History YMMV / StarTrekIntoDarkness

19th Jul '16 12:47:54 AM Silverblade2
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* FunnyAneurysmMoment: Chekov being told to put on a RedShirt being met with a look of pure terror was a cute little MythologyGag about their tendancy to die. Unfortunately, the curse caught up with him on June 19th, 2016, when Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident.
16th Jul '16 8:35:52 PM Premonition45
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Added DiffLines:

** Website/SFDebris proposed what he believed would have been a better ending: [[spoiler:Khan gets away with all the Augments, Spock mindmelds with Kirk, and Kirk is left in stasis. Then, the next film would be searching for Khan and his new army, Kirk will become a phantom in Spock's mind acting as both an adviser and a nuisance, while the entire Enterprise crew must combine their wits, skills, and generally everything they've got in order to defeat Khan's army and bring him back alive to save their captain.]]
14th Jul '16 9:40:50 PM Tavernier
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* StrawmanHasAPoint: The opening scene of the movie raised an interesting point of contention regarding the Prime Directive. Kirk is criticized for flaunting it and lying about it, but to properly observe the Prime Directive would have meant to ''let the entire planet die'' from its volcanic eruption. In fact, most of the problems the Enterprise crew faces occur while trying to observe the Directive to the best of their ability and still save lives. For all intents and purposes, Kirk deserves a moment of ArsonMurderAndLifeSaving... but in a ridiculous aversion, Pike goes after Kirk for not merely observing the planet's last moments like he was supposed to and for daring to interfere with a planet's positively sacred internal development. Literally everything wrong with the Prime Directive is on display in the opening and yet Kirk is being raked over the coals. What is ''wrong'' with Pike that he doesn't realize this?

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* StrawmanHasAPoint: The opening scene of the movie raised an interesting point of contention regarding the Prime Directive. Kirk is criticized for flaunting it and lying about it, but to properly observe the Prime Directive would have meant to ''let the entire planet die'' from its volcanic eruption. In fact, most of the problems the Enterprise crew faces occur while as a result of trying to observe the Directive to the best of their ability and still save lives. For all intents and purposes, Kirk deserves a moment of ArsonMurderAndLifeSaving... but in a ridiculous aversion, Pike goes after Kirk for not merely observing the planet's last moments like he was supposed to and but for daring to interfere with a planet's positively ''positively sacred internal development.development''. Literally everything wrong with the Prime Directive is on display in the opening and yet Kirk is being raked over the coals. What is ''wrong'' with Pike that he doesn't realize this?
14th Jul '16 9:36:42 PM Tavernier
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* FauxSymbolism: In a movie all about the cycle of violence and the difference between justice and revenge, the super-ship [[spoiler:which Khan takes control of]] is named the USS ''Vengeance'', for crying out loud. If Harrison had anything to do with the actual ''naming'', this would probably put Admiral Marcus into TooDumbToLive.

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* %%* FauxSymbolism: In a movie all about the cycle of violence and the difference between justice and revenge, the super-ship [[spoiler:which Khan takes control of]] is named the USS ''Vengeance'', for crying out loud. If Harrison had anything to do with the actual ''naming'', this would probably put Admiral Marcus into TooDumbToLive.TooDumbToLive.
%% Ham-handed symbolism is not faux symbolism.


Added DiffLines:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: The opening scene of the movie raised an interesting point of contention regarding the Prime Directive. Kirk is criticized for flaunting it and lying about it, but to properly observe the Prime Directive would have meant to ''let the entire planet die'' from its volcanic eruption. In fact, most of the problems the Enterprise crew faces occur while trying to observe the Directive to the best of their ability and still save lives. For all intents and purposes, Kirk deserves a moment of ArsonMurderAndLifeSaving... but in a ridiculous aversion, Pike goes after Kirk for not merely observing the planet's last moments like he was supposed to and for daring to interfere with a planet's positively sacred internal development. Literally everything wrong with the Prime Directive is on display in the opening and yet Kirk is being raked over the coals. What is ''wrong'' with Pike that he doesn't realize this?
12th Jul '16 11:14:18 AM Infection
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** Despite its writers' {{Anvilicious}} attempts to decry militarization and aggression, quite a few people who saw the movie ended up rooting for [[spoiler:[[WellIntentionedExtremist Alexander Marcus]]]] and his goal in militarizing Starfleet for a war against the Klingon Empire. Seemingly, [[spoiler:Marcus']] only detraction is that he went about it in the manner of a standard GeneralRipper, to the point that he brought [[spoiler:[[BigBad Khan]], an infamous genetically engineered warlord that nearly took over the Earth long ago, out of [[HumanPopsicle cold storage]] to utilize as a slave ([[TooDumbToLive thinking he could actually control Khan]])]], as well as attempted to purposely start said war with the Klingons (using the oblivious crew of the ''Enterprise'' to do so no less) as opposed to letting it happen naturally.
** [[spoiler:Even Marcus' actor Creator/PeterWeller [[WordOfStPaul roots for his character, saying he disliked how the public viewed him as a villain and has this to say about him]]:]]

