Line #108 Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet


1	'''As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked [[Administrivia/SpoilersOff as per policy.]] Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.'''
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3
4	[[index]]
5	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet1984''
6	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreetPart2FreddysRevenge''
7	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet3DreamWarriors''
8	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet4TheDreamMaster''
9	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet5TheDreamChild''
10	* ''Headscratchers/FreddysDeadTheFinalNightmare''
11	* ''Headscratchers/WesCravensNewNightmare''
12	* ''Headscratchers/FreddyVsJason''
13	* ''Headscratchers/ANightmareOnElmStreet2010''
14	* ''Headscratchers/FreddyVsJasonVsAsh''
15	[[/index]]
16
17	[[foldercontrol]]
18
19	[[folder:Freddy's Fighting Skill]]
20	* Throughout the franchise, Freddy shows ''some'' martial arts prowess while in dreams, where he doesn't actually have to know how to do the move, since he's a reality warper. And for all the major installments, in the real world he can't even handle untrained teenage girls and gets severely hindered by homemade booby traps, as you'd expect since both before and after he died, he never killed anyone fighting back. So in ''Freddy vs Jason'', how the fuck does he manage to not only endure blows from, but also defeat ''Jason Vorhees'', who becomes stronger after each resurrection, and was punching people's heads off two resurrections ago? Freddy jumps and flips and kick around like Jackie Chan, and keeps fighting after being thrown dozens of yards and losing his arm. Does this fall under the MST3KMantra, since the movie would be boring if the final fight was a CurbStompBattle in Jason's favor, or did he train with young Bruce Lee when he was alive and not murdering children, and just now remembered how to use his skills?
21	** Freddy may have figured out a way to tap into his victims' dream powers, same as Alice could do, after having battled her twice. It took a while, but by ''Freddy vs Jason'' he managed to emulate the powers of Rick, Kincaid, Taryn, ''and'' Kristen, plus who knows how many others, to hold his own via enhanced strength and agility.
22	[[/folder]]
23
24	[[folder: Why would Freddy WANT to be in the real world?]]
25	* In a couple of movies (Revenge and Dream Child), Freddy attempts to return to the real world through possessing a body. Given the amount of power he possesses in the dream world, why would he want to leave?
26	** He is somewhat limited in the dream realm, mostly because it's a dream realm, people have found ways to stay out. Plus, his dream powers have explicit limitations, to the point fully half the films are about him trying to RulesLawyer his way around them. Being in the real world means he has the freedom to stalk and kill anyone he can physically find, like any other slasher villain.
27	*** Judging from the desperate way he shouts "I'm real!" in the remake, it may be that he doesn't feel much as a dream ghost, or at the least doesn't feel real to himself. It may be a constant source of psychological pain to him that he doesn't have real flesh and blood body.
28	[[/folder]]
29
30	[[folder:What happened to Alice?]]
31	* She survived the fifth movie and then was never mentioned again. What happened?
32	** What's important is that she and her son survived. If she had returned, it would most likely have been only a matter of time before she ended up meeting the same fate as Nancy, more for predictable writerly reasons than in-universe ones. (Originally the protagonist of "Freddy's Dead" was going to turn out to ''be'' her son, but that plan was scrapped.) I'm glad that Freddy has at least one long-time major enemy in this continuity with a record two wins/escapes to zero losses over him. It's a refreshing change. Let her live her life in peace, I say.
33	** She and Jacob have appeared in several ExpandedUniverse stories (which tend to ignore each other, so she's died twice); they are Innovations ''Nightmares on Elm Street'' comics, the Black Flame book ''Perchance to Dream'', the Wildstorm series ''ComicBook/FreddyVsJasonVsAsh: The Nightmare Warriors'', and "Dead Highway, Lost Roads" (a short story from ''The Nightmares on Elm Street: Freddy's Krueger's Seven Sweetest Dreams'').
34	[[/folder]]
35
36	[[folder:What is Freddy's pastime?]]
37	* Ok, so Freddy kills people when they're sleeping. So, what does he do all day when people AREN'T sleeping?
38	** Obviously coming up with oneliners he can say when he kills someone, that and playing with the power glove.
