History YMMV / WolverineAndTheXMen

31st Dec '15 5:41:02 PM MagBas
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** Is Wolverine-As-Leader a reluctant leader burdened with TheChainsOfCommanding? Or has he been turned into a DrillSergeantNasty CanonSue {{Hypocrite}} that routinely bullies subordinates (who are, of course [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong dissenters and thus always wrong]]) and has abandoned integrity to his principles in a stunning display of the fact that power corrupts? Both interpretations have supporters and detractors and a respectable amount of evidence can be assembled for either interpretation. Coupled with the fact that pretty much every fan of ComicBook/XMen has their own personal preferred characterization and canonical references (and the fact that Wolverine's characterizations have often been wildly varied even within the same source) and things get rather messy, rather quickly.
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** Is Wolverine-As-Leader a reluctant leader burdened with TheChainsOfCommanding? Or has he been turned into a DrillSergeantNasty CanonSue {{Hypocrite}} that routinely bullies subordinates (who are, of course [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong dissenters and thus always wrong]]) and has abandoned integrity to his principles in a stunning display of the fact that power corrupts? Both interpretations have supporters and detractors and a respectable amount of evidence can be assembled for either interpretation. Coupled with the fact that pretty much every fan of ComicBook/XMen has their own personal preferred characterization and canonical references (and the fact that Wolverine's characterizations have often been wildly varied even within the same source) and things get rather messy, rather quickly.

* RootingForTheEmpire: With Wolverine in full on CanonSue mode, Cyclops an unsympathetic {{Jerkass}} psychopath, Xavier an unlikable ManipulativeBastard, and most of the X-Men reduced to non-entities, it's kinda hard ''NOT'' to root for Magneto and the other various villains, if only because they have more personality and pizzazz.
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* RootingForTheEmpire: With Wolverine in full on CanonSue mode, Cyclops an unsympathetic {{Jerkass}} psychopath, Xavier an unlikable ManipulativeBastard, and most of the X-Men reduced to non-entities, it's kinda hard ''NOT'' to root for Magneto and the other various villains, if only because they have more personality and pizzazz.

* StrawLoser: Cyclops is this to Wolverine's CanonSue/BlackHoleSue and other various assorted MarySue/MartyStu tendencies. Wolverine's flaws are glossed over to the point that they don't exist while Cyclops's flaws are dialed up so high that he can't even function properly.
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* StrawLoser: Cyclops is this to Wolverine's CanonSue/BlackHoleSue and other various assorted MarySue/MartyStu tendencies.Wolverine. Wolverine's flaws are glossed over to the point that they don't exist while Cyclops's flaws are dialed up so high that he can't even function properly.

** Wolverine and most of the other X-Men fall into this as well, albeit for entirely different reasons: Wolverine is unsympathetic because he's too much of a CanonSue, while the other X-Men are too flat as characters to really sympathize with.
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** Wolverine and most of the other X-Men fall into this as well, albeit for entirely different reasons: Wolverine is unsympathetic because he's too much of a CanonSue, while jerk and the other X-Men are too flat as characters to really sympathize with.
13th Dec '15 8:08:38 PM nombretomado
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* TheWoobie: Evan a.k.a. Genesis, carrying over from Uncanny {{X-Force}}.
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* TheWoobie: Evan a.k.a. Genesis, carrying over from Uncanny {{X-Force}}.ComicBook/XForce.
21st Nov '15 7:58:44 PM BatmanKalEl
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Not YMMV
* ShipSinking: Somehow happens to both Jean Grey and Emma Frost in regards to Cyclops.
