History YMMV / TalesoftheAbyss

13th Aug '17 1:29:14 AM SeptimusHeap
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* FanPreferredCouple: OneTruePairing notwithstanding (see below), given the amounts of HoYay and FoeYay in the game, Luke tends to get shipped with [[LauncherOfAThousandShips several people]]. The biggest ships being [[HoYay Luke-Guy]], [[FoeYay Luke-]][[MentorShip Van]], [[ScrewYourself Luke-Asch]]. On the female side, Luke also gets shipped with [[{{Lolicon}} Anise]] and [[ChildhoodMarriagePromise Natalia]].

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* FanPreferredCouple: OneTruePairing notwithstanding (see below), given the amounts of HoYay and FoeYay in the game, Luke tends to get shipped with [[LauncherOfAThousandShips several people]]. The biggest ships being [[HoYay Luke-Guy]], [[FoeYay Luke-]][[MentorShip Van]], [[ScrewYourself Luke-Asch]]. On the female side, Luke also gets shipped with [[{{Lolicon}} Anise]] Anise and [[ChildhoodMarriagePromise Natalia]].



* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Luke. From how the fandom handles it, he ''really'' gets around from [[ScrewYourself Asch]] to [[LoliCon Anise]].

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* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Luke. From how the fandom handles it, he ''really'' gets around from [[ScrewYourself Asch]] to [[LoliCon Anise]].Anise.
31st Jul '17 10:07:58 PM LovePsychothefirst
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* DesignatedHero: ''The entire party'' (minus Ion) post [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] as explained [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic below]]. Their treatment of Luke falls flat [[spoiler: when it turns out a good chunk of them ''knew'' something in regards to the entire incident (Guy knew about Van's plans, Tear had all the reason to see Van as the BigBad, Jade had figured out key information, and Anise was [[TheMole working for Mohs]]) and most of them also know at this point that Luke is truly seven.]]

to:

* DesignatedHero: ''The entire party'' (minus Ion) post [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] as explained [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic below]]. Their treatment of Luke falls flat [[spoiler: when it turns out a good chunk of them ''knew'' something in regards to the entire incident (Guy knew about Van's plans, Tear had all the reason to see Van as the BigBad, Jade had figured out key information, and Anise was [[TheMole working for Mohs]]) Mohs]] plus Natalia heard enough of Luke's conversation with Van pre mission to be ''somewhat'' suspcious) and most of them also know at this point that Luke is truly seven.]]
29th Jul '17 6:04:23 PM LovePsychothefirst
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** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]'']] [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler?]]

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** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]'']] [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:who who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, [[spoiler: a developmental grade-schooler?]]
28th Jul '17 5:02:10 PM LovePsychothefirst
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** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]'']] [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:[[DesignatedVillain who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?]]

to:

** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]'']] [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:[[DesignatedVillain who [[spoiler:who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?]]grade-schooler?]]
22nd Jul '17 11:34:23 AM LovePsychothefirst
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** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]]]'' [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?]]

to:

** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his]]]]'' his]]'']] [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain [[spoiler:[[DesignatedVillain who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?]]
22nd Jul '17 11:25:32 AM LovePsychothefirst
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** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this and/or DesignatedHero in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. [[DisproportionateRetribution Tear flat out says he's to blame]] and ''encourages'' Luke's GuiltComplex, [[DisproportionateRetribution while Jade and Anise continue to berate him]] and, in Anise's case, ''encourage him to die''. Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.

to:

** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this and/or DesignatedHero in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. [[DisproportionateRetribution Tear flat out says he's to blame]] and ''encourages'' Luke's GuiltComplex, [[DisproportionateRetribution while Jade and Anise continue to berate him]] him and, in Anise's case, ''encourage ''[[DisproportionateRetribution encourage him to die''.die]]''. Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.
22nd Jul '17 11:21:20 AM LovePsychothefirst
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** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this and/or DesignatedHero in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. [[DisproportionateRetribution Tear flat out says he's to blame and ''encourages'' Luke's]] GuiltComplex, [[DisproportionateRetribution while Jade and Anise continue to berate him and, in Anise's case, ''encourage him to die''.]] Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.
** Van. His status as a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds gets hard to swallow when you take into account his hypocrisy, the sheer amount of people he's killed, and his treatment of ''both'' Asch and Luke. It's hard to consider him well intentioned when he spends so much time doing ''incredibly'' wrong things for the sake of his goals.

to:

** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this and/or DesignatedHero in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. [[DisproportionateRetribution Tear flat out says he's to blame blame]] and ''encourages'' Luke's]] Luke's GuiltComplex, [[DisproportionateRetribution while Jade and Anise continue to berate him him]] and, in Anise's case, ''encourage him to die''.]] die''. Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.
** Van.The BigBad. His status as a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds gets hard to swallow when you take into account his hypocrisy, the sheer amount of people he's killed, and his treatment of ''both'' Asch and Luke. It's hard to consider him well intentioned when he spends so much time doing ''incredibly'' wrong things for the sake of his goals.
18th Jul '17 9:47:32 AM SeekerSS
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** Anise. [[spoiler: She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]] No wonder many player claimed her as an DesignatedHero.