39	** He "lives" solely in whatever place people's consciousnesses go when they dream. "Time" may not be a concept that applies to Freddy, "downtime" doubly so.
40	[[/folder]]
41
42	[[folder:Why does Freddy need the glove?]]
43	* I mean, he can do pretty much anything he wants in the dream world. Why would he need any kind of weapon? Wouldn't he be able to just turn his fingers into claws if he really wanted to? Wouldn't he be able to turn his entire body into a set of claws if he really wanted to?
44	** Why does Freddy need a hat? Why does Freddy wear a red and green sweater? Why doesn't Freddy have perfect skin and flowing hair, when he can take any form? Because that's how he likes it, I guess. He used the glove when he was alive, even though I'm sure there were other weapons available. Could have used a gun, or a chainsaw, or a hammer. Instead he made a cool glove. He's always been more about style than body count. The glove is stylish. It's RuleOfCool meets RuleOfScary.
45	*** Besides, his outfit [[MemeticMutation makes him instantly recognizable]].
46	*** Also [[Film/TheDarkKnight he may like to savor the little moments]] when using his knife glove.
47	** Freddy has obviously grown attached to his favorite murder weapon, just as people sometimes become fond of the power tools, vacuum cleaner, teddy bear, etc. that they've had for a long time. This was what he was using to kill people since long before he died--or a replica of it, anyway. He's used to it and he enjoys it.
48	** Because it was the parents' symbol that they used to identify Freddy. Remember, Nancy's mom retrieved the gloves after the burning, and kept them in her own boiler room. She shows them to Nancy as proof that they killed Freddy. She saw them as a symbol of comfort, and viewing the gloves seemed to reassure her that he was dead... Naturally, adopting the gloves as his weapon of choice would incite an extra level of fear.
49	** Because is part of his identity, in the same way a machete is part of Jason's, and a chainsaw part of Leatherface's.
50	[[/folder]]
51
52	[[folder: Staying asleep]]
53	* How is it the people in this film are able to stay asleep with Freddy haunting their dreams? I mean, there are several instances where the characters are spooked by something in their dream, and they wake up, so why isn't that the case with everything else?
54	** Oftentimes, characters awake from Freddy's dreams by something in the real world (an alarm clock, another character waking them, etc), so presumably a person can be woken up from Freddy's dreams by external stimuli as easily as any other dream. Other times, like with Carlos or Keia, this happens when Freddy is just starting to stalk them, so he needs to scare them more before he has the power to keep them in the dream no matter how much they desire to wake up.
55	[[/folder]]
56
57	[[folder:Why did Nancy pulling Freddy out of the Dream World not work in the first Nightmare, but it worked in Freddy's Dead?]]
58	* Was it because Nancy's mother was asleep and Freddy was able to go back into the Dream World, whereas in Freddy's Dead, there was nobody close enough who was asleep?
59	** You're all thinking too hard. Freddy's using magic, not science. With no laws of reality to weigh him or the [[WordOfGod "dream demons"]] down. They can pretty much change the rules whenever they want.
60	*** They're still rules. If Freddy could just break out and kill whoever he wanted when he damn well felt like it, it mostly defeats the entire purpose of parts 3-5.
61	** And the reason Freddy revives himself in a different way each time is because the previous thing failed. If I was Freddy, I would definitely rule that possessing someone was a bad idea after Elm Street 2.
62	** Remember that Nancy didn't kill Freddy when she brought him out. She tried TalkingTheMonsterToDeath, Freddy tried to tackle her and he vanished in mid-jump. Though this was presented as a victory for her when it happened, in light of the TwistEnding and the sequels, Freddy probably just slipped back into the dream world. He's probably not "stable" in the real world: once he's human you have to kill him fast before he disappears again.
63	*** Actually, it was a victory for her. It wasn't that he was weak in the human world, it was that without fear he has no power to actually hurt his victims. That's why he spends the first few visits/nights scaring them until he has the power to physically hurt them. When Nancy took away the energy she gave him, she became someone untouchable to him. Thus he had no power to manifest for many years until he regained enough strength to hunt the remaining Elm Street kids. But by that point Nancy is an adult and has a real fear of Freddy successfully killing the kids under her protection, giving her a weakness he could exploit to be able to finally kill her.
