History YMMV / WolverineAndTheXMen

6th Jun '17 5:29:23 PM Manny20444
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** Fans absolutely ''hated'' this version of Cyclops for not being portrayed as the StandardizedLeader that he usually is portrayed as in the comics and other adaptations.

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** Fans absolutely ''hated'' this version of Cyclops for not being portrayed as the StandardizedLeader that he usually is portrayed as in the comics and other most adaptations.



** Storm is not only one of the most powerful X-Men, but also one of the group's leaders. In various continuities she has lead the team when Xavier or Cyclops can't. While her not becoming leader makes sense to the plot (she wasn't present when Xavier made Wolverine leader) you would think her leadership skills would make her a valuable second in command. That role falls to Beast, who never gets to do much with it either. Sadly Storm ends up one of the least developed characters on the show with no notable story arcs and no real reason to be there at all. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter indeed.

to:

** Storm is not only one of the most powerful X-Men, but also one of the group's leaders. In various continuities continuities, she has lead the team when Xavier or Cyclops can't. While her not becoming leader makes sense to the plot (she wasn't present when Xavier made Wolverine leader) you would think her leadership skills would make her a valuable second in command. That role falls to Beast, who never gets to do much with it either. Sadly Storm ends up one of the least developed characters on the show with no notable story arcs and no real reason to be there at all. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter indeed.
16th May '17 9:43:29 AM Manny20444
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** The fact that Storm was demoted to an background character did not sit well with fans. Neither did the fact that Professor Xavier and Jean Grey were reduced to plot devices.
** Fans also ''despised'' the fact that Cyclops here was not portrayed as the StandardizedLeader that he usually is portrayed as in the comics and other adaptations.

to:

** The fact that Storm was demoted to an background character did not sit well with fans. Neither fans, nor did the fact that Professor Xavier and Jean Grey were reduced to plot devices.
** Fans also ''despised'' the fact that absolutely ''hated'' this version of Cyclops here was for not being portrayed as the StandardizedLeader that he usually is portrayed as in the comics and other adaptations.
16th May '17 9:15:29 AM Manny20444
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Added DiffLines:

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: '''Dear Lord'''! Fans were ''not'' happy about Cyclops and Wolverine's role swap.
** The fact that Storm was demoted to an background character did not sit well with fans. Neither did the fact that Professor Xavier and Jean Grey were reduced to plot devices.
** Fans also ''despised'' the fact that Cyclops here was not portrayed as the StandardizedLeader that he usually is portrayed as in the comics and other adaptations.
14th May '17 7:25:01 PM Manny20444
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*** The cause of this particular broken base is almost certainly the flashbacks of Cyclops. Before that, he was shown to be a broken man who was understandably grief stricken over the violent disappearance (and possible death) of his long time girlfriend, but everyone talked about how in the old days he held the team together. But from the flashbacks, we see that he was ''always'' a loser. From day 1, he was never the responsible, respected leader of the X-Men. So instead of being the leader who collapsed after the loss of Jean, he was the loser who managed to snag a hot chick, then attacked anyone who even looked at her, and reverted to his loser status the moment she was gone.

to:

*** The cause of this particular broken base is almost certainly the flashbacks of Cyclops. Before that, he was shown to be a broken man who was understandably grief stricken over the violent disappearance (and possible death) of his long time girlfriend, but everyone talked about how in the old days he held the team together. But from the flashbacks, we see that he was ''always'' a loser. From day 1, he was never the responsible, respected leader of the X-Men. So instead of being the leader who collapsed after the loss of Jean, he was the loser who somehow managed to snag a hot chick, then attacked anyone who even looked at her, and reverted to his loser status the moment she was gone.
5th Apr '17 12:45:48 AM ACW
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** Sebastian Shaw, from the final 4 episodes, and Selene (Gallio), from the final 2 episodes, are the leaders of the Inner Circle, a group dedicated to destroying the Phoenix Force, a potentially destructive cosmic entity, in order to save humanity. They send Emma Frost and her students, the Stepford Cuckoos, to Xavier's school to incapacitate Xavier and capture Jean Grey. Their psychic attack causes the Phoenix Force to go nuts and blow up the school, putting Xavier into a coma and giving Jean amnesia for most of the series. Emma tricks the X-Men into letting her join. At first she is just a spy, but she soon grows to care about the X-Men. The X-Men eventually find Jean, but Emma knocks them out and delivers Jean to the Inner Circle. However Shaw and Selene reveal [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist they do not plan to destroy the Phoenix]], but harvest its power for their own selfish purposes, endangering the whole planet to just satisfy their power lust. They plan to trick Jean into releasing the Phoenix Force and then having the Stepford Cuckoos absorb it, endangering their lives in the process. Selene also reveals to Cyclops that Emma was responsible for the explosion at the school, [[KickTheDog just to rub salt in Emma's wounds]]. After the Stepford Cuckoos absorb the Phoenix Force, Shaw orders them to kill all the X-Men and burn Genosha to the ground. Their actions lead to the Phoenix Force destroying most of humanity and setting up the BadFuture Xavier finds himself in, when he wakes up.

to:

** Sebastian Shaw, from the final 4 episodes, and Selene (Gallio), from the final 2 episodes, are the leaders of the Inner Circle, a group dedicated to destroying the Phoenix Force, a potentially destructive cosmic entity, in order to save humanity. They send Emma Frost and her students, the Stepford Cuckoos, to Xavier's school to incapacitate Xavier and capture Jean Grey. Their psychic attack causes the Phoenix Force to go nuts and blow up the school, putting Xavier into a coma and giving Jean amnesia for most of the series. Emma tricks the X-Men into letting her join. At first she is just a spy, but she soon grows to care about the X-Men. The X-Men eventually find Jean, but Emma knocks them out and delivers Jean to the Inner Circle. However Shaw and Selene reveal [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist they do not plan to destroy the Phoenix]], but harvest its power for their own selfish purposes, endangering the whole planet to just to satisfy their power lust. They plan to trick Jean into releasing the Phoenix Force and then having the Stepford Cuckoos absorb it, endangering their lives in the process. Selene also reveals to Cyclops that Emma was responsible for the explosion at the school, [[KickTheDog just to rub salt in Emma's wounds]]. After the Stepford Cuckoos absorb the Phoenix Force, Shaw orders them to kill all the X-Men and burn Genosha to the ground. Their actions lead to the Phoenix Force destroying most of humanity and setting up the BadFuture Xavier finds himself in, when he wakes up.
2nd Apr '17 2:09:33 PM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: The Shadow King, from "Overflow," is a cruel and merciless telepathic mutant who forced a child Storm to be a thief and would berate and threaten her if she did not bring back enough stolen goods. Xavier befriended Storm and defeated the Shadow King. Though his body was destroyed fighting Xavier, his evil spirit lived on and he gained the ability to possess others and force them to do things against their will. When we first see Shadow King in the present, he has possessed a starving man in a desert. When another man comes to help this starving man, The Shadow King possesses the good Samaritan and leaves his original victim to die in the desert. Shadow King later possess Storm herself and forces her to use her WeatherManipulation powers to destroy all Africa, simply to spite her.

to:

* CompleteMonster: The CompleteMonster:
**The [[DarkIsEvil
Shadow King, King]], real name Amahl Farouk, from "Overflow," is a cruel and merciless telepathic mutant who forced a child the young Storm to be a thief and would berate and threaten her if she did not bring back enough stolen goods. Xavier befriended Storm and defeated the Shadow King. Though his body was destroyed fighting Xavier, his evil spirit lived on and he gained the ability to [[DemonicPossession possess others and force them to do things against their will.will]]. When we first see Shadow King in the present, he has possessed a starving man in a desert. When another man comes to help this starving man, The Shadow King possesses the good Samaritan and leaves his original victim to die in the desert. Shadow King later possess Storm herself and forces her to use her WeatherManipulation powers to destroy all Africa, simply to spite her. her.
**Sebastian Shaw, from the final 4 episodes, and Selene (Gallio), from the final 2 episodes, are the leaders of the Inner Circle, a group dedicated to destroying the Phoenix Force, a potentially destructive cosmic entity, in order to save humanity. They send Emma Frost and her students, the Stepford Cuckoos, to Xavier's school to incapacitate Xavier and capture Jean Grey. Their psychic attack causes the Phoenix Force to go nuts and blow up the school, putting Xavier into a coma and giving Jean amnesia for most of the series. Emma tricks the X-Men into letting her join. At first she is just a spy, but she soon grows to care about the X-Men. The X-Men eventually find Jean, but Emma knocks them out and delivers Jean to the Inner Circle. However Shaw and Selene reveal [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist they do not plan to destroy the Phoenix]], but harvest its power for their own selfish purposes, endangering the whole planet to just satisfy their power lust. They plan to trick Jean into releasing the Phoenix Force and then having the Stepford Cuckoos absorb it, endangering their lives in the process. Selene also reveals to Cyclops that Emma was responsible for the explosion at the school, [[KickTheDog just to rub salt in Emma's wounds]]. After the Stepford Cuckoos absorb the Phoenix Force, Shaw orders them to kill all the X-Men and burn Genosha to the ground. Their actions lead to the Phoenix Force destroying most of humanity and setting up the BadFuture Xavier finds himself in, when he wakes up.
22nd Jan '17 2:59:00 PM Manny20444
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* TheWoobie: while all the X-Men and even their enemies have had their ups and downs (just ask Nightcrawler) the origin episode ''Breakdown'' goes to great lengths to portray Cyclops as having had a particularly crappy life - lost his parents in a plane crash an early age, separated from his brother, stuck in a coma for two years (in this show's continuity), victim of bullying and physical abuse at the group home he was placed in, mocked and ridiculed by his first class teammates for being clumsy, nearly punked to death by Magneto, cast aside by his mentor and foster father Xavier, left to waste away in misery by the teammates who were supposedly his friends, and even having his own girlfriend Jean Grey turn against him when he got mad and sucker punched Wolverine for hitting on her (true, she got back together with him at the end, but even that was implied to be a loss rather than a gain on his part). And yet despite all of that he ''STILL'' comes across as an unsympathetic character. Granted, the X-Men often act like they don't care about him, so that's certainly not helping.

