History YMMV / MsMarvel

17th Jan '18 6:10:54 AM JamesAustin
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* FriendlyFandoms: With fans of Creator/MattFraction's ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} book. At least partially due to Kelly Sue and Fraction being HappilyMarried.

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* FriendlyFandoms: FriendlyFandoms:
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With fans of Creator/MattFraction's ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} book. At least partially due to Kelly Sue and Fraction being HappilyMarried.
17th Jan '18 6:09:36 AM JamesAustin
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* AdaptationDisplacement: You would be hard pressed to find a person on the street who knows who Ms. Marvel is. It would be harder still to find one who knows anything about Marvel's original Captain Marvel. To this day Ms. Marvel is best known to some people as simply being "that blonde chick Rogue stole her cool 90s powers from." This is becoming more pronounced now that Carol Danvers will be the MCU Captain Marvel.

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* AdaptationDisplacement: AdaptationDisplacement:
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You would be hard pressed to find a person on the street who knows who Ms. Marvel is. It would be harder still to find one who knows anything about Marvel's original Captain Marvel.Marvel (as in, Mar-Vell). To this day Ms. Marvel is best known to some people as simply being "that blonde chick Rogue stole her cool 90s powers from.from" or "that blonde chick in the {{Stripperific}} black swimsuit costume." This is becoming more pronounced now that Carol Danvers will be the MCU Captain Marvel.



** Thanks to the popularity of Kamala Khan, Carol has started to become a more well known heroine, but that in turn has led to even more people not knowing who Mar Vell is, or worse seeing him as just a part of Carol's origin story.
** The MCU making Thanos a more well known character has led people to get Jim Starlin's Classic stories, including his run on Captain Mar-Vell. Though they would more likely read it for Thanos rather for Mar-Vell.
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Why did Carol Danvers, an intelligent, hardworking Major in the United States Air Force and casual feminist, run around in such {{Stripperific}} costumes for such a long time? Even after she moved beyond her split personality days? Did she really somehow not know any better, or did she actually like showing off her shapely, well-built body? Did she even, on some level, use her natural sex appeal as a weapon to throw her enemies off in a fight?
** Of course, the Doylist reality is that it was Creator/StanLee's preferred Dave Cockrum design. As Cockrum himself reported:

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** Thanks to the popularity of Kamala Khan, Carol has started to become a more well known heroine, but that in turn has led to even more people not knowing who Mar Vell Mar-Vell is, or worse worse, seeing him as just a part of character that only appears in Carol's origin story.
** The MCU making Thanos a more well known well-known character has led people to get Jim Starlin's Classic stories, including his run on Captain Mar-Vell. Though they would more likely read it for Thanos rather for Mar-Vell.
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Why did Carol Danvers, an intelligent, hardworking Major in the United States Air Force and casual feminist, run around in such {{Stripperific}} costumes for such a long time? Even after she moved beyond her split personality days? Did she really somehow not know any better, or did she actually like showing off her shapely, well-built body? Did she even, on some level, use her natural sex appeal as a weapon to throw her enemies off in a fight?
**
fight? Of course, the Doylist reality is that it was Creator/StanLee's preferred Dave Cockrum design. As Cockrum himself reported:



* BaseBreaker: Her new costume and, especially, "butch" haircut in the new ongoing series is a major source of contention. Everyone agrees that it makes her look less traditionally feminine than her classic long, blond hair. The issue is over whether this is a good thing: Does it makes her a stronger and more distinctive heroine, or just plain ugly?

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* BaseBreaker: BrokenBase: Her new costume and, especially, "butch" haircut in the new ongoing series is a major source of contention. Everyone agrees that it makes her look less traditionally feminine than her classic long, blond hair. The issue is over whether this is a good thing: Does it makes her a stronger and more distinctive heroine, or just plain ugly?



* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: In the aftermath of the Skrull Invasion, everyone looks at Spider-Woman with suspicion. Carol was the only one who approached her and gave her a hug of relief.
** Tries to do the same for the recently returned ComicBook/ScarletWitch taking her back to the Avengers mansion but ComicBook/TheVision meets them at the door and proceeds to give a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to Wanda that drives her off in tears.
** Triples as a CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming and CrowningMomentOfAwesome, but two of the women Carol teamed up with when she found herself stranded in World War II went on to create a comic strip titled "Captain Marvelous."



* FanonDiscontinuity: A lot of fans like to pretend the whole Marcus Immortus thing never happened. [[DorkAge And rightly so.]]

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* FanonDiscontinuity: FanonDiscontinuity:
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A lot of fans like to pretend the whole Marcus Immortus thing never happened. happened, [[DorkAge And and rightly so.]]



* FanPreferredCouple: Thanks to Brian Reed, she was potential love interest for Spider-Man. Since their first date, nothing's come of it outside of them becoming close friends and mild flirting from Spidey, though when Carol herself was taken over by Venom, he hints to Spidey that his crush might not be one sided.

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* FanPreferredCouple: FanPreferredCouple:
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Thanks to Brian Reed, she was a potential love interest for Spider-Man. Since their first date, nothing's come of it outside of them becoming close friends and mild flirting from Spidey, though when Carol herself was taken over by Venom, he hints to Spidey that his crush might not be one sided.



* LesYay: With [[ComicBook/SpiderWoman Jessica Drew]] and Jessica Jones, which is perhaps more impressive for not being Claremont's fault.
** She appears to have a little chemistry with Wanda Maximoff/The Scarlet Witch as well.
* MemeticMutation: Her new Captain Marvel outfit as designed by artist Creator/JamieMcKelvie, has gotten this reaction from fans, with plenty of fan art and cosplays of said costume popping up since being introduced in the Summer of 2012. Encouraged by the comic itself; one of Carol's friends makes her a hat based on the outfit's design.

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* LesYay: HoYay:
**
With [[ComicBook/SpiderWoman Jessica Drew]] and Jessica Jones, which is perhaps more impressive for not being Claremont's fault.
** She appears to have a little chemistry with Wanda Maximoff/The Scarlet Maximoff/Scarlet Witch as well.
* MemeticMutation: MemeticMutation:
**
Her new Captain Marvel outfit as designed by artist Creator/JamieMcKelvie, has gotten this reaction from fans, with plenty of fan art and cosplays of said costume popping up since being introduced in the Summer of 2012. Encouraged by the comic itself; one of Carol's friends makes her a hat based on the outfit's design.



** The fact that her book has been [[{{Retool}} Retooled]] and Relaunched ''four'' times since taking over the mantle of Captain Marvel in 2012. That plus her [[WolverinePublicity increased prominence in marketing]] has led to her current CreatorsPet accusations.

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** The fact that her book has been [[{{Retool}} Retooled]] {{retool}}ed and Relaunched relaunched ''four'' times since taking over the mantle of Captain Marvel in 2012. That plus her [[WolverinePublicity increased prominence in marketing]] has led to her current CreatorsPet accusations.



* StrangledByTheRedString: A rare TropesAreNotBad example! When the KSD ''Captain Marvel'' run was relaunched after a time skip, Carol had, out of nowhere, hooked up with [[ComicBook/WarMachine Rhodey]], despite the two never interacting. However, this has largely been accepted by the fandom, due to the fact the two have nice chemistry and have quite a bit in common (their shared military background, being experienced pilots, and snarky and tough demeanour), and the fact the run avoids making a big deal out of it, with the two only having occasional scenes where they flirt or work together, making it feel far less forced than many SBTRS /examples.

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* StrangledByTheRedString: A rare TropesAreNotBad TropesAreTools example! When the KSD ''Captain Marvel'' run was relaunched after a time skip, Carol had, out of nowhere, hooked up with [[ComicBook/WarMachine Rhodey]], despite the two never interacting. However, this has largely been accepted by the fandom, due to the fact the two have nice chemistry and have quite a bit in common (their shared military background, being experienced pilots, and snarky and tough demeanour), and the fact the run avoids making a big deal out of it, with the two only having occasional scenes where they flirt or work together, making it feel far less forced than many SBTRS /examples.
13th Dec '17 5:00:56 PM Klaudandus
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* HarsherInHindsight: During ''Civil War II'', Carol Danvers' complete disregard for legal precepts of Habeas Corpus, Actus Reus and Mens Rea -- not to mention the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments to the US Constitution -- are hard to swallow given the concern of the erosion of civil rights that have happened since the days of [[TheWarOnTerror 9/11]].
13th Dec '17 8:40:01 AM GrigorII
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* HarsherInHindsight: During ''Civil War II'', Carol Danvers' complete disregard for legal precepts of Habeas Corpus, Actus Reus and Mens Rea -- not to mention the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments to the US Constitution -- are hard to swallow given the concern of the erosion of civil rights following [[TheWarOnTerror 9/11]].
13th Dec '17 7:59:08 AM DarkPhoenix94
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** And now that she's using the name "Captain Marvel", the most frequent response to the question "Who is Captain Marvel?" is still [[ComicBook/{{Shazam}} "Oh yeah, he's the guy in the red suit with the lightning bolt who says "Shazam", right?"]]

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** And now that she's using the name "Captain Marvel", the most frequent response to the question "Who is Captain Marvel?" is still among comic nerds [[ComicBook/{{Shazam}} "Oh yeah, he's the guy in the red suit with the lightning bolt who says "Shazam", right?"]]right?"]] Among average folk, however, she's beginning to be better known as the holder of the name.



** The MCU making Thanos a more well known character has led people to get Jim Starlin's Classic stories, including his run on Captain Mar-Vell. Though they would more likely read It for Thanos rather for Mar-Vell.

to:

** The MCU making Thanos a more well known character has led people to get Jim Starlin's Classic stories, including his run on Captain Mar-Vell. Though they would more likely read It it for Thanos rather for Mar-Vell.



* CreatorsPet: Quite a few people are feeling this way about Carol as Captain Marvel as time goes on, believing Marvel is giving more spotlight and CharacterShilling her far harder than she is organically deserving of, and that she hasn't really done much to make herself stand out as a genuinely compelling character compared to other superheroines who are better liked by the fanbase and sell more comics but don't get pushed nearly as hard by the company. Her numerous instances of KickTheDog since becoming Captain Marvel are starting to push her from a BaseBreakingCharacter into fullblown TheScrappy territory too. Time will tell if the movie is successfully able to salvage her among her hatedom as it did with Iron Man after the first Civil War event.

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* CreatorsPet: Quite a few people are feeling this way about Carol as Captain Marvel as time goes on, believing Marvel is giving more spotlight and CharacterShilling her far harder than she is organically deserving of, and that she hasn't really done much to make herself stand out as a genuinely compelling character compared to other superheroines who are better liked by the fanbase and sell more comics but don't get pushed nearly as hard by the company. Her numerous instances The events of KickTheDog since becoming Captain Marvel are starting to push her from a BaseBreakingCharacter into fullblown TheScrappy territory too.''Civil War II'' didn't help. Time will tell if the movie is successfully able to salvage her among her hatedom as it did with Iron Man after the first Civil War event.



** [[spoiler: Tries to do the same for the recently returned ComicBook/ScarletWitch taking her back to the Avengers mansion but ComicBook/TheVision meets them at the door and proceeds to give a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to Wanda that drives her off in tears.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: Tries to do the same for the recently returned ComicBook/ScarletWitch taking her back to the Avengers mansion but ComicBook/TheVision meets them at the door and proceeds to give a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to Wanda that drives her off in tears.]]



* FanonDiscontinuity: A lot of fans like to pretend the whole Marcus Immortus thing never happened. And rightly so.

to:

* FanonDiscontinuity: A lot of fans like to pretend the whole Marcus Immortus thing never happened. [[DorkAge And rightly so. so.]]
** Equally, people like to ignore her involvement in ''Civil War'', and to a lesser extent, ''Civil War II'', because, well... they were awful.



** Despite the fact that she more commonly works with the Avengers, fans of Carol tend to overlap with ''ComicBook/XMen'' fans and the character is typically more well-associated with them than the Avengers. This is partly because both series were [[MyRealDaddy made great]] by Chris Claremont. Of course, it could also be because a lot of people still think of Carol as "the blonde woman Rogue stole her cool powers from" and there are others who find Carol's "honorary X-Man" status to be rather silly given that she has very little in common with them, forced friendship with Wolverine or not.
* HarsherInHindsight: Carol Danvers' complete disregard for legal precepts of Habeas Corpus, Actus Reus and Mens Rea -- not to mention the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments to the US Constitution -- are hard to swallow given the concern of the erosion of civil rights following [[TheWarOnTerror 9/11]].

to:

** Despite the fact that she more commonly works with the Avengers, fans of Carol tend to overlap with ''ComicBook/XMen'' fans and the character is typically more well-associated with them than the Avengers. This is partly because both series were [[MyRealDaddy made great]] by Chris Claremont. Of course, it could also be because a lot of people still think of Carol as "the blonde woman Rogue stole her cool powers from" and there are others who find Carol's "honorary X-Man" status to be rather silly given that she has very little in common with them, forced friendship with Wolverine or not.
* HarsherInHindsight: During ''Civil War II'', Carol Danvers' complete disregard for legal precepts of Habeas Corpus, Actus Reus and Mens Rea -- not to mention the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments to the US Constitution -- are hard to swallow given the concern of the erosion of civil rights following [[TheWarOnTerror 9/11]].



* MoralEventHorizon: Two with the ''main character'' doing this.
** During one of the side-stories for Marvel's original ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' arc, Carol attacks [[ComicBook/SpiderWoman Julia Carpenter]], and gives the Julia a NoHoldsBarredBeatdown where her daughter can see. For a lot of fans, this pretty much destroyed any possibility of Danvers being seen as a hero.
** In ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'', ComicBook/MsMarvel Carol crosses this line when [[ComicBook/IronMan Tony Stark]] reveals that Ulysses' precognitive powers aren't predicting the actual future but a possible future, has this confirmed by the Beast and she ''still'' opts to continue to believing the predictions and pushing her "Change the Future" stance. The thing that kicks off the fight is when she and S.H.I.E.L.D. arrests a woman with the only evidence of something bad she could have done being Ulysses' vision of her and an empty suitcase. The prior example, from the first ''Civil War'', at least had the excuse that Julia broke the law (however controversial that law was) and endangered the lives of SHIELD agents. Here, Carol's the one breaking laws, and her targets haven't even ''done anything'' yet.

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* MoralEventHorizon: Two with the ''main character'' doing this.
this - both in big crossover events, unsurprisingly.
** During one of the side-stories for Marvel's original ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' arc, Carol attacks [[ComicBook/SpiderWoman Julia Carpenter]], and gives the Julia a NoHoldsBarredBeatdown where her daughter can see. For a lot of fans, this pretty much destroyed any possibility of Danvers being seen as a hero.
hero, even though it was followed by a MyGodWhatHaveIDone.
** In ''ComicBook/CivilWarII'', ComicBook/MsMarvel which mangled various characters nearly as much as the original ''Civil War'' event, she Carol crosses this line when [[ComicBook/IronMan Tony Stark]] reveals that Ulysses' precognitive powers aren't predicting the actual future but a possible future, has this confirmed by the Beast and she ''still'' opts to continue to believing the predictions and pushing her "Change the Future" stance. The thing that kicks off the fight is when she and S.H.I.E.L.D. arrests a woman with the only evidence of something bad she could have done being Ulysses' vision of her and an empty suitcase. The prior example, from the first ''Civil War'', at least had the excuse that Julia broke the law (however controversial that law was) and endangered the lives of SHIELD agents. Here, Carol's the one breaking laws, and her targets haven't even ''done anything'' yet.



* TheWoobie: Carol's had her fair share of Woobie-worthy moments - screwed over by a jerky father, crappy boss, brainwashed and raped repeatedly by a super-villain, lost her powers and was left to drown while in a coma, more problems with powers coming and going over the years, struggled with alcoholism, depression, on again/off again inferiority complex, unfulfilled love life, misguided and ridiculous jokes against her body, may or may not have been forced to float naked in space by the Brood (and was actually experimented upon while naked by the Brood), etc. But she's survived it all and become the new Captain Marvel so she is probably an IronWoobie.

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* TheWoobie: Carol's had her fair share of Woobie-worthy moments - screwed over by a jerky father, crappy boss, brainwashed and raped repeatedly by a super-villain, lost her powers and was left to drown while in a coma, more problems with powers coming and going over the years, struggled with alcoholism, depression, on again/off again inferiority complex, unfulfilled love life, misguided and ridiculous jokes against her body, may or may not have been forced to float naked in space by the Brood (and was actually experimented upon while naked by the Brood), ''repeated'' memory loss etc. But she's survived it all and become the new Captain Marvel so she is probably an IronWoobie.
30th Nov '17 4:07:18 AM CaptainMar-Vell92
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** The MCU making Thanos a more well known character has led people to get Jim Starlin's Classic stories, including his run on Captain Mar-Vell. Though they would more likely read It for Thanos rather for Mar-Vell.
25th Nov '17 1:21:07 AM derpdonkey
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* MemeticLoser[=/=]MemeticPsychopath: Her more dubious actions have resulted in a lot of fanart (like the infamous Illuminated Comics parodies, which she became the breakout star of) and the like portraying her as a bizarre combination of two, basically an incompetent alcoholic screw-up who hates everyone but at the same time desperately craves their admiration when she isn't getting off on jailing or killing people (especially Skrulls) while spouting over-the-top fascistic rhetoric.
17th Nov '17 9:46:36 PM GroLor
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Added DiffLines:

* MemeticLoser[=/=]MemeticPsychopath: Her more dubious actions have resulted in a lot of fanart (like the infamous Illuminated Comics parodies, which she became the breakout star of) and the like portraying her as a bizarre combination of two, basically an incompetent alcoholic screw-up who hates everyone but at the same time desperately craves their admiration when she isn't getting off on jailing or killing people (especially Skrulls) while spouting over-the-top fascistic rhetoric.
29th Jul '17 8:53:27 AM IdumeanPatriot
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* BaseBreaker: Her new costume and, especially, "butch" haircut in the new ongoing series is a major source of contention. Everyone agrees that it makes her look less traditionally feminine than her classic long, blond hair. The issue is over whether this is a good thing: Does it makes her a stronger and more distinctive heroine, or just plain ugly?
25th Apr '17 12:00:49 PM GordyTepig
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** "Yaas, Queen!" It comes from the solicit for ''The Mighty Captain Marvel #1,'' and gained traction because of how TotallyRadical it was. It's usually used as a sarcastic insult for Carol, though.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MsMarvel