Line #25 Fridge/Hercules


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4	* The role of Nessus as a river guardian is a call-back to the myth of the river god Achelous, whom Hercules faced for the hand of his first wife. Interestingly, the god turned into a half-man, half-bull creature in his attempt to defeat his foe, only to have one of his horn torn off. Not only Nessus' face looks somewhat taurine (the flat nose and bulging eye ridges), but Hercules rode him like one and he grows a horn courtesy of a CranialEruption!
5	* Why do Pain and Panic flinch and cower when their boss calls them by name after his meeting with the Fates? They thought he was ready to maim them ("Memo to me, memo to me, maim you after my meeting").
6	* GeniusBonus: In Ancient Greece, bards would typically recite epic poems orally. At the beginning of epic poems, the bard would usually request that a muse sing for him in order to tell a more "accurate" story. Examples of such a request is seen at the beginnings of ''Literature/TheIliad'' and ''Literature/TheOdyssey''; muses were considered the true speakers of the tale and the bard just the mouthpiece. At the beginning of ''Hercules'' the narrator is interrupted by the muses who proceed to sing the tale in his place.
7	* The changing of the Titans' beings doesn't make much sense at first; until you look at them as the stages that the Earth went through before civilization popped up.
8	** The thunderstorm during Hercules' battle with the Hydra seems really random and conveniently thematic; then you remember that Zeus controls thunder and lightning, which means he must be watching from 'upstairs' and is worried for Herc's safety.
9	* "That's the gospel truth!" [[HijackedByJesus It]] ''certainly is.''
10	* The prophecy told by the Fates was that, "should Hercules fight," Hades would fail. When Pain and Panic are interrupted while they're poisoning Hercules as a baby, Hercules [[ExactWords fights them off]] and survives - Hades' fate had already been decided in the first few minutes of the movie!
11	* When Megara is talking to Hades, she says Herc gave her the innocent farmboy act, but she "saw through that in a Peloponnesian minute." It's a throwaway joke, but it's also a bit of Foreshadowing of Meg's shifting allegiance. Historically, Megara was a town in Greece that shifted allegiances between Sparta and Athens a number of times.
12	* Hercules, after slicing his way out of the Hydra's throat, briefly is woozy and is ''seeing triple''. That joke about "How many horns do you see" may as well be a FiveSecondForeshadowing, as moments later the Hydra sprouts ''three new heads'' where it lost just one!
13	* For all the changes they made, Disney kept all of Herc's central character traits-- HairTriggerTemper, impulsive nature, tendency to devote himself utterly--and they're what drives the plot in the end.
14	** Hercules' abilities were surprising cunning for someone you wouldn't expect it from (just see how he cleaned the Augean Stables or made a fool of Atlas) and being so strong to go BeyondTheImpossible and defeat death. We see him proving his cunning against the Hydra (how do you kill a monster that regenerates every time you cut its head? You squash it) and the Cyclops (Herc had been BroughtDownToNormal, yet he managed to win by outsmarting him), he proves the ability to defeat death when he survives what should have killed him and revives Megara, and for the ability to go BeyondTheImpossible... The Titans were gods, thus immortal (hence why Zeus imprisoned them), yet Hercules ''killed them''. And that's without going with the whole thing of writing his own fate...
15	** Hercules killing the Titans actually has a root in Greek mythology: the war against the Giants established that gods (such as the Giants) can be killed if attacked by mortals and gods at the same time... And Hercules, being a god who was turned into mortal but still has a spark of divinity, counts as both, even without being helped by Zeus in the fight. Bonus point for the mythological Herakles being the leader of the army of mortals that assisted the Olympians against the Giants.
16	*** Interestingly, the Titans seem to ''know'' this: they didn't react much when Hercules freed the other Olympians, as they had already [[CurbStompBattle mopped the floor with them]], but [[OhCrap reacted with horror]] and [[ScrewThisImOuttaHere turned tail]] the moment Zeus was free and got his hands on lightnings as they knew from experience that Zeus could wound them, what with having already been defeated by him once and him single-handedly holding the line against them until he ran out of lightnings a few minutes earlier, and being wounded by a god while Hercules was around meant they were suddenly at danger of being killed-just as he did less than a minute later. Stratos, on the other end, tried to hold the line because, being made of wind, Zeus ''couldn't'' wound him - and this ended up being everyone's undoing when Hercules ''weaponized him''.
