History YMMV / ProjectM

24th Dec '16 1:41:31 AM Amagicalbadger
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*** As of 3.6 Beta, they were nerfed (Fox much more so than Falco).

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*** As of 3.6 Beta, In the final update, they were nerfed (Fox much more so than Falco).
24th Dec '16 1:35:36 AM Amagicalbadger
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** It's also consequence of how the team approached making more characters viable. Some ''Melee'' players dislike that the overall design of the game is, compared to ''Melee'', much more contrived (specifically in buffing many characters in non-standard ways to compete with Melee's high tier characters), which ''arguably'' made the game less about precise spacing and more about so-called moveset "gimmicks"[[note]]such as the abundance of effective projectiles[[/note]] and "auto-combos"[[note]]loosely defined as combos that are reliable within generous criteria, a concept not typically emphasized in ''Smash Bros.''[[/note]]. On the other side, one could make the case that it's unfair to hate the newly-viable characters for basically just being different from the few high tier ''Melee'' characters[[note]]as opposed to the entire ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' rosters[[/note]], that [[{{Hypocrite}} some of the ''Melee''-viable characters ''also'' have non-universal mechanics and guaranteed combos]], and that the 3.5 update of ''Project M'' actually toned down the over-the-top aspects of many of the characters. It's highly subjective.

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** It's also consequence of how the team approached making more characters viable. Some ''Melee'' players dislike that the overall design of the game is, compared to ''Melee'', much more contrived (specifically in buffing many characters in non-standard ways to compete with Melee's high tier characters), which ''arguably'' made the game less about precise spacing and more about so-called moveset "gimmicks"[[note]]such as the abundance of effective projectiles[[/note]] and "auto-combos"[[note]]loosely defined as combos that are reliable within generous criteria, a concept not typically emphasized in ''Smash Bros.''[[/note]]. On the other side, one could make the case that it's unfair to hate the newly-viable characters for basically just being different from the few high tier ''Melee'' characters[[note]]as opposed to the entire ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' rosters[[/note]], that [[{{Hypocrite}} some of the ''Melee''-viable characters ''also'' also have non-universal mechanics and guaranteed combos]], and that the 3.5 update of ''Project M'' actually toned down the over-the-top aspects of many of the characters. It's highly subjective.
24th Dec '16 1:34:35 AM Amagicalbadger
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** Though this tends to be the reaction with nerfs in any version, 3.5 was an especially controversial update at launch. Its purpose was to redesign many of the characters to generally play more consequently (i.e. have higher-commitment attacks, have toned-down recoveries [[note]]as to give edge-guarding opponents a greater advantage[[/note]], et cetera). The fans were especially surprised that even some of the characters perceived to not be high tier in 3.02 were nerfed. Although 3.5 is well-accepted these days, players of certain characters still make the case that the dev team went too far with nerfs.

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** Though this tends to be the reaction with nerfs in any version, 3.5 was an especially controversial update at launch. Its purpose was to redesign many of the characters to generally play more consequently (i.e.(e.g. have higher-commitment attacks, have toned-down recoveries [[note]]as to give edge-guarding opponents a greater advantage[[/note]], et cetera). The fans were especially surprised that even some of the characters perceived to not be high tier in 3.02 were nerfed. Although 3.5 is well-accepted these days, players of certain characters still make the case that the dev team went too far with nerfs.
24th Dec '16 1:33:18 AM Amagicalbadger
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''VideoGame/ProjectM'' aims to satisfy the UnpleasableFanbase of ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'', but that doesn't stop it from facing some divisiveness of its own.

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''VideoGame/ProjectM'' aims aimed to satisfy the UnpleasableFanbase of ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'', but that doesn't didn't stop it from facing some divisiveness of its own.



* ItsEasySoItSucks: One of the common complaints from detractors is that the game increases the input window for a lot of Melee's advanced mechanics to make them easier for less skilled players. Other common complaints include criticisms about the ease of recoveries on most characters, [[DefiedTrope though this was addressed 3.5]], and certain characters requiring a lower skill cap to match the output of high-skill characters (Fox and Falco, Melee's top-tier stars, are usually the baseline for this).

