Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheFlash2014

Go To

OR

Added: 91

Removed: 14722

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter/TheFlash2014 They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character]]



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Sometimes the villains are killed off or forgotten, to the dismay of fans/viewers who wanted more of them. Season One started with that, then Team Flash started locking them up, which came back at them with a vengeance. Then Season Two started with that again.
** A large contingent has been calling this about the show's use of Wally. Season 2 doesn't give him any powers and Season 3 seeks to develop him more until The Speed Force discourages Barry from assigning Wally to help against Savitar, which made his development stagnant. In Season 4 Wally is not allowed to take Barry's tenure as the Flash; he only tries to impersonate him for a brief time and after Barry's releasing Wally gets demoted again as a sidekick. In the following episodes, Wally is barely used and leaves the team after his amicable break-up with Jesse. He returns sometime later, but he gets sidelined again on Series/CrisisOnEarthX and leaves. Finally, his transference to ''Legends of Tomorrow'' [[http://ew.com/tv/2018/01/19/legends-of-tomorrow-adds-keiynan-lonsdale-as-series-regular/ was confirmed]], which only created a wide divide in fan opinion and premature accusations of wasting characters for ''that'' show.
** The focus on S.T.A.R. Labs and Team Flash and the forced balance between having Barry as the protagonist and having a team has caused everyone's development to mostly be lacklustre: Cisco and Caitlin are almost always nerfed or taken out of the equation before the fight starts and their personal lives have been largely ignored, while Wally had to be [[{{Transplant}} transferred to the Legends]] so he could have his development. This even extends to characters like Barry and Iris, whose individual jobs and lives have been sorely neglected in favor of having ''their'' lives revolve around Team Flash as well. The only characters who seem to be involved in the plot with jobs and personal lives are Joe and Cecile - and their stories largely take place offscreen. Regardless of the cause, many fans agree that the show's current formula is wasting the potential of their characters.
** Ironically, when later seasons gained much more focus on the personal lives of the characters, quite a few fans complained because they felt that there was ''too much'' focus on their jobs and not enough on the superheroics.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Many weren't expecting Plastique to be written out so quickly because of the character's history with the ComicBook/SuicideSquad a.k.a. Task Force X, which already exists in ''Series/{{Arrow}}''. It becomes even worse since the character was built up as a very interesting metahuman and potential ally of Barry before dying.
** Roy Bivolo's so under-utilized that his nickname, "Prism", ends up making no sense--he never demonstrates any color-based powers besides flashing red eyes. He's [[CharactersAsDevice just there as an excuse]] to put Barry and Oliver into a LetsYouAndHimFight situation.
** Linda Park is reduced to a RomanticFalseLead and is then sent to a LongBusTrip in season 2, despite being a very popular supporting character in the comics, one of Iris's closest friend at her station, and a potential love interest for the soon-to-be introduced Wally.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Atom Smasher, who undergoes AdaptationalVillainy and appears to [[WeHardlyKnewYe die]] in his debut episode. Counts for double since he's from another Earth and he's implied to have murdered his counterpart on this Earth, who apparently never got powers.
** Patty Spivot, due to Joe and Barry arbitrarily keeping her LockedOutOfTheLoop she never contributes much to plot, even though she's a very keen-eyed detective. It's very telling when she's PutOnABus, Joe doesn't get a new partner.
** Tar Pit has a power set that fits especially well to be a foil to the Flash, and the episode even includes a scene based around Barry being slowed down enough to keep him from saving Iris from being hurt. But by the time he shows up, the needs of the ongoing arc mean that he and Barry hardly even fight at all, and he is defeated easily.
** Cisco's EvilTwin Reverb has tons of potential because him being essentially what Cisco could be if he learns to perfectly master and develop his abilities would make him a perfect rival for Cisco in future seasons. He's killed off in his debut episode. The same goes for Rupture, Reverb's brother and another potential rival who was killed off in his debut episode.
** Deathstorm, Ronnie's EvilTwin, doesn't get fleshed out very much, is OutOfFocus compared to Killer Frost, and, like Reverb, is offed by Zoom in his debut episode.
** Trajectory had a ton of potential with being the shows first ever female speedster, as well as having conflict with a voice in her head encouraging her to continue using Velocity 9. It's implied that the only reason she has resorted to crime is a result of low wages and her lowering mental state from continued use of the substance. When given the offer by Barry to stop what she is doing and try to fix her wrongs which could lead an interesting plot of the two sides of Trajectory at ends while battling the illness effects of Velocity, she instead takes more Velocity 9 and runs until she evaporates into thin air.
** Killer Frost, who showed signs that she was possibly redeeming herself, ends up locked in a cage by Zoom and executed after the very first time she interacts with her Earth-1 counterpart. It doesn't help that her possible chance at redemption was dropped entirely from her character as well.
** Killing the Turtle. A ManOfKryptonite for speedsters seems like it would come in handy on a show with so many of them.
** Not once was Eddie's Earth-2 doppelgänger seen or even mentioned, especially jarring as much of the fandom is hoping to see the return of Creator/RickCosnett portraying a version of the super villain Cobalt Blue.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Many were unhappy how Shade was reduced to a sub-average VillainOfTheWeek [[GenericDoomsdayVillain with no motivation or even characterization]] other than being as a distraction by Dr. Alchemy.
** Grodd has a two-parter story arc about him leading an army of gorillas to attack Central City, but the villain gets absolutely zero character development and is defeated anti-climatically. Solovar counts too, since he was only featured three times in the arc, with the episode only implying that he'll perform a HeelFaceTurn before he departs.
** Many fans have expressed disappointment that Alchemy ends up only being TheDragon to the true BigBad Savitar and not even that, given Savitar is literally just possessing him. Thanks to ArcFatigue over speedster villains, many were hoping for a full season about a non-speedster BigBad.
** The show's version of Music Meister is essentially a [[InNameOnly completely different character]]. The original Music Meister was a flamboyant supervillain with [[TheMusicMeister the ability to make people burst into song]], but the show instead opts to make him into a TricksterMentor with a set of vague omnipotent powers which, bafflingly, have nothing to do with music. He doesn't even get a solo! It doesn't help that, by establishing that this ''was'' the Music Meister (given how he doesn't act ''anything'' like the actual Music Meister), and not another Trickster type character that could have fit the role in the episode much better.
** Many fans feel that the BigBad Savitar had a lot of wasted potential, largely due to the writers dragging out the reveal of his identity until so close to the end of the season that there wasn't really enough time left to actually develop his character. The backstory of how Barry's time remnant became Savitar is never actually shown (the only explanation we get is that he decided to become a god to escape his pain) and we also never learn how he got his suit or scars. He was also defeated in a rather anticlimactic way. Others also thought that it would have been much better if Savitar was the time remnant that sacrificed itself against Zoom instead of one that fought (off-screen) against...himself.
** Tracy Brand had potential to reach EnsembleDarkhorse status that was squandered when her main plot contribution, the Speed Force Bazooka, apparently the only thing able to stop Savitar according to Future Barry, was rendered moot by the philosopher Stone, and thus being degraded to a SatelliteLoveInterest spending the entirety of the season finale mourning and weeping over the loss of her ''beloved'' H.R., [[StrangledByTheRedString a man she had only met a few episodes prior]].
** The Cult Alchemy had been building in the name of Savitar during the first half of the season had a chance at fully realizing a small army for the BigBad to command in the same vein as the Meta-Apocalypse Zoom had attempted prior, while much more manageable due to a smaller mass. Unfortunately they appear in one episode after being mentioned, and [[TheDragon Killer Frost]] was the only minion seen working with Savitar after his escape from the Speed Force.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Cisco and Caitlin are metahumans whose powers could be used more often, but their powers are overlooked this season and only Barry and Ralph are really given a chance to shine as the heroes. They are kept as VoiceWithAnInternetConnection, despite Iris and Harry already having this role. It even makes you wonder: If you have four powerful superheroes on your team, why send just two of them to face the powerful villain of the week? Though their case isn't as bad as Wally's, many feel they've been unfortunately pushed aside to provide comic relief almost exclusively.
** Pretty much all of the Bus Metas, barring Ralph. Several of them were really interesting and creative, but all of them were underused and promptly killed off by [=DeVoe=] when he either [[PowerParasite drains their powers]] or [[GrandTheftMe steals their bodies]]. A common complaint is that [=DeVoe=]'s actions are destroying any potential additions to "The Rogues", an element that has been fairly underdeveloped as a whole. Two attempts of "Rogues" in the previous seasons [[AbortedArc were dropped]]. Special mention goes to Matthew Kim, the ''first Asian member'' of Team Flash...who ends up being nothing more than a willing prisoner, never interacting with anybody after his debut episode and who gets killed by [=DeVoe=] in his second appearance, and offscreen at that. Also Becky Sharpe (see why under TheWoobie) and Izzy Bowin, who [[CutLexLuthorACheck wanted to use her new sonic powers for a music career rather than any costumed villainy]], and briefly bested [=DeVoe=] before going down in her debut episode.
** Dave a.k.a. Big Sir was almost a throwaway character.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Weather Wizard hasn't been seen since Season Two, so naturally many fans were overjoyed when he returned...and then disappointed when it turned out it was just for what was essentially a cameo and he wouldn't be an antagonist at all. There was a DeletedScene of him and Ragdoll discussing plans, but this arrived nowhere.
** Many fans felt Icicle and Weather Witch would've made worthy secondary antagonists in addition to the Cicadas, and many felt they were vastly underused in compared to Cicada who took the bulk of this season's screen time.
** Also Godspeed. He's a character that fans had been anticipating for quite some time, and in addition to that has one of the most well-received costumes of any speedster on the show. Unfortunately he's written as a FlatCharacter with very little backstory or characterization. It also doesn't help that he was [[StarterVillain defeated rather easily]], and by an untrained Nora at that.
** Cicada himself. Him being a metahuman who hunts other metahumans and having a sympathetic origin was the only thing that made him stand out. He could have been given more to work with, more to his goals and desires than just stab every meta he encountered, or at the very least have Chris Klein tone down the voice he uses when wearing the mask, and became a genuinely sympathetic and nuanced villain. Instead, he quickly became very disliked and would be replaced before the season even ended.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Season 7 begins with the original Harrison Wells resurrecting, which finally gives the series a chance to show him interacting with Team Flash. Unfortunately, he stays for just one episode and then leaves. Following the announcement that Tom Cavanagh left the regular cast, many fans regretted the fact that they will never see the original Wells as a full-time member of the team or a development of the concept that he is an amalgamation of all the previous versions of the character.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Ryan Choi, after having not been seen since ''Crisis'', finally gets to become the Atom, in a very comics-accurate suit... for only a minute, in a BadFuture which winds up being undone by Barry anyway, against the backdrop of the UnresolvedSexualTension between Chester and Allegra.
** Chillblaine seems to be the writers' attempt to replicate Captain Cold as an ice-themed sort-of villain who eventually allies with Team Flash. However, because he never shows much in the way of personal growth and doesn't have Cold's sophistication or planning skills, or anything else to really make him stand out, a lot of fans find him to be pretty dull.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
** Bivolo last appeared a couple of times all the way back in Season One, where he wasn't generally liked for his flat characterization. Here, he appears again, serves very little to no purpose that couldn't be taken care of by Red Death or some other generic minion, and gets the same amount of characterization.
** Reverse Flash, Zoom, Savitar, and Godspeed all return for the GrandFinale. Sadly, [[{{Jobber}} they all get defeated very quickly and easily (by side characters) almost as soon as they show up]], with Barry sharing practically no interaction with any of them.
** After 9 years of the fandom hoping to see Eddie return as a version of Cobalt Blue, they finally got to see their wish...for roughly four episodes. Technically only one as Eddie doesn't fully become a villain until the series finale. Many people have opened up that the idea of a fallen friend and member of Team Flash returning as a villain was a strong enough concept to support a larger arc, or even an entire season, as had partially been proven with Deathstorm using Ronnie's likeness to throw them off balance, particularly the final season. Not helping the fact was just how well Rick Cosnett took to the role, and how badass he looked in the suit.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* GrowingTheBeard: After three seasons that were even lackluster or mixed bags, Season 8 has been deemed one of the best seasons since the show's early days and brought back the fun spirit it once had.

