History YMMV / RevolutionaryGirlUtena

22nd Jan '17 8:49:17 PM Angeldeb82
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* ViewerGenderConfusion: Yes, Miki is a guy, regardless of his [[CrossdressingVoices incredibly feminine]] [[Creator/AyaHisakawa voice]].

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* ViewerGenderConfusion: Yes, Miki is a guy, regardless of his [[CrossdressingVoices [[CrossDressingVoices incredibly feminine]] [[Creator/AyaHisakawa voice]].
22nd Jan '17 8:48:38 PM Angeldeb82
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** On first viewing Touga comes across as a deeply manipulative, even petty figure with little to no redeeming qualities, whose behavior makes the audience feel sorry for ''Saionji'', the guy who literally slaps women around when he doesn't get his way. He's one of the only major student characters we never really see from "inside" his head, which can make him fall oddly flat. But taking in Word of God's claim that his fate in the movie [[spoiler: Where he is sexually abused by his stepfather, not that he drowns]] was also supposed to carry into the TV series (and perhaps wasn't due to Touga's VA being absent for most of a whole arc, giving him less time for development) not only makes a lot of his behaviors make more sense - manipulative to the extreme, a hatred/distrust/outright refusal to believe in friendship, and over-sexuality (a common warning sign in children who have been sexually abused) makes a second watching deeply upsetting, particularly when he's around Akio. He seems to be under the impression he's in control, but we already know that Akio is playing him like a fiddle, and likely all the easier due to his prior abuse. And just try to listen to his line about a relationship between step-siblings being more "romantic" while remembering what his step-father did to him. Brrrr.
** And just to prove once again how flexible the fourth wall is in ''Utena'', the Akio that wants to keep Anthy in the academy's world in the movie [[spoiler:is Anthy's own AlternativeCharacterInterpretation (of sorts) of the real guy that died ages ago. Something similar seems to be the case with Touga; compare his scenes with Utena to his scenes with Shiori, for example.]]

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** On first viewing Touga comes across as a deeply manipulative, even petty figure with little to no redeeming qualities, whose behavior makes the audience feel sorry for ''Saionji'', the guy who literally slaps women around when he doesn't get his way. He's one of the only major student characters we never really see from "inside" his head, which can make him fall oddly flat. But taking in Word of God's claim that his fate in the movie [[spoiler: Where where he is sexually abused by his stepfather, not that he drowns]] was also supposed to carry into the TV series (and perhaps wasn't due to Touga's VA being absent for most of a whole arc, giving him less time for development) not only makes a lot of his behaviors make more sense - manipulative to the extreme, a hatred/distrust/outright refusal to believe in friendship, and over-sexuality (a common warning sign in children who have been sexually abused) makes a second watching deeply upsetting, particularly when he's around Akio. He seems to be under the impression he's in control, but we already know that Akio is playing him like a fiddle, and likely all the easier due to his prior abuse. And just try to listen to his line about a relationship between step-siblings being more "romantic" while remembering what his step-father did to him. Brrrr.
** And just to prove once again how flexible the fourth wall is in ''Utena'', the Akio that wants to keep Anthy in the academy's world in the movie [[spoiler:is Anthy's own AlternativeCharacterInterpretation (of sorts) of the real guy that died ages ago. Something similar seems to be the case with Touga; compare his scenes with Utena to his scenes with Shiori, for example.]]example]].
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: ''Many'' of the dueling themes, plus a good chunk of the movie soundtrack.



** Anthy, Anthy, ''Anthy''... see AlternativeCharacterInterpretation above for just some of the details. There's '''''no''''' middle ground on a character as complex as she is, specially on [[spoiler: her relationship with Akio]] and [[spoiler: her stabbing Utena at the end]]. Is she the ultimate example of TheWoobie who [[spoiler: is broken beyond belief after a millenia of pain and abuse]] and therefore is not responsible for anything either good or bad that she does, or an evil ManipulativeBitch who played everyone as fools as either [[spoiler: her revenge for said millenia of pain and abuse]], or as her way to [[spoiler: grasp power for herself after having been powerless for so long, and torture everyone (Akio included)]]? Either way, don't ask: the mere mention of Anthy can send the whole fandom into hategasms or lovegasms.

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** Anthy, Anthy, ''Anthy''... see AlternativeCharacterInterpretation above for just some of the details. There's '''''no''''' middle ground on a character as complex as she is, specially on [[spoiler: her relationship with Akio]] and [[spoiler: her stabbing Utena at the end]]. Is she the ultimate example of TheWoobie who [[spoiler: is broken beyond belief after a millenia of pain and abuse]] and therefore is not responsible for anything either good or bad that she does, or an evil ManipulativeBitch {{Manipulative B|astard}}itch who played everyone as fools as either [[spoiler: her revenge for said millenia millennia of pain and abuse]], or as her way to [[spoiler: grasp power for herself after having been powerless for so long, and torture everyone (Akio included)]]? Either way, don't ask: the mere mention of Anthy can send the whole fandom into hategasms or lovegasms.



