History YMMV / Unwind

30th Jan '16 10:52:32 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* FridgeBrilliance: Since so much of Lev's character comes from his belief in and devotion to God, it only seems fitting that he gets a CrucifiedHeroShot [[spoiler:when his arms are lashed to a crossbeam and stretched out so he can't clap and blow himself up]].
* FridgeLogic: How is this a viable alternative to abortion? If anything, the new system seems ''worse.''
** To be exact, it is worse, in every possible way. It eliminates the health and economic benefits of an abortion by requiring the child be born and raised to age thirteen, and the people who can't afford to raise a child in the first place turn to storking (god help you if you were raped.) Furthermore, the abortion issue is primarily based on whether or not an embryo is technically alive; here, the argument over the morality of killing someone who's ''potentially'' alive is somehow resolved by killing someone who's ''obviously'' alive. How did this ever pass as an option?
*** That was the whole point. It was sarcastically proposed by the military during the Heartland War to show both sides how ridiculous they were being, and they were shocked when both sides not only took it seriously but accepted and demanded it as the only possible compromise they could both agree on.
**** So, it's a combination of LogicalFallacy and PoesLaw, extended to an entire country.
** The in-universe answer to "How is it better?" is that, so long as every part of an unwind is used, that person is still physically alive. They rationalize it, therefore, as not killing anyone. In fact, those who support the procedure are offended when unwinding is described as "murder," or its end result as "death." They argue that in fact, it promotes life by allowing ill or injured people to live longer and function better, and by giving otherwise valueless people a purpose. Even some unwinds agree: Samson, a minor character who appears early in the book, says he would rather be partly useful (for transplant organs) than completely useless (as he feels he is otherwise).
*** But it actually makes things worse because now the doctors are lazy: why find a cure when you can replace it with a healthy one? [[spoiler: When the Admiral had a heart attack, the hospital staff specifically said that they didn't know how to treat him without giving him the heart transplant he refused]]! [[ThePlague Say there was an deadly disease that affected every part of the body.]] [[FridgeHorror How would the doctors be able find a cure if they only know how to do transplants?]] They'd be useless, one-trick ponies and everyone would die!
*** Well, 1) The old skills aren't completely lost (the doctor ''did'' know how to do open-heart surgery on the Admiral; she just said it wasn't as effective an option), though they haven't developed beyond about present-day levels; 2) In the situation you cite, in the Unwind-verse the obvious solution would be to find someone who's naturally immune to the illness (there's always someone) and "unwind" them for their antibody-laden blood -- poof! a vaccine; 3) People have a remarkable, and depressing, ability to settle for the best short-term solution, often without an eye to the long-term. If they can just replace damaged hearts with new ones, they'll consider the problem solved, even if they might have developed other/better solutions.
** Exactly how would unwinding fit with either side of the argument? I suppose you could make it a far-fetched strawman parody of the pro-choice position if the setting not only kept abortion legal, but extended the right to it by ruling that an embryo is not a person until the 68th trimester (plus there might have to be the rule that only the mother gets to make the choice, not the father.) But that's not what is presented in the story; and in real life even the most ardent pro-choice activists agree that an already born baby is a person, and has a right to life that can trump the mother's best interests. And I don't see how allowing parents to order the deaths of their 13-16 year-old is in any way an extrapolation of pro-life arguments; as mentioned above, the debate is whether an embryo counts as a person. If people in the setting accept that parents may order a 16-year old harvested for their organs and technically they aren't actually dead from the process, there's no reason a 3rd trimester embryo couldn't get the same treatment. (I dunno, maybe the author assumes the pro-life position is "We like to oppress women for the evulz"? Unwinding might be consistent with that.) TL;DR: it doesn't sound like the author is satirizing either position at all well.
*** Unwinding '''doesn't''' fit with either side of the argument. That's the point being made here; not that the system is a satire of pro-life or pro-choice mindsets, but that it exists outside of the two, in some absurd "compromise" that contains all the negative aspects of both arguments, and none of the positive aspects.
** The second book finally gives an answer: [[spoiler:protesting teens during the war were victimized and all but forced into violence, and the government passed the Unwind Accords in order to have an officially-sanctioned excuse to put them down forever. Which is the real reason why the history classes never teach the Heartland War - otherwise, the kids will be able to protest again, and this time they might be able to pull off a win.]]
** Another example of FridgeLogic: Would Risa have the legal right to [[spoiler: refuse a transplant, when a transplant would make her eligible for unwinding]]? She was a ward of the state, and youths consigned to unwinding are effectively property of the state.
*** The best answer I can think of is that no one wants to waste time giving her [[spoiler: a transplant]] when it would just mean she would be unwound afterwards. It's like curing a criminal's cancer right before their execution.
*** Ward of the State or no, Risa is almost an adult. Even though she's technically a minor, her rights and opinions still matter to the doctors. Like if a teenage christian scientist came into the ER and didn't want treatment the doctors would be obligated to listen to them.
* FridgeHorror: in [=UnSouled=], Lev says that Native Americans (or [[FutureSlang ChanceFolk]]) don't use Unwind parts. Instead, they use parts from their spirit animals. Although new medical technology probably makes people able to accept parts from other humans with no reaction from the immune system, this probably means that it could extend to animals. This leads to some more little nuggets of terror.
** Getting parts from your spirit animal sounds all fine and dandy if your animal is "pig" or "chimpanzee". However, there are some people who are implied to have smaller animals. Now, imagine a kid having problems with his heart and having to use a ''rabbit's'' heart. Even worse, what about a bison, horse, or elephant?
** Children know about their spirit animals when they do a vision quest. This means that any children who haven't taken it will not receive treatment.
** The idea of people receiving transplants from animals leads to more horror. What if someone decided to make something like [[spoiler: Camus Comprix]], but with the parts of various animals? Could soldiers be receiving eyes from tigers or ears from bats? Even worse, could people get brains from pigs in order to be able to do menial labor without question?
30th Jan '16 10:49:09 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[spoiler:Roland's mother getting the letter he wrote at Sonia's antique shop and imagining that he'll come home some day.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:Roland's mother getting the letter he wrote at Sonia's antique shop and imagining that he'll come home some day.]]]]
* TheUntwist: The later books threaten the repeal of Cap-17 and/or the passage of a "shelling" law that would allow for the involuntary unwinding of criminals, both of which would add the tension of Connor and Risa being eligible for unwinding again. Neither one comes to pass.
9th Dec '15 2:00:22 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* NightmareFuel: The unwinding process is described, IN DETAIL.
** Specifically, the chapter in which we learn exactly what the process is like is told in a third person limited from from the perspective of [[spoiler:Roland]]. And he's completely conscious while this happens, and is still alive until his entire brain is picked apart. [[AndIMustScream Possibly after that, in fact.]]
** The entire premise; especially the idea that your parents can sign your life away to the government, and nothing can take it back. Your parents sign your death warrant knowingly and willfully. And it's completely legal and accepted.
** Tyler begging his parents not to have him unwound.
9th Dec '15 1:39:46 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* {{Narm}}: [[spoiler:Connor being unwound in ''Undivded'' is an absolutely ''brutal'' scene...with the brief exception of "Funkytown" being played.]] Hopefully that particular nit of SoundtrackDissonance doesn't make it into the movie...
8th Dec '15 12:52:13 AM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CrowningMomentOfAwesome: Grace running back into a burning building to save the printer, all the while calculating how low her odds of survival are and not caring in the least.