Added: 554

Changed: 31

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ReplacementScrappy: ''Khione''. Caitlin fans despise her because she not only replaced Caitlin, but she also effectively sinks the Snowbarry ship. Fans who dislike Caitlin hate her because she takes time away from other characters, and pretty much everyone dislikes how she also serves as an excuse to keep [[TheScrappy Chillblaine]] around because he plays a large role in her creation. Which ends up being pointless when he leaves halfway through the season (though he comes back for the finale). She also doesn't play much of a role in Team Flash; she's not a fighter, journalist/detective, or engineer, doesn't appear to have any of Caitlin's medical knowledge, and doesn't have any other relevant abilities other than undefined powers and a "connection to nature," meaning that throughout Season 9 she either doesn't play a significant role in most episodes, or else uses her powers perfectly tailored to the plot to save the day.

to:

* ReplacementScrappy: ''Khione''. Caitlin fans despise her because she not only replaced Caitlin, but she also effectively sinks the Snowbarry ship. Fans who dislike Caitlin hate her because she takes time away from other characters, and pretty much everyone dislikes how she also serves as an excuse to keep [[TheScrappy Chillblaine]] around because he plays a large role in her creation. Which ends up being pointless when he leaves halfway through the season (though he comes back for the finale). She also doesn't play much of a role in Team Flash; she's not a fighter, journalist/detective, or engineer, doesn't appear to have any of Caitlin's medical knowledge, and doesn't have any other relevant abilities other than undefined powers and a "connection to nature," meaning that throughout Season 9 she either doesn't play a significant role in most episodes, or else uses her [[NewPowersAsThePlotDemands powers perfectly tailored to the plot plot]] to save the day. day.
* RootingForTheEmpire: The Legion of Zoom, a group of the former evil speedster {{Big Bad}}s that are summoned by Cobalt Blue so that they can team up together and change their predestined fates. Given how beloved most of these guys were (sans Godspeed), and how disliked most of the New Team Flash members are, this led a lot of fans to be rooting for the Legion of Zoom to at least do a decent job against the heroes. Their anticlimatic defeats were very poorly received by most viewers, with each of them getting one-shotted by New Team Flash members.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


t* BrokenBase:

to:

t* * BrokenBase:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I don't think Red Death is The Scrappy, some people liked her. Moving to Base Breaking Character page


* TheScrappy: Red Death is seen as yet another disappointing and bland BigBad. Already serving as ''another'' speedster villain in a series that's absolutely teeming to the brim with them, she completely fails to be intimidating like villains such as Reverse Flash and Zoom, with her lines coming across as [[{{Narm}} overly edgy]] and her [[VillainousBreakdown rage-filled breakdowns]] being hard to take seriously, with many feeling that her actress Javicia Leslie, who otherwise did a decent job as [[Series/{{Batwoman}} Ryan Wilder/Batwoman]], gave a poor performance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* [[BaseBreakingCharacter/TheFlash2014 Base-Breaking Character]]

Added: 313

Changed: 335

Removed: 12092

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Barry Allen himself, quite possibly being the most controversial of the show leads. People are split between those who feel he's a likeable character whose mistakes are reasonable, and those who feel he's a selfish idiot that really can't be trusted with the power he has.
** Iris West. In Season 1, she was either considered heartwarming for the way she cares for Barry or annoying with her LockedOutOfTheLoop subplot. Season 2 she was more liked outside of shipping wars, but over season three the "Save Iris" arc made people split on if she was an annoyingly useless DamselScrappy or a compelling character that was being poorly used and handled her apparently upcoming death with grace. In the fourth season, the fact that she became a leader in Team Flash was divisive, with some people thinking her role is unjustified thanks to her lack of both a scientific background and general experience, while others praise her new role as making great use of her journalistic instinct and the fact that as the least-suited for field work, manning tactics back at base made sense, not to mention she has far more emotional stability than other Team Flash members. She also got attacked for her initial tension with Barry when he returned while others actually [[StrawmanHasAPoint agreed with her complaints]] regarding Barry's post-return attitude. While some warmed up to her after Seasons 5 and 6 [[AuthorsSavingThrow sought to give more focus to her journalism]], others still considers her poorly written.
** Wally West is rather divisive. His initial angst, rudeness and extreme ChronicHeroSyndrome made him come off as unsympathetic to some, which was not helped by his controversial RaceLift to a black lad and his modification from Iris's nephew to her brother. Once he gains powers and the team stop trying to push him away from heroics, though, fandom seems to have split between if he's a good part of the show for being FunPersonified in his role as Kid Flash and bringing levity to an otherwise dark story, or if he's distracting and unneeded, especially given his increased prominence as Barry's protege and the potential for him to take over the show completely. [[OutOfFocus Season 4's poor treatment of him]] however made many fans cry foul, to the point ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow'' had to step in and transplant him over to their show.
** Caitlin Snow has become this over the years. Many fans love the character, claiming she is charming and that her alter ego Killer Frost delivers some of the best scenes in the series. Other fans find the character generic and feel that the writers have no idea what to do with her, stating that Killer Frost's plot is a mess [[AssPull due to Frost's inconsistent writing around her abilities and role]].
** As seasons passed, Cisco Ramon has become more polarizing with time. Some still find him funny and relatable, while others think that the writers no longer seem to know what to do with him, that he has lost the charm he had in earlier seasons and that he should be PutOnABus at this point. Having said that, [[spoiler:when he finally does depart the show, most fans were sad he was gone and wanted to see him again.]]
** Ralph Dibny. Some love him for being funny, Hartley Sawyer's performance, being less angsty than Wally (at first) and being a protege to Barry who isn't another speedster, but others see him as a ReplacementScrappy for Wally, an out of place character in general, an annoying misogynist, and pointless comic relief with juvenile and crude humour that ruins the tone of the season, all of which isn't helped by how Ralph is portrayed as an AdaptationalJerkass. He outgrows the misogynistic aspects of his character, but his constant cycle of not wanting to be a hero only to be persuaded later, and then forget that lesson in the next episode has grated on many fans. While his hatred has subsided since he became a NiceGuy in Season 5, he is still one of the reasons why Season 4 was poorly received.
** Thawne, mostly because he [[JokerImmunity just won't go away]]. Some argue this is as it should be since he's Flash's oldest and most dangerous foe; others are simply tired of him popping up again and again no matter how definitely he was killed the last time around. Despite this, no one exactly ''hates'' Thawne as a character, it's just that some think he's overstayed his welcome to the point of absurdity.
* BrokenBase:

to:

* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Barry Allen himself, quite possibly being the most controversial of the show leads. People are split between those who feel he's a likeable character whose mistakes are reasonable, and those who feel he's a selfish idiot that really can't be trusted with the power he has.
** Iris West. In Season 1, she was either considered heartwarming for the way she cares for Barry or annoying with her LockedOutOfTheLoop subplot. Season 2 she was more liked outside of shipping wars, but over season three the "Save Iris" arc made people split on if she was an annoyingly useless DamselScrappy or a compelling character that was being poorly used and handled her apparently upcoming death with grace. In the fourth season, the fact that she became a leader in Team Flash was divisive, with some people thinking her role is unjustified thanks to her lack of both a scientific background and general experience, while others praise her new role as making great use of her journalistic instinct and the fact that as the least-suited for field work, manning tactics back at base made sense, not to mention she has far more emotional stability than other Team Flash members. She also got attacked for her initial tension with Barry when he returned while others actually [[StrawmanHasAPoint agreed with her complaints]] regarding Barry's post-return attitude. While some warmed up to her after Seasons 5 and 6 [[AuthorsSavingThrow sought to give more focus to her journalism]], others still considers her poorly written.
** Wally West is rather divisive. His initial angst, rudeness and extreme ChronicHeroSyndrome made him come off as unsympathetic to some, which was not helped by his controversial RaceLift to a black lad and his modification from Iris's nephew to her brother. Once he gains powers and the team stop trying to push him away from heroics, though, fandom seems to have split between if he's a good part of the show for being FunPersonified in his role as Kid Flash and bringing levity to an otherwise dark story, or if he's distracting and unneeded, especially given his increased prominence as Barry's protege and the potential for him to take over the show completely. [[OutOfFocus Season 4's poor treatment of him]] however made many fans cry foul, to the point ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow'' had to step in and transplant him over to their show.
** Caitlin Snow has become this over the years. Many fans love the character, claiming she is charming and that her alter ego Killer Frost delivers some of the best scenes in the series. Other fans find the character generic and feel that the writers have no idea what to do with her, stating that Killer Frost's plot is a mess [[AssPull due to Frost's inconsistent writing around her abilities and role]].
** As seasons passed, Cisco Ramon has become more polarizing with time. Some still find him funny and relatable, while others think that the writers no longer seem to know what to do with him, that he has lost the charm he had in earlier seasons and that he should be PutOnABus at this point. Having said that, [[spoiler:when he finally does depart the show, most fans were sad he was gone and wanted to see him again.]]
** Ralph Dibny. Some love him for being funny, Hartley Sawyer's performance, being less angsty than Wally (at first) and being a protege to Barry who isn't another speedster, but others see him as a ReplacementScrappy for Wally, an out of place character in general, an annoying misogynist, and pointless comic relief with juvenile and crude humour that ruins the tone of the season, all of which isn't helped by how Ralph is portrayed as an AdaptationalJerkass. He outgrows the misogynistic aspects of his character, but his constant cycle of not wanting to be a hero only to be persuaded later, and then forget that lesson in the next episode has grated on many fans. While his hatred has subsided since he became a NiceGuy in Season 5, he is still one of the reasons why Season 4 was poorly received.
** Thawne, mostly because he [[JokerImmunity just won't go away]]. Some argue this is as it should be since he's Flash's oldest and most dangerous foe; others are simply tired of him popping up again and again no matter how definitely he was killed the last time around. Despite this, no one exactly ''hates'' Thawne as a character, it's just that some think he's overstayed his welcome to the point of absurdity.
*
t* BrokenBase:



* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Zoom, depending on who you ask, is either an one note InvincibleVillain with an anti-climactic EvilPlan and a poor substitute for the more engaging Reverse-Flash, or a terrifyingly intimidating and incredibly badass villain and worthy successor to Thawne. When his true identity is revealed, fans remain split on whether he's an [[EvilIsCool awesome villain]] with a [[CryForTheDevil tragic backstory]] or a cheap ReplacementScrappy with a completely inconsistent plan and personality who ruins the comics' version of Hunter Zolomon with his AdaptationalVillainy. And then there's a [[TakeAThirdOption third group of fans]] who believe that he's a good villain in his own right but a poor adaptation of the source material.
** Jesse was anticipated by ''Flash'' fans and her own fans since she's long been in limbo in the comics, due to the edict that Barry not have a Flash family. The show's version of her however; either she's another poor attempt to make yet ''another'' adorkable girl character in a franchise that already has too many, and her workaholic personality was removed for no reason to make her yet another DamselInDistress who needs to be rescued, or she's a good character who grounds Harry and gives the viewer not only a more normal character in general, but also a more normal Earth-2 character, in terms of how she reacts to everything. Even supporters want her to eventually move more in-line with her comic counterpart, however.



* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** Julian Albert, the new CSI tech. Some loved him for Creator/TomFelton's awesome acting and his frequent JerkassHasAPoint status. Others dislike him since he's an InsufferableGenius who nearly got everyone in the police station killed in [[Recap/TheFlash2014S3E3Magenta Episode 3]] because he decided to confront a metahuman all by himself just to prove his theory right rather than follow basic police protocol and he later blackmailed Barry while complaining about Barry's morality. It also really doesn't help when we learn that he's Doctor Alchemy, one of the major villains this season, though "[[Recap/TheFlash2014S3E9ThePresent The Present]]" shows he was something of [[MouthOfSauron a physical avatar/mouthpiece for Savitar]] and completely unaware of his alter-ego while giving Julian another chance to mend the fence with Barry. Even after that, his relationship with Caitlin was seen by many as StrangledByTheRedString and RomanticPlotTumor, and his treatment of her being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic.
** Savitar is likely one of the most divisive villains in the entire series. Some are irritated that [[ItsTheSameNowItSucks yet another speedster]] serves as the BigBad and consider him a [[ReplacementScrappy bland repeat]] of Reverse-Flash and Zoom, while others don't mind and feel that speed-based villains are the best to combat Barry. This just worsened when it was revealed that Savitar is [[FutureMeScaresMe a future time remnant of Barry Allen who turned evil]]. The fandom is torn between those who thought it was a clever twist, those who were [[IKnewIt happy to have predicted Savitar's identity correctly]], and those who are disappointed that the show went with the [[CaptainObviousReveal most obvious and predictable fan theory which wasn't shocking at all]]. There's also further divisive opinions on whether the reveal of Savitar's true identity was an improvement to his character or made him worse. A portion of the fanbase who felt Savitar was [[FlatCharacter generic and lackluster]] before became interested after the reveal due to curiosity over ''how'' a future Barry Allen became Savitar. Another portion felt that making him a future Barry took away his intimidation factor of being the "God of Speed" as he's really just a vulnerable man underneath, though others argue that Savitar was never intimidating to begin with and was [[{{Narm}} just silly]] prior to the reveal.



* BaseBreakingCharacter
** BigBad [=DeVoe=] himself falls into this category. For instance, IGN's reviews seem to enjoy the gravitas and menace the character lends to the season along with the ensuing StoryArc it entails, while Website/AVClub's reviews conversely feel that the show's writers themselves aren't smart enough to write for what is supposed to be the world's smartest man, making the end result seem underwhelming, and appreciating when the show takes a break from the serialized conflict. He becomes all the more polarising when Neil Sandilands stops portraying him in favor of the Bus Meta actors, whose bodies [=DeVoe=] keeps stealing. For some, the continued body theft misses the point of the intended BrainsEvilBrawnGood conflict, even if later episodes establish that [=DeVoe=]'s new hosts suffer from PossessionBurnout due to inheriting his ALS, thus necessitating his constant bodyhopping.
** Recurring antagonist Amunet Black. Is her portrayal a delightful HamAndCheese performance that neatly contrasts with the [[CreepyMonotone quieter]] and [[KnightOfCerebus far more menacing]] [[BigBad DeVoe]], or is she a cheesy under-performing villain who weakens episodes she appears in and her [[OohMeAccentsSlipping fake British accent]] so distracting that it makes the character outright annoying?



