History YMMV / WorldOfWarcraft

26th Mar '17 9:56:08 AM Valiona
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** Garrosh during his final battle with Thrall. Does he have a point, and did Thrall give him a responsibility that he wasn't ready for? Or is he simply making excuses and refusing to accept responsibility for his actions (throughout Mists of Pandaria, he'd mocked Thrall as being too soft to be an effective leader or a "true" orc)?



** Whilst the furore has largely died down (aside from a few hard-liners), the reaction to ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' not being a real-time strategy game can be likened to what happens when one [[InternetBackdraft mixes weapons-grade plutonium, petrol, Nicholas Cage and dynamite]] and [[MadeOfExplodium throws them into a volcano]] directed by Creator/MichaelBay.

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** Whilst the furore furor has largely died down (aside from a few hard-liners), the reaction to ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' not being a real-time strategy game can be likened to what happens when one [[InternetBackdraft mixes weapons-grade plutonium, petrol, Nicholas Cage and dynamite]] and [[MadeOfExplodium throws them into a volcano]] directed by Creator/MichaelBay.



** Garrosh. He was hated by many players when he appeared in [=WotLK=] but he later appeared sympathetic early on in Cataclysm in scenes such as despairing over Magatha's poisoning of Cairne, publicly executing a Horde general that bombed an Alliance village full of innocent people (by dropping him off a cliff), and telling Sylvanas off for using the val'kyr to raise more Forsaken, saying she is going against nature and is no better than the Lich King. However, due to much of the early backlash, he was established as a full on villain in ''Mists of Pandaria'' with the goal of killing anyone that wasn't an orc and loyal to him. As with Kael, many lost sympathy for him at that point, and tended to focus on his more sympathetic characterization during Cataclysm, through you can still find players claiming he's the best Warchief the Horde has had even when he became a full-on villain. His death in ''Warlords of Draenor'' only added fuel to the fire with his NeverMyFault speech laying all the blame for his actions at the feet of [[TheScrappy Thrall]] and has [[VillainHasAPoint just enough truth in it]] that some fans were happy to blame Thrall for everything he did.

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** Garrosh. He was hated by many players when he appeared in [=WotLK=] but he later appeared sympathetic early on in Cataclysm in scenes such as despairing over Magatha's poisoning of Cairne, publicly executing a Horde general that bombed an Alliance village full of innocent people (by dropping him off a cliff), and telling Sylvanas off for using the val'kyr to raise more Forsaken, saying she is going against nature and is no better than the Lich King. However, due to much of the early backlash, he was established as a full on villain in ''Mists of Pandaria'' with the goal of killing anyone that wasn't an orc and loyal to him. As with Kael, many lost sympathy for him at that point, and tended to focus on his more sympathetic characterization during Cataclysm, through you can still find players claiming he's the best Warchief the Horde has had even when he became a full-on villain. His death in ''Warlords of Draenor'' only added fuel to the fire with his NeverMyFault speech laying all the blame for his actions at the feet of [[TheScrappy Thrall]] and has [[VillainHasAPoint just enough truth in it]] that some fans were happy to blame Thrall for everything he did.did, in spite of the fact that this flies in the face of his arrogantly saying that the Horde is better off without Thrall, [[EnemyMine even as the combined Alliance and Horde are closing in on him]].



* MoralEventHorizon: Arthas crossed the line long ago and continues to get more evil over time. Through where and when is a toss-up between the usage of Mercenaries to burn his own ships and the subsequent betrayal of said mercenaries to ensure his men continue to fight Mal'Ganis, the death of his father, the merging with Ner'zhul, [[spoiler: or when he killed Ner'zhul and banishes his good half to remain in control of the Lich King.]] Some also view his Culling of Stratholme as one, through it is very debatable to what extent was it justified.

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* MoralEventHorizon: Arthas crossed the line long ago and continues to get more evil over time. Through where and when is a toss-up between the usage of Mercenaries to burn his own ships and the subsequent betrayal of said mercenaries to ensure his men continue to fight Mal'Ganis, the death of his father, the merging with Ner'zhul, [[spoiler: or when he killed Ner'zhul and banishes his good half to remain in control of the Lich King.]] Some also view his Culling of Stratholme as one, through it is very debatable to what extent was it justified.justified, what alternatives he had and whether he resorted to such an extreme measure too quickly or easily.
25th Mar '17 7:23:24 AM MicoolTNT
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** You'd actually be very surprised how [[WasteOfTimeStory little]] people pay attention to it.
*** You'd actually be very surprised how much players who enjoy narrative and variety in their video games appreciate it.