64	*** Wouldn't this be jossed? Freddy returned just minutes after his supposed 'defeat' in the first movie and kidnaps Nancy and all her friends. Also, you're forgetting about the entirety of Part 2 with that 'he had no power to manifest for many years' bit.
65	[[/folder]]
66
67	[[folder:What are the limits of Freddy's powers?]]
68	* If he is limited to Springwood...
69	** Is it because he is a "local" monster, and therefore known only to the people of this town?
70	** Can he attack visitors to the town, like someone staying at a motel at Springwood between Point A and Point B? Would they only be vulnerable if they'd heard the legend of Fred Krueger?
71	*** It depends on which point in the series it is, since Freddy keeps finding new ways to go after people. During the first three movies, if your parents weren't involved in torching him, you're safe. During the fourth and fifth movie, you're probably safe as long as you're not friends with Alice Johnson (since, long story short, he was using her as a focal point and going after people she knew). During ''Freddy vs Jason,'' you're probably safe as long as you've never heard of Freddy, but if you do know about him, you might be dead. If you go to Springwood at all during the sixth movie then you're probably screwed no matter what, since by that point he seems to control everything within its borders.
72	** Why don't people move the hell away?
73	*** I don't see why he would be limited to Springwood, just the people who know about him, so moving away wouldn't help them at all, it would only help more people find out about him, making more people vulnerable.
74	*** He's bound to Springwood according to ''Freddy's Dead,'' though ''Freddy vs Jason'' contradicts that (the heroes of [=FvJ=] never tested their theory that running wouldn't help, so they could just be wrong, or maybe once you've already been targeted leaving won't help anymore). Going by ''Freddy's Dead,'' there's a mystical boundary in place, though hitchhiking in Maggie's body allowed him cross over it. As for people leaving, by ''Freddy's Dead'' (set "10 years from now," which could mean 2001 or 2021 depending on how you read it) Springwood's become a ghost town save for the adult victims who've gone insane and are pretty much Freddy's puppets. I don't know if you can save yourself by leaving town, but a lot of people must have tried to have reduced Springwood to that state.
75	* If he isn't...
76	** Can he attack people who have never heard of him?
77	*** At first he could only attack the children of the parents who killed him. A plot point in the fourth movie allowed him to start killing all the Springwood kids, but he was stuck in the town until the sixth movie.
78	** Is there any true defense against him aside from fatal familial insomnia or buttloads of caffeine?
79	*** Hypnocil.
80	*** Yeah, you can either keep taking hypnocil (an in-universe dream suppressant that causes long-term brain damage) or fight him and win. Or maybe just never go to Springwood, if you weren't born there. Otherwise, if he gets into your dreams, sooner or later you're toast.
81	** Why doesn't he infect everyone's nightmares?
82	*** The rules. At first, he can only target the children of his killers (who mostly live on Elm Street). Then, because absorbing Kristen's powers gave him a loophole, he could target all the kids of Springwood. Then, because Maggie's arrival in Springwood gave him yet another loophole, he could go after everyone in the world (he died before he could really take advantage of that upgrade). The movie series is mostly the story of Freddy trying to find new ways of getting around the rules.
83	** What "rules", if any, does he[=/=]must he follow? What imposes these rules?
84	*** Well, the rules limit who he can target, though he does find ways to get around them and find new victims. If you die in a dream you die in real life, though the cause of death isn't always the same. If Freddy's grabbed by a dreamer and then they wake up, he's pulled out too: when he's in the waking world, he has a few minor powers but he's more or less human and can be beaten and killed. He takes people's souls when he kills them, which gives him at least some of their memories and knowledge (which he's only too happy to use to taunt or trick their surviving friends) and which also gradually makes him more powerful (which mostly means he's a more powerful dream-warper, and he can influence waking reality in more drastic ways, such as making the rest of the world forget that his victims ever existed). And his effective range for new victims seems to be Springwood itself (though once you've become his target, leaving town might be useless).
85	*** As for where the rules come from, good question. Whatever it is that allowed him to come back for revenge also puts mystical limits on just how he can go about getting revenge. The series as a whole says he's the guardian of the gate to the world of nightmares, chosen right before he died by the "dream demons" to serve as their emissary. The rules must be whatever metaphysical rules someone who's put in that role and given those powers has to follow. Freddy, of course, is constantly trying to RulesLawyer his way around those limits so he can kill more and more people.