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** Anise. [[spoiler: She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]] No wonder many player claimed her as an a DesignatedHero.
18th Jul '17 2:37:47 AM SeekerSS
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* DesignatedHero: ''The entire party'' (minus Ion) post [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] as explained [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic below]]. Their treatment of Luke falls flat [[spoiler: when it turns out a good chunk of them ''knew'' something in regards to the entire incident (Guy knew about Van's plans, Tear had all the reason to see Van as the BigBad, Jade had figured out key information, and Anise was [[TheMole working for Mohs]]) and most of them also know at this point that Luke is truly seven.]]
* DesignatedVillain: Though Luke is an incredible ass about it, he's not exactly wrong when he says "[[NeverMyFault It's not my fault!]]" in regards to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth.]] One can blame him for being an arrogant ass about things [[spoiler: but as Van tricked him and then forced him into destroying Akzeriuth, there's only so much a [[YoungerThanTheyLook seven year old]] can do in regards to his ParentalSubstitute turning out to be the BigBad. While plenty of the rest of the party (Tear, Guy, and Jade in particular) possessed information that would have had a good chance of adverting events if they had brought it up. Luke, on the other hand, was handicapped from the start and that's without bringing in the fact he was sent ''knowing'' he would, according to the Score, destroy Akzeriuth and himself so they could kick off a war. The BrokenAesop on the main page also points out no one gave Luke a ''good'' reason to distrust Van aside from saying he should think more critically.]]



** Anise. [[spoiler: [[DesignatedHero She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]]]]

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** Anise. [[spoiler: [[DesignatedHero She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]]]]]] No wonder many player claimed her as an DesignatedHero.
18th Jul '17 1:25:55 AM SeekerSS
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** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:literal]] child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his "friends" [[spoiler:who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?
*** By that same token, Luke's friends. Are they scapegoating someone who really couldn't have known better in order to hide from what they could have done while not trusting in him more, or are they correct in that Luke's lack of thought renders him easily manipulable? [[spoiler:And should some of them who were more in-the-know have had a bit more respect for the fact that he's a ''literal'' ManChild with the knowledge and emotional development to match? Tear at least gets points for twigging to this earlier and subtly altering her treatment of Luke to match, but should she, Jade and maybe Guy have pulled the others to the side to explain? Or for that matter, should Guy have been more proactive in trying to guide Luke once it was getting obvious Van wasn't doing a great job?]]

to:

** Luke in the first part: Wangsty loser who just ''does not shut up'', or [[spoiler:literal]] [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain literal child betrayed by both sets of parental figures and treated as a scapegoat by his "friends" [[spoiler:who his]]]]'' [[DesignatedHero "friends"]] [[spoiler:''[[DesignatedVillain who to varying degrees may or may not know they're picking on someone who is, in many ways, a developmental grade-schooler]]?
grade-schooler]]?]]
*** By that same token, Luke's friends. [[DesignatedHero Are they scapegoating someone who really couldn't have known better in order to hide from what they could have done while not trusting in him more, more]], or are they correct in that Luke's lack of thought renders him easily manipulable? [[spoiler:And should some of them who were more in-the-know have had a bit more respect for the fact that he's a ''literal'' ManChild with the knowledge and emotional development to match? Tear at least gets points for twigging to this earlier and subtly altering her treatment of Luke to match, but should she, Jade and maybe Guy have pulled the others to the side to explain? Or for that matter, should Guy have been more proactive in trying to guide Luke once it was getting obvious Van wasn't doing a great job?]]



** Anise: JerkassWoobie or {{Jerkass}} KarmaHoudini? [[spoiler:Or flat-out {{Woobie}} because she was set up to never win from the start and gets to watch someone she cares deeply about ''die horribly''?]]
** Asch. He's either a tragic victim, or an emotionaly simple villain who murdered scores of people and who can't deal with complex situations.

to:

** Anise: JerkassWoobie or {{Jerkass}} DesignatedHero KarmaHoudini? [[spoiler:Or flat-out {{Woobie}} because she was set up to never win from the start and gets to watch someone she cares deeply about ''die horribly''?]]
** Asch. He's either a tragic victim, or or an emotionaly simple villain who murdered scores of people and who can't deal with complex situations.



