History YMMV / RevolutionaryGirlUtena

16th Apr '17 4:12:03 AM Phobosong
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ValuesDissonance: Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes, especially not in Japan).
** That first point arguably ends up working in the series' favor, as the uneasiness many Western viewers feel as a result of Anthy's skin color and status as property/DamselInDistress goes hand in hand with the feeling that something is ''just not right'' about Anthy and Utena's situation, particularly Anthy's extreme passivity and Utena's savior complex towards her. So the ValuesDissonance, while likely unintentional, ends up reinforcing the series' themes.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: ValuesDissonance:
**
Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes, especially not in Japan).
** *** That first point arguably ends up working in the series' favor, as the uneasiness many Western viewers feel as a result of Anthy's skin color and status as property/DamselInDistress goes hand in hand with the feeling that something is ''just not right'' about Anthy and Utena's situation, particularly Anthy's extreme passivity and Utena's savior complex towards her. So the ValuesDissonance, while likely unintentional, ends up reinforcing the series' themes.themes.
** Chigusa's backstory involving her rage at Masaomi choosing the girly Koto over her, and her subsequent hatred of passive, feminine girls, from the video game makes more sense when one considers how strict Japanese gender roles are (especially since her story took place in the past, when they were even stricter). Her dominant personality and masculine interests are seen as "undesirable" and something to pressure girls out of in Japan, and her height, which of course she can't help, would be seen as ''extremely'' intimidating. Chigusa was not just lashing out that a guy chose another girl over her, but lashing out because it seemed everything about her being undesirable was confirmed.
9th Apr '17 11:51:05 PM Golondrina
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The different versions themselves have been claimed to be alternate interpretations of ''Utena'', with the manga as Chiho Saito's vision, the movie as Kunihiko Ikuhara's vision, and the TV series as a compromise between the two; there's also the manga adaptation of the movie, which is Saito's own spin on it, and the light novels, which were written by someone else entirely (specifically, [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichir%C5%8D_%C5%8Ckouchi Ichirou Ookouchi]]). Characterisation varies wildly between all these versions, to the point where the differences between portrayals of any given character can be quite jarring.

to:

** The different versions themselves have been claimed to be alternate interpretations of ''Utena'', with the manga as Chiho Saito's vision, the movie as Kunihiko Ikuhara's vision, and the TV series as a compromise between the two; there's also the manga adaptation of the movie, which is Saito's own spin on it, and the light novels, which were written by someone else entirely (specifically, [[http://en.[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichir%C5%8D_%C5%8Ckouchi org/wiki/Ichiro_Okouchi Ichirou Ookouchi]]). Characterisation varies wildly between all these versions, to the point where the differences between portrayals of any given character can be quite jarring.
11th Feb '17 5:09:03 PM Phobosong
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* RonTheDeathEater: Shiori Takatsuki gets this a lot. While even her fans would agree that she is a ''heavily'' flawed person, her haters often make her out to be a CompleteMonster, some even calling her worse than ''Akio''. The fanbase, especially Juri and Ruka fans, often ignore that Shiori isn't just a monster who torments Juri ForTheEvulz, and that Juri contributes just as much to their broken relationship as she does. In fact, Shiori actually tries to make amends when she returns, only for ''Juri'' to refuse to listen out of bitterness. She also gets called a monster for what she did as a Black Rose Duelist (ignoring that she was no different than Kozue and Wakaba) and some even say she ''deserved'' being humiliated by Ruka.
22nd Jan '17 8:49:17 PM Angeldeb82
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ViewerGenderConfusion: Yes, Miki is a guy, regardless of his [[CrossdressingVoices incredibly feminine]] [[Creator/AyaHisakawa voice]].

to:

* ViewerGenderConfusion: Yes, Miki is a guy, regardless of his [[CrossdressingVoices [[CrossDressingVoices incredibly feminine]] [[Creator/AyaHisakawa voice]].
22nd Jan '17 8:48:38 PM Angeldeb82
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** On first viewing Touga comes across as a deeply manipulative, even petty figure with little to no redeeming qualities, whose behavior makes the audience feel sorry for ''Saionji'', the guy who literally slaps women around when he doesn't get his way. He's one of the only major student characters we never really see from "inside" his head, which can make him fall oddly flat. But taking in Word of God's claim that his fate in the movie [[spoiler: Where he is sexually abused by his stepfather, not that he drowns]] was also supposed to carry into the TV series (and perhaps wasn't due to Touga's VA being absent for most of a whole arc, giving him less time for development) not only makes a lot of his behaviors make more sense - manipulative to the extreme, a hatred/distrust/outright refusal to believe in friendship, and over-sexuality (a common warning sign in children who have been sexually abused) makes a second watching deeply upsetting, particularly when he's around Akio. He seems to be under the impression he's in control, but we already know that Akio is playing him like a fiddle, and likely all the easier due to his prior abuse. And just try to listen to his line about a relationship between step-siblings being more "romantic" while remembering what his step-father did to him. Brrrr.
** And just to prove once again how flexible the fourth wall is in ''Utena'', the Akio that wants to keep Anthy in the academy's world in the movie [[spoiler:is Anthy's own AlternativeCharacterInterpretation (of sorts) of the real guy that died ages ago. Something similar seems to be the case with Touga; compare his scenes with Utena to his scenes with Shiori, for example.]]

to:

** On first viewing Touga comes across as a deeply manipulative, even petty figure with little to no redeeming qualities, whose behavior makes the audience feel sorry for ''Saionji'', the guy who literally slaps women around when he doesn't get his way. He's one of the only major student characters we never really see from "inside" his head, which can make him fall oddly flat. But taking in Word of God's claim that his fate in the movie [[spoiler: Where where he is sexually abused by his stepfather, not that he drowns]] was also supposed to carry into the TV series (and perhaps wasn't due to Touga's VA being absent for most of a whole arc, giving him less time for development) not only makes a lot of his behaviors make more sense - manipulative to the extreme, a hatred/distrust/outright refusal to believe in friendship, and over-sexuality (a common warning sign in children who have been sexually abused) makes a second watching deeply upsetting, particularly when he's around Akio. He seems to be under the impression he's in control, but we already know that Akio is playing him like a fiddle, and likely all the easier due to his prior abuse. And just try to listen to his line about a relationship between step-siblings being more "romantic" while remembering what his step-father did to him. Brrrr.
** And just to prove once again how flexible the fourth wall is in ''Utena'', the Akio that wants to keep Anthy in the academy's world in the movie [[spoiler:is Anthy's own AlternativeCharacterInterpretation (of sorts) of the real guy that died ages ago. Something similar seems to be the case with Touga; compare his scenes with Utena to his scenes with Shiori, for example.]]example]].
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: ''Many'' of the dueling themes, plus a good chunk of the movie soundtrack.



** Anthy, Anthy, ''Anthy''... see AlternativeCharacterInterpretation above for just some of the details. There's '''''no''''' middle ground on a character as complex as she is, specially on [[spoiler: her relationship with Akio]] and [[spoiler: her stabbing Utena at the end]]. Is she the ultimate example of TheWoobie who [[spoiler: is broken beyond belief after a millenia of pain and abuse]] and therefore is not responsible for anything either good or bad that she does, or an evil ManipulativeBitch who played everyone as fools as either [[spoiler: her revenge for said millenia of pain and abuse]], or as her way to [[spoiler: grasp power for herself after having been powerless for so long, and torture everyone (Akio included)]]? Either way, don't ask: the mere mention of Anthy can send the whole fandom into hategasms or lovegasms.

to:

** Anthy, Anthy, ''Anthy''... see AlternativeCharacterInterpretation above for just some of the details. There's '''''no''''' middle ground on a character as complex as she is, specially on [[spoiler: her relationship with Akio]] and [[spoiler: her stabbing Utena at the end]]. Is she the ultimate example of TheWoobie who [[spoiler: is broken beyond belief after a millenia of pain and abuse]] and therefore is not responsible for anything either good or bad that she does, or an evil ManipulativeBitch {{Manipulative B|astard}}itch who played everyone as fools as either [[spoiler: her revenge for said millenia millennia of pain and abuse]], or as her way to [[spoiler: grasp power for herself after having been powerless for so long, and torture everyone (Akio included)]]? Either way, don't ask: the mere mention of Anthy can send the whole fandom into hategasms or lovegasms.



