History YMMV / TheElderscrollsIVOblivion

21st Sep '17 8:31:46 PM Temporary14
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking members (that is, required a short series of simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), attacks necromancy out of blind, personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and is responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well.
** Also, an Alternate Empire Interpretation: What sort of empire hosts GladiatorGames, [[CondemnedContestant using criminals as combatants,]] in the ''capital city?''
** Mankar Camoran has a few odd things about him that makes him suspect to many players. Most notably, the historical Camoran wasn't an Altmer, while the one in-game is. He confuses several Daedric Princes and their realms. He's wearing the Amulet of Kings despite not being related to the imperial family (though events in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'' could explain this). Many players suspect he's a false front for the Mythic Dawn.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking members (that is, required a short series of simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), attacks necromancy out of blind, personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and is responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well.
** Also, an Alternate Empire Interpretation: What sort of empire hosts GladiatorGames, [[CondemnedContestant using criminals as combatants,]] in the ''capital city?''
**
Mankar Camoran has a few odd things about him that makes him suspect to many players. Most notably, the historical Camoran wasn't an Altmer, while the one in-game is. He confuses several Daedric Princes and their realms. He's wearing the Amulet of Kings despite not being related to the imperial family (though events in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'' could explain this). Many players suspect he's a false front for the Mythic Dawn.Dawn.
** Also, an Alternate Empire Interpretation: What sort of empire hosts GladiatorGames, [[CondemnedContestant using criminals as combatants,]] in the ''capital city?''


Added DiffLines:

* RonTheDeathEater: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking members (that is, required a short series of simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), attacks necromancy out of blind, personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and is somehow responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well.
17th Sep '17 1:22:02 PM Temporary14
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking memberss (that is, required a short series of simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), attacks necromancy out of blind, personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and is responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well.

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking memberss members (that is, required a short series of simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), attacks necromancy out of blind, personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and is responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well.
17th Sep '17 1:20:01 PM Temporary14
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster. He "eliminated freedom of research" (forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), closed the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking memberss (that is, required a short series of quest before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), hates necromancy with blind, bigoted fervor (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), and wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm starts attacking and slaughtering guild members), and blame him for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well. The same fans also tend to whitewash the necromancers, painting them as simply disgruntled mages trying to push for reform against unfair rules, who would never steal anyone's soul before Traven pushed them to it, and are nothing like the "small niche" of Mannimarco's followers. This ignores, of course, that virtually every necromancer in the game either attacks you on sight or massacres a chapel full of innocent people for no reason, and those that speak before attacking say nothing but sadistic taunts about how they're going to mutilate your corpse after killing you. All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's goals parallel Galerion's almost to a fault.]]

to:

* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Archmage Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild from utter destruction at the hands of the necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster. monster at fault for everything that goes wrong for the Mages Guild. He "eliminated freedom of research" (forbade (that is, forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), closed betrayed the purpose of the Mages Guild by closing the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking memberss (that is, required a short series of quest simple tasks before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), hates attacks necromancy with out of blind, bigoted fervor personal hatred and to advance his own agenda (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), and wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm starts started attacking and slaughtering guild members), and blame him is responsible for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well. The same fans also tend to whitewash the necromancers, painting them as simply disgruntled mages trying to push for reform against unfair rules, who would never steal anyone's soul before Traven pushed them to it, and are nothing like the "small niche" of Mannimarco's followers. This ignores, of course, that virtually every necromancer in the game either attacks you on sight or massacres a chapel full of innocent people for no reason, and those that speak before attacking say nothing but sadistic taunts about how they're going to mutilate your corpse after killing you. All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's goals parallel Galerion's almost to a fault.]]well.