to:

* CrowningMomentOfAwesome: CrowningMomentOfAwesome
**
Grace running back into a burning building to save the printer, all the while calculating how low her odds of survival are and not caring in the least.least. [[spoiler:And then getting it safely to a company that will use it for good. Hell yes.]]
** When all the random events come together and people begin to wonder, "[[WhatHaveIDone What have we done]]?"
7th Dec '15 10:52:45 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[spoiler:Connor having to kill Starkey. Connor finally giving in is painful enough, but then he tries to strangle Starkey and fails several times. Eventually he realizes that (because Roland wasn't a killer) he can't do it with Roland's arm...but he can do it with his own.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:Connor having to kill Starkey. Connor finally giving in is painful enough, but then he tries to strangle Starkey and fails several times. Eventually he realizes that (because Roland wasn't a killer) he can't do it with Roland's arm...but he can do it with his own.]]
** [[spoiler:Roland's mother getting the letter he wrote at Sonia's antique shop and imagining that he'll come home some day.
]]
7th Dec '15 9:50:40 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


-->They signed the unwind order just to spite each other, but laugh, laugh, laugh, Hayden, because if you ever stop laughing, it might just tear you apart worse than a Chop Shop.

to:

-->They signed the unwind order just to spite each other, but laugh, laugh, laugh, Hayden, because if you ever stop laughing, it might just tear you apart worse than a Chop Shop.Shop.
** [[spoiler:Connor having to kill Starkey. Connor finally giving in is painful enough, but then he tries to strangle Starkey and fails several times. Eventually he realizes that (because Roland wasn't a killer) he can't do it with Roland's arm...but he can do it with his own.]]
7th Dec '15 9:46:20 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Connor: "Nice socks." Also sort of doubles as a CatchPhrase when mockingly dealing with authority.

to:

* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Connor: "Nice socks." Also sort CrowningMomentOfAwesome: Grace running back into a burning building to save the printer, all the while calculating how low her odds of doubles as a CatchPhrase when mockingly dealing with authority.survival are and not caring in the least.
4th Dec '15 8:00:31 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Chapter 61. [[spoiler: Roland's unwinding]]. The infamous chapter that everyone talks about. People either cry buckets, or are left numb and sick.

to:

** Chapter 61. [[spoiler: Roland's unwinding]]. The infamous chapter that everyone talks about. People either cry buckets, or are left numb and sick.sick.
** Hayden's memories of his parents' divorce and decision to unwind him in ''[=UnWholly=]''.
-->"Fine!"
-->"Fine!"
-->"If thatís the way you want it!"
-->"If thatís the way YOU want it!"
-->"Donít put this on me!"
-->They signed the unwind order just to spite each other, but laugh, laugh, laugh, Hayden, because if you ever stop laughing, it might just tear you apart worse than a Chop Shop.
4th Dec '15 7:53:22 PM TheBedazzledDementor
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** CyFi pitifully holding the items he stole under the subconscious influence of [[spoiler: Tyler's right Temporal Lobe]].

to:

** CyFi [=CyFi=] pitifully holding the items he stole under the subconscious influence of [[spoiler: Tyler's right Temporal Lobe]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 49. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Unwind