History YMMV / Persona4

3rd Sep '16 3:18:14 PM Animeking1108
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* InformedWrongness: Kashiwagi is often treated like she's worse than Morooka when her worst crime was getting jealous of Rise. Even flirting with her students would at worst get her fired since her students are well-within the age of consent.


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* UnintentionallySympathetic: Ms. Kashiwagi. While she's not exactly a saint, her students treat her like she's worse than Mr. Morooka. To put it in perspective, Morooka regularly berated his students, often complained about modern society despite getting drunk during a class trip, and made an incredibly disrespectful comment about Saki at her own memorial service. Kashiwagi's worst crime was being unattractive ([[HollywoodHomely even though she looks like she jumped out of a hentai]]) and act jealous towards Rise (or any student more attractive than her). Her envy could easily blamed on how she's often berated for her looks, where as Morooka didn't have a reason to act like a dick.
25th Aug '16 3:50:16 PM Gagaga_Madness
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** [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641809-persona-5/72205483 The game is also accused of somehow being offensive to both genders]]. The boys on the Investigation Team are sometimes depicted as [[MenArePerverts perverted misogynists]] and would often be on [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale the receiving end of]] AmusingInjuries. On the other hand, as mentioned above, a recurring joke about Hanako and Ms. Kashiwagi is how they're unattractive, the running gag of the girls being [[LethalChef terrible cooks]], and how Chie and Yukiko act disagreeable (for example, [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption them knocking Yu down a cliff during the camping trip, no matter what choice he picked]]) can lead to some uncomfortable, casual sexism.

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** [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641809-persona-5/72205483 The game is also accused of somehow being offensive to both genders]]. The boys on the Investigation Team are sometimes depicted as [[MenArePerverts [[AllMenArePerverts perverted misogynists]] and would often be on [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale the receiving end of]] AmusingInjuries. On the other hand, as mentioned above, a recurring joke about Hanako and Ms. Kashiwagi is how they're unattractive, the running gag of the girls being [[LethalChef terrible cooks]], and how Chie and Yukiko act disagreeable (for example, [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption them knocking Yu down a cliff during the camping trip, no matter what choice he picked]]) can lead to some uncomfortable, casual sexism.
24th Aug '16 12:17:54 PM Animeking1108
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** At the beginning of the game, Morooka was a grade-A JerkAss, but he crossed the line when he called [[SpeakIllOfTheDead Saki and Yamano sluts]] at the former's memorial ceremony.
18th Aug '16 9:50:01 AM KingZeal
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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The entire Amagi Inn scene.

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%% * BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The entire Amagi Inn scene.
18th Aug '16 9:25:53 AM Robergestudios
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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The entire Amagi Inn scene.



** There is numerous fanart for the protagonist and, guess who, [[SheIsAllGrownUp grown-up Nanako]]. It doesn't help that, if you max her and Dojima's S-Links, you can have her get a ChildhoodMarriagePromise from him.



** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with either [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]] or [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]]. It helps that Chie has something of a BelligerentSexualTension going on with the former, particularly in the anime.
** There is numerous fanart for the protagonist and, guess who, [[SheIsAllGrownUp grown-up Nanako]]. It doesn't help that, if you max her and Dojima's S-Links, you can have her get a ChildhoodMarriagePromise from him.
** Rise and Naoto get paired a fair amount when they aren't paired with the protagonist, and Naoto isn't with Kanji.

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** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with either [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]] or [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]]. It helps that Chie has something a lot of a BelligerentSexualTension going on blatant LesYay with the former, later, particularly in the anime.
** There is numerous fanart for the protagonist and, guess who, [[SheIsAllGrownUp grown-up Nanako]]. It doesn't help that, if you max her and Dojima's S-Links, you can have her get a ChildhoodMarriagePromise from him.
** Rise and Naoto get paired a fair amount when they aren't paired with the protagonist, and Naoto isn't with Kanji.
anime.



* {{Filler}}: Several scenes and sub arcs add nothing to the plot or characters and could have been dropped from the game completely and relatively little would have been lost in the characters or the central plot of the game. Examples include the camping trip, the school trip, the Amagi inn scene and the school festival among others. ''Golden'' proceeded to include even more.

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* {{Filler}}: Several scenes and sub arcs add nothing to the plot or characters and could have been dropped from the game completely and relatively little would have been lost in the characters or the central plot of the game. Examples include the camping trip, the school trip, [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment the Amagi inn scene scene]] and the school festival among others. ''Golden'' proceeded to include even more.
12th Aug '16 8:47:28 AM 9thOutworldsMan
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** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with either [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]] or [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]]. It helps that Chie has something of a BelligerentSexualTension going on with the former, ''especially'' in the anime.

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** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with either [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]] or [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]]. It helps that Chie has something of a BelligerentSexualTension going on with the former, ''especially'' particularly in the anime.
12th Aug '16 8:41:31 AM 9thOutworldsMan
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** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]], or sometimes [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]].

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** Outside of the protagonist, Chie is usually paired with either [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]] or [[RomanticTwoGirlFriendship Yukiko]], or sometimes [[PairTheSpares Yosuke]]. Yukiko]]. It helps that Chie has something of a BelligerentSexualTension going on with the former, ''especially'' in the anime.
3rd Aug '16 2:10:57 PM KingZeal
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* BrokenAesop:
** Yosuke, Naoki, and Hisano's Social Links involve them learning to come to terms with the death of a loved one. Those Aesops end up getting derailed when [[spoiler: Nanako comes BackFromTheDead]], preventing Yu from learning that lesson himself.
** Naoto crossdressing is treated very maturely and sympathetically throughout the story. However, during the School Festival, the boys are forcefully signed into a crossdressing pageant, and it's entirely PlayedForLaughs.
** Despite the CentralTheme about [[ArcWords "reaching out for the truth"]] and never ignoring an AwfulTruth, no matter how difficult or painful, everything about Inaba that might classify as "a complaint against society" [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong remains unquestioned and unchallenged.]] Japanese society, overall, tends to favor the group over the individual. For example, Yukiko dislikes being forced to inherit her family's inn: turns out, [[spoiler:what she ''really'' was worried about was having to do it all alone. The issue of not being able to choose her own job is thus not really addressed at all.]] Rise dislikes being seen as a media lust object but it turns out [[spoiler:she secretly enjoys being in the spotlight. Her objectification is written off as something she can just deal with by accepting the constructed lust object as "herself".]] Yumi has a complaint about her father selfishly abandoning his wife and child. [[spoiler:Her father ends up dying in the hospital, so Yumi decides to live up to her name and "bear fruit" by dropping out of the drama club; the narrative avoids assessing her father's behavior at all by casting Yumi's misgivings as selfish.]] And lastly, Adachi has a lot of complaints about how impossible it is to be rewarded for your hard work in the current job system if you aren't talented. Whether or not these complaints are accurate is never really addressed, because [[spoiler:Adachi is a psychotic serial killer who just uses this as justification to act ForTheEvulz. Thus, his complaints about society, even if they're valid, come out of a psychotic man-child's mouth.]]
3rd Aug '16 11:51:46 AM KINGBARBIE52
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Added DiffLines:

* BrokenAesop:
** Yosuke, Naoki, and Hisano's Social Links involve them learning to come to terms with the death of a loved one. Those Aesops end up getting derailed when [[spoiler: Nanako comes BackFromTheDead]], preventing Yu from learning that lesson himself.
** Naoto crossdressing is treated very maturely and sympathetically throughout the story. However, during the School Festival, the boys are forcefully signed into a crossdressing pageant, and it's entirely PlayedForLaughs.
** Despite the CentralTheme about [[ArcWords "reaching out for the truth"]] and never ignoring an AwfulTruth, no matter how difficult or painful, everything about Inaba that might classify as "a complaint against society" [[TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong remains unquestioned and unchallenged.]] Japanese society, overall, tends to favor the group over the individual. For example, Yukiko dislikes being forced to inherit her family's inn: turns out, [[spoiler:what she ''really'' was worried about was having to do it all alone. The issue of not being able to choose her own job is thus not really addressed at all.]] Rise dislikes being seen as a media lust object but it turns out [[spoiler:she secretly enjoys being in the spotlight. Her objectification is written off as something she can just deal with by accepting the constructed lust object as "herself".]] Yumi has a complaint about her father selfishly abandoning his wife and child. [[spoiler:Her father ends up dying in the hospital, so Yumi decides to live up to her name and "bear fruit" by dropping out of the drama club; the narrative avoids assessing her father's behavior at all by casting Yumi's misgivings as selfish.]] And lastly, Adachi has a lot of complaints about how impossible it is to be rewarded for your hard work in the current job system if you aren't talented. Whether or not these complaints are accurate is never really addressed, because [[spoiler:Adachi is a psychotic serial killer who just uses this as justification to act ForTheEvulz. Thus, his complaints about society, even if they're valid, come out of a psychotic man-child's mouth.]]
1st Aug '16 12:22:22 AM whizzerd
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** Did Saki really [[spoiler: hate Yosuke]]? As the battles with shadows have shown, they are an exaggeration of the character's true self rather than their true embodiment, such as Kanji being CampGay, Rise being promiscuous, and Chie resenting Yukiko. It's possible that Saki [[spoiler: hating Yosuke]] was just an exaggeration of her [[spoiler: frustration with her situation (working for Junes when the department store is taking business from her family's liquor shop) Or was present in a mild sense and exaggerated by her shadow, like Chie's resentment of Yukiko, likely also being a source of shame for her.]].
** [[spoiler: This is supported by the fact that the only time Saki is portrayed as hateful towards Yosuke it is her Shadow Self's lingering thoughts and of course she'd be freaked out by a rambling weirdo saying she'll die and a police officer who is leering at her, so her reactions to them are justified. The one scene she has with Yosuke, she legitimately seems worried about him making friends due to being both new in town and the son of the manager of Junes. And since she is being pressured herself about the latter both at home and by strangers, it's just as likely that she actually means what she says about Yu looking after Yosuke.]]
*** Alternatively, [[spoiler: it was all an illusion by Yosuke's shadow]], representing what Yosuke feared she thought of him.
** Is [[spoiler: Izanami a judgemental figure legitimately doing what she thinks is best for humanity]], or is she a lying, scheming, vindictive [[PrecisionFStrike bitch]]?

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** Did Saki really [[spoiler: hate Yosuke]]? As the battles with shadows have shown, they are an exaggeration of the character's true self rather than their true embodiment, such as Kanji being CampGay, Rise being promiscuous, and Chie resenting Yukiko. It's possible that Saki [[spoiler: hating Yosuke]] was just an exaggeration of her [[spoiler: frustration with her situation (working for Junes when the department store is taking business from her family's liquor shop) Or or was present in a mild sense and exaggerated by her shadow, like Chie's resentment of Yukiko, likely also being a source of shame for her.]].
**
her. [[spoiler: This is supported by the fact that the only time Saki is portrayed as hateful towards Yosuke it is her Shadow Self's lingering thoughts thoughts, and of course she'd be freaked out by a rambling weirdo saying she'll die and a police officer who is leering at her, so her reactions to them are justified. The one scene she has with Yosuke, Yosuke she legitimately seems worried about him making friends due to being both new in town and the son of the manager of Junes. And since she is being pressured herself about the latter both at home and by strangers, it's just as likely that she actually means what she says about Yu looking after Yosuke. Alternatively, it was all an illusion by Yosuke's shadow, representing what Yosuke feared she thought of him.]]
*** Alternatively, ** [[spoiler: it was all an illusion by Yosuke's shadow]], representing what Yosuke feared she thought of him.
**
Is [[spoiler: Izanami a judgemental figure legitimately doing what she thinks is best for humanity]], humanity, or is she a lying, scheming, vindictive [[PrecisionFStrike bitch]]?bitch]]?]]



** Marie is [[BaseBreakingCharacter controversial]] in the American fandom, often compared to Poochie from TheSimpsons, due to her {{tsundere}} personality and somewhat aggressive inclusion in the remake and spinoffs (to the point that ''Anime/Persona4GoldenTheAnimation'' is largely focused on her). However, perhaps because of to [[Creator/KanaHanazawa her seiyuu's]] current popularity, she is much more popular in her native Japan.
** To a lesser degree, Yosuke, who within the western fandom is more of a BaseBreakingCharacter and is overshone by Kanji. His tendencies to needle his friends, particularly Kanji, have been interpreted as both sexist and homophobic. He does have a respectable western fanbase but many were surprised to see him win an offical character poll focusing on Persona 4 Golden characters.
* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: Much like the previous game, you have Teddie for an announcer during battles, who gives you information about damage taken or status effects. Unfortunately, much like MissionControl in the previous game he. [[PunctuatedForEmphasis Just. Won't. Shut. Up.]] It is made slightly better by the fact that Teddie is replaced midway through by Rise, but she also never shuts up and neither she nor Teddie ever tell you anything you couldn't already see on the screen. This also becomes irritating because they never stop talking about the number of enemies, who defeated what enemy and what a cool move the character made. Unfortunately, one of the trophies in ''Golden'' requires you to hear 250 of Rise's navigation lines, which is GuideDangIt for more annoyance. Rise does get more useful if you max out her Social Link, when she gets the Weakness Scan ability which causes her to randomly reveal one enemy's weakness or immunity at the start of battle.
** If you go up to your room on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday, the game will remind you if you haven't bought anything from the shopping network. This gets annoying in December, when [[spoiler:Tanaka begins selling gas masks and medical kits because of the fog]], and you don't even have the option to buy anything.

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** Marie is [[BaseBreakingCharacter controversial]] in the American fandom, often compared to Poochie from TheSimpsons, due to her {{tsundere}} personality and somewhat aggressive inclusion in the remake and spinoffs (to the point that ''Anime/Persona4GoldenTheAnimation'' is largely focused on her). However, perhaps because of to [[Creator/KanaHanazawa her seiyuu's]] current popularity, she is much more popular in her native Japan.
** To a lesser degree, Yosuke, who within the western fandom is more of a BaseBreakingCharacter and is overshone by Kanji. His tendencies to needle his friends, particularly Kanji, have been interpreted as both sexist and homophobic. He does have a respectable western fanbase but many were surprised to see him win an offical official character poll focusing on Persona 4 Golden characters.
* AnnoyingVideoGameHelper: AnnoyingVideoGameHelper:
**
Much like the previous game, you have Teddie for an announcer during battles, who gives you information about damage taken or status effects. Unfortunately, much like MissionControl in the previous game he. [[PunctuatedForEmphasis Just. Won't. Shut. Up.]] It is made slightly better by the fact that Teddie is replaced midway through by Rise, but she also never shuts up and neither she nor Teddie ever tell you anything you couldn't already see on the screen. This also becomes irritating because they never stop talking about the number of enemies, who defeated what enemy and what a cool move the character made. Unfortunately, one of the trophies in ''Golden'' requires you to hear 250 of Rise's navigation lines, which is GuideDangIt for more annoyance. Rise does get more useful if you max out her Social Link, when she gets the Weakness Scan ability which causes her to randomly reveal one enemy's weakness or immunity at the start of battle.
** If you go up to your room on Sunday, Monday Monday, or Tuesday, the game will remind you if you haven't bought anything from the shopping network. This gets annoying in December, when [[spoiler:Tanaka begins selling gas masks and medical kits because of the fog]], and you don't even have the option to buy anything.



** [[spoiler: Nanako's resurrection]]. There really wasn't much explanation for it aside from [[spoiler: the fact that you didn't kill Namatame]].

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** [[spoiler: Nanako's resurrection]]. resurrection. There really wasn't much explanation for it aside from [[spoiler: the fact that you didn't kill Namatame]].



** There are two kinds of people when it comes to Adachi: either he´s an obstructive dumbass with little to no relevance to the plot, or he's a hilarious comic relief. There's also him being granted a Social Link in ''Golden'', which is loved by his fans but considered little more than PanderingToTheBase by those not into Adachi's character.
** Marie. For some fans she's a refreshing addition to the game, a good-looking, 'emo' styled {{Tsundere}} with a mysterious past and a decent character who adds a lot to the story and pacing, [[spoiler: Particularly during the "Hollow Forest" segment]]. For others she's rude, clichéd, writes bad poetry, and feels forced upon the player as an ImpliedLoveInterest.

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** There are two kinds of people when it comes to Adachi: either he´s he's an obstructive dumbass with little to no relevance to the plot, or he's a hilarious comic relief. There's also him being granted a Social Link in ''Golden'', which is loved by his fans but considered little more than PanderingToTheBase by those not into Adachi's character.
** Marie. For some fans she's a refreshing addition to the game, a good-looking, 'emo' styled {{Tsundere}} with a mysterious past and a decent character who adds a lot to the story and pacing, [[spoiler: Particularly particularly during the "Hollow Forest" segment]]. For others she's rude, clichéd, writes bad poetry, and feels forced upon the player as an ImpliedLoveInterest.



** On the Hermit Social Link, the second-to-last quest is arguably the easiest, as it can be completed in the course of a single day. You only need to search two locations for the wallet.

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** On the Hermit Social Link, Link the second-to-last quest is arguably the easiest, as it can be completed in the course of a single day. You only need to search two locations for the wallet.



** Rise and Kanji have also turned into a surprisingly popular one as well. Interesting in the fact that, story-wise, the two have crushes on different characters (the Protagonist and Naoto respectively) and that Kanji is explicitly disinterested in her to the point that it irritates her in ''Golden''. They do seem to get along quite well in the game (the game notes it may be because the others in the team are second years whilst the two of them are the only first years in the group until Naoto joins) and people may see them as an alternate Yosuke and Chie pairing without the UST.
*** Oddly enough, this pairing might have been referenced in Persona Q, where Yukiko, at one point, believes that Kanji has a crush on Rise and should confess to her. [[ShipperOnDeck The player has a dialogue option that supports this pairing.]]
** The Japanese fanbase is quite fond of pairing Naoto and Rise together. This is actually because of [[RelationshipVoiceActor the voice actor connection.]] Rise is voiced by Creator/RieKugimiya and Naoto is voiced by RomiPaku: they've had many roles where they worked together, notably Ed (Romi Paku) and Al (Rie Kugimiya) Elric from FMA. Romi Paku once stated in a behind the scenes interview for FMA that she wanted Rie Kugimiya to come and cook for her in nothing but an apron. There tends to be a fair bit of teasing subtext between them during interviews together.

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** Rise and Kanji have also turned into a surprisingly popular one as well. Interesting in the fact that, story-wise, the two have crushes on different characters (the Protagonist and Naoto respectively) and that Kanji is explicitly disinterested in her to the point that it irritates her in ''Golden''. They do seem to get along quite well in the game (the game notes it may be because the others in the team are second years whilst the two of them are the only first years in the group until Naoto joins) and people may see them as an alternate Yosuke and Chie pairing without the UST.
***
UST. Oddly enough, this pairing might have been referenced in Persona Q, where Yukiko, at one point, believes that Kanji has a crush on Rise and should confess to her. [[ShipperOnDeck The player has a dialogue option that supports this pairing.]]
** The Japanese fanbase is quite fond of pairing Naoto and Rise together. This is actually because of [[RelationshipVoiceActor the voice actor connection.]] Rise is voiced by Creator/RieKugimiya and Naoto is voiced by RomiPaku: Creator/RomiPark: they've had many roles where they worked together, notably Ed (Romi Paku) Park) and Al (Rie Kugimiya) Elric from FMA. Romi Paku Park once stated in a behind the scenes interview for FMA that she wanted Rie Kugimiya to come and cook for her in nothing but an apron. There tends to be a fair bit of teasing subtext between them during interviews together.



* EarWorm: Notably the main theme song "Pursuing My True Self", and [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChrBp1pEGM "Your Affection"]]. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd1Ibilzcck "Jika Net Tanaka"]] (returning from ''Persona 3'') and [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95kCDBId9_E "Junes' Theme"]] are also contenders.
** In fact, the Junes jingle counts as an in-universe example.

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* EarWorm: Notably the main theme song "Pursuing My True Self", and [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChrBp1pEGM "Your Affection"]]. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd1Ibilzcck "Jika Net Tanaka"]] (returning from ''Persona 3'') and [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95kCDBId9_E "Junes' Theme"]] are also contenders.
**
contenders. In fact, the Junes jingle counts as an in-universe example.



** This particular game is notable for spawning even ''more'' than games of [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei its franchise]] usually do, thanks in no small part to leaving certain side-mysteries from the main plot tantalizingly half-answered or unanswered at all (in order to leave plot hooks for [[CashCowFranchise the inevitable]] [[VideoGame/Persona4Arena sequel]], in all likelyhood). Naoto being a descendant of [[RaidouKuzunohaVsTheSoullessArmy Raidou Kuzunoha]] and/or a relative of {{Persona3}}'s Protagonist (and the two are not mutually exclusive), the exact nature of Teddie- as he's ''clearly'' not ''just'' a joe shmoe Shadow who wants to be nice to humans- and the nature of the TV World and how it relates to the Dark Hour and Abyss of Time from ''Persona 3'' are especially popular targets for tree-planting.

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** This particular game is notable for spawning even ''more'' than games of [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei its franchise]] usually do, thanks in no small part to leaving certain side-mysteries from the main plot tantalizingly half-answered or unanswered at all (in order to leave plot hooks for [[CashCowFranchise the inevitable]] [[VideoGame/Persona4Arena sequel]], in all likelyhood). Naoto being a descendant of [[RaidouKuzunohaVsTheSoullessArmy Raidou Kuzunoha]] and/or a relative of {{Persona3}}'s {{Persona 3}}'s Protagonist (and the two are not mutually exclusive), the exact nature of Teddie- Teddie [[spoiler:- as he's ''clearly'' not ''just'' a joe shmoe Shadow who wants to be nice to humans- humans-]] and the nature of the TV World and how it relates to the Dark Hour and Abyss of Time from ''Persona 3'' are especially popular targets for tree-planting.



* EscapistCharacter: Yu definitely qualifies as he can romance school and TV idols, is an uncontested leader, a SupremeChef, a WarriorTherapist and generally comes out as a all-around cool guy for absolutely everyone he meets.

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* EscapistCharacter: Yu definitely qualifies as he can romance school and TV idols, is an uncontested leader, a SupremeChef, a WarriorTherapist and generally comes out as a an all-around cool guy for absolutely everyone he meets.



** Being a HeroicMime, the protagonist's personality is ultimately determined by the player, but some personality traits have become recurring in fanfiction, such as him being a BadassBookworm, a DeadpanSnarker (His dialogue options tend to head towards OnlySaneMan most of the time, but sometimes head towards this), a NiceGuy and the OnlySaneMan (Literal non-example, he's the only member of the party whose persona does not stem from having resolved his own mental issues (he hasn't got any). If you pay attention, most of his dialogue choices tend to edge towards this as well.) Many of these traits would become canon after future games established the anime's Yu Narukami as "canon".

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** Being a HeroicMime, the protagonist's personality is ultimately determined by the player, but some personality traits have become recurring in fanfiction, such as him being a BadassBookworm, a DeadpanSnarker (His dialogue options tend to head towards OnlySaneMan most of the time, but sometimes head towards this), a NiceGuy and the OnlySaneMan (Literal non-example, he's the only member of the party whose persona does not stem from having resolved his own mental issues (he since he hasn't got any).any. If you pay attention, most of his dialogue choices tend to edge towards this as well.) Many of these traits would become canon after future games established the anime's Yu Narukami as "canon".



** "Naoto is Transsexual" has become a popular topic of debate and interpretation. Note that, [[AmbiguouslyGay unlike with Kanji]], [[WholesomeCrossdresser this aspect was actually unintentional]]. The non-canon Naoto spinoff, [[spoiler:and additional story elements for ''Golden'']] [[ShesAllGrownUp have jossed this theory entirely]], as she's shown to [[GirlinessUpgrade give a try to embracing her feminine side,]] but that hasn't stopped certain sections of fandom from holding this interpretation.



** The most popular Het pairing for the Protagonist has actually varied over the years. When the game initially released, Naoto was the clear the front runner, though her subsequent ShipTease with Kanji has caused the popularity to cool over time. Nowadays, it seems to be a dead set tie between Rise and Yukiko, with Chie also becoming a more viable option.
*** And then there's the protagonist and [[TheNotLoveInterest Yosuke]]. Easily one of the most popular ships in the fandom (both for western and eastern fans), which is largely because of the considerable HoYay vibes between them.

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** The most popular Het pairing for the Protagonist has actually varied over the years. When the game initially released, Naoto was the clear the front runner, though her subsequent ShipTease with Kanji has caused the popularity to cool over time. Nowadays, it seems to be a dead set tie between Rise and Yukiko, with Chie also becoming a more viable option.
*** And then there's the ** The protagonist and [[TheNotLoveInterest Yosuke]]. Easily one of the most popular ships in the fandom (both for western and eastern fans), which is largely because of the considerable HoYay vibes between them.



** There is numerous fanart for protagonist and, guess who, [[SheIsAllGrownUp grown-up Nanako]]. It doesn't help that, if you max her and Dojima's S-Links, you can have her get a ChildhoodMarriagePromise from him.

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** There is numerous fanart for the protagonist and, guess who, [[SheIsAllGrownUp grown-up Nanako]]. It doesn't help that, if you max her and Dojima's S-Links, you can have her get a ChildhoodMarriagePromise from him.



* FountainOfMemes: Adachi.

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* FountainOfMemes: Adachi. He has a lot of [[OffModel odd expressions]] and memorable lines [[spoiler: especially once he's revealed as the killer]] that fandom have latched onto.



* FunnyAneurysmMoment: On certain days, Mitsuo can be found standing across the street from Tatsumi Textiles. Talk to him, and he'll suspect Morooka of being the murderer. If you know what happens later in the game, this is either amusing or disturbing.

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* FunnyAneurysmMoment: FunnyAneurysmMoment:
**
On certain days, days Mitsuo can be found standing across the street from Tatsumi Textiles. Talk to him, and he'll suspect Morooka of being the murderer. If you know what happens later in the game, this is either amusing or disturbing.



** Golden Hands now hand out tremendous amounts of cash when you kill them as well as fantastic experience for beating them too. Early game requires Chie's Rebellion/Revolution to earn the critical hits (or buying items from the Shiroku store to help get around the higher defenses), but once you start getting the Megido line of spells, then your only challenge is to kill them off before they flee. The prizes are too good; and it becomes really easy to power level.
** Also from ''Golden'', advancing Rise's Social Link now grants her even more abilities that turn the game to cakewalk: once per battle, she can summon a BeehiveBarrier to completely nullify a multi-target enemy spell that would have killed an ally, and if the hero is defeated, she can revive him once with full health and SP. She can also randomly pop in to heal your whole team, restore your SP, or cast a Ma-kaja or Ma-taru spell. Not to mention that your all-out attacks can sometimes get a power boost, which is just the icing on the cake.
** Fusion and the Persona Compendium, if you've got money to burn, especially on Golden. Many of the higher level Personas, such as those obtained from completing S. Links, like Beelzebub, are extremely powerful, and with the right skills they make the game trivially easy. A few notable Personas that ''aren't'' final S. Link are available as soon as you have the money and level to put them together.

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** Golden Hands now hand out tremendous amounts of cash when you kill them as well as fantastic experience for beating them too. Early game requires Chie's Rebellion/Revolution to earn the critical hits (or buying items from the Shiroku store to help get around the higher defenses), but once you start getting the Megido line of spells, then your only challenge is to kill them off before they flee. The prizes are too good; good, and it becomes really easy to power level.
** Also from ''Golden'', advancing Rise's Social Link now grants her even more abilities that turn the game to into a cakewalk: once per battle, she can summon a BeehiveBarrier to completely nullify a multi-target enemy spell that would have killed an ally, and if the hero is defeated, she can revive him once with full health and SP. She can also randomly pop in to heal your whole team, restore your SP, or cast a Ma-kaja or Ma-taru spell. Not to mention that your all-out attacks can sometimes get a power boost, which is just the icing on the cake.
** Fusion and the Persona Compendium, if you've got money to burn, especially on Golden. Many of the higher level Personas, such as those obtained from completing S. Links, like Beelzebub, are extremely powerful, and with the right skills they make the game trivially easy. A few notable Personas that ''aren't'' final S. Link are available as soon as you have the money and level to put them together.together:



** The ability for skills to randomly change during fusion. It is random, yes, but it is also possible for a Level 45 or 50 persona to get ''Victory Cry,'' which can normally only be gotten by Lucifer at level 99. This makes the rest of the game a cakewalk in terms of grinding. A trick with the Persona Kaiwan, normally around Level 25 or so, can be fused on a specific day some time during June, and with enough patience and luck, it can acquire Victory Cry, which can then be fused onto other Personas.
* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: This holds true in relation to ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}''. ''Persona 3'' was a little better received in Japan and is generally considered the better of the two games, and got ''far'' more spinoff merch due to the incredible demand; ''Persona 4'', meanwhile, still got a decent reception but not a great one and not much secondary merch. The opposite holds true in America and Europe, though; while ''Persona 3'' did basically bring real mainstream attention onto the franchise, ''Persona 4'' was reviewed '''much''' higher and is generally considered to be a whisper away from total perfection and quickly became the best-selling SMT title in the West ''ever'' (which actually had the effect of making ''Persona 4'' the best-selling SMT game ever due to worldwide sales).
** This may actually be spilling back to its homeland as well, with several spinoff merch and sequels that are about equal with ''Persona 3''. And hey, Atlus sure didn't call the crossover fighting game ''[[VideoGame/Persona4Arena Persona 3 Arena]]''.

to:

** The ability for skills to randomly change during fusion. It is random, yes, but it is also possible for a Level 45 or 50 persona to get ''Victory Cry,'' which can normally only be gotten by Lucifer at level Level 99. This makes the rest of the game a cakewalk in terms of grinding. A trick with the Persona Kaiwan, normally around Level 25 or so, can be fused on a specific day some time during June, and with enough patience and luck, it can acquire Victory Cry, which can then be fused onto other Personas.
* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: This holds true in relation to ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}''. ''Persona 3'' was a little better received in Japan and is generally considered the better of the two games, and got ''far'' more spinoff merch due to the incredible demand; ''Persona 4'', meanwhile, still got a decent reception but not a great one and not much secondary merch. The opposite holds true in America and Europe, though; while ''Persona 3'' did basically bring real mainstream attention onto the franchise, ''Persona 4'' was reviewed '''much''' higher and is generally considered to be a whisper away from total perfection and quickly became the best-selling SMT title in the West ''ever'' (which actually had the effect of making ''Persona 4'' the best-selling SMT game ever due to worldwide sales).
**
sales). This may actually be spilling back to its homeland as well, with several spinoff merch and sequels that are about equal with ''Persona 3''. And hey, Atlus sure didn't call the crossover fighting game ''[[VideoGame/Persona4Arena Persona 3 Arena]]''.



** ''[[UpdatedRerelease Golden]]'' has [[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Ranger_Featherman_R Feathermen]] [[http://i.imgur.com/r0k8l.jpg outfits]] for the Investigation Team, which is triply hilarious because of JohnnyYongBosch's well known role as the Black Power Ranger in ''Series/MightyMorphinPowerRangers'', was introduced as a transfer student to Angel Grove, and that ''Series/PowerRangersOperationOverdrive'' episode "Once a Ranger" had him leading a team of assorted Power Rangers.
*** And taken even further in ''VideoGame/Persona4ArenaUltimax'', with the returning ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' party member Yukari Takeba being revealed to be the actress portraying ''[[ShowWithinAShow Phoenix Ranger Featherman R]]'''s Pink Argus, and that she's wearing her Pink Argus costume as she wanders around Inaba.

to:

** ''[[UpdatedRerelease Golden]]'' has [[http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_Ranger_Featherman_R Feathermen]] [[http://i.imgur.com/r0k8l.jpg outfits]] for the Investigation Team, which is triply hilarious because of JohnnyYongBosch's Creator/JohnnyYongBosch's well known role as the Black Power Ranger in ''Series/MightyMorphinPowerRangers'', was introduced as a transfer student to Angel Grove, and that ''Series/PowerRangersOperationOverdrive'' episode "Once a Ranger" had him leading a team of assorted Power Rangers.
*** And taken
Rangers. Taken even further in ''VideoGame/Persona4ArenaUltimax'', with the returning ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' party member Yukari Takeba being revealed to be the actress portraying ''[[ShowWithinAShow Phoenix Ranger Featherman R]]'''s Pink Argus, and that she's wearing her Pink Argus costume as she wanders around Inaba.



** The common comparison that [[spoiler:Ameno-Sagiri looks like a giant disco ball]] has become this after the announcement of ''Persona 4: Dancing All Night'', a rhythm game featuring the Investigation Team.

to:

** The common comparison that [[spoiler:Ameno-Sagiri [[spoiler:Ameno-Sagiri]] looks like a giant disco ball]] ball has become this after the announcement of ''Persona 4: Dancing All Night'', a rhythm game featuring the Investigation Team.



* IdiotPlot: The conflict would have been halfway resolved if the group just showed Dojima they could enter the TV and explain how Personas work, [[WebVideo/CinemaSins nobody who watches surveillance footage for a living notices]] [[spoiler: Adachi attacking people who are already on watch by the police]], the victims would often get kidnapped simply because the heroes let their guards down for a moment, and nobody thinks that after at least the third time they faced a character's Shadow to stop them from denying that it's them, a mistake that still carries over in ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena.''
** The team's inability to stop someone from denying their Shadow gets so bad, that by the final time it happens, Kanji even suggests that the party just let it happen, and they'll just have a boss battle like they always do. ''VideoGame/PersonaQShadowOfTheLabyrinth'', however, has Naoto and Yosuke suggest that it's essentially impossible to avoid fighting the Shadows, since people cannot easily accept those parts of those personalities.

to:

* IdiotPlot: The conflict would have been halfway resolved if the group just showed Dojima they could enter the TV and explain how Personas work, [[WebVideo/CinemaSins nobody who watches surveillance footage for a living notices]] [[spoiler: Adachi attacking people who are already on watch by the police]], the victims would often get kidnapped simply because the heroes let their guards down for a moment, and nobody thinks that after at least the third time they faced a character's Shadow to stop them from denying that it's them, a mistake that still carries over in ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena.''
**
'' The team's inability to stop someone from denying their Shadow gets so bad, that by the final time it happens, Kanji even suggests that the party just let it happen, and they'll just have a boss battle like they always do. ''VideoGame/PersonaQShadowOfTheLabyrinth'', however, has Naoto and Yosuke suggest that it's essentially impossible to avoid fighting the Shadows, since people cannot easily accept those parts of those personalities.



* ItsPopularNowItSucks: Now that Atlus has [[CashCowFranchise built up a franchise around]] ''Persona 4'', this type of {{Hatedom}} has come out the woodworks.
** Taken UpToEleven with the 2013 Persona event, which announced a grand total of four Persona games, three of them P4 related. This event pretty much shattered the ''Shin Megami Tensei'' fandom due to Atlus' focus on P4; for comparison, ''three'' non spin-off games were released since 2000 while Persona had ''five'', counting remakes. For all intents and purposes, P4 has become Atlus' equivalent of ''FinalFantasyVII''.

to:

** Naoto's gender; you'll find people asserting either that she's [[UsefulNotes/{{Transgender}} female-to-male]] or that she's simply a woman trying to survive in a field where women are not taken as seriously as men.
* ItsPopularNowItSucks: Now that Atlus has [[CashCowFranchise built up a franchise around]] ''Persona 4'', this type of {{Hatedom}} has come out the woodworks.
**
woodworks. Taken UpToEleven with the 2013 Persona event, which announced a grand total of four Persona games, three of them P4 related. This event pretty much shattered the ''Shin Megami Tensei'' fandom due to Atlus' focus on P4; for comparison, ''three'' non spin-off games were released since 2000 while Persona had ''five'', counting remakes. For all intents and purposes, P4 has become Atlus' equivalent of ''FinalFantasyVII''.



** Naoto's gender. It was actually supposed to be a surprise, but between [[FanPreferredCouple all the fanart pairing a feminized version of herself with the Protagonist or Kanji]] and her American VA's poor job of disguising her gender it couldn't be helped. The secret was much better concealed in Japan, giving Romi Park's long history of voicing young male characters. The spinoffs not concealing this at all don't help matters, either, so at this juncture it's basically not even worth tagging as a spoiler.

to:

** Naoto's gender. It was actually supposed to be a surprise, but between [[FanPreferredCouple all the fanart pairing a feminized version of herself with the Protagonist or Kanji]] and her American VA's poor job of disguising her gender it couldn't be helped. The secret was much better concealed in Japan, giving Romi Park's Creator/RomiPark's long history of voicing young male characters. The spinoffs not concealing this at all don't help matters, either, so at this juncture it's basically not even worth tagging as a spoiler.



** Mitsuo Kubo. Though on the surface he seems to be an irredeemable, sociopathic [[spoiler:murderer]], one ought to stop for a moment and consider the kind of isolation he must have gone through to make him ''that'' desperate for attention that he would [[spoiler:kill a person who we're given reason to believe had been abusing him, which would also imply that he'd been [[SadistTeacher tormenting kids]] ''from other schools'', and take credit for two other murders ''just to prove that he exists.'' Voices in his dungeon such as "Sadness increases by 5" and a long scream of "I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING" don't help matters either.]] Though his actions aren't justified, those who can see past their hatred might still wish things could have turned out better for him, or at least that he had thought twice.
*** [[spoiler: Morooka wasn't tormenting kids from other schools - he had Mitsuo expelled from school for some sort of minor infraction. Still qualifies him for being a SadistTeacher but it was far from tormenting a student from another school.]]

to:

** Mitsuo Kubo. Though on the surface he seems to be an irredeemable, sociopathic [[spoiler:murderer]], one ought to stop for a moment and consider the kind of isolation he must have gone through to make him ''that'' desperate for attention that he would [[spoiler:kill a person who we're given reason to believe had been abusing him, which would also imply that he'd been [[SadistTeacher tormenting kids]] ''from other schools'', expelled him for a minor infraction and take credit for two other murders ''just to prove that he exists.'' Voices in his dungeon such as "Sadness increases by 5" and a long scream of "I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING" don't help matters either.]] Though his actions aren't justified, those who can see past their hatred might still wish things could have turned out better for him, or at least that he had thought twice.
*** [[spoiler: Morooka wasn't tormenting kids from other schools - he had Mitsuo expelled from school for some sort of minor infraction. Still qualifies him for being a SadistTeacher but it was far from tormenting a student from another school.]]
twice.



* MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:In ''Golden'', '''''the Protagonist''''' can cross this by burning the evidence needed to implicate Adachi.]]

to:

* MoralEventHorizon: MoralEventHorizon:
**
[[spoiler:In ''Golden'', '''''the Protagonist''''' can cross this by burning the evidence needed to implicate Adachi.]]



** Also in ''Golden'', the choice to trigger the new [[spoiler:accomplice]] ending comes after a flashback to [[spoiler:the good times you've had with Adachi]] in order to make the idea of [[spoiler:betraying your teammates]] more appealing. Except that [[spoiler:Adachi doesn't get that many scenes, even with his new Social Link]], so the game is pretty much trying to get you to [[spoiler:team up with the killer]] by reminding you that [[spoiler:you went grocery shopping with him and invited him for dinner a few times]]. Somehow, the choice ends up not being as difficult as the developers intended it to be, so players who head down that path are probably just doing it to get OneHundredPercentCompletion.
** In the hallway on December 3rd, right after [[spoiler: Nanako seemingly dies]], Kanji punches a wall and screams in frustration. But due to the timing of the character animation and the dialogue, he punches the wall first, so it looks more like he's screaming from the pain of punching the wall.
*** Worse, Kanji stays in his wall-punching pose until his next line of dialogue, and a couple of other characters have lines before him. It's probably to prevent him from distracting from other characters' dialogue, but if you keep your eye on him holding that pose for several seconds it goes from "evocative" to "incredibly awkward" very quickly.

to:

** Also in In ''Golden'', the choice to trigger the new [[spoiler:accomplice]] ending comes after a flashback to [[spoiler:the the good times you've had with [[spoiler: Adachi]] in order to make the idea of [[spoiler:betraying your teammates]] more appealing. [[spoiler: Except that [[spoiler:Adachi Adachi doesn't get that many scenes, even with his new Social Link]], Link, so the game is pretty much trying to get you to [[spoiler:team team up with the killer]] killer by reminding you that [[spoiler:you you went grocery shopping with him and invited him for dinner a few times]]. times. Somehow, the choice ends up not being as difficult as the developers intended it to be, so players who head down that path are probably just doing it to get OneHundredPercentCompletion.
OneHundredPercentCompletion.]]
** In the hallway on December 3rd, right after [[spoiler: Nanako seemingly dies]], Kanji punches a wall and screams in frustration. But due to the timing of the character animation and the dialogue, he punches the wall first, so it looks more like he's screaming from the pain of punching the wall.
***
wall. Worse, Kanji stays in his wall-punching pose until his next line of dialogue, and a couple of other characters have lines before him. It's probably to prevent him from distracting from other characters' dialogue, but if you keep your eye on him holding that pose for several seconds it goes from "evocative" to "incredibly awkward" very quickly.



** During a scripted portion of the final battle, [[spoiler:your party members push you out of the way and sacrifice themselves to Izanami's attack]]. It's all very dramatic, except that [[spoiler:you being pushed]] is accompanied by a rather cartoonish and comical [[KungFoley "Punch!" sound effect]]. It's even better if [[spoiler:one of the party members is Kanji, whose method of "pushing" you is literally jumping through the air and ''dropkicking'' you with both feet]].

to:

** During a scripted portion of the final battle, [[spoiler:your your party members push you out of the way [[spoiler: and sacrifice themselves to Izanami's attack]]. It's all very dramatic, except that [[spoiler:you you being pushed]] pushed is accompanied by a rather cartoonish and comical [[KungFoley "Punch!" sound effect]]. It's even better if [[spoiler:one one of the party members is Kanji, whose method of "pushing" you is literally jumping through the air and ''dropkicking'' you with both feet]].feet.



*** Plus Yosuke's HaveIMentionedIAmHeterosexualToday moments, which are actually few and far between, have gotten flanderized by the fandom to the point where ''he'' is the character with the TransparentCloset. His [[HoYay close relationship]] with the protagonist plays a part in it too.

to:

*** Plus ** Yosuke's HaveIMentionedIAmHeterosexualToday moments, which are actually few and far between, have gotten flanderized by the fandom to the point where ''he'' is the character with the TransparentCloset. His [[HoYay close relationship]] with the protagonist plays a part in it too.



* ShipToShipCombat: ''Hooooo boy.'' Yu has camps for ''all four'' of his female allies, with the bigger contenders being Yukiko and [[spoiler:Naoto]], in addition to a large division of shippers pairing him with [[{{HoYay}} Yosuke]]. [[spoiler:Naoto]] is the most controversial for a slew of reasons that can be found all over this page, further compounded by the fact that [[spoiler:Kanji canonically has a crush on her, naturally leading to Kanji/Naoto going up against Yu/Naoto]]. Yu/Rise also has their fair share of shippers, most of them coming off from the manga where they were the OfficialCouple. As for Chie, she and Yu are part of the ThreeAmigos who founded the Investigation Team, although as with Yu/Naoto, Yu/Chie has issues with Yosuke/Chie and Yu/Yosuke. And with ''Golden'' adding Marie, and with Marie being favored by Atlus in general both in the story (she's now DLC for the upcoming sequel to ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' and is bumped up to {{Deuteragonist}} for ''Anime/Persona4GoldenTheAnimation'') and as a LoveInterest (she'll ''always'' kiss Yu and love him, even if you don't pursue her romantically), a whole new can of worms has opened up. It's not helped that Marie is extremely divisive in the West. Granted, the anime and spin-offs [[CuttingOffTheBranches don't make any of the pairings canon]], and are implied only through small bits of dialogue, but even the small moments of ShipTease Yu has with the girls do not help matters.

to:

* ShipToShipCombat: ''Hooooo boy.'' Yu has camps for ''all four'' of his female allies, with the bigger contenders being Yukiko and [[spoiler:Naoto]], Naoto, in addition to a large division of shippers pairing him with [[{{HoYay}} Yosuke]]. [[spoiler:Naoto]] Naoto is the most controversial for a slew of reasons that can be found all over this page, further compounded by the fact that [[spoiler:Kanji Kanji canonically has a crush on her, naturally leading to Kanji/Naoto going up against Yu/Naoto]].Yu/Naoto. Yu/Rise also has their fair share of shippers, most of them coming off from the manga where they were the OfficialCouple. As for Chie, she and Yu are part of the ThreeAmigos who founded the Investigation Team, although as with Yu/Naoto, Yu/Chie has issues with Yosuke/Chie and Yu/Yosuke. And with ''Golden'' adding Marie, and with Marie being favored by Atlus in general both in the story (she's now DLC for the upcoming sequel to ''VideoGame/Persona4Arena'' and is bumped up to {{Deuteragonist}} for ''Anime/Persona4GoldenTheAnimation'') and as a LoveInterest (she'll ''always'' kiss Yu and love him, even if you don't pursue her romantically), a whole new can of worms has opened up. It's not helped that Marie is extremely divisive in the West. Granted, the anime and spin-offs [[CuttingOffTheBranches don't make any of the pairings canon]], and are implied only through small bits of dialogue, but even the small moments of ShipTease Yu has with the girls do not help matters.



** Margaret's Social Link (The Empress) requires you to fuse Personas with specific abilities. Prepare to sink a ''lot'' of spending money into the Compendium, looking up the correct Arcana combinations, praying that the resulting Persona inherits the right moves, etc. After first getting the Personas in question, however, the whole thing can be done in a day on subsequent playthroughs. Averted in ''The Golden'', where [[AntiFrustrationFeature Inherited Skills for fusions are manually selected]].
*** Thankfully, even in the original game, it comes with an inherent AntiFrustrationFeature in the "reshuffle" mechanic; deselecting and then reselecting the same Personas will cause the potential skills of the fusion to be reset, so a player doesn't need to constantly repurchase the base Personas required. Unfortunately, [[GuideDangIt not only is this little fact never mentioned in-game]], one ''still'' has to trust to the RandomNumberGod, and many of the requested moves have low inheritance values (Matador with Mahama is particularly guilty of this).

to:

** Margaret's Social Link (The Empress) requires you to fuse Personas with specific abilities. Prepare to sink a ''lot'' of spending money into the Compendium, looking up the correct Arcana combinations, praying that the resulting Persona inherits the right moves, etc. After first getting the Personas in question, however, the whole thing can be done in a day on subsequent playthroughs. Averted in ''The Golden'', where [[AntiFrustrationFeature Inherited Skills for fusions are manually selected]].
*** Thankfully, even in the original game,
Thankfully it comes with an inherent AntiFrustrationFeature in the "reshuffle" mechanic; deselecting and then reselecting the same Personas will cause the potential skills of the fusion to be reset, so a player doesn't need to constantly repurchase the base Personas required. Unfortunately, [[GuideDangIt not only is this little fact never mentioned in-game]], one ''still'' has to trust to the RandomNumberGod, and many of the requested moves have low inheritance values (Matador with Mahama is particularly guilty of this). Averted in ''The Golden'', where [[AntiFrustrationFeature Inherited Skills for fusions are manually selected]].



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: You'd think Naoki, somebody whose sister was one of the murder victims, would have more importance to the plot than just a Social Link, especially since Yosuke had a crush on his sister.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter:
**
You'd think Naoki, somebody whose sister was one of the murder victims, would have more importance to the plot than just a Social Link, especially since Yosuke had a crush on his sister.



* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: Early in development, '''[[spoiler: Dojima was originally going to have been the killer]]'''. Some people felt like him being the killer makes a lot more sense. He'd have a good motive (maybe he believed that the first victim [[spoiler: potentially killed his wife]]), and some of his more questionable behavior throughout the game (like being quick to [[spoiler: distrust Yu]] was actually him trying to get him out of the way and [[spoiler: leaving Nanako home alone]] because he didn't take [[spoiler: Namatame]] into account), and the player got to know him better than the real killer. Combine that with [[spoiler: Adachi's rather flimsy motive]], it makes you wonder just how late in development the change was made.
** Some felt Nanako [[spoiler: coming back to life]] was a bit of a WriterCopOut. If she [[spoiler: stayed dead]], it would have given more gravity to the scenes when [[spoiler: the Investigation Team confronted Namatame and Adachi]], and it'd drop the [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped harsh, but realistic message that even heroes aren't perfect]].

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
**
Early in development, '''[[spoiler: Dojima was originally going to have been the killer]]'''. Some people felt like him being the killer makes a lot more sense. He'd have a good motive (maybe he believed that the first victim [[spoiler: potentially killed his wife]]), and some of his more questionable behavior throughout the game (like being quick to [[spoiler: distrust Yu]] was actually him trying to get him out of the way and [[spoiler: leaving Nanako home alone]] because he didn't take [[spoiler: Namatame]] into account), and the player got to know him better than the real killer. Combine that with [[spoiler: Adachi's rather flimsy motive]], it makes you wonder just how late in development the change was made.
** Some felt Nanako [[spoiler: coming back to life]] was a bit of a WriterCopOut. If she [[spoiler: stayed dead]], it would have given more gravity to the scenes when [[spoiler: the Investigation Team confronted [[spoiler: Namatame and Adachi]], and it'd drop the [[SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped harsh, but realistic message that even heroes aren't perfect]].



* UnfortunateImplications: The girls during the Amagi Inn incident where Yukiko got the times for the hot springs wrong, resulting in the guys accidentally walking in on the girls bathing, to which the girls respond by inflicting AmusingInjuries.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: UnfortunateImplications:
** [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641809-persona-5/73090275 The game has been accused of treating unattractive people in a negative light]]. As mentioned in AcceptableTargets, all of the Gonks [[EvilMakesYouUgly are depicted as]] [[JerkAss jerk asses]]. With Kashiwagi and Hanako's case, part of the humor with their characters revolves around them being unattractive.
** [[http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641809-persona-5/72205483 The game is also accused of somehow being offensive to both genders]]. The boys on the Investigation Team are sometimes depicted as [[MenArePerverts perverted misogynists]] and would often be on [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale the receiving end of]] AmusingInjuries. On the other hand, as mentioned above, a recurring joke about Hanako and Ms. Kashiwagi is how they're unattractive, the running gag of the girls being [[LethalChef terrible cooks]], and how Chie and Yukiko act disagreeable (for example, [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption them knocking Yu down a cliff during the camping trip, no matter what choice he picked]]) can lead to some uncomfortable, casual sexism.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
** Dojima can come off as this due to his behavior at the end of the game, which doesn't change regardless of whether his social link is completed. When someone [[spoiler: sends a threatening letter to the Dojima residence]], he is rather quick to distrust the Protagonist, so he takes him to the station to interrogate him. Six-year-old Nanako is left home alone after the threatening letter is received, and gets kidnapped, resulting in her ending up in a life-threatening coma.]] Not once is Dojima ever called out for his shortsightedness. Sure, he's devastated, but [[NeverMyFault but he never once thinks that part of the incident may be his fault]].
**
The girls during the Amagi Inn incident where Yukiko got the times for the hot springs wrong, resulting in the guys accidentally walking in on the girls bathing, to which the girls respond by inflicting AmusingInjuries.


Added DiffLines:

** Naoto, it should be noted, does run into this ''especially'' hard, thanks to her Shadow. The intended thrust of her plotline is that tying "gender identity" to her wider sense of self-worth as a detective and person is pointless no matter how you slice it; as she herself says, she can be a woman, and a detective, and there's no true inherent conflict there, and society is wrong to think otherwise. That's all progressive and positive no matter where you are... but to American audiences who are familiar with modern discourse about trans issues Naoto can, thanks to the tack her Shadow takes, come across as a closeted trans-male. The answer is supposed to be that she's ultimately uncomfortable with how she's regarded as a woman, but the presentation can make it very difficult to see that, especially at first.
** Dojima has earned some ire from the Western fanbase for often leaving 6-year-old Nanako home alone, even while a serial killer is on the loose [[spoiler: and after their household receives a threatening letter]]. It's not illegal and not even particularly uncommon for young children to be left home alone in Japan; while the game does criticize Dojima's bad parenting, this aspect was likely not intended to come off as harshly as it did.
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