History YMMV / SeventhSea

4th Sep '17 10:51:25 AM HalcyonDayz
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* ItsHardSoItSucks: ...A common complaint about First Edition. For what was meant to be a game about heroic swashbucklers doing heroic things, a lot of players felt the game was really stingy with the character points, really encouraged a KillerGameMaster mindset in the GM and had an odd fixation on the out-of-place cosmic horror aspect. The default roll difficulties meant that a character who wanted any chance of accomplishing basic tasks had to really specialize in them, meaning being crippled in all other areas, and being a Sorcerer or Swordsman (which many considered the main appeal of the game) cost so many points it practically forced you to buy a Hubris - which the books flat out instructed the GM to treat as a carte blanche to screw with the player. It didn't help that the only [=NPCs=] given stats tended to be major players in the metaplot, with levels of competence players couldn't even imagine getting - creating the impression that, at best, all they could hope for was to play second fiddle for [=GMPCs=] or be slaughtered by villains the books seemed more enamored with than themselves. Whether [[UnpleasableFanbase the fanbase was just unappeasable]], the developers went too far trying to fix the problem, or everything was fine and the complainers were a minority is still up to debate.

to:

* ItsHardSoItSucks: ...A common complaint about First Edition. For what was meant to be a game about heroic swashbucklers doing heroic things, a lot of players felt the game was really stingy with the character points, really encouraged a KillerGameMaster mindset in the GM and had an odd fixation on the out-of-place cosmic horror aspect. The default roll difficulties meant that a character who wanted any chance of accomplishing basic tasks had to really specialize in them, meaning being crippled in all other areas, and being a Sorcerer or Swordsman (which many considered the main appeal of the game) cost so many points it practically forced you to buy a Hubris - which the books flat out instructed the GM to treat as a carte blanche to screw with the player. It didn't help that the only [=NPCs=] {{Non Player Character}}s given stats tended to be major players in the metaplot, with levels of competence players couldn't even imagine getting - creating the impression that, at best, all they could hope for was to play second fiddle for [=GMPCs=] or be slaughtered by villains the books seemed more enamored with than themselves. Whether [[UnpleasableFanbase the fanbase was just unappeasable]], the developers went too far trying to fix the problem, or everything was fine and the complainers were a minority is still up to debate.



* PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad: Some fans believe that the attempt to make the 2nd edition setting LighterAndSofter has either gone too far, or was done too unsubtly in order to make the game look "progressive". Some of the more reasonable complaints are that many major NPCs had their sexes, genders or sexualities shifted with extremely little fanfare or attention for seemingly no other purpose than to check a minority box (in fact, some of those changes have been done so lazily that ''poor editing'' reveals how little thought went into them. Reis, for example, is still listed as male in the core book but is turned into a woman in The Pirate Nations), and that, ironically, by making the situation of members of disenfranchised groups so good in Terra (e.g. there are more powerful rulers and famous pirates who are women than who are men) the challenges faced by historical members of said groups are being disrespectfully washed away. As one fan put it in the comments to the game's Kickstarter page, "A Thean equivalent of Julie D'Aubigny, one of history's greatest bona fide swashbucklers, wouldn't be nearly as interesting or inspiring as she was in real life because it doesn't take such incredible courage to be a powerful woman, a bisexual or a crossdresser when all those things are the norm."

to:

* PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad: Some fans believe that the attempt to make the 2nd edition setting LighterAndSofter has either gone too far, or was done too unsubtly in order to make the game look "progressive". Some of the more reasonable complaints are that many major NPCs {{Non Player Character}}s had their sexes, genders or sexualities shifted with extremely little fanfare or attention for seemingly no other purpose than to check a minority box (in fact, some of those changes have been done so lazily that ''poor editing'' reveals how little thought went into them. Reis, for example, is still listed as male in the core book but is turned into a woman in The Pirate Nations), and that, ironically, by making the situation of members of disenfranchised groups so good in Terra (e.g. there are more powerful rulers and famous pirates who are women than who are men) the challenges faced by historical members of said groups are being disrespectfully washed away. As one fan put it in the comments to the game's Kickstarter page, "A Thean equivalent of Julie D'Aubigny, one of history's greatest bona fide swashbucklers, wouldn't be nearly as interesting or inspiring as she was in real life because it doesn't take such incredible courage to be a powerful woman, a bisexual or a crossdresser when all those things are the norm."
31st Aug '17 6:16:40 AM InsomniacWeasel
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* LighterAndSofter: The 2nd edition's setting is this compared both to real history and the first edition. The game's developers made a conscious decision to make their fantasy version of the 17th century largely free of many of the prejudices and forms of oppression which dominated Europe (if not the world) back in the day, both in order to include the largest amount of Hero concepts and because they didn't want their idealistic, swashbuckling vision marred by such ugliness. Places where men and women are not seen as equal, LGBT persons are not openly accepted or members of racial or religious minorities are despised are ''the exception'', not the rule. While slavery and genocide do exist, they are always committed by capital V Villains and are usually stopped sooner rather than later by capital H Heroes. Compared to the first edition, the 2nd edition setting is also considerably lighter on seemingly omnipotent [[VillainSue villain sues]], unstoppable monsters and cosmic horror elements.



