History YMMV / Watchmen

9th Oct '17 1:29:25 AM JulianLapostat
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* CommonKnowledge:
** It is common knowledge that ''Watchmen'' only exists because Moore couldn't do the story with Charlton Comics creations. In fact, as Moore pointed out, his original plan involved MLJ Heroes published by Archie Comics, with The Shield slated to be the murder victim that brings the heroes together. Moore turned to Charlton when DC didn't have the rights for the MLJ heroes, and the only reason Moore wanted to adapt previously existing characters was for similar reasons as ''ComicBook/{{Miracleman}}'' (namely that he wanted the characters, however obscure, to have a history and legacy that would make his treatment of them really tragic). Moore noted that once he started work on ''Watchmen'', he rapidly stepped away from the Charlton-MLJ-related concept.
** Likewise, it is common to assume that ''Watchmen'' killed off the goofier, more idealistic [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] type stories for some time, nevermind that the Silver Age was over for nearly ten years by that point. As critic Lance Parkin notes, it's actually closer in visual style to the Silver Age era than the GrimDark books that would follow. Furthermore, as successful as ''Watchmen'' was, it was not by any means the great blockbuster that people imagine it. It was outsold by Creator/JohnByrne's ''ComicBook/TheManOfSteel'' and not nearly as successful as ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns''. Something like ''ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily'' and especially ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' probably had a bigger cultural and editorial impact on the darkening of comics than ''Watchmen'' did.
2nd Oct '17 9:56:21 AM DustSnitch
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** Similarly, because of ''Watchmen''[='=]s status as a SacredCow, [[spoiler: TheReveal in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' that Dr. Manhattan's the true cause of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' has split the fandom, with some thinking it's a good idea and a good way to incorporate the series into DC canon and others thinking it's a horrible idea, and a middle finger to Alan Moore and/or even the series itself, and in any case, since it's happening nearly three decades after ''Watchmen'', is way too late for it to have meaning.]]

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** Similarly, because of ''Watchmen''[='=]s status as a SacredCow, [[spoiler: TheReveal in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' that Dr. Manhattan's the true cause of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' has split the fandom, with some thinking it's a good idea and a good way to incorporate the series into DC canon and others thinking it's a horrible idea, and a middle finger to Alan Moore and/or even the series itself, and in any case, since it's happening nearly three decades after ''Watchmen'', is way too late for it to have meaning.]]
22nd Sep '17 11:10:48 AM JulianLapostat
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* {{Misblamed}}: A number of comics fans, and helped initially by Creator/AlanMoore's own SelfDeprecation have blamed ''Watchmen'' for the Dark Age of Comics, and the Non-Canon ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' uses as a central conceit that ''Watchmen'' ruined the DC Universe and made everyone DarkerAndEdgier:
** Dave Gibbons has recently argued against this:
--> '''Dave Gibbons''': "Well the way, I mean, the way I understand it is that somehow Watchmen are being blamed for the darkness of the DC Universe, and somehow this latest story thing that DC are doing is a way that the DC Universe breaks free of the lying influence of the Watchmen characters...It was the fact that American writers adopted a particular take, that Alan and I took on superheroes. It’s the blame there, and certainly, we were never saying that this is how superhero comics should be done. In fact, the next thing we would’ve done after Watchmen would’ve been something like Captain Marvel, you know, something really light and mythical.”
** Lance Parkin, Creator/AlanMoore's biographer also pointed out that in practical terms, ''Watchmen'' was not as influential or impactful as people think it was. While the comic sold well and earned much critical acclaim, it was outsold by John Byrne's ''ComicBook/TheManOfSteel'' series, and ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' was a bigger cultural impact and event than ''Watchmen'' was, and it would be hard to say that Moore inspired either comics. For one thing, Creator/JohnByrne, the author of ''The Man of Steel'' is not a fan of Moore and has stated that he doesn't care for his works, while ''The Death of Superman'' was more or less an editorial improvisation as a result of shenanigans over ''Series/LoisAndClark'' and not any ''Watchmen'' inspired event (and Moore, as the author of ''ComicBook/WhateverHappenedToTheManOfTomorrow'' had a vastly different attitude to Superman in any case). In terms of what people think of as the worst part of UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComics i.e. GenericDoomsdayVillain, DeathIsCheap, more violence and {{Gorn}} than usual, the Death of Superman is more representative of the Dark Age and more influential than ''Watchmen'' is, considering [[ComicBook/{{Knightfall}} the]] [[Comicbook/SuperiorSpiderMan number]] [[ComicBook/SecretEmpire of imitations]] or SpiritualSuccessor it has spawned.
21st Sep '17 12:51:28 PM renenarciso2
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** Derf and his Knot Tops pals obliterated the line when they assaulted Hollis Mason and after hitting him, Derf crushed his head with his own trophy all because they mistook him for the new Night-Owl.

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** Derf and his Knot Tops pals obliterated the line when they assaulted Hollis Mason and after hitting him, Derf crushed his head with his own trophy all because they mistook him for the new Night-Owl.Nite Owl.
21st Sep '17 12:50:11 PM renenarciso2
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** It's implied that [[spoiler: Veidt]] thinks of the [[spoiler: the murder of the manservants]] in particular as his own personal Horizon crossing, since it's the only thing he lies about during his MotiveRant.

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** It's implied that [[spoiler: Veidt]] thinks of the [[spoiler: the murder of the manservants]] in particular as his own personal Horizon crossing, since it's the only thing he lies about during his MotiveRant.
13th Sep '17 9:13:30 AM JulianLapostat
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** Rorschach is a sympathetic character but not a role model.

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** Rorschach is a sympathetic character but not a role model. We are supposed to appreciate him as a human being, WartsAndAll, but ''not'' see him as a superhero since he's not very competent at his job.
10th Aug '17 2:21:04 PM JulianLapostat
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** In many ways, DC themselves have much to blame since after the publication and end of the series, the president of DC, Paul Levitz, and other editors refused to let Watchmen spin-off into other parts of the DC Comics, and this continued until the Creator/ZackSnyder film. Many note that if DC had done this earlier, it would have still provoked controversy, but since this was still pre-Internet it wouldn't have had a backlash. In that time, ''Watchmen'' has become a canonical work of comics and culture, inspiring other works like ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' and ''Series/{{Lost}}'' as well as general PopCulturalOsmosis, which means that there's an entire generation (not quite old) for whom ''Watchmen'' is and always has been a standalone work.

to:

** In many ways, DC themselves have much to blame since after the publication and end of the series, the president of DC, Paul Levitz, and other editors refused to let Watchmen spin-off into other parts of the DC Comics, and this continued until the Creator/ZackSnyder film. Many note that if DC had done this earlier, it would have still provoked controversy, but since this was still pre-Internet it wouldn't have had a backlash. In that time, ''Watchmen'' has become a canonical work of comics and culture, inspiring other works like ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' and ''Series/{{Lost}}'' as well as general PopCulturalOsmosis, which means that there's an entire generation (not quite old) for whom ''Watchmen'' is and always has been a standalone work. work, a classic on the same merit as ''Literature/GravitysRainbow'' or ''Film/TaxiDriver'' and ''Film/TheGodfather'' and a sequel without the original creative team is about as acceptable as a sequel to any classic without the original team would be.
10th Aug '17 2:18:45 PM JulianLapostat
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** Similarly, because of ''Watchmen''[='=]s status as a SacredCow, [[spoiler: TheReveal in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' that Dr. Manhattan's the true cause of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' has split the fandom, with some thinking it's a good idea and a good way to incorporate the series into DC canon and others thinking it's a horrible idea, and a middle finger to Alan Moore and/or even the series itself.]]

to:

** Similarly, because of ''Watchmen''[='=]s status as a SacredCow, [[spoiler: TheReveal in ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' that Dr. Manhattan's the true cause of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' has split the fandom, with some thinking it's a good idea and a good way to incorporate the series into DC canon and others thinking it's a horrible idea, and a middle finger to Alan Moore and/or even the series itself.itself, and in any case, since it's happening nearly three decades after ''Watchmen'', is way too late for it to have meaning.]]



* FanonDiscontinuity: The prequel comics for many fans, and Moore himself has severe CreatorBacklash and while Dave Gibbons is supportive of the staff he has stated that the only canon for the stories is what was written by Moore and drawn by him.

