History YMMV / PaperMario

31st Jan '17 9:32:45 PM PrincessGwen
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** ''Color Splash'' as well. Some like the game for improving on the flaws ''Sticker Star'' had and proving that the formula does work. Everyone else just wants the series to return to the same gameplay as the first two games and will point to the flaws that ''Color Splash'' does retain from it's predecessor.

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** ''Color Splash'' as well. Some like the game for improving on the flaws ''Sticker Star'' had and proving that the formula does work. Everyone else just wants the series to return to the same gameplay as the first two games and will point to the flaws that ''Color Splash'' does retain from it's its predecessor.
27th Jan '17 7:11:46 AM mario0987
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* HypeBacklash: Thanks to the BrokenBase and InternetBackdraft that ''Color Splash'' received, ''The Thousand Year Door'' is starting to get this from fans who appreciate ''Color Splash'' for what it is and feel that it is not been given a chance because of ''Sticker Star''.

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* HypeBacklash: Thanks to the BrokenBase and InternetBackdraft that ''Color Splash'' received, ''The Thousand Year Door'' is starting to get this from fans who appreciate ''Color Splash'' for what it is and feel that it is not been given a chance because of ''Sticker Star''.Star'' and a NostalgiaFilter about the first two games.
27th Jan '17 7:10:39 AM mario0987
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* ContestedSequel: ''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different]] and [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]]
%%* With ''Color Splash'', a number of people are willing to admit that it improves on ''Sticker Star'' in a number of ways, such as having less one-note characters (Bowser can actually talk again), more of an actual storyline, a much less obnoxious helper character, and, at the very least, having an improved battle system from that of the previous game. However, it still has many detractors thanks to it still taking a few pages out of ''Sticker Star'''s book, such as still having generic Toads making up 9/10 of the cast, most bosses still requiring certain Thing cards to be defeated (which is alleviated by them giving you hints, but after using the needed Thing most stop putting up a fight), needing tedious backtracking if you lack the needed Thing card for puzzles, the story still not being complex enough and some more. Overall, ''Color Splash'' is largely agreed to be at least a step up from ''Sticker Star'', but still nowhere near the level of the first three games (especially ''The Thousand-Year Door''). Whether it's a good game in its own right or not is [=*ahem*=] ''[[BrokenBase hotly debated]]''.

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* ContestedSequel: ContestedSequel:
**
''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different]] and [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]]
%%* With ** ''Color Splash'', a number of people are willing to admit that it improves Splash'' as well. Some like the game for improving on the flaws ''Sticker Star'' in a number of ways, such as having less one-note characters (Bowser can actually talk again), more of an actual storyline, a much less obnoxious helper character, and, at the very least, having an improved battle system from had and proving that of the previous game. However, it still has many detractors thanks to it still taking a few pages out of ''Sticker Star'''s book, such as still having generic Toads making up 9/10 of formula does work. Everyone else just wants the cast, most bosses still requiring certain Thing cards series to be defeated (which is alleviated by them giving you hints, but after using return to the needed Thing most stop putting up a fight), needing tedious backtracking if you lack same gameplay as the needed Thing card for puzzles, first two games and will point to the story still not being complex enough and some more. Overall, flaws that ''Color Splash'' is largely agreed to be at least a step up does retain from ''Sticker Star'', but still nowhere near the level of the first three games (especially ''The Thousand-Year Door''). Whether it's a good game in its own right or not is [=*ahem*=] ''[[BrokenBase hotly debated]]''.predecessor.



* InternetBackdraft: Before ''Color Splash'' was announced, fans were expecting a new game for the Wii U like the first two after the poorly-received ''Sticker Star''. As it turned out, the new game was following the same formula as ''Sticker Star'' but with a paint gimmick, and on top of that, they previously said that they wanted to make ''Sticker Star'' the series' new standard. After this announcement, all hell broke loose, and later footage didn't help any matters, as it showed that the game was repeating some of ''Sticker Star'''s most glaring problems, like the excessive amount of generic Toads over other species and bosses that are ''ridiculously'' difficult without the correct Thing card but downright trivial with them. Making things even worse, the producer said that they wanted ''Mario & Luigi'' to become the de-facto Mario role-playing game series while ''Paper Mario'' would continue in the ''Sticker Star'' route, which was so reviled that it created a FandomRivalry between ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi'' fans. [[BrokenBase Make of that what you will.]]

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* HypeBacklash: Thanks to the BrokenBase and InternetBackdraft that ''Color Splash'' received, ''The Thousand Year Door'' is starting to get this from fans who appreciate ''Color Splash'' for what it is and feel that it is not been given a chance because of ''Sticker Star''.
* InternetBackdraft: Before ''Color Splash'' was announced, fans were expecting a new game for the Wii U like the first two after the poorly-received ''Sticker Star''. As it turned out, the new game was following the same formula as ''Sticker Star'' but with a paint gimmick, and on top of that, they previously said that they wanted to make ''Sticker Star'' the series' new standard. After this announcement, all hell broke loose, and later footage didn't help any matters, as it showed that the game was repeating some of ''Sticker Star'''s most glaring problems, like the excessive amount of generic Toads over other species and bosses that are ''ridiculously'' difficult without the correct Thing card but downright trivial with them. Making things even worse, the producer said that they wanted ''Mario & Luigi'' to become the de-facto Mario role-playing game series while ''Paper Mario'' would continue in the ''Sticker Star'' route, which was so reviled that it created a FandomRivalry between ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi'' fans. [[BrokenBase Make of that what you will.Which then led to a second backdraft against the first one; fans still can't agree about Color Splash.]]



* SeasonalRot: The series is largely considered to have lost its way after the second game, leaping back and forth from idea to idea but not yet returning to the series' roots. However, many fans say that the moment where the series truly lost its way was after ''Super Paper Mario'', which still had an interesting and complex storyline with memorable characters in spite of its polarizing gameplay, as opposed to the very controversial direction the series has gone with ''Sticker Star''.

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* SeasonalRot: The series is largely considered to have lost its way after the second game, leaping back and forth from idea to idea but not yet returning to the series' roots. However, many fans say that the moment where the series truly lost its way was after ''Super Paper Mario'', which still had an interesting and complex storyline with memorable characters in spite of its polarizing gameplay, as opposed to the very controversial direction the series has gone with ''Sticker Star''. Whether ''Color Splash'' continues the rot or pulls the series out of it is very hotly contested.
18th Jan '17 1:07:03 PM DarkChirano
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** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits]]. In addition, Toads are almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had.[[/labelnote]]

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** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits]]. In addition, Toads are almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had. This isn't helped by producer Kensuke Tanabe thinking Toads are the only usable friendly species, nor the fact the other current producers and directors also believe this to be true.[[/labelnote]]
18th Jan '17 1:03:57 PM DarkChirano
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* DorkAge: It's generally agreed that the subseries started going through one with ''Sticker Star'', which was a heavily controversial game for removing the story, exploration and RPG elements that made previous installments so beloved. ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam'' usually isn't considered here, due to being mostly held aloft by the gameplay and characterization approach of [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi the other Mario RPG series]] while suffering from a few of the same problems as ''Sticker Star'', but ''Color Splash'' gets the short end of the stick for having several similarities to ''Sticker Star''. Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the ''Franchise/MarioAndLuigi'' series, so there are some serious concerns that, in some respects, the dork age will literally ''never'' end. There are a few fans who believe that the dork age began with ''Super Paper Mario'', but [[VindicatedByHistory in hindsight]], it's seen as a far better game that is still quintessentially a Paper Mario game in terms of humor, charm and heart, and mostly only suffers due to [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks its different gameplay]]. However, some fans believe Paper Mario is being brought out of its dork age with ''Color Splash'' thanks to its sense of humor, SceneryPorn and not being as cryptic as ''Sticker Star'', but the other side of the fans still see ''Color Splash'' as a bad game in the franchise mostly because of the gameplay reminiscing the 3DS game and not having a grand story in comparison to ''Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super''.

to:

* DorkAge: It's generally agreed that the subseries started going through one with ''Sticker Star'', which was a heavily controversial game for removing the story, exploration and RPG elements that made previous installments so beloved. ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam'' usually isn't considered here, due to being mostly held aloft by the gameplay and characterization approach of [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi the other Mario RPG series]] while suffering from a few of the same problems as ''Sticker Star'', but ''Color Splash'' gets the short end of the stick for having several similarities to ''Sticker Star''. Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the ''Franchise/MarioAndLuigi'' series, so there are some serious concerns that, as long as the creative team of the eighth gen games stay in some respects, charge, the dork age will literally ''never'' end. There are a few fans who believe that the dork age began with ''Super Paper Mario'', but [[VindicatedByHistory in hindsight]], it's seen as a far better game that is still quintessentially a Paper Mario game in terms of humor, charm and heart, and mostly only suffers due to [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks its different gameplay]]. However, some fans believe Paper Mario is being brought out of its dork age with ''Color Splash'' thanks to its sense of humor, SceneryPorn and not being as cryptic as ''Sticker Star'', but the other side of the fans still see ''Color Splash'' as a bad game in the franchise mostly because of the gameplay reminiscing the 3DS game and not having a grand story in comparison to ''Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super''.
14th Jan '17 8:51:37 PM Crossover-Enthusiast
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* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and (To a lesser extent) ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by certain plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and (To (to a lesser extent) ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by certain plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''.
14th Jan '17 8:51:19 PM Crossover-Enthusiast
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* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by certain plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and (To a lesser extent) ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by certain plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''.
10th Jan '17 1:52:26 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* ContestedSequel: ''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different and]] [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]]

to:

* ContestedSequel: ''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different and]] different]] and [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]]
10th Jan '17 1:50:07 PM MegaMarioMan
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* ContestedSequel: ''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different and]] [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]] ''Sticker Star'', on the other hand, [[{{Sequelitis}} wasn't so lucky.]]

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* ContestedSequel: ''Super Paper Mario''. While most would agree that it's a good game with an excellent storyline, many fans can't accept it mostly because of the [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks unexpectedly different and]] [[ItsEasySoItSucks overly easy]] gameplay, [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame although some would play it only for the story, which is widely seen as the game's main saving grace.]] ''Sticker Star'', on the other hand, [[{{Sequelitis}} wasn't so lucky.]] ]]



* DorkAge: It's generally agreed that the subseries started going through one with ''Sticker Star'', which was a heavily controversial game for removing the story, exploration and RPG elements that made previous installments so beloved. With ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam'' mostly being held aloft by the gameplay and characterization approach of [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi its other constituent series]] while suffering from a few of the same problems as current ''Paper Mario'' games and ''Color Splash'' having several similarities to Sticker Star. Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the ''Franchise/MarioAndLuigi'' series, so there are some serious concerns that, in some respects, the dork age will literally ''never'' end. There are a few fans who believe that the dork age began with ''Super Paper Mario'', but [[VindicatedByHistory in hindsight]], it's seen as a far better game that is still quintessentially a Paper Mario game in terms of humor, charm and heart, and mostly only suffers due to [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks its different gameplay]]. However, some fans believe Paper Mario is being brought out of its dork age with ''Color Splash'' thanks to its sense of humor, SceneryPorn and not being as cryptic as ''Sticker Star'', but the other side of the fans still see ''Color Splash'' as a bad game in the franchise mostly because of the gameplay reminiscing the 3DS game and not having a grand story in comparison to ''Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super''.
* EvenBetterSequel: ''The Thousand-Year Door'' to the first game, thanks to taking most of the things that made the latter great and taking them UpToEleven, resulting in what most fans believe to be the best game in the series, the ''Mario'' [=RPGs=] and even ''one of the best Mario games as a whole.'' Fans understandably miss the formula and desperately want another game like it, but sadly the developers [[MagnumOpusDissonance seem to disagree.]]

to:

* DorkAge: It's generally agreed that the subseries started going through one with ''Sticker Star'', which was a heavily controversial game for removing the story, exploration and RPG elements that made previous installments so beloved. With ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam'' usually isn't considered here, due to being mostly being held aloft by the gameplay and characterization approach of [[VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi its the other constituent Mario RPG series]] while suffering from a few of the same problems as current ''Paper Mario'' games and ''Sticker Star'', but ''Color Splash'' gets the short end of the stick for having several similarities to Sticker Star.''Sticker Star''. Worse still, some interviews have stated that they've handed over the reigns of the "Mario RPG" completely to the ''Franchise/MarioAndLuigi'' series, so there are some serious concerns that, in some respects, the dork age will literally ''never'' end. There are a few fans who believe that the dork age began with ''Super Paper Mario'', but [[VindicatedByHistory in hindsight]], it's seen as a far better game that is still quintessentially a Paper Mario game in terms of humor, charm and heart, and mostly only suffers due to [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks its different gameplay]]. However, some fans believe Paper Mario is being brought out of its dork age with ''Color Splash'' thanks to its sense of humor, SceneryPorn and not being as cryptic as ''Sticker Star'', but the other side of the fans still see ''Color Splash'' as a bad game in the franchise mostly because of the gameplay reminiscing the 3DS game and not having a grand story in comparison to ''Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super''.
* EvenBetterSequel: ''The Thousand-Year Door'' to the first game, thanks to taking most of the things that made the latter great and taking them UpToEleven, resulting in what most fans believe to be the best game in the series, the ''Mario'' [=RPGs=] and even ''one of the best Mario games as a whole.'' Fans understandably miss the formula and desperately want another game like it, but sadly the developers [[MagnumOpusDissonance seem to disagree.]]''



** Similarly, anything that even ''resembles'' some sort of defense to ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' is subject to start a FlameWar. This includes anything related to telling fans to "give the game a chance", calling them [[NostalgiaFilter "nostalgia-biased purists",]] or saying that older fans hate the new games because "they're not ''The Thousand-Year Door''". Given that the first two games are held in high regard (to the point of achieving SacredCow status), and fans often have very good reasons to dislike the newer games, it's understandable that they often become very annoyed whenever someone uses those arguments.
* FandomHeresy: In some circles, it's treated as a serious crime to like ''Sticker Star'' or ''Color Splash'', especially if one compares them favorably to SacredCow ''The Thousand-Year Door'' or to a lesser extent, the original or ''Super Paper Mario''.

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** Similarly, anything that even ''resembles'' some sort of defense to ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' is subject to start a FlameWar. This includes anything related to telling fans to "give the game a chance", calling them [[NostalgiaFilter "nostalgia-biased purists",]] or saying that older fans hate the new games because "they're not ''The Thousand-Year Door''". Given that the first two games are held in high regard (to the point of achieving SacredCow status), and fans often have very good reasons to dislike the newer games, it's understandable that they often become very annoyed whenever someone uses those arguments.
Door''".
* FandomHeresy: In some circles, it's treated as a serious crime to like ''Sticker Star'' or ''Color Splash'', especially if one compares them favorably to SacredCow ''The Thousand-Year Door'' or to a lesser extent, the original or ''Super Paper Mario''.



* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by the plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''. It doesn't help that the developers plan to make it the series' new standard, [[InternetBackdraft much to the ire of the fanbase.]]
* FranchiseOriginalSin: ''Sticker Star'' is disparaged for (among other reasons) making the characters [[OverusedRunningGag never shut up about being paper cutouts]], but the characters and setting played with the paper theme from the beginning--North American ads for the N64 game featured Bowser dangling Peach above a paper shredder, and ''The Thousand Year Door'' even had Mario fold himself like origami. The first two games were considered charming and clever for their use of the paper theme, but ''Sticker Star''[='s=] [[LampshadeHanging explicit comments on it]] went past the point of being irritating.
** ''Sticker Star'' 's lack of an overall plot more complex than Bowser kidnapping Peach was also criticized. This plot showed up in the original ''Paper Mario'' as well but it had a lot better characterization when compared to ''Sticker Star'' which made up for it. Going back to an ExcusePlot after the detailed plots of ''The Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super Paper Mario'' did not help either.
* FridgeLogic: A hilarious (and very fortunate) in-universe example. Right when Mario leaves Lavalava Island, Jr. Troopa shows up, having ''swam all the way there''. He misses Mario and has to swim ''all the way BACK to Toad Town''. When Mario fights Jr. Troopa at Toad Town Harbor, his HP will be halved at the start of the battle. After Mario beats him, Jr. Troopa will realize he could've just flown to Lavalava Island and back since he has wings.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: Due to their highly controversial status and several inconsistencies among other games, most fans would rather pretend that ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' never existed, which is allegedly reinforced by the certain plot points in ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''. It doesn't help that the developers plan to make it the series' new standard, [[InternetBackdraft much to the ire of the fanbase.]]
''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigiPaperJam''.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: FranchiseOriginalSin:
**
''Sticker Star'' is disparaged for (among other reasons) making the characters [[OverusedRunningGag never shut up about being paper cutouts]], but the characters and setting played with the paper theme from the beginning--North American ads for the N64 game featured Bowser dangling Peach above a paper shredder, and ''The Thousand Year Door'' even had Mario fold himself like origami. The first two games were considered charming and clever for their use of the paper theme, but ''Sticker Star''[='s=] [[LampshadeHanging explicit comments on it]] went past the point of being irritating.
** ''Sticker Star'' 's lack of an overall plot more complex than Bowser kidnapping Peach was also criticized. This plot showed up in the original ''Paper Mario'' as well but it had a lot better characterization when compared to ''Sticker Star'' which made up for it. Going back to an ExcusePlot after the detailed plots of ''The Thousand Year Door'' and ''Super Paper Mario'' did not help either.\n* FridgeLogic: A hilarious (and very fortunate) in-universe example. Right when Mario leaves Lavalava Island, Jr. Troopa shows up, having ''swam all the way there''. He misses Mario and has to swim ''all the way BACK to Toad Town''. When Mario fights Jr. Troopa at Toad Town Harbor, his HP will be halved at the start of the battle. After Mario beats him, Jr. Troopa will realize he could've just flown to Lavalava Island and back since he has wings.



* ItsEasySoItSucks: A very common complaint about ''Super Paper Mario'' and ''Color Splash'', mostly because they barely focuse on combat at all and thus nearly all of the enemies and bosses are very simple to defeat, as well as the fact that you have access to very overpowered tactics that take away all of the challenge.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: Probably the biggest point of criticism directed at ''Color Splash'' is the fact that it follows on the same formula as ''Sticker Star'', which is the least liked game in the series. Ironically, this was also Miyamoto's reaction to the original version of ''Sticker Star'', feeling like it was a "3DS version of ''The Thousand-Year Door'', which is what led to the final version and a ''lot'' of [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks controversy]].
* LoveItOrHateIt: To say that fans are [[BrokenBase divided]] over the quality of ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' is one hell of an {{Understatement}}, especially when compared to the earlier, more acclaimed entries.
* MemeticMutation: [[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of the new footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]
** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has now become a DiscreditedMeme due to [[YouKeepSayingThatWord constant misuse]] by [[ComplainingAboutComplaining several fandoms]]. Many defenders of the newer ''Paper Mario'' games [[StrawmanFallacy use this against fans of older games]], obviously [[SquarePegRoundTrope failing to tell the difference]] between this and TaintedByThePreview, but like what's said above, doing this can be a big FandomBerserkButton to older fans, and can even start a FlameWar.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a consumable item-based action-adventure, resulting in a [[LoveItOrHateIt highly]] ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two (although ''Banjo-Kazooie'' fans are getting it in the form of ''VideoGame/YookaLaylee'').[[/labelnote]]
** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As it has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits,]] on top of these being almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', which greatly contrasts with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had, and even then, most Toads had unique designs and names. Of course, this is usually a reason that fans give about why the series is [[SeasonalRot going downhill.]][[/labelnote]]

