History YMMV / TheGodfather

15th Aug '16 1:39:53 PM BatmanKalEl
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: There's a [[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205771 fairly]] [[https://www.quora.com/The-Godfather-Part-II-1974-movie/Why-did-Michael-send-Rocco-not-just-a-button-man-to-kill-Roth popular]] [[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071562/board/nest/243011708 fan theory]] that Rocco was involved in Roth's plot against Michael in ''Part II''. While there's little textual evidence for it, it would explain Rocco's failure to foil the assassination attempt or to bring the shooters in alive, and why Michael sends him on a suicide mission to kill Roth later in the film.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternateCharacterInterpretation:
**
There's a [[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=205771 fairly]] [[https://www.quora.com/The-Godfather-Part-II-1974-movie/Why-did-Michael-send-Rocco-not-just-a-button-man-to-kill-Roth popular]] [[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071562/board/nest/243011708 fan theory]] that Rocco was involved in Roth's plot against Michael in ''Part II''. While there's little textual evidence for it, it would explain Rocco's failure to foil the assassination attempt or to bring the shooters in alive, and why Michael sends him on a suicide mission to kill Roth later in the film.
26th Jul '16 5:46:23 AM longWriter
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** Captain Mark McCluskey is as dirty as they come and on Sollozo's payroll, so it comes as no surprise that he easily crosses and becomes an accomplice to Don Vito's attempted murder and that he uses unwarranted violence against an (at this point) undeserving Michael. It does drive home though, that many supposedly respected authority figures are every bit as vile as the criminals they claim to hunt.

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** Captain Mark McCluskey [=McCluskey=] is as dirty as they come and on Sollozo's payroll, so it comes as no surprise that he easily crosses and becomes an accomplice to Don Vito's attempted murder and that he uses unwarranted violence against an (at this point) undeserving Michael. It does drive home though, that many supposedly respected authority figures are every bit as vile as the criminals they claim to hunt.
26th Jul '16 5:45:54 AM longWriter
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Added DiffLines:

* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: Your allies' pitching in with firepower can get annoying if you're trying for certain execution styles. Some other times all you want is to run away without escalating a situation, but they just have to open fire...
17th Jul '16 3:38:48 AM Shadowgazer
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Added DiffLines:

** Captain Mark McCluskey is as dirty as they come and on Sollozo's payroll, so it comes as no surprise that he easily crosses and becomes an accomplice to Don Vito's attempted murder and that he uses unwarranted violence against an (at this point) undeserving Michael. It does drive home though, that many supposedly respected authority figures are every bit as vile as the criminals they claim to hunt.
17th Jul '16 3:25:23 AM Shadowgazer
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** Carlo viciously beating Connie [[spoiler:in order to draw Sonny out and have him killed.]] Followed by Mike [[spoiler:openly lying about sparing Carlo for info on his enemies only to have him brutally strangled mere minutes later. Did Carlo deserve it? Yes. But the lie, combined with becoming Carlo's son's godfather ''that day'' and neglecting how it would wreck Connie's life, shows how ruthless Michael has become. It's topped off by lying straight to his own wife's face about it.]]

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\n** Carlo viciously beating Connie [[spoiler:in order to draw Sonny out and have him killed.]] Followed by ]] Which was an only slightly more ambitious reason than the usual of beating her for nothin'. This led to Mike [[spoiler:openly lying about sparing Carlo for info on his enemies only to have him brutally strangled mere minutes later. Did Carlo deserve it? Yes. But the lie, combined with becoming Carlo's son's godfather ''that day'' and neglecting how it would wreck Connie's life, shows how ruthless Michael has become.become, even if this was one of the justified examples. It's topped off by lying straight to his own wife's face about it.]]
17th Jul '16 3:12:33 AM Shadowgazer
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** It's kinda hard to place one in a movie where TheMafia is involved, but [[spoiler:what happens to that poor horse in ''Part I'' is unforgettably horrific...]] and it's done by the respective ''good guys''. [[spoiler:It's almost forgivable [[KickTheSonOfABitch because the horse's owner, Woltz, is revealed as a pedophile using his position as film producer to seduce young women and sexually molesting a twelve-year-old girl during Tom Hagen's visit.]]]]

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** It's kinda hard to place one in a movie where TheMafia is involved, but [[spoiler:what happens to that poor horse in ''Part I'' is unforgettably horrific...]] and it's done by the respective ''good guys''. [[spoiler:It's almost forgivable [[KickTheSonOfABitch because the horse's owner, Woltz, is revealed as a pedophile using his position as film producer to seduce young women and sexually molesting a twelve-year-old girl during Tom Hagen's visit.]]]]]]]] Of course [[spoiler: it still wasn't the poor horse's fault]]. It's telling that it happens after two cases where the people the Don helped, were horribly wronged and mistreated by the authorities, as if the film wanted to subvert the audiences impression of the Don as avenging angel.
** And more specifically, the first case was an offscreen example, with two men attempting to rape Bonasera's daughter and brutalising her for resisting, to the point that her jaw was broken and her face was irreparably damaged. After this, nobody blames either Bonasera or Don Vito for repaying the favour.