** Mannimarco, and by extension, his Necromancer followers.

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** Mannimarco, and by extension, his Necromancer followers. The same MisaimedFandom that gives Traven the RonTheDeathEater treatment will paint them as simply disgruntled mages trying to push for reform against unfair rules, who would never steal anyone's soul before Traven pushed them to it. If they acknowledge how ObviouslyEvil Mannimarco is, they'll claim that he and the Order of the Black Worm are just a "small niche" and are nothing like the average, peace-loving necromancer. This ignores, of course, that virtually every necromancer in the game either attacks you on sight and/or massacres a chapel full of innocent people for no reason, and those that speak before attacking say nothing but sadistic taunts about how they're going to mutilate your corpse after killing you. All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's goals parallel Galerion's almost to a fault.]]
17th Sep '17 1:12:16 PM Temporary14
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Plenty of people, even some in-game characters, just plain don't like the "good guy" Archmage Traven. Your interpretation of him and his apparent grudge against necromancy colors the Mages Guild quest line; from what it seems, while the necromancers are truly a threat, at least part of the Guild's fervent opposition to them is due to Traven's personal agenda.
** There's also the fact that he closed the Imperial University and eliminated freedom of research, which is antithetical to the reasons the Guild was founded in the first place. Any more than a cursory glance has Traven as a man with a grudge against necromancy who is willing to do anything to destroy it, rather than an archmage doing what's best for the guild. It certainly doesn't help that most of the smaller guildhalls are run incompetently by [[KnowNothingKnowItAll Know-Nothing Know-It-Alls]] or people who were KickedUpstairs.
*** It's mentioned several times that he severely weakened the Mages Guild. By the time of Skyrim it no longer exists, likely collapsing during the ensuing chaos [[spoiler: resulting from the Septim bloodline ending.]]

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Plenty of people, even some in-game characters, just plain don't like the "good guy" Archmage Traven. Your interpretation of him Hannibal Traven is intended to be a kindly and his apparent grudge against necromancy colors heroic guildmaster who ultimately [[HeroicSacrifice sacrifices himself]] to protect the Mages Guild quest line; from what it seems, while utter destruction at the necromancers are truly a threat, at least part hands of the Guild's fervent opposition necromancers, but some players paint him as an incompetent and draconian monster. He "eliminated freedom of research" (forbade magic that involves reanimating corpses or stealing the souls of sapient beings), closed the Arcane University to all but the highest ranking memberss (that is, required a short series of quest before initiates advanced to apprentice rank and were allowed in, rather than entering as soon as they asked to join), blacklisted over half of the Council of Mages (that is, they resigned in protest over his ban on necromancy), hates necromancy with blind, bigoted fervor (because he concluded that the risks outweigh the benefits after weighing arguments for each side, which he lays out in ''The Black Arts on Trial''), and wants to stamp out everyone who casts a single necromantic spell (because he has the guild defend itself after the Order of the Black Worm starts attacking and slaughtering guild members), and blame him for the fall of the Guild after the Oblivion Crisis and the ensuing anti-magic sentiment as well. The same fans also tend to whitewash the necromancers, painting them is due as simply disgruntled mages trying to push for reform against unfair rules, who would never steal anyone's soul before Traven pushed them to it, and are nothing like the "small niche" of Mannimarco's followers. This ignores, of course, that virtually every necromancer in the game either attacks you on sight or massacres a chapel full of innocent people for no reason, and those that speak before attacking say nothing but sadistic taunts about how they're going to mutilate your corpse after killing you. All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's personal agenda.
** There's also the fact that he closed the Imperial University and eliminated freedom of research, which is antithetical
goals parallel Galerion's almost to the reasons the Guild was founded in the first place. Any more than a cursory glance has Traven as a man with a grudge against necromancy who is willing to do anything to destroy it, rather than an archmage doing what's best for the guild. It certainly doesn't help that most of the smaller guildhalls are run incompetently by [[KnowNothingKnowItAll Know-Nothing Know-It-Alls]] or people who were KickedUpstairs.
*** It's mentioned several times that he severely weakened the Mages Guild. By the time of Skyrim it no longer exists, likely collapsing during the ensuing chaos [[spoiler: resulting from the Septim bloodline ending.
fault.]]



* DesignatedHero: If you think about it, Traven's ''not'' a very good Archmage. His very first act upon taking the position is completely outlawing Necromancy in Cyrodiil after centuries of it being tolerated and he expelled and blacklisted ''over half'' of the Council when they protested. He forces the Arcane University, one of the greatest learning centers in Tamriel, to close its doors to all but the highest ranking guildmembers, which completely contradicts the guild's original purpose. He's made the guild sever ties with any organization that so much as ''tolerates'' necromancy, putting a serious strain on both manpower and resources. Finally, the main reason he seems to hate necromancy is because it involves stealing the souls of living beings, but it's explicitly stated that they didn't start doing this until ''after'' Traven's draconian policies came into effect. There is no denying that Mannimarco is evil, but it's all but stated that the only reason his Order has become so powerful is [[NiceJobBreakingItHero because Traven's actions allowed his ranks to become bolstered by hundreds of disgruntled mages]]. As stated above, this is why the Guild fell to both the strong anti-magic sentiment that arose after the "Oblivion Crisis" and the Thalmor in the centuries between ''Oblivion'' and ''Skyrim''. If it makes anyone feel better, Traven helps you to stop Mannimarco by trapping his soul into the Order of the Black Worm's giant soul gem to protect you, and is most likely trapped in the Soul Cairn and must suffer for it.
** All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's goals parallel Galerion's almost to a fault.]]



