History YMMV / TheNightGwenStacyDied

9th Sep '17 11:13:00 AM JulianLapostat
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* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: The writers made it absolutely clear that Gwen Stacy was dead for good. The same applied to Norman Osborn until he was resurrected over twenty years later. Dampening the effect is that Gwen had become a DesignatedLoveInterest at that point, and the Green Goblin had made more appearances as the amnesiac Norman Osborn than as a villain for the entire John Romita Sr. era.

to:

* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: The writers made it absolutely clear that Gwen Stacy was dead for good. The same applied to Norman Osborn until he was resurrected over twenty years later. Dampening the effect is that Gwen had become a DesignatedLoveInterest at that point, and the Green Goblin had made more appearances as the amnesiac Norman Osborn than as a villain for the entire John Romita Sr. era.era and was a rarely used villain at that point. What made it shocking was that the Spider-Man comics in general, and superhero comics on the whole, were usually not so violent at the time.
9th Sep '17 11:11:05 AM JulianLapostat
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** The storyline also becomes a problem when it gets adapted, because the main reason it happened was that the writer and Marvel's editorial team considered Gwen too bland and uninteresting, and so expendable. However, later writers decide to write Gwen (whose [[DependingOnTheWriter personality and characters have always been inconsistent right from the very beginning]]) into a more complex character than she originally was and treat Gwen's death as if it was like killing ComicBook/LoisLane[[note]]Remember Superman turning back time after Lois dies in ''Film/{{Superman}}'', that's how much audiences and creators expect their protagonists to cope when they lose someone they deeply and truly care about on a profound level and why most would prefer to avoid such situations if they can help it[[/note]]. As anyone who follows serial narrative know, essential supporting characters only face CharacterDeath when nearing a conclusion (such as a "last superhero story"[[note]](as in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns, ComicBook/WhateverHappenedToTheManOfTomorrow, Film/Logan'' or ''ComicBook/SpiderManReign'' which is the one of the few AU stories where Mary-Jane dies, featuring an old Peter Parker[[/note]]), but Gwen's death in the original stories was more or less a quick sudden event, and within a few issues Spider-Man was back to his old quippy self. As such when in ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'' they made Peter and Gwen's romance into an epic love story and transform Gwen's personality entirely[[note]]In that she knows Peter is Spider-Man, loves and accepts his double life, doesn't hold Captain George Stacy's death against him, and is warm, funny, and snarky like OG!Mary-Jane[[/note]], they more or less had [[spoiler:Peter quit being Spider-Man for a year, and then somehow hop back into action as the old quipster which many people saw as unbelievable for the story of a man who lost the love of his life, and become a complete and total failure as a hero, a fact which becomes apparent when one notes that the abandoned plans for the third film had Peter more or less becoming a MadScientist in trying to bring her back]]. Notably, Greg Weissmann, the creator of ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' (which also transformed Gwen and likewise made her into a likable supporting character) stated that he had no plans for killing off his version of Gwen, because she had become a much more complex and far less disposable character.

to:

** The storyline also becomes a problem when it gets adapted, because the main reason it happened was that the writer and Marvel's editorial team considered Gwen too bland and uninteresting, and so expendable. However, expendable, yet on account of being the DesignatedLoveInterest, she was treated after her death as Peter's TheLostLenore which made later writers decide try to write rework and adapt Gwen (whose [[DependingOnTheWriter personality and characters have always been inconsistent right from the very beginning]]) into a more complex character than she originally was and treat actually was, with many of their revisions amounting to InNameOnly takes, treating Gwen's death as if it was like killing ComicBook/LoisLane[[note]]Remember Superman turning back time after Lois dies in ''Film/{{Superman}}'', that's how much audiences and creators expect their protagonists to cope when they lose someone they deeply and truly care about on a profound level and why most would prefer to avoid such situations if they can help it[[/note]]. As anyone who follows serial narrative know, essential supporting characters only face CharacterDeath when nearing a conclusion (such as a "last superhero story"[[note]](as in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns, ComicBook/WhateverHappenedToTheManOfTomorrow, Film/Logan'' Film/{{Logan}}'' or ''ComicBook/SpiderManReign'' which is the one of the few AU stories where Mary-Jane dies, featuring an old Peter Parker[[/note]]), but Gwen's death in the original stories was more or less a quick sudden event, and within a few issues Spider-Man was back to his old quippy self. As such when in ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'' they made Peter and Gwen's romance into an epic love story and transform Gwen's personality entirely[[note]]In that she knows Peter is Spider-Man, loves and accepts his double life, doesn't hold Captain George Stacy's death against him, and is warm, funny, and snarky like OG!Mary-Jane[[/note]], they more or less had [[spoiler:Peter quit being Spider-Man for a year, and then somehow hop back into action as the old quipster which many people saw as unbelievable for the story of a man who lost the love of his life, and become a complete and total failure as a hero, a fact which becomes apparent when one notes that the abandoned plans for the third film had Peter more or less becoming a MadScientist in trying to bring her back]]. Notably, Greg Weissmann, the creator of ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' (which also transformed Gwen and likewise made her into a likable supporting character) stated that he had no plans for killing off his version of Gwen, because she had become a much more complex and far less disposable character. Likewise, ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' did a take on Gwen Stacy that initially saw them killing off Gwen but later bringing her back as a clone-but-not-really-and-as-good as the real Gwen and treated her as Gwen returned.



* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: The writers made it absolutely clear that Gwen Stacy was dead for good. The same applied to Norman Osborn until he was resurrected over twenty years later.

to:

* LikeYouWouldReallyDoIt: The writers made it absolutely clear that Gwen Stacy was dead for good. The same applied to Norman Osborn until he was resurrected over twenty years later. Dampening the effect is that Gwen had become a DesignatedLoveInterest at that point, and the Green Goblin had made more appearances as the amnesiac Norman Osborn than as a villain for the entire John Romita Sr. era.
9th Sep '17 11:04:16 AM JulianLapostat
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: At the time the story was released, TheHero failing to save the LoveInterest and said love interest getting killed for shock value was considered an unprecedented and bold move, and Peter dealing with the grief and moving on with his life is considered a hallmark for his CharacterDevelopment to this day. Seeing how killing love interests for the sake of giving a protagonist a hard time has become so cliché that an [[StuffedInTheFridge entire trope]] is dedicated to it, this story can come across as somewhat bland and even insulting for modern readers, as mentoined under PopularityPolynomail and HypeBacklash.

to:

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: SeinfeldIsUnfunny:
**
At the time the story was released, TheHero failing to save the LoveInterest and said love interest getting killed for shock value was considered an unprecedented and bold move, especially since the ''Amazing Spider-Man'' comics at the time were known mainly for its low-stakes stories where there wasn't so much violence and death. It promised introducing real stakes and consequences and giving a sense that AnyoneCanDie, and this was a good decade before Creator/FrankMiller's ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'', ''ComicBook/TheKillingJoke'' and ''ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily''.
**
Peter dealing with the grief and moving on with his life is considered a hallmark for his CharacterDevelopment to this day. Seeing how day, as well as ComicBook/MaryJaneWatson and the other supporting cast, who were changed by this single event. Since then, killing love interests for the sake of giving a protagonist a hard time has become so cliché that an [[StuffedInTheFridge entire trope]] is dedicated to it, and this story can come across as somewhat bland and even insulting for modern readers, as mentoined mentioned under PopularityPolynomail PopularityPolynomial and HypeBacklash.
2nd Sep '17 2:15:45 PM Tropetastic1995
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: At the time the story was released, TheHero failing to save the LoveInterest and said love interest getting killed for shock value was considered an unprecedented and bold move, and Peter dealing with the grief and moving on with his life is considered a hallmark for his CharacterDevelopment to this day. Seeing how killing love interests for the sake of giving a protagonist a hard time has become so cliché that an [[StuffedInTheFridge entire trope]] is dedicated to it, this story can come across as somewhat bland and even insulting for modern readers.

to:

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: At the time the story was released, TheHero failing to save the LoveInterest and said love interest getting killed for shock value was considered an unprecedented and bold move, and Peter dealing with the grief and moving on with his life is considered a hallmark for his CharacterDevelopment to this day. Seeing how killing love interests for the sake of giving a protagonist a hard time has become so cliché that an [[StuffedInTheFridge entire trope]] is dedicated to it, this story can come across as somewhat bland and even insulting for modern readers.readers, as mentoined under PopularityPolynomail and HypeBacklash.
2nd Sep '17 2:11:52 PM Tropetastic1995
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** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked mostly because the situation for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the story, since it proves the character can exist without being either LoveInterest or StuffedIntoTheFridge, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous retcons in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan simply to either milk mileage from the story or pile on misery and guilt on Peter, just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.
* TearJerker: Gwen's death and everyone's reaction to it.
-->'''Spider-Man''': "I saved you, honey... don't you see? *quietly* I saved you..."

to:

** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it the story has been regarded less kindly for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, StuffedIntoTheFridge (although SeinfeldIsUnfunny is in play here), and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked disliked, be it mostly because the situation at least somewhat understandable reasons for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the story, since it proves the character can exist without being either LoveInterest or StuffedIntoTheFridge, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous retcons in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan simply to either milk mileage from the story or pile on misery and guilt on Peter, just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.
already.
* TearJerker: Gwen's death SeinfeldIsUnfunny: At the time the story was released, TheHero failing to save the LoveInterest and everyone's reaction said love interest getting killed for shock value was considered an unprecedented and bold move, and Peter dealing with the grief and moving on with his life is considered a hallmark for his CharacterDevelopment to it.
-->'''Spider-Man''': "I saved you, honey... don't you see? *quietly* I saved you..."
this day. Seeing how killing love interests for the sake of giving a protagonist a hard time has become so cliché that an [[StuffedInTheFridge entire trope]] is dedicated to it, this story can come across as somewhat bland and even insulting for modern readers.


Added DiffLines:

* TearJerker: Gwen's death and everyone's reaction to it.
-->'''Spider-Man''': "I saved you, honey... don't you see? *quietly* I saved you..."
19th Aug '17 1:06:41 PM Aquila89
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** The story's reception at the time it was made. The fans flooded Marvel with letters, some praising the creators for taking such a bold move, others calling them murderers. It was regarded later as a bold step for a company to kill-off a prominent supporting character and make the hero genuinely fail. Alex Ross saw it as the end of the Bronze Age of Comics and made it the climax of ''ComicBook/{{Marvels}}''.

to:

** The story's reception at the time it was made.made was divided. The fans flooded Marvel with letters, some praising the creators for taking such a bold move, others calling them murderers. It was regarded later as a bold step for a company to kill-off a prominent supporting character and make the hero genuinely fail. Alex Ross saw it as the end of the Bronze Age of Comics and made it the climax of ''ComicBook/{{Marvels}}''.
18th Aug '17 11:03:15 PM JulianLapostat
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Added DiffLines:

** The storyline also becomes a problem when it gets adapted, because the main reason it happened was that the writer and Marvel's editorial team considered Gwen too bland and uninteresting, and so expendable. However, later writers decide to write Gwen (whose [[DependingOnTheWriter personality and characters have always been inconsistent right from the very beginning]]) into a more complex character than she originally was and treat Gwen's death as if it was like killing ComicBook/LoisLane[[note]]Remember Superman turning back time after Lois dies in ''Film/{{Superman}}'', that's how much audiences and creators expect their protagonists to cope when they lose someone they deeply and truly care about on a profound level and why most would prefer to avoid such situations if they can help it[[/note]]. As anyone who follows serial narrative know, essential supporting characters only face CharacterDeath when nearing a conclusion (such as a "last superhero story"[[note]](as in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns, ComicBook/WhateverHappenedToTheManOfTomorrow, Film/Logan'' or ''ComicBook/SpiderManReign'' which is the one of the few AU stories where Mary-Jane dies, featuring an old Peter Parker[[/note]]), but Gwen's death in the original stories was more or less a quick sudden event, and within a few issues Spider-Man was back to his old quippy self. As such when in ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderManSeries'' they made Peter and Gwen's romance into an epic love story and transform Gwen's personality entirely[[note]]In that she knows Peter is Spider-Man, loves and accepts his double life, doesn't hold Captain George Stacy's death against him, and is warm, funny, and snarky like OG!Mary-Jane[[/note]], they more or less had [[spoiler:Peter quit being Spider-Man for a year, and then somehow hop back into action as the old quipster which many people saw as unbelievable for the story of a man who lost the love of his life, and become a complete and total failure as a hero, a fact which becomes apparent when one notes that the abandoned plans for the third film had Peter more or less becoming a MadScientist in trying to bring her back]]. Notably, Greg Weissmann, the creator of ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' (which also transformed Gwen and likewise made her into a likable supporting character) stated that he had no plans for killing off his version of Gwen, because she had become a much more complex and far less disposable character.
13th Aug '17 6:02:56 PM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked mostly because the situation for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the character, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous retcons in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan to add to her PosthumousCharacter just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.

to:

** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked mostly because the situation for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the character, story, since it proves the character can exist without being either LoveInterest or StuffedIntoTheFridge, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous retcons in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan simply to add to her PosthumousCharacter either milk mileage from the story or pile on misery and guilt on Peter, just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.already.
13th Aug '17 11:17:30 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The story's reception at the time it was made. The fans flooded Marvel with letters, some praising the creators for taking such a bold move, others calling them murderers. It was regarded later as a bold step for a company to kill-off a prominent supporting character and make the hero genuinely fail.

to:

** The story's reception at the time it was made. The fans flooded Marvel with letters, some praising the creators for taking such a bold move, others calling them murderers. It was regarded later as a bold step for a company to kill-off a prominent supporting character and make the hero genuinely fail. Alex Ross saw it as the end of the Bronze Age of Comics and made it the climax of ''ComicBook/{{Marvels}}''.
13th Aug '17 11:16:32 AM JulianLapostat
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked mostly because the situation for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the character, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous {{Retcons}} in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan to add to her PosthumousCharacter just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.

to:

** Since TheOughties-onwards however, many slam it for codifying StuffedIntoTheFridge, and in the wake of the popular revisions of Bucky Barnes and likewise, Jason Todd, the idea of AllDeathsFinal within comic books is no longer considered a special achievement, and likewise when the story was finally adapted for the first time in any media (''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan2''), it was heavily disliked mostly because the situation for killing Gwen in the comics (i.e. she was bland, somewhat one-dimensional, and made Peter feel guilty about being Spider-Man) simply didn't exist[[note]]Because the Gwen of the movies knew Peter was Spider-Man, accepted his double-life and was popular with the public (being the most beloved character of the Marc Webb movies[[/note]]. The popularity of ComicBook/SpiderGwen has also diminished the appeal of the character, and likewise the shoehorning of ridiculous {{Retcons}} retcons in ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan and ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderMan to add to her PosthumousCharacter just makes readers wish that Marvel simply bring her BackFromTheDead already.
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