** Akio, Akio, ''Akio''. A flawless MagnificentBastard who controls everyone and everything via [[spoiler: Anthy]] so he can re-shape the world to his liking? An absolute monster who toys with everyone solely for his own gratification and power? A TragicHero who got way too broken in the past and reacted to the trauma by becoming a massive ass even to the persons he should protect? A pathetic manchild who has no intention of changing or taking responsibility and just wants to feel powerful by lording over a bunch of insecure teenagers? [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Can it even be ALL of the above?]]

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** Akio, Akio, ''Akio''. A flawless MagnificentBastard who controls everyone and everything via [[spoiler: Anthy]] so he can re-shape the world to his liking? An absolute monster who toys with everyone solely for his own gratification and power? A TragicHero who got way too broken in the past and reacted to the trauma by becoming a massive ass even to the persons he should protect? A pathetic manchild who has no intention of changing or taking responsibility and just wants to feel powerful by lording over a bunch of insecure teenagers? [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Can it even be ALL of the above?]]



* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Many'' of the duelling themes, plus a good chunk of the movie soundtrack.



** In ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'', Maya had [[IgnoredEnamoredUnderling crush]] on her superior Ritsuko, [[spoiler:who was tragically involved with ''her'' superior, Gendou]]. In RGU, her [[Creator/KotonoMitsuishi colleague]] [[spoiler:[[InvertedTrope inverts]] this dynamic―she has a crush on ''her'' inferior, who is tragically involved with ''her'' superior]].

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** In ''Anime/NeonGenesisEvangelion'', Maya had [[IgnoredEnamoredUnderling crush]] on her superior Ritsuko, [[spoiler:who was tragically involved with ''her'' superior, Gendou]]. In RGU, her [[Creator/KotonoMitsuishi colleague]] [[spoiler:[[InvertedTrope inverts]] [[spoiler:{{invert|edTrope}}s this dynamic―she has a crush on ''her'' inferior, who is tragically involved with ''her'' superior]].



* HoYay: [[HoYay/RevolutionaryGirlUtena Has its own page for it]] -- which isn't surprising, given that ''Utena'' is an EveryoneIsBi series.



** Say that you do NOT necessarily think ''Utena'' is the most important, groundbreaking, perfect, complex and '''''unique''''' {{shoujo}} series ever. Prepare to be slain by the ''Utena'' fandom.

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** Say that you do NOT necessarily think ''Utena'' is the most important, groundbreaking, perfect, complex and '''''unique''''' {{shoujo}} {{shoujo|Demographic}} series ever. Prepare to be slain by the ''Utena'' fandom.



** Really, nearly ''everyone'' can fit here to one degree or another, barring [[MagnificentBastard Akio]] and those characters who are already TheWoobie (or IronWoobie, in the case of Utena herself), although some of them place ''heavy'' emphasis on the "jerkass" part. 90% of the cast is violently off their rocker. [[LoveHurts Good luck]] [[DarkAndTroubledPast holding it]] [[UnwittingPawn against them]].

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** Really, nearly ''everyone'' can fit here to one degree or another, barring [[MagnificentBastard Akio]] and those characters who are already TheWoobie (or IronWoobie, in the case of Utena herself), although some of them place ''heavy'' emphasis on the "jerkass" part. 90% of the cast is violently off their rocker. [[LoveHurts Good luck]] [[DarkAndTroubledPast holding it]] [[UnwittingPawn against them]].them.]]



* LesYay and HoYay: [[HoYay/RevolutionaryGirlUtena Has its own page for it]] -- which isn't surprising, given that ''Utena'' is an EveryoneIsBi series.



* RealWomenNeverWearDresses: Both in the fandom and deconstructed in the series.

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* RealWomenNeverWearDresses: RealWomenDontWearDresses: Both in the fandom and deconstructed in the series.



** Shiori in the movie has even fewer redeeming qualities than in the series, being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful--with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri, but it's not as if Juri could control that]].) It's very satisfying near the end when [[spoiler:Anthy causes Shiori-Car to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].

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** Shiori in the movie has even fewer redeeming qualities than in the series, being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful--with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri, but it's not as if Juri could control that]].) that.]]) It's very satisfying near the end when [[spoiler:Anthy causes Shiori-Car to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].



* [[HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...

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* [[HeReallyCanAct [[SugarWiki/HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. yes.]] Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. really.]] Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] {{Plucky|Girl}} ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] {{Wham Episode}}s and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...Sniffle...]]



* UglyCute: Chuchu. [[EverythingsBetterWithMonkeys A monkey]] with BigOlEyebrows, [[BlushSticker Blush Stickers]], can only [[PokemonSpeak say "chu"]], comes randomly doing PluckyComicRelief and it's the AuthorAvatar.

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* UglyCute: Chuchu. [[EverythingsBetterWithMonkeys A monkey]] with BigOlEyebrows, [[BlushSticker Blush Stickers]], {{Blush Sticker}}s, can only [[PokemonSpeak say "chu"]], comes randomly doing PluckyComicRelief and it's the AuthorAvatar.



* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The movie in general is gorgeous, but this trope is why everyone remembers the dancing scene (besides the yuri).

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* VisualEffectsOfAwesome: SugarWiki/VisualEffectsOfAwesome: The movie in general is gorgeous, but this trope is why everyone remembers the dancing scene (besides the yuri).
7th Jan '17 7:57:18 AM SeptimusHeap
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* FreudWasRight: Lots. Take Akio's car for example. Or his tower, or his projector, or... let's just say Akio provides the majority of this.
29th Nov '16 5:15:24 PM crashkey
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** And if you say you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''Utena'', you shall be marked for a painful death.

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** And if you say you like ''Anime/MawaruPenguindrum'' better than ''Utena'', you shall be marked for a painful death. It's also probably best not to ever ''mention'' ''Anime/YuriKumaArashi'', which was a huge BaseBreaker for Ikuhara's fans in general.
22nd Nov '16 7:21:57 PM Phobosong
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Added DiffLines:

** To an extent, Juri Arisugawa. Fans are more than happy to make her out to be a helpless victim of Shiori, ignoring how she hurts Shiori by expecting her to read her mind, not really trying to understand her feelings, and holding an over-idealized image of her. Miki, another character who has an over idealized view of someone and lashes out when they don't fit that view, gets a lot more flack for it than Juri does. Not to mention she slapped Anthy to the ground after Utena left the room and attacked Utena by aggressively trying to take her Rose Seal after acting friendly towards her. None of this stops fans from calling Juri "innocent" and attacking anyone who points out her flaws.
19th Nov '16 8:25:37 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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** We also dare you to ever insinuate you don't ship Utena/Anthy romantically. The Utena/Anthy rabid fans will tear you alive and accuse you of being a homophobe, regardless of your stance on LGBT rights on RealLife. On the other hand, referring to ''Utena'' as a yuri series can be controversial in itself, depending on which corner of the fandom you're looking at.

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** We also dare you to ever insinuate you don't ship Utena/Anthy romantically. The Utena/Anthy rabid fans will tear you alive and accuse you of being a homophobe, regardless of your stance on LGBT rights on in RealLife. On the other hand, referring to ''Utena'' as a yuri series can be controversial in itself, depending on which corner of the fandom you're looking at.



* ValuesDissonance: Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes).

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* ValuesDissonance: Anthy hits this hard in America, where a dark-skinned person being treated as property by light-skinned people brings up some uncomfortable cultural memories that Japan doesn't have (and where dark skin color typically indicates that someone is Indian, for whom these aren't stereotypes).stereotypes, especially not in Japan).
10th Nov '16 11:46:35 PM CLT009
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Added DiffLines:

* [[HeReallyCanAct She Really Can Act]]: Creator/RachaelLillis is known to most fans for voicing [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Misty and Jessie]]. Fun and memorable characters? [[FieryRedhead Oh]] [[IneffectualSympatheticVillain yes]]. Nuanced? [[FlatCharacter Not really]]. Likewise, Utena's [[PluckyGirl Plucky]] ActionGirl character didn't offer much dramatic potential, and maintains a light and upbeat voice... until one of the [[WhamEpisode Wham Episodes]] and ''especially'' the GrandFinale where she '''knocks it out of the park'''. [[TearJerker Sniffle]]...
31st Oct '16 3:42:56 PM GlitteringFlowers
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** Also, for those who think that being a prince is "the bestest thing ever" and being a princess is "liek totally ewww"? Let us remind you of ''who'' incarnates the concept of a prince even better than Utena: [[spoiler: Prince Dios... alias '''Akio Ohtori'''.]] Being a Prince doesn't automatically make anyone better!
** Related to the above point: many fans who idealize the "princes" in the series miss the point that '''the entire concept of "prince"''' is just as heavily deconstructed and as the entire concept of "princess", as well as shown to be incredibly problematic, and that even the way Utena herself plays the prince role is very flawed [[spoiler:in that she was doing it to bolster her own ego, without any real consideration for ''her "damsel" Anthy's'' feelings.]] Even more meaningfully, [[spoiler: she eventually [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone comes to realize her mistake]] and makes up for it via ''actually'' helping Anthy and giving her back her hope, instead of just whiteknighting for her]].

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** Also, for those who The fandom seems to think that being a prince is "the bestest thing ever" and being a princess is "liek totally ewww"? Let us remind you of ewww". But ''who'' incarnates the concept of a prince even better than Utena: Utena? [[spoiler: Prince Dios... alias '''Akio Ohtori'''.]] Being This means that being a Prince doesn't automatically make anyone better!
** Related to the above point: many fans who idealize the "princes" in the series miss the point that '''the entire concept of "prince"''' "prince" is just as heavily deconstructed and as the entire concept of "princess", as well as "princess"''', with '''''both''''' being shown to be as incredibly problematic, problematic in several ways, and that even ''even the way Utena herself plays the prince role is very flawed [[spoiler:in that flawed'' because [[spoiler: [[WhiteKnight she was doing it it]] [[ItsAllAboutMe to bolster her own ego, ego]], without any real consideration for ''her "damsel" Anthy's'' feelings.]] Even more meaningfully, [[spoiler: she eventually [[MyGodWhatHaveIDone comes to realize her mistake]] and makes up for it via ''actually'' helping Anthy and giving her back her hope, instead of just whiteknighting for her]].



** It's not just the haters; it's her fans too. Some fans, like the characters Miki or Utena until almost the end, see her as a classic DamselInDistress archetype for them to rescue/defend on forums and blogs in order to boost their own egos, often '''refusing''' to see that she is actually [[spoiler: the very incarnation of how victims of abuse are ''human people'', and thus liable to lash out at the world and other people instead of just being perpetually sweet and innocent.]] Some of them have been spotted throwing massive fits when reminded that canon!Anthy isn't some helpless doll who never does anything wrong.

to:

** It's not just the haters; it's her fans too. Some fans, like the characters Miki or Utena until almost the end, see her as a classic DamselInDistress archetype for them to rescue/defend on forums and blogs in order to boost their own egos, often '''refusing''' to see that she is actually [[spoiler: the very incarnation of how victims of abuse ''[[HumansAreFlawed are ''human people'', human people]]'', and thus liable to lash out at the world and other people instead of just being perpetually sweet and innocent.]] Some of them have been spotted throwing massive fits when reminded that canon!Anthy isn't '''''isn't''''' some helpless victim doll who never does anything wrong.



** Strictly defined gender roles are crap. If you believe you can do something, don't let societal norms stop you. Also, you don't have to be imprisoned by your family; if they bring you down and you can't help them, well, better save yourself.

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** Strictly defined gender roles are crap. If you Those who believe you they can do something, don't something should not let societal norms stop you. Also, you don't have to be imprisoned by your family; if they bring you down and you can't help them, well, better save yourself.
23rd Sep '16 7:52:42 AM urutapu
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** Shiori in the movie has even less redeeming qualities being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri but it's not as if Juri could control that]]) It's also satisfying near the end [[spoiler: when after she turns into a car, Anthy causes her to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].

to:

** Shiori in the movie has even less fewer redeeming qualities than in the series, being even more manipulative, petty and spiteful with spiteful--with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Her boyfriend died when saving Juri Juri, but it's not as if Juri could control that]]) that]].) It's also very satisfying near the end [[spoiler: when after she turns into a car, Anthy [[spoiler:Anthy causes her Shiori-Car to crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].



** Manga!Juri has absolutely no fans thanks to being so shallow and immature compared to her beloved series counterpart, to say nothing of the AdaptationalSexuality issues that surround her.
* SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped: Strictly defined gender roles are crap. If you believe you can do something, don't let societal norms stop you. Also, you don't have to be imprisoned by your family; if they bring you down and you can't help them, well, better save yourself.

to:

** Manga!Juri has absolutely no fans thanks to being so shallow and immature compared to her beloved series counterpart, to say nothing of the AdaptationalSexuality issues that surround her.
* SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped: SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped:
**
Strictly defined gender roles are crap. If you believe you can do something, don't let societal norms stop you. Also, you don't have to be imprisoned by your family; if they bring you down and you can't help them, well, better save yourself.
22nd Sep '16 8:50:36 AM cpslck
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** Shiori in the movie has even less redeeming qualities being incredibly manipulative, petty and spiteful with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Sure her bf died when saving Juri but it's not like it's Juri's fault]])) It's also satisfying near the end [[spoiler: when after she turns into a car, Anthy causes her to spin out of control, crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].

to:

** Shiori in the movie has even less redeeming qualities being incredibly even more manipulative, petty and spiteful with much less reason. ([[spoiler: Sure her bf Her boyfriend died when saving Juri but it's not like it's Juri's fault]])) as if Juri could control that]]) It's also satisfying near the end [[spoiler: when after she turns into a car, Anthy causes her to spin out of control, crash and explode while she's in the middle of EvilGloating]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.RevolutionaryGirlUtena