* BaseBreakingCharacter:
** While she was warmly embraced in her few appearances in Season 4, Nora West-Allen became this starting with the season. One half of the fanbase loves her and the unique dynamic she brings to the team, while the other finds her to be too childish to be likeable and considers her presence as a regular to be ridiculous, accusing Team Flash of ProtagonistCenteredMorality for letting her be in the present and change the timeline to her benefit. Her relationship with her parents and especially with Eobard Thawne has been hotly debated too. Some fans thought her initial animosity towards Iris as well-deserved due to them considering future Iris's actions to be unforgivable or [[TakeThatScrappy plainly disliking Iris]], while others thought she was being too rude to a mother trying to connect with her and that hadn't dampened her powers yet. Her affiliation with Thawne was seen as either understandable due to her naivete or as unacceptable given that she shouldn't have trusted a major Flash enemy and she hid said affiliations from their parents and the rest of the team for a long part of the season. The problem became worse as the season wore on, and she began to show arguably manipulative tendencies, like forcing Cisco to build a machine for her by pressing a TraumaButton.
** Cicada II AKA Future Grace Gibbons. While she's near-unanimously agreed to be a step-up from her [[TheScrappy predecessor and uncle]], the fanbase is still divided on whether or not she actually makes for a good villain. Her supporters cite her as having an actual [[FinalSolution plan to eliminate all meta-humans]], [[CreepyAwesome being creepily ruthless and insane]] in her goals, and see the PlotTwist of her as the ''actual'' Cicada to be a surprisingly good twist. Her detractors cite her as continuing the infamous ArcFatigue of season 5, still think she's not a competent enough villain to face Team Flash without subjecting them to TheWorfEffect, and see the PlotTwist of her being the actual Cicada as [[AssPull lazy and forced]] due to fans not liking the original Cicada.



* BaseBreakingCharacter: Aside from the ItsTheSameNowItSucks regarding new Wells characters, there have been mixed views around Harrison Nash Wells. Some like his character, while others have stated that his writing is inconsistent and confusing, specially when it comes to his role as Pariah. His role with Allegra Garcia has also been controversial.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Bivolo last appeared a couple of times all the way back in Season One, where he wasn't generally liked for his flat characterization. Here, he appears again, serves very little to no purpose that couldn't be taken care of by Red Death or some other generic minion, and gets the same amount of characterization.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
**
Bivolo last appeared a couple of times all the way back in Season One, where he wasn't generally liked for his flat characterization. Here, he appears again, serves very little to no purpose that couldn't be taken care of by Red Death or some other generic minion, and gets the same amount of characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
General clarification on work content


** Fans of Franchise/TheFlash comics and fans of the TV series don't tend to get along too well. The show is initially adapting the New 52 and ''ComicBook/TheFlashRebirth'', which are controversial stories anyway among fans of the older stories, but subsequently it begins adapting older material, but the show is still using ''Barry Allen'', when these stories were about ''Wally West''. Besides playing into the BrokenBase that exists between the two characters, it's seen as AdaptationDeviation by the latter for the heavy changes that come about changing the stories to fit around Barry, especially with the InNameOnly treatment of Wally, Zoom, Jesse Quick, and several others. Combined with being an AudienceColoringAdaptation, a lot of comic fans are unamused, especially when the show went into SeasonalRot from the second season onward. Conversely, the show is ''still'' a GatewaySeries and is one of the most watched shows on the CW, and so has a dedicated fandom who have not taken kindly to some of the criticism, which is often dismissed as just being TheyChangedItNowItSucks whining, especially fans who are unsympathetic towards the treatment of Wally West by DC, which fuels a lot of the resentment.

to:

** Fans of Franchise/TheFlash ComicBook/TheFlash comics and fans of the TV series don't tend to get along too well. The show is initially adapting the New 52 ''ComicBook/TheFlash2011'' and ''ComicBook/TheFlashRebirth'', ''ComicBook/TheFlash2016'', which are controversial stories anyway among fans of the older stories, but subsequently it begins adapting older material, but the show is still using ''Barry Allen'', when these stories were about ''Wally West''. Besides playing into the BrokenBase that exists between the two characters, it's seen as AdaptationDeviation by the latter for the heavy changes that come about changing the stories to fit around Barry, especially with the InNameOnly treatment of Wally, Zoom, Jesse Quick, and several others. Combined with being an AudienceColoringAdaptation, a lot of comic fans are unamused, especially when the show went into SeasonalRot from the second season onward. Conversely, the show is ''still'' a GatewaySeries and is one of the most watched shows on the CW, and so has a dedicated fandom who have not taken kindly to some of the criticism, which is often dismissed as just being TheyChangedItNowItSucks whining, especially fans who are unsympathetic towards the treatment of Wally West by DC, which fuels a lot of the resentment.



** Barry's tragic backstory with his mother and father and Thawne, who killed/framed them only dates back to 2009 with Creator/GeoffJohns' ''The Flash: Rebirth'', which reintroduced Barry after over two and a half decades of being dead. Not only is this show using it, the [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse DCEU]] appears to be as well.

to:

** Barry's tragic backstory with his mother and father and Thawne, who killed/framed them only dates back to 2009 with Creator/GeoffJohns' ''The Flash: Rebirth'', ''ComicBook/TheFlashRebirth'', which reintroduced Barry after over two and a half decades of being dead. Not only is this show using it, the [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse DCEU]] appears to be as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** After 9 years of the fandom hoping to see Eddie return as a version of Cobalt Blue, they finally got to see their wish...for roughly four episodes. Technically only one as Eddie doesn't fully become a villain until the series finale. Many people have opened up that the idea of a fallen friend and member of Team Flash returning as a villain was a strong enough concept to support a larger arc, or even an entire season, as had partially been proven with Deathstorm using Ronnie's likeness to throw them off balance, particularly the final season. Not helping the fact was just how well Rick Cosnett took to the role, and how badass he looked in the suit.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Misplaced, moving to the correct tab

Added DiffLines:

* FandomSpecificPlot: Any Fanfic that was made after Season 2 will usually have Linda her having Dr. Light powers. Also having her cover the particle accelerator is also common.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OnceOriginalNowCommon: When the series debuted in season one, it was the first multi-season live-action superhero series that tried to be close to the comics and even fans of the comics who didn't love it begrudgingly agreed it at least tried to adapt comic elements that previous shows of this sort avoided, and its special effects were considered decent for seasonal television. However, a few years after it started, Netflix debuted Marvel adaptations like Series/Daredevil2015 and Series/JessicaJones(2015) that not only had a higher budget but were also more faithful to their source material. And later on, Marvel shows arrived on Disney+ that had budgets on the level of theatrical releases such as Series/WandaVision while still staying true to the source material made this look nothing special in comparison in terms of a superhero comic-book adaptation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* SacredCow: The first two seasons of the show are held in ''extremely'' high regard by the fanbase as some of the best superhero TV show seasons ever. Although fans will accept any criticism of [[SeasonalRot later seasons]], criticizing the first two is highly frowned upon. You might get away with criticizing a few things about Season 2, but Season 1 is off-limits.

to:

* SacredCow: The first two seasons of the show are season is held in ''extremely'' high regard by the fanbase as some one of the best superhero TV show seasons ever. Although fans will accept any criticism of [[SeasonalRot later seasons]], criticizing the first two is highly frowned upon. You might get away with criticizing a few things about Season 2, but Season 1 is off-limits.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In the pilot, [[Series/{{Arrow}} Oliver Queen]] advises Barry that he could be better than the Arrow. An oddly prophetic line, in light of the first season of ''The Flash'' being much better received by both fans and critics than the third season of ''Arrow'' which it aired alongside.

to:

** In the pilot, [[Series/{{Arrow}} Oliver Queen]] advises Barry that he could be better than the Arrow. An oddly prophetic line, in light of the first season of ''The Flash'' being much better received by both fans and critics than the third season of ''Arrow'' which it aired alongside. Even later, ''The Flash'' as a whole would outlast ''Arrow'' by three years and 14 episodes, doubling down on this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
moving to YMMV for the Recap page. Can be re-added if additional examples are found.