** [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] and to what extent it was Luke's fault. On the one hand, was the disaster caused by Luke's selfishness (wanting to save the people only so he could become a hero and pursue his own agenda, and not caring about the people themselves or taking their suffering seriously), arrogance (blithely believing he could singlehandedly save the entire city despite having no training in hyperresonance), failure to tell the others about the plan (even Guy, whom he trusted), and blind faith in Van ([[spoiler:even after Van admitted to kidnapping Luke, giving a very flimsy justification[[note]]after all, if Van was saving Luke from painful and horrific experiments regarding his hyperresonance, why didn't these experiments resume once Luke returned?[[/note]] which directly contradicted what Van had told him only a few days before on the ferry]])? On the other hand, Luke was [[spoiler: only seven years old]]; Van was a father figure to Luke (Luke comments that Van was the only one to praise him, scold him, take him seriously); Van was in a position of trust and authority, being the Commandant of the Order of Lorelei, which shows that he was well respected in the world at large (including some of Luke's traveling companions); Luke's traveling companions, despite admonishing him to think for himself, intentionally withheld critical information from him (including Tear's failure to tell him why she wanted to kill Van), refused to give him an alternate perspective other that Tear's claims that Van was evil because she said so, and acted in a dodgy manner; and the fact that Luke was hypnotized into carrying out the final, fatal act. Arguing either way would often lead to InternetBackdraft.

to:

** [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] and to what extent it was Luke's fault. On the one hand, was the disaster caused by Luke's selfishness (wanting to save the people only so he could become a hero and pursue his own agenda, and not caring about the people themselves or taking their suffering seriously), arrogance (blithely believing he could singlehandedly save the entire city despite having no training in hyperresonance), failure to tell the others about the plan (even Guy, whom he trusted), and blind faith in Van ([[spoiler:even after Van admitted to kidnapping Luke, giving a very flimsy justification[[note]]after all, if Van was saving Luke from painful and horrific experiments regarding his hyperresonance, why didn't these experiments resume once Luke returned?[[/note]] which directly contradicted what Van had told him only a few days before on the ferry]])? On the other hand, Luke was [[spoiler: only seven years old]]; Van was a father figure to Luke (Luke comments that Van was the only one to praise him, scold him, take him seriously); Van was in a position of trust and authority, being the Commandant of the Order of Lorelei, which shows that he was well respected in the world at large (including some of Luke's traveling companions); Luke's traveling companions, despite admonishing him to think for himself, [[DesignatedHero intentionally withheld critical information from him (including Tear's failure to tell him why she wanted to kill Van), refused to give him an alternate perspective other that Tear's claims that Van was evil because she said so, and acted in a dodgy manner; manner]]; and the fact that [[DesignatedVillain Luke was hypnotized into carrying out the final, fatal act. act.]] Arguing either way would often lead to InternetBackdraft.



** Anise [[spoiler: She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]] And yet she is a complete KarmaHoudini after all of this.

to:

** Anise Anise. [[spoiler: [[DesignatedHero She betrays the party, almost gets them killed, flat-out DOES get Ion killed, and kills Arietta rather than talking things out with her when she has the chance.]] And yet she is a complete KarmaHoudini after all of this.]]]]



** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. Tear flat out says he's to blame and ''encourages'' Luke's GuiltComplex, while Jade and Anise continue to berate him and, in Anise's case, ''encourage him to die''. Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.

to:

** For that matter ''the entire party'' falls under this and/or DesignatedHero in regards to how they treat Luke. Many players felt like the party members blaming Luke for [[spoiler: the destruction of Akzeriuth]] is hypocritical as the major reason that Luke ended up trusting Van was because, despite being shown he's ''extremely'' sheltered and has no idea how the world works (including having to be taught the concept of shopping) while being functionally ''seven'' due to his amnesia [[spoiler: and is eventually revealed to ''[[YoungerThanTheyLook actually be seven]]'']], they regularly ignored him, berated him for understandably not knowing things, tell him to shut up when he demands to know things, and '''refused''' to explain why he ''shouldn't'' do the thing that lead to [[spoiler: Akzeriuth]] or why not trust Van. With Van thus being the ReasonableAuthorityFigure ''and'' a ParentalSubstitute to Luke, why wouldn't Luke trust him over the so-called "friends" of his? And they don't get better even after Luke's ImportantHaircut! Though Guy genuinely means well and admits to his own part to play in the disaster, he's very wishy-washy about defending Luke against the others comments and actions. [[DisproportionateRetribution Tear flat out says he's to blame and ''encourages'' Luke's Luke's]] GuiltComplex, [[DisproportionateRetribution while Jade and Anise continue to berate him and, in Anise's case, ''encourage him to die''. die''.]] Natalia is too busy wrapped up in her own, rather self-centered, issues to help either. By the time they actually start treating Luke better, he's a massive mess mentally speaking and it's way too late for him to be able take their advice.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TalesoftheAbyss