History YMMV / StargateAtlantis

27th Feb '18 12:13:15 PM DarkPhoenix94
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** You wouldn't believe how many {{fangirl}}s Todd has. Although Todd, despite being a ManipulativeBastard, has saved Atlantis' hide a number of times and has never tried to destroy them (despite multiple opportunities) or use what he has gained from them against them (except for the Otterus device incident). Although self-serving and human-eating, you. really can't classify Todd as a villain all that much, let alone one of Michael's OmnicidalManiac caliber.

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** You wouldn't believe how many {{fangirl}}s Todd has. Although Todd, despite being a ManipulativeBastard, has saved Atlantis' hide a number of times and has never tried to destroy them (despite multiple opportunities) or use what he has gained from them against them (except for the Otterus Attero device incident).incident, and even then, he genuinely thought they'd stabbed him in the back). Although self-serving and human-eating, you. really can't classify Todd as a villain all that much, let alone one of Michael's OmnicidalManiac caliber.



** The Asurans. The Lanteans tried to wipe them out, and the Atlantis Expedition later tries exactly the same because they're ''dangerous''. Its even noted at one point that the reason they're envious of Humanity is because they see us as the favourite son who recieved all father's attention.

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** The Asurans. The Lanteans tried to wipe them out, and the Atlantis Expedition later tries exactly the same because they're ''dangerous''. Its even noted at one point that the reason they're envious of Humanity is because they see us as the favourite son who recieved received all father's attention.



** But this only happened because instead of rejoicing in creating artificial intelligence so advanced that it developed consciousness and compassion, and ''taking out the aggressive programming that made them a threat'', the Altarens decided that they were NotEvenHuman and just wiped them out. After being treated like that its no wonder they are so distanced from biological intelligence: the only ones they knew were AbusiveParents.

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** But this only happened because instead of rejoicing in creating artificial intelligence so advanced that it developed consciousness and compassion, and ''taking out the aggressive programming that made them a threat'', the Altarens Alterans decided that they were NotEvenHuman and just wiped them out. After being treated like that its no wonder they are so distanced from biological intelligence: the only ones they knew were AbusiveParents.AbusiveParents.
*** Though it is also worth noting that while this isn't exactly out of character of the Alterans, we only hear the Asurans' side of the story.



** Major Sheppard also gets a moment like this every so often, including and especially at the end of the series, when he's trying to talk "Todd" into helping them fight another Wraith. "Todd" asks Sheppard why he should do it when it would leave "Todd" the prisoner of Atlantis and without any leverage.

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** Major Sheppard also gets a moment like this every so often, including and especially at the end of the series, when he's trying to talk "Todd" into helping them fight another Wraith. "Todd" asks Sheppard why he should do it when it would leave "Todd" the prisoner of Atlantis and without any leverage.


Added DiffLines:

*** Except that she didn't humiliate - at worst, she was brusque, and he then went on to whine about how she'd bruised his ego, trying a power play when the clock was ticking.
22nd Feb '18 11:36:07 PM ApeAccount
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** Kavanagh in 38 Minutes. His concern about the danger of the Jumper fragments killing people may well have been reasonable. Weir had no basis for thinking it wasn't other than the fact that the other scientists regarded it as a remote possibility. Yet, when he responded by acknowledging that he at least had to point it out (and without him having pushed the issue any further than that), it was actually Weir who wasted the time of the team by taking the time out of her schedule to undercut and humiliate him in front of his people. In fact, there was no indication that if Weir has simply treated his opinion like a valid scientific consideration rather than the ravings of a coward that he'd have had a problem with it. Yet when he called her on it she was treated as being in the right.
*** Except... she didn't. She went to listen to the ideas being put out by the braintrust, and dismissed Kavanagh's idea - perhaps bluntly, but time was of the essence. Kavanagh then followed her, not to argue in favour of his idea, but to whine about how she'd bruised his ego, wasting valuable time in the process. He then tried to claim, when she said that the discussion was definitely over, that it wasn't, attempting to undercut ''her'' authority.

to:

** Kavanagh in 38 Minutes. His concern about the danger of the Jumper fragments killing people may well have been reasonable. Weir had no basis for thinking it wasn't other than the fact that the other scientists regarded it as a remote possibility. Yet, when he responded by acknowledging that he at least had to point it out (and without him having pushed the issue any further than that), it was actually Weir who wasted the time of the team by taking the time out of her schedule to undercut and humiliate him in front of his people. In fact, there was no indication that if Weir has simply treated his opinion like a valid scientific consideration rather than the ravings of a coward that he'd have had a problem with it. Yet He was wrong to waste the time calling her out for her behaviour when he called did, but her on it she behaviour was also wrong. Yet the fact that he's a jerk meant that his point about her behaviour was treated as being in the right.
*** Except... she didn't. She went to listen to the ideas being put out by the braintrust, and dismissed Kavanagh's idea - perhaps bluntly, but time was of the essence. Kavanagh then followed her, not to argue in favour of his idea, but to whine about how she'd bruised his ego, wasting valuable time in the process. He then tried to claim, when she said
automatically wrong, rather that the discussion was definitely over, that it wasn't, attempting simply his timing in reacting to undercut ''her'' authority.her behaviour.
12th Feb '18 11:57:29 AM SorPepita
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* HoYay: Lets see;
** Sheppard and [=McKay=] are everyone's favorites with scenes that seems to back it up (the end of "Irresistible", for example, where McKay takes a herb that makes people enamored of its user, knowing full well that Sheppard is the only person on Atlantis that hasn't been inoculated against the {{Pheromones}}).

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* HoYay: Lets Let's see;
** Sheppard and [=McKay=] are everyone's favorites with scenes that seems to back it up (the end of "Irresistible", for example, where McKay [=McKay=] takes a herb that makes people enamored of its user, knowing full well that Sheppard is the only person on Atlantis that hasn't been inoculated against the {{Pheromones}}).



** The whole SeriesFinale, with idiot plotholes, stupid character decisions and {{Ass Pull}}s all around. To give an idea of the problems in just one aspect of the finale: bringing Sheppard to Earth and not putting him in the chair but letting him pilot a [=302=] instead because...? Putting the chair not half a mile under what amounts to an icy fortress with one entrance (Antarctica), or a similar easily defendable structure, but in an easily targeted warehouse with no air defence because....? The stupidity of defending the entire earth with a handful of [=302s=] because....?
*** One thing that becomes ''really'' frustrating is that a number of simple solutions to any one of a number of situations present themselves, and the characters steadfastly ignore them with not even so much as a HandWave to explain why.. For example, when Atlantis finds that upon dialling Earth, the wormhole opens in the modified hive ship, which has a gate inside it, why they don't simply overload one (or even two) of a number of Atlantis's now surplus naquada reactors and throw it through the wormhole to blow up the hive ship is because....? They could have thrown through any number of explosives, over-loaded reactors, energy weapons, shot drones from a puddle jumper, or even overloaded the gate, but they send through one team of people instead.... [[FlatWhat What.]]

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** The whole SeriesFinale, with idiot plotholes, stupid character decisions and {{Ass Pull}}s all around. To give an idea of the problems in just one aspect of the finale: bringing Sheppard to Earth and not putting him in the chair but letting him pilot a [=302=] instead because...? Putting the chair not half a mile under what amounts to an icy fortress with one entrance (Antarctica), or a similar easily defendable structure, but in an easily targeted warehouse with no air defence because....because...? The stupidity of defending the entire earth with a handful of [=302s=] because....because...?
*** One thing that becomes ''really'' frustrating is that a number of simple solutions to any one of a number of situations present themselves, and the characters steadfastly ignore them with not even so much as a HandWave to explain why..why. For example, when Atlantis finds that upon dialling Earth, the wormhole opens in the modified hive ship, which has a gate inside it, why they don't simply overload one (or even two) of a number of Atlantis's now surplus naquada reactors and throw it through the wormhole to blow up the hive ship is because....? They could have thrown through any number of explosives, over-loaded reactors, energy weapons, shot drones from a puddle jumper, or even overloaded the gate, but they send through one team of people instead....instead... [[FlatWhat What.]]
12th Feb '18 11:56:08 AM SorPepita
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Rodney [=McKay=]. You either like that the smart guy is the one who saves the day or find him incredibly grating. The fact that it is often very easy for one person to be in both camps ''at the same time'' makes things... confusing? There is also a persistent fan theory that as the show went on, Rodney evolved into the AuthorAvatar for the writers, especially with the amount of backstory and screen time he received in comparison to the rest of the cast. (If you subscribe to this theory, it makes a hell of a lot more sense about Dr. Keller being paired with Rodney...of course the CreatorsFavorite and AuthorAvatar would get together.)

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Rodney [=McKay=]. You either like that the smart guy is the one who saves the day or find him incredibly grating. The fact that it is often very easy for one person to be in both camps ''at the same time'' makes things... confusing? There is also a persistent fan theory that as the show went on, Rodney evolved into the AuthorAvatar for the writers, especially with the amount of backstory and screen time he received in comparison to the rest of the cast. (If you subscribe to this theory, it makes a hell of a lot more sense about Dr. Keller being paired with Rodney... of course the CreatorsFavorite and AuthorAvatar would get together.)



** In "Infection" where Sheppard comes across 'Todd's completely defenceless diseased Wraith hive ship where his entire crew - now having undergone a gene therapy where they can no longer feed - are in stasis pods. Originally the plan was to just leave them or blow up the ship, However, because of the ship's malfunctions there is an off-chance that they might break free from the pods. Sheppard's solution? Suffocate the hundreds of Wraith in their pods and use C4 to blow up any pods that are unresponsive to the "suffocate their occupants" command. The Team decided that if the gene therapy really was effective at killing Wraith, they should try to disseminate it to as many Wraith as possible for use as a biological weapon.

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** In "Infection" where Sheppard comes across 'Todd's Todd's completely defenceless diseased Wraith hive ship where his entire crew - now having undergone a gene therapy where they can no longer feed - are in stasis pods. Originally the plan was to just leave them or blow up the ship, However, because of the ship's malfunctions there is an off-chance that they might break free from the pods. Sheppard's solution? Suffocate the hundreds of Wraith in their pods and use C4 to blow up any pods that are unresponsive to the "suffocate their occupants" command. The Team decided that if the gene therapy really was effective at killing Wraith, they should try to disseminate it to as many Wraith as possible for use as a biological weapon.



** As for Kavanaugh, while he does come up with semi-decent ideas, he is also: spectacularly irritating; [[SmugSnake of the belief that he's much smarter and more important than he is]] - while he's smart, he's not McKay[=/=]Carter smart, as he seems to believe, nor is he an especially important member of the science team, let alone the expedition at large; prone to putting his ego before everything else, even in a crisis. His complaint to Weir in his first appearance isn't about his idea not being taken seriously, it's about his ego being bruised. He also claims, when the discussion is very much over, that it isn't, assuming that he can dictate to Weir, completely disregarding her authority.

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** As for Kavanaugh, while he does come up with semi-decent ideas, he is also: spectacularly irritating; [[SmugSnake of the belief that he's much smarter and more important than he is]] - while he's smart, he's not McKay[=/=]Carter [=McKay=][=/=]Carter smart, as he seems to believe, nor is he an especially important member of the science team, let alone the expedition at large; prone to putting his ego before everything else, even in a crisis. His complaint to Weir in his first appearance isn't about his idea not being taken seriously, it's about his ego being bruised. He also claims, when the discussion is very much over, that it isn't, assuming that he can dictate to Weir, completely disregarding her authority.
12th Feb '18 11:54:33 AM SorPepita
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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Doctor Zelenka returning from the planet of the children in "Critical Mass", and Rodney commenting "Mister Mom...fun with the kids?" (He's covered in facepaint and has straws woven into his hair) Zelenka turns to him and says: "Do not even speak to me!"

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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Doctor Zelenka returning from the planet of the children in "Critical Mass", and Rodney commenting "Mister Mom... fun with the kids?" (He's covered in facepaint and has straws woven into his hair) Zelenka turns to him and says: "Do not even speak to me!"



** On the other hand, when the non-human beings in the galaxy are mostly composed of PsychicVampires who eat humans (''only'' humans) and enjoy it, and the Pegasus version of the Replicators, who have repeatedly almost devoured and destroyed ''two entire galaxies'' - and in the case of the Pegasus versions, have at the very least shown an inclination towards MindRape (on good days) and omnicide (on bad ones) when dealing with humans, you can kind of see why they might be willing to cross some lines.

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** On the other hand, when the non-human beings in the galaxy are mostly composed of PsychicVampires psychic vampires who eat humans (''only'' humans) and enjoy it, and the Pegasus version of the Replicators, who have repeatedly almost devoured and destroyed ''two entire galaxies'' - and in the case of the Pegasus versions, have at the very least shown an inclination towards MindRape (on good days) and omnicide (on bad ones) when dealing with humans, you can kind of see why they might be willing to cross some lines.
1st Feb '18 11:05:37 AM DarkPhoenix94
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* DesignatedVillain: Bates, Kavanaugh and Ellis tend to end up in this role. [[StrawmanHasAPoint They usually have legitimate concerns or complaints]], but because these are expressed, usually against the main characters, in a way that is distinctly in favour of their own self-interest and usually to the detriment of others that they are willing to sacrifice, the characters are presented as reactionary jerkasses. Bates seeing Teyla as a security risk and willing to essentially exile her people, hence putting them in great danger in order to protect the expedition members; Kavanaugh complaining to Weir about Weir being somewhat rude to him in front of his team when he prioritises and focuses on a course of action that puts the safety of Atlantis first no matter the risk assessment or loss of life (although what is more the issue is that in an emergency when time is crucial and lives are depending on him and his team, he takes time out to go and complain to Weir about her behavior, dismissing and mocking her authority in the process); Ellis undercutting Weir's authority behind her back because she challenges his opinion and his own authority, and wanting [=McKay=] to cut the exposition and get to the point in a way that pointedly bullies and demeans him). There is also a trend of portraying Kavanaugh, in his few appearances, as a coward even though every time he is up against a situation in which his fear is perfectly understandable, although he does consistently advocate a course of action that will save himself and whoever is with him while sacrificing other people, sometimes even when the risk to himself is minimal. [[hottip:note:in addition, because Kavanaugh left the conference where the scientists were trying to save Sheppard's team within the 38 minute Stargate wormhole deadline, to confront Weir about her behaviour towards him, wasting a few minutes of very little time, he is also branded as being selfish.]]

to:

* DesignatedVillain: Bates, Kavanaugh and Ellis tend to end up in this role. [[StrawmanHasAPoint They usually have legitimate concerns or complaints]], but because these are expressed, usually against the main characters, in a way that is distinctly in favour of their own self-interest and usually to the detriment of others that they are willing to sacrifice, the characters are presented as reactionary jerkasses. Bates seeing Teyla as a security risk and willing to essentially exile her people, hence putting them in great danger in order to protect the expedition members; Kavanaugh complaining to Weir about Weir being somewhat rude to him in front of his team when he prioritises and focuses on a course of action that puts the safety of Atlantis first no matter the risk assessment or loss of life (although what is more the issue is that in an emergency when time is crucial and lives are depending on him and his team, he takes time out to go and complain to Weir about her behavior, behaviour and how it bruised his ego, dismissing and mocking her authority in the process); Ellis undercutting Weir's authority behind her back because she challenges his opinion and his own authority, and wanting [=McKay=] to cut the exposition and get to the point in a way that pointedly bullies and demeans him). There is also a trend of portraying Kavanaugh, in his few appearances, as a coward even though every time he is up against a situation in which his fear is perfectly understandable, although he does consistently advocate a course of action that will save himself and whoever is with him while sacrificing other people, sometimes even when the risk to himself is minimal. [[hottip:note:in addition, because Kavanaugh left the conference where the scientists were trying to save Sheppard's team within the 38 minute Stargate wormhole deadline, to confront Weir about her behaviour towards him, wasting a few minutes of very little time, he is also branded as being selfish.]]



** Kavanagh in 38 Minutes. His concern about the danger of the Jumper fragments killing people may well have been reasonable. Weir had no basis for thinking it wasn't other than the fact that the other scientists regarded it as a remote possibility. Yet, when he responded by acknowledging that he at least had to point it out (and without him having pushed the issue any further than that), it was actually Weir who wasted the time of the team by taking the time out of her schedule to undercut and humiliate him in front of his people. In fact, there was no indication that if Weir has simply treated his opinion like a valid scientific consideration rather than the ravings of a coward that he'd have had a problem with it. Yet when he called her on it (admittedly when time was short, but not without having reason to be upset about the way she was acting which could actually be endangering lives) she was treated as being in the right.
** Michael points out the considering the Atlantis expedition's treatment of not only him but anything that isn't human or is a threat, they are incredibly similar to the Wraith. The fact is, he's right. If the Atlantis expedition had been the bad guys, their behavior would have put them beyond the MoralEventHorizon.

to:

** Kavanagh in 38 Minutes. His concern about the danger of the Jumper fragments killing people may well have been reasonable. Weir had no basis for thinking it wasn't other than the fact that the other scientists regarded it as a remote possibility. Yet, when he responded by acknowledging that he at least had to point it out (and without him having pushed the issue any further than that), it was actually Weir who wasted the time of the team by taking the time out of her schedule to undercut and humiliate him in front of his people. In fact, there was no indication that if Weir has simply treated his opinion like a valid scientific consideration rather than the ravings of a coward that he'd have had a problem with it. Yet when he called her on it (admittedly when time was short, but not without having reason to be upset about the way she was acting which could actually be endangering lives) she was treated as being in the right.
*** Except... she didn't. She went to listen to the ideas being put out by the braintrust, and dismissed Kavanagh's idea - perhaps bluntly, but time was of the essence. Kavanagh then followed her, not to argue in favour of his idea, but to whine about how she'd bruised his ego, wasting valuable time in the process. He then tried to claim, when she said that the discussion was definitely over, that it wasn't, attempting to undercut ''her'' authority.
** Michael points out the considering the Atlantis expedition's treatment of not only him but anything that isn't human or is a threat, they are incredibly similar to the Wraith. The fact is, he's right. If the Atlantis expedition had been the bad guys, their behavior behaviour would have put them beyond the MoralEventHorizon.
27th Dec '17 2:30:19 PM NOYB
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** Sheppard and [=McKay=] are everyone's favorites with scenes that seems to back it up (the end of Irresistible for expamle).

to:

** Sheppard and [=McKay=] are everyone's favorites with scenes that seems to back it up (the end of Irresistible "Irresistible", for expamle).example, where McKay takes a herb that makes people enamored of its user, knowing full well that Sheppard is the only person on Atlantis that hasn't been inoculated against the {{Pheromones}}).



** The Sheppard-and-Ronon section of Sunday gets very date-y, especially when they're hanging out and drinking beers in Sheppard's quarters and Sheppard asks Ronon if he's seeing any girl. Or guy.

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** The Sheppard-and-Ronon section of Sunday "Sunday" gets very date-y, especially when they're hanging out and drinking beers in Sheppard's quarters and Sheppard asks Ronon if he's seeing any girl. Or girl or guy.
27th Dec '17 2:25:58 PM NOYB
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** This exchange from 5.15 'Remnants', as Richard Woolsey sees that a women he's been flirting with found his balcony hang-out spot:

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** This exchange from 5.15 'Remnants', as Richard Woolsey sees that a women woman he's been flirting with found his balcony hang-out spot:
7th Dec '17 8:56:00 PM smasll_lordvoice
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** From the season 2 episode "Critical Mass": [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WESoHaRkJSo "Beyond The Night"]]. Oh, and that IS [[TheCastShowoff Rachel Luttrell]].

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** From the season 2 episode "Critical Mass": [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WESoHaRkJSo "Beyond The Night"]]. Oh, and that IS [[TheCastShowoff really is]] Rachel Luttrell]].Luttrell singing.
22nd Aug '17 8:30:21 AM MasterHero
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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Several good characters as by Season 5 it basically became The Mckay and Sheppard Show.
** Teyla was unfortunately just used as eye-candy and extra muscle for much of the series and her complex background and links to actually growing up in Pegasus were never expanded on. Even her personal story arc with her pregnancy and Kanaan basically ended up being relegated to off-screen once she had the baby.
** Elizabeth's backstory was never developed, she had hardly any character-centric episodes and she didn't get to establish many relationships with other characters aside from Sheppard and Rodney. [[spoiler: Then they killed her off.]]
** Carson, who after an overjoyed fan reaction at him being promoted to a regular was [[spoiler: killed off at the end of Season 3. They did bring him back later but by then it felt like too little, too late.]]
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