* DontShootTheMessage: Even feminists thought the way "#feminism" was portrayed in "Girls Night Out" was forced due to its [[{{Anvilicious}} overuse]] and [[{{Narm}} cheesy tone]]. They have been also critical on it especially on claims of the series mishandling female friendships.

Added: 1821

Changed: 807

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CharacterPerceptionEvolution: Wally was initially a very controversial addition to the main cast due to how radically different he was from his well-loved comic-book counterpart, particularly because of his RaceLift and [[AdaptationalRelationshipOverhaul being Iris' brother rather than her nephew]]. It also didn't help that he initially came across as quite {{Wangst}}y, up to the point of being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic for some. However, thanks to him becoming [[CharacterDevelopment more in-line with the source material]], the writers' poor treatment of him [[AlasPoorScrappy making even his detractors upset]], and the later addition of even more divisive characters, many began clamoring for Wally to make a return to the series as part of the main cast, with his former detractors feeling like he got too much hate early on.

to:

* CharacterPerceptionEvolution: CharacterPerceptionEvolution:
** Barry Allen himself was originally very well-liked due to being an {{Adorkable}} AllLovingHero who many felt was more likable and charming than the Arrowverse's main protagonist, [[Series/{{Arrow}} Oliver Queen]]. However, he grew into one of the franchise's [[BaseBreakingCharacter most polarizing characters]] due to suffering from {{Flanderization}} in later seasons, making him overly reliant on his team and [[DidntThinkThisThrough prone to making reckless and questionable decisions]], with the fanbase even mockingly referring to him as [[MemeticLoser "Jobber Flash"]]. Yet former fans begin to soften up to him again with the [[Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse DCEU's]] version of Barry Allen being even ''more'' divisive in no small part due to Creator/EzraMiller's performance (as well as controversies surrounding them), which led fans to renew praise on Creator/GrantGustin's performance as the titular character, with some even hoping that he could replace Miller as the Flash in a future film.
**
Wally West was initially a very controversial addition to the main cast due to how radically different he was from his well-loved comic-book counterpart, particularly because of his RaceLift and [[AdaptationalRelationshipOverhaul being Iris' brother rather than her nephew]]. It also didn't help that he initially came across as quite {{Wangst}}y, up to the point of being UnintentionallyUnsympathetic for some. However, thanks to him becoming [[CharacterDevelopment more in-line with the source material]], the writers' poor treatment of him [[AlasPoorScrappy making even his detractors upset]], and the later addition of even more divisive characters, many began clamoring for Wally to make a return to the series as part of the main cast, with his former detractors feeling like he got too much hate early on.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* TheScrappy: Red Death is seen as yet another disappointing and bland BigBad. Already serving as ''another'' speedster villain in a series that's absolutely teeming to the brim with them, she completely fails to be intimidating like villains such as Reverse Flash and Zoom, with her lines coming across as [[{{Narm}} overly edgy]] and her [[VillainousBreakdown rage-filled breakdowns]] being hard to take seriously, with many feeling that her actress Javicia Leslie, who otherwise did a decent job as [[Series/{{Batwoman}} Ryan Wilder/Batwoman]], gave a poor performance.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Misplaced, moving to the correct tab

Added DiffLines:

* IKnewIt:
** The man on fire who does not burn up mentioned by Iris in Episode 6 being Ronnie Raymond.
** Quite a few people were able to guess that "Harrison Wells" is the Reverse-Flash before TheReveal in "The Man in the Yellow Suit" based upon various aspects of the character.
** The fact that Flash was there when Reverse-Flash killed Nora Allen.
** General Eiling being involved in the F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. project.
** Mark Mardon still being alive.
** General Eiling still being alive.
** Many fans called Ronnie returning as Deathstorm before it was officially announced.
** Black Siren's survival was correctly predicted by a number of fans. It helps that [[Creator/KatieCassidy her actress]], Creator/TeddySears, and the showrunners inadvertently spoiled it in cons (the latter two) and interviews (the former).
** Henry Allen's death was (rightfully) predicted the moment he returns after Barry lost his powers to Zoom. Barry's BigNo in [[TrailersAlwaysSpoil the trailer for that episode essentially just sealed it]].
** Zoom being the real identity of "Jay Garrick," given the numerous clues throughout the season like his Earth-1 counterpart having the same name as Zoom's true identity in the comics, or his AdaptationalWimp nature.
** The man in the iron mask was, as soon as he appeared, theorized to be the real Jay Garrick, which became more likely as we found out the truth behind Zoom. Then when Henry Allen revealed that 'Garrick' was his mother's maiden name, the already present theory that he was Henry Allen's doppelganger became so common it was assumed fact before it was revealed.
** Fans who are familiar with the comics immediately predicted a ''ComicBook/{{Flashpoint}}'' storyline after the end of Season 2 in which Barry goes back in time to save his mother from the Reverse-Flash. Sure enough, they were right.
** At the beginning of Season 3, after getting a similar twist twice in a row, people immediately suspected that Alchemy was secretly one of Barry's acquaintances. Julian was the biggest suspect, and alas, these suspicions were true. Considering [[Creator/TomFelton who plays him]] and the character's first name [[note]]Alchemy's real name in the comics is Albert Desmond.[[/note]], it's not really a surprise. However, they were not expecting to find this out until the mid-season finale. Also, it turned out that Julian wasn't aware of this, as he was being controlled by [[GreaterScopeVillain Savitar]].
** Many had speculated that the villain of the MusicalEpisode was going to be the Music Meister from ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'', voiced by Creator/NeilPatrickHarris. The fandom was delighted to find out this theory was correct, though the role was played by someone else.
** Many had speculated that Savitar is future version of Barry Allen, by interpreting his statement "I am the Future Flash" as Savitar literally saying he is a future version of Barry. More attentive fans also noticed how similar Savitar's general appearance was to that of the Future Flash introduced in the ComicBook/New52 and pointed out the contrast between how Barry's nemesis was a self-proclaimed god when Barry was constantly told throughout the season that he ''wasn't'' a god. About half the fanbase had sided with this theory before it was finally confirmed in "I Know Who You Are." Furthermore, quite a few had speculated that Savitar was a time remnant of Barry Allen, which was confirmed in "Cause and Effect".
** The theory that [=DeVoe=] would steal Ralph's body to recover his original likeness via Ralph's shape-shifting]] turned out to be true. This theory was made more popular because of Hartley Sawyer's travel to Argentina.
** Speculations that Marlize would turn on Clifford [=DeVoe=] were right. It was also rightfully guessed that Marlize would support Team Flash against [=DeVoe=]'s plan.
** Quite a few fans predicted that Barry and [=DeVoe=] would have a BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind in the finale, which turned out to be spot-on.
** Regarding the identity of Mystery Girl, there were two main camps. Either she was the future daughter of Barry and Iris; Dawn Allen, OR she was the unborn baby girl of Joe and Cecile; who was likely a {{Gender Flip}}ed Daniel West. The former turned out to be correct, although she had underwent an [[AdaptationNameChange name change]] to [[DeadGuyJunior Nora]] Allen (which some fans had ''also'' anticipated from the Speed Force induced absent-minded Barry saying "Nora shouldn't be here"). Some also speculated Mystery Girl was XS, [[CompositeCharacter which also turned out to be true]]...and then the Flash 100th episode has Eobard referring to her as "Dawn" meaning [[CanonCharacterAllAlong she is Dawn Allen after all]] but merely with a name change.
** Fans had guessed that at the Season Finale Nora would be erased from existence. An image of Barry and Iris crying raised these suspicions.
** While reading the description of "Kiss Kiss Breach Breach", fans guessed that [[spoiler:Cynthia / Gypsy]] [[BusCrash was killed off]].
** It was theorized that Thawne was inside Nash. [[spoiler:He does in "Death of the Speed Force"]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
irrelevant


** Hartley Rathaway/Pied Piper is a hard-of-hearing, gay, sarcastic smartass played by Andy Mientus, who went on to play Hanschen Rilow (same initials, too...), a sarcastic smartass in a relationship with another boy, in the Deaf West revival of ''Theatre/SpringAwakening'', which incorporated hard-of-hearing actors and American Sign Language.

to:

** Hartley Rathaway/Pied Piper is a hard-of-hearing, gay, sarcastic smartass played by Andy Mientus, who went on to play Hanschen Rilow (same initials, too...), a sarcastic smartass in a relationship with another boy, in the Deaf West revival of ''Theatre/SpringAwakening'', which incorporated hard-of-hearing actors and American Sign Language.actors.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Grant Gustin and Jordan Fisher, playing father and son, were both known for their singing abilities prior to getting cast on ''The Flash'' and both got to show off their singing chops at least once on the show. In early 2024, both actors ended up on Broadway at the same time, with Grant making his debut in the musical adaptation of ''Literature/WaterForElephants'' and Jordan replacing Orpheus in ''Theatre/{{Hadestown}}''.

Added: 245

Removed: 242

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Renamed trope


* QuestionableCasting: With the announcement of [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold the Music Meister]] appearing in the series, many fans were up in arms that they didn't bother trying to get Creator/NeilPatrickHarris for a RoleReprise.



* WTHCastingAgency: With the announcement of [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold the Music Meister]] appearing in the series, many fans were up in arms that they didn't bother trying to get Creator/NeilPatrickHarris for a RoleReprise.

Changed: 81

Removed: 2788

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trope was cut/disambiguated due to cleanup


** Pied Piper, who also crosses into EvilIsSexy for fans who swing that way, but ''damn'' is the little bastard smart.

to:

** Pied Piper, who also crosses into EvilIsSexy for fans who swing that way, but because ''damn'' is the little bastard smart.



* EvilIsSexy:
** Lisa Snart. So much that both Cisco and Barry find her very attractive.
** Weather Wizard/Mark Mardon is played by TallDarkAndHandsome Liam [=McIntyre=].
** And even though we see a brief glimpse of her, Killer Frost is at least trying to invoke this trope with her [[EvilCostumeSwitch new black costume]] and dye-job.
** Girder/Tony Woodward is played by Greg Finely is always in a sleeveless outfit. Averted to hell and back in his return as a zombie.



** Out of Zoom's Earth-2 minions, Killer Frost and Black Siren (for [[EvilIsSexy obvious]] [[ChewingTheScenery reasons]]) became instantly adored by the fanbase.

to:

** Out of Zoom's Earth-2 minions, Killer Frost and Black Siren (for [[EvilIsSexy obvious]] obvious [[ChewingTheScenery reasons]]) became instantly adored by the fanbase.



* EvilIsSexy:
** Atom Smasher to an extent. Being played by [[Wrestling/EdgeWrestler a sleeveless, former WWE wrestler]] does win him over with some fans.
** Doctor Light also qualifies, seeing as she's the Earth-2 Linda Park. She even gets naked at one point, though we don't see anything [[InvisibleStreaker because she's invisible]].
** Even before her actual appearance, Killer Frost already had dozens of fans. The [[HellBentForLeather leather outfit]] helps.
** Behind Zoom, there is the well-built, handsome man who has been impersonating Jay Garrick, Hunter Zolomon. However, he loses his attractiveness when the Time Wraiths catch him.
** Much like Doctor Light and Killer Frost, Black Siren is an evil doppelganger of an established character in the Arrowverse, this time being Laurel Lance/Black Canary. Bonus points for looking more like Black Canary than the ''actual'' Black Canary (the choker, fishnets, heels, lipstick, and trench coat are a plus).



* EvilIsSexy:
** Caitlin's Killer Frost outfit is more revealing than her Earth-2 counterpart. To be specific, it's a MiniDressOfPower and ZettaiRyouiki, showing off her legs
** For some, Savitar, given that, aside from some scarring, he still shares the face of our TallDarkAndHandsome Hero. Caitlin considers that Savitar is still handsome.



* EvilIsSexy:
** Marlize [=DeVoe=] is extremely beautiful and, while the lesser evil of the [=DeVoe=]s, is working against the heroes for a villainous endgame.
** Her husband Clifford isn't particularly sexy, being a mostly normal-looking middle-aged man, but once he starts [[GrandTheftMe body-hopping]], he generally seems to land exclusively in attractive, young people [[GenderBender of both genders]]. Of course, the fact he's stealing these bodies gives it a strong dose of FanDisservice.
** Earth-X Laurel Lance is a replacement clone of her Earth-2 counterpart and she looks great.



* EvilIsSexy:
** Despite the black blood, Ramsey Rosso is still an attractive scientist.
** [[spoiler:The Iris West clone from the Mirror dimension is as attractive as the main Iris and is very threatening and an opposite of Iris. The attractive Kamilla and Singh were also cloned.]]
** Eva [=McCulloch=] [[SheCleansUpNicely becomes stunning]] when donning her supervillain suit, as it enhances her beauty and shows her with a tied hairdo.

Added: 173

Changed: 94

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Tom Cavanagh was also a replacement Bobby Strong in the Broadway production of ''Theatre/{{Urinetown}}'', where one of his big solo numbers was called, "Run Freedom Run".