86	** Would Freddy have trouble with a lucid dreamer?
87	*** Someone who has the sense to see the obvious nightmare, say, "[[YourMindMakesItReal I have a loaded M4]]", and just unload on him from a distance.
88	*** Yes and no. Lucid dreaming is brought up briefly in the first film (the "dream skills" scene), and becomes a bit more prominent in ''Dream Warriors'' and ''Dream Master'', but in the first film it's never brought up as a way to defeat Freddy (and the performances of most of the lucid dreamers against Freddy in 3 and 4 lends to this). In the metaphysical sense, the harder you fight against a monster like Freddy, the more energy you give him, and the more powerful he becomes. Acknowledging his existence at all, let alone thinking of him in terms of a BigBad to be beaten to a pulp, plays right into his hands. Nancy turning her back on Freddy and denying his ability to hurt her ''should'' have worked in the first film (and would have, if not for ExecutiveMeddling). On the other hand, ''Dream Warriors'' is pretty much all about the power of lucid dreaming and the ability to alter the dream to suit your desires, and give yourself the power to defeat Freddy. Unfortunately, it fails most of the time, because Freddy is a much more experienced and powerful lucid dreamer, and the kids lack the experience and mental discipline to keep hold of their lucid dreams.
89	*** On that note, that might be why we never see Freddy go after very young kids, only teenagers. Kids would have an easier time lucid dreaming as well as Reality Warping due to their active imaginations and thus would be powerful enough to take on Freddy on their own terms, while teenagers would have much greater difficulty doing anything significant while lucid dreaming.
90	** It seems to go:
91	- Freddy can only target the descendants of the lynch mob.
92	- Freddy kills most of the descendants, so he uses Alice's ability to pull people into her dreams to get around this and keep killing.
93	- Freddy's Dead has Freddy use his own child to be able to get out of the limited space in Springwood and keep killing. Perhaps it also removed the lynch mob limitation in the process.
94	- Now Freddy can kill any kids who are sufficiently scared of him.
95	- Figuring this out, the adults use Hypnocil and suppression of knowledge of Freddy to remove any fear of Freddy, requiring bringing Jason in to revitalize that fear.
96
97	In short, Freddy has been getting around what limitations he has throughout the series. Not that those limitations are entirely consistent anyway.
98	[[/folder]]
99
100	[[folder:Why does no one ever just pull Freddy out of the dream world and imprison him?]]
101	* Freddy is ''far'' weaker in the real world than the dream world, and much less dangerous so why did no one ever think to pull Freddy out of the dream world, beat him into a pulp, and then lock him up? I'm not saying it'd work, just no one ever suggests pulling him into the real world and locking him up when its clear killing him doesn't stick. Or did I miss something? This isn't about it ''working'' its about why no one ever thought about doing it once its revealed you can pull him into the real world.
102	** Freddy's burns are so severe, it's unlikely he could survive for long if you did trap him in the material world and lock him up somewhere. That's assuming he couldn't just vanish into the dream world at will, which is what's always happened when he's been temporarily dragged into reality before.
103	*** The reason is that adults are useless. Pulling Freddy into the real world and locking him up is exactly what Nancy tries in the first movie. Her goal wasn't to kill him, it was for her father to arrest him which is part of why she was stalling so hard. It fails hard but that was the game plan. We don't know that killing him in the real world won't stick either. If Freddy's Dead is considered Canon (and I've never heard otherwise) and to a lesser extent Freddy vs Jason which even if you count his wink at the end as confirmation that he survived there is nothing about Freddy's real world incarnations that suggests his disembodied head is at all dangerous. To the above, he's only been dragged into reality twice (three if you count [=FvJ=]) the first time he slipped back through the sleeping mother, the second and third times it worked like a charm. He'd probably survive as well, he doesn't seem to be in pain from his burns any of the times he comes into the real world.
104	*** Yes, Nancy specifically calls her father come over and "arrest the guy when I bring him out." But, because her mother barred all the windows and locked the door, he can't get in, so Nancy pretty much has to try and fight Freddy to the death. It doesn't really work, but it at least proves that Freddy is somewhat vulnerable in the real world. Of course, given that Freddy was burned to death already and it didn't take, it's likely that he just can't be killed, simply slipping back into the dream world whenever his physical body dies. Locking him up would seem a viable option, but you really logistically can't keep him contained for all time. Eventually, he'd get out, or get "dead," with pretty much the same result as defeating him at the end of a Nightmare on Elm Street movie: temporary peace until he gets his shit back together and starts all over again.
105	[[/folder]]
106
107	[[folder: What happens to Freddy in Jason X]]
108	* Since there is no longer an earth, does he go to other planets and invade their dreams?
109	** Depending on what you think of the ending of ''Freddy vs. Jason'', [[AndIMustScream he's hitchhiking in a never-sleeping, never-talking]] Jason Voorhees.
110	** Assuming Jason X is canon to Freddy AND Freddy's Dead is non canon (I know it happens ten years from now but given that the Earth is still there it's clearly prior to the events of Jason X) or he recovers from that at some point.
111	** The easiest answer is that he's on a ship or space station. By Nightmare 5 Freddy could presumably pop up in the dreams of Alice and Jacob as the power is genetic. Freddy vs Jason suggests that he can jump into anybody who fears him enough. He's essentially the boogeyman at that point. As long as someone out there believes and spreads the word Freddy lives. Given the irony of the series it's entirely possible that there is a space station named Elm out there. Just like the ships are named after monsters.
112	** Since the franchise got a reboot after ''Film/FreddyVsJason'', there's a few options, pick whichever is most amusing to you:
113	*** [[AndIMustScream Freddy is trapped in the subconscious of the never-sleeping Jason Voorhees, who spends 400 years as a]] HumanPopsicle [[KilledOffForReal before eventually burning up completely in the atmosphere of Earth II.]]
114	*** ''ComicBook/FreddyVsJasonVsAsh'' states that Freddy is stripped of his power by the Dream Demons after his schemes [[YouHaveFailedMe fail one time too many]], and he's sucked into the Deadite dimension to spend eternity with ''those'' no-class, no-style assholes.
115	*** Freddy is stranded in the dreamscape of the blasted, uninhabitable wasteland where Springwood used to be on EarthThatWas.
116	*** Freddy hitches a ride on people fleeing Earth and sets up shop on Springwood Station or ''Elm Ship''.
117	[[/folder]]
118
119	[[folder: Grab the crucifix]]
120	* Why does almost noone actually use the crucifix or other religious symbols to ward off Freddy? We know that holy water at least works on him. I think I saw someone holding the crucifix once or twice, but that's it.
121	** Because it's never actually suggested by anybody and on account of him not being a vampire nobody instinctively goes for it. It probably wouldn't work anyway, the case of Holy Water working on him was on his physical body during a burial, inside the dreamscape what works and doesn't work is entirely tied to the battle of wills between Freddy and his victim.
122	** Despite Freddy's iconic rhyme, they tried using a Crucifix and Holy water in the real world in part 3, it didn't work at all. It's likely it would be completely useless in the Dream World, where Freddy has almost absolute power.
123	[[/folder]]
124
125	[[folder: Why not just kill the parents instead?]]
126	* I understand that Freddy wants the parents to suffer by killing their children, but why not kill the people who were responsible for his death? Yes, the parents will be miserable and angry for the rest of their lives, but I don't see that being good enough for Freddy.
127	** Well, Freddy was specifically a ''child'' murderer. So the teenagers are closer to his preferred victim type. And which is more sadistic: just killing the people who killed you, or killing their children, proving that even after your death they can't protect their kids from you, that they've failed, and there's nothing they can do to stop you?
128	*** Plus this means that the adults have to feel the pain of burying their own child(ren), ''again''. Freddy would want them to feel that pain, in retribution for killing him.
129	** You'd have to ask the Dream Demons. As much as Freddy manages to manipulate the rules he was specifically given the power to kill the children of the people who massacred him. Going after them directly may not be an option he has open to him.
130	** Plus, throughout the series, the adults don't even seem to be willing to accept that Freddy can even return after his death. Since, depending on which movie you're watching, Freddy needs fear to be able to come back and kill people, he might not be able to touch the parents due to their complete lack of fear.
131	*** In response to the two ideas above this: but Freddy killed Nancy's mother (twice (?)) in the very first movie and Nancy's dad in the third. It might not be so much that he can't kill adults, more that he doesn't want to the majority of the time. He prefers younger victims.
132	*** Nancy's parents were probably among the very few adults who ''weren't'' sufficiently in denial to be immune to Freddy's attacks by the time they died. Her mother's drinking at the end of the first film may have been an attempt to block out what the repeated killings and Nancy's own evidence was forcing her to believe, and her father explicitly ''admits'' it's Freddy whom he's facing when confronted by the animated skeleton.
133	** Even when he was alive, Freddy enjoyed killing kids anyway. Revenge on the parents provided him with a handy way to come back from the dead, but ''how'' he takes that revenge is to keep on doing what he loves.
134	[[/folder]]
135
136	[[folder: What if a parent in Elm Street decides to have another kid?]]
137	* Let's say Freddy kills a teen, the mom later becomes pregnant. Would Freddy go after the baby?
138	** Almost definitely, when we look at the first and third movie Freddy is actually attacking the parents through the children. It's not until Nightmare 4 where he's really in it just for the evulz.
139	[[/folder]]
140
141	[[folder: Why does Freddy stay burned?]]
142	* Throughout the franchise (most noticeably Nightmare 6 and an alternate scene in the Remake), Freddy has the ability to make himself look human. So why does he nearly always keep his burned appearance?
143	** Because it makes him look scary. He wants to be ugly to scare the kids, and why wouldn't he? The burned appearance isn't just a reminder of what happened; in case the kids want to tattle and speak up about the incident, the parents will not. Plus, it represents his empowerment to take revenge from beyond the grave for what said parents did. Furthermore, there's no in-universe indication that he feels shame or disgust about his appearance; if anything, he probably believes it bolsters and enhances his fearsome factor.
144	** Alternatively, he can disguise himself as a human, but it will be but a glamour. His true self, his soul, if you will, is ugly and monstrous.
145	[[/folder]]
146
147	[[folder: Why does the nature of Freddy's claws vary from movie to movie]]
148	* In the first one they are part of his gloves (like when he was alive), but in at least some of the sequels they seem to be his actual fingernails. Why is this the case? Furthermore, wouldn't having WolverineClaws as fingernails be really inconvenient for pretty much any activity ''other'' than killing people (i.e how could he write or type anything?)
149	** As mentioned above, Freddy's image is a projection. Whatever his real nature is it's probably spiritual and probably formless, he projects the image that he wants into the minds of his victims during dreams thus the exact form of this image may vary depending on his preferences and what can be more scary. Yes, he can't be taken to the real world and probably once in it he can't change his shape as he's then bind by physical laws, but while in dreamland he can't look however he wants and several movies show this. As for other activities, he's already dead, he's a ghost, he has no other activities, he doesn't need to eat, drink, excrete, sleep, etc., but even if he did, he can change temporary his shape thus his hand if he wants.
150	** The only time we see the fingernail-knives was in ''New Nightmare'', and that wasn't actually Freddy; it was a demon impersonating him. The characters in that film explicitly acknowledge the redesign (and that film is not technically canon to the other films). The knife glove itself does change slightly from film to film (notable gaining much larger blades for ''Freddy Vs Jason'',) but this can be handwaved by the MST3KMantra (his burns and sweater are different in the first film, not to mention Robert Englund getting older). ''Freddy's Dead'' also showed he had multiple knife gloves of different designs while alive.
151	[[/folder]]
152
153	[[folder: How many Elm Street Kids were there to kill?]]
154	* We discuss Freddy's limitations a lot on this page, but how many kids did the lynch mob have for Freddy to want to kill? Was Nancy and her friends the first he got to?
155	[[/folder]]
156
157	[[folder: How many Elm Street kids were alive when Freddy died?]]
158	* Nancy and friends were clearly older than Kristen and friends. How many years ago was Freddy killed? Did some people who didn't have kids yet join in the angry mob? Or has there been enough time for all of them to have grown into teens?
159	[[/folder]]
160

Context Headscratchers / ANightmareOnElmStreet