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** %%** You'd actually be very surprised how [[WasteOfTimeStory little]] people pay attention to it.
*** %%*** You'd actually be very surprised how much players who enjoy narrative and variety in their video games appreciate it.
23rd Mar '17 4:04:59 PM NaraNumas
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** Some fans aren't happy that lore books and ''Legion'' reveals [[spoiler:that the Dragons have gone sterile, given how important the Dragons are in the franchise. That this is apparently an aftereffect of the aspects using the Dragon Soul to kill Deathwing makes it even worse, while a lot of fans are fine with the aspects losing their immortality and immense power, they feel like putting all dragons on the extinction clock ''for doing their job'' of protecting Azeroth and millions of mortals is just blatantly unfair]]

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** Some fans aren't happy that lore books and ''Legion'' reveals [[spoiler:that the Dragons have gone sterile, given how important the Dragons are in the franchise. That this is apparently an aftereffect of the aspects using the Dragon Soul to kill Deathwing makes it even worse, while a lot of fans are fine with the aspects losing their immortality and immense power, they feel like putting all dragons on the extinction clock ''for doing their job'' of protecting Azeroth and millions of mortals is just blatantly unfair]]unfair. This was compounded in 7.2's chain for the Death Knight's flying mount, which gives them the potential to massacre the last surviving whelps of the Red Dragonflight, condemning them to eventual (if not immediate) extinction, though which between the massacre or leaving survivors will be the canon is unclear, the fact that it's happening at all has many fans of Warcraft's dragons crossing the DespairEventHorizon and wanting Blizzard to change it, throw the dragons a bone in repayment, or threatening to quit.]]
6th Mar '17 6:11:20 PM Loremasta1
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** Downplayed with Sylvanas. The fandom is quite aware of her grey (and greying) nature; that said, she has quite a few fans who overlook her morally questionable actions and defend her. [[{{Stripperific}} Her appearance]] [[ChainmailBikini likely]] [[HelloNurse factors]] [[ScrewTheRulesImBeautiful into this]].

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** Downplayed with Sylvanas. The fandom is quite aware of her grey (and greying) nature; that said, nature and [[KarmaHoudiniWarranty until Legion]] her status as a KarmaHoudini. Despite this, she has quite a few fans who overlook her morally questionable actions and defend her. [[{{Stripperific}} Her appearance]] appearance]], [[ChainmailBikini likely]] her attire]], [[TheUnfairSex and maybe even her gender]] likely [[HelloNurse factors]] [[ScrewTheRulesImBeautiful into this]].



** Darion Mograine and Sylvanas stand out in particular.

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** Darion Mograine and Sylvanas stand out in particular.particular, though the later can also be seen as a JerkassWoobie.



** Sylvanas is quite sympathetic, but she also holds the living in contempt and can often be fairly icy and brusque to those with whom she deals.

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** Sylvanas is quite sympathetic, but she also holds the living in contempt contempt, [[TookALevelInJerkass starts forcibly converting them into undead despite hating that it happened to her]] and can often be fairly icy and brusque to those with whom she deals.deals. Having said that, her [[ALighterShadeOfBlack increasingly grey nature]] is starting wear out the sympathy for some fans; regarding her tragic backstory, explanation does not equal justification.
26th Feb '17 3:05:24 PM nombretomado
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** The Pandaren have existed since 2002, but were not brought in the forefront (i.e., becoming a playable race) until around 2012, after which a franchise came out featuring a, for lack of a better term... Film/KungFuPanda.

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** The Pandaren have existed since 2002, but were not brought in the forefront (i.e., becoming a playable race) until around 2012, after which a franchise came out featuring a, for lack of a better term... Film/KungFuPanda.WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda.



* VindicatedByHistory: ''Mists of Pandaria'' was a top contender for TheUnfavourite among [=WoW=]'s expansions, with only ''Cataclysm'' rivaling it for the spot. This stemmed from over-reliance on daily quests in the raid-gearing curve, some users not liking the Pandaren and calling them a rip-off of ''Film/KungFuPanda''. However, as ''Warlords of Draenor'' went on, many have started to feel nostalgic about Pandaria instead. While it certainly had its flaws, as listed above, people admitted that it brought plenty of content ([=WoD=]'s problem is that it has barely any) and it did do a good job handling the Alliance-Horde War, whereas Ashran, the new designated [=PvP=] zone is another blatant case of the ConflictBall, and underlines the faction war's nature as a YoYoPlotPoint.

