? |
| 759 | ** He’s also portrayed as a bit of a scatterbrained airhead, and poverty is practically guaranteed to exist regardless of how good or involved a leader tries to be. |
| 760 | [[/folder]] |
| 761 | [[folder: Why is the Genie good?]] |
| 762 | * The Genie has been granting wishes to countless people since the beginning of human history. He’s probably served people from all walks of life, with all sorts of different views on how things should be. I’d expect him to be the most morally neutral character imaginable. Why is he such a good guy? |
| 763 | ** For one thing, his lamp has been under the tight security system know as Cave of Wonders. An environment accessible only to a Diamond in the rough. And even then the aforementioned individual has to be tested with the temptation of greed and virtue of self control. However the lamp got into that cave (or how the cave itself was created in the first place), it was clearly done as means to prevent the lamp from falling into the wrong hands. As for Genie himself, well, given that he wants to be free from his lamp, he's just trying to win over his masters pity by being the kind of guy who almost ANYONE would warm up to. |
| 764 | [[/folder]] |
| 765 | [[folder: Controversial Line]] |
| 766 | * In the part where Aladdin says "Good Tiger, take off and go!", which is infamous for being mistaken for something too taboo for a Disney movie, the " take off and go!" part is quieter. Is he whispering to the carpet or Genie as a means to imply "Don't worry about me. I got this." as if one of them was about to intervene with Rajah's move on Al? Small detail sure, but in lue of the controversy surrounding that line, it's totally worth mentioning. |
| 767 | [[/folder]] |
| 768 | [[folder: The things one can't wish for]] |
| 769 | * Why exactly ''can't'' the genie grant the three things he lists (no killing people, no bringing people BackFromTheDead, no making people fall in love)? He does sort of explain the second one (he technically ''can'' do it, it's just really gross and unpleasant, so he refuses), but what about the other 2? You might say the "no killing people" one is just [[ThouShaltNotKill because he has a moral objection]] to it due to being a good genie, however, the Jafar genie in the sequel can't kill people either, so that's not it, and we don't get any hint of an explanation for why he can't make people fall in love |
| 770 | ** Off the top, Genie isn’t omnipotent, none of the genies seen in the entire franchise are capable of doing literally everything. Whatever mechanisms govern their existence and magic have limits. For resurrecting the dead, that one is pretty easy to understand: Genie’s magic could reanimate the corpse, and probably give it a crude facsimile of life, but their soul has already departed and is beyond the reach of any magic, and so the person cannot truly be brought back (hence Genie’s rather summarize visual explanation of himself, zombified and unnatural). Love, well, a person’s selfhood in general, would also be an exprolation of the former. Magic cannot affect souls, so the same way it can’t yoink a soul from the afterlife, it also cannot alter a soul. The only one that really seems relatively arbitrary is the ‘no killing’ bit. We can only speculate, but considering Jafar is under the belief he can circumvent it if Abis-Mal wished him free in RoJ, I would suspect it’s a geas of sorts. In exchange for rather intense restrictions (PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER!!! Itty-bitty living space…) the lamp-bound genies are far more powerful. As for why murder in particular? I would hazard a guess that was to avoid the Genies having power to make good on threats. |
| 771 | ** Doylist answer: It’s a Disney movie, and there’s no way they would have a hero murder, mind-rape, or play with life and death. Plus, without those rules, it makes the story important. Genie cannot force anybody to fall in love, and neither can he resurrect the dead, so Aladdin has to woo Jasmine himself, and if anybody dies they’re dead for good. Even in a fantastical setting, death still needs to mean something. |
| 772 | [[/folder]] |
| 773 | [[folder: Why not just attack Jafar?]] |
| 774 | * During the initial scene when Jafar first seizes the lamp and makes himself Sultan, Aladdin... jumps off the balcony where he was standing next to Jasmine and the Sultan onto the Carpet, then flies up to Genie and pleads with him not to do what he knows Genie has no choice but to do? Why? Jafar is literally standing a few feet away from him at the start and is, at this point, just a scrawny old man that an active, younger fellow like Aladdin could easily just physically beat up. Jasmine and the Sultan don't have any idea how any of this crazy magic stuff works (and aren't exactly physically imposing themselves) but what's Aladdin's excuse for not just punching the guy's lights out before he can make any more wishes? |
| 775 | ** Aladdin really isn't the kind of person who picks a fight. He mostly tries to give Razoul and his men the slip to avoid arrest, and mostly verbally told off Prince Achmed for trying to whip the children. The only time he truly resorts to physical violence is in the climax when Jafar official pushed him to his breaking point, and even then he used a SWORD instead of his own strength. If Al isn't used to harming anyone, he probably isn't to sure how effective it would be. Plus Jafar isn't THAT OLD, he's like in his 40s or 50s, and most men are still in good shape at that age. Jafar could still very likely say "I wish I had the strength of ten thousand men!" before Al took him down. |
| 776 | ** He also didn't know for sure that Jafar was Genie's new master. (It's not like Jafar was holding the lamp in this scene) All he knew was that the lamp was no longer under his turban (Clearly he forgot that he left it under a pillow in his room after having a fall-out with Genie.) And Jafar was using Genie to uproot the palace and place it on a mountaintop. That's not enough evidence for Al to lose confidence in the heat of the moment. Genie's "I've got a new master now" line was the only thing that confirmed to Aladdin that there was nothing he could do to convince Genie to disregard Jafar's orders. |
| 777 | *** And even if Al DID know Jafar was officially Genie's new master, he probably thought he still had control of Genie since he hasn't made his third wish yet. Unaware that Jafar's possession of the lamp overrides Aladdin's unfinished bidding. |
| 778 | [[/folder]] |
| 779 | |
| 780 | [[folder: From Sorcerer To Genie]] |
| 781 | * Why do Jafar's EvilSorcerer powers seem to disappear when he becomes a genie? All of the things he changed magically [[NoOntologicalInertia suddenly change back to normal]] (The rug is fixed, Abu changes back into a real monkey, etc). You'd think becoming a genie would be additive to his sorcerer powers. After all, he said "Make me an all powerful genie", not "Make me a genie ''instead of'' a sorcerer." |
| 782 | ** As mentioned earlier, there's very likely the possibility that genies cannot be in servitude of other genies. Once Jafar turned into a genie himself, his previous wishes were nullified. And even taking that out, Jafar can't be a genie INSTEAD of a sorcerer, because sorcerers are magic welding-humans, and genies are supernatural spirits. Two things that really can't come hand-in-hand. |
| 783 | [[/folder]] |
| 784 | |
| 785 | ---- |
| 786 | |
| 787 | [[WMG: '''Original Story''']] |
| 788 | |
| 789 | * ''Why'' would the sorcerer ever allow the ring to leave his possession, let alone lend it to someone without telling them what it is? |
| 790 | ** The cave was dangerous. The sorcerer believed Aladdin would not reach the lamp without it. |
| 791 | ** What's more, though the ring had its own Genie, that one was decidedly less powerful than the one in the lamp. Before he even realized the lamp ''had'' a genie inside, Aladdin mostly ordered the genie in the ring to bring him and his mother sumptuous food on fancy silver platters, and relatively minor stuff like that, which seemed to be the summit of Ring Genie's abilities. This is made clear when the evil sorcerer steals the lamp and has Lamp Genie transport Aladdin's entire palace to Africa; Aladdin eventually remembers he has the ring and requests that Ring Genie bring back his palace. Ring Genie says flat out that he doesn't have the power to do that; a feat of that spectacle is the province of Lamp Genie. But Ring Genie was able to transport Aladdin ''to'' the palace's location. |
| 792 | The sorcerer wanted the most powerful mystical talisman- not a second-rate Genie. |
| 793 | * Why doesn't the sorcerer help Aladdin out of the cave? Instead, he allows Aladdin (and the lamp) to remain trapped inside. Aladdin doesn't know the lamp is magical, so why doesn't the sorcerer just help Aladdin out and accept the lamp ''' that Aladdin was going to give to him, anyway'''? Even If Aladdin tried to keep the lamp to himself, the sorcerer could either give him a reasonable reward in exchange or just kill him. |
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