* MoralEventHorizon: Built into the rules, a PC who hits -30 reputation points becomes a villain (unless the character's been framed; only "earned" negative reputation points count), and the GM takes away their character sheet. Although a Machiavelli-style Advantage will put it off to -40 or -50, depending on how strongly the ends justify the means.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Built into the rules, a PC who hits -30 reputation points becomes a villain (unless the character's been framed; only "earned" negative reputation points count), and the GM takes away their character sheet. Although a Machiavelli-style Advantage will put it off to -40 or -50, depending on how strongly the ends justify the means.means.
* PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad: Some fans believe that the attempt to make the 2nd edition setting LighterAndSofter has either gone too far, or was done too unsubtly in order to make the game look "progressive". Some of the more reasonable complaints are that many major NPCs had their sexes, genders or sexualities shifted with extremely little fanfare or attention for seemingly no other purpose than to check a minority box (in fact, some of those changes have been done so lazily that ''poor editing'' reveals how little thought went into them. Reis, for example, is still listed as male in the core book but is turned into a woman in The Pirate Nations), and that, ironically, by making the situation of members of disenfranchised groups so good in Terra (e.g. there are more powerful rulers and famous pirates who are women than who are men) the challenges faced by historical members of said groups are being disrespectfully washed away. As one fan put it in the comments to the game's Kickstarter page, "A Thean equivalent of Julie D'Aubigny, one of history's greatest bona fide swashbucklers, wouldn't be nearly as interesting or inspiring as she was in real life because it doesn't take such incredible courage to be a powerful woman, a bisexual or a crossdresser when all those things are the norm."
25th Aug '17 9:25:02 AM narm00
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* ItsHardSoItSucks: ...A common complaint about First Edition. For what was meant to be a game about heroic swashbucklers doing heroic things, a lot of players felt the game was really stingy with the character points, really encouraged a KillerGameMaster mindset in the GM and had an odd fixation on the out-of-place cosmic horror aspect. The default roll difficulties meant that a character who wanted any chance of accomplishing basic tasks had to really specialize in them, meaning being crippled in all other areas, and being a Sorcerer or Swordsman (which many considered the main appeal of the game) costed so many points it practically forced you to buy a Hubris - which the books flat out instructed the GM to treat as a carte blanche to screw with the player. It didn't help that the only NPCs given stats tended to be major players in the metaplot, with levels of competence players couldn't even imagine getting - creating the impression that, at best, all they could hope for was to play second fiddle for GMPCs or be slaughtered by villains the books seemed more enamored with than themselves. Whether [[UnappeasableFanbse the fanbase is just unappeasable]], the developers went too far trying to fix the problem, or everything's fine and the complainers are a minority is still up to debate.

to:

* ItsHardSoItSucks: ...A common complaint about First Edition. For what was meant to be a game about heroic swashbucklers doing heroic things, a lot of players felt the game was really stingy with the character points, really encouraged a KillerGameMaster mindset in the GM and had an odd fixation on the out-of-place cosmic horror aspect. The default roll difficulties meant that a character who wanted any chance of accomplishing basic tasks had to really specialize in them, meaning being crippled in all other areas, and being a Sorcerer or Swordsman (which many considered the main appeal of the game) costed cost so many points it practically forced you to buy a Hubris - which the books flat out instructed the GM to treat as a carte blanche to screw with the player. It didn't help that the only NPCs [=NPCs=] given stats tended to be major players in the metaplot, with levels of competence players couldn't even imagine getting - creating the impression that, at best, all they could hope for was to play second fiddle for GMPCs [=GMPCs=] or be slaughtered by villains the books seemed more enamored with than themselves. Whether [[UnappeasableFanbse [[UnpleasableFanbase the fanbase is was just unappeasable]], the developers went too far trying to fix the problem, or everything's everything was fine and the complainers are were a minority is still up to debate.
23rd Aug '17 10:50:45 AM InsomniacWeasel
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Added DiffLines:

* ItsHardSoItSucks: ...A common complaint about First Edition. For what was meant to be a game about heroic swashbucklers doing heroic things, a lot of players felt the game was really stingy with the character points, really encouraged a KillerGameMaster mindset in the GM and had an odd fixation on the out-of-place cosmic horror aspect. The default roll difficulties meant that a character who wanted any chance of accomplishing basic tasks had to really specialize in them, meaning being crippled in all other areas, and being a Sorcerer or Swordsman (which many considered the main appeal of the game) costed so many points it practically forced you to buy a Hubris - which the books flat out instructed the GM to treat as a carte blanche to screw with the player. It didn't help that the only NPCs given stats tended to be major players in the metaplot, with levels of competence players couldn't even imagine getting - creating the impression that, at best, all they could hope for was to play second fiddle for GMPCs or be slaughtered by villains the books seemed more enamored with than themselves. Whether [[UnappeasableFanbse the fanbase is just unappeasable]], the developers went too far trying to fix the problem, or everything's fine and the complainers are a minority is still up to debate.
19th Jul '17 8:22:39 AM TheDoodAbides
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* ItsEasySoItSucks: A common complaint about Second Edition. A "success" requires one set of 10 (dice totals added up to 10) to accomplish any task. If a player rolls 3 dice, they only have a 15% chance of failure. On average, a player will roll 4 dice, and a min-maxer can position themselves to roll a dozen. The GM can set "consequences" that need to be bought off, but a player can declare they will persuade the Emperor of Montaigne to make them his heir- and odds are it will happen.

to:

* ItsEasySoItSucks: A common complaint about Second Edition. A "success" requires one set of 10 (dice totals added up to 10) to accomplish any task. If a player rolls 3 dice, they only have a 15% chance of failure. On average, a player will roll 4 dice, and a min-maxer can position themselves to roll a dozen. The GM can set "consequences" that need to be bought off, but a player can simply declare they will roll to persuade the Emperor of Montaigne to make them his heir- and odds are that it will happen.



* LevelGrinding: Second Edition's level up system has been described as this. There is no XP in the system. Instead, players write individual stories with a designated reward for themselves at the end. Depending on where the campaign takes place and how much content the GM is able to cram into a session, players can find themselves finishing a campaign and only having made it halfway to their level up.

to:

* LevelGrinding: Second Edition's level up system has been described as this. There is no XP in the system. Instead, players write individual stories with a designated reward for themselves at the end. Depending on where the campaign takes place and how much content the GM is able to cram into a session, players can find themselves finishing a campaign and only having made it halfway to their level up.
19th Jul '17 8:12:06 AM TheDoodAbides
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Added DiffLines:

* LevelGrinding: Second Edition's level up system has been described as this. There is no XP in the system. Instead, players write individual stories with a designated reward for themselves at the end. Depending on where the campaign takes place and how much content the GM is able to cram into a session, players can find themselves finishing a campaign and only having made it halfway to their level up.
19th Jul '17 8:04:54 AM TheDoodAbides
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* ItsEasySoItSucks: A common complaint with Second Edition. A "success" requires one set of 10 (dice totals added up to 10) to accomplish any task. If a player rolls 3 dice, they only have a 15% chance of failure. On average, a player will roll 4 dice, and a min-maxer can position themselves to roll a dozen.

to:

* ItsEasySoItSucks: A common complaint with about Second Edition. A "success" requires one set of 10 (dice totals added up to 10) to accomplish any task. If a player rolls 3 dice, they only have a 15% chance of failure. On average, a player will roll 4 dice, and a min-maxer can position themselves to roll a dozen. The GM can set "consequences" that need to be bought off, but a player can declare they will persuade the Emperor of Montaigne to make them his heir- and odds are it will happen.


Added DiffLines:

** Brute squads are treated as an inconvenience at best. A player can easily destroy a full strength squad within one round, maybe two.
19th Jul '17 7:59:07 AM TheDoodAbides
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Added DiffLines:

* ItsEasySoItSucks: A common complaint with Second Edition. A "success" requires one set of 10 (dice totals added up to 10) to accomplish any task. If a player rolls 3 dice, they only have a 15% chance of failure. On average, a player will roll 4 dice, and a min-maxer can position themselves to roll a dozen.
** All wounds are healed immediately after combat ends.
5th Apr '16 12:56:26 PM RolandX
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* MoralEventHorizon: Built into the rules, a PC who hits -30 reputation points becomes a villain, and the GM takes away their character sheet. Although a Machiavelli-style Advantage will put it off to -40 or -50, depending on how strongly the ends justify the means.

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: Built into the rules, a PC who hits -30 reputation points becomes a villain, villain (unless the character's been framed; only "earned" negative reputation points count), and the GM takes away their character sheet. Although a Machiavelli-style Advantage will put it off to -40 or -50, depending on how strongly the ends justify the means.
2nd Jun '15 7:08:00 AM Paireon
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* MagnificentBastard: Many villains, given the setting, though the one who pulls it off with the most aplomb is likely Giovanni Villanova, the most powerful Prince of Voddace; he's explicitly a {{sociopath}} who thoroughly enjoys [[ looking and acting the villain he is]], but he's so ''good'' at what he does that people still can't help but to get entangled in any number of his sinister plots. Oh, and he's [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking one of the setting's greatest swordsmen]] [[spoiler:as well as a member of NOM]].

to:

* MagnificentBastard: Many villains, given the setting, though the one who pulls it off with the most aplomb is likely Giovanni Villanova, the most powerful Prince of Voddace; he's explicitly a {{sociopath}} who thoroughly enjoys [[ looking [[ObviouslyEvil looking]] and acting [[CardCarryingVillain acting]] the villain he is]], is, but he's so ''good'' at what he does that people still can't help but to get entangled in any number of his sinister plots. Oh, and he's [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking one of the setting's greatest swordsmen]] [[spoiler:as well as a member of NOM]].NOM's Council of Thirteen]].
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