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* VindicatedByHistory: ''Mists of Pandaria'' was a top contender for TheUnfavourite among [=WoW=]'s expansions, with only ''Cataclysm'' rivaling it for the spot. This stemmed from over-reliance on daily quests in the raid-gearing curve, some users not liking the Pandaren and calling them a rip-off of ''Film/KungFuPanda''.''WesternAnimation/KungFuPanda''. However, as ''Warlords of Draenor'' went on, many have started to feel nostalgic about Pandaria instead. While it certainly had its flaws, as listed above, people admitted that it brought plenty of content ([=WoD=]'s problem is that it has barely any) and it did do a good job handling the Alliance-Horde War, whereas Ashran, the new designated [=PvP=] zone is another blatant case of the ConflictBall, and underlines the faction war's nature as a YoYoPlotPoint.
26th Feb '17 7:44:32 AM LadyJaneGrey
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: For many, Zul'jin. Given that he was often spoken of as a heroic. or anti-heroic, forest troll who made the forest trolls (and trolls as a whole) seem less evil, many, many players felt he deserved better than being retconned into a GenericDoomsdayVillain fought and killed in a 10-man raid instance that has since removed him replacing him with a SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute.

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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
**
For many, Zul'jin. Given that he was often spoken of as a heroic. or anti-heroic, forest troll who made the forest trolls (and trolls as a whole) seem less evil, many, many players felt he deserved better than being retconned into a GenericDoomsdayVillain fought and killed in a 10-man raid instance that has since removed him replacing him with a SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: The Worgen, originally extra-dimensional hellhounds with their own hierarchy and cunning brutality, have been retconned into being just a bunch of druids who went crazy.

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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
**
The Worgen, originally extra-dimensional hellhounds with their own hierarchy and cunning brutality, have been retconned into being just a bunch of druids who went crazy.



** There was a lot of {{Foreshadowing}} throughout Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King in regards to the Infinite Dragonflight and who their leader is. One quest in Dragonblight heavily implies Nozdormu, leader of the Bronze Dragonflight, has/will perform a FaceHeelTurn, but Chromie hand waves this saying he must be fighting the Infinites. As of Patch 4.2 he's back with no explanation given (his return was shown in a novel released ''after'' he appeared).
*** [[spoiler: Although it turns out he ''did'' go crazy in the distant future, and '''did''' become the leader of the Infinites,]] making this an aversion.

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** There was a lot of {{Foreshadowing}} throughout Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King in regards to the Infinite Dragonflight and who their leader is. One quest in Dragonblight heavily implies Nozdormu, leader of the Bronze Dragonflight, has/will perform a FaceHeelTurn, but Chromie hand waves this saying he must be fighting the Infinites. As of Patch 4.2 he's back with no explanation given (his return was shown in a novel released ''after'' he appeared).
***
appeared). [[spoiler: Although it turns out he ''did'' go crazy in the distant future, and '''did''' become the leader of the Infinites,]] making this an aversion.



** One part of the Suramar storyline involves persuading the city nobility to approve of Ly'leth for the role of advisor, done mostly by informing the other nobility of her opponent's atrocities and spreading rumors of fake ones, along with killing the worst of the loyalists among them. (This, in effect, plants a mole for the resistance ''much'' closer to Elisande than she believes.) Now, this had the potential to be an enjoyable StealthBasedMission, but unfortunately, the areas you have to go through to spread the rumors have the most mobs in the city able to uncover your disguise. This makes it turn into a slaughter (or worse, a "corpse run" where you have to die multiple times) rather quickly, and ruins the overall mood of the intent.



* UncannyValley: Quite a lot to choose from, but the Taunka are probably the worst. Bison-people doesn't sound like it'd cause this, but their flat, wide noses and lips and seemingly large eyes make them look more than a little... off.
** The new models in 2014 were made to replace the models that had been essentially the same since 2004. (With a few new faces and hairstyles). Most were received fairly well, but some look quite off. Notably the humans and the gnomes - the humans just look a little odd with how they became a little bit taller, and Gnomes eyes became ''way'' too big. (Even in the 2013 preview, players thought they fell right into the valley.) Blood Elves, Goblins, Pandaren, and Worgen received very minor if no visual changes at all, which makes them seem somewhat... off when placed next to the updated models.

to:

* UncannyValley: Quite a lot to choose from, but the Taunka are probably the worst. Bison-people doesn't sound like it'd cause this, but their flat, wide noses and lips and seemingly large eyes make them look more than a little... off.
**
off/ The new models in 2014 were made to replace the models that had been essentially the same since 2004. (With a few new faces and hairstyles). Most were received fairly well, but some look quite off. Notably the humans and the gnomes - the humans just look a little odd with how they became a little bit taller, and Gnomes eyes became ''way'' too big. (Even in the 2013 preview, players thought they fell right into the valley.) Blood Elves, Goblins, Pandaren, and Worgen received very minor if no visual changes at all, which makes them seem somewhat... off when placed next to the updated models.
7th Feb '17 2:45:06 AM THEKHAN
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** [[spoiler:Varimathras and his faction of the Forsaken]] triggered this trope when they [[spoiler:betrayed both the Horde and Alliance at the Wrathgate, killing thousands of soldiers on both sides (although one of the more notable Alliance casualties turned up later) and reigniting the Horde vs. Alliance war]].

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** [[spoiler:Varimathras and his faction of the Forsaken]] triggered this trope when they [[spoiler:betrayed both the Horde and Alliance at the Wrathgate, killing thousands of soldiers on both sides (although one of the more notable Alliance casualties turned up later) and reigniting the Horde vs. Alliance war]]. Sylvanas is well over the horizon from the start, employing the players to capture human farmers and chain them to be brought to mushroom plague camps where they'll be worked to death, tortured and experimented on. Forsaken or not, Horde or not, this is an early game sign that the Forsaken are definitely not a gray morality faction. If that's not depressing enough, then the Undercity doctors who keep a human woman, mutilated and blinded, and her brain parts removed to make a perfect slave. The doctor explains her torture and preparation in calm terms as she mindlessly toils in Undercity, the human slaves and prisoners of Undercity who are also literal fodder for the Forsaken, calmly passed by other Horde characters. Afterwards, ANY atrocity in-game feels less depressing.
6th Feb '17 4:55:16 AM JulianRayne
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*** First there's Rehgar Earthfury, Varian's orcish gladiator boss, who eventually became one of Thrall's most trusted lieutenants, and becomes a playable hero in ''VideoGame/HeroesOfTheStorm'' [[spoiler:before Legion ''finally'' gives him a proper [=WoW=] debut]]

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*** First there's Rehgar Earthfury, Varian's orcish gladiator boss, slavemaster, who eventually became one of Thrall's most trusted lieutenants, and becomes a playable hero in ''VideoGame/HeroesOfTheStorm'' [[spoiler:before Legion ''finally'' gives him a proper [=WoW=] debut]]
30th Jan '17 2:42:47 PM Nithael
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*** To be fair, he declared war on the Horde after seeing tons of discarded slaves who were Alliance prisoners of the Forsaken, tortured and killed for plague research and monstrous purposes.
30th Jan '17 5:44:27 AM THEKHAN
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** Lead quest designer Dave "Fargo" Kosak's pet seems to be Sylvanas Windrunner. From ''Cataclysm'' on, she begins using increasingly immoral means to accomplish her goals.[[note]] Which depending on who ask are ensuring the Forsaken's security and prosperity or just increasing her own power.[[/note]] She never really experiences much in the way of defeats and the setbacks she does experience are easily overcome. And despite her recent track record of forcibly raising the dead to serve her, using the plague whenever she encounters resistance, and clearly not feeling a shred of remorse for the lives she ended or ruined, in ''Legion'' [[spoiler:she's named the Warchief of the Horde over several better candidates. Vol'jin even hangs a lampshade on how many won't understand why she deserves even more authority and power after everything she's done.]]

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** Lead quest designer Dave "Fargo" Kosak's pet seems to be Sylvanas Windrunner. From ''Cataclysm'' on, she begins using increasingly immoral means to accomplish her goals.goals; not to mention her Forsaken had massive atrocities involving slavery, mass murder, vivisection and genocide right at Vanilla.[[note]] Which depending on who ask are ensuring the Forsaken's security and prosperity or just increasing her own power.[[/note]] She never really experiences much in the way of defeats and the setbacks she does experience are easily overcome. And despite her recent track record of forcibly raising the dead to serve her, using the plague whenever she encounters resistance, and clearly not feeling a shred of remorse for the lives she ended or ruined, in ''Legion'' [[spoiler:she's named the Warchief of the Horde over several better candidates. Vol'jin even hangs a lampshade on how many won't understand why she deserves even more authority and power after everything she's done.]]


Added DiffLines:

*** To be fair, he declared war on the Horde after seeing tons of discarded slaves who were Alliance prisoners of the Forsaken, tortured and killed for plague research and monstrous purposes.
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