13th Jul '16 8:24:39 PM Josef5678
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** This might seem churlish in light of the fact the first two movies each won Best Picture and numerous other Oscars besides (though Coppola lost Best Director for the first one to [[{{Cabaret}} Bob Fosse]], he won for the second one), but amazingly enough, Gordon Willis' seminal camerawork in the first two movies wasn't even ''nominated.'' Think about that.

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** This might seem churlish in light of the fact the first two movies each won Best Picture and numerous other Oscars besides (though Coppola lost Best Director for the first one to [[{{Cabaret}} [[Theatre/{{Cabaret}} Bob Fosse]], he won for the second one), but amazingly enough, Gordon Willis' seminal camerawork in the first two movies wasn't even ''nominated.'' Think about that.



** A more jarring example: ''three'' actors from the first movie were nominated for Best Supporting Actor. They all lost.(Though to a well deserved winner, Joel Grey for 'Film/Cabaret'.)

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** A more jarring example: ''three'' actors from the first movie were nominated for Best Supporting Actor. They all lost.(Though to a well deserved winner, Joel Grey for 'Film/Cabaret'.''Theatre/{{Cabaret}}''.)
2nd Jul '16 3:37:11 AM annette12
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* BadassDecay:
** When Sollozzo [[spoiler:has Tom held captive]], he says that [[spoiler:Vito and Luca]] would never have fallen for the ploys used if it were years earlier, trying to suggest that they've gotten soft.
** [[InUniverse In the book only]], we are [[InformedAbility Informed]] that Fredo was a tough guy who just took his eye off the ball during the attempted assassination of Vito and decayed after running the Family business in Vegas for a long time. None of this shows up in the movies, where he comes across as an incompetent boob. Given that Fredo's toughness was certainly an informed ability, [[PragmaticAdaptation perhaps that was for the best]].

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* BadassDecay:
**
BadassDecay: When Sollozzo [[spoiler:has Tom held captive]], he says that [[spoiler:Vito and Luca]] would never have fallen for the ploys used if it were years earlier, trying to suggest that they've gotten soft.
** [[InUniverse In the book only]], we are [[InformedAbility Informed]] that Fredo was a tough guy who just took his eye off the ball during the attempted assassination of Vito and decayed after running the Family business in Vegas for a long time. None of this shows up in the movies, where he comes across as an incompetent boob. Given that Fredo's toughness was certainly an informed ability, [[PragmaticAdaptation perhaps that was for the best]].
soft.
20th Jun '16 6:51:50 PM BatmanKalEl
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** It also did this for Italian-American and ethnic Americans in general. Before Film/TheGodfather, Italian-Americans were usually considered FunnyForeigners in Hollywood movies and the general look of Hollywood was fairly [=WASPy=]. While films feature Italian-Americans and other hyphenated immigrant Americans did exist before, it was usually seen as a niche film. Film/TheGodfather brought the immigrant experience to the mainstream, and its critical, sympathetic and down-to-earth portrayal of Italian Americans, while ironically catering to TheMafia stereotype, broke all the cliches with American audiences identifying with Michael Corleone to the same extent they once identified with [[Film/GoneWithTheWind Scarlett O'Hara]].

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** It also did this for Italian-American and ethnic Americans in general. Before Film/TheGodfather, Italian-Americans were usually considered FunnyForeigners {{Funny Foreigner}}s in Hollywood movies and the general look of Hollywood was fairly [=WASPy=]. While films feature Italian-Americans and other hyphenated immigrant Americans did exist before, it was usually seen as a niche film. Film/TheGodfather brought the immigrant experience to the mainstream, and its critical, sympathetic and down-to-earth portrayal of Italian Americans, while ironically catering to TheMafia stereotype, broke all the cliches with American audiences identifying with Michael Corleone to the same extent they once identified with [[Film/GoneWithTheWind Scarlett O'Hara]].
2nd Jun '16 7:47:56 AM 06tele
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Much of what critics attacked with ''Part III'' was already present in ''Part II''. Long-lost Corleone family friends emerging from nowhere (Don Altobello)? Hello, Hyman Roth and Frank Pentangeli! Historical background woven into the main plot (the Vatican Bank scandal)? Remember Michael testifying before the Kefauver Committee and visiting pre-revolutionary Havana? And Coppola's casting family members goes back to the original: Talia Shire, his sister, played Connie in all three films.

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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Much of what critics attacked with ''Part III'' was already present in ''Part II''. Long-lost Corleone family friends emerging from nowhere (Don Altobello)? Hello, Hyman Roth and Frank Pentangeli! Historical background woven into the main plot (the Vatican Bank scandal)? Remember Michael testifying before the Kefauver Committee and visiting pre-revolutionary Havana? And Coppola's casting family members goes back to the original: Talia Shire, his sister, played Connie in all three films.[[note]]In fairness, nobody criticised Coppola for casting his own sister, because Talia Shire is a very good actress. Coppola was criticised for casting his daughter because Sofia Coppola just wasn't very good at acting (although she turned out to be very good at other things).[[/note]]
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