History YMMV / TheMagicFlute

22nd Apr '18 10:18:58 PM IshiMatsu615
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Sarastro and his priests have some pretty misogynistic lines at times, which are generally {{Bowdlerized}} during the translation from German. Not to mention that it's the female ruler, and her black [[TheDragon Dragon]], who get cast as the baddies...

to:

** Sarastro and his priests have some pretty misogynistic sexist lines at times, which are generally {{Bowdlerized}} during the translation from German. Not to mention that it's the female ruler, and her black [[TheDragon Dragon]], who get cast as the baddies...



* [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?]]: The Queen of the Night is said to have been based on the conservative Empress UsefulNotes/MariaTheresa, who opposed the "Enlightenment" (get it?) and favored the '''black'''-habited Jesuits (get it? '''black''', like Monostatos?) -- fervent opponents of the Freemasons (hence also some of the misogyny of the opera). Following from this, it is quite likely that Tamino represents Joseph II, while Pamina possibly represents Austria or perhaps Europe in general.

to:

* [[WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?]]: The Queen of the Night is said to have been based on the conservative Empress UsefulNotes/MariaTheresa, who opposed the "Enlightenment" (get it?) and favored the '''black'''-habited Jesuits (get it? '''black''', like Monostatos?) -- fervent opponents of the Freemasons (hence also some of the misogyny sexism of the opera). Following from this, it is quite likely that Tamino represents Joseph II, while Pamina possibly represents Austria or perhaps Europe in general.
10th Apr '18 6:17:57 PM Pamina
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DemocracyIsBad and HobbesWasRight: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch Papagena unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.

to:

* DemocracyIsBad and HobbesWasRight: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch Papagena unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice force Tamino and Pamina if they fail the to undergo trials that might kill them (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.
10th Apr '18 6:10:38 PM Pamina
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DracoInLeatherPants: Some commentators go too far when calling out the ValuesDissonance surrounding Monostatos and insist on viewing him as an innocent victim who does nothing wrong. They accuse Sarastro of punishing him just for doing his job of trying to stop Pamina from running away; somehow they forget that ''sexually harassing her'' wasn't a necessary part of that job.



* DracoInLeatherPants: Some commentators go too far when calling out the ValuesDissonance surrounding Monostatos and insist on viewing him as an innocent victim who does nothing wrong. They accuse Sarastro of punishing him just for doing his job of trying to stop Pamina from running away; somehow they forget that ''sexually harassing her'' wasn't a necessary part of that job.
10th Apr '18 6:09:53 PM Pamina
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* DracoInLeatherPants: Some commentators go too far when calling out the ValuesDissonance surrounding Monostatos and insist on viewing him as an innocent victim who does nothing wrong. They accuse Sarastro of punishing him just for doing his job of trying to stop Pamina from running away; somehow they forget that ''sexually harassing her'' wasn't a necessary part of that job.
8th Jan '17 8:31:22 PM abby-anne
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Is Sarastro [[BigGood a wise and righteous ruler]] trying to bring wisdom to the world? Is he a [[SmugSnake tyrant]] who [[PathOfInspiration surrounds himself]] with [[YesMan yes men]] and slaves so his authority can never be challenged? Or a [[ManipulativeBastard cult leader]] who gave Tamino and Pamina a bad case of StockholmSyndrome and manipulated them into [[DrinkingTheKoolAid becoming the newest members?]]
19th Nov '16 9:41:26 PM NOYB
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DemocracyIsBad and HobbesWasRight: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.

to:

* DemocracyIsBad and HobbesWasRight: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her Papagena unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.



----

to:

----
21st May '15 6:33:33 AM darkabomination
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** What I heard was: Tamino is the human soul searching for Enlightenment; Pamina is the Spirit of Enlightenment; the Queen is the Roman Catholic Church, which was the guardian of the Spirit of Enlightenment until she became more interested in power and wealth than wisdom, when the Spirit went to live with Sarastro, who is Freemasonry.

to:

** What I heard was: Alternatively, Tamino is the human soul searching for Enlightenment; Pamina is the Spirit of Enlightenment; the Queen is the Roman Catholic Church, which was the guardian of the Spirit of Enlightenment until she became more interested in power and wealth than wisdom, when the Spirit went to live with Sarastro, who is Freemasonry.
30th Nov '14 12:37:47 PM Alberich
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DemocracyIsBad: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.

to:

* DemocracyIsBad: DemocracyIsBad and HobbesWasRight: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State, and this is shown as right and proper.
30th Nov '14 9:28:56 AM Alberich
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DemocracyIsBad: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State.

to:

* DemocracyIsBad: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State.State, and this is shown as right and proper.
30th Nov '14 9:16:47 AM Alberich
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* DemocracyIsBad: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), and possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State.

to:

* DemocracyIsBad: Sarastro isn't just Enlightened; his Enlightenment entitles him and his Order to rule, to kidnap Pamina from her mother, to keep Monostatos as a slave, to decide whether Papageno can get married (the priests tell him he'll never catch her unless he undergoes their trials), and possibly to sacrifice Tamino and Pamina if they fail the trials (he says if they fail, they will be "given" to Isis and Osiris, and "taste the pleasures of the Gods earlier than we do"), and to wield whatever power casts the Queen into Eternal Night. Lesser beings, whether they are good ones like Papageno or bad ones like Monostatos, have no voice in the State.
This list shows the last 10 events of 43. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheMagicFlute