History YMMV / PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies

25th Sep '16 12:20:08 PM Monolaf317
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** Averted in one notable case with [[spoiler:Robin Newman, post UnsettlingGenderReveal]]. It's a somewhat common phenomenon for Japanese girls to spell out certain words, but the thing is that in Japanese, since Japanese characters have the same name as the sound they make, there's literally no difference between spelling out a word and saying it really slowly [[PunctuatedForEmphasis or punctuating each syllable]]. They left this completely unchanged in the English version, so when she does it, actually spelling out words letter by letter, something that virtually nobody in America or any other English speaking country ever does, it doesn't come across as cute or stereotypically girly and more as an exceptionally odd personal quirk.

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** Averted in one notable case with [[spoiler:Robin Newman, post UnsettlingGenderReveal]]. It's a somewhat common phenomenon for Japanese girls to spell out certain words, but the thing is that in Japanese, since Japanese characters have the same name as the sound they make, there's literally no difference between spelling out a word and saying it really slowly [[PunctuatedForEmphasis or punctuating each syllable]]. They left this completely unchanged in the English version, so when she does it, actually spelling out words letter by letter, something that virtually nobody in America or any other English speaking country ever does, it doesn't come across as cute or stereotypically girly and more as an exceptionally odd personal quirk.quirk.
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19th Sep '16 1:32:24 AM NNinja
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* BrokenAesop: Case 3 is all about decrying the notion of the end justifying the means, and claims that working within the system, according to the rules, results in a more legitimate victory. However...
** In case five, [[spoiler:due to the failure of her legitimate attempts to retry the UR-1 trial, Aura Blackquill takes hostages and demands the retrial happen on her terms. Not only does she actually get what she wants, but the phantom gets caught and everyone lives happily ever after]]. Granted, [[spoiler:Aura ''does'' get jail time, and she ''was'' doing it to keep her own innocent brother from being executed--case 3 was mainly about going to ridiculous lengths for nothing but petty victory]], but it could be misconstrued against going against the moral of case 3. [[spoiler: And the fact that Phoenix and Edgeworth both recognize her crime as helpful to the cause and even APOLOGIZE to her for the mistakes of the law (instead of the opposite) just makes it even worse.]]
** Athena [[spoiler: falsely accused Hugh and Robin during Case 3 despite knowing they were innocent in a last ditch attempt to help. And also, Robin, Hugh and Juniper commited perjury in order to save each other.]] Had it not been for these actions, the case would not have ended on a happy note, yet the characters either ignore this or merely handwave it, even when [[VillainHasAPoint Aristotle Means rightfully pointed out that Athena was breaking the law.]]
** And that's not taking into account the many times the main and secondary characters have commited unethical, immoral, or even downright ''illegal'' actions, in order to prove a person innocent (or guilty, in the ''Investigations'' games), such as (but not limited to): Mia blackmailing Redd White in case 1-2 to get him to confess the truth, Phoenix and Edgeworth pressing a 9 year old kid to relive a painful moment until he broke down in tears to get more info during case 1-3, Maya interrupting a trial in case 1-4 to press Lotta so the trial wouldn't end too soon, Edgeworth not caring if Adrian Andrews commits suicide as long as she confesses something in case 2-4, [[spoiler:Edgeworth taking Phoenix's place in one of the trials of case 3-5 and even manipulating it thanks to Franziska so no one would notice, Trucy Wright staging being kidnapped thanks to Mr. Hat in ''Apollo Justice'' to get Apollo out of a tight spot]]...and the list goes on.
** True, some of those instances are acknowledged as wrong or unlawful, but even then the games tend to either handwave them as quirky acts from the characters or never even mention them; and the characters always recognize that those were the only ways to solve certain problems. All things considered, the ''Ace Attorney'' heroes '''always use all means necessary, including illegal means other than forging evidence, in order to pursue the truth''', so they DO consider the truth to be an important and/or fair enough end to justify what they do. So, really, the moral of Case 3 shouldn't be "The end doesn't justify the means" as much as it should be "The end doesn't justify using forged evidence, since it corrupts the truth. [[BrokenAesop Anything else, however, as long as it helps to bring the truth to the light, is fair play."]]
18th Sep '16 9:35:53 AM ACW
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* CompleteMonster: The spy known as [[AllLowercaseLetters the phantom]] is the BigBad, extremely nasty and is the second figure, after [[spoiler:Kristoph Gavin]], who ushered in "The Dark Age Of The Law." He started off by disguising himself with a mask he found and killing Athena Cykes's mother when Athena was only 11 years old, in front of her no less, and ended up getting [[spoiler:Prosecutor Blackquill convicted]]. He also sabotages a national symbol of pride, the HAT-1 rocket, almost killing the astronaut on board. Six years later, he likely killed [[spoiler:the real Detective Bobby Fulbright and assumed his identity in order to be Simon's handler]]. He also killed Apollo's best friend since junior high, Clay Terran, because Clay almost revealed his identity. He has ruined the lives of several people besides the aforementioned Athena Cykes and [[spoiler:Prosecutor Simon Blackquill]] and is indirectly responsible for almost every murder in the game, including setting off the bomb in the courtroom that was thought to be the work of Ted Tonate, which could have caused massive amount of death. Oh, and he [[FrameUp framed]] two girls, [[spoiler:Athena]] and her best friend, an IllGirl; [[spoiler: the aforementioned Prosecutor Blackquill]]; and an astronaut for his crimes. To top it all off, if one counts the murder done by his associate, Ted Tonate, he has the highest death toll of the entire franchise. What's really disturbing is that nobody knows his true identity and he doesn't feel emotions the same way "normal" people do. Because of this, he is a chillingly realistic version of a {{Sociopath}} in a video game.

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* CompleteMonster: The spy internationally-hired [[PsychoForHire mercenary spy]] known only as [[AllLowercaseLetters the phantom]] is the BigBad, extremely a nasty piece of work, and is the second figure, after [[spoiler:Kristoph Gavin]], who ushered in in "The Dark Age Of The Law." He started off by disguising himself with a mask His plan begins when he found murders the cheerful [[spoiler:Bobby Fulbright to assume his identity and killing become Simon Blackquill's handler]]. Before that, he killed Athena Cykes's mother when Athena was only 11 years old, in front of and pretended to be her, and using a Noh mask hanging from her no less, wall, as well as her jacket, he [[FrameUp fooled the helper robots]] into thinking Athena--then an 11-year-old child--had killed and ended up getting [[spoiler:Prosecutor disassembled her mother. By doing so, he gets the noble Prosecutor Blackquill convicted]]. He also sabotages a national symbol of pride, convicted and proceeds to sabotage the HAT-1 rocket, almost killing causing the astronaut on board. Six to barely escape with his life. After that was all done, some 7 years later, he likely sent a warning to the director Yuri Cosmos, and when that was ignored, bombed the space station. Afterwards he killed [[spoiler:the real Detective Bobby Fulbright and assumed his identity in order to be Simon's handler]]. He also killed Apollo's [[spoiler:Apollo's best friend since junior high, friend, Clay Terran, because Terran]], who tried to fight back, and threatened to expose his identity, framed the other astronaut and big brother figure to Apollo and Clay almost revealed his identity. He has ruined for the lives of several people besides the aforementioned Athena Cykes crime, and [[spoiler:Prosecutor Simon Blackquill]] and is indirectly responsible for almost every murder in the game, including setting off the bomb in when that failed, bombed the courtroom that to destroy a piece of evidence, nearly causing the deaths of hundreds, then framing Athena for this. He was thought also able to be the work of Ted Tonate, which could have caused massive amount of death. Oh, and he [[FrameUp framed]] two girls, [[spoiler:Athena]] and her frame Athena's best friend, an IllGirl; [[spoiler: [[IllGirl Juniper Woods]], for the aforementioned Prosecutor Blackquill]]; and an astronaut courtroom bombing. Had it not been for his crimes. To top it all off, if one counts Athena's moon rock earring being able to be compared with the murder done by his associate, Ted Tonate, destroyed moon rock, he has the highest death toll of the entire franchise. What's really disturbing is would have gotten away with everything. Be that nobody knows his true identity and as it may, he also doesn't feel emotions the same way "normal" people do. Because of this, he a normal person does, and as such, is a chillingly realistic version example of [[TheSociopath a {{Sociopath}} sociopath]] in a video game.
17th Sep '16 1:15:41 PM CombativeBoil
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Added DiffLines:

* BrokenAesop: Case 3 is all about decrying the notion of the end justifying the means, and claims that working within the system, according to the rules, results in a more legitimate victory. However...
** In case five, [[spoiler:due to the failure of her legitimate attempts to retry the UR-1 trial, Aura Blackquill takes hostages and demands the retrial happen on her terms. Not only does she actually get what she wants, but the phantom gets caught and everyone lives happily ever after]]. Granted, [[spoiler:Aura ''does'' get jail time, and she ''was'' doing it to keep her own innocent brother from being executed--case 3 was mainly about going to ridiculous lengths for nothing but petty victory]], but it could be misconstrued against going against the moral of case 3. [[spoiler: And the fact that Phoenix and Edgeworth both recognize her crime as helpful to the cause and even APOLOGIZE to her for the mistakes of the law (instead of the opposite) just makes it even worse.]]
** Athena [[spoiler: falsely accused Hugh and Robin during Case 3 despite knowing they were innocent in a last ditch attempt to help. And also, Robin, Hugh and Juniper commited perjury in order to save each other.]] Had it not been for these actions, the case would not have ended on a happy note, yet the characters either ignore this or merely handwave it, even when [[VillainHasAPoint Aristotle Means rightfully pointed out that Athena was breaking the law.]]
** And that's not taking into account the many times the main and secondary characters have commited unethical, immoral, or even downright ''illegal'' actions, in order to prove a person innocent (or guilty, in the ''Investigations'' games), such as (but not limited to): Mia blackmailing Redd White in case 1-2 to get him to confess the truth, Phoenix and Edgeworth pressing a 9 year old kid to relive a painful moment until he broke down in tears to get more info during case 1-3, Maya interrupting a trial in case 1-4 to press Lotta so the trial wouldn't end too soon, Edgeworth not caring if Adrian Andrews commits suicide as long as she confesses something in case 2-4, [[spoiler:Edgeworth taking Phoenix's place in one of the trials of case 3-5 and even manipulating it thanks to Franziska so no one would notice, Trucy Wright staging being kidnapped thanks to Mr. Hat in ''Apollo Justice'' to get Apollo out of a tight spot]]...and the list goes on.
** True, some of those instances are acknowledged as wrong or unlawful, but even then the games tend to either handwave them as quirky acts from the characters or never even mention them; and the characters always recognize that those were the only ways to solve certain problems. All things considered, the ''Ace Attorney'' heroes '''always use all means necessary, including illegal means other than forging evidence, in order to pursue the truth''', so they DO consider the truth to be an important and/or fair enough end to justify what they do. So, really, the moral of Case 3 shouldn't be "The end doesn't justify the means" as much as it should be "The end doesn't justify using forged evidence, since it corrupts the truth. [[BrokenAesop Anything else, however, as long as it helps to bring the truth to the light, is fair play."]]
15th Sep '16 9:13:45 AM Peridonyx
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** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment (see below). Some like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others were actually more impressed with the MagnificentBastard "hobo."

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** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment (see below). Some like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others were actually more impressed with think it's a BadassDecay step down from the MagnificentBastard "hobo."
15th Sep '16 8:59:18 AM Peridonyx
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** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others were actually more impressed with the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."

to:

** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. CharacterRerailment (see below). Some like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others were actually more impressed with the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] MagnificentBastard "hobo."
14th Sep '16 6:43:11 PM Peridonyx
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** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some people like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others think it's too jarring a contrast between the IndyPloy-reliant ButtMonkey and the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."

to:

** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some people like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others think it's too jarring a contrast between the IndyPloy-reliant ButtMonkey and were actually more impressed with the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."
14th Sep '16 6:41:33 PM Peridonyx
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** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some people like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others think it's just too jarring a contrast between the IndyPloy-reliant ButtMonkey and the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."

to:

** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some people like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others think it's just too jarring a contrast between the IndyPloy-reliant ButtMonkey and the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."
14th Sep '16 6:40:29 PM Peridonyx
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Added DiffLines:

** Phoenix's CharacterRerailment. Some people like how it's closer to his original portrayal; others think it's just too jarring a contrast between the IndyPloy-reliant ButtMonkey and the CrazyPrepared and [[DissonantSerenity Dissonantly Serene]] "hobo."
14th Sep '16 8:37:12 AM Peridonyx
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* TheScrappy: Florent L'Belle is easily the most disliked villain of the game, if not the series -- courtesy of his ComplexityAddiction and StupidEvil. [[spoiler:And his MeaninglessVillainVictory even if you somehow lose only ruins what little credibility he has left as a villain.]]

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* TheScrappy: Florent L'Belle is easily the most disliked villain of the game, if not the series -- courtesy of his unnecessary ComplexityAddiction and sheer StupidEvil. [[spoiler:And his MeaninglessVillainVictory even if you somehow lose only ruins what little credibility he has left as a villain.]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies