History YMMV / StarTrektheOriginalSeries

1st May '16 2:10:32 AM CaptEquinox
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** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk [[{{Pornomancer}} snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face]] it wouldn't be that shocking.[[note]]Roddenberry wanted the show to have that ambiance, Kirk as his AuthorAvatar could [[{{Casanova}} have any woman he desired]].[[/note]] Not just in the way that every female member of the crew [[MaleGaze goes around in those miniskirts and is being sexually harassed all the time]], but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".

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** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk [[{{Pornomancer}} snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face]] it wouldn't be that shocking.[[note]]Roddenberry wanted the show to have that ambiance, Kirk as his AuthorAvatar could [[{{Casanova}} have any woman woman]] [[BoldlyComing he desired]].[[/note]] Not just in the way that every female member of the crew [[MaleGaze goes around in those miniskirts and is being sexually harassed all the time]], plus the alien babes in their [[TheissTitillationTheory skimpy outfits]], but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen crewmember is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".



*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry.[[note]]Third season producer Fred Freiberger was no slouch in the sexism department either; several female writers recall him summarizing the show as "tits in space."[[/note]] He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and [[Recap/StarTrekS3E24TurnaboutIntruder should never be allowed to run things]]. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.

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*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the almost-nude alien babes in skimpy costumes and microskirted female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry.[[note]]Third season producer Fred Freiberger was no slouch in the sexism department either; several female writers recall him summarizing the show as "tits in space."[[/note]] He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Word of Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and [[Recap/StarTrekS3E24TurnaboutIntruder should never be allowed to run things]]. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.
1st May '16 12:46:35 AM CaptEquinox
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*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and [[Recap/StarTrekS3E24TurnaboutIntruder should never be allowed to run things]]. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.

to:

*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. [[note]]Third season producer Fred Freiberger was no slouch in the sexism department either; several female writers recall him summarizing the show as "tits in space."[[/note]] He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and [[Recap/StarTrekS3E24TurnaboutIntruder should never be allowed to run things]]. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.
1st May '16 12:44:45 AM CaptEquinox
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** As the show went on, the missions just kept getting weirder and weirder. Prime examples include looking for Spock's brain, a showdown at the O.K. Corral and encounters with hippies, Chicago Gangsters, Native Americans, a modern day Roman Empire, [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazis]], Abraham Lincoln and even the Greek god Apollo. Though most fans point to Roddenberry stepping out of day-to-day involvement at the start of Season 3, some fans believe that the show was already running out of steam in the latter third or so of Season 2, and point to the departure of Gene L. Coon midway through that season as when things started going wrong.

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** As the show went on, the missions just kept getting weirder and weirder. Prime examples include looking for Spock's brain, a showdown at the O.K. Corral and encounters with hippies, Chicago Gangsters, Native Americans, a modern day Roman Empire, [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazis]], Abraham Lincoln and even the Greek god Apollo. Though most fans point to Roddenberry stepping out of day-to-day involvement at the start of Season 3, plus massive budget cuts, some fans believe that the show was already running out of steam in the latter third or so of Season 2, and point to the departure of Gene L. Coon midway through that season as when things started going wrong.
30th Apr '16 3:45:42 PM CaptEquinox
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*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and should never be allowed to run things. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.

to:

*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and [[Recap/StarTrekS3E24TurnaboutIntruder should never be allowed to run things.things]]. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.
30th Apr '16 3:32:28 PM CaptEquinox
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** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face it wouldn't be that shocking. Not just in the way that every female member of the crew goes around in those miniskirts and is being sexually harassed all the time, but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".

to:

** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk [[{{Pornomancer}} snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face face]] it wouldn't be that shocking. shocking.[[note]]Roddenberry wanted the show to have that ambiance, Kirk as his AuthorAvatar could [[{{Casanova}} have any woman he desired]].[[/note]] Not just in the way that every female member of the crew [[MaleGaze goes around in those miniskirts and is being sexually harassed all the time, time]], but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".
30th Apr '16 3:03:12 PM CaptEquinox
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*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and should never be allowed to run things.

to:

*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and should never be allowed to run things. The more progressive elements of the show came from Gene Coon, Justman and Dorothy Fontana.
30th Apr '16 8:58:39 AM CaptEquinox
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** Nimoy created much of Spock's backstory as a mixed-race person figuring out where and how he belongs. He [[http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/02/27/389589676/leonard-nimoys-advice-to-a-biracial-girl-in-1968 responded publicly and at length]] to a mixed-race girl who wrote a letter to Spock talking about being outcast by both black and white peers.

to:

** Nimoy created much of Spock's backstory as a mixed-race person figuring out where and how he belongs. He [[http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/02/27/389589676/leonard-nimoys-advice-to-a-biracial-girl-in-1968 [[https://www.buzzfeed.com/leonoraepstein/spocks-advice-to-a-teenage-girl-will-make-you-cry?utm_term=.cgmk0Xk8X#.xyvlZ5lM5 responded publicly and at length]] to a mixed-race girl who wrote a letter to Spock talking about being outcast by both black and white peers.



** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face it wouldn't be that shocking. Not just in the way that every female member of the crew is practically nude and being sexually harassed all the time, but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".

to:

** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face it wouldn't be that shocking. Not just in the way that every female member of the crew is practically nude goes around in those miniskirts and is being sexually harassed all the time, but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''".



** Nothing so bad as James Bond [[{{Film/Goldfinger}} pimp-handing a lesbian so hard it turns her straight]], but it does occasionally cross the line: Rand being molested by Kirk and Spock [[LooksLikeSheIsEnjoyingIt telling her to enjoy it]] is particularly disarming, adding nothing to the scene. This is the one thing that really bleeds over from the 60s. The fact that this show was considered a beacon of progressiveness shows just how backwards things were back then.

to:

*** Robert Justman and Herb Solow have revealed that the "for a woman" business, the alien babes in skimpy costumes and female crewmembers as sex toys was all Roddenberry. He saw women as brainless, decorative objects and (according to Nimoy) believed that all women were "cunts" who could not be trusted and should never be allowed to run things.
** Nothing so bad as James Bond [[{{Film/Goldfinger}} pimp-handing a lesbian so hard it turns her straight]], but it does occasionally cross the line: Rand being molested by Kirk Kirk, and Spock [[LooksLikeSheIsEnjoyingIt telling her to enjoy it]] she must have enjoyed it]], is particularly disarming, adding nothing to the scene. This is the one thing that really bleeds over from the 60s. The fact that this show was considered a beacon of progressiveness shows just how backwards things were back then.
30th Apr '16 8:49:34 AM CaptEquinox
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Added DiffLines:

** Nimoy created much of Spock's backstory as a mixed-race person figuring out where and how he belongs. He [[http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/02/27/389589676/leonard-nimoys-advice-to-a-biracial-girl-in-1968 responded publicly and at length]] to a mixed-race girl who wrote a letter to Spock talking about being outcast by both black and white peers.
23rd Apr '16 6:11:00 PM DrRomoray
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** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face it wouldn't be that shocking. Not just in the way that every female member of the crew is practically nude and being sexually harassed all the time, but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''". Also note that despite whatever Roddenberry's intentions were, they had to fly with the TV execs. This is why you have a female second officer in the pilot, but not in the actual series. The execs felt it wasn't believable.

to:

** It's definitely a series that needs to be viewed with an understanding of the historical context. Like, if Kirk snapped his fingers and had a yeoman sit on his face it wouldn't be that shocking. Not just in the way that every female member of the crew is practically nude and being sexually harassed all the time, but also the lighthearted "aw shucks" tone with which the show addresses it. There are so many moments when a female crewmen is complimented, followed by: "...for a ''[[BaitAndSwitchComment woman]]''". woman]]''".
***
Also note that despite whatever Roddenberry's intentions were, they had to fly with the TV execs. This is why you have a female second officer in the pilot, but not in the actual series. The execs felt it wasn't believable.



** When Creator/NeilDegrasseTyson was talking to Takei about how Uhura was an example of how progressive the show was, Takei remarked, "Please! Uhura was the secretary. She answered the phone..." (What Takei is referring to is the fact that [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchboard_operator#Women_as_switchboard_operators women were accepted as telephone switchboard operators.]])

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** When Creator/NeilDegrasseTyson was talking to Takei about how Uhura was an example of how progressive the show was, Takei remarked, "Please! Uhura was the secretary. She answered the phone..." (What Takei is referring to is the fact that [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchboard_operator#Women_as_switchboard_operators women were accepted as telephone switchboard operators.]]) The importance of Uhura is played up even today, despite the fact that Uhura was horribly under-utilised and shows like ''Series/ISpy'' and ''{{Series/Julia}}'' were doing a much better job of showcasing black characters.



* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: TheReveal in "The City on the Edge of Forever" that Edith ''has'' to be killed, else her pacifist movement will keep America out of World War II and result in the Nazis developing atomic power first and winning, ultimately sums up as one of these. "Pacifism is an ideal to aspire to, but reality is more cynical, and sometimes people must be prepared to fight." It's not necessarily a ''bad'' aesop, but it's certainly more cynical than you'd expect of a 60s show, and in rather stark contrast to the pretty strong "Pacifism = Good" message sent by earlier episodes. It can get worse when you consider the time the episode aired, and see it as a possible call for American intervention in Vietnam.\\\

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* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: FamilyUnfriendlyAesop:
** The show’s liberal politics are lauded, but its endorsement of Vietnam in A Private Little War and The Omega Glory is forgotten.
***
TheReveal in "The City on the Edge of Forever" that Edith ''has'' to Forever". Edith's peace movement not only should but '''must''' be killed, or else her pacifist movement Franklin Delano Roosevelt will keep America out of World War II and II, which would result in the Nazis developing atomic power first and winning, ultimately sums up as one of these.winning. "Pacifism is an ideal to aspire to, but reality is more cynical, and sometimes people must be prepared to fight." "\\\
It's not necessarily a ''bad'' aesop, but it's certainly more cynical than you'd expect of a 60s show, and in rather stark contrast to the pretty strong "Pacifism = Good" message sent by earlier episodes. It can get worse when you consider the time the episode aired, and see it as a possible call for American intervention in Vietnam.Southeast Asia.\\\
22nd Apr '16 8:50:54 PM Doug86
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*** Roddenberry was maneuvered into voicing this speculation by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath, who were working on the Shatner bio [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Shatner:_Where_No_Man Shatner: Where No Man]]. It was supposed to be a comparison of Kirk and Spock with AlexanderTheGreat and his second-in-command/lover Hephaistion. In the full quote Roddenberry admits the "lovers" idea had ''not'' occurred to him before the ladies suggested it. Of course, then he went on to create the Vulcan word "t'hy'la" specifically to describe Kirk and Spock's relationship, and proceeded to define it as "friend/brother/''lover''"...

to:

*** Roddenberry was maneuvered into voicing this speculation by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath, who were working on the Shatner bio [[http://fanlore.org/wiki/Shatner:_Where_No_Man Shatner: Where No Man]]. It was supposed to be a comparison of Kirk and Spock with AlexanderTheGreat UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat and his second-in-command/lover Hephaistion. In the full quote Roddenberry admits the "lovers" idea had ''not'' occurred to him before the ladies suggested it. Of course, then he went on to create the Vulcan word "t'hy'la" specifically to describe Kirk and Spock's relationship, and proceeded to define it as "friend/brother/''lover''"...
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