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* ItsEasySoItSucks: One of the common complaints from detractors is that the game increases the input window for a lot of Melee's advanced mechanics to make them easier for less skilled players. Other common complaints include criticisms about the ease of recoveries on most characters, characters [[DefiedTrope though this was addressed 3.5]], and certain characters requiring a lower skill cap to match the output of high-skill characters (Fox and Falco, Melee's top-tier top/high tier stars, are usually the baseline for this).this).
** It's also consequence of how the team approached making more characters viable. Some ''Melee'' players dislike that the overall design of the game is, compared to ''Melee'', much more contrived (specifically in buffing many characters in non-standard ways to compete with Melee's high tier characters), which ''arguably'' made the game less about precise spacing and more about so-called moveset "gimmicks"[[note]]such as the abundance of effective projectiles[[/note]] and "auto-combos"[[note]]loosely defined as combos that are reliable within generous criteria, a concept not typically emphasized in ''Smash Bros.''[[/note]]. On the other side, one could make the case that it's unfair to hate the newly-viable characters for basically just being different from the few high tier ''Melee'' characters[[note]]as opposed to the entire ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' rosters[[/note]], that [[{{Hypocrite}} some of the ''Melee''-viable characters ''also'' have non-universal mechanics and guaranteed combos]], and that the 3.5 update of ''Project M'' actually toned down the over-the-top aspects of many of the characters. It's highly subjective.
6th Dec '16 2:49:09 AM DarkMask
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Added DiffLines:

* CreatorsPet: Had the team been able to complete work on it, the first of the new characters that would have been added to the roster would have been [[TheRival Knuckles the Echidna]] from the Sonic series. Apparently the team are big fans of Knuckles, despite many fans assuming [[KidSidekick Tails ]]or [[EvilCounterpart Shadow]] would have been the more obvious choices. As far as the work the team was able to accomplish before scrapping the project, Knuckles was by the far the most complete of their new challengers.
23rd Jun '16 9:37:18 AM mlsmithca
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%% Do not link to AndTheFandomRejoiced; it is for in-universe examples only. The page even says not to link to it.

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%% Do not link to AndTheFandomRejoiced; And The Fandom Rejoiced; it is for in-universe examples only. The page even says not to link to it.
22nd Jun '16 4:48:30 PM SneaselSawashiro
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** From a different perspective, Ganondorf. Various animation and moveset changes were done to him in response to complaints about him being a Captain Falcon MovesetClone. Aside from that, he too has had his many problems from Brawl.

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** From a different perspective, Ganondorf. Various animation and moveset changes were done to him in response to complaints about him being a Captain Falcon MovesetClone. Aside from that, he too has had his many problems from Melee, and of course especially from Brawl.
22nd Jun '16 4:47:47 PM SneaselSawashiro
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** From a different perspective, Ganondorf. Various animation and moveset changes were done to him in response to complaints about him being a Captain Falcon MovesetClone.

to:

** From a different perspective, Ganondorf. Various animation and moveset changes were done to him in response to complaints about him being a Captain Falcon MovesetClone. Aside from that, he too has had his many problems from Brawl.
28th Jan '16 4:21:59 PM nombretomado
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** Most of the stages in ''SuperSmashBros for WiiU[=/=]3DS'' have a "Final Destination Mode", which turns them into something similar to the tournament-friendly versions of Brawl's stages featured here.
** This game splits the Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Trainer's trio of Squirte/Ivysaur/Charizard into three separate fighters. ''SuperSmashBros for WiiU[=/=]3DS'' also splits Charizard off into a single fighter.

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** Most of the stages in ''SuperSmashBros ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros for WiiU[=/=]3DS'' have a "Final Destination Mode", which turns them into something similar to the tournament-friendly versions of Brawl's stages featured here.
** This game splits the Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Trainer's trio of Squirte/Ivysaur/Charizard into three separate fighters. ''SuperSmashBros ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros for WiiU[=/=]3DS'' also splits Charizard off into a single fighter.
15th Jan '16 6:09:26 AM BreakinBenny
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** One user had leaked Project M's Clone Engine and [[http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=67706.0 codes]].[[note]]At the time, BrawlEx hadn't been released, which is why it was leaked.[[/note]] It, among other things, sparked friction between KC-MM and Project M members, pushing onto light an Open Vs. Closed Source debate relative to Brawl modding. [[note]]Basically, some people felt that the Project M team, which includes some of the best members and technical advances of the modding scene, has a tendency to hog the best tools to be used only for Project M. The argument against that notion is said tools are functional but not perfect enough for the team to be comfortable with distributing publicly.[[/note]]
** L-cancelling, pressing the shield button during an aerial attack to reduce the landing animation, is a hot topic of debate. Supporters say that it adds more options and makes the game require more skill to play. Detractors say that there is absolutely never any reason to ''not'' L-cancel that can't also be achieved by just waiting a few frames before the next input, so it should instead be done automatically rather than require what they perceive to be an unnecessary button press after every aerial attack. No other fighting game series controls in such a way.

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** One user had leaked Project M's Clone Engine and [[http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=67706.0 codes]].[[note]]At the time, BrawlEx hadn't been released, which is why it was leaked.[[/note]] It, among other things, sparked friction between KC-MM and Project M members, pushing onto light an Open Vs. Closed Source debate relative to Brawl modding. [[note]]Basically, some people felt that the Project M team, which includes some of the best members and technical advances of the modding scene, has a tendency to hog the best tools to be used only for Project M. The argument against that notion is said tools are functional but not perfect enough for the team to be comfortable with distributing publicly.[[/note]]
** L-cancelling, pressing the shield button during an aerial attack to reduce speed up the landing animation, is a hot topic of debate. Supporters say that it adds more options and makes the game require more skill to play. Detractors say that there is absolutely never any reason to ''not'' L-cancel that can't also be achieved by just waiting a few frames before the next input, so it should instead be done automatically rather than require what they perceive to be an unnecessary button press after every aerial attack. No other fighting game series controls in such a way.



* HeartwarmingMoments: They didn't get paid for this. They couldn't've. They didn't even take donations, for fear of Nintendo shutting them down. The project started as a few hobbyist programmers reverting Falco to his Melee move-set, and over the course of a few years and thousands upon thousands of hours of time invested, the most the Project M Back Room has made from their work was tournament winnings. [[DoingItForTheArt They did this for free,]] [[AwesomeDearBoy for a community they love.]]

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* HeartwarmingMoments: They didn't get paid for this. They couldn't've.this, nor could they have. They didn't even take donations, for fear of Nintendo shutting them down. The project started as a few hobbyist programmers reverting Falco to his Melee move-set, and over the course of a few years and thousands upon thousands of hours of time invested, the most the Project M Back Room has made from their work was tournament winnings. [[DoingItForTheArt They did this for free,]] [[AwesomeDearBoy for a community they love.]]



** Dr. Mario and Mario were merged into one character in this mod, to the point of having Dr. Mario only be an alternate costume for Mario. In ''Super Smash Bros. for Wii U[=/=]3DS'', Dr. Mario returns as an alternative to the normal Mario meant to appeal to ''Melee'' players due to him being more popular than the normal Mario in competitive play.

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** Dr. Mario and Mario were merged into one character in this mod, to the point of having Dr. Mario only be an alternate costume for Mario. In ''Super Smash Bros. for ''for Wii U[=/=]3DS'', Dr. Mario returns as an alternative to the normal Mario meant to appeal to ''Melee'' players due to him being more popular than the normal Mario in competitive play.



** Even though the wait was long, Mewtwo and Roy were finally brought back proper in [=SSB4=] as DLC. Roy's Flare Blade special also has him holding the sword more horizontally, as he does in the mod.
** Lucario was turned into a {{Shotoclone}} with chainable moves in this game as a ShoutOut to Ryu from ''Franchise/StreetFighter''; he was even given an alternate costume somewhat resembling him. In June 2015, Ryu himself was confirmed as DLC for ''[=SSB4=]'', with a very similar (but coincidental) gimmick.

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** Even though the wait was long, Mewtwo and Roy were finally brought back proper in [=SSB4=] as DLC. Roy's Flare Blade special also has him holding the sword more horizontally, as he does in the ''Melee'' and this mod.
** Lucario was turned into a {{Shotoclone}} with chainable moves in this game as a ShoutOut to Ryu from ''Franchise/StreetFighter''; he it was even given an alternate costume (technically referencing the Black Belt class) somewhat resembling him. In June 2015, Ryu himself was confirmed as DLC for ''[=SSB4=]'', with a very similar (but coincidental) gimmick.



* LoveItOrHateIt: Opinions on the mod range from "It's the best ''Smash'' ever made" to "It's a deviation of a good game that didn't need to be fixed." Of course, this kind of debate is to be expected since the ''Smash Bros.'' fan base is infamous for how much it argues over how the games "should" be played since they offer such a wide variety of playing options.

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* LoveItOrHateIt: Opinions on the mod range from "It's the best ''Smash'' ever made" to "It's a deviation of a good game that didn't need to be fixed." Of course, this kind of debate is to be expected since the ''Smash Bros.'' fan base fanbase is infamous for how much it argues over how the games "should" be played since they offer such a wide variety of playing options.



** Inverted. Most of the tweaks to character movesets such as Ganondorf's float and Samus' Ice Beam mechanic are unanimously approved of because it makes them closer to their canon counterparts while keeping them unique.

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** Inverted.Played straight with various characters; as stated above, the changes to Lucario and Falco's movesets are considerably more heated among their ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U / 3DS'' players, and there is still a minority who prefer Wario's Bike to the ''VideoGame/WarioLand'' Shoulder Charge that he has now.
** [[InvertedTrope Inverted]].
Most of the tweaks to character movesets such as Ganondorf's float and Samus' Ice Beam mechanic are unanimously approved of because it makes them closer to their canon counterparts while keeping them unique.



** Played straight with other characters; as stated above, the changes to Lucario and Falco's movesets are considerably more heated among their ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U / 3DS'' players, and there is still a minority who prefer Wario's Bike to the ''VideoGame/WarioLand'' Shoulder Charge that he has now.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.ProjectM