17	*** Hercules seemed aware of this: as stated above, his Titan-killing attack consisted of grabbing the invulnerable Stratos and using him to vacuum-up the others before throwing everyone into space, fulfilling both requirements at once by hitting him with the others. Once again, strength and smarts.
18	* A RunningGag in the animated movie is that Phil always says more or less words than he counts. The first instance of this: "Two words! I am retired!" Except in Greek, it ''is'' two words (Είμαι συνταξιούχος).
19	** Phil also calls Hercules "kid" constantly throughout the movie. Phil is a goat man.
20	* Restoring Megara's soul might not have fixed her broken body--lucky for her that Heracles was a Greek god of health!
21	%%* As the main page points out, there is an apparent plot hole between the animated series and the movie, due to Hades being surprised to learn the Hercules is alive in movie despite having antagonized him throughout his teen years. However, there is a way to reconcile these two. In [[CardCarryingVillain classical cartoon bad guy fashion]], many of Hades plans to kill Herc in the series involve placing him in peril remotely, and just assuming that the plan worked and that he is dead, only for the hero to show up to foil him later. Indeed, it is exactly this type of behavior that leads to his reaction in the movie. So, its possible to suppose that at the time that Hercules interrupted Meg's deal with Nessus in the movie, Hades was still under the assumption that Herc was dead due to a ''much more recent'' death plan he had sent Pain and Panic to enact on his behalf (and which they again bungled and lied about, since they clearly never learn). Combine this with the television series featuring several episodes using Lethe water, which causes a loss of memory, as a plot device and there you go.
22	%% This doesn't work. Why then would Hades be surprised to learn Pain and Panic had failed to kill Hercules and lied about it? You'd think he'd be like, "You screwed up and lied to me AGAIN?" This could MAYBE go on the YMMV page.
23	* Hercules' last deal with Hades--"[Meg] goes. [Hercules] stays" in the River Styx. Even with the whole "you'll be dead before you get there" caveat, it would seem Hercules broke the deal by leaving the Underworld, right? Not exactly; if you watch closely, Hades and Hercules never shook on the deal. It was never binding, so technically there was no deal for either party to go back on.
24	** Hades was overconfident on his part, thinking that Hercules will not survive it anyway (as shown when Hercules aged extremely fast) but was at loss for words when Hercules succeeded. Hades most likely did not know about Hercules' ongoing goal at the time, to become a true hero. Remember when the Sisters of Fate said that should Hercules fight, Hades will lose? This one was done in two ways. Hercules fought against Fate and Death, sacrificing himself to save Megara, one of the acts of true heroism and nothing to do with fame which then unlocked his godhood. Additionally, Hercules socked Hades in the face and then punched him into the River Styx. Not only did Hercules fight symbolically, he also fought Hades physically.
25	* Meg decides she's through with helping Hades attempt to trap Hercules after realizing [[SheepInSheepsClothing he legitimately is as kind and heroic as he appears]] and that he really cares about her. One reason is that she's fallen in love with him; another is that Hercules may have reminded her of her original open-hearted and naive self. If she used him, it would make her like the guy who dumped her after she sacrificed herself for him.
26	** This moment came full circle at the end. Whereas Megara sacrificed her soul through a deal to save Adonis, Adonis betrayed her. Megara then sacrificed herself to save Hercules which caused the 24 hours deal to break because Megara got hurt. Instead of abandoning (i.e. betraying) Megara, Hercules went to save her from the River Styx. And because Megara's soul was already in Hades' grasp after she died, the deal is most likely considered fulfilled -so Hercules getting her soul back and then healing her injuries (giving Megara a ''new'' life, if not a renewed one) means Megara's soul is "no longer the old one" that originally belonged to Hades.
27	* A common subject of Greek comedies were parodies of classic myths and one particular sub-genre known as satyr plays would insert drunken satyr shenanigans into the story to create humor or conflict. This is possibly why they chose to portray Phil as a comical nymph-chasing satyr instead of the human he originally was.
28	* The Fates' prophecy: Hades will release the Titans, take over Olympus, and rule all - but they add “a word of caution to this tale: Should Hercules fight, you will fail". Consider how Hercules ends up saving Mt Olympus in the first place - he's desperate to prove himself worthy of godhood, gone through all the training necessary for such a task, motivated to stop Hades for revenge, wants to hurry it up so he can save Meg, etc. Ironically, if Hades had just acted like he’d never heard the prophecy at all and just left Hercules alone until the Titans were able to be released instead of making him mortal, it's likely he might not have been able to save Olympus. Hades could've told the Titans that Hercules would be the biggest threat, so they could come up with a plan to quickly neutralize him. And Hades would have had the element of surprise as well, as the gods would have no reason to suspect him of anything. In the film he wasn't expecting Hercules at all, (believing he'd successfully depowered him long enough to finish his plan) and thus he (and the Titans) were unprepared because they thought he was already out of the way. In classic Greek fashion, the Fates set Hades out on a SelfFulfillingProphecy.
29	** Similarly, the prophecy warns about what will happen if Hercules ''fights'' - and it never said he needed to be BroughtDownToNormal for Hades to win.
30	** And while Pain and Panic’s attempt to turn Hercules mortal with the mortality potion as a baby was ''mostly'' successful (they gave him enough to render him vulnerable to aging and dying), they'd ''never'' be able to remove ''every'' shred of divinity and render him ''fully'' mortal, even if the bottle ''wasn't'' destroyed with the last drop still inside it- ''because it's physically and scientifically impossible for a person to drink the last drop of anything!''
31	* In Phil's song "One Last Hope", at least a couple lyrics are foreshadow-y. He says "It takes more than sinew/comes down to what's in you", and what does Zeus tell Herc when he finally ascends? "A hero isn't measured by the size of his strength, but by the strength of his heart." Phil was right, but even he forgot to teach Hercules that lesson and reinforce it.
32	* The tallest one of The Fates was originally keeping the other ones from telling Hades the future. They only told him their prophecy after he gave them back the eye. Now can anyone tell me how Perseus had to blackmail them into giving him help to defeat Medusa?
33	* The Titans are made of rock, ice, lava and tornado. They are actually earth, water, fire and air, the basic elements of life, only in their most destructive form. The muses say they have been there when Earth was born. Could they be like the "side effects" of its creation?
34	** Which makes sense if you remember the origin of the Titans in the original myths: they were the children of Gaia.
35	* Why is Hera, the most recognizable {{Yandere}} asshole in Greek mythology is much [[TookALevelInKindness nicer]] in here? {{Disneyfication}} aside, Hercules being her ''actual legitimate'' child and a good-looking one to boot (see: Hephaestus) probably helped which prevented her from getting any ideas about driving her actual son mad in the actual myths.
36	* Whenever we see the aligning planets, six planets can be seen. In ancient times, five planets were known because those can be seen by the naked eye: Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Adding Earth gives us the total of six.
37	** Alternately, the sixth planet is Uranus. Despite not being noticed like the others, Uranus is visible with the naked eye when conditions are clear enough. Meanwhile, Neptune is correctly missing because it is the ''only'' true planet that can never be seen without a telescope.
38	* The fact that saving Meg gave Hercules his divinity while all his other heroics apparently didn't count [[BrokenAesop has raised a few eyebrows]], but there's a good reason for it. Meg's rescue was the ''only'' heroic act that Hercules performed without an ulterior motive. Everything else Hercules did was done because he thought it was his ticket into Olympus; helping people and doing the right thing was at best a secondary motivation. Hercules's excitement over two kids being trapped in a gorge seems like a quick gag, but it's a perfect display of the problem that was holding him back: lack of concern for others in favor of focusing on what he can get for himself. When Hercules made the deal to save Meg, he didn't stand to benefit in any way as far as he knew, which made it his first truly selfless act. Zeus knew that an act of true selflessness was the key, but explaining that to Hercules directly would have made that requirement impossible to meet.
39	** In addition, Herc performed all that heroism with his SuperStrength while fighting physical opponents, meaning he wasn't in too much danger. All that strength, however, was useless in that whirlpool of death. That's the first time his life -- and, considering where he was, his very soul -- was ''truly'' on the line.
40	* The same thing applies to Phil; he only succeeds at his goal of training a hero great enough to warrant a constellation after focusing on helping his student. Initially he takes on Herc as a protégé to accomplish that dream (and to get Zeus off his back), but by the time Meg arrives to beg him for help while Hercules is losing his battle with the Cyclops, he's legitimately grown fond of the young man and gives him that final pep talk simply to keep him from dying via HeroicBSOD. It's only after that Phil sees and hears the things he wanted during all those years of hero training.
41	* Zeus' main power is [[ShockAndAwe his thunderbolt]], but the bolts are actually made by Hephaestus. So why is he the king of the gods? Because [[AsskickingLeadsToLeadership he's the only one actually strong enough to control it]], just as in the myth he's actually stronger than all the other Olympians ''combined''.
42	** Linked to this, there's the gods who have shown some measure of control over the thunderbolts, that in the myth are the strongest gods after Zeus: Hercules, even as a child, could handle the (pocket-sized) thunderbolts; Athena never showed herself able to hurl them, but can at least ''deflect'' them when all other gods cowered at a single pocket thunderbolt; Hades can, at least in some situations, destroy a prison made of Zeus' thunderbolts; and, in the TV series, [[spoiler:Hera]] is the one who threw the thunderbolt that [[spoiler:defeated ''Typhon'']].
43	** This actually hints at how Hades expected to control the Titans after dethroning Zeus: he has reasons to think he can control thunderbolts (and may well be right), and he plans to use ''that'' to deal with them.
44	* In the video game, your checkpoints throughout each level are marked by having Hermes hang out near each one. Makes a lot of sense for him to fill that role, seeing as he's the patron god of travelers.
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48	* Despite agreeing to take Meg's place in the Underworld if Hades let him save her, Hercules appears to have gone back on the deal by the end of the film. But consider that his alternative to saving Meg could've been becoming a hero in the living world, which would've granted him godhood and immortality...The same gifts he ''surrenders'' in the end, in order to be with Meg. In doing so, he's ensured that he ''[[TheProblemWithFightingDeath will]]'' [[TheProblemWithFightingDeath end up in the Underworld someday.]] After all, the deal technically never specified ''when''. The only way if this will ever be averted is that Hercules ascends to godhood upon his death, not to mention the deal itself already fell through since he never shook on it.
49	* Besides [[{{Squick}} Nessus' assault on Meg]], she's probably been forced into similar situations to help Hades make deals before...
50	* We're never told just how long Meg's been working for Hades. She could have been his slave for decades or even ''centuries'', since he controls her soul, including whether or not it can pass to the Underworld.
51	** Most likely, he "enlisted" her services sometime in the 18 years Hercules spent growing up - Hades never even mentioned or hinted at having her at the beginning of the film, even offhandedly.
52	*** Thankfully the series actually gives a hint by showing she's around the same age as Hercules (and even having a blind date with Adonis, who's one of his classmates). So she's been serving Hades a few years at most.
53	** On the subject... Nessus was the one who KILLED Hercules in myths.... and he's still alive. Hercules has to watch out.
54	*** Nessus didn't kill Hercules directly. However, Nessus' blood was made poisonous because he was killed by Hercules' arrow, which had been dipped in the Hydra's blood. In the myth, as he lays dying Nessus tells Deianira to dip a robe in his blood and give it to Hercules to wear if she thinks that his love for her is beginning to fade. Deianira (without pausing to think, "why would someone who has just tried to rape me, and is now bleeding out from a wound dealt in my defense, want to help me?" mind you) does just that, thinking of the many ladies that would like to steal her husband. One day while Hercules is away at war, he wins a great victory and sends a messenger to prepare a great celebration feast. Deianira hears about a beautiful slave girl that was captured and thinking that the time is right, gives Lichas, the herald, the robe to deliver to Hercules to wear to the feast. Herc puts it on, and immediately it begins burning him. Even Hercules can't tear it off his body and it melts though his skin and begins charring his bones, but he can't die. In his agony Hercules uproots several trees, then uses them to build his own funeral pyre, which Philoctetes lights. Through Zeus' apotheosis, Hercules rises to Olympus as he dies. Deianira hears about it and kills herself from guilt.
55	*** Also, the only reason Deianira was in that situation was that Megara, Herc's first wife, was long dead (by Hercules' own hand, don't forget). As long as Hercules doesn't kill Nessus specifically with his poisoned arrows, Hercules is safe.
56	* When Phil spots Meg and Hades talking, he's waking up after her song - and during Hades talking to Meg like she's some sort of girlfriend. In the background of him listening, Hades is really pulling Meg close, especially considering he's her boss and she doesn't like him much. Later Phil calls Meg, "nothing but a two-timing, lying, cheating-". Not only does Phil think Meg's willingly working for Hades, but he's witnessed a scene that makes him think she's amorously involved with him. It pretty much puts canon to the theories that Hades may have abused Meg in other ways...
57	* When watching Disney's ''WesternAnimation/{{Hercules}}'' as a child, it looks like that centaur-monster was just hassling Meg, right? But try watching the same scene with a better knowledge of the mythology, listen closely to the dialogue, and... ''squick''. Yeah, he's trying to rape her. And just to add more horror on top of that... he's not only half horse, he's half ''giant'' horse.
58	* In Hercules, Hades' afterlife is a deep whirlpool where [[FateWorseThanDeath souls are condemned to swirl around forever]] under the watch of [[EverybodyHatesHades an apathetic death god.]] While the Elysian Fields exists, only the souls of heroes go there. In the world of Hercules ''the majority of mankind'' is condemned to [[AndIMustScream eternally drift in a vortex or splash around in the River Styx]] (and even if Hades ended up being booted off, that still means a billion souls have suffered for centuries). At least in the actual Hades you can wander...
59	** It's not clearly established what slice of humanity is in that whirlpool, or where, if anywhere, it leads to.
60	* Even though the ending of this movie was treated as a HappyEnding, [[HappyEndingOverride no good can really come out of it]]. Hercules will eventually die, and poor Zeus and Hera will have to watch and then suffer with it for all of eternity. Keep in mind that those two already missed out on his whole childhood, and now this! Even if he does ascend to Mt. Olympus after his death (since he did earn his godhood, he simply chose to give it up), there's no way Meg will be allowed up there, meaning Herc will have to live for eternity alone, while the love of his life is stuck floating in a river. Even if he was able to save her from the face of death before, I doubt he can do anything about her dying of old age.
61	** Though to be fair, it happened more than once in the real myths that a genuine god would be able to deify their chosen mortal bride.
62	** And in the original myths, when Heracles built and climbed onto his own funeral pyre to end his suffering, (centaur blood, unending torment while living, that sort of thing) he was so thoroughly cremated that the divine part of him became separated from the mortal part and joined the gods on Olympus. Who's to say that won't happen here regardless of Herc's fate, whether he dies of old age or by some other means? The "real" Hercules ''was'' properly deified, after all.
63	** Hercules (Actually Heracles) in mythology was a gatekeeper of Olympus (basically one of the guardians of Olympus), as well as being the divine protector of mankind (explaining why he was able to reside on Earth despite still being a god). But more importantly, he was worshipped as a god of several different things: God of strength, heroes, sports, athletes, health, agriculture, fertility, trade, oracles. His role as a protector of mankind helps to explain why he chose to remain on earth. Not only that, but several gods in mythology were known to live among mortals, so Disney was making a subtle nod to mythology by making Hercules remain on Earth. Also in mythology, numerous mortals were apotheosized (made immortal) by the gods (Psyche, Ariadne, Asclepius, Heracles, Dionysus, The Dioscuri- Kastor & Polydeukes, Ganymede, Leucothea, Palaemon) to name a few. The gods and goddesses married mortals right and left and turned them immortal quite easily, so it's highly possible that Hercules would allow Meg to live out her mortal lifespan and then restore her youth by immortalizing her.
64	* Alcmene and Amphytrion finding Hercules and adopting him is a very sweet scene but has a crueller side considering this was a very common practice in ancient Greece. Know as "exposure", unwanted newborns were left out in the wild by their fathers to be "left to their fates". These babies would either die or be adopted by childless couples.
65	** In the myths, even some gods weren't spared such treatment: in one myth, as a baby, Hephaestus was thrown down from Olympus by his mother, Hera, due to his deformed leg. He fell into the sea, where he was found and raised by sea nymphs before returning to Olympus when he grew older.
66	* Despite the fact that Hades is defeated in a typical manner implying "DisneyDeath", Hades is not killed and will come back as implied by Pain and Panic's conversation. This is already bad enough to what seems like a typical HappyEnding..... But in the original myths, there have been mortals who rebelled against Hades. For example:
67	** When King Admetus' wife Alcestis dies (after she volunteered to take his death) and a ‘dark cloaked and winged’ Hades comes to retrieve her soul, Herakles gets into a fight with Hades, ultimately making Hades give her up and restore her to life.
68	** In another myth, Hades is sent by Zeus to retrieve King Sisyphus' soul. Stealthily King Sisyphus asked Hades why Hermes, whose job was to escort shades to the Underworld, had not come for him. Because Hades was busy trying to come up with an answer, he was unaware that chains were being placed around him until it was too late.  As long as Hades was tied up, nobody could die. Because of this, sacrifices could not be made to the gods, and those that were old and sick were suffering. The gods finally threatened to make life so miserable for Sisyphus that he would wish he were dead. He then had no choice but to release Hades.
69	** In other myths, Hades often attacked mortals, whether it be because Hades was trying to protect Cerberus from Herakles, or because Herakles was attacking the city of Pylos and Hades came to its aid, or simply because mortals were trying to cheat death.
70	** But in the end, Hades found a way to prevail. So it can only be expected Hades will be back for trouble in future schemes. Being stuck in the pool won't probably last enough to give Hercules a break since he's fought far worse disobedience in the original myths...
71	** Except the god in the above-mentioned myths was Thanatos, the personification of Death. Hades was the ruler of his namesake realm in the Underworld, where the souls of the dead went, while Thanatos resides in the Erebus ("Darkness") section of the Underworld and is completely loyal to Zeus and the Fates. As Hades does ''not'' command his loyalty and merely takes in the souls Thanatos brings him, there's no danger he'll get out.
72	*** In some versions of mythology, Hades and Thanatos are the same person.
73	* What will the citizens of Thebes ever to do with the corpse of the Cyclops after Herc defeats him by knocking him down, [[DisneyVillainDeath falling to his death]]? He would be left there to rot.
74	* One of Phil's failed proteges is Odysseus. Does that mean he never made it home to his family in this world?
75	** Another protege was Achilles who died at Troy. Which means Phil was taking students recently enough for two to be at Troy. Odysseus took 10 years to get home. Maybe Hercules was trained during that decade and Phil is going to hear that one of the students he had believed dead is alive and had a heck of an adventure on his way home? Although if he has other students on Odysseus’ crew, he’ll also get confirmation those ones are dead and find out how they died
76	* The Titans were implied by the Muses at the beginning of the movie to be wrecking havoc on Earth millions of years before mankind existed. does this mean [[HistoricalRapSheet they have]] [[RealEventFictionalCause caused the extinction of]] [[PhlebotinumKilledTheDinosaurs the Dinosaurs]] and other mass extinctions throughout prehistory?
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Context Fridge / Hercules