** Hartley Rathaway/Pied Piper is a hard-of-hearing, gay, sarcastic smartass played by Andy Mientus, who went on to play Hanschen Rilow (same initials, too...), a sarcastic smartass in a relationship with another boy, in the American Sign Language revival of ''Theatre/SpringAwakening''.

to:

** Hartley Rathaway/Pied Piper is a hard-of-hearing, gay, sarcastic smartass played by Andy Mientus, who went on to play Hanschen Rilow (same initials, too...), a sarcastic smartass in a relationship with another boy, in the Deaf West revival of ''Theatre/SpringAwakening'', which incorporated hard-of-hearing actors and American Sign Language revival of ''Theatre/SpringAwakening''.Language.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Zoom Zoom

Added DiffLines:

** The simple fact that the ArcVillain that our heroes must face is named Zoom. An onomatopoeia for "go fast." But the costume, the voice, and Zoom's actions manage to keep him terrifying. Just be grateful the Reverse-Flash never went by the even-stupider "Professor Zoom."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Reverse-Flash, when vibrating his face and using GlowingEyesOfDoom to hide his identity inexplicably makes him look a bit...porcine. Even more apparent when [[spoiler: MattLetcher is playing the character.]] However, his powers, his personality, his voice, and [[KnightOfCerebrus the overall "oh, shit" factor of his mere presence]] is usually more than intimidating enough to make up for it.

to:

** The Reverse-Flash, when vibrating his face and using GlowingEyesOfDoom to hide his identity inexplicably makes him look a bit...porcine. Even more apparent when [[spoiler: MattLetcher is playing the character.]] However, his powers, his personality, his voice, and [[KnightOfCerebrus [[KnightOfCerebus the overall "oh, shit" factor of his mere presence]] is usually more than intimidating enough to make up for it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Reverse-Flash, when vibrating his face and using GlowingEyesOfDoom to hide his identity inexplicably makes him look a bit...porcine. Even more apparent when [[spoiler: MattLetcher is playing the character.]] However, his powers, his personality, his voice, and [[KnightOfCerberus the overall "oh, shit" factor of his mere presence]] is usually more than intimidating enough to make up for it.

to:

** The Reverse-Flash, when vibrating his face and using GlowingEyesOfDoom to hide his identity inexplicably makes him look a bit...porcine. Even more apparent when [[spoiler: MattLetcher is playing the character.]] However, his powers, his personality, his voice, and [[KnightOfCerberus [[KnightOfCerebrus the overall "oh, shit" factor of his mere presence]] is usually more than intimidating enough to make up for it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The Reverse-Flash, when vibrating his face and using GlowingEyesOfDoom to hide his identity inexplicably makes him look a bit...porcine. Even more apparent when [[spoiler: MattLetcher is playing the character.]] However, his powers, his personality, his voice, and [[KnightOfCerberus the overall "oh, shit" factor of his mere presence]] is usually more than intimidating enough to make up for it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Good metas didn't become bad either


** A major reason for the above ArcFatigue; after becoming Killer Frost in season 3, with no explanation for ''how'' beyond "Flashpoint", the writers clearly began coming up with her story on the fly. The reason why she turns evil from her powers wasn't explained but was treated as an absolute fact (even though 'Powers Make You Evil' never beforehand being a thing, with every bad meta being bad beforehand), causing her to go on a rampage trying to get a cure, without explaining ''why'' she needed one, before later losing herself to the power and joining Savitar. At the end of the season it seemed she'd mellowed out and was now something 'in between' Caitlin and Killer Frost, but the next time we see her she's suddenly gained Dissociative Identity Disorder, which ''wasn't'' how she appeared beforehand, and from there we later learn this was a childhood condition we just never knew about. Add in that the way they'd portray the disorder with heavy Hollywood psychology and very little accuracy towards the condition, even the way it personified would change depending on the episode and plot needs.

to:

** A major reason for the above ArcFatigue; after becoming Killer Frost in season 3, with no explanation for ''how'' beyond "Flashpoint", the writers clearly began coming up with her story on the fly. The reason why she turns evil from her powers wasn't explained but was treated as an absolute fact (even though 'Powers Make You Evil' never beforehand being a thing, with every bad no other known meta being bad beforehand), changed their morality just based on their powers), causing her to go on a rampage trying to get a cure, without explaining ''why'' she needed one, before later losing herself to the power and joining Savitar. At the end of the season it seemed she'd mellowed out and was now something 'in between' Caitlin and Killer Frost, but the next time we see her she's suddenly gained Dissociative Identity Disorder, which ''wasn't'' how she appeared beforehand, and from there we later learn this was a childhood condition we just never knew about. Add in that the way they'd portray the disorder with heavy Hollywood psychology and very little accuracy towards the condition, even the way it personified would change depending on the episode and plot needs.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** A major reason for the above ArcFatigue; after becoming Killer Frost in season 3, with no explanation for ''how'' beyond "Flashpoint", the writers clearly began coming up with her story on the fly. The reason why she turns evil from her powers wasn't explained but was treated as an absolute fact (even though 'Powers Make You Evil' never beforehand being a thing, with every bat-meta being bad beforehand), causing her to go on a rampage trying to get a cure, without explaining ''why'' she needed one, before later losing herself to the power and joining Savitar. At the end of the season it seemed she'd mellowed out and was now something 'in between' Caitlin and Killer Frost, but the next time we see her she's suddenly gained Dissociative Identity Disorder, which ''wasn't'' how she appeared beforehand, and from there we later learn this was a childhood condition we just never knew about. Add in that the way they'd portray the disorder with heavy Hollywood psychology and very little accuracy towards the condition, even the way it personified would change depending on the episode and plot needs.

to:

** A major reason for the above ArcFatigue; after becoming Killer Frost in season 3, with no explanation for ''how'' beyond "Flashpoint", the writers clearly began coming up with her story on the fly. The reason why she turns evil from her powers wasn't explained but was treated as an absolute fact (even though 'Powers Make You Evil' never beforehand being a thing, with every bat-meta bad meta being bad beforehand), causing her to go on a rampage trying to get a cure, without explaining ''why'' she needed one, before later losing herself to the power and joining Savitar. At the end of the season it seemed she'd mellowed out and was now something 'in between' Caitlin and Killer Frost, but the next time we see her she's suddenly gained Dissociative Identity Disorder, which ''wasn't'' how she appeared beforehand, and from there we later learn this was a childhood condition we just never knew about. Add in that the way they'd portray the disorder with heavy Hollywood psychology and very little accuracy towards the condition, even the way it personified would change depending on the episode and plot needs.



** The idea of Frost not having Caitlin's medical knowledge, despite being stated to have all of her memories. Not only does this raise some ''huge'' FridgeLogic issues, but it seems like the only reason the writers went with it at all was to keep Caitlin relevant so she could remain the team medic.

to:

** The idea of Frost not having Caitlin's medical knowledge, despite being stated to have all of her memories. Not only does this raise some ''huge'' FridgeLogic issues, but it seems like the only reason the writers went with it at all was to keep Caitlin relevant so she could remain the team medic. On top of that, it's an outright {{Retcon}} as Frost does in fact demonstrate Caitlin's medical knowledge not long after she starts manifesting back in Season 3.

Top