History YMMV / Monster

6th Feb '16 12:23:58 PM Freshmeat
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* MagnumOpus: For Charlize Theron.
28th Nov '15 2:40:09 PM LaptopGuy
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Added DiffLines:
* MagnumOpus: For Charlize Theron.
19th Oct '15 12:26:07 AM jarxon6
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Added DiffLines:
** His relationship with Tenma has a number of possibilities. Was he serious about seeing Tenma as a Father figure and genuinely want to make his life better? Or was he just screwing with him? Or was he screwing with him because he thought it would make his life better?
21st Jul '15 7:48:46 PM DoctorCooper
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* JerkassWoobie: Eva.

** JerkassWoobie: Eva.
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** JerkassWoobie: Eva.
16th Jul '15 1:05:11 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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Not YMMV, complaining
* BlackAndWhiteInsanity: This seems to be a big problem in the main plot: [[MagnificentBastard Johan]] wants to corrupt Doctor Tenma by forcing him into murdering him, to save every innocent human he WILL UTTERLY DESTROY should he live to continue his monstrous spree. Johan says that should the Doctor pull the trigger, [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim he would become the very thing he hates most, an abomination like himself]]. Did we miss something? Killing a ruthless psychopath to protect innocents may not be something an AllLovingHero would consider, but this isn't in any way what a CompleteMonster sadistically and remorselessly revels in doing as a routine, nor would it drive anyone into becoming just like the last no matter what. It would be at best the mark of a PragmaticHero, AntiHero or GoodIsNotSoft Hero.
16th Jul '15 1:03:45 PM imadmagician
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added black and white insanity trope
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* BlackAndWhiteInsanity: This seems to be a big problem in the main plot: [[MagnificentBastard Johan]] wants to corrupt Doctor Tenma by forcing him into murdering him, to save every innocent human he WILL UTTERLY DESTROY should he live to continue his monstrous spree. Johan says that should the Doctor pull the trigger, [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim he would become the very thing he hates most, an abomination like himself]]. Did we miss something? Killing a ruthless psychopath to protect innocents may not be something an AllLovingHero would consider, but this isn't in any way what a CompleteMonster sadistically and remorselessly revels in doing as a routine, nor would it drive anyone into becoming just like the last no matter what. It would be at best the mark of a PragmaticHero, AntiHero or GoodIsNotSoft Hero.
18th Jun '15 2:58:48 PM SgtFrog1
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* CompleteMonster: ''Manga/{{Monster}}'' is dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, or if anybody, no matter how heinous, can be redeemed. The series's conclusion is that while anybody can be redeemed, it is the titular character Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him a monster. A {{sadist}}ic [[TheChessmaster chessmaster]] and ManipulativeBastard since he [[EnfanteTerrible learned to walk and talk]], Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, [[CardCarryingVillain as dark as possible]]. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or failing that, force the heroic [[BigGood Dr. Tenma]], and/or his own pacifistic [[CainAndAbel sister]], Nina Foertner, to [[StrikeMeDownWithAllOfYourHatred kill him in cold blood]]. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way he [[WouldHurtAChild convinces children to jump from rooftops]], gets a recovering [[TheAlcoholic alcoholic]] drunk before throwing him off a building, and convinces various {{serial killer}}s to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an {{unperson}}. Numerous {{Freudian Excuse}}s are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.
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* CompleteMonster: ''Manga/{{Monster}}'' is dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, or if anybody, no matter how heinous, can be redeemed. The series's conclusion is that while anybody can be redeemed, it is the titular character Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him a monster. A {{sadist}}ic [[TheChessmaster chessmaster]] and ManipulativeBastard since he [[EnfanteTerrible learned to walk and talk]], Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, [[CardCarryingVillain as dark as possible]]. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or failing that, force the heroic [[BigGood Dr. Tenma]], and/or his own pacifistic [[CainAndAbel sister]], Nina Foertner, to [[StrikeMeDownWithAllOfYourHatred kill him in cold blood]]. In this way, he hopes to establish that even [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim the best people can become just like him.him]]. Along the way he [[WouldHurtAChild convinces children to jump from rooftops]], gets a recovering [[TheAlcoholic alcoholic]] drunk before throwing him off a building, and convinces various {{serial killer}}s to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an {{unperson}}. Numerous {{Freudian Excuse}}s are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.
14th May '15 11:26:08 PM toonyloon
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* CompleteMonster: ''Manga/{{Monster}}'' is dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, or if anybody, no matter how heinous, can be redeemed. The series's conclusion is that while anybody can be redeemed, it is the titular character Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him a monster. A {{sadist}}ic [[TheChessmaster chessmaster]] and ManipulativeBastard}} since he [[EnfanteTerrible learned to walk and talk]], Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, [[CardCarryingVillain as dark as possible]]. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or failing that, force the heroic [[BigGood Dr. Tenma]], and/or his own pacifistic [[CainAndAbel sister]], Nina Foertner, to [[StrikeMeDownWithAllOfYourHatred kill him in cold blood]]. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way he [[WouldHurtAChild convinces children to jump from rooftops]], gets a recovering [[TheAlcoholic alcoholic]] drunk before throwing him off a building, and convinces various {{serial killer}}s to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an {{unperson}}. Numerous {{Freudian Excuse}}s are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.
to:
* CompleteMonster: ''Manga/{{Monster}}'' is dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, or if anybody, no matter how heinous, can be redeemed. The series's conclusion is that while anybody can be redeemed, it is the titular character Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him a monster. A {{sadist}}ic [[TheChessmaster chessmaster]] and ManipulativeBastard}} ManipulativeBastard since he [[EnfanteTerrible learned to walk and talk]], Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, [[CardCarryingVillain as dark as possible]]. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or failing that, force the heroic [[BigGood Dr. Tenma]], and/or his own pacifistic [[CainAndAbel sister]], Nina Foertner, to [[StrikeMeDownWithAllOfYourHatred kill him in cold blood]]. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way he [[WouldHurtAChild convinces children to jump from rooftops]], gets a recovering [[TheAlcoholic alcoholic]] drunk before throwing him off a building, and convinces various {{serial killer}}s to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an {{unperson}}. Numerous {{Freudian Excuse}}s are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.
7th May '15 2:09:07 PM SinisterHoodedFigure2
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Minor typo error. Fixing that.
* VillainSue: A downplayed yet played with example in regards to Johan Liebert. The action that really pushes the suspension of disbelief is Johan’s poison candies, who smuggled them covertly at the age of five, secretly murdering the directors, AFTER he is recovering from his head injury. However, his other seemingly unbelievable acts, such as learning many foreign languages, researching his targets, managing a network of murderers in secret, and his charisma, might be justified by Kinderheim 511’s education, whose purpose is to turn youths into super soldiers. And with the case of Johan, [[GoneHorriblyRight they succeeded far too well.]] Johan, the embodiment of DissonantSerenity himself admits, that Kinderheim is a hellish place. In a world of a cast of snowflakes, Johan also fits the nearly angelically beautiful bishonen villain sue look, though it could be justified by genetics of being the twin sister of Anna. TropesAreNotBad, however, as this actually enhances his appearance as a terrifying and unnatural presence, and the in-universe fear of him seems plausible to the other characters (and readers). It is a downplayed example in that Johan does suffer a lot of setbacks, and ultimately [[spoiler: failed to tempt either Tenma or Nina into killing Johan]]. His defeat may seem like an asspull cop out, but is really more of a HoistByHisOwnPetard, as the kid he threatens to kill in the end is the [[spoiler: son of the drunkard who shoots Johan in the head, right before Johan could shoot the kid.]]
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* VillainSue: A downplayed yet played with example in regards to Johan Liebert. The action that really pushes the suspension of disbelief is Johan’s poison candies, who smuggled them covertly at the age of five, secretly murdering the directors, AFTER he is recovering from his head injury. However, his other seemingly unbelievable acts, such as learning many foreign languages, researching his targets, managing a network of murderers in secret, and his charisma, might be justified by Kinderheim 511’s education, whose purpose is to turn youths into super soldiers. And with the case of Johan, [[GoneHorriblyRight they succeeded far too well.]] Johan, the embodiment of DissonantSerenity himself admits, that Kinderheim is a hellish place. In a world of a cast of snowflakes, Johan also fits the nearly angelically beautiful bishonen villain sue look, though it could be justified by genetics of being the twin sister brother of Anna. TropesAreNotBad, however, as this actually enhances his appearance as a terrifying and unnatural presence, and the in-universe fear of him seems plausible to the other characters (and readers). It is a downplayed example in that Johan does suffer a lot of setbacks, and ultimately [[spoiler: failed to tempt either Tenma or Nina into killing Johan]]. His defeat may seem like an asspull cop out, but is really more of a HoistByHisOwnPetard, as the kid he threatens to kill in the end is the [[spoiler: son of the drunkard who shoots Johan in the head, right before Johan could shoot the kid.]]
26th Apr '15 4:13:32 PM SinisterHoodedFigure2
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The second villain sue example provides no context at all as to WHY Johan is a villain sue. As for the comment of “Johan did it” being a meme, nope. I have searched for that phrase, it never came up. That said, I am not going to delete this example, due to the possibility of someone else claiming Johan is a villain sue come up (Yet Madara isn’t one apparently…. Wtf). This is one of the very few villain sue examples that prove that it is not a bad trope, that it is downplayed, played with, and justified. This edit will explain why he may come off as that way.
* VillainSue: Johan. Memetically, "Johan did it" is synonymous with "A wizard did it" since he just happens to do unbelievable things seemingly without effort.
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* VillainSue: Johan. Memetically, "Johan did it" is synonymous A downplayed yet played with "A wizard did it" since example in regards to Johan Liebert. The action that really pushes the suspension of disbelief is Johan’s poison candies, who smuggled them covertly at the age of five, secretly murdering the directors, AFTER he just happens to do is recovering from his head injury. However, his other seemingly unbelievable things seemingly without effort.acts, such as learning many foreign languages, researching his targets, managing a network of murderers in secret, and his charisma, might be justified by Kinderheim 511’s education, whose purpose is to turn youths into super soldiers. And with the case of Johan, [[GoneHorriblyRight they succeeded far too well.]] Johan, the embodiment of DissonantSerenity himself admits, that Kinderheim is a hellish place. In a world of a cast of snowflakes, Johan also fits the nearly angelically beautiful bishonen villain sue look, though it could be justified by genetics of being the twin sister of Anna. TropesAreNotBad, however, as this actually enhances his appearance as a terrifying and unnatural presence, and the in-universe fear of him seems plausible to the other characters (and readers). It is a downplayed example in that Johan does suffer a lot of setbacks, and ultimately [[spoiler: failed to tempt either Tenma or Nina into killing Johan]]. His defeat may seem like an asspull cop out, but is really more of a HoistByHisOwnPetard, as the kid he threatens to kill in the end is the [[spoiler: son of the drunkard who shoots Johan in the head, right before Johan could shoot the kid.]]
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