History YMMV / Pathfinder

2nd Sep '17 6:15:25 AM OluapPlayer
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* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[StopHavingFunGuys all the reasons they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...

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* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder ''Pathfinder'' will bring Dungeons and Dragons ''Dungeons & Dragons'' fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[StopHavingFunGuys all the reasons they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...



*** Or give them the stealth/dexterity to act first. Concentration checks to cast while taking damage is no longer a skill in Pathfinder... while this means that you don't have to spend precious skill to do it, it also means that there's no way to nullify it, or set up enough skill buffs that you'll automatically succeed. A rogue flanking a caster will make casting especially difficult, and fighters actually have a lot of options that make in a nightmare to try to cast against them within 30 feet.

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*** Or give them the stealth/dexterity to act first. Concentration checks to cast while taking damage is no longer a skill in Pathfinder...''Pathfinder''... while this means that you don't have to spend precious skill to do it, it also means that there's no way to nullify it, or set up enough skill buffs that you'll automatically succeed. A rogue flanking a caster will make casting especially difficult, and fighters actually have a lot of options that make in a nightmare to try to cast against them within 30 feet.



*** Some argue that it is no worse than the normal summoner or a CoDzilla, it just interacts with the party in a way that makes the existing flaws obvious. A CoDzilla can outshine the fighter too, but that is really all the Synthesist does, so they can't avoid it. In fact, it's easily possible to claim that the Synthesist is ''weaker'' than a normal summoner, as the Synthesist loses the second set of actions granted by the eidolon and is forced to choose between casting buffs and attacking. Generally, the Synthesist has much better defenses than a normal summoner, but loses out on a great deal of offensive power.

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*** Some argue that it is no worse than the normal summoner or a CoDzilla, [=CoDzilla=], it just interacts with the party in a way that makes the existing flaws obvious. A CoDzilla [=CoDzilla=] can outshine the fighter too, but that is really all the Synthesist does, so they can't avoid it. In fact, it's easily possible to claim that the Synthesist is ''weaker'' than a normal summoner, as the Synthesist loses the second set of actions granted by the eidolon and is forced to choose between casting buffs and attacking. Generally, the Synthesist has much better defenses than a normal summoner, but loses out on a great deal of offensive power.



** The Ultimate Campaign book has a piece of artwork showing a tall male elf laughing hysterically at a halfling attempting to charm his companion with a flower. The elf has since become widely used as a reaction picture (often called "Lelf") due to looking like his sides are splitting in half from laughing.



** The developers sought to do this with some of the classic monsters in the splatbook ''Misfit Monsters Redeemed'', specifically going for some of the most laughed-at monsters from the older editions of D&D, such as the Dire Corby, Wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, and the infamous Flumph (which is now a good-aligned extraplanar messenger warning adventurers about threats from beyond the stars).
** The 3.5 soulknife class was always something people loved in concept, but hated [[TierInducedScrappy in execution]]. Following the new Pathfinder version put out by Dreamscarred Press, the soulknife is now, while not as top-tier as most casters, solidly on par with martial classes like the fighter and barbarian, and has a number of cool and unique tricks to give it its own unique flavor.

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** The developers sought to do this with some of the classic monsters in the splatbook ''Misfit Monsters Redeemed'', specifically going for some of the most laughed-at monsters from the older editions of D&D, ''D&D'', such as the Dire Corby, Wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, and the infamous Flumph (which is now a good-aligned extraplanar messenger warning adventurers about threats from beyond the stars).
** The 3.5 soulknife class was always something people loved in concept, but hated [[TierInducedScrappy in execution]]. Following the new Pathfinder ''Pathfinder'' version put out by Dreamscarred Press, the soulknife is now, while not as top-tier as most casters, solidly on par with martial classes like the fighter and barbarian, and has a number of cool and unique tricks to give it its own unique flavor.



** Combat Expertise, an underwhelming feat that lets you trade attack rolls for an improvement to AC. Its sole purpose beyond that seems to be serving as a wall for feats, being prerequisite to no less than twenty-nine core Pathfinder feats, including all of the "Improved" Combat Maneuver feats (Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple) which remove the ability for enemies to take Attacks of Opportunity for you using these maneuvers. It just seems to be there solely so players can't take these feats at first level.

to:

** Combat Expertise, an underwhelming feat that lets you trade attack rolls for an improvement to AC. Its sole purpose beyond that seems to be serving as a wall for feats, being prerequisite to no less than twenty-nine core Pathfinder ''Pathfinder'' feats, including all of the "Improved" Combat Maneuver feats (Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple) which remove the ability for enemies to take Attacks of Opportunity for you using these maneuvers. It just seems to be there solely so players can't take these feats at first level.



** Golarion Goblins, unlike most versions of D&D, are essentially pyromaniac psycho chibis. Even cuter in the expansion books, where they tend to dress up as other monsters and carry around big d20s.

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** Golarion Goblins, unlike most versions of D&D, ''D&D'', are essentially pyromaniac psycho chibis. Even cuter in the expansion books, where they tend to dress up as other monsters and carry around big d20s.



* WinBackTheCrowd: Partly the intent of the game's entire creation. The creators capitalised on the many D&D fans left in the cold by 4E and made Pathfinder largely in response to the 4E criticisms.

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* WinBackTheCrowd: Partly the intent of the game's entire creation. The creators capitalised on the many D&D ''D&D'' fans left in the cold by 4E and made Pathfinder ''Pathfinder'' largely in response to the 4E criticisms.
25th Aug '17 10:58:15 PM RoninMacbeth
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** [[NeutralEvil Daemons]] ''start off'' past it. [[OmnicidalManiac They only get worse from there]].
21st Aug '17 10:08:53 PM SCPIhpkmn
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* ScrappyMechanic: Burn, the kineticist's CastFromHitPoints mechanic, is this to many players and even kineticist guide writers. The medium's influence mechanic is similarly much-despised, since it rapidly shoots up, can offer very harsh penalties very quickly, and cannot really be reduced until the medium selects a new spirit. And getting five points of influence turns the character into an NPC until the channelling finishes.

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* ScrappyMechanic: ScrappyMechanic:
**
Burn, the kineticist's CastFromHitPoints mechanic, is this to many players and even kineticist guide writers. The medium's influence mechanic is similarly much-despised, since it rapidly shoots up, can offer very harsh penalties very quickly, and cannot really be reduced until the medium selects a new spirit. And getting five points of influence turns the character into an NPC until the channelling finishes.finishes.
** Combat Expertise, an underwhelming feat that lets you trade attack rolls for an improvement to AC. Its sole purpose beyond that seems to be serving as a wall for feats, being prerequisite to no less than twenty-nine core Pathfinder feats, including all of the "Improved" Combat Maneuver feats (Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple) which remove the ability for enemies to take Attacks of Opportunity for you using these maneuvers. It just seems to be there solely so players can't take these feats at first level.
14th Jul '17 1:01:47 AM thisisacat
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*** Some argue that it is no worse than the normal summoner or a CoDzilla, it just interacts with the party in a way that makes the existing flaws obvious. A CoDzilla can outshine the fighter too, but that is really all the Synthesist does, so they can't avoid it.
*** Speaking of Summoners, the Master Summoner Archetype doesn't seem very bad, until you hit the higher levels and he drowns the encounter in entire herds of Augmented Celestial/Fiendish/Flaming/etc... Tyrannosaurus Rexes.

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*** Some argue that it is no worse than the normal summoner or a CoDzilla, it just interacts with the party in a way that makes the existing flaws obvious. A CoDzilla can outshine the fighter too, but that is really all the Synthesist does, so they can't avoid it.
it. In fact, it's easily possible to claim that the Synthesist is ''weaker'' than a normal summoner, as the Synthesist loses the second set of actions granted by the eidolon and is forced to choose between casting buffs and attacking. Generally, the Synthesist has much better defenses than a normal summoner, but loses out on a great deal of offensive power.
*** Speaking of Summoners, Summoners and the power of extra actions, the Master Summoner Archetype doesn't seem very bad, until you hit the higher levels and he drowns the encounter in entire herds of Augmented Celestial/Fiendish/Flaming/etc... Tyrannosaurus Rexes.
31st Mar '17 7:26:44 AM TheDoodAbides
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* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[StopHavingGunGuys they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...

to:

* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[StopHavingGunGuys [[StopHavingFunGuys all the reasons they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...
31st Mar '17 7:25:44 AM TheDoodAbides
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[Stophavingfunguys they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...

to:

* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[Stophavingfunguys [[StopHavingGunGuys they're wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...
31st Mar '17 7:23:36 AM TheDoodAbides
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them they're wrong. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...

to:

* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them [[Stophavingfunguys they're wrong.wrong for liking it]]. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...
31st Mar '17 7:21:43 AM TheDoodAbides
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Added DiffLines:

* FandomRivalry: Mentioning one enjoys Pathfinder will bring Dungeons and Dragons fans out of the woodwork to tell them they're wrong. The resulting InternetBackdraft can get messy...
15th Jan '17 4:57:10 PM emillang1000
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*** Most agree the [[TierInducedScrappy rogue]] needed a bit of a boost and welcome the many changes and advantages that the ''Unchained'' rogue represents, particularly that, unlike the other ''Unchained'' variants, the rogue doesn't have to ''lose'' anything to get them (meaning almost all archetypes for the 'base' Rogue still work fine). But a number of player are still unhappy, feeling that making the rogue too effective in combat waters down the class's skillmonkey feel.

to:

*** Most agree the [[TierInducedScrappy rogue]] needed a bit of a boost and welcome the many changes and advantages that the ''Unchained'' rogue represents, particularly that, unlike the other ''Unchained'' variants, the rogue doesn't have to ''lose'' anything to get them (meaning almost all archetypes for the 'base' Rogue still work fine). But a number of player [[UnpleasableFanbase are still unhappy, feeling that making the rogue too effective in combat waters down the class's skillmonkey feel.feel]].
9th Jan '17 10:59:30 PM troodos
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** ''Curse of the Crimson Throne'': The followers of Zon-Kuthon, God of {{Envy}}, [[TortureTechnician Pain]], [[CastingAShadow Darkness]], and [[DespairEventHorizon Loss]] tend to be a nasty bunch, with a penchant for torture and self-mutilation. Yet not a one of them, including quite possibly Zon-Kuthon himself, has ever come close to the level of atrocity perpetrated by [[DarkMessiah Kazavon]], Zon-Kuthon's one-time [[TheChampion Champion]]. Essentially [[NoHistoricalFiguresWereHarmed Vlad the Impaler]] in the form of a sixty foot Blue Dragon, Kazavon disguised himself as a [[PsychoForHire human mercenary]] and offered to help the nation of Ustalav drive out the invading Orc hordes. Upon his victory, Kazavon set himself up as the dictator of the borderlands area, where he ruled with an iron fist, torturing to death all those who disagreed with him, including many of the soldiers who had served him faithfully up to that point. When his employer tried to rein him in, Kazavon flayed the man alive. He would go on to achieve truly special heights of depravity, holding torture parties, and orgies involving the undead, spreading his influence throughout the entire area, and having entire villages [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice impaled for his entertainment]]. Kazavon was eventually killed by a party of heroes, but the madness didn't stop there. The pure evil of his soul contaminated his skeleton and threatened to resurrect him. The bones were crafted into seven [[ArtifactOfDoom Artifacts Of Doom]] and hidden throughout the country; contact with even one of them is enough to drive the wearer down a path of madness, murder, and ultimate self-destruction. When [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Queen Ileosa]], BigBad of the Adventure Path dons the crown, Kazavon influences her to murder her husband, turn Korvosa into a PoliceState, unleash a plague against the [[KillThePoor city's poorest citizens]], and drain the lives of thousands in an effort to [[ImmortalityImmorality gain eternal youth]] (in reality, the spell will just [[BackFromTheDead resurrect Kazavon]]).

to:

** ''Curse of the Crimson Throne'': The followers of Zon-Kuthon, God of {{Envy}}, [[TortureTechnician Pain]], [[CastingAShadow Darkness]], and [[DespairEventHorizon Loss]] tend to be a nasty bunch, with a penchant for torture and self-mutilation. Yet not a one of them, including quite possibly Zon-Kuthon himself, has ever come close to the level of atrocity perpetrated by [[DarkMessiah Kazavon]], Zon-Kuthon's one-time [[TheChampion Champion]]. Essentially [[NoHistoricalFiguresWereHarmed Vlad the Impaler]] in the form of a sixty foot Blue Dragon, Kazavon disguised himself as a [[PsychoForHire human mercenary]] and offered to help the nation of Ustalav drive out the invading Orc hordes. Upon his victory, Kazavon set himself up as the dictator of the borderlands area, where he ruled with an iron fist, torturing to death all those who disagreed with him, including many of the soldiers who had served him faithfully up to that point. When his employer tried to rein him in, Kazavon flayed the man alive. He would go on to achieve truly special heights of depravity, holding torture parties, and orgies involving the undead, spreading his influence throughout the entire area, and having entire villages [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice impaled for his entertainment]]. Kazavon was eventually killed by a party of heroes, but the madness didn't stop there. The pure evil of his soul contaminated his skeleton and threatened to resurrect him. The bones were crafted into seven [[ArtifactOfDoom Artifacts Of Doom]] and hidden throughout the country; contact with even one of them is enough to drive the wearer down a path of madness, murder, and ultimate self-destruction. When [[GodSaveUsFromTheQueen Queen Ileosa]], BigBad of the Adventure Path dons the crown, Kazavon influences gives her the power to murder her husband, turn Korvosa into a PoliceState, unleash a plague against the [[KillThePoor city's poorest citizens]], and drain the lives of thousands in an effort to [[ImmortalityImmorality gain eternal youth]] (in reality, the spell will just [[BackFromTheDead resurrect Kazavon]]).youth]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Pathfinder