to:

* TheWoobie: while all the X-Men and even their enemies have had their ups and downs (just ask Nightcrawler) the origin episode ''Breakdown'' goes to great lengths to portray Cyclops as having had a particularly crappy life - (presumably) lost his parents in a plane crash an early age, separated from his brother, stuck in a coma for two years (in this show's continuity), victim of bullying and physical abuse at the group home he was placed in, mocked and ridiculed by his first class teammates for being clumsy, nearly punked to death by Magneto, cast aside by his mentor and foster father Xavier, left to waste away in misery by the teammates who were supposedly his friends, and even having his own girlfriend Jean Grey turn against him when he got mad and sucker punched Wolverine for hitting on her (true, she got back together with him at the end, but even that was implied to be a loss rather than a gain on his part). And yet despite all of that he ''STILL'' comes across as an unsympathetic character. Granted, the X-Men often act like they don't care about him, so that's certainly not helping.
3rd Dec '16 12:31:13 PM WJTaylor4
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*** The cause of this particular broken base is almost certainly the flashbacks of Cyclops. Before that, he was shown to be a broken man, but everyone talked about how in the old days he held the team together. But from the flashbacks, we see that he was ''always'' a loser. From day 1, he was never the responsible, respected leader of the X-Men. So instead of being the leader who collapsed after the loss of Jean, he was the loser who managed to snag a hot chick, then attacked anyone who even looked at her, and reverted to his loser status the moment she was gone.

to:

*** The cause of this particular broken base is almost certainly the flashbacks of Cyclops. Before that, he was shown to be a broken man, man who was understandably grief stricken over the violent disappearance (and possible death) of his long time girlfriend, but everyone talked about how in the old days he held the team together. But from the flashbacks, we see that he was ''always'' a loser. From day 1, he was never the responsible, respected leader of the X-Men. So instead of being the leader who collapsed after the loss of Jean, he was the loser who managed to snag a hot chick, then attacked anyone who even looked at her, and reverted to his loser status the moment she was gone.
17th Sep '16 8:03:21 AM DesertDragon
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** Storm is not only one of the most powerful X-Men, but also one of the group's leaders. In various continuities she has lead the team when Xavier or Cyclops can't. While her not becoming leader makes sense to the plot (she wasn't present when Xavier made Wolverine leader) you would think her leadership skills would make her a valuable second in command. That role falls to Beast, who never gets to do much with it either. Sadly Storm ends up one of the least developed characters on the show with no notable story arcs. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter indeed.

to:

** Storm is not only one of the most powerful X-Men, but also one of the group's leaders. In various continuities she has lead the team when Xavier or Cyclops can't. While her not becoming leader makes sense to the plot (she wasn't present when Xavier made Wolverine leader) you would think her leadership skills would make her a valuable second in command. That role falls to Beast, who never gets to do much with it either. Sadly Storm ends up one of the least developed characters on the show with no notable story arcs.arcs and no real reason to be there at all. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter indeed.
20th Aug '16 8:43:19 PM TheNewBig
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** Similarly, is Cyclops really a FallenHero and HeartbrokenBadass struggling to put his life back together, or is he just a chump who rode other people's coat tails? Or even worse, is he a violent, TooDumbToLive, psychopathic {{Yandere}} ManChild, crippled by an unhealthy relationship from his teen years that he should have outgrown? Or does he just need a hug? There's really not a lot of evidence to back him up as the X-Men's former leader or any kind of competent hero or even a decent boyfriend for either Jean Grey or Emma Frost. For that matter, was Cyclops ever really in love with Jean or was Jean just mind-raping him the whole time? And was he ever really close to Professor Xavier, or was Xavier just mind-raping him as well?

to:

** Similarly, is Cyclops really a FallenHero and HeartbrokenBadass struggling to put his life back together, or is he just a chump who rode other people's coat tails? Or even worse, is he a violent, TooDumbToLive, psychopathic {{Yandere}} ManChild, crippled by an unhealthy relationship from his teen years that he should have outgrown? Or does he just need a hug? There's really not a lot of evidence to back him up as the X-Men's former leader or any kind of competent hero or even a decent boyfriend for either Jean Grey or Emma Frost. For that matter, was Cyclops ever really in love with Jean or was Jean just mind-raping him the whole time? And was he ever really close to Professor Xavier, or was Xavier just mind-raping him as well?



* DesignatedVillain: Weirdly enough, Cyclops seems to qualify for this as well (or alternately DesignatedEvil). The flashbacks of ''Breakdown'' reveal that when Wolverine first arrived at the Xavier Institute he hit on Jean Grey almost immediately with no regard for whether or not she was in already in a relationship, and then proceeds to mock and taunt Cyclops, which then leads to Cyclops blasting him repeatedly until Jean got in the way and chastised him, saying Wolverine wouldn't fight back because he promised her he wouldn't fight Cyclops. Now sucker blasting Wolverine when the clawed one wouldn't fight back - and apparently when he'd only been there for like a night - doesn't portray Cyclops in the best light, but ''Wolverine'' was the one who went after Jean, acting like a horny biker guy more interested in a hot one night stand than in anything resembling true love, ''AND'' it was Wolverine who was clearly goading Cyclops into a fight. The look in his eyes, the tone of his voice, Wolverine was clearly daring Cyclops to take a swing at him, probably figuring he was all bark and no bite (which turned out to be hilariously wrong) so... how exactly is Cyclops the bad guy here?
** Crosses over into TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter too, as this could have been the moment Wolverine learned to respect Cyclops and establish a VitriolicBestBuds relationship.

to:

* DesignatedVillain: Weirdly enough, Cyclops seems to qualify for this as well (or alternately DesignatedEvil). The flashbacks of ''Breakdown'' reveal that when Wolverine first arrived at the Xavier Institute he hit on Jean Grey almost immediately with no regard for whether or not she was in already in a relationship, and then proceeds to mock and taunt Cyclops, which then leads to Cyclops blasting him repeatedly until Jean got in the way and chastised him, saying Wolverine wouldn't fight back because he promised her he wouldn't fight Cyclops. Now sucker blasting Wolverine when in the clawed one wouldn't fight back - and apparently when he'd only been there for like nothing more than a night - petty jab doesn't portray Cyclops in the best light, but ''Wolverine'' was the one who went after Jean, acting like a horny biker guy more interested in a hot one night stand than in anything resembling true love, ''AND'' it was Wolverine who was clearly goading Cyclops into a fight. The look in his eyes, the tone of his voice, Wolverine was clearly daring Cyclops to take a swing at him, probably figuring he was all bark and no bite (which turned out to be hilariously wrong) so... how exactly is Cyclops the bad guy here?
** Crosses over into TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter too, as this could have been the moment Wolverine learned to respect Cyclops and establish a VitriolicBestBuds relationship.
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* EvilIsSexy: Selene and, if one considers them evil, Domino and [[spoiler:Rogue]]. Also Sybil Zane.

to:

* EvilIsSexy: Selene and, if one considers them evil, Selene, Domino and [[spoiler:Rogue]]. Also Sybil Zane.



*** His actions with Wolverine were particularly idiotic. Wolverine's getting a little too cozy with his girl, and he makes some not-too-sublte remarks about his worthiness. Instead of making some remarks of his own like pretty much every other version has done, or suggesting they fight it out, he shoots him in the back, full blast, predictably pissing off Jean, and making Wolverine respect him even less with his cowardly attack.

to:

*** His actions with Wolverine were particularly idiotic. Wolverine's getting a little too cozy with his girl, and he makes some not-too-sublte not-too-subtle remarks about his worthiness. Instead of making some remarks of his own like pretty much every other version of the character has done, or suggesting they fight it out, he shoots him in the back, full blast, predictably pissing off Jean, and making Wolverine respect him even less with his cowardly attack.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.WolverineAndTheXMen