21st Nov '15 7:57:41 PM BatmanKalEl
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* FridgeLogic: Just how old are the original 5 founding X-Men? Angel, Beast, Cyclops and Jean Grey all look and sound like they're at least in their late 20s or early 30s, yet Iceman appears to be no more than 18, young enough it seems that he can crush on Kitty Pryde without it being creepy. ** Were Jean and Xavier using their telepathy to manipulate Cyclops into being the former's boyfriend and the latter's tin pot little soldier? Years of telepathic manipulation might have caused some unforeseen damage to his already fragile psyche that might have seriously messed up his emotional growth, resulting in his dysfunctional personality and behavior. It would also explain why Xavier shows absolutely no real emotional attachment or concern for Cyclops's welfare and would also explain how Jean can get away with casually showing little to no real emotional connection with him. Seriously, for the few minutes of screen time she has where she's not suffering from amnesia Jean treats Cyclops more like a dog she found in an animal shelter that she has to keep on a leash so that he won't bite anyone than a boyfriend she genuinely loves and cares about - because deep down she really just doesn't seem to. ** In the pilot Jean blows Wolverine a kiss on his way out while she's angrily arguing with Cyclops. At first one figures that as usual Jean and Wolverine are soul mates and that darn Cyclops is in the way again - until everything blows up and Jean disappears. Cyclops then spends the rest of the series obsessed with finding Jean while Wolverine... shows no real interest in whether or not she's still alive or trying to find her, much like the other X-Men, who appear to have given Jean up for dead. Then after ''Breakdown'' we learn that Wolverine had only been there for one night, just long enough to hit on Jean before she goes up in smoke, so it actually makes perfect sense that Wolverine does not actually care about finding Jean because they barely knew each other.
19th Nov '15 9:13:38 AM Korval
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Added DiffLines:
*** The cause of this particular broken base is almost certainly the flashbacks of Cyclops. Before that, he was shown to be a broken man, but everyone talked about how in the old days he held the team together. But from the flashbacks, we see that he was ''always'' a loser. From day 1, he was never the responsible, respected leader of the X-Men. So instead of being the leader who collapsed after the loss of Jean, he was the loser who managed to snag a hot chick, then attacked anyone who even looked at her, and reverted to his loser status the moment she was gone.
19th Nov '15 9:08:13 AM Korval
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* RonTheDeathEater: Boy, does Jean get no end of this. It seems there's not a single action she's done in the show she hasn't been condemned for when many actions are actually quite understandable. Her so-called hypocrisy of being pissed at Cyclops shooting a guy in the back in retaliation for a ''taunt'' of her being interested in him, a lie, as compared to her getting pissed and tying someone down for full-on making out with her ''unconscious'' boyfriend. (Which, admittedly was one of those "I might never get the chance" type of things, but she sure didn't know that and most don't take the time to ask questions when they see someone macking with their unconscious lover.) Her action towards Wolverine, which the former is often compared to? Blowing Wolvie a kiss. After Cyke blasted the guy in the back, rudely confronted her and insisted on having a talk instead of apologizing for losing it (well, Cyclops does apologize to her, just not to Wolverine). Yeah, not quite the same. Several even make theories that Jean was brainwashing him to love her despite there being not a shred of evidence, just a single instance of telepathic flirtation which is presented as such. ** It doesn't help that Jean has no real personality beyond simply being voiced by Creator/JenniferHale and she has very little screen time to boot.
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* RonTheDeathEater: Boy, does Jean get no end gets hit with this hard, due to the way her character is handled in the show. She is both FlatCharacter who's only personality is being voiced by Creator/JenniferHale, and the character around which so much of this. It seems there's not a single action she's done in the show revolves. Her existence motivates Scott (and as we discover later, Emma), but she hasn't been condemned has so little characterization that it's very easy for when many actions are actually quite understandable. Her so-called hypocrisy of viewers to project onto her any characteristics and motivations they want.\\ \\ Is she a hypocrite for being pissed off at Cyclops shooting a guy in the back in retaliation Scott for attacking Logan over a ''taunt'' of her being interested in him, a lie, as compared to her getting pissed and tying someone mere taunt, while later slamming down on Emma for full-on making out with her ''unconscious'' boyfriend. (Which, admittedly was one of those "I might never get the chance" type of things, but she sure didn't know that and most don't take the time to ask questions when they see someone macking with their unconscious lover.) Her action towards Wolverine, which the former is often compared to? Blowing Wolvie a kiss. After Cyke blasted the guy in the back, rudely confronted her and insisted on having a talk instead of apologizing for losing it (well, Cyclops does apologize to her, just not to Wolverine). Yeah, not quite the same. Several even make theories that Scott (notably after Jean was brainwashing him to love her despite there being not a shred of evidence, just a single instance the victim of telepathic flirtation which is presented as such. ** It doesn't help that Jean has no real MindRape)? Well, we haven't seen enough of her personality beyond simply to know what she's normally like, so who's to say that people are wrong to see it that way?\\ \\ Is she overly flirtatious with Logan and basically emotionally controlling Scott, or is she just being voiced friendly to the new guy who was just attacked by Creator/JenniferHale and her boyfriend? Again, not enough character to know one way or another.\\ \\ Is she mentally controlling Scott to love him? Well, she has very been shown to use her powers by accident before. And it ''would'' explain why Scott is so dysfunctional without her. But she is so much of a non-entity in the show, and we see so little screen time of their relationship, that we can't know either way.\\ \\ Since Jean is at the core of so many of the most criticized aspects of this show, and yet has so little personality and character, it becomes very easy for viewers to boot. decide that she's the villain.
10th Sep '15 5:53:35 PM MarkLungo
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** Jean throwing Emma up against a wall with telekinesis, binding her there with pipes, coldly saying "You'll pay for what you've done." It's supposed to be chilling but JenniferHale gives such a flat reading that the threat means nothing, and the "angry" expression on Jean's face is just silly. ** Pretty much any scene where Cyclops yells, due mostly to the normally reliable (though miscast) NolanNorth going very over the top with it - though given the overall characterization of Cyclops he probably had no other option. ** Cyclops's whole characterization and in particular his origin episode ''Breakdown'' is so full of {{Narm}} it almost isn't funny.
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** Jean throwing Emma up against a wall with telekinesis, binding her there with pipes, coldly saying "You'll pay for what you've done." It's supposed to be chilling chilling, but JenniferHale Creator/JenniferHale gives such a flat reading that the threat means nothing, and the "angry" expression on Jean's face is just silly. ** Pretty much any scene where Cyclops yells, due mostly to the normally reliable (though miscast) NolanNorth Creator/NolanNorth going very over the top with it - though given the overall characterization of Cyclops he probably had no other option. ** Cyclops's whole characterization and in particular his origin episode ''Breakdown'' "Breakdown" is so full of {{Narm}} it almost isn't funny.
7th Jul '15 11:52:56 AM Scabbard
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* UglyCute -
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* UglyCute - UglyCute:
7th Jul '15 11:51:54 AM Scabbard
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* RonTheDeathEater: Boy, does Jean get no end of this. It seems there's not a single action she's done in the show she hasn't been condemned for when many actions are actually quite understandable. Her so-called hypocrisy of being pissed at Cyclops shooting a guy in the back in retaliation for a ''taunt'' of her being interested in him, a lie, as compared to her getting pissed and tying someone down for full-on making out with her ''unconscious'' boyfriend.(Which, admittedly was one of those "I might never get the chance" type of things, but she sure didn't know that and most don't take the time to ask questions when they see someone macking with their unconscious lover.) Her action towards Wolverine, which the former is often compared to? Blowing Wolvie a kiss. After Cyke blasted the guy in the back, rudely confronted her and insisted on having a talk instead of apologizing for losing it (well, Cyclops does apologize to her, just not to Wolverine). Yeah, not quite the same. Several even make theories that Jean was brainwashing him to love her despite there being not a shred of evidence, just a single instance of telepathic flirtation which is presented as such.
to:
* RonTheDeathEater: Boy, does Jean get no end of this. It seems there's not a single action she's done in the show she hasn't been condemned for when many actions are actually quite understandable. Her so-called hypocrisy of being pissed at Cyclops shooting a guy in the back in retaliation for a ''taunt'' of her being interested in him, a lie, as compared to her getting pissed and tying someone down for full-on making out with her ''unconscious'' boyfriend. (Which, admittedly was one of those "I might never get the chance" type of things, but she sure didn't know that and most don't take the time to ask questions when they see someone macking with their unconscious lover.) Her action towards Wolverine, which the former is often compared to? Blowing Wolvie a kiss. After Cyke blasted the guy in the back, rudely confronted her and insisted on having a talk instead of apologizing for losing it (well, Cyclops does apologize to her, just not to Wolverine). Yeah, not quite the same. Several even make theories that Jean was brainwashing him to love her despite there being not a shred of evidence, just a single instance of telepathic flirtation which is presented as such.
7th Jul '15 11:49:49 AM Scabbard
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* OneSceneWonder: Colossus (Due to the show being ScrewedByTheNetwork).
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* OneSceneWonder: Colossus (Due (due to the show being ScrewedByTheNetwork).
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