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* FanonDiscontinuity: The default attitude by fans to the comics and any part of the lore not written by Creator/AlanMoore and/or drawn by Dave Gibbons.
** This includes the movie adaptation, the
prequel comics for many fans, and comics, the upcoming ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'' where Watchmen is set to be folded over into the main continuity. Moore himself has severe CreatorBacklash to how he was treated by DC and promises to "spit venom" on any followups, and while Dave Gibbons is supportive of respectful and cordial to the staff and creative team, he has stated that the only canon for the stories is what was written by Moore and drawn by him.him:
--> '''Dave Gibbons''': ''I didn’t have a lot of input in it. To me anything to do with the movies – as far as I’m concerned, what Alan and I did was the Watchmen graphic novel and a couple of illustrations that came out at the same time. Everything else – the movie, the game, the [laugh] prequels – are really not canon. They’re subsidiary. They’re not really Watchmen. They’re just something different.''
** In many ways, DC themselves have much to blame since after the publication and end of the series, the president of DC, Paul Levitz, and other editors refused to let Watchmen spin-off into other parts of the DC Comics, and this continued until the Creator/ZackSnyder film. Many note that if DC had done this earlier, it would have still provoked controversy, but since this was still pre-Internet it wouldn't have had a backlash. In that time, ''Watchmen'' has become a canonical work of comics and culture, inspiring other works like ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' and ''Series/{{Lost}}'' as well as general PopCulturalOsmosis, which means that there's an entire generation (not quite old) for whom ''Watchmen'' is and always has been a standalone work.
2nd Aug '17 11:51:38 PM KingClark
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----



* FashionVictimVillain: Subverted- like David Bowie in ''Film/{{Labyrinth}}'', [[spoiler: Matthew Goode as Ozymandias has the uncanny ability to be put in some rather ridiculous outfits (purple suits? Egregious floppy EightiesHair? A supersuit [[Film/BatmanAndRobin with]] ''[[Creator/JoelSchumacher nipples]]''?)]] and nevertheless look good enough to make otherwise rational straight women and gay men {{squee}} their brains out from all the PerverseSexualLust he creates. Then again, he comes ''dangerously'' close to a male example of PowerHair.

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* FashionVictimVillain: FashionVictimVillain:
**
Subverted- like David Bowie in ''Film/{{Labyrinth}}'', [[spoiler: Matthew Goode as Ozymandias has the uncanny ability to be put in some rather ridiculous outfits (purple suits? Egregious floppy EightiesHair? A supersuit [[Film/BatmanAndRobin with]] ''[[Creator/JoelSchumacher nipples]]''?)]] and nevertheless look good enough to make otherwise rational straight women and gay men {{squee}} their brains out from all the PerverseSexualLust he creates. Then again, he comes ''dangerously'' close to a male example of PowerHair.



* FetishRetardant: The sex scene with Music/LeonardCohen's "Hallelujah" playing in the background. Zack Snyder claimed that it was deliberate, since the big-wigs wanted a steamy sex scene - they decided to placate them, while turning up the cheese factor UpToEleven.
* FridgeBrilliance: During the opening credits, it has Neil Armstrong on the moon and says "Good Luck Mr. Gorsky." There's an UrbanLegend that his neighbor said the day the neighbor kid went to space is the day his wife would give him oral sex. Since this film takes place in an alternate timeline, it goes from confusing to clever.

to:

* FetishRetardant: The sex scene with Music/LeonardCohen's "Hallelujah" playing in the background. Zack Snyder claimed that it was deliberate, since the big-wigs wanted a steamy sex scene - -- they decided to placate them, while turning up the cheese factor UpToEleven.
* FridgeBrilliance: FridgeBrilliance:
**
During the opening credits, it has Neil Armstrong on the moon and says "Good Luck Mr. Gorsky." There's an UrbanLegend that his neighbor said the day the neighbor kid went to space is the day his wife would give him oral sex. Since this film takes place in an alternate timeline, it goes from confusing to clever.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks:
** One of the two biggest complaints about the movie. ([[MortonsFork The other being]] [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks that they DIDN'T change it]]).

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* TheyChangedItNowItSucks:
**
SignatureScene: The opening montage set to "[[Music/BobDylan The Times, They Are A-Changin']]". Even people who otherwise can't stand this adaptation admit that it's a brilliant sequence.
* TheyChangedItNowItSucks:
One of the two biggest complaints about the movie. ([[MortonsFork The other being]] [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks that they DIDN'T change it]]).
14th Jun '17 11:50:54 AM neander7hal
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** Regardless of whether he exists outside of time now, the fact that the 30-year-old-looking Manhattan goes after 16-year-old Laurie is hella creepy.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Watchmen