* MisaimedFandom: Mannimarco and his Order of the Black Worm are only a small niche of Necromancers, and yet some fans believe they represent Necromancy as a whole.
1st Jul '17 1:57:51 PM littlebeeper
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* VindicatedByHistory: While ''Oblivion'' was critically acclaimed on launch, it feel into the usual Bethesda cycle of "Loved on release, disliked by many as flaws become apparent." However, among the older members of the ''Elder Scrolls'' fandom who weren't fond of the changes to ''Skyrim'' that they saw as dumbing down, this game has gotten a re-examining by fans who enjoy it more now.

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* VindicatedByHistory: While ''Oblivion'' was critically acclaimed on launch, it feel fell into the usual Bethesda cycle of "Loved on release, disliked by many as flaws become apparent." However, among the older members of the ''Elder Scrolls'' fandom who weren't fond of the changes to ''Skyrim'' that they saw as dumbing down, this game has gotten a re-examining by fans who enjoy it more now.
10th May '17 9:11:06 AM Antronach
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** All this becomes more painful to bear once you play ''Online'' and discover that [[spoiler:Galerion the Mystic, the founder of the Mage's Guild, failed to stop necromancy and Mannimarco as well, making Traven's goals parallel Galerion's almost to a fault.]]



** [[spoiler:The Bruma guildhall]], and everyone in it, getting ''blown up'' by Mannimarco during the Mages Guild questline.

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** [[spoiler:The Bruma guildhall]], guildhall, and everyone in it, getting ''blown up'' by Mannimarco during the Mages Guild questline.questline]].
28th Apr '17 11:24:06 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: Besides Mannimarco (see YMMV/TheElderScrolls), there is [[TheHeavy Mankar Camoran]], the leader of [[ApocalypseCult the Mythic Dawn]] and a worshipper of [[OmnicidalManiac Mehrunes]] [[BigBad Dagon]]. During ''Oblivion'', Mankar's goal is to summon his master into Tamriel so Dagon may destroy the world and create a new one in its place, one that coheres with Camoran's [[SocialDarwinism Social Darwinist beliefs]]. Not only does Mankar assist Dagon's [[OurDemonsAreDifferent Daedra]] in attacking the mortal world, he also orchestrates the assassination of Emperor Uriel Septim, as well as his children. He even had the city of Kvatch completely destroyed in a failed attempt to kill Uriel's bastard son, Martin. While Mankar lures in his followers with promises of a paradise for their faithful service, this turns out to be a lie. Seemingly idyllic on the surface, Mankar's "Paradise" is really a hell where his followers are constantly killed by monsters, only to be resurrected and killed over and over again. His promise to allow any follower who loses faith to leave his paradise also proves false, as the grotto, which is said to be an exit from the afterlife, really leads to a torture chamber where the unfaithful are [[AndIMustScream made immortal, locked into gibbets, and then dumped into lava]]. One follower who lost faith was forced by Camoran into inflicting this punishment on his friends over and over again. Paradise is said to be Mankar's vision of how he believes the world will be once Dagon takes over.

to:

* CompleteMonster: Besides Mannimarco (see YMMV/TheElderScrolls), there is [[TheHeavy Mankar Camoran]], the leader of [[ApocalypseCult the Mythic Dawn]] and a worshipper of [[OmnicidalManiac Mehrunes]] [[BigBad Dagon]]. During ''Oblivion'', Mankar's goal is Mehrunes Dagon]], who aims to summon his master into Tamriel so Dagon may [[OmnicidalManiac destroy the world and create a new one in its place, place]], one that coheres with Camoran's [[SocialDarwinism Social Darwinist beliefs]]. Not only does Mankar assist Dagon's [[OurDemonsAreDifferent Daedra]] in attacking the mortal world, he also orchestrates the assassination of Emperor Uriel Septim, as well as his children.[[WouldHurtAChild children]]. He even had the city of Kvatch completely destroyed in a failed attempt to kill Uriel's bastard son, Martin. While Mankar lures in his followers with promises of a paradise for their faithful service, this turns out to be a lie. Seemingly idyllic on the surface, Mankar's "Paradise" is really a hell where his followers are constantly killed by monsters, only to be resurrected and killed over and over again. His promise to allow any follower who loses faith to leave his paradise also proves false, as the grotto, which is said to be an exit from the afterlife, really leads to a torture chamber where the unfaithful are [[AndIMustScream made immortal, locked into gibbets, and then dumped into lava]]. One follower who lost faith was forced by Camoran into inflicting this punishment on his friends over and over again. Paradise is said to be Mankar's vision of how he believes the world will be once Dagon takes over.
28th Apr '17 11:21:35 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: Besides Mannimarco (see YMMV/TheElderScrolls), there is [[TheHeavy Mankar Camoran]], the leader of the Mythic Dawn {{cult}} and a worshipper of [[OmnicidalManiac Mehrunes]] [[BigBad Dagon]]. During ''Oblivion'', Mankarís goal is to summon his master into Tamriel so Dagon may destroy the world and create a new one in its place, one that coheres with Camoranís [[SocialDarwinism Social Darwinist beliefs]]. Not only does Mankar aide Dagonís Daedra in attacking the mortal world, he also orchestrates the assassination of Emperor Uriel Septim, as well as his children. He even had the city of Kvatch completely destroyed in a failed attempt to kill Urielís bastard son, Martin. While Mankar lures in his followers with promises of a paradise for their faithful service, this turns out to be a lie. Seemingly idyllic on the surface, Mankarís ďParadiseĒ is really a hell where his followers are constantly killed by monsters, only to be resurrected and killed over and over again. His promise to allow any follower who loses faith to leave his paradise also proves false, as the grotto, which is said to be an exit from the afterlife, really leads to a torture chamber where the unfaithful are [[AndIMustScream made immortal, locked into gibbets, and then dumped into lava]]. One follower who lost faith was forced by Camoran into inflicting this punishment on his friends over and over again. Paradise is said to be Mankarís vision of how he believes the world will be once Dagon takes over.

to:

* CompleteMonster: Besides Mannimarco (see YMMV/TheElderScrolls), there is [[TheHeavy Mankar Camoran]], the leader of [[ApocalypseCult the Mythic Dawn {{cult}} Dawn]] and a worshipper of [[OmnicidalManiac Mehrunes]] [[BigBad Dagon]]. During ''Oblivion'', Mankarís Mankar's goal is to summon his master into Tamriel so Dagon may destroy the world and create a new one in its place, one that coheres with Camoranís Camoran's [[SocialDarwinism Social Darwinist beliefs]]. Not only does Mankar aide Dagonís Daedra assist Dagon's [[OurDemonsAreDifferent Daedra]] in attacking the mortal world, he also orchestrates the assassination of Emperor Uriel Septim, as well as his children. He even had the city of Kvatch completely destroyed in a failed attempt to kill Urielís Uriel's bastard son, Martin. While Mankar lures in his followers with promises of a paradise for their faithful service, this turns out to be a lie. Seemingly idyllic on the surface, Mankarís ďParadiseĒ Mankar's "Paradise" is really a hell where his followers are constantly killed by monsters, only to be resurrected and killed over and over again. His promise to allow any follower who loses faith to leave his paradise also proves false, as the grotto, which is said to be an exit from the afterlife, really leads to a torture chamber where the unfaithful are [[AndIMustScream made immortal, locked into gibbets, and then dumped into lava]]. One follower who lost faith was forced by Camoran into inflicting this punishment on his friends over and over again. Paradise is said to be Mankarís Mankar's vision of how he believes the world will be once Dagon takes over.
26th Mar '17 2:44:08 PM Gosicrystal
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** The disposition roulette can be this until you learn how it works, and even then your speech can make certain things LostForever; thankfully bribing enough can cover you if you fail.

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** The disposition roulette can be this until you learn how it works, and even then your speech can make certain things LostForever; {{permanently missable|Content}}; thankfully bribing enough can cover you if you fail.
10th Mar '17 2:31:33 PM SorPepita
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* {{Narm}}: The random conversations between NPCs can sometimes become this. A good example is when they suddenly start talking about mudcrabs and how ugly they are.

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* {{Narm}}: The random conversations between NPCs [=NPCs=] can sometimes become this. A good example is when they suddenly start talking about mudcrabs and how ugly they are.
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