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* ItsEasySoItSucks: A very common complaint about ''Super Paper Mario'' and ''Color Splash'', mostly because they barely focuse focus on combat at all and thus nearly all of the enemies and bosses are very simple to defeat, as well as the fact that you have access to very overpowered tactics that take away all of the challenge.
* ItsTheSameNowItSucks: ItsTheSameNowItSucks:
**
Probably the biggest point of criticism directed at ''Color Splash'' is the fact that it follows on the same formula as ''Sticker Star'', which is the least liked game in the series. series.
**
Ironically, this was also Miyamoto's reaction to the original version of ''Sticker Star'', feeling like it was a "3DS version of ''The Thousand-Year Door'', which is what led to the final version and a ''lot'' of [[TheyChangedItNowItSucks controversy]].
* LoveItOrHateIt: To say that fans are [[BrokenBase divided]] over the quality of ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'' is one hell of an {{Understatement}}, especially when compared to the earlier, more acclaimed earlier entries.
* MemeticMutation: [[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of the new footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]
** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has now become a DiscreditedMeme due to [[YouKeepSayingThatWord constant misuse]] by [[ComplainingAboutComplaining several fandoms]]. Many defenders of the newer ''Paper Mario'' games [[StrawmanFallacy use this against fans of older games]], obviously [[SquarePegRoundTrope failing to tell the difference]] between this and TaintedByThePreview, but like what's said above, doing this can be a big FandomBerserkButton to older fans, and can even start a FlameWar.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a consumable item-based action-adventure, 2D action-adventure platformer, resulting in a [[LoveItOrHateIt highly]] ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two (although ''Banjo-Kazooie'' fans are getting it in the form of ''VideoGame/YookaLaylee'').two.[[/labelnote]]
** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As it has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits,]] on top of these being outfits]]. In addition, Toads are almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', which greatly contrasts contrasting with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had, and even then, most Toads had unique designs and names. Of course, this is usually a reason that fans give about why the series is [[SeasonalRot going downhill.]][[/labelnote]]had.[[/labelnote]]



* SeasonalRot: The series is largely considered to have lost its way after the second game, leaping back and forth from idea to idea but not yet returning to the series' roots.
** However, many fans say that the moment where the series truly lost its way was after ''Super Paper Mario'', as it still had an interesting and complex storyline with memorable characters in spite of its polarizing gameplay, as opposed to the widely hated direction the series has gone with ''Sticker Star''. It doesn't help that Nintendo wants to replace the original formula with ''Sticker Star'''s, and to say that fans are ''angry'' with that is one hell of an understatement.
* {{Sequelitis}}: A very common reaction when it comes to the later games in the series, with the worst offender being ''Sticker Star'', which is widely seen as the worst installment in the series for a multitude of reasons, like the ExcusePlot (in a series renowned for excellent storytelling), the [[YouAllLookFamiliar total lack of original characters]] and [[ScrappyMechanic its unintuitive, consumable item-based battle system.]] It would be actually shorter to list things that ''are'' reasons to like it, especially when compared to any of the previous games. Not helping any matters is that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are [[MagnumOpusDissonance proud of it]], and want it to become the series' new standard especially since "Mario & Luigi already covered the RPG elements". [[InternetBackdraft The reaction to this was very predictable.]]

to:

* SeasonalRot: The series is largely considered to have lost its way after the second game, leaping back and forth from idea to idea but not yet returning to the series' roots.
**
roots. However, many fans say that the moment where the series truly lost its way was after ''Super Paper Mario'', as it which still had an interesting and complex storyline with memorable characters in spite of its polarizing gameplay, as opposed to the widely hated very controversial direction the series has gone with ''Sticker Star''. It doesn't help that Nintendo wants to replace the original formula with ''Sticker Star'''s, and to say that fans are ''angry'' with that is one hell of an understatement.
Star''.
* {{Sequelitis}}: A very common reaction when it comes to the later games in the series, with the worst offender being ''Sticker Star'', which is widely seen as the worst installment in the series for a multitude of reasons, like the ExcusePlot (in a series renowned for excellent storytelling), the [[YouAllLookFamiliar total lack of original characters]] and [[ScrappyMechanic its unintuitive, consumable item-based battle system.]] It would be actually shorter to list things that ''are'' reasons to like it, especially when compared to any of the previous games. Not helping any matters is that Nintendo and Intelligent Systems are [[MagnumOpusDissonance proud of it]], and want it to become the series' new standard especially since "Mario & Luigi already covered the RPG elements". [[InternetBackdraft The reaction to this was very predictable.]]system]].



* SophomoreSlump: [[InvertedTrope Inverted.]] ''The Thousand-Year Door'' is widely accepted as the best game in the series and is a massive ToughActToFollow to the games that came after it, ''especially Sticker Star''.



* TheScrappy: While Toad and the Toad species as a whole are [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base Breaking Characters]] at worst in most other installments of the ''Mario'' franchise, you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of love for them from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom. The primary reason for their immense hate from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom is because of their perceived over-abundance in ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', at the expense of any other more interesting ''Mario'' characters that could serve as friendly [=NPCs=], as was the case in previous installments. [[note]] It gets to the point that a haunted hotel location in ''Color Splash'' features ghost Toad [=NPCs=] rather than [=NPCs=] of the franchise's signature spooks, the Boos, or even lesser-known Mario ghosts like Peepas.[[/note]] The excessive amount of Toads is often held by the fandom as an example of why the ''Paper Mario'' series is in a DorkAge.

to:

* TheScrappy: While Toad and the Toad species as a whole are [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base Breaking Base-Breaking Characters]] at worst in most other installments of the ''Mario'' franchise, you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of love for them from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom. The primary reason for their immense hate from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom is because of their perceived over-abundance in ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', at the expense of any other more interesting ''Mario'' characters that could serve as friendly [=NPCs=], as was the case in previous installments. [[note]] It [[note]]It gets to the point that a haunted hotel location in ''Color Splash'' features ghost Toad [=NPCs=] rather than [=NPCs=] of the franchise's signature spooks, the Boos, or even lesser-known Mario ghosts like Peepas.[[/note]] The excessive amount of Toads is often held by the fandom as an example of why the ''Paper Mario'' series is in a DorkAge.



** The Dotwood Tree in Super Paper Mario. If you get hit by a Crayzee Dayzee mid-jump (and this is a very jumpcentric level), which you probably will, you'll probably end up falling a good distance and having to do large chunks of the level over again.

to:

** The Dotwood Tree in Super Paper Mario. If you get hit by a Crayzee Dayzee mid-jump (and this is a level that is very jumpcentric level), centered around jumps), which you probably will, you'll probably end up falling a good distance and having to do large chunks of the level over again.



* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: Big time. The [[VideoGame/PaperMario64 first]] [[VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor two]] installments are widely regarded as excellent games (especially the latter), while [[VideoGame/SuperPaperMario the third]] was rather divisive when it came out due to its completely different formula, but became VindicatedByHistory thanks to its excellent storyline and characters and especially because of its ''very'' polarizing [[VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar successor]], which is widely considered the weakest entry in the series and it isn't especially helped by its equally polarizing [[VideoGame/PaperMarioColorSplash successor,]] thanks to being reminiscent of the former in almost every way. It's widely agreed that the games after ''The Thousand-Year Door'' are great examples of what happens when trying to fix what wasn't broken, and most fans desperately want the series to go back to the style of the former games.
* ToughActToFollow: The series greatly suffers of this. Both the first game and ''The Thousand-Year Door'' are highly regarded [=RPGs=], with the latter in particular being declared as the very best of the series. Since then, none of the games have attained the same amount of praise, with ''Super Paper Mario'' being considered a step down in terms of gameplay while still having a highly regarded storyline, and ''Sticker Star'' often being called the worst of the series due to its [[ExcusePlot barebones plot]] and highly unintuitive gameplay on top of ''Color Splash'' following the previous games' steps, although ''Super Paper Mario'' has been VindicatedByHistory. But still, especially given that ''Sticker Star'' was a highly polarizing game and ''Color Splash'' follows the same formula (and on top of this, they plan to make it the new standard), it's safe to say that the series won't get away from ''The Thousand-Year Door'''s shadow anytime soon.
* VindicatedByHistory: ''Super Paper Mario'' got a lot more respect after ''Sticker Star'' was released when people focused on the detailed plot (especially compared to other Mario games) and better gameplay compared to ''Sticker Star''. Unlike the divisive reception it had back when it was released, now it's largely regarded to be on the same league as the first two games, which is certainly saying a lot.
* TheWoobie: Shadow Siren Vivian is often wrongfully and mercilessly disciplined by her sister Beldam. If you feel like treating her right, well, Chapter 4 seems like the right time to start because [[spoiler: Doopliss steals Mario's body and Vivian's sisters leave her alone while they slack off. She will join you after you console her, but eventually she'll find out who you really are and leave. She changes her mind in the end though [[HeelFaceTurn and stays as a permanent party member]].]]

to:

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: Big time. The [[VideoGame/PaperMario64 first]] [[VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor two]] installments are widely regarded as excellent games (especially the latter), while [[VideoGame/SuperPaperMario the third]] was rather divisive when it came out due to its completely different formula, but became VindicatedByHistory thanks to its excellent storyline and characters and especially because of its ''very'' polarizing [[VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar successor]], which is widely considered the weakest entry in the series and it isn't especially helped by its the equally polarizing [[VideoGame/PaperMarioColorSplash successor,]] ''[[VideoGame/PaperMarioColorSplash Color Splash]]'', thanks to being reminiscent of the former in almost every way. It's widely agreed that the games after ''The Thousand-Year Door'' are great examples of what happens when trying to fix what wasn't broken, and most fans desperately want the series to go back to the style of the former games.
many ways.
* ToughActToFollow: The series greatly suffers of this. Both the first game and ''The Thousand-Year Door'' are highly regarded [=RPGs=], with the latter in particular being declared as the very best of the series. Since then, none of the games have attained the same amount of praise, with praise. ''Super Paper Mario'' being is considered a step down in terms of gameplay while but still having has a highly regarded storyline, and storyline. ''Sticker Star'' Star'', however, is often being called the worst of the series due to its [[ExcusePlot barebones plot]] and highly unintuitive gameplay on top of ''Color Splash'' following the previous games' steps, although ''Super Paper Mario'' has been VindicatedByHistory. steps. But still, especially given that ''Sticker Star'' was a highly polarizing game and ''Color Splash'' follows the same formula (and on top of this, they plan (which is intended to make it be the new standard), it's safe to say that the series won't get away from ''The Thousand-Year Door'''s shadow anytime soon.
* VindicatedByHistory: ''Super Paper Mario'' got a lot more respect after ''Sticker Star'' was released when people focused on the detailed plot (especially compared to other Mario games) and better gameplay compared to ''Sticker Star''. Unlike the divisive reception it had back when it was released, now it's largely regarded to be on the same league as the first two games, which is certainly saying a lot.
* TheWoobie: Shadow Siren Vivian is often wrongfully and mercilessly disciplined by her sister Beldam. If you feel like treating her right, well, Chapter 4 seems like the right time to start because [[spoiler: Doopliss steals Mario's body and Vivian's sisters leave her alone while they slack off. She will join you after you console her, but eventually she'll find out who you really are and leave. She changes her mind in the end though [[HeelFaceTurn and stays as a permanent party member]].]]
games.
23rd Dec '16 9:59:32 AM AguFungus
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** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has become HilariousInHindsight for rather obvious reasons. Many defenders of the newer ''Paper Mario'' games [[StrawmanFallacy use this against fans of older games]], obviously [[SquarePegRoundTrope failing to tell the difference]] between this and TaintedByThePreview, but like what's said above, doing this can be a big FandomBerserkButton to older fans, and can even start a FlameWar.[[/labelnote]]

to:

** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has now become HilariousInHindsight for rather obvious reasons.a DiscreditedMeme due to [[YouKeepSayingThatWord constant misuse]] by [[ComplainingAboutComplaining several fandoms]]. Many defenders of the newer ''Paper Mario'' games [[StrawmanFallacy use this against fans of older games]], obviously [[SquarePegRoundTrope failing to tell the difference]] between this and TaintedByThePreview, but like what's said above, doing this can be a big FandomBerserkButton to older fans, and can even start a FlameWar.[[/labelnote]]
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.PaperMario