History YMMV / PaperMario

26th Oct '17 3:06:27 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* TheScrappy: While Toad and the Toad species as a whole are [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base-Breaking Characters]] at worst in most other installments of the ''Mario'' franchise, you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of love for them from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom. The primary reason for their immense hate from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom is because of their perceived over-abundance in ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', at the expense of any other more interesting ''Mario'' characters that could serve as friendly [=NPCs=], as was the case in previous installments. [[note]]It gets to the point that a haunted hotel location in ''Color Splash'' features ghost Toad [=NPCs=] rather than [=NPCs=] of the franchise's signature spooks, the Boos, or even lesser-known Mario ghosts like Peepas.[[/note]] The excessive amount of Toads is often held by the fandom as an example of why the ''Paper Mario'' series is in a DorkAge.
17th Oct '17 11:37:48 AM MegaMarioMan
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** Chapter 2 in ''every'' Paper Mario game can get annoying pretty quickly. In the [[VideoGame/PaperMario64 first]] [[VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor two]] games, it's because of the enemies getting noticeably stronger than they were in the first chapter without Mario having much of an advantage to match; in [[VideoGame/SuperPaperMario the third]], it's because of Merlee's Mansion being tedious to get through (especially 2-3), not to mention having one of the biggest doses of NightmareFuel in all of ''Paper Mario''; in [[VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar the fourth]], it's because the levels tend to be TheMaze, at least one of them has some borderline-GuideDangIt moments, and [[WakeUpCallBoss the boss]] pretty much imprints upon you the game's ([[ScrappyMechanic commonly pointed to as being flawed]]) [[AchillesHeel boss weakness]] system.
%%** The Pirate's Grotto in TTYD.

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** Chapter 2 in ''every'' Paper Mario game can get annoying pretty quickly. In the [[VideoGame/PaperMario64 first]] [[VideoGame/PaperMarioTheThousandYearDoor two]] games, it's because of the enemies getting noticeably stronger than they were in the first chapter without Mario having much of an advantage to match; in [[VideoGame/SuperPaperMario the third]], it's because of Merlee's Mansion being tedious to get through (especially 2-3), not to mention having one of the biggest doses of NightmareFuel in all of ''Paper Mario''; in [[VideoGame/PaperMarioStickerStar the fourth]], it's because the levels tend to be TheMaze, at least one of them has some borderline-GuideDangIt moments, and [[WakeUpCallBoss the boss]] pretty much imprints upon you the game's ([[ScrappyMechanic commonly pointed to as being flawed]]) [[AchillesHeel boss weakness]] system.
%%** The Pirate's Grotto in TTYD.
system. In [[VideoGame/PaperMarioColorSplash the fifth]], there's Mondo Woods, a level which contains huge enemies that can eat chunks of your hp, Marmalade Valley, which ends on a section which can give you a NonStandardGameOver (fortunately there's a Save Block directly before it), and Kiwano Temple, a TempleOfDoom filled with deadly spikes that do 12 damage (when you only have 75 hp) and a timed section at the end that leads to a non-standard game over should you fail it (which is also preceded by a convenient Save Block).
11th Oct '17 9:48:22 AM mario0987
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** The Paper Mario series has never had a lot of characterisation. The first two Paper Mario games had partners with character arcs but they generally ended once they joined Mario or the chapter they joined was finished. After that almost everything they said, if they did say something, was generally the same generic statement filtered through their respective CharacterTics. The NPCs also generally said the same few lines over and over unless they were in the Hub World. The reason ''Sticker Star'' is so lambasted for its characterisation is it removes even this and replaces it with constant paper puns. ''Color Splash'' actually brings the characterisation back to, or at least close to, past levels to the point Huey, the resident Exposition Fairy, might have more characterisation than any of the partners in past games, but the damage was still done by then.

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** The Paper Mario series has never had a lot of characterisation. The first two Paper Mario games had partners with character arcs but they generally ended once they joined Mario or the chapter they joined was finished. After that almost everything they said, if they did say something, was generally the same generic statement filtered through their respective CharacterTics. The NPCs [=NPCs=] also generally said the same few lines over and over unless they were in the Hub World. The reason ''Sticker Star'' is so lambasted for its characterisation is it removes even this and replaces it with constant paper puns. ''Color Splash'' actually brings the characterisation back to, or at least close to, past levels to the point Huey, the resident Exposition Fairy, might have more characterisation than any of the partners in past games, but the damage was still done by then.
11th Oct '17 9:47:56 AM mario0987
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Added DiffLines:

** The Paper Mario series has never had a lot of characterisation. The first two Paper Mario games had partners with character arcs but they generally ended once they joined Mario or the chapter they joined was finished. After that almost everything they said, if they did say something, was generally the same generic statement filtered through their respective CharacterTics. The NPCs also generally said the same few lines over and over unless they were in the Hub World. The reason ''Sticker Star'' is so lambasted for its characterisation is it removes even this and replaces it with constant paper puns. ''Color Splash'' actually brings the characterisation back to, or at least close to, past levels to the point Huey, the resident Exposition Fairy, might have more characterisation than any of the partners in past games, but the damage was still done by then.
22nd Sep '17 8:53:55 PM 64SuperNintendo
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* TheScrappy: While Toad and the Toad species as a whole are [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base-Breaking Characters]] at worst in most other installments of the ''Mario'' franchise, you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of love for them from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom. The primary reason for their immense hate from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom is because of their perceived over-abundance in ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', at the expense of any other more interesting ''Mario'' characters that could serve as friendly [=NPCs=], as was the case in previous installments. [[note]]It gets to the point that a haunted hotel location in ''Color Splash'' features ghost Toad [=NPCs=] rather than [=NPCs=] of the franchise's signature spooks, the Boos, or even lesser-known Mario ghosts like Peepas.[[/note]] The excessive amount of Toads is often held by the fandom as an example of why the ''Paper Mario'' series is in a DorkAge.



* TheScrappy: While Toad and the Toad species as a whole are [[BaseBreakingCharacter Base-Breaking Characters]] at worst in most other installments of the ''Mario'' franchise, you'll be hard pressed to find any sort of love for them from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom. The primary reason for their immense hate from the ''Paper Mario'' fandom is because of their perceived over-abundance in ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', at the expense of any other more interesting ''Mario'' characters that could serve as friendly [=NPCs=], as was the case in previous installments. [[note]]It gets to the point that a haunted hotel location in ''Color Splash'' features ghost Toad [=NPCs=] rather than [=NPCs=] of the franchise's signature spooks, the Boos, or even lesser-known Mario ghosts like Peepas.[[/note]] The excessive amount of Toads is often held by the fandom as an example of why the ''Paper Mario'' series is in a DorkAge.
19th Sep '17 8:16:53 AM mrbits
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** [[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]
** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has now become a DiscreditedMeme due to [[YouKeepSayingThatWord constant misuse]] by [[ComplainingAboutComplaining several fandoms]].[[/labelnote]]
** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a 2D action-adventure platformer, resulting in a highly ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two.[[/labelnote]]
** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits]]. In addition, Toads are almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had.[[/labelnote]]

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** [[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]
** "I love going on message boards and complaining about games I've never played!"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A line said by Francis in ''Super Paper Mario'', which has now become a DiscreditedMeme due to [[YouKeepSayingThatWord constant misuse]] by [[ComplainingAboutComplaining several fandoms]].[[/labelnote]]
** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a 2D action-adventure platformer, resulting in a highly ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two.[[/labelnote]]
** "If (any existing character) appeared in a new ''Paper Mario'' game, it would be a Toad."[[labelnote:Explanation]]As has been explained ''many'' times, the Toad species have become TheScrappy to the ''Paper Mario'' fanbase due to an overabundance of generic Toads with [[ADogNamedDog no unique names]] and [[YouAllLookFamiliar no real differences beyond colours or certain outfits]]. In addition, Toads are almost the ''only'' [=NPCs=] in both ''Sticker Star'' and ''Color Splash'', greatly contrasting with the sheer variety of [=NPCs=] that the previous games had.[[/labelnote]]
[[/labelnote]]
1st Sep '17 1:48:00 PM Kindle4Light
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* FandomBerserkButton: Saying ''anything'' positive about ''Sticker Star'' (and to a lesser extent, ''Color Splash'') aside from the soundtrack or the art style is enough to start a FlameWar in some circles. Scratch that, say that the "new" style of ''Paper Mario'' is better than the "old style". Oh wait, you want to make things ''really'' hot? Then say that ''Sticker Star'' or ''Color Splash'' (or worse, both) is the best while ''The Thousand-Year Door'' is the worst. [[InternetBackdraft We are not responsible if this causes a meltdown in the arctic...]]

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* FandomBerserkButton: FandomBerserkButton:
**
Saying ''anything'' positive about ''Sticker Star'' (and to a lesser extent, ''Color Splash'') aside from the soundtrack or the art style is enough to start a FlameWar in some circles. Scratch that, say that the "new" style of ''Paper Mario'' is better than the "old style". Oh wait, you want to make things ''really'' hot? Then say that ''Sticker Star'' or ''Color Splash'' (or worse, both) is the best while ''The Thousand-Year Door'' is the worst. [[InternetBackdraft We are not responsible if this causes a meltdown in the arctic...]]



* MemeticMutation: [[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]

to:

* MemeticMutation: MemeticMutation:
**
[[{{Pun}} RIP]] ''Paper Mario''[[labelnote:Explanation]]A common reaction after the reveal that ''Color Splash'' was following the same formula as the highly polarizing ''Sticker Star'', which was accentuated further after an infamous interview where the producer said that ''VideoGame/MarioAndLuigi'' was a major reason why the series is straying so much from its roots, on top of footage showing that ''Color Splash'' is repeating several of the most glaring flaws in ''Sticker Star''. That coupled with an ''Iwata Asks'' interview saying that ''Sticker Star'' would become the new standard, and many fans desperately wanting the series to go back to its roots, it's not surprising that comments like this would eventually be made.[[/labelnote]]
25th Aug '17 7:03:29 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a 2D action-adventure platformer, resulting in a [[LoveItOrHateIt highly]] ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two.[[/labelnote]]

to:

** ''Paper Mario: [[VideoGame/BanjoKazooie Nuts & Bolts]]''[[labelnote:Explanation]]Many fans tend to compare the series' run to ''VideoGame/BanjoKazooie'', as the first two games in both are often highly regarded as masterpieces of their respective genres, then having a new game that revamps the whole formula and plays almost nothing like its predecessors, one into a vehicle-constructing sandbox and the other into a 2D action-adventure platformer, resulting in a [[LoveItOrHateIt highly]] highly ContestedSequel. ''Sticker Star'' in particular tends to be compared to ''Nuts & Bolts'' the most, as like the latter, it was highly controversial back when it was released, and still is to this day, with fans clamoring a new game in the vein of the first two.[[/labelnote]]
24th Aug '17 2:39:16 PM PrincessGwen
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* IAmNotShazam: It is not uncommon to see fans call ''Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door'' simply "Paper Mario", since it's the game most current fans think of as the quintessential Paper Mario game. There are some who don't even know that there was a game before ''Thousand Year Door'', leading to some talking about it as was it the first one.

to:

* IAmNotShazam: It is not uncommon to see fans call ''Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door'' simply "Paper Mario", since it's the game most current fans think of as the quintessential Paper Mario game. There are some who don't even know that there was a game before ''Thousand Year Door'', leading to some talking about it as if it was it the first one.
17th Aug '17 3:13:29 PM Sammettik
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* TaintedByThePreview: ''Color Splash'', ''big time''. The moment it was announced that the mechanics would be like Sticker Star's, almost everyone hated it. Even after later trailers revealed that it would at least fix some of the most glaring problems that Sticker Star had (among other things, Paint is much easier to replenish than stickers, because you'll get plenty of it refilled after battles, and fighting enough battles will increase your maximum paint, meaning that battles are not as pointless as before), people are still not giving it the time of day. It doesn't help that the game eventually retained several things that people didn't like about ''Sticker Star'', aside from gameplay issues; most of the [=NPCs=] are still Toads, and the story is yet again [[ExcusePlot flat and basic]] (albeit deeper than that of ''Sticker Star'', which isn't saying a lot) and even borders on IdiotPlot. Time will tell if the game will be VindicatedByHistory like ''Super Paper Mario'', or stay just as reviled as ''Sticker Star'' was.

to:

* TaintedByThePreview: ''Color Splash'', ''big time''. The moment it was announced that the mechanics would be like Sticker Star's, almost everyone hated it. Even after later trailers revealed that it would at least fix some of the most glaring problems that Sticker Star had (among other things, Paint is much easier to replenish than stickers, because you'll get plenty of it refilled after battles, and fighting enough battles will increase your maximum paint, meaning that battles are not as pointless as before), people are still not giving it the time of day. It doesn't help that the game eventually retained several things that people didn't like about ''Sticker Star'', aside from gameplay issues; most of the [=NPCs=] are still Toads, and the story is yet again [[ExcusePlot flat and basic]] (albeit deeper than that of ''Sticker Star'', which isn't saying a lot) and even borders on IdiotPlot. Time will tell if the game will be VindicatedByHistory like ''Super Paper Mario'', or stay just as reviled as ''Sticker Star'' was.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.PaperMario