** Akio, Akio, ''Akio''. A flawless MagnificentBastard who controls everyone and everything via [[spoiler: Anthy]] so he can re-shape the world to his liking? An absolute monster who toys with everyone solely for his own gratification and power? A TragicHero who got way too broken in the past and reacted to the trauma by becoming a massive ass even to the persons he should protect? A pathetic manchild who has no intention of changing or taking responsibility and just wants to feel powerful by lording over a bunch of insecure teenagers? [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Can it even be ALL of the above?]]

to:

** Akio, Akio, ''Akio''. A flawless MagnificentBastard who controls everyone and everything via [[spoiler: Anthy]] so he can re-shape the world to his liking? An absolute monster who toys with everyone solely for his own gratification and power? A TragicHero who got way too broken in the past and reacted to the trauma by becoming a massive ass even to the persons he should protect? A pathetic manchild who has no intention of changing or taking responsibility and just wants to feel powerful by lording over a bunch of insecure teenagers? [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Can it even be ALL of the above?]]



* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Many'' of the duelling themes, plus a good chunk of the movie soundtrack.



** In ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'', Maya had [[IgnoredEnamoredUnderling crush]] on her superior Ritsuko, [[spoiler:who was tragically involved with ''her'' superior, Gendou]]. In RGU, her [[Creator/KotonoMitsuishi colleague]] [[spoiler:[[InvertedTrope inverts]] this dynamic―she has a crush on ''her'' inferior, who is tragically involved with ''her'' superior]].

to:

** In ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'', Maya had [[IgnoredEnamoredUnderling crush]] on her superior Ritsuko, [[spoiler:who was tragically involved with ''her'' superior, Gendou]]. In RGU, her [[Creator/KotonoMitsuishi colleague]] [[spoiler:[[InvertedTrope inverts]] [[spoiler:{{invert|edTrope}}s this dynamic―she has a crush on ''her'' inferior, who is tragically involved with ''her'' superior]].



* HoYay: [[HoYay/RevolutionaryGirlUtena Has its own page for it]] -- which isn't surprising, given that ''Utena'' is an EveryoneIsBi series.



** Say that you do NOT necessarily think ''Utena'' is the most important, groundbreaking, perfect, complex and '''''unique''''' {{shoujo}} series ever. Prepare to be slain by the ''Utena'' fandom.

to:

** Say that you do NOT necessarily think ''Utena'' is the most important, groundbreaking, perfect, complex and '''''unique''''' {{shoujo}} {{shoujo|Demographic}} series ever. Prepare to be slain by the ''Utena'' fandom.



** Really, nearly ''everyone'' can fit here to one degree or another, barring [[MagnificentBastard Akio]] and those characters who are already TheWoobie (or IronWoobie, in the case of Utena herself), although some of them place ''heavy'' emphasis on the "jerkass" part. 90% of the cast is violently off their rocker. [[LoveHurts Good luck]] [[DarkAndTroubledPast holding it]] [[UnwittingPawn against them]].

to:

** Really, nearly ''everyone'' can fit here to one degree or another, barring [[MagnificentBastard Akio]] and those characters who are already TheWoobie (or IronWoobie, in the case of Utena herself), although some of them place ''heavy'' emphasis on the "jerkass" part. 90% of the cast is violently off their rocker. [[LoveHurts Good luck]] [[DarkAndTroubledPast holding it]] [[UnwittingPawn against them]].them.]]



* LesYay and HoYay: [[HoYay/RevolutionaryGirlUtena Has its own page for it]] -- which isn't surprising, given that ''Utena'' is an EveryoneIsBi series.



* RealWomenNeverWearDresses: Both in the fandom and deconstructed in the series.

to:

* RealWomenNeverWearDresses: RealWomenDontWearDresses: Both in the fandom and deconstructed in the series.



** Shiori in the movie has even fewer redeeming qualities than in the series, being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful--with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri, but it's not as if Juri could control that]].) It's very satisfying near the end when [[spoiler:Anthy causes Shiori-Car to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].

to:

** Shiori in the movie has even fewer redeeming qualities than in the series, being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful--with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri, but it's not as if Juri could control that]].) that.]]) It's very satisfying near the end when [[spoiler:Anthy causes Shiori-Car to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].



* [[HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...

to:

* [[HeReallyCanAct [[SugarWiki/HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. yes.]] Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. really.]] Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] {{Plucky|Girl}} ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] {{Wham Episode}}s and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...Sniffle...]]



* UglyCute: Chuchu. [[EverythingsBetterWithMonkeys A monkey]] with BigOlEyebrows, [[BlushSticker Blush Stickers]], can only [[PokemonSpeak say "chu"]], comes randomly doing PluckyComicRelief and it's the AuthorAvatar.

to:

* UglyCute: Chuchu. [[EverythingsBetterWithMonkeys A monkey]] with BigOlEyebrows, [[BlushSticker Blush Stickers]], {{Blush Sticker}}s, can only [[PokemonSpeak say "chu"]], comes randomly doing PluckyComicRelief and it's the AuthorAvatar.



* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The movie in general is gorgeous, but this trope is why everyone remembers the dancing scene (besides the yuri).

to:

* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The movie in general is gorgeous, but this trope is why everyone remembers the dancing scene (besides the yuri).
7th Jan '17 7:57:18 AM SeptimusHeap
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* FreudWasRight: Lots. Take Akio's car for example. Or his tower, or his projector, or... let's just say Akio provides the majority of this.
29th Nov '16 5:15:24 PM crashkey
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** And if you say you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''Utena'', you shall be marked for a painful death.

to:

** And if you say you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''Utena'', you shall be marked for a painful death. It's also probably best not to ever ''mention'' ''Anime/YuriKumaArashi'', which was a huge BaseBreaker for Ikuhara's fans in general.
22nd Nov '16 7:21:57 PM Phobosong
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** To an extent, Juri Arisugawa. Fans are more than happy to make her out to be a helpless victim of Shiori, ignoring how she hurts Shiori by expecting her to read her mind, not really trying to understand her feelings, and holding an over-idealized image of her. Miki, another character who has an over idealized view of someone and lashes out when they don't fit that view, gets a lot more flack for it than Juri does. Not to mention she slapped Anthy to the ground after Utena left the room and attacked Utena by aggressively trying to take her Rose Seal after acting friendly towards her. None of this stops fans from calling Juri "innocent" and attacking anyone who points out her flaws.
19th Nov '16 8:25:37 PM ImperialMajestyXO
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** We also dare you to ever insinuate you don't ship Utena/Anthy romantically. The Utena/Anthy rabid fans will tear you alive and accuse you of being a homophobe, regardless of your stance on LGBT rights on RealLife. On the other hand, referring to ''Utena'' as a yuri series can be controversial in itself, depending on which corner of the fandom you're looking at.

to:

** We also dare you to ever insinuate you don't ship Utena/Anthy romantically. The Utena/Anthy rabid fans will tear you alive and accuse you of being a homophobe, regardless of your stance on LGBT rights on in RealLife. On the other hand, referring to ''Utena'' as a yuri series can be controversial in itself, depending on which corner of the fandom you're looking at.



* ValuesDissonance: Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes).

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes).stereotypes, especially not in Japan).
10th Nov '16 11:46:35 PM CLT009
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* [[HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...
This list shows the last 10 events of 228. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.RevolutionaryGirlUtena