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** Despite its writers' {{Anvilicious}} attempts to decry militarization and aggression, quite a few people who saw the movie ended up rooting for [[spoiler:[[WellIntentionedExtremist Alexander Marcus]]]] and his goal in militarizing Starfleet for a war against the Klingon Empire. Seemingly, [[spoiler:Marcus']] only detraction is that he went about it in the manner of a standard GeneralRipper, to the point that he brought [[spoiler:[[BigBad Khan]], an infamous genetically engineered warlord that nearly took over the Earth long ago, out of [[HumanPopsicle cold storage]] to utilize as a slave ([[TooDumbToLive thinking he could actually control Khan]])]], as well as attempted to purposely start said war with the Klingons (using the oblivious crew of the ''Enterprise'' to do so no less) as opposed to letting it happen naturally.
** [[spoiler:Even Marcus'
naturally.Even [[spoiler:Marcus']] actor Creator/PeterWeller [[spoiler:Creator/PeterWeller]] [[WordOfStPaul roots for his character, saying he disliked how the public viewed him as a villain and has this to say about him]]:]]him]].
9th Jul '16 3:09:29 PM MCanter89
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: [[spoiler: Admiral Marcus]] as a WellIntentionedExtremist. He figured that the exploration-focused Starfleet would not be able to win a war against the Klingons, a war he thought was inevitable (and may or may not actually be). He was only doing what he thought was necessary to ensure the Federation's survival. It's not even really that much of an AlternativeCharacterInterpretation - the guy just ends up tapping the MoralEventHorizon when [[spoiler: he opts to try and murder Kirk and the entire crew merely for having Khan in their custody, along with other acts]].

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: [[spoiler: Admiral [[spoiler:Admiral Marcus]] as a WellIntentionedExtremist. He figured that the exploration-focused Starfleet would not be able to win a war against the Klingons, a war he thought was inevitable (and may or may not actually be). He was only doing what he thought was necessary to ensure the Federation's survival. It's not even really that much of an AlternativeCharacterInterpretation - the guy just ends up tapping the MoralEventHorizon when [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he opts to try and murder Kirk and the entire crew merely for having Khan in their custody, along with other acts]].



** Though several fans complained about [[spoiler: James Kirk]]'s death scene being a blatant copy of [[spoiler: Spock's death in ''[[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan The Wrath of Khan]]'']], many of the same fans also applauded the filmmakers since the scene was basically a public apology to the fandom for [[spoiler: Kirk's [[DroppedABridgeOnHim infamously underwhelming death]] in ''[[Film/StarTrekGenerations Generations]]'']].
* BaseBreaker: James T. Kirk. While most will agree he had good character development over the course of the two movies, many more will debate whether said development is enough to actually make him a credible Captain. [[spoiler: By the conclusion, a lot were arguing that it would've made more sense for ''Spock'' to be Captain instead.]]

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** Though several fans complained about [[spoiler: James [[spoiler:James Kirk]]'s death scene being a blatant copy of [[spoiler: Spock's death in ''[[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan The Wrath of Khan]]'']], many of the same fans also applauded the filmmakers since the scene was basically a public apology to the fandom for [[spoiler: Kirk's [[spoiler:Kirk's [[DroppedABridgeOnHim infamously underwhelming death]] in ''[[Film/StarTrekGenerations Generations]]'']].
* BaseBreaker: James T. Kirk. While most will agree he had good character development over the course of the two movies, many more will debate whether said development is enough to actually make him a credible Captain. [[spoiler: By [[spoiler:By the conclusion, a lot were arguing that it would've made more sense for ''Spock'' to be Captain instead.]]



** Was Khan's casting worth it to see Creator/BenedictCumberbatch's acting talent, or was it pointless whitewashing of a famous person of color role that wasted the opportunity [[spoiler:for a Sikh actor to have gotten a really big break playing a classic villain]]?[[note]] Despite the original actor ''still'' not being the same race as Khan's entire name would suggest.[[/note]] Are the detractors justified in their accusations of racism, or misguided and counterproductive political correctness or are people just overreacting?
** Is the film essentially a remake of previous Star Trek films or merely an homage?

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** Was Khan's casting worth it to see Creator/BenedictCumberbatch's acting talent, or was it pointless whitewashing of a famous person of color role that wasted the opportunity [[spoiler:for a Sikh actor to have gotten a really big break playing a classic villain]]?[[note]] Despite villain]]?[[note]]Despite the original actor ''still'' not being the same race as Khan's entire name would suggest.[[/note]] Are the detractors justified in their accusations of racism, or misguided and counterproductive political correctness or are people just overreacting?
** Is the film essentially a remake of previous Star Trek ''Star Trek'' films or merely an homage?



* ContestedSequel: There's [[BrokenBase a lot of debate]] amongst the fandom over this film borrowing elements from the older Star Trek films, [[spoiler: Khan being the main villain and now white, and Kirk's [[DisneyDeath 5-minute death]]]].

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* ContestedSequel: There's [[BrokenBase a lot of debate]] amongst the fandom over this film borrowing elements from the older Star Trek films, [[spoiler: Khan [[spoiler:Khan being the main villain and now white, and Kirk's [[DisneyDeath 5-minute death]]]].death]].]]



* EnsembleDarkhorse: The [[http://i.imgur.com/PhtOMun.jpg Random Cool Hair Red Shirt Girl]], whose name isn't even given. But she has cool hair. The ongoing IDW comic series has retconned her to be this universe's version of [[http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Zahra Yeoman Zahra]]... [[RaceLift somehow]].

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: The [[http://i.imgur.com/PhtOMun.jpg Random Cool Hair Red Shirt Girl]], whose name isn't even given. But she has cool hair. The ongoing IDW comic series has retconned her to be this universe's version of [[http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Zahra Yeoman Zahra]]... Zahra]]… [[RaceLift somehow]].



** [[spoiler:Admiral Marcus']] jet black CoolStarship, the ''Vengeance.''

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** [[spoiler:Admiral Marcus']] jet black CoolStarship, the ''Vengeance.''''Vengeance''.



* FauxSymbolism: In a movie all about the cycle of violence and the difference between justice and revenge, the super-ship [[spoiler: which Khan takes control of]] is named the USS ''Vengeance'' for crying out loud. If Harrison had anything to do with the actual ''naming'', this would probably put Admiral Marcus into TooDumbToLive.

to:

* FauxSymbolism: In a movie all about the cycle of violence and the difference between justice and revenge, the super-ship [[spoiler: which [[spoiler:which Khan takes control of]] is named the USS ''Vengeance'' ''Vengeance'', for crying out loud. If Harrison had anything to do with the actual ''naming'', this would probably put Admiral Marcus into TooDumbToLive.



* HoYay: Kirk and Spock. No surprise, since their friendship has been fueling shippers for years. But Spock looks genuinely distraught seeing Harrison hurt Kirk, and flat-out goes on a pre-Surak Vulcan style RoaringRampageOfRevenge when [[spoiler: Kirk dies]].
* ItWasHisSled: Though it also overlaps with IKnewIt, it has quickly become common knowledge [[spoiler: that John Harrison is Khan.]]

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* HoYay: Kirk and Spock. No surprise, since their friendship has been fueling shippers for years. But Spock looks genuinely distraught seeing Harrison hurt Kirk, and flat-out goes on a pre-Surak Vulcan style RoaringRampageOfRevenge when [[spoiler: Kirk [[spoiler:Kirk dies]].
* ItWasHisSled: Though it also overlaps with IKnewIt, it has quickly become common knowledge [[spoiler: that [[spoiler:that John Harrison is Khan.]]



** The damaged and fiery ''Enterprise'' falling to Earth in posters and trailers garnered responses along the lines of "Oh great, [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock they're blowing up the]] ''[[Film/StarTrekGenerations Enterprise ... again]]''." [[spoiler: However, ''The Enterprise'' is able to get back on its feet before it crash lands. The ship that does crash, however, was the ''USS Vengeance'', piloted by Khan.]]
** [[spoiler: Khan being the main antagonist]].
** [[spoiler: The role reversal of Kirk and Spock during the climax.]]
* LateArrivalSpoiler: There's a comic coming out in October regarding Harrison's past called [[spoiler: ''Star Trek: KHAN'']]. Pretty blatant example, eh?

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** The damaged and fiery ''Enterprise'' falling to Earth in posters and trailers garnered responses along the lines of "Oh great, [[Film/StarTrekIIITheSearchForSpock they're blowing up the]] ''[[Film/StarTrekGenerations Enterprise ... Enterprise… again]]''." [[spoiler: However, ''The Enterprise'' [[spoiler:However, the ''Enterprise'' is able to get back on its feet before it crash lands. The ship that does crash, however, was the ''USS Vengeance'', USS ''Vengeance'', piloted by Khan.]]
** [[spoiler: Khan [[spoiler:Khan being the main antagonist]].
** [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The role reversal of Kirk and Spock during the climax.]]
* LateArrivalSpoiler: There's a comic coming out in October regarding Harrison's past called [[spoiler: ''Star [[spoiler:''Star Trek: KHAN'']]. Pretty blatant example, eh?



* NeverLiveItDown: Poor J. J. Abrams gets {{misblamed}} for lying about [[spoiler:Harrison being Khan]] when it was really Paramount that enforced. That he absolutely '''''hated''''' lying about the unnecessary plot twist was conveniently ignored in favor of labeling him as a constantly LyingCreator. It got so bad that people mistakenly used the debacle as an excuse to presume that Abrams was lying about '''anything and everything''' leading up to ''Franchise/StarWars: Film/TheForceAwakens'', leading to a whole lot of FanWank. A few years later, Damon Lindeloff admitted that they'd vastly underestimated how quickly fans could multisource theories in this day and age, and they should have just come clean when everyone figured it out.

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* NeverLiveItDown: Poor J. J. Abrams Creator/JJAbrams gets {{misblamed}} for lying about [[spoiler:Harrison being Khan]] when it was really Paramount that enforced. That he absolutely '''''hated''''' lying about the unnecessary plot twist was conveniently ignored in favor of labeling him as a constantly LyingCreator. It got so bad that people mistakenly used the debacle as an excuse to presume that Abrams was lying about '''anything and everything''' leading up to ''Franchise/StarWars: Film/TheForceAwakens'', leading to a whole lot of FanWank. A few years later, Damon Lindeloff admitted that they'd vastly underestimated how quickly fans could multisource theories in this day and age, and they should have just come clean when everyone figured it out.



** [[spoiler:[[Creator/LeonardNimoy Leonard Nimoy's]]]] one scene is very short and a bit of a PlotHole, but most audiences loved it so much they hardly even noticed. [[TearJerker Sadly,]] it would turn out to be his last - [[ActorExistenceFailure ever.]]

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** [[spoiler:[[Creator/LeonardNimoy Leonard Nimoy's]]]] [[spoiler:Creator/LeonardNimoy's]] one scene is very short and a bit of a PlotHole, but most audiences loved it so much they hardly even noticed. [[TearJerker Sadly,]] Sadly]], it would turn out to be his last - [[ActorExistenceFailure ever.]]ever]].



* StoicWoobie: Dr. Carol Marcus discovers that [[spoiler: her father is at the head of a conspiracy to start a galactic scale war, is transporter-kidnapped by him so she can't stand in the way of his attempt to murder the entire crew of a Federation ship (which she is forced to watch helplessly from his side), has her leg broken by Khan, and then watches him brutally murder her father.]] She holds up remarkably well given what she goes through.

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* StoicWoobie: Dr. Carol Marcus discovers that [[spoiler: her [[spoiler:her father is at the head of a conspiracy to start a galactic scale war, is transporter-kidnapped by him so she can't stand in the way of his attempt to murder the entire crew of a Federation ship (which she is forced to watch helplessly from his side), has her leg broken by Khan, and then watches him brutally murder her father.]] She holds up remarkably well given what she goes through.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: There were some fans who thought that John Harrison [[spoiler: turning out to be Khan]] was ''way'' [[{{EntertaininglyWrong}} too obvious]], and theorised that he was in fact the Klingon captain, Koloth - a human-looking Klingon from the original series that was meant to be Kirk's EvilCounterpart / WorthyOpponent. One can even take this a step further and watch the film with that in mind, and the story is essentially the same and it actually works in it's favor.

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* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: There were some fans who thought that John Harrison [[spoiler: turning [[spoiler:turning out to be Khan]] was ''way'' [[{{EntertaininglyWrong}} [[EntertaininglyWrong too obvious]], and theorised that he was in fact the Klingon captain, Koloth - a human-looking Klingon from the original series that was meant to be Kirk's EvilCounterpart / WorthyOpponent.EvilCounterpart[=/=]WorthyOpponent. One can even take this a step further and watch the film with that in mind, and the story is essentially the same and it actually works in it's favor.



** Given the character arcs of both Kirk and Spock, a surprising number of fans were actually shocked that [[spoiler: Spock didn't up remaining Captain of the Enterprise]]. This ended up becoming a major criticism with those who felt that [[spoiler: Kirk didn't necessarily ''deserve'' to be Captain]].

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** Given the character arcs of both Kirk and Spock, a surprising number of fans were actually shocked that [[spoiler: Spock [[spoiler:Spock didn't up remaining Captain of the Enterprise]]. This ended up becoming a major criticism with those who felt that [[spoiler: Kirk [[spoiler:Kirk didn't necessarily ''deserve'' to be Captain]].



* UnfortunateImplications: Having Creator/BenedictCumberbatch play someone with a specifically non-white ethnicity ([[spoiler: the originally dark-skinned Khan]]). [[http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/star-trek-whiteness/ This article]] goes into detail about the impact this decision has on ''Franchise/StarTrek'' and in the context of whitewashing. Ironically, Orci wanted to avoid other unfortunate implications - see ValuesDissonance below.

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* UnfortunateImplications: Having Creator/BenedictCumberbatch play someone with a specifically non-white ethnicity ([[spoiler: the ([[spoiler:the originally dark-skinned Khan]]). [[http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/star-trek-whiteness/ This article]] goes into detail about the impact this decision has on ''Franchise/StarTrek'' and in the context of whitewashing. Ironically, Orci wanted to avoid other unfortunate implications - see ValuesDissonance below.



* ValuesDissonance: [[spoiler: Khan's RaceLift was because of this. Had Khan -- whose name might suggest that he is Muslim to people who have little knowledge of Sikhs -- been cast by an Indian or Middle-Eastern actor, "John Harrison's" overtly terrorist actions may have led to further UnfortunateImplications with the character.]]

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* ValuesDissonance: [[spoiler: Khan's [[spoiler:Khan's RaceLift was because of this. Had Khan -- whose name might suggest that he is Muslim to people who have little knowledge of Sikhs -- been cast by an Indian or Middle-Eastern actor, "John Harrison's" overtly terrorist actions may have led to further UnfortunateImplications with the character.]]



** [[spoiler: Kirk falsified his Captain's Log and failed to inform his by-the-book second officer that he had done so or what he said instead. Oddly enough he seems convinced Spock stabbed him in the back by not guessing this.]]

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** [[spoiler: Kirk [[spoiler:Kirk falsified his Captain's Log and failed to inform his by-the-book second officer that he had done so or what he said instead. Oddly enough he seems convinced Spock stabbed him in the back by not guessing this.]]
26th Jun '16 12:23:18 AM Silverblade2
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* HarsherInHindsight:
** Creator/LeonardNimoy's final appearance in the franchise centers around Spock Prime being reminded of his own death.
** Chekov being told to put on a Red Shirt, and the look of terror on his face in an allusion to the Red Shirt's fatality rate. That joke sure doesn't seem very funny after Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident shortly before the release of the next film, ''Star Trek Beyond''.
19th Jun '16 6:12:33 PM Kitch
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** Checkov being told to put on a Red Shirt, and the look of terror on his face in an allusion to the Red Shirt's fatality rate. That joke sure doesn't seem very funny after Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident shortly before the release of the next film, ''Star Trek Beyond''.

to:

** Checkov Chekov being told to put on a Red Shirt, and the look of terror on his face in an allusion to the Red Shirt's fatality rate. That joke sure doesn't seem very funny after Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident shortly before the release of the next film, ''Star Trek Beyond''.
19th Jun '16 6:12:07 PM Kitch
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** Checkov being told to put on a Red Shirt, and the look of terror on his face in an allusion to the Red Shirt's fatality rate. Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident shortly before the release of the next film, ''Star Trek Beyond''.

to:

** Checkov being told to put on a Red Shirt, and the look of terror on his face in an allusion to the Red Shirt's fatality rate. That joke sure doesn't seem very funny after Creator/AntonYelchin died in a car accident shortly before the release of the next film, ''Star Trek Beyond''.
19th Jun '16 2:38:25 PM KingClark
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* HarsherInHindsight: Leonard Nimoy's final appearance in the franchise centers around Spock Prime being reminded of his own death.

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* HarsherInHindsight: Leonard Nimoy's HarsherInHindsight:
** Creator/LeonardNimoy's
final appearance in the franchise centers around Spock Prime being reminded of his own death.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.StarTrekIntoDarkness